Friday, April 11, 2008

Guns, religion, and a vote for Hillary.


I honestly was not going to blog about the "O" man until after the debates next Tuesday, but apparently the "O" man went and put his foot in his mouth while talking to a bunch of fundraisers. So here we go again. Just when it seemed like white A-merry-cans were ready to forget his preacher, he goes out and tell a bunch of fat cat fundraisers that small town A-merry-cans are bitter, and ( I am paraprhasing here) that they are preoccupied with things like guns and religion. Well, forget paraphrasing, here is the quote: (Which, by the way, happens to be a true statement)



“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
“And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”



Well Obamaholics, I don't know what to tell you this time, except that your boy is making it very tough for himself. Mrs. Field (a confirmed Obamaholic) was watching CNN tonight and I couldn't tell if she was madder at the anchor for continually playing the audio or the "O" man for being dumb enough to put himself in that position. The irony is that it was a Huf Post reporter who broke the story. ----Apparently this reporter never leaves home without their trusty tape recorder.




Poor "O" man, I understand his frustrations with small town Pennsylvanians and small town A-merry-ca. But "O'"man it's not bitterness why some of them will never vote for your black ass, it's something else. And failing to call out the elephant in the room is fine. But if you are going to do that, you should just not say anything at all. People are questioning your political skills for a reason. A real politician would not have said what you did in public. I don't care if those big wigs in California were giving you a million a pop. Just shut up. Don't give the Ice Queen and Mr. Morton bulletin board material. Now they are all over you for this latest little misstep, and once again, you gave the Ice Queen new life.




Now some clown on CNN is saying that this is a watershed moment for your campaign and that on a scale from 1-10 this is an 11 in terms of damage. Well I don't think it's quite that bad, but it ain't good. I had you losing Pennsylvania by about five percentage points, which would have been a victory for you. Now, I don't know, I am thinking you lose by at least 13 percentage points, and maybe more. This could have bad implications for you at the convention as well. Now all of the Ice Queen's Super Delegates are going to be telling the other Super Delegates to switch to the dark side, and your little California comments might just have given them a reason to do that.




So Obamaholics, I sure hope your boy survives this latest mess he put himself in. But if he doesn't, today will go down as "Black Friday" for everybody who ever jumped on the good ship "O".



90 comments:

Anonymous said...

I saw his response to this statement and it was spot on. I don't watch CNN because they gave us Bush twice and the Iraq war. People are bitter, no jobs, losing their homes, no food - hell, what is there to be happy about and lets not forget $4 gasoline

rikyrah said...

I think Obama caught a semi-break, if you want to call it that. Not forseeing this, CNN and MSNBC have already done up programming ready for the entire night. Only thing after Lou Dobbs was the first hour of Anderson 360, and thank goodness Roland Martin was on. CNN and MSNBC had solid programming on tonight - no talking heads. The only place it’s probably been playing non-stop is Fox, which, well, is no surprise.

rikyrah said...

His full transcript:


OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it’s fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre…they’re misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to ‘white working-class don’t wanna work — don’t wanna vote for the black guy.’ That’s…there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it’s sort of a race thing.

Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is so we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — to close tax loopholes, uh you know uh roll back the tax cuts for the top 1%, Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to uh middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide healthcare for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing.



Just trying to put the remarks IN CONTEXT.

Of course trying to point out that Obama is the poorest of the candidates. The one who, a few short years ago, paid more for student loans than his mortgage, but HE's the elitist.

Whatever.

field negro said...

rikyrah, I agree that when put in its proper context, the comments are not as bad as they would first seem for his campaign. But as you know, we live in a sound bite world.

FIX NEWS will be all over this for the next few days.

anon 12:20 AM, I agree with you. And the "O" man would be preaching to the choir if he were only talking to us. But he has to convince some of those small town folks to vote for him too, or else he is toast.

Cali Hussein Tejano said...

Field, tell Mrs. there is nothing to worry about. Hillary is using GOP talking points from that prick on CNN and Grover Norquist to push her side of the story. A real Democrat doesn't do that.

Did you catch the O-man's rebuttal? It was awesome. He not only handled himself well, but I think he left Hillary and McCain looking like fools. He called them out. I'm not kidding. Obama called out McCain on his response to the foreclosure crisis and Hillary's vote on the bankruptcy bill while taking money from financial service companies.

Fucking brilliant!

SingaporeSwim said...

Field said:
A real politician would not have said what you [sbo] did in public.
real politician = oxymoron
I'd take sbo's straight shooting any day over the barf of a so-called real politician.

SingaporeSwim said...

and what of this numbnuttery?
On Hardball, Matthews and Shuster critiqued Obama's "weird" beverage selection at Indiana diner

field negro said...

You got me there: "real politician" is an oxymoron. Maybe I should have said a slick politician :)

SingaporeSwim said...

that's more like it field.

Deb said...

Field,

Speaking of HuffPo and real, er I mean slick politicians - found these two posts interesting (funny as hell really!):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-bach/obamas-big-tent-campaign_b_95966.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-bach/big-tent-re-opens-obama-c_b_96181.html

SingaporeSwim said...

well, tavis will now land a gig on one of the Cable News Networks as a talking head.

SingaporeSwim said...

is this the point where tavis turns coat to get more exposure and recognition?
he should bow down to sbo for the opportunity.

Given the history of the racial scorn heaped on them, blacks should be the absolute last ones to impose a racial code of conduct on other blacks. Unfortunately, in their absolute dogmatic, unyielding, Obama mania, they have turned what in any other season would be a healthy give and take reasoned dialogue and even debate on political issues into finger pointing, name calling, bashing, and yes as Smiley unhappily said "hate" toward any black who disagrees that Obama is the second coming of Dr. King.
Hang in There Tavis Smiley, Don't let the Black Obama Thought Police Run You Out

heartsandflowers said...

Field, Field, Field, it's all good. Remember Hillary has been projected to win PA and her huge lead has shrunk to nothing really. She has the whole party machine behind her. Obama is keeping it real which is a nice change of pace. He's taking a few chances and getting 'aggressive' which is supposedly what people said they want. There may be some blundering but at least it's sincere. I heard about the CNN flap but mostly I've been hearing about Bill lying about Hillary mis-speaking and him getting called on it. Obama is unlikely to publicly state that some people won't vote for him due to racial prejudice but people know that is certainly a possibility. I think he is trying to reach people on a deep level and speak to the heart of the matter. it's great that he compared the previous administrations' lack of assistance because honestly people need to wake up! Those talking points and knee jerk hot button issues affected votes but those people that went along with it see how it all blew up in their faces. It sucks how bad things are but it's been a reckoning. Whether Obama ultimately wins or not he has really done a great service to the nation by getting people to examine themselves and the state of the nation. It's been great that people feel threatened - as long as they work through their fear and get to source of the issues at hand. There's not going to be a utopia...but hopefully we can stem the decline of the nation. Historically every superpower falls and I was wondering if this was it for us in the US. I still have my copy of "Getting Out" just in case. This is a very painful, difficult 'birth' for us right now, but we still have the potential to come into our own collectively.

Kat said...

I don't understand this...what Obama said was spot on. It's true. Why are people harping on the guy for saying the truth. People have lost their jobs, are they suppose to be smiling when their houses are foreclosed and living under a bridge? I wouldn't be. Hell yes, I would be bitter. And yes, people tend to take their frustations out on immigrants, gays, and anybody else not like them. What was the immigration bill really all about then? The Borg Queen is basically grasping at straws now.

shonufded said...

Field:
"Well Obamaholics, I don't know what to tell you this time, except that your boy is making it very tough for himself."

It's called winning by losing; a strategy designed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

(Not mine; I borrowed it. It seems to fit the situation.)

marci said...

have not been following obama in any great depth for a while i have been following the elections in zimbabwe on the mother continent... (sidebar is correct field... that man needs to go now)
obama is telling the public the truth about themselves... and damn them if these small towners don't want to hear it...
he is making folks take a long hard look at themselves..
i think it is a very good strategy.. change starts from within.. he wants to change people's mindsets...
the truth hurts at first but it is soon soothed by the balm of enlightenment...

Bob said...

I'm not convinced it's all that damaging. But Barack needs to be reminded that he can't be all things to all people. & McCain's on the edge of the radar now, & he has a tendency to blurt out some really bizarre stuff. Give it time.

Anonymous said...

Hey Field -- Jeffrey Toobin and Jack Caffrey tore Hillary and McCain a new one for attacking Obama on this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G8dRMofHNs

shonufded said...

