Saturday, December 05, 2009

Sorry, he doesn't quite fit our corporate image.

*
I have been struggling with something since W's recession hit us, and maybe some of you racism apologist can help me with this. Why is it that the unemployment rate for black folks with college degrees is twice that of what it is for their white counterparts? And higher, even, than whites with less credentials?

I know that the unemployment rate for black males is something like 17%, and that's high. But given the amount of black men without college degrees and criminal records etc., I can somewhat understand that. But how do the racism apologist explain the number of college educated African Americans standing in the unemployment line? Oh field, it's because they get degrees in meaningless disciplines like psychology and communications, so they are overqualified for some jobs and "under qualified" for others. As a result they are left out of the job market. It has nothing to do with their race. Stop your whining, everything isn't about racism. Here in A-merry-ca all you have to do is work hard, get your degree, and you will live the A-merry-can dream....Yeah that's the ticket.

I was listening to Michael Medved the other day, and he is a man I disagree with maybe 99% of the time. He was even saying that while America has come a long way when it comes to matters of race, these new unemployment numbers clearly showed that racism still exists in America.

Of course some...scratch that; damn near all of his conservative callers disagreed. They chalked it up to everything from cultural differences and the need for a comfort level with similar people in the work place, to affirmative action making whites think that even black folks with college degrees were not qualified. It was painful to listen to. And even Medved seemed embarrassed for his peeps.

The irony, of course, is that while most whites think that his O ness is doing a bad job primarily because of the unemployment rate; most of the people who are unemployed (and the primary reason for the high numbers in the first place) are black folks just like his O ness. A-merry-ca is in a recession. But black A-merry-ca is going through a depression.

Sadly, a great part of the problem is us. We do need to take control of our own businesses and become more entrepreneurial in our endeavours so that we can do the hiring instead of depending on other folks to hire us. Still, some of these large companies- with their last hired first fired [Negro] policies- need to get checked. We patronize those companies, and many of them get corporate welfare. Welfare which comes from tax dollars that some of us black folks who are actually working have to pay.

So for all of you who think we are in a post racial A-merry-ca, slow down the love train just a little. There aren't just two colors in A-merry-ca that we need to reconcile. There are three: Black, white, and green.


*Pic courtesy of AOL Black Voices.


178 comments:

SmashedtheTinyBlackBox said...

Sadly, a great part of the problem is us. We do need to take control of our own businesses and become more entrepreneurial in our endeavours so that we can do the hiring instead of depending on other folks to hire us

Ahhh, but if we do that we're not being open or tolerant. It's Racist!!!

I'm being sarcastic. You are 100% correct.

As a business owner, we have to advertise to our communities in a more effective manner. Secondly, we have superior cust. service, prices, and be grateful for the business we get.

This is what we must do in order to be considered on par with white businesses...among our own people no less. Their ice is cooler is still a problem.
Everyone else looks out for their own. We don't because we were taught to hate ourselves. Hating ourselves ties in with most of the problems we face.

I've noticed that some black applicants for a job occasionally think less of the business solely because it's black owned. Some think they can slack off. They wouldn't do that for a white employer. I like to warn these folks first, then fire them.

On the whole, most of the job applicants of any race I encounter graduated from public high schools and community colleges. About 60% of them lack the basic math and writing skills (probably 10th grade level) to complete the tasks. I also see a lack of critical thinking skills. Hagwons, schools after school, are very popular where I live because the public schools are not getting the job done. The closest thing to a Hagwon in America is Kumon or Sylvan. Maybe our communities need to follow suit. If our churches can do smaller, affordable ones, it could keep the kids off the street after school hours.

That said, the best employee I ever hired, I mean someone you wish you could clone, was a Black woman. I still long for a p.a. that has her sense of efficiency. My personal hiring preferences, assuming all applicants are reasonably qualified and depending on the job description in order are younger black women 21-28, (not that I don't like the men in this age range, but that is just too much temptation for a woman!), black men in their 30-40s. Most of my applicants are women. Other non whites are usually considered before whites. Why? they have more opportunities at white owned companies. They will generally will run to a white owned company, regardless of my reputation.

I think we need to also look long term, support black boarding schools (the four that are left), and universities and tell them, as businesses owners what we expect and what we need from the graduates.

So tired of being in this last hired....situation a century later. Time to change this.

RiPPa said...

"affirmative action making whites think that even black folks with college degrees were not qualified."

And they really think that shit too!

The problem is that people are of the opinion that racism rides a horse, wears a robe, a pointy had and is a pyromaniac. To understand race matters "certain people" must understand its systematic application.

Speaking of all this depression shit and people of color field. Have you ever wondered why you never see any homeless Asian people? When you figure that one out holla at ya boy and lemme know, will ya?

SmashedtheTinyBlackBox said...

he irony, of course, is that while most whites think that his O ness is doing a bad job primarily because of the unemployment rate; most of the people who are unemployed (and the primary reason for the high numbers in the first place) are black folks just like his O ness.

Did not his O ness tell non-black America in his "get pookie off the couch speech" that the black community will not get any real help from him? It just warmed their hearts while selling us out. Sorry, that's just how I feel.

Yes, I know, he's president of the entire country. I also believe that if the senators dole out the debauched currency funny money to the corporate welfare giants, thus making everyone pay more in costs of living, taxes and the hidden tax of inflation, his O-ness could at least give OUR kids SOMETHING. I realize local corruption is always an issue, but how about better funding for superior teachers where they are needed most? Vouchers maybe?

brohammas said...

Sure it's racism, and sure creating one's own jobs is a great answer....
but as an outsider who spends a considerable amount of time on the wrong side of the fence, It seems that when black voices, be it TV or radio, encourage black entreprenurial ventures it is a for us by us scenario.
Wouldn't it be a more likely success to focus on a "by us for everyone" model? The more FUBU there is, the tighter that little market becomes...

So I say yes more black business... but more black business in the general, not the niche, market.

Anonymous said...

So why do black women outpace black men in not only the work world but also school? They have to deal with the double prejudice: They are black and they are female.

Anonymous said...

"Have you ever wondered why you never see any homeless Asian people? When you figure that one out holla at ya boy and lemme know, will ya?"

That's easy. The Asians have strong family ties that support each other- much like the Jews. Blacks are fractured and struggle with low self-worth, jealousy and low self-esteem...a crab mentality.

The truth is that most Blacks 'talk the walk' of supporting one another, but 'rarely' 'walk the talk'. They are more prone to pull one another down like big nosed April tried to do to Rogers, the First Lady, and by extension the President. Many Blacks have lived their lives based on a "deprivation model"--which means many are in survival mode most of the time. They are too self-centered, selfish and envious of each other; because they think there just isn't enough room for very many Blacks to be successful. That is why it is easy to pit Blacks against Blacks...Not so with Asians.

My experience with my own folks is that most of the time, they will sell each other down the drain. I can't count the number of times I have been betrayed by my own people. Many do not honor and respect each other enough and futhermore, don't value their own words.

In an American capitalistic system laced with racism, no group can survive, let alone advance, with that kind of attitude.

Anonymous said...

"Sadly, a great part of the problem is us. We do need to take control of our own businesses and become more entrepreneurial in our endeavours so that we can do the hiring instead of depending on other folks to hire us."

Didn't we have this discussion about our problem and lack of businesses in our community when that young black girl shot and killed that elderly Asian woman in her store in Germantown, Philly? And didn't we talk about something similar before that story? and before that? Haven't we been talking about this matter for decades-and maybe even longer, and NOTHING has changed?

So can we skip the bullshit and go on to something else?

Anonymous said...

So can we skip the bullshit and go on to something else?

that's the problem with blacks.....lazy not willing to put forth any effert to solve a difficult problem.....wait anon 1:10 maybe if you yell loud enough your magic negro and his magic majority will solve it for you?

Plantsmantx said...

"So can we skip the bullshit and go on to something else?"

Like what?

alicia banks said...

ditto fn:

racism is no relic

racism is the ONLY valid reason for the disparity

and the biracial obama/gwb 2.0 could not care less...

re: comm degrees

i have 2 sp comm degrees that have served me very well
a BA in sp comm/pre-law
&
a MA in interpersonal & organizational comm

i have had great corp successes as an instructor/trainer/educator etc

i am blessed to be a corp admin now...but i do not feel that anyone is securely employed beyond 1/2010

that is why i work 4 jobs/ 2 of which i own as a self employer...

anyone with ny job today is blessed...by the grace of god...

alicia banks said...

ps:

my comm degrees allowed me great media careers in radio and print but also trained me for flexible roles in corp america...

ANY field of study requires diligence and diversity to pay off...

alicia banks said...

obama is president of the mega rich
exclusively

ALL of the rest of us of all races will become more unemployed each day!

http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/black-jobs-prospects-descending-%E2%80%9Cdeeper-level-hell%E2%80%9D

http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/black-caucus-shows-displeasure-obama-jobs-avoids-confrontation

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

Tell it, Field Negro!!

Tell it!

konagod said...

Having been a product of the Mississippi Delta, I have seen racism alive and well my entire life. However, that being said, I still had no idea it was SO alive until Obama got into the aptly named White House.

Just look at the opinion polls in Arkansas of W's approval ratings in 2007. On a red to blue scale, it was Massachusetts blue. And how deceiving that proved to be in the general election.

The state went even MORE Republican than it had when it re-elected Bush in 2004. All that blue dissatisfaction easily went red when facing black prospects.

The Angry Independent said...

Amen Field!!!

To quote your quote...
"Here in A-merry-ca all you have to do is work hard, get your degree, and you will live the A-merry-can dream...."

I realized several years ago that this whole thing was a hoax.

It has made me even angrier and disappointed with the Country and the human race over the past decade. It's a wonder that I haven't snapped yet.

Reading & listening to Barbara Ehrenreich made this even more clear for me. She reinforced ideas and beliefs I already had.... she really breaks down the American economy. The last 16 years, especially the last 10, have opened my eyes in terms of the American facade. It has been like the adult equivalent of learning that Santa isn't real and that Christmas is just a BS Holiday. (The American Dream isn't real either). I wish someone would have told me a Hell of a lot sooner.

And if you are Black... it's even harder.


And I'm with Dalyn, Blacks often fall into the trap of "By Blacks...for Blacks...".

I have also argued that "By Blacks for Everyone" is a much better model.

It's one of those things about "Black culture" that I just don't understand and will probably never understand.

The Angry Independent said...

Off topic:

Just to mess w/ you Field.

Youtube vid (spoof) by one of your supporters, who is also in favor of more gun restrictions for law abiding citizens.

copy & paste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER8Ieop6_Jc

FlyNMy40s said...

I tell all my younger relatives interested in majoring in fields like psych and communications: get a second major in something else (like Spanish) so you'll stand out amoung the sea of similarily majored folks like yourself.

One solid solution to the unemployment problem amoung Blacks is to encourage them to major in fields like allied health, science and engineering since these fields are almost always "bankable" even during a recession. But alas, those smart and motivated enough to go this route will likely one day be confronted by an anon jealous jerk calling them fake due in large part to the crab in a bucket mentality so prevelant amoung blacks.

Speaking of crabs in a bucket, how many of us in positions to hire Black folks have done so, then been burned to a crisp by Black folks?

In my experience, Black folks will screw you harder and longer than any white person I've every come across. Especially a Black woman and especially if you look half way decent.

field negro said...

SmashedtheTinyBox, You nailed it. I feel your pain on this one.

And this statement:

"I've noticed that some black applicants for a job occasionally think less of the business solely because it's black owned. Some think they can slack off. They wouldn't do that for a white employer. I like to warn these folks first, then fire them."

tends to be true.

And I love what you are saying about the educational system as well. We need to rethink how we do things. I actually agree with conservatives on many aspects of the voucher issue.

Rippa, I actually blogged about that question a long time ago.
Anon 12:54 am, did a good job of answering it.


"So I say yes more black business... but more black business in the general, not the niche, market."

brohammas, that is an interesting point. The problem is that it takes a larger amount of capital to market products to a larger market, and black folks don't have that type of capital. We usually have to start slow and concentrate on a niche market. Again, we are getting into that whole chicken and egg thing again. :(

"So why do black women outpace black men in not only the work world but also school? They have to deal with the double prejudice: They are black and they are female."

They are smarter.:)

Seriously,I have heard a number of explanations for that. From the lalck of male role models at home to the lack of black male teachers in the schools.

"And didn't we talk about something similar before that story? and before that? Haven't we been talking about this matter for decades-and maybe even longer, and NOTHING has changed?

So can we skip the bullshit and go on to something else?"

Ahh NO! We will keep talking about it until we get it right.

Some of us are actually trying to do something about it instead of talk.

konagod,the balkanization in A-merry-ca has reached epic proportions. It's red state vs. blue state and the racial dynamic seems to be driving everythig.
Obama or no Obama.

AI, I whink more and more of us are getting hip to the game. The best way to make it in A-merry-ca is to build your own wealth and make your own way. You can't depend on any of these companies.

You will work 30 years, and if you are lucky, get a gold watch and a ss check while you drool from your rocking chair in a crappy nursing home.

"..ANY field of study requires diligence and diversity to pay off..."

AB, that might be true. But aren't some degrees in more demand than others?

Jody said...

