Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Brothers "can you spare a dime?"



"Them belly full, but we hungry; A hungry mob is a angry mob. A rain a-fall, but the dutty tough; [rain is falling but the dirt is still hard] A yot a-yook, but d' yood no 'nough.[a pot is cooking but the food is not enough] " ~Bob Marley~

Oh lawd O man, I think the natives are getting restless. The black side of your family is threatening to come out of the basement and embarrass you in front of the rest of A-merry-ca.

I think they are upset because it seems like you have been doing more for Wall Street than Mai....no, not main street, MLK Boulevard. (Doesn't every black neighborhood in every city have an MLK boulevard?) I mean this recession has really hit black folks. And they see you in the White House and wonder why you can't throw a bone their way.

Oh field, stop it. The man is president of all A-merry-cans, he has to be presidential. I guess you want him to go down to the hood and sit on the corner and sip a malt liquor with pookey "an dem." It doesn't work that way field, we are talking about the president here. Didn't you see him getting with the bankers yesterday? Come on field, the man has only been in office a year now, give him some time.

OK, I will give him some more time. After eight years of the frat boy I know he needs it. But it just seems like the man on the street (not only black folks) are getting left behind while Geithner and his banker friends in Manhattan clean up. And please spare me the economics 101 speech. I get it. The banks had to be bailed out or there would have been no loans for anybody. A-merry-ca would have been in big trouble. But now the bonuses are flying again, the DOW is over 10,000 and poor people still can't find jobs.

Mrs. Field broke my heart today (not to mention my checkbook) by telling me about a family she adopted and their woes for Christmas. That shit is not cool. And it's not like these people don't want to work. They do. But no one is hiring.

I am no fan of the CBC, but I have to give them a some props for getting with his O ness recently.

"Black lawmakers who have largely held their tongues during President Barack Obama's first year in office are stepping up their demands that the nation's first black president do more for minority communities hit hardest by the recession.

While still careful about criticizing Obama publicly, they appear to be losing their patience after watching him dedicate more than $1 trillion to prop up banks and corporations and fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, while double-digit unemployment among blacks crept even higher.

"Obama has tried desperately to stay away from race, and all of us understand what he's doing," said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo. "But when you have such a disproportionate number of African-Americans unemployed, it would be irresponsible not to direct attention and resources to the people who are receiving the greatest level of pain."


Dating back to Obama's campaign, many black leaders have pressed him to take more of a stand on the challenges facing minorities. Most voiced criticisms privately for fear of jeopardizing his candidacy or undercutting his popularity after his election. They also have tread lightly so as not to be at odds with their own majority-black constituencies, who strongly support Obama........ frustration has been building. The 42-member Congressional Black Caucus flexed its influence last week when 10 of its members held up a financial regulation bill backed by the administration until leaders agreed to add about $3 billion in foreclosure relief for struggling homeowners. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the House Financial Services Committee chairman, later added $1 billion for neighborhood revitalization programs.

During the stalemate, the lawmakers issued a statement saying they would no longer support public policy "defined by the world view of Wall Street."
[Link]

Good for them. And did I see where the author said that black lawmakers were afraid to confront his O ness for fear of a backlash from their constituents? Interesting.

You gotta love us black folks. We stay down with brown no matter what.

"Cost of livin' gets so high, Rich and poor they start to cry:Now the weak must get strong;They say, "Oh, what a tribulation!"Them belly full, but we hungry;A hungry mob is a angry mob"

Wrong Bob! Only the poor is crying. The rich will be fine.

160 comments:

Swiff said...

Man, I love that Marley song, especially in bootleg live recording form. That was my jam during Katrina.

As for the banks apparently McCain in favor of BREAKING THEM UP. Looks like someone's not afraid of his primary challenger!

La♥Incognita said...

I don't know Field, I have a big confession. The other day I was driving to work-jail and I realize I'm starting to feel Alicia's drift about Obama. gasp. (That thought alone scares me). I'm trying my best here, but he better start pre heating the oven or something in my direction. I'm fitting to panic. I'm one savings account away from living paycheck to paycheck, but I'm still grateful. Two weeks ago I had to get a personal loan from the bank in order to pay off a medical debt, and to shop at the supermarket in the VI. And yes, I do have medical and dental insureshit.

(Btw, can you ask Mrs. Field to adopt me? I do have a fiance (sort a) but I'm only obligated to one child and two cats. The one cat doesn't even eat much, she just requires her own pillow on anybody's bed, that's all). So whatdoyasay? :)

RiPPa said...

Man for two weeks I've been encountering Negroes who are of opinion that the CBC was wrong. I'ono, but securing $6 billion for "the hood" doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

Val said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alicia banks said...

amen fn!

thank you!

kudos to the cbc!!!

the same racist coddlers who demanded that all blacks vote for obama are the same ones telling us not to ask obama to be too black...

what????

bob marley/malcolm x/huey newton/mlk/harriet/shirley c/fannie lh/ella baker!!!...

NONE of them would be down with the rabidly elitist antics of obama/gwb 2.0!!!

NOT ONE OF THEM as they all loved and lived for POOR people!

see many more links:

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/b-blackish-beguiling-betrayer.html

alicia banks said...

obama is actually cruelER to poor people than gwb was!

&

obama has spent MORE trillions on exclusively rich people in 8 mos than gwb spent in 8 yrs!

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/obama-drama-the-poor-are-getting-poorer-the-middle-class-becomes-the-new-poor.html

buffbaygrl said...

No jobs, a crappy healthcare bill, more wars, great photo ops and pretty speeches. The day will come when he will have to stand up to Lieberman but maybe he can't stand up if he has no core belief.
I voted for him as Senator and Preseident and I am sorry that he hs shown no spine except when it comes to avoiding the people who voted for him.
He is a politician and so I was wrong to expect he would reach for the people who supported him instead of the wall street. My bad.

alicia banks said...

li:

do not be afraid

just be aware and awake...

stay tuned here:

http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=search/node/obama

Greg L said...

The only "change" that Obama represents is the change in the caretaker of a broken political and economic system. That's the only sort of change he could possibly foster as there's an entire body politic dedicated to the status quo.

The status quo is designed to ensure the perpetuation of the oligarchy that basically rules the country and controls key mechanisms in the economy. How else could the federal reserve get away with printing a bunch of money to give to the banks? How else could we have a situation where our tax money is given to bailout the banks and nothing can be done to get you a job?

The fact of the matter is that this entire situation was predictable and the banks prepared by changing the bankruptcy laws and etc to create a way to draw even more blood from the stones.

Unfortunately, all of this has set the country on a path towards the scrap heap of history where it will join Rome, Spain, Great Britain and others as a failed state.

alicia banks said...

you have to be/have been poor or live/wk/love poor people to care...

obama does not care because he has never been poor!!!

all that bs was campaign fantasies
just like bubba said

obama's granparents were rich!

his "poor old wf granny toots" was a bank prez!!!

maybe that is why he dotes on bankers so!

http://www.stop-obama.org/?p=204

alicia banks said...

gl:

preach!

obama was groomed and selected to be the blackish mask upon the upgraded face of the new world order

he and gwb et al played us all like global charms...

gwb will STEAL 4 consecutive terms as prez via his blood kin obama...

tavis smiley/me/ and many more will be vindicated SOON

the worst is yet to come!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

alicia banks said...

i really miss george carlin and tupac daily

they both would be blasting obama!

george:

"The owners of this country know the truth: It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

"This country was founded by a group of slave owners who wanted to be. Am I right? A group of slave owners who wanted to be free! So they killed a lot of white English people in order to continue owning their black African people, so they could wipe out the rest of the red Indian people, in order to move west and steal the rest of the land from the brown Mexican people, giving them a place to take off and drop their nuclear weapons on the yellow Japanese people. You know what the motto for this country ought to be? 'You give us a color, we'll wipe it out.'"
__

there are only 2 colors now globally

corp green rich
&
blood red poor

shame!!!

Greg L said...

ab

I'm watching one of the videos you provided. Spot on. The stuff is spot on. It's amazing how many people have come to the same conclusions. The left/right paradigm is total bullshit and a staged show and I see that there are some folks in the video who see it as I do. I came to that conclusion long ago. Thanks for sharing.

grinder said...

Change, he said.

Looks like pretty much the same old shit to me.

field negro said...

Swiff, why are you listening to "bootleg" Marley songs? I am going to tell Damian and the rest of the kids. :)

LOL@ La~Incognita, no girl, you might have to adopt me after these holidays. :(

"He is a politician and so I was wrong to expect he would reach for the people who supported him instead of the wall street. My bad."

"The only "change" that Obama represents is the change in the caretaker of a broken political and economic system. That's the only sort of change he could possibly foster as there's an entire body politic dedicated to the status quo."


buffbaygrl and Greg L, just summed up in those two quotes what more and more people are feeling.
I don't think we have gotten to AB stage yet, but the danger his O ness faces is that people will be mad enough to be apathetic come the next national election.

false1 said...

So African Americans are finally waking up to what was so obvious all along. What we voted for last November was not a man but a product. A brand. A slick ad campaign. Didn't Obama's campaign staff win some kind of advertising award earlier this year?

Policy, not personality. You don't have to sit down and have a beer with "Pookie" to promote policies aimed at the working classes or the poor. If you're afraid of reminding people that you're black there are plenty of opportunities for race neutral policy that will positively affect black folk simply because of our economic status.

More troubling, as mentioned by an earlier commenter, is that the result of his election was to put a black face on white supremacy causing more confusion among the masses. It's working brilliantly. I swear black folks would applaud the first African American Grand Dragon of the KKK if it ever happened (I wouldn't be too shocked if it did). And that bogus peace prize proves that this is a global endeavor to maintain Western hegemony.

The challenge for African Americans in the 21st century is whether we will applaud and hold up as role models those blacks who move up in status by promoting the worst instincts of capitalist, racist, militarist America or whether we can create an egalitarian, sustainable, inclusive ideal that our children can strive for. If racial progress in this country simply means that black folk will have the opportunity to exploit people of color for the benefit of white folks, who the hell needs it?

Anonymous said...

Well done as usual, Mr. Field! I will say again that white people need to wake up to the FACT that what happens to "y'all" eventually happens to "us." Pretty soon, the color barrier will be between Green and No Green (as in money) if it ain't already happened!

Very Truly Yours,
Radical Neck

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]After eight years of the frat boy I know he needs it. But it just seems like the man on the street (not only black folks) are getting left behind while Geithner and his banker friends in Manhattan clean up.[/quote]

Filled Negro:

I know this was hard for you to do.
Thus in relative terms - I must give you credit.

STILL I HAVE A PROBLEM.

1) Why don't you make note that we are now closing out the 3rd full year of a Democratic controlled US House and a Democratic controlled US Senate? The House is responsible for initiating spending bills

2) WHY do you focus upon the Federal government? In Philadelphia there is a LOCAL MACHINE and a STATE MACHINE - both of which are favorable to your ideological leanings that also impact the economy.

3) WHY don't you make note of the differences in economic fate between COMMUNITIES per the prevailing economic and cultural ideologies that are present within?

I am reluctant to put this all upon Obama BECAUSE this assists people like you in advancing your CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL theories.

We are a nation of LOCAL ECONOMIES that indeed has NATIONAL economic forces (ie: Federal Reserve).

The likely results of Federal Intervention will only be MORE FEDERAL DEBT.

Ironically this mounting federal debt and its resulting insolvency of the federal government is going to be the force that STEALS WAY YOUR GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE some time in the future rather than the evil Republicans that you focus upon so.


Filled Negro: WHY did you and others advance the local take over of institutions when it appears to be the case that you ultimately look to the outside government for the living standard that you seek?

uptownsteve said...

"The 42-member Congressional Black Caucus flexed its influence last week when 10 of its members held up a financial regulation bill backed by the administration until leaders agreed to add about $3 billion in foreclosure relief for struggling homeowners. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the House Financial Services Committee chairman, later added $1 billion for neighborhood revitalization programs."

