O man you are killing me. Not because I am not doing cart wheels over your cabinet selections. I didn't expect to. I understand that it's your team, and you go to war with the soldiers you feel most comfortable with. And by golly if it means that you will have a successful run at this POTUS thing, then so be it. We will all benefit.
But you are killing me because I just read that Rick Warren of all people will be giving the invocation at your inauguration. I know why you are doing it, you want to show Christian conservatives that you are embracing them even though they didn't embrace you. My question to you would be why? Why invite the guy that set you up like some mob family rubbing out a rat? Did you really think that he was inviting you to his church for just a little sit down? I mean come on O man, who do you think Rick Warren really wanted to be president? I will give you a hint; it wasn't your black behind. And don't for a minute think that just because the Queen of Soul will be singing you are off the hook. She hasn't had a hit in forever, and you should know that.
Rick Warren? Something about the guy creeps me out. I know you are going to be saying your full name (Barack Hussein Obama) and you are scared that Joe A-merry-ca is going to be linking you to the whole Muslim thing; so what better way to assure him that you are a real Christian than to showcase Rick Warren.
But you are killing me because I just read that Rick Warren of all people will be giving the invocation at your inauguration. I know why you are doing it, you want to show Christian conservatives that you are embracing them even though they didn't embrace you. My question to you would be why? Why invite the guy that set you up like some mob family rubbing out a rat? Did you really think that he was inviting you to his church for just a little sit down? I mean come on O man, who do you think Rick Warren really wanted to be president? I will give you a hint; it wasn't your black behind. And don't for a minute think that just because the Queen of Soul will be singing you are off the hook. She hasn't had a hit in forever, and you should know that.
Rick Warren? Something about the guy creeps me out. I know you are going to be saying your full name (Barack Hussein Obama) and you are scared that Joe A-merry-ca is going to be linking you to the whole Muslim thing; so what better way to assure him that you are a real Christian than to showcase Rick Warren.
But you know what O man? At some point these other folks--- you know the ones who didn't vote for you-- -are just going to have to get over the fact that you won. And if you do a good job as their president, all these little tokenized (I made that word up) acts and the symbolism that goes along with them won't be necessary, because their lives will be better than it was before you became POTUS.
Oh well at least you have Joseph Lowery doing the benediction. May I add a few words of my own?
"For behold, Your enemies make an uproar, And those who hate You have exalted themselves." ~Psalm 83:2 ~
Amen.
110 comments:
Horrible choice of pastor. Was Pat Robertson too busy on January 20th?
Field, Did you finish this post?
Are you drunk or something? Where is the other half of this post? Don't you think 8 PM is a bit early to be plastered?
He is bending over backwards for these people, and will get nothing for it.
I think of the words of "Dathan" in The Ten Commandments flick: "What do you think of your Deliverer [Moses] now?"
Dont hate on Aretha, her hits are timeless!!!
I just found out about this choice, too. As someone who is doing a pretty extensive battle with someone who claims to NOT be a Christian conservative (but who is clearly exhibiting all the signs), I can say that I'm not at all thrilled with Obama's choice here. I get the symbolism, and I get the message he's trying to send, but I agree with Mr. Chambers; if my experiences with Christian conservatives are any indication, President Obama's going to get nothing for the gesture.
Sorry guys I am finished now I don't know what happened there:) LOL!
Yeah, don't you be dissing Aretha. She's the Queen!
When I read about Rick Warren being invited to give the invocation, my first thought was a quote from the Sermon on the Mount: "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you" (Matthew 5:44). Likewise, in the Letter to the Romans, Paul writes: "Therefore 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.'" In other words, your enemy will be red-faced with shame.
Or maybe he really likes Pastor Warren. Time will tell.
I think the cover he gets is he can't be accused of not reaching out. surprisingly, this doesn't bother me. it is symbolic and has no substanative weight on what his policies will be. In fact, I think it is a really smart move.
I'm really not feeling all of this reaching out to the enemies by Obama. It's bad enough that his whole cabinet is full of Clintonistas who will certainly be caught up in scandal before the first year ends. Now he's sucking up to the haters who called him a Muslim. He better get in touch with reality before these people bring him down!
Rick Warren and those of his ilk are nothing more than apostate liars, preaching for prominence and profit, modern-day Pharisees..and Field you're exactly right.
I voted for Obama...but he's really starting to make me feel that he's nothing more than a opportunistic politician who is no different, therefore making "change" improbable...and more of the same inevitable.
Obama, Is getting on my last nerves and Rick Warren is A Purpose Driven lying phony!OBAMA...yES wE cAN....WHATEVER!
