(And you thought that we had seen the last of the Shiites and Sunnis.)
The neocons and right-wing chicken hawks in America are itching for a fight. "We should never have left when we did" they cry. "The job was not finished. We should have kept boots on the ground." Over at FOX Views they are trotting out Judith Miller again for crying out loud.
If this wasn't such a serious issue it would all be very funny.
These are the same people who got us into this never ending war in the first place. We toppled a dictator who was holding the country together and who (although he was no doubt evil) was just what the doctor ordered for this unstable and volatile country.
So what now? Do we listen to the people that lied about WMDs to get us there in the first place and cost us an enormous sacrifice in blood and treasure?
Or do we wash our hands of the region and let whatever generational beefs they have with each other work itself out?
Before we decide what to do, remember this: America hasn't recovered economically or emotionally from W's war, and the usual suspects are at it again.
"The senator [McCain] wasted no time snapping back, hammering Stein for his “confusion”:
I think you are confused because you didn’t know what happened with the surge where we basically had the country pacified. We had a stable government in Baghdad, and we had the conflict basically — for all intents and purposes — won. We still got troops in Bosnia, a residual force would have stabilized the country. Most military experts will tell you that. So I’m sorry about your confusion, but the facts on the ground were that al Qaeda had been defeated almost completely and with the residual American force and at that time, a strong Iraq. Now, [Iraqi PM Nouri] al-Maliki is very weak. Maliki got worse after we left. And again, I knew this was going to happen, because we didn’t leave that force behind. And so I’m sorry about your confusion, but anybody who was there will tell you we had the conflict won.
Had it won? The daily bombings and non-stop carnage from that country ever since W's war started until now says something different.
In return, McCain cited residual American troops stationed in Germany, Japan, Korea, and Bosnia as having successfully stabilized regions American forces have previously occupied."
Senator there is no stabilizing this region. And if you of all people aren't aware of that, well then we are in some serious trouble.
Epic fails of Bush2 and his cronies, left the Middle East in tatters. Remove a dictator, create a vacuum, and every jihad group is jockeying for position.
ReplyDeleteThe British Legacy of creating a nation out of Kurd, Shi'ite, and Sunni warring factions.
War won't fix that hot mess. Maybe the UN and Iran can by creating 3 equal states for each of the factions to govern.
Same with Israel/Palestine. Stop fueling the Israeli war machine and allow the UN, Palestinians, and Israel (if they choose to participate) solve the problems to their own satisfaction.
Iraq needs to solve it's own problems. We did all we could do for them. All of the chicken hawks can scream all day. We are no longer listening.
ReplyDelete"And if that’s the case, because we need to have a residual force there to prop up the Iraq government indefinitely, is that how you see it?”
ReplyDeleteYes, that's precisely how the Neocon ninnies see it.
I mean, I'm sure they didn't set out to create that result with their completely idiotic, unnecessary war, but the unintended consequence was that either we'd end up with Iraq as the de facto 51st -- and worst - U.S. state, running the place forever. Or else a bloodbath for Iraqis.
Senator McAngry may not like it, but the American people do not actually want a 51st American state in the Mideast, filled with people from two religious sects that hate each other's guts.
So ... Iraqi bloodbath it is.
Iraq on fire, Americans threatened in Baghdad, mass beheading in Tikrut.
ReplyDeleteFive senior terrorists leaders set free for one deserter.
Congress is getting closer the truth about illegal gun running to al Qaeda getting the Libyan ambassador killed.
Ukraine has been overrun by the Russians.
Veterans are dying at the hand of Obama's cronies in the VA.
Tens of thousands of illegal aliens streaming across the border for free housing, food and healthcare.
Two year of Lois Lerner's emails that were subpoenaed by congress were 'lost'.
Six years into his administration to 'recover' the number of jobs at the start of the recession.
All that for $6 trillion (and counting) in additional debt.
America is weaker, poorer and more divided than ever.
What an absolute disaster for America President Nothing has been.
