Every city has its equivalent to our South Street here in Philly. For example: In New Orleans it's the French Quarter. In New York it's East Village. In San Diego it's the Gas Lamp District. And, in Miami, it's South Beach.
So anyway, a couple of nights ago a bunch of knuckle heads decided to have an all out street brawl on South Street. Lately this has been par for the course in our fair city. Young people converging on a particular area and going buck wild before the po po can break it up.
I am just thinking out loud about these kids. Like if they can take the time and energy to rip and run up and down city streets, why can't they channel that energy into doing something positive? Like, for instance, marching up and down the street in an organized manner for a just cause. And just where the hell are the parents of these children? That was a rhetorical question, I already know the answer.
"Why are there violent "flash mobs" in Philadelphia?
In different settings, different teenagers yesterday offered a variety of views on the furor over flash mobs, including the very term.
They scolded their peers. The boys said they were looking for girls. Some did it to establish a reputation, they said, and some didn't like the label being applied to them. They said the swarming was pointless. They said it probably would continue.
Authorities can't "put some tape on it and it's finished. . . . It's not really that simple," said Martisha Hardy, 17, of Germantown."
Actually, Martisha, it is pretty simple: your mama and daddy needs to stay on your ass!
"At Overbrook and during the radio program, students also were asked what could be done to prevent the violence. Several mentioned more after-school activities and recreation programs, but one boy at Overbrook pointed out that those services were available now.
"I think if teenagers knew more about how it affects their future and knew about the consequences . . . that would prevent it," said Shaun Loadholt, a senior at Overbrook.
On the radio, Marques Carson, 17, said many groups of young people from different neighborhoods, when they find themselves in the same place, were bound to clash.
"Half of these neighborhoods are going to battle," said Carson, of West Philadelphia.
In these fights, or in causing other types of chaos, the youths are looking to "catch a rep," said John Laderer, 16, of Southwest Philadelphia.
"They doing this to get buzz, to ring bells," he explained.
"Image is becoming a big matter on the street," Carson added." [Article]
Yes, image is everything. I love the one of the sixteen year old in the morgue with half of his brains blown out.
The brawls in San Diego usually happen in City Heights. At least the ones involving the young ones. It's the ones of legal age who brawl in the Gaslamp after midnight. In either case, the participants either don't know or don't care what the consequences are and it's sad.
ReplyDeleteIf these are flash mobs then the info goes out via Twitter or text right? So why can't the police get the info like the kids as to where it's going to happen?
ReplyDeletethe best afterschool program of all is called PARENTS.
ReplyDeleteNothing else we try will be able to make up for the lack of Mom and Dad.... sorry, Mom and Dad actually doing their job.
Sure good parents can have kids that act a fool or mess up, but those same parents are the ones who measure out the consequences and prevent the second time.
Of course we all already know this but still want to keep chasing our careers, or tail, or a Benz, in stead of chasing our kids.
It's the sign of the times. No one cares about kids. Makes you wonder why they have them in the first place? Parents are too busy and they also were kids when no one cared about them. And the beat goes on, generation after generation. Each generation of kids become angrier and more violent from lack of parenting.
ReplyDeleteBut I wonder, does anybody really know how to parent children?
~
ReplyDeleteWare dey daddy at?
`
I've been switched to the 3 pm - Midnight shift where I work. Everyday when I 'm on my way home after midnight, and I see children - yes- children - on the streets, I always ask - where the hell are their parents?
ReplyDeleteYes, where are the parents? And when will we start teaching folks to stop being proud of things they don't own? For example, neighborhoods, cities, etc. If you RENT, or are a teenager, why would you fight and die over something that doesn't belong to you?
ReplyDelete" Be in the house when the street lights come on" That did not mean comming in the gate,that did not mean on the porch,That meant be in the house!!!
ReplyDeleteMy parents were my parents not my friend..
Nah, they were just happy to see LeBron !
ReplyDeleteField, I don't appreciate you putting my kid's photo in your post. He looks stressed.
ReplyDeleteLucky Strike, now more often referred to as "Luckies," introduced a message to its cigarette packs in 1917.
ReplyDeleteIt was: L.S.M.F.T. (Luck Strike Means Fine Tobacco).
Now what does all this, a brand of cigarettes, "Luckies," have to do with the topic at hand. Well, not much.
Just this: A book I read years ago said that Lucky Strike's popular message could be used as a mnemonic device to remember something more important than a cigarette message; the initials of the message representing something infinitely more valuable--a key to understanding human behavior, and a reminder of a methodology that would allow one to respond in a way that could defuse a human interaction gone awry.
It is this: Low Self-esteem Means Friction and Trouble. L.S.M.F.T.
This little bit of knowledge has served me well over the years, and have extricated me from some rather sticky situations that could have spiraled out of control, but for it.
For all the laboriously slow methods available to us to win fame and success (college, starting a business), we seem to be living now in an era of instant gratification. And, too, quite aptly, we have been called the "throw away society," and that, too, may also be true. We, as a society, it seems, don't value anything as much as we used to.
Now we want things quickly without resorting to the tried and true methods of the past--hard work, elbow grease, true grit, or moxie.
For better or for worse, we're living during a time, thanks to the Internet, and a twenty-four hour news cycle, and cameras and cellphones everywhere, as ubiquitous as portable transistor radios used to be, where the average Joe or Jane can now become a celebrity over night.
Consider the 'Barefoot bandit' with a cult following on Facebook of around 60,000 fans, and a reputation rivaling that of Bonnie and Clyde, and the sudden success and fame of a homeless man caught on camera folding an American flag, military style, that had come unmoored from it's mooring during a storm.
Reality T.V. shows, often featuring the common man and common woman, who, in past years, would have been dubbed "Everyman," can now garner a following to equal that of movie stars.
