The jury is all women and they are all White with the exception of one Hispanic woman who, in all probably, is sympathetic to George Zimmerman because he too is Hispanic.
This short video link tells what the jury's verdict will probably be:
Zimmerman followed Martin. Martin knew he was being followed. Zimmerman got out of the car after being told not to. Zimmerman had his gun out. Martin saw the gun. There was a fight, and Zimmerman shot Martin. Manslaughter.
Anonymous Anonymous said... "Field, you forgot to post context to explain your photo. Please explain. Thanks." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *sigh* roll eyes*
No, there won't be a manslaughter verdict. Zimmerman will walk a free man because he had a right to defend himself...this comes under Stand Your Ground.
Blogger Desertflower said... Anonymous Anonymous said... "Field, you forgot to post context to explain your photo. Please explain. Thanks." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *sigh* roll eyes*
LOL! some people!
This is self explanatory Anon! Puleeezee! :)))
10:39 PM -------------------------- No it is not! I've asked my-self several times what the hell does a photo with JURY written on it mean? Well, I get no answer. Field needs to explain what it is he is trying to say.
We can only pray that God will illuminate the jury so that justice is served.
Because after all, GOD and GZ are the only ones that saw what happened that night.
And we know GZ is a liar with an aggressive past and a police record for the following crimes:
1. Selling liquor to minors at a party.
2. Assaulting the police officer who intervened with him on that occasion.
3. Picking up and smashing a drunk young lady against the floor, thus breaking her ankle, when he was a security guard for private activities. Much to the horror of those present.
4. Assault and battery of his former live in girlfriend resulting in another court case and a protective order against him as well as court ordered rage control classes.
and whatever else his dearest MAGISTRATE daddy has managed to cover up, which will never come to light!
And we do all know how that rolls now don't we??? ;)
The criminal here was always GZ.
But he was constantly projecting on to others his own personality disorders.
Anonymous Anonymous said... No it is not! I've asked my-self several times what the hell does a photo with JURY written on it mean? Well, I get no answer. Field needs to explain what it is he is trying to say. Wait. Is this Ebonics? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He's not 'trying' to say, he said it!
I've said that this was a manslaughter case from the beginning. There just isn't enough evidence of a depraved heart for most juries to convict on Murder II
But he was constantly projecting on to others his own personality disorders."
11:04 PM ---------------- Desert, you are a very prejudiced person and it is messing with your logic. You just said, "God and GZ were the only ones that saw what happened that night." Then a sentence or two later you are talking as if you saw what happened that night....Oh wait...Are YOU the GOD you are talking about?
11:11 PM -------------------- I see no need in watching TV. It clutters the mind with junk. Of course, folks like you and other FN Negroes are addicts when it comes to watching TV. Again, it clutters the mind. It's unhealthy. But TV junkies like yourself can't 'stop'.
Statistics have shown that Blacks watch TV an average of 6-8 hours a day. That's a damn shame.
I just turned on the TV for the first time in 5 years. Nothing much has changed, except Rev Al Sharpton. He has lost a tremendous amount of weight. He doesn't look healthy. His head is bigger than his body. Does anybody know what is wrong?
"The thing is, the incidents were not allowed in as evidence, which I think was unfair."
All of Zimmerman's past-recent violent altercations should have been allowed into court, they were factual and relevant to his violent unstable character. But even with his known track record, the racist and willfully illogical fan chanters still wants us to believe that Zimmerman miraculously played the part of a choir boy that night.
And don't forget, Zimmerman's cousin who claimed that he molested and bullied her in the past. I guess she's a liar or she "asked for it" too.
La♥audiobooks said... "All of Zimmerman's past-recent violent altercations should have been allowed into court, they were factual and relevant to his violent unstable character." "And don't forget, Zimmerman's cousin who claimed that he molested and bullied her in the past. I guess she's a liar or she "asked for it" too." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I know, I just don't understand why this wasn't allowed :(
chamblee54 said... http://chamblee54.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/gfjury01.jpg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nice blog. Love the old photos too!
Desertflower said... I don't know about that Whitey's.
I think there was plenty of depravity there if you analyze his long list of transgressions and aggressions.
The thing is, the incidents were not allowed in as evidence, which I think was unfair.
Don't you think this clearly speaks to his aggressive and bullying character?
