Sunday, August 02, 2009

Urban terrorist and the people charged to control them.


I will be the first to admit that sometimes a cell phone can seem like a deadly weapon. Like, for instance, when I am trying to relax in a public area or concentrate on what I am doing, only to be drawn into someones conversation who happens to be two city blocks away.

Still, I think it's a bit much to think someone is going to blast away and cause you serious bodily harm with their cell phone. Unfortunately, for 22 year old Woodrow Wilson Player, (What self respecting black person names their son Woodrow Wilson? The man was a flat out racist who segregated the federal government and praised the KKK. But I digress. ) the LAPD doesn't seem to agree. Pull a cell phone on the LAPD and that's your ass. I guess they hate cell phones as much as I do.
"According to a preliminary investigation, the incident began when sheriff's deputies from the Lennox Station responded to an alleged 'man with a gun' call. The suspect was allegedly driving a vehicle. The deputies made a 'felony' traffic stop, and the suspect got out of his car and ran, Thompson said. Deputies gave chase, and Player twice pointed a 'dark object' at deputies, causing them to believe he was armed with a handgun. When investigators searched the alley where the shooting occurred, they recovered a cellphone next to Player, not a gun, said sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore.'It appears the dark object was a cellphone,' Whitmore said. Player was declared dead at the scene."

Now before you go thinking that this is just another field painting the poor innocent black man as a victim of police brutality story, it is not. (Although this stuff is starting to get a bit much with LA's finest.) Shit like this happens every day. If that was the case I could do two or three posts a day with nothing but this stuff. No, what made me post this story was all the fascinating layers to it, and how it speaks to urban crime and violence.

This cat had beaten a murder charge before, and he was no angel. Like Snoop, he was a crip, but unlike Snoop, he was no rapper. Still, he should not have lost his life allegedly at the hands of an untrained police officer, or worse, a police officer determined to give out his own personal brand of justice. In spite of what scum like this would want. (Did I call these people scum? I shouldn't have. Scum deserves better.) If he was a bad guy (which by all accounts he was) he should have been charged with a crime, taken off the street, and left to the criminal justice system to handle him. If he was allowed to walk free because of poor prosecuting or policing, then maybe the people of Los Angeles County should vote out their District Attorney. Or maybe thy should revisit how their probation and parole department keeps track of some of these multiple offenders. And it's not only Los Angeles. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast a time or two here in Philly, --been in some of the worst holding cells in the district and in the prisons- I can tell you that incarceration is not a deterrent. To many, it's a badge of honor. You can almost see the pride in their eyes when you hear some of these young bucks talking about just "coming home" after doing time. It's as if they were home from college or some shit.
But back to my original story, because it gets even more bizarre:


"UPDATE: Four people were shot and injured this afternoon in Athens while standing in an alley where another man was killed Friday night by sheriff’s deputies.

Paramedics had responded to the shooting and were transporting the injured, three men and one woman, to Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. Sheriff’s deputies ordered a gathering crowd to calm down after what appeared to be a drive-by shooting.

Witnesses said that at about 2:30 p.m., an old model gray Buick with three men inside stopped in front of the alley and about a dozen shots were fired from the car, which then sped away."


This seems to be a new phenomenon. Just a week or so ago the same thing happened right here in Philly. Hell there have been shootings at funerals here in Philly, so I guess it's not so new after all.

Wow! We can't even let each other grieve in peace now. Is this is what it's come to? I would love to say that it will end and that we will get a handle on it soon. But when the people on the front lines who are charged with controlling these urban terrorist can't do their jobs, I really have to wonder.

139 comments:

Anonymous said...

Field,
I'm not being critical just want to correct something in your blog. That wasn't the LAPD(Los Angeles Police Department), but the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department. Two different groups (one jurisdiction is the County the other the City of Los Angeles). Only someone living in L.A would even notice the difference. You can even tell by the photo, Sheriff Department uniforms are brown shirts with olive pants while LAPD wears all blue. Have really learned from reading your blog but am always willing to jump in and correct when necessary. I don't worry about the spelling anymore but this is something different.

Mack Lyons said...

"The deputies made a 'felony' traffic stop, and the suspect got out of his car and ran, Thompson said. Deputies gave chase, and Player twice pointed a 'dark object' at deputies, causing them to believe he was armed with a handgun"

In situations like these, officers are faced with the possibility that a "dark object" pointed at them could very well be a gun. This doesn't mean they were in the right, but just sayin.

Anonymous said...

Field,
Like most big cities the homocide rate is frightening.
In L.A. I believe Woodrow Player was one of many killed the week of July 6-13th; L.A. Times has a blog and their count is up to 421 so far this year in Los Angeles County. Yes, it was a homocide and there will be a lengthy investigation concluding more than likely that the deputies feared for their lives and fired their weapons in self defense. All very sad but true in America.

Monie said...

Stuff like this always makes me think of that man who jumped the White House fence with an assult rifle a few years ago.

The police shot to wound him. He was taken into custody.

When I first heard about this incident I absolutely knew that the guy with the gun was White because they didn't kill him.

If a Black man had jumped the White House fence with an assault rifle in tow there wouldn't have been anything left of him but a little DNA.

RiPPa said...

Urban violence is very real. If it wasn't at the hands of the police given this cats history, chances are he would have been stretched out by a rival gang member. It's sad, but it is the reality of urban dwelling.

I have a cousin who just three weeks ago was a victim in a drive-by shooting in Chicago. He survided being shot five times with three shots landing in his stomach.

He himself was a gangbanger at one point but he had long cleaned up his act. He just happened to be visiting hyis parents in the old neighborhood and was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wring time.

I don't know exactly what it's going to take to curtail the violence; Green Jobs maybe? Hell I don't know. What I do know is that some assclown is going to come to this post and say that urban violence is a product of Liberals.

That, I know for sure.

J. Douglas said...

@ Monie, so very true. If the man who jumped the fence was black, you might have found saliva on the policeman's gun from them salivating at the chance to shoot at him...lol.

@ Field Negro, the comment you made about how those incarcerated seem to wear those "bids" like a badge of honor was right on target. It's is so disheartening, but so true. With all of my love towards hip hop, I believe this phenomenon came be blamed on it. Excellent post...

field negro said...

Anon. 9:02PM, thanks for the correction. My first job out of college was in LA, so I should know better. But it's always nice to be corrected by folks on the ground.

Rippa, sorry to hear about your cousin.

Thanks J. Douglas.

Mack Lyons, it's why we are having this discussion. I said this on a radio program the other day, and it's worth repeating; urban policing is tough.

Seattle Slim said...

It is sad that this person's life had to end this way: prematurely in a senseless act of violence. When I think of these things, I always wonder what happened, what went wrong in that person's life for it to end so tragically.

Rippa is absolutely right. If it wasn't cops, it would've been rival gang members or even his own. *SMDH*

Nihu said...

Hey Field,

It been awhile since I have commented but I still follow your blog...as someone who works in the Criminal Injustice Field and having attended many Law Enforcement Conferences, let me be the first to say that law enforcement officials have discovered cell phones which were converted into 22 caliber pistols...I've seen one in person and here is a youtube link showing one in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxIjkBVEtyE

Criminals are very productive these days but it's a shame they use all of that knowledge for wrongdoing.

So this time, I have to side with the police officers (ouch-that's a rarity...lol).

Much love, Nihuru

ps. the link you have is for my old blog...had to revamp it due to the change in criminal element that I am now working with...

Jody said...

Field, I know you are out there tryin to make a change, as I suspect are others here..... I guess what I am wondering is what will critical mass be? How many others will it take to shift this madness? What will it take for these young men to see futures without guns? What do they need from me to stop this nonsense?
I work with these guys. I see this every day. Even as I read this story I need to remind myself that MOST people are not living like this. Most people are kind, decent, caring humans just trying to make their way in the world.
What is it gonna take for these guys to join us?

Intensive Care???

Anonymous said...

You know, rural poverty can be a far worse thing in terms of just being poor --a lack of material things and services-- but urban poverty really eats up children and young people with all the violence. It's not just being poor or black or black and poor; rural black poverty exposes that for a myth. It can't just be the drugs because rural areas have plenty of drugs. I think that leaves the gangs and cities themselves. Part of the problem, I think, is the size of the cities. They're too big and governments instead of dealing with problems have ceded bad regions and left them every bit as ungoverned (without a government, really) as places like Somalia. I think Field's term, "urban terrorist" is appropo because these urban terrorists have taken over the swaths of land that local governments have ceded and they intend to keep things that way by terrorizing everyone and anyone who poses a threat to their rule. And they certainly rule by fear and intimidation.

So how do we stop the gangs? Well, to my knowledge, the only time we've been really successful at stopping gangs from ruling a territory they've claimed was when we repealed Prohibition and the various mobs, syndicates, and gangs were financially ruined. Had we done it sooner they'd've been all but eradicated but the more financially savvy moved into other areas. Still, it stopped the control they had over cities and towns and a whole lot of violence. I think this may be our only way now. Dry up the financial support gangs get through selling drugs and gangs will dwindle in both power and size. I guess that means legalizing even hard core drugs, something I'm not very fond of, but I think dealing with the secondary problems of addicts --who can legally get a fix-- may be a walk in the park compared to the wars we've got going on in our cities. I dunno.

p.s. I just noticed my security word is "clans" lol.

