"Hey Field why haven't you mentioned anything about the mudering[sic] SOBs who are supposedly God's people. "
I take it Phil4Real is referring to the Jews and the Jewish state of Israel.
We all now by now what has been going on in Gaza. The Israelis have launched a bombing campaign supposedly against Hamas which has killed over 290 Palestinians, and as I write this they are preparing for a possible ground assault. Israel blames Hamas for instigating the conflict by launching rocket attacks into Southern Israel. Attacks which Israel claims have killed Israeli civilians. As a result, they seem hell bent on destroying Hamas once and for all.
Now many of you who read this blog know that I am a big defender of Israel. I am one of the few so called black progressives who have constantly defended the Israeli people and their right to be able to live in peace. I won't get into the long history of this conflict because that is not the point of this post. But needless to say that Hamas is funded by the Iranians, and they have vowed to destroy Israel and everyone in it. So I don't blame Israel for wanting to go after Hamas.
Still, there is an issue of proportionality here. It's no secret that some civilian targets have been bombed (Including the Islamic University in Gaza), and that is troubling, even for a supporter of Israel such as myself.
But what is almost just as troubling has been the reaction to this latest Middle East conflict by the President and President elect. Treating it like a hot potato won't help the situation, and it certainly won't make it go away.
The frat boy has a few weeks left before his miserable presidency comes to an end, and he is just trying to ride out his last remaining days at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. The O man isn't much better; he is just praying that this thing goes away before he takes office. Did you hear his boy, David Axelrod, on "Meet The Press"? Talk about moonwalking. "But we've said repeatedly through this transition period that there's only one president at a time, and President (George W) Bush speaks for the United States of America until January 20th, and we're going to honor that moving forward." Translated: We are going to leave this Middle East shit alone, because it is way too hot to handle right now. But I am sorry O man, you can't do that. And how do you look trying to play low key now when you said the following back in July? “If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that. And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.” Sooo does that mean that you believe that Israel has a right to defend itself? Come on man, speak up.
O man you better get used to this stuff. It's not going to get any easier. You can't just put this foreign policy stuff in Hillary's hands and tell her to do her thing. You had better become the world leader that you seem to want to be. You are admired and loved on the world stage, so try and use your bully pulpit to the best of your ability to try and bring peace to that region.
Notice I said "try". Because many of your predecessors thought they could get a handle on this Middle East thing only to be in for a rude awakening. A shaky truce between Israel and Egypt which cost Anwar Sadat his life is the best we could do so far.
Anyway, once again, the Middle East is on the brink of an all out war. And it looks like his O ness will have to deal with it whether he likes it or not when he takes office. Obama has big plans for his domestic agenda, but his foreign policy is going to have to be a priority as well. We don't expect him to save the world, especially not in that region. The division and hatred runs too deep. It's so deep that not even the "Magic Negro" can say abracadabra and make it go away. But he will have to try something. He might not be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat, but a real cool card trick would be nice.
77 comments:
If the Israelis keep killing 300 Gaza Palestinians for every 5 Israelis killed by Hamas rockets, it's easy to calculate who's coming out ahead at the end.
I concur with your observations. Obama needs to get a handle on this situation before it is totally out of control.
Carl Cowart.
Field,
I find it hard to feel sorry for Hamas. They place their weapons in schools, churches, hospitals, apartment buildings and yes universities. If you expect the Israelis to go door to door and get slaughtered, I don't think so. How many would die if there urban war in Philadelphia or Colorado Springs? I find it very hard to believe Israel has did 120 plus air strikes just to murder people. It's not the fourth of July so why did Hamas fire 100 rockets into Israel to start with? Why isn't Israel bombing Jordon and Egypt? Because they are trying to get along? They aren't telling Israel and the world we are going to kill all you Jews. Israel has made concession after concession and what has Hamas conceded? I'll save you the trouble, nothing! You tell Hamas to move their weapons out of civilian areas and you will see less death. If someone starts blasting your home in Philly, your family is in danger and the police do nothing, what are you going to do? Down here in Colorado Springs we grab a piece and head outside!
Just something to think about.
Field maybe you can help me or anyone else out there can chime in. What is the connection with black people and Israel and are there many black defenders of Israel? I have a aunt who whenever she prays EVERYTIME she prays prays for the peace of Jerusalem and for the Israelis. I remember I asked her why see did this - never peace for Africa to cure the AIDS crisis or peace for the children living in Haiti who have to deal with rebels and coups...you get my point. If the roles where reverse I couldn't imagine Jews doing this for us. Heck there are many white jews who are racists against jews of color so what does that say?
I know I'm rambling but whats with black people defending Israel when there doesn't appear to be a significant alliance between blacks and Jews (and YES I know about the whole civil rights movement thing} what else besides that have we worked together on?
Thanks! :-)
we knew this would happen after hamas were voted in in a west sanctioned free and democratic election.. the shock, horror and gasps around the world were deafening...the west and israel have cut theses people off because they didn't vote 'the right way'.. am not defending hamas.. but someone needs to ease of the crippling sanctions imposed after the elections... israel may win the physical war but not the war on hearts and minds of the arab nations..
Do you think the complete closing off of the Palestinians from the outside world is OK? Our Middle East policies are terribly one-sided. Are you familiar with the USS Liberty incident? As a war veteran, I am upset that this has not been addressed. Our support of Israel at all costs is not making us safer. The Gaza conflict will actually benefit Iran. Read the book, "The Devil We Know" to find out how we have been suckered in by Iran and how they are winning. When I was in Iraq, I saw first hand how our attitudes and policies were headed in the wrong direction. Why do we support Israel? Perhaps it's because of Judeo-Christian ties. Perhaps its because the Jews need to be in their place for the end times per the Revelations; we certainly want to make sure that prophecy is fullfilled. Having traveled to the Middle East and talking to a whole bunch of Arabs and Muslims, I have a different perspective on these events. No, I don't condone terrorist acts. But I feel we should dig deeper in to what causes one to become a terrorist? Why would a group of people vote them in to political power? Whenever the oppressed get neglected and deprived of basic services, they tend to gravitate to anyone who will stand up for them. The timing of the violence on both sides is significant. Who violated the cease fire? Depends on who you ask. We can't reach an agreement if we continue to send mixed signals to the Middle East.
The Fateful Cover Up
By Paul Findley
Israel’s war crimes against the USS Liberty and its crew on June 8, 1967—midway in the Six-Day War between Israel and Arab states—provoked a startling, profound U.S. response, a cover up that marked the beginning of America’s 38 years of Israel- centric foreign policies. It became a costly, radical turn for the worse that sent America’s prestige and credibility plunging and imposed on the American people ever-growing new burdens—even war—with no end in sight. The assault remains perplexing to the few Americans aware of its details but no more so than the strange behavior of President Lyndon B. Johnson while the attack was still underway. Most Americans have no knowledge of the assault on Liberty or the cover up, but these are certain to make indelible pages in future history books.
When attacked, the Liberty, an unarmed reconnaissance ship of the U.S. Navy, was moving slowly in international waters off the coast of Gaza and the Sinai. The day’s horrors are detailed in a report filed on behalf of the ship’s survivors in a U.S. circuit court in California on the 38th anniversary of the assault. Among the Israeli crimes cited in the lawsuit are the following--
--sustained rocket, cannon and torpedo fire from air and sea that killed U.S. 34 sailors, wounded 173 others, and riddled the defenseless ship with holes, one of them 40 feet wide;
--gun fire that destroyed rubber lifeboats that were put in the water when the ship’s captain ordered preparations to abandon ship;
--the firing of napalm on the open deck where defenseless sailors were attempting to protect the ship,
The assault was deliberate. It was committed in broad daylight during a two-hour span in the afternoon that followed a series of close-in aerial surveillance flights by Israeli aircraft hours earlier The assault did not begin until three hours after Israel’s naval command precisely identified the target as an unarmed U.S. Navy reconnaissance vessel. The American flag flew in a brisk breeze at the ship’s stern. The large U.S. Navy insignia was clearly visible on the ship’s hull.
When General Moshe Dayan issued the order to destroy the Liberty, one of the generals on his staff remonstrated: “This is pure murder.” Several Israeli pilots, knowing the target was American, refused to take part. Testimony of survivors leaves no doubt that Israel’s military high command intended to sink the ship and kill all personnel aboard, leaving no trace of Israel’s responsibility.
It was a monstrous example of ingratitude. At the very moment Israeli forces murdered U.S. sailors, President Lyndon B. Johnson was secretly providing unmarked U.S. military aircraft and personnel to aid Israel in its war against neighboring Arab states.
It is difficult to imagine a goal that would lead the government of Israel, a beleaguered nation whose only substantial international support came from the United States, to attempt to destroy a military vessel and crew of its only benefactor.