@kat:
"Why are people harping on the guy [Obama] for saying the truth.'

If I've learned anything during the previous several weeks, its that the "truth fairy" is not like the "tooth fairy".

The tooth fairy pays big for what comes out of your mouth; the truth fairy pays big by busting you in the mouth.

Christopher said...

“And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

You want to know why Barack Obama is ahead in the popular vote and the delegate count?

Because he tells Americans the truth. Not sugar coated, mindless drivel, but the truth.

Americans can handle the truth.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]But "O'"man it's not bitterness why some of them will never vote for your black ass, it's something else. And failing to call out the elephant in the room is fine[/quote]

Field-Negro:

Your boy "O" has no problem "calling out ELEPHANTS in the room". His problem is that he is not able to call out red DONKEYS. For me the fact that he stated in his "Race Speech" that "Welfare policies have hurt the Black family" but left them as an "orphan bastard baby" with regards to WHO gave these hurtful policies to us is a bigger problem for me as a Black man.

All he needed to do was to turn around on stage and tell his "Verizon Wireless" following that THEY are the one's who brought the Black community these policies and thus the harm.

Mr Obama has no problem in throwing grenades at his ideological enemies. I am sure that in the next few days when he cleans up the poop from this story he will get more SPECIFIC on the Conservatives that he was talking about.

As for WHO brought us the Welfare - well we will have to wait until a President Obama attempts to CUT that which HE SAYS is hurting the Black family for the birth parents to claim their bastard orphan and fight against him.

The question is - Will Mr. Obama - FOR ONCE - stand up to his EXTREME LEFT WING BASE and tell them what they NEED TO HEAR rather than what they WANT TO HEAR?

I betting - No he won't. Especially not before the election.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Because he tells Americans the truth. Not sugar coated, mindless drivel, but the truth.[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think that it is the SUGAR in the Koolaide that has you buzzing and bugging Dude.

His VERSION of "the truth" maybe. Absolute truth - HARDLY.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]MICHELLE OBAMA. KIM JONG II?
WHAT DO BLACK FOLKS HAVE TO DO TO GET A LITTLE RESPECT AROUND HERE?

ONLY AN ASSHOLE LIKE GLEN BECK WOULD ENTERTAIN SOME BULLSHIT LIKE THIS.

Thanks Justin.[/quote]

Field-Negro:

Why is it that Ms. Obama - a supposedly conscious Black woman choose to create a "Friends and Family" plan at the NATIONAL LEVEL rather than focusing on a group of people who are WILLING MEMBERS?

It is interesting that one rarely hears the word 'PROPERTY RIGHTS' in the messages of quasi-socialists like the Obama's are. The concept of THE PIE has no mention of OWNERSHIP of the slice that you have duly earned. If a rich person STEALS his money - I will be the first one in line seeking the government to confiscate their ill gotten gains. At the same time if a person has put innovation into the market and has money streaming to his bank account why does he deserve to have his pockets picked?

Worst of all, as a Black woman who talks about EDUCATION, if indeed the Black community stands to BENEFIT from increased education where is the calls for this same group to PRIORITIZE the money that it has in its own pockets toward this effort? Why shouldn't it be the conscious decision of a PEOPLE that expresses the fruit that is ultimately grown rather than have a new POLICY to have external resources RAINED DOWN UPON THEM as if this is going to IMPROVE them rather than make them MORE DEPENDENT but never having learned how to generate money in the market but instead in the LEGISLATURE out of someone else's pocket?

It seems that INDEED there is an ASSHOLE here but it is NOT Glenn Beck.

MC Hammer said...

Well, I guess now we've all seen Obama's strong, on-point, non-ad hominem comeback -- delivered within mere hours and pointedly aimed at McCain (with a minor role for Clinton).

Can we now all agree that Field Negro is one of the jitteriest brothers in the AA blogosphere? Do what Bill said: just chill out.

field negro said...

Con....feedback, I think your elephant trunk is showing :)

"The concept of THE PIE has no mention of OWNERSHIP of the slice that you have duly earned. If a rich person STEALS his money - I will be the first one in line seeking the government to confiscate their ill gotten gains. At the same time if a person has put innovation into the market and has money streaming to his bank account why does he deserve to have his pockets picked?"

If by innovation you mean circumventing the laws of the country, or making his money on the backs of my taxes (eg. corporate welfare)Yes his damn pockets should be picked.

"..Field Negro is one of the jitteriest brothers in the AA blogosphere"

"Jjitteriest"? Nope, the only thing in life that makes me jittery is "Saved By The Bell" reruns ;)

Constructive Feedback said...

Weekly Review Of Field-Negro's leftwing propaganda side bar:

[quote]Oh wait, they already tore that one down. This one is in A-merry-ca! [/quote]
Oh wait - the OTHER wall was designed by a nation to KEEP THEIR PEOPLE IN. The government wanted to force them to stay and enjoy the glories of SOCIALISM!

To translate it for you - remember Michele Obama's concept of the "ONE PIE"? This is what East Germany was built upon. The only problem is that just like with a "10 man bike" - when people start realizing that they can kick their feet up on the handlebars and the bike will still move - everything collapses when no one pedals. More to the point when you are pedaling your azz off but the guy behind you who is CHILL'IN receives the same propulsion FORWARD you begin to HEAD FOR THE BORDER to a more "fair" place to live.

The wall was a CONTAINER INWARD.

The border fence on the south is a BARRIER to keep people who seek to escape INTO America from doing so unless they have DOCUMENTATION to cross legally.

Do you always pervert history and facts so?

Artifact #2
[quote]
"Until we take back our lives from a corporate media that devalues true fellowship, real community where people barbecue, garden and hang out on lawn and patios with each other, have a cold one and tell our own stories, we will never get anywhere."[/quote]

Typical LEFTIST dog squeeze.

* Is there anyone FORCING you to watch television?
* With the Internet and so many opportunities for anyone with a camera to make their own content - why is anyone talking about the "Corporate Media"?

(Side Note - Hey Field-Negro - did you realize that the Evil Sith Rupert Murdock of - "Faux News" fame OWNS MySpace via his "News Corporation" death star?
He sends his super computers out each night to scan every radical MySpace page and alters the words and the music so that it changes from radical defiance over toward SUPPORT for Right Wing/Conservative causes.)

By the way Google owns "Blogger.com" as well. Aren't YOU being hosted by CORPORATE MEDIA?

In some strange, perverted way - for the quote that attracted you above to come TRUE would be for YOU to CHANGE YOUR WAYS.....not the CORPORATIONS that you hate so much.

What FOOLISHNESS!! Who is preventing you from sitting on your porch in Philly and talking to your neighbors? Don'y you have free WiFi there now? (Oh I forgot, never mind) You could take your laptop on your porch and show some young bucks how to channel their anger into their own blog page.

In a city where you have to WATCH who you let into your house lest they come back when you are not HOME it is NOT the "corporate media" that is the biggest threat to you.

(I wonder what ever happened to the drug adict who threw a rock through our window at 61st and Jefferson and stole my mom's color television set more than 25 years ago? The night before the crime he rang our door bell asking ME if I wanted to buy a pool table - the table just happened to belong to his brother who he was staying with. I being a little kid invited him into our living room while I ran back and asked my mom if we could buy a pool table. He saw the flashing light from the television screen in the front bedroom and he paid us a visit later on after everyone had cleared the house.

Instead of chasing after the windmills of corporate media - you would do better to look closer to HOME as to what your problems are.)

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]If by innovation you mean circumventing the laws of the country, or making his money on the backs of my taxes (eg. corporate welfare)Yes his damn pockets should be picked.[/quote]

Ho hum.

1) Circumventing the laws? PROSECUTE THEM THEN!!! That is IF this is the case in the first place

2) Making his mony on the backs of YOUR taxes?
Wow. I have no doubt that YOU pay a lot of taxes. I mean if you protested and STOPPED paying - Exxon Mobil would have to cease operations for they would not have enough funds to continue operations.

It is interesting that this evil oil company is damned for making $35 billion in profits while no one mentions that they paid $29 BILLION in taxes. This amount is MORE FEDERAL taxes paid than the bottom 50% of the tax paying public.

It appears that your argument FAILS the "Proportionality Test".

Besides as I consider other people who CLAIM that they pay too many taxes and get too few services back they drive for LOWER national taxes and instead seek to keep their money LOCAL - paying taxes to their CITY where they can most benefit rather than to the FEDS.

