Saturday, April 29, 2006

It's Not Your House. (The Field Negro Responds To A House Negro's Attacks)


A friend of mine said he was browsing the web when he came across an article by a gentleman named Cobb. The article was posted on a conservative blog known as Booker Rising. Throughout the article, the gentleman took great exception to my views on Darfur. He went on to take some personal shots at me while quoting extensively from my article. Well, I checked it out for myself, and my friend was right. But rather than respond in kind, I will attempt to, once again, state my position on this issue--and especially as it relates to the house Negroes among us and why they think the way they do.


"If the massas house caught on fire the house negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the massa would. "Massa got sick house negro would say :what's the matter boss, we sick? "We sick" he identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself"

Malcolm X

The debate that is now being waged about Sudan is a classic one. On one side of this issue is the intellectual house negro who wants to protect massa's house and his stake in it. He wants nothing to rock the boat or upset the apple cart--nothing that would take him away from such a happy and (in his mind) fulfilling existence. To him, the only thing that matters is keeping the status quo in tact,--thus, insuring he will remain in the house for a long time. This is the crux of the black conservatives position and simply stated, it goes like this: We can and should do nothing in Darfur, because they are Africans and we are Americans; and other than similar pigmentation we have nothing in common.

I subscribe to an opposite school of thought and the other side of the argument. I think it is fair to say that I am in the field negro camp on this issue. His life on the plantation is not so great, and he does not see what belongs to massa as his own. He realizes that his very existence is tied to something larger. He views his race as a collective of all black people and not just those on the particular plantation on which he resides. His position cannot be suncretized with the house negro. The people of Darfur are not on our plantation, but we should care about those other field Negroes and refugees who are going through hell right now. Additionally, we should realize, that but for the grace of our creator we could all be in that same position. Unlike the house negro, we don't see this as their problem, we see it as our own, because we look at them and see ourselves.

Of course this entire field negro, house negro predicament is a very interesting one for most African Americans. It's a constant struggle for identity and a sense of belonging--grasping to achieve that American dream that was not meant for us in the first place. The field negro does a better job of dealing with it because he knows that this is not his dream. This so called melting pot was never meant for him, and he accepts that. The house negro can't juxtapose that position, because after all, things are going so well for him. He absolutely believes he was meant to be a part of the American dream and he belongs in the melting pot.

Nothing could be further from the truth. However, I do understand this is tough for you--the house negro--to deal with. After all, this is the country of your birth; but most of your ancestors wanted no part of it. They were brought here against their will, yet they helped to build it and make it what it is. NOW you want a stake in it if only because of what your ancestors have contributed. But there is a problem.... those in the majority population do not embrace you as one who should be celebrating this great experiment in democracy called America. Unfortunately for you, they consider you to be just a part of the experiment--a kind of human lab rat if you will--whose contribution had nothing to do with the actual research and science that made it successful. When they see the house negro with his social and financial success, they say, ' wow look at all that we have done! Look at how far we brought the negro. We gave him civil rights, and we have made the American dream attainable for him.'

But here is the question most black Americans should ask themselves: Do you really have a stake at the table, and is this great democracy called America your democracy? Does massa fully embrace you as one of his own, or are you just some lab rat that helped to make his experiment a successful one? Individuals of Cobb's ilk would scream in the affirmative; yes I am an American, and yes I have a stake in this pie. So therefore, why should I care what happens to a bunch of Africans in Africa? After all, I am an American now, I have no connection to Africa and Africans. My pie after all is right here. It's the same silly argument many black West Indians use when they came to this country from the various islands. I am American now, and don't you dare call me black American because I am from Jamaica, or Barbados, or fill in the blank. No, your black ass is black, period! Not West Indian, American or whatever you want to call yourself because you want to identify closer with white Americans. That's how they see you, and that's how you should see yourself. To black conservatives who want to turn their backs on Africa, I say, your black ass is African whether you like it or not, and that's how massa sees you, even if you are living in the house with him. When you say, why should I care about a bunch of poor Africans half way across the world? I don't think you realize just how ignorant you sound.

But I will tell you why you should care; just remember that no matter how successful the American experiment seems to be, there is always the possibility of side effects, and the chance that one of the ingredients used in the experiment will have a negative result down the road. Just remember, that the people of Africa and the rest of the world are watching how we treat our brothers and sisters in Dafur, and how much outcry we can generate against the atrocities being committed against our own people. If we act like we don't give a damn about our own, why should anyone else care about them or us for that matter? Don't we realize that when we dehumanize and marginalize these people, we are doing the exact same thing to ourselves? When this is allowed to happen the rest of the world devalues the black life, and there is no separation between you, the house negro, and your refugee brothers and sisters in Africa. It's no accident that thousands of women and children were slaughtered in Rwanda while the world looked away. It's easy to look away when what is being slaughtered has less significance and is less human to you. By the way, those Africans doing the slaughtering suffered from the same self hatred that has manifested itself in this debate.

Anyway my house negro brothers and sisters, you just keep thinking that somehow you will be viewed differently because you are a black American and not a black African. At the end of the day, you will be in for a rude awakening. The Jews know it, and you will never see an American Jew not support Israel one hundred percent. They know that their existence is inextricably linked to that of Israel. We should know that about Africa too, but unfortunately we are too busy trying to impress each other with intellectual mumble jumble, and living comfortably in the house to see it.

Now if you will excuse me, I gotta head down I95. I have a rally to attend.

76 comments:

Asa said...

Damn Man! This dissertation brought a tear to my eye! You speak power to truth mah brothah! I remember I had (key word is "had") a Black female friend who was born and raised in England but of Jamaican heritage. I thought she was cool and enlightened until one day I emailed her an article about some injustice regarding African Americans. She replied in a tirade that she was British and not African American, so she had no interest in what happened with/to them. She said she knew that was my thing but she didn't want any more of my "negative" articles! I was shocked at her attitude. I wrote her back and apologized and said it was my fault sending it to her. One has to know ones audience! Then I deleted her azzzzz from my email list, my phones and off my Christmas card list! Can't roll with an Aunt Jemima!!!!
Peace.
Asa.

ugz said...

Asa:
Greetings. I am UGZ. My credentials span the underground railroad, the soweto anti-apartheid struggle-- and recently the plantations of the cyber space-- I am currently studying the competition between the Anglo Saxon-Nordic pale face and the Slavic pale face-- : )see how we can exploit--

Stay away from theAunt Jemima's. They eat that pancake all day man, they sure do look like masta's wife... _______________________________________
FN:
Wishing you Guidance and invisibility!

ugz said...

FN:

Ever heard Malcolm's speech entitled-
You Can't Hate The Roots of a Tree And Not Hate The Tree

By the way:
What do these cowardly black conservatives think of Malcolm X do you know?

Anonymous said...

Great response to Booker. I am a regularly reader of his blog and was very surprised that he attacked you on your Sudan position. You have hit the nail on the head again.

denise said...

FN,
This is denise, the "house negro."
You are wasting your time on the likes of Cobb ; he is a wanna be phony... two seconds of reading his blather and normal people turn off. Calling him an intellectual? Please.

I don't agree with your take on why more African Americans are passe' when it comes to other Blacks. . . and to infer a defacto litmus test is insulting. To assume that We are happy on Our plantation etc...

I know that for myself, and many of the African Americans that I know; We have grown weary of other Blacks, along with other ethnicities. African Americans, in too many cases are still the soldiers in the fights... not only for ourselves but everyone We deem to have some grievance against White America and and even sadly, Us. While other Blacks and others watch and wait; and in many occassions join the very demon that have them in whatever present shackle, and demonise, denigrate Us. Then when concessions are made they are there to get them... and then aide the demon who was against them to keep Us back and down.

Those are just facts, FN. You cannot deny that.

I suppose you were marching for Diallo? I was there... and that is when my eyes began to open. I was wondering where in the hell was his community? There were many African Americans marching and yelling and hollering in the streets.... were you there? I know you were with his peeps????

One of my best friends is Haitian, and Louima didn't even cross her mind. . . why do I have to care?

My best friend of 20 years is Trinidadian. . . and who do you think hipped me to the facts?

Other Blacks are not Our friends. Can We work together to bring about change? Sure, that can be done... but only after We get Our own house in order (and your underlying seeming distaste of African Americans) belies that fact. And they get their house in order; only then can there be an
equitable exchange of ideas and support. We are tired of all the heavy lifting.

If there is one things that Bill Cosby said right (and I agree with him overall; and I think I understand what he is trying to do) it was this fact, when asked by one reporter was he talking about other black communities;
"... I am talking about my people, the Black American people..." He went further; "...instead of going to Africa, get in your own community, go into some of these inner citys..."

I have all the confidence in the majority of the African American community coming together... We have not gotten to that Never Again moment, that We so dearly need... but We are back getting there.

I have read some of your articles and agree with you on much of the things you write; some made me crack up; but I will tell you; no one comes before my community... the most accomodating and empathetic community in this country and perhaps the world... the mover and shakers (if We wake back up). . . and I sacrifice them for no one.

Again, if that makes me a HOUSE NIGGA... THEN THERE I WILL HAPPILY DWELL... right along with the JAMAICAN, TRINIDADIAN, HATIAN, and AFRICAN HOUSE NIGGAS.


Like you, I too, am going to sign off... I have to reorganize the next group of African Americans, from my buppy community (all Black, and uppermid to upper income folk) who will be spending next weekend with me, at St Augustine's in New Orleans (the makeshift Hotel)... helping to gut and repair homes in the lower 9th.

House Negro Out!

Anonymous said...

Denise, you seem to be the very antithesis of a house negro, so I don't know why you call yourself.

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with loving your own-in your case Af. Americans- But my position is, and has always been that we are part of a bigger race. I agree with you about the Haitians Trinnys, Jamaicans etc. Trust me, I am Jamaican so I know exactly what you are talking about. But two wrongs don't make a right,and just because a lot of immigrant West Indians, Africans etc. act in this self serving manner,it doesn't mean that we should emulate their behavior.