Jon & Kate Plus 8 is one of those shows, that, at its peak, attracted as many as 9.8 million viewers.
With all this allurement of instant fame and monetary success just a video away, or a Reality T.V. show away, or a foolish stunt away, or an eluding of the cops away--who needs to work hard, study hard, and sacrifice time, and energy to bring one's self-esteem up, and launch it into the stratosphere of public acclaim, and monetary rewards.
Instead, all that is now needed is luck, a gimmick, and a good agent.
L.S.M.F.T., BD, I liked that.
ReplyDeleteAnd you are right; WTF is up with all the fascination over the "Barefoot bandit"?
"And the beat goes on, generation after generation. Each generation of kids become angrier and more violent from lack of parenting."
Yep!
The Barefoot Bandit?
ReplyDeleteCome On! What could be a better example of a pseudo-news story? Editors grabbed the chance to modify an uninteresting situaion into an amusing tale of silliness by simply giving one young white goofball a catchy name. Too bad for the editors the Barefoot Bandit is now cooling his heels in jail.
Maybe these goofy editors were inspired by Batman comic books. Or Dick Tracy comics. I guess they yearn for those romanticized stories of bad guys who have a conscience and surrender when the Chief of Police gets on his bullhorn and says, "You're surrounded. Come out with hands up."
Then there was David Berkowitz -- the murderous Son of Sam. When the cops nabbed him, he said, "What took you guys so long."
"What could be a better example of a pseudo-news story?"
ReplyDeleteThe NBPP supposedly intimidating voters in Philly.
field, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteEvery city has its equivalent to our South Street here in Philly...In New York it's East Village.
Note from New York City. There is very little crime in the section of the East Village to which kids are drawn. When there's trouble, it's way way way east, near the East River, in the project housing on Avenue D, where the white kids do not go.
As always, the flash points in NY City are in black and hispanic neighborhoods. Sure there's a little trouble here and there in the white neighborhoods of the city. But this year there have been ZERO murders committed by white teenagers and ZERO white teenaged victims.
As previous poster noted, in black and hispanic neighborhoods you will find children -- little kids -- outside on the sidewalk at 1 am. No mother in sight. No evidence of dad, except for the existence of the kid.
uptownsteve, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteThe NBPP supposedly intimidating voters in Philly.
As I wrote on the other field post, the NBPP story is as legitimate as the stories about Bush stealing the 2000 election.
no_slappz,
ReplyDeleteYou have no idea what South Street is about. Both white and Black young people have gone berserk there. In the 60's it would be considered a "Happening."
Your analogy is dead wrong. Why don't you try Googling?
no slappz
ReplyDelete"As always, the flash points in NY City are in black and hispanic neighborhoods. Sure there's a little trouble here and there in the white neighborhoods of the city. But this year there have been ZERO murders committed by white teenagers and ZERO white teenaged victims."
You know you are so full of $hit it's pathetic.
I grew up in NYC and know for a fact that white neighborhoods like Mt. Carmel and Bedford Park in the Bronx, Bensonhurst and Canarsie in Brooklyn and Ozone Park in Queens were full of drugs, crime and guns.
And don't be a black person trying to walk through one of those neighborhoods.
You'll be dead and no one will go to jail.
That "no snitching" thing.
Only the white folks say "Don't be a rat."
No slappz
ReplyDeleteAmple evidence Bush stole the 2000 election.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2005/12/more-evidence-that-bush-stole-2000.html
south beach in miami is gay area. i don't think there are any violent teen flash mobs there.
ReplyDeletemost problems come down to a failure of parenting in some way. that's why abortion and birth control are important. those who know they can't handle kids shouldn't have them. too bad there isn't a requirement for parenting classes or some kind license before you can bring kids into the world.
ignore the raving racist know as NS.
First comment.
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost love this site's honesty and candor.
Second. I live in Harlem, NY and the teens here are channeling the same aimlessness and look quite dead behind the eyes.
It hurts to see children and grown people's bodies look so lost.
As for parents...SMDH. Individually we are doing swell...but on a community level we are certainly shot to shit...
Black Diaspora is correct -- our culture is intellectually and spiritually vapid.
ReplyDeleteMadison Avenue sees children as consumers and corporate America sees children as potential drones for their offices. There are actually specialists who market strictly to toddlers -- TODDLERS!! We're so sick a culture that we attempt to brain wash our children to be good corporate slaves from the cradle.
Our politicians see children as chess pieces to pummel and badger through authoritarian legislation about gonadal politics. How many stupid laws are made 'to protect children' have nothing to do with children. DOMA isn't about protect kids -- was Bill Clinton throwing a bone to neo-cons so they could placate their right wing constituents, at the expense of telling law abiding, tax paying citizens what to do within their own personal lives and homes.
Many parents see their kids as unfortunate results of conflicted personal morals, one night stands and a no rubber (though being as much victims of our political economy as their children, I'm not surprised). Most parents love their kids, but feel simply too burdened and lost to fully nuture their offspring.
In essence, the Philly Flash Mob craze is what you get when you have a systemic culture that sees life and community as lines on a balance sheet.
uptownsteve, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteI grew up in NYC and know for a fact that white neighborhoods like Mt. Carmel and Bedford Park in the Bronx, Bensonhurst and Canarsie in Brooklyn and Ozone Park in Queens were full of drugs, crime and guns.
Yes, in Bensonhurst and Canarsie there were mob wannabe punks who committed some crimes -- extortion, some drug dealing, loan sharking -- and occasionally someone was murdered. Occasionally.
But guys like Giuliani, when he was a federal prosecutor, and a number of other members of law enforcement put a lot of mob punks in jail.
Notice how nicely John Gotti was treated. He developed cancer in his jaw and federal authorities realized Nature had imposed a death sentence on him. Death would come relatively quickly if he were denied medical treatment, which is how his case was handled.
