I need your help with this one.
I just got home from a cook out (if you can call it that) at the home of some very well to do friends.(Well, former friends if they read this blog) This dude and his wife have done very well for themselves. They are both lawyers, and they have both had very successful legal careers here in Philly. They have rewarded themselves with a very large and upscale home in the Huntingdon Valley area, which is a suburb just North of the city. (Those of you familiar with this area will know what I am talking about, and will probably have a better appreciation for how nice this house is)
So anyway, they invited the field over for a holiday cookout, and I reluctantly accepted. I remember that last time I visited their home. It was almost two years ago, and it was a house warming of sorts. I remember leaving early because I did not particularly like the cast of characters attending the party. In my humble opinion, they were house Negroes all, who got off more on talking about themselves than just having a good time. But what the hell, it's a holiday weekend, and I didn't have any other plans. I figured I could get some free grub, and hopefully the mix of my man's guests would be different from the last time.
The house is nice, straight out of cribs. Theater room, gym, swimming pool, the whole nine. I went in and said hi to the hosts. "Field nice of you to come, I didn't think you were going to make it." Yeah neither did I. Come on, I have some people I want you to meet." And so it begins, one house Negro after another, everyone more fake than the last. I am finally standing by their pool, eating some finger foods (I think it's goat cheese and some type of fried mushrooms or some shit), and this brother comes over to make small talk. "Don't get too close to that water bro, you know we can't swim." There is a white couple within earshot, I know they heard. In fact, I think he wanted them to hear. But as white people are so good at doing; they give nothing away. They want to wait and see what my reaction will be to my house Negro friends lame attempt to be funny. "Actually, I can swim, and when you say we, do you mean black people?" "Yeah you know the stereo type?" I do, but I feel like being an asshole, and so I pretend I don't. "No, I never heard that." "Field is from Jamaica, so I am sure swimming is not a problem for him." Saved by the host. He walks over, and formally introduces me to wanna be funny man and the white couple. He wants to make more small talk, but the field is ready to roll, because the food isn't all that, and the company is even worse.
I can't wait to get home to do some blogging. I am looking around the house, and the cook-out, is in full swing. More people are piling in, and the driveway, and the street lining the house is looking like a European car show. I am thinking about my blog, and the people who always comment. People like rykirah, Angie, hathor, Michael Fisher, jose, Francis, christian prog., max julian, and Chris ---Well, maybe not Chris; he is a Princeton guy, so he would probably fit right in---But I am thinking what would they think if they saw me in this big ass house surrounded by all these house Negroes? The field Negro ain't looking so field Negroish now is he.
But then I started thinking about something another blogger named Cobb, told me when we met a few months ago: He said that it's a good thing when black people get wealth, it's the American way. And isn't that what we are all striving for? Why knock black folks who get theirs and are clocking dollars? Isn't that we all should be doing? Instead of knocking them, shouldn't we be embracing them, and utilizing their wealth and influence to advance the cause?
So as I am driving away(yes I rolled) I am thinking that maybe it's me. Just because I didn't necessarily like these folks, it doesn't make them all house Negroes. These people could be all doing great things for our people and doing more than their fair share of giving back. But still, they sure seemed awful fake to me, and they were all trying just a little too hard.
I am back at my computer now, and I am asking for your help with this one. Is it me, or are these Negroes fake? I am thinking maybe it's a little bit of both.
62 comments:
FN,
My niece had a similar situation a couple of weeks ago. A 'line sister' was getting married in OUR hometown (she's from across the country, and she and her fiance settled on our town because it was in the middle of the country),yet didn't invite HER until 3 days before the wedding.
My mother was like, ' Hell no, don't go.'
I was like, ' You should go. It's being held in one of the top 5 places in the city to have a wedding, and since she's spending $250 a person - go'.
I told her to only give her 75 dollars for a wedding present since it's so late, though. She went for the experience of knowing what a wedding in a place like that actually looked like, and to see old classmates.
If the food was better, I bet you would have put up with the company :)
Free food AND a swimming pool = rikyrah there, no matter who the guestlist is..LOL
I can always amuse myself with people watching wherever I am.
Now, why are they House Negroes? Just because they have money? OR would they still be House Negroes without the money?
Maybe this isn't your thing, but since I'm a real HGTV fan, and love nearly all things home-related, I would have gone to see the home, and see if they had made any changes. But, that's just me.
You didn't cut the ties, FN. Always have to be strategic. Maybe someday, something will come up, and you might need something from this Brother. It was no skin off of your nose to go to his home.
I'm not a burning bridges kind of person. I know folks that are, but it's not just my style.
Silly Black folk I can take way more than Silly White folk. Silly Black folk, you can always go 'Field Negro' if things get out of control. Part of the fun in situations like that, is to see IF it will get out of control.
Sometimes, it just depends upon the day. Somedays, you can suffer fools....somedays you can't.
Yes, we should be utizlizing their wealth & influence to advance the cause. And no, making money isn't a bad thing. But I think we as a people need to steer away from it as being the ultimate dream. Let's steer away from the big ass house in the burbs and the fancy cars because that isn't doing anything to help our struggling people.
With all that comes responsibility: what are they doing for the community (obviously not the uppity one their in now), how are they educating/mentoring younger black children, etc...
Its not a problem if you're wealthy but still helping/influencing/mentoring. But if you're wealthy and stuck your ass up in the burbs without so much of a glance at the brotha/sista struggling next to you, then you need your ass whooped.