Now you asked me to be honest, and I am going to ask you to do the same. Don't you think you are in the minority when it comes to Af. Americans giving a damn about other Af.Americans or any other black person for that mtter? That's the point I was trying to make about Dafur. We are just too complacent as a people and, as a result,we allow people to take advantage of us politically---Dems and Repubs

BTW, mad respect to you for organizing down in New Orleans! --Buppies or not. I have nothing but love for your passion, even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.

FN

Anonymous said...

I seen African students from northeastern IVY league schools helping clean the lower 9th during spring break. I got pictures! It has been done! Proudly helped by Africans who ain't got shit to lose if they did it or not... but out of a sense of responsibility for our people.

Denise and the like, lack information, So here we GO.

In the year 2000 on the Conference Against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related, the US walked out of the conference. Many Africans came out with banners talking about "Shame on the us of a".
Many African nations have been threatened with economic sanctions and force for speaking out against Racism and slavery.

Google: "Diallo" or any other African's name who have been shot by the po po (There have been a few) and see what their respective community has done-- from sending letters to congress, with 1000s of signatures-- to lobbying for that country seizing the opportunity.

George Jackson has said everything that had to be said about Bill Cosby before I was born man! My man, GJ saw it all-- foresaw it all. Read Soledad Brother.

Denise: I suggest you start reading and familiarizing yourself with African movement on what you think is your own struggle. Not only Africans, but the Chinese, Venezuelan , cubans and even Iranians had said or done something about it OUR struggle here.

I swear FN I have not yet talked to an intelligent, REASONABLE house negro. I beleiev Rice is but to say Bill Cosby or some coon who made a living popping his eyes out is Reasonable is a lil farfetched. Did you hear her take on the spanish version of the is it the national anthem?

ugz said...

Above post by UGZ

mark said...

George Jackson has said everything that had to be said about Bill Cosby before I was born man! My man, GJ saw it all-- foresaw it all. Read Soledad Brother.

Im not a bill cosby fan but to critisize him without recognizig that he made some valid and truthful points as far as Im concerned is a mild form of cooning. I have not heard one person say that remarks he made dont have a lot of truth in them. The only kids I have ever seen in my life act up on the metro are black kids, and Ive seen white, asian,hispanic and other types of kids on the metro. I guess promoting the value of education makes cosb'y a house negro. Grown ass adults should stop calling people names because they disagree with them. Oh by the way the only adults in my life that I routinely observe talking about folks people. What does that say about us. If you disagree with someone just say what you disagree with them about and keep moving. Their is no progressiveness in calling people names. By the way people to stupid to protect themselves from aids(when they were warned over 10 years ago), are to dumb to care about anybody but themselves. By the way I hate saying these things, but guesse what us black folks are very, very good at pretending shit right in front of our faces does not exist. Until we deal with the way black men treat women, black men not taking care of thier kids, the crime rate, the attitude problems we have and this negativity that permeates our culture yall can forget any real and meaningful progress. If you dont like it I dont care, I dont like I am so sick of grown ass adults glossing over the gigantic dysfunctions that black people have. BY THE WAY BEING A GROWN ASS ADULT AND CALLING PEOPLE NAMES IS COONING NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Deal with it. Mark

ugz said...

Mark:- Whenever I see a black man with his son or daughter, I ALWAYS say that I LOVE what he is doing.

Are you hurt by what George Jackson said to Bill Cosby, or by me calling Denise a house negress? In any case, what you fail to see from saying that black kids are the only ones that act up on the metro is that--

1. You must have not seen white kids who fight their school bus drivers, shoot up schools, engage in underage drinking, drugs, rampant bullying, depression, eating disorders of sickening proportions-- but I do not expect for you to see the negative side of the whites, because white is "PURE" right? LOL, you are a sucka for white-- Nor is it a good argument-- I am not sayig since white kids are badder, blacks should be bad-- NO, what I am saying is you just lack information. You haven't seen, read or understood otherwise.

2. Everytime you see black kids act up on the metro, it is YOUR responsibility to advise them and guide them. I will give you an example-- In a DC subway, a few years ago, I was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of King of Ethiopia, Haile Selassie while young, when a gang of jun. high school boys and girls came in and just started killing me and the t-shirt :). I actually smiled because they thought my momma made me wear it, but I decided to talk to them-- not in a preachly or teacher fashion, but as a peer. In the process, they were informed of a piece of BLACK HISTORY, and shared smiles.

3. I do not want to come across as transcendental, but if you had read Frantz Fanon's, Wretched of the Earth, you would see that what you call black kids cooning in the metro can be seen as a psychological response to an oppressive totalitarian white rule-- Believe me dude you are lucky to even observe their self destructive behavior without being hurt. As an example, what do palestinian kids do against their Parents wish when Israeli bulldozers come to their neighbourhoods ? For you to seek out.

4. As far as your aids comment goes again the problem of blacks in general is mis-education or even if they are gifted with a brilliant mind, they have a very limited source of information. At BlackElectorate.com, Cedric Muhammed is doing something to provide our folks with information from a diverse pool of sources with subject matter targetted for the seeking mind.

Who warned who over ten years ago?
The timeline of AIDS shows it started in Los Angeles in 1981, spread across continental USA. Until Magic, even the scientific community were warring with each other on the cause, and prevalence of the disease. The USA only managed to decrease infection rate in 1997. By the way just so you know blacks are @ continous risk. After they somewhat controlled it in their own population, in 1998 Minority AIDS Initiative was created, aiming to control the disease in the black community. Read more, I have given you enough google keywords.

If you are mistaking poverty for being dumb, I guess you are smart then, atleast you have a computer. Now all you need is riches for the mind.

Anonymous said...

First off, before you start butting into other people's houses, which Darfur is, remember that many efforts to help suffering Africans have been hurt by other Africans within those countries. For Example, Ethiopia after the first Live Aid.

Sure, Live Aid sent food to Ethiopia, but the powers that be within Ethiopia wouldn't let the aid get distributed. The food rotted at the docks. That was the worst example of this shit happening, but it is not an unusual example.

Now, we have a situation where most black kids will either end up in prison or shot.

Why are we not getting our own house in order rather than worrying about what is going on in Darfur?

Sure, we can be concerned, but we have to start locally before we work globally.

EminemsRevenge said...

Okay...THIS probably won't translate: http://www.writersdigest.com/contests/self_published.asp

but AS a fieldnigger with a dream i KNOW how them houseniggers be getting uppity now that the limbaughnistas be looking for a GOOD nigro to supplant MY uppity ass...and you gotta Google my screen name/nom de plume and go to the NYCJoyce site on Xanga to see what the fuck i'm talking 'bout!!!

Got your back homey...since i grew up at the tail end of the singing when WE should have ben swinging IF we really wanted to overcome...FUCK them devils

ugz said...

"Why are we not getting our own house in order rather than worrying about what is going on in Darfur?

Sure, we can be concerned, but we have to start locally before we work globally."

Hello:
Power. We lack power to have any effect over our own people here-- forget Darfur! But we are struggling for power as blacks in this country to better ourselves, educating ourselves, helping our folks etc. Also to consolidate this emerging minute power we have to have a standard socio-political policy domestic and international-- name any nation, we as black people MUST have a policy towards that country.

For example: All the western countries and including China and Russia are all against Iran having nuclear capability. STANDARD Policy. They may disagree on the way to take action on Iran but they have a basic standard on Iran. Why can't we have a standard policy that will castigate this racist admin. It is really easy you know! And the thing is you do not have to walk 100s of miles talking about "we shall overcome".

Man, when are those days, when niggaz in harlem in the 1930s lined up on queue to sign up to go to war against Italian aggression in Ethiopia.
This blacks in america have been softened... they are all studio gangsta's

denise said...

ugZ,

I don't follow you at all. I spoke of what I have come into contact with. When that Diallo mess went down; there was no hesitation on my part as to what I had to do. I gave support. At the time I did not think of anything other than an injustice had been done - And I questioned, and questioned to this day; a letter writing campaign didn't bring this issue to the forefront, Us in the streets did.

If I must study movements, as you suggest; I'll study the Civil Rights Movement; that is the one that everyone immitates.

ugz said...

Denise:

I am in complete agreement with you, when you said "us" in the street did all the work. We made something happen about Diallo, why not Darfur? you see what I mean.

Injustice is being done to the black Africans by the Arabs, instead of the whites--(nevertheless supported by whites in the long run) and we have a responsibility to stop this injustice.

Civil rights movement was a movement against racism right, and MLK did not stop at Alabama he covered issues upto Vietnam-- Listen to the speech he did 3 days before he was killed-- his goals were global and far reaching.

ugz said...

Denise:

We are not much different really!!

mark said...

Ugz :Mark:- Whenever I see a black man with his son or daughter, I ALWAYS say that I LOVE what he is doing

I feel the same way Ugz, but just because you and me smile when we see brothers with thier kids does not change the fact that 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock, that black men make up 6% of the population but make up almost 50% of the jail population.this is a recipe for disaster.


Ugz: Are you hurt by what George Jackson said to Bill Cosby, or by me calling Denise a house negress?

Mark: No sir I am not hurt by something Jackson said about Cosby over 30 years ago(before I was born). I dont even know what Jackson said about cosby and hell as far as I know it could have been true. Do you deny that bill cosby made some valid points, regardless of whether or not you agree with him? I have no problem with anyone criticizing Cosby, Cosby should get his own moral house in order. But whether or not Cosby is a hypocrit does not change the valid points he made.

Ugz said:In any case, what you fail to see from saying that black kids are the only ones that act up on the metro is that--

No Im not saying that black kids are the only ones acting out, but I have no doubt that our kids are doing it a larger #s. Are you denying the fact that black people have some basic and fundemental dysfunctions that lead to most of our ills including a murder and violent crime rate higher than everyone else in the country.

Ugz said: 1. You must have not seen white kids who fight their school bus drivers, shoot up schools, engage in underage drinking, drugs, rampant bullying, depression, eating disorders of sickening proportions-- butNO, what I am saying is you just lack information. You haven't seen, read or understood otherwise.