Personally, careless who gives the opening prayer. But I can understand why those who dislike Rick Warren would feel insulted by this pick. I get why he choose the guy most likely to show he's reaching out to his enemies.
However, I think he's now reaching the hell to far out for them!
This is a very disappointing choice. This guy is a charade and an opportunist. Big churches, big bucks, big egos. Haven't we had enough of that? Why have any religious figure up there? What about the poet laureate who could speak to the heart and soul of all Americans? Why not have one of them? This would have been the perfect time to begin to draw the line between church and state that has been overstepped so often by these heretics who call themselves Christian.
I rolled with the "killing them with kindness" for the campaign but this is a bit much. After all that hard work he(and we)should be enjoying this moment, dammit.
I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's positioning for 2012, because this is just ridiculous.
Now I love Aretha as much as anyone, really I do... but it just ain't the same. Ms. Patti would have been a better pick.
Geez. And I was so hoping that Rev. Arnold Conrad would've delivered the opening prayer. He did such a great job last time.
Hey, Field listen to this I visited some of the Republican websites and a lot of them are now pissed at Rick Warren...Some or calling him a traitor...lol
It looks like they are turning on old brother Warren. This picking Rick Warren was not such a bad idea after all.
"I rolled with the "killing them with kindness" for the campaign but this is a bit much. After all that hard work he(and we)should be enjoying this moment, dammit..."
Obamaholics, I don't want to be a "killjoy", but....come on now, Rick Warren?
And anon. I hear you about the rethugs being mad at Warren, which proves my point. These folks won't be feeling Obama no matter what he does.
This negro ain't even been inaugurated but the bloom is coming off brotha Obama, huh folks?...and I thinks we be hoodwinked.
Is he really the president for "change"? Coddling right wingers and Judas like Lieberman...running on the meme for "change", but voted for the FISA bill, appointing Clinton as SOS and a cadre of her and Bubba's loyalists.
Look FNs, I know many here voted for this brotha but now the campaigning shit is over (and all that starry-eyed, infatuation of this "new negro",) it looks like the O man is nothing more than a half-black, half-white, pseudo-progressive, middle-to-right, elitist unknown leading us down the primrose path to "change"...but not the "change" you've been led to believe or voted for...but "change" you'll have no choice but to accept...sorta like fascism with a smiley face.
wake up people..."change" will never happen as we are nothing more than slaves to our "american dream"
and the way things are headed...it will become a nightmare for more and more of us.
wake up...
president obama is the head of the largest organized land mass in the history of the world. it includes every race and nationality on the planet. it is connected state of the art from coast to coast by land,sea, air, and rail. it has the most varied and comprehensive media system in the world. president obama is a chief with no indians. there are no black senators, only one black supreme court justice,and 2 governors. to survive he will have a lot of strange bedfellows. he may not get attend a black church regularly for the next 8 years. i have found few people who can grasp the enormity of the job of president of the u.s. the way the constitution is set up you can't win by a land slide. you have to bargain with everybody. the president rules by the power of pursausion. he has no absolute powers.
Come on folks, give a guy a break. This could be stragetic... or it could be just Obama's... eveyone has something to offer and we need to listen to everyone. Obama is about change Rick Warren exemplifies this. Rick and his "small groups" and "purpose driven life" has rejunvenated the Christian religion. Isn't Obama about "change" and rejunvenation. Obama needs to gather around him those who believe as he does.
This is for the christian conservatives, he will get some more supports out of this. I would have not picked Rick Warren. Aretha is working in studio, from an interview I heard friday, doubt if a hit come from her. I dont think using his full name will cause any problems.
"Obamaholics, I don't want to be a "killjoy", but....come on now, Rick Warren?"
Field, you alright? Put down the likka. I'm in agreement with you. I'm disgusted with this decision.
Well said BIWTICAN.
Obama is just giving a little foreplay before he pulls out the heavy machinery. He's showing these people he isn't trying to hold grudges and settle scores, just do the best job he can. When he has oppose them it will make it easier.
BIWTICAN.... You said what exactly what I knew the day Obama won. Obama is going to have show that he is wiling to reach across the all party lines in order to stay on top.
But I feel his supports who think Obama is not living up to what they thought he stood for in the campaign. I never had any illusions of who Obama is and the simple truth is Obama is just Politican not god.
Okay. I might be putting my head out on the chopping block but....here it goes. Maybe PEO is stating we don't have to fight fire with fire on his choice of Rick Warren. Where does one get fighting fire with fire? It's love that win people over. