Thursday, October 25, 2007

JUST SAY NO!


I was lucky, I was born with a pot to piss in. So when the sell out merchant asked me how much? I was able to look him in the eye and tell him to go fuck himself.


I remember the last time the sell out merchant came. It was about four years ago. "Field, you would make a great [fill in the blank for a city wide elected position here] and the party would love to have you on board. Even if you lose, think of all the business contacts you will make, not only in the city, but in the surrounding counties as well." Yeah, ahh let me think about that big city party official,AKA sell out merchant, and I will get back to you". I hope he didn't hold his breath.


That experience thought me a lot about the sell out merchant; how easy it is for him to get to you, and how sneaky he can be. I bet there were lots of folks who didn't know how to say no to the sell out merchant. Who knows? They may have needed a pot to piss in.


For that pot, they will publicly trash their race every chance they get. They will trash us on television, they will trash us in the newspaper, and they will trash us on the Internet. They will even trash us on their blogs while trying to get their profile up. But unfortunately, with the sell out merchant, there is always a catch. "But Mr. Big city party official, isn't [fill in the other black man here] running for that same seat against [fill in the white candidate here]?" "Ahh yeah field, but that's not why we want you to run, we just think you would be great for the job. "

Oh, so you didn't really want me to run and split the black vote so that your candidate could win the election sell out merchant? Gee, for a minute there I thought you were trying to use me.




Cos has been getting a pass with trashing us for all the world to see, because we know that he has a very big pot to piss in, and he doesn't need the sell out merchant. When Cos puts our dirty laundry out there, it's cool, because he has earned the right to talk about us. Cos has walked the walk. ( I have seen him walking the streets of South West Philly against gun violence, and I have heard stories of his incredible philanthropic work here in Philly) Still, it's time for Cos to shut it down. Enough already! What, he thinks there is that one single mother in the projects with three kids and on welfare who missed his message until she saw him on Oprah?




What I am telling Cos is what I would tell every black conservative pundit, blogger, radio personality, and whatever. We get it! Black people need top pull themselves up. They need to stop with the out of wedlock children. They need to stop with the black on black crime. They need to start trying to build some wealth, and credit. They need to.... I could go on, but most of you reading this already know about the myriad of problems we are facing. But the thing is; you won't be writing about it every day on your blogs, nor will you, instead of trying to actually do something about the problem, be expounding intellectual mumble jumble and playing got ya word games. You understand that the shit is deeper than just sound bites made to please the "man's" ears. You understand the importance of being a good role model, and speaking out against injustice no matter where it comes from. That's telling the sell out merchant, no thanks.




The sell out merchant doesn't want or care about all of that, because he has an agenda, and no matter what some of you might think, you are not a part of it. Your pot can only hold so much piss.














56 comments:

The Angry Independent said...

I have to disagree with you.

I hope "Cos" keeps talking...and keeps agitating. He has kindled a much needed conversation within so called "Black America". Although I think most Black folks have unfortunately already closed their eyes and covered their ears when it comes to Cosby... They have already shut him out. In fact, many Blacks (especially those who identify with Hip Hop culture), will usually shut out those who challenge their culture and their behavior. That has become an almost normal reaction at this point.

Unfortunately the folks who need to hear the message are not going to Barnes & Noble to buy a damn book....nor will they be going to any of his call out events.

I wish he would use his fame and money to open up youth development centers in major metro's all across the country.... job/skill training centers, Small junior colleges subsidized for low cost tuition, parenting education and support programs, centers that would teach art/culture and build pride among youth, innovative after school programs, music programs, etc.

He should also be pushing for parenting classes to be required at the high school and college level all across the country (as standard) especially in the inner cities where these problems are more pronounced. Classes on how to handle money and build wealth should also be required for all students.

That would be a much better use of his time and resources. His criticism has to be counter-balanced with some kind of positive programmatic alternative (this is where he is lacking). Instead he is just offering a verbal smackdown...and Black folks (as usual) don't want to hear it....especially the Hip Hop culture. They don't accept criticism well at all...and they usually end up discounting the message along with the messenger.

Mac said...

Sorry, bro. Bill doesn't talk, he preaches. He doesn't agitate, he sermonizes. A lot of us are sick of it and here's why. First, if you want to motivate someone, you don't scold or make them feel bad. You nurture them, you take take positive behavior, build on it. How does Bill attempt to motivate? By finding the worst examples and bashing black folks over the head with it-- in front of white audiences on Meet the Press. Second, Bill is educated and already knows that we're talking structural vs cultural arguments, with what comes down to one feeding on the other. People are poor and feel hopeless, and they do what all poor people do-- blame and take it out on the closest people to them-- each other. Instead of just telling us to do better (which we already know), he should also be demanding and fighting for structural changes: Changing welfare policies to help couples stay together, fighting racist employers that steadfastly refuse to hire black people, especially black men, changing tax codes and agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA that makes it easier for multi-national corporations to move manufacturing and other jobs to India, Pakistan, China and Mexico, and fighting for free education for ALL poor people so they can compete in a global economy, proving funding for transportation and childcare so people can get to a job if they get one and healthcare so they're able to work.