Mark said: Lets get something straigt everyday m-f I listen to the NPR or Cspan, not 95.5 or 93.9 urban music stations. When I get home. I watch PBS's Newshour with Jim Leher, Sunday's find me watching all the political show ( meet the press,ect) I am aware of a lot ( but not all)of what's going on.I see the white kids that are out of control, Im not saying that black are the only people acting out. But if you look at other indicating factors, it is pretty obvious to me that black folks have got some serious soul searching to do. We also need to change fundemental things about the way we are currently doing business. It is time for brutal honesty and glossing over our problems is only going to make it worse.

Ugz said: I do not expect for you to see the negative side of the whites, because white is "PURE" right? LOL, you are a sucka for white--

Mark Said: This statement right here is non sense. Just because I go after what I believe to be innapropiate or destructive behavior on the part of black folks, does not mean I think white people are pure. The 2 have nothing to do with each other. Lets say instance that white people had a murder and incarceration 10 times that of black people, that still would not stop me from speaking out against that murder, rape and all other behaviour destructive to the white community. As for me thinking that white is pure, this is a cheap shot against someone you dont even know. However its a weak and pathetic shot therefore the white gloves will staff on.

Ugz said:3. I do not want to come across as transcendental, but if you had read Frantz Fanon's, Wretched of the Earth, you would see that what you call black kids cooning in the metro can be seen as a psychological response to an oppressive totalitarian white rule-- Believe me dude you are lucky to even observe their self destructive behavior without being hurt. As an example, what do palestinian kids do against their Parents wish when Israeli bulldozers come to their neighbourhoods ? For you to seek out.

Mark said: I have not read Wretched of the Earth but I have read many, many books about black history, and the human condition. The problems you cited may be caused by the reason stated. But after hearing this for the the last 15 years I would like to know what are we going to do about it. To be honest I think the fact that black kids are acting out is in part due to incompetent parenting.

Ugz said: 4. As far as your aids comment goes again the problem of blacks in general is mis-education or even if they are gifted with a brilliant mind, they have a very limited source of information. At BlackElectorate.com, Cedric Muhammed is doing something to provide our folks with information from a diverse pool of sources with subject matter targetted for the seeking mind.

Who warned who over ten years ago?
The timeline of AIDS shows it started in Los Angeles in 1981, spread across continental USA. Until Magic, even the scientific community were warring with each other on the cause, and prevalence of the disease. The USA only managed to decrease infection rate in 1997. By the way just so you know blacks are @ continous risk. After they somewhat controlled it in their own population, in 1998 Minority AIDS Initiative was created, aiming to control the disease in the black community. Read more, I have given you enough google keywords.

If you are mistaking poverty for being dumb, I guess you are smart then, atleast you have a computer. Now all you need is riches for the mind.


Mark said: Miseducation, who's fault is that are you telling that black people dont have the ability to read , listen to the news and then debate to come up with the best answers. When I grew up I was the only person in my house who would read books. I never ever got this type of back and forth conversation from black people.The first person who really encourage me to read were my teachers not my parents or peers. The first person who actively supported me reading and writing was a white teacher in highschool not my black parents. My parents and freinds I grew up with were not concerned with reading, writing or anything educational for that matter. Are you denying that this is an all to familiar reality with black people. You can say what you about the aids but this is how I see, the sexual behavior of black people for over the last 30 years has been out of control. Any black person who grew up in a prodominately black neighboorhood, and witnessed the out of wedlock births, the fatherless kids walking around, and the recently skyrocked hiv rates who pretends like our behavior have nothing to do with it is a fucking mooron. Even now you failed to mention the fact that just responsible condom use would have prevented thousands of these Hiv infections amongst black people. I also know we are at continous risk for hiv that is the reason why I am making a big deal out of it. In case anyone didnt know we (black people) are responsible for ourselves including not catching aids.Especially when things like widespread condom use would have stoped some of this. You seem to be glossing over the things that black people do all over the world that continue to destroy us.

Ugz said: If you are mistaking poverty for being dumb, I guess you are smart then, atleast you have a computer. Now all you need is riches for the mind.

Mark said: Poverty is no excuse for not reading to your kids or making education a priority, Poverty is no excuse for bad behavior, or doing things that hurt black women an our children. If we emphasize education the way we emphasize clothes are you telling me that would not improve the quality of our lives.

u gz said...

Mark:
Thanks for replying.

I want you to understand that I am in complete and unfaltering OPPOSITION to what Bill Cosby said about us. He blames the parents--

Here is why we can not blame our beloved parents--
We have been fatherless ever since we came to this forsaken land. It is not a new phenomenon.

How can you be a good father, when you can not get jobs because your name sounds black and your father did not leave you money because his father was broke, because his father was lynched and his father was hard working to make a white guy rich.

A vicious cycle of oppression makes our lives hand to mouth-- EVERY single day Mark-- for centuries. Remember we are speaking collectively here. There will always be a lucky family here, a brillian genious family there, a gifted athlete here, and a great entertainer there but over all we are in a bad shape.

This is what you call Dysfunction. And no doubt that it exists. We are in a serious time of psychological, physical, and socio-economical decline as a people.

What do we do about it? We can do nothing to tell you the truth because we have no POWER. But we can ask them?
We demanded freedom -- they abolished slavery
We demanded to vote-- they let us
We demanded for integration -- they integrated

notice everything we demanded had a violent outcome process before it actually was granted...

What are we missing, we havent demanded the key word here is "SELF DETERMINATION" because they are determining for us now.
And SELF DETERMINATION is the key difference between a house negro and a field negro.

denise said...

African Americans have always criticized their behavior, Mark; and sadly it is this overbearing amount of self-criticism that has aided Us in this downward spiral.

Cosby, although, I think I understand what he is doing; did blunder... being poor does not mean that you are not trying; being poor does not mean that you are not fighting against the many obstacles placed in Our way for advancement. On that he sounded and looked the fool; but I give him props for recognizing that era, and not letting himself be pimped by those who truly hate Us; in fact he said that he did not like and was not concerned with what either White people or "conservative" blacks thought.

Cosby also have issue with self-control it seems; and I am a little cautious about a man who would put his own child in jail.
(Com'on she looks like his children; and her mama and his wife do not look alike)...

Mark, African Americans do not commit the most crimes in this country --- that sounds like something straight off of a KKK website.... more African Americans are in jail; something like 80% for nonviolent crimes, and most of them are drug related. Why is not the question; Why do Blacks go to jail for drugs and drug related crimes and Whites get rehab?

I guess when Whites and their Negro enablers rant and rave about a group of Black kids having a fight at a football game as the most heinous thing they have ever seen; while on the same night, a group of white men, as they were all 19 and 20 year olds; and frat brothers had a fight and one ended up dead - and that barely was even mentioned - one would think like that.

In America, where White violent and vicious men are given a pass for crimes and criminal behaviors...and Blacks are continually villified for the littlest infraction one would think that.

You are not the only person in America who grew up in a home where education was not on the forefront .... many people grew up like that; and I guarantee you, that most of those homes are not Black households.

Education was key in my family; and being the youngest of 8; by the time I was getting my legs under my feet, my brothers and sisters all had initials behind their names (MD, JD, PHD,); and my mother married my father when she was 15 and my father was 22; and they were married for 45 years before my father died. My mother never worked, outside the home; and my father worked his butt off...

There were some parts of my family tree that were not into the education thing; but they wanted and worked...

I say all this to say to you, Why are you so seemingly Anti-thetical
towards African Americans?

We have always made do, with less... We made America what she is (was - Bush is destroying this country as we speak)... We drop a trillion dollars in this country each year without ever getting a return (more than most country's gnp). . . and still We receive limited resources.

Now I can agree that most of what Ails Us are of Our own doing; and most of that comes from innate self-hatred that some of Us carry... and an ignorant unwillingness to pool resources and utilize the tools that We possess - and they are vast... but your statements border on denigration; which leads me to think that you don't think much of Us. We have enough of Us who can only putdown... there has to be a balance about that.

Ugz,
I never thought that We were that different (smile); no harm, no foul.

mark said...

Ugz said: I want you to understand that I am in complete and unfaltering OPPOSITION to what Bill Cosby said about us. He blames the parents--


Mark said:First of all I want to say that I have no special love for Bill Cosby. And even though you have responded to none of the points Ive made, Ill respond to yours. Whether or not you agree with the way Cosby made his statements did he make any valid points at all, if so which ones were valid


ugz said: Here is why we can not blame our beloved parents--
We have been fatherless ever since we came to this forsaken land. It is not a new phenomenon.

Mark said: If parents arent partially responsible for all the social ill affeting thier children who is. Doe it cost money to read to your kids at night, does it cost money for a black money to take his kids to the park. As for blacks growing up fatherless, how do we start to reverse this trend.

Ugz: said How can you be a good father, when you can not get jobs because your name sounds black and your father did not leave you money because his father was broke, because his father was lynched and his father was hard working to make a white guy rich.

Mark said:You dont think that blacks (especially young black men) contribute to people not hiring them by having attitude problems and criminal records make it harder to get jobs. Just because your father is broke does not mean that he or his soon has any right to rob a black women, it dosent mean he has right to kill a black womens son.Most black peoples fathers were not a lynched. Not everyones father is willing to work hard.

Ugz said: A vicious cycle of oppression makes our lives hand to mouth-- EVERY single day Mark-- for centuries. Remember we are speaking collectively here. There will always be a lucky family here, a brillian genious family there, a gifted athlete here, and a great entertainer there but over all we are in a bad shape.

Mark said: ive been hearing its the man for a long time. Even if every thins your saying on this point is true what do we do about. If the man is responsible for our problems and you know this then what do you suggest we do about it. What should be done and when and how do we get started.

Ugz said: What do we do about it? We can do nothing to tell you the truth because we have no POWER. But we can ask them?
We demanded freedom -- they abolished slavery
We demanded to vote-- they let us
We demanded for integration -- they integrated

notice everything we demanded had a violent outcome process before it actually was granted...

What are we missing, we havent demanded the key word here is "SELF DETERMINATION" because they are determining for us now.
And SELF DETERMINATION is the key difference between a house negro and a field negro.