Anyway, even in the worst years of murder in NY City -- 1989, 1990, 1991 -- when over 2,000 people were killed in each year, the whites who committed murder and were murdered added up to a small percentage of the total.
Blacks and hispanics -- as always -- have been way way ahead in this department.
Meanwhile, in the 2006 case on Long Island where the black homeowner shot and killed a white kid standing on the boundary of the street and the black homeowner's driveway, the black homeowner may spend as little as 20 MONTHS in jail.
And don't be a black person trying to walk through one of those neighborhoods.
Hey, maybe you remember how Joey Fama killed Yousef Hawkeins in Bensonhurt around 1989. He was tried, convicted and sent to jail along with his accomplices. Fama was the triggerman. He's still locked up. A few years ago a couple of other who were with him were released.
Meanwhile, in my former Brooklyn neighborhood of Windsor Terrace, there was a murder. The asian owner of a dry cleaning store was killed. Surprise, surprise, her black male employee killed her.
Who can forget the murder of Linda Stein, famous realtor and former manager of the Ramones? Surprise, surprise, Stein was beaten to death by her black female employee -- Natavia Lowery.
Stevie -- can you give me more than one example of a white kid murdering his boss in NY City?
uptown steve,
ReplyDeleteSorry, but there is NO credible evidence that Bush stole the 2000 election.
However, the idea is a popular one, despite its obvious silliness.
hathor, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteno_slappz, You have no idea what South Street is about. Both white and Black young people have gone berserk there. In the 60's it would be considered a "Happening."
You obviously have no idea what occurred at 1060s "happenings."
There may have been some disorderliness and consumption of alcohol and drugs, but violence was almost unheard of. Yeah, sure, someone got a bad deal on some pot, and some opportunists probably sold some crappy product. But that's about it.
If you need an example, just think Woodstock. A big fun mess.
" Be in the house when the street lights come on" That did not mean comming in the gate,that did not mean on the porch,That meant be in the house!!!
ReplyDeleteMy parents were my parents not my friend.<<
I heard the same words when I was a kid. :-)
The streetlight was the great equalizer. There was no dismay over mom or dad's watch being a few minutes faster than yours, or yours being a few minutes slow. Y
ou were in that house when the lights came on.
~
ReplyDeleteWere him daddy 'n'em be at?
`
working with many parents, they are lazy!! Parents, especially mothers, are being selfish when it comes to their children. they would rather send them out into the night while their lazy behinds are in some night club or drinking beer with their girlfriends or running with some married man!
ReplyDeletetrust when i tell you its harder for a parent to have movie night in the home or even family day with one another.
But once their child gets hurt in one of these flash mobs, the parents will continue to be complacent.
No_slappz
ReplyDeleteI don't need a description. That is the way South Street is. There have been instances when both white and black people have gotten out of hand. It still doesn't fit you analogy and it is by no means a " mean street."
I doubt if you really know what those young people did when they got high on hallucinogens. It wasn't all peace, love and fun. Mix youth and any mind altering drug and you have trouble.
"For better or for worse, we're living during a time, thanks to the Internet, and a twenty-four hour news cycle, and cameras and cellphones everywhere, as ubiquitous as portable transistor radios used to be, where the average Joe or Jane can now become a celebrity over night."
ReplyDeleteYes. With today's technology, 'anyone' has the chance to become a celebrity overnight. You no longer have to work hard to be discovered, just go on facebook. We live in a period of instant self-centered gratification.
In such an era, parents are too busy "getting" for themselves, instead of "giving" heartfelt nourishment to their children. America is fast-becoming a spiritual desert, where anything beyond the ego is considered bullshit. Of course, the ego specializes in wiping out the possibilities of any Reality beyond itself.
Faith is bullshit to the ego...if it cannot see it, hear it, smell it, taste it or feel it, then it doesn't exist.
We are in a period of great technological discovery and convenience. But spiritually we are in a very dark period for our minds and hearts. Unless we find some spiritual light "soon" we can look forward to joining the dinosaurs, imo.
And history will wonder, "what were those humans thinking when they were destroying themselves?" And history will record humans as being not much smarter than the dinosaura.
I think most humans eerily sense some kind of unlocalized doom descending upon us, but no one put their finger on it, let alone want to look at it. So, staying "busy" with technology-- that was designed to provide us "more" time to be with ourselves and love ones--helps us to avoid the truth of our predicament.
Our overly busy lives belong to the addictive process of consumerism, which leaves us wanting more, but totally empty inside. This is a terrible time to be a kid growing up in America.
UTS, "Maybe you can give me an example of a black kid shooting up his school and classmates ala Columbine, Jonesboro, Paducah, Pearl, MS, Redlake Minnesota...."
ReplyDeleteUts, you finally hit upon something that slam dunks the white racist who attacks the violence in black neighborhoods.
Yes, it is VERY true that Blacks are not prone to mass murders like Whites are. There is nothing Slapp_z can say to defend this truth. But fret not, he'll figure something else out.
I have often wondered what's up with those Whites who go around shooting up schools and other places. I guess killing one or two human being is not enough for the "greedy killer" in them.
no-slappz, the kids in this story about 30 years ago, who were "vandalizing and lurking about" were mostly white. I knew the victim, I went to school with his sister.
ReplyDeletesnippet:
"This burglary may have also contributed to Paul Masters and other teenagers in the neighborhood vandalizing and lurking about the property of Fentress, as gossip spread among their peers of the community and throughout the school regarding the stolen stamp collection. Fentress kept watch, secretly peering out of his home for anymore would-be burglars and harassing vandals. To the deadly misfortune of teenager Paul Masters, he roamed into the backyard of Fentress. Fentress was able to lure Paul Masters into his home by offering him a beer over friendly conversation. Suddenly, the conversation turned into a desperate attempt for Paul Masters to save his own life.