Thank God Obama has already announced that he's not sending US troops back there. If they couldn't do anything to stop the civil war in Syria, why would they think they could stop a civil war in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations, President Obama, for understanding the limits of American military power and the limits of American patience for foreign deaths of US troops under futile circumstances.
Believe it or not, things got worse in Iraq when we went into Iraq to kill Sadam Hussein. Things in that part of the world was 'just the way it should have been'. Of course, America seems to always know what's best for the middle eastern countries. America, with it's western minds always seem to know what's best for everyone else. Such arrogance!
ReplyDeleteThe best thing Obama could do is to admit we once again made an irreversible mistake in Iraq like we did in Vietnam: We went into the country to straighten things out but instead we screwed up things and a lot of lives are going to suffer because of our ignorant dumb mistakes.
We have no friends in Iraq, and we damn sure don't have any in Vietnam. Actually, I am not sure 'if' we have any true friends?
All things around the globe indicate that America has no control over any country, including America.
ReplyDeleteI have an eerie feeling that America is about done. And maybe even earth itself.
Some of us need to pray more and play political speculation less. After all, how many pundits are usually right? NONE.
Pray, people. Pray.
That OLD ASS jonh McCain Shot down one of his OWN planes right before he BLOWN out of the SKY.
ReplyDeleteAtty. Francis L. Holland said...
ReplyDeleteThank God Obama has already announced that he's not sending US troops back there. If they couldn't do anything to stop the civil war in Syria, why would they think they could stop a civil war in Iraq.
----
I'm not arguing to go back into Iraq, but the difference there is that we have a security agreement with the lawful government, and Iraq is being attacked by terrorists who are beheading people in the streets.
In Syria, Obama tried to get us to go to war on the side of Al Qaeda in order to topple the lawful government of Syria. The only thing that stopped him was the Republican congress.
You are not really a lawyer, are you?
The World has a FOX JEW problem. These are the same BARBARIANS that OPENLY ask for the GENOCIDE of Iranians, yea, the fox FAKE JEWS. They are really a SOB, Sheldon Adelson said, " the u.s should fire ATOMIC BOMBS at Iran." On October 22.2013, you NOTICED the BARBARIAN said the U.S should do it. HELL, the SO-CALLED SIX DAY war was fought by american pilots, they PAINTED their airplanes to look liie Israeli airplanes. I find it easy to believe why they were EXPELLED from over 100 countries. They just find it SO EASY to send OUR YOUNG to DIE in their DIRTY wars. They even DEMAND IT. When my children gets old enough, i will NEVER allow them to DIE for those DIRTY BASTARDS. If they do put their lives on the line it will be for Black LIBERATION. PLAIN & SIMPLE.
ReplyDeleteThis is so depressing. Field, when the hell are you going to post something uplifting and fun? Why are you and some of your FN Negro buddies so damn negative?
ReplyDeleteOne thing I have noticed during my lifetime going back in history as far as American history can take you, is that the wm has a wretched history. It's one that kills lots and lots of people. He is the greatest sin against humankind as well as God. He poisons everything he touches...Look what he has done to Obama!
I can only endorse your comments in their entirety, and add my own condolances to the McCaine family on their patriarch's embarrassingly public dotage.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to another no win situation. This is going to happen in Afganistan in a few years.
ReplyDeleteFrancis, are you still in Brazil? How is the World Cup affecting the citizens there?
ReplyDeleteAnon@10:28, I see u have the right wing talking points down pat. But check the unemployment numbers and the Dow. My home has gotten most of its value back, and I am sure others feel the same way.
As for the other "scandals", well FOX Views has to fill their programming.
When it comes to foreign policy please read what some of the other people commenting said.
They were on the $.
These same white male, repugnican right-wing/nut mutha fu..as brought us Sept.11th. War criminals, Bush and Cheney took us into Afghanistan - not to stamp out Al Quaeda, but for the lucrative $$$ in poppy production. Dumb-ass, tabloid-addicted A-merry-kkkans "drank the kool-aid" of WMD and off to Baghdad we went.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, back on the plantation, nigglet terrorists reign in places like Oakland, Chicago, Camden - well, where DON'T they terrorize your grandmother and mine?
