Thursday, January 10, 2008

"Poorly chosen words".



"On Friday during our golf broadcast, Nick Faldo and I were discussing Tiger's dominance in the golf world and I used some poorly chosen words. I have known Tiger for 12 years and I have apologized directly to him. I also apologize to our viewers who may have been offended by my comments."

"Poorly chosen words". It seems we have been having a lot of that lately.


"Lynch Tiger Woods in a back alley"?
Kelly, your little apology is nice, but you really shouldn't be apologizing to Tiger. Instead, you should be apologizing to all the relatives and ancestors to the black men who have been brutalized and lynched in this country, from Thomas Shipp to William Brown. When you trivialize something as abominable and inhumane as lynching, you set us all back 50 years, and you insult us all. Not just Tiger. Mr. Woods will be fine. Money fame and power makes it easy to forgive those who have wronged you. But I don't forgive you, because although these were just some "poorly chosen words" to you; the shit is personal to me.

So you will be back at work in two weeks and your ratings will probably go up, because more people know who you are now. You will be smarter the next time though, because you will know better than using "poorly chosen words" when speaking in public. You will remember that "poorly chosen words" should only be spoken in private.

66 comments:

Anonymous said...

I heard about this. "Some" (racist) people are claiming it's not racist and was taken out of context a la Don Imus. I don't know what context "being lynched in a back alley" should be taken in but there is one thing we should take out of all this is: that is one dumb woman.

Professor Tracey said...

Well said! Miss Kelly might get higher ratings, but she might get fired as well. Rev. Al is lurking around The Golf Channel threatening to unleash his minons. I just don't see Big Al settling for a front seat in Tiger's golf cart at the next Masters tourney.

field negro said...

"..but she might get fired"

Nope, I doubt it. She has already been suspended for two weeks. Besides, I think Tiger has forgiven her, so all is well.

"I just don't see Big Al settling for a front seat in Tiger's golf cart at the next Masters tourney."

I don't see Tiger having him :)

"... but there is one thing we should take out of all this is: that is one dumb woman."

I think careless is more like it.

Christopher Chambers said...

Field--stop playing the race card!!! hahahaha

before the mayflower said...

What disturbs me the most about her comments is that they're perceived to insult blacks only.

If racism is dead, a thing of the past, and we're all singing, "What the world needs now," shouldn't whites be as offended as blacks?

Where is their outrage?

Lionel Carter said...

Wow, lynch? Sge really said lynch? Had she chosen any other verb by which to jokingly murder Tiger by, this would not even mean a thing to me but lynch? People aren't lynched anymore so to use such a word is not poorly chosen it is carefully chosen and thought out joke against a black person. The joke would not even make any sense if said about any other race. It amazes me that some of the very same people that want the world to think that nooses are now funny wanted to boycott I am legend because Will Smith said that Hitler did not think of himself as a bad person. I try so hard to focus my efforts on our community moving forward in spite of the racism in the world but people like her really piss me off and make the job so much harder.

august said...

she is so beautiful on the outside yet so ugly on the inside!

I am not Star Jones said...

2008 is already shaping up to be a fantastic year for foot in the media's mouth disease.

And Mr. Woods has already forgiven her because they are such good friends.

I wonder if she said something untoward about his baby daughter would he have been so forgiving...

Black College Student said...

Personally, I think these comments are worse than what Don Imus said; if Imus gets fired for sayin "nappy headed hos", then she should have been fired too. My problem is that, even though Tiger accepted the apology, there's no outrage.

It actually reminds me of something that happened to me at school. Let me set the stage: I go to a small college in northwest Arkansas and out of about 500 people, only 10-15 are black (our current count is at 13).

A snowstorm hit and we were out of school for the day, so some friends and I had a snowball fight, during which the girlfriend of a friend of mine walked across the quad. I tagged her with a snowball and she angrily walked into her boyfriend's dorm hall. About 10 minutes later, she walks back out and says "My boyfriend's gonna lynch you." I then stated that that was a pretty racist comment, and she mumbled something under her breath that I couldn't hear (which was probably more racist than saying I was gonna get lynched [pure speculation].) My friend and I made jokes about it, but needless to say, I don't talk to or associate myself with that person. It would've been cool if she said killed instead of lynched, but when you use that word, you show your true intentions. Tieghmann showed her true intentions, even though she has people like Michael Wilbon defending her on TV.

brran1 said...

Suspension...yea that'll do the trick. She apologized but she should have known better and she should have known not to say that. I could only imagine if a black person main a statement like that towards a white person on a majority white network. They'd never work in this solar system again. smh

NSangoma said...

