"We fall down but we get up......for a saint is just a sinner who fell down" ~Donie McClurkin~
So Donnie McClurkin would like us to believe that he was gay once, but now he is cured. After all, he declares, he wasn't born gay. Seems Donnie told the AP that he was once involved with those "desires and those thoughts" which he said was a result of being raped at 8 and 13. "That's what thrust me into it (watch those choice of words there Donnie) and then God delivered me from that and gave me back who I really am and my purpose"......... Yeah right Reverend, and with all due respect, that's bullshit!
No one is born heterosexual and then chooses to become gay. Well I used to get my freak on with women, but I just got tired of the (If I may use two Jamaican slang's) "pum pum" and decided to go to the "batty". But now, after I found God, I decided to go to the "pum pum" again. "But field, can't you see someone experimenting with sex like they do drugs?" Ahhh no!
This focus on Donnie McClurkin comes to you thanks to Obama's run for the presidency and politics as usual in A-merry-ca. Seems Obama has joined Donnie and some others on a gospel tour to help him lock down that very important black church vote. But a funny thing happened on the way to the rapture. It seems a few gay advocacy groups and left wing bloggers dug up some alleged homophobic statements by Reverend Donnie, and now Obama has some explaining to do. "The gloves are off and if there is going to be a war there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose. I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children" That was Donnie on the gay agenda. Not very nice words there Donnie, no wonder some of those folks are mad at you.
Now let me be clear, I wouldn't have been a fan of Donnie McClurkin if he hadn't made these ignorant ass statements about homosexuality. He lost me when he sang at the Republican Convention in 2004, and when he basically supported the republican agenda in the 04 elections with his bigoted stance on the gay rights issue. Having said that, this whole thing with Obama is bullshit and people just need to chill. I mean what the fuck? So some homophobic preacher who is struggling with his own sexuality endorses him. Does that mean that we paint Obama with the same broad brush? Or play three degrees of separation with every fucking supporter or contributor to his campaign? Of course not. We should do that no more than we would if the Catholic League endorsed him for president. And we all know about those well behaved catholic priests now dont we. No wonder us poor black folks think a black man just can't get a break in A-merry-ca. I mean he runs for president, and they look for all types of bullshit to bring him down with. Of course, if we as black folks weren't so ass backwards when it comes to some of these issues this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place. But sadly, wherever you have hypocrisy you are going to have problems. Black people let's talk: When half of the fucking choir every Sunday morning is just like Reverend Donnie, you have no right to be denouncing any ones personal behavior. You just worry about your own personal salvation and whatever you have to do to get it; and let the big guy upstairs worry about the gay guy singing in the alto section.
"There are many other things to be done to break the curse of homosexuality"
OK Donnie, good luck with breaking that curse. But I have one name for you; Larry Craig.
56 comments:
This has been the story of the day, from your blog, Chey Bell at nowlive, black agenda report, etc, etc.
Seems to me that people like Donnie run afoul of themselves like recovering alcoholics do. Or heaven forbid they find g-d. Then they can't shut the fuck up about it and want you too.
So this Donnie feels the same way, and bashes away like the true narcissistic self indulgent hypocrite that he is. And Obama can't know any better?
Maybe someday as we have awaken, they will too.
Oh who am I kidding.
-=t=-
"You just worry about your own personal salvation and whatever you have to do to get it; and let the big guy upstairs worry about the gay guy singing in the alto section."
Oh, snap. What is with these confused guys, thinking that if they air all their confused thoughts out loud, it will somehow all sort itself out? No, it'll just show everyone else how confused you are. So find peace with your natural-born inclinations and stop thinking that denouncing others like you is going to take the scent off.
Good analysis (no pun intended) bro. There's nothing more ridiculous than the idea that homosexuality is a choice. What the hell would anyone have to gain by making such a "choice."
If homosexuality were a choice, far, far, far, more men and women would be gay, because straight men and women get tired up putting up with one another's "mess."
By the way, one in every ten-thousand babies are born as hermaphrodites (both male and female sex organs.....I realize that "hermaphrodite", assuming I'm spelling it correctly, isn't something we hear about often).
This, in my humble opinion, is "O.J. trial" type evidence that homosexuality has strong genetic origens.
So I agree with you. Let's just let the deity, and mother nature, cast the first stone, and wish homosexuals the same happiness that we heterosexuals want.
George
Wayne, where is the scientific evidence that homosexuality is an inborn thing?
Field,
Donnie McClurkin and all of these other evangelical pricks are all full of shit. I won't go into how much these cats (and their followers) burn me up, man. And to top it all off, the theme for this tour gay-bashing, and this cat is actually gay!!