Why is it that so many LEFTISTS confound this rational response? The answer is - THEY seek the INCOME REDISTRIBUTIVE effects of taxation. To cut the federal taxes and depend on their own economic output and keep these resources LOCAL would insure that all hopes for political POWER are lost.

Just imagine if the City of Philadelphia under its new mayor became CONSCIOUS! They begain to focus on LOCAL GDP. They begin to see that they need to be an attractive place to do business. They began to attrack the CONSUMERS OF LABOR back to town because they saw how important is it to have these consumers in their city limits to offer opporutnity to the citizens of Philadelphia.

Imagine how Philly would blossom IF this was the overriding ethos rather than being HOSTILE to business?

Anonymous said...

Why is no other candidate able to understand at least part of the anguish of the small town Pennystuckian? Obama has stated more of the truth of existence here in Whitest Withesylvania than any other.. McSame's inane 'more jobs is besser' and Hillary's kowtowing to the DC Village tell us reams about their priorities.


Mold

heynow said...

yup, when you're cornered, just talk louder. silly man how
when his voice rises up in pitch, like a 12 year old girl! worse, sounds like a TYPCIAL politico in that clip! and the clincher is ending with his Dean like moment, "I know exaclty what's going on! "I know what's going on in Pennslyvannia! I know what's going on in Indianna! I know what's going on in Illinois! Yeeeeahhhh!!! .
UNELECTABLE.
man, slick willy must be in awe, how obama tried to change up on the "cling to religion" to "take refuge in religion".
UNELECTABLE. Sowwey, thanks for playing. ya see folks, thinking you smart and you have the right answers, don't make it neccessarlity so.

Kellybelle said...

I cringed a little when I saw the headline. Not because I disagreed with what he was saying, but because I knew it was going to be spun in such a way as to make him look like he didn't understand the needs of working class whites in PA. I've only got so much patience. I don't mind political vitriol, but I don't know if I can stand it for this extended primary and the general election.

hennasplace said...

Hi Field:

I what I found interesting was your friend Mr. Morton's statement that Barack was out of touch with the average American. It is a historical fact that when economic hard times occur there is a rise in hate crimes. At the heart of classism, racism, and sexism is how people are going to fare economically with getting jobs. Every group I know is interested how they are going to do financially. The color in dispute is green.

I remember one case I read in college in a hate crimes course, an unemployed white guy was angry and bitter, and blamed jews for his problems. He broke into the home of Schmidt family as he believed that they were Jewish, but never noticed the Christmas tree or the smell of the ham while roasting in the oven and killed the family. They were actually practicing Quakers, but details, details.

I think Obama should fine tune his message about the bitterness and frustrations the working class as it goes across ethnic and racial lines, and he could really have united force. There is a reason why people use divide and conquer tactics. There are those out there who does not want to really see a united front unless someone is invading the country. However, I do see the racism and xenophobia and the first thing that comes out of the person's mouth is they take our jobs. Tell me that it's not about economic power.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Obama has stated more of the truth of existence here in Whitest Withesylvania than any other.. McSame's inane 'more jobs is besser' and Hillary's kowtowing to the DC Village tell us reams about their priorities[/quote]

Mold:

Since you mentioned "jobs"....with Mr. Obama frequently attacking corporations (even though his bank register has a record amount of contributions from these same entities - above and beyond anything that the individual contributors have sent to him) I must ask you - WHAT TRACK RECORD can you point to that indicates that Mr. Obama will be a "job creating wonderkind"?

Does the fact that the vast majority of the new manufacturing plants in this country built in the past 20 years are in SunBelt states that are cool to Mr. Obama's style of economics instead of the Northern, union dominated states where he and his machine are welcomed?

When one moves beyond the "koolaide induced stupor" and seriously inspects the situation there are some large holes in certain people's AUDACITY OF HOPE! The truth is that it is going to take TAX BREAKS and GOVERNMENT MONEY to attract CONSUMERS OF LABOR into these same states that they were repulsed from.

Now I just got finished debating Field-Negro about CORPORATE WELFARE. It is clear that the ONLY way that the "depression cities" in the North are going to be able to build back their base of labor is to write the very welfare checks that Field-Negro despises so........OR they can change their policies that are hostile to corporations that have a choice to operate their plants in states where THEY are not the bad guy and are appreciated.

John B. said...

As a card-carrying member of the "White Working Class," altho I'm not a gun-nut OR religious, I just cringed when I read & heard this statement by Obama. Could he sound any more condescending?

To his credit the O-man went on the offensive right away and lobbed it right back at Grumpy Old Man & the Ice Queen (her trying to come off like Rosie the Riveter is just rich!). Good save, Barack, but you shouldn't have gotten yourself into this position to start with.

Would somebody give this guy a clue!

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]However, I do see the racism and xenophobia and the first thing that comes out of the person's mouth is they take our jobs. Tell me that it's not about economic power.[/quote]

Hennasplace:

One of the most vulnerable points in the Obama campaign has to do with the Black laborer who has been displaced by Illegal Aliens. While this has been morphed into a RACIAL conflict by those who are forced to make it the case so that the bottom line issue of ILLEGAL ENTRY into the country is not addressed head on.

If Obama is elected president his "expansionary tone" in which he evades the problem is not going to stand as the economic realities kick in. Obama claims that more federal investment in job creation and skills education is going to be the panacea for the job situation. The bottom line FACT of the matter is that there are a given number of job slots that indeed shrink and grow over time while there is a more rapidly increasing number of bodies seeking these jobs.

Obama's weakness from my perspective as one looking at the interests of the Black community (and we can all try to PRETEND that it is possible to dilute selfish racial interests all we want to - but it AIN'T gonna happen) is that he is never going to take the immigration issue head on - CLOSING THE BORDER and allowing everyone who is in here already to settle into a job. In doing so he would have to go against his Hispanic base on the left. I have stated many times - Obama ONLY "attacks toward the RIGHT!!". If you believe that he is ever going to choose to defend the interests of "the people" by shifting TO THE RIGHT and harming another group of "little guys" you are sadly mistaken.

The only option that he (and you - Hennasplace) has it to create this big "Come by yah" circle of obfuscation that is never going to hold!!

You say UNITY? INDEED - classic Marxist strategy is to have the WORKERS to UNIFY against the CAPITALIST CLASS. They can span their fractious interests and unite against their common enemy.

BUT WAIT.........I thought that Mr. Obama needed these capitalists to CREATE JOBS in the Northern Depression Cities????

Do you see that absent slowing the rate of growth of the American labor force the "Audacity of Hope" is just "some damned nerve to think this way"?

This man needs to learn that he can't please everyone and that EVERYONE includes his LEFT WING base.

hennasplace said...

Constructive Feedback:

It is not about immigration, it's more about what corporations do. It's to blame the person standing next to you because you can easily lash at him or her. However, we do not pay attention what corporations do to cause the divide planned or unplanned. During the industrial revolution when companies in their attempt to prevent the organizations of unions, they hired black laborers to replace the white labors while they strike. Of course, the black laborers were payed at a lower scale. That caused more of a division between the black and white worker class. Of course, if the thought had occurred to them, they could have banned together for a united front against the company owners as both group had shared interests. It is the crab in the barrel mentality that some people count on. We are so busy being concerned with one group is doing, that we barely noticed how the Federal Reserve bailed out Bear Sterns. Guess what our tax dollars are paying for the bail out because JP Morgan Chase did not want to bear of the fiduciary responsibility, yet the government does not what to deal with the sub-prime scandal as people lose their homes through unethical practices.

I am going to apologize before hand to another who of Latino ascent, but Constructive you can blame Pedro all you want, but the reality is he paying for social security taxes while illegal immigrants contribute $9Bn to the fund and it's keeping SS afloat. My I place my blame where it should be with the government and their complicity to side with corporations. No one talks about corporate welfare.

I have seen traffic disputes where the people involved, one driver would "you coconut why don't you go back Trinidad," and the argument is between two black people, one happened to be born outside of the US, and other born here. There is a problem and economics is at the root, and I do not tell me that it is not. Barack is not off base, and it's interesting how working class people buy into the idea of values and patriotism, yet completed forget their economic interests. They constantly vote against their interests and become more interested in gay marriage, I which I couldn't less about, but the listen to those politician with the message of God and country while jobs leave the country. Like Desmond Tutu, they came in and gave us the bible and took they our land. Unfortunately, the tactic works each every time and it's a sad commentary.