----
Sorry DF, like our Fieldhost I'm a lawyer, and I primarily look at the evidence in front of a jury when the jury's out. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the prosecution, after winning the right to do so, then decline to put Mr. Zimmerman's other calls about young black men into evidence? That was the strongest depraved heart evidence I saw in the case and it isn't in front of this jury. Without it, there's no depraved heart -it's just 2 individuals outside it's obvious racial context.
Now on a personal level? While I can understand how a soft pudgy wannabe cop might get himself into a "use it or lose it" situation over his strap-on manhood in a neighborhood-watch gone wrong scenario, I also see more deliberation, and a definite pattern of racial animosity on Mr. Zimmerman's part than that. In fact his actions seem so sinister from a teenager's viewpoint that I'm disappointed that no one pointed out Travon Martin's obvious right to defend himself (until closing rebuttal) as I have no doubt that at some point Trayvon knew that he was fighting for HIS life.
I think that the prosecution made a political decision not to pursue a racial animosity theory, as they explicitly disclaimed it in rebuttal. They're afraid they'll be accused of stoking a fire, but this is America where EVERYTHING is really about race. After all, if an armed black man had killed a white child armed with only candy after stalking him we all know it would have been open & shut and never made any of our radars.
I did not know the prosecution had declined to put on those calls.
It always did seem as though they wanted to defuse it, so as not to as you say "stoke a fire"
Either way, I don't think there will be any violence or riots.
However the underlying sense of impotence and anger on BOTH sides, will continue to fester and rear it's ugly head like the symptom of a greater condition that it is.
Just to clarify DF, I've thought all along that it was a Manslaughter case instead of M II because of the logical leaps that a jury has to make from so few inferences; even with the prior calls in. I never meant that Zimmerman hadn't done M II.
First degree murder is a planned or premeditated murder.
Second degree murder means that it was intentional,but not premeditated.
Manslaughter is death caused by extreme indifference to human life, such as a drunk driver killing a pedestrian or someone shooting into the air and killing an innocent bystander.
If you ask me, unfortunately this with all of GZ's past evidence presented, would fit the murder one description.
Why? Because it seems as though he's been itching to kill someone for awhile now.
He was full of rage and hatred. That's premeditation is it not.
Great question DF. In descending order of culpability:
Murder is the intentional killing of one human being by another with malice aforethought. In first degree murder there has to be clear planning (often inferred by the means of death). Second degree murder is unplanned, but with malice aforethought. In felony murder, charged also as Murder II, the malice is assumed. It also encompasses what is called "depraved heart" murder, behavior so reckless and regardless of human life that intent can be inferred from the very act. (eg Posting targets on your suburban fence and shooting into them without regard to neighbors.) Mr. Zimmerman's jury was charged with standard Murder II, and thus has to find on the evidence presented that he intentionally killed Trayvon Martin with malice forethought, but no planning.
Voluntary manslaughter is more culpable than involuntary, it is usually "heat of passion" type killing. A (bar fight or some other) circumstance where you are trying to hurt someone else, possibly with provocation, and end up killing that person. It can also be "imperfect self defense" the first theory under which Mr. Zimmerman's jury was charged where he UNREASONABLY believed that he had to shoot Travon Martin to save himself. (my bet for the verdict)
Involuntary manslaughter is the least culpable level of criminal homicide, most commonly charged to the jury on a "gross negligence" theory where reckless actions lead to death -this is the second manslaughter theory under which Zimmerman's jury was charged. Next most common IVM is the Misdomeanor-manslaughter rule, the concomitant to the felony-murder rule where accidental killing during the commission of a crime is charged as a catagorical crime. Give a clerk a heart attack during a robbery, a felony, and it's murder II, while shoplifting, a misdo & it's manslaughter. Fatal DUIs are usually charged under both theories.
I've always seen this as an clear by the elements imperfect self defense case (nor stand-your-ground) and this was why I thought the police were so wrong to let Mr. Zimmerman go on the night of the killing, but with only one living witness to the event, proving intent and malice rests on inferences, and juries don't often make those jumps with a competent defense and clear guilt on a lesser charge.
My own personal bottom line is that when you bring a gun into your home, you're bringing death into your home. When you strap on a gun, you strap on death. It could be yours or someone else's, but you've decided to live intimately with potential death. You can hardly be surprised when death does come to visit, with all of it's consequences.
OK DF I've got this one too: the jury instructions (the jury's "charge" in legalese) are the only guidance that jurors get on the law. they have to interpret them for themselves. Anything else would mean a mistrial. Often, confusion reigns. That's why I always base my closing argument on the jury-instruction so that the jurors know exactly what I wants them to think about them.