I agree with you that this is really not as big a deal(as far as Obama's image is concerned) as people are making it out to be. It still bothers me however, because I think it is a poor judgement call. I like Barack Obama, I really do. If I decide not to keep my vote in 2008, it will go to him. However, it seems that in the last couple of weeks he is steering away from everything that myself and others liked him for and falling into he typical political pitfalls that the Democrats have been falling into forever. It seems as though there is a small Democrat sitting on his shoulder now, telling him not to be the intelligent, profoundly moderate politician that has made him the first black candidate that America has really been forced to take seriously.
I guess I feel somewhat betrayed!lol..I never thought I would see this guy on stage with the likes of Donnie McClurkin.
Did I mention how much I despise this cat??
Q: Where is the scientific evidence that homosexuality is an inborn thing?
A: Inside of the DNA of gay people.
George
Obama is simply trying to get the black vote. We all know this. And you can't blame a brotha for trying. Now, the deal with McClurkin is this: He knows what the deal is with himself. He's not "confused." Confused about what? That he's gay? I mean, that's it. Now, whatever lie he wants to keep going, well, we all know what that's about. It's called: CYA, in other words: Covering Your A**. And keep that $$ rolling in like a mother...
This was a rare instance where Barack Obama let politics come ahead of principle. Just because he has to appeal to homophobic Christians doesn't make it right. That said, I'm glad to see him do fairly well as Hillary fell down a few notches in last night's debate.
As for Rev. McClurkin, he is no different from Larry Craig or the Washington state Rep. Richard Curtis. God may have delivered him from homosexuality, but not from ignorance and stupidity.
Here's one more thought to ponder, regarding this subject, then I MUST get some sleep.
If you believe that homosexuality is a choice, then you must apply this belief to your own sexuality.
In other words, if you believe that gay people have "chosen" to be gay, then YOU MUST ALSO ADMIT THAT, UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES, YOU JUST ALSO MIGHT "CHOOSE" TO BE GAY.
Being that I'm not gay, and 100% sure it has nothing to do with choice, I cannot think of ANY circumstance that would make me look at another man, the way I look at women.
One last thing. The prison argument doesn't work, either. Someone threw that one at me when I was a college undergraduate. I responded to the young lady by saying, "If someone put you in a cage, and they fed you lettuce, would that make you a vegetarian?"
Case closed, and good night (smile).
George
"Obama is simply trying to get the black vote. We all know this. And you can't blame a brotha for trying."
________
I can. When Obama did this gospel tour, he threw gays under the bus to get the black church's homophobic vote. True, it's not the first time a politician has thrown raw meat to wolves to cop some votes. But when a lot of gay people follow, knock on doors for you, run your campaign for you, place all their idealistic hopes on you (not to mention give you a lot of money) and you hook up with a preacher con artist and black Larry Craig like McClurkin, you're not just saying you're just trying to reach out to all voters, to develop a big tent. You're not even saying you sometimes may compromise principle on so-called issues like gay rights and gay people. What you're saying is that you're open to sacrificing just principles on any issue, any group of people, including black people, to become president of the US.
That why Obama hasn't distinguished himself from Sen. Clinton. That's why he won't get more votes than Sen. Clinton. The sad fact is that Obama and Sen. Clinton both have proven themselves to be remarkably similar in this respect: They are both centrist, democratic POLITICIANS who would throw their mommas under a bus, if it would get them the votes to become president of the US.
If we black folks who have taken the Obama kool-aid don't know by now, we will know soon: Just as he used gays as raw meat and threw them to homophobic christians, if necessary, he'll use us as red meat and throw us to NASCAR dads and soccer moms.
Stay in the field.
The only comment I will make on this subject is that I think we are giving Obama way too much credit. I am pretty certain that when they decided to ask DM to join the gospel tour, they were not thinking about his stance on gays. They were thinking about the fact that DM is a top selling gospel artist. DM demands a lot of attention in the black church, simply because of his major, major, major contribution to gospel music. That's why Obama's camp wanted him. It wasn't because they were trying to throw gays under the bus. Be real... It ain't that deep.
And for the record, there's not too many gospel artists, who are openly gay or straight, that will admit that homosexuality is permissable in the eyes of God. So, with that being said, there is no gospel artist that Obama could have elected to be on his little gospel tour.
Let's not allow the man to call us into the ring to join him in beating Obama down for something this unmajor.
Presidential candidates, most political candidates for that matter, go into churches all the time and rally church folks, who in general believe that homosexuality is a sin, to support them. I have never heard this kind of out cry against those other politicians like I have this time.
This is pure racism. Not homofobia...
angie said...
