Monday, March 09, 2009

To arm or not to arm, that is the question.


I dated this girl once, (a long long time ago, waaaay before Mrs. Field) who wanted to be a school teacher for all the right reasons. Years later when I saw her I asked her if she was teaching, and do you know what she told me? "Field, are you crazy? I want to live past my 40th birthday. These kids out here are way too crazy for me." And as fate would have it, I thought about that girl today while reading the following story in my hometown paper:

"OFFICER MICHAEL Alvaro was in the right place at the right time to stop an armed-robbery on Feb. 25. Sitting in his marked Philadelphia School District SUV on Olney Avenue near Broad Street, Alvaro said, he saw Tyree Pace, 15, approach three male Central High students with a knife and demand: "Give me everything you have."

Alvaro, 31, a school cop since 2001, called for backup, bolted toward Pace and caught him after a brief chase. But Pace, who has an extensive juvenile criminal record, didn't get cuffed without a fight. He spun and swung the knife at the officer, cutting into his bulletproof vest, Alvaro said. Arraignment for Pace was scheduled for this morning, court records show.

With violent assaults on Philadelphia school officers increasing by nearly 20 percent in the last year, the officers and their union are pressing hard for the right to carry guns on the job. School and city officials have balked at that request in the past, and are reluctant to talk about it now.

But Alvaro — who was attacked one block from where city police officer John Pawlowski was gunned down Feb. 13 — is a strong proponent of the idea.

'We're in marked police vehicles, we're in full uniform, but we have no weapon to protect anybody,' said Alvaro, who wrested a gun from a student outside Turner Middle School several years ago.

'Just by them issuing us a bulletproof vest tells us right there that they are putting us in danger,' added Alvaro, a 1996 graduate of Abraham Lincoln High School. Pace was charged as an adult with attempted murder, aggravated assault, possession of a weapon on school property and four other charges, according to court records. At the time of his arrest, Pace was enrolled as a student at Community Education Partners, a school-district disciplinary school managed by a Tennessee company.

'In harm's way every day' The union that represents the 400-officer school police force has for several years lobbied the school district to allow the roughly 100 patrol officers to carry guns. 'We put these guys out in harm's way every day with a vest, and we don't give them the equipment and the training to do the job,' said Michael Lodise, president of the School Police Association of Philadelphia. 'We're going to eventually have a casualty out here, there's no two ways about it with the climate out here today.'

He noted that officers employed by universities in the city have guns, as do SEPTA cops, and that soon guns will be issued to animal-cruelty officers with the Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Philadelphia School District officials declined to comment for this story. They issued a written statement contending that only one assault on a school officer in the last two years involved a weapon.

'These statistics do not justify the arming of Philadelphia school police officers....Furthermore, current Pennsylvania law does not allow the arming of school police officers," the statement said.

But Lodise said that that's not true.' They're wrong when they said that," said Lodise. He said that the state's penal code gives school officers the power to make arrests on school property and the same authority as constables, who are armed.

Michael Race, spokesman for the state Department of Education, said that the Pennsylvania School Code does not address whether school officers can be armed."


Well Michael, we will address it here. I am sure that the smart people who read this blog will have something to say about your little problem. Well, actually, it's a big problem. And I can't blame my ex one bit for giving up on her life long dream. Still, I have to ask myself: can I trust one of these officers with firearms? And just what kind of training would they be getting? They are, after all, around children all day.

Oh wait, did that article say that SPCA officers are going to have guns? You mean to tell me that there is a chance that they could put a cap in Fido's ass? You just wait until the PETA folks and all the pet lovers get a hold of this. There will be hell to pay.


73 comments:

Anonymous said...

Of course they should. What a silly quesiton. I love high school sports and it just sickens me that I have to pass through a metal detector to watch. My oldest son never even went a single game. I went with friends to see the new talent. Granny, these are your people that you defend all the time on this blog. Do something about it!

szpork

Jody said...

Seems to me that wherever there are more guns, there is more violence, regardless of who is holding the gun. My gut instinct is this is a bad idea, especially if there has been only one assault with a weapon in Philly schools in the last 2 years. Frankly, that is miraculous, given all the gun violence every where else in the city. Cops are trained to use deadly force when they pull their weapons. Given that we have already had at least 11 people shot and killed by cops so far this year, (and several of those were highly questionable) I think arming school cops will only add to this number.

On another note.. your picture word association of the day is so wrong, field.

Hathor said...

szpork,
I don't think you can read.

When one opposes racism does not mean one defends thugs. One does defend the young black male who isn't and know that behavior is not always seen and the cue is only the skin color.

dalit said...