Very well done CBC..

And Constructive Feedback, what have those black conservatives done for black folk lately?

Oh wait, I forgot.

There aren't any elected ones.

alicia banks said...

fn:

i will patiently wait for you with love my king...

millions will even surpass my stage soon enough...smile

this am on ABC, i heard the first announcements of obama's deliberate baiting of iran into war 3...

_____

f1:

ditto!!!

wait until obama starts BELATEDLY playing up his kenyan blood to gut africa via africom

ie
his african kin who have largely been invisible to date

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/obamas-africom-africon-the-new-african-mask-upon-the-new-world-order-1.html

_______

gl:

glad u enjoyed both!

my pleasure my king!

we are all at war as never before...awake or asleep...
we the sheeple are being fleeced globally by obama and his bilderberg puppeteers!

see many more obama videos here-
including one pre-prez run where he admitted openly that he plans to wipe out ALL EMPLOYER insurance covearage asap etc:

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/videos/

Adam said...

Field,

I know this....

I work for a fortune 30 company. I make a decent salary and I have decent benefits. I have been there 10 years. My mortgage and debts are fairly low. I own two used vehicles, one is 2004, the other a 1993 - I raise three children.

As of last week, I filled out applications for a second part time weekend work at Kmart and Walgreens. I will most likely be filling out applications for stores like Jewel-Osco, Kroger, and Walmart.

All the best,

Adam

alicia banks said...

adam:

you are not alone

god bless you

and my corp posts are not secure...ie sr execs are taking early retirements under duress now...

in this ruthless casino capitalism that obama is spewing, NO job and NO person is truly secure...that is why i work 4

2010 will be hellish!:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/10-industries-that-will-l_n_392146.html

happy 2009 holidays...

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]And Constructive Feedback, what have those black conservatives done for black folk lately?[/quote]

WhiteBowieSteve:

It is ONLY the ability for the "Black Establishment" and you to frame the issue that affords them the ability to have their constituents look past their failed strategy and see more resources that were generated OUTSIDE of their own economic domain and rained into their communities as PROGRESS.

If you were intellectually honest, Steve - you would evaluate this $4 billion from the federal treasury with the fact that in Detroit MI alone there was hundreds of millions of dollars in lost equity among Black home owners as now the average sales price for homes there has fallen to $7,500.

Steve - how many Black who originally paid $135,000 for their home got soaked as their eco-system collapsed? This is the district of John Conyers and Kilpatrick from the CBC.
In Clayton County GA - the district of David Scott - a tax review in the paper last week showed that Democratic controlled Clayton county suffered the worst drop in property values in the area.

Worse yet - the same people who cry about "discriminatory school funding" are the same people who are DEMANDING that the county lower their tax bills in accordance with the new home values.

This act alone is going to rip text books and computers out of the hands of Black children.

Steve if there were ever a time for you and other Progressive-Fundamentalists to state: "People over Profits" it would be to the TAX PAYERS in various districts represented by CBC members, telling them that their SAVINGS in tax payments does more damage than 2 hours of study time taken away because the student chooses to listen to "Young Jeezy" threatening to kill a Black man as he is dealing drugs within the community.


Why do you want me to be proud that the Congressional Black Democrat Caucus has rained money into the Black community?

The banks that you attacked for taking money are paying their government money BACK!! Do you think the CBDC is looking for the people to pay this money back to the government?

What YOU NEED TO BE FOCUSED UPON is why after they've taken control over these areas they remain with anemic economies?

Filled Negro told me that we are in an IDEOLOGICAL battle not a partisan one. I AGREE. This is why there is a need to put PROGRESSIVISM ON TRIAL and have it prove its merits WHEN IT IS ALL ALONE AS THE PREVAILING ORDER!!!

Take away something for it to CHASE AFTER and it fails miserably.

uptownsteve said...

CF

I'm going to ask you some straight questions and I would appreciate some straight answers.

In the 45 years since the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts do you believe the black community is worse off then they were before?

If yes, how do you explain the almost diamteric reverse in percentages of black poverty and illiteracy since that time?

Is it not a fact that in those 45 years the number of black college grads, professionals, and homeowners have tripled?

Weren't all the icons of modern conservatism, namely Goldwater, Reagan and Buckley, all opponents of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Adam said...

Alicia,

Every Blessing To You this Holiday Season. And thank you for your words.

I hope that I am not misunderstood - I am deeply thankful for what I have. And I know there are people who are truly in dire straits (economically).

I trust and hope that the New Year finds you able to draw a decent living and enjoy satisfying relationships with others.

Yours,

Adam

alicia banks said...

adam:

i understand you completely...

i appreciate your empathy and share your anxiety too!

best wishes to you and yours in all you do

we are all blessed to have any options and any blessings at all...increasingly so daily.

respect and empathy,
ab

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]In the 45 years since the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts do you believe the black community is worse off then they were before?[/quote]

I bet that you'd be satisfied with a "Yes or No" answer and THIS is your problem!!! You depend on the BIAS and BIGOTRY of the responder and thus those who think like you are going to make a glowing report. You are more interested in Negroes who AGREE WITH YOU even if they can't back up their statements.

Thus LET US FRAME THE QUESTION.

* SAFE STREETS - Since 1964 does the Black man feel safe in his own home?

ANSWER: The THREAT has merely change. No longer is the Klan throwing firebombs through his front window. Today Street Pirates are doing home invasions. (Check the front page of the AJC today)

* Quality Education - Are our young people BEING EDUCATED so that they will step in and assume the professional service jobs that our communities need?

ANSWER: Very, very imbalanced. While indeed we have more H.S. and college graduates than ever - there remains a "permanent underclass". The Black male graduation rate in the 50's percentile is UNACCEPTABLE. The fact that more "favorable people" run the educational establishment today makes this totally unacceptable.

* Thriving Local Economies Are our communities places where economic activity is creating jobs for those who need to employ their skills in exchange for salary in abundant numbers?

ANSWER: FAILURE!!!
There is not enough organic economic activity to maintain the desired standard of living and build up a sufficient local tax base from which other "social justice" elements can be funded.

We have too many "unemployed minds"
who's potential value is squandered. (Steve wants a damned PAT ON THE BACK!!!!)

* Healthy Lifestyles - Are the messages from the Black Establishment authorities (preachers, politicians, activists) providing adequate guidance to our people so that they might live long, healthy, disease free lives?

ANSWER: NO!!!!
Far too often the messages are out of alignment with the NEED. The prevailing ideology seeks to shift the burden of responsibility off of the individual and upon the SOCIETY via GOVERNMENT.

[quote]
If yes, how do you explain the almost diamteric reverse in percentages of black poverty and illiteracy since that time?
[/quote]

You are so frustrating Steve.
Here is a question for you:
ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THIS PRESENT STATE? DO YOU FEEL THAT THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF BLACK PEOPLE WHO WISH TO NOT BE POOR OR WHO WOULD BENEFIT FROM EDUCATION HAVE IT?

You want someone to smell your behind and lie to you, telling you that it smells good.

Why can't you put your evaluation of the present not on WHERE YOU USED TO BE UNDER OPPRESSION but..........what you NEED TO BE @ IN REGARDS TO SUPPORTING THE STANDARD OF LIVING THAT YOU SEEK?

[quote]
Is it not a fact that in those 45 years the number of black college grads, professionals, and homeowners have tripled?
[/quote]

GREAT STEVE!!!!!
Why would I attack an INCREASE in Black college graduation rates?
I WANT MORE!!!!

Did you see my argument/rebuttal about Filled Negro's complain about the employment rates of Black degreed people (7.8%) vs White males (4.4%)?

He failed to look at Black males with H.S. diplomas 16.8% and those w/o H.S. diplomas 30%.

My analysis said WE NEED EVEN MORE BLACK MALE COLLEGE GRADUATES!!!!!

You are one of the biggest "Portrait On The Wall WORSHIPERS" that I know. Resting on your laurels while failing to see the pathway YET to be cleared - as well as the cliff that waits beyond the brush.

http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/12/strategic-consequences-of-racism.html

Weren't all the icons of modern conservatism, namely Goldwater, Reagan and Buckley, all opponents of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

alicia banks said...

fn:

uts erroneously thinks that black gains erase black gaps

they never have
and they never will

like malcolm said:

"You can't drive a knife into a man's back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."


these may help you rsvp:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/06/10/shapiro.wealth/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/nyregion/13unemployment.html

http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/14334.html

http://livinglifelaidoff.com/2009/08/05/more-black-college-grads-are-living-life-laid-off/

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-98672676.html

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/eviction_in_new_york_city_disproportionately_affects_poor_black_and_elderly/

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1931892620070320

http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-1559-apartment-renters-caught-in-foreclosure-net.html

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/04/news/economy/black_unemployment/index.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/28/nyregion/nearly-half-of-black-men-found-jobless.html

http://www.theloop21.com/news/payday-loan-sharks-still-feasting-the-black-community

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=200912021358dowjonesdjonline000596&title=nine-million-us-households-have-no-bank-accounts

ETC!!!...

uptownsteve said...

You are so full of $hit if you took a dump you'd be transparent.

"ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THIS PRESENT STATE? DO YOU FEEL THAT THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF BLACK PEOPLE WHO WISH TO NOT BE POOR OR WHO WOULD BENEFIT FROM EDUCATION HAVE IT?"

Definitely not but we as a people are inifintely better off than we were in 1964.

And of the people you suck up to had there way we'd still be official second class citizens with no rights any white person were bound to respect.

Now, I'll ask for the hundredth time.

What are your ideas for economic development in the inner city?

What are your suggestions for reducing street crime in the inner city?

alicia banks said...

ps:


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2008/03/race_poverty_and_the_inner_cit_1.html

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/boyfriend_pressure_makes_black_teen_girls_more_likely_to_want_pregnancy

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/baw_commentary_news/5471

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/10

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n771.a03.html

ETC!!!...

alicia banks said...

cf:

uts and his elitist peers are content/elated about their own lives...that suffices

they could not care less about anyone who is not a peer

the day they spend as much time helping others as they spend resting on their own laurels/gloating SOLELY about gains and IGNORING losses/gaps...

that is the day the revolution will come...

until then,
they are content to revolve around their own green lawns in their gated communities

never fret...obama will fix that asap

alicia banks said...

ps:

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/133067/black-white_wealth_gap_continues_to_widen_in_u.s./

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/82294/the_poor_and_the_middle_class:_income_soul-mates_left_in_the_dust/

http://www.racewire.org/archives/2009/02/report_racial_income_gap_chron.html

ETC!!!...

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]And of the people you suck up to had there way we'd still be official second class citizens with no rights any white person were bound to respect.

WhiteBowieSteve:

Do you think that this bothers me? Seriously do you?

You need this "Conservative Boogie Man" go build up and tear down.

The notion of what THEY WOULD DO if they had the chance is more important to you than WHAT IS HAPPENING TO-DAMNED-DAY where your favored people are in power over Black folks!!!!

You are concerned with WHITE FOLKS seeing you as a "Second Class Citizen" yet as various Black Progressive leaders spoke upon the death of Ted Kennedy you were not bothered by the incessant references to Black people as "THE LEAST OF THESE"

"Second Class citizenship" of you by White Conservatives is more of a threat than when these operatives assume you as an INFERIOR as a bargaining chip for their agenda.

Where today can we find more CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS that go ultimately unchecked than in the BLACK COMMUNITY?

The Black man shot 31 times and the Black woman shot 17 times in Atlanta (2 different incidents) STILL have their killers on the loose. THERE ARE NO PROTESTS.

