Remember when trumpnuts were celebrating Mr. trump's vindication by the Mueller Report? Well, as it turns out, they were doing those victory laps and spiking the ball in the end zone a little too soon.
"Some members of special counsel Robert Mueller’s team told associates that Attorney General William Barr’s four-page summary of their investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election did not fully represent their findings, according to a New York Times report published Wednesday.
Government officials and other sources familiar with the special counsel team's work revealed to The Times that Mueller’s nearly 400-page report would be more damaging for President Donald Trump than what Barr had set out late last month.
"The officials and others interviewed declined to flesh out why some of the special counsel’s investigators viewed their findings as potentially more damaging for the president than Mr. Barr explained," The Times reported. The investigators also told The Times they had concerns that Barr’s narrative of the findings would have hardened public perception by the time the full report became public.
The special counsel's investigators said they thought Barr should have included more details of their findings in his letter, which was delivered on March 24, barely 48 hours after Mueller submitted his completed report." [Source]
Of course no one is surprised that the man Mr. trump picked to cover up the Mueller Report and paint it in a favorable light to trump would do just that. What is surprising (and maybe not) is how the American press was quick to buy into Barr's four page summary of the Report which concluded that trump and his crime family did not conspire with the Russians. They were all too willing to say that the witch hunt didn't snare any witches. The headlines all over the country and in major newspapers was that trump had been exonerated and the dark cloud over his presidency had been lifted. We all know that this was far from true. We had seen too much evidence to the contrary.
Now, as is to be expected, William Barr's cover up is in full effect. He will not release all the information in the report because it is now becoming increasingly clear that it is far more damaging to Mr. trump than first believed.
"Last evening, the Wall Street Journal editorialized that reporters and House Democrats were smearing Attorney General William Barr by implying that his summary of the Mueller report was anything other than completely faithful and representative. The Journal sneered at “the impression, abetted by a press corps that was fully invested in the collusion story, that Mr. Barr is somehow lying about Mr. Mueller’s real conclusions.” This was “preposterous,” the editorial explained, because Barr “surely understood on releasing the summary of conclusions last week that he would be open to contradiction by Mr. Mueller if he took such liberties.”
The editorial was published at 7:24 p.m. Minutes before, and probably too late to make any alterations, the New York Times broke the news that Barr was in fact contradicted. How could anybody think Barr would be stupid enough to lie when Mueller could expose him, asks the Journal, at almost literally the precise moment when Mueller’s team exposes Barr for lying.
The Times reports that Mueller’s famously leak-free team was moved to break its silence by Barr’s slanted summary of its work. The news from the Times, as well as the follow-up report from the Washington Post, conveys very little information about the substance of the report. There’s no reason to doubt Barr’s conclusion that Mueller was unable to establish a criminal conspiracy between Donald Trump and the Russian government. Whether the unflattering information in the report contains evidence of noncriminal misconduct with Russia — remember, collusion is not a crime — or centers entirely around obstruction of justice remains to be seen.
It does seem clear, though, that Barr has not been dealing from the top of the deck. More evidence of his bad faith can be found in his putative reason for abridging Mueller’s conclusions. The special counsel’s report provided summaries of its work. The Times, apparently relying on Justice
Department sources, reports that Mueller’s summaries could not be published, because they “contain sensitive information, like classified material, secret grand-jury testimony and information related to current federal investigations that must remain confidential, according to two government officials.”[Source]
So it looks like we are back to square one. Put the ball down trumpnuts. This game is going into overtime.
Horse shit, Mr. Barr. To publicly release grand jury information you have to ask the district court judge. Then when they OK it, which you know full well they would in this case, you have to abide by whatever restrictions they feel might be necessary.
ReplyDeleteThis makes Fergus look bad in a brand new and unexpected way:
Before, one was left to wonder at the utter incompetence and blatant corruption of pretty much everyone he hired, and whether he understood the concept of being qualified to do any particular job.
Barr, however, with his decades of hands-on experience at keeping Republican presidents (Poppy Bush) from having to face legal consequences for their (Iran-Contra, Iraqgate) felonious behavior, is the very picture of what a "get Fergus out of the legal mess he's made for himself" AG would be.