This is pure racism. Not homofobia...
and I agree. I'm kind of amazed at how easily we allow ourselves to be turned into Obama haters by white so-called progressives. What one would think is of interest is that Donnie McClurkin, who campaigned for Republicans in the last election and stumped for the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage withGeorge Bush has joined a tour with Barack Obama and endorsed his candidacy for President four years later.
Wow! Folks here, especially our leader field negro are always hoping to educate the HNs and get them out in the fields. Well, here we have a notorious HN who has come out of the house to at least stand on the patio and do we rejoice? Apparently not.
McClurkin may not have come out of the closet, but he has joined the campaign of a politician who is on record as supporting gay rights. The fallout for his career may be significant. And if he suffers the same fate as the Dixie Chicks I hope you will all start buying his albums, whether you like gospel music or not.
Racist?!? Come on people. Mclurkin is a homophobe. Obama is vying for the Democratic nomination. The same democrats in which homosexuals are a major voting block along with blacks. No Democrat that wanted to be president would come out against Affirmative Action and no Democrat who wanted to be President would associate with a Homophobe..... except Obama. He's had a zillion chances to disassociate himself from McKlurkin, but he won't do it. It’s a stupid and bigoted mistake that cost him my vote, and im a straight Black male.
"Wayne, where is the scientific evidence that homosexuality is an inborn thing?"
MF, please see "george malik's..." two comments for my answer.
"A: Inside of the DNA of gay people."
Don't you mean inside the jeans of gay people?
HA! Sorry,I couldn't let that one pass me by!
Firstly, I'm straight. I've always known that I like men. I remember being in elementary school where I saw a few boys that liked to play with dolls, switched when they walked a had effeminate tendencies. These young 6 year olds were not choosing to do this. This was their inclination from the jump off. I knew some of them greww out and finally came out. I do believe that people are born gay. Why would you choose that lifestyle?
Mr. Donny is STILL gay. My cousin in ATL is dating a guy. Donny bought his brother a house. They've been togther for years. Donny's also a bottom but that's another story.
The black community has got to acknowledge that we've got homosexuality in our community. I AM a Christian and I go to a mega church in Maryland. I can count all the tangy, zesty, fruity men in our choir. Such hypocrisy and denial in our community it's unreal!!!
I agree with the nonsensicalness of the "I'm a cured homosexual" crap, but why can't people experiment with sex like they do with drugs? Only one way to find out if you like it...
The pathology of our people on this is insane. Your frat boy won the state of Ohio (though I think he would have gangsta'd his way past Kerry anyway, Kerry being an awful candidate in the way Hillary will more than surpase as Kerry didn't have 18-wheelers of baggage) by getting ignorant negroes to focus on queers. Plain and simple. And guess what--a huge chunk of these folks were the same people a lot of the commenters on this blog defend from evil Bill Cobsy. Imagine that?
I frankly thinl Tyler Perry's gay and refuses to admit it b/c he feels he will loose this bamma church contingent who eats up his least common denominator vaudevillish stuff. Shakespeare said to thine own self be true. People need to be themselves and we should expect folk to rise to their talents, not lower themselves what our prejudices feel they should be.
Obama's sin is not one of craveness. It's clueless arrogance. Feeling his charisma can overcome everything. Look, I bet he even sat down with Donny and tried to "rehabilitate" him into being progressive again. This is pure Barack.
The gay issue is yet another metaphor, or allegory (I know you liked that Field) for the bullshit in our community, and our utter failure to confront our demons.
Now, I have to do some research on Dog Chapman (me and my dad's favorite TV show) b/c that old m-f has truly lost his damn mind...
Having a anti-gay gospel singer at a concert is a far cry from compromising on gay rights and throwing gay people under the bus. I think we do Obama a grave disservice by trying to treat him like some superhero that is above human nature. Each one of us has associated with and used someone's help whose outlook on life and politics we don't 100% or even remotely agree with. Hell, my own mother *shutters* voted for Bush in 2004 because he was "against dem gays". Does that mean I have to disassociate from my mother? Of course not.
The truth is, Obama has to court the homophobic black church vote just as much as the gay vote, maybe even more. If we have a problem with that we have to start with the issues in the black church and the idiotic ideas some of them there spread among their congregations. If we don't do that first and Obama doesn't court them, then the Republicans will and after the last 8 years...I don't want that again.
But in this case...really...come on. It's not that serious. I can't stand Oprah and her black man bashing sessions she has in front of her predominately white woman audience. Should I now protest the fact that Obama has her campaigning for him? I think not. Bottom line, out of all the candidates, Obama seems to represent me the most. Maybe not all of my ideas but a good enough amount that he has my support. And please...no one mention "I saw a UFO" Kucinich.