[QUOTE]
What are your ideas for economic development in the inner city?
[/quote]

ANSWER:
1) Enter into the venture with ONE KEY THOUGHT as a fundamental thought: ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE EQUAL. All ADULTS need to bear EQUAL EXPECTATIONS upon their backs. (If you can't accept this then stop reading the other items)
2) Document the STANDARD OF LIVING that is desirable amongst the masses
3) Define the specific tasks YOU NEED all of the participants who seek to eat the fruit off of this LOCAL tree to do on a repetitive basis
4) Make use of various media to GET THIS MESSAGE OUT. Remind the people about the benefits of what you are working toward and THE PART THAT THEY NEED TO PLAY!! (Remove all of the "Voices of Street Piracy" OFF OF THE STAGE!!!!! They tell how to kill Black people, sell drugs and screw our women as if they were whores. They need to be PUT OUT like an alley cat)

5)Develop a TRANSPARENT system to evaluate the forward progress of the plan and present the results for all to see.

6) Get rid of ideas that have FAILED to move you forward as had been anticipated. Keep items that have been proven EFFECTIVE. Allow for an OPEN AND HONEST system by which these items can be reported. Place EFFECTIVE RESULTS over POPULARITY and IDEOLOGICAL PREFERENCES.

7) Remove the "Dual Citizens) from their access to your "racial nucleus". Those who are operatives for outside interests - can be allowed to do so BUT THEY CANNOT BE ALLOWED UNCHECKED ACCESS TO YOUR CORE. Push them out to the periphery and force them to wear a "visitors badge" as they talk to your people and attempt to sell them on the greatness of this EXTERNAL entity. When they are finished with their presentation - escort them out of the door and then allow the people to appraise the value of the 'sales presentation'.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]
What are your suggestions for reducing street crime in the inner city?
[/quote]

1) Make Street Piracy out to be an OFFENSE against the sacred values of the community NOT - the consequence of WHITE FOLKS having done you wrong and wanting to see your people locked up.

2) Make the Street Pirate see the people who he has VICTIMIZED instead of MAKING HIM A VICTIM of the system. These other people are struggling (and/or a descendant of slavery) just as the Pirate is.

3) Tell the Street Pirate that he is an OFFENSE to all that our ancestors struggled for

4) (Especially for YOU Steve:) Take the same use of "shaming" that you ATTEMPT TO USE on me and other "Black Conservatives" and instead SHAME THE STREET PIRATES!!!!! Focus on the offense of external entities using THEM to draw Black people to the polls instead of worrying about BLACK CONSERVATIVES appearing on Fox News. THE STREET PIRATES are doing far more damage to us.

http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/12/blax-news-which-of-these-pictures-have.html

5) Go after the Black Media for being more concerned about the "threat" from Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh than they express concern about the STREET PIRATES that have so many "Black People Crying on The Television News".


(I assure you folks - These long list of suggestions just went into Steve's eyeballs and then fell out of one of the other holes in his head. He will be asking me the same thing next month.)

Greg L said...

CF,

Damn man. You took the words and thought right out of my mouth/mind.

We need to tell these street pirates HELL NO, YOU GOTTA GO.

No one says no to them or to the do nothing politicos who sit on the throne. This is why they both run amok. There has got to be some accountability.

We have to condemn them. We have to raise our voices.

alicia banks said...

ditto cf & gl!

geronimo pratt/ji jaga went to prison in cali as a BPP victim of cointelpro...due to being a superstar ex-vet who taught real men in the hood to be protectors and warriors

decades later when he was released from prison in cali
he was so disgusted by how the young thugs had taken over the hood from real men that he fled
far south in disgust...to retire
and aid less rabid street pirates

shame!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgcZvnw4LdU

alicia banks said...

more on geronimo

http://www.internationalist.org/geronimo.html

M. Rigmaiden said...

FN: I think you have listened to the wrong economists when you invoked justification for the bailouts. The Keneysian economists believe that bullshit, but I never did. And the chickens are coming home to roost. A report showed that not all of the bailout money was accounted for, that some companies took the money and beefed up the LEGAL departments and then did what? SUED AMERICAN consumers at the height of our DEPRESSION.

There was never ever ever ever any justification for taking tax payer dollars and giving it to banks. Banks have an increasingly adverserial relationship with consumers, espcially via fee income increases over the past few years.

The truth is that President Obama and McCain are both douchebags who were helping out their friends when they voted for the bailouts.

There has NEVER EVER EVER been a viable economic system where the rich so blatantly steal from the poor without some Revolution; whether the French or American Revolutions.

Any reasonable person with a brain can see that.

But here is proof in the pudding; the US government excused Citibank of its tax liabilities for the year and other bailed out institutions. This means that these big banks will not have to pay taxes on the order of billions of dollars. I thought out country was broke, why is it that WE have to pay the IRS but they don't?

Get a grip people; our President and his Wallstreet buddies are criminals. And the same was true about GW Bush!

M. Rigmaiden said...

Here is the story and link to the Citibank tax bailout...

U.S. forgoes billions in tax on Citi: report
14 hours ago


NEW YORK — The U.S. government "quietly" agreed not to collect billions of dollars in potential taxes from Citigroup Inc as part of its deal to allow the bank to repay its taxpayer bailout, The Washington Post reported.

The Internal Revenue Service issued a notice on Friday that extends the benefit to Citi and other companies in which the government owns a stake, the Post reported.

A Citigroup spokesman declined to comment.

The Washington Post said the precise value of the IRS ruling depends on Citigroup's future profitability and other factors, but the newspaper cited two accounting experts as estimating Citi would save at least several billion dollars.

At the end of the third quarter, Citi said its past losses were valued at about $38 billion, allowing it to avoid taxes on its next $38 billion in profits, but under normal IRS rules, a change in control would have sharply reduced the amount the company could shelter from taxes, the newspaper said.

Under a deal announced Monday, Citi will sell $17 billion of common stock and about $3.5 billion of securities that turn into common shares in three years, helping the bank repay the bailout. The government will also stop guaranteeing a pool of toxic assets against excessive losses, and will sell the nearly $30 billion in shares it owns.

(Reporting by Steve Eder; Editing by Gary Hill)

© 2009 Thomson Reuters. All rights reserved. Reuters content is the intellectual property of Thomson Reuters

RiPPa said...

"Why do you attempt to "Americanize" that which YOU PROMISED would be fixed if BLACK FOLKS and the WORKING CLASS voted as you saw fit?"

@CF:In essence isn't this the very same thing you preach on this and a host of other blogs on the internet? Isn't it YOU position that the black community would be better off if their permanent interests politically would shift towards conservatism?

uptownsteve said...

"We need to tell these street pirates HELL NO, YOU GOTTA GO."

This is nothing but empty rhetoric.

All black righties are good for.

So you yell at the street pirates and then what?

Grin at white folks and say...

"Did I do good massa?"

Greg L said...

>>>>Get a grip people; our President and his Wallstreet buddies are criminals. And the same was true about GW Bush!<<<<<

Hello, there it is.

There is one thing that's going to occur out of this with respect to Wall Street and the banking sector. There will be a massive consolidation occurring with JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs being the only one's left standing. The Fed's zero rate interest policy is setting up a massive dollar carry trade where Goldman and Morgan have earned massive profits. They will use these profits to acquire the banks that will be failing when the shit hits the fan with the wave of foreclosures coming from payment option ARM resets and the $ 700 billion of defaults on the commericial mortgages that are upcoming. Basically, taxpayer money and fed policy are being used to allow the favored institutions to consolidate their economic power. This was all set up by a entire combination of things even prior (repeal of Glass-Steagall, lack of regulation and etc.)

This is an absolute outrage, yet they've got most folks diverted on bullshit infotainment and the like. It's criminal on top of the criminality that got us here in the first place.

They're no longer bothering with the pretext of fairness and the people will pay dearly when they devalue the dollar. We'll be left with a dying economic shell, while these guys will have absconded with the money.

I will say this however, it really wouldn't have mattered who was president. We would still be where we are right now. Obama is just a caretaker, nothing more.

uptownsteve said...

greg l

"We have to condemn them. We have to raise our voices."

Nobody has spoken out about street crime?

Nobody has marched in "Stop the Violence" vigils?

There haven't been THOUSANDS of requests for increased police presence in ghetto communities?

I myself participated neighborhood watches and patrols when I lived in DC.

Have any of you?

You rightwing negroes are such phonies.

You just don't want to hear any protests about white racism.

Every conversation about racism gets diverted back to a rant about street crime.

Greg L said...

This is nothing but empty rhetoric.

All black righties are good for.

So you yell at the street pirates and then what?

Grin at white folks and say...

"Did I do good massa


Actually, this has absolutely nothing to do with white folks or pleasing them. I could give a tinkers damn about what they think.

As far as being a "rightie", that ain't the ticket either. There's nothing right or left about noting a problem.

The problem I have with the existing situation of laying everything at the feet of white folks is that it makes any forward movement we can make contingent on them "doing something", changing their thinking, not being racist and etc. That's giving them way more power than I'm willing to concede.

I tell you what I believe. I believe we are equal in every respect as intellectual beings and ability. I also believe that redress of past wrongs means one has to have the power to seek it. You don't get power by constantly being in the position of begging someone else to resolve your issues or begging massa to stop oppressing you.

Those who want freedom take it. They don't beg, whine and constantly play the victim.

Ernesto said...

The problem can be summed up in two words: Rahm Emmanuel.

The guy who brought us NAFTA and is currently making sure the Democratic majority in Congress is squandered by helping working people as little as possible. The sooner Obama wises up and shitcans this Wall Street water carrier the better for all of us.

uptownsteve said...

He says he's not a righty then he turns right around barfs the standard righty spew.

"You don't get power by constantly being in the position of begging someone else to resolve your issues or begging massa to stop oppressing you.

"Those who want freedom take it. They don't beg, whine and constantly play the victim."

Negro, if you can show me where I begged anyone for anything and claimed victimhood, I'll leave this board for good.

You clowns are good for nothing but regurgitating the same simplistic, cue card bull$hit you hear on Fox in blackface.

I live in a 95% black neighborhood which has strong nuclear families, successful professionals and safe streets so don't direct your cheap lectures at me because we've played by the rules and won.

If there are problems in your family and neighborhood then get the fuck off the internet and go deal with them.

alicia banks said...

ditto gl!

preach!

in the 70s the BPP/real kings took control of drug dealers and gave them boundaries etc...in the 80s even my regal hero huey newton became an addict and was slain by a young thug in an alley as an addict

THIS is what happens when street pirates rule and it does not faze elitists like uts because there are no alleys in their gated enclaves

we need our own posses of real men/guardian angels/hood police like the black muslims/ex cons who
do not fear these young thugs

even OGs inside prisons are volunteering for solitary confinement to evade the same young thugs who torture teachers and terrorize our streets each day!

see more on oakland ca drug dealer felix mitchell and huey's BPP peak etc:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Gangster-Complete-Second-Season/dp/B0014FAIV6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260989299&sr=1-1

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/26/us/arrest-in-murder-of-huey-newton.html

http://www.africawithin.com/bios/huey_newton.htm

and see more on elder inmates' fear of new breed cons:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a904379354&db=all

alicia banks said...

ernesto:

obama is rahm's superior!

stop blaming anyone you can for what obama does!

uptownsteve said...

AB

I've got news for you.

Ghettoes came into existence long before the 70s.

As a matter of fact there was more street crime and homicides during the 70s than there is today.

Of course you wouldn't know that because you don't know $hit about the 'hood.

And I bet Greg doesn't either.

You negroes just yap.

alicia banks said...

uts:

???????

i made no ref to the origin of the ghetto

i was speaking about the BPP

again

you major in the minor

and prove that you are a rabid fool as always

old stats will solve no new ills no matter how much you curiously adore them

alicia banks said...

uts:

does incessantly lying about my decades in the hood make you feel less guilty about the decades you have evaded it???

Greg L said...

>>>>>Negro, if you can show me where I begged anyone for anything and claimed victimhood, I'll leave this board for good.