--j

grinder said...

The deputies made a 'felony' traffic stop, and the suspect got out of his car and ran, Thompson said. Deputies gave chase, and Player twice pointed a 'dark object' at deputies, causing them to believe he was armed with a handgun. When investigators searched the alley where the shooting occurred, they recovered a cellphone next to Player, not a gun, said sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore.'It appears the dark object was a cellphone,' Whitmore said. Player was declared dead at the scene."

The cops are giving chase, and he points a cellphone in their direction? Sounds like a case of "suicide by cop."

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Grinder:

"Sounds like a case of "suicide by cop."

You lost me there.

grinder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
grinder said...

Granny, you are running from the cops and you point a cellphone at them? Whether you realize it or not, you want to die.

Not that I think cops ought to feel free to plug anyone with a cellphone (other than maybe the guy -- white guy -- who walked through the park near my house today shouting so loud into his phone that I could hear him 500 feet away), but come on. What idiot pulls a cellphone during a police chase?

There is one possibility that no one thinks of: That the guy never pointed the phone but that the cops fished it out of his pocket later on and planted it where they did. You never know.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Grinder:

I dunno.

Anonymous said...

"The deputies made a 'felony' traffic stop, and the suspect got out of his car and ran....
Player twice pointed a 'dark object'...."

This couldn't happen to me because
1) I don't run from the cops (my gut instincts tell me it won't work)
2) I wouldn't once, yet alone twice point a dark object at the cops.

Really, what the fuck did he think? Why should the cops have risked their lives?
He died because he had a pathological lack of common sense. I am amused though to see how much more simpathetic people here are to this ass then to the poor elderly Korean lady who was killed by a black shop lifter. Regarding that I remember a lot of black's commented she could have saved her life if she had not persued the theif. Funny how we don't seem blacks come to the same ocnslusion when it comes to running from the cops and pointing objects at cops while trying to elude them. His death is far less tragic then the old Korean lady's. But we all know who people here will sypathize with.....

Anonymous said...

Do you think it's possible that white women don't have as many problems with the cops cause we don't pull bs like this as often. FN- ask any black cop you know how often white women run from the cops vs young black men. It may give you insight into why you are more likely to have problems with them then I am... (besides for the fact you account for 60000% more crime).

Anonymous said...

Field, we live in strange times. I don't think I exaggerate when I blame the last 8 hideous yrs under Bush et al. These fuckers made "criminal" into an accepted reality. It became - and still is - just a few months (does anyone take this into account???) into the Obama administration. People learn what they see before their very eyes. I don;t know that I am making any sense at all, but none of this shit leaves me especially surprised. We're all monkeys. eh? Monkey see, monkey do.

Sarah Deere

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 2:38 or Dmd, whichever, person you choose to be right now.

Can I ask you where do you see someone being sympathetic at?

Anonymous said...

Granny,
"Anonymous 2:38 or Dmd, whichever, person you choose to be right now."

Granny, you are right, he is Dmd. His pattern of thinking is distinctly anti-Black, racist and twisted. Remember his comment from the other day?

“But it never ceases to surprise me the outpouring of support that comments like that get here. I'd be more inclined to join into a respectfull and logical conversation if one was actually ongoing.”

It's the same dull dimwitted thought process. He lives off degrading Blacks because as a white person, he amounts to nothing.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 4:15:

Yup, along with other comments he has made in various names.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

He has even changed up somewhat trying to play people against each other. I sort of doubt that he is a he and is really a woman.

anoki said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

@Granny & 4.15 -- Y'all got him pegged. It's the same guy and now he's trying to play a white woman, lol. I guess he's played all his other characters out. Lord knows he's built enough strawmen too.

@grinder -- You're onto something with that last little bit. No one points a cellphone at a cop with their BACK facing them. Player was shot in the back three times. Someone tell me why it's not against the law to shoot someone who is fleeing and posing no imminent, and I do mean imminent, threat in the back?

@field -- Why o' why did I follow your link to the scum? Now, I know what profilers and those SVU detectives that have to investigate child rapists must feel like though I don't think profiling run of the mill murderers would make me feel so dirty and sick.

--j

The Angry Independent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Angry Independent said...

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I love how folks second guess Police in these situations. These are often split second decisions. These officers want to go home alive to their families every day just like you do. When someone is pointing an object as if it were a handgun.... officers aren't trained to request a time-out to ask the suspect "Sir, could you please let me get a closer look at that item in your hand. You are pointing it like a weapon...but I just want to be sure before I defend myself and do what I am trained to do". HELLO.... the real deal doesn't happen that way. That kind of hesitation = death or serious injury for the officer. Stop sympathizing with urban terrorists at all costs. That's one of the big problems in the so-called "Black Community" (among other bad traits). These criminals aren't always innocent victims.

And please read up on the issue of "suicide by cop". This is a big problem...and has been getting worse.

Unfortunately.... officers don't have the luxury of hitting a pause button and freeze framing time to assess every dangerous encounter they are faced with. They have to make split second life and death decisions. You can't realistically & fairly look at all of these cases in hindsight. Looking back on these cases will always give you much more information than what the officer may have had at the exact moment when he or she used deadly force.

Now there have been situations where officers have shot suspects...knowing that the suspect didn't have a weapon...but that is the exception. That famous youtube video comes to mind...where officers had time to assess the situation and probably knew that they were dealing with a suicide by cop case (where the suspect had a cellphone), but they shot the suspect anyway. But like I mentioned... cases like that are the exception.

Side note:

The fact that you are using the term "Urban Terrorist" to describe these criminals shows that you are evolving, lol. Slowly but surely, you are coming around Field. You even mentioned sterilization a few months back.... you are indeed making progress.

You need a lot more work though.

And I know you must have heard about the mass shooting in Chicago...during a funeral. It's an epidemic.

I know you see Police as inherently evil... but at what point will you realize that the urban terrorist is exponentially more of a danger to you and to the so-called "Black Community" than Police? I mean... I am not crazy about Police either... they are cocky, annoying, and often disrespectful.... many are boneheads. And they never seem to be around when they are needed. But I know that urban terrorists are far more dangerous to me...than Police are.

You should do ride-alongs with the Philadelphia Police.... ride with a Black officer...to see how the streets are. You claim that you are in the trenches...but the jail and the court really aren't the trenches. The trenches are at the street level. You haven't been in the trenches until you have been faced with being assaulted by a suspect...or you have to put your hands on someone...or someone lies on you about something...or you are at the scene of a fight between two gangs and you are trying to gain control of a chaotic situation. I have been through all of that. I have worked along-side officers for many years.... it gives you a different perspective.

That's my challenge to you... ride-along with Philly's finest for a week or so...and then blog about your experiences (day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5, etc). I think you would have a different perspective.

And i'm not talking about riding in the best neighborhood in Philly... Ride in a mixed...or rough neighborhood.

I doubt that you will take the challenge... I don't think you have it in you.

But there it is....for you to ponder.

I think it would be interesting.

field negro said...

Damn Nihu, you are kidding me? But hey, you sent the link, so I will have to check it out. Wow!


"I doubt that will take the challenge... I don't think you have it in you."

AI, I think you are being a tad bit judgmental,no? Don't have it in me? With all due respect, you don't know what I have in me, where I have been, or what I have seen. And actually, I HAVE been in and around the mean streets with some of Philly's finest. (many who happen to be good friends)been to morgues and crime scenes as well. My suggestion to you would be stop being so blinded by your passion for this subject. Things aren't always as black and white (no pun intended) as they seem.

I am not sure what you mean about coming around, I have been blogging about some of these these little monsters out on the streets and how we can get them off for years.

BTW, I don't consider all cops as "inherently evil", just the ones who lie their asses off on a witness stand (ask Jody about them)which end up costing innocent people their freedom.

Sarah Deere, i would blame Bush for three straight days of rain, so you won't get an argument from me. :)

Frank Drackman said...

PSSST, Field...
You must really hate George Jefferson, cause he was named after TWO Former Racist Slave Owning Presidents... Or Kobe Bryant, named for one of the most racist coaches in the history of College Football, or that Great Black Comedian George Wallace... WHO THE EFF names their kid "GEORGE WALLACE"??? Whats next? Adolf Hitler Jr??? And you don't have a curly hair on yo black ass if you don't post a pic of those racists that let poor ole Emmitt Till sit in the corner of a Garage like he was a friggin Chevy Smallblock or sumthin...

Frank

The Angry Independent said...

"I don't think you have it in you"

That was just to push your button... you are too easy. lol But I really would like to see you blog about your experiences being on Police calls.

For someone who says that they have been on the mean streets with officers, are good friends with them and understand the challenges of the job.... your comments often don't reflect that. I don't know how you could be familiar with that perspective, but not understand the threats Police face...or the action they sometimes have to take (often in a split second).