Field:
It all depends on the conversation you heard during the gig.
That joke about "Blacks having no buoyancy" got Al Campanis canned from his MLB management gig with the LA Dodgers, especially after Ted Koppel gave him three opportunities to take his foot out of his mouth - when Campanis said there were no Blacks in MLB management gigs for the same reason there were no Black swimmers on the Olympic teams. Your friend is too used to being in rooms hearing the obligatory "Two Blacks in a Bar" joke and made his up just to help the white guests fit in.
Go with your instincts on how you felt. No one's hating on your friends for achieving what is known as the "American Dream". We all want nice house to live in; good schools for our children, a nice neighborhood for them to grow up in, all the trimmings.
But what our parents taught us, especially if your parents were from the Deep South (like mine were) or Jamaica (as yours were), you were always taught that with success came responsibility, and the responsibility to kick that door of opportunity you went through, open for someone else coming behind you. I have friends here in DC (Upper Marlboro, Mitchellville and Davidsonville, Maryland)which composes the wealthy Black county of Prince George's, and some of them remember where they came from and try to give back; others are saying "F--- them negroes; I got mine..."
The ones who remember where they came from and tries to help = FIELD NEGRO.
The ones who got out and help the system keep the rest of us beat down = HOUSE NEGRO.
And if you're getting "House Negro" vibes from your friends, pay attention to it and don't ignore it, because that has the darndest way of coming back and biting you in the ass.
"The ones who remember where they came from and tries to help = FIELD NEGRO.
The ones who got out and help the system keep the rest of us beat down = HOUSE NEGRO."
That pretty much sums up how I feel. Still, this brother---from what I know---does do some good things in the city. But some of his guests...I swear. And rikyrah, from what I could tell, the food didn't seem all that bad. It was just the finger foods that sucked. I should have said that. Nope, I think it was the vibe I got. Like christian prog. said it, just didn't feel right. And sometimes I can bullshit and play along, but I just wasn't feeling like it today.
I understand that you can't burn bridges, and sometimes you have to play the network role. But must we have our game faces on ALL the time?
Never second guess your gut when dealing with a social climbing House Negro.
As far as they're concerned, the only room at the top of their mountain is reserved for whites. Your only role is to help position them to accommodate these white folks. Period.
Fuck 'em!
The ones who remember where they came from and tries to help = FIELD NEGRO.
The ones who got out and help the system keep the rest of us beat down = HOUSE NEGRO.
This is a cut-to-the-chase explanation that's on the money, and I'll definitely file it away.
I understand that you can't burn bridges, and sometimes you have to play the network role. But must we have our game faces on ALL the time?
Nope, and if you couldn't just do the silent observor thing, and, you felt your tongue was going to get away from you, then you did the right thing. Everyone knows what place they are at mentally. The people watching mode, at the edge of a pool has served me well many a day.
You did the right thing, FN for yourself today. Cut yourself some slack.
Maybe the next time, you'll come to ' healthily debate'.
Hah! Well this post is germane since I 'psychoanalyzed' you a little bit this weekend without intending to - I was explaining what blogs were to a friend, partly by giving examples of different blogs. I said, "Then there is the Field Negro, he seems to be a lawyer or something like that, so he has to associate with a lot of what might be House Negroes, and he also observes the activities of some House Negroes who are in the government. He feels alienated among some of these people and gets irritated at them, the way I do with the insincerity I see in more than a few academics."
I'm not mad at you for going. To the contrary, you were doing what you felt was right by accepting an invitation from a seemingly innocuous couple. Everyone, including yours truly, gets into those situations where it might seem like a conflict of interest but it really isn't.
As far as HNs vs. FNs, I think it's important to note that poverty and being Black / Latino should not be correlated. With that said, from what I'm reading, these people tried their hardest to appease their "masters," and that's unacceptable. There's a part of you that should always have a game face and have a sense of professionalism, but some people just overdo it with their platitudes and self-deprecation, to the point where you wonder what their agenda really is.
Your summarization of FN vs HN was good, and I like it. Let's just remember that we're not "using them"; that makes it seem like they weren't part of us to begin with. Many of the well-to-do Black folk we see came from areas of struggle.
You did the right thing by staying true to your ideals and leaving.
Peace ...
Is it me, or are these Negroes fake?
I believe it's you.
I'm generally a lurker here since I'm a conservative and totally different from those who sign this blog.But I could not resist this evening.
My husband, who proudly refers to himself as a "field negro", has a tape by Malcolm X which breaks down the difference between the two. I am going to listen to that tape again to refresh my memory.
However, my first thought is, why are people "phony" simply because they are successful and living large?
Of course a stranger is going to make small talk until they get to know you. That dude probably viewed you as the snob since you got away from him so quickly.
But to answer your question...I think it's you---not them. Yes, that goes against the grain, but hey. You asked.
Field, I wasn't there, so I can't tell you if these people were all fake Clarence Thomas nock-offs. I'm glad there are some wealthy Blacks in the United States and elsewhere, but wealth doesn't necessarily mean conspicuous consumption.
I'm still thinking of that Denzel Washington "Man on Fire" movie that I saw yesterday, where the viewing audience is supposed to feel sorry for these super-rich Mexicans who drive through the poorest areas in their enormous Black Mercedes Benzes and then they're suprised when their children become the targets of kidnap rings.
