I have a couple of confessions to make. I like apple pie more than watermelon, and I thought the Captain and Tennille were better than Peaches & Herb. OK so there, I said it. But please stay with me, I am trying to make a point here. My taste in music and food is diverse and varied. And even though I am as black as they come, I happen to like some of the same things that my melanin challenged friends do. But that's just me. There are lots of black folks out here who probably can't stand apple pie, and who probably keep "Reunited" in steady rotation on their ipods. So even though we all might look alike, (at least we do to FOX NEWS) deep down we are all different. My point is this:
It must be really hard to figure out how to please us black folks, and what we really want. We are, after all, individual human beings. Our individual needs are just as diverse as all the other races. But there are things that I am sure most black people can agree on, and that most black people can unify around- at least I think there is, cause honestly, lately I am not so sure- And that is what we all want; to get the f**k out of the barrel!
I have been thinking about this for the past couple of days. Partly due to my post about the recent bullshit that I read about over at Kos, and partly because of the responses that I have been getting from my white liberal friends about it. I mean I basically called out white liberals to recognize; and to get real about racism and the different challenges we face in this country. But it must be hard on them to really get a grip on this race thing, because there is no one black person speaking for all of us. One poster to this site (I think his name was "reasic" wanted to know what the democratic party can do to better reach out to blacks. I believed he was truly concerned and I attempted to give him some answers primarily about issues that I am oncerned with.
But while doing some blog hopping recently, and I stumbled into the what seemed to be some polemic wranglings between one of my brothers in the AfroSpear circle, free slave, and another brother named Micheal Fisher. (More about the names in a minute) The shit seemed so petty and counterproductive that it left me wondering; whats the point? What's the use of calling out white folks and telling them to get their shit together if we can't get our own house (or should I say barrel) in order?
I hate to jump into the middle of this particular clash, because these two men are both grown and intellectually sound enough to fight their own battles. But I am firmly in the AfroSpear, and I am committed to that movement. I like Max Julian (The Free Slave) and I believe that he is committed to the struggle as well. The other brother, unfortunately, I don't know too much about. I do know that he was pissed at the "Spear" over a perceived slight of a sister over there, and he has been demanding an apology from some of it's members ever since. I read his site, and besides the dude who commented on his post and seems to be the Flav to his Chuck D (his own personal hype man) it seems cool enough. The guy has also gone after my homey, Asa on occasion. (I think he called him a religious fascist or some shit like that), but hey, no harm no foul, Asa seems to have moved on. Now as I said, this is not my fight, so I will try and stay out of it. Although I will say this to the brother, who seems to have issues with people who use avatars and not their real names. I choose to use an avatar on this blog because that is what 90% of bloggers do. Please believe that it would be very easy for someone to utilize google and get my real name if that's so important to them. But that's not what this blogging thing is about with me. This is about finding an avatar that I think represents a manifestation of my beliefs and sticking to a theme for my site so that individuals who come to it will know just what to expect. I have some opinions about people who use their real names on their site as well ,(LaShawn) but I realize that I would be just as guilty of what I am accusing the brother of doing if I succumbed to those thoughts.
But I seriously digress. Back to my issue. So this saddens me to see that the old crabs in a barrel adage just might hold true, even in our little part of the world known as the blackosphere. Why can't we work together and put our differences aside to achieve common goals? Why do we have "black on black" crime even on the f*****g Internet? Why do we have to challenge each other all the f*****g time? Is it that we want to prove that we are intellectually superior? Or that our dick is bigger than the next guys?...(good luck) Sorry, I won't engage. I am too busy battling whitey, this corrupt ass administration, house Negroes, FOX NOISE, and our f****d up black leadership. The last thing I need to be worrying about are other so called enlightened ass Negroes, who are supposed to be holding it down and helping to unify black folks around common goals, threatening to take their ball and go home.
So my question is this: If whitey suddenly found the "good witch", decided to give up some of his power and give in to our demands; just what the f**k would we do ?
Exhale
ReplyDeleteSince you brought it up, don't bloggers know that bloggers can be fired for just having a blog. I can give my time and my voice to a cause, but I admit I can't give up my livelihood.
Your Field Excellency,
ReplyDeletei am honored and priveledged to post on your bog. I most definately agree with you that as African Americans we must get ourselves out of the barrel and not count on the white man. We shouldnt accept anything from the white man and we should reject affirmative action. A fellow black peer I know stated brown v bd of education was the worst decision in american legal history. it put our people back 50 years. our sterotypes come from accepting free hand outs such as welfare, committing the majority of crimes, and not taking care of our own children. we my brother must strive to do better. instead of listening to rev jackson and sharpton, we must follow the lead of brother cosby. we are committing genocide on our own people much worse than the white massa. we may benefit from his whip to get us back into line. our people need a leader who is above the use of propaganda to gain personally. My field negro u should take control of our people. I am sickened to see the naacp which championed civil rights is now defending Rep Jefferson. He is a criminal. Field I have to go but I would like to say once again its been an honor posting on your blog. I wish all your white friends knew of this blog.
field - it would be nice for us to pull a leg out of the barrel and reach back to bring someone(s) with us. But, getting out the barrel should be paramount!
