Some comments from my last post is the inspiration for my post tonight.
It seems that a couple of the people commenting took offense, to me, a Jamaican, calling out A-merry-ca on certain issues dealing with the war on drugs; and suggested that if I don't love this country I should leave it. They seemed to be saying that my own country is so fucked up that I should be concentrating my efforts there and that I should leave A-merry-ca alone.
These individuals, who I will call "Border Negroes", because of their Buchananesque love of A-merry-ca and their obvious passion for wanting to protect their borders from outward forces, basically called me out for living in A-merry-ca instead of going back to my own country.
The basic premise of this argument is so ignorant that it's really not worth addressing. I thought of commenting again to the folks making these arguments, but they caught such a verbal smack down from some of the regulars in the fields that I actually felt sorry for them. But still, these folks should understand that human beings regardless of where they are from, should be free to live anywhere they damn well please. And, they should be able to talk about it and agitate for better conditions, if the conditions that they are living under are in any way fucked up. As should the many A-merry-cans living in other countries, including Jamaica.
But there is something going on here on a deeper level which I wish to address. I have gotten into this argument with some of my African A-merry-can friends before. This false belief that they are somehow viewed as real A-merry-cans by others in the majority population just because they were born here, and that they can somehow divorce themselves from their people in the larger world community. This, of course, is bullshit! They can't. But I always get this undercurrent of contempt from some African A-merry-cans for black and brown foreigners in general, and Jamaicans in particular. Often it is based on an erroneous belief that Jamaicans that come to this country are somehow taking something away from the born A-merry-can. Something that should be theirs by birthright. As if the folks in the majority population are going to just give them shit.
To be fair, some of the resentment might be justified. Especially when it comes to older West Indians with their British colonial indoctrination (Jamaica gained independence in 1962), and their willingness to believe the majority population's lies about their A-merry-can brothers and sisters. I caught hell from my aunts when they realized Mrs. Field was A-merry-can. "Wat bway, yu couldn't fine a nice Jamacain gurl fi marry?" So they are victims of that cycle of ignorance themselves, just like the black folks who think that black and brown people who come here from other countries are their enemies. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Tell that shit to the hard working immigrants of color in places like New York, Miami, Los Angeles, and Toronto. People who are working hard, paying taxes, and contributing to the general welfare of their neighborhoods and their communities.
It's these "Border Negroes" that get pissed off at our brown brothers from south of the border when they come here to find work. "But field they are taking the jobs that black people want, they are diluting our voting power, drying up our resources for things like proper health care etc. Of course that's all bull shit. Talking points trotted out by the closed border crowd to scare the rest of the country so that they can push their own racist political agenda. These poor hard working people are not taking jobs from anybody. Because guess what? No one else will take the jobs that they are doing. So spare me that bullshit fear mongering line. And when they work hard and get a check, these people usually send their money home to their families to help build up the economy in their own country. That's a win win for everybody.
Yes I was born in Jamaica, and I am damn proud of it. But I could just as well have been born in New Orleans, Memphis, Atlanta, New York, Miami, or Detroit. It doesn't matter to me. All being born in Jamaica means is that my ancestors got off the boat a little sooner than yours did.
I love every thing my A-merry-can brothers and sisters gave me. I love Coltrane and Jazz, Muddy and the blues, and Charles Alston and his art. I am glad for King, Malcolm, Baldwin, the grace of Ashe, the courage of Ali, the Harlem Renaissance, Lark Voorhies, and I could go on and on. But I hope you are glad for Marcus Garvey, Bob Marley, Jerk food, Red Stripe Beer, reggae music, Claude McKay, The Harder They Come, the best collie weed this side of Northern Mexico, and all the other cultural contributions that Jamaicans ( just like my A-merry-can brothers and sisters) have made to their race.
If you are not glad for those things, and if you still view yourself as the quintessential Border Negro....how do I say this? Fuck you!
And I'm not sure if people got the memo, but immigrants tend to create more jobs, not take them away. Plus, the influx of immigrants has actually helped these rich propogandists to cultivate a sense of immigrant ostracization. In other words, the bosses that complain about immigrants and vote for people who want them out of the country benefit tremendously from their influx, but they trumpet all that propaganda because the working man fighting against each other ... kinda like throwing 1 dollar bills to a crowd of hungry people ...
ReplyDeleteThese people will probably just blame the ones with sneakers on instead of shoes. :: rolls eyes::
Field,
ReplyDeleteI can't believe you dedicated a whole post to ignorant mf's that disagree with you. Come on man! Everyone that reads your blog knows that your shit is right on point. For those that disagree, well, you know the saying... If the shoe fits....
Don't change a thing man. It's because of you that I had the courage to start my own blog.Yours is the kind of voice that people need to hear. You remind us all that just because we might have decent lives over here, we are still not considered equal by the powers that be. Some of us need that slap in the face every now and then. So keep dropping that real shit man. And for those that don't like what you say, Like you said... FUCK EM!
Field,
ReplyDeleteAs you said, unless you're Native American, you're playing a losing battle with this whole 'I'm more American than you' rubbish. I thought it was just disgusting that they even brought up that Jamaican attack. The whole back and forth in the last discussion devolved into an unfortunate barrage of personal smears and useless generalizations.
As for immigration, the way it is debated in the MSM is completely distorted to appeal to the extremes. I vehemently condemn any attempts to racialize the issue. That is not to say we should let the racist attacks go unanswered, but I wish there was more discussion about what really drives the phenomenon--economics.
You said, "these people usually send their money home to their families to help build up the economy in their own country. That's a win win for everybody."
Is it a win win? I used to hold that position, but I've come around to a different one.
The people that come here undergo a social cost--they have to leave their families, their culture, and their homeland. This is not an easy decision to make.
They also undergo a political cost--they cannot vote here, and they cannot vote at home.
U.S. foreign policy in Latin America for the past 100 years has largely been guided by economics; that is, making sure US corporations consolidate all the wealth in these countries. This is most readily done when you put pro-corporate people in power. This can be done by force, as with Pinochet. Or support for attempted coups (as with Venezuela bogeyman Hugo Chavez, in 2002). But also by psychological anti-socialist campaigns, rigging elections, and supporting pro-corporate leaders. Now, in the most recent Mexican election, the pro-corporate America candidate, Calderon narrowly defeated the pro-labor Lopez Obrador.
What am I getting at? The millions of Mexicans that would have made the difference in that election for the regular people are here. So, illegal immigration is also tool for disenfranchisement to ensure pro-American business interests and consolidate the wealth of those countries in the hands of a few. Big deal, you say? When foreign interests control the wealth, land, and government and means of production, they control the country. It’s economic imperialism/neocolonialism. (It stretches even farther back then the Calderon election. Bush I and Clinton orchestrated the pro-corporate NAFTA agreement. Farmland is disappearing from individuals’ hands. And, no, they’re not getting nice cushy payouts for it. It hasn’t meant an economic boom—that’s why they’re coming here.)
So there is a very significant loss, even if in the short term, it appears they are injecting more money into their economies. The political cost probably is not as immediately salient to everyday immigrant, but the current economic regime is just a way of buying their votes.
The economic libertarian position embraces the notion of no borders, because it "makes the pie bigger for all of us". Um, it makes the pie bigger, but why are American wages stagnant or dropping even adjusted for inflation as the economy continues to grow. It's because of the downward pressure on wages from kids making stuff in India and China, as well as immigrants in America. But, many argue, we get cheaper goods. Yes, sometimes with lead. And we also become indebted to China. A debt our children will have to pay them for their entire lives. And we see millions of Americans struggle: we have seen American businesses flee, middle aged Americans being left without jobs and forced to get in huge employment lines at Wal-Mart and younger Americans forced to work low paying service sector jobs even with their higher educations.