~
Take it for what it is, a probe of enemy lines.

Imus, Goldberg, Tilghman, et alia
`

New Black Woman said...

I wonder if she had any immediate regret for saying what she said or is she now regretting it because it's been publicized.

I'm certain it's the latter.

WNG said...

How stupid do you have to be for shit like to happen? Our standards are low enough. We honestly aren't asking people not to BE rascist on TV (or in print, on the radio, et al) we're just asking them not to APPEAR rascist. Not too hard. She should be fired for pure idiocy.

WNG said...

1. Sorry I can't spell.
2. Damn Field, this is the second time you've made me post on one of your posts.

Christopher said...

Lynch Tiger Woods in a back alley.

You really have to wonder what kind of fucking idiot would say something like this to a group of people for whom the symbol and the history of "lynching" is as culturally charged as it is?

How would this bitch like it if someone said the best way to shut her up is to subject her to a gang rape and them slit her throat?

Would she be laughing then? I seriouly don't think so.

This dumb broad shouldn't be suspended -- she should be fired.

janine said...

Christopher, you know, I like you. You always come with some salient point.

The white-privilege police come so hard and so quick on this stuff, always calling "oversensitive" and "race card" that sometimes it's actually difficult not to second-guess oneself.

But, yes, clearly this was a racial remark, which, I believe, signaled more about her subconscious thoughts toward Tiger than her conscious ones. Not that she, or anyone else, will examine it.

But flip it around, ask if some male commentator joked about raping her to stop her success, and there is no question what would happen.

I don't really care if she's fired or not, though. In some ways, it's a distraction: white America lets itself off easy by casting out these kind of folks. Then it can pat itself on the back and say, "Okay, got rid of THE racist. Now, on to business as usual."

Still: in an insipid world, reading you folks does my heart good, I tell ya.

Exodus Mentality said...

Go read "The Space Traders' Solution" by Derrick Bell and then contemplate which way Miss Tilghman would vote concerning Tiger in that scenario. Then you might realize that these were not simply poorly chosen words. These are expressions of solidarity with a global system of white supremacy that is imbedded in the hearts and minds of all people who choose to classify themselves as white. Continue to believe that they are changing or that this is a non-issue at your own peril.

southern girl said...

Suspension = paid vacation. That'll teach her!!!

Mes Deux Cents said...

Hi FN,

I think many people who are in the public eye have learned that one of the best ways to become well known is to say something crazy about Black people.

I'm sure Imus' Q rating went through the roof after his remarks. And for how long afterward to people talk about Bill O’Reilly's Sylvia's restaurant remarks.

Yep, you want to get some attention say something bad about those African Americans.

The so-called punishments that are doled out are, except in extreme cases, very light. So the benefit to the career seems to out weigh the temporary firings, suspensions, etc.

Christopher said...

Janine,

I like you too.

You write,

white America lets itself off easy by casting out these kind of folks. Then it can pat itself on the back and say, "Okay, got rid of THE racist. Now, on to business as usual."

So what is the appropriate remedy?

I just think people -- be they Don Anus or Kelly Klangirl, don't belong on TV, receiving a salary paid by corporate sponsors.

It sends a terrible message to the larger society that threatening to lynch someone, be they famous like Tiger or not in the public eye, is OK. It's not OK and if she returns to the air, this white, gay liberal will fire off a complaint letter to the CEO of the Golf Channel.

La ~ msviswan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
La ~ msviswan said...

"Nope, I doubt it. She has already been suspended for two weeks. Besides, I think Tiger has forgiven her, so all is well. "

Yes field, his wife and her family may have told him to do so.

janine said...

Christopher,

I agree the woman has no place in the public eye.

My question is whether running these folks out of town on a rail doesn't prevent the larger society from questioning where these "slips" come from. They can just tsk-tsk her racism and leave their own, leave society's, utterly untouched.
It's naive and ridiculous, I know; but I just sometimes wish that instead of getting bogged down in a fire her/defend her spat, Americans could step back and say, "Wow, what she said was so clearly racist, and taking her at her word that she didn't mean it consciously can ONLY mean she has absorbed some serious racist indoctrination. Maybe so have I. Maybe so have we all (including black folks, who internalize this stuff all the time). Hmmm. Maybe I should look at this."

Having racist thoughts in America is no crime, really. How could you not? The crime is in refusing to acknowledge how one has been influenced by a racist system, and doing the hard work of rooting it out.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what kind of outrage there would have been if she had said a jewish golfer should be thrown in an oven.

Christopher said...

Janine,

Very good points all.

I want to think, I want to believe, we've moved beyond this shit but it's clear we haven't.