Albert Fentress attacked the young man eventually subduing him after a brief struggle. He then bound him tightly with ropes to a pole within his cellar. Fentress then proceeded to sexually assault the young man and out of frustration in his psychotic state of mind, Fentress then shot him twice in the head, then mutilating him by castration and decided to cook and eat the young man’s genitals."""
This guy was a teacher, too!
Anon
ReplyDelete"Uts, you finally hit upon something that slam dunks the white racist who attacks the violence in black neighborhoods."
The No-Slappz goober is on a mission to tie race (blacks) to dysfunction and it's so easily disproven.
The violence plagued inner city ghettoes are inhabited by poor, uneducated, unemployed males who are the perveyors of street violence around the world whether it be Bed-Stuy, North Philly, Moscow, Caracas or Sao Paulo.
I've studied this issue.
When white Southern and Eastern Europeans were the inner city poor, they were perpetrators of street violence and crime.
Today the ghettoe dwellers in America are black and brown.
I'm still waiting for that racist to try to tell anyone that an educated employed black man is any more likely to commit a violent crime than his white counterpart.
uptownsteve, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteMaybe you can give me an example of a black kid shooting up his school and classmates ala Columbine, Jonesboro, Paducah, Pearl, MS, Redlake Minnesota....
Ahhh. You're stuck on the packaging of the crime. Its parameters. The aspects of one setting for murder that makes it different from others.
Okay. I admit when it comes to the examples you gave, plus a few others you missed, the perpetrators are white.
But, when it comes to murder, your argument is just another desperate attempt to jam your head in the sand.
Over the couple of decades that white kids have committed these crimes, the total number of victims reached less than 100.
In 2010 in NY City 100 black or hispanic teenagers will kill 100 black or hispanic teenage victims. In one year. It will happen again next year too. It happened last year.
No matter how far you jam your head in the sand, you will not changed the FACT that among blacks murder occurs at SEVEN TIMES the rate of murder among whites. That's staggering.
It's statistically significant when outcomes of one group vary 10% or 20% from outcomes in another group. But when one group beats another by 700%, it's statistically stunning.
Nevertheless, obfuscators like you look for ways to parse the data that will make whites look worse than they are. So you have your one murder category where whites outperform blacks.
But the number of victims is so small that it means almost nothing in the full picture of murder.
Moreover, if we were to examine black serial murderers -- gang bangers who kill a number of rivals -- one-at-a-time -- over a few years, we find they have wildly outperformed their nearest white counterparts. The white kids do it once and are immediately caught, though the Columbine duo committed suicide, which was a favor to the taxpayers.
Anyway, yesterday here in NY City, the day included FOUR murders. No whites. All victims and perps were black or hispanic. A couple were teenagers. Business as usual.
uptown steve, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteI've studied this issue.
When white Southern and Eastern Europeans were the inner city poor, they were perpetrators of street violence and crime.
Stevie, seems as though you didn't study very hard.
The annual murder toll in NY City was around 400 before the 1960s. Maybe it was higher in the 1860s. Maybe there was a time when municipal recordkeeping was poor and a lot of murders were never tallied.
But NY City records since the early 1900s are pretty good. Meanwhile, up to the mid-1950s, NY City was about 85% white. And the city's population was about 8 million, a little less than it is today.
But immigration rules changed and the number of black and hispanic immigrants began to rise in a hurry.
Surprise surprise, crime began to increase too. Murders rose steadily, finally peaking in 1991 at roughly 2,250.
Last year, the total was about 470.
kathy,
ReplyDeleteRegarding the story about Fentress and Masters -- what's your point?
One sick white killer who committed a crime 31 years ago. Yeah? Okay. He was caught. He's guilty.
Why not work with an episode closer to NY City? In NY City? Son of Sam. Summer of 1977. Six murders. But he was caught and he's in jail.
None of these anecdotes changes the basic fact that blacks commit murders at 7 times the rate of whites. SEVEN TIMES. A huge, huge, huge difference.
But, it appears this murderous pathology among blacks is of little or no concern to you.
A city can have lots of voluntary after school activities of all kinds & there'll still be kids who won't use them. I'd like to see a required "in loco parentis" 8 or 9 hour school day in certain areas. Students would receive two meals & a snack, they would receive, counseling, tutoring, & complete all homework before leaving school. So no matter what the home environment, all school work would be completed, & the student fed. A student could opt out of the longer day only by maintaining a sufficient grade level or joining a school-to-workplace program, or reaching the legal age of 18.
ReplyDeleteno-slapz,
ReplyDeletethe point is that white kids do the same thing, run around and get in trouble, they still do.
"the point is that white kids do the same thing, run around and get in trouble, they still do."
ReplyDeleteDon't bother. Slappy Boy here is too busy doing what many others before him have done - slandering the Negro race as an unrepentantly violent one, especially if there aren't any restraints placed on it (i.e. Slavery, Segregation, etc). His defense of white teenaged males looks a lot like the same coonery Uncle Ruckus would engage in. It's rather unoriginal and it gets very tiring after you've seen it the last 10 times or so.
On the other hand, you have to wonder if Slappy's taking posting duties for CF, who I haven't seen as of late.
no_Slappz-"It's statistically significant when outcomes of one group vary 10% or 20% from outcomes in another group. But when one group beats another by 700%, it's statistically stunning."
ReplyDeleteGreat statistics. Now that you have the numbers, what are you going to do to the situation in those neighborhoods?
BTW, during the time when the Italian and Irish mafias were around-and the government had to form special forces to go after them- how did the murder statistics compare between Whites, Blacks and Latinos.
I am curious because Blacks were living in terror during those Jim Crow days. They had their property stolen by Whites, and also were lynched even for White entertainment at picnics.
Were Whites STILL less violent than Blacks? Hey, I'm just asking because I know you know because you deal in statistics.