Preaching to black women about having babies by different men or scolding gangbangers is just cultural stuff that fails to addess why they got that way in the first place and fails to address much-needed policies to help them. Not only that, it enables racists to rationalize keeping the poor locked down in impoverished, crime-ridden neighborhoods with few job skills and no jobs to look for.

I know some of us love him and grew up with him on tv. But what he is doing against black people is shameful; and it's time he just got out of the way. Bill better be glad he's gome some money, buecause the sad truth is that that's all he has to offer anymore. Mac

justice58 said...

mac

Spoken so true!

Jose said...

holy shit mac! that was hot. thanks.

Liz said...

I just loved how, despite all the stuff that's going on in the world, Cosby got that prime spot on Meet the Press. Who really watches Meet the Press anyway? Who's the target audience for that show? Are the so called "low class blacks" he's referring to watching that on Sunday morning at 8 AM? Or was that just another chance to say, "See America, those trifling negros are really as bad and undeserving of justice as you think they are!"

Even if both Bill and Jesse have done it, Black folks don't have a lock on having babies out of wedlock. We didn't originate using drugs, being on welfare, being poor, etc. But you sure as hell don't see white people getting on TV and saying, "Okay, all you trifling crystal meth users out there need to pull yourself up and get it together! Get an education!"

Do white people write books about how biker gangs and skinheads and Britney Spears are making them look bad as a race? Last time I checked, other than "Stupid White Men", they don't. But maybe they should start so the can get on Meet the Press too.

The Angry Independent said...

You nurture them, you take take positive behavior, build on it.

The "Black community" has been given the "nurturing" treatment by the Black liberal elite for decades. That hasn't worked. Who have been the "nurturers"? Jesse, Julian Bond, Al Sharpton, Mfume, (to some extent, Farrakhan)...and all the rest. Coddling these folks... awarding Nelly, 50 Cent, R. Kelly for their great efforts to represent Black Americans around the world...(too scared to call them on their bull----). They have been preaching about bad old whitey for decades... while the so-called "Black community" has gone to Hell under their watch. And the whole time... they have been giving you that "nurturing" bull... Instead of standing up like men.

Why? One reason is that these so-called "nurturers" have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Civil Rights Inc. has become a business. If there is significantly less suffering... then there are fewer opportunities to blame whitey. And if the "blame whitey" routine loses followers, then these guys lose their grip on their positions in the "community".

There have been few Black men willing to stand up to say what needs to be said. Cosby had the guts to do it. He knew he would be attacked and ridiculed by certain Black folks...

MLK was criticized by Blacks too...

We need more men like Dr. Cosby.

I don't see any of you criticizing these damn rappers with nearly the same level of ferocity.

In fact...What About Our Daughters just posted about an effort by these thug rappers (particularly David Banner) to support the "stop snitching" madness. This is in relation to the arrest of thug T.I. http://whataboutourdaughters.blogspot.com/2007/10/manchild-levell-crumps-ignorance.html

With all the Black on Black violence/murders across the country... these guys are actively pushing the "stop snitching" culture. Yet... not a peep from the Black Hip Hop culture blogs or from the wider Black establishment. David Banner will probably be picking up some NAACP honor or some BET honor soon. These a--holes are never held accountable.

I don't see you all coming out against that. But you attack any Black man who is trying to sound the alarm and wake people up (to call them to action) to save their communities and rebuild their culture and the Black family.

But nooo.... The people who are tearing down these institutions are considered your heroes instead.

I guess that shouldn't be a surprise from a Hip Hop Blog.

This is what I hate about the whole Black blog genre....Black culture in general.

This is why other cultures look at Black Americans with bewilderment... They can't understand why the "Black community" has become so self destructive. You simply don't see the same severity of problems in other cultures... because they take responsibility for their communities. And they cannot understand why Blacks have not accepted that concept.

Blinders Off said...

Whose words are more destructive to the black race today…David Banner or Bill Cosby?

I prefer Bill Cosby message gets through to the black community than I would David Banner.

Kriss said...

Racist don't need Cosby's comments to rationalize anything they do. White people don't need Cosby's comments to come up with the stereotypes they do. I don't agree with every single thing that Cosby says but I understand that he makes some valid points and there are things we have to address.

You can change all the policies in the world, but if people don't stop doing dumb shit...it doesn't matter. You need to do both things. You need to attack the system and get policies in place that benefit our people but at the same time you have to tell people doing dumb shit to act like they have some sense. Without one the other doesn't matter.

WildMagnolia said...

I'm not sure who Cosby is preaching to and what his goal really is. The audience he is reaching already know what problems we are dealing with. Is this his way of separating himself from "those kind of Blacks" to the public? Why isn't he preaching in a different arena? Better yet, why isn't he using his means to actually do something? (If he is please let me know.)

Sidebar: My prayers are with the current refugees in California but massage therapists, yoga???? I can't wait to see if the insurance companies screw them the way they screwed us after Katrina.

X

Prometheus 6 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Prometheus 6 said...

Angry Independent:

The "Black community" has been given the "nurturing" treatment by the Black liberal elite for decades. That hasn't worked.