You clowns are good for nothing but regurgitating the same simplistic, cue card bull$hit you hear on Fox in blackface.

I live in a 95% black neighborhood which has strong nuclear families, successful professionals and safe streets so don't direct your cheap lectures at me because we've played by the rules and won.

If there are problems in your family and neighborhood then get the fuck off the internet and go deal with them.<<<<<<

Although I didn't ask you about it, I'm glad to hear everything is fine on the home front for you and yours and the last time I checked, the neighborhood and family was fine on my end. Thanks for asking but, don't run let's continue to engage.

Perhaps I didn't give you a fair hearing to understand your position. What exactly is your position on crime in the African-American community and what should we do to address it? How much of it is accounted for by white racism vs. stuff we control?

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Isn't it YOU position that the black community would be better off if their permanent interests politically would shift towards conservatism?[/quote]

RiPPa - I like you better than the friends that you keep so I am going to more fully articulate my views for you.

Here is my architecture.

WE ALL NEED TO AGREE ON THE FOUNDATION: Our Permanent Interests:

* Safe Streets
* Quality Education
* Thriving Local Economies
* Healthy Lifestyles

Built on top of this is the next layer: THE METHODOLOGY by which these Permanent Interests are to be accomplished.

This is were "Progressive Methodology" and "Conservative Methodology' reside.

On top of this is the 'VEHICLE' by which the METHODOLOGIES are propelled.

There are Political Parties that are vehicles. There are certain social and cultural vehicles by which you can hitch onto.

RiPPa: It is irrelevant for me or anyone else to say "Black people need to become more conservative/progressive in order to improve". This means nothing.

My argument is ONLY that "Conservativism" is actually CONSERVATOR-SHIP!!!!!!


After you have control over a given domain after years and years of struggle of developing SYSTEMS of education, socialization, economic production and law & order - YOU HAD BETTER CONSERVE that which you have fought long and hard to build up OR all that you have built up will be destroyed by "Permanent Revolutionaries" that come along after you with their own ideas.

When YOU ARE THE ESTABLISHMENT your job is to run the institutions within and educate and inculcate the next generation about their place in the system and insure that they take the ball and run with it.

Now, RiPPa, after having more clearly articulated my position on "Conservator-ship" do YOU agree that the establishment that now runs our communities have an obligation to train up their replacements and maintain stable systems?

I would be the FIRST PERSON TO AGREE that "White Conservatism" as it relates to RACIAL matters are not the same as "Black Conservatism". However, just like I have NEVER seen a Black leader go onto "Democracy Now' and have a foundational disagreement with the White Liberals when it comes to the "American Political Domain" it is also true that there are a number of things that Black Conservatives are going to agree with White Conservatives on.

PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE upon Steve: IF the current "White Conservatives" want to Lynch Black people and thus you ask "How can a Black man in good standing sit with them".......I need to ask YOU - How is it that you can lump your own racial development upon a group of White Snarling Foxes who's goal is to keep you fed and VOTING while never insuring that you develop the COMPETENCY by which the institutions that you now control are properly managed - developing and employing your people according to your needs?

......and yet you STILL are "getting lynched" except its by YOUR OWN PEOPLE who have been conditioned within the eco-system which makes their group POWERFUL???

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] by helping working people as little as possible.[/quote]

Ernesto:

Why is it that you now have to look toward the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for "help" for the working people - looking past the LOCAL institutions that they have spent years building up in their own liking? The claim was "once we get people into power who CARE ABOUT THE INTERESTS OF WORKING PEOPLE........things will be better". Now you have to look past them and talk to the feds?

Why don't you make note of the enhanced capabilities that these people now have after years of "struggling" for it?

uptownsteve said...

Well Greggy,

This is one black man who does not equate "black" with "crime".

Most black people are employed, hard working citizens who do not live in ghettoes.

The inner city underclass which people like you love to have represent the entire black community is a dysfunctional, self-perpetuating subgroup (which also contains a lot of hispanics as well) that is in need of a Marshall Plan to transform.

Black people do pay taxes you agree?

The US Government financed white flight out of the inner city.

It's also tabling a "New Homestead Act" to revitalize the dying plain states.

Nothing less than quality education, economic development and job opportunities is going to change conditions and behavior in the 'hood.

'Just Do it' speeches don't mean jack.

"the last time I checked, the neighborhood and family was fine on my end."

There was no doubt about that in my mind.

Negroes like you are always yapping about what "we" don't do but you know that you are just referring to all those "other" negroes.

The ones you wouldn't go around at gunpoint.

Greg L said...

>>>As a matter of fact there was more street crime and homicides during the 70s than there is today.<<<

Would you mind backing this assertion up with some facts? I'd be curious as to what you're basing this on. Of course, anecdotes don't constitute empirical evidence backed by statistics.

alicia banks said...

uts:

like the ghetto origin bs, no one said anything about all blacks being criminals except YOU!

clearly, you did so as it is all you have to say

we see your CONSTANT and deliberate tangents as futile acts of desperation in this debate as always

it becomes more glaring with each of your mindless posts

uptownsteve said...

Greg L.

The proof is right here

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

AB go tutor somebody by phone.

The adults are talking.

alicia banks said...

useless tangential snake:

adults do not invent new arguments in lieu of pointed debate

&

adults tend to have clarity of vision

&

adults have large brains

thus,
you do not qualify as an "adult"...x3

fyi

alicia banks said...

mr:

ditto!

obama's most evil sins hidden within his bailouts have yet to be fully revealed

ie
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/15/AR2009121504534.html

MUCH more bilking of the poor for decades to come will soon be exposed

shame!!!

Greg L said...

>>>Well Greggy,<<<

LOL. I've not been called "Greggy" for quite some time.

>>>This is one black man who does not equate "black" with "crime".

Most black people are employed, hard working citizens who do not live in ghettoes.<<<<<<

Actually, I agree with this. The majority of black folks are law abiding hard working folks. No one said that "black" necessarily equates with crime.

>>>The inner city underclass which people like you love to have represent the entire black community is a dysfunctional, self-perpetuating subgroup (which also contains a lot of hispanics as well) that is in need of a Marshall Plan to transform.<<<<

No. I never said that the inner city underclass is representative of the entirety of black folks or the African-American experience. I agree on the issue of dysfunction and I disagree on the idea of a Marshall Plan, not necessarily the concept of it, but the reality that we're not going to get such a thing by asking for it. As far as white folks are concerned, they gave us our "reparations" with Johnson's guns and butter regime of the 60's. So the issue is whether we put resources towards fighting for a Marshall Plan or putting efforts towards doing what we can for ourselves. Given that resources are limited, I'm for the latter.

Let's say that you go out and raise hell for a Marshall Plan and the answer is no...does that mean that we can't move forward because we gave someone else the power to deny us? We need our own Marshall Plan that we execute and, if necessary, fund the damn thing ourselves.

I believe that if black folks were to ever successfully mount an initiative to address some of the dysfunction in the community on our own, money wouldn't be a problem because the politicos would be coming out of the damn woodwork trying to jump on the bandwagon to take credit or control the direction of where the thing goes. The fact is that doing this ourselves is the route to power and with power you can demand redress; not beg for it, but demand it and get it. So even if our ultimate objective was a Marshall Plan, it us that has to start it on our own. Where we differ is the starting point. You'd like to start off asking them for a Marshall Plan. I'd rather start off by executing on my own Marshall Plan.

Look, I'm equal. We're equal. Genius and ability is not the sole province of other people. For us to believe we're incapable of doing what we need to do is to accept the bullshit about being inferior. I'm not saying that you're saying that so much as to say I ain't buying that.

Greg L said...

>>>>Greg L.

The proof is right here

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm>>>>>

Steve, my man, now you know I know how to read a table don't you? Why are you going to slap up a link in here that doesn't prove shit?

The table shows increases in crimes across most categories. Moreover, it covers overall US crimes not the subject of your assertion which was crimes declining from the 70's till now in the ghetto. You'd need a different table to establish that.

Am I safe now in dismissing your earlier contention as your dataless opinion?

alicia banks said...

fn:

great british article on american blacks who are fed up with obama


http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-12-15/has-obama-abandoned-blacks/full/

uptownsteve said...

"As far as white folks are concerned, they gave us our "reparations" with Johnson's guns and butter regime of the 60's."

This is absolutely insane.

Name one "Great Society" program that was for blacks only?

The appalacian whites, chicanos and native Americans didn't get AFDC and food stamps?

And the most effective Great Society programs like enterprise zones and community economic development was derailed by the Vietnam War.

What we got was Affirmative Action which affective little more than 10% of the black workforce.

"putting efforts towards doing what we can for ourselves."

Prior to the recession black businesses were being created and growing at a faster pace than any other ethnic group.

There are more black college grads and homeowners than any other time in American History.

It pisses me off when I hear people like you claiming blacks won't do for themselves.

WE'RE DOING IT. I SEE IT EVERYDAY.

I've watched in the last 20 years Prince Georges County, MD change from a redneck backwater region to the largest concentration of black middle class professionals in the world.

The median household income in PG ROSE SIGNIFICANTLY when the demogrpahics changed from majority black to majority white.

I wanna hear from you specifically how we transform the inner city ghetto.

"I'd rather start off by executing on my own Marshall Plan."

How? Let's hear it.

Cuz' quite frankly I think you're blowing smoke.

Sounds great.

Let's hear a plan.

uptownsteve said...

Greg,

"Am I safe now in dismissing your earlier contention as your dataless opinion?"

Don't try to play games with me.

Were there more homicides in 1977 than there were in 2007?

Yes or No?

uptownsteve said...

"it covers overall US crimes not the subject of your assertion which was crimes declining from the 70's till now in the ghetto."

Wouldn't it be a safe bet that most violent crime whether it's 1970 or 200o would be in the ghetto?

alicia banks said...

uts:

you callous contented elites better beware...

the rapidly elongating unemployment lines are forming outside your coveted gates...

“My best guess is that the current black polling numbers for Obama are somewhat unusual in Georgia because black professionals and the black middle class here have had to get in the unemployment line alongside younger workers who've only recently moved to the city and state; and many of them, too, have seen their houses foreclosed on,” Towery wrote in a recent column. He added: “Will government’s apparent inability to effect the promised positive 'change' begin to fan discontent in other black communities across the nation? Or will this encroaching uneasiness with Obama stay limited to this one snapshot in time in this one Southern state? We can't yet know, but the early signs are there.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-12-15/has-obama-abandoned-blacks/full/

alicia banks said...

li:

on anxiety

see jill nelson

http://www.niaonline.com/ggmsblog/?p=4125

M. Rigmaiden said...

It bothers me so much that we are focusing on tangential issues such as what Obama has done or has not done for Black people. Wake up guys! This ain't about Black or white; it is about HUMAN RIGHTS.

You cannot have human rights under an oligarchy. AT some point the shit will hit the fan and as Greg L. pointed out, this is a headfake. The right and left paradigms are mere distractions from the evil that these jerks are perpetuating on the Earth.

FN you may mention that not only do bailed out banks not have any tax liabilities for this year, but that the Oil rich nations have began their OWN currency which will further displace the dollar.

I have no problem with other countries getting their riches on, but the model that they use to get rich is antiquated and straight up obscene!

I am pro markets provided that those in the marketplace act fairly and don't misrepresent their products. Our President has misrepresented himself during his campaigns and has perpetuated the warmongering policies of his predecessor, in addition to ACTIVELY pushing for more bailouts.

He is a liar and a cheat and so are GW BUSH, Clinton and so forth. They assisted in selling the soul of this nation to the interests of private bankers who don't give a damn about us!

alicia banks said...

mr:

ditto

i hate obama for being gwb 2.0

i loathe him even more for pimping black voters most and betraying poor black people most

i loathe him for the abuse i have endured from racist black people who blindly and suicidally adore obama

i loathe him for the demise of tavis smiley etc

but obama/gwb and all ruling elites care for no people of any race who are not rich

Ronni said...

we have come to the end of the road with regards to the monetary system. we are not getting that money back as tax payers because those "trillions" of dollars don't exist! let's stop pretending that job creation is the answer when the bosses don't have to pay a living wage, or provide health insurance. please visit www.thevenusproject.com and join the zeitgeist movement!!!

