Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Flip the script.

"December 1, 2007 -- "If you're going to shoot me, shoot me," a Long Island teen said moments before he was slain in showdown over an Internet rape hoax, jurors were told yesterday.

Daniel Cicciaro Jr., 17, shrugged off the danger when John White, 53, raised a .32-caliber handgun to his head outside White's home, according to one of the four teens who joined Cicciaro to confront White's son in the racially charged clash.

In a Riverhead courtroom, Cicciaro's pal Joseph Serrano, 18, testified that White warned, "If you don't get out of here, I'm going to shoot you."
"You're not going to shoot me," Cicciaro replied, according to Serrano. "If you're going to shoot me, shoot me."

Serrano testified that Cicciaro had slapped White's gun away from his forehead.
But White raised the gun a second time and shot Cicciaro in the face, Serrano said.
His testimony rebuts White's claim that he had fired accidentally.

White, a black man, has said he feared the group of white youths was a "lynch mob" coming after him and his son, whom they had accused of making rape threats.
Cicciaro had become incensed earlier that night, on Aug. 9, 2006, when another teen, Jennifer Martin, told him at a party that White's son, Aaron, had used an online chat room to threaten to rape her.

Those threats were later revealed to have been the result of a hoax set up by a friend of Aaron White's on a MySpace Web page.
Serrano said Cicciaro told him that when he called Aaron, the black youth challenged Cicciaro to fight him at the Whites' home in Miller Place.
Cicciaro rounded up friends to go, but Serrano went in a separate car to prevent a fight, Serrano testified.

He conceded that he grabbed a baseball bat but said he never took it out of his car.
Earlier yesterday, jurors heard a 911 call in which another teen, Alex Delgado, screamed, "Yo, my friend just got shot!"
The jury also heard a 911 tape of what went on inside a car as the wounded Cicciaro was rushed to a hospital.

Serrano was heard vowing revenge, using a racial epithet.
"F- - -ing n- - - - -. I'll get him for you, Dano," he said.
Serrano broke down by the time the tape was finished playing. "I was soaked head to toe in blood," he recalled. "

OK Field, so now the script has been flipped, now it's a black man accused of shooting a white interloper on his property to death.

Now what Mr. "Racialist"?

Hmmm, let's see now; these young men were on Mr. Whites property, and they were making racial threats and threatening to do terrible things to his wife and son. Still, not sure if he should have shot the teen to death. But then.... given what I heard on the tape, I might have shot the little mother fucker too.

I know one thing, he (Mr. White) is being charged with manslaughter, and he is sitting in a court room now fighting for his freedom. The last time I checked, Joe the immigrant killer is still free.


thirst_for_knowledge said...

He shouldn't have shot him. He's now going to go to jail, and if the family doesn't have enough money then they are going to lose everything them hoped for. The Whites will win again. Notice how the family of the drunk racist were shaking their heads in court? They won't believe that their son was anything less than an angel. *sigh* And the guy and girl who triggered the whole thing get away scot free...

Anonymous said...

He shouldn't have shot that kid... in the face.

The leg, the shoulder, anywhere non-deadly would do. He shot that kid in the forehead and that's some cold shit, all things considered. even under threat.

baatin. said...

mr. white certainly could have called the cops. but these kids were trespassing on his property, HAVING ALREADY MADE THREATS to his wife and kid over telephone. as a black man, the sad truth is that he should have known better. it'll be a fucking miracle if he gets out in a few years, once this thing is said and done. wonder what they would say about this one down in houston. fuck, field, this shit gets harder to read by the minute, huh?

ps: you hear about the army dude from seattle? peep the story on the blog.

Blinders Off said...

I just blogged about an incident my husband had a service station this past Saturday that parallels this post. The difference is he called me to call the police because he noticed the man following him. I knew from the tone of my husband voice he was serious. I immediately called the police and informed them of what my husband told me, but I also informed the dispatcher I will protect myself and husband if the person following my husband came onto my property.

The group of boys was wrong in the actions and for that, a deadly tragedy occurred. Mr. White circumstances might be different if someone in his family called the police after receiving the threatening phone call and again once the gang showed up at his front door.

field negro said...

Yep, I agree with pretty much everyone here. He should have called the po po. I know 911 is a joke for US sometimes, but still....