Sometimes it seems as if so much effort is put into law enforcement, while underlying issues of city schools and city living conditions are completely ignored. I can attest to firsthand how awful inner city schools were. In my own elementary school, I witnessed physical violence - by teachers - toward students, at least twice, and one of those times it was directed at me, because I spoke too loudly during lunch. And my school was considered one of the better ones, and I had quite a few exceptional teachers.
Poverty combined with a horrible learning environment is excused in the name of low taxes and the "free market", but we still manage to sacrifice 100 guns, 400 bp vests, and the occasional life to fight the results of poverty. The cost of these plus a few police officers' salaries in welfare/unemployment benefits would be more than enough to dissuade hundreds of robberies.

Unrelatedly...FIRST! Unless the time it took me to right that made me lose that position

browngrl77 said...

Sorry Jody but that picture word association is hilarious.LOL.....I know I am destined to hell for saying this, the first thing that popped in my head was " TAKE ME TO THE WATER"....

browngrl77 said...

I graduated from a philadelphia high school, I feel sorry for the students going to school now. I went back for a basketball game, I couldn't tell if I was in a school or the reception for CFCF :(

Miss Profe said...

I may want to re-think that Kevlar vest as a gift for my birthday next month.

Kjen said...

Can we please move away from this whole violence/harm/punishment serve as effective deterants theory?!

Be the biggest dude in the room and you'll find someone who will try you. Have a rep for being a great fighter (all wins, no defeats), and someone will TRY you. Wear a gun, and someone will still TRY YOU!!!

My point? I've realized that if you carry a gun you're more tempted to just cut the b.s. diplomatic attempts and try to get someone else to back down with the "threat" of violence. Trouble is if they don't respond in a way that the person holding the gun THINKS they should respond, that trigger is getting pushed many, many times. Hence, all the "accidental" police shootings we have.

So, um, no. I don't think those that POLICE students should carry weapons.

Soapbubble said...

Hey Field,
Who is the house negro with the cocked eye? I saw him on a news show today and that brother is in serious need of some glasses with prism.

The Angry Independent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Angry Independent said...

Of course they should have guns. I know that Black folks won't like the idea...because it's mostly their kids f----ing up!!

But yes these officers should be armed. And they should also have tasers and Asp...and even pepper spray...so that they have plenty of options to diffuse a situation before there is a need to draw a handgun.

Of course they should get the proper training... large Metro area Police academies already have training programs in place to certify officers at this level... they will either get the training required for Police officers or at a minimum...the training required for armed security (which is still pretty good training in most big academies).

I have been in the same boat as this officer...and it's terrible when you work for an employer that doesn't give a damn about your safety...and blatantly tells you so...esp. in a position that is hazardous to begin with. You have a sick feeling in your stomach every time you go to work...and on every call. It's all about money. The school board also doesn't want to deal with hearing the bull---- from these silly ass parents (assh---s who have been absentee parents for years...but who will all of a sudden crawl out of their holes to protest such a decision). The parents in these big urban school districts are horrible to deal with.... dealing with them is worse than dealing with the kids.

When officers are left open to this kind of danger and they see their employer doesn't care...it leads to all sorts of morale issues which actually creates an even worse situation for them and for those they are supposed to protect. It leads to an "I don't care attitude" where officers don't patrol as aggressively as they should...where they turn their heads on a lot of things..and will decide not to get involved (because why should they bother risking themselves for a job that probably doesn't pay that well...and with bosses who don't back you). Officers will hesitate in all sorts of situations. They will start to just go with the motions to get through their shift.

This also leads to heavy turnover... which like I mentioned...leads to an even worse situation for everyone because experienced officers leave...and you end up with a lot of new folks on staff...and they eventually leave once they see what's going on.

What you end up with (and I suspect this to be the case in Philly) is a force that is treated like an unarmed security guard force...where the officers have absolutely no respect from the thugs, the students, nor the teachers...and they get taunted, teased and disrespected daily. This eventually leads to an almost ineffective force.

beth said...

I'd prefer more officers, not more weaponry, in the schools. Call me crazy, but maybe more coaches and intervention staff, too. But guns are cheaper, and I can't blame the officer for wanting to live.

I don't know the particulars, but I'm guessing that the PA SPCA is arming officers to protect them from the owners who make their dogs vicious, as well as from the dogs. Those are some sick individuals.

I've heard accounts from humane officers who investigate puppymills. They run the risk of getting shot when they get close enough to gather evidence. It's an ugly business.

grinder said...

Give 'em tasers

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Hmmmm... after the shootings at Columbine and Virginia Tech did they hired security with armed weapons to work at those schools for protection?