Mark said: Are you saying that we are just stuck with the way things are, is thier nothing we can do to change our situation in our oppinion.


P.S I have some suggestions and I am looking for more, please check out my blog and let me know what you come up with. Mark

mark said...

denise said...
African Americans have always criticized their behavior, Mark; and sadly it is this overbearing amount of self-criticism that has aided Us in this downward spiral.

Mark said: African americans should be tougher on each other than anyone else, look you can say what you want but I have no patience for behaviour that hurts black people. Most of the crimes committed by black people are by black people. I dont have any sympathy for a black man who was probably raise by a single black woman rob a black woman. Ok so you overbearing criticism as you call. What to you propose we do to change the sitituation were in. I propose we work with young black men, with the goal of getting them to change attitued torwards black women, themselves and thier family.We should put lots of energy into getting the black man to respect himself and the black women. We would work with these black men in the form of tutoring,mentoring and youth employment programs.

Denise said: Cosby, although, I think I understand what he is doing; did blunder... being poor does not mean that you are not trying; being poor does not mean that you are not fighting against the many obstacles placed in Our way for advancement. On that he sounded and looked the fool; but I give him props for recognizing that era, and not letting himself be pimped by those who truly hate Us; in fact he said that he did not like and was not concerned with what either White people or "conservative" blacks thought.

Mark said: I dont remember Cosby saying that bieng poor meant you werent trying. 1) What obstacles are bieng put in our way. 2) Are we responsible for any of those obstacles.3) Can we effectively remove any obstacles placed in our way with the present status qoe. I also could less what white people or concervative blacks will say. I also do not care what liberal or moderates say. Black or white. I am fed up with the condition of black people in this country, what I would like to do is issolate our biggest issues, roll up my sleeves and get to work, hopefully in conjuction with several like minded people. I also believe at some point and time we need to directly deal with the crime in our neighborhoods and place where our kids live.





Denise said: Cosby also have issue with self-control it seems; and I am a little cautious about a man who would put his own child in jail.
(Com'on she looks like his children; and her mama and his wife do not look alike)...

Mark said: I have issues with what Cosbsy did, cheating on your wife is wrong though not uncommon, especially when a lot of black men are being caught up in sex scandals. But to be honest this is his own personal business.



Denise said: Mark, African Americans do not commit the most crimes in this country --- that sounds like something straight off of a KKK website.... more African Americans are in jail; something like 80% for nonviolent crimes, and most of them are drug related. Why is not the question; Why do Blacks go to jail for drugs and drug related crimes and Whites get rehab?

Mark said: I never said that black folks commit the most voilent crimes in the country. Are you saying that the murder rate amongst black people isnt higher than everyone else in the country. Let's say for instance that whites and blacks suffured murder rates at the same ratio as black people. This would not change anything one bit, it would still fall on responsible intelligent people to try to get the murder and general crime rate down as low as possible.As for the drug situation Ill be the first to admit the laws making possesion of crack more of an offence are racist. There is no earthly reason for this. Having said that still does not give these young black men to sell that poison to people in the community. They have been locking people up left and right since 3 strikes, the and still where I live thier are way too many young black many selling drugs.





Denise said:In America, where White violent and vicious men are given a pass for crimes and criminal behaviors...and Blacks are continually villified for the littlest infraction one would think that.

Mark said: Look I think this point is nonsense.I have seen black men (especially black youth) do things I have not seen anyone else to do.Negative things I may add. All you have to do is look at the behavior of young black men in the NBA and NFL, they get in more trouble than anyone else. Take american Idol the only contestants who have been in trouble with the law are the black contestants. Im not trying to overly bash black folks but what weve been doing has not been working. My theory is this if you do something to hurt black people I gonna come after your ass I dont care if your purple. So since most crime against black people is committed by black people I choose to speak out against those blacks hurting the people I love.

Denise said: I guess when Whites and their Negro enablers rant and rave about a group of Black kids having a fight at a football game as the most heinous thing they have ever seen; while on the same night, a group of white men, as they were all 19 and 20 year olds; and frat brothers had a fight and one ended up dead - and that barely was even mentioned - one would think like that.

Mark said: Look like I said to hell with what white people do I would like to focus on our behavior. Mark

ugz said...

Mark let's talk about incompetent parenting-- let me see if I can understand-

Incompetent Parenting.

Incompetent -- the word comes from the latin incompetentem which is the opposite of competentem--which in turn means to AGREE-- or COINCIDE.

Then incompetent means to NOT AGREE or NOT COINCIDE-- a measure of two things. You are measuring Black parenthood against a superior parenthood of Whites or Asians in America and labeling it incompetent-- is my logic wrong?

Then now do you see the problem of comparing White parenthood of America which has been consistently modified and upgraded through the centuries without hurdles, to be of what it is now and Black parenthood, which faced hardship everytime there is war, depression, slavery, jim crow, racism, police brutality, drug infestation, gun proliferation,-- all of the above which we have no control of.

So do you see... let me know...

I will check your blog right away... but my solutions are a bit too bitter to swallow i warn you.

mark said...

I never compared white parents to black parents. The reason why I mentioned the world incompetence inthe first place is because I believe any parents job is to raise thier kids to have survival skills, collective black parents are raising kids the commit more crime, more murder, black men who abandon thier family left and right and kids who grow up and have to rely on welfare because they are ill preppared to take care of thier own responsibilities.mark

ugz said...

I believe any parents job is to raise thier kids to have survival skills, collective black parents are raising kids the commit more crime, more murder, black men who abandon thier family left and right and kids who grow up and have to rely on welfare because they are ill preppared to take care of thier own responsibilities.mark

Survival skills. Please NOTE that you said survival skills.
-Not specialize in their god given talent.
-Not expand family business
-Not to dream big
-investment

Survival skills are just those. Skills to survive. They cant teach us to specialize our God given talent because they are unable to recognize our talents because they parents never recognized their talents and so forth. Collectively we are too poor to have family business or investments to show and teach our kids Money and time management. Nevertheless mom and dad teach us how to survive.

you call this ill prepared. How can you expect all of a sudden a collective poor 30 million blacks to recognize their childrens God given ability.

I will tell you a kid I used to mentor. lol this kid for fun, for FUN mind you, used to multiply license plate numbers in his head and I had to multiply with a calculator to verify... beautiful black not African american and yet american to the core.... but not even his teachers could see that... that he had epilepsy didnt help either... but do you see my point

denise said...

Mark,
beating down people will not help them. You say you love Black people, but all your vitriole is pointed at them.

I'm sure this plays well with other groups; but it does not help.

You are correct, Cosby did not say poor people are not trying; but he INFERRED THE HELL OUT OF IT; and everyone got that memo. And by your own words; since his business is his own - then the business of those he attack is theirs.

I do not run away from the pathologys that affect Us; but any rational person questions why here and not there?

You are right when you say that most of the crimes against Us eminate from Us; but so do all the crimes against White people eminate from White people.

You cannot compare selectively.
It is okay for you to compare Whites and Blacks when you want to hightlight a negative pathology; but it is not okay when one uses the it to show the opposite? That in and of itself speaks volumes.

White is not the standard bearer - not to me.

You win. I think that African Americans spend too too much time trying to prove their worth to people... We have almost killed Ourselves trying to figure out racism and the racists who perpetrate it... at the end of day; it is not Our problem.

You think African American or rather Black = Bad.

I think it means beautiful.

denise said...

Ugz,
I would love to hear about your solutions. As I have a list myself... for I think solutions to what ails Us are simple.

We already have the resources and tools...most of Us just don't recognize them.

mark said...

Denise Said: We have always made do, with less... We made America what she is (was - Bush is destroying this country as we speak)... We drop a trillion dollars in this country each year without ever getting a return (more than most country's gnp). . . and still We receive limited resources.

Mark Said: That is true denise we have made do with less. And although things arent where they need to be, thier still racism and a bunch of other things unfair to the disadvantaged. However they use to burn down schools for blacks, they use to exclude us from basic participation in american society. This society was funded by our work and taxes I may add. These things they dont do any more. Id dosent mean everthing is where it should be. To be honest thier still may be those type of societal barriers in our way. But it still does not give us the right to do self destruct to each other. Remember most crime by black people is usually against black people.This is something that is stiffling our advancenment. Pure self Destruction. These arguments about the man being responsible are argument I have heard with my own earballs for the last 20 years. To be honest I made some of these arguments( much better than Ugz and Denise I may add) mysel. I remember having arguments with the religous folks for the last 15 years ( I always punish them) about some of these issues. I would like to identy , and figure out ways to combat any self destructive behaviour. In my oppinion robbing a black women is self destruction, leaving her to take care of his kids, getting locked up and taken away from your family all qualify as self destruction. Having babies to young, not graduating from highschool, not reading to your kids everynight, not stimulating the mental capacities of your kid is self destruction in my oppinion. If we dont take drastic measure to change them we are going to continue to suffer more pain, tragedy, heartbreak ect. Than any one else. Lets also teach young black men business skills , in order to drop that trillion dollars back into the black community. Lets talk about how to do that.




Denise said:Now I can agree that most of what Ails Us are of Our own doing; and most of that comes from innate self-hatred that some of Us carry... and an ignorant unwillingness to pool resources and utilize the tools that We possess - and they are vast

Mark said: Everthing you said I agreed with in fact I think It was a well reasoned and written oppinion. This is what I disagreed with.

Denise said: ... but your statements border on denigration; which leads me to think that you don't think much of Us. We have enough of Us who can only putdown... there has to be a balance about that.

Mark said: I appologize if I come out a little harsh. But you cant deny that the things Im talking about are going on. I not here to make anyone comfortable, I also am here to remain comfortable myself. If you or anyone else have better solution come on over to progress and state what they are. I would like to know what you think we should do about these problems that you know we have. I would like to began to work with young black men, to get them back into thier families. I think we should make promotion of educaion and familily our # 1 priority. What do you think we should be doing. I have noticed that you but especially Ugz do not answer my questions. I would apprecitate if you would respond to my questions and let me know what points I make that you agree with. Mark

denise said...

