"Well I was born in a small town And I live in a small town Prob'ly die in a small town Oh, those small communities"
~~John Cougar Mellencamp~~
I keep going back to those statements by the "O" man, the ones about folks in small town A-merry-ca. And here is the thing; no matter how hard I try I can't find a problem with what he said. But sadly, as I said in my last post, no matter how much you Obamaholics accuse me of being fickle, and no matter how much you say this little dust up won't hurt the "O" man, it will.
Mrs. Field is from a very small town in Louisiana (population one stop light), and she agrees with the "O" man 110%. She thinks that the folks in her town love god, guns, and every thing red white and blue in between. When I first met Mrs. Field's folks they couldn't get over the fact that I was from Jamaica. They had never met anyone outside of Louisiana let alone the country before. Nothing against my sweet in laws and their neighbors, but folks from small towns just don't see too much outside of their world. Which is why polittricksters tend to take advantage of them so much.
The "O" man was speaking to something that has become so much a part of A--merry-can life and politics that it has become the way we as A-merry-cans see ourselves. It 's the way that the repukes kept on to power for so long: Reach out to the people in small towns. Focus on issues like gays, guns, and god, and keep the electorate divided along racial and class lines. Racial lines when the folks are poor, and class lines when the folks you are trying to reach are rich. Find something to unify your base around like hating the gays and immigrants.---- Like one single gay person ever came to your small town and prevented you from getting your high school diploma, going to college, or learning a skill. Like that job the poor immigrant is doing picking mushrooms or cutting your lawn is keeping food off your family's table. But this is the brilliance of the A-merry-can "three card monty". Fool people into thinking that they all can be rich, and that the only reason that they are not is because of the other guy, and not the elected government officials and their corporate welfare kings.
It's why people like "constructive feedback" (whose comments have become more prevalent on this site, and who probably doesn't employ a single person, in spite of all his capitalist rhetoric--- I employ two by the way) probably has a six figure job, and is giving it all back in taxes and to different entities to keep up with his bougie lifestyle, and thinks he will be Donald Trump one day. He won't. When he dies, ten, twenty, thirty, or forty years from now, his obituary will read just like the millions of A-merry-cans who died before him. No foundations, no large University named after him, no trust fund to set up his great grandchildren for life, and no lasting contribution to society or to mankind. Just another dumb ass selfish A-merry-can who pursued happiness until his miserable life ended.
So "O" man, I hope you survive this latest media frenzy. But good luck. Knowing A-merry-cans like I do, your former pastor, Reverend Wright, better have god on speed dial.
Field,
ReplyDeleteThis is Barack's time!
Look at what he has accomplished!
1. He's gotten people more involved in democracy than ever before!
2. He's raised a blistering amount of money!
3. He has won more states!
4. He has won more delegates!
5. He's leading in popular votes!
6. He's won big states, small states, red states, blue states!
7. He's fighting against 2 campaigns....and winning!
8. He did it all without getting down & dirty!
9. He's has left the pundits with their jaw dropped!
10. Political scientists will be studying his campaign for years to come because he gave the Clinton machine a smack down!
Hello!
Barack 08
Hey Field if I post a lot of long-winded dense comments can I get a shout out on your next post too?
ReplyDelete~
ReplyDeleteObama, gotz some 'splainin tah doo, doo:
Obama, Now on the Defensive, Calls ‘Bitter’ Words Ill-Chosen
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/us/
politics/13campaign.html
`
I think he heard Rev. Wright make those comments in a dream. He woke up before a security guard caught Hillary's campaign workers scuffling a dark office.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, I think this is not even newsworthy. Obama's slight of the black community is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than some damn sound bite about "small town" people.
But that's just me talking. I forgot that black folks love the O man.
Con -- You spend five hours researching one article to counter a post I wrote and researched in about three minutes. While you were out Googling to the ends of the Internets, I had dinner, read two chapters of Dreams From My Father and watched two Stanley Cup Playoff hockey games on Versus.
ReplyDeleteYou don't need schooling. You need a short bus to take you to remedial trolling class.
Brother, you stole my thunder! This, in my humble opinion, is the best entry you've ever posted (all of them are good, but this one BITES!).
ReplyDeleteGeorge M
P.S. It interests me that Brother Kevin Myles just finished posting one of his best posts (I literally read it about 20 minutes ago.)
Rural America is usually associated with bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and ignorance.
ReplyDeleteDamn, now that I think about it, that sounds a lot like urban America, too.
There's no collision more destructive than a meeting of the minds.
Obama was wrong about working class whites clinging to guns because they're bitter from their supposed economic decline. Many whites simply enjoy hunting, it being part of their culture that often goes back generations. My 60 year old father often talks fondly of the good times he had hunting with his grandfather, uncles and cousins. This goes back decades long before NAFTA, stagnant wages and what have you.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this will hurt Obama too much. However I would say that if the PC left is interested in really changing things, in really taking on the 1% who own 70% of the countries wealth they need to at least be dialoguing (if not forming a coalition) with non-college educated whites who make up close to half the electorate. Yes, that's a little simplistic but this a blog not a book.
So in other words get a class analysis. People who think that progressive change will happen minus working class whites are deluding themselves. Whatever way this rather large group swings will determine the next president.
I think the "0" man is just honest, and people are not use to that.