There is no question that these numbers are a result of systemic racism. And, given that the overwhelming majority of the people of this country are struggling for resources that are limited for us... I think that in addition to looking at each other and trying to work this through... we ALSO need to all turn our collective heads to the corporate elites (Goldman Sachs projects 20 BILLION IN BONUSES TO THEIR BANKERS!!!) and say hell no!

We cannot continue to fight for the crumbs.... to engage in the divide and conqueor strategy while those that control the overwhelming amount of wealth in this country sit behind their gated community locked doors with piles and piles of money MADE FROM OUR SWEAT PEOPLE!!!! It is our labor that produces their wealth...

We need micro banking. We need to restore regulations that were stripped out during the Reagan Revolution that concentrated the wealth in fewer hands. Time for them to stop hoarding or time for them to go. I personally vote time for them to go!!!

Frank Drackman said...

Field, Field, its all a matter of "Marketable Skills"
If I ever need someone to smoke the Marriage-Wana, Steal a Car, or make a Rap Album, I'll call the local Rent-A-Nigger, I mean employment agency....
Seriously, I probably employ 10x the minorities you do...check this out..

Accountant: Russian Jewish Immigrant

Attorney: Another Jew

Security Consultant:(OK he just did my alarm system) Bosnian, with a big ass scar on his face from the war.

Nanny: Ukranian, doesn't speaka mucha da English but brews a mean Cappuchino

Lawn/Pool Maintenance: Legal Guatemalan Immigrants, well I think they are, who am I?? an INS agent???

Kitchen: African American...OK, "LeRoy" doesn't really work in my kitchen, he works at the local Popeyes, but he might as well as much as I use the Drive Through...

How bout YOU Field, how many "Bruthas" on your payroll, and I don't mean Joe Rags the Janitor...

Frank

Anonymous said...

I think what you are looking at is a real failure of integration. How else can you explain the massive differences in black and white unemployment rates? Not to mention that integration proved to be the death knell for most black businesses. It's time for a return to black nationalism and a focus on the black community. Obama isn't going to do that; he needs too many white votes. Only the black community can, or will address these problems.

Kristen said...

Yes, I'm white. No, I don't have a college degree. Yes, I have a job. I also agree 99.9% with everything said here.
One point: Poor America is going through a depression. Poor America that doesn't fit the poverty-level determination guidelines that haven't been updated, (in factors considered,) except for cost of living/inflation, since the 60's, is hurting.
Oddly enough, many poor white people still buy into the racist cant that blames black and brown people for white people's economic oppression. The, "Tea Party," folk are being manipulated into a frenzy by people with money and power, into railing against their own best interests. This is incredibly depressing.
If poor, ignorant white people could see the green first, we might all have a shot at getting some damn parity and holding the people in power accountable. :(

Laci the Chinese Crested said...

I don't trust US unemployment statistics given that they aren't accurate. That is one needs to apply for unemployment compensation be to counted, which leaves out people who have never been employed, those who have used up their benefits, etcetera.

Could another possibility be that Blacks have lived in economically challenged areas (the cities and poorer suburbs)?

I dislike Obama since he is far too conservative for my tastes, but the US has been heading in that direction for a long time.

I think hanging the skewed US employment statistics on race totally distracts from the fact that the poor in the US have been divided and conquered. Poor blacks don't see their affinity with poor whites and vice versa (along with other poor groups). The US is also super at using its wedge issues to distract from getting done what needs to be done: e.g., using abortion to torpedo health care.

I am sorry the Frontlines doumentary "the War on Poverty" isn't available on DVD as it gets into these issues. in particular, how race was used to kill the war.

The Smoking Ace said...

You are right on that field. There are so many black people that are unemployed and also under-employed. I have felt that since I graduated college due to friends of mine either moving away to get a nice job or going to grad school just to find out that those jobs out there that do require master degrees really does not belong to you, but to their friend that may want to come back because they screwed up somewhere else.

John B. said...

Here in Milwaukee there's a real perception, right or wrong, by African-American professionals that companies won't give them a break no matter how qualified. Those who get degrees leave for greener pastures. Hence the Black community here is disproportionately under-educated. It's a vicious cycle.

I will say that my own employer, Harley-Davidson, has been exemplary about hiring and promoting African-Americans to high positions. This despite the customer base being overwhelmingly white.

Anonymous said...

Black Unemplyoment-

Bureau of Labor Statistics data show the overall black unemployment rate at 15.4 per cent: 16.5 percent for adult men, 12.5 for adult women and 40.8 per cent for teenagers. Some economists estimate that the actual overall rate is in the 30 to 35 percent range, with the 'unofficial' teenage rate far surpassing the 50 per cent mark. These rates remain unchanged even as the overall rate, as of the end of November, has dropped from 10.1 to 10 percent.

I researched this and founded that while these numbers are high they actually are about average with the lowest numbers i found (going back as far as April) at 11-12%.

I believe the numbers are much lower for Black women than Black men due to the fact that most Black women have been for decades the bread winners in the family.

Until Black males stop the finger pointing and start taking responciblity for thier families these numbers will continue to rise for Black males.

It starts with education.Certainly as a child it's the parent's responciblity BUT, as that child becomes older (middle and high school) the child has to begin to take on some of that responsiblity.

When a child become say high school age the parent should not have to walk that child from class to class, nor should they have to stand over thier shoulder and tell them to stop talking and listen to the teacher and do thier work.

I say these things because i deal with these issues in a large high school and have for years. This high school is located in a predonmatly Black section of my city. In the last four years the Black male student dropout numbers have gone out the roof while the dropout numbers for Black females droped. Also the dropout numbers for Hispanic males have dropped.

As i said i deal with disciplinary issues. The Black males are the most difficult to deal in part and due to the fact they simply want to walk out of the school. No other student (including Black females) display such lack of self control.

These children (and they are children even at 17 yo)don't just magically appear at high school with these problems. everyone of us here know this starts at home. Until more Black males start to take responsiblity for thier children this problem will not only contenuie but will get worse. Pointinh at finger at and blaming racism isn't going to help. Whites ARE NOT in the Black homes. Once the doors are closed it's your homr no one else's.

YES, there is racism in this world there are always going to be those that hate and having those in prominent positions doesn't make it any easyer. All races have to work together to solve that problem if it's one person at a time. But it's up to the Black family to teach these young men right from wrong and provide them with a sense of pride in they're self when we send them off to school.

It starts there at home and there's no other way around it.

uptownsteve said...

"So why do black women outpace black men in not only the work world but also school?"

I would dispute this.

Black men still earn more than black women and in the sales profession of which I'm a part of, black men far outpace black women.

In numbers and performance.

As far as education, in the last twenty years women across racial lines have outpaced men.

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve said...
"So why do black women outpace black men in not only the work world but also school?"

I would dispute this.

show some numbers steve?

EVERY survey done shows Bblack females out do black males in actually holding a job....inevery state!

uptownsteve said...

Let's see one.

Anonymous said...

the 'official' Bureau of Labor Statistics data show the overall black unemployment rate at 15.4 per cent: 16.5 percent for adult men, 12.5 for adult women.

how about that steve?

The Bureau of Labor Statistics?

uptownsteve said...

"I think what you are looking at is a real failure of integration. How else can you explain the massive differences in black and white unemployment rates? Not to mention that integration proved to be the death knell for most black businesses."

Prior to integration most black businesses were mom and pop operations that catered to a local black only clientele.

The black vs white unemployment rates 50 years ago were comparable to if not higher than today.

Until the recent recession, black businesses were being started at a higher rate than any other ethnic group.

http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2004/05/24/story4.html

They also fail at a higher rate for a variety of reasons.

Mainly due to the self-hatred and defeatism displayed by "Flyinmy40s", "Anonymous" and others.

The white man's ice is always colder, right negroes?

Anonymous said...

crikets......huh? steve

uptownsteve said...

Anonymous,

I'd like to see some hard data, not your rants.

A combined 16.5 for (black) men and a 12.4 for black women doesn't average out to 15.4 percent for the entire black workforce unless there are more black men working than black women.

Black men still earn more.

http://www.womensmedia.com/new/Lips-Hilary-gender-wage-gap.shtml

grinder said...

that's the problem with blacks.....lazy not willing to put forth any effert to solve a difficult problem.....wait anon 1:10 maybe if you yell loud enough your magic negro and his magic majority will solve it for you?

That's a flat-out racist statement. Yeah, there is a contingent of black people who never worked an honest day in their life and never will, but then there is the majority. Black people have historically worked harder for less than most people.

Lord knows that I come to this blog as a white man and don't pull a whole lot of punches, but this comment I'm reacting to has pushed a major buttom with me. The idea that blacks are lazy is a gigantic, steaming pile of horseshit a hundred miles high. It offends the fuck out of me to read it, and I'm (obviously) not black. It is a monstrous lie. Period, end of sentence, end of goddamned paragraph.

Field, I read the same story you did, and it disturbed me a lot. There is much to say about black people and careers and business, but I want to address the narrow point, and the first comment to make is that, yes, there is plenty of racism left. It comes in a bunch of forms, and one of them is "risk reduction."

As soon as times get tight, the people who make the hiring decisions, most of whom are white, retreat to what they think is tried and true, members of their own group. They perceive it as less risky. I think that, rather than hostility, is the main dynamic.

To hire a black candidate for a significant job is to go out somewhat on a limb. In tough times, people are more conscious of scrutiny and risk. Why is hiring black seen as risky? There's where the racism comes in, i.e., an underlying sense among many white people that blacks are inherently less qualified for whatever position comes along.

I'm not defending any of it. I am explaining it, and that's what I think the explanation is. The killer was the story of the black applicants who fully "get it," but whose efforts to be "non-threatening" fail the minute they walk into the restaurant and the hiring committee sees them. The story sent a chill up my spine.

grinder said...

As for the larger question of blacks in business, whole books could be written, and have. I'll make a few comments, as someone who went to business school with some black people and who's been around in general. My comments will be a little disconnected. I'm going to throw out observations and not try to connect them or reconcile them, so there could be contradictions. Life does that, so bear with me.

With a few exceptions, blacks are recent arrivals to the middle class, let alone the upper reaches. White collar folkways are still new and often bewildering. Everyone continues to feel each other out.

The historic route to the middle class for blacks was the railroads and some government jobs, typically the Post Office and local government. In the '60s and '70s, some big companies instituted affirmative action and diversity efforts.

Blacks, as a group, have struggled for a handhold. For them, all of life has been a risk, so a solid middle class job in government or big company was the promised land, a goal to be reached. For whites, who are more accustomed to middle class employment and upper class dreams, such jobs are often seen as stepping stones, or even as constraints.

Imagine if Bill Gates had been black. Would be have dropped out of Harvard after a year to form his own company with the intention of competing against IBM? Would he have been complaining openly about IBM's rotten software code? Or would he have stayed at Harvard and hoped to find a senior executive job with IBM?

Blacks don't generally take the entrepreneurial risks that whites do. It takes self-confidence to do that, and self-confidence is a multi-faceted thing that begins with a sense that, whatever happens, you fit somewhere into the world around you.

Blacks don't have the same personal networks, or the base of wealth. Bill Gates's father is a highly successful lawyer in Seattle. They had money to begin with. Gates went to private schools. Dad paid for Harvard. Bill never would've lived under a bridge, and no one would have called him a shiftless loser no-count stereotype if things hadn't worked out. More importantly, he wouldn't have called himself that. He'd have tried something else.

Blacks don't dream big enough dreams. It's totally understandable, but it also keeps them back. Beyond that, in general, as a group, the social disaster is crippling. Three-quarters of black babies are born out of wedlock, and nearly 40% without a father anywhere in the picture. The Bill Gates example notwithstanding, a lot of highly successful white business people came from much lower backgrounds. Very few of them were without families the way so many black people are.

And then there is education. If the family situation isn't tragic enough, what is an absolute killer is the anti-education culture among so many black people. You know, the whole "acting white" crap. That is very real, whatever the defensive people here will say. It's been verified through research conducted by black academics. That phenomenon is present among low-class whites, but to a much lower extent.

Also, there is among many blacks an ethic of current consumption. It's hardly unique to blacks, but the bling culture is almost uniquely destructive to blacks. As a group, blacks don't have much to begin with. If there was ever a group of people who collectively ought to be saying, "Screw the bling, we have to invest in the next generation," it is black people.

grinder said...

Family, education, investment, and future. That's really what it is about. Other groups have done it. Jews arrived as immigrants in significant numbers at the turn of the 20th century, and that's how they got ahead. Chinese arrived here as railroad slaves, or damn close to it. They are now significantly richer than average. Japanese Americans had everything stolen from them in 1942, yet they have rebounded.

Blacks should be studying those groups and emulating them. In particular, they should be going to every athlete and entertainer and saying in no uncertain terms: That is not your money. You will invest it in your community or we will boycott your black ass. Etc etc.

Anonymous said...

grinder your kidding right? to say that someone would gire or keep a white over a black simply because of color is just plain crazy! any company that followed these practices would go under and wouldn't matter anyway,

the only common sense decision would be to keep the best, most reliable employee.that insane to say an employer would let a black employee go IF they were'nt the best most reliable!

oh, let's keep the white dude even though he doesn't show up everyday and even though he doesn't do as good a job as the black dude.

and steve a black man may make more on average salary wise but just because you have one black guy making 40k and 20 black women making 30k certainly doesn't help out!!!!

uptownsteve said...