Liberty survivors believe Israel’s most likely goal was to lure the United States into joining the Jewish state as a fighting partner in its war against Arab states. The goal would be tempting. With America’s mighty military forces battling at its side, Israel could reasonably expect that its nation’s security would be guaranteed far into the future. Another motivation might have been the concern that the Liberty crew would learn that Israel planned to invade Syria the next day and transmit that message to Washington. The scheme would work only if Israel could make Egypt, the leading Arab combatant, appear to be responsible for obliterating the Liberty and its crew. That, of course, would require that Israel succeed in destroying all evidence of its own guilt.
Whatever the motivation, the risk of disclosure was immense. If only one U.S. sailor survived to tell the true story or if just one outraged Israeli officer spoke out, the American people would demand severe retribution against Israel.
The scheme might have worked, except for the ingenuity of Liberty radiomen. It failed because, despite Israel’s intense jamming of airways and bombardment that wrecked the ship’s radio equipment, the crew managed to transmit one lone message--a call for help that was received by a nearby U.S. aircraft carrier, as well as by Israeli intelligence.
The Liberty message spoiled any Israeli plans to blame Egypt. Israel sent diplomats immediately by helicopter offering help to Liberty survivors—an offer scornfully refused by the ship’s skipper, Commander William McGonagle, still on the bridge despite severe leg wounds. Israel also sent regrets to the White House, claiming that Israeli forces believed their target was Egyptian.
Just as astounding as the assault itself was the reaction of President Lyndon B. Johnson during that day and those that followed. He acted as if his chief responsibility was to protect Israel from harm and criticism. When he learned that a U.S. carrier had launched fighter aircraft to defend the Liberty, the president ordered the aircraft back to the carrier, the only time in U.S. naval history that rescue aircraft were called back while a Navy vessel was under assault. It was stark evidence that Johnson considered Israeli sensitivities and the well-being of Israeli attack personnel more important than the lives of Liberty crewmen.
After the assault, Johnson continued to place Israel’s interests above Liberty survivors. He immediately took steps to protect Israel from any public protest that might arise. He accepted quickly Israel’s excuse of mistaken identity that his administration knew to be false. He ordered an immediate Navy Court of Inquiry but instructed the chairman, Admiral Isaac Kidd, to absolve Israel of guilt. [In a recent sworn statement, retired Navy Captain Ward Boston, Jr., a member of the Court of Inquiry, declared that he and Kidd were convinced all along that the assault was deliberate, not a case of mistaken identity.]
The president also ordered Kidd to keep survivors from talking about their ordeal. As soon as they were brought ashore, Kidd complied with the presidential order by threatening the sailors, some still bedridden, with court martial and imprisonment if they said anything publicly.
When the court completed its quick, limited inquiry and prepared a report, Kidd admitted privately to a colleague that he knew it was misleading. Before it was released to the media, its text was further sanitized for Israel’s benefit by Department of Defense civilian attorneys. One of the items they deleted was testimony by survivor Lloyd Painter who told the court he witnessed Israeli forces deliberately shooting lifeboats to pieces.
Medals were issued to survivors but in quiet ceremonies far from the White House and the president.
Many public documents related to the assault remain classified. Over the years, Liberty survivors have pleaded repeatedly with administration officials, congressional committees, individual Members of Congress and the media for full disclosure of the truth. Only a few periodicals and networks responded. Only a handful of individual Members of Congress, none in a leadership position, dared to speak out.
The court’s false and misleading inquiry was the only official one ever held. Johnson’s thorough cover up was maintained by all of his successors in the presidency.
Why the cover up?
Three years ago, Condoleeza Rice, now President George W. Bush’s secretary of state and then his national security adviser, unwittingly explained why in a remarkable burst of candor. She said: “We have an Israel-centric foreign policy.” Rice’s statement was profound and accurate. Although she spoke nearly a half- century after the assault her words explain why the cover up began and why it continues to this day.
Since 1967, many people in and out of government have learned the truth abut the cover up. Why were they silent? Why did the reporters ignore tips that would surely lead to top news stories?
The sad and simple truth is that most Americans, especially those in public office and even those in the presidency, have a deadly fear of being called anti-Semitic. They will not utter or write criticism of Israel, no matter how well documented, for fear it will draw that unwarranted and unwelcome charge. Former U.S. Ambassador the UN George W. Ball once stated that the most powerful instrument of intimidation employed by Israel’s U.S. lobby is the “reckless charge of anti-Semitism.”
The fear is endemic but rarely mentioned. It reaches all government offices and intimidates all levels and sections of our society—business, education, academia, preachers, publishing and other media. Dwight D. Eisenhower was the only president to demand that Israel abide by international law. In 1956, on the eve of his successful bid for reelection, he forced Israel to halt its illegal military assault on Egypt’s Suez Canal.
Among those who know the facts about Israeli influence, almost all can supply an excuse to remain silent. The few willing to speak out get little or no attention.
Pro-Israel forces long ago successfully redefined anti-Semitism to mean any criticism of the State of Israel. The new definition is false, malicious and damaging to our national interests, but the Liberty crew and their supporters are among the few willing to risk an anti-Semitic smear.
As a consequence, most citizens are unaware of the startling fact that for years our U.S. Middle East policy has not been crafted by seasoned experts who are committed to America’s basic national interests. Instead it is made by lobbies for two politically-powerful religious communities whose goals are narrowly focused. One community is relatively small in number but powerful in influence. It consists mainly of zealous secular Jews, as well as ultra-Orthodox Jews. They are perhaps best described as extreme Zionists. The other community is very large, consisting of many millions of Christians who accept a controversial interpretation of the Bible’s Book of Revelations.
Both groups believe present-day Israel is a resurrection of ancient Israel and a preeminent part of God’s plan. Both believe the Jewish state must be kept strong and united until the arrival on earth of each group’s messiah.
They have attained such political power that Congress dutifully appropriates billions to Israel without conditions or serious discussion, much less real debate. Because of this unrestricted aid year after year, Israeli leaders have been able to violate human rights, engage in lawless behavior, abandon the idealism of Judaism, and lure America into damning complicity in this scofflaw conduct.
The complicity reached a fateful peak in 1982 when the U.S. government supplied the arms and material that Israel used in slaughtering 18,000 Beirut civilians, then, adding insult to injury, immediately replenished Israel’s supply of weapons and ammunition. . Osama bin Laden recently stated publicly that he planned 9/11 as the payback for the U.S. supportive role.
The lobby’s grip on our government is unhealthy for both Israel and the United States. It is also unhealthy for both Christianity and Judaism. If our nation is to emerge from today’s peril, we must face openly and critically the role of these religious groups and their passionate, dangerous attachment to a single small scofflaw government. If we keep tip-toeing around reality, we risk still greater peril tomorrow.
The Liberty cover up will someday be recognized as an historic but wrong turning point for America. It convinced Israeli leaders that they could get by with anything, even mass murder of U.S. sailors, with only a helpful reaction from Washington, because that is what actually happened.
It proved ultimately to be a fateful blunder for both Israel and America. It was the first major example of America’s Israel-centric foreign policy that has led our people into ever-deepening trouble. It inaugurated endless, ever-mounting U.S. aid to Israel, all of it unconditional and without accountability required. For Israel, it cleared the path for more aggressive military conquest and abuse. It reinforced its contempt for legal constraints and world opinion.
As I ponder the awful price paid by the Liberty survivors, I marvel—and recoil—at the grip the government of Israel, a small nation of about five million people, maintains over America, a nation of nearly 300 million.
After many years in politics, I am convinced that America’s greatest burden today is the quiet but firm domination of our national life by Israel, a phenomenon that reaches far broader and deeper than the fate of the Liberty and its crew, important as their fate is to hundreds of families and in the proud annals of the U.S. Navy. Israel’s assault, although an egregious example of this how costly this burden can be, is not the only example, nor the most recent one.
Our longstanding Israel-centric policies are the main reason why America, once revered worldwide, is today reviled worldwide. Our war in Iraq and even 9/11 can be traced to the extreme anti-Arab bias in our Israel-centric foreign policies.
The cover up of the Liberty assault signaled the day that tiny Israel took firm control of mighty America’s Middle East policies. This, in turn, provoked rising worldwide Arab/Muslim fury against America as well as Israel.
If the truth about the assault on the Liberty had been officially disclosed in detail at any point since 1967, public outrage would have forced an immediate end to our Israel-centric foreign policy. Unconditional aid to Israel would come to a halt. All future U.S. aid would have been tied to firm conditions and accountability procedures like those demanded of all other recipients. This, I believe, would have protected Israel from law-breaking. Years ago, I heard Moshe Dayan, then Israel’s preeminent political and military leader, state plainly that Israel would have no choice but to obey U.S. requirements if they were conditions of eligibility for U.S. aid.
The report filed in federal court by Liberty survivors could become America’s turn for the better. If the Bush administration responds positively, the benefits can be great A bright new day can dawn for America. Our nation’s relationship with powerful religious groups can become rational, as adherents for the first time become aware of Israel’s perfidy. People in almost all lands everywhere, including Israel, can reasonably expect a better tomorrow.
With his cabinet picks and AIPAC speech President-Elect Obama has already made it pretty clear where he stands on this issue. He probably sees no upside in getting directly involved in this issue before the inauguration.
I don't expect Obama or any President to save the world but some even handedness would be useful. The latest round of violence needs to be understood in the context of the Israeli blockade and attempted starvation of Gaza. Food, water, medicine, fuel, electricity, etc are not being allowed in, in violation of numerous international laws. Gaza fishermen have been killed by Israeli naval personnel for the "crime" of being outside the Israeli imposed limit. There have been assassinations of Gaza residents, overflights and bombing before this "current" round of violence. Those are US weapons which are now being used to kill civilians.
Moral issues aside, Israel's actions will complicate US foreign policy in that region immensely. Obama will have to deal with that. I wish him good luck.
http://fromgaza.blogspot.com/
http://antiwar.com/justin/justin122908.php
I don't know what Obama is going to do.
There seems to be nothing that is going well at the moment.
I agree his big domestic agenda might have to be put on the back burner to deal with this mess unless a cease fire happens sooner rather than later.
Field Negro , today you sound like a real house negro.Well, I guess that the Palestinians dont deserve to live in peace .
Israel has every right to defend herself. And to Anonymous, of course Pals have a right to live. But guess what? So do Jews.
This latest crisis is the result of Hamas launching rockets into Southern Israel and killing people.
This has been going on for some time, but it's funny how the people who are now wringing their hands over Palestinian deaths were strangely silent when Hamas was engaging in attacks against Israeli citizens.
That said, I don't think that Obama is dodging anything. It's true that we can only have one president at a time. This is not the first time Obama has had to remind us.
Nor do I think that he's that naive to believe that the latest conflict will have gone away by the time he's in office.
As much as we may want him to start early, we just have to wait until January 20th.
Anon. I know all about the U.S. Liberty incident, and thanks for your observations.
"That girl", I will try and answer your question later. ( I am pressed for time right now) But it's deeper than just the civil rights thing.
"Field Negro , today you sound like a real house negro.Well, I guess that the Palestinians dont deserve to live in peace."
Nope, just an informed one. And of course the Pals deserve to live in peace, but as Sharon said, so do the Jews.
All this defense of Israel makes my head dizzy. Obama is not going against his masters. Read what a Jew in Israel wrote right here:
What, Exactly, is Israel's Mission?
By NEVE GORDON
The first bombardment took three minutes and forty seconds. Sixty Israeli F-16 fighter jets bombed fifty sites in Gaza, killing over two hundred Palestinians, and wounding close to a thousand more.
A few hours after the deadly strike, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert convened a press conference in Tel-Aviv. With Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni sitting on his right and Defense Minister Ehud Barak on his left, he declared: “It may take time, and each and every one of us must be patient so we can complete the mission.”
But what exactly, one might ask, is Israel’s mission?
Although Olmert did not say as much, the “mission” includes four distinct objectives.
The first is the destruction of Hamas, a totally unrealistic goal. Even though the loss of hundreds of cadres and some key leaders will no doubt hurt the organization, Hamas is a robust political movement with widespread grassroots support, and it is unlikely to surrender or capitulate to Israeli demands following a military assault. Ironically, Israel’s attempt to destroy Hamas using military force has always ended up strengthening the organization, thus corroborating the notion that power produces its own vulnerability.
The second objective has to do with Israel’s upcoming elections. The assault on Gaza is also being carried out to help Kadima and Labor defeat Likud and its leader Benjamin Netanyhu, who is currently ahead in the polls. It is not coincidental that Netanyahu’s two main competitors, Livni and Barak, were invited to the press conference – since, after the assault, it will be more difficult for Netanyahu to characterize them as “soft” on the Palestinians. Whether or not the devastation in Gaza will help Livni defeat Netanyhu or help Barak gain votes in the February elections is difficult to say, but the strategy of competing with a warmonger like Netanyhu by beating the drums of war says a great deal about all three major contenders.
The third objective involves the Israeli military. After its notable humiliation in Lebanon during the summer of 2006, the IDF has been looking for opportunities to reestablish its global standing. Last Spring it used Syria as its laboratory and now it has decided to focus on Gaza. Emphasizing the mere three minutes and forty seconds it took to bomb fifty sites is just one the ways the Israeli military aims to restore its international reputation.
Finally, Hamas and Fatah have not yet reached an agreement regarding how to proceed when Mahmoud Abbas ends his official term as President of the Palestinian National Authority on January 9th, 2009. One of the outcomes of this assault is that Abbas will remain in power for a while longer since Hamas will be unable to mobilize its supporters in order to force him to resign.
What is clearly missing from this list of Israeli objectives is the attempt to halt the firing of Qassam rockets into Israel’s southern towns. Unlike the objectives I mentioned, which are not discussed by government officials, this one is presented by the government as the operation’s primary objective. Yet, the government is actively misleading the public, since Israel could have put an end to the rockets a long time ago. Indeed, there was relative quiet during the six-months truce with Hamas, a quiet that was broken most often as a reaction to Israeli violence: that is, following the extra-judicial execution of a militant or the imposition of a total blockade which prevented basic goods, like food stuff and medicine, from entering the Gaza Strip. Rather than continuing the truce, the Israeli government has once again chosen to adopt strategies of violence that are tragically akin to the one’s deployed by Hamas, only the Israeli ones are much more lethal.
If the Israeli government really cared about its citizens and the country’s long term ability to sustain itself in the Middle East, it would abandon the use of violence and talk with its enemies.
Neve Gordon is the chair of the Department of Politics and Government, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, and is the author of Israel’s Occupation, University of California Press, 2008. His website is www.israelsoccupation.info
Neve Gordon is the chair of the Department of Politics and Government, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Israel, and is the author of Israel’s Occupation, University of California Press, 2008. His website is www.israelsoccupation.info
Oh, these are credentials indicating an unbiased source. Don't make me laugh.
Btw, your reference to Obama obeying his masters. What exactly is that supposed to mean?
What are your sources for your support of Israel. Obama advisors Rham Emmanuel and David Axelrod both Jewish. Hamas I remind you is the elected government of Palestinians not Fatah. Gaza is an internment camp and Israel should be convicted of war crimes. Everything that professor wrote is the truth and your lying eyes will not let you see it. Tell me where he lied at anytime in that article. Israel is killing those people with US weapons. Why does the US continue to support Israel with unconditional support. Go somewhere and read something. Besides watching CNN, MSNBC and refusing to examine your Jesus (oops I meant Obama).
What are your sources for your support of Israel.
I've been watching folks like the PLO and Hamas for more years than I'd like to admit. They have never met an opportunity that they couldn't pass up.
Folks such as yourself talk about the "Israeli Occupation" while ignoring the fact that the West Bank, Gaza and Sinai were obtained following wars in which Arab countries vowed to drive Israel into the sea.
That's what happens in war, you see. You start something you can't finish and get your behind kicked, you just may lose some land, which in this case wasn't put to founding any Palestinian nation when it was in the hands of the Pals.
And we are talking about the 60s and 70s here.
In any case, Sinai was ceded in a brokered peace between Israel and Egypt. And guess what?
The same could have been said when Clinton tried to broker a peace between Olmert and Arafat. The Pals could have had 80 percent of the West Bank, eventually having all of it.
But no, violence and rock throwing is a lot more fun than nation building I suppose.
So, that's where I am with Israel.
Obama advisors Rham Emmanuel and David Axelrod both Jewish.
You do realize this is the United States? It's not illegal for Jews to public office here.
Hamas I remind you is the elected government of Palestinians not Fatah. Gaza is an internment camp and Israel should be convicted of war crimes.
If you think that Israel has no right to defend herself, that's unfortunate. But given your disturbing concern over the ethnicity of government officials who happen to be Jewish, I totally get it.
Everything that professor wrote is the truth and your lying eyes will not let you see it.
You just are unhappy that Israelis just don't roll over and play dead. Jews did enough rolling over some years ago. But that's not enough for you, apparently.
Tell me where he lied at anytime in that article.
Implying that the Hamas attacks on Southern Israel was not the motivation behind Israel's retaliation into Gaza.
Israel is killing those people with US weapons.
Ah, because they are weapons that are handy in a war? What do you suggest Israel do with them? Make cupcakes?
Why does the US continue to support Israel with unconditional support.
Because Israel is an ally.
Go somewhere and read something. Besides watching CNN, MSNBC and refusing to examine your Jesus (oops I meant Obama).
I've read plenty over the years. And enough to know an antisemite when I see one.
"I've read plenty over the years. And enough to know an antisemite when I see one."
Sharon, how are you going to call someone an anti-semite because they ask someone to look beyond mainstream American news outlets?
"You do realize this is the United States? It's not illegal for Jews to public office here."
That is obviously not what the poster was saying but you obviously lack the knowledge as to what they were talking about because you are simple minded. Do you know about Rahm Emmanuel's history, both political and familial?
Also, there are many Jews like myself who disagree with many of the actions of the Israeli government, are they anti-semites?
No matter what you think of Israel it's hard to see how what Israel is doing now is going to help the situation in the long term or even the short term.