Karma is a bitch... We whistle, "rap" and dance while the empire burns. Bless us all.
ReplyDeletefield negro said...
But check the unemployment numbers
Better yet, check out the Labor Participation Rate.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
Less Americans working and looking for work. Thus, lower unemployment.
Meier has been out of work for three years, and she's what the Labor Department calls "marginally attached" to the labor force. Because she hasn't actively looked for a job in the last four weeks, she's not counted among the unemployed.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/08/02/208078183/four-reasons-why-millions-of-americans-are-leaving-the-workforce
Great, the government doesn't consider her unemployed. See how easy it is for Obama to lower unemployment.
Have you noticed the gap between the rich and the poor has widened under Obama? CEOs are making more now than before Obama. The Stock Market is doing great for the people rich enough to have money to invest. 47% of the country doesn't make enough $ to pay taxes, let alone play in the stock market.
Sure, you've gotten most of the value back on your house as most of the other people privileged enough to buy houses.
U.S. Homeownership Rate Falls to the Lowest Since 1995
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-29/u-s-homeownership-rate-falls-to-the-lowest-since-1995.html
Not everyone is as lucky as you FN.
As for the other "scandals", well FOX Views has to fill their programming.
Any comment on the IRS emails "disappearing?"
How convenient for Obama that any proof just magically disappeared.
And lucky for Obama his minions will insist there is nothing wrong with IRS emails going missing. No scandal. Just an honest mistake deleting multiple copies of the email backed up on different servers.
Nice cover FN.
I've looked and looked for George W. Bush Square, Dick Cheney Boulevard and Donald Rumsfeld Avenue in Baghdad. I'll be damned if i can find any of them.
ReplyDeletefield negro said...
ReplyDeleteAs for the other "scandals"
Perspective.
Nixon 18.5 minutes deleted
Lois lerner 2 years deleted
Not all deleting of evidence is equal.
I have often wondered why Americans think the rest of the world wants to live and be like America? Why do we go into countries we have no business in? Be assured, we will never build allies that way.
ReplyDeleteWe should have learned from RVN...Why can't we understand that countries have to live their lives according to their own culture and heart, not the American way.
America is not God, nor is it the policeman and executor and executive of planet earth. We need to understand this and get out of the destructive war business and get into the 'helping' business of feeding starving people on the earth. We have wasted trillions of dollars fighting wars we could never win. That's the problem with war. In the end, the winner loses. The final result is a lot of human suffering.
Hell, America has its own problems, which it refuses to face. Yet, it goes around the world telling everybody else what's wrong with other countries.
For instance, Blacks are being pushed off of land...AGAIN...do it ever stop?
Racism. This alone will take many generations to eradicate. This needs to be handled, but nothing is done.
The Mexican crisis: immigration and racism from Mexicans toward native American Blacks born here. Who do these folks think they are? And why do other Americans put up with it?
Why do Blacks like Field and PX support immigration of those who are bent on destroying Blacks?
When do we stand up for ourselves? Don't answer...it's been a 'mantra' that's been going on for centuries.
The truth is, we don't know how to care for US. We only know how to care for others. We are still slaves in mind, body and spirit.
I too always wonder why would ANY COUNTRY would want to be like this RACIST HELL HOLE of a country. Good point.
DeleteBill, you are too smart for Field and PilotX. Do you enjoy ripping them apart?
ReplyDeleteBe careful. Field has said he is a good debater.
And PX? You have encountered his debating skills. Judging from your comments to him, you aren't concerned.
Must you tear down our FN heroes?
ReplyDeletefield negro said...
As for the other "scandals", well FOX Views has to fill their programming.
A government IRS employee targeted people she didn't agree with politically.
She took the 5th amendment.
2 years of her emails magically disappeared.
Perspective-
Imagine an American refuses to speak to the IRS and then tells the IRS all their records magically disappeared from their computers.
The worst possible outcome would happen to the American citizen.
Leave.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of people trying to get in. We won't miss you.
field negro said...