"Blacks don't dream big enough dreams"

This is bull$hit.

I just provided evidence that prior to the recession black businesses were started at a higher rate than any other ethnic group.

Grinder, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

"I realize there is racism but blacks still don't have enough ambition and are too addicted to bling."

The poverty rate for blacks went from over 60% in 1960 to 22% today.

The black folks I live, work and socialize with are as ambitious, determined and capitalistic as any other group of people.

The damned underclass is not the face of black America.

grinder said...

Anon 3:05, the story Field cited was about blacks not being hired in the current economy.

uptownsteve, as usual, you have cherry-picked what I wrote and applied the most defensive possible interpretation. I expect no less of you.

Anonymous said...

grinder still on here trying to explain to black people about black people, dam you're an idiot. would a lawyer like an explanation of law from an accountant? would a teacher like an explanation of learning from a boxer? would a captain of a ship take directions or observations from a house builder/

so blacks do not like your blanket statements, get it probably not, continue spewing your idoiocracy

uptownsteve said...

"You know, the whole "acting white" crap. That is very real, whatever the defensive people here will say."

Grinder, THIS IS GARBAGE.

If black people regard being educated as "acting white" then how the fuck do you even have HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGES????

You are conflating attitudes of the ghetto underclass onto the entire black community.

"Jews arrived as immigrants in significant numbers at the turn of the 20th century, and that's how they got ahead. Chinese arrived here as railroad slaves, or damn close to it. They are now significantly richer than average. Japanese Americans had everything stolen from them in 1942, yet they have rebounded."

None of these people had their cultures, histories and identities stolen from them.

None of these people had a government sponsored system of oppression erected specifically against them.

None of them experienced the racial horror in America that black people did.

And their numbers in America are significantly smaller and therefore did not present the threat to white America that black folks did.

Anonymous said...

grinder=idiot

grinder example of dumb white person's beliefs

Anonymous said...

examples of idiocracy

black are recent arrivals to middle class

black don't dream big enough

you know the whole acting white thing

blacks should be studying those groups and emulating them

old white men should read african american history and then they would know after Reconstruction blacks had their own cities and were thriving more than the poor southern white middle class e.g. Rosewood

old white men should try to read and comprehend the comments made by the black on this site instead of trying to tell another race what they feel


grinder you must be deaf or lack reading comprehension, grinder an example of a fool and lack of knowledge

FlyNMy40s said...

uptownsteve said...
Until the recent recession, black businesses were being started at a higher rate than any other ethnic group.....They also fail at a higher rate for a variety of reasons.....Mainly due to the self-hatred and defeatism displayed by "Flyinmy40s", "Anonymous" and others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Funny you should quote me in your bullshit comment. My husband's Black owned business is doing just fine thank you very much, in this recession.

So me defeated? Yeah right, I'm the youngest, and blackest Lab Director at the institution I work for and I did it without a Doctorate. I'm looking good and feeling better, so feel free to climb back under the rock where you came from.

grinder said...

If black people regard being educated as "acting white" then how the fuck do you even have HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGES????

The research on the "acting white" phenomenon, some of which was done by a black Harvard professor, shows that it happens in high school.

If a high school has a big black population, once the white population exceeds 20% of the total, you start seeing this "acting white" phenomenon in which the more studious black kids are harassed by other blacks (usually male-on-male) for "acting white."

None of these people had their cultures, histories and identities stolen from them.

The Chinese were imported as virtual slaves. Many of them were worked to death, and many others were simply shipped back once the RRs were built.

The Japanese had all their property stolen, at which point they were rounded up and put into concentration camps by the government. Not a system of oppression, you say? A lot of Jews came here after being driven out of Russia and Eastern Europe, and literally had their identities stolen upon arrival, i.e., their names changed at Ellis Island.

No question that blacks had it hard with slavery. I don't deny it or minimize it. But there are other groups in this country who have been shit on in a big way, both before they got here and once they arrived.

Old Italian immigrant saying: "They told me that in America, the streets were paved with silver and gold. They did not tell me that it would be me who would be doing the paving."

Stop feeling so fucking sorry for yourself. Pity is the worst thing to give, and even worse to get.

Anonymous said...

who's feeling sorry for themselves?

on the one hand the state of poor black ppl you need to step up on the other racist ass hand you state the same argument as the other racist (stop feeling sorry for yourself)


I went to Boston Latin along with many of my neighborhood friends, no one ever accuses us of acting white. many went on to Emerson, MIT, Harvard. Boston is a city that embraces education. when I moved to the west coast they were three years behind boston and assumed all blacks were stupid, attitudes among nonblack teachers and racist like yourself is the reason blacks have a higher disparity rate in education and success.

in compton, ca the teachers would come into the class rooms write a reading assignment on the board and then leave. wonder why LA has so many gangs? in Ventura, ca (affluent area) we got new textbooks every year, not in LA.

when whites ASSume like you to know a ppl a race it holds us back. All the black men at my school internalized the belief they were dumb and only good at sports. black women push past these beliefs, we are stronger inthe face of oppression whereas black male youths internalize negativity towards them and give up

like always you do not understand, acting white does not have to do with emulating whites in level of achievement, it has to do with the way one speaks or lack of identifying oneself as black e.i. Tiger Woods perfect example.

you live in racist ass boston, were as a kid grown ass white ppl threw rocks at our bus i bet you were one of them

grinder said...

Here's a small example of something I mentioned: Tiger Woods.

Okay, we joke about his hound-doggin'. Yuk yuk yuk. But there is something serious to discuss here: Tiger, where's the money?

He has collected $100 million playing golf. After taxes, probably $60 million or so, maybe more. Where is the money, Tiger? They say he's a billion-dollar brand through his endorsements. Typically, if you have a patent, your license fee is 5%. So let's add $50 million for endorsements, or $30 million after taxes. Round it all up to $100 million after taxes.

Tiger, where's the money?

You bought yourself some houses. Trophy wife. Fine. No grudges. Where's the other $90 million? What are you doing with it?

We have heard of four mistresses so far. How many more? Tiger, every $10 million you spend on pussy is $10 million less that you could have invested in the future. Forget about the example you've set, blah blah blah. Where's the money?

Bill Cosby, who is hated by a segment of the black community for telling the truth, gave a huge slug of his winnings to Spellman College. Tiger, where's the money? Same for you, Derek Jeter. Where's the goddamned money? I don't for a second begrudge black entertainers making boatloads of it. The question is what you are doing with it.

Look around, rich black entertainers. It's really not your money. You have obligations.

grinder said...

I went to Boston Latin along with many of my neighborhood friends, no one ever accuses us of acting white.

Boston Latin is not a predominantly or even heavily black school. The "acting white" phenomenon occurs in high schools with large black enrollments, but with a significant white presence.

When a school is all-black, the "acting white" phenomenon does not exist, nor does it exist in schools where blacks are a relatively small minority, as at Boston Latin. Read the research. I have posted the link on this website before, and you can Google it and find it yourself.

Get as pissed off as you please at me, but that does not change anything.

Anonymous said...

Fly, "Speaking of crabs in a bucket, how many of us in positions to hire Black folks have done so, then been burned to a crisp by Black folks?

In my experience, Black folks will screw you harder and longer than any white person I've every come across. Especially a Black woman and especially if you look half way decent."

Thanks for this comment, you validate my comment @12:54am about my own experience with my so-called "supportive people". Isn't it amazing that with all of this betrayal going on, few Blacks discuss it or acknowledge it?

It's difficult to trust one another when the odds are high that you could be dealing with a person who lacks the moral potency to do the right thing. My greatest pain in life has come from the backstabbing of my fellow Blacks...both male and female.

Anonymous said...

Numbers must of went down since that March 2009 study:

The rate of unemployment for whites with a college degree is 4.3%, but for blacks, it is 5.8%. For those with a high school diploma but no college, the unemployment rate is 9.1% for whites and 15% for blacks.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/04/news/economy/black_unemployment/index.htm

Jody said...

Grinder, please stop it... you are making sweeping statements about various ethnic groups in an attempt to minimize systemic racism against blacks, that if you cared about, you would just shut up and do your part to dismantle it.

Your gross generalizations are just that, gross. Your statements about Asian Americans (both chinese and japanese) are the gross generalizations that whites use to excuse their own bad behavior. Aside for being ridiculously simplistic... the reality is there are Asian Americans that experience poverty, lack of job opportunity, and all of the various ills that others experience here. Don't believe me? I invite you to visit some of the overcrowded apartments in chinatown or neighborhoods in south philly and see the poverty for yourself. Same can be said for San Francisco, Seattle, and NYC where you have larger concentrations of Asian Americans living.

You are an embarassment to me as a white woman. That you come onto this blog and spew your crap and then often, act all surprised and sometimes offended is painful.

Seriously dude, you need to do a lot more self education and self reflection to realize that your blanket statements are ignorant. Have you learned NOTHING from being here? Do you not realize that no group of people can be neatly catagorized to justify your world view? Just stop it!

Anonymous said...

Also interestingly enough:

The black community has suffered the hardest during the economic downturn, with an unemployment rate that currently stands at 15.6%. That's a much higher rate than for all of the other races that the Labor Department tracks, including Hispanics (12.7%), whites (9.3%) and Asians (7.3%).

Asians keep on a rocking :) No matter what the white man can do.

uptownsteve said...

grinder

"Stop feeling so fucking sorry for yourself. Pity is the worst thing to give, and even worse to get."

Oh please stop this bull$hit.

I've competed against white people head to head all my life and have won far more than I've lost.

Which is why I know racists like you won't admit to the social advantages you are born with and endlessly try to attribute race discrepancies to "black dysfunction".

Anonymous said...

Haha that's what I love about people like UpTownSteve, when push comes to shove black folks have no problem saying they are better than whitey.

Anonymous said...

grinder, "Boston Latin is not a predominantly or even heavily black school. The "acting white" phenomenon occurs in high schools with large black enrollments, but with a significant white presence."

You are right. There has been quite a bit of study about the phenomena of Blacks attacking Blacks in highschool for "acting White". Even Michelle Obama has talked about it and it was a focal point of the media when she said it. In fact, there was a lot of blogging and posting about it in the black blogosphere. Remember?

This phenomena of being against education is called "academic disidentification", a term developed by a Black psychologist at Stanford U. Blacks on this blog tend to become defensive and refuse to 'accept' the truth. That's why that crap goes on and so many black children remain uneducated, because Blacks want to sweep it under the rug and hope that somehow it will disappear. It will eventually disappear, along with the disappearance of Black America.

FlyNMy40s said...

Anonymous said...
Thanks for this comment, you validate my comment @12:54am about my own experience with my so-called "supportive people". Isn't it amazing that with all of this betrayal going on, few Blacks discuss it or acknowledge it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And what's worse is that when you do acknowledge it, you're called an uncle Tom or worse, a "Token".

Now Grinder, I have to tell you that you're way off base comparing the plight of Asians to those of Blacks/slavery. In my mind, you can't strip a person of thier identity/culture (which no other group of "immigrants" to America experienced), routinely rape their women, denegrate their men, destroy their families, then think that 30 years after hanging blacks from trees was no lonegr popular, expect this same group of people to flourish in large numbers.

I'm not one to hang onto the atocities of America's past, but at some point you have to call a spade a spade.

FlyNMy40s said...

Anonymous said...
You are right. ......Blacks attacking Blacks in highschool for "acting White".........
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And if my memory serves me right, I believe that a very similar ignorant statement to this was hurled/hissed at me on this very blog.

Yeah, gotta love Black folks.......

Anonymous said...

@Grinder,

Grinder, I am glad you are on this blog because you raise issues and perspectives that Blacks NEED to hear. Of course, many don't want to hear it and will see you as a racist, and will tell you so.

Imo, ALL Americans are sick racists--but some are sicker than others. Those who are calling you a racist fail to see their own racism...and I am not talking only about Whites.

We need more tough folks like you, instead of the "kiss-ass- agree-no-matter-what" white garden variety type who chastises you for your opinions instead of acknowledging the truth-that your opinion DOES represent a segment, if not the majority, in our country.

I admire your courage, openness, honesty, persistence and dedication to the truth AS BEST YOU CAN DISCERN IT. Everyone has that right.

Hathor said...

Grinder,

You remind me of a what a co-worker said during the early eighties, after seeing a TV biography of Scott Joplin. He said " I didn't know Negroes lived in such nice homes."

FYI - The Back middle class has existed since colonial times.

If you want to know what Tiger's doing, watch more golf.

Blinders Off said...

FlyNMY40s you are on point.

I learned that early in my career and dealt with it during all phases of my education. However, I am grateful for the life lessons learned and fought while working in Corporate America and obtaining an education. Because of my experiences I was prepare to equip my daughters how to survive being intelligent, beautiful black women, but most importantly how to succeed without backstabbing, laying on their back, or bending down on their knees.

Anonymous said...

Fly-"And if my memory serves me right, I believe that a very similar ignorant statement to this was hurled/hissed at me on this very blog."

If I recall correctly, that was a 'hot' weekend for comments. You left many of those crabs speechless, esp. the big one, who needed to be told off. You were masterful in the way you defended yourself against a host of crabs coming at you, trying to drag you down. At the end of the day they were left wounded and speechless. It was a classic! Haven't seen a person handle something like that since ab slayed the possee. You were beautiful.