But these are “jobs we don't want.”
I also don't believe this anymore. Not when I see 40 year olds flipping burgers for $8 an hour. If immigrant employers have to hire American workers, they’ll pay more if they want to keep their business running, and they can’t abuse them because they aren’t afraid to complain.
So the real debate on immigration never gets told. But that's why the racist Republicans don't imprison the brown people en masse. It's not that they wouldn’t like to. It's because it's profitable for them. And it further weakens the economic and political power of the lower and middle classes across the world and here in good old A-merry-ca.
...sorry for the long post, i am interested to hear people's rebuttals, though...
ReplyDeleteaka Liberal Journal Man
The solution for undocumented Mexicans and Ja-merry-makers are stronger economies of Mexico and Jamaica. (See the political platform of Bill Richardson, the Latino presidential candidate.)
ReplyDeleteI do wonder how much further along Jamaican would be had these highly-educated, over-achieving--Garveys and Marleys just stayed home--and not allowed to "jump the pond" into America.
(Of course, I could never support a policy that would exclude undocumented Mexicans and Ja-merry-makers but allow undocumented Europeans and Canadians to remain.)
I agree with Nelson M that it is myth that there is a reservoir of jobs Americans--especially African Americans--refuse to accept.
My God, African Americans regularly clamour for the $.50 - $1 jobs in prison. I also think that the recent massacre in Nebraska by a guy allegedly distraught over the lost of his McDonald's job speak strongly against this. And, finally, I believe that every job would be attractive to any America at the right wage.
The observation that there are these leftover gigs in America is just propaganda of low-wage employers and corrupt foreign governments.
Finally, I think immigrants and undocumented workers missed the complaint of many when they argue that "they're good, tax paying people." For many, the question is not the question of an immigrant's character. It is a question of legality.
It does not make quick sense to me that immigrants always offer a net gain for America. If immigrants offer more than they get, I don't know why they would be here.
BTW field I would never have known you were foreign born. Your blog says you care deeply about the blacks born here too.
ReplyDeleteWho sets the trade rules in the world? Rich and powerful nations of course. So what are we to do when the west can easily dump cheap subsidized goods into our markets? Nothing of course. They buy our commodities for very cheap and we can''t even afford the processed goods. What do you think drives an economy.
Negative media stereotypes depict Africans for e.g. as hopeless violent beggars. So who in their right mind is going to invest in such a country. BTW I am not blaming all our problems on the west but clearly it is not a level playing field.
Then you blame us for jumping the fence to feed our families. We are only human. I will be damned if I sat around and watched my kids starve and or lead miserable lives when I could jump a fence- electric or stone- to make their lives better.
Who benefits the most from cheap migrant labor? Corporate America of course! I doubt that many Americans would want to work in the fields picking agricultural products with no protective equipment. The govt knows the migrants are here but they won't do much because corporate american runs the show.
hey peeps! much less convulsive in this post than on the one before. i was listening to npr/pri today, and caught a snippet about border towns on this side of the border. the major issue was the fact that THEY don't understand what all the anti-immigration hoopla is all about. THEY think building the wall is a dc bullshit campaign to hoodwink the masses into thinking something's actually getting done. easy to distract people. makes it easy for people (i won't mention any names from yesterday's comments) to say shit like 'if you have the temerity to exercise your right to free speech and you actually use it to critisize the status quo, then you should go the hell back to wherever you're from.' again, just take a moment to look into how the people in border towns feel about the wall. btw august, i feel you on driving in nairobi!
ReplyDeleteI'm against illegal immigration. Latinos don't like Blacks. In Los Angelos a Mexican gang was busted for targeting innocent Blacks. Every year there are less Blacks in baseball and more Latinos. Illegal immigration isn't good for us.
ReplyDeleteWow. I'll give you the fact that some Latinos hate blacks, but the fact of the matter is that some BLACKS hate Blacks... A Mexican GANG was busted for targeting innocent Blacks... when could we ever use a gang to represent a whole ethnic group? If you think that there are less Blacks in baseball every year, you should reconsider your definition of black. These are Black Latinos, and should be viewed as your brothers. If you really want to figure out why there are less African Americans in baseball every year, check to see how many baseball fields there are in African American neighborhoods. Next question... why is it that all immigrants are assumed to be illegal? Stop hatin'.
ReplyDelete~
ReplyDeleteLatino?, Black?
You be the judge.
`
nelson m, and raven, you ,make some interesting economic points in arguing against more open borderes, but I have to disagree. I understand that it is a matter of geography, but immigrants do take certain jobs that A-merry-cans don't want. It may not be the case in California and the Midwest, but it is certainly the case here on the East Coast. I don't see any people (black or white) doing the jobs that these folks do. Sorry, that's a fact!
ReplyDeleteI agree with baatin and august, that it's corporations that drive this phenomena; and it's coporations that helped to destroy many of these Third World countries in the first place.
I get very concerned when I hear brothers and sisters in this country buying into divisive border politics. So there are a couple of incidents of blackk and lations fighting in L.A. So what? How does that prove anything? A few idiots (who are probably A-merry-can citizens) decide to join gangs and fight black gangs. They hardly represent the hard working immigrant class in this country.
It's funny how we all love to go to Wal-Mart, Target, and all these other discount stores. Yet we cry about immigrants driving down the wages. It's not the immigrant, it's every one that wants to save a few pennies on a shirt or some pants.
dirty red, trust me, this post wasn't even about that idiot. It's actually something that I wanted to post about for awhile now. I also saw the George Clooney film about Darfur on HBO last night, and it made me think of that exchange I linked with Cobb back in 2006.
They take jobs Americans don't want? I hate when people say this. Being Black it is hard enough to get a job in the first place and you are telling me that they wouldn't jump at the opportunity to have one of these "undesirable jobs" if it meant that it would put food on the table and a roof over their heads? You don't see Black or White people with these jobs because the illegals have already taken them.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who knows Jamaicans knows that their most beloved sport is not soccer, or cricket. The most popular sport in Jamaica is arguing about something, and it is a pleasure for me, Rasta, to find it done so well here.
ReplyDeleteI was going to stay out of the "go back" discussion, but then I thought you may mention to the border patrol that the reason the foreign born cannot be elected U.S. president is that the men who wrote the Constitution hated Alexander Hamilton (born on Nevis) SO MUCH they fixed that rule just for him.
But funny enough, the only "founding father" who would now recognize, and approve of, the current Central Bank, Strong Executive, Fuck the Plebes system we have now, the one whose ideas are still the most in play on Wall Street, is. . . Alexander Hamilton.
Why in the world do we keep blaming the low guys on the totem pole? Taking jobs we don't want...? Not really true but not really their fault either. How about employers making out like bandits because they are able to pay less in wages and ZERO benefits, like insurance. I've seen it up close. After Katrina, the hotel where I worked hired an all new staff (in housekeeping) of "illegals" who worked as contract workers without any benefits and for less per hour than the Black women who had held those jobs previously. Is is the fault of the "illegals"?
ReplyDeleteNO!
Blame big business.
