And now this from my man Tim Wise. (Hey the right wing wackos hate him, so that alone ought to make you read this shit) After last night's debate I think it's the perfect time to drop this little gem on you folks.
"For most white folks, indignation just doesn't wear well. Once affected or conjured up, it reminds one of a pudgy man, wearing a tie that may well have fit him when he was fifty pounds lighter, but which now cuts off somewhere above his navel and makes him look like an idiot.
Indignation doesn't work for most whites, because having remained sanguine about, silent during, indeed often supportive of so much injustice over the years in this country--the theft of native land and genocide of indigenous persons, and the enslavement of Africans being only two of the best examples--we are just a bit late to get into the game of moral rectitude. And once we enter it, our efforts at righteousness tend to fail the test of sincerity.
But here we are, in 2008, fuming at the words of Pastor Jeremiah Wright, of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago--occasionally Barack Obama's pastor, and the man whom Obama credits with having brought him to Christianity--for merely reminding us of those evils about which we have remained so quiet, so dismissive, so unconcerned. It is not the crime that bothers us, but the remembrance of it, the unwillingness to let it go--these last words being the first ones uttered by most whites it seems whenever anyone, least of all an "angry black man" like Jeremiah Wright, foists upon us the bill of particulars for several centuries of white supremacy.
But our collective indignation, no matter how loudly we announce it, cannot drown out the truth. And as much as white America may not be able to hear it (and as much as politics may require Obama to condemn it) let us be clear, Jeremiah Wright fundamentally told the truth.
Oh I know that for some such a comment will seem shocking. After all, didn't he say that America "got what it deserved" on 9/11? And didn't he say that black people should be singing "God Damn America" because of its treatment of the African American community throughout the years?
Well actually, no he didn't. "
There is more....
Ahhh the hate A-merry-ca crowd. But do they really? Wasn't the good Reverend a Marine? (That is a pic I have up there of a younger Reverend Wright in his military uni) And is it A-merry-ca that they hate or some of the people who control it? I wonder how many of those people served this country by putting their asses on the line?
And hey, if John Kerry was"Swift Boated" what do we call this phenomenon? "Reverend Wrighted?"
****Thanks Matef****
89 comments:
That was a good article. Please do read the whole thing.
Hey field,
have you heard that O'reilly talking about the Rev. Wright's house ? It cost $1.3 mil, but it ain't like Klannity's mansion, it cost $10.5 mil. Fox and Fox 2 (ABC/Disney) are going after US.Fox is putting out the meme that Obama is antisemitic.Let every Jewish person in Pennsylvania know about Hal Turner,American Terrorist. It should be on your 6:00 News. On Klanniity's aka Nathan Lane Jr. show he said Barack went to the Millionn Man March.Someone has to stop this Mother Fu***r .Have them say it several times on the air Hal Turner wants to kill Jews, and his BBF (bigot friend forever) is Kowboy Klannity Kostello. Obermann couldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. They call msnbc Obama's channel already.
Fuck an Obama!
I’m tired of you people trying to create a monolithic culture and movement around this negro. If there are white people who like him, so be it! But all of us in the black community do not have to all be for him.
I don’t know about politics except for what I read in the papers or what I’ve been told by others, and I don’t know much about world situations, even though I was in the military myself but I served in the force to get the hell away from you people and the poverty of negritude that comes with the poverty of living with y’all.
I just don’t like this negro. He’s a man. A black man and he looks like my father and my first husband.
All slick, affixed with his “god guy” smile that he flashes to the public, but when he gets home, watch out! Nothing but criticisms about how my mother folded his shirts or cooked his dinners. Meanwhile, he didn’t work while mother did.
He was always about him and the other misogyny-entranced women of our community showered him with praises while they left their backdoors open him behind my mother’s back. He was biracial, so it was all about His High-Yellow Highness around our hood. Alas, he finally left poor mother, broken and a used husk as he chose another woman-My mother’s hairdresser! So now he has a real rich lady to live off of!
Naturally, I married a man who liked like father, no this motherfucker REALLY did look like the Prince of Chicago, Obama. All sweet and nice, coming off like the boardroom star he thinks he is. And he was a liar and cheat. My therapist told me that it was transference from my father to my Ex that drew me to him. He used his prowess to make me leave the military and get pregnant with my first child. I did not want to get pregnant! Then, I was forced to take menial jobs like when I worked as a Barista to make ends meet, but my Ex? All he did was be a player behind my back and criticize me if the house was messy. Whenever we had a fight, my mother’s friends and neighbor women would dogpile me, covering me in the thick black misogynistic shit from my Ex’s ass. He stayed clean as a whistle while I would be awash in feces of blame and shame.
Oh, but I was the jezebel when I finally left him and dared to go back to school. I left him before he would do to me as father had done to mother and now I am free from his evil. The evil that I know is in Obama’s heart. It is the same evil that crashed into the towers, flown by men who were evil little shits to women. I’m so glad that Hilary, our shining warrior princess voted to bomb Baghdad. She should have never apologized for that! I loved Obama’s performance last night, sputtering, lying, eyes twitching the way my ex’s eyes used to twitch whenever I caught him in one of lies of infidelities. Obama is sexist and sexism is the only real societal problem there is. So you black people better get with it! The Clintons aren’t racist. They have been with us every step of the way and here we are betraying them and the Democratic Party! Black women, Hilary is a soul sister more so than Alice Walker or Angela Davis ever could be. Hilary had a child, so she knows what we have all gone through. Get the big monolithic black foot off our necks!