Constructive Feedback said...

What would the Internet be without UptownSteve?


Steve: Since you are so fond of asking questions of others I have a comprehensive question for you.

Q: Assuming that you do believe in this "Marshall Plan" as the key fix for Black folks please define the dimensions of the program.

After the program has been fully exhausted what "debt" will have been paid and thus what will the American Establishment no longer have to react to because of "past grievances"?

What type of organization overlay would you suggest so that these resources and services are appropriately distributed to the people in need?

Final question: With the USA having a $12,000 billion debt and it streaming quickly to $20,000 billion in the next 10 years - do you REALLY think that the forces in the federal government are going to "break anything off" to one racial group, especially when the debt is going to cause them to start shedding engine parts over time?

So I guess my final question should actually be: "What is your backup plan to the Urban Marshall Plan?

c.c.-kathy said...

For a minute there, I thought I had hit the wrong button and ended up on some other blog:)

The banks paying back their bailout money is at a profit to taxpayers, the bailout cost 1, to the payback at 3, I think that is the ratio. Also, the banks not having to pay taxes on their losses, (i keep reading that everywhere) is so ridiculous that I can't even think of a work to describe the silliness of that thought:), you don;t pay taxes on losses.

The Obama administration is working on getting people back to work, I know it does seem terrible, and I read a comment upthread that really resonated with me, I have had a good job, good benefits, ect, for over 20 years, and I have no money left either.

But I am very confident that the banks and economy are stablized, and that jobs will be next. I think President Obama has done an outstanding job with the crisis that he took on.

Greg L said...

AB,

Thanks for that link.

Steve,

I think you may have been a boxer at one point as you're doing more damn bobbing and weaving up in here than Muhammad Ali. You're a master of obfuscation and no, I'm not going to let you get away with it.

First, may I remind you of your assertion:

"As a matter of fact there was more street crime and homicides during the 70s than there is today"

This sounded as if it might not be supported by empirical evidence and I politely requested that if you wouldn't mind supporting that with the backup data.

You responded by linking a table that shows overall US crime rates rather than those related to African Americans over the period in question and then you say:

"Were there more homicides in 1977 than there were in 2007?...Wouldn't it be a safe bet that most violent crime whether it's 1970 or 200o would be in the ghetto?"

Wait, aren't you the one accusing me of denigrating black folks, yet you want me to assume that they committed the bulk of the crimes on a table that fails to prove your point?

You're the one who made the assertion, now either back it up or withdraw it. To back it up, you'll need to link the table that shows the trends in crime committed by African-Americans.

As to the Marshall Plan, it was YOU, not I who introduced the concept of a Marshall Plan. I merely responded to who is responsible for developing the plan while you insist on begging someone else to give you a plan. Yet you get all in a huff and demand that I give you a plan. Well Stevie, creation of a Marshall Plan, let alone implementation thereon is a huge undertaking but much of it is contingent on getting some control back in the community, which means that crime and criminality have to be brought under control as the primary thing first. Nothing can happen from an economic development standpoint until that happens. So I think a Marshall Plan has to start with direct sustained action against the miscreant element in the community, mainly in three ways:

1) Organize the community to revolt against the knuckleheads. In Newark NJ, the mayor has implemented a novel approach where they've organized civilian caravans that go out on patrol. It's too early to say how effective this will be, but it's something that would potentially galvanize citizens in the fight against crime in their communities. This is something that needs to be repeated nationwide.

2) Re-educate the guys in prison, reform school and detention while they are a captive audience. I mean truly re-educate them in how they've destroyed not only themselves but the community at large. I think a thorough indoctrination, if you will, in African-American history, their unwitting role in the prison industrial complex economic system would be good starting points, but the goal would be to have them come out politically aware with employable skills. In other words, change the prison from a breeding gound for criminal training to something that would produce productive people who could contribute.


3) Deploy (2) in the schools. The folks engaged in (1) above are the troops to get this done as there will need to be influence over school budgets and activities. Where the schools can't accomodate, we'll need churches and other institutions to step up with afterschool programs to do the same thing. We need to re-educate the kids.


Some variation of the above has to be done before anything else. If we talking about a Marshall Plan to just come in and drop money without some control over crime, all that's going to occur is waste.

Bob said...

I'm a fan of Mrs. Field.

Greg L said...

"He is a liar and a cheat and so are GW BUSH, Clinton and so forth. They assisted in selling the soul of this nation to the interests of private bankers who don't give a damn about us!"

Precisely.

M. Rigmaiden said...

Kathy you are misinformed. Tell me why the banks have no tax liabilities? If our nation is broke, couldn't the IRS use BILLIONS of corporate tax dollars? You irrational support for our President makes no sense whatsoever. Or are you a public relations agent in disguise?

Don't shit on my leg and tell me that it's raining. Bernake said that he couldn't even account for how TARP funds were spent a report showed that the banks used a percentage of the bailout money to LITIGATE that is SUE AMERICAN consumers who are saddled with debt, unemployed, disabled etc.

And you are telling me this is a boon to the American people? You have accepted the lies and bullshit and don't stand to benefit in any way from it, unless you are with them.

AB, I didn't vote for Obama or McCain because the are both assholes who lie, cheat and steal from us to satisfy their soulless affiliations with the elite.

The zeitgeist commenter above is also correct. Our monetary system is broken and has been since 1914 or so. The Founding Fathers felt that monetary policy should be in the hands of the PEOPLE.

The fed is an illegal private organization that should be brought down. The fact that our President does everything he can to placate the wishes of the FED shows me that he is off some bullshit and doesn't give a damn about humans.

Then again, his support of allowing babies born to botched abortions to die should have been an indicator that he does not support HUMAN LIFE.

alicia banks said...

k:

i have no idea where you are getting your amazing and rosy info re: obama's legendary robberies/bailouts

but i do know that many who adore obama will perish with their rose colored glasses still glued to their deluded and betrayed visages...

M. Rigmaiden said...

If any of you guys think I am lying about the bank lawsuits, I invite you to peruse the Alameda County Superior Court website. You can look under dates to see cases and their DOCUMENTS ONLINE in TIFF format or using a JAVA plugin. Look at the case management and Initial case management sections after you've chosen a Judge. The most debtor cases go to Judges Appel, Brick and Castellanos. You will not believe how many cases are collections cases where BANKS who received BAILOUT MONEY are suing people who have been unemployed for years, people who only get SSDI, people who have active cancer and so forth.

Fuck these banks. Y'all need to recognize this is highway robbery and everything the banks are lobbying for- our administration has supported for the most part. We don't benefit at all.

alicia banks said...

mr:

you are a better warrior than me

i hate john m
i voted for hc
and i voted for obama by default

but

all politicos are evil as we live in an evil world

what we collectively failed to do re: obama was STUDY who he really was and where he really came from...and CHECK HIM FROM DAY ONE...

while we doted...he dastardly deceived

lesser evils are STILL evil
power corrupts

&

absolute power unchecked becomes even more evil

Greg L said...

AB and MR,

Thanks for getting with Kathy..saved me from typing a post.

M. Rigmaiden said...

AB see the link from the AP wire in my first post that explains how the banks don't have corporate tax liability for this year. It is utterly shameful.

And BTW I know about the lawsuits from personal experience. I recently helped a friend get out of a debt collection lawsuit and it was so fucked up.By the grace of God, he got out of it because they made procedural errors.

But why did they sue him in the first place? He told them when he was laid off. Did they offer to freeze their usorious interest or anything else? NO. Charges kept piling on and even when he was making his payments on time, his balance NEVER WENT DOWN; ONLY UP due to the predatory interest rates.

Another thing they are doing is lowering people's credit limits without notice and the consequence is that when someone goes over their new limit, they incur over the limit charges and the bank can raise their low interest rate to the default rate.

Wake up America. We've been duped!

alicia banks said...

ditto mr!

obama gave banks trillions and rights to wild with said trillions

and wilding they are!

no loans
no refinancing
no jobs
no mercy

http://www.theage.com.au/business/anger-over-100-home-loans-20080805-3qiz.html


http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/24/news/economy/banks.lending.fortune/index.htm

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-hey-president-obama-heres-an-easy-way-to-get-banks-to-lend-2009-12

M. Rigmaiden said...

AB and Greg L, I feel you guys. Have a wonderful rest of day. Gotta go:)

alicia banks said...

and most americans are carrying excess fees and interest on ALL credit cards that are OWNED BY the dirty evil bankers

the credit card rules are getting more ruthless for holiday shoppers

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/12/your-money/credit-and-debit-cards/12cards.html

alicia banks said...

ditto mr:

u 2

alicia banks said...

gl:

my pleasure!

it is so good to see rebel allies herein...

alicia banks said...

gl:

evem before the holiday consumerism rishes began

the avg american was paying 29% interest on each avg credit card...

i have a citibank owned gas card...they phoned me to say they will be charging me a $7.00 per mo "non usage fee"

so i am now being punished for NOT allowing them to charge me 29%!!!

shame!!!!

alicia banks said...

credit cards are wilding too!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2008-11-09-bank-credit-card-interest-rates_N.htm

c.c.-kathy said...

Kathy you are misinformed. Tell me why the banks have no tax liabilities? If our nation is broke, couldn't the IRS use BILLIONS of corporate tax dollars?
______________
Nobody pays taxes on losses. That simple. The pay back will bring money back to the government, at a ratio of 1-3.

I don't have to prove that nobody pays taxes on losses, do I?

uptownsteve said...

CF

"Assuming that you do believe in this "Marshall Plan" as the key fix for Black folks please define the dimensions of the program."

Lying already.

The Marshall Plan would be for the revitalization of the inner city ghetto.

Create Urban Zone Investment Tax Credits to target investments in impoverished inner city communities

Offer Tax credits to aid small and medium size businesses in inner city neighborhoods.

Implement Van Jones incredible idea of Green Jobs for the inner city

A program that would yield almost immediate fruit.

"After the program has been fully exhausted what "debt" will have been paid and thus what will the American Establishment no longer have to react to because of "past grievances"?"

I mentioned nothing about a debt.

However, I'm curious.

How exactly has the American "establishment" reacted to past grievances by blacks outside of empty symbolism???



Establish a venture capital fund to invest in businesses based in impoverished urban centers



After the program has been fully exhausted what "debt" will have been paid and thus what will the American Establishment no longer have to react to because of "past grievances"?

What type of organization overlay would you suggest so that these resources and services are appropriately distributed to the people in need?

alicia banks said...

fn:

great article on why and how obama flagrantly ignores all critics (just like his mentor/clone gwb)

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/barack_has_no_deaf_ense_for_tin_eKCniIScOV2j2e0bi8yWTK

alicia banks said...

cck:

maybe you are confused by gains that are masked as/written off as losses?

Greg L said...

AB,

I used to dismiss the idea of growing my own food and canning my own stuff. Although I grew up in the city, my folks were from the rural south and that's what they did and saved a bunch of money as a result. What they did was minimize the need for money.

Our dollar is going to be a worthless damn piece of paper after these fools get done and it seems to me that the best way to survive what's coming is to have either your own "currency" or to minimize the need for whatever script they call currency.

These guys are wilding for a reason, they're rushing for the exits and want to make sure that take everything with them...

uptownsteve said...

Greggy,

"Wait, aren't you the one accusing me of denigrating black folks, yet you want me to assume that they committed the bulk of the crimes on a table that fails to prove your point?"

I see you are a relentless bull$hit artist like CF so this will be my last response to you.

As I earlier stated that most black people are law-abiding citizens and that there are large numbers of hispanics who live in impoverished inner city neighborhoods, how can you possibly suggest that my statement was an attack on black people?