X
The unfortunate truth is that for African Americans immigrants just don't add value. They add burdens. And if African Americans were to do as every other group in America does and pursue their own self interest, they would not support--and, indeed, actively lobby against immigration.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason African Americans don't actively pursue an anti-immigration policy is their native generousity--a generousity, btw, no immigrant group has ever extended to them.
Most immigrant groups--including those "of color"--enter America hoping to step over and above African Americans--and Indidans for that matter. They all aspire to be white--and would stake that claim without apolgies to black people--if white people would accept them and treat them well.
Identification with blacks--or black solidarity--for most immigrants is a secondary, default position.
And this delay in the blackanization of this would-be white immigrant of color is not without cost to the African American. During their struggle to become white, they readily assume positions as more palatable black-standins and support in this way--and ideologically white supremacy.
Ja-merry-makers, without the indoctrination of Black American consciousness, are their England-residing counterparts.
Sixty-severty percent of these British Ja-merry-makers proudly--and boastfully marry outside f their "race" in England--even higher than their disporportionate intermarrying rates in the U.S.
Ja-merry-maker-land is a tourist paradise--with all the downsides of that--including and most notably the painful, desparate hanging on by Ja-merry-makers of white tourists--male and female.
How could that be an inculcated cultrual practice that African Americans would want to readily incorporate? African Americans has its dysfunction but that one at least we'll pretty much gotten passed.
FN: "But I hope you are glad for Marcus Garvey, Bob Marley, Jerk food, Red Stripe Beer, reggae music, Claude McKay, The Harder They Come,..."
ReplyDeleteYeah Field I am glad and your point about US born blacks is well taken. I grew up in Texas around Mexicans and Salvadoreans and I have an African husband. Nelson M. really articulates the struggle immigrants face.
After reading Perkins' book Confessions of an Economic Hitman and articles and books by Greg Palast I began to understand that the forces driving immigrants all over the world to flee their countries for better lives abroad reside right here with US business and government interest...period.
It's the relentless pursuit of economic growth which Perkins [rightly points out] that leads to the urgent migration of peoples all over this planet. Mexicans in America, Algerians/Morrocans in France, Indonesians/Filipinos in Dubai and Saudi Arabia it's all the same folks.
Nelson M: "The people that come here undergo a social cost--they have to leave their families, their culture, and their homeland. This is not an easy decision to make.
They also undergo a political cost--they cannot vote here, and they cannot vote at home."
Nelson M this point is most poignant...and we should flesh this out some more.
Ravenravings: "Most immigrant groups--including those "of color"--enter America hoping to step over and above African Americans--and Indidans for that matter. They all aspire to be white--and would stake that claim without apolgies to black people--if white people would accept them and treat them well."
ReplyDeleteThis statement is quite puzzling. I would hazard that many immigrant groups have no aspirations to be "white" but rather "aspire" to the same level of progress, stature and possibly power. I mean you really think Indians [from India], West Africans and Jamaicans aspire to whiteness? And considering that many of them are blacker than black [appearance] you believe that they think they could ever be seen as anything close to white?
I must also point out that many immigrants in the US congregate with other immigrants from their own country. They don't necessarily move to the areas of town where majority White people live but they will engage White people in business/commerce. Think Chinatown, Little Saigon, Little Ethiopia, Little Havana etc.
Your sentiments provide evidence that the divide and conquer strategy is still working some four hundred years after it was first successfully employed.
OT.
ReplyDeleteCalling Oprah a mammy is profoundly offensive to this black woman. I'm not even a fan of Oprah's, I don't watch her show, but I respect what she's built for herself and I certainly respect the way she's conducted her life. She's not been arrested, shot, addicted to drugs, or stopped for DUI, so I guess that makes her an inauthentic black woman. What she has done is try to help other people. Why is it that a black successful woman must put up with such degrading insults?
"Sixty-severty percent of these British Ja-merry-makers proudly--and boastfully marry outside f their "race" in England--even higher than their disporportionate intermarrying rates in the U.S."
ReplyDeleteLink please!
Sorry, I know quite a few Jacans in England and in this country, and I don't know of any that married outside of their race. In fact, quite a few married other blacks from this country, and other countries where they live. (Yours truly included) I think you are having a problem seperating African Jamaicans with Jamaicans from other racial groups. In Jamaica there are many Chinese, Indians, and whites who were born and raised as Jamaicans on the island. Those individuals do marry people in similar racial groups when they leave to go to other countries.
So come one now, don't just throw shit out there and hope it sticks. Sometimes it helps to let the facts get in the way of a good argument.
"Ja-merry-makers, without the indoctrination of Black American consciousness, are their England-residing counterparts."
Really? You mean like the indoctrination Marcus got when he was sold out by an undercover FBI agent?
FYI, there are some very conscious black folks in England. My African A-merry-can brothers by no means have a corner on consciousness.
Tyrone Downie himself told me that in the early days of touring with Bob, when they were in North America he would have to strain to see a few brothers and sisters in the crowd. Those huge stadiums and arenas they played to in the early days were filled with white folks, not those "conscious" people you are talking about. I wonder where they were then? And where and who are they now? The poli-trick-sters? The house Negroes who are always defending all things "Charlie" and A-merry-ca? The folks who are always busy pursuing "happyness" while their neighborhoods go to hell in a hand basket? Those conscious Negroes?
Please!
I was going to stay out of this whole "taking jobs that Americans don't want" debate, but I have to jump in.
ReplyDeleteI am torn about this whole imigration thing. All of my moms sisters and their daughters are either married or dating an "illegal". All of them are hard working men that love and support my Aunties and cousins. On the other hand, I lived in San Antonio for a while after I got out of the Army, and I hated it. That is the most racist city I have ever been too. When I say racist, I mean brown vs black racist, not the "normal" white vs black racist. Mexicans look at blacks down there like we are invading Their country. They look at us like we don't belong down there. Living down there for a year and a half opened my eyes to a whole new form of racism. I never seen a hispanic person as being hispanic until I moved down there.I considered them as being just like me, a black man in a white man's land. Growing up back east, Hispanics and blacks were like brothers. (Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Brazilians.) We played together, went to school together, ate together, and lived together. These are the only gruops of people that can say the world "nigga" as much as blacks and get away with it. But Mexicans, on the other hand are different. I am not going to get into that right now, but trust me, there is a difference.
Now as for taking the jobs we don't want, that is bullshit. It is not the jobs we don't want, it is the pay. There is no job in the world that a black man, white man or asian man will not do if the pay is right. Mexicans are the only people that I know that will do all the shit jobs for 5 or 6 dollars a hour. I know I could not afford the lifestyle I have grown accustomed to if I were making that. And that is the problem. Our life styles demands that we make more money in order to keep up with our life style. We cannot blame anyone else for wanting to live like we do. I cannot blame any man that wants to make a better way of life for his family. And as long as our government is addicted to cheap labor, it will be like that. I just wish that our government would stop catering to these people. I know good and damn well if I could not speak Spanish, I would not be able to go to Mexico illegally and get a job as a street sweeper.I damn sure would not be allowed to protest in the streets of Mexico and demand to be treated the same as a naturlized citizen. I would be arrested and shot from a cannon right back here to AmeriKKKa. America is the only country that tries to force it's constitution down the throats of other countrys. That is the problem.
With appropriate regard for raggae, attendance at raggae concerts then or now cannot be the measure of black consciousness. Some of us may just have a low tolerance for that every-third beat sound.
ReplyDeleteAbout a link for comparative international marrying rates, I received this in alecture of Prof. Pat Williams, African American law professor and Nation (the periodical) columnist. (I don't have time now to search for her sources.) Also, all my Jamaican and Ja-American friends are either married to whites and/or have siblings married to whites. Some of these have sibings and other relatives in the UK, who are also married to whites.