"BTW, during the time when the Italian and Irish mafias were around-and the government had to form special forces to go after them- how did the murder statistics compare between Whites, Blacks and Latinos. "
ReplyDeleteThe Italian Mafia used targeted murders that seldom racked up large body counts. For example, in 1991, two factions of the Colombo mafia family went to war against each other. It was considered a bloody conflict-by mob war standards- even though only 12 people were killed. Contrast that to the fact that 10 people were killed in one weekend by street thugs in chicago just a few weeks ago. In Los Angeles there were over 5,000 gang related deaths between 1979 and 1994, that number is over 15,000 from the 70s to the present.
You left out the lynchings and Al Capone's St Valentine's massacre. and the many folks that ended up "sleeping with the fishes". You also left out the Irish mafia, and the 5000 lynchings of Blacks by Whites.
ReplyDeleteStatistics please.
kathy, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteno-slapz,
the point is that white kids do the same thing, run around and get in trouble, they still do.
Yes, white kids get in trouble and do stupid things -- but much less often than black kids.
The violent crime rate -- killings -- committed by white teenagers and young white adults is very very low.
Here in Brooklyn it's hot and hunting season has begun. But the black thugs are often remarkably bad shots -- unless they are two feet from their targets.
Another aspect of black and hispanic violence in NY City is the fact that those Innocent Bystanders who get shot are also black and hispanic.
This isn't about asking where the parents are, it's about asking where the Black MEN are.
ReplyDeleteCome on' UTS, come on and defend the fact that men with faces JUST LIKE YOURS have failed these kids miserably!!!!
When I was growing up, the older Black men stepped in and taught the younger men how to be men. Well I guess that shit ain't happening like it used to!
anonymous, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteYou left out the lynchings and Al Capone's St Valentine's massacre.
I believe the death toll in the St Valentine's Day "Massacre" was SIX. In Chicago, 1933, I think.
...and the many folks that ended up "sleeping with the fishes".
A few. Not many. The relentless prosecution of mobsters has identified most of the victims of mob rub-outs. One of John Gotti's chief killers -- Sammy "the bull" Gravano is reputed to have killed 19 other mobsters over his 30 plus years in the mob. The families of victims have come forward to implicate him.
You also left out the Irish mafia
Sorry, but they only knocked off a small number of their enemies. If you're a New York City guy, you might know about the Westies -- a bunch of Irish thugs who operated in the 1970s and 1980s and into the early 1990s, when most went to jail. Those who escaped jail did so by getting killed first.
Anyway, their numbers were small. But they were brutal -- until you compare them to today's Crips, Bloods and other local non-white thugs.
...and the 5000 lynchings of Blacks by Whites.
The most comprehensive studies of lynching -- studies that received the black seal of approval -- put the lynching total at 3,500. However, I'll spot you the other 1,500 and we can declare the death toll 5,000.
The lynching era is stated as the period from 1865 to 1965. One hundred years. Thus, on average, there were 50 lynchings a year. But, that gives an inaccurate picture. That vast majority of lynchings occurred between 1865 and 1910. Things slowed down a lot after that.
Meanwhile, in NY City for the years 1989, 1990 and 1991 the murder total was about 6,000.
At least 5,000 of the victims were black or hispanic. In three years.
As you know, when interracial killings occur, the victim is almost always white and the killer is almost always black or hispanic.
It seems you want to dwell in the past and try to magnify the long past wrongdoings of whites to avoid the subject of the social pathologies that are still ripping up black and hispanic communities.
I
ReplyDeleteno_slappz said...'None of these anecdotes changes the basic fact that blacks commit murders at 7 times the rate of whites. SEVEN TIMES. A huge, huge, huge difference.
But, it appears this murderous pathology among blacks is of little or no concern to you.
You're right to be concerned no_slappz. Right now, blacks are internalizing most of that violence, of which you speak. Just think what your day-to-day existence would be like, if we externalized it, actually turned it against those who "nurtured" that violence for so many years.
There's that familiar controversy. You're a bright boy, so I'll do no more than outline it here for you:
nature-nurture controversy
A traditional and long-standing disagreement over whether heredity or environment is more important in the development of living things, especially human beings.
If the black experience in this country could be encapsulated into the life of one person (a male) living out his lifetime in this country, from slavery to the present day, it might look pretty much like the following:
Birth: A premature birth, not carried to full term, denied many of the basic Rights and freedoms accorded to others, at the outset.
Childhood: Parent abuse, none of the expected warmth, cuddling, and tenderness that's associated with loving parents.
Manhood: Abuse continues, whimsical, targeted, labor-intensive, brutal, and marred by the impersonal nature of those who exploited his time, and his energy, the totality of his existence.
Middle age: Abuse continues, some more subtle than other, but still prevalent. Hatred, isolation, neglect, and indifference become his daily fare--not expected to improve markedly--well into his future, culminating in his untimely death.
This, taking a very broad swath of the black experience, becomes the environment in which most blacks are born, and live out their youth, and their adulthood, well into their middle-age, and beyond.
This is the basis of the 'pathology' that you point so cavalierly to, and which can account for much of the anti-social behavior, and social pathology that plagues that subset of our nation's population.
More below.
Anon 12:04 p.m. Thanks for the kind words. See, not all Anons are bad. :)
ReplyDeleteII
ReplyDeleteOf course, not all descend into the murky depths of the "pathology." Yet, none escapes unscathed, such is the pervasiveness of the sickness that envelops the black community to which blacks, directly or indirectly respond.
Yes, it's the environment, both within and without, that contributes to the pathology, but you, and many whites like you, repudiate your part in the whole matter, accusing blacks of failing to uplift lives weighed down by the burdens you have placed upon them.