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

BTW, Hathor:

I just wanted to thank you my dear Sister for pointing out to szpork where I'm coming from because apparently he just doesn't get it.

With that, I'll say good night and may God bless you abundantly my Sister.

Bob said...

That officer was stationed outside the school, on the street, just like a regular cop. What if those students had been assaulted by adults rather than a 15 year old? The age of the assailant is irrelevant. What if he saw a store robbery in progress? An old lady being mugged? He's a cop, not a rent-a-guard.

emptysuit said...

Officers at schools has to be careful, I have been at schools where there are armed officers, it seems like the children dare the officers to do something, and by being minors the offiers, try to use scare tactics, is from what I have witnessed. The officers from what I under stand can only subdue a minor on school property, unless a weapon is involved. Some of these children want to get into fights with officers, and the officers I talk to at the schools are so frustrated with this.

Shady_Grady said...

Yes, they should be armed as long as they are in the schools and the schools are unsafe.

StillaPanther2 said...

Brother Field...(old saying) Never take a knife to a gun fight. The vast majority of police officers never use their guns in the labors of their jobs. The weapon primarily is used as a deterrant. Unfortunately all children have not the guidance of parents and their social/moral skills are not present..therefor people placed in dangerous positions to protect others should have more weapontry than what they may have to face. By the way.. Virginia Tech, as well as most Virginia (my state) colleges have armed police/security forces. This applies to some major/urban community colleges. Columbine is a high school that, prior to the act, did not envision what happened. This officer showed a true act of heroism that very few would have done. Thats a hero-- reacting prior than thinking. Thank the Lord for his survival. PS..Granny, keep defending the downtrodden. These kids are "Made In America". They are the results of us following..... I don't have to tell you... :) and :(

field negro said...

I love granny! :)

browngrl77,let's the help the people;CFCF is one of our local jails.

On this side you have folks like dlit and Kjen, and on the other side you have AI & StilaPanther2. Two sides of a very serious argument, and a discussion (at least here in Philly)that we must have.


Grinder, I considered tasers, but there has been some issues with those as well.

Soapbubble, that would be my man Ron Christie.

Anonymous said...

Zoo chimp 'planned' stone attacks

A male chimpanzee in a Swedish zoo planned hundreds of stone-throwing attacks on zoo visitors, according to researchers.

Keepers at Furuvik Zoo found that the chimp collected and stored stones that he would later use as missiles.

He’s a Palestinian!!!

Geneva Girl said...

The SPCA police may need to "pop a cap into Fido's ass" AND Fido's owner! With all of these crazies running dog fighting rings those officers need guns - and so do school police! If we can't give them guns, give them tasers. They should be able to protect themselves, the teachers and staff, and the other students.

I'm in favor of corporal punishment and shaming of these school thugs. Put them in the stocks in front of their schools. They'll be too embarrassed to misbehave! Sending these kids away to jail just hides them. Embarrass them - and their lazy-behind parents. Put them in the stocks and then force them to wear orange jump suits. It would be cheaper than prison for these idiots.

DuchessDee said...

As a social wkr here in philly, i too am in and out of the schools and in the worst of neighborhoods. I do not carry any weapons of any kind. (many of my coworkers carry mace, spray bottle of bleach, small pocket knives, etc) My husband thinks i am CRAZY!. I have encountered a few situations where it could have been detrimental to me. But i have faith in God to see me home every night. I pray the school police do not receive guns (now a night stick maybe) it will only add fuel to a stack of combustable issues ready to be lite. And i dont think Mayor Nutter will be ready to tackle this mess if a teenager is killed by a school police with a gun.

DuchessDee said...

BTW, I love the OBAMAHOLICS pictures.

Lynne From Brooklyn said...

I have not checked out this blog for a while so I am wondering whether Field made his run since Obama's election victory. Did he make the run? Did anyone see it? Will it ever happen? Just wondering if Field kept his word.

Marc B said...

If the conditions warrant it, they should be armed. The biggest hindrance to arming school police is less anti-gun sentiment than admitting that youth have become so out of control that armed officers may be necessary by all of the community organizers, parents, and administrators.

I remember the good ol' days when the future penitentiary residents were in juvy or dropped out of school by 10th grade.

uptownsteve said...

"Of course they should have guns. I know that Black folks won't like the idea...because it's mostly their kids f----ing up!!"

jackass

What the fug does this have to do with being black?

I bet the kids who Tyree was robbing were black as well.

This is about dealing effectively with thugs.

idiot

nemo said...

Field, I do not think it would be wise to arm school cops. Every one who reads the daily paper or watch the news know what a stray bullet can do to an innocent child.I shudder at the though of a life lost due to a trigger happy school cop. More guns are not the answer.Training on how to thoroughly eliminate a treat is what the school cops should have.

The picture word association
reminds me of the living dead Field. I can think of a few applications to that. Funny. Peace.

Nemo

ch555x said...

Firearms should be the very last resort, but I'd still like them to have AT LEAST a small, caliber revolver locked away for emergencies while back-up arrives. Some of these schools in my neck of the woods have actual police officers patroling the hallways w/ holstered firearms.

Lisa J said...

Arming cops in the schools doesn't seem to be that great of an idea. It seems like it would be too combustible especially, as someone else pointed out, the kids are going to try to push them and unless you have some very psychologically evolved and toghether cops in the schools it might be too easy for them to overract and use that gun.

I have very mixed feelings about cops, they have a hard job and it has to be difficult dealing with so many different people and if you are a good cop you should be able to handle lots of people and to do some "customer service" and I don't think lots of cops get that. I really think that you should only be able to hire a cop if they pass a battery of very difficult psychological tests and profiling and their assignments should be some what based on that. Unfortunately, sometimes the wrong element go into police work for a variety of not so good reasons, for the power, the automatic respect that comes with the uniform, a desire to be judge,jury and executioner when dealing with the public. Also, I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that sometimes, there isn't too much difference between those who become cops and those who become criminals in terms of their psychological profile, which is a combustible mix. If you put someone who is like that into a school with kids, that can get bad quickly.

Prospector said...

Supervising the areas around the schools would be an excellent place to deploy many of the 10,000 who were called on to volunteer. (Have we completely forgotten them?)
These are the fathers, uncles, brothers and cousins and neighbors and family friends of many of these students, who said they were willing to participate in the well being of their neighborhoods. At a time when the new President wants to make money available to the people and is advocating that young brothers finish school, why isn't someone proposing that some of that federal money goes toward enabling these men to better police their (our) own? This IMO would have the multi edged affect of engaging members of the community to act on their own behalf, demonstrating to students that their academic endeavors are important to the community as a whole and the overall result has to lead to the next step whatever that may be.

I don't know why the people are letting the city government get away with trying to police the schools with 400 badly trained, ill equipt officers when they could be accessing thousands of volunteers who are ready and willing to do the same job because they care about their community.

Maybe those 10,000 men need to come together and work toward the election of a government that they can depend on to take them seriously.

human said...

I can't believe they are using this story to say they ought to have guns. If that cop had had a gun, maybe his bulletproof vest wouldn't have gotten nicked by a knife, but that kid would be dead. Count on it. Is that what we want to see here?

rainywalker said...

When my daughter started teaching in San Antonio she had a choice to go to any school in the district and they have some fancy schools down there. So she picks the barrio. Drugs, knifings, beatings, shooting, homeless kids, no food, no electric, one living in a car, high school kids who can't read and write, police all the time and her, the kids and their parents she went to visit got along with the little blonde haired girl.
They respected each other and she even went to court for them so they wouldn't be put in jail. The only thing she gave those kids was respect, caring and a little love. Something they never had in their lives from society.
Am I bragging? No, she was doing her job. There are a few teachers left out there.

browngrl77 said...

If you allow school officers to carry a gun they will get jumped for the gun....sorry field I keep forgetting that people outside philly read your blog, I will keep the acronyms to myself for now on.

lady-Cracker said...

Hi Field and Brown Grl 77,
I googled CFCF and I think it is a band from Canada; which gave an entirely different mental picture. Nice sound.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

They want to arm the police in underpriviledged schools and run them like prisons. In fact, most of them do resemble prisons and are run like one these days. Like browngrl77 said,"I couldn't tell if I was in a school or the reception for CFCF". My only problem with it is that there is always the wrong element that will apply for the job so that they can kill a few minorities kids and get away with it. That's the problem I have with it.

rainywalker:

"The only thing she gave those kids was respect, caring and a little love. Something they never had in their lives from society."

I bet they love your daughter too and think very highly of her. I knew a teacher who was like your daughter and the kids loved her like they did their own mother. They obeyed her too without any problems. Most of her students went on to graduate, get jobs, and go to college, even those that they said were unreachable and beyond help.

You remember the movie "Coach Carter", whelp, I know the real Coach Carter, personally, whose story that movie was based on. I've known him all his life. He loved sports but he refused to let his members participate until they brought their grades up, and the school wanted to fire him behind that. Apparently, the school thought that winning games was more important. I can't begin to tell you what the school felt about the children and their education, it was a disgrace.

Prospector:

I think your idea is a good one.

west coast story said...

I love how folks think that being a cop is supposed to be a suicide mission. This is the like the notion that a cop should only "shoot to wound."