But--you're right, FN--I exaggerate the numbers some--but the contrast is still very stark between the intermarrying rates of Afro-British and African Americans. I also believe that if the intermarrying statistics were ever disagreggated among "African Americans" by ehnicity/native nationality, Jamaicans would lead the pack.
Field, Field, Field:
ReplyDeleteThe ones hollering about how immigrants are taking away the jobs know damned well that if the employer were giving those jobs away, they would refuse to get in line.
If you catch hell like the average American, dammit, that makes you AMERICAN. This whole nation was made of up immigrants, but guess who were here first, and are true Americans?
The American Indian and the Mexican. They were here FIRST, and those from England came and ran them off their land. Mexico is 1/3 of its original size - the Louisiana Purchase virtually wiped out most Native American tribes and relegated those who survived to reservations.
My ancestors fought for this bitch in the Civil War, WWI and WWII, the Korean Conflict and Vietnam. So anyone wanting to say you're not an American, Field, can Piss off, because my ancestors fought for you to have to right to call America HOME.
"My ancestors fought for this bitch in the Civil War, WWI and WWII, the Korean Conflict and Vietnam. So anyone wanting to say you're not an American, Field, can Piss off, because my ancestors fought for you to have to right to call America HOME."
ReplyDeletegee thanks christ.prog. and Mrs. Field thanks you too, because her other half would have to go home :)
dirty red. interesting point about your experience in Texas with the Mexican population.I must confess that I have never lived Texas for any length of time, so I can't speak to that issue. I know that here on the East Coast it's all love between the Ricans, and my peeps from the DR. In South Florida, howevwer, I get a different vibe. Maybe it's me, but Cuban A-merry-cans for the most part (not all) seem to have some issues with us. I think that is because most of them are of the whiter persuasion, and belonged to the privileged class when they were back in Cuba.
I'm sure the reason people tell you to leave if you don't like things is because you don't like the things that the people telling you to leave do.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, when conservatives win an election by a 50.1 to 49.9 "majority" -- or anyone for that matter, it tends to make the winners a bit nervous. The solution of course is to encourage all dissenters to leave.
Destruction of the White Family Breeds White Youth Thug Mall Killers
ReplyDeleteI was born in the United States, but my grandparents on one side came from Jamaica, so I'm at least half Jamaican.
When people tell you to "go back where you came from," be it Africa or Jamaica, It's childish idiocy. It's an attempted put-down based on color, pure and simple.
My wife tells me that in Brazil there are a number of deeply offensive expressions - comebacks - used to refer negatively to whites based on their color, like "peeled roach", "plucked chicken" and "macaroni with no sauce." It is now illegal to say these expressions to whites in Brazil just as it is illegal to say similarly offensive expressions to Blacks in Brazil.
And yet, particularly before the law that made the use of this invective illegal, these expressions gave Blacks some rhetorical armor and ammunition in their fight against whites' color-based expressions.
It strikes me that when whites in the United States tell us to "go back to Africa", we are left speechless, to rely on intellectual explanations of why their remarks are baseless, but without having any comeback insults that acknowledge and respond to the insults for what they are: simply childish and mindless insults whose emotional impact is far more important than their historical vacuousness.
Although I'm not going to suggest any particular comeback here, the Brazilian insults are an example of emotionally effective counter-attacks rather than ineffectual intellectually-based defenses. Because the attackers are not looking to be educated, but only to trade vacuous insults.
I'm not advocating this approach but only taking note of it.
Yes Field you could “just as well have been born in New Orleans, Memphis, Atlanta, New York, Miami, or Detroit” but you weren’t. You are an “ a MERRY can” by choice and not by birth. I think the question those of us who were born here have is that if living in America is so problematic for you, why don’t you just chose to live someplace else?
ReplyDeleteThis perspective doesn’t have anything to do with protecting our borders from those who are willing to risk their lives and freedom to get here.
Jesus, Anonymous-- do you really think A-merry-ca is f*ckin' perfect?
ReplyDeleteSeriously.
Because if there's something about this country that you find less-than-optimal, wtf makes you think anyone else (whether born here or not) can see it?
Or are you the kind of fool who rejects the truth because of who it comes from?
Renko
I'm African American, descendant from domestic slavery. I don't believe that my ancestors who fought in the various wars were fighting for the right of racist immigrants to stay in the U.S.
ReplyDeleteI hope that they were pursuing a more self-focused agenda. Otherwise, I would question their love of self.
By the way, East Indians desire to be white even in India. India maintains a color-coated caste system.
"I'm African American, descendant from domestic slavery..."
ReplyDeleteWhat the f**k is "domestic slavery"? Because the last time i checked there were slaves all over the Western Hemisphere, and it didn't matter to your massa whether your black ass was picking cotton or sugarcane.
But OK, you get a gold star because your ancestor's slaves ships landed in Jamestown and not Port Royal, and your peeps helped to free the slaves by fighting in the uncivil war. Good for you!
"I think the question those of us who were born here have is that if living in America is so problematic for you, why don’t you just chose to live someplace else?"
I have lived in other places, and I am sure before this journey of life is all over, I will be living in other places again. Soooo......your point is?
"BTW field I would never have known you were foreign born. Your blog says you care deeply about the blacks born here too."
ReplyDeleteI'm with August here. I wouldn't have known that you're Jamaican. Nor would my friends.
I go to a cafe on Sunday and hang out with anywhere from 10-25 brothas. We solve the world's problems before the Minnesota Vikings game starts at noon. Most are African Americans but some are Jamaican and a few Somali. And most bring their computers.
So, when I told them about your blog, field, they went to it right away. The African Americans, who are mostly successful professionals(teachers and lawyers) and working class field negroes (janitors, bus drivers, etc.), many of whom still live in the central city, generally loved it. But the Jamicans and Somalis (teachers and students who attend the universities around Minneapolis and who live in white suburbs surrounding Minneapolis), said they hated it; and they accused you of being an apologists for gangbangers, especially when you talked about Biggie and began interpreting hip hop. They accused you of being a lawyer who supports thugs who deal drugs and women who get pregnant just to get on welfare. They said your time would be better served advising "his people" to go to school and get a job. Obviously, they think you're an African American.
So, while the Jamaicans and Somalis accuse you of being an apologist for gangbangers, the African Americans accuse them of being apologists for Bill Cosby, whom they feel has abandoned the black poor and just about lost his fricking mind.
field, all will be surprised when I tell them that you're not some old hip hopping, drug dealing black dude born and raised in some inner-city project but a Jamaican who hooked up with a fine Sistah in the diaspora. I can't say for sure, but I suspect the African Americans will just smile but the Jamaicans and Somalis will frown and once again begin their sermon ala Cosby about how "your people" need to lift themselves up by their bootstraps, even if we don't have any.
We'll see. But just to mess with them and, at the same time, school em a little bit, i'm going to write a poem freestyle that pays homage to the field's blog and its connections to black history, in the diaspora and beyond. I'll shoot it to you on your other e-mail. Blessings
Field, you said,
ReplyDelete"immigrants do take certain jobs that A-merry-cans don't want. It may not be the case in California and the Midwest, but it is certainly the case here on the East Coast. I don't see any people (black or white) doing the jobs that these folks do. Sorry, that's a fact!"
Your line of reasoning seems to be if people aren't in those positions right now, it's because they don't want the jobs.
Does this mean that there are few black CEOs because blacks don't want to be CEOs? No, it is a function of individual and structural racism.
The function at play here is wages. I, and the thousands of Americans who line up for low wapying service sector jobs and don't get hired, do migrant labor if it paid $25 an hour.
Another way to look at it is, you have Americans cleaning up bathrooms in WalMart for 7 or 8 dollars an hour. Yet, one of the jobs we supposedly don't want is cleaning hotel rooms. Is this disparity due to some aversion to hotels, or is it that they can pay illegal Latino/Hispanic women, who will never complain to anyone, even less?
Field, Mon: BINGO, have a cigar and keep up the complaining. Why else would you have a blog in A-merry-ca?
ReplyDelete"The function at play here is wages. I, and the thousands of Americans who line up for low wapying service sector jobs and don't get hired, do migrant labor if it paid $25 an hour."
ReplyDeleteNelson M: I agree with you. But I think they'll take anything that approaches a living-wage job, no matter what the work is.
When I worked with black men to help them get jobs, I learned that they had already worked low-paying, temp jobs and were sick of getting nowhere doing it. When I would tell them about 6:50 to 8:00 dollars an hour job, they would always say the same thing: "You got anything that pays $9.00 an hour?" My thinking was: Get this job until you can find something else. Their position was-- been there and done that too many times already.
But some of them would take advantage of the few job training programs I turned them on to.
macdaddy,
ReplyDeleteYour experience highlights the situation perfectly. And I know the $25/hr figure was high. I was just using it for demonstrative purposes.
On a broader level, I think what often happens in the 'jobs we don't want' debate is that the nativists use it to scapegoat immigrants. It's a very natural and humanitarian response to reject this. That doesn't mean the economic principle doesn't still stand, and in the context of all of my remarks, it is clear that I am laying the blame not on the immigrants who find themselves between a rock and a hard place, but rather on a pro-corporate, free market, race to the bottom ideology. This ideology is embraced by our government and the leaders of both parties, and the business interests which support them, which has the effect of gradually harming the lower and middle classes both here and abroad.
As long as I don't get a ' look their nose down on us' from Black immigrants, we're cool. But, if I get that vibe from you, I'm probably going to wind up saying something not-so-nice to you.
ReplyDelete"As long as I don't get a ' look their nose down on us' from Black immigrants, we're cool. But, if I get that vibe from you, I'm probably going to wind up saying something not-so-nice to you."
ReplyDeleteFair point! And I would say it right with you.
LJ, I hear you about the free markets controling the jobs and the prices. But the corporations will tell you that the market dictates what they do. If that's the case, shouldn't some of the very people complaining about the immigrants be responsible consumers?
Surely we can't blame people for wanting to get a better way of life and improve the condition of their families. This is what many immigrants who came to this country from Italy and Poland did back in the day. The only reason these people are catching flak is because they don't llok like the folks in the majority population.
rikyrah, i think you're simplifying something much more complex than black immigrants "look[ing] down their nose at us." i think you're doing the same thing too, macdaddy. i know that you're both speaking directly from personal experience, and quite frankly, i really appreciate it that you both do this. if you asked these black immigrants how the felt about their experience in this country, you might come away with a reason for why they feel like they do. i am not being an apologist for them, but as an example, consider this: we all know that in this country, and even more so in developing countries, celebrity figures and the media coverage they generate shapes in an INCREDIBLY POWEFUL way, how people perceive the world. even to REALLY smart people everywhere, oprah may be thought of to have more relevance than madela. really. and when the diasporah looks at itself, and sees almost every famous black celebrity who goes to africa IMMEDIATELY heading for south africa (think about it: when was the last time jay-z was in tanzania? when chappelle, will smith, tiger woods, oprah, etc. went to africa, which country did they go to?) what does that say to them? obviously this shit carries much more weight than it should, and people should really be smarter about celebrity, but it IS a reality that they shape a lot of perception in the world. dunno any any of this makes sense, but when the diaspora sees famous black people going to the one african country most populated by white people, this might say to them "hm. i guess we seem less valuable to them. that must be how it is over in america." any thoughts on this? is there something authentic here? i hope i captured what i was trying to get at.
ReplyDeleteimigration in america is a race issue. america has more black people than it wants and is not interested in any more, regardless where they come from. can you imagine the fallout if a bunch of boats of afro-caribbeans repopulated new orleans after they just relocated the african americans out of there? we accept imigrants from cuba. but if you are a black cuban you had better call ahead and get permission because they might mistake you for a hatian and sink your boat and let you drown. to be politically correct america lets a few black imigrants in. "but" they will lable you so that white americans know how to treat you and keep you in your place , just a hair about black americans. we know from hollywood that jamacian are international drug lords. nigerians are scam artists. they will trick you out of your money. america uses drug laws and hollywood to control the new black imigrants and teach white people how to treat them. watch the pr for the re-invasion of africa by america and its holocasts it will impose on the continent. many black imigrants distance themselves from black americans because they run the risk of being penalised for associating with or voting with black americans. america still lables them by their home country. another thing black americans should understand is that many of the black imigrants from africa and the caribbean are not plain folks. it's hard to make a connection when the black american is a hard working low income apartment dweller and the imigrant is 3rd gerneration child of a government offical. that is a tough gap bridge for 2 black americans. always remember that the game is divide and conquer. it still works.
ReplyDeleteAsserting that immigrants, people who come here expecting to earn a living and to enjoy freedoms often not afforded in their homeland, somehow hate America is so beyond profoundly retarded it's nearly impossible to describe.
ReplyDeleteSome, maybe a lot, of the illegal immigration hawks are racist, but there are some people against it for (unfounded) fears of terrorists pouring across the border. It makes sense before you realize that's just not happening, and it's probably not going to.
biwtican, brilliantly said. BRILLIANTLY.
ReplyDeleteField, you said,
ReplyDelete"If that's the case, shouldn't some of the very people complaining about the immigrants be responsible consumers?"
You're right, but this is a classic collective action problem. Business interests know this, and that's why they tear down unions as well (because that allows workers to rival the company in bargaining power). Here's my challenge to you: This holiday season, try to buy only gifts you know have been produced by Americans in America. Try to tell Americans not to buy at WalMart, when for many it's the only store that comes close to having everything they need within driving distance. Even if half of all Americans somehow met this daunting challenge, the remaining half is more than enough to keep the current system on its feet.
It just won't happen, so the solution has to come from the top down, not the bottom up. I much more effective solution is to support government leaders which realize this economic reality and confront it by changing the ways we do business.
"Surely we can't blame people for wanting to get a better way of life and improve the condition of their families...The only reason these people are catching flak is because they don't llok like the folks in the majority population."
As I said, they should not be scapegoated. It is the economic policies of our government and our Latin American allies which posits the choice to them:
"You can stay here in GuateMexiCostaRica, we'll take your land, and you'll be broke because we won't give you jobs because it's not the corporate-friendly, free market thing to do OR get a coyote, risk your life, and leave your countries and your families so you can make a few more bucks as we rape your country of its resources."
Surely this is a way of giving them flak as well, no?
I would have been able to guess FN was a Ja-merry-maker from a mile away. But his perspective is nonetheless interesting--though colored too much by the Duboisian referenced other mindedness. This is the common plight of the immigrant that is typically not shed until the third generation.