FN,
I just wanted to say, this articles was excellent.
I get and understand your thesis; but again, We have to get Our house in order... Not to get into the big house, and get Our heads and asses patted; like good little Niggrahs, but so that We can have Our own big house.

denise

field negro said...

I agree Denise, we do have the resources to be more powerful as a people and make some serious social change. But I do think it's a matter of coordination and knowledge.

Who knows, at least some of us are trying here and having a meaniingful dialogue about our plight. We need all negroes ---house and field- to get this done.

Honestly, I think that's why I am so hard on so called house negroes, because they have the intellect and in many cases the resources to help, but they waste it on the wrong things. --Like the whole I'm a proud American wrapped in old glory crap. I mean come on, every one has to realize that as the plight of black people improves so will that of America.

FN

ugz said...

Mark:

I do not mean to run away from your question. I will pay close attention to your question.

:)

mark said...

White is not the standard bearer - not to me.

.


Denise said: Mark,
beating down people will not help them. You say you love Black people, but all your vitriole is pointed at them.

Mark said:Yes denise I love black people. But I also have great bitterness for behavior that impedes our progress. Intellecual, finacial, male female relations, ect. I also have scathing bittrness towards people like LaShawn barber, and white republicans who play the moral, clinton, or reverse race card. I have bitterness toward a lot of entities that I consider to be non tolerant or hypocrital.

Denise said: I do not run away from the pathologys that affect Us; but any rational person questions why here and not there?

Mark said: Good then that means you are ready and willing to come up with some ideas and solutions to began moving forward. I look forward to reading them.

Denise said: You are right when you say that most of the crimes against Us eminate from Us; but

You cannot compare selectively.
It is okay for you to compare Whites and Blacks when you want to hightlight a negative pathology; but it is not okay when one uses the it to show the opposite? That in and of itself speaks volumes.

Mark said: Denise I am not saying that white people dont have a lot of the same problems that we do. But a white person robbing a liquor store where white folks live does not affect the community where I live. Im not saying white people are morally better than us Im just saying we need to began to change negative behavior amongst ourselves. We cant control what white people do, we can control our own behavior. So my question is what are the things you belive we should work on. Top 4.



Denise said: You think African American or rather Black = Bad.

I think it means beautiful

Mark said: Denise you are wrong you dont know me. Just because I will not suffer any foolish on the left does not mean I dont go after the right. You should have seen me go after Cobb, or LaShawn Barber.I have got some gigantic issues with the so called conservatives. I intend to expose them for the hypocritical phonies I believe them to be. But I like to intellectually punish and expose hypocrits and people full of shit. Right or left. I gonna get at em. Mark

P.S You and your boy Ugz did not come up with any solutions why bitch problems if you arent going to try to change them. Quite honestly the both of yalls probably know some stuff I need. If I disagree with 50% of what you say,but agree with the other half then I need to hear what that other half is. Why cant we start from where we agree with each other first and then proceed.




Mark said:Denise I respect your intellect but this was an easy( Pop fly if you watch baseball)comment to respond to

mark said...

White is not the standard bearer - not to me.

.


Denise said: Mark,
beating down people will not help them. You say you love Black people, but all your vitriole is pointed at them.

Mark said:Yes denise I love black people. But I also have great bitterness for behavior that impedes our progress. Intellecual, finacial, male female relations, ect. I also have scathing bittrness towards people like LaShawn barber, and white republicans who play the moral, clinton, or reverse race card. I have bitterness toward a lot of entities that I consider to be non tolerant or hypocrital.

Denise said: I do not run away from the pathologys that affect Us; but any rational person questions why here and not there?

Mark said: Good then that means you are ready and willing to come up with some ideas and solutions to began moving forward. I look forward to reading them.

Denise said: You are right when you say that most of the crimes against Us eminate from Us; but

You cannot compare selectively.
It is okay for you to compare Whites and Blacks when you want to hightlight a negative pathology; but it is not okay when one uses the it to show the opposite? That in and of itself speaks volumes.

Mark said: Denise I am not saying that white people dont have a lot of the same problems that we do. But a white person robbing a liquor store where white folks live does not affect the community where I live. Im not saying white people are morally better than us Im just saying we need to began to change negative behavior amongst ourselves. We cant control what white people do, we can control our own behavior. So my question is what are the things you belive we should work on. Top 4.



Denise said: You think African American or rather Black = Bad.

I think it means beautiful

Mark said: Denise you are wrong you dont know me. Just because I will not suffer any foolish on the left does not mean I dont go after the right. You should have seen me go after Cobb, or LaShawn Barber.I have got some gigantic issues with the so called conservatives. I intend to expose them for the hypocritical phonies I believe them to be. But I like to intellectually punish and expose hypocrits and people full of shit. Right or left. I gonna get at em. Mark

P.S You and your boy Ugz did not come up with any solutions why bitch problems if you arent going to try to change them. Quite honestly the both of yalls probably know some stuff I need. If I disagree with 50% of what you say,but agree with the other half then I need to hear what that other half is. Why cant we start from where we agree with each other first and then proceed.




Mark said:Denise I respect your intellect but this was an easy( Pop fly if you watch baseball)comment to respond to

mark said...

This is an open question but directed at cetain bloggers who wil not answer questions.


If we fought for and won reperations. Riddle me this.

1) How much would we ask for.

2) Do we have a plan on what should be done with the money.
3) Who would be eligeble , are thier any age, color, or enconmic stipulations.

4) Who would be in charge of the money and how do we hold them accountable.

5) I assume some of this money will be used to create leadership, health, ecconomic programs ect.

6) What things are required from all parties.For example churches, community, schools, parents, civil and social orginizations. To hold all of these entities accountable.

7) How do we neutrizile and change some of the negative factors in our culture, drugs, violence, disrespect towards women, ect.

8) How would you detirmine who's white or black.

9) What would you do about white people claiming to be black because someone is descendant from some black, Mulatta, quadroon, ect? I garauntee people in the white community know who thier black relatives are.

field negro said...

Mark, I hope that was not directed at me,as I have never stated that I support reperations. Would it be nice to recieve some form of comepsation from the government?-not only American but British for the sins of colonialism as well- Of ocurse it would, but it's just not realistic for all the reasons you stated above and more.

I do think that as black people we have a lot more financial power than we think. If we would stop spending so frivolously and invest in meaningfull things, like giving back to our schools, community programs, scholarship funds, small business etc. it would be a start.

mark said...

field negro said...
Mark, I hope that was not directed at me,as I have never stated that I support reperations. Would it be nice to recieve some form of comepsation from the government?-not only American but British for the sins of colonialism as well- Of ocurse it would, but it's just not realistic for all the reasons you stated above and more.

I do think that as black people we have a lot more financial power than we think. If we would stop spending so frivolously and invest in meaningfull things, like giving back to our schools, community programs, scholarship funds, small business etc. it would be a start.

Mark said: Feild Negro thank you for comming out and blogging like a man. I know you have be watching the exchange between me and some of your commentators. I am annoyed because I beleive part of our problem as black folks is intellectual pontification.Meaning a habbit of talking about problems more than solutions, and then a problem delay of implementation of those ideas. These arguments that have been presented I have heard for the last 20 years.It seems to me that our exchange is leading to more recognized responsiblity by the man for black people's present condition. It is true that sinnister and inhumane crimes were committed against blacks. I have been reading up on some of the crimes that america has committed against black americans. Hell if we only present the our tax case , taxation and no representation. That alone is pretty damming. However I cant firgure out exactly what certain folks are asking for or saying should be done. Some of the arguments they make I use to make, except I made em a whole lot better than those 2. I believe this to be a world of ideas, meaning its all your ability to sale your product. Even if your product is the emancipation of black intellect. Or the emancipation of black folks economically. We are going to have to create that world. A world where black men and women are trained to create business that serve thier own community, but they will only stay in business if they provide a good product at a fair price. They will only stay in business if they treat thier employees, customers, and vendors with respect. It will not be easy to create this world, people are going to have to think out the box, respect education, and sweat physically and mentally to provide supperior products and services. It is a world of ideas.Can you present those ideas to your base economic, or otherwise. If I dont like something LaShawn Barber says, is it enough to call her a tom and say she hates herself? I dont think so, I thing one should be able to write a well thought out and reasoned rebuttal to what she says. I hate when people critisize the status quo but dont present supperior ideas on how to change things. It seems to me like all black people have been hurt spiritually. Part of this pain is directly related to a close mindedness that leaves us slower to accept and utilize

* technology
* New learning/parenting techniques
* addapting new strategies on how to deal with social, civil and human rights issue,ect

* And by far what holds us back the most in my oppinion is the backwards way that black men treat our women. Our women have always been actively struggling for our advancement. We do not give them the respect they deserve or support they have earned. We would be further along.

P.S Most brothers wont touch this one, because we would have to change fundemental notions that that have become comfortable to us. To put plainly this to much heat for most brothas to deal with. Mark

ugz said...

Mark:

The reason for what seems I am shying away from your question is because a certain statement-- just one line that you write, unfairly criticizing our folks just kills me, and I spend my whole input time on it... never the less, even if you do not see what I mean, I am sure other readers appreciate the explanations.

Now to answer your question on reparation:
1) How much would we ask for:

In the 1830's a 10 - 12 year old slave boy went for $800. So I took it as a mission to see how much it is worth now, and using simple algebra and info of how much certain companies that were worth then are now, I came to the figure, $800 then, is approximately 27000.

27000 a pop for 30 Million African Americans, in the USA, damn near a thrillion bucks viewing it in simple Math. Add up our forced labor, economic input, physical and mental torcher, terrorism, the continuing problems of racism etc etc, let the jury decide... on FN Britain and America, add up, Spain, Portugal, Netherland, France, Germany, the whole of Latin America, including Argentina and Uruagy, you are looking at us suing every country white nation on earth... and rightly so?
How can you put money on the Greatest Injustice the WORLD has ever seen??????

2) Do we have a plan on what should be done with the money.
They will never APOLOGIZE in a world stage much less PAY for their sins. And anyway what is your obsession in REPARATIONS meaning monetary compensation.