I agree with Angie and others...I seriously doubt Barack Obama was trying to diss anybody. He's probably not even all up in Donnie's kool-aid like that anyway. Someone probably said, "Hey, Donnie's a great singer, let's get him!" Barack probably had nada to do with the decision. Next thing you know, the liberal media is going to start suggesting that Donnie's the bottom and Barack is on the DL with him.
Also, I'm not Christian so I can't speak for the experience of growing up in a black church, but I do think we tend to throw the word "homophobia" around a whole lot. My relatives who are Christians love people they know who are out and openly gay, but they feel that the Bible is clear on the subject of homosexuality. But they are not afraid of gay people. They think that if they are choosing to hold themselves accountable to God for their own actions, it's their own personal decision to believe and/or behave in a certain way. One of my aunties talks about how what you do is between you and God, but it bugs her that people want to make religion suit their needs instead of rising to a certain standard.
Also, I know about a dozen people who are "yestergay". Half of them are now married to women and some have kids, etc. A couple are celibate. Some of them felt that their spiritual practice was more important than their sexual practice, and for them, being spiritually correct means not being gay and also not engaging in sex outside of marriage. If they feel it is a choice, I can't disrespect their decision since they are the ones going through it, not me.
I've already said that on this particular topic, the last thing Black people need to be doing is engaing in their own forms of bigotry.
We've already experienced that, and to engage in it ourselves, when we know what the history is; what the poisonous result is - why would we still engage in it?
I'm no fan of either McClurkin or Obama, but if Obama doesn't want to be a brotha that gets taken out by "The Man", he needs to quit shooting himself in the foot, stop reloading the gun to shoot himself again, and basically stop handing ammunition like this McClurkin issue to his enemies to help them take him out.
You don't teach people all of your fighting moves, do you, Field? Because if you did, you'd get your arse kicked daily, but because you hid a few moves in your "arsenal", you can always keep your element of surprise on your enemies in the field of battle.
I think it's more than that regarding Senator Obama.
I wrote about it here:
http://getridofthedlc.blogspot.com/2007/10/obama-battle-fatigue-thats-not-my-own.html
the first thing i thought when i heard this stuff was COME ON!!! i mean really. raise your hand if you've never seen a gay minister of music. and the amen chorus is silent.
As an African American, i'm proud that Mr. Obama is running for president, and i've been considering working form him. I saw him as a principled progressive in the vein of the late Paul Wellstone. But here's what Obama's participation in this gospel tour showed me about him:
First: He and his staff exercised poor judgement. Ray Charles could have seen that, by doing this tour, he would lose, not only lost the gay vote but the vote of their supporters.
Second: People who say this one act was not important miss the tremendous importance of smybolic politics. Republicans never do. Check it out: When racist union hater Ronald Reagan ran for office, his first speech was in Philadelphia, Mississippi, near the site where civil rights workers were murdered. This helped southern whites to see that Reagan didn't view the black struggle, indeed, black people, as being that important. When slimy John McCain ran, he went to Jones University, an institution widely viewed then and now as super racist and segregated.
Given the nature of symbolic politics, Obama and his staff should have known that the gay community would view his participation in this tour with McClurkin would say to black christians, and to the religious right, that gay rights, and gay people, aren't that important. So,understandably, the gay community and their supporters saw Obama as selling them out. That's why black columnist Ofari Hutchinson said this tour was a mistake and urged Obama to apologize.
Third: This is greater than smymbolic politics, especially for Obama. It's about character. Obama doesn't have a long track record, for the most part, character is all we have to go on. And on gay rights as well as Iraq, Obama has failed to show strong leadership. It's not enough to say you wouldn't have voted to get us into Iraq. Strong leadership says we need to get out now. And just as he blew in recent debates by fugging on the pullout of Iraq, he blew it on gay issues by hooking up with an anti-gay con artist. Instead of doing last week's tour, he could have gone to a big black church in Harlem and spoken passionately for a greater appreciation of gay rights and said that his tent will include all Americans, including members of the gay community. Had he done so, he would not only have won over gays, he could have won some black christian converts as well.
Now we don't know if he's won over any black christians. We know for damn sure he has lost the gay vote as well as the vote of many gay supporters.
And he could have done something else: shown me that he has some backbone-- the courage to stick to his principles so that, when he becomes president and the lobbyists for multi-national corporations or big insurance companies come a-callin, he'll say, "Get the f**k out of my office!"
I raised a little chump change for Rep. Keith Ellison, the first Muslim in congress, and I was going to organize for the late Paul Wellstone, a principled person as well as a skillful politician. Unfortunately, I have yet to see those qualities in Barak Obama.
And last week's disastrous tour didn't help.
'sup from the 206. this is obviously a political play. obama knows that to win this thing, he's gotta play hardball. this is not ymca basketball any more--obama's out on the asphalt at greenlake playing hoop, and he's gotta throw some elbows to get through the lane to that basket. everyone knows that obama's not a homophobe. this is just shit he's gotta do to get that south carolina vote. you saw what rove did to mccain in 2000 to get the sc vote (if you don't, ask field to post on THAT event). you gotta play hard to get heard (hey, i like how that sounds! think i'm gonna start using that!). the singer's gotta be some self-serving douche-bigelow who realised he could push gospel records by declaring the one thing that crazy evangelicals love to hear--people can 'opt out' of gay. trust me, he's no more straight than lebron's shots last night! someone should really tell him he's not helping anyone with this bullshit. i also have trouble with black people who resent people for being who they are. wtf! if anyone should know better, it's probably us. and please, commenters, you really don't have to say wether you're gay or straight in your comments....makes you sound like larry craig. unless you were doing it for irony, which would make it really cool. peace out, my people.
George...
"Q: Where is the scientific evidence that homosexuality is an inborn thing?
A: Inside of the DNA of gay people.
George"
Where is the scientific evidence that the evidence is inside the DNA of gay people?
How do you know that socialization (socialized behavior modification) can not overcome or at least significantly influence genetically programmed behavior?
y'all ready for this?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3806862&page=1
"yestergay" That's classic!
Amen brother!!
Preach!!!! Can we get a witness up in here?
Even though the minister at my church railed against homosexuality, I knew at least one gay person at my church, probably more.
In some Black churches, the authorities talk as if no one in the church could possibly be gay. Likely story!
Okay,
So what have we learned here?
Politicians can be clueless or careless and whores for a vote. Donnie McClurkin is deluded, still gay, scary and should just shut up and sing.
When will these scary religious types stop raving about who's loving or doing who and raise money for poverty programs?
@mike fischer
Why would a 6 year old boy want to play with barbie dolls?
How would a 7 year know that walkin' with a zesty step and switchin' was inappropriate behavoir for a boy?
How do you explain effeminate children especially if they've got siblings that act straight?
Do you really think those children are choosing to act gay?
"How would a 7 year know that walkin' with a zesty step and switchin' was inappropriate behavoir for a boy?
How do you explain effeminate children especially if they've got siblings that act straight?
Do you really think those children are choosing to act gay?" Anon
Would you or anyone for that matter, please tell me what is "acting" gay or straight?
How does one "act" gay or straight?
Would you also tell me if we are now determining if someone is going to be same gender loving because they are "acting" a certain way?
When a little girl likes to play with trucks and cars, are we to assume that's she's going to be a lezbian?
If a little boy likes to play with dolls, are we presuming that he is going to be gay when he starts having sexual desires?
Is it really all the same thing, or are we confusing gender identification, which is socially constructed, with sexuality?
Or is sexuality sometimes socially constructed?
"Do you really think those children are choosing to act gay?"
Why would a five year old black child choose a white doll as the "pretty one"? Is that because the black kid is genetically programmed to do so?
While we're at it.
Why do certain white people like to fuck animals? Is it a genetic predisposition? Or is there something about racism that drives then to do it?
@Mike Fisher
Many gay people have stated that they've always known they were gay. I'm not gay. But I can relate. I'm a straight black woman. I DID NOT wake up one day and CHOOSE to be straight. I've always known I've been attracted to men. Do you think straight people choose to be straight? If not, why? Are straight people born straight? Or we all just choosing our sexualities?
Black kids choose white dolls because of society's obession with white beauty. Society does not afford homosexuality the same idolation. So, your arguement is dead. Black culture in paticular is extremely homophobic. A black child, especially if he or she is raised in the black church will encounter homophobia and lots of it. So, why would they CHOOSE this lifestyle?
"Black kids choose white dolls because of society's obession with white beauty."
I'm sure you'd agree that we can make this statment a bit more precise:
"Black kids choose white dolls because of white racism's obession with white beauty."
Which begs the question: does white racism afford homosexuality the same idolation?
@anon
I saw a young brotha the other day, proably in his teens, walkin' with a ladies purse, high heel shoes, lip gloss on, and a bright green shirt. Would I be crazy to assume he was gay? Guess what? I'm going to assume he is gay. I can also apply this logic to children. Read this... I can also assume that a little boy who enjoys wearing dresses like his sisters, play with makeup and likes to play with barbies is probably going to grow up being gay. It's called probability.