Of course, the crabs in the bucket tried to make a 'comeback' the next day-they always do-but they were weak and lacked conviction. LOL.

Anonymous said...

How has a black middle class existed since colonial times, when a real white middle class has only existed since the 'great compression' of the Roosevelt Administration?

Anonymous said...

"How has a black middle class existed since colonial times, when a real white middle class has only existed since the 'great compression' of the Roosevelt Administration?"

Well, you have to understand how some Blacks think, which is dreamlike.

grinder said...

Here is a link to the Harvard study on "acting white." It is a PDF file, so if you're on a dialup connection it will take a long time to download.

Harvard study link

I have to tell you that you're way off base comparing the plight of Asians to those of Blacks/slavery. In my mind, you can't strip a person of thier identity/culture (which no other group of "immigrants" to America experienced), routinely rape their women, denegrate their men, destroy their families, then think that 30 years after hanging blacks from trees was no lonegr popular, expect this same group of people to flourish in large numbers.

This is a fair point, and I have what I think is a fair answer. Comparing doesn't mean arguing that they are the same. My point is not that Asians and blacks and Jews had the same experiences. They didn't. My point is that blacks are far from the only group in this society that has faced heavy disadvantage.

Asians and Jews recovered without external help. American Indians never recovered, as a group. Blacks are a mixed bag, as uptownsteve never tires of pointing out.

I've competed against white people head to head all my life and have won far more than I've lost.

Congratulations. I mean it.

racists like you won't admit to the social advantages you are born with and endlessly try to attribute race discrepancies to "black dysfunction"

I believe there is plenty of racism in America, and that it's a significant issue for blacks. But I also think there is a whole lot of dysfunction within the black population. Which is NOT uniform. Blacks are NOT "all alike" to me.

Your statements about Asian Americans (both chinese and japanese) are the gross generalizations that whites use to excuse their own bad behavior.

Excuse? Hey, who do you think shit on the Chinese and the Japanese? That was white America. I don't deny it for a microsecond.

It's difficult to trust one another when the odds are high that you could be dealing with a person who lacks the moral potency to do the right thing. My greatest pain in life has come from the backstabbing of my fellow Blacks...both male and female.

Interesting observation. I can only comment through analogy. Want to know who some of the worst enemies of gay people are? Closeted homosexuals. I have come to believe that they've done far more harm to gay people than the straight population at large.

That reporter, April Whats-Her-Name, who tried to rip apart the White House social secretary, strikes me as a small and petty example of what you're talking about among blacks.

We need more tough folks like you, instead of the "kiss-ass- agree-no-matter-what" white garden variety type who chastises you for your opinions instead of acknowledging the truth-that your opinion DOES represent a segment, if not the majority, in our country.

I admire your courage, openness, honesty, persistence and dedication to the truth AS BEST YOU CAN DISCERN IT. Everyone has that right.


Pity and guilt are such easy cop-outs. I could do that dance, but someone who does it is not showing respect. I'd much rather have people call it like they see it while doing their best to cut and even break.

It reminds me of the time I was bitching to a straight friend about some petty crap that befalls gay people. His response: "That's what being an oppressed minority is all about."

I laughed my ass off at that comment, because while my complaint was valid so was the response. Don't seek people's pity. Don't get mad, get even. To a larger degree that you think, you make your own world, even if you're black.

I'm old enough, and have done enough different things, and seen enough stuff, to feel qualified to say the following: I have never seen anyone piss and moan their way to success. Not ever.

grinder said...

Speaking of "academic disidentification," how about this story? It seems as if someone in South Philly has been getting jealous of the academic success of Chinese immigrants.

Now who at that school do you think is doing these beat-downs? Do you think it's Chinese beating Chinese for "acting white?" Somehow I doubt it. Not that blacks could ever be racist. Oh no. Not ever. Impossible.

FlyNMy40s said...

Grinder, first off let me say that I don't believe are racist at all, just seriously misguided at times. And I say at times, becasue I often agree with points you make.

But again, the one you make about Jews, Asians, and Blacks is simply off base.

Sure Asians, and Jews "made it" without external help, but who needs external help when you: 1) Have the money Jews have and 2) Have intact family structures which Asians and Jews have?

Look at ANY racial group, family support combined with a financial base, will more often than not equal success. So if were gonna have this debate, lets at least begin from the same starting point.

Hathor said...

anon 6:06,

You don't know much about white folk either.

grinder said...

@FlyNMy40s

Jews, as a group, didn't arrive in the United States with money. They did tend to arrive with skills, strong families, cohesive communities, and a very strong drive for education and improvement.

Yes, you are right about the intact families. I completely agree with you, and in fact that was one of my points above. The fact that three-quarters of black babies are born out of wedlock (a much higher percentage than 50 years ago) is, in my opinion, an unmitigated socioeconomic catastrophe.

Moynihan tried to say as much nearly 40 years ago, and was called every name in the book for it. Well, turns out he was right. The white rate of 28% out-of-wedlock is scary, too. I think single parenthood is a sure-fire ticket to poverty.

grinder said...

p.s.: When I was growing up in the '70s, my father would comment on what was happening to black families, and would often say that the real price would be paid in 20 or 30 years. He was right about that.

FlyNMy40s said...

grinder said...
p.s.: When I was growing up in the '70s, my father would comment on what was happening to black families, and would often say that the real price would be paid in 20 or 30 years. He was right about that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And what dear old dad forgot to tell you was that 1) A LOT of whats happening to black families today are part of the consequences of slavery and that 2) Black people, not whites, would pay the price ultimately.

As for Jews not arriving to the US with money, my Jewish ancestors did, as did many of their other family members and friends. In fact, I don't know nor have a every met a Jewish person that wasn't at least middle class.

grinder said...

And what dear old dad forgot to tell you was that 1) A LOT of whats happening to black families today are part of the consequences of slavery and that 2) Black people, not whites, would pay the price ultimately.

Slavery did not make the black out-of-wedlock birth rate explode through the roof in the past half-century. How long do blacks get to blame everything on slavery, anyway?

Look, the Japanese in this country had all of their property stolen in 1942. All of it, other than the clothes on their backs. So, do you have Japanese gangsta thugs shooting each other in the head in broad daylight, and other Japanese shrugging their shoulders and saying, "See? That's what the camps did to us" ?

You know, every time anyone, black or white, stands up and says it's about time more black people got their shit together, they are either a house nigger or a white racist.

Now, it's true, a lot of lasting damage was done, and it's also true that a lot of blacks have gotten their shit together. But there are a whole lot of big problems, and if every time anyone notices them the walls go up and you're an asshole for noticing, well, how much progress will there be?

Man, it would be so much easier to plead guilty and say it's all the white man's fault. But where in hell does it get you, and do you honestly think that the person who says it respects you? To me, part of true respect is saying what needs to be said, even if it's not very happy.

If you want to set me up as a racist voodoo doll and stick pins in me, believe me I will survive and so will you. But it's the same old bullshit dance and it goes nowhere.

FlyNMy40s said...

When it comes to where Blacks are today, sometimes it's hard for me to figure out what the average american is complaing about espeically when I also think about slavery.

Slavery was about black women having numerous babies which they did out of wedlcok because slaves were not permitted to marry. Today, many Black women have babies out of wedlock. Slavery was about Black men not being allowed to be there for their families. Today, many black men aren't there for their families. Slavery was about the breakdown/disallowing Black family structure. Today, many Black families aren't structured.

My question, why is America complaing when the overall state of Black America is exactly what they planned for 300 years ago with slavery? As a Scientist, I understand the role "breeding" plays on phenotype, or those genetic/behavioral traits you see.

Perhaps, if slaves had been bred for success, many more Black Americans would have it today. Turning back the clock on generations of "breeding" complacency won't disappear because you want it to.

FlyNMy40s said...

Grinder,
Look, the Japanese in this country had all of their property stolen in 1942. All of it, other than the clothes on their backs. So, do you have Japanese gangsta thugs shooting each other in the head in broad daylight, and other Japanese shrugging their shoulders and saying, "See? That's what the camps did to us" ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Japanese? Are you f*ucking kidding me? The Japanses got REPARATIONS for their internment. And they get "reparations" when they go to the back looking for a loan to start a business with too. And yeah, I think Blacks should get reparations for thier role in building this f*cking country!

Educational reparations, as in EVERY Black person with ancestors who were slaves should get a free education for LIFE!!! Wanna change the tide of the average Black american family? Lets start with education!!!!

Man, you'd better watch it and don't get me started up in here, LOL!!

grinder said...

Come on. In 1950, 83% of babies born to black women (and 98% of those born to white women) were born in wedlock. Last year, 29% of black babies were born in wedlock and 72% of white babies were born in wedlock.

Slavery didn't cut the in-wedlock birthrates among blacks (or whites, for that matter). Other things did that. There was the expansion of welfare, and the sexual revolution in general.

In any case, at this late date, 144 years after slavery was abolished, I would argue that the "what" is more important than the "why." Don't get me wrong, I am interested in why things happen, but I am not too impressed when "why" is used as a defensive shield.

I'm even less impressed when the "why" isn't even correct. If slavery caused broken families, then why wouldn't it have been far higher 85 years after emancipation than it is 145 years after emancipation?

Get real. There is rampant social dysfunction among a whole lot of black people. Field isn't calling his city "Killadelphia" because he's a house nigger. He's doing it because hundreds of black people are being killed by other black people each year, and behind those killings stands the utter disintegration of a community that was once a hell of a lot more cohesive than it is today.

Let me give you a comparison. AIDS among gay men was the product of a few forces, one being the sudden lowering of barriers to sexual expression and a resulting burst of promiscuity among the people damaged by those barriers.

For a while -- and I remember this well -- the gay leadership didn't take AIDS all that seriously. Then, quickly, in the mid-1980s, people started dying. Fast. That, my friend, riveted peoples' attention like you wouldn't believe. I saw that, too. Things changed, including lots of behavior.

Now, is all the dysfunction gone? Nah. Among other things, men are dogs. Alaways have been, always will be. Two men are dog-squared. It's a never-ending issue. But it ain't anything like it was in the late 1970s, because a bunch of people looked over the cliff and decided they'd better step up to the plate. (Wow, mixing the metaphors, huh?)

The point is that you don't get anywhere by turning explanations into excuses and hiding behind your history.

grinder said...

Are you f*ucking kidding me? The Japanses got REPARATIONS for their internment.

Yeah, they got $20,000 apiece, 50 years later. BFD.

La♥Incognita said...

Here we go with the stats again.

grinder said...

Educational reparations, as in EVERY Black person with ancestors who were slaves should get a free education for LIFE!!! Wanna change the tide of the average Black american family? Lets start with education!!!!

To quote John McEnroe: "You can't be serious!" K-12 education IS free, and black kids drop out of school like crazy. I'm one of these people who thinks everyone who is qualified for college -- meaning that they earned a high school diploma, not just a certificate of attendance -- ought to get a government-funded education in return for service or a slice of their future earnings.

But the idea that this should be done as reparations for slavery is preposterous to me. If we're going to have educational reparations for slavery, it ought to be at the front end. We already do a lot of it, with Head Start, which ought to be expanded to encompass the (one parent) family and how it raises the kid.

I'm all in favor of education, but it's got to be more than a buzzword or an empty credential. Too many black kids (and plenty of whites) do nothing but screw off. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy there.

grinder said...

Here we go with the stats again.

Yeah, facts really suck. Never mix facts with black people, huh?

Anonymous said...

Educational reparations, as in EVERY Black person with ancestors who were slaves should get a free education for LIFE!!! Wanna change the tide of the average Black american family? Lets start with education!!!!


What about the mixed blacks? Would they only get half, or a quarter, or whatever? What about blacks whose ancestors owned slaves? What about recent
immigrants, Latinos, Asian Americans and Caucasian Americans whose ancestors arrived in America long after slavery
ended? How willing would they be to pay for something they had nothing to do with? What about ancestors of abolitionists and Quakers? Should they be forced to pay?

genia said...

Grinder: Insightful, educated, and passionate posts. I think I am in love.

Hathor said...

Why is it that white folk have to arrive with a revised history lesson and statistics of Black life? I so hate that my humanity is diminished, in challenging my life and the relevancy of my perceptions. If I protest then I must be a racist, because my entitlement is my own memory.

So be it.

Race Traitoress said...

Why is it that the unemployment rate for black folks with college degrees is twice that of what it is for their white counterparts? And higher, even, than whites with less credentials?

This is a trick question, right?

They chalked it up to everything from cultural differences and the need for a comfort level with similar people in the work place, to affirmative action making whites think that even black folks with college degrees were not qualified.

Also known as racism.

c.c.-kathy said...

Grinder,
I don't want to go over every little detail of your postings here, but I was quite amazed and dismayed, because you really are trying to speak about the experience of people when you have not ever had that experience, and stats or evidence is always biased by whoever is drawing a conclusion or opinon about those things.

But one thing really bothers me, and I can't totally put the words together on it. I used to think that 'acting white' had something to do with education too, just like you Grinder, but I dont' really think acting white equals getting an education, I think it;s more or less buying into the whole white is better idea, and leaving behind the values of community, well something like that. I will probably figure out how to say this later, but it's the best I can come up with right now.

Anonymous said...

