Monday, March 19, 2018

"Will America ever have a #MeToo-style reckoning for racism?"

 Image result for me too images    The following is an interesting article and exchange on  Vox.com about racism and the #MeToo movement.

"We’re in the middle of a reckoning on the subject of sexual assault and sexual misconduct — especially in the workplace. Abuses long swept under the rug or covered up are being exposed, the perpetrators punished.

But just as women have long endured inappropriate conduct, with no sense that they’d get any justice if they spoke up, so have many people of color. Which led us to wonder: What would a racial “reckoning” in the style of #MeToo look like in our country?

#MeToo is a tough social movement to define, but several overarching themes emerge: Perpetrators of sexual harassment are being called out for specific bad behavior, ranging from very explicit to more subtle forms. People are losing their jobs because of it. There is a cultural conversation happening that involves identifying this behavior, once acceptable (or ignored), as unacceptable. And there is a broader conversation happening about the underlying systems that enable this kind of behavior.

What would a similar movement centered on race look like? What consequences would they suffer? What would it take to make this broader conversation about what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior happen? Vox politics and policy writer Jane Coaston, identities editor Michelle Garcia, and identities writers P.R. Lockhart and German Lopez got together to discuss the challenges of a similar reckoning for acts of racism in America. Here’s their conversation, edited and condensed for clarity.

Jane Coaston

Racists are all too often able to defend themselves by simply claiming that their racism doesn’t count as racism. I think that our history puts the “what counts as racism” bar so high that many believe to fit underneath it renders them “not racist.” “I’ve never burned a cross! I’ve never called anyone a ni**er! I just think that interracial relationships are bad!”

German Lopez

You see that kind of thing with the opposition to taking microaggressions seriously. People really, really don’t like the idea that just making a certain group of people uncomfortable might get them in trouble. They want to be able to get away with it.

Michelle Garcia

Yeah, that’s what worries me about this “politically correct/incorrect” business. For so long people were able to say things, unchecked, that were incredibly racist, or at the very least unkind to other human beings — but being held accountable for those actions is suddenly oh so stifling? Give me a break! Be a human being.

German Lopez

I do think, though, that there is an open question about how exactly you define racism. We see it with #MeToo right now, where it seems pretty clear that unsolicited physical acts and comments are out of bounds, but things get a bit murkier when dealing with, for example, someone who asks a colleague out on a date or misreads a conversation at an after-work party. I’m not sure how these kinds of situations would apply to racial harassment, but there is some gray in here to work through." [Source]

Racism is usually "pretty clear" as well, but we often pretend that it doesn't exist because it makes us uncomfortable. 

Thoughts? 

*Image from cbsnews.com

48 comments:

PilotX said...

When was there ever a time when blah people weren't harrassed in some kind of way? It will never happen.

Anonymous said...

If you're talking about workplace issues, I think the following quote is illustrative:

"I do think, though, that there is an open question about how exactly you define racism. We see it with #MeToo right now, where it seems pretty clear that unsolicited physical acts and comments are out of bounds, but things get a bit murkier when dealing with, for example, someone who asks a colleague out on a date or misreads a conversation at an after-work party."

Bad dating etiquette or making rude jokes are not the same thing as abusing one's seniority to extort sex out of a subordinate. These have gotten lumped together in some cases, which is part of what is wrong with #MeToo. But there is a difference between people being inconsiderate or communicating poorly, and violations of workers' legal rights.

With regards to racism, the stuff that is most obvious is also usually the minor stuff, similar to bad dating etiquette. Hurtful comments by coworkers are hardly a capital crime. "Microaggressions" aren't going to get anyone fired -- particularly since some of them are unintentional, resulting from ignorance, not malice. Often, people say things that are offensive, without even knowing they are offending. And trying to over-police people's speech will probably not make anything better; it will just make everyone angrier and more hostile at work.

The major racism that occurs in the workplace and has quite serious consequences is, unfortunately, usually not obvious. It's the bad stuff you don't see that is most destructive.