So all of those other corrupt and incompetent hires?
He did them deliberately, and from here on out, owns all of the damage they've done.
-Doug in Oakland
So Rund Pall has blocked a resolution in the senate calling for the Mueller report to be released because he couldn't get a bunch of conspiracy theories added to it in amendments.
ReplyDeleteWhich, like everything else baby Paul does, wouldn't really matter because the other senator from Kentucky would never let it pass.
-Doug in Oakland
https://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/16943-famed-leftist-gore-vidal-likely-a-pedophile-say-relatives
ReplyDelete"It does seem clear, though, that Barr has not been dealing from the top of the deck. More evidence of his bad faith can be found in his putative reason for abridging Mueller’s conclusions. The special counsel’s report provided summaries of its work."
ReplyDeleteThis should be headline news in every paper. Mueller provided summary of his report. Trump had his underling write a completely new one because he didn't like what Mueller's said.
Grab the popcorn gang, things are just getting started. Mueller did the right thing because now congress gets to see the report and decide whether or not to impeach. Barr needs to let congress do their jobs. Barr is this president's Robert Bork.
ReplyDeleteCongress has officially passed a resolution to end US support for the war in Yemen, a strong rebuke of President Donald Trump's foreign policy toward Saudi Arabia. ... The Republican-led Senate passed the resolution in March, and it now heads to Trump's desk. The White House says the president plans to veto it.
ReplyDelete-Doug in Oakland
White House Says Mueller Report Must Be Kept Private Because It’s So Exonerating It Would Drive Public Mad
ReplyDeleteNew Nation News
ReplyDeletewolf.....wolf......wolf...….
ReplyDeleteAwww the lil doggie has a hiccup
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteParadoctor said...
"Awww the lil doggie has a hiccup"
12:21 PM
********************
Yes and it's a bad one. He/she keeps vomiting all over our blog site!
From Steve Benen:
ReplyDelete"Donald Trump has now been in office for 26 full months -- February 2017 through March 2019 -- and in that time, the economy has created 5.12 million jobs. In the 26 full months preceding Trump's presidency -- December 2014 to January 2017 -- the economy created 5.57 million jobs.
The White House has not yet offered an explanation for why job growth has slowed since Trump took office."
-Doug in Oakland
So this highly intelligent, self-described "Trump loving patriot" in New York called Ilhan Omar's office, threatened to murder her, and then gave her staffer his name and phone number.
ReplyDeleteFrom USA Today:
"Patrick W. Carlineo, 55, of Addison, was arrested Friday morning and charged by criminal complaint with threatening to assault and murder a United States official."
and
"He also told agents he didn't remember exactly what he said to Omar's staffer but admitted it might have been close to what her office reported to authorities."
-Doug in Oakland
“So this highly intelligent, self-described ‘Trump loving patriot’ in New York called Ilhan Omar's office, threatened to murder her, and then gave her staffer his name and phone number.”
ReplyDeleteLike I said, rank-and-file Trumpkins are a real bunch of rocket surgeons.
And it surely doesn’t help that many wingnut media outlets shamelessly discuss Muslims as if they are obviously ALL terrorists. Hell, if Mr. Carlineo consumed enough of this hate propaganda, he might be convinced that killing Muslims is actually legal and viewed as heroic, and that the FBI must be arriving at his house to give him some kind of award.
The swamp in the kremlin annex is full of witches with Blackwater Hattie Drumpfuck being the worst.
ReplyDeleteIn the Jim Stafford song "Swamp Witch", she was an unknown quantity that had the townmen scared until disaster struck. She saved the town but told the people not to come looking for her ever again.
Swamp Witch Hattie Drumpfuck just lines his own pockets and throws everyone under the bus.
mike from iowa is all of you.
ReplyDelete"Some members of special counsel Robert Mueller’s team told associates that Attorney General William Barr’s four-page summary of their investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election did not fully represent their findings, according to a New York Times report published Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteMost members of special counsel Robert Mueller’s team were rabid Trump-hating partisans. The fact that even this assemblage of Democrat Hillary supporters couldn't find any evidence of collusion is completely damning to the whole sordid plot.