SingaporeSwim said...

the header on sbo's website reads...
"i'm asking you to believe. not just in my ability to bring about change in washington ... i'm asking you to believe in yours."

sbo challenges us to acknowledge, within our diverse selves, that we don't and shouldn't like all that we see in and about us - and not like it enough that we want to change it. the deep layers of status quo doo-doo have rendered us powerless and formless as a whole.

RedLipstick said...

Hennasplace:
They constantly vote against their interests and become more interested in gay marriage, which I couldn't care less about, but they listen to those politician with the message of God and country while jobs leave the country."

I always wonder if abortion was illegal, gay marriage outlawed by a constitutional amendment, stem cell research restricted, and all barriers to gun purchases and ownership removed would we wake up the next day and find utopia?

Would this reestablish a firm manufacturing base in this country? Would this reduce the price of gas? Would this make college tuition cheaper? Would this create more affordable housing?

Barack was definitely on point and the flop over the immigration legislation from last year proves this point. Why didn't folks protest the companies that hire illegal immigrants? If there were no jobs they wouldn't risk life and limb to come here.

Think of the large crews of landscapers, skyscraper window washers, dishwashers/busboys-girls, housekeepers, and construction workers--these people have jobs and that's why they keep coming and all the fences in world won't keep them out if US employers continue to hire them.

Clearly the folks in PA can see this all around them but rather than protest the companies that hire illegal immigrants they scream and holler at the immigrants for taking their jobs.

I also think that corporations have a point about the costs of doing business in the US especially the costs to provide healthcare and pensions to employees. This seems like a perfect reason for companies to come together with workers to push for some type of single payer healthcare plan. So many companies don't even provide healthcare coverage to their employees because it would put them out of business. This could reduce costs tremendously and allow US based companies to remain competitive and keep production and manufacturing state side. For goodness sake this is the only country of its size and stature in which people can go bankrupt due to healthcare costs--that's just crazy.

Seriously people have to stop sweatin' the small stuff and get real!

Anonymous said...

Field, I love your blog and am so glad I found it.

I'm in the same camp asMrs. Field. I got here because of the ugliness and vitriolic spin perpetrated by the Ice Queen& her campaign. Field, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." No matter how low the Ice Queen stoops, the O man refuses to go there with her. He is exhibiting way more self control and faith in the people than I would be able to.
The Huffington Post has a story about him encountering an obstacle due to his unwillingness to pay "street $" in Philadelphia. Whats your analysis of this? Can he find people who will do the work without the bagsheesh?

Finally, I wonder if Mrs. Obama is trying to sabotage him too? No one thinks her jokes are funny but her. Just because she is a strong woman doesn't mean she has to make him look like a vagina. She's incredibly self-absorbed. If she so smart she needs to STHU. I would like to see her exhibit moreclass & dignity since she is going to be representing the country and not just herself.
Right on, Field.

Anonymous said...

SILENCE IS NEVER GOLDEN!

Agentx said...

Great, just great.
People want politicians to be honest, and when they are honest, they get called 'elitist' or out of touch.

This coming from 2 wholeheartedly dishonest politicians; McCain and Clinton. The got chewed up by CNN and you all too.

I don't see anything optimitic with people losing their jobs and homes,

J said...

Here's a full quote:

" OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it’s fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre…they’re misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to ‘white working-class don’t wanna work — don’t wanna vote for the black guy.’ That’s…there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it’s sort of a race thing.

Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But — so the questions you’re most likely to get about me, ‘Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?’ What they wanna hear is so we’ll give you talking points about what we’re proposing — to close tax loopholes, uh you know uh roll back the tax cuts for the top 1%, Obama’s gonna give tax breaks to uh middle-class folks and we’re gonna provide healthcare for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you’ll find is, is that people of every background — there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you’ll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I’d be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you’re doing what you’re doing."

Who in the world would disagree with this?

On CNN, Toobin & Cafferty openly mocked Clinton and McCain for bringing this up.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/04/attack-from-multi-millionaires-clinton.html

andy said...

dear field, you may not be jittery but you are too critical of obama's inevitable gaffes such as typical white woman or bitter whatevers. the bigger political dynamic of this past month is that his race speech has put the racists between a rock and a hard place and they know it. obama's subtext is , vote for me or you are a racist. they have no choice. they resent it, but they know in their gut it is true. in the end he will win because the only other option is a massive national and worldwide public relations disaster. that coming after eight years of bush and iraq. since they know in their gut that he must win, they are venting their frustration with these fake grievances.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]It is not about immigration, it's more about what corporations do.[/quote]

As if I am surprised that YOU would say this. Gee.

There is a large ABSENCE of adequate corporations in Newark, Camden, Detroit and North Philly......look at the PROSPERITY that has blossomed there sans the evil corporation!! We need to make more of them exit these depression cities. Oh boy!

Did you see last July's "Harper's Weekly"? The citizens of Detroit are using the abandoned lots that used to contain houses and factories as URBAN GARDENS! If they keep this up they might just restore their wages to the pre-Henry Ford days.

[quote] It's to blame the person standing next to you because you can easily lash at him or her. However, we do not pay attention what corporations do to cause the divide planned or unplanned. During the industrial revolution when companies in their attempt to prevent the organizations of unions, they hired black laborers to replace the white labors while they strike. Of course, the black laborers were payed at a lower scale. That caused more of a division between the black and white worker class. Of course, if the thought had occurred to them, they could have banned together for a united front against the company owners as both group had shared interests. [/quote]

Oh my goodness. NO YOU DIDN'T!!

You just described the roots of the "Davis Bacon Act"? If you read the book "When Affirmative Action Was White" they point to THIS as a RACIST PIECE OF LEGISLATION. Indeed when my ancestors migrated from the South to the North for job opportunities the incumbent White unions went to the GOD-VERMIT and we got the Davis Bacon Act!!! What you don't mention is that these same unions WERE RACIST and they did not allow Black people to become members.

In the trifecta of labor, corporations and government - the two RACIST factions - labor and government at the time conspired against the Black worker for the benefit of one segment of the labor market.

BUT WAIT - your comparison does not stand. BLACK AMERICANS WERE AMERICAN CITIZENS and thus had the RIGHT to move anywhere THE DAMNED PLEASE in this country at the time. Thus it was RACIST labor and racist GOVERNMENT who were wrong to attempt to engineer the market based on race.

I ask you to tell me how you can manage to craft a synonymous situation using MIGRANTS who are not in this country legally in your example?

It is to the advantage of the Hispanic Activists and abstract leftists Americans to shift this into a RACIST conspiracy rather then the primary question of CITIZENSHIP!

I have noticed that whenever you all NEED TO "go RIGHT" to protect your own interests YOU CAN'T and WON'T. You rely on damnation of your favorite targets: corporations, rich people, conservatives to take the hit as you are unable to call it as it is.

By DEFINITION Labor needs a LABOR MONOPOLY in order to prevent wage erosion. Give a market a stead flow of low skilled workers to fill "commodity jobs" that require no special skills and you can't possibly defend the BEST INTERESTS of the American citizens who are being displaced.

[quote]
It is the crab in the barrel mentality that some people count on. We are so busy being concerned with one group is doing, that we barely noticed how the Federal Reserve bailed out Bear Sterns. Guess what our tax dollars are paying for the bail out because JP Morgan Chase did not want to bear of the fiduciary responsibility, yet the government does not what to deal with the sub-prime scandal as people lose their homes through unethical practices.[/quote]

First let me correct you before I partially agree with you. ONLY CONGRESS is able to apportion our TAX DOLLARS. Since there was no meeting of congress to craft the Bear Sterns deal - by definition THESE WERE NOT TAX DOLLARS from the US Treasury used to assist JP Morgan in purchasing Bear Sterns. This was money from the Federal Reserve. The Fed earns its money from proceeds from loans to member banks. The Fed does not have access to the US tax money - Congress does. The fed was created by the FDR administration to insure market stability. This action by the fed was in line with their mandate.

With that said I agree that Bear Sterns should have been allowed to fail. They got over extended in pursuit of profits. Their loans went belly up - they should have been allowed to fail as an example for other banks who come along and throw proper "risk management" out of the window. Bear Sterns had $6 in liquidity for every $1 in hard assets that it had control over.

With all of this said, hennasplace, sometimes TOUGH DECISIONS must be made and your base is going to be pissed off at times. We already have problems with the imbalance between the growth in our job base (specifically low end jobs - there are PLENTY of highly skilled jobs that are going begging for qualified candidates) and the population growth. To fail to address illegal immigration as you chase after the evil corporations is nothing but mental pacification.

I assure you that if a President Obama executed sustained raise on evil corporations who employ illegals and then deported them back home more than the corporate lobby would be up in arms at him.