ReplyDeletei truly enjoy the vibe of your blog. I'm cool with the avatar and the field vs house flava. of course both of our parents fixated on the same IRL name ... but, methiks that they understand why we choose avatars for our blogs!
peace, Villager
See, I'm just the opposite. I hate apple pie, but I love watermelon. And The Captain and Tennille make me want to puke.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we have more in common than we think. Or does that mean we have less in common?
Personally, I think we have far more in common. There are many white people who are just as fed up. Who are just as pissed off and struggling every day to get by. And they have no idea what to do either.
A lot of the problems you describe are human problems. "Liberals" argue with each other all the time, and lose focus on the "common goal". Hell, I've had more "Liberals" delete my comments than "Cons". They don't like people disagreeing with them, they want to be right, they want to have the "bigger dick".
If you took out the word "black" in your post and replaced it with "white" it would make just as much sense, and have the same truth.
Maybe we expect too much from each other. I don't mean that cynically, I mean realistically.
Sartre wrote a play called "No Exit". The basic premise is that other people are "Hell". They never do, say, think what we want them to do, say and think. Instead of working with what we have, we always want more.
There are a lot of people essentially on the same page, and that's what we have to work. I can never know what it means to be black. There's nothing I can do about that, but as I said in another thread I do know what it means to suffer. In the end, pain is pain it doesn't matter how or from where it came.
Reasic was definitely sincere. I "know" him within the "blogosphere". He came here through a link to your "Cossacks and Black People" post on my blog.
I thought what you said was important, and that white people needed to hear it. I've wanted to write something similar for a while, but because I'm "white" I didn't think people would take me seriously.
I truly appreciate your bluntness, in part because I'm blunt as well, but also because I'm sick of people beating around the proverbial bush. Just fucking say it, let's try to deal with it and move on with our lives.
I've had my fill with "Whitey" as well. He doesn't like me either.
I just reread my first comment,not sure it made sense. I was speaking about using an avatar and pseudonym. For some it is necessary to remain anonymous.
ReplyDeleteThaks for the clarification hathor, for a moment there I thought there was some new "big brother shit out there that I wasn't aware of:)
ReplyDeletefairlane, thanks for your honesty. You will find that we are all about that on this site. The white folks who post here are, IMHO, trail blazers in their own right. For them to have even found this blog, and then to keep coming back, says to me that they get it.
Thanks "Villager", I co-sign with your observations 100%
Peace.
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ReplyDeleteField,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, thank you for putting it out there - that Blacks are not a monolithic group and we should not be approached as such. White rebellion always occurs when it's done to them, so we should react in similar fashion.
My father taught me about crabs in a barrel when I was four or five years old. What he was trying to say is that in every group, you're going to have haters, and either you can get down in the muck with them, or keep pulling yourself up out of it, and take some righteous, deserving people with you.
For us Black Bloggers, the blogsphere shouldn't be about competition; it should be about finding common ground on the issues that we agree affect all of us as a people and as a Nation, and try to find workable solutions regarding that. What we must do is stop waiting for the second coming of Martin, Malcolm and Medgar, and find ways to save our damned selves, because leadership such as has been demonstrated in the Congressional Black Caucus, is not going to get the job done.
Especially since they have demonstrated that they can be so easily bought, and so cheaply, too.
I believe in discussion of the issues, and respect for differences in opinion. However, some posters that have come from way outfield, take the view point of what we decry as "House Negroes" and with good reason, because these individuals demonstrate a willful disdain for our history and what our ancestors suffered in order to hold on to their dignity and their honor - values that money cannot buy.
I have friends who are Republican and Libertarian. When they present their beliefs in a rational manner, I am willing to listen, and sometimes, they actually make sense. The difference comes in when you point out that Clinton was impeached for a blow job, and Bush has violated the Constitution too many times to count. When you point out chapter and verse how Bush has violated the Constitution, they always come back with Clinton's indiscretions, which, IMO, didn't lead to starting wars, bankrupting the economy, spying on each other here at home.
That's where my problem lies. Discussions like the judicial system in this country and it's disproportionate sentencing of our Black kids; economic justice, the environment, the ecology, education; all things which we are concerned about for the coming generation, are necessary for our survival, but we need to identify who has the "fly in the buttermilk" mentality and first, try to educate them, and if not successful, kick them out and isolate them.
The wonderful thing about the blogsphere is that there's room at the table for everyone's valid point of view; and I say VALID, because some folks are just batshit crazy and need to step away from the keyboard very slowly.
When we get that mote out of our own eyes, we can see clearly the faults of others, and operate in like fashion.
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ReplyDeleteFN: Sorry about the other posts in your comment section...
ReplyDeleteI want all things to be equal. I want the constitution to be changed and Black people are afforded the same rights and privileges as Whites. Right now, this society has two separate but unequal societies.