And how do you spend your days? Furthering the crime through preachments, and offering illustrations of our deficiencies without acknowledging your own deficiencies.
For now, I've only examined the "nurture," the environmental aspect out of which the "pathology" grew and matured.
Now if blacks are "inherently" prone to violence, that it's our "nature," a hereditary predisposition, as some of your remarks seem to indicate, then I must confess, we're failing miserably.
Those statistics you cited are far too low. And we're going to have to do something about that.
We wouldn't want to deprive you of a talking point, or a statistic that supports your rather dubious claims.
Pray that we're not inherently violent; pray that blacks don't catch on as to who, and what, are extracting their hope, and drying up their souls like a "raisin in the sun."
Like a horde of locust, we will travel, from "sea to shining sea," devouring everything in sight, not leaving anything on the national landscape that's "red, white, and blue," and can be identified as that which have oppressed, and deprived a people of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
I'm not so naive as to believe that anything I say here will compel you to introspection. You're beyond that.
I'm not so naive as to believe that anything I say here will have an impact on your already hardened beliefs, conclusions, and misconceptions. You've closed your mind to that.
I'm not so naive as to believe that anything I say here will dissuade from the course you're presently taking, your personal pathology finding here a welcomed outlet, and a fulfillment as only this blog, and the comment section can provide.
That's the one thing you're not beyond.
On a less serious note, watching those little kids haul ass made me think of this video, possibly one of my favorite training song. Imagine this song on a wind sprint or hit the heavy bag?
ReplyDeleteSorry, but all this heavy talk is a little too much after a day of work.
Here's another hip-hop song for the Hoodrat Olympics.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but his what happens when I've been working in the office and get a little too punchy.
uptownsteve said...
ReplyDelete"Ample evidence Bush stole the 2000 election."
No, actually, there is none at all. It is more accurate to say Gore tried to steal the election, but failed.
The first count, Bush won. every recount, Bush won. Analysis done long after election showed that Bush won. All of the problems were in districts run by democrats.
This idea was projection in 2000; today it's pathetic self-delusion.
black diaspora, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteYes, it's the environment, both within and without, that contributes to the pathology, but you, and many whites like you, repudiate your part in the whole matter, accusing blacks of failing to uplift lives weighed down by the burdens you have placed upon them.
Inevitably, you blame whites for the problems experienced by blacks. It's always this way. The same old blame.
Unfortunately, you're wrong. If whites were truly the problem, then by now the problem would have been solved.
Unfortunately, for you and your friends who believe you can lay it all on whites, the history of man says you're mistaken.
If the problems of blacks were a function of white mischief, then you would have evidence. You would have an example of a place on Earth, populated only by blacks, that legitimizes your argument.
But that place does not exist. Moreover, it has never existed. While the white and asian worlds were climbing up the intellectual ladder, expanding their bases of knowledge and building complex societies, life in Africa was holding steady. Holding at barely more than a state of Nature.
In sub-Sahara Africa only the simplest societies evolved. Had whites never arrived and explored, it's likely today's sub-Sahara region would have remained the same primitive place it was when whites first began poking around a few hundred years ago.
However, whites did poke around and did begin exploiting the massive quantities of natural resources.
Yesterday -- was it Kenya? -- a bomb killed 64 people. That's Islam doing what it does in Africa. Among blacks.
Anyway, Nigeria has enormous oil reserves. So too does Norway. Both sell most of the oil production to consumers around the world, providing both countries with huge piles of cash.
Norway is a modern society of highly educated and prosperous people.
Nigeria is a horrible mess.
Norway and Nigeria both have the same advantage -- oil. Yet Norway has made a success of the good luck Nature gave it.
Nigeria is a nightmare where half the 100 million citizens are still waiting for indoor plumbing and electricity.
Nothing, I repeat, Nothing has stopped Nigeria from emulating Norway except Nigerians themselves.
The same sad story is repeated in virtually every country in sub-Sahara Africa.
In Africa, crime -- buy US standards -- including murder -- is out of control. Some nations have been in states of constant civil war for decades. Others, relatively recently, ended decades of civil war. Then there is the Rwanda genocide.
Then there's the fact that every year in Africa the number of people who die from drinking dirty water is FIVE MILLION.
This is staggering. If it were tough to clean water, then a dirty water problem would be less disturbing. But the leading nations fo the world are experts at cleaning water.
Black nations? Forget it.
Bottom line -- it seems blacks live in an alternate reality, where they are unwilling to face facts and acknowledge there are successful and unsuccessful ways to manage life.
I can only speak for the Black American experience.
ReplyDeleteAnd for all your writing, you still miss the most salient point. Whites who think like you, act like you, who lead from their own racial pathologies, possessing the power to impose those pathologies on others in their midst, must take the lion's share of the blame for what is seen as black pathologies.
Denying your culpability, which I expected, won't clear you of it.
Washing your hands of your obvious contribution, won't wash the stain from your collective souls.
No_slappz I've read it all before. You're quite prolific with your claims of black inferiority, and the evidence to support such claims.
You offer nothing that extricates you, and other whites, from your participation in the genesis, and development of the pathology you say grips blacks.
Were it not for your "pathologies," whites insistence of their superiority with deadly acts to follow, blacks would have years ago embraced the ideals of this country.
But you, and others like you, are poor ensamples of those ideals in which you say you believe.
I don't blame blacks for not buying, and imbibing, your "snake oil." If you're the product of that "oil" then what's there to entice me, or others, to drink.
Nothing!
BD, "But you, and others like you, are poor ensamples of those ideals in which you say you believe.
ReplyDeleteI don't blame blacks for not buying, and imbibing, your "snake oil." If you're the product of that "oil" then what's there to entice me, or others, to drink."
no_slappz is trying real hard to exonerate his soul and those of his ancestral Whites by putting down Blacks. As he tries to do this, he shows his own empty painful heart that isolates him from humanity. That's what hurt people do, they try to hurt others and no_slappz has got it badly. Clearly he is so despictable that His own family rejects and despises him. You see, there are some of us who know who he is.