ReplyDeleteA black immigrant is all too conscious of the other persepctive (the white one.) They simply cannot understand the persepctive of us multiple generation black Americans who really can't care about white perspectives--because we know better than anyone--that white opinion doesn't change. Immigrants have a hard time understanding that white opinion is not based on perceived bad black behavior, or good behavior but by the needs of white supremacy.
Those who have or parents have bought into the American ideal enough to abandon the comfort of their native homes to come to America can't accept this view of white America. Otherwise, they would not be able to move here. No way. That is why conversations with immigrants--as opposed to refugees--about race must be limited about race. Otherwsie their worldview will be shattered.
By best friends and even a godchild is Ja-merry-makers and even they just can't get this.
Ja-merry-makers, especially, are so colored by the continential way they cannot be easy bedfellows until the white man has shown himself to them over generations.
Until then, we will experience--as the accounts here repeated tell--snobbery and dismissive of the "domestic slave."
The experience of the domesticv slave is not just a happenstance of dropoff point but rather a historical experience in this country fighting and dying for freedom here--among the white man. Black immigrants--like all immigrants--step into the freedom that Black Americans fought and died for centuries so dismissively as if it is their right.
The land belonged to the Indians BUT the freedom--the quality of life enjoyed by the ethnic and people of color-- was granted by African Americans.
The framers had no intention of granting freedoms beyond white propertied men. The quest for freedom by African American slaves raised the issue of universal freedoms--and only behind the pressure African Americans applied on this country did this cuntry welcome others.
So, the quality of life that immigrants come here to revel in is paid for with African American blood, suffering, sweat--and we deserve respect for that.
FN doesn't want to offer any. To this, he offers a summary f**k us-although he holds a job and maintains a liberty that black Americans granted him.
I don't think that a request for respect is falling for the divide and conquer strategy.
Wayne...
ReplyDelete"All being born in Jamaica means is that my ancestors got off the boat a little sooner than yours did."
Exactly.
As far as certain pale faces who rule this country is concerned, the are no African-Americans, Jamaicans, Dominicans, Haitians, or Africans. As far as these folks are concerned, there are only Niggers.
We better remember that.
Always.
ravenraving...
ReplyDeleteFN doesn't want to offer any. To this, he offers a summary f**k us-although he holds a job and maintains a liberty that black Americans granted him.
I don't see where he said that. The fact that there are a lot of arrogant-ass Jamaicans over here doesn't change the fact that they always have been an intergral component of the African community over here. Without The Hon. Marcus Garvey, there would have been no Malcom X. Nor, I would argue, would there have been a Martin Luther King.
Without the West Indian brothers who developed Pan-Africanism in the 19th century, there would have been no militant struggle of the 1950's and 1960's that gave us the various voting rights acts.
We over here always influenced West Indian politics and social development, and they influenced ours. Besides, most of us are nothing but West Indian ex-slaves who were further exported to the USA.
We need to keep Niggerish behavior to a minimum and stand together as a global people. Period.
"We need to keep Niggerish behavior to a minimum and stand together as a global people. Period."
ReplyDeleteDamn MF, that shit was prfound!
"So, the quality of life that immigrants come here to revel in is paid for with African American blood, suffering, sweat--and we deserve respect for that.
FN doesn't want to offer any. To this, he offers a summary f**k us-although he holds a job and maintains a liberty that black Americans granted him."
Huh? That black people granted me? The fact that I am free has as much to do with the Maroons in Jamaica who fought British planters as it does the blacks who fought for our freedoms here.
MF is right this narrow ass us vs. them mentality is what's holding black people back on a world wide tip.
BTW, has it ever occurred to you that the quality of life you talk about is something that I enjoyed in my native country as well? I guess not. Since all Jamaicans live in trees and run around in grass skirts ***roll eyes***
Not all Jamaicans who come here are running away from poverty and seeking the good life. Remember that! If you leave New York and move to California, for whatever reason, must we assume the same thing? Of course not. So why do you take that position with Jamaicans that-- for whatever reason-- end up in this country?
FN,
ReplyDeleteForgot to thank you for the sidebar about Flipping Mitt. Black folk must never forget that the man was GROWN, before Black folk could get into heaven as SOMETHING OTHER THAN SLAVES.
Now, the rest of them (the GOP Field) may think of it, but none of the rest of them, were taught, as church DOCTRINE, that Black folk were sub-human.
Come on, now. For that reason alone, I'll never vote for him. And, if that makes me a religious bigot, then so.be.it.
As you said, unless you're Native American, you're playing a losing battle with this whole 'I'm more American than you' rubbish.
ReplyDeleteI sort of disagree. I might get slammed about this, but I believe Black folk are the truest Americans. The Native Americans never really fought FOR America - the FOUGHT America - lost - and were shoved on reservations. But, who actually fought FOR America. FOR America to live up to its promise that it wrote down on those two documents, The Declaration of Independence, and The Constitution. Black folk. And, to be brutal, it's why White folk hate us so - we deny them their delusions about America. We're there to say ' ah ah ah - you're really NOT all that', and it chafes them to no end. But, still, we're here, poking and prodding.
The whole ' nation of immigrants' thing? Does nothing to me. Don't give a rat's ass about it.
ravenravings, sorry that I didn't read your comments first. I would have just co-signed them.
ReplyDeleteSo, the quality of life that immigrants come here to revel in is paid for with African American blood, suffering, sweat--and we deserve respect for that.
ReplyDeleteWhere did these african americans come from originally? Well then if Africans have not paid the price then it is only fair that u stop calling yourself African because if you have truly paid the price then you are just American.
Come on people can we all get along .This is getting exhausting.
"The Native Americans never really fought FOR America - the FOUGHT America - lost - and were shoved on reservations. But, who actually fought FOR America. FOR America to live up to its promise that it wrote down on those two documents, The Declaration of Independence, and The Constitution. Black folk. And, to be brutal, it's why White folk hate us so - we deny them their delusions about America."
ReplyDeleterikyrah: I was thinking the same thingz; That, if any race or ethnic group is American, it's us. But i couldn't quite find the words to experess it. Thank you.
Michael Fisher--
ReplyDeleteWhat's "niggerish" about my post (whatever "niggerish" means?)
FN accused African Americans who critique immigrants as "border negroes." Then, at the end of this post, he declared,
"if you still view yourself as the quintessential Border Negro....how do I say this? Fuck you!"
That's what FN wrote--"F*ck us." How did you miss that?
But that aside, my real offense is that while FN--and most people--easily and regularly critize African Americans and their presumed culture, there is apparent hyper sensitivity about easily and regularly critizing almost every other group--including those who hail from the seriously troubled Ja-merry-maker-land and Mexico.
The offense taken by FN--and you--to my fairly tame comments about Ja-merry-maker-land proves to me that FN apparently thinks of African Americans--who are regularly criticized by him--as less deserving than his Ja-merry-maker kinfolk.
So,
"The Black church ain't sh*t."
"Black leaders/spokespersons ain't sh*t."
"Black women ain't sh*t."
"Black cultural practices ain't shit."
"Black people are regularly violent or just stupid."
And make no mistake about it, when "Black" is used in these criticisms, it is not a reference to an "integrated" black or other culture with which Ja-merry-makers, Mexicans, nor any other people of color identify or take credit for.
The criticism is of me and my people--the multiple generational African American.
But if these others claim ownership of the good, why aren't they bonding with African Americans as "one world" about the bad?
No, African Americans must be the lab rats that everyone is free to examine and criticize. But we can't ever return the favor because--according to FN and pals--we're too ig-'nant and/or just impolite to have critique other people's efforts as they struggle for survival and freedom.