This BS about welfare and Blacks doing this to themselves is just that BS. I'm not doing predatory lending to myself, nor am I bombarding our children with negative music and videos. Nor am I providing substandard education in the Black community. When King and others decided we needed to integrate, all of our resources fled the community. White people didn’t integrate with us, therefore, the assimilation was based upon the kindness of people who do not have a history of being kind and fair to us. Since we did begged to be integrated into this society, we should have been accorded the same rights and privileges as anyone else. If White people don't want us to be equal in every aspect, then the only thing I want is to be left alone. I don't want them coming into my community killing and/or jailing my children, my brothers, or my sister. We need to step back and say adios amigos if they are unwilling to work with us. We definitely need to take control of our community. That means our music, our education, our economics, and our families. We deserve better than what is happening. The things that are happening to us are not happening because we are these horrible people like some of the commenter’s are trying to suggests.
The Democratic Party has already shown that they are unwilling to work with us, so, this exercise seems futile to me. When I read the question, I thought - was this person for real? Doesn't he know the struggle that we had over the history of living in this country? And then I thought, maybe he is a foreigner and is unaware of the struggles. He doesn’t know that the Democrats are playing this little cat and mouse game with us, where they give us a little and then take it back. When Hoover made the New Deal and gave affirmative action to White people, we were not included. Maybe he is unaware of all of this and is genuinely concerned about the plight of Black people. If White people can get 99% of the affirmative action’s monies/programs, what is wrong with the government assuring that we are included?
I suspect, White people don't want things equal, and they don't want to leave us alone either. If we pulled out, they would lose jobs in their welfare system. They would lose jobs in their criminal justice system, that means, they would lose lawyers, judges, police officer, prison guards. They would lose money from illegal guns and drug sells. So you see, they have a vested interest in keeping negative influences alive in our community. We will never get ahead in this society because they have created a vibrant economy out of maintaining a permanent underclass.
BTW - I use my own name, but this is my personal choice. Often, it does make me watch what I say. I would say 90% of the time, I don't complete my full thoughts on any subject as a direct result.
I pretty much agree with christian progressive liberal, so I won't go on and on. I will comment on something I got from his comment, and that's the fact that some divsions just can't be bridged. When you know someone is acting out of bad faith, there's not much that can be done.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to these internet disputes that arise between two people or factions who are both acting in good faith, I think the best thing to do is to more or less give in if the dispute is a petty one. Either agree to disagree, and if you can't do that...give in. There are too many important things to do to let yourself get hung up.
No, we are not monolithic, but we do have a general consensus. Remember that.
Feid I actually purchased the Harriet Jacobs narrative I sure wish her descendants could have gotten royalties from my purchase.
ReplyDeleteYou wanna see crabs in a barrel--read feminist blog fights.
ReplyDeleteBlack bloggers and anti-racism bloggers pale (ironic word there) in comparison.
Not that there are not fights, but having the femoshpere as a comparitive group gives me a different perspective.
And thanks for the link on the sidebar...I keep seeing links from your site, and I didn't realize where they were coming from until I was looking for the field negro of the day.
Cynthia,
ReplyDeleteI think many of your comments are symptomatic of what is wrong with both sides in this debate; Lack of interest in understanding the "other side".
When you say something like this,
"I suspect, White people don't want things equal."
or this
"They would lose jobs in their criminal justice system, that means, they would lose lawyers, judges, police officer, prison guards. They would lose money from illegal guns and drug sells. So you see, they have a vested interest in keeping negative influences alive in our community."
Not only are these statements un-helpful to the cause you claim to support, they are offensive.
I spent 6 years of my life working with kids, specificaly poor kids (Including 2 years with gang members) as a counselor and case manager. I saw people from all races struggling, fighting, dying, and it pisses me off when I hear people white, black or whatever act like they are the only ones who have it hard. Bullshit!
There are millions of whites living with the same kind of poverty, discrimination (Classism), poor education, systemic neglect, hopelessness etc. .
If you want people to listen that means sometimes you also have to be quiet and listen yourself. How do you think white people take comments such as the ones you made?
"Let's see, I want to help, I'd like to make a difference. I want to reach out and try to understand, but I'm being told I don't really care, and that I have no idea what suffering is. Why should I make an effort then if I'm going to be condemned from the get go?"
White people are not going to save you, no one is going to save you. You have to save yourself in this world, and that's a fact ALL races face.
It's not like "White People" have some meaningful grasp on life. Look around.
Racism, classism, sexism etc are reasons, they are not excuses. Malcolm, Martin, Gandhi, Angela Davis, Crazy Horse and many other men and women I admire in American History said, "Fuck being a victim. I need to do something." I admire that strength a great deal, and do my best to exemplify it within my own life.
I'll be damned if someone is going to hold me back, and I wish more people felt that way.
Field,
ReplyDeleteThis question may require me to wear the duncecap, but exactly what are our demands?
Fairlane: My point was that the problems we are facing will not be solved by Whites. If they were, then all things would be fair.
ReplyDeleteHow can you tell me that I don't understand the other side of the debate? What is there to understand? Before slavery, Black people owned 1/2 of 1% of the wealth in this country and today; Black people own 1/2 of 1% of the wealth in this country. Please tell me what is there for me to understand about how Blacks are being treated? How can you deny, that Black people are being preyed on and then we’re told that we need to understand the other side of the debate? This is absurd to say the least.
Fairlane, if you are white, you are out of line.
ReplyDelete"Fairlane: My point was that the problems we are facing will not be solved by Whites. If they were, then all things would be fair."