Anonymous said...

sigh. Notice who and what was the main cause of this crap getting to this point. History repeats itself. Just like the Jena 6, who you think started the fuel. Too bad. When will black boys learn, white girls are dangerous to thier well being.

David Sullivan said...

Joe: Wrong

White: Wrong

Not to jump to conclusions, but since when are the names Delgado and Serrano the names of White boys? In my neighborhood growing up we had three Serrano families and two Delgado families and there wasn't anyone a shade under Halle Berry. If the name Cicciaro is Italian I can imagine him being "White", but we are all shades in a full spectrum.

I can see where a group of youths coming at you is frightening for any man over 50, but lets not embellish things to fit the story.

Anonymous said...

A white girl had something to do with Jena 6?

thirst_for_knowledge said...

Mr. Sullivan, ALL the newsreports describe most of the six guys as WHITE . The latest one is from the New York Times. The kid who got shot, according to his Dad, had a Puerto Rican mother. Of course, Daddy is using that to say that his angel son would never be racist and that MR. White shot him in cold blood for nooooo reason at all. The rest of the families haven't made any such claims of ethnic blood. Until they do, they're white.

Randi523 said...

Tough one for me too...I just we (as a people) need to stop being so trigger-happy. It seems as if shooting someone is the end-result of every conflict nowadays, from the little scuffles on the corner to the current war in Iraq...interesting that "Joe the immigrant killer" is free though...

JP said...

IMO, White is protecting his family from what appears to be a home invasion and attempted lynching of his son. They came to the man's house by the car load to fight with his son, they had bats. The man was protecting his family in a much more meaningful way than someone who shoots a fleeing robber. If you roll up to someone with the express purpose of assaulting someone its a much more dangerous situation than if you just come to steal.

Joel said...

I get the point you're making, but as a white person, I don't really feel like I "won" anything.

I personally think the barrier for using a gun should be VERY, VERY, VERY high. As in, you have to be in immediate, life-threatening danger before you shoot... not just "feel threatened" or perceive a lynch mob or feel endangered by a burglar/home invader/whatever. So I can't justify White or Horn's shootings (or the vast majority of gun crimes that go down in the streets every day).

Actually, they need to just ban handguns. People will really think twice before they bust out the hunting rifle, line up the sights and squeeze one off.

Christopher said...

In all of these cases I wonder why the shooter didn't call the cops and let them deal with it?

That's what the cops are for, when they're not busting hookers or getting head in the back of their patrol cars from a girl trying to get out of a traffic ticket.

In any event, Mr. White had the right to protect his family, his person, and his property from anyone making threats. The punk was on his property -- the punk crossed the line.

Anjanette said...

I'm afraid I'm on the side of Mr. White. He was protecting his family, most specifically his son. When it comes to 4 jackasses threatening the life of your child (and your wife), all bets are off. White people have a history of doing this kind of stuff to black people and the criminal justice system always lets them go. It's hard as hell to get a conviction against a white person who tramples on black rights. They had no right to be on his property and no right to threaten his son. You can bet your ass that if the races were reversed everyone would say the white dude was justified and there would've been no charges filed, whatsoever. Once again "white womanhood" is the reason for an attempted assault (or possibly something worse)on a black person. That shit gets really old,really fast. White womanhood is no more "valuable" than my own and the only time anyone defends it is when the supposed "defiler" is black.

Mr. White is an older black man and he lived through those times before the civil rights movement. He knows what they are capable of,probably saw it first hand and in my opinion, he acted accordingly. I wouldn't tolerate anyone coming onto my property, threatening my child's life either. I'm not crying any tears for any of these white boys. If you invade someones domicile space, you get what you get. No matter your race.

I know I sound like a right wing reactionary but I truly feel that black rights have never ever been respected and because of this whites feel they can do as they please when it comes to us.

One of their own, Roger B. Taney said it best" "the negro had no rights which the white man was bound to respect."

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Dang, Field, this incident is bringing up some bad memories for the Christian Progressive Liberal.

I'm thinking about my father. And though he shot dude trying to rob him in self-defense (and it was another brotha, mind you), thanks to the State of Texas, my dad pulled 18 months at Huntsville for defending himself.

Those punks came to dude's house, attempting to attack his son. The attack was racially motivated.

What the hell was Mr. White supposed to do - call the po-po and wait for them to arrive? We all know how the po-po tends to show up a day late and a dollar short, especially if Black people are the ones crying for help.

It also explains why Black folks' relationship with the Po-Po has always been piss-poor; either we're being hauled away in a squad car, ambulance or the morgue wagon, rather than being helped.

The fact I used to date a police officer - who was the Black version of Joe Friday, is not helping me with this, at all. It's jacking me up.

Which is why I'd rather put it down in the Fields, Field. It's the only way I can keep my sanity, and pray that every brotha encountering the cops gets to live another day, because they gun for you every chance they get, even the cops of color, because they trying to fit in with the blue brethren.

I pray Mr. White gets acquitted, but every time there's a chance to lock up another brotha, the justice system is rigged to do it, even if he's doing the same thing Mr. Charlie would have done, or for that matter, Joe "Redneck" Horn...

FunkyBlackChick said...

White/black/hispanic/asian/everyone has the right to bare arms LEGALLY and Mr. White was doing so, in an effort to protect his family. I'm sure he didn't know what those boys could have done. Yes, I would have shot to, but to shoot someone in the face? That's a bit extreme. Currently, I have 3 firearms in my house and I'll be damned if I'm not going to protect myself if I feel that I'm being threatened.

jp said...

Well White didn't have a license for the guns, NY is a pretty heavy gun control state, which I agree with. He's going to get a slap on the wrist for that, probably some probation or a few weekends in the pokey. I agree with the post above that says that handguns should be banned as they serve very little productive purpose in our society. With that said, he should walk on the manslaughter charge.

saywha' said...

Wait, so no one believes that the gun went off accidentally when the guy tried to push it out of his face? That isn't even plausible to anyone? Everyone seems to have already convicted this guy based on one side of the story and the trial isn't even over yet.

The dumb asses should have called the cops if they thought a rape threat had been made rather than taking some form of vigilante justice, I imagine they went after White because they figured if anything happened they'd likely get off/get a slap on the wrist as per usual in this system.

I am not convicting the man until all testimony is heard and all evidence given...and the fact is (unlike with trigger happy Joe, there has been no evidence to suggest definitively that Mr. White had the absolute intention of shooting someone (i.e. no 911 operator pleading with him to not go outside only to be told to stfu because the laws have changed and he can and will shoot and kill any damn person he pleases...I'm paraphrasing, but that the general drift)because quite frankly if that was the case all of the perpetrators would be dead, as is the case with the two men that trigger happy Joe shot. Also, there is no definitive that the gun did not discharge accidentally after being slapped away and that kind of shit does happen (but I know I know, it's hard to give a Black man the benefit of the doubt when the victim is White).

Should Mr. White have called the cops? Yes. Did he also have a right to defend himself and his family against blatant threats and violence? Yes. Did he have grounds to believe that he was in real danger? Yes. Compare that to trigger happy Joe who shot and killed TWO people for STEALING (not robbing)even though the perpetrators were in another house and were LEAVING the grounds at the time...give me a break here.

What I would like to know is are these idjiot boys going to be charged with anything? Let me guess, no cause they suffered enough...::roll eyes::.

saywha' said...

Oui, please excuse spelling/grammatical errors in post above. I'm trying to do a bunch of things at once plus I was/am feeling a bit to annoyed/disturbed by this whole story.

saywha' said...

You know what I'm also going to say this: Worst case scenario if he is found guilty perhaps he should be sentenced the way Soon Ja Du was sentenced for killing Latasha Harlins. That is all.

Dave said...

If a group of guys came to my house and threatened my family, then when I put a gun to one of their heads and threatened him, all he did was slap my hand and dare me to shoot him, I'd say I'd have a pretty good basis to believe that the guys were unstable and dangerous.

It really sucks for the kid who got shot, but I can't blame White for doing it.

That being said, he's lucky the prosecutors are only charging him with manslaughter.

thirst_for_knowledge said...

You mean he's lucky the grand jury said he should be charged with manslaughter. The prosecutor wanted murder 2, I believe.

solrac2002 said...

Man, I was running through the channels, sitting on my cloud and saw this dude, Ousala Aleem, getting reamed on Bill O' Reillys show. He is the force behind "Criminals Gone Wild" I hate to say it but I was, for the first time, on Bills side to a certain degree on this one. And of course nothing but us colored folks in front on the camera doing some dumb's the link. Everybody needs to see this..

saywha' said...