Bullsh*t.
Find my offense "niggerish" if you must, MF, I am offended. I can also be polite. As it is no doubt oft stated on the mean streets of Kingston, "don't start none, won't be none."
Scratch FN, you get a nationalistic Jamaican.
Scratch me, you get multiple generational African American.
I make no apology for it.
Field,
ReplyDeleteDo you feel better now that you have had your ego stroked and wounds licked by your "yes" men and "yes" women that you surround yourself with?
I challenged you. Your response was to call me a name and curse at me. And you are not yet through cursing.
You claim you felt sorry for me b/c your yes men and yes women insulted me, but I never read anything that they directed to me because I was not talking to them. I was talking to you.
I never had to fill in any papers to become a citizen of this country. Your family did. I love my country and have no desire to live any place else.
In your case, you would not dare return to "Cha-may-ka", Mun, because the life you are living here is so much better.
You disagree? Then GO HOME!
"Yes I was born in Jamaica, and I am damn proud of it. But I could just as well have been born in New Orleans, Memphis, Atlanta, New York, Miami, or Detroit. It doesn't matter to me. All being born in Jamaica means is that my ancestors got off the boat a little sooner than yours did."
ReplyDeleteMe thinks my friend raven conveniently missed that paragraph.
Hmmm, what's the line in that old Doobie Brothers song? I think it would be quite apropos here for my Nationalistic A-merry-can brothers and sisters.
"The Native Americans never really fought FOR America - the FOUGHT America - lost - and were shoved on reservations. "
Key word being they FOUGHT A-merry-ca. Sorry, I must have missed the revolution. Because if there was one; please believe that my black ass would have been here fighting it. Regardlesss of where I was born. (Which is more that I can say for some of the so called key pad revolutionaries jumping on this post.) But I don't remember one. Are you talking about the civil rights movement? That revolution? Seems to me that our people were pushed on reservations after that fith too. Some of it physical, and some of it emotional. Think about it ;)
"if you still view yourself as the quintessential Border Negro....how do I say this? Fuck you!"
One more time with feeling!
"The Black church ain't sh*t."
ReplyDeletewrong, I don't think any church is sh*t. It's not personal to the black church.
"I never had to fill in any papers to become a citizen of this country. Your family did. I love my country and have no desire to live any place else."
Tammy, you obviously don't know too much about my family. No one in my family has ever applied for citizenship. (Except for yours truly. Got me there, but I am married to an A-merry-can, and she wouldn't have it any other way. Call me hen pecked) My parents have both lived in Jamaica most of their lives, and worked to make it better. Never had a desire to leave inspite of all the job offers from YOUR country. So that's a pretty lame argument.
"In your case, you would not dare return to "Cha-may-ka", Mun, because the life you are living here is so much better."
Again, you obviously don't know much about me or my family.
Let's just say this; always know about your subject before you start talking shit. Because right about now you are loooking really stupid. I will leave it at that.
"Do you feel better now that you have had your ego stroked and wounds licked by your "yes" men and "yes" women that you surround yourself with?"
Yes I do! But I don't have any wounds ;)
This is all bullshit. Like slaves chained together arguing in the bottom of the slave ship about who is "more arrogant" while Massa on top is having a good laugh.
ReplyDeleteEverybody just shut the f**k up.
"Everybody just shut the f**k up."
ReplyDeleteOK I will take Michael's advise. But one more thing. (Sorry Michael)
Tammy, the people who post here are quite capable of thinking for themselves. Just because they called you on your dumb ass comments doesn't make them MY "yes people". It just makes them capable of knowing bull shit when they see it.
That's it from me Michael.
I think.
ravenravings: 'Black immigrants--like all immigrants--step into the freedom that Black Americans fought and died for centuries so dismissively as if it is their right.'
ReplyDeleteThe fuck? I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this comment. FREEDOM IS EVERYONE'S RIGHT. And it's pretty obvious that not all immigrants are created equal. Think someone coming over here from Switzerland gives a fuck about a Stockley Carmichael? C'mon!
'The land belonged to the Indians BUT the freedom--the quality of life enjoyed by the ethnic and people of color-- was granted by African Americans.'
Again, African Americans fought hard and were persecuted for EQUAL civil rights. Equal to what? Equal to the civil rights enjoyed by the then-majority group. And just to remain true to the facts, the freedoms were granted TO, rather than BY, African Americans.
Ok Field. I would never consider myself a border negro, not by any stretch. I think A-merry-ca is full of shit and I don't believe the so called A-merry-can dream was meant for me to have. That said, I DO absolutely have problems with Mexican illegal immigration. My problems do not lie with the jobs these people are supposedly taking, as I would not do and am way overqualified for those jobs anyway. My problems are: yes, they are a drain on resources, especially in small towns. I'm from a town in Virginia called Manassas and the crime rate has gone up dramatically and the quality of life has dwindled. So much so that the county seat has put a stop to allowing illegals access to resources, not only in my city but, in my county. Police are now asking immigrants for papers when they stop them. I have a problem with illegal immigrants because they move into black neighborhoods, take them over, run blacks out of them by fear, intimidation and killing. This is not happening in my town but, it is happening in California. There are numerous reasons why I do believe the illegal immigration problem is a danger to black Americans but these things I listed are only a few of them. If anyone has a problem with someone like you,who was born in Jamaica and came here legally, they are idiots. YOU are an educated and highly productive member of society, you pay taxes and you are free to comment as you want. If an illegal immigrant said the shit you said, I'd be offended.
ReplyDeleteI have a major problem when immigrants come here, commit crimes against the "native" population, get things that black Americans had to fight centuries for, etc. Any logical person would have an issue with that. I feel as though illegals are another coattail riding group. They HATE black Americans, yet they benefit from our civil rights movement. These feelings do not apply to people like you.
If I owned and operated a thriving business in Ja-merry-maker-land who would dispute that I was benefitting from the infrastructure and strivings of the historical Ja-merry-makers?
ReplyDeleteWhy then is attribution to African Americanas--residents here for 400- 500 years--laughable, even blasphemy? Because of the white supremacist belief that everything in and of America--except the land--- is attributable to the ingenuity and largesse of whites only?
It is odd that the most controversial statements on this site are those CELEBRATING African Americans.
If I extolled the virtues of Raggae--and the influence of Ja-merry-makers-land--the greatest per capita producers of music--on world music, there would be scant disagreement.
But to step away from the white supremacy imposed silence on the contributions made by African Americans is controversial and divisive---the stuff that should not be spoke.
I dare say even if African American attribution were empty proganda, I would expect people on this site to celebrate it--not shut it down.
But--no--nothing is more jolting to the sensibilities of too many of us than the high, unabashed promotion and celebrataion of we historically domestic blacks.
Mules, I guess, are just meant to be worked, not showcased. Leave the preening about hard work, etc. to the Ja-merry-makers.
Finally, again, with feeling--African Americans expanded the nature, availability, reach and stretch of the freedoms in this country both directly (through their demand) and indirectly (reaction against their demand.)
See my blog for additional clarification.
Spot om Mr. Field, old chap!
ReplyDeleteImagine if we weren't country that adopted and assimilated other cultural attributes. We'd be nothing. Absolutely, white bread, nothing.
Werner VonBraun, the greatest technologist who ever lived and the man most responsible for us being the technical power that we once were was an immigrant. Our music that we love the most sure aint born in America by white kids. Our food would be horrible if we'd relied on the original settlers to provide. . . Nobody has ever gone to England for the food.