The kids are armed, so too should the cops.

Jody said...

Please read the part where there has only been ONE! incident of a kid with a weapon at school in the past 2 years!!! The kids evidently are NOT armed, at least at school they are not. So, introducing guns here seems to me introducing guns into one of the few places that is not armed to the teeth in this city!! When you consider that there is at least one shooting a day in Philly, and that most of the shooters and those being shot are young men, it really is amazing that schools are gun free zones. Lets keep it that way.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

If I'm reading that article right, Tyree Pace didn't even go to that school, he was enrolled in another school.

"Tyree Pace, 15, approach three male Central High students"

"Pace was enrolled as a student at Community Education Partners, a school-district disciplinary school managed by a Tennessee company"

west coast story said...

The cops are armed in Oakland schools and I'm not aware of the police using kids for target practice. This is just more anti-cop nonsense. Marcus Foster was the former Oakland Unified School District Superintendent who was killed by the SLA for advocating for cops on campus back in the 1970's.

Now, when they talk of cutting back on the cops in schools, there is a lot of protest from the community.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

West Coast:

No one is anti-cop at least I'm not. Some of them serve their community well. But what I am is anti-the-wrong-element applying for the job, you know, the trigger happy ones or those applying for the position who just want to be able to shoot a minority and get away with it.

BTW, I remember the SLA and Marcus Foster incident and that was an entire different era and SLA was on a totally different page. Donald DeFreeze was its only Black member. He had been serving 5-15 years for robbing a prostitute. DeFreeze escaped from prison. He didn't kill Marcus Foster, two other members of the SLA organization, Joseph Remiro and Russell Little did. It wasn't because of Marcus advocating for cops on the campus, it was because Marcus Foster wanted to introduce identification cards into the system, which they felt was a totalitarian and considered him a facist. Their beliefs were very radical political views and somewhat crazy. They were not children in schools. The only thing good that came out of their organization was poor people got free turkeys. Other than that, they really didn't contribute nothing good to society. They, definitely, were not like the Black Panthers who were trying to help and contribute to their community. Nope, SLA were straight up crazy and criminals.

Nah, I agree with Jody on this one. I hesitate on that one, because, lately, it's starting to become a bad habit of police shooting unharmed black males for so-called resisting arrest. Police man-handling and assaulting 15 year old females, and thank you Jesus, he didn't have a gun, because the way he charged that girl like a bull he probably would have unloaded in her.

dalit said...

maybe supporters of this would like officers with guns in there nice little private schools. What kind of message does it send to kids if they are surrounded by armed guards? I'll tell you - it says when I grow up, I'm going to walk around with MY gun and wield MY authority. It trains them to view cops as oppression and not as protective authority.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

dalit:

"It trains them to view cops as oppression and not as protective authority."


Thank you! You expressed what my concerns are.

Anonymous said...

/// Hathor said...

When one opposes racism does not mean one defends thugs. One does defend the young black male who isn't and know that behavior is not always seen and the cue is only the skin color.///

I couldn't agree more.

szpork

Anonymous said...

OK, In little rock high schools an outside contractor must be escorted by a policeman to the room he is going to for his own safety. This cannot be progress. It's not even about guns, it's about culture and the lack of human decency frankly. I think a lot of this goes back to the crack wars in the mid 80s' , if you think that makes me racist, I'm OK with that. African Americans needs stronger families and more freedom, not more entitlements. That's worked so well in the past, hasn't it?

szpork

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

szpork:

What makes you think that black just get entitlements? Then you say it goes back to the crack wars in the 80's, are you sure of that? Or does the violence and escorts needed go back to the 50's when the Little Rock Arkansas Nine were trying to integrate Central High?

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Maybe, in a sense, it would have been better if integration into schools would have never happened. That is if they would have really upheld their end of the bargain and made our schools equal in equipment, schools, supplies, and books. In addition, to letting our own educated teachers teach them and ensuring that our teachers were educated with a quality education as well. Instead of giving us inferior and outdated material to work with. At least then, our children weren't treated as unteachable, beyond help, and criminals. They were treated as human beings and they learned from teachers who understood them.

rikyrah said...

Who is the house negro with the cocked eye? I saw him on a news show today and that brother is in serious need of some glasses with prism.

You must be talking about Shufflin' Sambo All-Star Ron Christie.

ebonyI said...

co-sign with prospector & Dalit

Guns in schools is a terifying idea, no matter who is holding

Lady-Cracker said...

Tuesday -- "He started in his mother's house," Preachers said. "Then he went to Samson and he killed his granny and granddaddy and aunt and uncle. He cleaned his family out."