So what your saying is he's found away to make a profit off of what the news usually shows in some form of fashion for free?

And lawd nos us colored folks does have us a monopoly on doing stupid shit i.e. committing crimes even though the fact is each year significantly more Whites are arrested for committing crimes (yes including violent ones) in America and significantly more Whites use AND deal significantly more drugs than Blacks.

Yet somehow, despite this, the majority of people who eventually end up in prison are Black. Guess FN needs to talk to his peers in the business.

Also, why the hell does everyone need to see that shit? To reinforce the media/American narrative that Blacks are degenerate when the truth of the matter is the number of Blacks committing crimes etc. is ridiculously small, and the number of Blacks doing good things/living normal lives is extremely high? As soon as I opened the article I was like, if the word thug is NOT used in this article (especially since its from the WORLD RENOWNED Daily News which is not fit to line a birds cage, yet is still a step up from the New York Post) And this isn't a matter of being in denial to what the tape shows, (I refuse to watch it) as I'm sure it does show a handful of idiots engaged in idiotic activity, unfortunately, said activity is now going to be foisted as being yet more proof that Blacks are just naturally born criminals...and I am fucking sick of this bullshit narrative, because this fallacy is always used as the starting point of "conversation" about policy etc. and as a result NOTHING of any significance gets done because if Blacks are fucked up beyond repair then why the hell should people waste their precious tax dollars trying to "fix" them? (Never mind that Blacks pay tax dollars too and that money not invested into schools/education/programs to help honest people advance now will likely be money wasted on prisons later). They should just work on fixing themselves themselves and learn to stop lying and engaging in bad behavior, and learn to save money and stop pissing their money away and yadda yadda yadda because throughout history there have been few if any White person who have every been guilty of doing the above and gotten away with it (:cough: GWB Jr. :cough: and I'm going to end the list of people there because this post is long enough as it is).

Jesus wept.

saywha' said...

Damn it! Again, sorry for the typos/grammatical errors, etc. in the post above i.e. "last paragraph should read "because throughout history there have been few if any White PEOPLE who have EVER been guilty of doing the above OR WORSE and GETTING away with it" etc.

dekala said...

Mr White calls the police, gets his gun to hold the "boys" off until the police get there. Police roll up they see a black man holding a gun. Mr White is shot to death by officers. News story..police shoot man who was threatening his sons classmates over a dispute, they also feared for their lives when he REFUSED to put the gun down. . jail is better than dead.

saywha' said...

Also to finish the statemen: "As soon as I opened the article I was like, if the word thug is NOT used in this article (especially since IT'S from the WORLD RENOWNED Daily News which is not fit to line a bird's cage, yet is still a step up from the New York Post)"....

what I was planning on doing was throwing a massive block party in celebration of the fact that us colored folks was truly free now and we could all join hands and recite MLK Jr's speech and sing happy songs of freedom and await sweet manna to fall from the sky...

I sometimes think I just should refrain from writing when I get pissed off like this but I rather get the words out with a few spelling/grammatical errors in tow at this point, than to not say anything at the future, I will work on hitting the preview button first though.

solrac2002 said...

Personally, I can care less about your grammer, mine sucks so I can't really speak on it. But I can say that you were just as pissed off as I was when I heard about this video. I'm not mad for a brother trying to make it in this country, but sometimes I asked, at what price? I think what pissed me off even more is that Bill was giving it to him and dude really didn't have any good responses. Bill asked, "So you see somebody get shot, you going to call the police, YOU have the tape?" Dude would say something like, "I really can't I'm here to shoot film and that's it" ( or something similar to it). Give that bitch Bill and inch and he'll take your 40 acres - and he did in this case. First thought that could be one of my family member, a good friend, Hell, even the asshole next door. But I just can't see how someone can see a crime and actually do something about it. Wait till NYPD starts following his ass and say he's withholding some evidence or aiding a abetting or some other cooked up language..I have a feeling he's gonna get it.

solrac2002 said...

actually not do something about the crime

Randi523 said...

Christopher: "That's what the cops are for, when they're not busting hookers or getting head in the back of their patrol cars from a girl trying to get out of a traffic ticket."


field negro said...