Catty-
I hope for your sake, those comments are simply a poor attempt at humor. If not, then you need some serious help.
catty greenglen said...
I served in the force to get the hell away from you people and the poverty of negritude that comes with the poverty of living with y’all.
If you're really a black person, get some help.
If you're a white person, get some help.
If you're just f'ing around, black or white, get some help.
You just don't want women to have our POTUS which should be Hilary!
You remind me of the boys I grew up with in the 'hood who would take my Malibu Barbie and dirty her blonde coif in the puddles of mud or try to rape her with play doh pee pees and wee wees. Look at how the menz dirty her and for what? Mr. Darth Obama! Well his Jedi mind tricks don't work on me!
People always want to talk about poor little black Obama, well what about hard-working middle class Hilary? From the very bottom of society she came from and fought her way all the way to the senate!She did so much for us and we are quick to overwhelm the switch boards at ABC over Obama. Please!
Gee.....I guess I missed something.....What exactly did Hillary do for us????
From the bottom of society??....give me a break!!
Truth.
Many whites are happiest when we're complicit in our own bondage, when we spontaneously stream out of the slave quarters singing and dancing all the way to the Big House to celebrate our own enslavement, there to receive the benediction of "good niggas" from Massa.
For us to question Massa for his harsh treatment, to point out where Massa has failed, will not only bring down his wrath, but a thousand lashes across the back.
[Video snippets of Reverend Wright ran almost hourly for a week, and he's still being excoriated publicly for his hubris to correct this country.]
That, sir, is a powerful article. Unfortunately, Mr. Wise has not exaggerated at all.
Field,
"Wayne?" :-) Caught the tail-end (didn't get on til about 2:40, were you on before that?).
Anyway, I'm a real Tim Wise fan. His book, "White Like Me: Reflections on Race From a Privileged Son" is a great read! His work with the People’s Institute for Survival and Beyond (PISAB) in NOLA, no doubt helped shape his thinking.
"I wonder how many of those people served this country by putting their asses on the line?"
I'd venture to say there would be quite a few. I know I met plenty in the Navy and my son ran up on quite a few - to his detriment in some cases - while in the Army in Iraq. Differences in "motivation to serve" is what I found to be the key determining factor in the varying responses to Rev. Wright's comments.
And just as swift-boated has been added to our lexicon, "Rev. Wrighted" will soon be too.
"well what about hard-working middle class Hilary? From the very bottom of society she came from and fought her way all the way to the senate!"
Now I'm certain this is a poor (even by troll standards) attempt at humor.
Love Tim Wise, love this site, powerful words.
Somehow the words "hood" and "blond coif" just don't seem to go together...
What Obama Could Have Said About His Pastor
Rev. Jeremiah Wright, a True Patriot
By LAWRENCE KORB and IAN MOSS
In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines.
Read the rest of the story here.
Catty,
Middle-class Hillary grew up in the mean streets of Park Ridge, IL. She canvassed South Side Chicago for evidence of electoral fraud against Richard Nixon in 1960. She served as president of the Young Republicans at Wellesly College during her freshman year. She is a Goldwater Girl. And now she's willing to play the race card against Barack Obama.
Your girl Hillary has come full circle, as most conservatives go.
Look it up
[quote]Hey the right wing wackos hate him, so that alone ought to make you read this shit[/quote]
If only you would start HATING the politicians in Philadelphia who ARE NOT "right wing wackos" and leverage that anger to implement "the audacity of CHANGE" in the city.
Interesting that the house of Sean Hannity of $10 million is compared with Rev. Jeremiah Wright of $1.6 million.
Here are come key distinctions that you would learn to consider before you say certain things in pursuit of your ideological hatred:
1) Wright a PREACHER. Beyond this much of his message talks about HELPING OTHERS. Instead of "helping himself" to the collection plate proceeds to build a house worthy of "MTV Cribs" some of the usual suspects should note that 10 poor people could have had houses built for them with this money. Wright could have been their neighbor - saving their souls for Jesus. I have no doubt that my new found friend CHRISTIAN progressive liberal would agree.
Sean Hannity is not a preacher and receives his money from a contract with advertisers paying his way via Fox News. (I am sorry. I forgot which blog I am on. Make that on "Fake News" with all of the vile advertisers contributing to this RACIST network that spews vile and hateful messages........but Bill Maher preachers love and unity and is best buds with the Pope)
2) I am sure that you might hear Wright condemn CAPITALISM and make note of the STOLEN LAND that this county was built upon.. Interestingly - when he is the beneficiary his "stolen land" was duly laundered.
Hey field, I'm definitely feeling that "Rev. Wrighted" meme and it's something that needs to get legs pronto.
Rachel Maddow did such a superb job delineating and cold-busting the tactic that Joe Scarborough had to sulk off the air in shame.
I think caty greenglen and c...feedback is the same person :)
Sorry deb,i think I was off the air by then. The podcast is still there though.
Let me get some constructive feedback (it feels good to be able to write out those two words)on how I did:)
If we are talking about the numbers of people killed in relation to 9/11 how about Iraq? Mr. Bush and Mr, Cheney, and Mr. Rumsfeld, et. al. started the wrong war with the wrong country for the wrong reason. Now there are over 4,000 good people dead, tens of thousands US troops wounded (many who are not getting the treatment they deserve), 4 million persons displaced from their homes, many out of the country. And let's not even get into the fact that these poor young men and women who signed up to defend their country have been sent back to Iraq for three, four, and now five tours of duty because Mr. Bush and company don't want to bring back the draft (remember, in Viet Nam you served one 13 month tour and if you came home alive, you were done with your military service).
And if that does not make you angry, then you must be in a coma or otherwise brain dead.
This is not about black or white. It is not about hating America. It is all about hating what America has become under this administration.
I'm almost done bloviating. There were many white reverends who said 9/11 was our comeuppance for allowing homosexuals to exist in this country. And I bet those same white reverends supported George W. Bush and I bet those same white reverends are supporting John McCain.
So, where is the outrage and anger there.
@ catty greenglen:
Are you still seeing the psycho therapist? If not you certainly should be. It sounds to me as if you have been so emotionally scarred by your father and ex-husband that you are attempting to demonize Barack simply because of physical similarities to them. You know what? I'm sure we all feel for you sweetie, all the pain you've endured by these evil handsome men. But do us all a favor and get over yourself. We have all been though some things. And for every sob story you've got I've got 2 and 3 more but you know what I haven't let those things warp me into lumping all men together. And answer me this....have you been stalked, kidnapped, held hostage, pistol whipped or raped? I have endured all of the above but you know what? I haven't let those things warp me into someone who sees anyone who looks like those men and assumes they are evil. GET OVER yourself sweetheart. Haven't you learned by now that black women don't have the luxury to fall apart and blame their hardships for being wacky. If we all did that we would all be raving loons. Barack Obama is not your father. Barack Obama is not your ex-husband. But reasoning with some one who is as emotionally unstable as you appear may be pointless. But you are in my prayers.
OBAMA '08!
Field, again, these innate things with whitefolks are excerbated by a press--TV and blogs--which must be personal, low-down gossipy/crazy to survive. Or at least they think they must. Fox has brought the whole medium down, but again, politics, racism etc is just a PIECE of the equation and not the whole pie. It's abut business and entertainment, stockholders, etc as well. Under a different paradigm in a different time (of course Barack...or Hillary...wouldn't have gotten far) you wouldn't have seen this stuff.
@ FN, I have a feeling CF is not Catty. But Catty's style of writing is familiar to me though...
@ Cami,
I'm sorry that you suffered at the hands of some PoS and it wouldn't upset me one bit if you did come out of it angry and bitter. With attacks like that you can only leave it up to the survivor to determine how they will grieve. But yes, you can't blame all the men in a community just as some pin-headed brothers can't blame all black women on some romance that ended badly or an abusive mother. They too need to get over themselves.
Anyway, I'm not an Obama supporter, but at least I know why and my reasons are political only and well documented on my blog.
I've known people like Catty who will politicize genuine hurts that they feel, but will attach themselves to real movements and in turn, twisting things to complete chaos.
Catty, might I suggest a WWII-era therapist either from the Jim Crow South or a Holocaust survivor? They usually work wonders with a boot to the buttocks.
catty greenglen said...
"Fuck an Obama!
I’m tired of you people trying to create a monolithic culture and movement around this negro. If there are white people who like him, so be it! But all of us in the black community do not have to all be for him.
I don’t know about politics except for what I read in the papers or what I’ve been told by others, and I don’t know much about world situations, even though I was in the military myself but I served in the force to get the hell away from you people and the poverty of negritude that comes with the poverty of living with y’all."
-"Fuck an Obama!"
I know you want to, but...
1) Obama has better taste in women.
2) Michelle would whip your sorry ass.
Please take your meds and go away.
Reading this posting and I can't help be reminded of a debate I had several years ago, not long after 9/11 and just after Israel had begun massive preemptive bombings and bulldozing towns in Palestine.
There were a group a Jews (Zionist) who were practically screaming at the audacity that there were people and other Jews that protested against Israel's actions. I recall one person particularly because I had asked him, do you feel that a nation has the right to TAKE another counties lands, resources and quality of life because they can or because some Higher Power deemed it so? And his response was this:
"What we do is Israel is no different than what America did to the Indians. The Indians got what they deserve and are who they are because they are conquered people. If GOD wanted them to have the land, they would not be conquered, and that is what we are doing in Israel taking what is ours."
Apply that to the BIG PICTURE that is America and you begin to understand than the state of an emerging global consciousness is to do what was done to them, can and will be done back OTHERS.
[quote]I think caty greenglen and c...feedback is the same person :)[/quote]
NOPE.
You have it wrong....just like with a good portion of your policy positions.
Obama is sexist and sexism is the only real societal problem there is.
People always want to talk about poor little black Obama, well what about hard-working middle class Hilary?