Research is showing that there are some predictors regarding behavoir in children. 60 minutes did a great piece on homosexuality and the genetic component. They talked to researchers who followed many sets of identical twins from birth to adulthood. All twins lived in the same household. In some of the sets, one twin was straight and the other was gay. They had video footage and pics. You clearly saw effeminate behavoir for the young boys and masculine behavoir for the girls who later came out as gay. I do realize that there are some gays that do not exhibit this behavoir so early BUT SOME DO!
@Mike Fisher
Why don't you answer your question, first about white idolation for homosexuality?
Do you think straight people choose to be straight?
"Do you think straight people choose to be straight?"
Likely not since clearly the genitals and reproductve systems of the genders compliment each other, but I suspect that as far as homosexuality is concerned there could be an early socialization process in the works that we have not considered or sufficiently examined.
Socialization my ass. The black community does not condone homosexuality. Especially the black church. So, you're arguement is dead.
Why is little Jamal sneakin' to put on lipstic, dresses and playing with barbies. Jamal knows that if he gets caught, he gets his lil ass beat. That's how we do in our families. How many black families do you know socialize their children for homosexuality.
"Why is little Jamal sneakin' to put on lipstic, dresses and playing with barbies. Jamal knows that if he gets caught, he gets his lil ass beat. That's how
we do in our families. How many black families do you know socialize their children for homosexuality."
I fail to understand how this behavior has anything to do with the little boy liking other boys. What you have described is an adoption of gender roles that is contrary to what we say boys should do. Is that gay? Is gay something other the an the act of having sexual attraction for the same gender? Please help me understand.
Furthermore, I wish that people would stop saying that you can't choose to be gay. Just because there are some that may indeed have been born gay (I don't know...), does not mean the idea of others choosing this path to enjoy sexual intimacy is totally out of the question.
Let's use some logic here. People experiment. People also often decide to choose paths in life to suit whatever they are thinking they want at that time. I honestly believe that there are some, especially women, who decide, after being in numerous failed relationships or no relationships with men, to try being with other women. Why wouldn't you think that's a possibility.
Just wondering...
Apology to black americans:
http://subfighter63.blogspot.com/
@ang
Can you turn around and apply the same arguement to heterosexuals? Are you cable of doing that? Or does your arguement only exist for homosexuals? if it does, than it's dead. Sexuality and 'CHOICE' goes both way. If someone is choosing homosexuality than most of us are choosing heterosexuality. That's bullshit. I did not choose my heterosexuality. I was born this way. Maybe you bat both ways and you live your life with choice. But I don't. I was born straight.
Re-read my POSTS(pluraral). I discuss the PROBABILITY of behavoir associated with gender identification. I didn't say this example fits all gay people. And yes, researchers have discovered a link between behavoir associated with gender identification to sexuality. Does it mean that ALL homosexuauls can be classified by behavoir - NO!!! We all know some women marry very straight acting men. So, obviously you can't go on behavoir alone BUT SOMETIMES YOU CAN. If you feel comfortable dating an effimante man who likes to wear lipstic, heels and booty shorts in public because you don't believe behvoir or dress associated with gender indentification matters, that's your stupid ass choice. As for me, no thanks.
If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck - it COULD be a duck. I'm sorry you 're unable to see that probablity.
I sincerely believe that most gays were born that way. I also believe that some (NOT ALL) gay children exhibit behavoir identified with the opposite sex. So my barbie/Jamal arguement STILL stands.
I have a friend that knew when he was ten or eleven years old, he was gay.
And until I left Texas, I watched his father beat that ass, trying to beat the "gayness" out of him.
Didn't work. Brotha is now 48 years old, and is still gay. That's why I don't buy McClurkin's argument that being raped by his pedophile uncle and cousin led him to become gay. The cousin may have pounced on him because the gay characteristics were prevelant in young Donnie back then.
No one willingly "chooses" to be something that they know is going to earn at the very least, disdain and disownment from their family; at worse, physical abuse and DEATH.
And if McClurkin was "cured" you'd think he'd hit the road to show other homosexuals how to be "cured", wouldn't he?
Like someone said upthread, he should shut up and sing, and let Obama clean up the mess they both made.
Excellent post! How you just switch from coochie to dyck and back to coochie?!?!?! WTF! Pick a side...
A hell of a lot of these homophobic black churches would collaspe without their gay members. Not only that, but without gays, there wouldn't be much of a black gospel music business.
It is unfair that people take child mostation like it's a damn joke. When a girl is molested and become sexually promiscuous were they born that way?
