Like I wasn't going to get my two cents in on this debate. So now it seems that one of our great religious leaders here in A-merry-ca, is in an open feud regarding theology with our leading presidential candidate. That would be James Dobson. Mr. "focus on the family" himself. Good old James has taken issue with what the "O" man had to say about the old testament. Seems the two men have a totally different interpretation of the good book.
"I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology,
"... He is dragging biblical understanding through the gutter."
"... He is dragging biblical understanding through the gutter."
Really Reverend? And how do we know that your interpretation is the right one? Personally, I think this entire debate is silly. To me, it's like arguing the historical accuracy of stories in the Harry Potter series. But that's just me.
So there goes the "O" man. He has jumped right into this religious debate. (Hell, he even compared Dobson to Rev. Al. Those are fighting words "O" man) "Folks haven't been reading their Bibles,..." I see you have "O" man, but if you think it's going to get you the evangelical vote I have some news for you. Your advisers should have told you to just leave the religion thing alone. Lord knows it's gotten you in enough hot water. And now I hear that you are going to be reaching out to Christian radio and blogs (I guess I won't be hearing from your campaign anytime soon). "American Values House parties"? Just what the hell will we do there? Listen to Pat Boone Cd's, and bake flag shaped cookies? I don't know "O" man, you might want to reconsider that one.
Say what you will about Mr. Morton, the guy does have a certain agnostic streak about him that I admire. You won't see Mr. Morton in a bible scripture battle with some prominent preacher. Not that he needs to be. Trust me, he is a republican, and dem folks don't vote for Ivy League educated Negroes from the South side of Chicago, for POTUS. They just don't.
So "O" man, leave this battle alone. Ask yourself : wwjd. I bet he would turn the other cheek.
You might want to do the same.
Nice take, field. Homer Simpson said, "What if you're worshiping the wrong one, you're just making God madder every Sunday." or something like that.
ReplyDeleteActually Brother Field this is more serious than you realize. These moral majority types are serious about their fundamentalism.
ReplyDeleteDobson and that ilks Christianity is one wrapped in the US flag and conservatism. This is an opportunity for those who have a liberating view of Christianity( like myself) to expose these folks. They cover their biases and sometimes their bigotry with their religion.
But you are right Obama will not be the one to expose them he is a little too close to their way of thinking.
Field Negro,
ReplyDeleteDo you think that this was a bait for Obama to take so that they can bring up Reverend Wright again?
They're trying to sweat him because he is going after those voters unlike most other Dems who do ignore them. Dobson is one of those types that would have preached that God said enslaving Black people was ok. If Obama gets a significant percentage of the evangelicals it can only help. He is very determined to win this election. Any more carping about Rev. White just looks like persecution at this point.
ReplyDeleteWhite people have just got to be in "Cringe" mode, and what the hell is POTUS ?
ReplyDeleteBarack Obama will be on a coin. A gold coin ! Just like Ceasar was.
POTUS = Pres of the United States
ReplyDeleteIt's a Secret Service Term.
Shouldn't this preacher be out chasing little boys or looking for glory holes in one of those video stores?
ReplyDeleteJeremiah Wright preached a sermon a while ago entiled "Who Would Jesus Vote For?" Well worth the effort of trying to find it.
ReplyDeletePhil
Here's my unimportant point. Dobson is not a minister, he's a psychologist. He runs a "parachurch" organization.
ReplyDeleteThis should not be a surprise.
ReplyDeleteTo gain the golden crown, Obama is going to have to whorishly display himself to the people that matter, ie. THE MAN.
Progressives in the Great Satan have no where else to go, so now Obama has wisely started to 'triangulate'.
If he wins, I predict more bombing. And more. And more.
Every bomb dropped protects a Democratic unionised job.
Dobson needs to go somewhere and sit down. I guess he missed the point in the story of the Pharisees and Sadducees, because he reminds me of them. Yup! He sure does. With his corrupt self. Calling himself a man of the cloth and honoring with his mouth, but his heart is far from him. I guess he'll be asking people to crucify Obama next.