What nurturing are you talking about beyond conversation? Your first comment tells me you know the difference.

field negro said...

"He should also be pushing for parenting classes to be required at the high school and college level all across the country (as standard) especially in the inner cities where these problems are more pronounced. Classes on how to handle money and build wealth should also be required for all students."

Good point A.I., and as usual I respect your position and agree with some (just some)of the things you said.

I think mac made some excellent points as well, and he spoke to some of the social policies and the politics that drive many of these problems. I think your dislike for hip hop and its culture clouds your objectivity with this subject.

Of course we need to rope some of these kids in and put them in check. But frankly, if we are going to focus on David Banner (an entertainer)and not the real people out here setting policy, then we have some problems. And frankly, I don't trust some of the folks on the other side crying for change. There are some agendas at work here that aren't pure.

It's easy to blame all of our problems on the hip hop culture and out of control kids. But what came first; the chicken or the egg? I think the hip hop culture represents a lot of the f*&%%d up shit going on in these communities.

Cos, is cool with me. But he really needs to chill now. Like someone above said. The people he is trying to reach aint listening to "Meet The Press".

brotherkomrade said...

"Is this his way of separating himself from "those kind of Blacks" to the public? "

You know it is...

I used to point this out a lot on the Afroroach..uh Afronerd's blog but old Desmond never would answer to this point because it is a fact; Cosby grandstands for himself and the black members of his class, so that America's 'mainstream' can say, "Oh, I see, you're not like those scary negroes like David Banner. Sure, we'll know who NOT to jail or railroad into the gas ovens."

Pure and simple, no one of the
"Lower Classes" watches the shows that Cosby appears on, but we do know WHO does. There was a name for some Jewish people who did the same thing in the face of the rise of the Nazis in Germany.

@ Angry Independent - You're funny. I'm adding you to my list of enemies, but I must ask, where is the memo that states that the "Liberal" way was to coddle the bad negroes of the Black Community? You see, I have books that have photostatic copies of REAL documents that targeted REAL black leaders and activists for arrests, surveillance, and assassinations. (Things that Cosby never needs to be worried about happening to him), but my point is, where is your documented proof that the left, Liberals, the KGB, and Satanists have anything to do with gangstas and gangsta rap, and the "No Snitching" nonsense?
Where's your proof?
Tell us how Cosby's Sunday School Sermons are going to change things?
At least we know that he has done actual work in his home community, but people like you and that Short-Buser, Desmond Burton don't say that, you keep pointing to Cosby's grandstanding as if that is a cure to OUR internal problems.
But make no mistake, WE in the black community who are conscious whether Left-wing or right-wing, know that there are problems that WE bring on ourselves, but understand WHERE the roots of poverty, sexism, racism begin and that they have a CAUSE and EFFECT.

@ FN, dude, the Right-Wingnuts are at the gate!!!

Kriss said...

fyi....

Georgia Supreme court orders Genarlow Wilson out of jail...

I swear, this country needs a "Common Sense" law in the constitution so things like this don't go this long without being resolved.

Francis L. Holland Blog said...

Man Gets 3 Years for Puppy Toss

Kriss said...

3 years for tossing a puppy and 0 years for killing a black child at a boot camp...seems to be par for the course.

Angie said...

I'm going to try to make this quick, being that I'm at work. But I had to go ahead and enter the conversation right now.

My issue with Bill is the same issue that I have with Tavis and his State of the Black Union... The people that need to hear it are not hearing the message. It frustrates me because it seems like the message about what black folks need to do to improve their condition is continuously delivered to the ones that are already putting those recommendations in practice. The black folks that need that level of insight and motivation are at the crib with no earthly idea that Bill and Tavis are even talking.

You know black folks in the hood aren't watching MTP. Hell, I don't even watch MTP most Sundays. So, you know the sistah in the hood that barely has a high school education, who needs to understand the impact of having her third child without a husband is certainly not watching Meet the Press. And she's not watching the 7 hour verbal marathon that Tavis does on C-Span once a year either.

Do I agree with most of what Bill is saying? Pretty much... I feel quite strongly about the African American Family. I posed a question on this blog a couple of weeks ago... I hear bloggers asking, "What about our daughters?" Well, I submit again, ?"What about our children?" You can't ignore the condition of our sons, while you seek to protect the girls. That's crazy as hell. Our children in general are suffering. Our economic bottom lines are suffering because we don't understand the power and liberty of having a double income. (Do I sound like a conservative? Whatever...)

Back in May, I made a comment over at Skeptical Brotha's site that caused one of the bloggers to pounce on me. I basically said that it is time for black folks to get it together and put forth more personal responsibility. Well, that person came back on me and told me to stop preaching the personal responsibility talk and instead understand what black folks have gone through.

I understand probably better than many black folks about discrimination and prejudice, being that I have a triple bang effect when it comes to gender, race, and disability. But that is no free pass to sit on my A$$ and do nothing with my life.

Success is not something you stumble into. It is something you do purposely. That's what we need to be teaching people. Yes, it is hard to set goals and achieve them, especially when the odds are against you. But you can do it.