Smart WC! They are obviously confused but want to get this done! What I would be afraid of would be that out of frustration and ignorance of the law, they just pick anything!
I can understand your point of view on guns. They def are synonymous with death.
But there are many homes in rural America and here where a gun is an element of survival, yes still in this day and age. :)
People that have crops often have marauding animals that the only way they can get rid of is by shooting them. Otherwise you lose that food supply or if you were planning on selling the crops for the kids school clothes etc...
Many people still hunt for their meat supply and prefer it that way.
Also the ownership of a gun for protection does not necessarily mean that you will ever use it. You may never have to.
If you live in a country where most everyone s armed and you're not, you lose.
Responsible gun ownership does not mean that you strap it on and carry it around. Unless say you have a ton of money on you as with a businessman and you're going to the bank with it. that's also done a lot here.
Lawyers also carry here for obvious reasons.
I have never ever heard of a gun accident here. Never. I must say that the legal gun owners here are very responsible.
The shootings that we do have are intentional ones by the criminal element, and when they know you are armed they do stay away.
So I see guns as something to respect but in some cases very necesary and not to be feared.
As a tool, if you will for survival, not as a tool for bullying or killing vigilante style like you know who ;p
Then again, having said that, I must also qualify by adding that we here life in small communities, where one neighbor watches the goings on of the other and we kind of keep each other in check.
There is a saying here "Cada cual sabe de la pata que el otro cojea"
Naturally it loses in translation but roughly: "Each one knows the leg that the other one is limping on"
Or, 'we know what your weakness and strength are, and if we don't likeee you are outeee of the community my friend':) and of course this can be accomplished in many different ways.
Geraldo has commented several times that Zimmerman will walk a free man. I agree. I don't see any other outcome.
This whole thing was a set up in court. The prosecution did not make enough effort for Justice be done for TM.
Desert, you are a fool if you think Zimmerman will be charged with 'manslaughter'. This Florida and there are 5 white jurors and 1 Hispanic. And, they are women.
Perhaps I should have said "handgun." DF, but then again, back in 1980, a couple of young men who I'd gone to high-school with, at a time and place where rifles and shotguns in gunracks or tool boxes weren't odd or unknown, got into a fight at a secluded spot where we all swam at the local river. The fellow getting the worst of it made it to his pickup and got a deer rifle out of his toolbox intending, he swore, just to threaten the guy beating him up and end the fight. Except that the other guy wasn't buying it, couldn't believe that the guy with the rifle was even being such a punk about an ass-whipping and made as if to take it away, and ended up with the back half of his chest blown all over the drunken crowd cheering him on. Neither of those families were ever the same after that. Marriages died, addictions developed, sides were taken that ended quite a few friendships.
I was a Marine, an 8th (straight) Award Expert Rifleman; I grew up hunting bear, deer and birds behind dogs with my dad; while I haven't been hunting since my 30s, I plan on going to my buddy's deer-camp this Fall weather to hunt or just camp with old friends I haven't decided yet. I've even used a .22 pistol still in my butchering kit as I write on livestock. I understand that they're tools. But only when they're treated as tools, dangerous tools, not when they're treated as strap-on manhood, not as some "state of nature" "survival of the fittest" fantasy or political talisman. Those uses lead inexorably to human death that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Those uses embrace death as a constant companion.
I guess I will forever just be a silly idealist huh :(
Now they can take him home and buy him another gun and that cowboy hat and star badge,oh and some nice chaps might be in order. Who know maybe a horse, a "patrol" horse???
I do believe I told you all Zimmerman wouldn't be convicted. The prosecutor NEVER had a case because this vigilante wasn't arrested the night he shot the boy.
Blogger Whitey's Conspiracy said... He'll die with that child's blood still on his hands. Worst prosecution I've seen in years; the B team in action.
10:14 PM ---------------------- As I said during the trial: the prosecution was there to "throw" the case so Zimmerman could walk a free man. In addition, the Jurors were WHITE, WITH ONE HISPANIC. What did you expect, a "fair trial?" No prosecution would have settled for that, UNLESS, it had planned to lose!
Anyway, it's Florida. No AA will EVER get a fair trial. Hell, Blacks are lucky if they get to vote there.