ReplyDeleteI shook my head when I read what Dodson said. Lawd, He should be one to talk. Whelp, like the good book says, if you don't have love, your just a... I've never heard Dobson preach or pray or say anything good about anyone, especially,people of color. Dobson gives religion a bad name. The bible said if at all possible be at peace with all men, especially, those of the household of faith. That would apply to Obama because he does belong to a household of faith. Dobson must have torn that page out of the bible along with a few other pages and replaced them with the flag. The bible also said let your light shine for all to see, his light must have blown a fuse or something or other. Shaking my head.
Preach Granny Preach!!!
ReplyDeleteI dont think Obama's going for the evang vote so much as he's trying to defuse it. It plays into his electoral strategy, & so far, he's done pretty good. He knows Morton can't march them lockstep to the polls the way Frat Boy did two times. Dobson is a fading leader, & I beieve Barack means to demonstrate that & push him out of the game.
ReplyDeleteDumbson wouldn't know GOD even if GOD crawled out of his ass and slapped him in the face.
ReplyDeleteObama's peeling off the evangelicals who aren't fascists and that's pissing off Dumbson.
So I disagree with you on this one, Field. I say he should go full bore and turn Dumbson into a joke. He probably won't get their votes but he will demoralize that base.
I was looking at the sidebar, Don Imus, I wonder if he goes to Dobson's church?
ReplyDeleteI'm just wondering what can be done that Dobson gets exposed ala Ted Haggard-style.
ReplyDeleteIt would have to be a live boy, although he probably couldn't talk his way past "focusing on the family" with a dead hooker, either.
What Dobson wants the GOP to do is overturn Roe v. Wade, end gay rights, ban stem-cell research, and shut down MTV and cancel The Bachelor.
ReplyDeleteDuring the campaign for Bush he joined Ralph Reed, Charles Colson, Karl Rove, and other senior White House officials in regular conference calls. I bet it wasn't because they were prayer partners.
Dobson believes that adolescents suffer from "pre-homosexuality," resulting from having a weak father figure.
On ABC he was asked if he thought Bush would fail the evangelicals. Dobson said, "I'm sure he will fail us. He doesn't dance to our tune."
He campaign against Arlen Spector, because he didn't want him getting the chairmanship of the judiciary committee; because Spector is pro-choice.
My question is why isn't I.R.S. investigating him for political campaigning? Oh, I forgot they only do that to churches that campaign for Democrats.
Anyways, anyone who has regular conference calls with Karl Rove is as crooked as the crooked street in San Francisco.
"I dont think Obama's going for the evang vote so much as he's trying to defuse it. It plays into his electoral strategy, & so far, he's done pretty good."
ReplyDeletebob, that's a good political point. And if that's his strategy it might actually be a good one. But somehow I think it's a little more personal for him. But we will see.
"Here's my unimportant point. Dobson is not a minister, he's a psychologist. He runs a "parachurch" organization."
anon. 1:07AM, that was funny.
"Dumbson". Agent X I might have to steal that name :)
James Dobson is a vehement homophobe.
ReplyDeleteHe bloviates about the success of aversion and conversion therapy to unlearn being gay. Dobson said gay men aren't men and then said gay men like to relieve themselves in front of children.
I would so like to kick his ass and knock his teeth down his throat with my fists. This 6'2", 230lbs. faggot would take great pleasure sending him to the hospital.
~
ReplyDeleteLadies, keep your hands to youself; Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Deut 25
11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:
12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.
`
~
ReplyDeleteIf Dobson is attacking a speech that Obama gave in 2006, then we are a talking Reverend Jeremiah Wright time.
`
There is a very informative article in the latest New yorker about the split among the evangelicals: a newere generation of leaders is breaking away from the hard liners on a variety of issues and promoting a different political stance on such issues as the environment, helping the poor, social justice, etc. It's a fascinating read, and apparently Obama has been appealing to them.