ReplyDeleteMr. Fields, I think that the media just don't want the "0" man to rain on their parade. But if God is for you, no one can be against you.
ReplyDeleteDude, brilliant post! I posted on the three card monte topic months ago. It really is the one single thing the sick-fuck right-wing has been so effective act. Actually governing, not so much.
ReplyDeleteWhat Obama said is true. While obviously it wasn't the most well crafted statement (which is probably why he made a concession about the words he used), I think he can run on this. He should go to these small towns and say these thing.
ReplyDeleteI find it ridiculous that Hillary and Co. are telling people, "well, you guys should be offended!" Whatever. I find it ridiculous that both Clinton and McCain who are hundreds of times richer than Obama can call him elitist.
I was completely surprised that Clinton took this time to pounce. Expected it from McCain, but I guess I should have expected from her track record. She really will say or do anything to win.
And now she's in bars drinking shots and telling stories about how she shot ducks. Can we say trying too hard? It looks ridiculous.
I don't think this is a campaign ender (it seems everything is a 'campaign ender' these days). He's not going to lose voters he already has over this. You can argue that it doesn't help him gain voters and that's why I agree that it will hurt him.
However, the reason why it's not really going to stick is because it's just another contradictory thing his opponents have tried to define him with.
First he's not black enough, then he's too black. He's a muslim and then he's some crazy fringe Christian. He's just a rock star with no substance, and then the next day he's too elitist. But then again he's black, did you know?
It doesn't make sense at all, and I guess I'm going to have hope that the average voter isn't going to spend time trying to figure out the new Obama-Image-of-the-Week.
@drydock:
ReplyDelete"Obama was wrong about working class whites clinging to guns because they're bitter from their supposed economic decline. Many whites simply enjoy hunting..."
I know that your statement speaks for many, if not most, of working class whites.
Yet, I recall that, during racial unrest, guns sales to whites have shot up the sales charts like a rocket gone wild.
And these purchases weren't just new gun sales, but a stockpiling of guns and ammo.
And they weren't for rabbit season, or deer season, but for vermin walking on two, not four legs.
Democratic party elders Al Gore and Jimmy Carter are being lined-up to deliver the coup de grâce to Hillary Clinton and end her campaign to become president.
ReplyDeleteFalling poll numbers and a string of high-profile blunders have convinced party elders that she must now bow out of the primary race.
Former president Carter and former vice-president Gore have already held high-level discussions about delivering the message that she must stand down for the good of the Democrats.
“They’re in discussions,” a source close to Carter told Scotland on Sunday. “Carter has been talking to Gore. They will act, possibly together, or in sequence.”
The appeal of both men and their ability to unite Democrats behind Clinton’s rival, Barack Obama, would have a powerful effect, and insiders say it is a question of when, rather than if, they act.
Both Carter and Gore occupy the rarefied position of elder statesmen – in addition to their White House past, both are winners of the Nobel Peace Prize, giving them additional gravitas to carry the party with them.
"I don't think this will hurt Obama too much. However I would say that if the PC left is interested in really changing things, in really taking on the 1% who own 70% of the countries wealth they need to at least be dialoguing (if not forming a coalition) with non-college educated whites who make up close to half the electorate"
ReplyDeletedrydock, I co-sign with that 100%. This was the gist of my post. Anyone who wants to beat the repukes will have to figure out how to get some of that working class white, and small town vote.
shonufded is right as well, when you think about it, many of the urban voters have the same prejudices as the voters in small towns.
"I find it ridiculous that Hillary and Co. are telling people, "well, you guys should be offended!" Whatever. I find it ridiculous that both Clinton and McCain who are hundreds of times richer than Obama can call him elitist."
Isn't politricks great?
"Hey Field if I post a lot of long-winded dense comments can I get a shout out on your next post too?"
heartsandflowers, getting a shout out in a post isn't always a good thing :)
Hey, sometimes I just don't have time to respond to all the comments. So unfortunately, the only time I can do it is in a post. But what folks like con...feedback doesn't realize is that I am like a comedian with the microphone, and he is like a heckler in the audience.
Everything you say is true field.
ReplyDeleteBut the Ultra Conservatives want to have it both ways. They want to keep the poor down and out, but they also expect the poor down and the out to be grateful for the honor.
And when people like Reverend Wright, who have every right to be angry, get angry and tell it like it is, or when Mr. Obama gets angry and tells it like it is, they (the ultra conservative game players) get angry at those who are angry for being angry.
And when the likes of Mrs. Clinton, who has absolutely nothing to offer the down and out except the opportunity to be even more down and out, hears someone who is justifiably angry, she, and her fellow republicans jump all over the person who uttered such truths and call her or him angry and out of touch.
I hope, I hope, I really hope, that this evil republican in democrat clothes, does not get the nomination and that she and her philandering husband will quietly go away and continue to earn the big bucks with on the rubber chicken circuit.
Hi Field:
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading your post this morning, and the first stance from John Mellencamp's song is so appropriate. I always like that song and John Mellencamp because he gives such a honestly poignant description of small town life (perhaps he is not in touch with the average American either like McCain has become). In the second stance in the song accurate describes life in the small town by stating that his parents live in the small town, and his job is small town with providing little opportunity. When one thinks about it's really depressing living in a small town. One could certainly see the similarities in small and urban communities that provide the poor working class with limited opportunities.