Working up the gene chain instead of down.

It makes you think about lots of Kevlar protection. There was an article that talked about a bullet resistant backback to give kids something to hide behind as well as Kevlar jackets with hoods for school protection.

When I think about the loosest cannon in my family; I want a Kevlar bathrobe.

The Angry Independent said...

As if having armed police in school will present any more of a danger than what these knuckleheads present to one another outside of the classroom. (508 students shot in Chicago in the past 16 months).

I just don't understand Blacks who say that having safe schools (and that means armed, well trained and well paid officers) is a bad idea. I will never understand that kind of logic. And it's the kind of thinking that always seems to come from Black folks.

In case you haven't noticed... your Black communities are warzones... they are in a full-blown crisis. But having armed officers in school is terrifying????

PLEASE! Give me a break!!!

No, it's terrifying to these negroes, not because there is an armed officer in the school...but because they know that Ahmad won't be able to get away with nonsense anymore and will have to listen to authority.... in other words... parents might be called to school more often to take responsibility for their children's bull---t. That's the real source of the "terror" and "horror".

Right now... school officers all over the Country (esp. those in these Black urban schools who aren't armed) are assaulted on a regular basis....almost at whim.

west coast story said...

Thank AI. Thank you very much. Black people are just reactionary and ridiculous about this.

Cops are not needed in private schools because the troublemakers get thrown out.

Marcus Foster was murdered by the SLA for their mistaken belief that he supported ID cards and cops on campus. I lived here then and I read about it everyday in the paper.

Today, people want ARMED police in the schools because they are such dangerous places for kids. I am not aware of a single incident of a cop shooting a student. I am aware of uprisings in and around Oakland schools that never get reported because I know a couple people who work in the schools and the stories they tell are hair raising.

It's ridiculous that cops aren't needed in some schools. Why are Negroes so afraid of having black youth held accountable for their violent anti social behavior? Seriously, why are you all so invested in this?

Zimbel said...

Why does "arm" mean "give a firearm and train them with it?" I'd think that nightsticks (or a similar weapon) and associated training would be far more useful in most brawls and fights in schools (including ones with knives).

Zimbel said...

@west coast story-

"Cops are not needed in private schools because the troublemakers get thrown out."

is equivalent to:

"Cops are not needed in private schools because they decide to remove any 'problem students', and force them back into the public school system. This is yet another way in which private schools are subsidized by the public school system."

What you're describing is cost-shifting from private schools to public schools, which just causes even more problems for the public schools.

And note that 'problem students' typically doesn't just refer to violent or criminal students - it often refers to those with learning disorders, those with mental disabilities, those with physical disabilities, those from disadvantaged backgrounds, those with a religion, skin color, sexual orientation, or other real or perceived identity that is not under favor...

I'm not going to laud private schools for dumping their problems instead of dealing with them.

Sharon from WI said...

I believe if the police cannot be armed to protect themselves, they should not be assigned to protect the schools.

west coast story said...

I'm not going to laud public schools for making room for kids who are not interested in learning thereby jeopardizing anyone's ability to learn. It is no badge of honor to be a dumping ground. Schools are not supposed to be for babysitting. Sorry, once upon a time kids were expected to perform scholastically in schools. Today, they just perform and negroes have decided that's acceptable.

Today, every problem kid claims to have a medical condition to excuse their rotten behavior. Not that many kids are really ADD, or autistic, or dyslexic. What you have today are REALLY BAD PARENTS who want someone else to raise their kids.

Or for negroes, we've decided every black kid in public school is poor.

Obama stated the other day that he wanted to lengthen the school day. I know that will give negroes a fit because it means DeShawn and Shaniqua will not have as much time to hang out on the street corners.

There are kids who come out of nightmare family situations and all they want to do is make a better life. You have kids who come from two-parent working families and all they want to do is screw up and mom and dad just let them. And the community bends over backwards to make excuses.

A kid in a school with a weapon, whether he is a student there or not, needs to be greeted by an armed police officer who can arrest their anti social backside and march them to jail.

A cop with a nightstick against someone with a knife or worse? Are you serious?

I rail about this locally all the time. You all are not serious about creating safe neighborhoods for youth who can grow up and enjoy a good quality of life. Or you really do not care. Not all bad kids come from crack mamas and poverty. Some need a foot up their butt (I mean that figuratively), waaaaay up their butt.

Why do you insist on making excuses for these fark ups? These are the kids who will be 35 years old and sleeping on someone's couch--living off of their parents, siblings, aunties, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, who cannot manage anything about their life because no one ever had an expectation that they should.

What do you call it? The soft racism of low expectations?