Israel the land is simply the greatest reparation that jews ever got-- you see where I am getting at. Please refer to the FinalCall's "Our Program" section to understand more.

3) Who would be eligeble , are thier any age, color, or enconmic stipulations.
You are such an American Mark. :) If you can find, any book on West Germany's reparation and retribution to the state of Israel, and the global Jew it will take your mind of the comedic and childish concept of reparations being a few dollars going into the decendants of the slaves.

4) Who would be in charge of the money and how do we hold them accountable.
Money Money Money...shhh talk to me about LAND. SOIL. WATER. Natural Resources. Steel. Transport. Economic Infrastructures etc etc... I will answer the latter part of the question which is valid, on a better conversation

5) I assume some of this money will be used to create leadership, health, ecconomic programs ect.
What is it a few thrillion dollars, yea surely I really would be mad if we all went out and bought nikes,

6) What things are required from all parties.For example churches, community, schools, parents, civil and social orginizations. To hold all of these entities accountable.
I do not understand what this question means?!

7) How do we neutrizile and change some of the negative factors in our culture, drugs, violence, disrespect towards women, ect.

Is this within the context of reparations? I assumed not, therefore, my answer is, We have no power as a people in this country. As you came to terms with the existance of Drugs, Violence, disrespect towards women in our community please come to terms that we have no socio-economic power to Police, Sanction, discipline ourselves.

The reality is Mark, you as a man or me, or a member of some pro-black grassroots movement or a church or even a radical black group like the BPanthers, do not have the ability, the depth, the funding, the time, the resources, to "neutralize" Drugs, or Violence (guns) in our streets.

The causes of these and what sustains them in our community are multi-pronged and very complicated that they need research from academia, require funding from the government. This project is mind-bogglingly gigantic. Nevertheless, please do not stop from doing your church based or grassroot movements if you have any... Mark, mark my words aint shit gonna change...


8) How would you detirmine who's white or black.
Just ask. This agains is borderline elementary thinking. Mark, if I go this route it will be completely useless. To gain more info, I urge you to find reading material in race mixing in Brazil which had a lot more slaves then US, you will find their coloring schema a lot more amusing than Black or White.

Actually, this question is quite humerous by itself, on how even blacks who claim to have been oppressed by the white all of a sudden dont know who is white anymore.

9) What would you do about white people claiming to be black because someone is descendant from some black, Mulatta, quadroon, ect? I garauntee people in the white community know who thier black relatives are.
Send them to South Africa!

Lol, look Mark, I want you to really evaluate your thinking of monetary funds in reparations. That approach is useless. 2ndly reparations is not a new thing. It has been done in the middle east and s. east asia. We can use those platforms to discuss about it. :)

Please excuse my negativity, pessimissim or any ills you see in my points above, I am coming in from 2 hours of work out and I am trying to be as REALISTIC as possible.

u g z said...

My Point above:

What we want according to a great, proudly indigenous religious group--
http://www.noi.org/muslim_program.htm


How West Germany retributed to the Jews?
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p243_Weber.html

I will find a similar article on how Japan helped, Indonesia, Singapore, South Korea, China and even India by providing them technology and monetary fund and long term loans as retribution.

denise said...

Mark;
don't go celebrating yet, brother, I just felt that I would not reach you.... but I'll be honest with you, I respect your tenacity.

I think I know brothers when I see and hear them speak --- I'm glad I found FN; and Ugz (who is crazy); and you too, my too serious brother.

As to your questions:

I don't want reparations.
I don't want to ever get to that point where anyone can look to me, and say it's over, you got paid for it.

WE need to start thinking about paying reparations to Ourselves...money will not heal Our torn souls.

But let's say armageddon is here and We are paid for the sins that this country has wrought against Us.

First We should have some Accountants and StockBrokers and Business people to monitor the fund and use a percentage to invest.

Each African American get a full quarterly accounting of said fund.

African American give to the fund monthly; with about 40 million of Us here; It could be as simple as $1 per person, per month.

10% annually is to pay those We have monitoring the fund...but their pay is tied to their success with the fund.

A percentage should go to business loans for those of Us who want to open up businesses.... and tie that to community developement... said loans should be low interest or no interest; and may be voided if say the person starts a business that helps the community...

Those who want loans should present blind applications/ business plans...and We have 1 rep from each state that meets 1 time each month or maybe two months who decide on who gets the loan; and make reports as to why they voted the way they did...

10% goes to HBCU's (this is going to be tricky... because most HBCU's are state owned...but it can still work)' but surely to private HBCU's monthly, so that they can start building and serve more of Our kids etc.... and start building new colleges...and programs.... Maybe invest some into trade school education... computer technology and such...

Small Home Loans, Low or no interest; or buying up property and selling to Our folk; even housing complexes, and let the tenants buy the property and make their own laws etc...

We have to build a whole infrastructure so that Our people can be at peace, for once; and stop feeding people who in the least tolerate Us and at worst hate Us.

Okay, this is interesting....

And you made a great point... instead of always arguing with each other - lets do start where we agree... I'll check out your blog in a day or two; see what you got. And I'll let you know where I'm at.

field negro said...

Mark, I must say that I admire your passion, and if I may echo what Denise said, I am glad and honored to have deep posters on this blog like you, Denise, and ugz.

I do think Denise had probably the most practical and workable solutuions to this reparations issue.--once again the female coming up large.Primarily,because whether we like it or not, we have to sell whatever plan we have to the rest of America.

This is a democracy, and implementing programs like this will take votes. As people of color we don't have the numbers yet to grab change at the ballot box, so whatever plan we have will have to be sellable to the majority if it is to include funding from government sources.

I love the ideas Denise presented about small home loans,funding HBC's, investing in the market etc. These are all workable, as only a moron would vote against uplifting people who we want to help by making them independent financially.

I want to say again for the record though, that the whole reparations movement to me is nice to talk
about, but again, I want to focus on doing something NOW! And I honestly believe that until we start educatiing our people in a lot of the things that comes with basic human dignity, we will have a long way to go. Things like just cleaning the trash in our neigborhoods, not putting tags on other people's walls, taking pride in our homes-whether we rent or not- taking an interst in our children's education, reporting crime when we see it....I mean I could go on, but you get my point.


These are the things we should start with, and it takes our churches, community groups,people like us blogging, political action groups and the will to educate and help others to get it done.

FN

ugz said...

Denise-- you give me hope... : ),

On addition to Field's comments on what we should do currently, as in working within the law, and the small grassroots movements and church based initiatives...

I will be teaching in a JHS in FN check this South Philadelphia, starting Summer, 2007. Talks are still going, but I know it is an "inner city" school LOL. Big plans in motion-- but this is on a personal level-- I do not know what else to tell ya

mark said...

FN said: Mark, I must say that I admire your passion, and if I may echo what Denise said, I am glad and honored to have deep posters on this blog like you, Denise, and ugz.

I do think Denise had probably the most practical and workable solutuions to this reparations issue.--once again the female coming up large.Primarily,because whether we like it or not, we have to sell whatever plan we have to the rest of America.

Mark said: You are right Denise did present well thought out response, but I havent presented mine yet. As for black females comming up big again, all I can say in response is black women have been comming up big for a long time now, inspite of the credit they never recieve. Now Ill will respond to Denise responses to my questions. Ugz however will have to wait until this evening, for I want to respond to the intellectual tender red meat he has left he in the form of his last weak and pathetic post. Another reason I am waiting until later because I am fed up with Ugz critizing me and not giving any workable solutions. Beware Ugz I am in the process of slipping of the intellectual white gloves your comments will be dealt with latter this evening. As for now

Denise said: Mark;
don't go celebrating yet, brother, I just felt that I would not reach you.... but I'll be honest with you, I respect your tenacity.

I think I know brothers when I see and hear them speak --- I'm glad I found FN; and Ugz (who is crazy); and you too, my too serious brother.

Mark said: Denise I know that the way I say things at times may seem like I have no sympathy for our plight. However this is not true, I just think that if we do basic common sense things our lives would be so much better. I agree with you Ugz is crazy. As for me bieng to serious, I am someone who firmly believes that a large percentage of black people live in a fantasy world not based on logic and common sense. These skill are sorely needed to protect ourselves on a day to day basis yet I dont feel like we possess them at the level we need to.


Mark said: I agree no dollar amount can make up for what was done to African americans. I personally think that To be honest with you I am not really focused on the reperations argument. The only reason I brought it up in the first place was because I felt that either you or Ugz wanted to hear that. I now know its was brother ugz, after throwing him an easy shot at which to make some sense. He presented the same (played out) argument that the Nation has presented for the last 50 years. How lame is that?

Densie said:
use a percentage to investWE need to start thinking about paying reparations to Ourselves...money will not heal Our torn souls.

But let's say armageddon is here and We are paid for the sins that this country has wrought against Us.

First We should have some Accountants and StockBrokers and Business people to monitor the fund and .

Mark said: You may be right about investment to ourselves. I think the first thing we need to do is give fool credit and support to the black women out here, who have been warriors at times when brothers arent. Money will not heal our souls I think it is going to take honest admission of every black person of thier role in what led to our downtrodden situation, and thier role in getting us out. Long before the funds are allocated we should all be reprogramed in the proper way to respect each other, treat each other like human biengs. In by oppinion brothas will have to be reprogramed to sweat and bleed for the black woman and his family. It should be a priority to make teaching black youth, business, human,and community service skills. As for the accountants and stockbrockers, this is not a bad Idea but we should have a mechanism that holds them accountabe to the highest standards. Reperations money would be nothing to play around with.

Denise said: Each African American get a full quarterly accounting of said fund.

African American give to the fund monthly; with about 40 million of Us here; It could be as simple as $1 per person, per month.

10% annually is to pay those We have monitoring the fund...but their pay is tied to their success with the fund.


Mark said: Do you believe that every black person will read thier quarterly statement? Also who would decide who manages the fund as well as other interest of the
black masses in association with reperations. These people managing the funds have got to be monitored along the strictest lines of accountability.