More often than not, you write from the perspective of the suspect, especially when the suspect is Black. I don't expect you to write from the perspective of officers...but rarely do you have a balanced view. The criminal is more often than not...the victim of an evil oppressive police force. That's all I was pointing out. And sometimes the suspect is a victim of police... but that's not in all or even most cases. It's just that such cases are the ones that make headlines...so it seems as if these guys are innocent victims.

I understand you write like this for an audience and to have a huge following.... I have to attribute much of your writing style to that... (a certain kind of rhetoric). But sometimes you go overboard...and reach too far with it IMO.

MR.R said...

I also have notice a upswing in violence among ya'll Obama supporters.

More people will be killed in these Democrat controlled cities than in Iraq this summer.

Dosen't Obama care about his followers being murdered ? Dosen't seem like it.

I hope Homeland Security is watching these Democrats.They need to be stopped.

La♥Incognita said...

Grinder said: "There is one possibility that no one thinks of: That the guy never pointed the phone but that the cops fished it out of his pocket later on and planted it where they did. You never know."

OMG, did Grinder actually say that. Don't worry, some of us were thinking that too.

field negro said...

Fair point about my writing AI, that type of crticism l will always listen to.But when people try to tell me what I have in me or have or haven't seen (especially when I have seen so much) well let's just say that's a good button to push.

BTW, it's not my job to be balanced.I have opinions and I express them.The balance stuff is for so called journalist.
(Well,except the folks at FOX)

uptownsteve said...

Mr. R sez,

"I also have notice a upswing in violence among ya'll Obama supporters."

You mind supporting that statement with some facts Jethro?

Because the fact of the matter is that in most urban centers homicide and violence is down to decades low levels.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/19/AR2009071902154.html?hpid=topnews

Seattle Slim said...

I can unequivocally tell you that the solution to gangs is simple: Better parenting; treating them like human beings; giving a shit.

I won't get into detail about how I know this, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the solution starts with prevention. We may not be able to help all the current members, but we can even change some of them for the better.

These guys and girls go into gangs because their parents are not there, don't care, are abusive, are indifferent, are also in the prison system, etc. The gang offers them a safe haven; offers them family. Legalizing the drugs won't do anything but free up their time to kill each other more, that's a guarantee.

Not every gang is about selling drugs. That's a fact. Some just like to "kick it."

uptownsteve said...

The situation in the ghetto will not change until people accept the reality of what caused it.

We are going on three generations (Moynihan first noticed in the early 60s) of uneducated, unsocialized, unsupervised children making children in the inner city and the phenomenon is self-perpetuating.

The whole concept of "family" has been subverted.

Rightwingers yap about black men "deserting families".

Horseshit.

Most children born in hood are born out of wedlock to teenage parents so there is no family to abandon.

Many times inner city girls view getting pregnant and having a baby as a right of passage.

And the baby daddy is either dead or in the prison system by his early twenties.

Bootstraps and poundcake speeches aren't going to cut it.

Nothing short of a Marshall Plan for urban America will suffice.

vdubjb said...

Safe to say, the LAPD is some Player Haters.... /David Caruso..

MR.R said...

The Detroit murder rate is up 20% compared to 2008's stats.

The murder rate in Obamaland is up.

Are crime rates droping becaue of less people committing crimes?Or because cities are under-reporting or manipulating their crime stats?


uptownsteve said...
Rightwingers yap about black men "deserting families".

Horseshit.


How dare rightwingers demand black males be responsible for the hood rats they bring into this world.


Nothing short of a Marshall Plan for urban America will suffice.

Yeah thats what we need.More liberal social programs to go along with the other liberal social programs that have worked so well for ya'll is people.

uptownsteve said...

"More liberal social programs to go along with the other liberal social programs that have worked so well for ya'll is people."

Name one social program that was for blacks only.

Take all the time you need.

west coast story said...

Oh, Christ. There is no such thing as shooting to wound a person. If you have ever fired a weapon, you would know that shooting at a stationary target takes skill. Shooting at a moving target is extremely difficult. Shooting a moving target with a handgun is almost guesswork.

I am so sick and tired of black people and their conspiracy theories. I have lost just about all respect for you FN after your outrageously stupid attack on the woman who called 911 on Gates. Your cornball theory is that she purposefully did not state the race because she was cleverly trying to hide her racism. She was racist, you see, but not enough to want the guys caught because by leaving out a key descriptive factor, she created a lot of confusion. But maybe that was part of the whole white plot. She knew this was going to be a national story and she didn't want to be accused of being a racist by reporting the race of the men she wasn't even sure were burglars (another fact that FN would have us believe is all part of the conspiracy). Secretly, she knew who Gates was along and she wanted to "get" him. Yeah, that's the ticket.

It makes good, blog doesn't it? Sort of like the cynical way that Rush and Glen and Sean and Bill-o and Lou do their schtick for ratings. Maybe they believe some of it and maybe they don't but it means big numbers (well, except for Lou whose CNN ratings have dipped sharply). Your homegrown theory about this neighbor is about logical as the birthers attack on Obama's citizenship. What law school did you go to, anyway?

Plantsmantx said...

"What I do know is that some assclown is going to come to this post and say that urban violence is a product of Liberals."

"That, I know for sure."

Probably, but with all due respect...so what?

"You even mentioned sterilization a few months back.... you are indeed making progress."

Forced sterilization is progress?

"Because the fact of the matter is that in most urban centers homicide and violence is down to decades low levels."

Thank you, Steve. Mr. R's denial means that he needs to believe that murder rates among blacks are rising. If nothing else betrays his patheticness, that does.

Dmd said...

Interesting post Field.

Sorry Granny, Dmd posts under Dmd and that's it.

It is interesting how the internet make claims with no evidence whatsoever, and then receive high-fives all around.

As for all the strawmen I've built Anon... You remind me of one of my ex's. She was what I would call a pseudo-intellectualy (which is probably what I'd call myself too btw; too busy to live the life of a true intellectual, and probably not smart enough anyway). She would learn a new word or idea (such as strawman, and then when she wanted to sound smart, or earn approval of those in her peer group, she'd trot out the new word/idea.

If I've built so many strawmen, can you cite just one of them? I'd love to have the chance to learn from my intellectual mistakes at your hands, but something tells me you don't have a single example to back up yet another baseless accusation. ("baseless accusation" - how many times have I typed that in the past 3 days?)

MR.R said...

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/07/detroit_homicide_rate_up_20_pe.html

Detroit's new Police Chief Warren Evans says 216 people have been murdered in Detroit so far this year, up nearly 20 percent from 2008.


More people have been killed in Obamaland this summer than in Iaq.This makes 2 summers in a row.


Yes "denial" is sweet.

Whitney B. said...

Anon @ 2:43AM
I don't often resort to name calling, but you are a real piece of puke, whomever you are.

Boy, Field, you can sure rachet up the racist notch when you've a mind to. They come out from everywhere!

Grinder,
Very interesting, suicide by cop. Possible. I have no sympathy for violence of any nature, but I reckon if I were a cop and someone was running and pointing something at me, I'd be a little more than testy.

Hey Kid,
Whassup with the house, anyway?

Plantsmantx said...

"

...and as I said, the fact that you need to see black people killing each other and find it "sweet" betrays your patheticness.

uptownsteve said...

Plantsmantz

Notice that Jethro...errr Mr. R totally ignores my question and goes back to ranting about Detroit when my link proves that violence in most big cities are at decades lows.

And West Coast Story, poor thing, is just the latest confused negro who has appointed herself "Defender of the honor of White folks everywhere".

She's so sick of "black folks and their conspiracy theories".

Oh really?

Perhaps WCS can explain why unarmed white folks never seem to get shot by police.

Why 31 undercover black policemen nationwide in the last 30 years have been killed by their white colleagues yet not one white undercover cop has been shot by a black.

I won't wait for an answer because I won't get one.

I'm so sick of Uncle Tom negroes I don't know what to do.

They ought gather all the fools up and drop them right in the middle of the white supremacist compound in Couer de lene, ID.

west coast story said...

Seattle Slim said...

I can unequivocally tell you that the solution to gangs is simple: Better parenting; treating them like human beings; giving a shit.

I won't get into detail about how I know this, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that the solution starts with prevention. We may not be able to help all the current members, but we can even change some of them for the better.

These guys and girls go into gangs because their parents are not there, don't care, are abusive, are indifferent, are also in the prison system, etc. The gang offers them a safe haven; offers them family. Legalizing the drugs won't do anything but free up their time to kill each other more, that's a guarantee.

Not every gang is about selling drugs. That's a fact. Some just like to "kick it."
*********************************

SS: Yeeeessss! You forgot the parents who are clueless. I've seen that up close. Parents, yes two, who just don't want to see what their kids are doing. When the swat team shows up, they find an aresenal in the kid's bedroom and the parents are all shocked(happened to my next door neighbor's kid and it got worse from there).