If a manager crumples up your resume and chucks it in the trash because you have a "black-sounding" name, you won't know why you didn't get an interview. If a manager denies you a promotion because you're perceived as untrustworthy because you're black, or you're seen as angry and unable to get along with your fellow employees (when, actually, it is your fellow employees who are not making enough effort to get to know you), you won't necessarily know about that either.

So, no, I don't think there will be a #MeToo movement for racism in the workplace, because the worst of this sort of behavior is covert. There isn't an equivalent to the Harvey Weinsteins of the world engaging in flagrantly illegal behavior. There is no racism equivalent to: "I'm a big shot, so fuck me or you're fired." At least not in most workplaces.

Basso e Grasso said...

The race problem is insoluble. The country needs to be partitioned into ethno-states.

dinthebeast said...

I don't think there will be *another* #MeToo moment about race, but to one extent or another we did already have one.

In today's America, not that much attention is paid to what race relations were like, say, pre-1970.

Like the MeToo phenomenon, it was the low-hanging fruit that got dealt with (to the extent it did get dealt with) first, leaving the more complicated, or well hidden aspects of racism intact for others to come along later and try to remedy.

Now we see some of the same sorts of backlash to MeToo that we saw after the civil rights movement: "But wait, I don't say "nigger" in public any more, what else do they want?" then, and
"I don't grab my female coworkers without their consent any more, what else do they want?" now.
As for the former, that question was addressed in part more than fifty years ago:

"There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, “When will you be satisfied?” We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied, as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro’s basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their selfhood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating “For Whites Only”. We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream."

As for the latter, I'm a man, so I have no real authority to say, but my best guess would be that they want some respect, dignity, and human decency.

-Doug in Oakland

Faith_and_Fairness said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Faith_and_Fairness said...

Sad to opine America seems, at this time, unwilling to have a #MeToo-style reckoning for racism.

As was the case with other thought-provoking conversations, an agreement could not be reached to establish a commission to review the feasibility of reparations to redress the lingering impact of policies hundreds of years in the making from slavery to Jim Crow to what is now mass incarceration.

How about the counter-narrative regarding Black Lives Matter. Law enforcement rooted in upholding human decency afforded to all lives, including black lives and people of color.

Consider those athletes respectfully kneeling during the national anthem. The misinformation that these athletes were disrespecting America and the brave men and women who safeguard our nation’s liberty and freedom was a huge disservice.

Of course, lost in this commentary was the athletes and countless activists are displaying their love of America by advocating for our brothers, sisters and children not afforded the same chance for liberty and freedom, instead having their lives not matter when encountering rogue policing.

Further consider the Florida white nationalist teaching in the schools and revealing via her blog that extremists are infiltrating every segment of our society.

Even trolls and bots have unequivocally exclaimed time and again since the "overt" forms of racism no longer exist, no need to take it seriously.

Yet irony is the KKK hood has been replaced with fake smiles while shaking the hands of a gullible electorate who will ensure extreme lawmakers can rollback all policies enacted for the betterment of every citizen.

Faith_and_Fairness said...

To be clear about BLM counterpoint, which suggested the movement was saying “only black lives matter,” it defies logic that any activist in good conscience would want any unarmed citizen to be subjected to the kind of unreasonable, degrading force resulting in that citizen’s death. For these unarmed encounters, justice with mercy matters for every life, including black lives.

Anonymous said...

> which suggested the movement was saying “only black lives matter,”

That's not "suggested".  That's PROVEN by the angry backlash at any suggestion that ALL lives matter.

Wonder why nobody believes your shit?  Wonder no more.

mike from iowa said...

Stoopid fucking wingnuts are gullible, fucking morons. They have been led to believe they are the victims of racism and that they, personally, have to pay taxes to support all those blacks getting all tnat free stuff.

As for defining racism, do not let stoopid fucking wasicu wasteys do the defining. By the time they get done whitey will be up on a pedestal of kristian virtue that no one else can attain.

mike from iowa said...

Consider those athletes respectfully kneeling during the national anthem. The misinformation that these athletes were disrespecting America and the brave men and women who safeguard our nation’s liberty and freedom was a huge disservice.