-catty
i don't even know where to begin with this.you honestly cant be a real person, and if you're here shilling for hillary, you're damaging her more than helping her. how exactly can someone worth over $100 million be middle class? racism is an 'unreal' societal problem? inequity in health care? poverty? the prison system? our fucking economy? i know who you are, catty. you sound exactly as crazy as the bitch suing michael jordan. look for her blog, and see where you're headed (pun fully intended). go to obama's website and read his fucking platform. the shit's deep. just today one of clinton's cabinet members (and a hillary friend for over 40 years) decided to support obama because he can't stand the way she's running her negative campaign. god, you're even worse than HER. and that's a bad thing, sweetie.
Well, the shining prince is flipping Hilary off in this new video that's on youtube. What do you have to say about that?
Flipping someone off is a sexist act. What do you think that middle finger symbolizes? Hilary is so pure and good. She has been running this campaign with dignity whilst being thrown mudpies of misogyny as she strides forth towards the Presidency with queenly dignity while your precious homeboy is flipping her off. Hilary can't cry, but Osama...uh Obama can flip her off with his stiff, long, brown, cafe au latte-colored finger!
The cad!
Ok, this freak has got to be fake, no person in the post-Fanon era can be this mentally colonized! At first I thought it was one of FN's older regulars; the one who 'quit' reading this blog but no, this person has got to be made up.
Great comic relief, though. Better than even ConstructiveFeedback.
This is an awesometacular post! I'm sharing it with many people. I know a young Black woman who kept asking me all these questions about Wright, what he said, on and on. Then she slipped and said "Sean Hannity said..." Ahhh...
Catty
If you were really a black female, you would know exactly what the gesture was.
You would also know that black folks don't flip the bird or even refer to it as flipping the bird - they simply say fuck you.
Filed,
I agree with some of what the Rev. Wright said, especially about supporting terrorism against black south Africans, mostly from Republicans and people like Dick Cheney who voted against a resolution to demand the release of Nelson Mandela. But his comment about "nuking far more people in Japan" I would say so? Does the Rev. feel for his thousands of fellow US service members who were tortured and killed by the Japenese as prisoners of war? Japan was engaged in ethnic genocide all over Asian and was responsible for the deaths of millions and the destruction of entire countries. We killed far more Germans in fire bombing than we did Japenese, MILLIONS of men, women and children were killed in German cities, civilians. Why no remorse for them? Becuase they were white? If we had no problem killin those white folks, why have a problem killing more civilans in japan?
Hey.... I feel a bit sheepish about posting, but I feel it is just too important to not. You can make phone calls and demand an investigation.... Jody
Date: Apr 17, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: protestors injured/arrested.
Please REPOST!
Body: protestors injured/arrested repost
Body: Apr 16, 2008 11:42 AM
Subject: Important News about Indian Country
Body: Illegal arrests at protest on Native lands-repost please!
From: Hand Of Grandfather
Date: Apr 16, 2008 11:38 AM
South Dakota: Native Anti-Hog Farm protest attacked by Police
There is a protest going on right now as we speak in Marty, South Dakota
home of the Ihanktowan aka Yankton Sioux
There have been multiple
arrests, including minors, as protesters seek to block front loader
bulldozers from breaking ground on a new pig farm that will be occupied by thousands of pigs and their waste near a Head Start Program filled with Native children
A man was struck by the metal scoop of the front loader (which is used to excavate tons of dirt) and was medically evacuated by ambulance
State Troopers have violated their jurisdiction by arresting protesters on a BIA controlled road which is considered Federal land and therefore off limits to State Agencies and Law Enforcement
It was said that the arrests of the minors and others were conducted illegally by the State Police on the Federal Road and they were escorted to State Land nearby to receive their citations and were released
South Dakota Highway Patrol have informed the Officers that they are in fact in violation of their jurisdiction as this is being written and being told to stand down and not to detain any more protesters
Dakota, Lakota and Nakota and other Native Activists including a AIM chapter are mobilizing to this spot to support and join their Indigenous Families to protect their Native children and community from this gross violation of Tribal Sovereignty and Basic Human Rights
One Land, One People, One Struggle!!
Mitakuye Oyasin!
Please stay tuned for updates and calls for support
For more info: keyawitko2676@yahoo.com
All e-mails will be forwarded to parties involved in today's protest
Corporate News Updates on protest
http://www.
argusleader. com/apps/pbcs.
dll/article?AID=/20080415/UPDATES/80415043/1052/OPINION01
Background story from corporate source: http://www.
siouxcityjournal. com/articles/2008/04/15/news/south_dakota/eaf35552976e6d758625742c0013349c.
"Catty"s writing and theorys are very simlilar to E.Kitty Glendower,
http://egarooo.blogspot.com/.
The similarity is astounding.
Ms.Martin: I had to come back and give you Propers .... You got me laughing my ass off and you are so TRUE.
It's a Black Thang
Classical One: Just a matter of Historical Note, the amount of Plutonium used in bombing Japan was only a small amount. if I am not mistaken, only less than 10% triggered the detonation. If the other 90% or so had been ignited, the destruction would have been 100's of times greater than it was. Which is why America dropped a second bomb made with Uranium after Japan has surrendered.
Just a thought.
@ Kathy,
But while the similarities are there, Catty comes off a little more on the extreme side. But Kitty does seem to have a serious issue with Obama and
politics seem very far away from what her issues are with him.
I had the pleasure of seeing Tim Wise in person here in Kansas. He should be your honorary field negro at least once.