And you are dead on about legalizing drugs. Potheads want drugs legalized so it makes it easier from them. It will not take the violence out of gangs. Gangs will continue with prostitution, car theft, gambling, extortion, and just plain old stealing. The crips will not lay down with the bloods and sing Kumbaya if drugs are legalized.

US culture is violent by nature. No one is giving up their guns, whether they are NRA or MS13. Legalizing drugs will not accomplish jack. In fact, now that it is legal to tax MJ in Oakland at MJ "pharmacies," people are already saying that MJ is going to be cheaper to buy on the street. Guess what, it's always going to be cheaper to buy drugs on the street. And the pharmaceutical companies are not going to be making crank or crack so that market will stay illegal.

west coast story said...

UTS: Still struggling with that reading and comprehension thing, aren't you? It's good to see that you don't let facts or even relevance get in your way. And you left a big greasy nose print on your post. Ewwwww.

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps WCS can explain why unarmed white folks never seem to get shot by police."
Because we aren't as likely to run from the police and point shiny objects at them. This is called common sense. It's not taught in school.
Look at FN's previous post about the 3 white hikers in Iraq/Iran. He pointed out that these things seem to only happen to white folks that black folks never do things that foolish.
So if it is okay to assume that white folks get arrested for hiking accrross dangerous international borders more often cause they are more likely to do it than blacks.... it is not unfathnoable to believe that blacks just might do what this kid did more often than whites.
I am amused at the irony of how FN rolled his eyes at these foolish white hikers yet was unable to be equally judmental in how running from the cops seems to be the catalyst of many problems young black men have with cops..

MR.R said...

uptownsteve said...
Plantsmantz

Notice that Jethro...errr Mr. R totally ignores my question and goes back to ranting about Detroit when my link proves that violence in most big cities are at decades lows.

Detroit and Obamaland are big cities ya know??

So when i said i notice a upswing in violence by Democrats and Obama supporters i was right.

Understand killa??????

uptownsteve said...

Anonymous,

A white dude scaled the White House fence with a loaded automatic weapon and somehow was talked into custody.

So stop the bull$hit, k?

Thrasher said...

For Consideration:

1. Police patrol cars staffed with one social worker per car to diffused situations and assist with calming down cops..

2. Create Urban Schools Campus Dorms...Remove kids from dysfunctional venues

Summary: WE need solutions now!

Anonymous said...

@west coast story -- I'm the one who suggest legalization as a possible means of defunding gangs. Legalization (repeal of Prohibition) worked to destroy large segments of the mob and the gangs that ruled cities during Prohibition. In fact, the power and money of the modern Italian 'mob' has its genesis directly from the Prohibition Era. I don't smoke pot or use drugs and I don't appreciate the implication. Disagree with the idea all you want, it's only one possibility but don't give me that reactionary nonsense or imply only a druggie would suggest it --especially NOT when I offer a legitimate reason for suggesting the possibility AND do so with trepidation.

--j

Thrasher said...

Crime is a political construct ..More cops more crime..

Solution: Amend all penal codes, legalize drugs and behavior that is ciminal into non criminal..

Example Before Roe V Wade..95% white females were criminals that had an abortion now same woman are not criminals AGAIN remove behaviors from purview of law..

Less laws =Less Crime

west coast story said...

Anon 1:50PM. You are an idiot. You and UTS should hook up and form the Chowderhead Society. You need to watch a few episodes of "Cops" to see your brilliant white cousins in action.

History Dude said...

Thrasher,

It sounds allot like what happened in the Financial Industry

less regulation (laws)=more growth and prosperity

Of course, it didn't work like that at all. Nor will less laws necessarily equal less crime. If that were true, anarchy (a system of no law) would be the ideal social construct. However, some things do need to be decriminalized: Drugs, prostitution, etc.

Thrasher said...

Liberate correctional facilities retain only violent criminals...

Mandatory arm services for all those liberated from prisions under 45 yr.

Redesign all urban venues create full employmeny by teraing down entire neighborhoods and constructing new ones with labor form prision releasees and under/unemployed..

All urban schools with have dorms attached to them students away from negatitive venues now placed in venues where diets, therapy, etc is taught 24/7 again another place to employ folks to run schools, dorms, personell for 24/7 lifestyle immersion programs..

Solutions needed NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Plantsmantx said...

"Detroit and Obamaland are big cities ya know??"

"So when i said i notice a upswing in violence by Democrats and Obama supporters i was right."

"Understand killa??????"

Um...sad.

grinder said...

The cops might have shot the dude in the back and then planted the cellphone. But no one will ever prove it, and I doubt anyone is going to be trying too hard.

At some level, with guys like these it's one gang (theirs) against another gang (the cops). In that sort of fight, I'll be on the cops' side. Sure, we'd like it nice and neat and clean, but this is the real world.

Thrasher said...

@ history, I did not say decriminalize all laws just bulk of them..again less laws= less crimes=less prisions=less inmates..

I am not speaking about anarchy but designing new venues

History Dude said...

I'm the one who suggest legalization as a possible means of defunding gangs. Legalization (repeal of Prohibition) worked to destroy large segments of the mob and the gangs that ruled cities during Prohibition.

You are correct is suggesting that prohibition fueled the growth of the mob; however, its appeal did not destroy large segments at all. In fact, the mob's power grew into other avenues: Drugs, prostitution, labor corruption, gambling, etc.

Yet, gangs like Bloods, Crips, etc. are not sophisticated enough to move beyond street crime. It is likely that the legalization of drugs would largely cripple these groups. Still that doesn't solve the other large problems facing inner cities.

Anonymous said...

Dmd- ("baseless accusation" - how many times have I typed that in the past 3 days?)

You have typed it too many times. It must be a new term that, like your ex-wife, you are trotting out to impress us. Judging from the response, I'd say no one is impressed.

Thrasher said...

Our nation is ripe for a redesign...From private to public sector...

Solutions needed NOW!!!

uptownsteve said...

Plantsmantx,

Mr. R reminds me of those dittohead idiots over at frontpagemag.

If they can't reflexively spew crime and illigetimacy stats when debating race, their brains go into neutral.

WCS

You know damn well that Oakland sistahs don't go around calling people "chowderheads".

The jig is up.

You're some lonely white frump from Bangor, Maine, right?

Anonymous said...

@History Dude -- See what I wrote earlier. The mob was able to roll over Prohibition funding into other venues because we waited too long to act. And yeah, it did destroy large segments, namely a lot of the smaller players who couldn't move into new venues. What it didn't do was eradicate them.

Thrasher said...

We need a total redesign of both urban and rurual venues...

We need a complete overhaul,teardown of entire streets, sub divisons, housing units, shopping areas, schools etc...

America can not only obtain full employment but we can be a model for rest of the world..Our nation has reached its apex on one plane now we need other planes to evolve..

Anonymous said...

@Thrasher -- I don't know if I agree with you in practice but I definitely agree with the spirit of what you're suggesting.

--j

Thrasher said...

For Consideration:

Stimulus Funds:

1. Create One State Police Agency for each state..Create one model for penal code uniform for entire nation.

2. Hire ASAP one social worker for each patrol car

3. Release all non-violent inmates housed them in new units complete with therapists, doctors, nutrionists, new life style experts and new work assignments

4. All military returning from our wars must be re educated and employed in these new life model centers

5. America needs an lobor intense reconstruction on a micro/macro level NOW

MR.R said...

When all else fails resort to name calling. Wouldn't expect anything less uptownsteve.

Anonymous said...

WCS: "UTS: Still struggling with that reading and comprehension thing, aren't you? It's good to see that you don't let facts or even relevance get in your way. And you left a big greasy nose print on your post. Ewwwww."

ROFLMAO. Poor Steve, he tries so hard to get you, but always fail... Reminds me of the cartoon about the Fox and the Road Runner. Keep trying UTS! LOL

uptownsteve said...

Thrasher,

Like I said, A MARSHALL PLAN.

If we are serious.

History Dude said...

America can not only obtain full employment but we can be a model for rest of the world..Our nation has reached its apex on one plane now we need other planes to evolve..

Unfortunately, full employment is almost impossible to obtain under capitalism. You would need to fundamentally change the system (which it sound like you want to do.) There is another problem though: There are too many people.

As society progresses technically, fewer people are needed to do work. The bulk of the people that are needed have to be educated, often highly educated. While populations increase, more and more jobs have to be created just to keep unemployment from going up. However robotics, computers, streamlining of technology etc. insure that fewer people are needed for work that took many people in the past. The steel industry is a great example: Steel used to employ hundreds of thousands in huge, fully integrated steel mills. Technology and the rise of the mini-mill have lead to the downsizing of work forces (also foreign competition.) Gary Indiana is a prime example of this: The technologically related downsizing of the US Steel Works in Gary lead to the layoffs of thousands of workers and ultimately, the downfall of the city's economy.

field negro said...

WCS,still trying to defend Ms.Kravitz the racist I see.:)

What's the title of that old Doobie Brothers song? "What A Fool Believes He Sees"?

Scary!

And why is it when SOME people want to attack they resort to trying to go after your profession or academic credentials? It all seems rather sad and pathetic.

Who wants to play that game when we are just trying to have a discussion on the Internet?