I think that's what Bill is trying to say. Yes, the odds are there. But do we lie down and let the odds win?

Does Bill need to present his message in a different medium? Um, yes... But here's my question... Still will anyone be listening. Or will we just go on the defense because we don't like to be challenged.

When I started losing my eyesight, I had all the excuses in the world why I could have a pity party and give up. My mentor, who lives in Seattle now, told me one day on the phone, when I was 14-years-old, "I don't want to hear that poor, little, pitiful me bullshi**." She told me that I had already had my time to cry over what was happening to me, and that I would probably cry again. But now it was time to decide if I was going to survive or die.

It's time for us to ask the people, our people that we claim we love so much if they realize that it is time to pick and choose. Either we continue to suffer or we start thriving. Is it going to take hard work? Absolutely.

**Sorry for the long post. I need to get my own social/political blog to go on a rant. LOL**

C-dell said...

This seems strange to me. I would think that you of all people would want to address the issues of the black community. hiding and pretending that they don't exist won't make them go away. I am glad that Mr. Cosby is speaking out someone needs to. The black community has more than it's fair share of problems that hold us down. The only way to fix them is to talk about them. Of all the problems that you discuss. You don't think that these issues need to be addressed. I do the black community has some real problems and someone needs to call black people out on their crap, or change will never happen.

Anonymous said...

The person who will bring a unifying message will be from the grass roots, the bottom of the barrel, the underclass. It will not be someone from the "black elite", so Cosby can speak/write all he wants, his message will never unify us because it's a message of division.

Angie said...

"The person who will bring a unifying message will be from the grass roots, the bottom of the barrel, the underclass. It will not be someone from the "black
elite"

Oh my... Okay, I can deal with that. But where is that person? Why aren't they speaking out? We can't rely on the rappers to do it. They seem like the one that the folks at the bottom of the ladder would listen to. But instead of them saying the right thing, they're too busy being in love with strippers, guns, pills, weed, cars, and money. The hip hop generation are not sounding the alarm about what's really happening in the hood. When I put on a Radio One station, I'm hearing quite the contrary. I'm hearing about all the wrong stuff in the hood in a context framed as if it is right, enjoyable, and/or preferred.

I'm not blaming everything on hip hop. I just think that hip hop needs to take responsibility. It's time.

If the hip hop generation don't want to hear from a upper crust black person, then they need to elect someone with some sense to speak loud about their issues.

awb said...

I can't believe people are still blaming hip hop culture for black folks ills. That's like saying listening to the blues contributed to making black folks lazy and promiscuous. It's a tired notion that needs to be put to bed.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Well, Field, no one could have said it better.

Instead of saying what is needed to solve the problems affecting the Black community, why not show them how it's done?

It's easy to condemn; it's a whole 'nother story when you have to approach that person where they are, and show them the way out.

Cos walks his talk somewhat - all those donations to Morehouse and Spellman kept a lot of Black kids in school; not to mention giving out a few scholarships. And don't get me started on Oprah - yeah, yeah, yeah, I know she's all that, but I have yet to get over on how she dogged Black children in this country while going to South Africa to set up a private, $40 million dollar school for a few South African girls priviledged or fortunate enough to get in.

It's easy to sling the talk about how black people need to improve; it's another when you roll-up your sleeves to actually get the job done. I know - you don't do a part-time career as a drug and alcohol counselor to help sistas get off drugs and alcohol while pregnant with babies, who have a better than 50% chance of being born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or addicted to Crack cocaine.

I had that part-time career for ten years while holding down a full-time job and going for my graduate degree. So I know how easy it is to preach at people, but you really have to approach people where they are in order for them to take you seriously.

Cos gets a pass - but the problem is, who's giving him that pass, because I'm not doing that.

Joel said...

great post, FN.

The whole "there needs to be personal responsibility" line is the PERFECT weapon for people who want to preserve the status quo. It's a good way to shift attention away from the perpetrators and toward the victims.

The combination of history and current policy has caused every single failure of "personal responsiblity" that Cosby and company see.

fillmore said...

How does places focus on Blacks accomplish anything???

Quite honestly, I think Blacks believe that they can use moral and cultural superiority to unite and rise above Whites and the oppression they face. Maybe this is why so many Blacks believe that poor Blacks are the problem. They're not living up to the high standards expected of them.

Poor Blacks who engage in crime and other behaviors certainly aren't making things better; but at the same time I don't think they're making things significantly worse.

Moral and cultural superiority hold little currency when it comes to attaining Power that has the ability to influence (and hoepfully make things better). Just examine how Whites have come to exert White Supremacy globally.

---

If Blacks' focus on poor Blacks isn't based in cultural and moral superiority then its probably based on the fact that segregation is real.

Blacks focus on other Blacks because thats the only thing they know. They grew up in neighborhoods and saw Black dsyfunction and believe thats the sole source of Black second class status in the U.S.

How many Blacks have a lot of close White friends? How many Blacks went to predominetly White high schools? How many Blacks have grown up with Whites to witness some of their development-

*from overtly racist in elementary school ("youre burnt toast and your hair is nasty and feels like brillo pad)

*to covertly racist in high school (whites hanging out in all white groups talking shit about blacks and minorities.)