Something about Grinder bother me. It seems that he gets off on the pathologies of Black people. No solutions, no discussions, just insults and finger-wagging.

I do not mean to insult, but there is something very...unseemly about him and the people that support him.

La♥Incognita said...

"Yeah, facts really suck. Never mix facts with black people, huh?"

Nope. It's just that every time you place yourself in these heated race debates (over a year now), you start feeling over powered, and eventually end up hauling those stats along with other negative stereotypes as retribution.

Especially if you don't sense a level of "appreciation" or obliging from us black folks for when you think you're doing us a favor for trying to be sympathetic in the beginning of your comments. I could be wrong.

grinder said...

I used to think that 'acting white' had something to do with education too, just like you Grinder

You need to read more carefully, because I never wrote or implied such a stupid idea. Young black thugs who harass their fellow students, both black and Asian, are the ones who "think" (I use the word loosely) that way. It is idiotic and tragic.

FlyNMy40s said...

grinder said...
Yeah, facts really suck. Never mix facts with black people, huh?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Guess I'm gonna have to back track on a previous comment. You are in fact a racist and as a card carrying conservative, don't give me this Black folks don't want to hear the truth bullshit either.

Sure Blacks ought to take some repsonsibility but so ought the main perpatrators of too many injustices to name. And that means people like YOU in case you were wondering.

grinder said...

Especially if you don't sense a level of "appreciation" or obliging from us black folks for when you think you're doing us a favor for trying to be sympathetic in the beginning of your comments. I could be wrong.

Of all the people here, you in particular should know that I always say exactly what I mean here, or try to. If I wanted to curry favor with this crowd, I'd be singing a very different tune.

grinder said...

Guess I'm gonna have to back track on a previous comment. You are in fact a racist and as a card carrying conservative, don't give me this Black folks don't want to hear the truth bullshit either.

What you quoted was a sarcastic comment. Sarcasm is a tricky animal on the internet. I do "say exactly what I mean," but sarcasm requires interpretation.

No, I didn't literally mean that it really sucks to mix facts and black people. I wrote that in reaction to someone complaining that I was quoting statistics. The alternative to using stats is to just make assertions supported by nothing.

Stats have their limitations. You can cherry pick from stats to support untruths. I don't think I've been doing that here.

FlyNMy40s said...

Anonymous said...
.....What about the mixed blacks? Would they only get half, or a quarter, or whatever? What about blacks whose ancestors owned slaves?...... What about ancestors of abolitionists and Quakers? Should they be forced to pay?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You think the decendants of quackers aren't paying? Who do you think pays to keep folks in prisons? Everyone from the legal system to private owners of prisons gets PAID thanks to tax payers!!!

Or maybe that's it. You'd rather build prisons than schools? Yeah, that's logical,LOL!!!\

As for reparations, I'm multicultural, so what's you flippin' point? I'm STILL the decendant of slaves too.

c.c.-kathy said...

"Sure Blacks ought to take some responsibility but so ought the main perpetrators of too many injustices to name. And that means people like YOU in case you were wondering.

9:04 PM" La, that is so true, lol

c.c.-kathy said...

"You need to read more carefully, because I never wrote or implied such a stupid idea. Young black thugs who harass their fellow students, both black and Asian, are the ones who "think" (I use the word loosely) that way. It is idiotic and tragic.

9:03 PM"
_____________
Grinder, you are just repeating what you just said in other comments in this one, need I really backtrack? lol?

La♥Incognita said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
krystalxlyte said...

Field, the fact that you copped that pic from AOHELLs "black voices" of a black man looking quite segregated, strikes me as unsurprising as the blatant rascism shown in Amerrykkkan MSM is further progressing and fufuilling the long suspected of agenda to demonize the black nation. It's one of the reasons why I no longer patronize them (aside from their crappy unitelligible customer service based on some goat farm in Pakistan and the Reich wing maggots that infest even the forums designated for black vocies)

but I want to draw from two points made by anon 11:38
and Kristen as to reasons why unemployment is prevalantly high among blacks in amerrykkka.

Anon 11:38 stated that there is a real failure of intergration in the workplace and even beyond. I couldn't agree more
that this is partially what have kept blacks in particular wading in the recession for a longer period of time. The
fear and failure to intergrate.


The reality of inequality is often left out of the equation. There are some states that would deny being effected by
the repercussions of a recession but are actually thriving.
However, that's only a one sided view of a coin that has
two.

The south, where I live/am from, is home to 11 out of 15 of
the states in the US with the highest poverty level...and
ironically..well not all too ironically home to a good sized
population of African Americans..

The inequality is persistantly stubborn. Three times as many blacks than whites live below the poverty line
(defined as income being 20,000 for a family of 4) which
brings me to Kristens point of the disadvatages of the economically oppressed poor whites.

The poor whites in amerrykkka are made out to be as non existing and something of make believe characters to the world thanks to Amerrykkkan MSM....but the reality of it is they face some of the disadvantages we face as far as stereotypes and profiling ect.

Most of whom we see have been hoodwinked and used as pawns by big gov, big corporation, to be spokespersons to things and ideas that are against their own interest for the white nationalist cause. These people are lied to by the
very neokkkons who over represent them in office and in
congress who make the case that they are spending
millions of dollars from big corporations like oh..healthcare
industries to protect them and their interests out of "patriotism" but where are their jobs and healthcare
where are the quality schools and social programs for the
white working class community those that rep them feign to care about.

It wouldn't be half the struggle for them to obtain it as it
would be for us so why don't they ask for better schools
and roads for the working class whites? These people who
vote with the party of the white,rich,Christian male despite
their interests can't make the connection as to why the corporations are spending billions to stop reform of broken
systems that would otherwise be better for them and the nation and among them are bush voters and the same ones who suffered in 2003 under the bush error.

The recession then had pushed white unemployment rate up to a high of 5.2% but that was only to pale in comparison to the black unemployment rate which shot up from 7.6% to 10.8% post 9/11. I don't look for Olbermann or maddow (who is becoming increasingly irritating) to address this and I agree with so many of the others that posted. We as a people have got to stop thinking empowerment, success and 'making it' in this world consist of putting a dime in the white mans already stuffed pocket!

c.c.-kathy said...

La"Btw, I apologize for my typos and run on sentences. Perhaps we can blame my personal errors on the %83% out of wedlock stats among black women."
___________________-
I don't know, why don't we ask Grinder for his report?

Anonymous said...

I'll repost these:
It would seem the disparities aren't as large.

I don't think that 1.5% difference isn't a whole lot.. especially if we are attributing it to racism.

Numbers must of went down since that March 2009 study:

The rate of unemployment for whites with a college degree is 4.3%, but for blacks, it is 5.8%. For those with a high school diploma but no college, the unemployment rate is 9.1% for whites and 15% for blacks.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/04/news/economy/black_unemployment/index.htm

La♥Incognita said...

LOL Kathy, I deleted it because I was afraid someone might have agreed. LOL.

Btw, it was Fly who made that other comment.

c.c.-kathy said...

"Stats have their limitations. You can cherry pick from stats to support untruths. I don't think I've been doing that here"
_____________
Cherry picking would be too kind to describe some of the insults you been throwing around tonight.

Anonymous said...

Integration has failed. That's the beginning and end of the story.

c.c.-kathy said...

@La,
I deleted the comment I had for FLY before I posted it, that is for another day.

W said...

That EPI report is interesting, especially if you look at the state by state differences where in some states blacks are unemployed 2x the rate of hispanics which I found particularly odd.

The solution they present is a federal work program:

All of this underscores the fact that we need a permanent long term national federally funded jobs program. The money for this can come from a transactions tax on the financial sector among other sources. Pouring money into banks, the housing market, health care, and short-term stimulus, though admirable (at least the latter three) and hoping for “normal” recovery is not adequate. We need a permanent long-term national federal funded jobs program in order generate robust and sustainable job growth particularly for the most severely impacted segments of our workforce. See: http://www.chicagodsa.org/jobs.pdf for an example of such a program.

We propose to finance our program from sources that broadly require: a) a major
redistribution of income and wealth toward poorer households, b) substantial taxes on
financial services and carbon emitting production, and cuts in defense spending that
would support an economic restructuring away from rentier activities and
environmentally unsustainable production and would reduce wasteful and destructive
military spending, and c) in addition, a direct use of necessary money supply increases
for public purposes that would reduce current subsidies to the private financial sector
for the quintessentially public function of creating money. In addition to funding our jobs
11
program, these policies will guide the macro economy toward greater equality of
opportunity between households and toward more productive and sustainable uses of
resources.

First, the ongoing misadventure in Iraq has a current out-of-taxpayer-pocket cost
of approximately $100 billion/year since the 2003 invasion. One-half of that
amount would provide $50 billion for the jobs program we are proposing. Taking
an additional 5% of the total war budget of approximately $1 trillion/year (all in
including “intelligence,” armaments, salaries, R&D, etc.) would provide another
$50 billion.
• Second, an excess profits tax on the major energy companies could conservatively
raise an additional $50 billion. This tax may be part of a broader “carbon tax” that
is offset by subsidies to low-income households that need to, at least in the shortterm,
rely on carbon energy sources. We conservatively estimate that we can raise
at least another $50 billion from such a carbon tax. 15
• Thirdly, a 0.25% “Tobin Tax” on financial transactions both raise significant
revenue and would have the additional beneficial result of reducing the volume of
highly leveraged financial speculation. In 1996 this tax was estimated,
worldwide, to raise $3.25 billion/day or $832 billion annually.16 In the U.S, using
only stock transactions on registered exchanges, in 2008 this tax would have
generated $175.2 billion (one side only; if on both buyer and seller the amount
would be doubled). When transactions in various derivative markets and the offexchange
bond market are included, the revenues generated, even discounting for
the likely reduction in trading, would be sufficient to fiancé most if not all of our
jobs program: a revenue estimate of $600 billion annually for the U.S. does not
seem unreasonable.
• Fourth, if necessary increases in the money supply to accommodate an expanding
economy were used to fund jobs rather than pay down federal government debt,
an additional approximately $42 billion of “tax free” funding would be
available.17 Note that jobs financed from this source would have a multiplier
larger than one as no taxes would be necessary to offset this spending.
• Lastly, a wealth tax of 0.5% on the top 1% of households by wealth, those with
more than $5.0 million in assets, would generate another $75 billion/year.

W said...

I particularly love the excess profits tax on major energy companies. The middle class always gets f'ed over. So no subsidies for the middle class, but subsidies for the low-income household. So... if we raise $50 billion from an additional tax on energy companies then where do we get the extra money to subsidize energy to low-income households from the inevitable price raise from energy companies.

Anonymous said...

I am an Asian immigrant and have lived as a working white collar professional in this country, of which I am proud to be a citizen, for some 30 years now.

As a bystander, I must say that my average white colleague in the workplace is deeply uncomfortable with AA folks, be they professional or not, and will reflexively avoid have to hire, socialize or interact as a peer with them. Most of the time, even the most well intentioned, and intellectually egalitarian ones seem not be be able to resist this weakness in their characters. Racism runs deep amongst white folks in this country, alas, and most do not have the strength of character to recognize or confront it within themselves.

Anonymous said...

" alas, and most do not have the strength of character to recognize or confront it within themselves."

Like grinder.

W said...

I think that is a very fair point Anonymous. On the other hand I'm waiting to see the reaction from the Asian American community when their high achievement levels revisit them in the form of Affirmative Action. One has to only take a glimpse at how Asian Americans are highly overrepresented in California universities for example. For one example Asians make up 40% to as high as 53% at UC Irvine in the system. Whereas their overall population in the United States barely hits 4% and in California barely 12%.

W said...

I suppose you could take more seats from Whites but I don't see that happening when their numbers are less than their overall population. Na the new spots for Hispanics and African Americans will come to the detriment of Asian Americans.

grinder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
grinder said...

W, you raise a fascinating and pertinent point. California is a multiethnic state, and the black-white model of racism in which whites are guilty and must atone to blacks is increasingly obsolete there, both in theory and daily reality.

Nowadays, the biggest racial tension is between blacks and Latinos, and Asians are rapidly climbing to the top of the economic pile there. The usual channels of black grievance are less and less relevant every day there.

You are seeing this happen elsewhere in the country too, as Latinos are now the second-largest nonwhite group and (in some places) Asians are making a real mark on the economy. The black claim to reparations has always been absurd, but it's going to be simply irrelevant in the future.

Anonymous said...

grinder says, "The black claim to reparations has always been absurd, but it's going to be simply irrelevant in the future."

Wow, is this the same guy in an earlier comment that was posting about how he understand how blacks have been treated by whites?

c.c.-kathy said...

"You are seeing this happen elsewhere in the country too, as Latinos are now the second-largest nonwhite group and (in some places) Asians are making a real mark on the economy. The black claim to reparations has always been absurd, but it's going to be simply irrelevant in the future.

10:40 PM"
_______--
Grinder, why is the black claim to reparations been absurd, explain that to me. thanks.

____________________\\

also, Grinder, the hatred aimed at Asian Americans, you and your ilk spawn that shit, i like to say some bad words, but i wont'

W said...

I don't think reparations is necessarily absurd. White people did get a whole heck of a lot of free labor from black people.

W said...