I swear some ofyou "good Negroes" kill me with this stuff. :)

Trasher, I feel you, solutions would be nice for once.

Anon 1:50PM,I am glad the irony wasn't lost on you. But did you notice the stereotype about black people in the exact same post you referenced?

If you didn't, that might be the real irony.

Thrasher said...

Anon,

I am driven by the theme of putting a man on the moon..I have been in many irban venues of late..I notice a complete breakdown of society YET I also note a hunger and willingness of folks to be bold and try something BOLD NOW!!

We can alter the entire fabric of our nation right here..right now..

We need a passion, a theme, a drive, a national focus that is tangible and real and we can see actual results daily not visions of the future but real life change now!!

We can alter life now by relocation of students Sept 1, 2009 from all urban homes into brand new dorms which house seniors( to teach children wisdom) medical staff( to teach students role of health and daily diets) workers, business folks, etc all can be present in the dorms..

On Sept 1, 2009 WE CAN ROCK THE WORLD ..if we want to????

Plantsmantx said...

"When all else fails resort to name calling. Wouldn't expect anything less uptownsteve."

You're kidding, right? You have to be.

Plantsmantx said...

"We can alter life now by relocation of students Sept 1, 2009 from all urban homes into brand new dorms"

From all "urban"(?) homes?

west coast story said...

This is not 1930's America. The mafia continued with crime and violence for decades after prohibition ended by moving into other criminal enterprises. Prohibition was also not a multi biillion dollar global economy.

You are crazy if you think that street gangs are only involved with drugs and could not survive if drugs were legalized. They are already involved in prostitution, stealing and gambling. Street gangs are not just about drugs. Some gangs are involved with cock fighting, dog fighting, and fireworks is lucrative in the summer months in Oakland.

Right now, we have people who are running up and down the freeway at night shooting people who are not involved in any kind of gang or ciminal activity. Killing for sport in the 'hood has become like big game hunting without the long plane ride.

malik said...

Here in Hell A the suspect is more often "justifiably" killed for "reaching into his waistband". Following the theme of urban terrorism: At least the person killed this time was an actual "enemy combatant" whether armed or not. Many times it is stupid kids who adopt the look of "combatants" in order not to be harassed in the neighborhoods where they are forced to live.
If the government treated the organized groups of predators that terrorize the inner city as terrorists they are, more of our kids might actually survive their teenage years with their lives intact.
You would be surprised how many teenagers don't actually know that the "fashions" they wear are actually knockoffs of prison uniforms. WTF?!

Thrasher said...

History Dude,

Your approach is logical if we operate under your paradigm..yet unde the new life stsyle paradigm full employment is very possible becuase we have created entirely new occupations just for thee school project alone!!!

Imagine a landscape with thoushands of new school dorms staffed with new occupations from diet staffers to wisdom staffers to green staffers..Truth is we have more jobs then people!!

We must liberate ourselves from the tradition and handcuffs of existing life styles and paradigms..

People are ready for radical life style changes right here..right now!!

Seniors want to be useful again..students want to be educated, builders want to construct new designs, college grads want jobs, military folks want to come home and begin new lives!!!

WHY NOT..RIGHT NOT!!RIGHT HERE!!

field negro said...

WCS,still trying to defend Ms.Kravitz the racist I see.:)

What's the title of that old Doobie Brothers song? "What A Fool Believes He Sees"?

Scary!

And why is it when SOME people want to attack they resort to trying to go after your profession or academic credentials? It all seems rather sad and pathetic.

Who wants to play that game when we are just trying to have a discussion on the Internet?

I swear some ofyou "good Negroes" kill me with this stuff. :)

Trasher, I feel you, solutions would be nice for once.

Anon 1:50PM,I am glad the irony wasn't lost on you. But did you notice the stereotype about black people in the exact same post you referenced?

If you didn't, that might be the real irony.

Thrasher said...

Yes on September 1, 2009..We can remove all urban students from failing school districts( pursuant to requirements of Feds No Child Left behind rules) and placed them in dorms 24/7..

Our children must be removed for negative and inhumane venues not just for safety issues but they need to be in fertile soil for cultivation and growth..

Thrasher said...

I no longer want to waste my time in chatter class nonsense in chat forums unless those chats create some value..

I argue that they can..right here..right now..

Let's make a difference right here..right now..Let's alter the world path ..right here..right now,..

let's start something here!!! Be BOLD!!

Whitney B. said...

Just now got to finish all the posts.

@west coast story,
You're buying into the baiting again. I disagree with what you wrote at the onset, but you can't reduce yourself to their level. (Chowder Head Society!...too funny.)

Why did the chick hire that lawyer, anyway?

But, that's neither here nor there.

I really enjoyed the back and forth between The Angry Independent and Field. Good stuff guys.

field negro said...

Thrasher, I am listening.....

Anonymous said...

@Thrasher -- Now you're talking but don't forget about rural poverty. Both Delta poverty and Appalachian poverty get left out far too often.

@WCS -- Why are you building strawmen? Trying to make a bonfire? No one thinks gangs are only into drugs.

@History Dude -- Economists often address that problem with a guaranteed minimum income.

west coast story said...

FN: I would respect you more if you would just man up and admit you are saying some of this nonsense to generate excitement on your blog.

Anonymous said...

anon 3.03 was me

--j

Plantsmantx said...

"Our children must be removed for negative and inhumane venues not just for safety issues..."

You're making the assumption that all children in those districts are in "negative and inhumane venues".

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Thrasher:

I love your spirit,determination to find a solution, and the fact that your actually trying to come up with one instead of belittling folks. Granny giving you a fist bump. I think ending poverty is a good idea. Like granny used to tell me, if a person can't eat, they will do whatever it takes to survive.

dmd:

Do you think that your insults phase me? You'd better think again. LOL! I know who I am and what I'm capable of and not capable of, so you will never be able to define me. Your little petty condescending remarks don't move me one bit. I guess you think we should be really in awe of you, huh, genius? Please do excuse me if I don't fall down and fawn all over you, but I'm really not impressed by your comments. It does not take a genius to belittle and insult folks. Any illiterate person could do that. Not saying that your illiterate, your more of the round eye of a gluteous maximus type. Nevertheless, basically, your full of dung in my book. BTW, does the D in your name stand for David and the last D Drake? Just curious, only I don't call it curious, I call it being k-cern. Now, if you'll excuse me I have something better to do than go back and forth with you. Besides which, you're boring me with your juvenile tactics.

Field:

What did I tell you back a few months ago about people trying to sabotage your blog? I smelled them coming. Don't pay them no mind, it won't work, and they've truly underestimated you. If they only knew. Your mind is more brillant and deeper then they think and they're really no match for you. BTW, there are even some on here sneaking and snooping around from Council of Conservative Citizens.

I'm signing off now, my goddaughter is taking me to lunch and shopping.

kathy said...

Thrasher, thank you so much for your enthusiam and determination to make a change.
I think there are too many kids living in group homes, in NY anyway, and there are some kids who don't even belong there, but there is no where else for them to go. These kids are growing up in chaos, without any structure or dicipline, and they also are probably subject to sexual and physical abuse. We really need to work on closing those homes and finding other ways to help those kids, they need families or smaller type homes. They need more social workers to monitor what happens to them while they are still young.
Also, kids in poverty who eat at soup kitchens, lots of times, they get garbage for a dessert, they need fruit, vegtables, healthy snacks. Also, these kids get too much white rice, not enough protein. We need to actually get out there and try to provide for the children.
The school system is a mess, it need to be ripped down, new books need to be designed, this all takes a lot of joint effort. We need new kinds of ways to teach, and start when the kids are young, volunteers can make a big difference for a teacher, it helps to break the class size down and give the child individual attention and concern.
A lot of the people who are criminals were once beautiful little babies, they didn't start out that way. The kids need a future, they end up feeling hopeless, and think chaos and violence is normal, cause that is all they know.
Thrasher, again thank you.

History Dude said...

You are crazy if you think that street gangs are only involved with drugs and could not survive if drugs were legalized. They are already involved in prostitution, stealing and gambling. Street gangs are not just about drugs. Some gangs are involved with cock fighting, dog fighting, and fireworks is lucrative in the summer months in Oakland.

Right now, we have people who are running up and down the freeway at night shooting people who are not involved in any kind of gang or ciminal activity. Killing for sport in the 'hood has become like big game hunting without the long plane ride.



Street gangs are not organized crime; they are semi-organized. They don't have the power or the tentacles of the Cosa Nostra, Sicilian Mafia, Russia Mafiya, the Yakuza, of the Triads. The vast majority of their profits come from drugs and they don't have the power to corrupt politicans or businesses.

The 'game hunting' you are referring to is more part of a cultural nihilism.


Thrasher,

Some good ideas! Of course, implementation is another matter. A good place to start is massive populist pressure on the Obama administration and Congress. the only way any progress will be mad is if the public forces progress on our leaders. They will not lead from the top down; we have to lead from the bottom up.

Anonymous said...

blaming parenting, blaming hip hop?

wow violence started with black ppl? really?