You might think he is bright, but I see him as an unwise grandiose fool with an inferiority complex.
black diaspora, you wrote:
ReplyDelete...you still miss the most salient point. Whites who think like you, act like you, who lead from their own racial pathologies, possessing the power to impose those pathologies on others in their midst, must take the lion's share of the blame for what is seen as black pathologies.
As I said, the example of Africa speaks for itself. Life for blacks in America is vastly superior in every way to life in Africa's black nations. In other words, even though blacks in the US think whites are unfair as leaders, black governments in Africa are true nightmares.
You offer nothing that extricates you, and other whites, from your participation in the genesis, and development of the pathology you say grips blacks.
Many blacks like to claim the black race was the first race of humans on Earth. Okay. Let's go with that.
That means blacks had a head start in every aspect of human development. Thus, when whites discovered Africa and ventured into the heart of the continent they should have found a society that was ahead of the white world.
Instead, when whites arrived, they found people who had not developed a written language. No science, no mathematics. Not much of anything except some simple tools. Africans were more than 1,000 years, maybe more than 2,000 years behind Europeans.
It is simply impossible to claim the backwardness of Africa at the time whites arrived is somehow the fault of whites.
Meanwhile, the continent has remained astonishingly resistant to modernization. The resistance is doubly disturbing when you consider that many African nations have the mineral wealth to finance rapid moves into the modern world.
White and asian nations exist in varying states of advancement. Europe and North America are western leaders. Japan and Singapore are hot stuff in the asian world. China is catching up. Parts of China are more-or-less in the 21st century. Those parts include 200 million-300 million Chinese. But there are another billion Chinese who lag to varying degrees.
However, economic and social realities show China is advancing rapidly, if not evenly.
Africa? Pick a nation. Most are collapsing. Even Nigeria, with its extraordinary oil wealth, is heading for disaster. The disaster is the rise of Islam. Nigeria's population is becoming more and more infected with this destructive religion.
Singapore went from its past as an asian backwater to possibly the world's most prosperous nation, per-capita, in 40 years. Israel performed the same trick in the same number of years.
Japan and Germany were smashed to pieces by the Allies in WWII. From 1945 to 1952 the US rebuilt both nations. Now they are world leaders. Sixty years from worst to first.
Before the Korean War, South Korea was nothing. After the Korean War -- which ended in 1953, it developed into a world leader.
Africa. Pick an African nation. No matter how hard other nations have tried to bring change, advancement on the African continent has been nearly nonexistent. The problem is the people. The Africans.
no_slappz, you are right. Africans don't have what it takes to be human. Likewise, the Blacks in America are the same.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you suggest should be done about them?
anon 12:55-
ReplyDeleteyou ask the wrong question.
The question should be what should be done about no_slappz who keeps bothering Blacks with his useless bullshit opinions??
@no_slappz: "Africa. Pick an African nation. No matter how hard other nations have tried to bring change, advancement on the African continent has been nearly nonexistent. The problem is the people. The Africans."
ReplyDeleteLet me level with you: Nothing you say is going to change the facts on the ground.
And these are the facts: No matter how hard you try to shift the blame from whites to blacks, whites will always be held responsible for destroying races of people, for their own self-aggrandizement, when they could have, just as easily, used their energies, and their supposed superior intellect to help the advancement of the entire human race, rather than just their own.
This is the sin, and the disgrace of your people. And I won't relieve you of that guilt, and that stain on your individual, and collective souls.
You know: I've never once been to a white blog to denigrate commenters there, or to attack them for the prevalence of racism in this country, or to hold them culpable for the black pathologies that white pathologies have had a big hand in creating.
You know why?
It would give me no satisfaction. I wouldn't find it cathartic.
Now, I have to ask myself: Why would this no_slappz character come to a black blog, and spend so much of his time in an effort to convince us of the righteousness of whites and whiteness, and the comparative insufficiencies of blacks and blackness?
What slate is he trying to clean? What sin is he hoping to atone for?
What I hear, is what anon at 12:11 AM referred to--your pain.
I hear your pain. It comes through the words you leave here.
I hear your need to flaunt your superiority. I hear your incessant attempt to debase us here, on our own blog.
I know you think I should be angry, but I'm not. Truly, I'm not angry.
And, too, I'm not hurt. Nothing you've said here has hurt me. Frankly, I'm mostly sadden.
Pathetically, daily, you attempt to
chastise us by knocking Africa, or the black community.
You see: I'm more at ease with what's going on around me than you are. My spirit remains unruffled by it all, but I can't say that is so for yours.
You're troubled. Your soul is troubled. We can't help you exorcise your demons. If your soul is ever to be at peace, you will have to find a way to put it at peace on your own, or through the help of a professional trained for that sort of thing.
Using us for that purpose only compounds the problem.
"An attack is cry for help," I'm told.
I wish I could say, "Help is on the way."
mmm
ReplyDelete"Come on' UTS, come on and defend the fact that men with faces JUST LIKE YOURS have failed these kids miserably!!!!"
Oh geez, here we go with this bullshit again.
An argument can be made that the reason why we have this dysfunction and irresponsibility on the part of ghetto youths is because for three generations they've been raised by FEMALES.
BD 1:44 AM
ReplyDeleteGreat Post
"When I was growing up, the older Black men stepped in and taught the younger men how to be men. Well I guess that shit ain't happening like it used to!"
ReplyDeleteAnd I supposed the older women are schooling the young girls not to gap their legs for guys with no jobs no high school education either.
Maybe one day sisters like you will stop the self-righteous finger pointing and accept your role in the problems of the community as well.