Donnie was violated as a CHILD he did not have the RIGHT to develop his sexually in normal development stages he could have been born gay or “turned out”. I see all the testosterone flying around here, but you missed the point: Molestation retards sexual growth in children. You don’t know if he choosing to be "gay" was driven by HIS trauma of molestation or if it was more genetically derived. I think Donnie knows which better than any of you. Men who have sex with men (MSM) who are victims of childhood sexual abuse are more likely to engage in homosexual behavior than other MSMs, say researchers from UCSF's Center for AIDS Prevention (CAPS). The study, published in the April issue of Child Abuse & Neglect, found that about one fifth (20.6%) of all MSMs experienced childhood sexual abuse--a rate that is higher than prevalence estimates for the general male population. There are many women who were molested by men and feel discomfort and repulsed by men with men and live a lesbian lifestyle. Same sex molestation has an impact whether you people think it does or not.
Tracee has it exactly right.
Field Negro, you're drinking the cool-aid of the gay propaganda machine.
I personally question the machines insistence that homosexuality goes to the bone--so to speak.
Realize that it is in the gay lobbyists interests to (1) claim that homosexuality is nature, and nothing at all to do with nurture. This allows the gays to claim "rights" and "protections"--sometimes at the expense of Black folks--as homosexuality--like race and gender--are immutable characteristics.
It also allows gays to keep their pools ever expanding, and never retrenching. Once gay, always gay--even when the label is opposed by the accused gay himself. (The practice of identity drafting is just so passe. Even Jet(Mag.) has stopped drafting Cablasian-identified as black. The gays should this too.) The more gays, the larger the political base that can be claimed by the gays.
Also, this insistence of maintaining people as gays even those with histories of abuse also helps the gay community to avoid societal focus and condemnation of a fairly common and widely accepted practice within the gay community--man-boy relations.
As mere description--not judgement, the gay community--maybe, particularly the white male gay community--is particularly youth-obsessed. And many within the gay community consider man-boy relations a rite of passage almost for young homosexuals. I believe this is why the molestation is given short shrift--and no concern--by gays in their "outrage" about McClurkin's declarations.
I don't think we should buy into this. I think we do when we dismiss McClurkin's insistence that his homosexuality was born of his abuse.
Furthermore, to my ears, this is another effort by the gay community to elevate their interests by borrowing on the vilification of black men to condemn a perceive homophobic sentiment or practice. Nothing garners as much condemnation as a Black poster child.
Tracee's point also stands to reason. If one's only sexual experiences have been with gay men , one might come coto believe he is gay--even though this might not be his native orientation--if, indeed, homosexuality is a native orientation.
How could it be of all the sexual expressions a person can make that only male homosexuality wouldn't have a nurture component? We can accept that being drawn to "forbidden sex" can be conditioned by experiences--strict upbringing or sex--stolen in the shadows. We're willing to accept that attraction to abusive or exploitive relations can be based on nurture. Many even gender expressions (acting like a girl, e.g.) can be nurtured.
So, why not homosexuality? Doesn't make sense to me that this would be so.
Indeed, I believe that the willingness of heterosexuals to accept this thinking is sourced in homophobia. It is just that some can't imagine a male especially engaging in same-sex relationship unless the male is biologically programmed to do so.
I don't this is true. I believe the breadth of same-sex sexual activity in jail suggests otherwise. It might be that all of those engaged in same-sex relations in jail were latent homosexuals outside but I doubt it.
Furthermore, it seems to me that for a kid--especially--that one can be genitally stimulated by almost anything (even a cherry pie)--and then be set of a course--believing that that is the only path towards sexual gratification--and not be programmed that way.
Moreover, I think there is extensive reasons to otherwise believe that homosexuality is nurtured. One, there are those who see a correlation--possibly causation--between homosexuality and the kind of relationship a kid has with his father. Myself, I wonder whether especially in regard to "flamers" if homosexuality is not connected to a lack--and, therefore, need for attention. Many homosexuals--to my eyes--seem to be groping for meaning and attention from the group they have been conditioned to believe matters most--men--in the way in which women secure it.
This--again--seems to be a product of nurture. I don't know why it would necessarily be that because a man is attracted to another man biologically that he would assume an even exaggerated expression of perceived femininity. Gay men don't have more estrogen than women, for example. I know there are possible other explanations but one is that the "homosexuality" is born of the need to secure meaning--and therefore attention--a possibly nurtured condition.
Finally, in this regard, consider the lesbians. Most lesbians would easily agree that they are capable of being attracted to men--and not biologically and solely programmed as lesbians.
Finally, specifically about McClurkin, McClurking has not claimed that every male homosexual has come to homosexuality the way he has. (Quite generous for a Pentecostal minister.) Nor has he claimed that all gays can be "cured." (Another quite generous allowance for a Pentecostal minsiter.) He has simply observed that he believes that his homosexuality was born of sexual abuse and a lack of heterosexual male role models. McClurking believes that some others might have walked along his path--and it is of them he speaks.