*to apathetic or feeling the need to justify todays racial heirarchy, in college ("theres nothing we can do, things are too messed up." and "i can't think about anything outside myself- i have to get a good job b/c i want to have a family someday" to the classic abstact liberal justification to repeal AA programs, "i don't support affirmative action because its not fair" and "Any attempts to correct past wrong doings amounts to reverse racism."

Focus needs to be place on Whites. Whites are a group, Whites participate in group behavior.

With this country's changing demographics, its going to be interesting to see what Whites will do... Will they mantain the White majority and invisibility by incorporating other groups like light-skinned asians and latinos???

Placing focus (i'm saying focus- and not blame)on Whites (and the American government that represents Whites) would promote Black unity.
I'm certain of it.

When the media focuses on Blacks, it helps Whites unite and it makes us the other. Blacks need an other to focus on and critique. And the other shouldn't be poor Blacks.

Whites don't even place focus on themselves. Many White people don't even consider their race.
Why should we???

Greg aka Farrod said...

Mac,

Way to shut em' down!


Greg aka Farrod

Greg aka Farrod said...

@ Angry Independent

Are Jason Whitlock?

Villager said...

Amen Field!

I do cut Cosby some slack, probably for the same reasons that you list. In fact, I'm going to read his book ... which I figure is the motivation for him coming out so strong this month ... and review it. I also recall that Cosby went thru some tragedy with the death of his only manchild.

However, I also seem to recall that Cosby has a 'lovechild' by a woman not named Camille. So, i'm interested to see how he reconciles his "no babies out of wedlock" message with his personal situation.

Anyhow, good post. I enjoyed it as usual!

Anonymous said...

The Angry Independent is so completely right about everything he's saying. Field, you are so wrong on this and so is anyone who agrees with you. I really enjoy reading you but you didn't nail this one. Sorry boo.

Anonymous said...

"This seems strange to me. I would think that you of all people would want to address the issues of the black community. hiding and pretending that they don't exist won't make them go away".

Field, see that quote up there? No matter how many times you, I, or any other non-conservative blacks talk about those issues, people like the above won't stop saying that we are "hiding from the issues". These black right-wing authoritarians are exactly like their white counterparts in that they need to see us a certain way, and no demonstration of reality will make them see us the way we actually are. They have too large a vested interest in staying delusional.

Even though these people still fill the need for white racists to have a black person tell them that they are justifed in theie prejudices, It seems to me that they are now under pressure to actually deliver a substantial number of black converts to the anti-black cause. They can work their asses off on TV and (especially) the internet to create the impression that this is happening, but the only real indicator will be at the ballot box. If it's not happening there, it's not really happening. So, all you anti-black blacks- that's your challenge. Let's see you put a convincing number of blacks votes in the Republican column. I mean TRULY convincing, not spin-convincing. If that doesn't happen, then you haven't done shit, and you will have hell to pay to your masters.

awb said...

Joel,

So true.

Same old story: you learn how to play the game but they keep changing the rules.

I read this somewhere else (forgive me if I butcher it): imagine you're playing checkers with some guy who has been cheating for 250 years and has stacks of your ill gotten chips on his side. One day he say's "Y'know, i'm gonna stop cheating from this point on. I will be totally honest and forthright." Other guy is like "Cool, but uh,what are you going to do with all the chips you cheated me out of?" Other guy is like "What do you mean? Surely, you can't expect me to give this up?"

The only reason the power structure in this country enjoys the position it has is because their wealth was built on virtually free labor.

Kitty Glendower said...

My issue with Bill is the same issue that I have with Tavis and his State of the Black Union... The people that need to hear it are not hearing the message. It frustrates me because it seems like the message about what black folks need to do to improve their condition is continuously delivered to the ones that are already putting those recommendations in practice. The black folks that need that level of insight and motivation are at the crib with no earthly idea that Bill and Tavis are even talking.

To Angie, hear hear!

How do you get the people who need to listen to listen. A hard row to hoe. When the goal is to eat Twinkies 24/7 (yeah I heard your fine self Chris, lol!), how can one change the menu?

Billy said...

Angie-
Not all hip-hop is like the stuff you hear on the radio, historically or currently. This is partly because the tired old guns/drugs/and bitches paradigm is easier to write and to wrap beats around, partly because the people in charge of choosing what goes on the air are threatened by revolutionary messages, and primarily because hip-hops biggest audience--white suburbanites, particularly white women--don't really care about race relations and just want to party.

If you really want to successfully attack the problems with modern, mainstream rap music, don't tut-tut the messages, as that will just be shrugged off. Instead, focus on the fact that they are sell-outs to white, cooperate America--it's just as true, and it will be far more effective. I doubt field has to be told this, either.


In other news, they finally released Genarlow Wilson

The Angry Independent said...

BrotherKomrade... Being listed as an enemy by another Black Hip Hop culture apologist? I see that as a compliment... and I want to thank you. I am on several lists.

I will be happy to continue this debate.... but the Fields call and await my arrival.