ANARCHY AND CONFUSION, the tools of the deceiver, the slide of hand artist that keeps the truth hidden.The truth that led to the elimination of a culture, the pride and respect, and replaced it with a false identify.
ReplyDeleteOur children rebelling without purpose have begun to turn on each other. No cause, their identity is based in materialism.
Take a look at this blog and how we relate to each other. We concentrate on fools (beck and others of his ilk)and foolish things.
Let us concentrate on our UNIFICATION, and not worry about the false representation that others would have us believe that is truth,
Now, I have to ask myself: Why would this no_slappz character come to a black blog, and spend so much of his time in an effort to convince us of the righteousness of whites and whiteness, and the comparative insufficiencies of blacks and blackness?
ReplyDeleteWhat slate is he trying to clean? What sin is he hoping to atone for?
What I hear, is what anon at 12:11 AM referred to--your pain.
I hear your pain. It comes through the words you leave here.
I hear your need to flaunt your superiority. I hear your incessant attempt to debase us here, on our own blog.
I know you think I should be angry, but I'm not. Truly, I'm not angry.
And, too, I'm not hurt. Nothing you've said here has hurt me. Frankly, I'm mostly sadden.
Pathetically, daily, you attempt to
chastise us by knocking Africa, or the black community.
You see: I'm more at ease with what's going on around me than you are. My spirit remains unruffled by it all, but I can't say that is so for yours.
You're troubled. Your soul is troubled. We can't help you exorcise your demons. If your soul is ever to be at peace, you will have to find a way to put it at peace on your own, or through the help of a professional trained for that sort of thing.
Using us for that purpose only compounds the problem.
"An attack is cry for help," I'm told.
I wish I could say, "Help is on the way."
PREACH IT BLACK DIASPORA!!!!!
uptownsteve said...
ReplyDeleteMaybe one day sisters like you will stop the self-righteous finger pointing and accept your role in the problems of the community as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It takes a man, to teach a man, how to be a man!!!!
I'm just wondering UTS, are you patting your sons on the back when they "score" especially with white girls? I ask because you didn't give a rat's ass about social responsibility when you were knocking boots with white chicks back in the day and bragging about it on Field's blog just last year!!!
mamm:
ReplyDeleteof course he is!!!
only a pit bull can breed a pit bull pup!
i am truly enjoying just watching uts post all of his "embarassing & hysterical displays" herein...as always!!!
ReplyDeleteno_slappz
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your 12:23 post I realize how little you know of your own history, and so I would not expect you to know the history of the African or the African American.
I would suggest that before you past judgement or make undocumented comments that read up on the true history of your people and not just what was taught in school. Because you see your view seems to be a bit distorted.
After anon 12:11 threatened to peep his identity, no_slappz won't be back. At least, not with the same id.
ReplyDeleteanonymous, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteAfter anon 12:11 threatened to peep his identity, no_slappz won't be back. At least, not with the same id.
Here I am. Back again. Same ID. So, like everything else you've spewed, you are again -- wrong.
mr. i m black, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your 12:23 post I realize how little you know of your own history, and so I would not expect you to know the history of the African or the African American.
Let's start here: I do know the history of the world and the role of whites in it. However, other than recognizing that some historical activities are better or worse than others, I do not care too much about anyone's moral perspective. The past is past.
Meanwhile, I also know that black history is a very short book.
It may be news to you, but no one sub-Sahara Africa knew how to read and write -- before whites arrived.
When you go to a history museum and drop by the African exhibits, maybe you wonder why there are only a few simple artifacts on display. No books. No machines. No numbers.
Instead, spears, knives, bows, arrows, simple clothing, devices with no moving parts.
That's all there was. Life was lived in a state of Nature. In Africa, things have changed very little over the past 2,000 years.
I lived in Philly (germantown) for 15 years before moving to New York. What in the world has happened to my that city since I left. I thought it was bad in the 80's and 90's but you couldn't pay me to live there now and I'm in the Bronx, that's saying something! I'm tempted to blame John Street, but I know it is much larger than one man. I still consider it my hometown and I'm sad about what's happening to it.
ReplyDeleteYou win, no_slappz. Now we know what you have always known about Blacks around the globe.
ReplyDeleteFeel better? and thanks for your good intentions.
Sorry guy, after writing "Actually, Martisha, it is pretty simple: your mama and daddy needs to stay on your ass!" it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about. Blaming the parents is not the answer.
ReplyDeleteRwanda News Flash:
ReplyDeleteThe vice president of Rwanda's Democratic Green Party -- Andre Kagwa Rwisereka -- was found murdered a day after he was kidnapped. His body was dumped on a riverbank; his head almost cut off.
He had expected to run in next month's presidential election.
That's Africa.
"Rwanda News Flash:
ReplyDeleteThe vice president of Rwanda's Democratic Green Party -- Andre Kagwa Rwisereka -- was found murdered a day after he was kidnapped. His body was dumped on a riverbank; his head almost cut off.
He had expected to run in next month's presidential election.
That's Africa."
It may be the case in Africa, but it's not the case on islands like Jamaica or even Puerto Rico. Africa is a long way from America.
BTW, why didn't you post this murder on Field's most recent post?
It has become obvious that the indopoltious dentifiedic trompeteur de l'anus Bruno Leicht has become immerded with a poltroonic bunch of StarWar kiddies masquerading (in a lobstitious manner, of course) as cyberavengers. Turns out that they named innocent people 99.9% of the time and aforementioned psycho BL -- aka yours truly -- is tormenting them as he did an innocent librarian.
ReplyDeleteThe very librarian (and his ignobilious profession) that was immodentitiously scorned from the Parnassian heights of janitor land.
I do not (at age 47) have a CD, but if I did: Buy at Amazon!
Teens these days are so unpredictable and some of the reason why children lost their path is because of bad parenting and some are in the surroundings.
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