ReplyDeleteAnon@10:28, I see u have the right wing talking points down pat. But check the unemployment numbers and the Dow. My home has gotten most of its value back, and I am sure others feel the same way.
-----
The unemployment numbers are a complete sham due to the manipulation of the labor participation rate. Any gains have been due to an energy boom that Obama has done his best to kill.
The stock market is up because the Fed has been pumping $85 billion a month of printed money into the economy. At zero percent interest rates, this money has nowhere else to go. It's called a bubble. Bubbles inevitably burst.
Your home may be worth more dollars, but those dollars are worth less and less. When mortgage rates go to their Carter era levels, as must happen at the point the Fed is forced to stop printing worthless money, no one will be able to afford to buy your house.
We are all going to pay dearly for the actions of the past 15 years.
One thing we must NOT over look, & that is, the arab nations are COWARDLY, PLAIN & SIMPLE. Who stood up for the VICTIMS of Israel, the TERRORIST STATE ? they, the arabs won't even protest here in america like Black People did on behalf of our Brothers & Sisters in S. Africa. TOTAL SILENCE. The PAIN inflicted on arabs by Israel is VERY EXTREME but the arabs will KILL Black People in Libya & think nothing about it & thats why i have NO LOVE for arabs. NONE AT ALL, i could CARE LESS. The SILENCE of the SO-CALLED arab league SO-CALLED leaders are APPALLING to say the least. I once heard an arab SO-CALLED leader ask where was Black People in this, & my response is, are you F#@! $#g kidding me ? the way YOU treat Black People in said countries. Where was arabs when it came to the ATROCITYS that were COMMITTED on Black People in Libya ? NO, the arabs gets NO LOVE from me & this is what i teach my Children. I remember in Iraq, the demonstrators who went into the streets caused brief chaos after they burnt the flag of Israel. These same demonstrators started to CRY when they learned members of the SO-CALLED arab league DELAYED several discussions to be held regarding the Israel / Palestinian crises. Go figure. COWARDS.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletefield negro said...
...
well FOX Views has to fill their programming.
Back on your scary fox news meme again?
Didn't I agree with you that abc nbc cbs gets in 1 hour something like 20 times fox daily?
And you're still worrying yourself about fox news?
Seriously?
You remind me of those scared that 3% of the population is going to turn the other 97% gay.
Except your scared of little fox news turning the country into right-wingers.
Sounds just as absurd as those scared of gay people.
Speaking of how things might have been better in Iraq back in the good old days of the butcher Saddam (or, as the Daily Show puts it, "Iraq Classic") ... :
ReplyDeletehttp://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ohcztr/mess-o-potamia---classic-iraq
Are we still trying to create an IRS scandal? That might be hard work but the right seems to be up to the challenge. Were any of the organizations investigated denied tax exempt status?
ReplyDelete"Are we still trying to create an IRS scandal?"
ReplyDeleteHell yeah! Republican functionaries will definitely be trying to make that happen at least until a fresher fake scandal comes along. What else can you be expected to do if you're a member of the government ... yet you hate the government and wan to wreck the government?
Whacking off in the House Chamber is usually discouraged, as it lacks decorum. Launching endless investigations of stuff that never happened is the next best thing, the legislative equivalent of literally masturbating on the taxpayer's dime.
More truthful GOP slogan:
Government is the problem. Vote for us and we'll prove it.
I just want to know one thing, why did the Iraqi army folded like a stack of cards & RAN AWAY SCREAMING LIKE a bunch of BITCHES ?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletePilotX said...
Were any of the organizations investigated denied tax exempt status?
Delayed, not denied.
In your opinion, why did the IRS only target right-wing groups to delay before the election?
Bill, first off it was not only right leaning groups that were targeted and secondly the vast majority of the groups applying for tax exempt status were conservative organizations so it would stand to reason they would get the most scrutiny. This is only a problem because of the ambiguous statutes that were put in place to trump the law that stated groups applying for tax exempt status have to be "exclusively" social welfare organizations. If the law was followed this would be a no-brainer. If this is such a problem then why are we not trying to enforce the law so this won't happen again. If you want to make this into a "scandal" you can but this is really just government workers trying to make heads or tails out of a very subjective statute. No scandal.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bill even admits, after all of this obvious political organizations still got tax exempt status.
ReplyDeleteBill, I hate to let facts get in the way of your opinions, but the IRS also gave left wing groups a hard time.
ReplyDeleteField, you aren't letting facts get in the way at all. The harassment was strictly against Tea Party and similar groups.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeletePilotX said...
If you want to make this into a "scandal" you can but this is really just government workers trying to make heads or tails out of a very subjective statute. No scandal.
Of course.
Nothing says trying to make heads and tails of your job like lawyering up and pleading the 5th.
Nothing says trying to make heads and tails of your job like having all the related emails go missing.
Nothing says like trying to make heads and tails of your job like getting bonuses for doing a good job.
Yes PilotX, once the election was over all the irs applications were approved.
Good thing that more $ was donated to romney so the right can;t complain that the irs altered the election. After all, even you and I have to agree money wins in politics.
field negro said...
ReplyDeleteBill, I hate to let facts get in the way of your opinions, but the IRS also gave left wing groups a hard time.
Thinkprogess also says left wing groups were targeted. They have official irs documents showing the keywords that are more left (blue, progressive) than tea-party etc.
Last year, the IRS acknowledged that it had improperly flagged groups applying for tax-exempt status for additional scrutiny if they contained common Tea Party keywords in their applications.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2014/04/23/3429722/irs-records-tea-party/
Missing from the article were the names of any of these alleged liberal groups that were targeted.
Did the IRS acknowledge they improperly flagged left wing groups?
Isn't it entirely possible the purpose was to break Iraq into warring factions? That way Iraq would never become an economic threat again. Isn't really all about the loss of influence of the U.S. (petro) Dollar?
ReplyDeleteNow, 61 years after the end of the Korean War, we keep 30,000 troops near the border in South Korea to keep the dictators in North Korea from getting big ideas about invading the South.
ReplyDeleteKeeping US troops in place is an effective deterrent that keeps a lid on most trouble-makers.
Obviously the presence of US troops in Iraq was having the expected impact. Our troops deterred the Islamists.
Now that our troops have left Iraq, the Islamists are unchecked in their work of ending the freedom and prosperity that was redefining Iraqi society.
Had our troops remained, the Islamists might have set off the occasional explosion, or committed the occasional suicide bombing, but the impact would have been minimal.
Now? It looks like Iraq will undergo some terrible changes that will return many Iraqis to lives of misery.
Bill, a lack of evidence does not constitute evidence. A year into this after several congressional inquiries no evidence has been found. Of course Ms. Lerner lawyered up and listened to the advice of her attorney, wouldn't you? As far as e-mail in the electronic age nothing is truly destroyed. Lastly, we need to clarify the laws about tax exempt status. This wouldn't be an issue because those groups shouldn't have gotten that status because they were obviously political. Clarify this law so this won't happen again don't you agree?
ReplyDelete"It looks like Iraq will undergo some terrible changes that will return many Iraqis to lives of misery"
ReplyDeleteWell, you should talk to President Bush and Cheney about that because they had no business over there in the first place. Even his own father warned him not to do it, but he did it anyway.
In the first place, America's beef was with Ben Laden, not Saddam. But nah, They got greedy for oil and made a complete detour that cost our economy in a huge way.
America needs to learn how to stay out of other countries' business and let them settle their own beefs. Oh yeah, and stop stealing other countries resource and end colonialism completely. Learn to live and let live and stop being so doggone messy, oppressive and always quick to want to flex their muscles with common folks' children's lives, but not their own children.
ReplyDeleteThe people are tired of their children coming home limbless and with mental disorders fighting unnecessary wars that cost huge amounts of money.
C'mon Granny, Cheney's Haliburton made millions on the war. Gotta keep old Dick rich.