One of my peeves is how the MSM is addicted to the "missing white woman" story. They just can't get enough of them. I have an ethic that all missing women, missing men and missing kids, have value and they matter. Yet, the media ignores people of color who go missing and elevate missing white women.

Like they're the cultural queens.

It just ain't right, in my opinion.

La ~ msviswan said...

Anonymous said...
"I wonder what kind of outrage there would have been if she had said a Jewish golfer should be thrown in an oven."

Oh, we all know what that outcome would have been like. We would have heard about it more than Brittney and the Presidential caucuses.

Well, I am equally disappointed with Woods either way, then again he's a "couccoblabolincalinan" (or some stupid shit like that), remember he's not even a black man. Why should he take it personal.

I'm just waiting to hear DL and Wayans come out with their concur to Tilghman's statement... like they did with Imus's.

guerreiranigeriana said...

insightful words from janine...very insightful...especially the part about it being no crime to have racist thoughts when living in a racist regime such as the us...

...frankly, i am tired of hearing about the new racist comment of the week about black people made by whites and then the expectations to be outraged and riot or march on the streets...we all know that the remorse is only that the 'carefully chosen words' were spoken in the 'poorly chosen place'...

...the attempts at distracting us are really nice (i'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist)...yippee...another racist rears his/her head...well, i'm going to focus my outrage into trying to figure out how to rebuild homes in no so that those 'lynchable niggers' can have a place to live in the meantime...or try to figure out how to stop corruption in nigeria so i can move there...or educating myself on what's really going on in iraq...or some other more pressing issue...

...i think these are strategic incidents/slips of the tongue to incite race rifts so that bush can do what his real plan is...

Bellini said...

good point FN about the ancestral significance, we just have to ban together and inform folks this is unacceptable -- and not lose our ground when they undermine us by calling us oversensitive.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Usually firing someone for making such statements sends the message:

"Thou shalt not mess with thy profits, especially if it means boycott."

If girlfriend's remarks means the PGA takes another hit in profits, she will get the axe.

Otherwise, she just got a paid vacation. However, if she's forced to take too many "paid vacations" it might end up in her getting the boot, but, like Tom DeLay, she'll resurface elsewhere.

When action is taken that hurts and sends the message that your bullshyt will not be tolerated, under ANY CIRMCUMSTANCES, maybe people like this woman will get the message.

RedLipstick said...

I guess she didn't catch all those "noose" incidents last year.

Villager said...

I must have been on Mars as I didn't hear about this story until today. Personally, I think she should be fired from the public airwaves as I think her choice of words was totally unacceptable.

If she had 'chuckled' about his opponents going out to 'gas him in the alley' to a Jewish golfer ... would it all be washed away with a 2-week suspension? I think not!

btw, I just now saw the Tyra photo in your sidebar. Dayum!

peace, Villager

Mike said...

Let's see, how funny would it have been if she had some comment about Olympic Gymnast Kerri Strug, an inductee in the Jewish Sports Hall of Fame?

Something like, "Hey folks, the only way those Russians are going to beat Kerri is if they gang up on her, throw her into a gas chamber and then burn her body in an oven".

Yeah man, ain't that really funny?

tryexcellence said...

Majority of folks -- black and white -- have announced their displeasure with the comment.

When is Tiger going to be offended by ugly comments like this? He dismissed Foozy Zeller's comment about having a fried chicken dinner after he won his first big golf tournament (sorry don't know what it's called), and now he excuses this lady's abhorent comment. I think he said that they are friends. We'll my friends don't joke about lynching me. I don't understand.

field negro said...

"When is Tiger going to be offended by ugly comments like this? "

Never! Tiger has chosenn sides. He can't turn back now.

"Damn Field, this is the second time you've made me post on one of your posts."

wng, I hope you keep posting. We are just a bunch of field and honorary field Negroes sitting around the plantation and talking to each other. Every now and then someone comes outside from the house to join us :)

Seattle Slim said...

Tiger Woods is an idiot. I have no problem with him claiming all of his ancestry equally, but him not taking the opportunity to educate the public and his stupid little blondie friend over there, was cowardly. Whatever! My kids won't come out that damned "tragic." I'll be damned.

Do I think she is a card-holding member of Stormfront or the Klan? Not necessarily. But her brand of stupidity and ignorance irritates me more than anything because it's BLATANT! BLATANT that she was a moron before and that's why she picked such "poorly chosen words."

I maintain that if the majority would stop, for once, and learn about the other cultures that have BEEN here with them from JUMP none of this would happen..........

She's a bonehead and nothing more.

willis said...