I suspect Israeli domestic political considerations are a factor here. Olmert wants to show that he's a hardass in advance of the upcoming elections.
I think the Arabs who thought Barack Hussein Obama might be more fair toward their side are in for a rude awakening.
I used to support Israel unconditionally. I know better now. They are not the victims. Gaza is now the new Warsaw Ghetto.
Maybe I stopped supporting them when I learned that they introduced airplane hijacking into the region in 1954 when they seized a Syrian passenger plane.
It could have been when I learned of the Lavon Affair in Egypt. They attacking American property to blame it on Egypt to destroy any chance of diplomatic relations. Hmmmm....like they are provoking Hamas now prevent Obama from bringing any chance of peace in the region. God forbid that Obama talk to Iran.
Maybe the last straw was when I discovered that Israel used BIOLOGICAL WARFARE on the Palestinians. Read about it.
Though it is a state secret, Israel's development of chemical and biological weapons has been known and analyzed for decades. From the typhoid poisoning of Palestinian wells and water supplies in 1948 to the conversion of F-16s into nerve gas "crop dusters" in 1998, Israel has always demonstrated a strong interest in developing CBW agents and methods for their dispersal.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/brooks.php?articleid=2957
I second the nomination of field to house negro of the day. It's absurd to make the point that because Hamas has pledged the destruction of Israel "not bloody likely in any way shape or form" the state of Israel gets to kill as many Palestinians in Gaza to force Hamas to peace on Israeli terms. I mean come on, F-16's and three billion of American military aid each year go a long way towards providing for the security for Israel who as we have been told again and again by our betters are our strongest allies in the middle east. If President elect Obama follows the path laid out by our elected leaders and the media there will be no peace in Palestine under his administration. Oh and Sistani(that's Iraq's most respected cleric folks) just issued a fatwa and blowback!! Hope founders and dies on the fallacy that the United States of America has to back Israel no matter what. Do some of you here even understand that this is being broadcast all over the world and the world does not see a beleaguered democratic state being attacked relentlessly by "thugs" they see a arrogant power gearing up for an election(funny how no one here is really talking about that) raining death from the skies. If BiBi becomes the next prime minister he's already promised a attack on Iran. If the reaction from the United States runs par for the course does anyone think the Israelis won't take a second bite of the apple; notice how Iran is now being linked to Hamas in the news reports and some blogger eats it up. Our approved government in Iraq has ties to Iran , eh field? Last point when he said back during the primaries that "if someone was dropping bombs on the house where his two little girls lived then he would do everything in his power to stop them. Other people have little girls and boys.Peace, not just a saying a way of life oh and Cynthia McKinney rocked on CNN this morning.
You made a very balanced stand field. There is wrong on both sides. I wish that more people would recognize it instead of just trying to blame the Jews for every wrong on the planet
I'm not sure what "fair to their side is"...
Seems to me, the US has spent a fair amount of money, time, and blood on the Islamic problems - and Hamas freely breaks bread with the sort of "Islamic problems" who bombed our country, despite having funding from different sources, and supposedly different objectives.
Seems to me, the US - starting in Bosnia, has spent quite a bit of blood, sweat, and tears this last 20 years in defending the interests and well being of Islamic peoples, and Islamic Arab countries, not the least of which include Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Surely you can't be stupid enough to believe the golden city of Dubai could stand for one second, without the full faith and surity of the Western Nations backing and protecting them with the threat of the full force of their militaries.
Seems to me, the US has shown a remarkable restraint, when the world's waterways are no longer safe from Somali and Yemini terrorists and pirates whose Russian weapons were bought and paid for by radical Islamic groups, funded by some of the same Saudis our soldiers defended in Desert Storm, to destabilize entire countries...
And 800,000 are murdered in the Sudan, in a pogrom to religiously purify the country for Islam.
Seems to me, none of these Arab countries lifted a finger when oil prices were artificially inflated to over $150 a barrel last year - resulting in destabilizing Islamic non-oil producing countries, food riots, starvation, and effectively derailing those countries efforts to develop sustainable economies.
Seems to me the US, joined by a good portion of the world is going to tire of being held hostage, being bombed, and loosing their freedoms to terrorists as their governments struggle to assure their saftey with increasingly draconian protective measures...
And let the dogs loose.
The "problem" here...
Isn't Israel.
BT
Virtually the entire world is criticizing Israel over their military assault on Gaza.
Protests have erupted in London, Paris, Rome, Tokyo, and Sydney. The USA is alone in supporting Israeli military adventurism in the Gaza.
While there is certainly adequate culpability on both sides of the aisle, I think most reasonable people can agree that Israel is practicing a form of Apartheid against the Palestinians. For Tel Aviv controls the amount of fresh drinking water, electricity, and medicine the Palestinians receive. Palestinians only get work permits for the most menial jobs that pay the least.
Meanwhile, the official American position toward Israel's behavior is to look the other way and only say we support Israel's right to self-determination.
Obama put his foot in his mouth earlier this year when he dared to utter a word of compassion vis a vis the Palestinians plight. American and Israeli Jews -- as well as their supporters went bathsit crazy and nearly called him an anti-Semite. The Borg Queen, wholly owned and operated by the Likuds, would've never said such a thing. She knows what side her bread is buttered.
Obama could go a long way toward calming the conflict by dispatching an emissary to the region within 72 hours of his swearing in, and then invite both sides to Washington to begin peace talks. Will these gestures arrest the conflict? Probably not but, this is 1000 times more than the Bush junta did during the past 8 years in office.
Damn...it looks like Israel is going to try and kick start GWB's filthy oil war against Iran before he gets out of office after all. The corpora-media has been beating the "Iran has been arming Hamas" drum for months now in prep for this too.
Right about now, I'm hoping the Mayans weren't correct.
The disheartening thing is, how people that I otherwise think are smart and informed, are all of a sudden, losing all sense of rationality, and jumping into instant lock step behind this (present company excepted of course). I suppose it's just another perk of our imperial existence, and life in a land that stands little or no chance of invasion on it's own shores.
I agree 100% with your assessment by the way. P.E. Obama needs to come to the stunning revelation that the election's over. He looked good on the stump, but it's time. I hope that he is gonna show the world that the grownups are in charge now.
FYI, I try and stay out of Israel-Palestine discussions. It never ends well, and invariably devolves into chairs broken, bottles smashed, women stampeded, cattle raped...
Both sides are at fault, but I have to diss Israel for behaving like that Santa Claus that killed nine people. Killing civilians while going after Hamas is not cool. Israel even took out a ship loaded with medical supplies because they suspected it was involved in terrorism.
I don't understand this "Defend Israel at all costs" foreign policy. What has Israel done for us lately?
Israel, is NOT the 51st American state.
In fact, the unending upheaval in the region coupled with our undying support of anything Israel does, to me, represents one of the biggest security threats to the USA.
Hey Field Negro!!
I am sooooo off topic right now but.... {applause}
You are listed as a finalist over at 2008 Weblog Awards in the Best Individual Blogger category!!
Link:
http://2008.weblogawards.org/site-news/2008-weblog-awards-finalists/#more
The nominees were announced last night!
{thumbs up}
Peace blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Israeli warplanes continue to pound Hamas installations inside the Gaza strip. Speculation about a ground assault continues, but no ground assault has occurred as of this post. There has been much condemnation of Israel for over responding to the daily Hamas rocket attacks from the Gaza strip. I support the Israeli actions. If a hundred rockets were being launched into the USA from foreign soil, we would have taken quicker and stronger measures than the Israelis have.
Watch the action from a missile's eye view here. Missile's eye view
The people living in the Gaza strip are being deprived of humanitarian aid, every media outlet is silent on the catastrophe as they are to every inhuman treatment that is permitted the world over, with the goal to rid our country and the world of it's so called enemies and perhaps forcing them to surrender. The conflict between Israel is now intensifying and as it appears Israel is not interested in peace they want domination.
Picture this if you lived in Gaza and Israel, were denied entry of food and medical supplies to your country and your family especially your children were starving what would you think or do? Does this not sound inhumane to you? Well it is, here we have a people who have descended from a people who were almost annihilated by the Nazi’s and then turn around and mistreat other human beings over so called “blessed” land.
From what I remember The Geneva Conventions, particularly those articles addressing the punishment of civilian populations, were created in response to the treatment of Jews by the Nazis during World War II. The worlds military is suppose to follow this doctrine and many seldom do. And from what I’ve seen, it too just like any written word of GOD, is tossed out of the window and selectively used with certain parts of it used when needed. The Geneva Conventions is now one big joke and it needs to put away because it certainly has not been enforced since World War II. Almost every country in the entire world has been in violation of it’s laws including Israel and the USA.
Jew against Muslim, Muslim against Christian and Christian against Muslim, all descended from the same cloth and still refusing to sit at the table of peace. Where are the Rabbi’s and Imams who can help end this conflict? Diplomacy has failed and will continue to do so when one group continues to think they are superior to the other. Every one proclaiming to believe in GOD and no one appears to have any real faith or courage in changing the situation. Hamas is not set up in schools, hospitals and mosques, that’s just an evil cowards excuse of killing innocent people and justifying their actions in doing so.