To keep on clinging in desperation to the false Russian collusion hoax is sign of mental instability and/or limited cognitive faculties. Anyone who ever pushed this idea should recuse themselves from any political participation for the rest of their sad lives.
The fact that even this assemblage of Democrat Hillary supporters couldn't find any evidence of collusion is completely damning to the whole sordid plot.
ReplyDeleteThe fact anyfuckingmoose and other stoopid fucking wingnuts completely ignore collusion that is a s plain as the nose on their facdes is comical.
You ignorant sluts cannot say there was no collusion because you have not seen the report. You8 just repeat given talking points. Furthermore, when collusion is proven, you will skip over it and say Drumpf and Putin were not homo lovers or some other such irrelevant obfuscation so you don't have to dwell on just how fucking mow rawnic you are.
The majority, if not ebvery member of Mueller's team are all seasoned, impartial professionals doing the jiob they were assigned to do. Dems always appoint repubs to do their major investigations so they aren't accused of partisanship-. Wingnuts always appoint the worst, moswt5 partisan wingnuts they can find and don't give a fuck if you know they are partisan.
mike from iowa is all of you.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.rawstory.com/2019/04/family-wrestles-with-teens-death-as-wealthy-family-tries-to-escape-justice/
ReplyDeleteWhite privilege at its finest.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/437681-suspect-wearing-maga-hat-who-allegedly-attacked-man-with-sword
ReplyDeleteMagat hat gone wild again. This time with deadly intent. Fucking magat hats are dangerous to society and should be banned.
IYF anyfuckingmoosepussy!
mike from iowa is all of you.
ReplyDeleteLeft-wing Politi-fact calls Hillary a Goddamned liar:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2019/mar/06/hillary-clinton/clinton-hot-seat-claim-thousands-were-turned-away-/
Blackwater Hattie was like a goddamn superhero of '70s radio, and that same Jim Stafford album has a song called "Last Chant" that was ahead of it's time in environmental advocacy:
ReplyDeleteYou just keep draggin' my swamp water down
Move to Florida! We'll build you a town!
Poor swamp creatures runnin' everywhere around
Never knowin' if they're gonna drop or drown.
Sometimes I wonder what you'd do
If the swamp moved in on you?
Scratched on your screen, slipped down your waterspout
Tapped you on the shoulder and said "YOU move out!"
-Doug in Oakland
1/2 Back a couple days ago, Granny Mudshark wrote "Stop posting bull shit. No one believes you."
ReplyDeleteGranny Mudshark is either delusional or senile; everyone with a clue believes it.
She took issue with a list of claims which started "Nog schools get more money than 90% of White schools". This is unequivocally true if you mean "other people's money". Per NJ.com, a list of the highest-spending school districts in New Jersey, I am selecting the ones with enrolment of 2000 or more (to eliminate the small wealthy districts which pay their own way). I will highlight the major funding sources for each of them and finish with the 2 most expensive.
48: Passaic County Vocational | $25,892
Revenue Sources: State: 31.9% | Local Taxes: 13% | Federal: 4.1% | Tuition: 43.9% | Use of Fund Balance: 4.8% | Other: 2.3%
Voc-Ed programs are expensive. There's a fair amount of state aid but tuition is the biggest source of funding. People obviously want to go here.
47: Princeton | $25,902
Revenue Sources: State: 16.1% | Local Taxes: 75.3% | Federal: 1.5% | Tuition: 5.5% | Use of Fund Balance: 0.1% | Other: 1.5%
University town, lotsa money.
46: Neptune Township | $25,920
Revenue Sources: State: 60.7% | Local Taxes: 32.1% | Federal: 2.4% | Tuition: 4.8%
This is a district of stupid parasites. "The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Math is 10% (which is lower than the New Jersey state average of 40%) for the 2015-16 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Reading/Language Arts is 26%....
Minority enrollment is 74% of the student body (majority Black"
Of course.
43: Pascack Valley Regional | $26,143
Revenue Sources: State: 13.9% | Local Taxes: 84% | Federal: 0.9% | Tuition: 1.1% | Other: 0.1%
Far from stellar but these people are at least paying their own way.