Yep you get more time for killing dogs then killing a young brother. I love the comment on 10:40pm. I'm going to use that on some wingnut sites right now.
Yes, we all know that blacks would never band together and riot if something did not go their way, as the author of this diatribe stated, "All the people implying that blacks would riot like a bunch of savages." History has repeatedly proven that this would not, or could not happen. Right? Trayvon certainly was not a Saint or even as Saintly as the pictures of him at age 12 or so, that were used in an effort to manipulate the jurors, would imply. That being said, he still did not deserve what happened to him, but our system of justice has spoken. A lynch mob mentality is not the answer. Just as in the O.J. Simpson case, apparently the Zimmerman Attorney's argued a more cogent position for their Client's acquittal than did the Prosecution for his imprisonment. Hate to bring up the Simpson case, but it, like the Blake case, set up precedent for horseshit juror of your peers verdicts. Blacks, Whites, Yellows and Browns.....get used to it, it's all we have and in reality while not a perfect system of Justice, would you rather it be more like that of China?
Field, I am an avid reader of your blog and recommend it to my family and friends. Your commnets are always insightful. I was reading your latest post and agree with everything you said about Shelby Steele. But it seems like you brought what the defense was peddling about Trayvon Martin hook, line and sinker when you said and continued with, "Trayvon threw the first punch and then continued pummeling the much smaller Zimmerman. Yes, Trayvon was a kid, but he was also something of a menace First, there were no witnesses to who threw the first punch. Please tell me why is Trayvon a menance? Second, Zimmerman was a GROWN MAN with a hatred of these black as-holes who always get away with it. Plus, he had a loaded 9mm. You need to reassess your position on this for real. Zimmerman had also been arrested before but that was not allowed to be introduced into evidence. Let's not forget Trayvon did have a right to Stand his ground. Please let's stop demonizing and criminalizing our young black teenagers. While we're at it, let's stop defending these white folks when they are wrong. They damn sure don't do it for us. They prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
Field, you forgot to post context to explain your photo. Please explain. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThe jury is all women and they are all White with the exception of one Hispanic woman who, in all probably, is sympathetic to George Zimmerman because he too is Hispanic.
ReplyDeleteThis short video link tells what the jury's verdict will probably be:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/geraldo-rivera-george-zimmerman-jury-trayvon-martin_n_3585911.html
Zimmerman followed Martin. Martin knew he was being followed. Zimmerman got out of the car after being told not to. Zimmerman had his gun out. Martin saw the gun. There was a fight, and Zimmerman shot Martin.
ReplyDeleteManslaughter.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Field, you forgot to post context to explain your photo. Please explain. Thanks."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*sigh* roll eyes*
LOL! some people!
This is self explanatory Anon! Puleeezee! :)))
No, there won't be a manslaughter verdict. Zimmerman will walk a free man because he had a right to defend himself...this comes under Stand Your Ground.
ReplyDeleteThe jury has requested a list of all of the evidence and has gone home for the night!
ReplyDeleteThey must be so happy to be sleeping in their own beds tonight!
They will continue deliberations tomorrow which I thought they would have the weekend off.
I think six people is too few!
Blogger Desertflower said...
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Anonymous said...
"Field, you forgot to post context to explain your photo. Please explain. Thanks."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*sigh* roll eyes*
LOL! some people!
This is self explanatory Anon! Puleeezee! :)))
10:39 PM
--------------------------
No it is not! I've asked my-self several times what the hell does a photo with JURY written on it mean? Well, I get no answer. Field needs to explain what it is he is trying to say.
Wait. Is this Ebonics?
"I think six people is too few!"
ReplyDeleteWell, five white women and one hispanic woman is plenty to set Zimmerman free. No need for more.
I am amazed that people think this jury is an impartial fair jury. This is a win win for Zimmerman. He will not be charged for anything.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/geraldo-rivera-george-zimmerman-jury-trayvon-martin_n_3585911.html
We can only pray that God will illuminate the jury so that justice is served.
ReplyDeleteBecause after all, GOD and GZ are the only ones that saw what happened that night.
And we know GZ is a liar with an aggressive past and a police record for the following crimes:
1. Selling liquor to minors at a party.
2. Assaulting the police officer who intervened with him on that occasion.
3. Picking up and smashing a drunk young lady against the floor, thus breaking her ankle, when he was a security guard for private activities. Much to the horror of those present.