The American Dream is a 1950s concept created by the advertisers of Madison Avenue to get people to become consumers after World War II. Tell people that they deserve to buy that Buick because they work hard or washer and dryer. You deserved to have all the modern conveniences to make your life easier. Yes, you are correct Field, the American people were sold a bill of goods and you see results of a society that has over consumed and overspent.
Perhaps, Constructive should read the book "What's the Matter with Kansas," to see how politicians get people to vote against their interests, but who I am kidding, he will not read it because greed has consumed his thoughts. He lacks empathy and too self-absorbed to see the needs or sufferings of others. I think Constructive grew up without having much, and it's his fear of scarcity drives his capitalist rhetoric. He suffers from the fear of being poor again, and it leads him toward his abhorrence that poor person who may reach his level or surpass him, or he may fall down to the poor person's level. I could be wrong, but it's my initial opinion based on what I've read.
Gee. I feel honored Field-Negro. I got special mention in your article. I need to send you a picture so I can be prominently honored on the right banner of your blog - just like Alfonzo Jackson has a permanent place there.
ReplyDeleteI have learned to not make it "all about me" though. Thus I ask you to shift your "attack" from ME over to ALL BLACK FOLKS. When YOU attempt to hold me to a certain standard.....think of judging ALL BLACK FOLKS. We then can see who falls short along with me. Instead of wondering if I EMPLOY other people - why don't you make note of how West Philly needs MORE people who engage in ownership and job creation? Wouldn't this be a more USEFUL expression of your ideological angst?
I just saw an author do a reading of his new book "The Race Card". He talked about how Jay-Z shifted from Cristal champagne to Dom P after being offended by the comments of someone associated with the distribution of the product. Field-Negro: Jay-Z and other "Bling Bling" multi-millionaires SPILL more in champagne paying tribute to their Homies each year than I make. (and yes I do have a consulting company of my own)
Why do you reserve your condemnations in such DISPROPORTION? Since you favor tax policies that go after the RICH - why don't you focus your attacks on the Black wealthy rather than the Black Conservative as you attempt to satisfy your ideological passions?
(PS - In all seriousness I am proud of you for having 2 employees. Do you pay them a LIVING WAGE by the way?)
Field-Negro, Other Co-Conspirators:
ReplyDeleteI have always been curious as to how you all think. As you all shift focus to the supposed 'bigots' in small towns in the Northeast you all seem to skip over the MAJOR CITIES that are present in these states. The city of Philadelphia and other cities in the region are 80% DEMOCRAT CITIES.
Field - why is it that the SUPPOSED hatred of gays in Wilkes-Barre PA makes it on your radar screen while you offer no similar condemnation of the CORE REASONS regarding that which ails your city of residence with regard to the homicide rates and other ills. Yes indeed you DOCUMENT the murder rate - (72? Man it was just 68) but why is it that you save your "deep probing" regarding WHY THINGS ARE on these small towns that are supposedly conservative and full of Republicans? If you were to commit yourself to investing into analysis that would prove to translate into most benefit for you and your interests - why do you spend so much time probing the bigotry in a place in Northwest PA - that you will never likely live?
It seems that in probing the bigotry in small town PA you advance your desire to have Obama, a Black man, elected president.
For me and MY INTERESTS as an conservative independent I would much prefer to have safer streets upon which we can congregate and build social networks; more effective schools so that people like CALI won't have to worry about low skilled jobs leaving and instead focus on the high skilled jobs that are vacant seeking qualified individuals.
Obama does not necessarily guarantee that the items on this list will be accomplished. But these items on this list are MORE IMPORTANT to me than having "the first Black president" so my focus is allocated according to my INTERESTS. (And NO I did not say that John McCain will bring this forth either. Maybe some of these things are APOLITICAL in nature?)
drydock,
ReplyDeleteThe politicians want to make guns a federal issue, in that when D.C. or Philly want to have local gun laws, they scare the small town person into thinking we want to take your guns. It then becomes a knee jerk response, even though there may be small town residents who don't feel the 2nd Amendment forbids background checks, or that it is mighty suspicious when someone buys a case of handguns.
Field,
ReplyDeleteI gotta tell ya being from Louisiana myself, a lot of what you say is true. Additionally, what Obama said was true but the "bitter" was what caught everyone's eye. I remember from my own experience with the job losses of the 80's in LCLA, people were bitter to the point we made bumper stickers saying " Will the last person to leave LCLA turn out the lights." In that period many of the people turned to God,b/c unlike the government he listened. Similarly, people got made at people of a higher melanin count that could undercut their jobs. Now the gun part..didn't get that one. But two out of three ain't bad.
However, as a soon-to-be lawyer( catch me after July) I know that words can have an effect, especially in STA( small-town A-merry-ca).
However, I see three probable scenarios:
1. People who were looking for a reason not to vote for him, have an excuse to disguise that Obama's high melanin count was a factor(Ed Rendell Dems). This allows HRC the Repulican VP canidate to paint him as elitist even though she has 109M, and hasn't been to STA in the 20 years she has been in DC. (9-10 pt victory-Clinton-slight momentum until-NC)
2. Progressives and Afro-Americans and some STA's see through the BS. Remember that Clinton has blatantly lied to them, but most importantly running her campaign for RNC puppet masters giving them attack ads for the general if the "O" man gets it.Oh and lets not forget the tacit endorsement of McCain.While still getting the STA'S who hate high melanin in a candidate(5-6 pt victory-Clinton-momentum until NC)
3. O uses the debates as a springboard to clarify his statements, look Presidential and puts her on the defensive. B/C trust me there will be another Clintonian follow-up before the 22. But she still has the STA's not wanting the melanin in their political diet.( 2-3 pt victory Clinton-no momentum) However, McCain may try to use it to get STA's w/ guns to like him.