From comments on the story over at about.com.


http://golf.about.com/b/2008/01/09/report-no-disciplinary-action-for-tilghman-over-lynch-comment.htm



"I don’t see any difference in the behavior of those calling for Tilghman’s head for making her comment, and other extremists calling for the heads of the cartoonists who dared to draw images of a religious figure"


I replied to this trash `cause it pissed me off;

Its more than an "insensitive remark". It's personal and a very racist remark and as long as we accept excuses for using it, we're condoning it.

Woozie said...

I don't think anybody knows what the fuck she was thinking. Like Miss Teen South Carolina, except offensive.

Anonymous said...

A white co-worker of mine remarked that back in her family history, one of her relatives was lynched (In the time of the old west, for a crime he didn't commit). I've read a little about the history of lynching, and a lot of white people have been lynched. Not as many as blacks, but it was a significant number. So when white people try to make a joke out of lynching, I have to wonder at their ignorance of history. For all we know, one of their ancestors could have been hung from a noose.

Anonymous said...

La misvswan said" "Well, I am equally disappointed with Woods either way, then again he's a "couccoblabolincalinan" (or some stupid shit like that),"

---------------------------------

LOL!!

To anonymous 10:12 pm. Please stop with the white excuses.

baatin. said...

look, tiger HAD NO CHOICE in the matter. what could he have said? what would it have cost him? some people just cannot afford to get involved in these issues. i'm sure his first reaction was prolly, "aw, fuuuuck! now i have to say something about THIS SHIT? don't forget that tiger's a HUGE fan of racial and racist jokes (google the shit). she probably makes these jokes with him no problem, and just got caught up. honestly seems like a genuine mistake and apology to me. she's done this for YEARS and has NEVER been accused of anything like this. if you ever liusten to her telecasts (i watch golf maniacally) she's ALWAYS on tiger's jock. ALWAYS. she apologised WAAAAY before this shit blew up, and in a way, almost made i bigger than it was. i am one of the few black people out there who would really like to see her out there on sunday, calling the tournaments.

baatin. said...

that being said, it's really sad that such phrases can roll so easily out of the mouth of a professional broadcaster, on tv for millions to watch. one can only imagine what kinds of things are said behind closed doors (see dog bounty hunter). ever wondered what they're saying when you cut them off on the highway?

Saitia said...

I'm sure all the people who are outraged over this woman's public stupidity have never themselves been the source of any inadvertent or intentional stupid, or racist remarks; otherwise they might have experienced the shame and humility around their own stupidity, and the gratitude when their parents— or peers— were noble enough to actually forgive them for their mistakes. . . not once, but seventy times seven, thereby teaching them the true and divine value of forgiveness.

Yes, perhaps she should lose her job behind this mistake. She has earned a real wake-up call. And just maybe we should all learn to be noble enough to use the Golden Rule— and forgive— just as we would like to be forgiven; and save our real righteous indignation and outrage for those who respect no one, and show it through their actual deeds; like spilling our children's blood for oil.

Anonymous said...

Must add one thing to your Post Field, black women were lynched also....
Read ’Of these, one was a woman’: the lynching of African American women, 1885-1946 / by Marie Rose Johnson

Julie said...

Uh, don't think anon at 10:12 was making excuses for whites. The white people who make light of lynching do so because it's the most prominant symbol of white brutality against blacks. They know they will strike a nerve by doing so. I think this person was wondering if white people think about the fact that their own have also been lynched. My answer to that would be no. They think lynching is something done only to blacks.

My reaction to the "noose" and the "lynching" incidents was to start doing more research about
the subject. I learned some interesting things. Among them:

"Contrary to present-day popular conception, lynching was not a crime committed exclusively against Black people. During the nineteenth century a significant minority of the lynching victims were white. Between the 1830s and the 1850s the majority of those lynched in the United States were whites. Although a substantial number of white people were victims of this crime, the vast majority of those lynched, by the 1890s and after the turn of the century, were Black people. Actually, the pattern of almost exclusive lynching of Negroes was set during the Reconstruction period. According to the Tuskegee Institute statistics for the period covered in this study, the total number of Black lynching victims was more than two and one-half times as many as the number of whites put to death by lynching."

--The Negro Holocaust: Lynching and Race Riots in the United States,1880-1950

Reading about this stuff makes me angry, but it puts me in a better place than all the people who try to make a joke out of it.

Miss Profe said...

When are White people going to learn that they can't just say whatever they want, in a public forum, and not go unnoticed?

I guess she did not hear about Imus.