I wouldn't have felt so offended by the movie if Denzel Washington has given his life to save a Mexican-looking kid, instead of a little white girl with blue eyes and blonde hair. Aren't white people already full of themselves enough without the movies telling them that Blacks can redeem themselves by committing suicide in an effort to save white people?
About conspicuous consumption, here's something I've learned in my four years in Brazil: If you look like you have a lot of money, you're in danger for your life. Stow that fancy gear and wear what others wear, drive what others drive, and you'll be a lot better off! (I ride the bus and I haven't been carjacked yet!) When I see someone wearing a $10,000.00 Rolex in the midst of poverty, it makes me so mad that I want to rob the MF myself! It's just stupid, even from the point of view of their own self-preservation!
I hope some part of this answers some part of your question! If not, read:
"Gays, White Women, Controversy and Acceptance in the Black Family," some part of which might be relevant to some part of your question, although probably not. :)
Love your blog, but perhaps it may have been some of both? As in, partially you and partially the house guests. I don't have enough info to make a call here. What were the topics of conversation? Were many of the other guests well acquainted with each other? I think it's a mistake to equate someone's personal demeanor with automatic "house negro" status. Perhaps many of the other black guests were not originally from black neighborhoods, but that does not make them House Negroes.
That said, if you felt uncomfortable or wanted a day off from networking and fakery, you were well within your rights to take off.
As I've been a big fan of your site for awhile now, I trust you know what you're talking about it.
There's nothing like instinct--to hold your breath when go under water, to jerk your hand away from heat, etc. Trust those instincts...especially when it comes to those whose identities are wrapped in conspicuous consumption.
Malik
The Matrix For Real
"Of course a stranger is going to make small talk until they get to know you. That dude probably viewed you as the snob since you got away from him so quickly."
len, that's a fair point, and it's why I said that it could have been me as well. Maybe i did come off as a jerk. But he certainly contributed to my demeanor with his tasteless ass joke.
Someone asked for a background. Well most of the people there didn't necessarily know each other. We all knew the hosts and that was it. There might have been about thirty or so people when I was there (more people were coming when I left), and I recognized and knew maybe a third of the people. Most of the people there seemed succesful in their own right. (I am judging from their cars,dress,etc.
I like what jose said about poverty not being equated to being black, and I agree. So in keeping with that, shouldn't we act like we have been there befroe or we belong? My old Jamaican grandmother used to call it: "Neva se cum se" In other words, because you have never seen or had it before, you come to it like it's such a big freaking deal. Black folks always treat money like it's a big freaking deal. And you have to wonder if it clouds our judgement in other areas. (See all of our public officials getting pinched for being on the take. See how the CBC acts when someone throws money at them)
But the more I think about it, the more I think I made the right move. I wouldn't want the hosts thinking I am an asshole (which I can be) and ruining their party. I think leaving early was good for me and them as well.
BTW, I did apologize to the hosts for my early departure, and I lied about having another important engagement. They understood, so there was no harm no foul where that was concerned.
FN,
Your instincts were probably right. If I had heard that joke it would have thoroughly pissed me off. Knowing, at least in my generation, that lack of facilities or the inadequate colored facilities kept a lot of blacks from being able to swim, play tennis, roller rink skate, ice skate or other activities as a child you wanted to do.
I think most people can tell a fake Negro or should I say a Negro with an affectation. It really does not have anything to do with money. It has to do with how the view there own identity.
I think the guy who told the joke must have been impressed with the swimming pool.
Oh those fake ass Negroes are everywhere these days, in the works place, on television, in the movies, in the malls, even in my damn family. fake ass Negroes can now go to Harvard and other select institutions. This really fucks em up. There is nothing worse than going to one of these fake ass parties with fake house Negroes and white folks, most of them are completely fucked up. My strategy was to work the room good (about 1 hour) eat some of that bull shit food, usually there is no music or vide, so brother could easily duck out the back door and roll, so park where your ass can get out.
09 03 07
Well FN:
This is an interesting thread. You and them is the answer. You felt something in your gut that shut you down from feeling the vibe at this party. The folk there may have sensed it or not, but why was the mushroom with goat cheese finger food nasty? It sounds realllllllly good to me. Then again, I am a Californian through and through and fusion food is what we love out here. My Mother did a reception for my Sisters recital a few years back and there were caviar stuffed mushrooms, which were excellent. Are you perhaps a bit biased about foods and Blackness?
Going with your instinct is always a good decision. If you weren't in the mood then you should have left. Now, fake negroes, they don't bother me a bit. House negroes are just field negroes with masks. I don't feel obligated to play a game. I think the majority of people float in field status and put on house for company. That's natural. It's only your obligation to maintain whatever keeps YOU real.
Another aspect to this is that some folks aren't good in social situations. People continuously flub that arena. Many don't feel comfortable being FN's in front of strangers. Insecurities cause folks to do and say some weird stuff. I wouldn't take it all that seriously. I always find the most fun observing HN's after a few drinks. The masks come waaaaay off! That's the source of primo blogging fodder.
X
It's wonderful to see black folks enjoy material comforts. There are plenty of black folk who realize, as I do, that there is more than enough opportunity and wealth in this country to go around.
On the other hand, there are others that, if you look beyond the degrees, the white BFFs, homes, etc.. you find a lot of dysfunctional shit going on, including creditors blowing up the work and home phone and mail.