Where is the chorus of international dissent? I don’t condone what the Hamas have done either, because wrong is wrong and every one knows the difference. Mass punishment of their people is not the answer either. One has a feeling of entitlement and excludes all others, which they refuse to see themselves in the mirror of their own history of persecution and hatred from others.The other refuses the displacement and the colonization of it’s people because they also feel that they belong there.
Why can’t they all just live together in Peace I often ask? They can’t because each one is different as they all believe, it’s not natural for Jew, Christian, and Muslim to live in harmony. Differences create division and division creates wars with the common factor of one believing they are superior to others. No one wants to be at the bottom.
Anyone who would even suggest that the international community should condemn these attacks by the militant Palestinian factions, and ignore the humanitarian disaster being imposed on Gaza by the Israeli government blatantly demonstrates hypocrisy of the highest order. Even more importantly is the fact that Jews are the ones guilty of these mindless actions in Gaza is a tragedy of immense and historical proportions.
Obama can’t save the world but he needs to have the balls and courage to stand in truth and call the rest of the world out on their BS. If not then he’ll be just like the other typical Negroes who refuse to take the helms of leadership and do the right thing.
I for one am a Mother and now a Grandmother and when I see unnecessary suffering in the world, I for one will speak out against it! When I see the children of others who are suffering, I see my own children in them. And this is wrong! He’s a father and he too should think of those innocent children in Gaza and in Israel.
To even suggest that bombs are the answer is surly a sign of insecurity and weakness, and it does not make men (bombs and bullying makes not a man). Obama not only refuses to speak out against the punishment of the people of Gaza by their oppressors he seems to be a supporter of it as well. We'll see what will be done when he takes office.
Will “change” be just an illusion as always or will we actually bear witness to substantive change in how we deal with the rest of the world. With the appointment of Hillary I honestly don’t think so. With her being in that office, I’ll believe it when I see it.
The international bloggers are the new media and now have the capability to effect change and humanitarian efforts around the world. Let me speak to the American bloggers now, where is the vociferous galvanization of voices and cries for justice, like during the so called Jena Six incident and even this past presidential election? Where is the human consciousness sans the snark and proverbial insults?
Any one speaking against Israel is referred to as anti Semite and I am neither. Anti Semite and nigger seem to have the same connotations with others- I’ve been called worse. It’s all about what I answer to and to whom I answer to. I’ve been to the former concentration camps in Europe and had the opportunity for my children to see mans wrath against each other. I’ve seen the suffering imposed by man against man so don’t even attempt to put me in a category.
Are many bloggers afraid to do away with the so called titles that identify them as conservative, liberal and others for the one in which they all can readily identify with and that being of humanity? If I don’t believe anything else in this world, I personally believe that religion has turned people into evil human beings. Religiosity has played a huge role in the oppression, violence and hopelessness suffered by billions of human beings.
I’m not shocked at all by the amount of human suffering imposed by man nor by the shear denial of it permitted by man. I’ve seen worse and I’ve been through my own share to know that I’m not immune to the indignity and violence suffered at the hands of others.
Some folks are not waiting for “Judgment Day” because they've been doing it for themselves for centuries.
I want to live to see peace in the Middle East and hopefully peace around the world, don‘t any of you? I will never give up because I know we will find a way.
In twenty more days reality will kick in for a lot of people, not for me because I’m already awake. Sit back as usual, do nothing and enjoy the ride because it appears it’s going to be bumpy.
The Isrealis are on the wrong side of history. That is the true source of the conflict. In 1948 it was understood that Europeans could colonize the lands of nonwhites and no one would have an issue with it. Ten years later independance movements were sweeping the third world and the concept of white supremacy is under attack. The idea that Europeans are justified in taking the land of others still exists today (hence Isreal) but it has to be hidden. Unfortunately modern communications make it nearly impossible to hide the criminality which is necessary in keeping people occupied (colonized).
Anybody who thinks Obama can "do something" about what's going on in Gaza is deluding himself. American complicity is the main reason Isreal is able to do this kind of stuff in the first place.
Hamas should realize that if you mess with the bull, you get the horns. Israel is an economic powerhouse in a region of moribund economies, a democracy in an area of dictatorships and theocracies. Hamas needs to be destroyed and removed from power and then a cease fire installed.
We need to send a clear message to the arab countries: stop supporting Islamist groups and democratize/modernize or will cut off all aid to their governments.
This situation over there should also be a further reminder that we need alternate sources of energy. Once we get off oil, Arab governments in the Middle East will be helpless.
Here's what Obama said last July "If someone was sending rockets on my house where my daughters were sleeping at night, I would do everything to stop it, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing." I agree. Also, when will Egypt end it's evil gaza blockage? Oh the humanity...
szpork
Bush can (and will) do nothing, that much is clear. Obama can only do marginally more than what Bush can do (or has done). The simple ugly truth is that short of an Iraqi style invasion where we literally take over and start distributing punishments and rewards, America's hands are tied. Not one American President has ever been able to bring about any real peace in the middle east (specificaly between Israelis and Palestinians). The best that Obama will be able to hope for is that his goodwill and new found political capital (in the international sphere) will be enough to convince the Israeli government to agree to a ceasefire for a while (peace and security has proven to be a transient quality in that part of the world).
Meanwhile, it is our part to say wrong is wrong. We shouldn't let the fear of being labled as anti-Israel stop us from decrying the senseless deaths of countless Palestinian civilians as a result of airstrikes. It is as heinous as the attacks perpatrated by groups like Hamas and their supporters, against Israeli civilians. The uglier truth is that these outbursts of violence (from both sides) accomplish nothing but more of the same.
hey false1
I don't think Palastineans and the Isrealis are that easy to tell apart racially, though I might be wrong. I've seen some pictures and they both have a mix of white and middle eastern peoples. Isreali's may tend to be on the whiter side of the spectrum but I'm sure one could pass for the other.
Although the fact that you would said that shows that their is an association of white with Isreal, so what you said may still apply.
I meant to say a mix of white and middle eastern FEATURES not people.
europeans and their arrogance, my way or the highway. Native Americans useless , let's take their kids, cut their hair, punish them if they speak or practice their culture. Oh wait what natural healing methods did they have ?
Africans or Shemites or Hammites, useless they're just good for labor
we are the chosen people (even though the black man is the original man) we will bomb, kill because we are God's people, we can do whatever, other humans that were placed on the same Earth as us aren't as important. We are the chosen people so instead of leading by example WE BOMB WE BOMB WE BOMB. we are the canaanites and we know everything, other humans are useless. We are the chosen, we kill children, mothers, the elderly and if you dare question we will label you as am anti-semite (shhh it really means anti black but we don't really follow any moral laws)
Sorry Field. I love you Brotha. But your defense of Israel is of the House Negro kind. Frankly, the Palestinians paying for Europe's crime is not just. It never has been. It never will be.
Therefore Field, to help you reevaluate your thesis, may I remind you of the following:
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." — Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983
-------
The late Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan asserted that the quality of American military forces had deteriorated because they were composed of Blacks "who have low intelligence and low education." He urged America to ensure that "fresh blood and better brains go to their forces." He is a hero in Israel.
Human Rigths violations are all right if they are commited by us or our allies.Israel is a terrorist state and has been since its foundation,the only country on earth with roads for Jews only while Palestinians live in Bantustans like village with one way in and one way out controlled by the ruthless soldiers of the IDF who act like the SS did the Warsaw ghettos.The problem is not the Palestinians but the OCCUPATION.
Field as I stated in my early entry today you are the honorary HOUSE NEGRO of te day.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/
season 10
episode 1
stange!
The situation in Israel is apartheid
The military blockade that precipitated this was/is collective punishment and therefore a war crime
A right wing religious zealot is a right wing religious zealot whether they are Muslim, Jew, or Christian...
The house is nice and warm today isn't it?
Okay . .okay. The name calling is not really productive is it? Can we all just agree that war does not solve conflicts?? Sure Hamas has more terrorist leanings and support from that state sponsor Iran than other DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED governments. Does that mean that civilians should pay with their lives to "send a message"??
I would suspect that the heavy handed response from Israel -- bombing the crap out of the Palestinians with the weapons we sold them, is not conveying any message to Hamas except, "Let's try to shoot those rockets farther".
What about a surgical strike? Perhaps a team of specially trained Israeli combat troops could find the source of the rocket fire and disable it no? What is the harm in trying the "scalpel instead of a sledgehammer" approach? Not sure it is a complete fix to the issues but it could work.
I am however pretty sure that after 7 years of war in Afghanistan and 6 or so in Iraq that intelligent Americans (and transplants like me) can see that that MORE war is not a solution to this political problem.
Permit me to pour a little cold water on the "wouldn't you defend yourself if someone was shooting rockets into your home?" fire. Defense of oneself and family justified of course BUT is not the same as wiping out a people, regardless how you spin it or slice it. If a dude breaks into my home, I can shoot him (in most states), but I certainly CANNOT go after his family. Proportionality actually means something, people.