ReplyDeleteThat's a great statement Cynthia, and i agree with you. But let's not disregard what fairlane is saying.-we need to hear from an honest white perspective-He sees the problems in America as one of class and not race per se. And he thinks the current civil rights struggle is played more to victimology than doing for self. fairlane am I right? If I am not, tell me so. But I get that allot from well meaning people in the majority population, and sadly, many blacks as well.
But it's not playing to victimology to want people in the majority to recognize that nothing has really changed since the early days of Jim Crow in this country. And to get real and honest in this debate about economic and social inclusion. Which is why I disagree with e.k. (kitty) on this one. I don't think fairlane is out of line.I welcome his input and the dialogue. By all means let's talk! Tell me how you feel, and what you think should really happen in this country.
metricpenny, our demands are to be given an equal shot at the "american pie". And I am not just talking laws that are put in place to say you can't discriminate against a certain group of people.
It's like this: if youi have a 100 yard race, and some people started at the fifty yard line, they have an advantage. You just can't give the ones who have to run the full hundred yards brand new track shoes and a great trainer and say; "go get em". You have to start them from the fifty yard line too.
So to answer your question; our demands will be met when we are put at the fifty yard line like every body else ;)
Wow, Field. More and more I'm grateful that I found your blog. Great post. My disjointed response follows.
ReplyDeleteFairlane isn't out of line. He has an opinion, some I agree with, and some I find really annoying. But I have spent time on white blogs and told that I am not only out of line but a racist. I have a real hair up my butt about anyone getting dumped on because of who they are. When I got old enough to figure things out after being treated like garbage in my mostly white neighborhoods as a youth, I decided I was not going to treat people in a way that would offend me if I was treated that way.
To answer Field's question, what would we do? We'd go shopping. It’s the apathetic, American way. Black people in all classes, (because can we get over this idea that all black people are poor/illiterate/in jail/on probation/on parole/ain't got no papa/ain't got no mama because it is a big fat lie) are as apathetic as mainstream America. Sad but true. It's essentially human nature not to give a damn about something that doesn't affect you personally. If that wasn't true, there would be a national movement by black Americans to rebuild New Orleans and insure that blacks are not shut out of jobs in the rebuilding and not shut out of living there. And equally important, to protect a city that is a cultural icon for black America. But you can' do that from a golf course, or in front of your 48" TV, or in your favorite sports bar, or from the treadmill in your gym, or hanging on the corner waiting to sell some more death to your people. We are asking black people to be different from the rest of the human race and I don't know if that's going to happen.
Fairlane is right about one thing, there are poor folks in every race, every culture in this country. Some are over represented in poverty but it is a diverse group. As threatened as whites are by poor people joining forces, so are a lot of black people. Think of all the useless job training programs and community groups that would go out of business if there was no far reaching poverty. It would also cause a lot of people from all backgrounds to shift their thinking and stereotypes about things and people. Very scary stuff.
MLK was assassinated about the time he was starting to stick his nose into the Vietnam War debate and when he was going to involve himself in the garbage dispute in Chicago. Maybe it was all just coincidence that he was killed at that particular time but MLK seemed to get that the struggle was larger than just black people. Sadly, too many black people don't get it.
I am too tired of hearing about what white folks done done to us. I am FED UP. Black people keep quoting Malcolm while failing to dig his main message: Do For Self and Respect Self. Black people need to do that one step thing in AA about the taking of the self inventory. I am sick of hearing about what a victim I'm supposed to be. I am a proud survivor of racism and fight it every day. But I'm nobody's damn victim.
When I marched down Market Street over five years ago with about 150,000 other people before the Iraq war started, I wondered where in hell were black people? How could you NOT realize what a devastating reality this war would be not just on Iraq and foreign policy but on funding for programs so near and dear to so many of us? Where the hell are we on the big issues? Guess which community is going to get it's collective ass kicked hardest by global warming? And guess who will be protesting that fact loudest when it all comes down on us after we sat back and smirked that "green" issues were white folks business? We have to stop looking at just the things in front of our face and in our neighborhood before we completely lose ourselves.
And since I'm rambling all over the place, we don't need A leader. We need people, worker bees, commited to work for the greater good and for things bigger than our individual self. Some folks are out there now but it's not enough. We have the internet to connect us in the struggle. We don't need a great black hope, people, because nobody is going to rescue us. We have to rescue ourselves.
If you want people to listen that means sometimes you also have to be quiet and listen yourself. How do you think white people take comments such as the ones you made?
ReplyDeleteTo me, you know, my opinion since we all have one, is that he is telling her to shut up and listen. A white man telling a black woman to shut up and listen. That is my opinion. But I'm going to take a break from here for awhile anyway. Because the sexism seems to get off the hook at times. It is okay to tell Cynthia to shut up, afterall her avatar is female.
later.
I was very saddened by the disagreement between freeslave and Michael Fisher. I have read both their blogs, and I have to admit - I wasn't getting where such a vehement disagreement was coming from, because they are both so powerful and I believe, do their best in speaking' truth to power', even when the 'truth' is very uncomfortable.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think the Afrospear is big enough to accept gradations from its members. I mean, there might be shades of difference between a freeslave, field negro, Jack & Jill Blog, BronzeTrinity,Francis Holland, AAPolitical Pundit, etc. But, the gap between us just isn't all that wide, say, compared to a LaShawn Barber or Star Parker.