These are the grimey peeps that, as a black person, you must keep in front of you at all times.
Again I say: Trust your instincts to help you make the distinction.
I don't know about all the black folks at that party, but being insulted by one "black man", who wanted to show the whites there that he was willing "to say what they couldn't say" would be enough to make me leave. To me, whether your host is a house negro would depend on whether or not he pulled that "black man" who insulted you to one side and upbraided him in a more vigorous fashion after you left.
Hello my name is Dave and I am a cracker.
You know Way....Uh Field you forgot to ask the people at this party a direct question, first if they don't answer it, you're spot on in your assessment, secondly if they do answer the question "do you support the policies of George W. Bush and this administration?" and answer yes, then you can go tell them to get fucked and enjoy the carnival and the pony rides going around in circles. Oh, I haven't had my meds.
Seriously if they don't answer a direct question then you most definitely have a house Negro on your hands.
Frankly I haven't had in my experience a republican answer a direct question yet.
Fake is fake, I went to my nephews wedding years back, and the thought of the Stepford Wives came to mind, and the Stepford children. My g-d they all looked alike and conservative.
But yea the standard test would have helped you assess the situation right off, asking the question of loyalty to Bush.
-=t=-
FN:
Wealth is one thing, but power is another.
What so many House Negroes don't realize is that having power is more important than having wealth.
We could all learn from the Jews. They realized that the only way to help themselves was to gain power -control of the media, a nation, the legal system, etc.
It seems to me that House Negroes just want is the money. With the money alone there's no way they can help other blacks.
I too am a recovering wannnabe-used-to-hang-around-with-House Negro and I feel your pain, but they deserve more pity than disgust.
Buddhadharma
"We could all learn from the Jews. They realized that the only way to help themselves was to gain power -control of the media, a nation, the legal system, etc."
I second that!
"..but why was the mushroom with goat cheese finger food nasty? It sounds realllllllly good to me. "
Spoken like a true Californian :)
Now folks, I have to ask you; please be careful who you tell about this blog, because if my hosts find out about it, I am toast! There is now way I can lie
and tell them that this post wasn't about them :)
And yes, it's not all about money,it's about power and being able to pass down wealth from generation to generation.
I have a friend with a daugther who attends a very elite prep school here in Philly.And he is always complaining about having to struggle to pay her tuition, while all of her classmates have their tuitions paid out of trust funds set up by their grand and great grand parents etc. Now that's how you use wealth. You don't blow it in a generation, you pass it on.
"Don't get too close to that water bro, you know we can't swim." There is a white couple within earshot, I know they heard.
What a complete lack of self-respect. What's next Katrina jokes?
I don't know, Field. I am very wary of house negro's as well, but just being well off and snobby isn't enough evidence for me.
If you want to prevent your well-off friends and their colleagues from going down the jigging path, you should have stayed at that party, and led by example. You should have stayed to the end and offered your assistance. In other words, until there is no doubt these folks have joined the light-side, you should exhaust yourself in forging connections and bonds.
What makes them House Negroes? It's not the money and the success....
It's what they are doing with it... that's the issue. And their attitude in general. I hate snotty, snobby wealthy folks... no matter what color they are. (That Lou Rawls tune "Groovy People" says it all for me.... yes I referenced Lou Rawls, lol).
I usually avoid these situations all together by just staying out of the House. I typically stay at home... (which = the Field). I rarely get invited into the House anyway... I'm simply not in that tax bracket yet. The people who I work with are just as poor as I am. But I know as I move up, the probability that I will be asked to visit will increase.
But when I am faced with these situations, I end up with the same gut feeling that FN had here. I typically don't stay long at such get togethers. I am naturally anti-social (to a degree) so I don't know if it's my anti-social tendencies kicking in or if it's my aversion to being in the House.
I tend to have these experiences more with White folk.... There are not too many House negroes who I associate with. None who have invited me to their homes anyway.
What I usually do is fake it.... at least for a few minutes. When that wears off...(and it does wear off after a few) then I have to leave.
Playing sick works, lol.
But here's a question...
Is there really a way for someone to be in the House and in the Field at the same time... or to be dedicated to the causes of the Field after they have been promoted to the House?
Or are folks just left with 2 distinct choices? (Either you are in the House or you are in the Fields....).
Also,
What income constitutes "House"?
$50,000, $60,000, $75,000, $85,000, $100,000 or more?
(I guess a lot would depend on Geography.... so let's say for the sake of discussion that I am talking about average living expenses and the average real estate market...meaning I am excluding places like Florida, New York City, California...and Las Vegas).
Or is "House" more a state of mind than a certain socio-economic level?
I don't think i'll ever get to the House... In fact, I think I am destined to stay in the Fields for the rest of my life (and dammit... it's Hot out here). I must have really f'd up in a past life. I often ask God WTF did I do, lol?
Anyway... I laughed my a** off when I read this post... Because it reminded me so much of ME. People often paint me as anti-social (and that's partially true... I am not that much of a People person... I wish I was.. but i'm not). But that has more to do with snobby stuck up attitudes that many Americans have developed ....with all of their wealth and status. It is annoying to me. And being a Black man just adds to the problem. I often get stereotyped by ignorant folks... Black, White and otherwise.
The divide in America is increasingly along the lines of The House and The Field (economics) rather than Black and White. "Classism" is slowly supplanting "racism". And with Classism... the perpetrators will come in all colors. It's becoming harder to figure out who is authentic and who isn't or if someone (perhaps a Black person) is just trying to say Hello, or if they are insulting you.
The sh*t is getting complicated. And it makes me defensive all the time... almost paranoid....and in a constant state of pissivity (mad as hell all the time).
The confusion goes both ways too... I am often accused of being from the House because I don't use Ebonics...and I hate Rap music. But my bank account is Field Certified.
That's why I just stay home, lol.
I should follow my own advice more often as well.
I can't weigh in on the field negro/house negro debate, being white, but I think when money is the raison d'etre, it creates situations like this--everybody trying to out-impress everybody else. In my opinion, you did the right thing by leaving. Who needs it?
Ha ha, this reminds me so much of the Black Student Association in college, a bunch of house negroes and faux-field negroes (house negroes who like wear dashikis and quote Angela Davis but wouldn't be caught dead talking to their cousin Ray-ray in the South Bronx).
Field, I say go with your gut b/c chances are its right.
It's all in the mind, basically. I consider thugs, most preachers, nihilistic rappers, drug dealers, etc. has House Negroes; men and women who get up every morning and go to work to feed their kids as Field Negroes. I consider folks who tell other black folks that they "talk white" as Field Negroes.
Just because someone has a nice house, material things, etc. doesn't make them a HN just as keeping it real doesn't make one a FN. I think it boils down to self. Self-aggrandizing fools who really arent about anything, or claim to be or derive strength or popularity from this cult of personality--that's a HN to me. That's another layer that pushes many black pols and professionals into the category even though theymight not be right wing stooges like Clarence Thomas or Booker Rising, etc.
"That's another layer that pushes many black pols and professionals into the category even though theymight not be right wing stooges like Clarence Thomas or Booker Rising, etc. "
@ Chris
Bro. Chris I have never consider Booker rising a right wing stooges. I disagree with a lot of what she says and some of the commentators are straight up HN's but not shay.
@ Field
Also Field you didnt give us enough info to jugde if the folks hosting the party were HN's or not. The black guy who told the joke he is a weasel however.
Christian said:
I have friends here in DC (Upper Marlboro, Mitchellville and Davidsonville, Maryland)which composes the wealthy Black county of Prince George's, and some of them remember where they came from and try to give back; others are saying "F--- them negroes; I got mine..."
The ones who remember where they came from and tries to help = FIELD NEGRO.
The ones who got out and help the system keep the rest of us beat down = HOUSE NEGRO.
We are almost 2 generation since the civil rights movement. Many middle class and upperclass blacks never lived in a "black community" and that number increases ever year.
What do they have to give back to some place they never came from? You seem to assume all blacks came from "the hood" but that is hardly the case. If this was 1977, you might have a point, but in 2007...?
Field:
"I can't weigh in on the field negro/house negro debate, being white, but I think when money is the raison d'etre, it creates situations like this--everybody trying to out-impress everybody else"
Anon said the above (not me)
However, he/she has a point. White folks act the same way. Haven't you ever been to a party with predominately white people? Are you saying they don't act like what you describe, higher class of white people are very materialistic and braggadocios (in certain ways...they drop words and queues...to let you know their class/status) black people do this but I think as a group in this country we are just starting to get it...because for many centuries we were all forced to be pretty much the same. That is over and we are normalizing.
If you are of Jamaican roots, don't tell me there are not strong class differences in Jamaica. The top tier still tend to be the Jamaican Scots who are often as British as the British and proud of it (in their way).
Just because they're rich doesn't make them House Negroes, like you said it may be a little bit of both. They probably did have to kiss a little ass to get all that money but what rich person hasn't had to kiss some ass? That just seems to be the sort of thing that comes along with being rich.
"But here's a question...
Is there really a way for someone to be in the House and in the Field at the same time... or to be dedicated to the causes of the Field after they have been promoted to the House?
Or are folks just left with 2 distinct choices? (Either you are in the House or you are in the Fields....).
Also,
What income constitutes "House"?
$50,000, $60,000, $75,000, $85,000, $100,000 or more?"
AI, you have to read my field Negro 101 post. No, it's not about how much money you have or don't have. You can be filthy rich and be a field Negro, and you can be dirt po and be a HN. It's a styate of mind as far as I am concerend.
Chris makes some good points about that. You really can't peg a HN or FN simply by their income bracket etc.
And AI, unlike you, I happen to be pretty good in social situations, and usually I do alroight at social gatherings. But this time....I don't know, maybe it was the brotha with the swim joke, and a couple of people that were trying a little too hard for my taste.
And yes, I know white folks have their class-consciousness folks as well; and I have been to more than a few social gatherings where I am the only spot of ink in the room. But I know what to expect in those situations, I expect more from my own folks.
And anon,you are right, there are class differences in Jamaica and other West Indian Islands as well. A West Indian HN is no diffeent than a North American HN. I will always call them out too. Including the ones in my own family.
But here's a question...
Is there really a way for someone to be in the House and in the Field at the same time... or to be dedicated to the causes of the Field after they have been promoted to the House?
Or are folks just left with 2 distinct choices? (Either you are in the House or you are in the Fields....).
Actually, Field Negro himself came up with a solution to this..
FN...did you forget about...
THE PATIO NEGRO?