Anonymous said...

I hate to quote Clarence Thomas but I will.

"This is a high tech lynching of an Upitty Black Man."


Replace the word "Eltitist" with the word "Uppity".

That is what they really want to say.

Ask Trent Lott.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.[/quote]

J:

I don't focus on Obama and his speeches. I focus on the MACHINE that he represents. He is the lead man in the Verizon Wireless army of many operatives. Do you find it interesting that the "Rust Belt" is mostly contained within a certain region of the country where the policies that THIS MACHINE already dominates are in place?

Are these places ANTI-union, Right wing strong holds? Are they in "right to work states"?

Is appealing to the "hope" for "change" of these people REALLY going to solve their problems......or just get this man elected?

Certainly we can point to a time in this country in which this region had GROWTH. If you think about it the water and air of these towns are cleaner now than they have been in the past 100 years. This is not because of some solidification of environmental laws.....this is because the POLLUTING factory or mining operation is no more.

Economics is about choices. While we rhetorically hear that, for example Global Warming is a choice between "jobs now in polluting industries" or the Earth being inhabitable in 100 years the truth of the matter is that many of these cities are staring the POLICY RESULTS that they have accepted long ago right in their faces. (Or we can blame it all on the CORPORATIONS and have no more worries)

Anonymous said...

So this is how Obama truly feels. He has not backed down from his comments because he and his supporters believe this to be the truth.

He truly believes, as do most of you commenting here, that America has not elected a Democrat to the White House because we are too ignorant to vote for Dem policies because we would rather 'cling' to God and guns?

We do not vote for a Democrat President because we are bigoted, xenophobic and protectionist?

There could be no other reason?

Could it be that voters are skeptical of supporting even more regulation and government spending?

Might not voters be wary of higher taxes on earners and the investments of a burgeoning 'investor class'?

And what about taxes on corporations that are the highest in the world? Do those high corporate tax rates have anything to do with corporations moving overseas?

Are there really no valid reasons to have not jumped on the Obama bandwagon?

Give me a break.

hennasplace said...

Constructive

This is country is built off of cheap labor whether you are using slaves, illegal immigrants, and exploit poor workers overseas to do it. Even Esai Morales said that there problems which are socio-economics between Blacks and Latino and money is at the root of it. There is a power struggle between white - black - latino - asian. I am not saying there is no racism, but it is used an effective tool to keep us separated and at the same time you see an ever growing gap between rich and poor.

You also have to ask yourself the question why illegal immigration exist. It's about exploitation of the worker. Look at it in a larger context, this country was built off the backs of one group or another. It's all about cheap labor, corporations want to make high profits and spend as little as possible. It is about who is going to gain financial power, and it's easy to pit one group against another.

As for the Federal Reserve, funds maintained by the US Federal Reserve, for the funds provided by the U.S. government in terms of aid and assistance. Federal agencies lend idle funds in the federal funds market. Which means tax dollars. No matter if you are the customer of the bank or tax payer, your money is being used in the federal reserve and I do not receive interest on the money if my bank put the money into the federal reserve. This is a monetary cycle and the person's money being used in one form or another. Forgive, I am going to post a blog entry from Robert Reich, an economist who can better explain the process. I hope Field does not kick me off his blog.

"Time to Pay Your Taxes, Support Wall Street, and Take a Licking
I spent all night trying to figure out how much I owe in taxes. I also couldn't help thinking about how my tax dollars are supporting a financial system that rewards risky bets that hurt me.

Some of the dollars I'm sending to Washington are now being used to backstop Wall Street investment bankers, hedge fund and private equity managers, and anybody else associated with a borrower that's too big to fail. The reason they're too big to fail is they've borrowed so much from me and from you - from our pension funds and money-market funds - that if they went bust, our savings would disappear. Even the danger of them going bust might make us so anxious we'd demand our money, which would close down the entire financial system.

The reason they've been able to borrow so much from us without putting up much of their own capital is they're unregulated, and don't have to put up their own money. The tax code also rewards them for borrowing rather than investing, by letting them deduct interest payments on the money they borrow. The tax code also allows them to treat the earnings they get on the investments they make with the money you and I lend them as capital gains rather than ordinary income. So many of them are paying taxes at a lower marginal tax rate than you and I are paying.

Finally, when the risky investments they've made with our money go bad, we get a housing crisis, and the value of our homes - our biggest assets - plummets. And our pension funds get socked. Yet most of them continue to pull in whopping incomes. James Cayne,the former CEO of Bear Stearns, left the company with a $232 million pay package. That's because when they place risky bets that pay off, they get the windfall, and when their bets go bad they're bailed out with our tax dollars.

Full circle.

hennasplace said...

Constructive

This is country is built off of cheap labor whether you are using slaves, illegal immigrants, and exploit poor workers overseas to do it. Even Esai Morales said that there problems which are socio-economics between Blacks and Latino and money is at the root of it. There is a power struggle between white - black - latino - asian. I am not saying there is no racism, but it is used an effective tool to keep us separated and at the same time you see an ever growing gap between rich and poor.

You also have to ask yourself the question why illegal immigration exist. It's about exploitation of the worker. Look at it in a larger context, this country was built off the backs of one group or another. It's all about cheap labor, corporations want to make high profits and spend as little as possible. It is about who is going to gain financial power, and it's easy to pit one group against another.

As for the Federal Reserve, funds maintained by the US Federal Reserve, for the funds provided by the U.S. government in terms of aid and assistance. Federal agencies lend idle funds in the federal funds market. Which means tax dollars. No matter if you are the customer of the bank or tax payer, your money is being used in the federal reserve and I do not receive interest on the money if my bank put the money into the federal reserve. This is a monetary cycle and the person's money being used in one form or another. Forgive, I am going to post a blog entry from Robert Reich, an economist who can better explain the process. I hope Field does not kick me off his blog.

"Time to Pay Your Taxes, Support Wall Street, and Take a Licking
I spent all night trying to figure out how much I owe in taxes. I also couldn't help thinking about how my tax dollars are supporting a financial system that rewards risky bets that hurt me.

Some of the dollars I'm sending to Washington are now being used to backstop Wall Street investment bankers, hedge fund and private equity managers, and anybody else associated with a borrower that's too big to fail. The reason they're too big to fail is they've borrowed so much from me and from you - from our pension funds and money-market funds - that if they went bust, our savings would disappear. Even the danger of them going bust might make us so anxious we'd demand our money, which would close down the entire financial system.

The reason they've been able to borrow so much from us without putting up much of their own capital is they're unregulated, and don't have to put up their own money. The tax code also rewards them for borrowing rather than investing, by letting them deduct interest payments on the money they borrow. The tax code also allows them to treat the earnings they get on the investments they make with the money you and I lend them as capital gains rather than ordinary income. So many of them are paying taxes at a lower marginal tax rate than you and I are paying.

Finally, when the risky investments they've made with our money go bad, we get a housing crisis, and the value of our homes - our biggest assets - plummets. And our pension funds get socked. Yet most of them continue to pull in whopping incomes. James Cayne,the former CEO of Bear Stearns, left the company with a $232 million pay package. That's because when they place risky bets that pay off, they get the windfall, and when their bets go bad they're bailed out with our tax dollars.

Full circle.

Ms.Martin said...

The "O" man has simply introduced the conversation!

He'll be fine.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]The reason they're too big to fail is they've borrowed so much from me and from you - from our pension funds and money-market funds - that if they went bust, our savings would disappear[/quote]

hennasplace:

Before I address your primary assertions about Illegal Immigration I need to address the information from Robert Reich.

This is an intellectually and economically DISHONEST comment.

These firms didn't BORROW anything from these PENSION FUNDS. These pension fund managers, seeking a PROFIT chose to INVEST these funds that have been aggregated on behalf of the employee's salary into investments.

How do you deal with the factually "catch 22"? A corporate or union pension fund is a "defined BENEFIT plan". In theory a certain negotiated amount of BENEFITS are assured to the worker and spouse until they die. In many cases the amount paid in by the worker is far less than the benefits that will be extracted.

If the pension fund managers put the money under a mattress or into a standard bank account yielding 4.5% - they would not have enough money to pay for their liabilities.

They have to MANAGE the money, seeking investments that have favorable yields but which are adequately risk averse. These are not LOANS per the pension fund. These are investments.

Side Note - several pension funds are scooping up FORECLOSED PROPERTY as we speak. They are paying pennies on the dollar and have enough resources to wait until the market recovers to sell them at a premium.