Disservice it was not. It was a typical stoopid fucking wingnut blatant lie wrapped in the red, white and blue to give the wasicu racists cover from being called racists.

mike from iowa said...

'Nother school shooting. This time in Maryland with at least 7 injured. This does get tedious.

Puerto Rican food looks, smells, and tastes like shit said...

Any #metoo movement for racism should flourish in this era of tr**p. He and his ugly supporters think they can "win back" America, but the anti-racism movement will be too much for their pea-sized brains to handle.

Lance Cockstrong said...

If only we could get micro dick white boys to actually admit that much of their anti-black hatred and racism comes from penis envy.

mike from iowa said...

Few days ago, someone said the FIU bridge collapse was the fault of MCM, a company ran by woman as the culprits. Blatant lie, blatant sexism.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-all-female-responsible-bridge-collapse/

White feminists are retarded cunts said...

Anti-racism and feminist movements are often started or hijacked by ignoble people.

Lilacpr said...

mike from iowa said...

'Nother school shooting. This time in Maryland with at least 7 injured. This does get tedious.

9:10 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems as though the prisons in the US are safer and more secure than the schools! What a problem!

mike from iowa said...

Parkland school shooter's brother was arrested for trespassing in Parkland school. Must run in the family.

mike from iowa said...

Last weekend two guys were sitting in a car in the parking lot of the International Sportsmen’s Expo in Utah.

You know what happens next.

One of the men was handing the firearm to the other man when the weapon was accidentally fired.

The bullet struck one man in the hand, ricocheted and then struck the second man in the leg.

The police say it was an accident so no charges will be filed. Had they shot a toddler walking by outside the car … oh well, accidents happen.

mike from iowa said...

Here is a first, I believe, for racist South Dakota-

http://dakotafreepress.com/2018/03/18/national-anthem-sung-in-lakota-at-boys-state-a-tourney/

Couple years ago, Lakota students at a high school wanted to offer traditional Indian prayer at graduation and the townies freaked out.

Paradoctor said...

I am underwhelmed by #MeToo's hitlist. Whom has it taken down? Some Hollywood scumbags, Al Franken and Roy Moore. I'll give #MeToo some credit for defeating Moore, but much more credit to the African-American community, for organizing and voting. And I call Franken's banishment an own goal.

#MeToo's biggest complaint is Trump, who is still in power. I guess that when he does go down, it'll have less to do with #MeToo than with Robert Mueller and Stormy Daniels.

Anonymous said...

How will we know that an anti-racist #MeToo is successful? Since so much racism is private and covert.

Proud Chinese-American said...

Black people whine 24/7 about racism (most of it petty), so why does it even matter?


See more at:
bigwowo.com
reddit.com/r/aznidentity

Carbon said...

The white race is a disease.

anotherbozo said...

I still like Andrew Hacker's idea that if you're born in the U.S. and you're white, you're ipso facto racist. That's the default setting. Because the country is racist. You're swimming in racism. This is tough to realize, because it takes real introspection and a willingness to admit the extent to which you're a social product.

More recently than I care to admit, I realized that I unconsciously felt superior to black American because they were the descendants of slaves and I wasn't. Even if they were born rich to accomplished parents, they still had that inheritance and I didn't. Did I feel that way about Obama, heir to a free African heritage? Well, his father was born poor in Kenya. Mandela, whose father was a chief? Well, both Obama and Mandela had recent ancestors who probably wore skimpy animal skins and threw sticks at wild animals...

Once you examine the shallowness of your unconscious value judgments you can start cleaning up, but until then, I think, there won't be a quickie #Me Too movement for racism.

But I'm an old fart. What about the latest white generation, kids who more impressed with P. Diddy and Russell Simmons and all their attainment and wealth, and whose faint knowledge of slavery or Jim Crow might as well have come from fairy tales? And now, at least in New York, there are so many biracial kids running around as to put the lie to any clear boundaries. We may not shed racism so much as outgrow it.

Anonymous said...

Fuck the gooks and chinks!

Anonymous said...

Wont happen

Anonymous said...

Carbon said...
The white race is a disease.
1:07 PM

You have your answer Field. Liberal mental illness will never suppress the truth.

Anonymous said...

The police say it was an accident so no charges will be filed. Had they shot a toddler walking by outside the car … oh well, accidents happen.
11:02 AM

Same thing happens in the ghetto X100 and same net result.

Anonymous said...

"Will America ever have a #MeToo-style reckoning for niggers?"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Fuck the gooks and chinks!
2:46 PM

Why? They feed and clothe negroes and other have nots???

dinthebeast said...

"We may not shed racism so much as outgrow it."

Yup. It's just taking way longer than a supposedly intelligent society should take to overcome a garden variety pathology, which may be embarrassing, but nonetheless real.
We're majority-minority below about first grade.
That's less than twelve years before they can vote.
I'm old, but I'll probably live to see that.

-Doug in Oakland

Tucker Carlson said...

White conservative fuckboys whine 24/7 about racism (most of it petty), so why does it even matter?

Fucker Carlson said...

Whaaaaaa whaaaaaa whaaaaaa, it's sooooooooo hard to be white! Even the black rhino has more rights than native born whites.

*an actual quote

Anonymous said...

https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/alt-right-collapsing-powerful-conservatives-are-mainstreaming-its-ideas

Lance Cockstrong said...

Not having experienced either one, I will defer to those who have. Comparatively speaking I would speculate that the similarity begins and ends with the fact that in both cases there is a spectrum of behavior and where to draw the line is debatable as Ms. Coaston notes. Beyond that I wouldn't think there is much commonality. Sexual transgression involves a desire on the part of the transgressor for the oppressed party, racism quite the opposite. On the other hand there is a concept of gender roles that is generally accepted by society by both genders, other than a few misanthropic Nazis such a concept does not exist in the racial realm.

mike from iowa said...

Same thing happens in the ghetto X100 and same net result

I wasn't aware Jews were offing each other so regularly.

Anonymous said...

As a woman, I've been feeling some schadenfreude watching men experiencing the self-doubt of wondering if they've acted in sexist, oppressive ways--or angrily defending their sexist behaviors as minor problems. But as a white person, I think the list of micro-aggressions I've committed over the decades is so long that if everyday racism were a firing offense, I'd be in the front lines of the huge crowd of white people leaving the building. I doubt any white person in America would have a job the next day. Suddenly schadenfreude isn't as much fun. What to do? Use my public-speaking ability to talk to other white people about it as much and as often as possible, keep educating myself, what else?

Yīshēng, WAKANDA FOREVER!!!👊🏽👊🏾👊🏿 said...

Me too for racism? That’ll be a hell naw.

But in great Black news, Michelle Obama’s portrait is so popular it had to be moved.👍🏽
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michelle-obama-portrait-moved_us_5ab18658e4b008c9e5f25cc6

Yīshēng, WAKANDA FOREVER!!!👊🏽👊🏾👊🏿 said...

@6:57, 99.99999999 % of the microaggressions I’ve experience in the workplace have come from WW.

And I’ll bet most other highly educated, professional Black women would say the same.

Anonymous said...

Racism is as American as apple pie.

So the answer to the question if America will have a "Me Too" reckoning for racism is ... when Hell freezes over (or when Donald Trump stops being a sociopath--same difference).

Anonymous said...

"I still like Andrew Hacker's idea that if you're born in the U.S. and you're white, you're ipso facto racist. That's the default setting. Because the country is racist. You're swimming in racism."

And you get to assert your moral superiority because you've "overcome" it, right?  Pure SJW virtue-signalling, only an option for you because you have enough isolation from the disasters it causes to lord it over those who don't.

"More recently than I care to admit, I realized that I unconsciously felt superior to black American because they were the descendants of slaves and I wasn't."

Really?  Do you feel superior to Irish Americans?  A whole lot of Irish were dragged here as slaves before the surge that came during the Potato Famine, so anyone of Irish descent might have slave ancestry.

But you prefer to tar them as "ipso facto racist" because they aren't black.  Oh wait, that lets you feel superior to them anyway!  You get the Irish coming and going.

"Even if they were born rich to accomplished parents, they still had that inheritance and I didn't."