So I think this is a problem for the present until Tues debate, and in general 527's. But that issue will fizzles as McCain has a ton on him. Keating 5, Pastor Hagee (I had fam in Katrina); GAffs-Who are the Shia and Sunni; Flip-Flopping on Torture; 100 years of war; I don't understand the economy even though we are in a recession--Let the 527 wars start--calling Move On..,etc.. Scramble and Prepare to Attack.
I've lived in a small town (more than one) all my life.
ReplyDeleteI thought O Man was rather kind in his assessment. I've always found small town working class mentality to be steeped in ignorance and close minded provincialism.
Sadly, the right (including Billary) will take these statements out of context, twist them around, manufacture absurdities around them and use them to nail Obama to the cross.
Yes, these scum sucking pieces of shit could actually sink him with this trivial bullshit.
Every day I commute 30 miles to an honest-to-God factory (grease, dirt and all) in an honest to God rustbelt city (Akron, Ohio.) I work every damn day with men and women with no college educations, whose tradesman's skills (mechanic, pipefitter, electrician) are how they pay for their kids' suppers.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm here to tell you; they agree wholeheartedly with Barack.
Not the college-educated white boys in the engineering department upstairs; they're Republicans almost to a man (and among some of the dumbest smart people I've ever known), but the grubby, grumpy bastards (and bitches) who actually put this heavy-metal capital equipment together and make 'em work.
The ones who have watched the Rubber City lose its place in the industrial manufacturing pantheon of the American economy.
Bitter?
Dude, you have no idea.
Let McSame and his fellow-traveler with the XX chromosomes blather to the sacks of hammers upstairs.
The working stiffs know better.
I actually agreed with his statements. I think in the media, there's this tendency to prop up small-town America as the quintessential American way of life and to bash anything that's urban, big city (a la blue state) thinking.
ReplyDeleteIt all started with election 2000 and the whole red state and blue state furor.
[quote]The ones who have watched the Rubber City lose its place in the industrial manufacturing pantheon of the American economy.[/quote]
ReplyDeleteWow!!!!!
Akron Ohio Government
Mayor Don Plusquellic (Democrat)
Mayor Plusquellic is a member of the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition
City Council
James P. Hurley III, Ward 1 Democrat
Bruce Kilby, Ward 2 Democrat
Marco S. Sommerville, Ward 3 Democrat (council president)
Renee L. Greene, Ward 4 Democrat (coucil vp)
Kenneth L. Jones, Ward 5 Democrat
Terry Albanese, Ward 6 Democrat
Tina Merlitti, Ward 7 Democrat
Bob Keith, Ward 8 Democrat
Mike Freeman, Ward 9 Democrat
Kelli Crawford, Ward 10 Democrat
Michael Williams, At Large Democrat
John R. Conti, At Large Democrat
Jim Shealey, At Large Democrat
Demographics:
As of the census[2] of 2000
217,074 people, 90,116 households, and 53,709 families
67.22% White
28.48% African American
0.26% Native American
1.50% Asian
0.02% Pacific Islander
0.43% from other races
2.07% from two or more races
Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.16% of the population
Seems to be a link between a city's growth and the evil corporations that are the engine for it. Or it just might be me:
[quote]Akron was, indeed, booming. For a time it was the fastest-growing city in the country, its population exploding from 69,000 in 1910 to 208,000 in 1920. People came for the jobs in the rubber factories from many places, including Europe[/quote]
You know Ivan.....we really do need to get rid of those dang blasted REPUBLICANS that are running Akron into the ground man. You all should turn out large for the Democrats in November and purge every last one of those pesky REPUBLICANS who are dominating the city. :-/
(This is too easy folks. I get into debates with people from places like Indianapolis, Milwaukee, St. Louis and so many other places, not knowing a damned thing about the city in advance. I go to Wikipedia and do research and BAM - I see the problem as to why the debater is DEPRESSED. The problem is......THEY ARE BLINDED)
You guys have DONE ALL THAT YOU CAN TO RUN THE BAD GUYS OUT LOCALLY. You are at the end of your ropes. Rather than CHANGE your base assumptions - you look for a NATIONAL TAKE OVER. Didn't Obama himself say that "trying harder at doing the very same thing but expecting different results is absurd? I guess you didn't see that he was talking about YOU.........)
The truth will never stop hurting...
ReplyDelete[quote]even though there may be small town residents who don't feel the 2nd Amendment forbids background checks, or that it is mighty suspicious when someone buys a case of handguns.[/quote]
ReplyDeletehathor:
Besides that pesky issue about the 2nd Amendment RIGHTS to bear arms the FACT of the matter is that these gun laws mostly impact law abiding citizens who obtain their guns through legal means.
The gun violence is coming from people who DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE LAW and who obtain their guns through ILLEGAL gun purchases.
Worse yet when the police stop those who carry these firearms it is the USUAL SUSPECTS who BLAME THE POLICE for harassing them. They also complain about the number of people in jail!