We need to work within our common bonds, because they are plentiful.
Damn, I guess I'm going have to do a lot of explaining. Well, not "have to", but I want to do it.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I would never discount racism or it's impact on people. Whether, you believe it or not it affects white people as well, which is why we joined the Civil Rights Movement. Just because it's not your son or daughter or the people face's are not the same color does not mean you don't care or that it doesn't hurt or enrage you. I promise it does.
Field I appreciate you "sticking" up for me, if that's the proper word. I admit I got a little defensive after I read e.k.'s comment. I know what was coming next, the "r" word.
I imagine maybe Cynthia got a little defensive as well. And for the record I was not attacking you Cynthia.
In a way you're right, I see an underlying problem in America based on wealth. If you are poor you don't matter and your skin color is irrelevant.
But my larger point is this. We focus so much on our differences we fail to see all the similarities. No, I have no idea what racism is like. But as I said, I do know what suffering is, it's called "empathy".
I recognize whites have done horrible things. As I mentioned in another thread, my ex-girlfriend is Miwok Indian. There are less than 100 Miwoks left on the face of the earth because of Europeans. I couldn't even think of a thing to say when she told me that, what can you say? That is cold harsh reality, a reality she deals with every day of her life. And because it hurt her, it hurt me.
But I wouldn't do those kinds of things, nor would anyone I know or I wouldn't associate with them.
I can assure you I am not afraid nor do I mince words. I don't care who you are, I'll say what I'm going to say, and if you can't handle it, that's on you. If I were racist I'd just say it. And I sure as Hell wouldn't post a link to one of Field's articles telling dumbass "Liberals" they need to listen up.
Having said that, when you lump whites into an amorphic glob it doesn't help the situation. Just as blacks have fear and distrust of whites many whites feel the same way. They're not sure, as I was with my girlfriend, what to say. And then when they feel that maybe they are being judged right off the bat they say, "Fuck this." It's already uncomfortable as it is.
Several people who came here from my blog felt "chastised" and they didn't do anything. They are good people, and trust me I know this it's one of the several "magic powers" bestowed on me because of my ADD. I can read minds in a way or font in the case of the "blogosphere".
Most people want things to be different, white, black, blue, green whatever. I have no vested interest in the oppression of other human beings. But there are people who do, and they are just as much my enemy as they are your's.
I have a 3 year old daughter and when I look at what is going on in this country it scares the shit out of me. I try my best not to think about what America will be like when she's older.
The only way things can ever change is if we are able to come to the table. West Coast is correct, Martin was capped once he started talking about "We" instead of "Us". So was Malcolm, and Gandhi and anyone else who ever tried to make an honest stand.
Racism is bullshit. I hate it, everyone I know hates it, and we want it to stop. But how?
We are lost just as you are about what in the hell to do. Look at these so-called "Liberals", they can't even agree among themselves.
Now back to Field's question, (Linear thought is not one of my strengths, the ADD and all) do I think it's all about Classism? Ultimately, no, I think it's about power. Those in power want to maintain that power and the best way to do that is to divide people. One of the way they divide us is with "Ism-ology".
"I don't like you you're black, or you're Jewish, or you're Asian, or poor, or you wear Nikes and I wear Adidas, your haircut is 'redneck' on and on and on ad infinitum."
Again, white people don't know "racism" the way blacks do, but blacks don't know racism the way American Indians do, or Indigenous People all over the globe who were completely exterminated. What does that mean in the end? Does it mean you have no right to speak? I don't think so.
I know suffering, I'm human and despite Elijah Muhammad's claims, I do have a soul. I can feel empathy, I can "relate". And I can get angry about someone else's suffering as well. I spent six years of my life trying to help people in a system set up to perpetuate itself at all cost. I know what's going on, I ain't no damn fool.
You think because the people in the White House or Congress have the same color face as me that they care if I live or die?
I hope that explains at least a little bit. I hope we can continue this conversation.
By the way, I'm going to blog on Thubert down Georgia way, so hold off until I beat him down and you can have the rest of his carcass.
ReplyDeleteWhites are as much of a group as any other.
ReplyDeleteNot thinkning of yourself as white or a product of the historical behavior of whites is nothing but self defense.
When whites refuse to accept that they are part of a group of oppressors they are refusing to accept responsibility to correct the effects of their oppression.
Whites achieved their position (in terms of social indicators like wealth, income, education, health, etc...) in America and globally by use of force and oppression.
If Blacks only focus on themselves, the only way they can make equal progress is through use of the same tactics- the oppression of whites. That is unless whites (as a group) are willing to make sacrifices and fundemental societal changes.
The racial hierarchy in this country is the same as it was before 1965.
Whites (and immigrants) know this and continue to enjoy the psychological wages that come with their position.
" But I'm going to take a break from here for awhile anyway. Because the sexism seems to get off the hook at times. It is okay to tell Cynthia to shut up, afterall her avatar is female"
ReplyDeleteHUH? e.k. (kitty) you kid right. I mean you could not have been serious when you wrote that above quote. SEXISM from moi?