It amazes me how people forget about COUNTERINTELPRO, we were once united, we were striving to overcome, until Hoover and this program. We were united until we were infiltrated, if you seek the origins of gang violence try not to forget our history so quickly.

Violence begets violence.
America was founded on violence. Former slaves went to Liberia and committed violence against the natives.

Sometimes I get so frustrated with people's emotional,ignorant responses. Want someone to blame for gang violence study history. So many unarmed black men are shot in this country everyday, no one is doing anything but watching and rationalizing. If the situation was reversed and the police were being shot and killed in the same manner america would be under martial law for a white victim always receives the benefit of the doubt while a black victim must be to blame

uptownsteve said...

Thank you.

Thrasher said...

I am an advocate of micro/macro circles of influence and activity..

On a micro level I argue you and I can make a difference right here..right now..simple things like walking into an urban store and letting ederly folks get in front of the line, getting on bus and letting seniors take yor spot..walking up to a cop telling them you got hier back on the block when they are right and wrong..walking up to a young gangstar and telling spitting some wisdom on tham and freminding them a smile works sometimes...

Telling your pastor to have a return tithe day where he gives back envelopes with money in them..

On a macro level attend all public venues when candidates appear not letting them out of the rom until questions are addressed..

The list is open ..there is work to be done right here..right now

I just got back from corner store I told owner next week 24/7 I am going to stand in front of store with a suit on to let folks know no loitering around that scares off our seniors...

I am going to a suburban store and stand around and let the customers know I am not thereto create fear....

Right here..Right now..I am going to make a difference...

I know on September 1, 2009 we can alter the lives of urban students as they attend school we can escort them from building into another structure all across america..

I know until that can happen I can tell every parent to walk up to principle and tell them you got thier back..

I know until thay day every young Black student can walk up to his teacher and state the following"

I am here tobe the best student in the world can you assist me..right here..right now....

This mere introduction along will shatter the 'soft bigotry of low expectations"...

Let's be BOLD!!!!

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve said...
A white dude scaled the White House fence with a loaded automatic weapon and somehow was talked into custody.
So stop the bull$hit, k?"

You are trying to hard. You have come to your conclusion (it's racism) then go bonkers at anyone who points out facts that call your conclusion in into question.
I have noticed a pattern that when African Americans want to label something racist they take one incident (like this one) and compare it to something that has nothing to do with it (white dude scaled the White House fence) and say it's race that made the difference in the outcomes (black guy dead, white guy apprehended without shots fired) without ever calling into question whether the situation where the guy was shot may, just may, have been one that SEEMED to put the officers life in immediate danger.
I looked into your comparison and found out (not suprising) that you are wrong- the guy DID NOT have a weapon: (http://wjz.com/national/White.House.Arkansas.2.260623.html).
I did find a 2nd incident where a man with a loaded gun shot at the White House, not after getting onto the property, but from accross the street. And he WAS shot by police (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1158744.stm).
So your info is skewed. Not surprising.

Seattle Slim said...

The easy answer is to legalize certain things and make them non-criminal, but it doesn't attack the problem. That doesn't attack the reason someone would want to get high in the first place, and with all due respect it is a cop out.

For example, if a young woman has been sexually abused multiple times, that she then begins to rely on drugs, which in turn lands her in jail after jail for being caught, legalizing it won't make a difference. She'll still have the baggage. We should be attacking the lies, the hurt, the frustration and helping that person to realize they are indeed worthy of self-respect and respect from others.

This is why I find legalization of (insert vice here) to be detrimental and unfair to the people behind the addiction.

Again, these gang members will tell you more often than not, that they are in a gang to fill a void. They may or may not sell drugs. What about the gangs that don't sell drugs, or do much of anything else? What about them?

Thrasher said...

All woman who had abortions prior to Roe V Wade were criminals in USA YET once the law changed they were no longer criminals..

Laws create criminal behavior without laws attached to certain behaviors no crime has been committed..

Therefore we can control crime rates and lawlessness by getting rid of laws and then behaviors which were crimes are no longer crimes..ie. drugs, abortions, etc..

We must stop the growth buisness of creating crimes..

Seattle Slim said...

Anon 4:38 Yes, I am putting the blame on parenting, and until you can tell me that you are privy to certain information like I am to counter it, I am not changing my mind.

Let me tell you something, these gang bangers are sending teens and younger kids to stand outside at elementary schools, junior high schools, and high schools, catching the kids that are disenfranchised from their own families.

Yes, we know about cointelpro, but considering that most of these young kids are just worried about today, they are joining gangs because they are hopeless and nobody gives a damn.

Yes the parents are at fault because they are responsible for protecting their children. It's one thing if the kids are raised right and manage to screw up, it's another thing to leave them to squander in their own juvenile, misguided decision making and hope they turn out alright.

These guys are counting on parents not being there. That is a fact.

You mentioned COINTELPRO. The demise of the black community and ethnic pride and cohesion is the reason for this. Af-ams know the score, they know the stats, but yet still I've met coordinators that cannot find not one male to volunteer time to at risk black boys.

Ignorance is bliss... Until someone gets shot.

Anonymous said...

Anon said, "uptownsteve said...
A white dude scaled the White House fence with a loaded automatic weapon and somehow was talked into custody.
So stop the bull$hit, k?"

You must understand that UTS is not interested in the truth, he is only interested in being right. Hence, no matter how much data you give him that might show his 'error', he will not accept. That, in a nutshell, is why his thinking is so skewed.

Seattle Slim said...

@Thrasher,

But you are speaking about abortion. Abortion is not a crime depending on who you speak to. How can we apply abortion and the 1930s to the present problem we have?

What about the people that don't commit crimes despite the rules? Not everyone is perfect, but why should things be lax for people who probably lacked guidance?

I am telling you, some of these gangs don't do drugs. And when kids are still managing to get high from choking themselves out with belts or sniffing too much aquanet, what is this telling you? Why would someone want to do drugs or engage in the first place? We have to attack that and then we won't have to worry about legalizing.

Thrasher said...

For consideration: Pay for Demand Events

Example:Let's create a price list for behaviors or ex convicts and new potential law breakers...

1. $50.00 for every act of good will to be defined and it requires 2 forms of proof and claim form must be notarized and subject to debits against account if found deed did not take place..

Behaviors Rewarded

1. NO ciminal act in 24 hours $5.00

2. Reward/Informant Tip 10% of crime

3. Prevention acts upto 10% of activity

4. Turn in weapons $100.00 per firearm

5. Turn in drugs 50% of street value

Summary: Instead of paying people for failure ( imprisonment, fines, loss of liberty, voting rights) we reward activities that are non-crimimal ( we recreate entire penal code)..

Summary: This will create a massive labor intensive industry and it will create a series of habits that will be positive and where lots of crimes are unreported we will have lots of good deeds up unreported..

Let's be bold..Right Here..Right Now..

We can create Behavior Banks right now in our hoods and subdivisons..

Thrasher said...

@Seattle,,With regard to abortion prior to Roe v Wade it was a crime in USA..

With regard to those who do not enaged in destructive behavior that is one less erson to worry about we could use that person in the role as a trainer( on how not to embrace crime)

Human Beings like getting high and altering thier state of mind.it is a human condition from Adam eatting an apple ( was it a drug for Adam??) to folks eatting food to others getting excitedover books, prose, prono..etc..

Gang control is easy becuse it allows for behavior modification quicker...

Group behavior is also a human condition

west coast story said...

Seattle Slim understands. I co-sign with most of what he says. Parenting and home life is where the break down starts. This goes for education, anti social behavior, all of it.

west coast story said...

And by the way, parenting is a problem in middle class homes and upper middle class homes (of all colors). The difference is that those parents have the resources to bail out their kids. Working class youth to some extent and poor kids don't have a chance.

Seattle Slim said...

I realize the govt found abortion illegal, but I was referring to the popuulation, particularly women.

Legalization is not the issue and it exasperates the problem. Why wouldn't we want to help people realize drugs are simply a front for something they are missing. That alone will decrease demand.

I disagree. Human beings don't like to get high, they like to feel good. Some of us run, workout, bungee jump, etc. Others feel they need something to make them feel so good it numbs the pain. People who are die hard abusers are not trying to get high really. They are trying to escape.

Anonymous said...

Seattle Slim,"Yes, we know about cointelpro, but considering that most of these young kids are just worried about today, they are joining gangs because they are hopeless and nobody gives a damn."

I agree 100%. There just aren't enough adults in the Black race who ‘care’. Black adults aren’t 'standing in line, ‘waiting’ to ‘serve’ the community and our race, to give selflessly of themselves. There just aren’t enough Blacks who care enough about black children who are dying in the streets.

There aren't enough Blacks with enough passion and commitment who give a damn about the ‘future’ of our race; there aren’t enough Blacks with the desire, will, and commitment; there aren’t enough folks whose ‘hearts’ ache so much that they cannot stand by any longer and watch our race disintegrate. There aren’t enough Black adults who are willing to ‘sacrifice’ themselves for the "good" of our children's future, our community, our race, our nation, and humanity.