What the f**k? You mean there is a "girls gone wild" criminal style?

Only in A-merry-ca!

kid said...

Looks like Bill's trying to get the justification to use the "Final Solution " on black people. Someone should check to see if this is a real dvd ,or if Fox staged it like the tape of five blacks on one white guy that was shown on fox duriing the jena case.

4merphillyresident said...

I heard that "Criminals gone wild" guy on the radio the other day being interviewed by a local NYC station. I have one word for him. COINTELPRO

There is no way I believe that an ethnic man in this area, especially one with an Arabic sounding name, would get away with being an accessory to several crimes. If he isn't a FED, why isn't he locked up?

Maybe I'm a tad suspicious, but I see him like I see that brother at the New York times who made stuff up. They then get lambasted on the conservative shows . With the plagiarist it was the springboard for anti-affirmative action dialogue.

With this guy it will springboard the black muslim population as dangerous at best; Enemy combatants at worst. Hello, Guantanamo calling.

As a Christian African American, I'm still concerned, because in the end it all = black. That he's selling these tapes disgusts me, and moreso that I think he's been handsomly paid.. whether they sell or not.


Woozie said...

You been watching Da Ali G Show, Mr. Racialist?

Anybody with a working brain can understand where White is coming from, and from a backseat view I think killing him was a bit extreme. Then again, it wasn't my daughter they were threatening to rape.

Yeah Joe is still free, but you gotta remember this in addition to the skin color factor-different states, different jurisdictions, different laws. It may not be right but that's the way it is.

lalover said...

It's a sad day when gun violence is so prevalent. Ummm ummm umm.

Anonymous said...

"police shoot man who was threatening his sons classmates over a dispute, they also feared for their lives when he REFUSED to put the gun down. . jail is better than dead"
Quite Right, hell we have been shot for holding wallets, hair brushes etc.
Second, this boy sees White had a gun and still was aggressive including knocking the gun away? Obviously HE wasn't in his right mind and should have been put down like the rabid dog he was.

Michael Fisher said...

Anyone coming to my house and threaten to kill my child is dead. Period.

Ron Morris said...

White boyz should not go to a Negros house starting trouble is the moral of this story. This white boy was not old enough to know that negros are a violent hybrid.

If someone asks you to leave their property, you should leave. Pronto. Fast. Quickly. Comprende???

Likewise, negros should not go to white neighborhoods and commit burglaries.

Both acts tend to incite the "popping" of caps in someones arse. A good rule of thumb is to never go to another man's house and try to start a fight.

Michael Fisher said...

"This white boy was not old enough to know that negros are a violent hybrid."

Hmmmm. A group of white kids run up to someone's house threaten to commit violence, they are warned off the property, given a chance to leave, and still remain menacing, and the black father who does his job of defending his family in the face of the threats is of a "violent breed"?

Interesting logic...

Ron Morris said...

No, Mr. Fisher, this time I am taking up for the Black Family.

Only a fool would go on someone else's property trying to start a fight. The black father was well within his rights to shoot the offending intruder/trespasser.

Likewise, Joe Horn was right to shoot the offending burglars in Texas. He made good burglars out of them. He sent them to "Burglars School" in the sky.....or where ever it is.

Don't stomp white boyz unconcious for no other reason than he is white at school or you may end up in jail and spend a well deserved year there. Making heros of such scum on the MTV awards show only widened the racial divide. Don't think that whites don't notice this inequity.

Do do the crime if you don't wanna eat the lead. Don't mess with other people. Mind your own business.

If you don't, things could turn ugly. That is the lesson learned here.

Aaron & Alaine said...

Joe Horner: Wrong

John White: Wrong

In both of these cases, they put themselves into harms way, they took active steps to escalate the confrontation. White had ample opportunity to call the police, which he never did, not even after he shot the kid. When they called and said they were coming, that was the time to call the police. Instead, White and his son armed themselves and essentially waited to confront these boys when they arrived. Its tragic, particularly considering that the whole mess was started by a friend of the deceased playing a stupid internet prank. Multiple lives destroyed because of faulty judgment in both the Horner and White case.

Now, whats going to be highly interesting is how these differently situated individuals are going to be handled by the courts.

Anonymous said...

Hate is too great a burden to bear. It injures the hater more than it injures the hated. --Coretta Scott King

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