Anonymous said...

miss profe, don't think people like Imus and Ms, Tilghman will ever learn. It's become casual to make fun of atrocity. I think it's an indication of how some people are sick in their soul. It's an indication of the lack of standards. People have condoned this behavior, and left it unchecked for too long. When Ann Coulter made fun of the 9-11 widows, it didn't surprise me. When people stand outside the funerals of soliders and shout that they are going to hell, it doesn't surprise me. The noose incidents and the lynching comments don't surprise me either.

Mario said...

Poor, poor choice of words, but let's not read too much into this. If I were to act on every racially inappropriate comment in my workplace of everyday life I'd blow a gasket.

I saw the youtube video and I don't see anything hateful in her words. She's just stupid, just like Imus.

field negro said...

"..Yes, perhaps she should lose her job behind this mistake."

"saitia", I am not calling for her job. I actually want people like her to bbe exposed. I love it when some people in the majority forget the rules, and blurt out what they think in private to the public at large.

anon. 3:05 AM,thanks for the history lesson. You are so right about black women being lynched, and I should not have limited my post to black men. I should have said black "people".

julie, thanks for dropping some knowledge on me as well.

anon.2:41PM the things you said don't surprise me either, and that's what scares me :(

Luv said...

Personally, I don't think she's racist per se, I just believe she's young and galactically stupid.

She just didn't realize the weight of the word "lynch" when associated with blacks.

Not an excuse, but a reason. She's too stupid to be on television.

Dragon Horse said...

Field....check yourself!

Tiger has not chosen sides, the fact is he has not chosen YOUR SIDE.

Tiger never said he was not "black" he said he was not "all black".

Here is the reality.

If you live in a town that is 90% white and most of them are pure racist and they routinely tell you to your face you are an ignorant lowbrow ni---r and only fit to clean their shows and mop some floors" is that the self identity you assume?

The one drop rule was created and enforced by whites for the benefit of whites. The idea that blacks are any kind of muts you can imagine and whites are "pure" so it is racist on its base. Black people did not create this idea or ask for this to be enforced.

Point at hand is that if let another group define you then you have already admitted inferiority.

Whites don't judge their whiteness by what you or I think of them. Why is it Tiger should judge his blackness by what some racist white person may think?

That is insane. That does not mean you should be blind to the world. You might live in that 90% white racist town and known what the white think of you but that does not mean you accept that definition.


I know Asian people who love Tiger Woods and praise him. Thailand offered him Thai citizenship.

If they can be proud, although he never said one time he was Thai or Asian (just like he never said he was just black) then why can't you.

Check yourself bro.

field negro said...

"Field....check yourself!

Tiger has not chosen sides, the fact is he has not chosen YOUR SIDE.

Tiger never said he was not "black" he said he was not "all black"."

Huh? "not all black" WTF does that mean? News flash for Tiger: In the mind of every white A-merry-can in this country your ass IS black. Don't let all the money and the fame fool you. Let your wife come up missing and you don't have a good alibi and watch how far that love takes you. Da fuck? "not all black"? Are you kidding me?

Now I love the guy's golf game and all, because I fancy myself a golfer myself (albeit a weekend hacker.Even though I bet my 20 hndcp will beat many of the HN out there ) but spare me.

Not chosen MY side? And what side is that? Sorry, his father chose MY side for him.

I checked myself, now Tiger needs to do the same.

Dragon Horse said...

So lets break this down to the foundation.

What you are saying is that you determine your blackness by what white people think? If a white man says you are "black" then you are black. If you tell a man he is white then he is white because a black man says so? If it does not work the other way then you are saying the white man controls you and defines you.

Wow.

In other words you support the one-drop rule made by racist whites to oppress people for their benefit. As you know no black politician in the late 1800's to early 1900's passed any legislation defining who was black or who could marry who, what children would be considered, etc. That was all whites. Do you think they did that to benefit blacks?

How do you rationalize that and not consider yourself a house negro?

If all black people had your opinion we would still be share cropping in the South or sweeping floors in a factory.

This us verse them attitude is what whites wanted from the beginning if you don't see how that benefits THEM then you need to check your history because they sure did.

Exodus Mentality said...

"So lets break this down to the foundation. What you are saying is that you determine your blackness by what white people think?"

Amazing! dragon horse broke it down to the foundation and then completely missed the fact thast he did it.

Of course your being black is a purely white conception. But try not to think of it in terms of individual or small groups of whtie people. Think of it in terms of a systemic group dynamic, developed over a long period of time.

There were no Black people until white people created the concept. The fact that the concepts of black people and white people exist at all is 100% attributable to white people. The fact that these are the only two such designations that exist in the history of human experience is another intentional condition imposed by the group of people who classify themselves as white. I defy you to rationally deconstruct any of the above statements.

Now how exactly does it diminish me to recognize that simple basic fact? Does it necessarily mean that I let white people define and control me? No it does not. It means that I understand the reality of the world I was born into. I understand that there is a group of people who classify themselves as white, who have achieved and maintained a level of societal dominence over the group of people they choose to classify as non-white, on a global scale, in all areas of human experience.

Understand that does not mean that individual white people are superior or dominant over any individual black people. I know that's where you vehemently want to deny my logic. Those individual relationship dynamics are superfluous in the context of the overall power dynamic that can be verified by a simple observation of the conditions in the world today.

Recognizing this I can either accept the status quo that white people would impose or I can work to overcome the system that perpetuates that status quo. Just because someone wants to keep you in a subservient position does not mean you have to accept it. That is exactly why we are not slaves and sharecroppers today. At least not in the sense you meant.

But if you absolutely refuse to recognize that the group of people who classify themselves as white most certainly do not have your best interests at heart, then you are putting blinders on yourself and assisting them in the process. Not recognizing this puts you in a position of forever thinking that there is some other rationale to expain why the concepts of black and white people exist and why the power dynamics between those groups almost universally favor those who classify themselves as white. You will continue to chase your tail because there is no other rationale.

field negro said...

"In other words you support the one-drop rule made by racist whites to oppress people for their benefit. As you know no black politician in the late 1800's to early 1900's passed any legislation defining who was black or who could marry who, what children would be considered, etc. That was all whites. Do you think they did that to benefit blacks?"

No I don't support it, but I understand what it was meant to do. Which sadly, is something you don't choose to do.

"If a white man says you are "black" then you are black. If you tell a man he is white then he is white because a black man says so? If it does not work the other way then you are saying the white man controls you and defines you."

No, I think the white man controls and defines anyone who has a problem with being called black. I hope the white man says I am black, because that's what and who I am.

I am not sure what race you belong to, but I would hope you feel the same sense of pride about yourself that I do about who I am. It's not about letting others define you, it's about understanding the nature of the racial construct in this country and the thought process of those who try fo define it. Notice I said TRY to define it.

"Now how exactly does it diminish me to recognize that simple basic fact? Does it necessarily mean that I let white people define and control me? No it does not. It means that I understand the reality of the world I was born into. I understand that there is a group of people who classify themselves as white, who have achieved and maintained a level of societal dominence over the group of people they choose to classify as non-white, on a global scale, in all areas of human experience."

EM pretty much sums it up with that quote as well. If you still don't get it.....well, hey, we will have to just respectfully agree to disagree.

Dragon Horse said...

Exodus Mentality:

It is not a systemic group dynamics developed over a long period of time.

In this nation before Reconstructions there was no universal definition of "black" or "white". Jews and Italians were not white in 1880. Irish were not white in 1860. Mulattoes in South Carolina and Louisiana were not "black" before the early 1900's. I can tell you the year and day my family in Louisiana became "black" according to the law. It was during Reconstruction. One day my family were "colored" in the Louisiana context, next day some white man didn't like that too many mulattoes and blacks were competing with them so decided that anyone with any black ancestry known was black. That included a lot of 'white' people in Louisiana . Some of my family disappeared at that time and no one knows where they went. They "passed" likely.

What they did and why this benefited racist is simple. If white is pure (or appears pure) and marrying blacks and having children only makes them black what you do is create a situation where whites are forced to segregate from blacks. It also forces a situation where someone who is part black will claim his white parents status but also have sympathy for the black situation. Instead of that person being a bridge between communities you force them into one community and isolate them from another. The effect is obvious. It protects white privileged. White privileged being only "pure" or nearly pure whites with no know black relatives can have the power and status we have. This locks blacks out and creates us vs them, when we are obviously the minority.

If you create that situation we can not win and never will because we are not the majority who has the majority of economic and political power. The idea of 'white racial purity" is 100% necessary to maintain white supremacy. Why do you think Hitler was so concerned with "racial hygiene"? He did not want anyone married to a Jew, part Jew, or liked Jews around to be in any power position. He always wanted it know that we are German and they are them and any mixing puts you with them, not us Germans.

The rest of what you said is neither here nor there. You can recognize a system and not personally buy into it or justify it by playing along.

If you don't deconstruct "whiteness" you never win because in the end it comes down to white v everyone else. In this nation anyway.

Field:

Is Sean Paul black in Jamaica?

Don't speak in riddles? What was it meant to do and what do I not "choose to do"?


"No, I think the white man controls and defines anyone who has a problem with being called black."

That is because you are assuming someone is "running" from being black because they feel it is a "mark" on them. That tells me you have a twisted way of thinking about your own identity. Not everyone is sitting around self hating all day long.