ReplyDeleteWith McCain advocating another surge, it could potentially come back to haunt us that people don't know the Sunni rebels happened to turn against Al Qaeda right when we were sending more troops. Sunni rebel leaders decided Al Qaeda was worse than us and switched allegiances. The same conditions won't apply if we try another surge. Like many things, the media reported on the Sunni Awakening at the time, then downplayed it, and then gradually tried to erase it from history. I know the Huffington Post wouldn't even allow me to use the term, Sunni Awakening, in comments.
ReplyDeleteThe media is probably afraid of offending customers who want to attribute all of the military success of the surge to the troops. To be fair, the effort to wipe the Sunni Awakening from history can't all be blamed on the media. Bill O'Reilly tried to get Obama to say it when Obama was running for his first term. O'Reilly wanted to set up Obama for criticism that he didn't give credit to the troops. It would have been like saying Russia won WWII. Obama didn't go there. He just left it at he was wrong that the surge wouldn't work. He knew it wasn't politically expedient to tell the truth. Sort of like how McCain, in the same election, wouldn't admit that he didn't know who the Prime Minister of Spain was, after he referred to him as a banana republic dictator. Anyway, when the media steals our history, we don't learn from it.
ReplyDelete"Now, 61 years after the end of the Korean War, we keep 30,000 troops near the border in South Korea to keep the dictators in North Korea from getting big ideas about invading the South."
Not really the same thing, though, is it?
Although there is some grumbling about the U.S. military presence in South Korea, mostly they want us there and our personnel are safe there. Our history in S. Korea is that we saved them from becoming part of the basket case state of N. Korea.
That is not, and would never be, the case in Iraq. We were losing at least 50 servicepeople a year due to ongoing attacks when we left. And that number probably would eventually have gone back up again, due to the fact a large percentage of the Iraqi public hates us for screwing up their country.
Actively maintaining control of a powderkeg like Iraq is not like keeping a base in S. Korea, or in any other stable, industrialized country. Having an ongoing military presence in Iraq would have meant remaining at war with Iraqi insurgents, forever. John McCain may want that, but most of the American people definitely don't.
You're lying to yourself if you think voters wouldn't have forced a Republican president to bring the troops home.
ReplyDeletePilotX said...
C'mon Granny, Cheney's Haliburton made millions on the war. Gotta keep old Dick rich.M
No mention of bechtel?
I always wonder when people like you complain about haliburton why you NEVER mention bechtel.
Is it the connection to diane feinstein/democrats that makes it off limits for you to talk about?
You have an agenda, you have to push it
The men if the world are beyond insane; doesn't matter what title they call themselves. They're completely out of their mind murderers. Millions of innocent people have to lose their lives due to all their insanity. Men have become flatout beasts.
ReplyDeleteI don't recall Dianne Feinstein pushing for the war. But I do recall Bush and Cheney doing so. Please keep up. She also didn't have the ear of the Decider. Cheney did.
ReplyDeleteMaking it plain
ReplyDeleteField, I know that O does not have the will of the people to see this out At least not the majority of US military peeps who have fought been injured and then denied med assistance.??? Awe heck no!
We have a son and dawta in law both in the Airforce and after 15-22 yrs respectively neither are willing.
To this end neither is the average yahoo! HOLD IT! people This will only happen if O and the allies drop bombs..
??? Could this end up becoming a fear and misinfo about Moslems and the middle East etc that even those with common sense have become hawks and neocons smh!
Thius is not over and will never be over The Middle East and Asian moslems are going to inite!
ReplyDeletePilotX said...
I don't recall Dianne Feinstein pushing for the war.
She voted for the war.
She cited her experience with the intelligence community to know that going after Saddam was the right thing to do.
So no problem with left-wingers profiting off the war she voted for?
You really have a problem with treating people equal.
If cronyism bothers you, it should bother you equally when both parties do it. To whine only about one party shows that your simply a partisan hack.
"...McCain cited residual American troops stationed in Germany, Japan, Korea, and Bosnia as having successfully stabilized regions...."
ReplyDeleteSomehow, I don't recall the neo-con(federates) telling us in '03 that we'd have to have tens of thousands of US military personnel in Iraq for 50+ years. No, they'd better come up w/ a better story than that.