More importantly, there just aren’t enough Blacks who LOVE Blacks enough. And Love is the life-giving spirit of the heart and the seat of the will, commitment, motivation and care. How we love each other is a matter of the heart. No need to give a thousand 'reasons' or a thousand 'blames' of whose fault it is. If the horse is stuck in the mud, get it out!

It is critical that ALL Blacks rise to the occasion--STRETCH--to help parent, support, educate, build appropriate levels of self-esteem, self-respect and LOVE for our children as well as each other.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Black America may soon find itself on its deathbed...if we don't.
A+

Seattle Slim said...

Anon, yes! I wish the black community would realize that it's so bad, that we are beyond roundtables and comments. It is so bad we have to mobilize our best trained, hardest working, best intentioned and most caring troops to fight. It is crucial. We must get to the roots!

Hathor said...

The Angry Independent,

I thought having police instead of vigilantism was to have a force which would train and could make those split second decisions. Wouldn't a cop have to react, if a child riding a bicycle, rode in that scenario.

Val said...

"The City of Chicago recently agreed to pay $18 million to the family of LaTanya Haggerty to settle a wrongful death lawsuit, announced city attorneys and lawyers for the family.

Haggerty, a 26-year-old computer analyst, was a passenger in a car that was chased by police on June 4, 1999 (JET, Aug. 2, 1999). She was shot and killed by officer Serena Daniels, who said she shot Haggerty after mistaking a shiny object in Haggerty's hand for a weapon.

Witnesses at the shooting scene said the only object in Haggerty's hand was a cell phone, the Chicago Tribune reported.

In March 2000, the city's Police Board fired Daniels and two other Black officers, Michael Williams and Stafford Wilson, both of whom shot at the car. A fourth officer, Carl Carter, who also is Black, was suspended for one year. He was not fired because he did not fire his gun during the chase or traffic stop, according to Police Board President Demetrius Carney."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_24_99/ai_75248555/

"Six people were wounded Saturday afternoon in a shooting outside a funeral service at a West Side church, Chicago police said.

A 34-year-old man was reported in serious condition at Stroger Hospital, said Officer Kevin Kilmer, a police spokesman.

The five other victims -- a 45-year-old woman, 27-year-old woman, 37-year-old man, 35-year-old man and 27-year-old man -- were all reported in good condition. Kilmer said those five were being treated at area hospitals.

The shooting happened about noon outside the Gospel Truth Life Changing Ministries, 5301 W. Madison St., in the South Austin neighborhood. Kilmer said a group of mourners were gathered outside of a service at the church for a 'self-admitted' gang member."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-funeral-shooting_02aug02,0,4336037.story?obref=obinsite

And what gets me is, why did Obama choose Henry Gates to use as a "teaching moment" about police brutality against the the black community? Especially he coming from Chicago?

I know I know. Just asking.

Sorry Field, you all in Philly and to those in L.A., you're not in a class by yourselves.

Just saying. Just saying.

Anonymous said...

It feels like the killing of Blacks across America is increasing at a higher rate. Guess that's the karma of being Black.

uptownsteve said...

Anonymous sez,

"Uptownsteve isn't interested in truth."

Oh really?

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=2114196&date=19950405

Plantsmantx said...

It "feels" that way, huh?

Anonymous said...

seattle its -COUNTERINTELPRO--you just glazed over it like it means nothing, commenting 80 times does not make your points anymore valid.

gangs have been in america since it was founded like I said a white victim gets the benefit of doubt a black victim is to blame.

where would we be today if Medgar was still alive, Martin, Malcom, so many more I can name. How many white leaders have been assassinated? where would we be today if our leaders had not been killed? if there was no COUNTERINTELPRO?

gangs came from the systematic, planned destruction of our unity. for commenters to ignore the effects of assassinations on our community is complete ignorance that you keep showing and showing with your emotional, eyes wide shut mentalities.

the answer is education, not starting to learn about history when the white man came out of the caves but learning from the beginning. not Edison made electricity but electricity, batteries, engines, planes were used by africans and native americans way before europeans. africans entertainment used animals as their characters, every story had a moral. europeans entertainment is dark, death, murder.

We were on tract when we set up our own towns, cities, mayors, until we overcame faster than rural whites and they burned our cities. Instill pride in a child, teaching them their people were the first in creation and invention is the answer. all this ranting and raving and finger pointing is useless, most people I guess just want to rant. these same people I guess treat their own children, wives, husbands, friends like crap why else would they be so quick to point the finger. I wish intelligent conversations and solutions could be found in discussion not ignorant of the past posers.

We need a revolution , we should own our own businesses, have our own schools, mayors, oh yeah I forgot we DID! during reconstruction!! but we came up too fast because we left rural whites behind and they ganged up and killed, tortured, murdered, and infiltrated.

Seattle Slim said...

Funny, because when I do research I only find CREDIBLE information under COINTELPRO. When I google Counterintelpro, I find tripe. Do you care to advise on what that might be? Oddly enough, I've only ever heard and read about COINTELPRO. Counterintelpro, as you say, is new. Would you be so kind as to explain it?

Seeing as how you feel it necessary to attack the amount of time I post, as if it is any concern of yours, I am not interested in reading the rest of your post or even responding to it.

And no matter how much the number of my posts irritate, your points aren't any more valid either.

Matter of fact, I am really not interested in conversing much with black folks who are still pointing fingers. And? You've BEEN pointing fingers for YEARS. Somebody's child will STILL die tomorrow in some kind of violence. It's time for a change. Whether you like it or not. I am actively engaged in doing my part.

Seattle Slim said...

I will say this much, Anon. You give these children more credit than necessary. You bloody well know most of them can only name Malcolm X and MLK Jr. and even THEN they can BARELY tell you about them. I'd wager that most o them have no clue who Medgar was, and they probably only know about Emmett Till from bootleg t-shirts...

How can they be affected by people who mean little to nothing to them?

Anonymous said...

you proved my point ignorance is bliss had you read my whole statement maybe then you would be commenting with intelligence. I stated education is the answer and you staTed children don't even know who Malcom, MedgAr are, RIGHT EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING IF YOU HAD BOTHERED TO READ INSTEAD OF WANTING TO HEAR YOUR SELF TALK!!!!!

Anonymous said...

sorry I was quoting from a documentary I was watching COUTERINTELPRO, guess you don't know history either if you had to google it

Seattle Slim said...

LOL Anon. Whatever you say. I would say that I'm sorry you feel that way, but seeing as how you are an anonymous entitity on the internet, apologizing to you would be akin to apologizing on the pavement for walking all over it, so I won't be insincere. I don't care what you think. Blessings regardless...

Anonymous said...

if u didn't care u wouldn't keep commenting, so seattle is YOUR real name. I just crave intelligent discussion

Seattle Slim said...

Really? I should've read your comment? Perhaps if you bothered to show pedigree and good breeding, as opposed to being a boorish, churl I would've read the rest. Oh well...

If you want people to read or respect anything you have to say, you might try getting over yourself.

Seriously, chill out and try not to give yourself a heart attack. That would suck for you, wouldn't it? It is not that serious.

I simply choose not to interact with people who cross their boundaries on the internet... Especially seeing as how you wouldn't dare speak to me like that in public. I don't have to entertain you or your temper tantrums, as I have kids of my own and their tantrums are the only ones I am interested in dealing with.

Now bugger off... and be blessed :)

Seattle Slim said...

Anon, just because I choose to toy with you doesn't mean I care. It just means I can be a bitch sometimes... >:) Get it?

I am still laughing at Counterintelpro! You do amuse me, anon. Keep losing your cool ;)

Seattle Slim said...

And if you crave intelligent discussion, you might try knowing the difference between cointelpro and counterintelpro...

Good night ;) I can't be mean for too long. Karmic value goes down...

The Angry Independent said...

Hathor wrote:

I thought having police instead of vigilantism was to have a force which would train and could make those split second decisions. Wouldn't a cop have to react, if a child riding a bicycle, rode in that scenario.

They are trained to make those decisions. However, the training was never seen as a way to eliminate shooting deaths or mistaken identifications 100%. It's unrealistic to expect humans to have a 100% error free record, especially in a situation where a suspect may be acting as if he is armed (aiming an object like a weapon). Again...Hindsight is 20/20. If officers had the capability to be error free or if this were ever a realistic expectation in stressful split second life/death situations, then "suicide by cop" wouldn't be an issue. It's amazing how people expect police officers to have super powers...like x-ray vision, etc.

The training is designed to reduce the risks to officers and the public. It can't eliminate the risk. We have some of the best trained doctors in the World.... but sometimes they lose a patient, despite their best efforts and all their years of medical training. Why? Sometimes there are too many variables that are outside of their control. The same goes for Police. They can't control or predict everything that a suspect is going to do.

And you used a child as a comparison...that's apples to oranges. There was no child involved in this incident. Officers know when to shoot and when not to shoot in terms of watching for innocent bystanders. If the suspect would have exited the car carrying a child... the officers would not have fired (probably would not have even drawn their weapons). The same goes for a situation where there were several children playing in the area.