All of this is a rouse. We are staring decades of failed social policy right in the face which SHOULD precipitate CHANGE (not the Obama type of "change" but where we ask 'the VICTIMS' to play the central role in bringing forth the type of society they claim to want).
The sad truth of the matter is that the protest march from West Philly up to Harrisburg that to ask the state legislators to "deny our Black sons from obtaining handguns that they are using to kill each other with" FAILED not because the rural whites are unsympathetic to urban Blacks - it is because the people who are killing each other in Philly DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE LEGALITY OF THEIR WEAPONS and once they have them in hand - the type of hunting they are doing does not have a deer or a wild turkey in their sites.
In their own perverted way some recently spit on the grave of NRA's Charlton Heston because HIS ORGANIZATION is said to have created the pathway for tens of thousands of Black people to be killed by guns on the street over the past few decades. This type of logic assumes the INFERIORITY of us Black people and our ability to use weapons in our possession for constructive and defensive purposes only.
There has been a long history in RACISTS attempting to snatch guns out of the hands of Black people. I am only saddened today that their voices have been joined by so many Black people.
http://www.liberalswithguns.com/db3/00208/liberalswithguns.com/_uimages/gun_control_is_racist.jpg
[quote]This allows HRC the Repulican VP canidate to paint him as elitist even though she has 109M[/quote]
ReplyDeleteAnon - Why is it that in order to make it all come together in your mind HILLARY CLINTON must be cast as a REPUBLICAN? Does this mentally comfort you in some way?
In this classic "we are the good guys and THEY ARE EVIL" you (and others) seem to be unable to see Hillary Clinton and all of the other Democrats who are in disagreement with you as TRUE BLUE DEMOCRATS just the same as you are. These so called "Republican Tactics" are in fact NOT REPUBLICAN. They are low down and race baiting tactics that should be repudiated. BUT they need to be called for what they are NO MATTER WHO does them - Democrat or Republican - Obama, Clinton or McCain. Racism has no ideological or partisan bound.
Did the Clintons STEAL their $109 million that they made over the past several years? I can assure you that some number of people on this very blog have the CLINTON BOOK sitting right on their shelves at home. He probably got $10 bucks into his pocket from the $29.99 that you paid for it out of your. And now YOU ARE HATING ON HIM? Please!
~
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of immigrants, they're here;
faster, quicker, and like our Caribbean competitors, smarter!
Do they know who Obama is; do they care?
Smarter than the rest of you Negroes, that is.
`
NSangoma,
ReplyDeleteIt seems you have a new play date partner - another right-winger that no one is paying attention to here.
Now you're not so lonely.
Field,
ReplyDeleteSorry to disagree but for many 'Mericans, the immigrants do take the jobs. Meat packing is one that has been documented. I would also like to point out that Hazleton PA has no native Hispanic presence. It is also horrendously depressed and has a large and inexpensive labor pool. Many locals prefer to stay and make less money. And they did do the less pleasant work. They did the landscaping, the busing of tables, the day construction.
I live in PA in a small town that has been Republican-owned for decades. The pols tell us everything is fine and the wages are great. Then, I read in the Pburgh paper about illegals and their crap wages. Funny thing, they make more than the median wage here.
I believe corporations only when the regs are enforced and the penalties for lying are severe.
Mold
Field, God on speed dial is not necessary> All that's necessary is for Hillary or her husband to keep talking, and we know they will. We know Bill's foot is never too far away from his mouth.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very minor dust up for the "O" man. This will be out the new cycle by wednesday.
Deep down these rural folks know they have some bitterness about their treatment by their government.
Brother Komrade:
ReplyDeleteI am not on a mission of POPULARITY with you or anyone else.
I am simply reading the arguments that people put up in their usually complicit echo chamber and then, instead of buying them all I go and do RESEARCH to bear what they say out.
SOME people will choose to read what I say, some people will not read what I say at all - seeing my name and skipping what they see as "rhetoric". Still others will read my every word and continue on doing as they do.
You see Brother Komrade - what I do is NOT dependent on what they do with what is typed on this message board by me. My only goal is to understand WHY the particular community that is most interest to me is BEHOLDEN as it is while the people within keep doing as they do while being so aggrieved.
My goal is not to CHANGE THEM or promise them CHANGE as certain politicians make promises that they alone cannot fulfill. My GOAL is to define what these people's COMMON GOALS ARE - goals that I no doubt agree with in kind. From there we can agree to MEASURE whether or not a certain METHODOLOGY that they are inclined to support is EFFECTIVELY getting them to their end goals or if it is failing to do so.
What is POPULARLY thought of as being effective for them is not that which is PROVABLY EFFECTIVE for them. A person seriously seeking SOLUTIONS should be on a mission to close the gap between what is POPULAR and what is EFFECTIVE.
For others......they are simply interested in insuring that "their side" remains in and gains more POWER!!! They should learn to be content with their current circumstances for they have DONE EVERYTHING NECESSARY TO REMAIN THERE.
Which one of these groups do you belong to Brother Komrade? This is the only thing that you need to consider.
[quote]I live in PA in a small town that has been Republican-owned for decades. The pols tell us everything is fine and the wages are great. Then, I read in the Pburgh paper about illegals and their crap wages. Funny thing, they make more than the median wage here.
ReplyDeleteI believe corporations only when the regs are enforced and the penalties for lying are severe.