LOL
Now, come on, FN, you created it the term, and it was on spot.
Maybe this was more complicated than you made it out to be....
Could there have been a group of Patio Negroes mixed in there?
Also,
What income constitutes "House"?
$50,000, $60,000, $75,000, $85,000, $100,000 or more?
(I guess a lot would depend on Geography.... so let's say for the sake of discussion that I am talking about average living expenses and the average real estate market...meaning I am excluding places like Florida, New York City, California...and Las Vegas).
Or is "House" more a state of mind than a certain socio-economic level?
I believe it's a state of mind. Broke college student Clarence Thomas was in that 'House' state of mind even back then, when he didn't have a pot to piss in.
Definitely a state of mind.
I think a certain income places you on the PATIO, then it takes your state of mind to take you into the HOUSE.
I think all people need to do more than pursue money. People need to pursue integrity and wisdom and security. Money is a tool that makes security in particular attainable.
It sounds like a nice day out. Be glad to have been invited to someones home, its generally an honor. Or do you think they had an ulterior motive?
Ahhh yesss. I forgot all about the Patio... LOL. Thanks Rikyrah.
That was a stroke of genius by FN.
And I think it's a State of Mind also... But to play devils advocate that's how I wanted to present the question.
However, I do believe that a certain income level makes you predisposed to a certain outlook that tends to lead you into the House state of mind. That's why well-to-do folks always have to be concerned about staying grounded (at least those who care about not becoming arrogant snobs).
To anonymous'
I wish you would pick some other pseudonym so that we could tell you apart. It is not hard to do.
So anonymous who said this
What do they have to give back to some place they never came from? You seem to assume all blacks came from "the hood" but that is hardly the case. If this was 1977, you might have a point, but in 2007...?
Did you ever consider "the hood" as community or ancestry, not as some derogatory place as you implied. You may not have been born in "the hood," but how many generations are you out. There are very few blacks that are the descendants of the wealthy 18th century mulatto slave owners or black merchants.
FN,
I think our mayor asked the frat boy to stay in DC. He was putting too much of a strain on resources. I think he came here 22 times during his campaign. Couldn't he have landed at the military airbase in the burbs, where they liked him.
Nothing wrong with wealth. Especially if you generated it via your own business and employ black folk.
Though I can't stand it if Negroes start hamming it up for the benefit of present white folks.
You are a lot more polite than I. I might have pushed that Negro in the pool.
Yeah, I woulda rolled, too.
"That is over and we are normalizing".
Normalizing? Whhether or not it's normalizing depends on what you think "normal" is. It's like some young black folks who find traditional black values appealing and figure they must be political conservatives because they buy into the Republican/media framing of what political conservatism is. It's just that they were either not born or are too young to remember the time when those virtues weren't dishonestly forced into a right-wing frame. I'm old enough to have a different frame of reference regarding what's normal.
Brotha Field,
I have mixed feelings about this post. I'm going to comment now. But I may indeed swing back through here later after having a chance to think about this a littl more.
The reason why I have issue with the post is because it seems as if you are annoyed by these people because they have money. It seems that you are assuming that they are uppity. Now, here's the catch... A brotha from the hood may think the same of you because of all the little perks and/or behaviors that one has from being a college educated law professional.
In my family, I find it so hard to fit in. When I'm hanging around some of my more uneducated family members, I often feel out of place. And I think they think of me as an intelectual snob.
But when I'm around my folks that have money, I feel a little strange as well. I think they think of me as a broke black, who wishes I had what they have.
It's almost like I'm judging them, while they are judging me. I think that a lot of blacks are guilty of this. This is yet another item/issue to divide us.
Here's the facts... I feel much more comfortable with college educated, well-traveled, well-read blacks that are one generation away from the hood. Much like your girl... **wink** I'm a pretty educated black woman. But I am literally a parent away from the hood. My dad didn't even graduate from high school. Both my mama and daddy were raised in shot gun houses in 5th Ward.
Field, I have a confession... I was almost at a party like yours this weekend. Nice house, nice cars, black folks with money... Black folks that own businesses... Black folks that own houses that are over 3000 sqf... But these folks were all my family.
And when I tell you that all of us are a generation away from5th Ward, Texas. And a couple of us are a generation away from the cottonfields of Louisiana. So, I think that's what keeps us grounded.
I love to be around black folks that have succeeded, but still have a down way about themselves.
Yes, I know this was a long post. But I'm thinking as I write. .
BTW: I think it was cute that you were thinking of us when you were at the party. You must have been really bored. LOL
Angie
P.S.
Excuse the spelling errors. I haven't been sleep yet. I've been up working on my school stuff. **sigh**
Hathor:
Thanks for clarifying my post to anonymous - I didn't grow up in "da hood" as he/she/it described it. I've always lived in pretty diverse neighborhoods out in California, but the normalcy of those neighborhoods were that they were all full of working-class people who put family first, and looked out for their neighbor.
That's what I was talking about. You can live in a gated community and still be a "Field Negro"; you can live in Anacostia section of DC and be the biggest House Negro there is. Like Rikyrah said up thread, Clarence Thomas had the House Negro mentality when he didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. He rode in on the coattails of Affirmative Action all the way - and denies it by passing laws to eviscerate it.
He demonstrates that House Negro is a state of mind and if one has it, it matters not where they live; they're still going to be House Negroes, looking down their noses at everyone else.