EVD
Thanks for posting this! I remember when his first book on white priviledge came out. So...when are you gonna make the Rev. a field negro of the week or something? Or did you do that already? He's one of my favorite preachers. Thanks for posting his pic, I've always wondered what he looked like as a young man because he talks about being very angry when he came home from the war and that he stopped going to church, gotta divorce, etc. Anyway, he's a facinating person and so is Tim Wise.
@Brothercomrade,
Catty sounds like Kitty, only more.
She just commented on an anti-Obama site that I won't mention because I don't want to give them any traffic, but they recently commented here too, in a post from a few days ago. I wouldn't recommend that site unless you are able to stomach a bad joke.
I have written my own two cents on the subject of Obama's "bitterness" statement.
http://tiny.cc/r5mf4
Why can't a man say something without the media tearing it apart. What the reverend said was also true.
And why can't white america deal with self evident truths? The answer to that I may never know.
-=t=-
Kathy, would this site have to do with southern women calling themselves Guerrillas?
Oh wow, I just found the site. This is worse than Tennessee Guerrilla Women or what I liked to call, the Daughters of the Confederacy, these are staright up pin-lapel-lovin', flag wavin', closeted Leiberman types and of course, you have to two most self-hating PoC on there. seriously, I would never vote for Obama, but to go there that he's in league with Islamists smacks of reactionary wing-nuttery. The thing is catty already made her slip with "Osama" when writing Obama's name, she really is parroting the words of right-wingers here, but then these people really are the pro-corpratist, pro-war, Republicrats that the Clintons eptomize anyway.
classical one said... Why no remorse for them? Becuase they were white?
Classical, you're trying really hard to cast Rev. Wright as caring only about people of color.
You have to take a closer look at why you're doing that, and to what purpose. *sigh*
Hey Field great post as usual. Tim
Wise hit the nail on the head. I think I added to the clarity with my piece entititled " Sacred Cows, Black Jesus and Civil Religion" on wwww.blackagendareport.com ltwo weeks ago and alternet.org reran it as, "IN defense of Rev. Wright".
I think I went where Tim was going I hope folks can check it out it got alot of conversation going on a few websites.
Thanks again for the post Field and I usually don't self promote but I did a lot of research for that commentary and a lot of folks told me that they found it educational so I wanted to bring it to the real sharp folks over here on the plantation.
"
OBAMA OPENS UP HUGE NATIONAL LEAD OVER THE BORG QUEEN
Despite her campaign’s relentless attacks on Barack Obama’s qualifications and electability, Hillary Clinton has lost a lot of ground with Democratic voters nationwide going into Tuesday’s critical primary in Pennsylvania, a new NEWSWEEK poll shows.
The survey of 1,209 registered voters found that Obama now leads Clinton by nearly 20 points.
54 percent of registered Democrats prefer Obama to 35 percent for Clinton.
One of the more devastating results for Clinton was that a majority of all registered voters now see her as dishonest and untrustworthy. According to the poll, just 4-in-10 (41 percent) registered voters view the New York senator as honest and trustworthy, while 51 view her as dishonest.
The thing about Polls are (and it appears people since the whole primaries have begun just don't get it) are not accurate. Nor do people even know or ask; Who is polled, who financially backs the organization doing the polling, what is the actual background of the polls, and if the numbers are/were cherry picked over to sway interest in a point. Polls have more in common with the tricks of advertising and marketing than actual science.
I just read today that Obama's National Lead just dropped down to 3% ahead of Clinton. So whose numbers are correct? I guess since i come from a research/engineering background, REAL NUMBERS mean more than estimates.
"classical one said... Why no remorse for them? Becuase they were white?
Classical, you're trying really hard to cast Rev. Wright as caring only about people of color.
You have to take a closer look at why you're doing that, and to what purpose. *sigh*"
Why? Becuase I pointed out that his argument does not make much sense? I dont' disagree with everything he said in that speech at all, but some points were dead wrong.
BUT .... what about my point about the US failed attempt to do more collateral to Japan with both a Nuclear and Atomic Bomb than they did?
Does the fact that it didn't happen negate the actual numbers desired?
Shazza,
If we had to invade mainland Japan, we would have flattened the whole country and thousands more of our own troops would have died. Dropping the atomic bombs and ending the war quickly was the best option. If we would have done to Japan what we did to Germany, that is completely bomb every city into rubble while we invaded at the same time, even more Japenese would have died. The Soviets were itching to invade northern Japan as well and that would have been even more carnage and the spread of Soviet influence in Japan. I'm not saying feel soory for millions of dead Germans, I'm not, just don't feel sorry for the Japenese either. If that first bomb would have blown bigger there would be no need to drop the second.
Check your History, Japan had already surrendered. And even if you look the the skewed version of the events, you still have to ask the question,
Why drop the second Bomb?
The second bomb is a warning to Stalin, mess with us after the war and this is your fate. And that was a message he heeded.
The larger point is though, nobody cares about the Japenese part, it was the rest of his speech, which was blown out of porportion for the most part, but why exactly were they taping this sermon in the first piece? They probably should have destroyed this tape when they found out Obama was running for president.
That was not the case. The US decision to drop the second bomb was a military decision to see if it worked as well as the first. The first bomb was Plutonium and the second was Uranium. It had nothing to do with sending a message since the American had already proven than WE had the bomb first.