Hell, there havebeen books written about the contributions and importance of immigrants, but still the numbskulled ignorant proles swallow the bullshit they are fed about the immigrant threat. I agree. . . fuck em. . . and don't touch my enchiladas!
anjanette, I am feeling your analysis, even though I don't agree with much of what you say. Still, you make some good points. I understand your concern about the resources in your community being used up for the illegal immigrant population etc. But again, I think when you balance out the economic impact of the immigrant worker being here, it makes them being here more good than bad in the long run. My problem with this debate is that I think it is based on racial prejudice and nothing else. If these illigals were all coming from Poland or Eastern Europe we wouldn't be hearing shit.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think quite a few businesses would and will go under (see what's happening in Colorado)if the immigrant is not allowed to work on farms etc. If this debate isn't about racial demagoguery why are the people on the closed border side refusing to even consider a "guest worker" program? Most A-merry-cans won't do the work that these people are doing and that's a fact. Forget the educated ones like yourself. I mean even those A-mery-cans without a high school diploma. Trust me I know. I work with inner city kids with 9th and 10th grade educations who refuse to work for less than $10 an hour.
But thanks for your reasoned and logical counter to my artgument. And thanks for not falling into the us vs. them, trap of the "Border Negroes" :)
Sorry Michael.
BTW raven, I might know it already, but give me a link and the name of your blog so that I can check out your rational for your position about the "domestic slave" vs. slaves in general.
Just to remind Sagacious that the English were NOT anywhere near being the original settlers that arrived from Europe. They just were successful in getting you to believe that history.
ReplyDeleteI am absolutely thankful for the contributions that all of my brothers and sisters have made possible from a global perspective. I think that is why the terminology African American doesn't really suit me. It's not that I do not identify with Africa because I do heart, mind, and soul. It's the American part that gets the better of me because it tends to negate the rest of the black folk not born in America, but whom may even reside in American. The term of American is so exclusionary in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAs for the border issue. Many Canadians, like Mexicans run for the border, the only difference is they are what is considered the right color. It's wrong, but it is what it is.
He who fights for freedom anywhere has paid the price to enjoy it everywhere.
ReplyDeleteField said:"But again, I think when you balance out the economic impact of the immigrant worker being here, it makes them being here more good than bad in the long run. My problem with this debate is that I think it is based on racial prejudice and nothing else. If these illigals were all coming from Poland or Eastern Europe we wouldn't be hearing shit."
ReplyDeleteWhen I think about the economic impact of them being here, the good that I see has to do with them taking jobs such as fruit pickers, maids and fast food workers. Low wage jobs that need to get done but, most Americans aren't feeling them because they pay minimum wage. You mentioned the guest worker program. I don't think most logical people would mind that (notice I said logical people). What people like me DO mind is how they come here to "work" the system and believe me, they all seem to understand how to work it. As an illegal immigrant, and even as a guest worker, there's no way they should be "entitled" to the same benefits Americans and legal immigrants get. It's a slap in the face to Americans and the legal immigrant worker. To me, it says you can break the law and still make out like a fat rat. I also do not feel that we hear enough about illegal immigration. It's because the immigrants in question are not black and for all intents and purposes would be considered white when they get here. They add to the white population and end up outnumbering blacks. I think this was part of the plan and that is why the government is doing little to nothing to stop it.
As for the racial prejudice aspect of the equation, I do think this is the case with some people but, it's not the case with me. I don't care if the illegal is Polish, Russian,etc...I would still complain about it. To me, an unskilled worker "stealing" resources,not paying taxes, etc is a drain. I don't care about the racial make up of the individual involved. I know most A-merry-cans don't feel that way. I am all for the guest worker program with some explicit provisions made i.e. what they are and are not entitled to as a "guest" in this country, as well as a set amount of time they can stay here.
The topic of immigration is too sensitive for our already divided community.I will never accept any of the demarked borders of our physical world.They are the result of invasion, pillage,oppression, slavery and genocide.
ReplyDeleteThe elites of this world are having a feast toasting to each other and stealing our wealth(world-natural resources), while folks are arguing over who belongs here or not.I was born in Panama, and I consider the entire Americas(North, Central, South and the Caribbean), along with the African continent my natural homeland.
The Americas do not belong to anyone or national group(ethnic) in particular because this majestic continent was destined to be the home of a diverse population.We all belong here, and there will always be room for everyone in the Americas.This beautiful continent is not Europe.
Field Negro, Your blog is interesting, honest ,refreshing, and sometimes funny.
Saludos.
"The Americas do not belong to anyone or national group(ethnic) in particular because this majestic continent was destined to be the home of a diverse population.We all belong here, and there will always be room for everyone in the Americas.This beautiful continent is not Europe."
ReplyDeleteDamn ana, that's quote worthy!
And thanks for the kind words.
Lol!! Field you are a trip!
ReplyDeleteI notice in the comments there is alot on intermingling of 'illegal immigrants' and just 'immigrant'.
ReplyDeleteI am a legal immigrant who is now a US citizen, and I have a problem with illegal immigrants. The U.S is the only country that am aware of, where you can break the law (i.e enter illegally) and still protest and demand your 'rights', to everything a citizen and legal immigrant gets.
What happened to the legal immigrants who went through the correct channels and waited years go immigrate here.
At the end of the day it is all about money. Bottomline. Most of the money that illegal immigrants make is under the table, and gets sent back to their home countries. It is not taxed like mine, before I can get it. And that right there is a problem.
http://www.handbagsretailers.com/ Replica Handbags
ReplyDeleteFake Handbags
Knockoff Handbags
Replica Louis Vuitton Handbags
Replica Gucci Handbags
Replica Chanel Handbags
Prada Handbags
Replica Fendi Handbags
Replica Dolce Gabbana Handbags
Replica Chloe Handbags
Replica Jimmy Choo Handbags
Replica Thomas Wylde Handbags
Replica MiuMiu Handbags
Replica Balenciaga Handbags
Replica Coach Handbags
Replica Lancel Handbags
Replica Hermes Handbags
Replica Marc Jacobs Handbags
Replica Anya Hindmarch Handbags
Replica YSL Handbags
Replica Mulberry Handbags
Replica Givenchy Handbags
Replica Valentino Handbags
Replica Versace Handbags
Replica Cartier Handbags
Replica Marni Handbags
Replica Bottega Veneta Handbags
Replica Loewe Handbags
Replica Kooba Handbags
Replica Bally Handbags
Replica Burberry Handbags
Replica Christian Dior Handbags
Replica Juicy Couture Handbags
Replica Ferragamo Handbags
Replica Celine Handbags
For information and products relating to height increase or footcare please visit HEELSNCLEAVAGE
ReplyDeleteHEEL LIFT
HEIGHT INCREASE INSOLES
SHOE INSERTS
SHOES INSOLES
BRAS
HEEL PADS
SHOE INSOLE
INCREASE MY HEIGHT
INCREASE YOUR HEIGHT
NIPPLE COVERS
No one is free, even the birds are chained to the sky. See the link below for more info.
ReplyDelete#chained
www.ufgop.org
Hartia event management can do your events,anywhere in India and have already executed events in Delhi,Jaipur Indore, Kochin, Goa etc. Based on your brief, goals, budget we can organize and manage the event for you. We offer our services in Corporate Events, Sporting Events, Special Events,Birthday, Promotions etc.
ReplyDeleteExhibition Setup in Mumbai
Events Management in Mumbai