ReplyDeleteFocus on the family indeed.
ReplyDeleteThe joke of it is that before Bush sanctified these so-called religious leaders, the media would not have given them the time of day.
Love the analogy to Harry Potter.
He might tip over the moneychanger's tables...
ReplyDeleteHopefully you're right and this is a diffusing attempt. Still, separation of church and State. It was a fundamental precept that this country was founded on.
Over on my blog we had a discussion about gay marriage and reading the bible. Yeah, reading it. One of my readers opined that many pontificate about the bible, but few have actually read the good book, they just parrot what some yahoo told them. I have to agree. I just wonder when it's all said and done and these pious asses get to the pearly gates...There's the Good Lord in all his glory and these little piss ants start telling him how they did this and that and killed all these enemies in His name and God just looks at them in disbelief and says "What the fuck were you thinking?"
~
ReplyDeleteJob, was often used as a justification for slavery:
According to Job 1:8, Job was cool with God, perfect and upright. Job had slaves, so slavery must have been cool with God.
In Job 1:12 - 22, Job's wealth is taken away; his slaves are killed and his animals are stolen, but left alive.
Job 42:10, God returns to Job twice as much as he had before. Slaves are not explicitly mentioned in Job 42:10 - 17.
The Old Testament condones slavery; the Old Testament condones fornication under certain conditions:
Exodus 20:17, Deuteronomy 5:21, Deuteronomy 15:12-18, Deuteronomy 22:13-22, Deuteronomy 25:11-12, Exodus 21:20-21, Exodus 21:26-27, Exodus 21:1-4, Exodus 21:7, Exodus 21:8, Leviticus 18:19, Leviticus 19:20-22, Leviticus 25:44-46, Leviticus 25:48-53
more here
Dr. James Dobson is not saying that the things mentioned by Kerry and Obama are not in the Holy Bible; but that because of your lack of significant and sufficient brain cells, you need Dobson, et alia, to interpret those verses for you, and then to tell you what they mean.
`
I would so like to kick his ass and knock his teeth down his throat with my fists. This 6'2", 230lbs. faggot would take great pleasure sending him to the hospital.
ReplyDeleteAnd I would be right there helping you load him into the ambulance, Christopher. But, before you do that, while in the midst of getting into that ass, ask Dobson about how he thought men should teach their sons about how their "little arrows" work? He stated in a book on child rearing that a man should show his son his "arrow" in the shower, so the little one wouldn't be so confused about it and wouldn't be encouraged to play with it, either.
In my neighborhood, I believe that's called pedophilia, but it's being done in Jesus' name, so by Dobson's standards, that's okay (ugh).
What Jesus wouldn't do is raise children that would be warped by this shyt. And the IRS can't investigate Dobson, because they are too busy enabling him to get away with politics in the pulpit, instead of preaching about the grace of God.
"The bible also said let your light shine for all to see, his light must have blown a fuse or something or other."
ReplyDeletegranny, you always give me a good laugh, and I agree 100%.
"Obama's peeling off the evangelicals who aren't fascists and that's pissing off Dumbson."
I agree with you, too, agentx.
Religion is looking goofier and goofier as all these clowns, Hagee, Wright, Pfleger, Dobson are exposed for the wingnuts they are.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to the humble servant of God? Sounds like these people want to be media stars and gain glory for themselves rather that preach love and respect.
I'm glad Barack has spoken out about faith. Maybe it will break fundamentalists' hold on the Gospel. They've reduced Christianity to two issues (abortion and Gay Marriage)--two issues Jesus never mentioned in Scripture; and they divert attention and resources from issues like Darfur, poverty, AIDS in Africa, war, the environment. I think Barack will peel away some socially conscious Christians from The Right.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good strategy for O and I think he might be able to peel off some of the younger more progressive thinking evangelicals.
ReplyDeleteDobson expends way too much energy on issues related to homosexuality--could there be some repression here?
Friends have described fw: e-mails they have received from conservative evang. relatives generated by their church. I've not seen one, but they question Obama's faith, among other attacks.