You are thinking in absolutes... that there should never be a situation where there is a mistake....even when a suspect is attempting to get officers to make the mistake.

In real-life situations, there are too many variables. Each one might call for a different response.

It's a lot easier to see if a suspect is carrying a child from 30 or 40 feet away than it is to see exactly what is clenched in his hand. You really can't compare the two. Police don't have superpowers like x-ray vision...and they don't have the luxury of asking the fine citizens that they are chasing to "hold on a sec.... stop so I can catch up to you...and could you please let me see what you are carrying." It's sort of a silly argument that the anti-police crowd makes in these situations. But it doesn't work that way. Criminals just aren't that accommodating when they are busy trying to kill you or busy figuring out a way to kill you...or when they are trying to fool Police into thinking they have something.

Funny how folks here believe urban terrorists are model citizens who love to cooperate and abide by the law. lol

Hathor said...

The Angry Independent,

Speaking of apples and oranges...

It is amazing how your argument was not about my statement and about what you think I think. You also change my scenario to fit your argument.

These are often split second decisions.

You used this in your comment as if this is an unexpected condition.

To say why I think.

I guess those policeman have a computer in their brain where they take photo, then run the picture and background check in their head in order to know in that split second just how bad that dude is that they are chasing.

20/20 foresight

Anonymous said...

Anon11:25p "We need a revolution , we should own our own businesses, have our own schools, mayors, oh yeah I forgot we DID! during reconstruction!! but we came up too fast because we left rural whites behind and they ganged up and killed, tortured, murdered, and infiltrated."

Anon, I think you validated most of what I said @5:42p. However, I am wondering about the above quote where you state we 'came up too fast for Whites' and they killed and tortured us. It sounds like you are saying we must be careful not to advance too quickly for Whites because they might torture and kill us? Is that what you meant?

Anonymous said...

Uptownsteve....
I read the article you referred to. The other two I had links two were not this one. This is what the article said:
Two tourists tackled Duran and held him down while Secret Service officers ran across the White House's front lawn and jumped a wrought-iron fence to arrest him.
So 1) He was not on White House property and far more importantly 2) two tourists had his restrained. Why would they shoot a guy with two other people restraining him? Not only was the guys disarmed but if the cops shot at him they could have killed the two people holding him down

Furthermore his insanity plea was rejected despite the fact that he "suffered a series of hallucinations during which a multicolored alien being told him of a mist that had been hanging over the White House for 1,000 years" and that morning he had "left his Colorado Springs, Colo., home in a pickup truck Sept. 30 believing that he had been chosen to kill the "mist," which would take over Clinton's mind and lead him to destroy the world..... Results of 17 psychological tests Duran took showed clear evidence of paranoid schizophrenia"

But his insanity plea was rejected. See you big f-ing baby. I was right

YG Stanley said...

Shootings at funerals and vigils is sadly nothing new in Los Angeles County. Late last year i believe 2 people were shot in Westside L.A. while at a vigil commemorating the death of a close friend, killed at the same spot their friend was murdered, that's cold

west coast story said...

I co-sign with YG Stanley. In Oakland, shootings at funerals do occur. One rosary was shot up as people were leaving and when they held the funeral for the same dead shooting victim, they begged the police chief to attend so that participants would be safe.

Shootings at street shrines are more common. I had one of those a few steps from my front door a couple years ago and it was a nightmare that my council rep and the cops let drag on for days, "out of respect for the deceased's family." You can't make this stuff up. The week long terror ended with a riot. It was so awful, Public Works Department personnel were afraid to come out and remove the debris from the shrine. See, in all of this, your worst enemies can be guilt ridden city fathers and mothers. They don't do that anymore. I rub my council rep's nose in that shite every time I have a chance.

There is now someone or some folks who are indiscriminately shooting at anyone in the Richmond area on I-80 and apparently also up in Vallejo. One suspect was described as black. The people who are being shot are described by the cops as being in the wrong place at the wrong time and do not appear to have any connection to gangs or criminal activity. This morning the Richmond police chief described the shooters as people who don't care who they shoot and are pleased if they shoot a friend of a friend of their intended target. The police also made a point of saying that young teens are recruited by friends, relatives AND PARENTS to do this kind of shooting.

I was on Amtrak going through Richmond one night and someone shot up the train. Thankfully, the windows are bullet proof.

I have less patience with this sort of thing as each day goes by. Don't trot out your rotten childhood to justify being a street terrorist. I really don't want to hear about it.

grinder said...

Behaviors Rewarded

1. NO ciminal act in 24 hours $5.00


Paying people not to commit crimes is also known as "protection money" or "exortion." My answer is not only no, but HELL NO.

Anonymous said...

"Paying people not to commit crimes is also known as "protection money" or "exortion." My answer is not only no, but HELL NO."

grinder, who is doing this?

Anonymous said...

I was thinking of Rosewood(if I'm remembering the name correctly) and there was also a city in Canada, whites came in and burned the cities to the ground. there are more examples of all black cities burned during Reconstruction, we came up too fast that's why Jim Crow was implemented after Reconstruction

I was stating this for all the people ignorant of american history that now blame various factors for gang violence. If you don't know the root causes, the suggested solutions sound so ignorant to me. How can so many people not know american history in america? I know because they don't teach it in school, it's hidden, no knowledge-no pride

Anonymous said...

"we came up too fast that's why Jim Crow was implemented after Reconstruction"

There you go again with Blacks coming up too fast. How fast should we go today to ensure that Jim Crow or our businesses and schools won't be burned down by the white man? Would you please check that out because it makes no sense to start building only to piss the Whites off and lose everything.

Sharon from WI said...

It's not just being poor or black or black and poor; rural black poverty exposes that for a myth. It can't just be the drugs because rural areas have plenty of drugs.<<<

I once lived in Carbondale, Illinois while working for a newspaper there. One assignment I had was an interview with one of the area's sheriffs (we covered a 12-county region in Southern Illinois).

During the course of the interview, I mentioned that I was shocked and dismayed that someone had just stolen a brand new Weber grill that I had just brought; it was not chained because I simply didn't think anyone would bother it. After all, this is a small town.

The sheriff then cautioned me to disabuse myself of the notion that crime only happens in large cities. One example he then cited was a kid who killed his entire family.

The case had recently been in the news at the time. And the kid lived in a town of less than 500 people.

Anonymous said...

"The case had recently been in the news at the time. And the kid lived in a town of less than 500 people."

Those small towns have more than their share of horror stories. I lived in a small town in Oklahoma for a few years, where a mother was killed by her 13 year old son. I bet a lot of small towns, have such horror stories of family members killing each other.

Anyway, I am glad to be out of that town and out of Okla. It's not talked about much, but Okla. is one of the sickest and most wretched states in America, esp. for Blacks, and Native Indians.

So don't plan any vacations there unless you have a thing for giant mosquitoes, hairy taurantulas, and tornadoes. LOL

Angie-in-Japan said...

Just curious BUT...

What about restructuring the educational system in the States? I wonder what would happen if ALL kids had the same access to quality education? Would there be as many problems in the inner cities or rural areas where kids are often underestimated, overlooked...and LEFT BEHIND?

I'm not sure how it works now, but when I was in the States, public schools received a large portion of funds from local property taxes. The higher the taxes in a particular neighborhood, the better the facilities at the school catering to that particular neighborhood. This, in turn, allowed for the type of money needed to attract teachers with higher qualifications. Of course, this would give students at these facilities an advantage over students from schools with less money. Yeah....we don't like to admit it but this only creates a society of those who have better education; which means they get better jobs; which gives them the opportunity to become more powerful and make more money...which ultimately keeps them in a position to maintain control, perpetuating the negative effects of that cycle to their own advantage, while limiting the successes of other children.

What would America become IF:

.....property taxes were distributed evenly amongst the public schools regardless of who went where?

.....if students where able to CHOOSE the high school of their choice, then test to enter it?

......school officials and teachers were not allowed to CHOOSE where they wanted to work but were rotated to different schools in their general areas every 3-5 years?

.....teachers were all paid the same standard salary to start off, with promotions and higher wages dependent on the level to which they can encourage their students to excel academically?


And "NO!!"...before some theorist gets all bent out of shape, this isn't about "socialism." It's just an attempt to create a much fairer playing field in regards to quality education. Discrimination in US housing often leads to these neighborhoods in which certain groups of children are blessed with certain advantages, while others are left somewhat disadvantaged.

Could educational opportunities that lead to better life opportunities be the answer?

--------------------------

Oh, and by the way, Frank....Kobe Bryant was named after Kobe Beef (pronounced "ko-bay"). His parents fell in love with this brand of Japanese beef during their visit to Japan years back. I know, as Kobe's father, (a coach in the pro Japanese basketball league) is a friend. Check it out when you have time.

http://www.kobe-beef.com/Why-Kobe-Beef/default.aspx
...

Anonymous said...

Field ,look at the numbers 300 a year from ten major cities USA
3000 yearly x 20 = 60,000 . Same # American lost trying to take Hanoi.

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