Field's friends obviously know he's a Field Negro - maybe they invited him to the party to counter the House Negro telling the pool joke, in the hopes that Field would call him out on his "House Negrosity". We'll probably never know - but Field went with his instinct, made a polite excuse to his hosts, and got the hell out of there.
I'm touched he was thinking about us, because that means Field gives to us, and we gave back to him in terms of support. That's what real friends do. Most times, I know when I'm being a Field Negress (which is every single day) and as an active member in DC politics, you meet all kinds. But they already know I'm a Field Negress, and you know what? I get more respect from white people because they know they're not going to hear BS from me.
The House Negro should realize that when he's being a House Negro, the white person has less respect for him than he does for a plain-speaking, no-holds barred Field Negro like Chuck D, or any of us on who post here.
Even though it's scary to keep it real, white people with knowledge prefer the keepin' it real, except when keepin' it real goes wrong.
You know what happens after that...;-)
Hathor:
I'm the one who talked about the hood? How many generations out. 2. My father moved out when he was in Junior High, maybe elementary.
I also didn't mean it as deorgatory.
So is it Donald Trump's duty touplift poor white scotch-Irish hillbillies because his grandfather or great grahdfather was one? There are still a lot of poor backward Guido Italians on Coney Island...I don't see Robert Dinero or Al Pacino lifting them up out of that "you know who I'm wifff" nonesense...
I'm not saying people should not help, but I don't believe it is a duty, for example, as it is for a man to care for his children.
You can have tons of money and still be a Field Negro just as you can be all types of poor and still be a House Negro. It's not a money thing, it's an attitude thing. You can even give back to the community and be a House Negro. They are the ones that give just so that their friends know they give and will pat them on their little House Negro heads.
this brother comes over to make small talk. "Don't get too close to that water bro, you know we can't swim."
I'm not saying people should not help, but I don't believe it is a duty, for example, as it is for a man to care for his children.
Sometimes one duty is to be silent.
Anon said:
We are almost 2 generation since the civil rights movement. Many middle class and upperclass blacks never lived in a "black community" and that number increases ever year.
What do they have to give back to some place they never came from? You seem to assume all blacks came from "the hood" but that is hardly the case. If this was 1977, you might have a point, but in 2007...?
7:51 PM
@ anon 7:51pm - What type of ignorant stuff is that to say?! That's the problem now. You help YOUR PEOPLE, regardless if you are from those parts or not. These are the same people that feel like they shouldn't care about what's going on in Darfur. They are still of African decent so you should care. I couldn't read anymore comments because I had to comment on that. I sure somebody ripped you a new asshole for that shit.
FN - I'm from Philly and know & work with people who live out there in Huntington Valley. I am of field negro mentality too, so I know I wouldn't have felt comfortable there, especially with the remark that that asshole made.(Even though I can't swim, but so what!)Besides goat cheese stinks.
The way I see it, if it walks, talks & act like a duck, then you know...
The House Negro should realize that when he's being a House Negro, the white person has less respect for him than he does for a plain-speaking, no-holds barred Field Negro like Chuck D, or any of us on who post here.
I have written about my closest Sistafriend, who is a FN from her head to her toes....and she says this all the time. She says that they use the House N's to get rid of the FN's, and then turn on the House ones for being so lowdown as to help them.
It is obvious that the man who remark is an ignorant fool and a House N. as for the other folks at the party , the verdict is still out on them.
I must say that I have a problem with our people equating being black or keeping it real to being poor or living in the hood. While going to school, speaking proper english or moving into a wealthy neighborhood is deemed, acting white. Isn't the idea of having money is the freedom to be able to live anywhere you want, and to use your wealth to help others in need?
Hope I'm not repeating something that's been said ad nauseum but just want to remind that there is another stereotype, the one that goes rich people are fake and avoid "dirt," and poor people are authentic and savour the dirt.
Temperment-wise I abhor the fake and veneer. However it can be just another way of interacting with people. Is there a way of code-switching to get to authentic interaction with rich folk? I have no idea, I guess only those folk know for sure.
Old boy who made that pool remark sounds like HE was the one out of place.
I love hors d'ouevres, but if there is a pool, what was on the grill???
I also think some of your aversion to the wine & cheese set might be based on your insecurity around "rich" folk (upper middle class).
Why must we have the HOUSE/FIELD dichotomy?
What about those of us who just ran off from the plantation?
note: about the community thing.
I used to believe in the "community" until I actually lived there. My community is where I currently live (which includes everyone). I'm not from the hood. Contrary to the popular hardscrabble narrative, we are NOT all from the hood (what about rural folks). Not being from the "hood" does NOT make you less black/house material. Trick Daddy is from the hood (Overtown?), yet he is a coon of the worst variety.
As for the pan-Africanism mentioned above: I'm going to need for Africans (usually west Af) to cut the disparagement of American Blacks before I give another thought to their problems.
She says that they use the House N's to get rid of the FN's, and then turn on the House ones for being so lowdown as to help them.
Rikyrah, if you and your sista friend are in DC during CBC Weekend, I must buy both of you a drink. She is spot on target, but how sick is it that whites use the House Negro to get rid of the Field Negroes, and then turn on the House Negro who did their dirty work?