4. Assault and battery of his former live in girlfriend resulting in another court case and a protective order against him as well as court ordered rage control classes.
and whatever else his dearest MAGISTRATE daddy has managed to cover up, which will never come to light!
And we do all know how that rolls now don't we??? ;)
The criminal here was always GZ.
But he was constantly projecting on to others his own personality disorders.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteNo it is not! I've asked my-self several times what the hell does a photo with JURY written on it mean? Well, I get no answer. Field needs to explain what it is he is trying to say.
Wait. Is this Ebonics?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He's not 'trying' to say, he said it!
Anon, you really should watch more news on TV!
I've said that this was a manslaughter case from the beginning. There just isn't enough evidence of a depraved heart for most juries to convict on Murder II
ReplyDeleteI don't know about that Whitey's.
ReplyDeleteI think there was plenty of depravity there if you analyze his long list of transgressions and aggressions.
The thing is, the incidents were not allowed in as evidence, which I think was unfair.
Don't you think this clearly speaks to his aggressive and bullying character?
The man has a record.
Desert, "The criminal here was always GZ.
ReplyDeleteBut he was constantly projecting on to others his own personality disorders."
11:04 PM
----------------
Desert, you are a very prejudiced person and it is messing with your logic. You just said, "God and GZ were the only ones that saw what happened that night." Then a sentence or two later you are talking as if you saw what happened that night....Oh wait...Are YOU the GOD you are talking about?
Desert, "He's not 'trying' to say, he said it!
ReplyDeleteAnon, you really should watch more news on TV!"
11:11 PM
--------------------
I see no need in watching TV. It clutters the mind with junk. Of course, folks like you and other FN Negroes are addicts when it comes to watching TV. Again, it clutters the mind. It's unhealthy. But TV junkies like yourself can't 'stop'.
Statistics have shown that Blacks watch TV an average of 6-8 hours a day. That's a damn shame.
I just turned on the TV for the first time in 5 years. Nothing much has changed, except Rev Al Sharpton. He has lost a tremendous amount of weight. He doesn't look healthy. His head is bigger than his body. Does anybody know what is wrong?
ReplyDelete@Anon: Hahahahaha...I must say you do have your funny moments!
ReplyDeletehttp://chamblee54.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/gfjury01.jpg
ReplyDelete"The thing is, the incidents were not allowed in as evidence, which I think was unfair."
ReplyDeleteAll of Zimmerman's past-recent violent altercations should have been allowed into court, they were factual and relevant to his violent unstable character. But even with his known track record, the racist and willfully illogical fan chanters still wants us to believe that Zimmerman miraculously played the part of a choir boy that night.
And don't forget, Zimmerman's cousin who claimed that he molested and bullied her in the past. I guess she's a liar or she "asked for it" too.
La♥audiobooks said...
ReplyDelete"All of Zimmerman's past-recent violent altercations should have been allowed into court, they were factual and relevant to his violent unstable character."
"And don't forget, Zimmerman's cousin who claimed that he molested and bullied her in the past. I guess she's a liar or she "asked for it" too."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know, I just don't understand why this wasn't allowed :(
chamblee54 said...
ReplyDeletehttp://chamblee54.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/gfjury01.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nice blog. Love the old photos too!
Desertflower said...
ReplyDeleteI don't know about that Whitey's.
I think there was plenty of depravity there if you analyze his long list of transgressions and aggressions.
The thing is, the incidents were not allowed in as evidence, which I think was unfair.
Don't you think this clearly speaks to his aggressive and bullying character?
----
Sorry DF, like our Fieldhost I'm a lawyer, and I primarily look at the evidence in front of a jury when the jury's out. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the prosecution, after winning the right to do so, then decline to put Mr. Zimmerman's other calls about young black men into evidence? That was the strongest depraved heart evidence I saw in the case and it isn't in front of this jury. Without it, there's no depraved heart -it's just 2 individuals outside it's obvious racial context.
Now on a personal level? While I can understand how a soft pudgy wannabe cop might get himself into a "use it or lose it" situation over his strap-on manhood in a neighborhood-watch gone wrong scenario, I also see more deliberation, and a definite pattern of racial animosity on Mr. Zimmerman's part than that. In fact his actions seem so sinister from a teenager's viewpoint that I'm disappointed that no one pointed out Travon Martin's obvious right to defend himself (until closing rebuttal) as I have no doubt that at some point Trayvon knew that he was fighting for HIS life.