[/quote]
Mold:
Care to tell us where YOU live so that I can do my standard research on those blasted Republicans? :-) :-) :-)
Here you go about Pittsburgh:
http://functionalculture.blogspot.com/2007/09/pittsburgh-tale-of-one-city-two-ships.html
Constructive: I enjoy reading your comments, and find them a great counter-point to the monotony of the chorus of agreement to everything Field writes.
ReplyDeleteNo offense Field... I'm a long time reader and I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think it's good to have a dissenting opinion, and I also happen to agree with Constructive quite a bit.
I did think it was unfair to imply that if Constructive didn't employ anyone, he was somehow a hypocrite regarding his capitalistic views. Most everyone who posts here is a capitalist when it comes right down to it, and those who are not should cease their gorging at the (relative) feast they enjoy here in this capitalist society. There is hypocrisy afoot, but not on the part of Constructive...
As for the comments Obama made... First of all, they were elitist. Whether or not HRC or McCain have more money than Obama has nothing to do with that.
What would happen if during the Jeremiah Wright flap, McCain had said that for years the black community had been neglected by previous administrations and that therefore it was understandable that blacks are bitter and "clinging to God, guns, and pointing the finger at others"? What if that was how Obama's decision to stay at the church and how Rev. Wright's opinions had been portrayed? Let's be real; people here commenting on this blog were outraged that it was even an issue. I can only imagine the fury had McCain said something analogous to what Obama did say.
The truth is these communities have been neglected by both sides of the political coin. In that way, Obama was right. But people in this country have been clinging to God and guns for centuries, and it is just as wrong to characterize the poor and/or rural white communities as xenophobic/racist *monolithically*, as it would be to portray the black community in the same terms.
Field,
ReplyDeleteGreat post. There is already a website devoted to bitter voters.
http://www.bittervoters.org/
I'm not an Obamaholic, although I am pretty sure I will vote for him in the general election. I don't think he is an elitist, if he was, he would have been trained as a child not to say thing things that might hinder his election. He's said a lot of things that I thought were his honest opinions, his autobiography wasn't written to win an election.
My biggest concern with Senator Obama has been the Rezko deal. I just can't seem to get past it, but it still pales in comparison to the Clintonbaggers.
DMD,
ReplyDeleteI understand what your point is, but Obama was stating a fact, particularly whenever economic hardship occurs there is an increase of racism and xenophobia. It's human being and the very dark side in that respect. When people are downtrodden and lack of job opportunities are scare, one group with pit itself against another.
The Crusades would be a perfect example. Of course Crusades was not about religion, but who is going to control Istanbul (previously Constantinople) as it's possessed a huge port for goods to come from other parts of the world. However, you cannot tell the peasants who you want to fight in the Crusades that's really about economic gain for the few, so you tell the ignorant people who can barely read or read at all that God wants to fight and they believe because they are obedient to God. Believe it or not the powers that be even got a few towns of peasant to follow a goose to lead them into the Crusades. Just like leading a flock of sheep to the slaughter.
DMD it is more about getting people to take their focus off what is really going on and voting against their interests. It is very easy to blame someone close to you for your problems. Unfortunately, we do lash out at people who really didn't cause the problem who are close. Just when AT&T for example screws up your bill, but you yell at the customer service rep because she just happens to work there. DMD, I am just suggesting that we look at the bigger picture because it's all interconnected. I am not upset with illegal immigration because they have the goal of working to feed their families and build a better life for themselves. I am going to very blunt and forgive me everyone, but illegal immigrants are the new field Negros. It's about cheap labor and isn't that how American became the economic powerhouse. No one ever says anything about the wave of Eastern European that come into the country illegally and some of these have huge crime organizations in the East, we more concerned with Pedro who is picking lettuce and yes working construction. However, he would not be working in construction if the unethical construction owner did not hire him in the first place. It comes down to greed and cheap labor, and it's not going away anything soon. America is been doing business that way since time and memorial, and another tidbit for you Princeton University was built of the Opium drug trade.
DMD is not capitalism that people have a problem with per se, but question the ethical practices. Perhaps it's just me, I believe you can make money with exploiting people to achieve that goal. However, the problem is that greed rears its ugly another dark aspect of human nature. I do not think what the executives at Enron did to its employees as a good thing and people who invested money in their retirement funds was a good thing, and it's not capitalism but greed. Unless you think capitalist and greed are the same thing like the character in the movie "Wall Street" that greed is good until you get caught.
Here's what is elitist and it isn't Barack Obama -- it's Hillary Clinton thinking she can manipulate rural voters into thinking she's just regular folks.
ReplyDelete"Small town folk like us," said Sen. Clinton, "don’t cling to God or guns because we’re bitter about the economy, as my opponent suggests. We believe in God because he’s real, and we keep and bear arms as the best insurance against tyrants who would strip our freedoms if they didn’t fear our collective power."
Sorry Hillary, but "small town folks like us" aren't worth $111 million, live in estates in Chappaqua, and townhomes in Georgetown.
Only an elite like Ivy League educated Hillary Clinton thinks she can successfully play blue collar voters in rural Pennsylvania and effectively convince them she's one of y'all.
I think Hillary is dragging out a race she can't win to give Barack enough rope to hang himself in the general election. Mc Cain wins 08 and Hillary will be pansuited up for 2012.