"I also think some of your aversion to the wine & cheese set might be based on your insecurity around "rich" folk (upper middle class). "
lajane, nothing could be farther from the truth--- My background says otherwise. I will leave it at that;)
I think you are guilty of sterotyping now. We have all acknowledged that being wealthy is not synonymous with being a HN and vice versa.
As far as the Africans go, I hear that complaint from Af. Americans all the time, but I don't get that vibe. Maybe it's because I approach them (Africnas) from a different perspective. I don't think they sense that, "I am better than you" demeanor from me.
lajane galt,
I see you have twisted my meaning too. There may be more than one person here that may live in a neighborhood which includes everyone. I do, and in this city of neighborhoods, your hood is your identity, just listen to David Brenner. "The hood" is an urban word and it is still used in the context of where you live without any negative connotation.
You know your pseudonym says so much.
Field,
Every once in awhile it is good to feel the cool minty breeze, sip the sugar-sweet lemonade, and taste the refreshing appetizers afforded those in the House.
You were invited into the House for a reason and it ain't just because you were within earshot at your usual position in the Field.
It is what it is and I would presume from your writing (and your guilt at having left the party prematurely) that you have more in common with those HN's than you'll ever want to admit.
Discomfort aside, remember to keep it real, my brother. Keep it real!
plez...
OH YEAH... CONGRATS on knocking it out of the park with your Black Bloggers Award! I'm so proud to have you on my BlogRoll! *smile*
I don't do too well at events like this, no matter what race they are. It's not that folks can't have nice stuff or that I'm uncomfortable around folks with money. I'm not at all. I've been around rich folks my whole life. It's just that I get to thinking about my grandma who worked as a maid serving food to rich folks who didn't give a damn about her. I get to thinking about how many people are homeless and could use somewhere, anywhere clean and decent to lay their heads. I'm not a fan of ostentatious displays of wealth and even if I'm paid one day, you will not see me trying to floss. We leave it all here when we die so I'd rather spend my time making sure someone else has food instead of making sure I have a damn theatre in my house. True, folks can do whatever they want with their money, but do we really need all the crap we think we do?
Damn...this is some serious conversation in the works. It's this verse that keeps me reading (lightly posting).
Here's one thought that disturbs me, the "you must lift up YOUR people/stay true to YOUR people."
The reason? While the struggles and tribulations that must be dealt with can be generalized on a large scale, it is rare that said generalizations begin to approach the specifics of said issue at hand. Case in point - why should anyone expect George W. Bush to be the spokesperson for whites, Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton to be for blacks or Osama Bin Laden to speak for all muslims? Well, two of those three aren't.
If you want to play politics, then do it. The world may appear nicer, but it just means a knife in the back instead of a fist to the face. If you want to lift someone up, then do that. But when you want to lift them up based on the color of their skin, are you really any better than the ones who would ignore another based on the color of theirs?
Field, I am inspired by your writing. And to this community, I am inspired by your conversation. Congrats on the award. Much love.
liz, you are too much of a nice person. Your convictions obviously run deep. Thus, your problem with being around phonies.
cool will...,thanks for the dap. I am feeling your writing style too. I don't necessarily agree with everything you said about uplifting ones own race first, but I understand where you were coming from.
Keep checking in, all views are welcome.
We have to go to these events where the possibility of House and Field will be enmass, just to keep our chops honed. If we are away from them for too long, we are destined to become them. Besides they do have some skills...No one covers for us better than they do when we are lookin' at W's with that look of repugnant stankin' Cr...OOh ya'll...see thats when field or house jumps in coverin' so we don't all get arrsted, or throwed out, or beat down (read dramatically.."Oh pleez Massa..he don't know (no)...he just a ole' dumb......(u fill in da blanxs)
LOL at cush :)
"..Cr...OOh ya'll...see thats when field or house jumps in coverin' so we don't all get arrsted, or throwed out, or beat down (read dramatically.."Oh pleez Massa..he don't know (no)...he just a ole' dumb......(u fill in da blanxs)"
Now that was some funny shit :0)
I think it has something to do with the conditioning and brainwashing of Black law students to be lawyers. Many start off in school perhaps with the idea that they will learn the master's tool to take down the master's house, but in the process of learning the master's tools, adopt it for themselves. Also, there were those who always were sell outs and I think higher education institutions are able to screen and hand pick for these students. What better way to oppress people, then to get us to hate ourselves and use us against one another? So in many arguments by blacks for the benefit of diversity in lawschool is that law firms need to recognize that we will bring them more money. That argument is basically that we are useful to be pimped out to get more money. A distortion of our power. Other arguments that I hear is that black students need to befriend white students so that one day when they are heads of firms, they will see black young adults and give them jobs, yet again assuming that we are not the ones that will be doing the hiring. I was at a black law students conference two years ago, and one of the students there was a white guy who came for a legal competition paired with another black person. All of these black students were flocking to him, handing them his resume because his whiteness rendered him powerful enough to give jobs. The white guy found it funny that people were coming up to him trying to hustle a job. I was at an internship this summer with a black girl, who couldn't wait to say to me how I shouldn't name my kid a "ghetto" name or else that would ruin their chances of getting a job (from a white person) and she couldn't wait to say something like that in ear shot of two supervisors, and then I proceeded to argue with her about trying to assimilate to appease white people is too much of a sacrifice and she is assuming that will be the only type of employer our children will have.
That being said...I think your radar was on point. People are so trapped in trying to please white people, they do not even know that they are doing it.
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