Talk to any law enforcement official and they will tell you that the preponderance of violent crime in any metropolitan area will be in the impoverished inner city ghetto whether that was 1970 or 2007.

Now all things being equal if there were more violent crime nationwide in 1977 than 2007, then there was more violent crime in the inner city ghetto in 1977 than in 2007.

This isn't complicated.

alicia banks said...

ditto gl:

all of those who have scoffed at and slandered all those "doomsday" garden growers and tea drinkers and birthers will have to eat crow as they do garden someday...

____

cck:

like this "loss"?

http://www.law360.com/registrations/user_registration?article_id=120667&concurrency_check=false

alicia banks said...

uts:

how will 1977's or 2007's stats help any of us survive 2010+????

how will they save one jobless homeless hungry soul now in 2009 even????

alicia banks said...

gl:

ditto

new world order = us dollar = 0 = new money = global money/banks

http://www.prisonplanet.com/medvedev-unveils-world-currency-coin-at-g8.html

alicia banks said...

gl:

martial law looms via obama

and when food = weapon
gardens = illegal

http://www.rense.com/general85/seeds.htm

alicia banks said...

ditto uts

and foreclosures = no homes = no pvt lands to garden

it is systematic genocide via poverty

alicia banks said...

5:32

i meant

ditto GL!

alicia banks said...

uts:

here is another beloved stat for u

2009's vets are TWICE as likely to be homeless compared to vietnam vets

fyi
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latest-news/americas-new-homeless-veterans

Anonymous said...

I cant believe that I am typing this but I am not so sure about this one. I am glad though that there is still a segment of black people who still care about black people. These people are a dying breed!!

I dont know about black folks trying to embarass Obama on a national scale. Sometimes when black people hate or diss a certain black person or when a black person distances themselves from other black people they are even MORE beloved by white people.
However I realize that this is not the point.

Anonymous said...

I cant believe that I am typing this but I am not so sure about this one. I am glad though that there is still a segment of black people who still care about black people. These people are a dying breed!!

I dont know about black folks trying to embarass Obama on a national scale. Sometimes when black people hate or diss a certain black person or when a black person distances themselves from other black people they are even MORE beloved by white people.
However I realize that this is not the point.

Anonymous said...

Pretty soon, the color barrier will be between Green and No Green (as in money) if it ain't already happened!


That is right...there are a lot of well to do black folks as whites seem to be unaware of that and yes it is going to be about the haves and the have nots in the future!

alicia banks said...

assnon:

i cannot believe that you typed that either

nothing is as embarassing as being homeless and jobless and hungry...

rest assured

the blackish obama is definitely the victor here and he will be so for decades

pray tell:

just what is your "point"????

Hathor said...

There is a two tier service industry, one that services money and another that services consumerism. It seems there is little industry in between. The retail industry is the low paid end of the service industry, whereas you only make the big bucks servicing money and not people.

There is little manufacturing for the size of this country. We don't produce enough to balance trade, and if it weren't for the farmers we would have little domestic product.

Now how is a billion dollars going to create jobs. We can only have so many Starbucks, Walmarts and Macys to hire; that also includes dry cleaners, pizza shops, corner stores, too.

Where are the ideas of innovation that will stay in this country? Soon as many companies are on its feet, they out source. A lot of these layoffs didn't come from the recession, it came as a reorganization of the company. The jobs were still there, but are now being transacted 12,000 miles away.

Some how the price of gas has stayed lower. If the price had stayed at 4 dollars a gallon, some manufacturing might have become local again, because it would have been too expensive to transport goods. Even with high levels of technology, manufacturing usually provides the greater amount of employment for an area. Its product will not saturate the local market.

In order for people to have jobs, there actually has to be jobs that need to be done.

alicia banks said...

ditto hathor:

and most of the millions of jobs lost will NEVER return...

http://www.workers.org/2009/us/permanent_job_loss_0319/

Greg L said...

More obfuscation from Stevie here and he has the unmitigated gall to accuse me of being the bullshit artist.

>>>>As I earlier stated that most black people are law-abiding citizens and that there are large numbers of hispanics who live in impoverished inner city neighborhoods, how can you possibly suggest that my statement was an attack on black people?<<<<<

Again, I was just pointing out the contradiction in your stance here. Again, the contradiction your accusing me of denigrating black folks, but you INSIST that I extrapolate and assume that black folks constitute the main driver behind total crime in the US based on a table that fails to support a point YOU made. In several posts here you've accused me and others here of dogging black folks, but it's okay for you to make assumptions about who commits crime while still having a problem with those of us who say something needs to be done about it. That's not only contradictory, but tortured from a logic standpoint. You should be on the front lines with me, CF, AB and the rest of us who think something needs to be done.

>>>>>Talk to any law enforcement official and they will tell you that the preponderance of violent crime in any metropolitan area will be in the impoverished inner city ghetto whether that was 1970 or 2007. Now all things being equal if there were more violent crime nationwide in 1977 than 2007, then there was more violent crime in the inner city ghetto in 1977 than in 2007.This isn't complicated.<<<<<

No this ain't complicated. All I've asked for you to do back up your assertion and for the third time you've refused to do so while insisting on continued bobbing and weaving. It's real simple, right click your mouse, and copy and paste the damn link that proves your point about crime declining in the black community from the 1970's till now.

If you're being honest in the debate here, you would cease with the obfuscation and withdraw the point like a gentlemen.

c.c.-kathy said...

maybe you are confused by gains that are masked as/written off as losses?

______________

Alicia, when the banks pay back their bailouts to the government, they are still solvent, but it is still a loss. Look, I am not defending banks, I can't stand them either. But that is neither here nor there. As is the argument about how banks spent bailout money. It isn't relevant, imo.

alicia banks said...

gl ditto!

"If you're being honest in the debate here"

uts is NEVER honest herein!!!!!!!!!

that is why he goes off on all of his dishonest tangents/bogus ancient stats rants etc!

____


fn:

see a great article on tiger and obama's dual unmaskings

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/tiger-and-obama-fallen-black-role-models

uptownsteve said...

"but you INSIST that I extrapolate and assume that black folks constitute the main driver behind total crime in the US based on a table that fails to support a point YOU made."

You're a pathetic liar.

I have insisted that crime is a socio-economic issue not a racial one.

You were the one yapping about "black communities" being ripe with crime.

As if there are no middle class safe black communities.

Are you CF's afterbirth?

alicia banks said...

cck:

is it relevant that obama robbed the poor to allow the banks to cook books/profit....as they wish?

that is all we stated...

gotta go

see more at:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/obama-drama-the-poor-are-getting-poorer-the-middle-class-becomes-the-new-poor.html

later,
ab

c.c.-kathy said...

from the link:
The government estimates it could see a profit of $13 billion to $14 billion on its investment in the bank.

The Treasury said it was pleased Citigroup was moving forward with the plans.

c.c.-kathy said...

Hathor,
I think one way that good jobs will be created is through work done on our infrastructure, with a new focus on the environmental concerns. Bridges, transportation, water systems, fuel, these will bring in a lot of good jobs, from blue collar workers to executives.

Anonymous said...

"but you INSIST that I extrapolate and assume that black folks constitute the main driver behind total crime in the US based on a table that fails to support a point YOU made."

Here's the info you need Steve,

"As of 2005, statistics show that homicide rates for blacks were seven times higher than those for whites."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Greg L said...

>>>>>You're a pathetic liar. I have insisted that crime is a socio-economic issue not a racial one. You were the one yapping about "black communities" being ripe with crime.
As if there are no middle class safe black communities. Are you CF's afterbirth?<<<<<

Well, I guess I've been baptized at this point on this board and a newbie no longer. Stevie calls me a liar, a "conservative", a BS artist and etc. He's shifted the argument to run to high ground and thrown landmines all around. The man has thrown everything at me except the kitchen sink.

The one thing he hasn't thrown out is the link to the facts that prove his contention. So, I'll take all the name calling as a concession on that point.

M. Rigmaiden said...

I came back for a few moments and saw a lot of misinformation. Look, the government bought up toxic assests that will not do anything for the American people. Kathy you are completely incorrect about the irrelevance of what banks did with bailout money and a damned fool. You have been hoodwinked into believing that the government has your interests in mind.

If it did, there never would have been a bailout. If the government cared, credit card companies would not be able to avoid usury laws via a SCOTUS ruling in the 1970's to charge folks a DEFAULT rate of 28.999%. You are championing a system that does not work and that is absolutely nonsensical.

This is why I think you are some undercover PR agent for our unscrupulous President and his cronies. I am so extremely mad about this because the facts are before people's faces and they still turn their backs to the truth.

BTW about tax law, even if businesses took losses they still have to pay taxes; whether the ancillary payroll etc. The IRS granted the banks that deal NOT to pay shit, yet the IRS is levying people's bank accounts and threatening them with wage garnishment over a couple thousand dollars. Don't you see the problem here? If you don't then you are simply a shill for a fucked up system meant to screw people over.

I have a garden (fallow for winter) but over the summer we grew at least one third of our food organically. If more people did that, then as GL pointed out, the need for FIAT currency would be lessened.

And that is the biggest issue here anyway; our money only has worth because the powers that be say it is worth something. And the powers that be are desperately trying to devalue the dollar and move onto other places. Meanwhile, we will be left as an impoverished and ignorant nation of post consumers who can no longer afford their lifestyles but have absolutely no skills to do shit about it.

c.c.-kathy said...

M.Rigmaiden
And that is the biggest issue here anyway; our money only has worth because the powers that be say it is worth something.
____________
That is what is really relevant, if you think I like Wall St. or banks,you are mistaken, I hate even talking about this stuff, it gives me a terrible headache, I avoid finance as much as possible. But I still stand by my opinions on the bank pay backs.

c.c.-kathy said...

M.Rigmaiden.If the government cared, credit card companies would not be able to avoid usury laws via a SCOTUS ruling in the 1970's to charge folks a DEFAULT rate of 28.999%. You are championing a system that does not work and that is absolutely nonsensical
______________
The banks are doing that in anticipation of new regulations, I don't have time for a link. Look it up if you don't believe me.

LACoincidental said...

Honestly, I'm of two minds here. Yes, Obama should be criticized for his financial policies. Post stabilization, he should ask the permission of banks for tough regulation. You're the damn President!!! You could fire all these CEO and make on giant federal credit union.

That being said, two points. As Hathor pointed out, we're primarly a service industry country. Its a nation of giant strip malls. Now, note a nurse, an IT engineering and a starbuck barista are all 'service' industry. The problem is there is a short of the first, a dirth of oppurtunities of good paying IT jobs and way too many folks who can only work in the latter.

Without a real plan to revitalize industry in the new growth sectors of healthcare, alternative energy and green technologies, there's no amount of money we can pump to get our economy resembling anything but a 2nd tier nation, at best.
A country of strip malls.

We elected Obama to change things. And we have a right to demand them.


That being said -- we really don't look at politics like grown people. I hate to sound like a broken record, but Obama is one man, he's not Jesus or Krishna. He can't wave is mulatto hand and change the entrenched oligarch culture in Washington in less than a year. And it would be utterly foolish to bring a full team of loud activist neophytes who ain't ready to roll with the big dogs (see Van Jones).

As Americans we tend to oversimplify political change. Obama has been the elected president for 13 months, and serving for less than 11. If he could fulfill the laundry list of issues and concerns people like AB have (no hate sister, I agree with you about 80% of the time), Limbaugh and the other right wing clowns would be correct -- Obama would really be a 'Magic Negro'. And he'd also have to be a virtual dictator, no different than Cesar Chavez or the chimpanzee we call George W. Bush.

What's the CBC complaining about? These jigaboos have had over 30 years to get on their A game. The CBC is readying pitch forks for Obama but they that idiot Dubya:

- Allow terrorists to blow up lower Manhattan.
- Watched as a major US costal city and its residents nearly drown.
- Crashed the economy in all ways possible.