40: Morris Hills Regional | $26,415
Revenue Sources: State: 22% | Local Taxes: 76.8% | Federal: 1% | Tuition: 0.3%
Ditto.
38: Lakewood | $26,477
Revenue Sources: State: 32.8% | Local Taxes: 51.9% | Federal: 12.7% | Other: 2.6%
Another parasite district. Who are the parasites? "Minority enrollment is 95% of the student body (majority Hispanic)". Buncha dummies too; "The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Math is 6% (which is lower than the New Jersey state average of 40%) for the 2015-16 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Reading/Language Arts is 28%...." The New Jersey taxpayers aren't getting their money's worth.
37: Teaneck | $26,486
Revenue Sources: State: 15.6% | Local Taxes: 82.6% | Federal: 1.7% | Tuition: 0.1%
They pay their own way, but get shit results: "The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Math is 21% (which is lower than the New Jersey state average of 40%) for the 2015-16 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Reading/Language Arts is 41%... Minority enrollment is 87% of the student body (majority Black)"
33: Hudson County Vocational | $26,915
Revenue Sources: State: 43.4% | Local Taxes: 48.5% | Federal: 6.8% | Tuition: 1.3%
VocEd school, not really comparable to the rest.
2/4
ReplyDelete26: East Orange | $27,699
Revenue Sources: State: 89% | Local Taxes: 7.7% | Federal: 3.1% | Other: 0.2%
More parasites. What are these parasites like? "The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Math is ≤1% (which is lower than the New Jersey state average of 40%) for the 2015-16 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Reading/Language Arts is 12%...." Buncha dummies, who are 93% black and 7% hispanic.
23: Hoboken | $28,217
Revenue Sources: State: 41.5% | Local Taxes: 54.5% | Federal: 3.5% | Tuition: 0.1% | Other: 0.4%
Not quite majority-parasite, but getting there. Who are they? Plurality hispanic (47%) and just 33% white. Less than 25% of students scored proficient in math in 2015 and 2016, and only 36% in reading. A lot of money for shit results.
16: Camden | $29,455
Revenue Sources: State: 91.7% | Local Taxes: 3.1% | Federal: 4.7% | Tuition: 0.1% | Other: 0.4%
"The [Camden] district is classified by the New Jersey Department of Education as being in District Factor Group "A", the lowest of eight groupings."
"Nearly half of Camden’s K-8 and high school students are performing far below the State’s bar for proficiency."
"The population of Camden, NJ is 48.1% Hispanic, 42.4% Black, and 5.28% White."
5: Bergen County Vocational | $35,568
Revenue Sources: State: 17.5% | Local Taxes: 46.5% | Federal: 2.2% | Tuition: 33.7% | Other: 0.1%
Another vocational oddball with a lot of tuition-paying students.
3/4
ReplyDelete4: Asbury Park | $35,636
Revenue Sources: State: 86.3% | Local Taxes: 8.6% | Federal: 4.4%
Of the first four search results for Asbury Park schools, THREE of them had less than 10% of students proficient in reading and all got less than 25% proficient in math; only Hope Academy Charter School broke 25% proficiency in both categories. Unsurprisingly, "Minority enrollment is 99% of the student body (majority Black)". Again, the New Jersey taxpayer gets shit for their money.
The top-spending two districts are paired, one serving K-4 and the other 5-8.
2: Stone Harbor | $38,451
Revenue Sources: State: 10.5% | Local Taxes: 73.8% | Federal: 0.9% | Tuition: 14.8%
What does Stone Harbor get for its money? The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Math is 60-79% (which is higher than the New Jersey state average of 40%) for the 2015-16 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in Reading/Language Arts is 60-79%....
Minority enrollment is 7% of the student body." They kept all the melanin-poisoned dummies out.
1: Avalon | $60,129
Revenue Sources: State: 12% | Local Taxes: 65.6% | Federal: 0.7% | Tuition: 9.7% | Other: 12%
Avalon also does well. 60-69% proficient in math and 70-79% proficient in reading. Of course, the school is only 6% hispanic and a mere 2% (1 out of 50 students) black. The black is probably an immigrant.