ReplyDeleteLove this post. It's as honest as the "O" man was. You're just wrong about this hurting him. Like June4 said, if God is with.....
ReplyDeleteWas the gun comment about hunting or the fight about the right to bear arms?
Dmd said...
ReplyDeleteConstructive: I enjoy reading your comments, and find them a great counter-point to the monotony of the chorus of agreement to everything Field writes.
PLEASE don't feed the animals. It's not good for them.
It causes diarrhea.
"Which one of these groups do you belong to Brother Komrade? This is the only thing that you need to consider."
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm in the group that wants to close the gap between POPULAR and what is EFFECTIVE alright and neiter party can do help us in that regard, I believe our answers lie in other avenues.
You know Ivan.....we really do need to get rid of those dang blasted REPUBLICANS that are running Akron into the ground man. You all should turn out large for the Democrats in November and purge every last one of those pesky REPUBLICANS who are dominating the city. :-/
ReplyDeleteErrr... no. National tax policies as well as a state government dominated by conservative ideology carry a whole lot more weight than the mayor, the city council, or my aunt Phoebe.
But hey, that's how conservatives operate.
Oh, and how's that land war in Asia working out for you?
Bill Clinton said in his book, "My Life"
ReplyDelete“If [Republicans] could cut funding for Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment, middle-class Americans would see fewer benefits from their tax dollars, feel more resentful paying taxes, and become even more receptive to their appeals for tax cuts and their strategy of waging campaigns on divisive social and cultural issues like abortion, gay rights, and guns.”
I thought I should throw that out there.
In addition, yea say something about small town white Americans and its a big deal. However you can sit all over inner city black Americans...I get it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletei did not mean "sit", I meant s$#t all over!! I'm not talking about Obama though, I am speaking about people and politicans in general.
ReplyDeleteRev. Wright must read this blog. He called Fox News "Fix News".
ReplyDeleteCome to my blog for more details.
Just for the record, citing HRC's Ivy League education as an evidence for elitism (as though it were in contrast to Obama) doesn't work, cause the O-man is Ivy too. Not saying HRC isn't elitist, just that the O-man probably has some of it in him too.
ReplyDeleteHennasplace:
I think we are probably in basic agreement in how we would like people to be treated. If I had my druthers, no one would ever be exploited. And I am all for limiting unethical practices of corporations, insofar as we as a society are able to do so. But, it is like that South Park episode where several kids come back from their first year of college (not the main characters), and go around blaming everything on the "evil corporations. Human greed and selfishness is what ails us, but the daily manifestation of that truth (i.e. the ugliness we see around us) seems most often to arise from the greed and selfishness of individuals within our communities. So it just seems to me, much as Constructive said, that there is a disproportionate use of time blasting corporations and the like, rather than calling out our neighbors and associates on their selfish and destructive behaviours right next door. Maybe that is because if we were to criticize those close to home, we ourselves must be ready to hear criticism?
Brownsugaqt86: No one should get shit on. Not the black inner city communities, not immigrants, and not rural whites. And we should call people out when it occurs, even if it's by our new favorite politician. I say new favorite, cause it wasn't so long ago the Clintons were vociferously defended by many of those crucifying them now. But see I understand that - that's self-interest (or in the case of corporations, greed) at work.
And finally, no matter what you think of her or her tactics (I personally don't like either at all), we all know her policies as President wouldn't be all that different than Obama's.
dmd, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Still, you are right, I enjoy con....feedback's variation of the same old tired pull yourself up by the boot straps argument.
ReplyDeleteHe is obviously late to this party. I have been checking black folks on this site for two years.
but dmd you are right, dissenting opinions are good, and I wouldn't want it any other way.
"Errr... no. National tax policies as well as a state government dominated by conservative ideology carry a whole lot more weight than the mayor, the city council, or my aunt Phoebe."
Ivan, save your breath, he can't see past his elephant trunks.
And cons...feedback, you are welcome, but I think I will pass on the picture :)
And for the record, I do pay a living wage. What do you think I am, an evil right wing conservative?
Field, would you consider writing an entry which critiques the pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps philosphy? I think it would be interesting and I know for me at least, it would be educational.
ReplyDeleteThe truth hurts doesn't it? I went to Penn State and I know for a fact that guns are a big part of that culture. Back then they even closed school for the first day of deer hunting season, so what does about people in little towns in Pennsyvlania?
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't until I went to PSU that I was called "nigger" by a white person. Some hicks from small town PA had never even seen a black person until they went to college (maybe that's why they called the fire department on my roommate when she took a hot comb to her hair).
People in small towns in PA tend to have small minds.
It just confirms what
It's becoming more difficult for me to believe that Obama transcends race issues. To me that's important because that and his optimism were his best qualities. He needs to find that guy that wrote that speech for him in 1994 or he could be in trouble.
ReplyDeleteszechuanpork:
ReplyDeleteIt's becoming more difficult for me to believe that Obama transcends race issues.
Are you suggesting that his last, so-called controversial statement was racial?
If you think that it was somehow racially focused and not transcendent, then, in order for him to satisfy you, he'd have to keep his mouth shut altogether.
Perhaps you find that kind of don't-ask, don't-tell "optimism" less threatening, but I find it appalling.
Field,
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to say I agree with you about the Obama comments.... they're probably true, but probably not the smartest thing to say. Still when I look at H vs. O, I'm glad I cast my uncounted Florida vote for O.