And lets not forget Clinton, Daddy Bush, Reagan (the Devil himself, Carter (though I like Carter), Ford, Nixon. And lets not forget the corrupt local inner cities and anemic state government. The CBC and progressives have been on virtual losing streak since LBJ left office. Hell Watergate was a fluke.

And lets not forget, our government are our representatives -- so the owness is really on us. I'm from Connecticut, and I can honestly say that I didn't work hard enough to keep Holy Joe from getting back into the Senate.
So before we start getting snippy with the skinny light-skinned cat from Hawaii -- let's take a long look in our national reflection. Obama, at worse, is a symptom of our national apathy towards change.

M. Rigmaiden said...

Kathy:
Your response makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. State usury laws were overturned via a SCOTUS ruling in the 1970's that said that only the interest rate of the state in which the bank is headquartered applies in credit transactions.

Ergo Delaware and North Dakota are where these companies do business because they have high usury ceilings. So in California where the usury ceiling is either 10% or set by the Federal Reserve in SF, a bank can still charge you a default interest rate of 28.999%. That is wrong. The banks were able to undermine the collective WILL of the people by getting their buddies on the SCOTUS bench to rule in their favor.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

The banks also have the comptroller of the currency in their pockets too because they do very little when consumers complain about predatory lending practices.

I am aware of the IMPOTENT new regulations on the books that don't do a damned thing to help American consumer citizens. You say you don't like Wallstreet but contradict yourself wildly.

I have an idea, why don't you learn about finance and economics then follow the rabbit hole to see how much we've been screwed over? Then you might change your tune. Otherwise you are playing the dumb ignorant role and may God help you!

I am wiling out right now and have taken my frustrations out on you because you remain willfully ignorant. But that isn't my place because I've made mistakes too. Pls pardon me for my rudeness!

Anonymous said...

I suppose it's no coincidence tat the president's approval rating has dropped under 50%.

M. Rigmaiden said...

LACoincidental:
Your comment is thoughtful and frankly, I disagree on one point. You say that our President couldn't change the entrenched oligarchy in one year. You are right. HOWEVER, he has SUPPORTED that oligarchical structure via his support of the TARP programme, and other bailouts. The truth is that he IS part of the oligarchy and is a frontman for their agenda of fleecing us.

c.c.-kathy said...

M.Rigmaiden. I realize everybody is angry, I have felt a lot of anger over those high interest rates too.

I am not contradicting myself, it's just my opinion on the reality as I see it.

M.Rigmaiden, I like you, and please, no need to apologize if you were rude, everybody gets angry, I was angry about these bailouts too. Thanks for the conversation.

LACoincidental said...

M. Rigmaiden. Fair enough, he's a frontman. What do you expect out of the U chicago school of economics?

Either way, Obama is a symptom. Honestly, if as many people were protesting for healthcare as the idiot teabaggers, we might have conversation on healthcare reform. If the left kept up the pressure on the banking bailout instead rolling up our tents, going home and crying on our blogs.

Its easy to dump on Obama as its easy to oversimply the fact that all but a handful of congressman adn senators signed on to Bush war and we didn't vote them out the first time.

Greg L said...

MR,

Do you recall how bankruptcy reform arose? Prior to 9/11, the banks were trying to push it through, but got delayed. A couple of years later, they came back on pushed it through thus ending or significantly reducing homestead exemptions and instituting means testing on whether you could go through Chapter 7.

I'm convinced that these guys knew what the endgame was going to be and set themselves up. The entire situation we're in currently was predictable and this is what pisses me off.

You have many who are still drinking the koolaid and they're in for a very rude awakening.

This has been long in the making. Hator's analysis is spot on as well. The loss of the manufacturing base and Nixon's removal of the country from the gold standard, set up the wide money printing/credit creation regime as a substitute for making real stuff and real money. Now with all the financial alchemy losing its steam, we all have hell to pay. I question if even being here in the US is the absolute best thing at this point. I'm not trying to be overly negative or dramatic here, but quite frankly, the oligarchs have no allegiance to this country and if they're exiting, why shouldn't I start thinking about it?

Greg L said...

<<<Either way, Obama is a symptom. Honestly, if as many people were protesting for healthcare as the idiot teabaggers, we might have conversation on healthcare reform. If the left kept up the pressure on the banking bailout instead rolling up our tents, going home and crying on our blogs.

Its easy to dump on Obama as its easy to oversimply the fact that all but a handful of congressman adn senators signed on to Bush war and we didn't vote them out the first time.<<<<<

This is true. What we really have is a failed political/economic system that's so opaque that one has to have damn near a PhD in economics to understand what the hell is going on. This opaqueness combined with the bullshit they pump into everyone's head keeps people from seeing what the true picture is. The people need to be educated on these matters and that's no easy task.

There's an over-reliance on the politician to do the right thing. The only problem is that they stopped doing that long ago. The entire system is the problem.

Ernesto said...

CF said: "The claim was "once we get people into power who CARE ABOUT THE INTERESTS OF WORKING PEOPLE........things will be better". Now you have to look past them and talk to the feds?"

There's a lot of things local government can do, but there are some very importnant things they can't do. Local people don't negotiate international trade treaties or have the deep pockets to fund large scale employment projects, for example.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]What type of organization overlay would you suggest so that these resources and services are appropriately distributed to the people in need?[/quote]

Steve:

Did you notice in your response to me you answered the questions about what the GOVERNMENT needed to do for the "Marshall Plan". Much of it had to do with tax policies and subsidy.

When it came to specificity on what THE COMMUNITY needed to do in support of this - you left a blank.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]There's a lot of things local government can do, but there are some very importnant things they can't do. Local people don't negotiate international trade treaties or have the deep pockets to fund large scale employment projects, for example.[/quote]

Ernesto:

The Rust Belt region of the USA started rusting long before the most hated International Trade agreements that organized labor hates today even came into existence.

Surely there were some other forces that negatively impacted these employment and population centers?

I hear movements that talk about "only eat goods that are produced less than 200 miles away from you". Isn't this a more powerful consciousness than seeking to ban Chilean grapes from the grocery store? Does THEIR PRESENCE in the store trump your consciousness that Chile is more than 200 miles away and thus you should let them sit there on the shelf until it rots?

Ernesto said...

CF: progress is being made on locally produced foods and grassroots organizing is the main cause for this improvement. Your ideological soulmates spent most of their last national convention insulting and belittling community organizers. Why?

alicia banks said...

i will never pretend that obama has ONLY had time to help the rich

i will never pretend that ONLY blacks and gays should be patient 4ever

i will never pretend that my peers who are laid off from corp posts want to/can/will don hard hats and build roads etc

obama is a liar and his jobs are a hoax like all else about him

all will SOON see...

Anonymous said...

AB, stop beating up on our President! He is doing the best he can do with this mess, which he did not create. Furthermore, he is the nation's first black President. Aren't you proud that America can elect a black man to lead our racist nation? That is a miracle!

Give him a chance, will ya?

LACoincidental said...

Anon@12:34

There is a segment of society that honestly hates any politician an inch to the right of the Green Party. So many so-call 'progressives' hated Obama when he was a virtual nobody in the Illinois Senate. They'd rather tilt windmills behind vanity campaigns like Nader or Kuicinich. Too many progressive have chosen to 'opt out' of the political spitballs the entire process -- maintaining the idea of purity while do little to productively change things. Its easy blog and write wise cracks on a blog. Its (relatively) easy to get out the pig puppets and whine about the system with your hookah circle. Its a lot harder to build a movement and force change.

To AB's defense, merely supporting a politician because he's black shouldn't be a requirement for anyone. There are plenty of Black politicians who I would vote for Klansman over -- at least their honest. She can criticize the O-man all she wants, its her right as an American citizen, and honestly her duty, to speak up against things she doesn't believe in.

M. Rigmaiden said...

GL, yes I recall the bankruptcy reform that was touted as a solution for those folks who committed fraud in BK court. Funny how the consequences of that so called reform are rearing their heads now. I agree with you pretty much in entirety and have been trying to learn Portugeuse and beef up my Spanish. I want my son to be quadrilingual because the truth is that we are already one global state.Sovreignty doesn't really exist anymore. However, there are some opportunities out there for those of us who try to think outside of our linguistic boxes.

Nevertheless, I think that moving away to greener pasteurs might help for a short time, until private bankers fleece that place and the cycle continues. On the other hand, if people rise up and get some sense a monetary revolution might also occur.

LAConfidential, you are right; it is easy to dump on the President and what I find so disingenuous about protestors on the right is that they fully supported the previous regime no matter what. They didn't protest the bailouts when GW Bush thought it would be a good idea, but Obamas support of the bailouts makes him persona non grata.

The inconsistencies tie into racism, imho. And to be sure, I never supported the bailouts nor Obama in the first place. BUT I still cried when he was elected;)

Kathy: Thanks for your understanding. I was being a frustrated asshole and that is uncalled for; appreciate your civility.

Click me to see the REAL Alicia Banks said...

Ditto! I hate Obama, wark, wark, wark, post x 100.

alicia banks said...

assnon:

unlike u, i am no racist

i never judge anyone by their race

i judge them ONLY by their actions

and obama's actions are WHITER and MORE racist and elitist than gwb's

ie
gwb would never gut hbcu's
and
he never bought a bank/auto co etc

gwb and his ilk were CERTAIN that they could dupe the racist black masses and rainbows of liberal idiots by getting a blackish man to destroy them EVEN worse than gwb...while they looked on in awe and cheered him on as he slew them like so many fans at a rock star's concert...

thanks for proving them correct!

if blind lying fools like you could get as angry at obama for DESTROYING you as you are angry at me about detailing that destruction...perhaps there would be some hope for the masses...

but hopelessly suicidal doting coddling masochistic moronic sheeple like you cheer on your blackish fleecer in chief...

shame!!!!!!!


http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-12-15/has-obama-abandoned-blacks/

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/obama-drama-the-poor-are-getting-poorer-the-middle-class-becomes-the-new-poor.html


also unlike u,
i have the courage to show my face, beauty,a brain, and sexy eyes that see obama clearly

see me here:

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/photos/

alicia banks said...

lac:

i love u

thanks

the revolution will happen...

millions will perish

assnon is proving that some losses will be welcomed...

assnons will never and should never be saved!

alicia banks said...

ditto mr:

and i also refuse to excuse all those black racists who refuse to admit that to date obama has been a CLONE of gwb who has GROSSLY ESCALATED ALL of gwb's agendas

ie

where are all thos war protesters who dogged gwb now????

why do they give obama a pass on new wars and more troops????

OBAMA’S HYPOCRISIES NEVER VACATION!!!

War via Bush = Bad

Same war + new wars via Obama = Good

WHY???!!!

KUDOS TO SHERO WARRIOR CINDY SHEEHAN!!!

Sheehan is one brave mother of one felled soldier among thousands of American casualties of the brutal and illegal war in Iraq. Admirably, she dared to relentlessly dog George W. Bush/King Shrub after her son was murdered in Iraq.

Now that she has finally seen how Obama truly plans to only escalate that very same war, Sheehan will heroically and belatedly begin relentlessly dogging Obama too.

Sadly, I do not expect to see any sincere media coverage of Sheehan’s war with Obama. Unlike Bush’s Nazis, Obama’s Nazis rule all media. Televised or not, Sheehan may become a righteously jagged rock in the ritzy sands of Obama’s upcoming opulent beach vacation. Stay tuned…

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/ABCs-Charles-Gibson-to-Cindy-Sheehan-Thanks-for-your-sacrifice-Now-get-lost-53803917.html

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/28/sheehan/index.html

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/23940/

http://www.infowars.com/where-is-the-anti-war-movement-in-the-age-of-obama/

http://www.nationalrepublicrat.com/cindy-sheehan-protests-against-obama-war-policy-ignored-by-media/

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Sheehan-Pro-Obama-media-want-the-anti-war-movement-to-go-away-53933442.html

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/09/18575706.php

alicia banks said...

see more on cindy sheehan:


http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/obamas-hypocrisies-never-vacation.html

alicia banks said...

assnon:

got any more stupid juvenile disses or fake photos links for cornel west????????