4/4 So, Granny Mudshark is dead wrong about schools. On to "the housing is substandard because Nogs destroy everything they touch". One look at St. Louis, Newark, Detroit, Selma, and anywhere else run by blacks shows heaps of falling-down housing. Blacks steal copper wiring and plumbing everywhere, but in St. Louis they steal the very bricks of the houses.
ReplyDeleteGranny Mudshark probably takes the NYT as gospel... except when it publishes something that portrays her precious African pets realistically. Then she'll say "no one believes you."
Cognitive dissonance, senility or lying? Check all that apply.
Anon: "Sun to rise in east tomorrow at 6:31 am"
ReplyDeleteGranny: "Do you have a link for that or are you just spewing bullshit?"
Anon: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/new-york
Granny: "No one believes your right-wing sources."
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”
ReplyDelete― Mark Twain
Wingnut logic- HRC lies once and it is worse than the pathological lying POS in the kremlin annex. Now stoopid fucking wingnuts won't have to defend all Drumpfuck's lies. They can just claim they all do it.
ReplyDeleteDrumpfuck says it again- .@realDonaldTrump on people asking for asylum "These aren't people. These are animals."
ReplyDelete13.8K
5:01 PM - Apr 5, 2019
No wonder brown skin people love him so much. What a piece of shit Russia installed in the kremlin annex.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous No Balls said:
"1/2 Back a couple days ago, Granny Mudshark wrote "Stop posting bull shit. No one believes you."
Granny Mudshark is either delusional or senile; everyone with a clue believes it."
*************************
Sorry, Babe, but you can't disprove a statistical fact with anecdotal data. And stop referring to me as delusional. We now know that all wing nuts are delusional.
To Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePoor people steal copper wiring and plumbing everywhere.
There, I fixed it for you.
MS-13 are animals.
ReplyDeleteAs the proud descendant of colonists and settlers I'm willing to give all new immigrants the authentic experience, a tomahawk to the head.
ReplyDelete“As the proud descendant of colonists and settlers I'm willing to give all new immigrants the authentic experience, a tomahawk to the head.”
ReplyDeleteIt is our great misfortune that your ancestors did not receive a tomahawk to the head.
ReplyDeleteFrom the front page of the Hill today: Conspiracy theorists keep their Ginsburg death claims alive
We now know that all wing nuts are delusional. thehill.com
"It is our great misfortune that your ancestors did not receive a tomahawk to the head."
ReplyDeleteIf they had you'd be squatting in the mud somewhere today, swatting away flies as you thought about which one of your neighbors you were going to eat next.
Gambler2 ASKA White Woman said...
ReplyDelete"Conspiracy theorists..."
This from the woman who believed in the Russian collusion conspiracy theory.
Anonymous Vlad the Defecator said...I still can't name one part of the Steele Dossier that was debunked because I am a stoopid fucking wingnut.
ReplyDeleteOf course russia and Drumpfuck and his criminal enterprise colluded. There is all kinds of evidence from all the meetings between the two group0s before and during the election.
Drumpfuck's idea of swamp draining is to grow the swamp so it appears shallower by adding more swamp creatures to it every month.
ReplyDeleteLookee here, another wingnut pol pedo- https://www.rawstory.com/2019/04/former-texas-gop-official-arrested-aggravated-sexual-assault-child-report/
ReplyDeleteI swear all wingnuts are born pedophiles.
Cohen swears wingnuts took money illegally from China and he can prove it. Pretty sure the NRA laundered money for Russia and former wingnut congressman who owned a Russian bank lost his bank for money laundering. They are all crooks but HRC had emails.
ReplyDeletemike from iowa said...
ReplyDeleteLookee here, another wingnut pol pedo
He claims it was "consensual":
https://youtu.be/xzKpYD534ig
Unbelievable.
you can't disprove a statistical fact with anecdotal data.
ReplyDeleteYou denied a statistical fact, that "nog schools" get more money than others. That fact was just proven with statistical data. You are a liar.
And stop referring to me as delusional.
Only delusional people deny factual, cited claims which refute their falsehoods. You are so attached to your falsehoods, you would probably break down emotionally and die if you had to give them up.
We now know that all wing nuts are delusional.