I think that the prosecution made a political decision not to pursue a racial animosity theory, as they explicitly disclaimed it in rebuttal. They're afraid they'll be accused of stoking a fire, but this is America where EVERYTHING is really about race. After all, if an armed black man had killed a white child armed with only candy after stalking him we all know it would have been open & shut and never made any of our radars.
I did not know the prosecution had declined to put on those calls.
ReplyDeleteIt always did seem as though they wanted to defuse it, so as not to as you say "stoke a fire"
Either way, I don't think there will be any violence or riots.
However the underlying sense of impotence and anger on BOTH sides, will continue to fester and rear it's ugly head like the symptom of a greater condition that it is.
TY for explaining the post for me Desert. I try, but it's hard sometimes.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, we wait....
BTW, I agree that six jurors does not seem like a lot of people for a murder case, but hey, that's Florida. :)
This should make the wait for a verdict a little shorter.
I will post something about the trial AFTER the verdict.
Six jurors is six too many.
ReplyDeleteWhy should a bunch of dimwit amateurs with with no legal training, who probably hate me just by looking at me decide if I am innocent or guilty?
Completely ridiculous system.
I found this new skin whitening product and wanted to share it with everyone!!! Check it out at http://4a35a7szl0ly0ktppf1to9u6fj.hop.clickbank.net/
ReplyDelete"I found this new skin whitening product and wanted to share it with everyone!!! Check it out at"
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you just drink it?
Just to clarify DF, I've thought all along that it was a Manslaughter case instead of M II because of the logical leaps that a jury has to make from so few inferences; even with the prior calls in. I never meant that Zimmerman hadn't done M II.
ReplyDeleteI did get that WC :)
ReplyDeleteThe thing with me is that I get confused as to the fine details of what differentiates Manslaughter and MII.
But They did say that the Manslaughter could carry a longer sentence.
Found out that:
ReplyDeleteFirst degree murder is a planned or premeditated murder.
Second degree murder means that it was intentional,but not premeditated.
Manslaughter is death caused by extreme indifference to human life, such as a drunk driver killing a pedestrian or someone shooting into the air and killing an innocent bystander.
If you ask me, unfortunately this with all of GZ's past evidence presented, would fit the murder one description.
Why? Because it seems as though he's been itching to kill someone for awhile now.
He was full of rage and hatred. That's premeditation is it not.
Great question DF. In descending order of culpability:
ReplyDeleteMurder is the intentional killing of one human being by another with malice aforethought. In first degree murder there has to be clear planning
(often inferred by the means of death). Second degree murder is unplanned, but with malice aforethought. In felony murder, charged also as Murder II, the malice is assumed. It also encompasses what is called "depraved heart" murder, behavior so reckless and regardless of human life that intent can be inferred from the very act. (eg Posting targets on your suburban fence and shooting into them without regard to neighbors.) Mr. Zimmerman's jury was charged with standard Murder II, and thus has to find on the evidence presented that he intentionally killed Trayvon Martin with malice forethought, but no planning.
Voluntary manslaughter is more culpable than involuntary, it is usually "heat of passion" type killing. A (bar fight or some other) circumstance where you are trying to hurt someone else, possibly with provocation, and end up killing that person. It can also be "imperfect self defense" the first theory under which Mr. Zimmerman's jury was charged where he UNREASONABLY believed that he had to shoot Travon Martin to save himself.
(my bet for the verdict)
Involuntary manslaughter is the least culpable level of criminal homicide, most commonly charged to the jury on a "gross negligence" theory where reckless actions lead to death -this is the second manslaughter theory under which Zimmerman's jury was charged. Next most common IVM is the Misdomeanor-manslaughter rule, the concomitant to the felony-murder rule where accidental killing during the commission of a crime is charged as a catagorical crime. Give a clerk a heart attack during a robbery, a felony, and it's murder II, while shoplifting, a misdo & it's manslaughter. Fatal DUIs are usually charged under both theories.
I've always seen this as an clear by the elements imperfect self defense case (nor stand-your-ground) and this was why I thought the police were so wrong to let Mr. Zimmerman go on the night of the killing, but with only one living witness to the event, proving intent and malice rests on inferences, and juries don't often make those jumps with a competent defense and clear guilt on a lesser charge.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy own personal bottom line is that when you bring a gun into your home, you're bringing death into your home. When you strap on a gun, you strap on death. It could be yours or someone else's, but you've decided to live intimately with potential death. You can hardly be surprised when death does come to visit, with all of it's consequences.