Denise said: A percentage should go to business loans for those of Us who want to open up businesses.... and tie that to community developement... said loans should be low interest or no interest; and may be voided if say the person starts a business that helps the community...

Mark said: This is a Damn good idea. We should make attempts to do this regardless of reperations or not. But Denise dont you think our peple need to be coached up and shown how universal business principle work. Wouldnt it be disaster if we just gave people unskilled in business access to large amounts of capitol.

Denise said:Those who want loans should present blind applications/ business plans...and We have 1 rep from each state that meets 1 time each month or maybe two months who decide on who gets the loan; and make reports as to why they voted the way they did...

10% goes to HBCU's (this is going to be tricky... because most HBCU's are state owned...but it can still work)' but surely to private HBCU's monthly, so that they can start building and serve more of Our kids etc.... and start building new colleges...and programs.... Maybe invest some into trade school education... computer technology and such...

Mark said: This part I am also feeling. But how do we get black people to change thier fundemental attitude toward education. I think we should make education our absolute # 1 priority, meaning from the time black kids are small they should be entered into debate clubs, spelling and reading clubs, ect. We should emphasize education the way we emphasize clothes. How do we do this?

Denise said: Small Home Loans, Low or no interest; or buying up property and selling to Our folk; even housing complexes, and let the tenants buy the property and make their own laws etc...

Mark said: When you say make thier own laws, what if they want laws allowing selling drugs and smoking weed in public? But property ownership is a must for our people.

Denise said:We have to build a whole infrastructure so that Our people can be at peace, for once; and stop feeding people who in the least tolerate Us and at worst hate Us.

Mark said: In order for black people to get along dont we need to work on fundemental way's that we see the world. For example, thier is the male, female issue, thier the rich/ poor, the issue of name calling amongst us, the issue of black men not putting in the same kind of effort as black women, and the lightskin, darkskin issue these are only a few.

By the way I think the whole reperations thing is a Joke I only went because I thought that UgZ needed. However the things you mentioned should be implenmented regardless of reperations. Mark

ugz said...

... comedic and childish concept of reparations being a few dollars going into the decendants of the slaves.

I think I saw the humour-- just so you know...

ugz said...

Field:

I think the credit you are giving our women is due, but I fear that it is being overstated for lack of a better word.

Overkilling the fact that women are playing a role-- I fear-- comes from a notion that women are supposed to stay in the background...

In the face of oppression of the black man, when the black woman plays her part, the same one she had been for centuries, it may seem in the Amerikan culture of "HYPE" something unseen. Wonderous.

African women by extension African American women have been exceptionally strong.

field negro said...

I agree, remember, the Maroons are my favorite people, and the great Maroon warriors were all women.

I honestly don't think I overstate the female contribution to our cause. Believe me, I believe in the strong black woman and her contribution as much as the next person. My mother was an educator, and a woman of vast educational pedigree in the sixties. So I certainly did not grow up thinking women should be in the background of anything.

FN

mark said...

The black woman has truly held Sh#t down. God bless her. Mark

ugz said...

However the things you mentioned should be implenmented regardless of reperations. Mark

: ) In typical marxist popular rhetoric fashion I agree that it
*echo* SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED!!!!

I forgive you for branding NOI as "played out". Mark, nothing is played out. Everything in our past is a lesson to the present. We should be modifying and updating and amending instead of DESTROYING and Rebuilding.

Field:
I remember you pointing to our purchasing power in america. That tells me that we have a staggering amount of money right?!

Although I can not blame my miseducated people for being a victim of predatory selling in a consumer society-- I am amazed on the absence of investment by rich blacks...

Private Universities, Private Hospitals, Private TV Network, Private Urban Elementary, Junior and High Schools.

Lobbying Firms for our interests in the Con gress, United Nations, the EU Parliament, the African Union, South Africa, China and possibly India...

A consortium of the Oprahs and Bill Cosby should offer students scholarship to African American students to go abroad and study become fluent in more than the English language and become an advocate for our struggle in global stage.

What do you think?

mark said...

Ugz said: ) In typical marxist popular rhetoric fashion I agree that it
*echo* SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED!!!!

I forgive you for branding NOI as "played out". Mark, nothing is played out. Everything in our past is a lesson to the present. We should be modifying and updating and

Mark said: Sorry you have to understand that I despise all religions that claim to be the literal word of god over other religions. I have studies enough about several religions to understand that at the end of the day Christians have not one shred of proof of thier religions validity. The same goes for every other religion. Religion has been used to kill more people than any other cause. Also I find the christian right to be sickenly hypocritical and I am headed towards a major debate and dicrediting of them.

Ugz said:Although I can not blame my miseducated people for being a victim of predatory selling in a consumer society-- I am amazed on the absence of investment by rich blacks...

Mark said: It is amazing that more rich black people dont invest more money directly into the black community. But shouldnt this investment include measures taking by the average black person to perpetually educate oneself. So as to stay in tuned with current way's of doing business

mark said...

Ugz said: ) In typical marxist popular rhetoric fashion I agree that it
*echo* SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED!!!!

I forgive you for branding NOI as "played out". Mark, nothing is played out. Everything in our past is a lesson to the present. We should be modifying and updating and

Mark said: Sorry you have to understand that I despise all religions that claim to be the literal word of god over other religions. I have studies enough about several religions to understand that at the end of the day Christians have not one shred of proof of thier religions validity. The same goes for every other religion. Religion has been used to kill more people than any other cause. Also I find the christian right to be sickenly hypocritical and I am headed towards a major debate and dicrediting of them.

Ugz said:Although I can not blame my miseducated people for being a victim of predatory selling in a consumer society-- I am amazed on the absence of investment by rich blacks...

Mark said: It is amazing that more rich black people dont invest more money directly into the black community. But shouldnt this investment include measures taking by the average black person to perpetually educate oneself. So as to stay in tuned with current way's of doing business

ugz said...

Kudos in your journey of tackling the christian right...

Mark, I absolutely agree that the average black should look into where his or her money goes. Nevertheless, here there are two problems:

1. The commodification of resources man made and natural, blur the line between Needs and Wants. My cousin is confused between her Need or her Want of a plasma TV. And this is a 24 years old college graduate.

2. The lack of rich blacks investing their money in our community, denies the average black the ALTERNATE OPTION.

This loss- loss cycle can not be broken unless the rich black takes a risk and initiative to wake the masses of poor blacks from their slumber.

In the short term, the rich black will not gain profit or possibly even lose money but in the long run, all parties benefit.

field negro said...

Yes, I do believe that we should invest more and spend less. That has been the problem with our people since day one. We have all heard the statements, that the dollar lasts an average of two hours in the black community and 48 hours in the Asian communities---or something like that. Anyway, learning to invest should be a priority for us, then we would have disposable income to invest in some of the positive things we are posting about.

Maybe it's just me, but I sure see a lot of black parents sppending money on $100 sneakers, and $200 leather jackets when something half as cheep would do just fine. The whole marketing to pepople of color is a billion dollar industry and we have bought into it hook, line, and sinker.(See McDonald's)

Bottom line, we should be smarter consumers, and less gullible to the influences of the market place.

FN

mark said...

Ugz said: The lack of rich blacks investing their money in our community, denies the average black the ALTERNATE OPTION.

Mark said: This is true but its not just rich black that are at fault. Even poor people can orginize and do things to make thier community better things such as getting the drug dealers off the neighborhood streets. Or cleaning up. Or creating fun educational safehavens for kids who want to learn. It wouldnt take more than a few hours a week to keep our neighborhoods clean if everyone chipped in. Feild Negro is correct about the excessive spending on clothes. This is something that annoys almost more than anything else about us. I believe this comes from a shallowness produce by a lack of education. Whatever it is that makes too many black folk think that clothes are more important than saving for the kids education or a down payment on one's own property should be address. Please dont forget the women who can spend 10 hours sometimes longer getting thier done but they dont have time to read to thier kids at night, this needs to be addressed. Education is also of great importance because all of this investments and projects require people who are supremely competent at making investment and watching money. I think its important to deal with underlying problems affecting us like this negativity that permeates our culture. I believe that it is harder to be a smart or gifted black person than in any other culture in america. From my experience in the black community scholarship is ignored or riddiculed. What's that all about? . Whatever it is that makes us emphasize fashion over scholarship needs to be thoroughly debated. Defeated and changed. mark

P.S Field Negro check out Cobb's blog he responded to your satirical article on W Bush.

field negro said...

I saw that, and I actually thought of responding to him becaause he takes some sly shots at me. But honestly, I respect the guys intellect, although he seems to be a little to much in the red (republican) camp for my liking. I know a lot of people think that I am a democrat-because I seem to take more shots at repubs- but I am not, I like to think of myself as an independent. And when you are of the mind set as I am, it's hard having a meaningful debate with someone who is locked into their own political ideology.

But I will probably engage Cobb at some point, it should be interesting.

ugz said...

FN:

Have you read any Frantz Fanon?

mark said...

FN are you and Cobb having a blog battle. Can we expect shots at family members and friends. When you and Cobb battle do you guys wear oversized ridiculous gold chains, can we expect tussles between the 2 of yalls blog entourages. Are you 2 gonna keep it real by trading pistol shots? Mark

P.S Ugz I havent forgot about your insolence from the other day. I still intend to deal with you. Peace

mark said...

Fn I told Cobb that he was drinking to much of that W bush kool aid and it would make him sick in the long run. He has a post called G.W. Reported card as far as Im concernced its bullshit. Evenutally Im going to have to check him, because he is spreading propoganda. Mark

field negro said...

Yes ugz, my sister turned me on to Fannon when I was a kid. "The Wretched Of The Earth" is still one of my favorite books of all time.

No Mark, we are not having a battle, at least I don't think so-maybe an ideological one- but so far it has been above board. Like I said, I respect the brother, and he seems to be sincere with his beliefs-misguided, but sincere. Anyway, I will let you battle him :) Just don't be too hard on the brother, I know how heavy you can get. Everyone isn't as sharp as ugz, and can battle you point for point.