I am carrying on about the the kids but it's the PARENTS who need to be horsewhipped up and down Main Street for being so irresponsible. Quit making excuses for these folks.

We had a group of seven teens who attacked a middle aged man in my neighborhood last year and beat him and robbed him. Two teens were from another city and two were from the Oakland Hills. I raised plenty hell with the DA's office and said it was unconscionable that kids with advantages should be out here being thugs and terrorizing my neighbors. Let them rob and pillage in their own high rent neighborhoods.

So be warned. I'm not letting anyone's kid off because you are the son or daughter of a doctor or a lawyer. I shocked one acquaintence who was wringing her hands over her teenaged son who was hanging out with a rough crowd. She just didn't know what to do, boo hoo. I told her she better keep his butt out of my neighborhood because I wasn't having some privileged (and this little negro IS privileged) brat acting out where I lived. She was really shocked.

I'm not cutting anyone any slack. It's a rough world out here and babying and coddling and making excuses for youth does not prepare them to be responsible adults. You are cheating them out of a decent life by never expecting them to amount to anything and covering for their bad hehavior.

If that means armed police, so be it. That or teach your kids how to act like a person with some sense.

Sharon from WI said...

Zimbel: And note that 'problem students' typically doesn't just refer to violent or criminal students - it often refers to those with learning disorders, those with mental disabilities, those with physical disabilities, those from disadvantaged backgrounds, those with a religion, skin color, sexual orientation, or other real or perceived identity that is not under favor...

While it's true private schools don't have to deal with trouble-makers--attending one is a privilege, not a requirement as is the case with public schools-- they also don't have the special ed and other resources that are available to public schools.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Zimbel:

"What you're describing is cost-shifting from private schools to public schools, which just causes even more problems for the public schools.

And note that 'problem students' typically doesn't just refer to violent or criminal students - it often refers to those with learning disorders, those with mental disabilities, those with physical disabilities, those from disadvantaged backgrounds, those with a religion, skin color, sexual orientation, or other real or perceived identity that is not under favor...

I'm not going to laud private schools for dumping their problems instead of dealing with them."

Thank you Zimble, finally, someone broke it down and spelled out what they consider "undesirable children" and schools wouldn't come out and say in the open, but minorities are aware of and know between themselves.

West Coast:

I lived in Oakland during that time as well on Brookdale Ave. Yup, I stayed there a couple of years when I was younger. Did the newspapers tell you that Patty Hearst was Cinque's (Defreeze) girlfriend and was in on what they planned from the beginning? Oh, I forgot the newspapers said she was brainwashed. LOL!

The newspapers, back then, also, labeled the original Black Panthers a gang. Those Black Panthers had the nerve to be unified and do something for their own black community such as driving and keeping drug dealers and prostitutes out of their neighborhoods. They set up free medical clinics, tutoring centers for kids, breakfast and lunch programs, and a whole lot more. However, according to the newspapers, they were a gang. According to the newspapers, I guess they were recruiting the whole black neighborhood to join their gang. StillaPanther2, Lawd you'se a gangbanger, because the newspapers said it. LOL!

That's just like the Watts Riot, the newspapers made it look like those black folks just went crazy and was rioting and burning down the city for nothing. However, the newspapers, conveniently, left out the parts about what ticked them off was the police beating that mother with a billy club for reprimanding her son, oppression, and a few other things. Yup, black folks cup has runneth over, so to speak.

Newspapers the most reliable source for enforcing institutionalize racism and negative images of blacks in stories that involved black folks. It might be seven or five black onlookers and the newspapers, back then, would make it look like it was a crowd of 500 or more and of course those black savages and animals just go crazy for nothing. Not to mention, the news media looks for the worst, ignorant, and thuggist looking black face to interview for the news in order to enforce the negative opinions of blacks. The only time they showed positive images was in sports and entertainment, because that is how white folks view blacks as entertainment. However, lately, even the black entertainment section is becoming all negative.

*Sigh* And people wonder why the world views us as lazy, criminals, welfare recipients, abusive and negligent parents,and tramps. Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure that out?

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

West Coast:

"every problem kid claims to have a medical condition to excuse their rotten behavior. Not that many kids are really ADD, or autistic, or dyslexic. What you have today are REALLY BAD PARENTS who want someone else to raise their kids."

Is that right? Whelp, I guess the medical profession needs investigating for fraud since they are the ones writing these excuses to show proof of those kids medical conditions.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

LadyCracker:

"When I think about the loosest cannon in my family; I want a Kevlar bathrobe."

At first I laughed at this comment, but then, I couldn't help wondering if your in an abusive relationship.

Lola Gets said...