Now that's some offensive shit!
But hey,people see what they want to. I have been called allot of things, but never a sexist. I guess there is a first time for everything. 0)
I'm not seeing anything sexist here, just some strong opinions.
ReplyDelete"Whites (and immigrants) know this and continue to enjoy the psychological wages that come with their position."
ReplyDeleteThat is patently absurd.
Do you live in the United States? If so, you are living on land stolen from some of my ancestors through genocide. Not to mention that Buffalo Soldiers participated in this genocide by helping whites "Eliminate Native American Culture". You are enjoying the "psychological wages" of genocide.
You live on stolen property when are you giving it back?
I assume from your comments that Whites owe blacks whether we had anything to do historically with racism or slavery. If that's so then following your logic you owe American Indians. And if we trace your roots back far enough I imagine you owe others as well.
For example, if you have any "white" blood in your family then you not only owe Native Americans, you also owe other blacks.
And if that "white blood" is German then you also owe the Jews because of the Holocaust, and the hundreds of pogroms in Europe dating back over a thousand years. (Some of my family was Jewish by the way, and they were forced to flee Germany).
And if your ancestors were also Christian, shit you owe everyone on the face of the earth.
My blood comes from Ireland, Scotland, France, Germany and here in the United States.
My Irish ancestors fled abject poverty and oppression at the hands of Protestant Europeans, specifically the English, they got here and were greeted with more poverty and more prejudice.
My Germany family escaped the Nazis.
My Scotish family, who knows, all of them are dead, and/or assimilated. Also oppressed by the English.
The French side, well that's where I get my artistic flavor so I won't bitch.
And my Native ancestors? Forced to walk and die on the "Trail of Tears". Most forms of Cherokee art and culture GONE. Why, because the elders who knew it died on the "Trail of Tears".
My great-great-great grandmother just channeled me; she wants her land back, she wants the trees back, the air and water, her art, her religion, her language, her culture, the buffalo, her family, her friends, her people back.
"Not thinkning of yourself as white or a product of the historical behavior of whites is nothing but self defense."
If that's true for me it's true for you as well.
No excuses, Pay Up!
Bro Field... you are always hitting the mark.
ReplyDeleteSome folks just get off on division & hostility. They love to constantly challenge and argue... just for the sake of being the antagonist. It's as if they are stuck in that mode. I have never been able to figure out why these kinds of people are the way they are.
But fortunately, there are more of us than them in the blogosphere.
I hate the kind of negative energy that they bring... so I just try to avoid them....and when I do encounter them, I try not to deal with them on a negative level.
good points "fairlane", and I get the we are all mixed up thing. It's the end result of being an American. But having said all of that, I think you are discounting one thing; the color of our skins. French, German, Irish, and even Jewish, all have a lighter hue than the person of color in this country. I understand that people all have their own struggles, and the role class plays in our society, but you can't discount the role that prejudice based on skin color and association plays as well.
ReplyDeleteBut nice try, I respect your passion ;)
Field,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the more I hear from you the more I respect you. I honestly expected to be blasted for my comments, which in a way were meant to be Satirical. Take the absurd and multiply it out.
I'm not discounting skin color. I look white. A couple of times people have called me a "Spick" or "wetback", and I have been profiled by the Police on a couple of occasions. And once I had some Mexicans get really pissed with me when they found out I was just another "Gringo". But I look white.
I'm just trying to point out this idea you "owe" me is nonsense. If we looked at the the bloodlines of most people on earth somewhere in their familial history they've benefitted from the suffering of others.
@ fairlane
ReplyDelete" I'm just trying to point out this idea you "owe" me is nonsense. If we looked at the the bloodlines of most people on earth somewhere in their familial history they've benefitted from the suffering of others. "
mark bey: That has nothing to do with the fact that the american goverment itself used and benifit in its development from slave labor.
It is america that is always talking about how she is all about freedom or to qoute abe lincoln " america is the worlds last best hope for democratic goverment truly representing the people"
Lastly their were goverment policies executed to the disfavor of black people up until the 1960's which amounted to santions against the entire american black population.
You cant go around calling yourself the most civilized goverment on the planet and then treat the people who's stolen labor built the goverment uncivilized.
Lastly all over the south it was alright for white police agencies to turn black tax paying citizens over to lynch mobs or lynch those black men themselves.
Tax paying black citizens protested these lynchings for 50 years but could never get anti lynching legislation passed all because of the southern dixiecrats. It was murder against black citizens sanctioned by state goverments all over the south that was allowed to happen by the federal goverments.
Their is no statute of limitations on murder. So fairlane I hate to be the one to break it down to but yes the american goverment does owe black americans.
I get what you're saying, and in that vein they owe me as well.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm not the Government. They don't represent me or my values.
"That has nothing to do with the fact that the american goverment itself used and benifit in its development from slave labor."
I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone that would deny this is a damn fool and probably continues to believe George Bush is a "great President".
But there's also no doubt America benefitted from exterminating American Indians, including blacks.
As horrible as slavery was/is, blacks survived. Many Native people did not, they are extinct.