This is like saying..."well if a person is half Asian/black and they don't want to be called black they must be self hating and have a problem with black people.

Field you are a trial lawyer and I guessing you had a pretty good LSAT score and you didn't get that with logic that weak. I don't believe that; you know better. What are the other reasons that person would not want to be considered just black? You can't think of any? Really? Think along the lines of ethnicity and not race...that might help you. Forget about white people for a minute. Think about the family dynamic. Why would someone in that situation not just want to be called "black" from an ethnic perspective? Have you ever thought that someone like Tiger feels like he would be saying "screw you and your culture mom, the white man says I'm black, not Thai...screw all that other Asian crap...you were just a baby maker for the black man." Have you ever thought of African American as an ethnicity?

You probably have not because pan-Africanism helps you as you are the son of immigrants. "We all black" because if not "I'm not one of you, so what am I"?

There is a race and their is ethnicity. In America confuse the two.

African Americans, for me are an ethnicity. We have our own history and traditions. I don't consider African or Carribean immigrants "us" unless their children acculturate to "our culture". This does not mean they are not black...they are, but in this country we use African American/black simultaneously when they are not the same thing anymore...that time has passed due to immigration.
Tiger is the product of TWO cultures. African American and Thai (well his mother is part Thai/Chinese but grew up in Thailand). So for him to say "I'm black" implies pretty strongly that one culture should dominate because the white man and some black nationalist say so for their own racialist game. That to me is sick.

Tiger is a man and stands up and says "I don't accept your system of racialism and I'm not playing that game...this is how I define me..."

Field...I am an African American, but at the same time I feel pride in myself that is not due to "racialism" but due to who I am and what my family has accomplished. I don't feel pride being born a certain color and I know that is what you are getting at. I find that to be part of the problem, that is a mirror image of the white racist who is "proud of his race". Race is made up as a system to divide and control people in order to keep an elite in power. Think about it this way? The KKK was full of poor white trash, most of them were being directed by elite whites in the White Citizens Council and other such groups who were bankrolling it. Basically whites of privileged played poor white trash off against poor blacks to maintain their own power and then turn around and call the same whites were were killing for them "trash". They were trash but at least they weren't "kneegrow" so we will give them the "white card" as a handout and treat them a little better than kneegrow. That is still the game in 2008.

You can understand the dynamic all you want but if the game was not made for you playing it can only benefit one group. It is like going to Vegas...the odds are always in the House's favor because they define the rules.

As I said before. If you live in a town full of racist who think you are a dumb kneegrow it might behoove you to understand that dynamic quickly as it could mean your life.

That does not in anyway mean you allow those folks to define you because you understand the obstacles. Those are two different things.

In my opinion you have bought hook line and sinker into racialism and that is exactly what white racist want because they know they can always win that game. You have done nothing to deconstruct their position of power, based on racialism.

Or what is the other way to win? What you are looking at is indefinite perpetual struggle against demographics we will never have.

So either you are happy with indefinite racial struggle in a country we will never have the majority in or you should put your picture up after you get done with Tiger Woods.

field negro said...

"Is Sean Paul black in Jamaica?"

Well since you asked; yes he is. In fact, Sean Paul will tell you that he is black first and Jamaican second. Bob Marley who was the product of a mixed marriage --just like your boy Tiger would have also told you that he was black. So I am not sure of the point you are trying to make.

"African Americans, for me are an ethnicity. We have our own history and traditions. I don't consider African or Carribean immigrants "us" unless their children acculturate to "our culture"'

That statement right there makes it hard to even have a logical discussion about race with you. And it is telling about your mind set.

"That is because you are assuming someone is "running" from being black because they feel it is a "mark" on them. That tells me you have a twisted way of thinking about your own identity. Not everyone is sitting around self hating all day long."

"Self hating"? OK, whatever. But trust me there my friend, self and hate are two words that don't go together in my vocab :) In fact, I have been accused of loving myself a little too much. But I think I get what you are trying to say. You are parroting that tried and true line that conservatives and blacks who think they have arrived try to use to make themselves feel more important about themselves.

Your Vegas analogy is quite wrong. I have quite a few chips to play against the house, and I can last in the game quite a long time. Trust me, I can play that game too. It's just that unlike you, I choose not to. That's the problem with your thinking. You obviously think that some black folks who think like I do depend on the house (to stay with your analogy) to keep us going. We don't. We are striving to have our own game with our own chips. Not depending on the chips the house gives us.