If they were born rich to accomplished parents they had every advantage that society could give them, which includes affirmative action and "diversity" preferences and "disparate impact" thumbs on the scale.  This makes them completely responsible for their own failures.

How many failed anyway?  The children of "accomplished black parents" in Shaker Heights OH sucked in school accomplishment compared to the white kids in the same classrooms.  Same everything, except genes and culture.  Here's what African researcher John U. Ogbu found:
=============
Professor Ogbu was invited by black parents in 1997 to examine the district's 5,000 students to figure out why.

''What amazed me is that these kids who come from homes of doctors and lawyers are not thinking like their parents; they don't know how their parents made it,'' Professor Ogbu said in an interview. ''They are looking at rappers in ghettos as their role models, they are looking at entertainers. The parents work two jobs, three jobs, to give their children everything, but they are not guiding their children.''

For example, he said that middle-class black parents in general spent no more time on homework or tracking their children's schooling than poor white parents. And he said that while black students talked in detail about what efforts were needed to get an A and about their desire to achieve, too many nonetheless failed to put forth that effort.
=============
Parents who don't try to foster success and children who idolize rappers instead of doctors can't blame "racism" for aiming themselves at a future in a ghetto.  They have only themselves to blame, and to the extent that the children's inability to understand how their parents made it is due to low IQ, it's DNA all the way down and there is NO cure.

Needless to say, the black parents in Shaker Heights were not happy that Dr. Ogbu assigned them and their children any responsibility for their educational outcomes.  Only an African can do that and not be branded "racist".  The only acceptable verdict under today's CultMarx tyranny is "white people did it and must make more concessions to achieve equality".

The election of Trump can be summarized this way:  "Fuck that noise."

Anonymous said...

The election of Trump can best be summarized this way:

Idiocracy
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

makaii7 said...

Just my two cents, I really think that the MeToo# movement may have started the day after the election 2016 when Hillary was beaten by Mr. Trump in a debacle of an election. Women started remembering how he strutted around the stage at one of the debates and stalked around Hillary and sent such creepy messages out over the airwaves that every women who has been looked down on simply for being female picked up on that look and that stance. The fact that a porn star has him more nervous than the Russian investigation is pure Karma.

Flying Junior said...

Field,

There can never really be a successful #metoo thing for racism. Let me explain why I feel this way. This frightening confluence of the he-man woman-hater's club, the KKK and German and Italian fascism can only spell trouble for just about anything.

I am very happy for the abused women who have finally found a voice and a support network. The Goddess can bless.

But the chingadero trumpy fascistas have already coordinated their counterattack. It fits in neatly with their basic talking point about a victim mentality. The woman-haters are already relentlessly attacking the women who have had the courage to come forward. They defend the men accused of these crimes against females heartlessly and without regard for the truth. They universally condemn the women as either lying or exaggerating. They question why the women waited as long as forty years as if that means anything at all.

The only way to hurt a racist is for them to lose something like their employment, fan base, success & cetera. No one else can touch these mofos. Celebrities will do their damage control. Politicians will hedge and deny, deny, deny. But we really can't prosecute people for being hateful racists.

But if someone wants to start it. I'm all in. Let the chips fall where they may.

Philip Bump said...

Yisheng = nigger

lilac = cunt

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The election of Trump can best be summarized this way:

Idiocracy
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
9:13 PM


No,that movie is a documentary about progressive lefts,libtazis,tide pod eaters

Anonymous said...

According to increasing numbers of White people, there IS a problem with racism--not White racism, mind you--but White people being the *victim* of racism.

In fact, they claim that White people are the victims of "White Genocide" no less! I kid you not.

These claims are being peddled by South African Whites and are mirrored in more subtle forms by EuroFascists and America's very own Alt Reich/Right:

Donald Trump, white victimhood and the South African far-right
https://theconversation.com/donald-trump-white-victimhood-and-the-south-african-far-right-73400

Welcome to the world of Orwellian Whiteness, where Up is Down and White is Black, and 2+2=5.

White Victimhood is all the Rage!

All the cool kids are doing it!

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