ReplyDeleteThose by themselves likely peel off a lot of evangelicals who aren't fascists -maybe not, lotta peer pressure working in those folks.
Obama stands to gain if he paints himself as the 'good guy' bible-slinger, but he doesn't have to get into the scripture-swapping contest to prove he is a christian. Those get ridiculous, esp. with bible searching software.
quackerjaw has kept me laughing all morning.
He didn't compare Rev Al with Rev Dob--it was more about the idea that these two men have differing interpretations of the Bible and who are we to determine which is more valid and how can we in a nation that supposedly values church and state separation decide policy in terms of theocracy. Clearly, his point was, we cannot.
ReplyDeleteRev. Wright was the pastor of an evangelical church, in a white mainline denomination.
ReplyDeleteNeed I say any more?
There are radical evangelicals just like there are radical everybody elses. But I truly feel the more moderate religious folk are pissed off at what GWB has done. The terry Schiavo debacle showed many of them how out of touch some of the evangelicals are. They have been let down by the far right and are giving Obama a good long look. Quackerjaw is right. Many white evangelicals will vote for Obama. The abortion thing isnt as big an issue as it was 4 or 8 yrs ago.
ReplyDeleteThanks for being such a monumental fuck up GWB. It just might put the O man in the white house.
Whoops--sorry about the really long run on. I just got in an argument with some wingnut about this. I guess my blood was on boil.
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo.
What gets me most about Rev. Dobson and his ilk is this need to act as though a Democratic president is all the sudden going to wave a wand and "all the gays" (to qoute a dummy) will start walking down the aisle and it will be bedlam. First, marriage is a state-level issue. The pres can't do shit unless he manages to pass an amendment (and that is just so easy). They act like the Republicans will keep the status quo--yet their boy Bush hasn't said shit about Gay marriage (not really) since he stole his second term.
They are so full of it.
I really wish people could leave Jesus and religion out of this election. Has everyone forgotten the founders were mostly not Christians but Deists? People like James Dobson are what's wrong with this society. Bigoted, intolerant, anti science, Christian whack jobs. Let's talk about some real issues you know, small stuff like, Peak Oil, crushing debt, wages that barely keep with inflation, a bloated military budget.
ReplyDeletePlease crawl back into your hole of hate Mr. Dobson and take Pat Robertson with you.
Field,
ReplyDeleteI left you my answer about Kingston on your other blog. How I came to stay with this family, though, is I met them through a friend of mine in Chicago, when we traveled there together the first time.
Lawd, the thought of attending one of those folksy "American Values House parties" makes me want to puke. But I got a good laugh over your description. I thought Pat Boone only made records?
There have been some extremely good points made about the O Man jumping into the fray. Fight fire with fire. Why not? He probably knows his Bible just as well as any of them.
And, yes, there is a vast group of Evanglicals who are supporting Barack Obama. Not every Evangelical is a wingnut. Though sometimes it would appear that way. It's just the sqeaky wheels that get the media's attention.
Grannystandingfortruth. I hope when you get to Heaven God will retire St. Peter and give the job to you.
I just got through listening to the O Man's Father's Day speech again. Really I still don't know what all the fuss was about and I don't think he was pandering to the white folks. I still believe he was speaking from the heart and trying to deliver a message to young people to be all that they can be.
Yes, growing up in Hawaii was a whole lot better and different than the South Side of Chicago (and I do know the South Side), but he did have his own struggles as a kid and young man. Fortunately he had a man in the house (his grandfather) and grandfolks are usually better than parents anyway because they've learned from their mistakes with their kids.
~
ReplyDeleteUg - Oh, Dobson, et alia, where yall at?
Child rapists can't be executed,
Supreme Court rules
`
Hey Field,
ReplyDeleteYou better watch it when you say, wwjd. You know, with Bush floating around this Jebbie thing, it might turn into What Would Jebbie Do?
As we like to say here in Philly: Yikes!