But your comments to EM told me some things that helped me tounderstand where you are coming from. (My wife is from Opelousas, LA. ) and I have spent quite a bit of time in the "boot". I will leave it at that.

"In my opinion you have bought hook line and sinker into racialism and that is exactly what white racist want because they know they can always win that game. You have done nothing to deconstruct their position of power, based on racialism."

So your solution is to assimilate with them? And what happens to MY race then? Sorry, I think I will just stick this "racialist" thing out ;)

Admiral Komack said...

"Let your wife come up missing and you don't have a good alibi and watch how far that love takes you."

-Well, Nancy Grace will love you, because her ratings will go thru the roof as she disses the Tiger on air.

BlackMamba said...

Why shouldn't she have to aplogize to all the whites who were lynched? 'Lynch' isn't an exclusively white-on-black crime. Read some history of the Wild West.

Old Al's got you by the cajones, too - he wants you to watch him make you think he's helping blacks by his extortion. He's out of business if blacks finally figure out that it's got to come from within. Blaming whitey is so, so... Sharpton and Jackson. And 20th century. Look around, bros - it aint helping you, but it's make Al & Jesse rich.

Exodus Mentality said...

Dragon you continue to hit the nail on the head and still completely miss the point.

How does the fact that the system grew and changed evidence that that the system does not exist? I'm not citing chapter and verse evidence of it's existence and development because I have found that as long as you are operating from faulty logic when you discuss racsim/WS, no amount of evidence will sway you.

Your logic is basically that it's not a system that was developed over time because a facet of the system, the categories of black and white, did not come into nearly universal acceptance until the late 1600's. I can assure you that there were laws written in America well before Reconstruction that clearly categorized people as black and white. And you are absolutely correct that various groups have been granted entry into the "white" club. That shows that the classification of white is a manufactured construct; that is manipulated to achieve it's desired effect. And what is that effect?

"The effect is obvious. It protects white privileged" -Dragon

Again Bravo. That is exactly correct. And for some reason you think you can dismantle a system designed and perpetuated to protect white privilege by convincing yourself that black and white don't exist or don't matter. Don't be ridiculous. All that does is ensure that you won't be one of the people demanding that white priviledge be dismantled. You'll simply be trying to fit into something that you can never be a part of.

Last, but most certainly not least, you are entirely wrong when you think of people of color as a minority. Melaninated skin is a genetically dominent trait, shared by the vast majority of the world's population to varying degrees. The absence of melanin, the compound that causes skin color, is a genetic recessive trait. Whenever and wherever these genes are mixed, the dominent trait will surface in the offspring. The fact that melaninated people around the world are subject to the economic and socio-political dominence of people who have little or no melanin is something you recognize but really don't understand. So you persist in the belief that somehow I am the one perpetuating the "us vs. them" dynamic. You can't deconstruct whiteness unless you understand it.

before the mayflower said...

FN Said:
"No, I think the white man controls and defines anyone who has a problem with being called black. I hope the white man says I am black, because that's what and who I am."

My sentiments exactly.

Although my color would belie my blackness, my heart, my soul, and my mind are in total agreement on who and what I am--black.

I pity those (yes, even Tiger) who have a fragmented sense of self.

Call me black! I don't give a shit what the white man thinks. When I did, I was pretty fucked up!

Now, I could do a Tiger thing and draw racial lines all over the place, but to what purpose, to deceive myself as to how I'm perceived in this society.

If they think I'm going to hate black, because they perceive me as such, hell, I'm going to like it all the more.

If you call that permitting the white man to define me, then so be it. I still think it's the healthiest stance for me.

That way, I don't forget who the enemy is.

Anonymous said...

The more this kind of shit goes by unopposed, the more it sets new terms for what's acceptable in society. Lynching in the language and empty nooses hanging are the precursors to lynching for real and necks in those nooses. Is anybody paying attention to the racist march happening on MLK day in Jena? (Where the white racists are demanding: jail the Jena 6, end MLK holiday, down with communism; calling on people to display nooses and are suing the city of Jena for not allowing them to march with weapons...). Can we start organizing buses to go back to Jena to oppose and confront this??
Check out the article:

http://revcom.us/a/116/jena-en.html
"KKKluckers with NOOSES
marching on MLK Day
in Jena, unopposed?
NO WAY!"

field negro said...

Anon.9:04PM, I didn't know that. Thanks for the update! You are right, we should probably organize a counter march. Amazing!

Anonymous said...

In the wake of inflammatory comments made by Golf Channel analyst Kelly Tilghman about Tiger Woods, Golfweek's Jan. 19 issue featured a controversial cover of a noose, which led to the firing Thursday of the magazine's editor Dave Seanor.

...just a little update.

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