Why was Hamas elected in the first place? Perhaps the other options were not palatable . . . perhaps the election was fixed. Or maybe the folks in the Gaza region wanted change. Hello folks, sound familiar? Not saying that the stakes were the same but most of you just helped a Black man become POTUS.
Furthermore, read the history. As stated above, Israel has done some things that are less than honorable in their 60 year history. And for pointing that out, I am certainly no anti-Semite.
Field, I too struggle to understand how you could take a side here that doesn't recognize mutual fault and reprimand BOTH sides of the conflict. Especially after Condi all but admitted that the US would be biased in its Middle East dealings. We all have blood on our hands: The US, Israel, Arab nations and the EU.
Mr. President-Elect should keep his mouth shut for another 21 days. Besides, my home still hasn't regained its value. Looking for that prudent-non-speculating-prime-mortgage-holder TARP any time now . . .
Ok, now why was hamas elected when they were? Because bush and condi pushed for elections in Palestine so he could have his headline about democracy thriving in Palestine. Abbas knew the PLO would be routed and tried to stop them but Bush, constantly in PR mode, made it happen anyway and look what happened.
Also, all the Israel defenders love to ignore the fact that Hamas was supported by Israeli Intel to "counterbalance" the PLO.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10456.htm
This is just further proof that Israel has absolutely no desire to pursue the two state solution, since there is no peaceful endgame involved in their current course of actions. They are simply pursuing their vision of "greater Israel": The idea that it is their duty as Jews to restore the biblical kingdom of David, which is just as nuts as electing someone as POTUS who believes in the rapture.
the Arabs and hamas have done everything to violate the ceasefire, while the israelis did nothing but take it . Let us not forget the motto of Hamas-"death to Israel" ( it is also the title of their anthem"). Israel is 100% justified in their actions and will continue to be justified if they continue for a full year. Hamas is terrorist and if the Palestininians elect to allow them to occupy their houses, using them as pawns, these fools fully deserve what they are receiving!
This is all BIBLICAL, and GOD is not pleased with his first love, that being ISRAEL, and yes this is also SPIRITUAL, AMERICA has allowed ISRAEL to use this country as a CRUTCH, and yet, they continue to disrespect the SON of GOD, they refuse to accept JESUS CHRIST as the SON of THE MOST HIGH GOD.
AMERICA is connected to ISRAEL in the NATURAL REALM as well as THE SPIRITUAL REALM, and it would take until the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST TO EXPLAIN IT.
AMERICA is basically a CHRISTIAN COUNTRY, and those that are CHRISTIAN'S are told to pray for ISRAEL, and yes, we see, what is going on in the MIDDLE EAST, but if you read your BIBLE'S, this go's all the way back to ABRAHAM, some of you want BARACK to step up and prove that he can be the MAN, well, who know's what is going on behind the scene's? who know's what the PRESIDENT ELECT is doing as far as trying to calm the STORM? some of you want BARACK to prove that he is the MAN that he said he was, as far as CHANGE, you want BARACK to step all over BUSH and give a solution to this PARTLY MAN MADE MESS, well let me just say, that you people have a NERVE! I PRAY that BARACK is seeking direction from GOD, I PRAY that the same GOD that brought him through that HELLISH ELECTION will give him what to SPEAK and how to SPEAK IT, when it come's to those LEADER'S in the MIDDLE EAST.
GOD would not put the care's of this world all on the shoulder's of one MAN, so why should some of you? so I will continue to PRAY that ISRAEL will turn to our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, because ISRAEL hold's the key to PEACE in the MIDDLE EAST, and as long as they are out of order when it come's to GOD, ISRAEL will forever be in TURMOIL, and AMERICA will forever be their CRUTCH, until GOD say's otherwise.
OLD TESTAMENT
DEUTERONOMY:14:2
FOR thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy GOD, and the LORD hath CHOSEN thee to be a PECULIAR people unto himself, above all the nation's that are upon the EARTH.
ROMAN:10:21
BUT for ISRAEL he saith, ALL day long I have STRETCHED forth my hand unto a DISOBEDIENT and GAINSAYING PEOPLE.
DEFINITION for GAINSAYING:is STUBBORN,
Field you stepped on one today. Unfortunately this is not as simple as both peoples deserving to live in peace.
There are some hard facts that we cannot ignore and which exacerbate this situation. One of the more important ones that prompted the Hamas attacks was the blockade of Gaza. But more importantly everyone who I have talked to who has visited talk about the vile attitude the majority of Isrealis have toward the Palestinians. They degrade them with random shootings and raids. And even Isrealis have complained about how demeaning and petty the checkpoints are for those entering Isreal. Palestinian life is pretty cheap.
The Isrealis are occupiers. They occupy the West Bank and Gaza. Just like the president to be said about the silly rockets that silly Hamas keeps firing I too would want to defend myself. But I can't throw a rock and hide my hand either, or make things as miserable and oppressive for someone and pretend they have no right to respond to the oppression.
The Isreali government keeps saying they want peace while enforcing a blockade that has kept some food and medical supplies out of Gaza and then by overreacting to the reaction they were sure to get. The Isreali gov't is playing a mean game because they know the governments of the West side with them.
Field I am sure you are well informed but you ought to hear the real accounts of whats its like to live day to day under Isreali occupation. And keep in mind we get an almost news black out about some of the really cruel and heartless policies that the Israeli's have carried out against the Palestinians.
And let me just close out this frustrating discussion by saying that I disagree with Hamas and the terrorist solution. But I understand and I wouldn't be arrogant enough to tell them how to fight back. But if I did have a voice I would suggest that they organize the entire society to resist and to do it in militant and non-violent ways which would get them the attention that they deserve.
Isreal is ultimately wrong because they have the power to create a two state system that does not have to exploit its neighbors. But no matter what folks say, the Isreali ruling class likes this power relation and thus they are not interested in any real solutions or "peace" as they like to say. They are more than a little full of it.
liberation then peace
This is what HAPPENS when people BELIEVE in RIDICULOUS superstitions and then start to DEMONIZE those who don't BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY DO.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a religious conflict that politics will not be able to solve.
God does not want man killing man.
Field,
I hate to say it, but I think you have exhibited HN behavior on this one. It even surpasses Ken Blackwell. Hell, at least Blackwell has an excuse. He wants to be RNC chairman. What's your excuse? Are you planning to move to Israel so you can avoid that run down Broad St?
I think there will be an international backlash against Israel on this one. To kill hundreds of Palestinians versus 5 Israelis is outrageous! Nothing can JUSTIFY that kind of killing.
Field, you write against the outrageous killings in the streets of Philly, yet you support Israel's massive killings of Palestinians? It makes no sense to me.
I am looking forward to your answer to "That Girl's" question re: the relationship between Jews and Blacks. For me, the answer isn't that complicated.
BTW, I am not a follower of Farrakhan but do you think you will he remain mute on this? I don't think so.
I think that Obama will do his best in helping to solve this crisis before or even while he begins working on fixing our own government. The question that we discussed on our site was whether this will hinder or help the new administration- (http://theloop21.com/forums/gaza-crisis).
Sorry, Field, I agree with most here. Israel is NOT justified in it's actions. You cannot bomb your way to peace, period. BOTH sides need to realize this. But we also need to admit this aint a fair fight of "equals." Israel needs to stop building settlements in the occupied territories, respect the 67 boundries (UN Resolution that called for those boundries) and stop using apartheid tactics against the Palestinian people... separate roads that only Israelis can drive on, check points INSIDE Palestine, not at the borders as some assume, and stop denying food, medicine and humanitarian aid.
And Sharon from WI, critisizing Israel is not anti-semetic... Israel is a nation/state. There are many Jews around the world AND INSIDE Israel that are as horrified by their actions as I am. Bat Shalom, Women in Black and many other human rights and peace groups in Israel oppose the occupation and military actions. There are resisters to the Israeli army and lets not forget that Israel is the ONLY nation in the region that possesses nuclear weapons and lies about it, denying they have them when everyone knows they do (Thank you Mordichai Vinunu).
Bottom line Field--the Muslim world has it's head up it's ass. The West Palestinians could care less, the Egyptians don't want to get involved, the only people who are roiling with revenge are the wackos in Pakistan.
Israel isn't going anywhere. if the Palestinians want a nation, then Hammas is going to have to learn how to give jobs, create opportunity, etc and stop wearing bedsheets and Halloween masks.
If that sounds bad to some of you, deal with it. Because I have no doubt it will be Hillary & Barack's position.
PS I blogged on this Jena 6 knucklehead. Good lord...
"If the roles where reverse I couldn't imagine Jews doing this for us. Heck there are many white jews who are racists against jews of color so what does that say?"
Yo, "That Girl" some of us died so you could vote.Couldn't imagine you doing that for us. Then some of us died as a result of black lynch mobs in which your community leaders condoned or labeled "tension betweeen communities" in which both sides were to blame. Ever notice blacks never see it this way when it's a black man dangling from a tree? Hmmm.