In my neighborhood, I believe that's called pedophilia...
ReplyDeleteChristian Progressive Liberal,
Dobson wrote this?
If memory serves, I had no confusion about my plumbing and I certainly didn't need an older male to tell me how it works, thank you very much.
Dobson is a chump. I'd really like to deck him.
I heard and read about James Dobson's concerning Obama's speech from over two years ago. It's been two years, and who really cares. Dobson is egomanic and needs to grab anyone's attenion who cares to listen, and the only people who are listening to him are the ones who follow in him in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI thought what he said about people take interpretations seriously was funny for isn't an interpretation subjective. It is not a fact, and people tend to interpret things based on their experiences and realities.
I have to be honest I really do not like that question what would Jesus do because it's so inane. Jesus dealt with the political machine more than two thousand years ago, and we have no idea what he would have done today. In addition, we do know that Jesus advocated for the downtrodden, but that gets ignore beause it does not fit into our personal agendas. I had a name for James Dobson and his lot, unchristian christians. If you are going to be a christian you should ask themselves why. I am a christian because I want to get something out of it in return, or it's my goal to be a good person?
Barack, you're really beginning to piss me off and this ain't a good thing.
ReplyDeleteMy man is asking his supporters to pay-off the Borg Queen's campaign debt.
My advice to Obama’s supporters is simple: DON’T PAY OFF HILLARY’S CAMPAIGN DEBT.
No one forced to Sen. Clinton to remain in the race after the May 6th, North Carolina Democratic primary, when Barack Obama carried the state by winning 56.30% of the vote. This date marked the end of Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Yet, thanks to Clinton’s Herculean ego, she remained in the race another month, racking up unnecessary debts and now she has the audacity to ask Obama’s supporters to help get her out of the hole?
Sorry, but asking Obama’s supporters to make Hillary Clinton finacially solvent again has nothing to do with party unity — it’s bribery.
Field,
ReplyDeleteI too loved the Harry Potter analagy. I really enjoy reading your blogs. Don't ever stop!
An old white guy in Louisiana.
oh shit! Ralph Nadar just dissed Barack Obama, calling him a House Negro! Right now on Hardball! Can't believe it took a white man to say what most of us Black folks know!
ReplyDeleteBarack is no "House N" (I don't think), No, he's not....(I don't think), err umm...no he's not (read no he's not in a whisper, and as if one is unsure).
ReplyDeleteI wish I would pay that woman's debt. He made a suggestion, not at all mandatory. Although many people will contribute. It has been done before from what I understand.
Christopher:
ReplyDeleteI believe its in one of his books on rearing young boys into adults.
What would really be shocking is that his son, who's as avant-guarde in appearance as he can get, would also be gay.
Chris Rock said it best - we should never be talking about gays, lesbians, child molesters, because there's every likelihood that there's one of them in your family tree. In my family, I think the person got an internal beat down and told never to show their face at family reunions, but, still....
Christian Progressive Liberal,
ReplyDeleteIt just creeps me out that a grown, adult man is telling daddy's to show their son(s) their fuck sticks.
There's a little ole thing called a boundry and Dobson crossed it.
C.R.E.E.P.Y.
Yeah, I'm going to contribute to helping Clinton retire her debt alright. I plan to send her a penny taped on to a note telling her that I owe her $99.99.
ReplyDeleteChristopher, before you give Dodson a knuckle sandwiche, please let granny know in advance, so I can put away your bail money, and sweet talk one of my cousins into representing you. And calm down about Obama asking his supporters to donate to Clinton's debt, because at least he is not saying that he is going to take it out of the money that was already donated to him. I truly agree with you about how she over stayed her stay in the primaries, I was thinking the same thing when the suggestion first came up about helping out of her debt. I feel like she was being vindicative.
About the Nader remark, now, you know it's time for Obama to step up his game when a white man calls him a house negro. It must be getting ready to rain.