When I get back from the plantation... we can continue.

But you never addressed my point that your anger seems to always be towards Blacks who stand up and say something that goes against the grain. You never condemn the rappers or the drug dealers for spreading poison through your community.

I just find that interesting.

Instead your efforts seem to be dedicated to finding excuses for their behavior.... "the white man is responsible for this". lol

You will have to come up with another tune eventually. That tune has almost played itself out.

Lola Gets said...

Im just pleased that Bill actually took time to write some of his thoughts down. I think they have more value in this form than in his rantings.

Also, Field, I did what you said, and wrote about abuse for Domestic Violence Awareness Month - come check it out.

L

Anonymous said...

if we do not acknowledge where we are then there is no point of reference or origin to get where we need to go. If we have to change the petty image of a crack dealer being held in the highest esteem then you must have a replacement for our youngest adolescents. Our children should have heroes back home where we originate from, and ones that are prisoners of the system and fighting against it today. We should have people that are not glorified on T-shirts as often but who fought for independence celebrated more and studied, not just to examine their success but to learn from their failures. But the real reason we do not have them as an example is that those predecessors of Revolution today are not on the corner of our neighborhoods being marketed to us, that's why the average artist today no matter how manufactured their corporate bought thug image may be, are seen as legitimate by the youth. After the warriors of old have past there must be the young among us that rise to become greater than we could ever imagine in the 21st Century. For true greatness revolves much more around being consistently good rather and take personal responsibility as a people. Power without that perception is meaningless.

brotherkomrade said...

"Instead your efforts seem to be dedicated to finding excuses for their behavior.... "the white man is responsible for this". lol"

Are you sure about that?
Find where I have said such things when, in the same sentence I do NOT talk about those who prey on black folks from within.
I would be a fool not to. I can say this for those of us who are progressive unlike those who are reactionary; at least we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Now, I posted comments here targeting specific points by you or others. In that context, I don't need to bring up the minstrels (the David Banners e.g.)in every sentence to satisfy you or your masters.

I don't need to apologize for Hip-Hop, for there is NOTHING wrong with Hip-Hop; she died a perfect and diverse creature. From KRS-ONE, to Public Enemy, to N.W.A., and De La Soul, she was complex and diverse, then she died.

Now if you want to talk about her sell-out crack-headed corporate-slave son, Commercial Rap, well he's very unfamiliar to me and I certainly see the difference between the two. Too bad you wouldn't know the first thing about our folk's culture to see that difference as well.

That's a pity, son.

Mac said...

I want to apologize if I sounded mean-spirited or rhetorical about Mr. Cosby, a person who has given quite a bit of money to causes in his hometown and to colleges in Atlanta, Georgia, where I lived. But sometimes it's easier to criticize than understand.

One of the reasons that i'm tired of hearing what Mr. Cosby is saying is not because what he's saying is wrong but that it's said all the time, including by some of the same Black folks he criticizes: Black ministers, politicians, democrats and republicans, local leaders such as schoo board members, parents-- they pretty much share Mr. Cosby's values of family, community and responsibility. But when you're poor and need money like yesterday, values sometimes must take a backseat to desperation....

I used to work at Phyllis Wheatley Community Center, the oldest black institution in Minneapolis. As a counselor and later Associate Director, One of the things I was in charge of was their "Family Assistance Program," which helped poor families with rent, mortgage, utilities, food and other necessities as well as information on where to go to find a full-time job or job training so they could gain more marketable skills and be able to pay rent or their mortgage.

Here's what I want the Bill Cosbys and house negroes of this world to know: First, many of the poor, including the black poor, share his values of hard work, family and individual responsibility. That's why they came to me and others for help. They wanted to get a better job so they could not only afford rent, but to move out of their crime-ridden neighborhoods, where they were afraid of letting their children play outside. The women didn't want to get some new nails from South Kora at the loval Salon; they wanted pampers for their babies, bus tokens until they got a paycheck from their new job (How do I know? I veified that she had a new job before I helped her). And they worried about leaving their children with relatives or neighbors, because they didn't have chldcare.

What i'm trying to say and not saying very well is this: Poor people need help with practical things which, when you really check it out, comes back to a greater need to change public policy to help them, such as transportation and childcare. If you think i'm just rappin, ask a sister about the cost of childcare). Ultimately, it shows just how insensitive, how much we, whites and blacks, despise poor people, regardless of color or ethnicity but especially blacks

Now, I addmit that some of their teenaged kids had given up and had either joined gangs or their "crew." But even that showed to me the need for after-school prevention programs where these young brothers and sisters could get hooked up with positive adults.which were cut drastically here in Minneapolis. Many of these programs were cut her in Minneapolis.

But the parents were already practicing the values that Mr. Cosby esposed. They just needed practical help, not a sermon they had just heard at church last Sunday or from their mom back in Chicago.