ReplyDeleteHEY WHITEY'S CONSPIRACY!!!
ReplyDeleteOMG! they needed you down there in Florida. because the jury seems as confused as me also!
They asked the judge to better define 'Manslaughter' for them :)
After thinking about it O'Mara and Judge decided to piss off the jury a little LOL
They sent back a note asking them to better "define their question about Manslaughter"
That jury gonna be pissed!
Myself, I wouldn't have done that if I was O'Mara! :) but, oh well, I'm not!
They should just write out the definitions exactly like you did to me and sent it to them!
Why delay it???
I don't think he's walking!
OK DF I've got this one too: the jury instructions (the jury's "charge" in legalese) are the only guidance that jurors get on the law. they have to interpret them for themselves. Anything else would mean a mistrial. Often, confusion reigns. That's why I always base my closing argument on the jury-instruction so that the jurors know exactly what I wants them to think about them.
ReplyDeleteSmart WC! They are obviously confused but want to get this done! What I would be afraid of would be that out of frustration and ignorance of the law, they just pick anything!
ReplyDeleteI can understand your point of view on guns. They def are synonymous with death.
But there are many homes in rural America and here where a gun is an element of survival, yes still in this day and age. :)
People that have crops often have marauding animals that the only way they can get rid of is by shooting them.
Otherwise you lose that food supply or if you were planning on selling the crops for the kids school clothes etc...
Many people still hunt for their meat supply and prefer it that way.
Also the ownership of a gun for protection does not necessarily mean that you will ever use it. You may never have to.
If you live in a country where most everyone s armed and you're not, you lose.
Responsible gun ownership does not mean that you strap it on and carry it around. Unless say you have a ton of money on you as with a businessman and you're going to the bank with it. that's also done a lot here.
Lawyers also carry here for obvious reasons.
I have never ever heard of a gun accident here. Never. I must say that the legal gun owners here are very responsible.
The shootings that we do have are intentional ones by the criminal element, and when they know you are armed they do stay away.
So I see guns as something to respect but in some cases very necesary and not to be feared.
As a tool, if you will for survival, not as a tool for bullying or killing vigilante style like you know who ;p
Then again, having said that, I must also qualify by adding that we here life in small communities, where one neighbor watches the goings on of the other and we kind of keep each other in check.
There is a saying here "Cada cual sabe de la pata que el otro cojea"
Naturally it loses in translation but roughly: "Each one knows the leg that the other one is limping on"
Or, 'we know what your weakness and strength are, and if we don't likeee you are outeee of the community my friend':) and of course this can be accomplished in many different ways.
Small town stuff, but it's good, it works.
Ooooweee, I sure rambled...
Geraldo has commented several times that Zimmerman will walk a free man. I agree. I don't see any other outcome.
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing was a set up in court. The prosecution did not make enough effort for Justice be done for TM.
Desert, you are a fool if you think Zimmerman will be charged with 'manslaughter'. This Florida and there are 5 white jurors and 1 Hispanic. And, they are women.
Desert, thanks for the reason for owning a gun. I don't have one and I live in the hood. Maybe I should get one?
ReplyDeletePerhaps I should have said "handgun." DF, but then again, back in 1980, a couple of young men who I'd gone to high-school with, at a time and place where rifles and shotguns in gunracks or tool boxes weren't odd or unknown, got into a fight at a secluded spot where we all swam at the local river. The fellow getting the worst of it made it to his pickup and got a deer rifle out of his toolbox intending, he swore, just to threaten the guy beating him up and end the fight. Except that the other guy wasn't buying it, couldn't believe that the guy with the rifle was even being such a punk about an ass-whipping and made as if to take it away, and ended up with the back half of his chest blown all over the drunken crowd cheering him on. Neither of those families were ever the same after that. Marriages died, addictions developed, sides were taken that ended quite a few friendships.
ReplyDeleteI was a Marine, an 8th (straight) Award Expert Rifleman; I grew up hunting bear, deer and birds behind dogs with my dad; while I haven't been hunting since my 30s, I plan on going to my buddy's deer-camp this Fall weather to hunt or just camp with old friends I haven't decided yet. I've even used a .22 pistol still in my butchering kit as I write on livestock. I understand that they're tools. But only when they're treated as tools, dangerous tools, not when they're treated as strap-on manhood, not as some "state of nature" "survival of the fittest" fantasy or political talisman. Those uses lead inexorably to human death that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Those uses embrace death as a constant companion.