As far a white Jews being racist against Jews of color... I just got back from Africa and you know what? There are a lot of blacks who are really racist again other blacks. Look at the behavior of your people regarding women and gays. The worst of any ethnic group. Jamacians treat gays with more contempt then the KKK treated you. BTW, maybe you haven't noticed, but your "civil rights leaders" often seem to be playing by the KKK handbook. This "white Jews are racist again Jews of color" babble is weak. Guess what? Africans often act like the Klan towards women, gays, Jews, Asians. Trying holding yourself to some standard, for a change, before you start pointing the finger at everyone else like always.
"I remember I asked her why see did this - never peace for Africa to cure the AIDS crisis or peace for the children living in Haiti who have to deal with rebels and coups...you get my point. If the roles where reverse I couldn't imagine Jews doing this for us. Heck there are many white jews who are racists against jews of color so what does that say?"
I have asked myself this many times ove.
No clear answers.
Field,
Blago just created the next news cycle. Electing a black guy to the Senate. How crazy is this going to get?
"Hey Field why haven't you mentioned anything about the mudering[sic] SOBs who are supposedly God's people. "
Um, does he mean Nation of Islam? Or Muslims in general?
Follow this link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7708169.stm
The Israelis don't stone 12 year old girls to death for being gang raped. The Israelis don't murder people for being gay. A lot of African's do though......
I don't agree with what Israel is doing. The reaction to Hamas is disportionate. More than 300 palestinans killed. Wow! You can't bomb your way to peace. Mr. Bush taught us that.
Grata- try reading the post above yours. Really.
That Girl,
From a southern perspective, the relationship between Blacks and Jews allowed for blacks to have in some instances a more civilized life during the entire period of Jim Crow.
With few or no Black doctors or lawyers in some communities, Jewish doctors and lawyers fill the needs of the community. Most often the Atticus Finch's were Jewish. Something as simple as being able to rent a facility to have an event, not church related, depended upon a Jewish Realtor or one of their facilities. A grocery owned by Jews would be located in the community, which provided convenience. One always had to travel to be provided needed services by white folks. Even Jews who were products of the southern way, did seem to offer an empathy, trust and more respect.
I am not sure if I have described exactly the relationship, because these observations are mostly from my childhood.
fyi. arabs don't treat palestinians well.
The number of Palestinian refugees by country as of 2005 were as follows:
• Jordan 1,827,877 refugees
• Gaza 986,034 refugees
• West Bank 699,817 refugees
• Syria 432,048 refugees
• Lebanon 404,170 refugees
• Saudi Arabia 240,000 refugees
• Egypt 70,245 refugees[1]
• In 1957, the Refugee Conference at Homs, Syria, passed a resolution stating that "Any discussion aimed at a solution of the Palestine problem which will not be based on ensuring the refugees' right to annihilate Israel will be regarded as a desecration of the Arab people and an act of treason.[23][24]
• The Arab League issued instructions barring the Arab states from granting citizenship to Palestinian Arab refugees (or their descendants) "to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their right to return to their homeland
• Syrian Prime Minister, Khalid al-Azm, wrote in his 1973 memoirs:
• Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees [...] while it is we who made them leave. [...] We brought disaster upon [...] Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave. [...] We have rendered them dispossessed. [...] We have accustomed them to begging. [...] We have participated in lowering their moral and social level. [...] Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon [...] men, women and children-all this in the service of political purposes.
• Jordan is the only Arab country which uniformly gave citizenship rights to Palestinian refugees present on its soil. Other countries, especially Lebanon, gave citizenship to a fraction of the refugees.[citation needed] However, there remain a huge number of refugees living in camps in Jordan, and in fact it has the largest such population with over one million Palestinian refugees.[26]
• After the 1967 Six-Day War, during which Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan, Palestinian Arabs living there continued to have the right to apply for Jordanian passports and live in Jordan. Palestinian refugees actually living in Jordan were considered full Jordanian citizens as well. In July 1988, King Hussein of Jordan announced the severing of all legal and administrative ties with the West Bank. Any Palestinian living on Jordanian soil would remain and be considered Jordanian. However, any person living in the West Bank would have no right to Jordanian citizenship.
• Jordan still issues passports to Palestinians in the West Bank, but they are for travel purposes only and do not constitute an attestation of citizenship. Palestinians in the West Bank who had regular Jordanian passports were issued these temporary ones upon expiration of their old ones, and entry into Jordan by Palestinians is time-limited and considered for tourism purposes only. Any Jordanian citizen who is found carrying a Palestinian passport (issued by the Palestinian Authority and Israel) has his/her Jordanian citizenship revoked by Jordanian border agents.
• More recently, Jordan has restricted entry of Palestinians from the West Bank into its territory, fearing that many Palestinians would try to take up temporary residence in Jordan during the Al-Aqsa Intifada. This has caused many hardships for Palestinians, especially since 2001 when Israel discontinued permission for Palestinians to travel through its Ben Gurion International Airport, and traveling to Jordan to fly out of Amman became the only outlet for West Bank Palestinians to travel.
• Information from the Jordanian censuses which distinguishes between Palestinians and pre-1948 Arab-Israeli War Jordanians is not publicly available, and it is widely believed that Palestinians in Jordan (domiciled in Jordan and considered citizens) constitute the majority of the kingdom's population. However, in a 2002 television interview on a US network, King Abdullah II of Jordan assured that "Jordanians of Palestinian Origin" are only 40-45% of the Jordanian population, and that an independent survey would be conducted to settle the matter.[27]
• As of December 2004, an estimated 240,000 Palestinians live in Saudi Arabia.[28]
• Since the first 100,000 Palestinians entered Lebanon in 1948, they have lived in "legal limbo."[29] The Palestinians' Lebanese camps became ghettos as the Palestinians were barred from citizenship, finding certain jobs, or traveling abroad.[29]
• Lebanon barred Palestinians from 73 job categories, including professions such as medicine, law and engineering. They are not allowed to own property. Unlike other foreigners in Lebanon, they are denied access to the Lebanese healthcare system. The Lebanese government refused to grant them work permits or permission to own land. The number of restrictions has been mounting since 1990.[30] In June 2005, however, the government of Lebanon removed some work restrictions from a few Lebanese-born Palestinians, enabling them to apply for work permits and work in the private sector.[31] In a 2007 study, Amnesty International denounced the "appalling social and economic condition" of Palestinians in Lebanon.[32] Many Lebanese deeply oppose expanding the Palestinians' rights.[29]
• Lebanon gave citizenship to about 50,000 Palestinian refugees during the 1950s and 1960s. In the mid-1990s, about 60,000 refugees who were Shiite Muslim majority were granted citizenship. This caused a protest from Maronite authorities, leading to citizenship being given to all the Palestinian Christian refugees who were not already citizens.[33] There are still about 350,000 non-citizen Palestinian refugees in Lebanon.
• In the 1940s, the Lebanese government registered most Palestinians as Arabs in order to get Arab funds from the Gulf states as well as UN grants to boost its corrupted economy and eliminate inflation. Noteworthy, according to official Palestinian estimates, a large number within the Palestinian refugees from the Acre region of British Palestine were adherers of the Shiite Islam of the Twelvers school, a minority being of Sunnite Islam of the Hanafite school, and most of non-Arab origins, including Turks, Azeris, Albanians, and Bosnians.[citation needed]
Following major armed conflict in one camp in 2007, the Lebanese government sought greater input into the rebuilding of the camp, and in the camp's ongoing management. The government wanted the ability to intervene in the future, and to exercise police powers there instead of the Palestinian armed forces that had policed the camp After the Gulf War of 1990-1991, Kuwait and other Gulf Arab monarchies expelled more than 400,000 Palestinian refugees and ended financial support of Palestinians[34]) in response to the PLO's support of Iraq during the invasion of Kuwait.
During Egypt's occupation of the Gaza Strip, Egypt denied the Gaza Strip's residents citizenship rights and did not allow them to move to Egypt or anywhere outside of the Strip. During the subsequent Israeli occupation of the Sinai (1967-1982), upwards of 5,000 Palestinian refugees from the Gaza Strip found themselves relocated to Canada Camp on formerly Egyptian soil. When Israel completed its withdrawal from the Sinai in 1982, these refugees fell on the Egyptian side of the border, and remained stranded; it took 18 years before they would be repatriated back to the Gaza Strip. Egypt today abides by the instructions of the Arab League concerning Palestinians of not granting them citizenship.