"you and your ilk spawn that shit"

If I'm included in Grinder's "ilk" then you are mistaken on my intentions by my statements. I have no hatred towards Asian Americans. Indeed white people could learn much from Asian Americans.

c.c.-kathy said...

"I have no hatred towards Asian Americans. Indeed white people could learn much from Asian Americans."
___________________
i never said you had hatred towards Asian Americans, but your comment leaves me with a WTF? does that mean?

W said...

Asians are outperforming whites in math and sciences. Thus we need to have more discipline or work harder or rectify whatever else is the problem.

c.c.-kathy said...

Asians haven't got a lot of choice, they are forced into jobs with math and science, even if it means less pay more work than a white person, it seems to me that Asian Americans are only seen as stereotypical math and science, it's not the whole picture.
p.s. W, I meant Grinder and white people in "ilk" nobody else.

SmashedtheTinyBlackBox said...

Blacks don't dream big enough dreams.

I know, late return, better late than never.

I'd like to address this comment way earlier on from Grinder.

Although this is a sweeping generalization, this is true. Stereotypes are true of the group, but can be largely false of individuals. My parents crushed my "risky, GREEDY, enterpernurial dreams." My husband's parents did the same. Both of us heard..."that class is to hard. You might fail. Stick to the easier class. Why don't you major in government. Science is probably to hard for you." How many of us honestly, were told to reach for the skies, but then told...it's too hard. Far more of us than we're willing to admit. It took me ten years from the time I left home to gain the confidence to follow me dreams as a business woman. Many blacks do act like crabs in a bucket, some with their own kids. The worst are usually relatives as one of the anon's described.

Don't get it wrong, I tend to disagree with ol' grinder 60-75% of the time. But he is correct here. Consider not who is saying the message, but what is being said. We have to stop sending kids mixed messages out of our own personal fear and failures.

Solutions: As a business woman...keep your mouth shut about what your plans are. No one screws you like family and hater friends umo. It's totally ok to get help from SUCCESSFUL people of any race willing to help you (yes, Grinder is right again...emulate successful behavior of others.)

As a parent: Isolate your kids from negative relatives, if necessary. Environment is key. Your kids have you because they lack discernment. Put negative relatives, pastors and teachers in their place if they even look like they're crapping on your kid's dreams. If you don't believe in your kid and give him the tools he needs, then who will.

Finally once your or your kid's goals has been reached, only then go back and give back. But don't stop reaching for the sky.

c.c.-kathy said...

"Na the new spots for Hispanics and African Americans will come to the detriment of Asian Americans."
_______________
and that is very true!

c.c.-kathy said...

"Blacks don't dream big enough dreams."

I counter that with, "the quiet bigotry of low expectations"

c.c.-kathy said...

"If you don't believe in your kid and give him the tools he needs, then who will?"

______________-
that is great advice.

SmashedtheTinyBlackBox said...

c.c.-kathy,

You made an even better point with "the quiet bigotry of low expectations!"

That's really what it is! It's tragic that it's projected on the babies and children! I'm working to see that my kids don't get that crap from me.

Anonymous said...

grinder-"I believe there is plenty of racism in America, and that it's a significant issue for blacks. But I also think there is a whole lot of dysfunction within the black population. Which is NOT uniform. Blacks are NOT "all alike" to me."

Again you are on point:

1.Blacks have yet to deal with their own racism...too busy looking at white racism against Blacks.
2. "Dysfunction" in the BC is an understatement, "destruction" that is leading Black America to its deathbed, is more accurate. Even Farrakhan has admitted it.
3. Yes, it is NOT uniform but those who escape the destruction of Black America will also find themselves very isolated and alone in mainstream America. They will also find themselves as the next target. And deservedly so, because they are the ones who are standing by while this destruction is going on in the BC--which is exactly what Whites are hoping for.

You have made some very good points, which are painfully true...too true and too painful for a lot of Blacks to acknowledge.

There is a tremendous karmic fallout happening in the BC, and over the next 20 years other POCs will continue to surpass and outdistance them in everything.

It's going to be a very painful ordeal for Blacks, but great progress for non-blacks. And the biggest painful truth for Blacks will be: NO ONE WILL CARE.

And why should they when Blacks haven't cared? Blacks have sat around for decades and talked, and talked, and talked...yet, have done nothing.

grinder said...

It's going to be a very painful ordeal for Blacks, but great progress for non-blacks. And the biggest painful truth for Blacks will be: NO ONE WILL CARE.

That is sad, but I think there's a good deal of truth in it. Ask any Native American what a stunningly indifferent country this can be.

c.c.-kathy said...

"1.Blacks have yet to deal with their own racism...too busy looking at white racism against Blacks."

___________--
you kidding me, right? since when do Black people have "their own racism" if they aint got any power?

grinder said...

I counter that with, "the quiet bigotry of low expectations"

Real nice phrase, but high expectations are tough, and sympathy doesn't cut it. Throughout this thread, I've taken little but crap (with some exceptions) for calling out black dysfunction. Most people here want blacks to be coddled, and for no one to notice the rampant failure.

Well, there are some whites who will tell you what you want to hear. But most of them simply disengage because they don't want the hassle. You think whites sit around and worry about how to screw you? Wow, you really don't have a clue.

c.c.-kathy said...

"2. "Dysfunction" in the BC is an understatement, "destruction" that is leading Black America to its deathbed, is more accurate. Even Farrakhan has admitted it."

____________
dysfunction? how about dysfunction in American culture in general? Does that count? What has Farrakhan "admitted" to?

c.c.-kathy said...

"Throughout this thread, I've taken little but crap (with some exceptions) for calling out black dysfunction. Most people here want blacks to be coddled, and for no one to notice the rampant failure."

____________
oh poor little Grinder, why don't YOU focus on White dysfunction for a change? how's that for "coddling"?

Anonymous said...

cc Kathy, "dysfunction? how about dysfunction in American culture in general? Does that count? What has Farrakhan "admitted" to?"

For sure there is dysfunction in America. That does not take away from the dysfunction, destruction and terror that I witness every day in the BC, which has been on an upward trend for decades. I know this. So what's your point, Kathy?

c.c.-kathy said...

"Well, there are some whites who will tell you what you want to hear. But most of them simply disengage because they don't want the hassle. You think whites sit around and worry about how to screw you? Wow, you really don't have a clue."

________________-
Grinder, that is so fucking stupid i can't even believe even a shit head like you would say that, most white people, now come the fuck on, won't engage, because they have opposing viewpoints. why are you saying such BULL? Grinder, I think you are saying what most white people want to say but dont', so i give you a big fat raisin oatmeal cookie for that.

c.c.-kathy said...

"For sure there is dysfunction in America. That does not take away from the dysfunction, destruction and terror that I witness every day in the BC, which has been on an upward trend for decades. I know this. So what's your point, Kathy?"
_________________-
The point is this, if America is suffering from dysfunction, than all her people are also suffering from dysfunction. All of us. Stop putting blame on Black people, it's our whole community of people, who are dysfunctional in many ways, in differnt degrees.

Anonymous said...

cc Kathy, "you kidding me, right? since when do Black people have "their own racism" if they aint got any power?"

Ok, for your sake, let's just say some Blacks are full of hate against Whites and will kill them, like the killer did to those four cops in Washington State.

Is that better? Just for you, consider Blacks as not capable of racism but merely capable of hate that "kills".

Btw, have you ever done anything for Blacks other than blog on their behalf? Do you hate being White that much? God must be very sad.

Anonymous said...

cc Kathy, "it's our whole community of people, who are dysfunctional in many ways, in differnt degrees."

The point is that the dysfunction in the BC is killing us and leading to extinction. That's the very point of the comments to grinder that you have missed and certainly haven't related to. But you couldn't possibly know, considering that you are White and have never experienced such terror and destruction, such as gang banging and teens killing each other.

But hey, keep diluting and diminishing the truth in the BC. That way you can help accelerate our demise.

c.c.-kathy said...

Btw, have you ever done anything for Blacks other than blog on their behalf? Do you hate being White that much? God must be very sad.
_____________
Why would I do anything for Black people, when I don't view "having done anything for Blacks" as a solution? Whiteness is a problem, white lens is a problem, and Grinder is constantly viewing things through a white lens, so I do challenge his thinking, but thanks, I don't think God has anything to do with this.

c.c.-kathy said...

"But you couldn't possibly know, considering that you are White and have never experienced such terror and destruction, such as gang banging and teens killing each other."

____________
Yes, maybe I missed that point. I am brain dead.

c.c.-kathy said...

"Ok, for your sake, let's just say some Blacks are full of hate against Whites and will kill them, like the killer did to those four cops in Washington State."
__________

i really got to go now, you ever heard of Colin Fergusin, nobody said that was right, but at least bell hooks actually had the balls to look at it, and think about it for a minute, unlike you.

SmashedtheTinyBlackBox said...

I counter that with, "the quiet bigotry of low expectations"

Real nice phrase, but high expectations are tough, and sympathy doesn't cut it.


I think, grinder it is essentially the same thing. Not dreaming big = low expectations. The soft bigotry of it can come from believing the lies of inherent inferiority from society...the media, school, family, whatever source.

The truth is, most people want to be led around like a dog. If Rome had been sacked by Hannibal and whites were in this position instead, the psychological issues would still be the same.

Most people here want blacks to be coddled,

Don't really think that's true. I think people here mostly want a fair shake and respect like anyone else. That said, at the end of the day, self-centeredness is a survival instinct. Just ask Geithner, Madoff, Bush, Cheney, Jefferson, etc. Human nature is universal. Even white people have to learn to control negative thinking and self-serving behavior.

You think whites sit around and worry about how to screw you?

Most, probably not. Many more do this than you think however. From my personal experience 8 out of every ten pretend to be your "friend" or "buddy" only to screw you over. Not unusual behavior from any race, true. But in my experience, these whites will do it out of jealousy and pure racist spite. i.e. "How dare that colored person get that position. It must be from affirmative action. You know they're inherently inferior and dumb. Let me put them in their place." Or "how dare that colored person live in that house. They must have dealt drugs or something. Lemme spread a rumor to that effect. Put them in their place by turning everyone against them." As a kid I was FORCED to live amongst your people for over 10 years so I know the deal. I'm quite experienced with that culture.

SmashedtheTinyBlackBox said...

Sorry, BIG CORRECTION to this
8 out of every ten pretend to be your "friend" or "buddy" only to screw you over.
It's only 2 out of every ten. I mean 80% will generally leave you alone.

agape2010 said...

FN-

Bravo!! And I ask the question one more time on your blog...WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF BLACKS IN AMERICA? Will we sit idly by and allow our future be determined for us..or will we determine it for ourselves? And will we perpetuate our "race" (their term not mine) or will we allow others to determine what it will LOOK like in twenty years? Pro black does not make me anti anything else. Peace.

~agape2010~

~

Anonymous said...

cc Kathy, "Whiteness is a problem, white lens is a problem, and Grinder is constantly viewing things through a white lens, so I do challenge his thinking,"

And what about you? What lens are you looking through? Did you consider that you might be looking through the wrong lens? At least Grinder is being honest in looking through his own lens instead of pretending to be some goodie two shoes like you.

Btw, when will the REAL Kathy start blogging again? Do you two switch off every other week?

c.c.-kathy said...

At least Grinder is being honest in looking through his own lens instead of pretending to be some goodie two shoes like you.

Btw, when will the REAL Kathy start blogging again? Do you two switch off every other week?

2:10 AM__
____
Yes I switch off every other week, how did you know that:)), sometimes in between, too.

my goodie two shoes are switching off now,too:O)) but you will still be anonymous.

SincerelyGo said...

I wanted to do a post on this but yours is good enough! lol yeah I didn't understand that. But I neede more research, wondering if there was already a significant difference in unemployment rates amongst the races. If not I think it would be wise to guess-timate that when the layoffs came around guess whose the first to go? Sad but I'm willing to put my money on it. But I'm not a pro-black kinda person some things just are...and it sucks! But I agree we need to handle our business, be as professional, educated and likeable as we can be. At this moment that's the answer!

Sincerely,

Go

uptownsteve said...

Flyinmy40s

"And what's worse is that when you do acknowledge it, you're called an uncle Tom or worse, a "Token"."

Cuz' that's exactly what you are.

Your contempt for and resentment of your own people is a sad thing to behold.

alicia banks said...

fn:

of course some degrees are in demand more than others!

and that varies annually!

ie
i encourage my students to major in computer sci

i have spent most of my corp life in tech industries...but there was no internet in 1980 when i was an undergrad...law/radio and education were my passions...so i
chose my degrees wisely

today
black radio is dead
and teaching has become sheer hell in all arenas

i am currently a techie admin...
i constantly learn otj...
if i was 12 again
i would have a phd in computer sci now...

all grads today must become eternal students due to the insecurity of all industries and the constant job changes they will endure

eternal students will rule...as i said diversity is always the key

in an age where rampant illiteracy/twitter/email etc have ruined basic comm skills
comm degrees will soon be in demand again

BUT

as it relates to to your topic:

i assure you that degrees are wholly irrelevant when racist employers make chops and cut corp fat

in 2009+, the obama effect fuels those racist employers who cut exclusively black corp fat leaner and quicker than ever

"we have a black prez...so bye blacks!"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34116959

http://www.theroot.com/blogs/browntable/college-educated-blacks-lose-more-jobs-peers

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/12/business/12RACE.html?hp

uptownsteve said...