The decision and reasons are a matter of public record where anyone can easily research it.
It is in the revisionist History of the US and how Americans do not question it is why Black, Native American and Foreign Nations taken advantage of by the US have issues when we don't know or even care to know the truth.
@classical one:
Why? Becuase I pointed out that his argument does not make much sense? I dont' disagree with everything he said in that speech at all, but some points were dead wrong.
Frankly, your argument doesn't make sense. His points were right on as far as they went.
Obviously for you they didn't go far enough.
Since he didn't list all the atrocities of war, you somehow suggest that he values the lives of people of color more than white.
Stick to the script!
I say you got some deep-seated issues with regard to matters of ethnicity and race.
the thing is america does not ever consider the devastation of it's bombing campaigns. we have pow mia flags all over the place on governmental monuments and buildings. there is one over the arch in grand army plaza and another flies on the flag pole of the verrezanno bridge. it proclaims our suffering in a war we inflicted on a nation of peasants who died by the millions under a decade long rain of good old american bombs. but we never acknowledge their monumental suffering with shame, regret, or misgiving. recently we have destroyed at least three iraqi cities. most notably the city of fallujah. what did they do to us to deserve the levelling of their city? america is a tribal warrior like any other nationality. we good, they bad. our dead matter, theirs don't.
Since he didn't list all the atrocities of war, you somehow suggest that he values the lives of people of color more than white.
You miss my point, I don't consider the bombing of Japan an atrocity. But he was right about 911, it was blowback, we should not have been sticking our noses where they did not belong.
That was not the case. The US decision to drop the second bomb was a military decision to see if it worked as well as the first. The first bomb was Plutonium and the second was Uranium. It had nothing to do with sending a message since the American had already proven than WE had the bomb first
Your right about them wanting to test the second bomb, but your wrong if you don't think it was a message to Stalin. It said, we have the bomb and we will use it and be as ruthless as your are and it left Stalin to think twice.
Blacks and native americans have very good reasons to be pissed with the U.S., I won't argue with you there.
recently we have destroyed at least three iraqi cities. most notably the city of fallujah. what did they do to us to deserve the levelling of their city?
Nothing, the Iraq War is pointless in every way a war can be, the same with the Vietnam war.
No one said that Black and Brown lives were worth more than White lives because all life is precious. It is when the Western World, through policy ... ignore the lives of People of Color over White Lives (and i am going to speak for myself when I say this) I have more of a personal connection and interest since I know -- through Western policy and experience, they will not get the same respect, honor and dignity as White Lives.
ignore the lives of People of Color over White Lives (and i am going to speak for myself when I say this) I have more of a personal connection and interest since I know -- through Western policy and experience, they will not get the same respect, honor and dignity as White Lives.
Very good point.
classical one said... I'm not saying feel soory for millions of dead Germans, I'm not, just don't feel sorry for the Japenese either.
Friend, are you listening to yourself?
I regret the loss of any life, especially the loss of innocent life (those that aren't shooting at me).
War behaves indiscriminately, killing the good with the bad--hence the horror of any war.
In war all of humankind become the victim, and it reflects poorly on everyone--it shows just how far we have yet to travel to be considered highly evolved beings.
"When the bell tolls..." should be your compassionate, and human response.
@classical one: You miss my point, I don't consider the bombing of Japan an atrocity.
Did I?
See my 7:34 PM post
Shonufed,
Don't start a world war you can't win.
On Tim Wise: I have had a couple of email discussions with him, one in 2004 and one not long ago. I have been severely disappointed by his defensiveness and lack of capacity or willingness to do any sort of real critical self-reflection about real complexities in what he does and how he does it.
I posted some details and reflections about the conversations on this wordpress blog here
I haven't posted this link anywhere that I read/lurk til now, though someone else posted the link in a livejournal community discussion a few weeks ago.
Myself, I haven't wanted to get into it too much, until now (and even now I'm kind of cringing to post this comment and link). Because it seems likely to me that the defensiveness and lack of critical self-reflection maybe doesn't matter significantly to anyone but me. I know that what's important to me is not really too important to many other people.
And I know how much everyone seems to love this man's writing. But he is all over the place these days getting all sorts of attention and kudos and I can't barely read anything in interesting places without his name coming up at some point. It's finally too exhausting to me to keep reading and not say anything about these conversations.
kathy said...
@Brothercomrade,
Catty sounds like Kitty, only more.
She just commented on an anti-Obama site that I won't mention because I don't want to give them any traffic, but they recently commented here too, in a post from a few days ago. I wouldn't recommend that site unless you are able to stomach a bad joke.
Kathy what is it with you and Brokekonman? Why can’t either of you get off my tit. I run both of you away from my blog and you both come over here to talk shit. Newsflash, you dumb ass. Catty broke a few rules that I would never break, ever. Rule number one, regardless of how broke, depressed, pathological some members of a black community are, one never, NEVER talks about taking medicine or seeing a therapy, it is taboo. Duh, black community 101. We all know black folks will talk about its a jungle out here but it is a sign of weakness to admit one needs help and definitely a sign of weakness to use prescription drugs for depression, anxiety, etc. Illegal recreational type drugs are at times excusable however.
Second, my daddy always worked and if he cheated on my mother it was so damn stealthy that no one knew about it. My father went out of his way to eliminate sex as a role to determine who we became out of the equation. And there ain’t da amn thing about my father that reminds me of Obama.
I’m sorry that you two fools cannot imagine that someone can dislike Obama. I think the man is a fraud. Plain and simple. I think he is inexperience. Which leads me to Catty’s second mistake, she made a mistake coming into an Obama loving echo chamber complaining about Obama.
So the next time you two little whiny fools want to talk shit about me, you got my email. Okay. So get off my got damn tit.
But it has been common knowledge that there are people who just cannot get me out of their minds, so maybe you just can’t help yourself. If it is an infliction, then I recommend seeking help. Like yesterday.
classical one said...
Shonufded,
Don't start a world war you can't win.
7:53 PM
Now we know all we need to know.
Also I have a great sense of humour.
But it has been common knowledge that there are people who just cannot get me out of their minds, so maybe you just can’t help yourself. If it is an infliction, then I recommend seeking help. Like yesterday.
Hey, we're afflicted with love over here, and, yes, you're memorable.
We love you over here, and we love you over there.
You're right: we need help.
If I validate your existence, will you two (Kathy and Brokekonman) obsess fans stop obsessing over me and get off my tit? You two are really a barrel of laughs, honestly. Running around the net, searching for where I comment, saying I am so and so all so you can satisfy your need to I don’t know what. Well I have not tried this method before to get rid of obsess fans so here goes. A song that includes you among us beautiful losers. Now shoo...
Have you ever wanted
To be someone you're not
But you look into the world
And you see what you've got
There's nothing there
But brains and guts
Finally open the door
And then it shuts
Look to the center
And I think you'll find
The people that are gettin'
They are blind
You changed the channel
And there's nothing there
You weren't born pretty
And it isn't fair...
Here's to the losers
The substance abusers
To the rejects
All the imperfects
'Cause I think we're beautiful
'Cause I think we're beautiful
'Cause I think we're beautiful
No matter what anyone says
I think we're beautiful
Them most beautiful
In the world
You try for jobs
But they say you're strange
You're sportin' a style
That they call pain
So you get in trouble
And your brain is gone
You're cryin' out man
But the words are wrong
Here's to the losers
The substance abusers
To the rejects
All the imperfects
'Cause I think we're beautiful
'Cause I think we're beautiful
'Cause I think we're beautiful
No matter what anyone says
I think we're beautiful
Them most beautiful
In the world
I know you're tired
Of being put down
And all the crap that's said in town
But you're the person that matters most
I raise my glass, and make a toast
This one's for the losers
Substance abusers
To the rejects
All the imperfects
To the retarded
And the broken-hearted
To the starving massses
And the lower classes
'Cause I think we're beautiful
'Cause I think we're beautiful
'Cause I think we're beautiful
No matter what anyone else says
I think we're beautiful
See/hear video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7TvTaSpP-o
Now in case you missed the message, let me say it slowly....
Get.........Off........My.....Tit, Kathy and Brokekonman.........
Hey y'all. Fuck the troll. I've got some GREAT news to share. Hillary Clinton probably lost the Democratic nomination, and most definitely the presidency. She dissed MoveOn.org and all of us grassroots supporters.
Read about it here
I also "gloated" about it on a certain someone's blog. HINT: A Clinton campaign staffer wanted direct input for her campaign. I told him something like "Don't worry about it. You're not going to win anyway" (evil grin)
LMAO about the Moveon.org story..I don't think it matters to anyone but junkies like us, but it only cements that they'll be after her like White on rice.
CF is NOT Catty. CF is distinctive, and CF has a few alias', but the writing is the same, and that's not CF.
Don't know who Catty is.
Damn Field, yer gittin popular out here in the blog world. . . 70* comments per post!
Don't forget us nobodies who linked you back when you were just a nobody too.
HAR!
Let's make that 71 segacioushillbilly. Just to say thanks to everyone posting. Kitty that was actually pretty good :)
classical one...
First off, the United States deliberately provoked the war with Japan.
Second, Japan was about to surrender when the a-bomb was dropped.
Third, they could have dropped the first bomb in an area that was not populated in order to demonstrate it's effectiveness.
Forth, how many "millions of Germans" were killed in the bombings in WW2? Besides Dresden and Hamburg, the actual damage delivered was relatively small. The vast majority of Germans who died were members of the Wehrmacht. Around 9 million or so.
Fifth, the US-Japanese War was considered a race war by the American government and establishment against an inferior "race". Look up the propaganda at the time.
Sixth, the war against the Nazis was never considered a war against sub-humans, but as a regular internecine (civil) war among Europeans and their ideologies.
Seventh, the total American dead in the Pacific Theater numbered around 50,000. That's fifty thousand in a period of four years (Dec 1941 to Aug 1945). In Europe American Dead numbered around 250,000 most of which died in a ten month period (June 6, 1944 - May 8, 1945). This in addition to the millions of US allied soldiers - Russians (20 million soldiers alone), British, Free French, Poles, and civilians: Gypsies, and Jews, etc who were plowed under by the Nazi war machine. Moreover, the US and her allies expected the Germans to continue the war in the "Alps redoubt" for many years to come and had planned for the possibility of hundreds of thousands of American casualties. Nonetheless no preparations were made to drop an a-bomb on the German civilian population as far as I know.