"I think that it’s quite telling that [Obama] would give personal responsibility speeches to black people, but not a lot of personal responsibility speeches to Wall Street in terms of execution. And when you actually look at the degree to which issues of accountability for poor people—but where’s the accountability when you’re bailing out these Wall Street elites, $700 billion? That’s socialism for the rich. That’s your policy. Don’t then go to these folk who are locked into dilapidated housing, decrepit school systems, many on their way to a prison-industrial complex, and talk about their fathers didn’t come through. And we know the fathers got problems. We understand that. But there are structural institutional challenges that he’s not hitting, hitting head on.

And I should say this, too, I think, in terms of style, that the Obama administration is obsessed with the wrong Lincoln. They are obsessed with the Lincoln who they think moved to the right and was trying to create bipartisan consensus with conservatives, whereas we know there’s no Lincoln without Frederick Douglass. There’s no Lincoln without Harriet Beecher Stowe. There’s no Lincoln without Wendell Phillips or Charles Sumner. That was a social movement.

Lincoln supported the slave trade when he was in the House. He supported the Fugitive Slave Act. In the first inaugural lecture he gave, he supported the first proposed Thirteenth Amendment, which said there would be slavery forever in America, the unamendable amendment. That was Lincoln. If it were not for the abolitionist movement, the courageous black and white freedom fighters, from John Brown to Douglass, who put pressure on Lincoln, we would have been dealing with a white supremacist Lincoln.

Lincoln became great, because a social movement pushed him against slavery in that regard. And Obama is looking to the wrong Lincoln. And if he doesn’t understand the greatness of Lincoln was responding to the social movements of working people and poor people, he’s going to end up with a failed presidency, with a lot of symbolic gestures, but, on the ground, everyday people, those Sly Stone called “everyday people,” suffering still.”


obama = FAIL...IN ANY COLOR!!!!!!!!!!

alicia banks said...

assnon:

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/b-blackish-beguiling-betrayer.html

obama = F!!!

just like you Fool!!!

Black Diaspora said...

I wish I had time to jump into the fray, but let me offer some additional observations.

The bailout was world wide, and not something that was done unilaterally, and only within the U.S.

So our nation was not the only nation that believed that an imminent collapse of the world economy was a potential reality, and that something had to be done to bolster the financial sector.

Hate it or love it, many nations bought into the bailout remedy.

That's my first point.

If you read the above link, you'll see that it references what is termed, an "unregulated shadow banking market."

This is the key to the whole economic debacle, which gets very little press, and it's doubtful that new regulatory reform will actually address the problem.

Here's what the article states in part:

"The unregulated shadow banking market, where the Bank estimates $14,500bn of "toxic" assets responsible for the financial crisis have proliferated, is also expected to come under tight scrutiny. The report says: 'Existing infrastructures need strengthening in light of the liquidity and counterparty risks which crystalised during this crisis.'"

This is the derivative market, a 750 trillion dollar market world wide. Note I said "trillion," with a T, not billion with a B.

It's bigger than our GNP for the year 2005, $12,970 billion, and most likely greater than the GNPs of all nations, all told.

This shadow market has been allowed to grow over the past couple of decades, and even encouraged to grow, and do so without supervision and governmental oversight.

It was a disaster waiting to happen.

That's my second point.

Unless we, and other nations, rein in this "shadow banking market," we ain't seen nothing yet.

Speaking of too big to fail: we have allowed this monstrosity to grow in our midst, with fearful ramifications, while those whose place it was to protect us, looked the other way.

It ain't just about us, folks. The whole world teetered on the brink of economic collapse, fueled by greed, paid-off politicians, and a regulatory body that pretended that the problem didn't exist, and, if it did, it was too complicated to understand.

Also, those who had the responsibility to rate companies and assets gave favorable ratings where they shouldn't have, and that contributed to the problem as well.

Black Diaspora said...

Again, I'm rushed: But let me say this regarding violence in the black community.

I have always said that the problem is not merely a black problem, but a national problem, one that every one should own.

And that white, black, brown, or what have you, have a vested interest in providing solutions, rather than pointing fingers, and insisting that the burden should fall to blacks alone.

I premised that it wasn't just blacks that created the problem, and that the problem did not originate in a vacuum, but that the government, and social forces, especially those that originate outside of black communities, were responsible, and that until perceptions changed, the problem would persist.

For example, we can't tell a group within this country that they don't matter (directly or indirectly), that they aren't valued, that their lives don't count, and expect that group, or a subset of that group, its youth, to feel a kinship, and an ownership, to a sufficient degree to alter behavior, or manifest a behavior that supports the values and ideals of the whole.

That's not going to happen. I reached these conclusions independent of any study to support my claim. Such a study now exists, and I'll share it with you.

No study is airtight, and I suspect that this one is no exception, but I do feel it goes a long way toward providing answers, and pointing to viable directions that many other proposed solutions haven't taken into account.

grinder said...

Black Diaspora, I think you make one hell of a profound point there.

Black Diaspora said...

grinder said...
"Black Diaspora, I think you make one hell of a profound point there."

Thank you.

alicia banks said...

bd:

ditto

even ivy league profs once tenured are being axed and becoming newly poor

none of us are safe

not even the happy deluded uts

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/06/24/harvard_workers_stunned_by_layoffs_of_275/

Black Diaspora said...

alicia banks said...
"bd:

ditto"

Thanks Alicia. Interesting link. Shedding 275 employees from this prestigious university should send shudders throughout academia.

I know that salary increases were suspended for some, but I'd propose a salary cut across the board to retain the 275 that are being cut.

Economics be damn. Let's preserve as many jobs as is possible in this economic downturn.

It's good neighborly, and I'd be willing to sacrifice for those who will be facing the harsh realities of layoffs for what could be months, if not years.

grinder said...

BD, those Harvard people shouldn't have too much trouble finding jobs somewhere else. Sure, it's a bitch to move, and having done it myself after a layoff I can attest that it ain't exactly fun. But I think they'll land on their feet.

Harvard's endowment took a gigantic hit last year. I think these 275 are the tip of the iceberg. You can be sure there'll be more, and that soon enough there will be faculty salary freezes and reductions.

Think of this one as a centipede with a shoe on the end of each leg. Lots more to drop. This is one of the things that happens in a depression. And yes it sucks, and you'd think the bastards could have at least waited until the new year. The week before Christmas, that's pretty damn harsh.

grinder said...

I remember talking to some people four or five years ago about the depression that I saw coming, and remarking how many Americans didn't live through the 1970s, especially in the rustbelt, and would be completely unprepared when it hit.

I mean, it's bad for the Harvard people, but the same thing is happening at state colleges and universities all around the country. You've got whole state governments out there on the brink of bankruptcy.

This shit's gonna get a lot worse before it gets any better. There won't be any outright overall collapse, but a lot of lives are going to be changed forever, and not in a good way.

That's why, as someone with a financial background, I'd be harsher on Wall Street than just about anyone I know. Obama has been giving these people a free pass, and I for one don't like it one fuckin' bit.

Black Diaspora said...

grinder said...
"BD, those Harvard people shouldn't have too much trouble finding jobs somewhere else."

I hope you're right, but the picture you paint isn't all that rosy: "it's bad for the Harvard people, but the same thing is happening at state colleges and universities all around the country. You've got whole state governments out there on the brink of bankruptcy."

"I remember talking to some people four or five years ago about the depression that I saw coming...."

Our current economic woes weren't created by some cyclical economic adjustments.

That I could accept.

A perfect storm of avoidable conditions intersected, and the government played a pivotal role by adopting a hands-off policy, and repealing legislation designed to ward off a recession this deep, and prevent an reenactment of the depression that struck during the late twenties.

True: We made concessions to wall street, and those concessions continue.

For now, we're forced to make adjustments to how the economic machinery runs, but not wholesale, as we're doing it while the machinery is still moving, and parts need to be swapped out without damaging the wheels, and nuts and bolts that drive the gears.

Yet, to prevent a repeat of what we've seen (an almost world-wide economic meltdown), a drastic overhaul is not only in order, it's imperative.

And I'm not sure that congress has the cajones to do more than tweak it here and tweak it there, after giving the economy a life-support intervention with the various bailouts.

"That's why, as someone with a financial background, I'd be harsher on Wall Street than just about anyone I know. Obama has been giving these people a free pass, and I for one don't like it one fuckin' bit."

I concur. Conventional wisdom says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

But the system is broke, and the fix: prop up the financial system, and relieve it of its toxic assets, or at least offset their potential damage, not only to the financial sector, but to the whole economy.

If we don't fix what led to this fiasco, history will certainly repeat itself, and we will revisit these hard times in the not too distant future.

Greed must be regulated, either from the inside, or from the outside, but regulated it must.

grinder said...

BD, agree with everything you wrote. I am very discouraged with what Obama has done, or more to the point what he hasn't done. He looks more and more like Jimmy Carter every day. It's far from only his fault. The Democratic Party has a goddamned death wish. For the life of me, I simply don't understand it!

Greg L said...

>>>>BD, agree with everything you wrote. I am very discouraged with what Obama has done, or more to the point what he hasn't done. He looks more and more like Jimmy Carter every day. It's far from only his fault. The Democratic Party has a goddamned death wish. For the life of me, I simply don't understand it!<<<<

Actually, there's a rather simple explanation as to why things aren't getting fixed. Fixing things means that the various oligarchs who created this mess be allowed to fail. They'll tout the creative/destructive forces of capitalism for the rest of us, but wish to escape those same forces themselves, so they'll use their lobbyists and whatever other means to ensure the government protects them from the very destruction they've created. Basically, they've purchased moral hazard insurance by buying off most of the political structure.

Fixing things means their failure and the political structure is not willing to do the right thing, so the fallout of all of this will be on the backs of the people.

grinder said...

Here is an interesting story about Harvard's financial troubles.

Greg L, the problem with letting the oligarchs fail is that they'll take down the whole financial system with them, and we'll suffer much more than they do. It will be 1932 all over again, and all rhetoric aside this is not something anyone should welcome.

It's about as comfortable to say as swallowing razor blades, but I really think the gov't had no choice on the bailouts. My issue with Obama is that there has been no accountability for what these people did. We stick people in jail for robbing a bank with a gun, and I support that. Well we should godsdamn well stick people in jail for robbing a bank with a pen, and those terms should be much harsher than they are for the small-timers with guns.

These robbers in suits have been allowed to waddle away into the sunset, and that is truly fucked up.

Greg L said...

Grinder,

I think we'll have 1932 again away. The only difference will be that the people alone will suffer.

Leaving the oligarchs in place leaves the entire system in place that caused the problem to begin with. They can't stick these people in jail as they control the various levers of government such that that won't be allowed to occur. There hasn't been accountability for years and the entire regulatory apparatus has been really stifled for years effectively at their behest.

Moreover, it's not as if they're not going to allow banks to fail. The only problem is that as the smaller banks do, banks like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs will wind up snapping up assets as they've been bulked up by the fed's quantitative easing. That means that the this crisis will have increased and consolidated their power which gives continued credence to the entire idea of "too big to fail" and leaves all of us with the idea that our interests are aligned with theirs. In my opinion, that's not the case nor should it be.

True reform of the economy will mean that their power must be broken. I'm not suggesting that's without consequence, but it's the the thing that will save us. It's not like oligarchs haven't been thrown out on their asses before in the history of the nation. Someone just has to "have a set" and do it.

Black Diaspora said...

grinder said...
"Here is an interesting story about Harvard's financial troubles."

Thanks. It was interesting.

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