(I voted for him because I felt that something other than 'politics as usual' was going on. I still think that's essentially correct. I hope I'm right about that because it's too cold in Canada for me to move there.)
Anonymous, what I'm saying is if he wants to get elected he needs to avoid the cracker angle. Just not helping things.
ReplyDeleteDMD,
ReplyDeleteI do not have a problem with critiquing people within my community. I tell people all the time they should better inform themselves for their personal development because that is their responsibility. I personally do not believe in the pull yourself up by the bootstraps because no one does everything alone. I would not be the person I am if not for the other people like my mother, grandmother, father, and teachers who encourage me. I am believer in if you see talented people, then it is my responsibility to help that person hone in that talent because it better for the society at large. In order for you to have business, you need that first customer or else do not have a business. Everything is interconnected individually and society.
I even have a relationship with the individuals writing comments on Field's blog even if I do not physically meet anyone for I know that you exist. I know you have intellect and passionate about the topic you are writing. Blogging is another way of communicating with a larger community, but we cannot forget about the physical one. Do I believe, we need to build relationships with our neighbors for a better community? Yes i do. Should another child go to school with a cup of noodles in his or her as breakfast, and just ignore and not believe that it's my problem? No. There is no question that as Ghandi said be the change you want to see in the world, and I completely agree with that statement. Individuals in this society can get easier caught in their own problems, and not notice the problems of others and they may bigger larger problems than I. However, we are not like parents of the 60s and even 70s who helped their neighbors with giving them a rent party, asking someone to take up a collection for someone who has lost a family member. I know it's still within the black community to reach out to one another. Unfortunately, with integration, we did lose that. There is no question about it. We have become a part of materialism of the American society, and I do not like because people have lost their personal morally along the way. However, is not part of the bigger picture as well?
Field,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the nod!!! Damn, you were hard on the brotha! Like dmd, I found Constructive Feedback's comments a refreshing counter-point that was both informative and thought-provoking, though a might more capitalist than my own - after all, he who dies with the most "toys" still dies.
Like you though, he seems a strong brotha with strong opinions who, most importantly, critically thinks. And for my money, I'll take a thinking person over sheep anyday - whether I agree with them or not.
As for whether or not the "O" man will survive this, we'll find out come PA primary day. I really believe that will be the litmus test for his survival in the remaining primaries and the general, if he gets the nomination.
Constructive Feedback has been banned from most other african america forums and blogs; he has no other place to go to spread his nonsense.
ReplyDeleteField, Obama won the whitest state in the nation (Maine, in case you wonder). It's not small town folk he's having trouble with...
ReplyDeleteIt's Appalachia -- people who have never been served well by government, and who are sick of being sold bullshit every few years.
It may be putting the cart before the horse, but they want results FIRST, votes later.
"Constructive Feedback has been banned from most other african america forums and blogs; he has no other place to go to spread his nonsense"
ReplyDeleteaka lynn, he will never be banned here. That is something I will NEVER do. Now he might stop coming because he can't handle the truth, but if you don't see him anymore, it's not because I banned him, it's because he realized that he can't change my mind with his silly logic and right wing political solutions to our problems.
[quote]Constructive Feedback has been banned from most other african america forums and blogs; he has no other place to go to spread his nonsense.[/quote]
ReplyDelete:lol: :lol: :lol:
Lynn:
Let me ask you a question
Did I get "banned" from AfricanAmerica.org because
1) I violated a SET board policy?
2) I cursed, attacked or harrassed any member?
I got BANNED from that particular "Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive-Fundamentalist Racism Chaser" site because I was the NEGATOR of much of the RHETORIC that they wanted to spout absent a FACT CHECKER.
So let me ask you Lynn - If you said to me "Your great-great-grand father was convicted of RAPING a White woman and then lynched in 1915 South Carolina and thus YOU come from a family of CRIMINALS"..............would an observer of YOUR JUDGMENT upon me be wise to look at the JUDGEMENT rendered against my ancestor.........or the "All White Jury" that rendered it?
MG - (or what ever his name is) was indeed the "All White Jury" who had the power of flipping the switch on MY account on HIS MESSAGE BOARD.
From that point on - I vowed to NEVER use my time in excess to benefit the works of my ideological adversaries. I choose to work on my own works (functionalculture.blogspot.com)
When I do post my views on a blog site that PREACHES "free speech for America and the government" but has a problem following this on their own blog - I make copy of my words on my own blog so they can't delete my views.
If all that fails to pursuade you Lynn - consider that MG or MIB or whatever his name is sees fit to include the White Socialist Richard (?) as a part of his family (and I am not disparaging him because he is White) while he and others have a problem with my views which seek to hold THEM accountable being that they have the POPULAR SENTIMENT in our community and the control over our schools, police forces and homes from which our children come from to EXPECT DIFFERENT OUTCOMES FROM THEM and that which they enforce.
Richard is a Snarling Fox who appeals to their VICTIMIZATION. They prefer to hear someone confirm their inferior status than to DEMAND more from them and tell them how THEIR FLAWED THOUGHTS AND POLICIES contribute its repsective share to the outcome.
Funny how MG couldn't articulate the charges against me EXECPT that he was following the popular sentiment to have me banned.
Now they even close the chatroom from view from those who are not registered. I thought they were into "open societies and government" for inspection by all?
Oh well.