Ok...... thought I would never see this.... a website started by Reverand Caldwell, former supporter of Bush called Dobson doesnt speak for me... a coalition of pastors and others supporting Obama.....damn!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/
Maybe the right wing fanatic hold on people of faith speaking out is finally breaking out! I must say, as someone who is not wild about religion, I am impressed with Obama's ability to crack this nut!
On a side note... Ralph Nader has lost his mind.
whitney b I saw that. Sounds like you were in Mountain View or Rolington Town. Both rough hoods, but not quite Rema or Tivoli, which are political strongholds in West Kingston.
ReplyDeleteSounds like you were there before the political violence got really bad. I hope yuou didn't, ahem ahem, smoke too much of our favorite export ;)
elmo, I saw that little Ralph Nadar bit. He needs to quit and get off the stage. I used to admire him too. But now...
And why would you say that the "O" man is a HN? He is a politician. Let's see if after he gets elected he will leave the patio and come join us in the fields :)
Thank you "old white guy" in the boot. I won't stop! And please send me some Community coffee, and budins.
See, that's why I don't go to church. See how much it got Obama into, I keep telling the wife that church is bad for you. Now when I show her this she will begin to beleive me.
ReplyDeleteJusus.
Mr. Field,
ReplyDeleteWell, there was the "field of dreams" as it were. Yes, I guess it was Mountain View, though to the locals it was just home. Nice export, but not as good as African Black, which was a major "hit" in Chicago in the 70's.
Aside from that we need to get back to this religious thing. I was listening to Sirius today and I need to let you all know that the Evangelical Christian white folks (at least the younger of them) are behind the O Man. At least that is what I heard today. Thank you Lord.
Christopher,
ReplyDelete"James Dobson is a vehement homophobe.
He bloviates about the success of aversion and conversion therapy to unlearn being gay. Dobson said gay men aren't men and then said gay men like to relieve themselves in front of children.
I would so like to kick his ass and knock his teeth down his throat with my fists. This 6'2", 230lbs. faggot would take great pleasure sending him to the hospital."
WOW You are so tough beating up old men!!!! Are you going to slap his hands and say QUIT IT? Men like him are why we aren't littered with witches today. Read some history.
szechuanpork:
ReplyDeleteI believe that Christopher was just venting, and not really going to go beat Dobson up.
All this wackaloon cockamamie religious doctrine bullshit has no place in our political discourse. I am with you, Field, in being very disappointed in the O-man for going there.
ReplyDeleteIt is a game he can't win, because at the end of the day, he seems to be restricted by his perception of actual discernable physical reality, while his opponents' religious wackaloonery has absolutely no bounds. He's fighting these deranged wackos with one hand tied behind his back.
Grannystandingfortruth,
ReplyDeleteAs I said, when you get to Heaven, I hope God retires that old man St. Peter. You know how to judge 'em. Keep going woman! We girls need you!
With tons of respect and gratitude,
Whitney Brown
Bush is sealing a deal with the President of Iraq to keep USA military presence on a longtime permanent basis with 50 military base stationed there. Obama's platform stance on the war is being undermined and knocked from under him in a slick way. The private contractors will get no immunity with the Iraqi government either. Dang, Bush does not even protect his own buddies. It's every man for himself as far as Bush is concerned. Whelp, if I were those contractors I'd be heading out of Iraq as soon as possible. They might lose their heads. I hope I'm overreacting. Lawd, I pray that I am. Bush makes me nervous with his no negotiating skills.
ReplyDeleteWhitney b:
ReplyDeleteI don't think I could ever fit St Peter's shoes, but thank you for the compliment. (smile)
Hell, normally I don't post links to my own blog posts, but it sure beats a too-long comment post in this case:
ReplyDeleteHow Would Jesus Vote?
http://holyhell.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/how-would-jesus-vote/
God Doesn't Do Wings
http://holyhell.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/god-doesnt-do-wings/
Szechuanpork:
ReplyDeleteSuck my dick.
Barack definitely needs to turn the other cheek on this one.
ReplyDeleteThe House Negro of The Day is hilarious.