Are they "financial villains" in your book for 'exploiting' the hardship of another or just good business people?

Cali Hussein Tejano said...

Since we're now on the topic of immigration, I'm not going to mince words here.

Minutemen DO NOT protest against corporations because Latinos like myself are easier targets. They are too fucking lazy to go after the real problem, which is corporations willing to squeeze as much labor out of its workforce and pay as little for it as they can. Instead, they want to use immigration as a crutch to justify their hate for brown people.

And Obama shouldn't be reaching out for these people's votes anyway. I live in a rural community, and these people love their Republican candidates because they embrace gun rights and Christianity. It wouldn't matter if Obama or Clinton were the Democratic nomination. These rubes would never vote for a Democrat even if it meant an endless war in Iraq, foreclosure of their home, and/or the outsourcing of their jobs.

That is the truth, whether you can handle it or not.

Miriam said...

May I ask you something?

Isn't "Negro" a not nice term? How come you use it?

(I'm sure folks have asked you this many times. sorry if that's the case)

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]You also have to ask yourself the question why illegal immigration exist.[/quote]

Well - technically - ILLEGAL Immigration EXISTS when someone CROSSES THE US BORDER absent PERMISSION. I went to Canada last week and then came back a few days ago. I used my VALID US passport to leave and come back. I did it legally.

Now if you are asking why those who are not US citizens are coming to America? They are doing so to FIND EMPLOYMENT or to make more money than what is available in their home country.

But for some reason I don't think that this is where you are leading me. You want me to take a corporate-centric view of this matter. The evil corps need workers and the word has traveled to Mexico - "Come on up! They are hiring with no questions asked".

You say "cheap labor" with again a corporate-centric perspective. These corporations are "consumers of labor". Just as when you go on your shopping spree - you seek high value at low cost.

Likewise if a SUPPLIER of the goods that you intend to consume continuously raises their prices you either deal with it, reduce your consumption, move to a less expensive market or you find a lower priced alternative.

Just as when I debate people who talk about oil companies exploiting Africa - I will make the similar circumstance in this matter:

If it is the CORPORATION that is at fault then tell me what would happen if a foreign corp came to the USA and set up a policy in which they paid their Black workers twice as much as their White workers as a means of reparation for slavery? Though this might be popular among the Black workers - the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT would step in and disallow such a policy because THEIR EMPLOYMENT LAWS HAVE BEEN BROKEN!!!

Do you see the "controlling legal authority" in this example? It is the GOVERNMENT and its duty to ENFORCE THE LAWS....not the CORPORATION who might indeed be inclined to work with respect to their own intrests that is at fault.

Let us not forget the CONSUMER CO-CONSPIRATOR. How many wintertime tomatoes and lettuce did you eat in the winter months? Do you know who's hands picked them? If we can have "Dolphin safe tuna" labeling why are the anti-corporate activists high on having "Picked By Legals" labeling on all of our produce?

Is the PROBLEM possibly that some of you seek to point blame at the CORPORATION as your primary end game and not want to address the individual illegal immigrant as you cleave to your Intellectual and Moral Supremacy?

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]These rubes would never vote for a Democrat even if it meant an endless war in Iraq, foreclosure of their home, and/or the outsourcing of their jobs.[/quote]

Gee Cali in some communities THEY don't have any Rebes holding office over their communities and STILL they didn't have the money to purchase a house long before Evil Bush got into office.

Prior to the Iraq War ($155 billion per year) was a viable target as the reason why they are not getting federal money - they STILL were not getting the money from the feds that they desired.

As far as "outsourcing of jobs". Clearly it is a matter of the quantity of SKILLS possessed than outsourcing policy. If these jobs were so valued - why was there so much hostility against the CONSUMERS OF LABOR when they were present and getting no love?

It seems to me that LABOR 'WON' and.......that's the problem. You "won" the RIGHT to a Union Pay Rate but you LOST a CONSUMER willing to pay you that amount that you say you were worth in the manufacturing process.

Why not seek a favorable market rather than attempting to slam and damn the corporation?

At least their streams are clean now. The environmental regulation crowd should be proud of these areas now. They got what they had long advocated for.

ECONOMICS = trade offs - learn it.

shonufded said...

@Constructive Feedback

He who uses sledgehammer to drive nail smashes more than thumb.

Cali Hussein Tejano said...

As far as "outsourcing of jobs". Clearly it is a matter of the quantity of SKILLS possessed than outsourcing policy. If these jobs were so valued - why was there so much hostility against the CONSUMERS OF LABOR when they were present and getting no love?

Are you trying to tell us that Americans don't have the skills to do factory work? Customer care? Nice to see how you support those rubes by slamming them. I'm sure they'll come around to your point of view. (sarcasm)

It seems to me that LABOR 'WON' and.......that's the problem. You "won" the RIGHT to a Union Pay Rate but you LOST a CONSUMER willing to pay you that amount that you say you were worth in the manufacturing process.

Many people getting fucked by this administration do not work for unions. That's why the fucking gets harder every year, yet people like Clinton and McCain tell us to work harder. For what? A tube of lube to make it feel better?

I don't know who you are, but this argument is over. You can sing it, but you can't bring it. I'm done with you.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Are you trying to tell us that Americans don't have the skills to do factory work?[/quote]

NOPE. This is NOT what I said AT ALL.
I said that there are plentiful jobs that are going unfilled because they are jobs that require advanced SKILLS.
(Nursing, Pharacists, Design Engineers, etc)

In my job as a pimp for my corporation I listened live to a CIO of a major railroad say that the retirement of a large quantity of his staff beginning in 5 years and through the next 25 years is going to seriously impact his operations. He (just as the recent announcement from AT&T's CEO) was saying that there is a big time lack of SKILLED WORKERS in the market to step in and take over.

You keep talking about JOBS AT THE BOTTOM. We need (and have) jobs that require EDUCATION gone wanting. The problem is that you all don't seem to have the ability to ASK THE VICTIM to do much in support of his own salvation.

It is interesting, however, how these FORMER shitty "factory jobs" in which the UNIONS (in some of the industries) complained about the repetitiveness of the work, the danger of the work and their shortened life spans. Now they don't have these jobs to complain about any longer. THEY ARE FREE!!!

Isn't this great Cali?


[quote]Many people getting fucked by this administration do not work for unions. That's why the fucking gets harder every year, yet people like Clinton and McCain tell us to work harder. For what? A tube of lube to make it feel better?[/quote]

Clinton and McCain. Yup there it is. (I know who he is voting for).

So it is "this Administration" who is CAUSING job loss.

Hey Cali - There was one Michael Moore movie that didn't get much press that you should check out. It was created in 1998 - yup just as the economy was "booming". (Or at least this is what most would agree with BEFORE they got mad at Clinton because his wife is duking it out with their savior). Mr. Moore investigated the record DOWNSIZING that occurred that year - 1998. The movie is called "The Big One".

In my time I have also learned a valuable research reference as I study leftwing arguments. You see the Democrats and Barack Obama are on the left. In order for me to get consistent criticism of them I go FAR LEFT. I'm talking International Socialist Review left.

It seems that prior to THIS administration "fucking" the workers - ther previous administration was "screw'em under the radar":

YEAR 1998 - While You all were cheering

US job cuts to hit 625,000 by year's end
http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/dec1998/jobs-d11.shtml

[quote]that US job cuts could reach 625,000 by the end of the year, making it the worst year of the decade so far.[/quote]

Oh I forgot. That was CLINTON. He is a bad guy like Bush is. But OBAMA "really, really Feels Our pain!!". He has a HISTORY of creating jobs!! He is going to come into office and create MORE JOBS THAN EVER!!

He is going to create so many jobs that we are going to have to tell the CORPORATIONS to STOP CREATING JOBS - we can't take any more jobs. They are going to be able to send some jobs overseas because we'll have EXTRA!

This is what OBAMA is going to do!!

He'll go down as the best president in history! The will rename "Washington DC" and "The White House" after him!!!

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]shonufded said...

@Constructive Feedback

He who uses sledgehammer to drive nail smashes more than thumb.[/quote]

@shonufded:

Understood - but when the nails are on a claw that is attempting to slash your throat - you'd better have the right equipment to stop that set of nails from holding you down so that it can sink their fangs in you and consume you.

Cali Hussein Tejano said...

Quit living in revisionist history. Let's go to Ohio, 2008...