VERDICT 15 min
ReplyDeleteTo paraphrase George Zimmerman, these assholes always get off.
ReplyDeleteI guess I will forever just be a silly idealist huh :(
ReplyDeleteNow they can take him home and buy him another gun and that cowboy hat and star badge,oh and some nice chaps might be in order. Who know maybe a horse, a "patrol" horse???
I do believe I told you all Zimmerman wouldn't be convicted. The prosecutor NEVER had a case because this vigilante wasn't arrested the night he shot the boy.
ReplyDeleteHe'll die with that child's blood still on his hands. Worst prosecution I've seen in years; the B team in action.
ReplyDeleteWell, this is it. Race War time. Us or them.
ReplyDeleteBlogger Whitey's Conspiracy said...
ReplyDeleteHe'll die with that child's blood still on his hands. Worst prosecution I've seen in years; the B team in action.
10:14 PM
----------------------
As I said during the trial: the prosecution was there to "throw" the case so Zimmerman could walk a free man. In addition, the Jurors were WHITE, WITH ONE HISPANIC. What did you expect, a "fair trial?" No prosecution would have settled for that, UNLESS, it had planned to lose!
Anyway, it's Florida. No AA will EVER get a fair trial. Hell, Blacks are lucky if they get to vote there.
He got away with it...
ReplyDeleteHe looked so expressionless,as though he doesn't even give a shit!
Oh he'll do it again, he will because he believes the people that are telling him he's a hero.
Sociopath!
"Living in a world where you fight dogs; you could lose everything (Mike Vick).. If you kill a black man you're not guilty"!---Steve Johnson
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to believe Anon 10:40pm.
ReplyDeleteYep you get more time for killing dogs then killing a young brother. I love the comment on 10:40pm. I'm going to use that on some wingnut sites right now.
ReplyDeleteI hope those women juries don't allow their sons to ever walk home from a convenience store or from soccer practice at night. Karma.
ReplyDeleteIt's a very depressing being a bm in America. Very depressing.
ReplyDeletedepressed Negro
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"I think six people is too few!"
Well, five white women and one hispanic woman is plenty to set Zimmerman free. No need for more.
I am amazed that people think this jury is an impartial fair jury. This is a win win for Zimmerman. He will not be charged for anything.
You folks should watch this video. It laid out the hard truth even before the verdict.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/geraldo-rivera-george-zimmerman-jury-trayvon-martin_n_3585911.html
Yes, we all know that blacks would never band together and riot if something did not go their way, as the author of this diatribe stated, "All the people implying that blacks would riot like a bunch of savages." History has repeatedly proven that this would not, or could not happen. Right? Trayvon certainly was not a Saint or even as Saintly as the pictures of him at age 12 or so, that were used in an effort to manipulate the jurors, would imply. That being said, he still did not deserve what happened to him, but our system of justice has spoken. A lynch mob mentality is not the answer. Just as in the O.J. Simpson case, apparently the Zimmerman Attorney's argued a more cogent position for their Client's acquittal than did the Prosecution for his imprisonment. Hate to bring up the Simpson case, but it, like the Blake case, set up precedent for horseshit juror of your peers verdicts. Blacks, Whites, Yellows and Browns.....get used to it, it's all we have and in reality while not a perfect system of Justice, would you rather it be more like that of China?
ReplyDeleteField, I am an avid reader of your blog and recommend it to my family and friends. Your commnets are always insightful. I was reading your latest post and agree with everything you said about Shelby Steele. But it seems like you brought what the defense was peddling about Trayvon Martin hook, line and sinker when you said and continued with, "Trayvon threw the first punch and then continued pummeling the much smaller Zimmerman. Yes, Trayvon was a kid, but he was also something of a menace First, there were no witnesses to who threw the first punch. Please tell me why is Trayvon a menance? Second, Zimmerman was a GROWN MAN with a hatred of these black as-holes who always get away with it. Plus, he had a loaded 9mm. You need to reassess your position on this for real. Zimmerman had also been arrested before but that was not allowed to be introduced into evidence. Let's not forget Trayvon did have a right to Stand his ground. Please let's stop demonizing and criminalizing our young black teenagers. While we're at it, let's stop defending these white folks when they are wrong. They damn sure don't do it for us. They prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
ReplyDeleteRajaee
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