"Hey y'all. Fuck the troll."
I should take your advice, Cali.
Getting on Kitty is like poking at a wounded animal.
But I gotta say a few things...Warrior Soul? It was bad enough reading fucking Blues Traveler lyrics on AROOO, but Warrior Soul? Seriously Kitty, if you're gonna pick metal let it be real metal like D-Fe, or Slayer and not some crappy White Snake knock-off. Please.
Yuck.
All that other stuff, I'm ignoring, I don't know what your beef is with Kathy, but it doesn't seem sisterly. However I will be adding her to my blogroll.
Poor Kitty.
Michael Foster...thanks for your comment. Particularly this one, "US-Japanese War was considered a race war by the American government and establishment against an inferior "race." The term "Japs" was not a term of endearment. Here's a short example of those propaganda clips:
http://www.history.com/media.do?action=clip&id=mf1_atomicbombings_63
The idea that the devastation wrought in those heavily-populated cities of innocent civilians in Hiroshima & Nagasaki was somehow heroic and worse deserved, is a sad commentary on American humanity.
Oops, Sorry Michael - I meant Fisher! (Sitting in the dark and typing too fast.)
First off, the United States deliberately provoked the war with Japan.
If Japan wasnt invading everything in sight in Asia we would not have a problem and you could also argue that we provoked the war with Germany as well.
Total number of German civilians killed in WW2
1,600,000
Total number of japenese 580,000
Ending the war
The bomb didn't win it
Dominick Jenkins
Saturday August 6, 2005
The Guardian
The idea that it was militarily necessary to drop the atomic bomb in 1945 is now discredited. The first exhaustive examination of Japanese, Soviet and US archives, by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, confirms the argument that Truman went ahead in order to get Japan to end the war quickly before the Soviet Union came into the Pacific war and demanded a say in Asia.
The use of atomic weapons against Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not provide the US with the free hand it had wanted and has proved disastrous for the world.
It did not bring about surrender. With 62 Japanese cities destroyed by firebombs and napalm, Japan was not overwhelmed by the destruction of one more. The army minister, General Korechika Anami, told the supreme war council that he would fight on. What actually brought about surrender was the combination of the Soviet Union's entry into the war on August 8 and the US decision to let Japan retain the emperor.
....................
Max Hastings, on these pages last week, gave the impression that most of Truman's contemporaries thought he did the right thing. Eisenhower urged Henry Stimson, the secretary of state, not to use the bomb on the basis of his belief "that Japan was already defeated and that the dropping of the atomic bomb was completely unnecessary". Other commanders made similar statements. The men in command and on the ground did not share Hastings's argument that the "inexorable logic of war" meant the US had to drop the bomb.
....................
· Dominick Jenkins is Greenpeace UK's disarmament campaigner and author of The Final Frontier: America, Science and Terror
Too bad Mr, Jenkins knows nothing about Asian history or the end of WWII. The History Channel has been running a documentary for months on the subject.
I'm sure it aired in the UK as well. He should have watched it.
Yes, the US wanted to prevent Stalin from doing in Asia what he did in Europe, that was a legitimate political aim, but since Mr. Jenkins doesn't understand the history of that period, that was only one reason. There were many others.
First of all, there was a coup attempt, after the second bomb, to seize the Emperor
Even after the second atomic bomb attack, disagreement raged within the Japanese government between peace advocates and those who urged continued resistance. An attempted coup by militant extremists failed and on August 14 Japan surrendered unconditionally. In a break with tradition, Emperor Hirohito announced the surrender in a recorded radio message. Japan accepted the terms of the July 26th Potsdam Declaration calling for unconditional surrender, terms which the Japanese had rejected previously. This was the first time the Japanese people had ever heard their emperor's voice, and some Japanese officers committed suicide upon hearing his decision.
Second, 8,000 people were dying a day under Japanese control. It was estimated that if the war lasted another six months, all the POW's would be dead as well. 28 percent had died while in Japanese captivity, four percent in German captivity.
Total number of German civilians killed in WW2
1,600,000
Total number of Japanese 580,000
----
Total number of Africans died during the Middle Passage from Africa to America ..... Unknown?
Total number of Native Americans killed colonizing the Americas .... Unknown?
Total number of Aborigines killed colonizing in Australia?
Total number of Africans killing Africans with Aid and Arms supplied by Western Influence ........
Shazza,
I'm not discounting those events, just defending myself against good ol Fish. It's funny he would defend the Japenese who were engaged in their own race war in the Pacific. I have no problem with you or the accuracy of your point.
I don't understand mg's gripe with Tim Wise. :-?
On ConFeed. He was spamming africanamerica.org too. I guess if he wanted to be less conspicuous, he would change his writing style. But, I guess that's his calling card.
An alternative site for Tim Wise's March 2008 article, if (like me) you prefer simple text*:
http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/NationalLies.html
*If text is too small (as it is for me), {Ctrl-+} increases font size in Firefox. Also doable in MSIE (forget how). Safari is similar to Firefox [{Apple-+}, I think].
"On ConFeed. He was spamming africanamerica.org too. I guess if he wanted to be less conspicuous, he would change his writing style. But, I guess that's his calling card."
ev, that is the best way that I have heard cons....feedback described, "spam."
Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program!
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