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, Ohio had 209,400 fewer nonfarm jobs in December 2007 than it had in December 2000. This loss of 3.7 percent of Ohio’s jobs is the worst seven-year loss in state records that begin in 1939 as the Great Depression was ending. (The details are in my special report.) The previous seven-year job loss record was the period ending in 2006 (3.6 percent of jobs lost) and before that the record was held for the period ending in 1962 when 3.4 percent of jobs were lost in the demobilization after the Korean War.

That's just one state out of fifty. And it's only going to get worse from here thanks to President Bush and his disastrous economic policies --and President Clinton repealing the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which deregulated the housing industry and threatens every American's livelihood.

Once again, you've been schooled. Class dismissed.

field negro said...

"May I ask you something?

Isn't "Negro" a not nice term? How come you use it?"

miriam, google field Negro 101.

Hopefully that will help you.

...tejano, don't dismiss school yet, there is still room left for learning :)

Anonymous said...

No matter how you slice and dice it, the problem is - they don't want a Black man in the white house period. Out of the many problems that we are facing, the traditional media is focusing on a speech where Barack says people are bitter. The media is leaving out the why?

Miriam said...

Thanks.

o wow.I 've got my reading cut out for me. lol.

much appreciated.

kid said...

Hey Field, about Glen Beck he had a problem with a woman from Sen.Obama's campaign calling little black kids "monkies". Glen kept repeating and repeating it.He said he call kids monkeys all the time.Then a guy who make Wayne Brady look like Malcolm X said whites can't even use the N-word.That was J.Kenneth Blackwell. Now call Beck a Moron and he would say that it is offensive, it's insulting to Mormons.He's not a dumb prick ,he's a racist.The only one we can give a pass to for saying monkey is Howard Cosell,he really did't know.Hell I heard some some his best friends WERE Muslim.

elle said...

I just read what Glen Beck said about Michelle Obama on mediamatters. Does anyone care what the fuck Beck thinks? No, thats what I thought, a goddamn idiot who can barely make a coherent argument. And to here those verbal attacks made by wingnut posters...uhh, makes me wish I had AK-47.

elle said...

kid, could you provide some weblinks with proof of a obama supporter calling Black kids "monkies". none? thought so

kid said...

Hey elle seriously, don't say that only republikans talk about violence.There was a guy in Cleveland who threathened interacial couples for 20 years. He threatened Clarence Thomas and 5 years later they responded. The republiklans LIKE him, and it took 5 years.You seen how people can walk pass Secret Service and talk to Sen.Obama.Now let me wear a red bowtie and walk up to the President, I would be judge by 12, carried by 6.

kid said...

Hey Elle,

Go to Glen Beck's site.She was white and she was dismissed. Glen Beck want to make her a shaheed.

Deb said...

elle...believe this is what kid was talking about though the woman was a Latina not white:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/883120,CST-NWS-trustee08.article

kid said...

Thanks Deb,

I want Sen.Obama to win ,I not trying to throw salt on him.Hey elle and Deb go to Taylor Marsh's and sugarandspice blog, and see how they ARE high tech lynching him.Maybe elle thought i was being negative on him, hyperlink to my website,I was just saying what Beck was doing.

Much Love.

Cali Hussein Tejano said...

Glenn Beck can suck the Devil's barbed (bleep). I've never forgotten that Mexinol joke he made on his blog last year. I still have the screen shot somewhere on my hard drive. I'll have to post it again to give everyone a reminder of what kind of KKKlown this guy really is.

kid said...

Hey cali , you are cool and everthing but you never be President with that name, never.President Cali, LOL . Just funnin'.Did it sound like I said anything bad about Sen.Obama?I don't know how she got that idea?

Deb said...

kid...Much love back at you but in the interest of full disclosure I am not an Obama supporter - but don't hold that against me, I'm pretty rational, fair-minded and call things like I see them.

I will, however and go read the blogs you suggested (including yours)because I want to hear what everyone is saying/thinking - helps shape my view of this world in which we live.

non-hick said...

FN,

Long time lurker from the sticks of montco. I think you're right - about 8 pts. in the polls his mouthshoe cost. But seriously, whether you think his comments are right or wrong, can we all admit as republicans and democracts, that rural PA is DEAD economically? It will NEVER come back, no more steel mills, no more coal mines, no more high wage, low-skilled jobs. Whether O'man wants to blame these folks for voting for guns & god over economics, I really don't think there is much hope for high wage jobs to come streaming back into Harrisburg.

Call me cynical, but raising taxes here, tweaking trade agreements there isn't going to change those facts. In the absence of that, I'd say blaming him losing the vote on guns, gods, and gays is worth as much as saying they won't vote for the black man.

BTW, as a white guy who worked in the mining industy in Zimbabwe (american consultant, I ain't a boer...) I got to say the news in Zim is the most important story right now. Despite the focus of all of southern africa on the election, he and the Zanu-PF still thumb their noses at both their citizens and their neighbors. Awful.

kid said...

Hey Deb,

Their calling his wife Kim Il Jong, they want to hang her but not just yet.Taylor Marsh called him gay(I can't say the F-word).Then they said he was anti-gay. His church is pro gay one of the few in the country.They said he was anti-semitic , in Cleveland he told about his trip to Israel. My father said you can tel how good a jog a black man is doing by how white people hate him.Sen .Obama doing a good jobALL of Fox news hate him.

kid said...

Sorry I meant Job.

Anonymous said...

Funny thing. All those corporations went South, not to bless the hillbilly crackers for their belief in Gawd, but to get dirt cheap labor as the Northerners had real schools and were worth the money. More than one industry found the wages in the South were low because the skill levels weren't present and the literacy was laughable. Oh, this was the 1990s.

The corporations always wanted the planter lifestyle and economics, it just wasn't feasable before. Now they don't have to pay middle-class wages and can live like the 'Merican aristocracy they so fully believe that they are. Just don't rile the Chinese. They still use that damnable meritocracy metric.

Mold

Admiral Komack said...

"I don't understand this...what Obama said was spot on. It's true. Why are people harping on the guy for saying the truth."

-Why?

Because people would rather be bullshitted.

Admiral Komack said...

http://www.bittervoters.org/

Hat tip: Jack and Jill Politics

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]That's just one state out of fifty. And it's only going to get worse from here thanks to President Bush and his disastrous economic policies --and President Clinton repealing the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which deregulated the housing industry and threatens every American's livelihood.
[/quote]

Where do you all get these people from? Do some of you go to a special indoctrination school or something?

Cali points to OHIO!!! Ohio and Michigan have been in a long running DEPRESSION for nearly 2 decades. Do you find it interesting how Ohio purged its evil Republicans (governor and senator) while it suffered its economic decline while Michigan RETAINED it's Democratic governor, senators and the Hip Hop Mayor of Detroit retained his job as well. Funny how that works - isn't it?

But wait - not that I would expect YOU to read the Wall Street Journal, Cali - it is after all the Diary of Capitalism. It is now owned by the owner of "Faux News" - so I am sure you don't believe anything unless Keith Olbermann says it.

While Ohio was faltering what was happening in Texas?

[quote]Texas v. Ohio
March 3, 2008; Page A16

As Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton race around Ohio and Texas for tomorrow's primaries, they are telling a tale of economic woe. Yet the real story isn't how similar the two states are economically but how different. Texas has been prospering while Ohio lags, and the reasons are instructive about what works and what doesn't in economic policy.

There's no doubt times are tough in Ohio. The state has lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs since 2000, home foreclosures are soaring, and real family income is lower now than in 2000. Meanwhile, the Texas economy has boomed since 2004, with nearly twice the rate of new job creation as the rest of the nation. The nearby table compares the states over a decade or so.

Let's start with the fact that Texas's growth puts the lie to the myth that free trade costs American jobs. Anti-Nafta rhetoric doesn't play well in El Paso, San Antonio and Houston, which have become gateway cities for commerce with Latin America and have flourished since the North American Free Trade Agreement passed Congress in 1993. Mr. Obama's claim of one million lost jobs due to trade deals is laughable in Texas, the state most affected by Nafta. Texas has gained 36,000 manufacturing jobs since 2004 and has ranked as the nation's top exporting state for six years in a row. Its $168 billion of exports in 2007 translate into tens of thousands of jobs.

Ohio, Indiana and Michigan are losing auto jobs, but many of these "runaway plants" are not fleeing to China, Mexico or India. They've moved to more business-friendly U.S. states, including Texas. GM recently announced plans for a new plant to build hybrid cars. Guess where? Near Dallas. In 2006 the Lone Star State exported $5.5 billion of cars and trucks to Mexico and $2.4 billion worth to Canada.

Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Democrat who supports Mrs. Clinton, blames his state's problems on President Bush. But Ohio's economy has been struggling for years, and most of its wounds are self-inflicted. Ohio now ranks 47th out of 50 in economic competitiveness, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council. Ohio politicians deplore plant closings even as they impose the third highest corporate income tax in the country (10.5%) and the sixth highest personal income tax (8.87%). A common joke is that Ohio lays out the red carpet for companies -- when they leave the state. By contrast, Texas has no income tax, a huge competitive advantage.

Ohio's most crippling handicap may be that its politicians -- and thus its employers -- are still in the grip of such industrial unions as the United Auto Workers. Ohio is a "closed shop" state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not. Many companies -- especially foreign-owned -- say they will not even consider such locations for new sites. States with "right to work" laws that make union organizing more difficult had twice the job growth of Ohio and other forced union states from 1995-2005, according to the National Institute for Labor Relations.

On the other hand, Texas is a right to work state and has been adding jobs by the tens of thousands. Nearly 1,000 new plants have been built in Texas since 2005, from the likes of Microsoft, Samsung and Fujitsu. Foreign-owned companies supplied the state with 345,000 jobs. No wonder Texans don't fear global competition the way some Presidential candidates do.

So tomorrow the eyes of America will be on these two states moving in different directions. Ohio has an economy burdened by high taxes and work rules that impose heavy costs on employers. Texas embraces free trade, keeps taxes low, doesn't impose unions on business and has tooled itself for 21st century global competition. Ohioans may not like to hear this, but for any company considering where to locate a new plant or move an existing one, the choice between Ohio and Texas isn't even a close call.[/quote]

I guess you have to BE AWARE OF THE FACTS before you can "school" someone.

What was that about VOTING AGAINST YOUR OWN INTERESTS again?

I fully understand why Marxism is popular among some people. Absent their CONTROL over CAPITAL their support for labor as they always increase the costs of doing business by transferring more burden on the CONSUMERS OF LABOR is going to always CHASE THE evil corporations AWAY.

If the CORPORATIONS ARE "greedy" for wanting to find a LOWER cost of doing business.....what is to be said about the ORGANIZED LABOR who always pursue MORE COSTS of doing business? They are heroes of the working class? Is this the case when their antics end up driving away CONSUMERS OF LABOR?

You may be more "intellectually and morally superior" to me because YOU have 'the common man' on your side but this "common man" also NEEDS A JOB. You all don't seem to do too good at creating jobs from the abundant underutilized labor that is around you. I am not saying YIELD to the evil corporations but surely an honest person must see that YOUR ANTICS when they go too far actually hurt the workers that you CLAIM to be working on behalf of.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]as the Northerners had real schools and were worth the money. More than one industry found the wages in the South were low because the skill levels weren't present and the literacy was laughable. Oh, this was the 1990s[/quote]

Mold:

IF this is really the case and the NORTH has all of these good schools and "smart people"......why don't they use their smarts to restart these abandoned factories to employ the people that seek jobs if it is just that easy?

The evil corporations, as CONSUMERS OF LABOR have a right to seek out a fair balance between their production goals and the costs associated with them. It seems that you believe that LABOR'S antics were all legitimate and above board. They were "working for the little guy" you know.

I heard someone on another blog state that it was "immoral" for corporations to depart the North, leaving the many thousands of people unemployed. I only wonder if he had a view on the morality of those forces who drove up the costs of doing business with their compensation demands, regulations and legal liabilities that precipitated the relocation?

Are corporations the only bad guys in you all's narrative?

Anonymous said...

What's so sad is that Obama is taking heat because he told the truth! Ameraica has a huge jail population, jobs going overseas, and still can't find bin Laden, but can argue over gay marriage, abortion, baseball, owning assualt rifles, church, etc. I say we get the economy and justice system straight and then worry about the smaller stuff.

Deb said...

Anonymous...you said, "Funny thing. All those corporations went South, not to bless the hillbilly crackers for their belief in Gawd, but to get dirt cheap labor as the Northerners had real schools and were worth the money. More than one industry found the wages in the South were low because the skill levels weren't present and the literacy was laughable. Oh, this was the 1990s.

The corporations always wanted the planter lifestyle and economics, it just wasn't feasable before. Now they don't have to pay middle-class wages and can live like the 'Merican aristocracy they so fully believe that they are."

Normally I try not be reactive, but this comment smacks of all things that have been, and still are wrong in this country. If you were being facetious, then read no further.

Your haste to slam "hillbilly crackers" belies not only your tactless and unmerited insult to the hardworking "dirt cheap" labor of Southerners who, at the very LEAST, are equally as "educated" as Northerners, but your obvious ignorance to the lower costs of living and doing business in the South. Lower wages in the South have absolutely nothing to do with the absence of skill level or literacy. That's a myth created by the insecure who need to find somebody to be better than in order to make themselves feel superior to - somebody. "Burning House" mentality.

Born and raised in the South, but having lived North, South, East, West, as well as overseas, I can tell you that some of us recognize and understand that mo' money, mo' rides than we can drive or afford at one time, McMansions, McChurches and the concept of "you are what you do vs. you do what you are," is self-defeating, soul-draining and pretty damn expensive to maintain. "Real schools and were worth the money???" Get over the "let me impress you with my CV bullshit - nobody cares. There are just as many "real schools" in the South as there are in the North. What matters in the end, is what knowledge you've gained and what you produce as a result.

"Planter lifestyle?" You really need to get out more, experience something other than your familiar. You sound like my cousins who hated to come "down South" in the summer because they'd rather be in the concrete jungle of NY just so they could say they were better, more sophisticated than us (nevermind the circumstances under which they lived). The South offers way more than you could ever imagine - the least of which, is the reality of knowing with whom you are dealing if you're a Black person in America and the opportunity, if you're savvy enough, to live whatever lifestyle you envision. Why? Because it's cheaper and less stressful to exist!

Constructive Feedback said...

deb:

You have to understand. Mold's comments are written in the spirit of deep RESENTMENT. He/she is pained by the loss of jobs in the North so instead of addressing the problem - he/she takes a "sour grapes" approach and makes an ad hominem attack against one region of the nation and all of the people contained within.

Earl Graves - the great publisher of Black Enterprise stated that if he were a young person starting out today he would not live in NYC but would go to the South instead. This is where there is the greatest opportunity for young people, particularly of color in this nation today.

I always marvel when certain people who are typically DEFENSIVE against statements made by racist Whites as they label broad stretches of people as "ignorant" yet these same people who are offended turn around and make use of the very same prejudiced tactics that they have learned from their long time adversaries.

Again I ask those who live in the North to use their BRILLIANCE to reopen the factories and to create opportunity for the people living there - SINCE THEY ARE SO SMART.

Anonymous said...

Constructive Feedback:
You got a constitutional law professor running for office. He goes to Harrisburg, and runs with the gun folk, reminding them how much he believes in the Second Amendment.

Nobody gives a fig about 'property rights' -- white folks out in the boonies care about 'gun rights', so that's what he talks about.

Cityfolk have got to get it into their heads that there is no global solution to guns. Gotta make it a city wide solution, first -- nobody outside the city is gonna care if he can't take his gun into the city...

willyjsimmons said...

What Obama said was 'true'?

whites 'cling' to guns and religion out of 'bitterness'...

Um, might wanna rethink that one.

Furthermore

They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it.

Obama's NOT cynical about government all of the sudden?

LOL

Dude ain't even making sense anymore.

shonufded said...

@willyjsimmons:
Dude ain't even making sense anymore.

Dude he's making sense, you just choose not to hear him.

We're all cynical about government, including Obama. That's why he's running: he wants to take the "cynicism" out of government.

That's him platform, but when he premises this position, its a no-sale because people have allowed their cynicism to get in the way.

It appears you've done the same.

chula said...

hi field,
this negress opinion is that a huge number of white people can be so myopic, racist, and plain stupid that they wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the booty!

this is exactly why you have so many of them voting for these republicans whose agendas are focused on the wealthy, not the working classes of white folks who voted them in.

shit, since the civil war, you can trace how ignorant white folks have been in regards to race and class.

Obama has to realize this and stop thinking that white folks can or want to understand what is really going on. Man, when white people wake the fuck up, this country may be dust.

the scary thing for corporate media and the upper class is a presidential candidate speaking truth about class in this country.

the use of race, religion, and xenophobia are the smoke and mirrors that keep white folks ignorant and the rest of us having to deal with the affects of their ignorant rage (fucked up laws on the books, lack of economic opportunity for colored folks, police brutatlity).

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