Projection is a mental disease.
Poor people steal copper wiring and plumbing everywhere.
Liar. The street lights in the cities of West Virginia are not shut down by copper thieves. Neither are WV schools losing power and air conditioning because of the same. But that is exactly what happens in black areas like Selma.
I can dig up a dozen similar stories without hardly trying... from black parts of the USA. You ain't Cleopatra, but you sure as hell are vying for the title of Queen of Denial.
From Taegan Goddard:
ReplyDelete“It may take federal officials two years to identify what could be thousands of immigrant children who were separated from their families at the southern United States border,” the New York Times reports.
“A federal judge had asked for a plan to identify these children and their families after a report from government inspectors in January revealed that the Trump administration most likely separated thousands more children from their parents than was previously believed.”
-Doug in Oakland
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"you can't disprove a statistical fact with anecdotal data.
You denied a statistical fact, that "nog schools" get more money than others. That fact was just proven with statistical data. You are a liar....."
***********************
Give it up kid. You think you are right and you are not. You are never going to convince me of anything. SEE BELOW
In Most States, Poorest School Districts Get Less Funding | Best States ...
https://www.usnews.com/.../in-most-states-poorest-school-districts-get-less-funding
Feb 27, 2018 - School districts with the highest rates of poverty receive less funding per student ... and school counselors – resources that are directly linked to the amount of ... Three-Quarters of U.S. Public School Spending Cuts Restored ].
Most NJ students in poor areas attend underfunded schools, report ...
https://www.chalkbeat.org/.../most-nj-students-in-poor-areas-attend-underfunded-scho...
Mar 4, 2019 - Most NJ students in poor areas attend underfunded schools, report shows, even as Murphy promises to boost education spending. By Patrick Wall - March 4, ... ( The remaining portion of the budget comes from federal money.) ...
More Than 40% of Low-Income Schools Don't Get a Fair Share of ...
https://www.ed.gov/.../more-40-low-income-schools-dont-get-fair-share-state-and-loc...
Nov 30, 2011 - The analysis of new data on 2008-09 school-level expenditures shows that ... I money to serve disadvantaged students spent less state and local money ... impact on educational opportunities for our nation's poorest children.
In 6 states, school districts with the neediest students get less money ...
https://hechingerreport.org/in-6-states-school-districts-with-the-neediest-students-get-l...
Jul 9, 2018 - Back then, school spending per student was only 1.7 percent lower among the poorest districts than the wealthiest school districts, or $193 per ...
I have more references if you want them. Let me know. But you can find it yourself by Googling "School funding in Poor Neighborhoods.
I'm not answering any more of you BULL. It's a waste of time
Segregation, school funding inequalities still punishing Black, Latino ...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nbcnews.com/.../segregation-school-funding-inequalities-still-punishing-b...
Jan 12, 2018 - Baker said that states should do a better job in raising education funding and in equalizing spending among school districts. He also called for a greater federal role in making sure that less affluent states that need additional education funding get it.
Do Districts Fund Schools Fairly? - Education Next : Education Next
https://www.educationnext.org/do-districts-fund-schools-fairly/
What we don't yet know about school funding inequalities is whether and how these ... These districts serve about half of all Texas public school students.
In Most States, Poorest School Districts Get Less Funding | Best States ...
https://www.usnews.com/.../in-most-states-poorest-school-districts-get-less-funding
Feb 27, 2018 - School districts with the highest rates of poverty receive less funding per ... on funding gaps that plague the country's public education system.
The neighbor is selling tacos for a buck and a half again and man are they ever good.
ReplyDelete-Doug in Oakland
The neighbor is selling tacos for a buck and a half again and man are they ever good.
ReplyDeleteWatch for a new batch of "Lost Cat" flyers this coming week.
https://www.the-immoral-minority.com/pennsylvania-man-with-history-of-domestic-abuse-buys-ar-15-and-promptly-murders-the-mother-of-his-child/
ReplyDeleteYup, all is right in stoopid fucking wingnut land.
"Watch for a new batch of "Lost Cat" flyers this coming week."
ReplyDeleteNope, having grown up raising beef and pork, I actually do know them when I see them.
-Doug in Oakland