The American Indian served, in a way, as a buffer because whites viewed them as even "less human" than they did blacks. If blacks were 2/3 human, Natives were 2/3 black.
I mentioned my ex-girlfriend being Miwok. She literally knows every Miwok left on the planet. Think about that. Imagine if you knew every black person in the world.
How terrifying is that to know your people are almost extinct like the Dodo bird or the dinosaurs?
One of the "bloggers" who came here from my link (Legal Eagle) is from Australia. She was relating a story about an Aborigine tribe that has two men left who know the language. Two.
So many horrors we have all inflicted on one another. At one time every race, every religion, every nationality has been the victim of brutality.
There is no way to make up for that, unless you have a time machine or a genie.
We have to move forward and stop looking back so much. None of us can undo what is done. That is one of the brutal realities of life.
Our mistakes are there like scars and we can sit all day rubbing them wishing they'd go away or we can say, "Damn that was stupid, I'm not doing that shit again."
So to answer your question; our demands will be met when we are put at the fifty yard line like every body else ;)
ReplyDelete3:02 PM
Thanks Field for the response to my question. I can now give yours consideration. I'll get back to you with a thoughtful answer soon because I find it to be an interesting inquiry.
ps Likes me some Judge Walton too! Never met him, but his decision was the right one under tremendous pressure to deliver the wrong one.
fairlane's a lost cause :(
ReplyDeletemaybe he'll grow one day.
Alright.
ReplyDeleteSo Wayne. Since you done injected yourself into this little fracas, perhaps you, being a Field Negro and such and thus fearless, would you be so kind and answer some questions which neither your friends Asa nor Max have yet deigned to answer? But first the background question:
"Avatar Asabanga:
Let me repeat:
For Evia’s point of view and strong opinion can be summarized quickly and easily:
Black men, with a few exceptions of “wonderful and good” ones, in their majority are incapable to think for themselves and have failed to progress to the status of “three dimensional human beings” (less than “three dimensional human beings” meaning “sub-human” or “not quite human”).
That the black women who stay with this “sub-human”, or “not quite human” majority of black men are “mammies”. (mammie being a VERY specific term denoting a black female slave who nurtures the children of her master over her own).
That therefore the solution for black women is to escape this majority of “not quite human” black men is as follows: To seek to date and marry any other race of men than black ones, but especially white men, who in their majority clearly have achieved the status of “three dimensional human beings”, that is full human beings. A stage of development, once again, which the sub-human or not-quite human majority of black men have yet to achieve.
The imagery evia uses to bolster this argument is that of the unintelligent, unthinking, brutal, black brute and beast.
So, Avatar Asabanga, which part of this thesis do you “not totally” (and thus partially) agree with? And why?"
Ok. here my questions to you, Wayne.
(1) Would you agree or disagree with Ms. Evia's views as summarized above? If you agree, why? If you do not agree with these views, would you be so kind to explain and then move on to question #2:
(2) Would you agree or disagree that Ms. Evia's views as summarized above are anti-black racist?
(3) If your answer to (2) is "Yes", would you agree that a person who agrees with such views would appear to be equally racist?
If your answer to (2) is "No" would you please explain why you would find the views as summarized above not racist?
Thank you.
By the way. So who exactly would be the Flava Flav to My Chuck D?
Black men, with a few exceptions of “wonderful and good” ones, in their majority are incapable to think for themselves and have failed to progress to the status of “three dimensional human beings” (less than “three dimensional human beings” meaning “sub-human” or “not quite human”).
ReplyDelete---I wasn't asked but I have something to say. Is it a crime or bad for Evia to feel the way she does? Yes (if the above were true) it is insulting and awful, but I think it's okay for her to feel that way. I don't think it's insulting because there are so many people who defy that perception and so many people who embrace the perception and don't care if they do.
What's awful is the men in our families, at our workplaces, on our basketball teams who affirm the low opinion and expect nothing to be said or done about their behavior.
I cannot say this is a black only occurence --- it's a human occurence but when it occurs in the African American community, live and in the blogosphere, it's more damaging.
Why?
Because now more than ever, we collectively have to stop lying to ourselves and each other if we are going to progress.
When i say progress, I don't mean acquire material wealth or become the #1 celebrity on some arbitrary list.
Progress to me
means moving forward in the world with dignity, pride and integrity in the face of herculean obstacles.
Progress to me means not doing any old thing just to make a buck.
Progress to me means not having more children than you can afford.
Progress means not denigrating someone who wants to do their homework and make good grades in school.
Progress means fighting the system in a way that the system understands.
Progress to me means acknowledging that two black men don't need to be the go to guys on black issues for the mainstream media. (Why doesn't CNN or MSNBC call Julianne Malveaux once in awhile?)
In the year 2007, this type of progress is definitely not happening for us.
And maybe being honest about our stuff is the first step to get to progress.
Honesty doesn't have to mean obnoxious and cruel insults but an acknowledgment and ongoing discussion of all the issues/problems/challenges that black people face in this America and a celebration of the triumphs that don't have anything to do with sports, movies, music or television.
"Is it a crime or bad for Evia to feel the way she does?"
ReplyDeleteNope, it is not a crime. It isn't even bad to feel that way. It IS bad to advocate what is plainly, a racist position.