Great comment.
So, why is Donnie M. still phucking men. Read the previous posts. Someone's going to out that lying ass man.
And if homosexuality is proved not to be genetic, then what would that mean? Nothing, as far as I'm concerned. It may be uncomfortable for me to see two guys kissing and holding hands, but is it really any of my damn business? I don't have the right to make them stop, even if I wanted to. Whether or not homosexuality is genetic is not relevant.
When ever some one uses the word "homophobic" in discussion about gays, it's the end of that discussion for me.
Why do you have to make me out to have an unreasonable fear of homos because I believe it's impossible for two gay men or women to be married?
If someone is gay, fine, WFcares? But when I see overt displays of abnormal behavior, including public sex acts, why am I labeled "homophobic" if I think it's disgusting?
And why in God's name do you think it's OK?
MM
ok i'm sorry but this is ridiculous. i know the black community is all kinds of homophobic, so i guess i'm not "surprised" by the kinds of comments i'm seeing here, but i am mad as hell. i'm gonna try and keep this short, but i do have a WHOLE lot to say.
a) and maybe this will help yall answer all the questions you have that i don't have time to get to: homophobia is a lot like racism. think it over, let it sit with you for a while. what might that mean? well if someone says they think black people are not as smart as white people, you might call them a racist. they might think "how come every time i express a negative opinion about black people i'm a racist?" but you still think they're racist? right? same thing. if you say you think gay people don't deserve to get married, a gay person might think "hey, that's homophobic." why? because you think homosexuality is a negative thing.
b) from a couple posts up:
"Finally, in this regard, consider the lesbians. Most lesbians would easily agree that they are capable of being attracted to men--and not biologically and solely programmed as lesbians."
what. the. fuck? do you KNOW any lesbians or are you basing this off of your $5 adult films you keep under your bed? most lesbians would easily agree that they are attracted to women. thats why they call themselves lesbians. if they were attracted to men, they'd be bisexual. or straight.
c) the reason people are offended by McClurkin's claims about being sexually abused as a child is not because they're not taking it seriously. its because he is trying to imply that gay = abused as a child. which is not true, and which is really insulting for all the gay people out there who are really just gay, and don't want people thinking "oh you're fucked up because you were abused."
d) PEOPLE, read a book, and then start commenting on a blog. this post is about obama and mcclurkin, yet as i read the comments all of a sudden its turned into an argument about whether a boy who plays with barbies is gay. grow up.
ok i have a lot more to say, but let me just end with this: this post was about obama and mcclurkin, and field, i have to disagree with you on this one. Obama fucked up. this isn't about picking up one little thing and bringing him down, this is about him making a monumental error that's exposed a weakness he's had all along: the fact that he's mad conservative. so cheer for him all you want because he's a black man, but he threw the gays under the bus with this, he'll do it again if he gets elected. he voted to build a wall between the US and mexico. he's just not that liberal. i know you WANT him to be a field negro, but he's just not, and this is just one of many examples of that. so yeah, obama would have lost my vote on this. if he had it in the first place.
I have totally slept on this story on my own blog and I'm going to have to get on it. So this is a warmup. First off, in my view, the way people are bashing the black church as homophobic is every bit as biased and prejudiced as you claim the church behaves against gays. Christian teachings are quite clear that homosexuality is immoral, sinful behavior, just like fornication, just like adultery and any number of other activities that are not considered to be consonant with a Christian lifestyle. The church is not "homophobic". The church's teaching is clear. The fact that gay people dislike this teaching because it condemns the behavior they are engaging in, does not make it homophobia. We don't apply this line of reasoning to the other things; nobody runs around saying the church is adulterphobic, or fornicataphobic and people are doing plenty of that too.
I'm a Christian. I believe homosexuality to be immoral behavior based on scripture. That does not make me "homophobic" which Webster defines as an irrational fear or aversion to homosexuals.
Nor in my view is it homophobia for McClurkin or anyone else to advance the position that if someone is engaging in homosexual behavior and desires to change that, they can and furthermore they should. Advancing such a position is no basis to claim that they are expressing an irrational fear or aversion of gays. And whether you believe McClurkin to be a hypocrite or not doesn't change that.
This is simply a comment on the "If It's about Class and Not Race..." Economic disparity breeds racism. Poor people look for scapegoats to blame for their condition while those in power use any means to hold on. Economic opportunities and cultural respect that is taught within all levels of society are some solutions.
Too bad the situation is made worse in our country with the systemic support of racism within the prison system to keep out solidarity. My buddy who spent 4yrs in Texass feels that the Cuban Prison Model could be used to eliminate or at least weaken racist gangs.
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