When the Bill Cosbys (and by projection, Republican house negroes who quote him to excuse their own failure to help poor people and sell their souls for some chump change and a house near massa) act as though they have a monopoly on truth, when they speak as though they are the only ones preaching self-help and family responsibility, they not only show that they think poor Black folks are stupid, they also insult a lot of us who have worked and are working with them, people more intimate with their lives and the myriad of struggles with which they must contend on a daily basis just to survive. Blessings. Mac

justice58 said...

mac

"I want to apologize if I sounded mean-spirited"
___________________________________
You didn't! I like it, because it's the truth. Don't ever apologize for speaking truth to power!

Have a good one!

awb said...

People either forgot or just don't know how exhausting poverty can be.

liberal journal man said...

I think Mac has put this issue in proper perspective.

Anonymous said...

"People either forgot or just don't know how exhausting poverty can be."

Well, I haven't forgotten... I realize how exausting, how draining, how tormenting, how devastating, how destructive poverty is. Poverty has a way of not only shackling the pocket book, but the mind as well. I realize that poverty is capable of putting the human mind, will, and strength in a locked box.

But with that being said, we can't continue to not address the sickness, the psychological damage of poverty. We got to doctor this thing and get our people well. We can't keep on diagnosing the problems with our round table discussions on the white man's media. We've got to deal with the disease with real solutions that can be implimented immediately.

I work at a vocational rehab agency. We assist individuals with disabilities and/or medical conditions prepare for, find, and maintain employment. We do that by helping them develop strategies and giving them tools to decrease the very real impediments to employment. Yes, the impediments and barriers are there. But we address them very strategically. Why? Because it's necessary if you ever plan to get pass those barriers.

Is it easy to address the barriers to achievement? Absolutely not... Is it fair to have to deal with those barriers? Hell no... But that's the way it is.

I get up everyday and go to ajob that many, including the folks on my caseload, don't think I should be there. White men with 5th grade educations are looking at me, trying to figure out how in the hell did I get where I am. Well, I didn't get there because I crybabied all the way there. I got there, and continue to get where I'm going because I worked hard.

Here's the thing... I put my hard earned money on it that almost everyone that posts here is college educated. We know that going to school ain't easy. But you do what you got to do.

Instead of saying that folks that are in poverty don't know any better, we should get off of our college educated behinds (And I know some of us are already doing this.) and go mentor someone. Go hold a sistah's hand and help her come up with a plan to exit the shackling clutches of poverty. Go grab a black man and give him some ideas of occupations he can consider as a real and viable form of employment.

We can do it. But guess what... We got to leave our plush homes, and our fine desks, stop clacking on our computer keyboards, and find our way down to the hood. Can we do that? Are we up to the challenge? That's what's up.

Angie

newgirl448 said...

Cosby is WAY, WAY out of his intellectual depth and that we allow an adulterous serial rapist to take Black people to task for low morals is an obscenity. A dozen different women, from different parts of the country, who don’t know each other and whose eerily similar stories span two decades…well that just screams innocence. He has either fathered or very well could have fathered children outside of his marriage and has been estranged from his own drug addicted child (because he knows how to parent I guess). His lack of fitness goes largely unchallenged in our communities and that, I’m afraid, is evidence that African-Americans are as virally infected with the profound misconception that wealth equals worth as the rest of American society.

His prolonged tirade against "the lower class" is no more than vented frustration. Like many middle and upper middle class Blacks, he is frustrated that no matter how much money we make, how many letters we put behind our names, or how many times we profess love for God and country; no matter what the nature of this racist beast is that we are judged as a group and we are judged by the least among us. Now, that the least among US is disproportionately poor and unemployed, educationally neglected, and largely disenfranchised is a function of the self-serving choice that middle class Blacks (think pre-1934 Dubois) made to abandon the struggle for institutional development so that their talented tenth could sit next to white folks in schools and at restaurants “with all deliberate speed.” It is that fraudulent, self annihilative, non-economic, socially liberal non-sense-otherwise known as integration-that is at the root of the problems that the Black masses in the country are facing and that a member of the upper class that set this speeding train to hell in motion would turn venomous on his own people is inexcusable.

Hathor said...

The thing is, black people have always been poor, including Bill Cosby. I do believe that the rhetoric of the 60's black power movement changed some of the mores and welfare created more problems.
Welfare began to reward bad behavior and males were marginalized. Stereotypical myths became self fulfilling prophecies. Because it was said there weren't any fathers in the black family (not true at the time) policy made that true.

Some of the evolving values of feminism had an impact on welfare, thinking the poor had the same problems of the middle class. The church had an impact on the laws which prevented counseling on birth control and poor women were expected to be less sexual than the middle class. This is in a world of the sexual revolution.

Racism had its impact, in that it began to demonize these families and those blacks running from poverty clearly thought the association would rub off on them. Role models left the neighborhoods, urban renewal destroyed neighborhood, with the poor moving into substandard housing than they had before. They were separated and isolated. I am sorry to say that many black folks had a hand in this too, because the goal of the black middle class was to appear to whites as they were worthy to be first class citizens. This is how racism has effected us.