• previously.[29
• Palestinians in Iraq have come under increasing pressure to leave since the beginning of the Iraq War in 2003. Hundreds of Palestinians were evicted from their homes by Iraqi landlords following the fall of Saddam Hussein. 19,000 Palestinians, over half the community's number in Baghdad, have fled since that time, and remaining Palestinians regularly face "threats, killings, intimidation, and kidnappings". Several hundred refugees are trapped on the border with Syria, which refuses to grant them entry.[35][36]
• Palestinians face a difficult time in Iraq due to being predominantly Sunni Muslim and perceived as enjoying favored status under Hussein's rule.[35] Hussein had provided subsidized or free housing for Palestinians, did not force them to serve in the Iraqi military as most Iraqis did, and compensated those whose relatives had died in the 1948 conflict with Israel.[35] The UN Assistance Mission for Iraq said: "Killings, threats, intimidations and kidnappings are becoming the norm for Palestinians in Iraq. Many of these actions are reportedly carried out by the militias wearing police or special forces uniform[s]."[35]
Is caring for these not one of the pillars of Islam?
Git Some!
Do you thing Israel
I got a windy explanation from a Miami wingnut on my blog who says Obama is totally down with all of this because he doesn't want to have to deal with Hamas. Also that Rice is feeding Israel info they need which is hilarious since what would that dope know that Israeli intelligence doesn't know ? Have a look at this psychobitch's website, I caught her tonight explaining why Jews are better than Arabs....
sorry : http://tammybruce.com/ this is the site
Absolutely right, Jibreel. 3000 missile attacks deserves a severe response and Israel waited for the cease fire to begin. Some people are very generous with other peoples' money and land.
szpork
"If the roles where reverse I couldn't imagine Jews doing this for us. Heck there are many white jews who are racists against jews of color so what does that say?"
Damn that's a stupid comment. Girl, DO YOUR HOMEWORK!! Jews did do that for you dummy. Your statement is a slap in the face to so many whites and Jews who DID DO IT FOR YOU. Note: I would say exactly the same thing to a Jewish person who went on some "no one ever did anything for us" tangent. Gentiles died and were persecuted while attempting to save Jews from the Holocaust, whites and Jews died and were persecuted for defending blacks. Why are some people (and blacks aren't the only ones) intent on believing this "no one ever did shit for us" crap when the plain hard truth shows otherwise? The only way I can figure it is someone people HATE to be emotionally genereous. They do not want to feel humble or gracious for anything ever. They believe EVERYTHING that seems altruistic really has a hidden, self serving agenda. Amen.
"Grata- try reading the post above yours. Really."
And what was I supposed to read?
I have asked myself serious questions about the relationship between blacks and Jews. And I still have no answers. Simple as that. I think its is a legitimate to question that relatioship when one experiences racism from the same people one is supposedly allied with.
We can say thanks for fighting for our cause but we should also get to question you when you do us wrong.
Unfortunately one can not appear to question that relationship without appearing as ungrateful or anti-semitic.
Sometimes I feel that blacks are gagged when it comes to looking critically at Jews. You can't say anything about the people that fought with you.
There are plenty of Whites that fought for the cause (even before Jews got involved) but we still criticize whites anyway. But with Jews that is like sacred area. And that in itself is oppressive.
Something is twisted about the Black Jewish relationship. Firstly I don't think it is equal, and that is terribly wrong.
Grata,
I agree with you. Something is 'twisted' about the Black Jewish relationship. But it is 'twisted' only for some Blacks. I believe most Blacks on this thread are deluded about how the majority of Jews feel about them.
That's WHY "That Girl" and yourself have been attacked for merely asking an honest question. No one wants to face the truth. It's too painful. They'd much rather dream- 'Jews love us.' Note: That replaces the old HN dream- 'massa loves us.'
"That's WHY "That Girl" and yourself have been attacked for merely asking an honest question. No one wants to face the truth. It's too painful. They'd much rather dream- 'Jews love us.' Note: That replaces the old HN dream- 'massa loves us."
Some of the most devastating hypothesis regarding race have been crafted by both whites and Jews to the detriment of blacks. And it all started in biblical times.
But some how Jews (especially American white Jews) tend to get a free pass from blacks. Those that speak against the exploitative nature of the relationship become anti-semites. I have personally experienced racism from afew Jews and when I confronted one about his racist attitudes towards African Americans especially, his response was, that Jews should not be held at a higher standard from others. That it was unfair for them to be expected to be less racist because of their experience.
Now the question becomes, why do blacks tend to let Jewish racism slide? Of all other races Jews in America feel they have the right to insult blacks in the name of satire. And you rarely hear any outrage at this. Some even freely will use the N word and there is no outrage like you would have if some white person did that. I doubt that Jewish satire by blacks would go down well. This where you visibly see the inequality of that relationship.
Grata, see the last posts on the new blog.
Actually, some people still aren't catching HOW this abuki works. The world hears about Isreali retaliation and feigns the usual horror that they are defending themselves. Year in, year out, people keep falling for it.
It's feeble.
How many people really get that Hamas and Hizballah are Iranian proxy armies willing to fight to the last civilian?
Grata-“Now the question becomes, why do blacks tend to let Jewish racism slide?”
Like you, I have experienced racism from Jews. It hurt me more than a white person’s remarks. When I confronted them about their racist views, I didn’t get the “I apologize” or “I am sorry, it won’t happen again” that I had hoped for. Instead I got the same reply that you got- “that Jews should NOT be held at a higher standard from others. That it was unfair for them to be expected to be less racist because of their experience.”
I have since heeded those words and lowered my expectations of Jews. I now assume that most Jews will have the same racist attitude toward Blacks as most Whites do. My heart has been much better off as a result. I BET other Blacks have had similar experiences, also.
Imo, MOST Blacks have at least a ‘little bit’ of House N in them which blinds them when it comes to Jewish racism. Although I must admit Field has ONE that tips the scale of House N behavior. However, one undesirable quality out of ‘many’ good ones still puts him ahead of most humans.
I DO believe that Israel, like any other country, has the right to exist and defend itself. But African-Americans, who support Israel’s massive killing of Palestinians in Gaza, YET remain tepidly quiet while 45-50 thousand defenseless Africans die MONTHLY, is downright sickening.
Blacks fool themselves into believing that the Jews will eventually love us and treat us equally and fairly. Isn’t that what we thought and hoped for centuries about Whites?
Anyway, that’s my take WHY Blacks have let Jewish racism slide. MOST of it has to do psychologically with our own LOW self-worth as African-Americans. Otherwise, “That Girl’s” aunt would have been praying just as hard for millions of suffering Africans, and Field wouldn’t be giving Blacks a history lesson that favors only Israel.
Field, what most people are unaware off in the Middle East conflict is the battle is really over WATER. The region has been drying out for a long time and water is in short supply. (Hell, its in short supply all over the world.)But the increasing population coupled with the normal aquatic demands of industrialization and modern living have severely exacerbated the problem in the region. Solve the water problem and you will soon have peace.
"Anyway, that’s my take WHY Blacks have let Jewish racism slide. MOST of it has to do psychologically with our own LOW self-worth as African-Americans. Otherwise, “That Girl’s” aunt would have been praying just as hard for millions of suffering Africans, and Field wouldn’t be giving Blacks a history lesson that favors only Israel."
Anonymous,
Your post is pretty sobering.
I am not against a Black/Jewish alliance but like any relationship it has to be healthy. The Jews benefitted greatly from the Alliance and have milked it to the fullest. Blacks got too emotionally invested and with that low esteem have been exploited by that relationship.
White American jews will NEVER see blacks as equals. I believe you have a better chance of getting that from other Whites, even though that is highly unlikely. But I would put my bets on whites.
Grata,
"White American jews will NEVER see blacks as equals. I believe you have a better chance of getting that from other Whites, even though that is highly unlikely. But I would put my bets on whites."
Some Jews don't see Whites as equals. And some Whites feel the same about Jews. But neither will accept Blacks as equal at this juncture in human history. I won't say it will NEVER happen, but I am certain I will not live to see it.
In any case, I believe the immediate and most important matter for Blacks is to develop appropriate levels of self-esteem for THEMSELVES. As long as we continue to HOPE that the Jews or Whites will someday ACCEPT Blacks as equals, we will NEVER come to value our race or color as equal human beings.
And neither will anybody else.
anon,
go the FUCK back to whatever regressive little pustulent womb you crawled out of.
I take personal umbrage at your comments, and if you don't want to hear them, then close your bloody ears before I rip 'em off and get blood all over myself!
I am a white American Jew. I have Yemeni Jewish relatives. I believe firmly that every man is created equal, and I judge people accordingly -- based on their actions, not their words.
So it might be that you are not an oozing little lump of smegma. I don't know you, but if I did, I think I'd give you a shleck for my trouble.
On second thought?
You ain't worth the time.
go the FUCK back to whatever regressive little pustulent womb you crawled out of.
I take personal umbrage at your comments, and if you don't want to hear them, then close your bloody ears before I rip 'em off and get blood all over myself!
I am a white American Jew. I have Yemeni Jewish relatives. I believe firmly that every man is created equal, and I judge people accordingly -- based on their actions, not their words.
So it might be that you are not an oozing little lump of smegma. I don't know you, but if I did, I think I'd give you a shleck for my trouble.
Eww, thank goodness I have had lunch already. :-)
sharon,
lolz. did you catch sagacious hillbilly's post on turkeys? that's one for losing one's lunch over. good post though ;-)
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