"...soon guns will be issued to animal-cruelty officers with the Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals."

I am quite sure, Field, that the those guns will be used to shoot humans who are harming animals.
*tongue in cheek*

I dont know where I stand on this issue...I do know that if a cop was almost seriously injured by a knife, he might need some more weapons.

L

Zimbel said...

@west coast story-
"A cop with a nightstick against someone with a knife or worse? Are you serious? "

Yes. The two most common classes of weapons used in schools are body parts (hands, feet, etc.) and hand-held melee weapons (knives, clubs, makeshift variants of both). Someone trained in han-bo, jo, bo, cane, nightstick, ton-fa, or an equivalent weapon should have little difficulty with a largely untrained attacker with one of those weapons. I suggested nightstick simply because it's already a common police weapon.

"Obama stated the other day that he wanted to lengthen the school day."

He did? I missed that. Thanks for the information. That's good.


@Sharon from WI-

Yes, although I don't see that you're saying anything different than I am. At least many of these schools could have these resources (for example, multiple private schools could pool resources for a particular issue); they choose not to - largely because it would cost them money that in their opinion they'd prefer to spend elsewhere (or not raise in the first place).

west coast story said...

Granny: I guess you have more faith in the medical profession than I do. I recommend you read Denis Leary's "Why We Suck."

Also, there is debate about how much of a hostage Hearst was after a period of time but there is no evidence that she collaborated on her kidnapping.

Zimbel: If schools are going to have sworn police assigned to them, they have to be carring guns--period. If you don't want your kid to get shot, then teach him not to try to slice open a police officer.

Black folks are drowning in the River Denial and are the worst enabler of crime and mayhem on the planet. I've also found that middle class black people who live in cozy, clean, and safe neighborhoods are quite comfortable with the idea that those of us who don't should be happy to live in crime ridden filthy environments. Anything else would be blaming the victim or some other stupidity. It's too bad there is no awareness that at least in Oakland, high crime neighborhoods are likely to have a diversity of ethnicities and socio economic levels and not be composed solely of crack mamas and crack babies.

We've been practicing the same smothering love for criminals for a few decades now and guess what, it isn't working. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. If white folks all took off in a space ship for the planet Twylo tomorrow, some negroes would still be slaughtering each other and other negroes would still be defending them and finding something new to blame it on.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

West Coast:

"Granny: I guess you have more faith in the medical profession than I do."

Nope, I don't, in fact, I believe that there is a lot of corruption in the medical field and, especially, pharmaceutical and insurance, which is getting ready to be exposed soon.

I've observed a lot about the medical field that's not kosher. Have you ever noticed when they tell you that you need to be tested and recommend you to another doctor. When you go see the other doctor, they give you the same test the doctor that referred you had given you already. Then they turn around and refer you to another doctor that does the same thing. In hospitals they give you test that you don't need sometimes because that makes for a bigger bill.

Don't get me started on the pharmacy and doctor kickback deals either. Or how they'll leave emergency patients sitting for hours and hours before they see them, while they sit and socialize with other medical staff. Or how they prescribe one medication for you that gives you side affects and have to turn around and give you another one to counteract the first one they gave you,which keeps on going until your on so many different medications that you have get a pill box to keep track of them. Or how some of the pills they give you are not medicine at all, they are fake pills.

Just, recently, a man who lived in this neighborhood for years was in a accident on the freeway. The ambulance transported him there. The medical staff left him sitting for hours before they even went in to see him. He died. His family is suing and they're going to win their case without a doubt, because the ambulance attendants and police are witnesses for the family. It was a clear case of malpractice.

I could go on an on about the medical field and tell you some horror stories about emergency rooms, doctors offices, and people being given the wrong medicine. They don't turn out doctors like they use too. My granny use to tell me that she didn't trust no doctor, whelp, I understand now why she used to say that.

As for Patty, whelp, I can't tell you on here because the computer has ears. So, I'll leave that alone.

Anonymous said...

You get searched for guns in inner city schools you get killed by them in suburban schools!
Americans have proven time & time again that guns arent for the feeble minded[americans/consumers/slaves!home of the greedy land of the slave!
33

Anonymous said...

How come black police never accidentally shoot whites or anyone else for that matter!
Oh i got it thier not racist pigs!

Anonymous said...

How come black police never accidentally shoot whites or anyone else for that matter!
Oh i got it thier not racist pigs!

8:11 AM

You get searched for guns in inner city schools you get killed by them in suburban schools!
Americans have proven time & time again that guns arent for the feeble minded[americans/consumers/slaves!home of the greedy land of the slave!
33

Just like the man said COWARDS!nobody can touch these!

Anonymous said...

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