The efforts of the poor people that challenged the racist south, in order to have the right to vote is not in our stories; the sacrifice, the dignity and power they had has not become a cultural myth. Fannie Lou Hamer should be a cultural icon as much as Martin Luther King Jr. Black Power rhetoric replace the history of the civil right movement. Young people have to have examples of power, not just examples of wealth. They also need to know that being poor doesn't diminish your dignity or your intelligence. That being poor or black doesn't mean you are inferior. That comes from what is passed down. It has to be in the culture. Adults have been caught up in the youth culture for too long, we became apologist when the kids started to call hip hop black culture and after 20 years, many in their forties believe it to be true.

Black people have to take responsibility for some of this. Our failure has been that we have not held up our own history as worthy, only a mirror of ancient Africa. We have been here four centuries, our history is in American. When the black kid speaks of the struggle; he has no understanding that for so many blacks, years before, his life would seem like a walk in the park.

Anonymous said...

Field, with you being a lawyer, I'm sure you're already aware, but..because the justice system refuses to send white drug addicts to jail, they are now being hired as "cops"!!

Can you name any other country where a drug addict can still look forward to being a cop in that country or the president of that country?

Anonymous said...

"Adults have been caught up in the youth culture for too long, we became apologist when the kids started to call hip hop black culture and after 20 years, many in their forties believe it to be true.
Black people have to take responsibility for some of this. Our failure has been that we have not held up our own history as worthy, only a mirror of ancient
Africa."

You betta preach! I love that. Well said...

Angie
Nuvision

Christopher Chambers said...

Field, the horse is now mummified it's so damn dead. You haveblack folks who wish to simper for the legions of downtrodden po' folk, and you have black folks whoagree with Cosby. Time and circumstances and stupidity will make the former camp untenable, sorry to say.

Accordingly, dude, time to find another issue...

mac said...

"People either forgot, or just don't know how exhausting poverty is."-- awb

"Well, I haven't forgotten.."
--anonymous

"We should speak truth to power."
--justice 58

I'm with you. But I want to do what liz talked about-- write a book about white meth users, white bikers and white Brittany Spears-- how "trailer trash" white people's criminal and immoral behavior is bringing down the white race. Maybe middle class and upper-crest white people will come to know how it makes us feel when our entire ethnic group is judged by violent gangbangers and immature commercial rappers. Maybe I could peddle my book "Come on, White People!" on Meet the Press? mac

Anonymous said...

Interesting logic! I admit we have these problems. These major problems, like oh let's say, most black children don't have a father!!!!!!!! But, please, kindly, cease reminding us of that problem because we already know. That's wonderful Logic Field Negro. I think I'll use that with my wife when she asks me to mow the lawn.

field negro said...

"I think I'll use that with my wife when she asks me to mow the lawn."

Why does she have to tell you to mow thw lawn? If the grass is high just mow it.

If she keeps reminding you, will it make you want to mow it more?

Think aobut that logic!

justice58 said...

Why does she have to tell you to mow thw lawn? If the grass is high just mow it.

If she keeps reminding you, will it make you want to mow it more?

Think aobut that logic!
___________________________________
There you go! LOL

Anonymous said...

great post and comments.

what gets me the most is just the idea of preaching "pull yourself up."

...because that had never occurred to anyone.

"OOOOH! that's what i'm supposed to do! i thought i'd just chill out here in the gutter, but you're suggesting i pull myself up by the bootstraps?! i've never thought of that. by golly here i go!"

i think we can encourage ourselves and others to take personal responsibility but preaching is for talking about the structural stuff, like mac said - bringing attention to bigger things going on that we need to transform...

-elizabeth

Greg aka Farrod said...

I don't need to apologize for Hip-Hop, for there is NOTHING wrong with Hip-Hop; she died a perfect and diverse creature. From KRS-ONE, to Public Enemy, to N.W.A., and De La Soul, she was complex and diverse, then she died.

Now if you want to talk about her sell-out crack-headed corporate-slave son, Commercial Rap, well he's very unfamiliar to me and I certainly see the difference between the two. Too bad you wouldn't know the first thing about our folk's culture to see that difference as well.

That's a pity, son.

damn, damnn, DAMNNN, oooooooooooooooohhhh!!!

That' puttin it down...

MJB said...

AWB,
2 money comments:
"I can't believe people are still blaming hip hop culture for black folks ills. That's like saying listening to the blues contributed to making black folks lazy and promiscuous. It's a tired notion that needs to be put to bed."
And
"People either forgot or just don't know how exhausting poverty can be."
So true on both fronts. And to answer someones question from an earlier comment...Yes, I'd rather have David Banner's message resonate because it's more important and harder to do.
What Cosby is doing is easy and will likely guarantee he lives a while longer. Speaking truth to power is much, much more dangerous and harder to do.

Hip-Hop is not dead! Look for it! It's there, it's still beautiful, just like the mass that Cosby is targeting. They are still there, hard working folks, men who stay with their families, kids who try their hardest to get educated...it's all still there! Don't let the lens you're viewing this thing with be the same one your enemy does.

And Oh Anon-Elizabeth you hit it on the head. The inherent problem that I have with the 'personal responsibility preaching' is just that...it is inherent...we are human. This argument is paternal, pathetic and takes a bit of our humanity out of the equation...which afterall is the history of this thang in a nutshell!

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