Evia advocates, as was pointed out to Asabagna and friends not only the above, but also justifys the rape of black women in the South during slavery and thereafter as well as the miscegenation laws as “proof” for the”primordial physical and spiritual desires of many white men for black women and vice versa”.
"Honesty doesn't have to mean obnoxious and cruel insults but an acknowledgment and ongoing discussion of all the issues/problems/challenges that black people face in this America"
True, and if you go over to the Assault and read our posts, you'll find that they are all about dealing with this epidemic and do so frankly and without excuses.
In any case, thanks for your response.
I'd still be interested in Wayne "Field Negro's" response to the questions posed.
OK michael fisher, I am going to address your question-although I am not sure if I should engage you, because a quick view of the free slave's site would seem to indicate that he has moved on from his little row with you.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless you have challenged me, and I think FS knows me well enough by now to know that I cannot and will not back down from a challenge.
Now first, you stated that you are summarizing["Evia's pint of view and strong opinion can be summarized quickly and easily"] Eva'a position and views, so we almost have a non-starter in our discussion. Becuase honestly, I would like to see the links to these statement that this individual allegedly made. But I will amuse you: If she did make those statements which implied that the black man is less than human, then she is obviously a fucking RACIST! (was that strong enough for you?) and if she is black, she would seem to have some self hate issues.
Now I won't fall into your trap for number two, because you obviously want me to say that those who agree with her are racist, ergo FN and ASA are racist because they agreed with her position. And since I cannot speak for them and I am not familiar with the genesis of this debate, I would be out of line. However, I will say this; if one agrees with what you represent that this Evia person is thinking; the simple answer would be that they could and probably should also be considered a racist.
And speaking of genesis; I consider ASA as well as FS friends. And they are both quite capable of speaking for themselves. ASA, as I am sure you are aware, is a Chtistian, while I on the other hand,consider myself a secularist. Yet we are both committed to the struggle with black people. Our differences do not prevent us from coming together on matters that we both consider important. My point is this;just because you do not agree with these cats on everything, that should not prevent you from coming together on the important stuff that matters. Why get all bent out of shape over some other blogger (Evia) whose words don't mean a hill of beans to any of us? You need to be engaging them (ASA and FS) directly, and not me. The questions you present to me should be presented to them. Maybe if that was done from the outset we would not be having this discussion.
Not sure of the posters name (Maybe Cullen or something) I would have to go back to your site and view the comments. But they (the poster)were way in your jock as a good hype man should be :) I didn't bother to respond directly to him/or her, because he/she seemed rather insignificant in the bigger scheme of things.
Peace.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"You need to be engaging them (ASA and FS) directly, and not me."
ReplyDeleteNo sh*t?
What the hell you think I've been doing, Wayne?
I provided both with the info, quotes, links and all. After which your boy Asa checked it out and, upon checking it out yes, Asa actually made the statement that he agreed with this, as you put it, "fucking RACIST" bullsh*t, though he did say that he "may not totally agree".
Thus I broke a spear off in his ass. Though I may not have totally.
In any case. I appreciate your answer and candor.
Take care,
Michael
Field Negro:
ReplyDeleteI have been accused lately of making pronouncements as if they were a judge's decision after reviewing the facts and the law, prefacing everything I say with the word, "Held:"
Heck, maybe it's true! :)
But if there's anything I can't stand, it's petty bickering! (I prefer "fundamental" crucially important bickering. Just KIDDING again!)
I think we're moving in the right direction with the AfroSpear because I see it growing. More and more of us are arguing with each other every day! But that means that if we get our crap together we have the potential for unity and accomplishment.
Held: Have a nice Sunday! :)
Universal Health Care
ReplyDeleteI think the USA needs a system of universal national health care, in which the federal government assumes responsibility for organizing the resources nationally to make sure that everyone's health care needs can be met. Although this might sound like a radical step in the United States, if you live in any rich country except the United States, health care is treated as a public service, like fire departments and police departments.
At least this was so when I lived in France. I got better health care as a foreign graduate student in France than I can get from the US govern and US insurance companies combined. And much cheaper too!
Now, the Mormon candidate for president is criticizing Hillary Clinton as being too French-like. Well, based on what I've seen over there, if we had medical care system like theirs then the Black infant mortality rate might not be three times that of white people in the United States.
But if you really want good health care and you can't afford to wait here, then consider taking a trip ninety miles from Florida to the little Latino and Black nation of Cuba. There, the infant mortality rate (6.6%) is one third of what it is for Blacks 90 miles away (17.9%). Hmmmmmmmm.
Field,
ReplyDeleteThis is in response to the question you asked at the end of this blog entry.
I think we would throw off the shackles of oppression like Forrest Gump did his leg braces and race toward our goals, just as he was able to do for his football team. But unlike his story, it wouldn’t be necessary for anyone to shout at us to stop. The racist boundaries that contain us would be no more.
Having our quiet riots quelled would free our minds and spirits from the anger and jealousy created from being stuffed in that barrel like so many crabs, where rising from, and is some cases escaping from the barrel, is predicated on clawing at and climbing over our own.
I think that the majority of black Americans would thrive if America made such a move towards fairness. And do so harmoniously.