But honestly, I get a kick out of reading the posts between you two. Someone ought to make a book and publish your exchanges :)


FN

mark said...

Look I apologize if I have been a little persistant. The reason why Im annoyed is because I have tried to respond to some of his rubuttals. but when I ask that brotha question after question this is wat I get in return.

"Collectively we are too poor to have family business or investments to show and teach our kids Money and time management. Nevertheless mom and dad teach us how to survive".

you call this ill prepared. How can you expect all of a sudden a collective poor 30 million blacks to recognize their childrens God given ability." Ugz.

Oh man how rich. I have heard that before. But Anyway, in my oppinion he absolves blacks of to much, and is alway's blaming the man. But offers no solutions. Then he throws religion out there which is my all time favorite target. targets. And oh what soft, tender ripe target is in my oppinion. I am looking for the truth no matter where I go or blog. I have been over at LaShawn Barbers and I dont like how she bashes black folk and without offering any alternative. A part of me thinks she dosent care about black people.Im almost ready to say that she is a religious zealot. I think the whole christian right are hypocrits. Remember how they Demonized Bill Clinton, democrats, non christians, and anyone who didnt follow the company line. Isnt that the only reason why "frat boy" as field negro calls him is in the white house. If the right had not played the clinton, moral, liberal and christian cards hypocritally "Frat Boy" wouldnt be in 1600 Penn ave and I suspect field Negro and other on this blog know that. I want to bring balance to the rights lies and hypocrisy. Its not enough to call LaShawn Barber a house negro, or a sell out. You gotta refute her bullshit point by point in civil debate. You have to intellectually crush them the way Malcom X use to crus white folk on tv. But Yall dont hear though. Anyway your boy Ugz who I like threw some religion out there and I gotta bring balance and truth to his propoganda. However if anyone proves Im wrong Ill admit it. Like I said before Im not on web to make anyone feel comfortable especially if they cant think. Im not even on the web to make myself feel comfortable. I go where the truth leads me. But just to show Ugz that Im not such a bad guy. Ill finally say what he wants to hear. The white man is the devil. The white man is the devil. The white man is the devil. Mark

field negro said...

Mark do you really think if I went point counter point with someone like LaShawn Barber, or Cobb for that matter it would change how they view the world and their agenda?

I don't think so, these people are ideologues and no matter how much truth you spit to them it won't make one bit of difference, they aint changing. Barber is even worse, because she combines her craziness with religion.-a toxic mix, you see what happens with theocratic countries like Iran and Afghanistan, but I digress- The point is, this is why I put the house- negro label on these individuals, because it wont make a difference with them, they are one trick ponies and no matter how many good ideas you give them, they will always go back to that same trick. Massa's ice is colder, and his sugar is sweeter.

I would rather debate with people who welcome ideas and offer change and solutions for the better. Not just because it fits their ideology, but because it's best for our people period.

FN

mark said...

Field Negro said:Mark do you really think if I went point counter point with someone like LaShawn Barber, or Cobb for that matter it would change how they view the world and their agenda?


Mark said: Your right she is an ideolog and she's not going to recognize anything questions prior beliefs. Cobb is drinking the G Bush ( yuck). However we are not only prepparing for them.We are also getting ready to defend our(black) people's interest. But Ill be straight up with you. I dont think we are ever going to improve unless we really focus on what we can improve now and move towards. Dont know if you know it or not but there getting ready to make all of these immigrants legal. These cats are willing to put in 18 hour days in 100 degree weather. They have no problem with working, because in thier land things are worse than here for black people. If folks wont admit that we have dysfunctions holding us back , how can we correct them. Our attitude towards education is not where it needs to be for whatever reason. When they make these illegals legal, who are willing to work together, who are willing to give thier own kind jobs and support. If we dont change soon we are going to be in big trouble. Regardless of who is responsible. I see it as an emergency. Do you have workable Ideas. We can firgure this out but I believe its going to be painful, are we willing to suffer that pain. At my job we had a pool, everyone gave 100 bucks every payday. Each week a different person got to collect around $700, thats enough to make a move. We could start investment clubs just like this. Reading, writing, and learning should be heavily promoted. Business skill taught from the age of 5 to grown. Along with a heavy dose of transparency and fairplay all across the world. Unfair play, cheating or stealing from the group must be policed at once by the group. We have such improvesional depth that we can figure this shit out. It just takes due dillegence. Mark

ugz said...

Field:
I deeply apologize for testing you on reading Fanon. I know how much it means to you being in the Field. Will Never do that again.

LOL, and on his blog, Dell practically called me an HN. Say, Field, my mask must be working.

Mark:
As you think, I absolve Blacks, IMO, you blame us too much. We are on separate ends of the same intention. Furthermore, I fear you speak more from experience and emotion rather than scientific, socio-political or economical platforms. although there's Nothing wrong with that, I just feel that you are losing balance thats all.

denise said...

Mark;
then let's start....how We going to communicate?
we needed to start 10 years ago; and to be quite honest about what you said about immigration...
they are already here; i don't know if they are going to get legalized...and with the animous coming from the majority of the White community (who are rightfully looking out for their own best self-interest); and all these laws that are popping up all over the place - we'll see... but yes, We have to get to work....

I am busy right now, trying to compose a letter to several agencies that are working with Katrina Victims.... if, Black folks' bullshit detectors were on tilt about Nagin in 2001/2 - he got something like 10% of the vote, then how in the hell if after he basically watch them suffer for a week, can they know turn around and vote for him?????

We are going to see Katrina's all over the U.S. where Blacks reside.

Ugz, you too, We need your voice too... and how do We build?

Mark, I really liked your educational spiel... I have some ideas and would like to expand on it.

Mark, I am waiting... Me, You, Ugz and FN talk the talk, let's see what We got... do We walk the walk?

mark said...

Denise said: Mark;
then let's start....how We going to communicate?
we needed to start 10 years ago; and to be quite honest about what you said about immigration...
they are already here; i don't know if they are going to get legalized...and with the animous coming from the majority of the White community (who are rightfully looking out for their own best self-interest); and all these laws that are popping up all over the place - we'll see... but yes, We have to get to work....


Here is an Idea I had a couple of months ago. Since the people of new orleans need to be back home working. Why cant companies like walmart, grocery stores, lowes, set up temporary stores in and around the city of new orleans. To

1) Bring back folks displaced by the hurricane to work and rebuild.

2) To sell the material folks need to rebuild. lets say you get

3) To bring back ? 40 thousand of the residents displaced. employed that way.

4)The resident would also serve as as the market for musician, and other traditional New Orleans entertainment.

5) We could set up tourism specific business ran by returnign residents.
6) We should teach them english, reading and business skill.

7) We could orginize large scale volunteer clean up and rebuild days of the lower 9th ward and the rest or New Orleans. Im talking about 10 20 thousand volunteers. For something like that you have to have some orginization like the military to assest with logics, water, ect. Red cross, ect.

8) We could also try to orginize a fundraiser with star talent. To specifically rebuild New Orleans.

Denise said: I am busy right now, trying to compose a letter to several agencies that are working with Katrina Victims.... if, Black folks' bullshit detectors were on tilt about Nagin in 2001/2 - he got something like 10% of the vote, then how in the hell if after he basically watch them suffer for a week, can they know turn around and vote for him?????



Mark said: Those orginization need to find some money for or initiate some business skillz programs in my oppinion.
I dont think he watched them suffer because he didnt care. I think they werent preppared, I believe that dude is incompetent. Although that is only my oppinion I could be wrong. Anyway denise check out a song we did in dedication to survivers of the huricane. www.overthewallpromotions.com

Denise said: I really liked your educational spiel... I have some ideas and would like to expand on it.

Mark said: Its all about education, we will never be able to compete unless we change our attitude about education in my oppinion. This is the part of the equation I am worried about. Mark

field negro said...

Denise, I am trying to walk the walk. I am involved with community groups,educational and mentoring groups, as well as trying to put my $ where my mouth is. Having said that, I know it's not enough and a real plan is needed. I go to all these symposiums, focus groups, and meetings and it seems like all we do is talk.

Bottom line, I guess we have to start somewhere, and there are some of us out here trying; but it just seems like such a daunting task. I guess that's why it helps to communicate with the likes of you guys, because at least it gives us encouragment.

FN

denise said...

FN,
alot of Us are doing just what you said you are doing; it is just time to say okay, now lets do.

yes, it seems daunting, but wasn't slavery daunting? wasn't jim crow racism daunting?

don't get me wrong, i understand what you are saying...

why can't we start?

the only way to get a plan is to start devising one, and them hashing it out...then go to all these groups or find those "in charge" and say, We have a plan or an idea...

the only way to get it done is to start doing it.

mark said...

We can start and we should. Scholar ship and family should be promoted above all.

The most urgent need is to work with young black men.
We should try to reprogram them to be more well rounded.

One way we can directly work with young black men is within youth employment programs.

These programs would be conducted during thier regular job, schedule

During 9-12 we would give these guys tutoring, mentorship, a heavy dose of putting family first. .

I think we should create a jobs business,life training program focused at reprograming black men.

Most major cities already have summer youth job programs, 2 years ago I conducted a summer youth job program. Aparently thier were thousands of kids who didnt get to work there was no placement for them. Meaning they had the money but no one would take the youth.

We should have the church working extremely dillegently on preaching about family, hosting things like spelling bees, tutoring and mentoring during the week. Business programs. The church needs to take a more unified and proactive stance against some of the ills in our community. As disgusted with them as I am, they are they only black orginization with the clout, the infracture and the experience thousands of churches have been doing some of the things were talking about for over 100 years. They are an enourmous resorce. Individuals such as ourselves can come up with plans and ideas on how to combat our dysfuntions. We should deffinately use the church to promote whatever we are trying to focus on.Some issues the church should also work on is

getting black men back into thier families lives.

Being productive.
Educating themselves.

Bieng faithful to thier wives and families.

Getting black parents to start going to Pta meetings,

reading to thier kids at night.

Taking pride in thier education.

Rewarding and encourage good grades from thier children.


Making thier kids do thier homework every single night. Mark Ill give more info later

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