"But hey, keep diluting and diminishing the truth in the BC. That way you can help accelerate our demise."

Spoken like another bitter bearilla who can't get a man.

Anonymous, some of us black folks are quite happy and content in our lives.

Don't conflate your misery onto the entire community.

W said...

Alicia what are some of the solutions to the problem of disproportionate black unemployment?

I was watching Cornel West comment on the problem in a video and he talks about the common "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" reply most whites give to blacks. But he says it doesn't matter how much initiative you have if the govt doesn't provide the opportunities. So I am wondering what are these opportunities? More college grants? Federally mandated job programs?

He also thinks some kind of bailout for the poor would be appropriate.. but how would you do that? And how would that fix things in the the long term.

So I am looking for ideas here on how we can solve the black unemployment situation.

Demon Hunter said...

Your views on unemployment are spot on. I know a young brother who is a HIGH SCHOOL ENGLISH TEACHER, and is currently in litigation with his former school because they refused to forward information needed by at least two other schools who wanted to hire him. And they are getting sued as we speak. WTF?

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve, that was sexist and stupid, that anon was a black man.

Anonymous said...

Uts "Spoken like another bitter bearilla who can't get a man.

Anonymous, some of us black folks are quite happy and content in our lives.

Don't conflate your misery onto the entire community."

Just lost a relative in front of my house by gunfire. Where I live many are scared to death for their lives. PSDT is quite common among the Blacks I know. However, I recognize that you are considered very wise and the critic of people who don't have the experience you have. How should I see my community and black brothers and sisters? Should I tell them that things are better where you are and don't "conflate" their miseries with the entire community?


Should I tell them about your insight into the BC and how wrong they are? You, "Mr. Know-It-All". who determines who is delusional and conflates their misery with the entire black community... Mr. UTS, who undermines the realities of other's experiences...Tell that to my nephew who lost his father due to a drive-by. Tell that to my cousins who lost their teenage child due to gangbanging. Yes, you are right. We should not conflate our miseries with you good-timining Blacks.

You are one condescending jackass. BTW, I am a man, and not "a bearilla who can't get a man", you dumb shit.

alicia banks said...

w:

my suggestions

vouchers for private schools!

tie reponsible parenting in with welfare reform/benefits...ie
in tx they lock up parents for truancy and it helps!

give college students credit for national academic mentoring program

adopt a 3 strikes policy for horrid kids who have no interest in lerning...put them OUT of public schools as quickly as they are ejected from pvt schools...build more alternative schhols to house them so they can stop robbing others of their educations and burning out teachers!

educate parents who do not teach their children to revere ed/help their own kids with lessons etc!

kill NCLB totally and immediately!
it has been genocide in academia.

recruit black male teachers and increase all teachers salaries

MANDATE that all parents volunteer weekly at schools!

see more:

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/the-impending-doom-of-a-nation---our-horrid-schools.html
and much more:
&

ADVERTISE ACCOUNTABILITY TO EXPOSE APATHY!!!

KUDOS TO WARRIOR PARENTS IN DC!!!

An organization of rebel educators called D.C. Children First is calling out President Barack Obama/GWB 2.0 on his broken promises. Obama axed the popular and necessary D. C. Opportunity Scholarship Program. Then, just as he gutted 85 million dollars from historically black colleges and universities, he boldly offered no alternatives. Now, the poor and wise black parents he betrayed are amplifying their rebel calls with a scathing television ad. This is an act of revolution that will be televised!

In a typically amoral politico move, Obama is still brazenly ignoring these poor black parents. He has a very long list of brazenly broken promises that he similarly ignores. Rather than belatedly become accountable to these parents, Obama has sent his drones to try to kill their righteous rebellion and their revealing TV ad.

Obama’s newest evil deed is further solid evidence that he is a rabidly ruthless elitist. Elitists truly feel entitled to endless special privileges that they deliberately deny all impoverished “peasants” whom they rule. Until major and complex reforms are achieved, most public schools are doomed. Best wishes to those poor black parents in DC who righteously demand that their own children deserve superior educations precisely like those that Malia Obama and Sasha Obama are receiving.

Academic sage Jonathan Kozol said it best in his rebel literary masterpiece “The Shame of a Nation: The Restoration of Apartheid Schooling in America”:

“In a nation in which fairness was respected, children of the poorest and least educated mothers would receive the most expensive and most costly pre-school preparation, not the least and cheapest, because children in these families need it so much more than those whose educated parents can deliver the same benefits of early learning to them in their home….The inequities in educational provisions that we give, or do not give, these children from the starting gate are given less attention.”

SAVE THE D.C. OPPORTUNITY SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM!!!

Activism trumps apathy. Actions trump words. Obama’s blackish mask is being slowly removed by the overkill of his incessantly empty words. May these local rebels spark a national revolution of anti-Obama Nazism!!!

See more on Obama's betrayals:

http://www.dcchildrenfirst.org/website/article.asp?id=7

http://www.dcchildrenfirst.org/website/article.asp?id=10

http://www.saveschoolchoice.com/media-private.php

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/moving_america_news/13428

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/01/rallying-for-school-vouchers/#

http://voicesofschoolchoice.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPjHUMiBSRw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnPndrUZg3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVtVSOOXaWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzZJoPu1OQ




!

alicia banks said...

w:

excuse the typos
rushing as usual

ps:

model all parenting and ed upon china/japan

they understand that parenting is not a right and that education = global rule

grinder said...

I was watching Cornel West comment on the problem in a video and he talks about the common "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" reply most whites give to blacks. But he says it doesn't matter how much initiative you have if the govt doesn't provide the opportunities. So I am wondering what are these opportunities? More college grants? Federally mandated job programs?

I have always had very mixed feelings about the "bootstraps" ideology. I think the major institutions should take an active role in helping people out.

But there is considerable truth in "bootstrap" rhetoric too. We'll give foodstamps because we should. We provide some (and hopefully more) medical care because we should. Primary and secondary education is free. There is considerable help with college, and so on and on.

But none of those things are substitutes for getting your personal shit together. To the extent than anyone thinks they'll be able to sit back and rely on someone else for their success, they are either born with an inheritance or they have got it all wrong.

In America, the vast majority of people, including black people, make their own luck. There are exceptions both on the upside and the downside, and as a society we should try to fill in the worst gaps, but all of those exceptions and efforts ought to be seen as proving the underlying rule.

People who tell you this are not your enemies. They are the only friends you've really got because they're willing to tell the truth even when you don't want to hear it. That's what good friends do.

Anonymous said...

grinder, "People who tell you this are not your enemies. They are the only friends you've really got because they're willing to tell the truth even when you don't want to hear it. That's what good friends do."

I agree and you have been a good friend to many on this blog. You have spoken a lot of truth that many have not wanted to hear. That, of course, is why you have been called names by some who don't want to hear it.

uptownsteve said...

Anonymous,

"Should I tell them that things are better where you are and don't "conflate" their miseries with the entire community?"

Uh, yeah.

The problems in your community and your relatives' tragedy have nothing to do with being black.

Those acts were committed by CRIMINALS!!!!

Are you suggesting that criminality and blackness are one and the same?

There are no law abiding black folks or safe black communities??

You my friend are a self-hating jackass who has internalized white racism.

uptownsteve said...

"In America, the vast majority of people, including black people, make their own luck."

So why do you repeatedly equate dysfunction and failure with blackness?

alicia banks said...

w;

re bailouts for the poor

rather than give endless trillions to ruthless bankers who gave no loans and ciorp execs who saved no jobs:

stop forelocsures for 6-12 mos

give all homeowners a 3-6 mos pass on delinquent mortgages

give poor people stimulus plans that will help them catch up
now!

dole out immediate tax breaks per low incomes etc

give poor people food/utility bill vouchers

give the poor bus/train passes

etc

it is far easier to bail out the poor than bilk them to pay rich

obama is an elitist who chooses to help his megarich owners and peers ONLY as he boldly ignores the suicidally adoring poor...

shame!!!

Lola Gets said...

YES! I am so glad to see you taking on this topic, Field. Im so happy about this, that Im going to link this post to one of mine.

This ish is depressing to a job seeker like myself.

L

alicia banks said...

w:

more great ideas re jobs etc. here:


http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=60c2354ff4d42fc89def4487e33bd678

grinder said...

So why do you repeatedly equate dysfunction and failure with blackness?

I will turn that right around. What makes you think that I do?

grinder said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
grinder said...

Question for all:

Is there any way for people here to disagree on racial issues without having it turn into a nuclear exchange?

W said...

I like the ideas Alicia.

On a side note about corporate bailouts... I must take the position of my favorite faux news reporter Jon Stewart when he told Biden that instead of bailing out the banks with the toxic mortgages we should of just paid off the mortgages. The banks would get their money and the people would get their homes. And in regards to African American families in particular... their family home is usually the only piece of real wealth they have.

Reading that EPI report and Chicago report linked from it... does make a person sick thinking of all the money spent on the wars.

uptownsteve said...

Yeah grinder,

When you stop wagging your finger at every black person who takes issue with your remarks as if they are some paranoid defeatist waiting for the gubmint to save them.

"People who tell you this are not your enemies. They are the only friends you've really got because they're willing to tell the truth even when you don't want to hear it. That's what good friends do."

Remarks like these are extremely condescending and offensive.

First off you act as if your white skin entitles you lecture us po dumb black folks on the secrets of success in America.

Second of all you are in total denial of the social advantages white people are born with and the still persistent racism in America.

Thirdly you don't know the personal of any person on this board so where do you get off lecturing people?

alicia banks said...

w;

ditto thanks

a rebel pal who is an ex-marine told me that the war is obama's job plan for young poor blacks

the young rich kids have been bailed out by association to bankers etc...as college students via rich parents who have been given tuition via bonuses etc (as the poor parents were robbed of loans and homes)

our bailout is becoming cannon fodder or resorting to crime as we starve homeless and becoming prison labor/stock!

just like druting vietnam
see more at:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com

shame!!!

Anonymous said...

Can Alicia Banks ever stay on topic without mentioning Obama?

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Why is it that the unemployment rate for black folks with college degrees is twice that of what it is for their white counterparts? And higher, even, than whites with less credentials?[/quote]

Filled-Negro:

My quest on your propaganda blog is ultimately TO MAKE A BETTER MAN out of you.

How ironic that I too have been focusing on the Black Unemployment problem. From my perspective I've been noting that in the places where "the POLITICAL victories have been won"........these are also the epicentres of BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT.

Thus all of the while you have been WINNING (via that which you have been focused upon)....you have been LOSING (that which you have left abandoned).

The Jobless Rate For People Like You
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/12/jobless-rate-for-people-like-you.html

The Epicenters For Black Unemployment
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/12/epicenters-of-black-unemployment-places.html

Congressional Black Caucus Should Be Put Under The Microscope Not Just Obama:
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/12/congressional-black-progressive-caucus.html



You see Filled Negro here is my view.

The fact is that EDUCATION is the key variable that improves the station in life for the African-American. When you choose to compare the fate of the uneducated Negro to the Black person with a degree your rant in which you focus on WHITE FOLKS becomes a moot point.

I do understand the importance of racial victimization to the racism chaser. Without it you would have no identity.

The point that you are attempting to argue is that SOCIETY owes YOU a job. IF there is indeed a gap then this is proof of racism or some other form of oppression.

We only need to consider the recent story of Milwaukee WI - a Democratic strong hold. The Blacks who are mostly in the central city cried RACISM over the fact that they had the exit their city borders, which is run by favorable people and go into the White suburbs to look for a JOB.

A person with your consciousness will focus your angst upon the "racial preference" in which people who MOVED ALL BY THEMSELVES might show preference to hire THEMSELVES rather than those who they MOVED AWAY FROM.

What you REALLY NEED TO BE LOOKING AT, Filled Negro is that despite having all of the buildings that once were not accessible under your political control INSIDE of this and other cities - as you were building POLITICAL power you failed to build up ECONOMIC and MANAGEMENT acumen in preparation for this day.

Just as my recent expose' of Samuel Gompers Elementary in Philly in which after a half a century of struggle to GET INTO THIS SCHOOL - now that it is in control of "favorable people" many of them are choosing NOT to send their children there.

It was not the BUILDING that was the issue of access. Clearly it was what was INSIDE of the building that was of value that people who look like you sought to access. Now that this force is GONE......those who know how to RECREATE this magic have chosen to do so in a charter school right around the corner.

Those who have a CONSUMER consciousness will continue on their CHASE!!!
They note their social justice RIGHTS more than they are able to take inventory of the resources that they have at their disposal and leverage them.

SO THE REAL QUESTION FOR YOU, Filled Negro is:

WHY ISN'T:

* Philly
* Newark
* Camden
* Trenton
* York PA
and Irving

able to MAKE BETTER USE of these educated Black people, deploying them into productive capacities in which the spiritual, mental, commercial and economic interests of the community is not better LEVERAGED?

Now that you have cleared out your IDEOLOGICAL ADVERSARIES from these places, Filled Negro - WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO DO THIS FOR YOU?

Don said...

I agree with pretty much everything you say Field. And on this particular post where you broke it down in terms of the problem and perhaps an ideal solution - I cannot agree with you MORE.

Too funny @ Still, some of these large companies- with their last hired first fired [Negro] policies- need to get checked.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]konagod said...

Having been a product of the Mississippi Delta, I have seen racism alive and well my entire life. However, that being said, I still had no idea it was SO alive until Obama got into the aptly named White House.

Just look at the opinion polls in Arkansas of W's approval ratings in 2007. On a red to blue scale, it was Massachusetts blue. And how deceiving that proved to be in the general election.

The state went even MORE Republican than it had when it re-elected Bush in 2004. All that blue dissatisfaction easily went red when facing black prospects.
[/quote]

konagod:

I am forced to agree with you about the power of RACIALISM.

In the Southern state of GEORGIA I read about a BLACK MAN who was shot 31 times at 12 noon by 2 shooters and the Black people in the same community who saw it were so scared of "Snitching" that he has not been caught yet.

I hope that this racialism will stopped and the BLACK shooters caught one day.

Let me ask you a question konagod:

IF Obama's LOW opinion polls among WHITE FOLKS is a sign of RACISM and proof that there is NOTHING HE CAN DO to please them............................what do you call Obama's 90% APPROVAL RATING among Black folks DESPITE the facts that many Black folks are suffering from:

* High Unemployment
* Failing Schools & Systems
* Higher Crime Threats
* Higher Infectious Diseases?

WHY is it that the DEMOCRATS WHO RUN THEIR COMMUNITIES are still able to get consistently elected DESPITE these painful facts?

I would like for you to model the VOTER NULLIFICATION among BLACK FOLKS and attribute it to some force JUST AS YOU HAVE DONE with White folks in Mississippi.

What is the cause of this?

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]
Reading & listening to Barbara Ehrenreich made this even more clear for me. She reinforced ideas and beliefs I already had.... she really breaks down the American economy. The last 16 years, especially the last 10, have opened my eyes in terms of the American facade. It has been like the adult equivalent of learning that Santa isn't real and that Christmas is just a BS Holiday. (The American Dream isn't real either). I wish someone would have told me a Hell of a lot sooner.

And if you are Black... it's even harder. [/quote]

NAME ONE JOB THAT BARBARA EHRENREICH has EVER created.

Some of you are DEPRESSED FAILURES and yet you can't even see that what you FEED YOURSELF is the reason for your mental diabetes!!!

Seriously Angry Independent. Can you tell me a scenario in which a JOB created by Barbara Ehrenreich and other GRIEVANCE DISTRIBUTORS would NOT BE a Government Controlled Job?

Ask Ms Ehrenreich about the nation that best matches HER own ideal of perfection. I bet that the nation does not exist or it will be a nation with little economic freedom for its people.


I recall from before that in this season you are most depressed.

Your eyes have been opened to the truth about America. I wonder why you haven't chosen to find yourself somewhere else like your boy Francis Holland has? Your brilliance is needed in Haiti, Guatemala and Chad.

I need to learn about the process of Aluminum Smelting. I think I will pick up the latest Van Jones book on how to do this with more energy efficiency.

PLEASE!!!

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]There is no question that these numbers are a result of systemic racism. And, given that the overwhelming majority of the people of this country are struggling for resources that are limited for us... I think that in addition to looking at each other and trying to work this through... we ALSO need to all turn our collective heads to the corporate elites (Goldman Sachs projects 20 BILLION IN BONUSES TO THEIR BANKERS!!!) and say hell no!

We cannot continue to fight for the crumbs.... to engage in the divide and conqueor strategy while those that control the overwhelming amount of wealth in this country sit behind their gated community locked doors with piles and piles of money MADE FROM OUR SWEAT PEOPLE!!!! It is our labor that produces their wealth...

[/quote]

Jody - I like you but this post is nothing short of IGNORANT!

Seriously - do you ever sit back and think about not just the DISTRIBUTION of dollars but the VALUE of dollars and other forms of wealth in this nation?

You argue that it is mis-allocated and that there is a need for a fight for social justice to correct this. Have you ever thought as to why, for example a region like southern Africa or the western part of Brazil could not just start printing a particular currency, DISTRIBUTING IT EQUALLY and thus making everyone "rich" in equal proportions?

We have a $15,000 BILLION economy, year over year and you are worried about $20BILLION going to certain executives?

Why not focus on the squandered PRODUCTIVITY and misapplied INTELLIGENCE AND POTENTIAL in Philadelphia alone? This would amount to more than $20 billion.

You say YOUR SWEAT is being stolen? Look at the city of Philadelphia. There is a whole lot of bodies that are not SWEATING because they are underused RESOURCES. I challenge you Jody to come up with an organic method by which you FOCUS ON THEM. Make sure that every penny of their productivity that YOU bring on line DOES NOT ESCAPE the microeconomy of West Philly, etc.

Do you see that you are merely a RHETORICAL Torch and Pitchfork Carrier. You seek to go after wealth that has been created more than you know how to create wealth out of unemployed resources.

Do you see that you and other centralized confiscators are more conscious about wealth that has been created and misallocated than you are about UNDERDEVELOPED human potential, much of it suffering because they have adopted your consciousness?

[quote]
We need micro banking. We need to restore regulations that were stripped out during the Reagan Revolution that concentrated the wealth in fewer hands. Time for them to stop hoarding or time for them to go. I personally vote time for them to go!!!
[/quote]

WHO IS THEM?

Seriously. If we look at the stratification of POWER at present LOCALLY where there is most suffering. State-wide in places like PA, MI, OH, NY, MD....WHO will you be VOTING OUT? What about the Federal Legislature? WHO will you be voting out Jody?

Do you ever thing that if Haiti, Honduras and Laos just simply BROUGHT FORTH REGULATION that they would soon rival the United States of America as a world power?

It is clear to me that you don't practice in a CORPORATE law firm but some sort of defendant rights entity.

Constructive Feedback said...

W:

Please define what "Excess Profits" are?

WHO defines them?

Profit Margins by industry:
http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2008/05/04/59882.aspx

With your PROFIT REDISTRIBUTION PLAN can you detail exactly the SKILLS ENHANCEMENT that are received by these "Low-Income Households" that receive the benefit of this government based redistribution?

What will your plan do to insure that they don't need the money 1 year, 5 years, 10 years from now OR does this not matter to you?

I would love to see you and Van Jones manage to come up with a GREEN ECONOMY and thus allow these oil companies to "keep their stinking oil" as your PRIMARY MOTIVATION than I would support this "Theft by Government Taking". The only thing that this will result in is a more loyal POOR VOTING BASE to insure that the people who GAVE them these entitlements never disappear.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]I don't think reparations is necessarily absurd. White people did get a whole heck of a lot of free labor from black people.[/quote]

The same man who talks about REDISTRIBUTING OIL COMPANY PROFITS per the government........is talking about someone BENEFITING FROM FREE LABOR per the policies in place?

W - can you articulate for us if YOU have received the aggregate benefit today from:

* Stolen Land taken from Native Americans?

* Government buildings in DC built with "Slave Labor"?

* Northern and Southern economies founded with Slavery?

Tell us , W, EXACTLY how has the average White person who stands next to you to-damned-day benefited from SLAVERY more than YOU HAVE today?

When you take your charge card to Sears what particular preference do they have over you?

Keep WAITING for your Reparations.
Once the US Debt hits $20,000 billion and the annual debt serving expenditures hit $700 billion per year this rhetoric will be the least of your concerns.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Alicia what are some of the solutions to the problem of disproportionate black unemployment?

I was watching Cornel West comment on the problem in a video and he talks about the common "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" reply most whites give to blacks.
[/quote]

I am not sure which is more offensive. Angry Independent listening to Barbara E. or W listening to Cornel West talk about JOBS.

SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESSING EMPLOYMENT DISPARITIES

1) Force the people who control your LOCAL INSTITUTIONS to commit themselves to policies that drive PRODUCTIVITY and utilization of all of the community resources over Policies of EXTERNAL DEPENDENCY. Govern yourself by policies that PROVE TO BE PRODUCTIVE rather than which fit most closely to your own ideology while you are AGGRIEVED.

2) Apply the theory of "PEOPLE OVER PROFITS" to the INDIVIDUALS in your community rather than just the CORPORATIONS as you seek to pick their pocket. Tell these EDUCATED PEOPLE that their training is needed to take the lead in the provisioning of services for the community. Start out by accepting less than the MARKET VALUE that is defined by greater America and instead focus on LOCAL COMMUNITY VALUE. Over time once the system is developed the money will flow.

3) Disconnect from and eventually REJECT inflow of funds and resources that WERE NOT generated from your own productive resources but instead are due to someone else valuing your American citizenship. This grows DEPENDENCY rather than PRODUCTIVITY and COMPETENCY

4) Communicate to the masses that THEY ARE ALL EQUAL and thus they are expected to contribute to the bottom line IF they seek to benefit from the fruits of the realignment of consciousness and economy

5) (And most importantly) OPERATE NOW as if AMERICA IS BANKRUPT and all of the ENTITLEMENTS that you have been used to are gone and thus YOU NEED TO DO IT YOURSELF. This will prompt you to order your local systems accordingly. When this day COMES - and it will - YOU WILL BE THAT MUCH MORE PREPARED. This system can be reestablished REGARDLESS of where you live.

W said...

Constructive Feedback:

You must of misinterpreted my posting. I pretty much disagree with Cornell West and the Chicago study that a federally mandated jobs program will fix long term problems. Aka the govt cant keep shelling out money and creating govt jobs.

Where I agree with Cornel is that the wars have been a gigantic waste of money that could of been spent on the infrastructure of the United States.

2nd I have a problem with defining excess profits as well.

On benefits of slavery to white people today:

"The legacy of slavery has benefited every white person in this country--directly and personally. In a very gross analogy, if you run a series of foot races over 300 years but prevent 13 percent of the participants from learning how to run for 180 years and then give them concrete sneakers for another 80 years--but allow them full access for 40 years, it will take the 13 percent quite a few races to be competitive because the other 87 percent advanced their skills by practice and repetition.

Life is not a foot race, but it is a fact that the average white person would not economically benefit from switching places with an average black person (black households average one-tenth the household wealth of white households). If you believe all people are created equal, there has to be a reason for this--and there is: racism."

Credit: http://diversityinc.com/content/1757/article/991/

I've never honestly thought about it a lot, because honestly as a white person I have the luxury of not having to think about race. But that analogy sounds logical, but I have my problems with it as well. For example that analogy could be used for a very long time because if whites and blacks are equal then whites should never lose their advantage in the race since they have such a head start. So is there ever a time when the benefit stops? I guess that would be when black incomes and wealth match whites.

The statistic given by the website: (black households average one-tenth the household wealth of white households)

Is very interesting though.

W said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]"The legacy of slavery has benefited every white person in this country--directly and personally. In a very gross analogy, if you run a series of foot races over 300 years but prevent 13 percent of the participants from learning how to run for 180 years and then give them concrete sneakers for another 80 years--but allow them full access for 40 years, it will take the 13 percent quite a few races to be competitive because the other 87 percent advanced their skills by practice and repetition.[/quote]

W - HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR ALL OF THE POOR WHITE FOLKS IN THIS NATION?

IF WHITE FOLKS are all content - how do you explain JODY? She is willing to take a symbolic shotgun and march with you to break open the fort that contains all of America's concentrated wealth with you by her side.

I FOCUS ON THE DESTRUCTION OF OPPORTUNITY AND THE SQUANDERED POTENTIAL THAT IS TAKING PLACE TO-DAMNED-DAY

THIS is the only thing that we have to work with.

Today's actions is tomorrow's HISTORY.

alicia banks said...

assnon:

the topic is unemployment you raging fool

obama is at the helm of all bilking/bailouts/buyouts/banking/budgets...

only a moron would not make the link

only an obama nazi would pretend the same

W said...

"W - HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR ALL OF THE POOR WHITE FOLKS IN THIS NATION?"

Since you seem to like to lay down hard "truths" for all the black people out there... let me lay down one for white people...(Hey that includes me!)

How do I account for all the poor white folks? Oh that's easy... greed... class manipulation... lies... failures... etc... all the old good ones.

But you miss my point... think about it this way HERE IS A HARD TRUTH WHITE PEOPLE! Here it comes!

A lot of white people complain that black's problems are caused by lack of motivation, discipline, etc... bla bla bla..

But think about how damn pitiful the poor white people of today's ancestors must of been with all the opportunities that were afforded them!

Hell back in our history white people could get FREE land for just moving west! We could buy slaves! And many more mechanisms to secure long term wealth!

If black people today have all the necessary things to accomplish success then whats the excuse for white people who have had advantages up the yazooo throughout history on black people yet their parents are poor and family have no real wealth?

So black people don't hold a candle to the white people who are still poor today in terms of supposed discipline, motivation, etc.

The whole point is that black people were robbed the chance to build generational wealth! Everyone depends on someone for their success, rare is the person who has no support whatsoever and still succeeds.

But yeah a lot of it goes back to individuals themselves... like take my family history for example... my family first arrived in America in 1743! And yet my parents are middle class at best. So a lot definitely depends on each individuals' choices.

thoughtmerchant said...

http://thoughtmerchant.net/2009/12/09/matt-taibbiobamas-big-sell-out/

Matt Taibbi: "Obama's Big Sell Out" Links to the full article with video

Thought Merchant
Politics and Commentary for the Thinking Person of Color
"Better to sell an idea then to buy a lie!!"

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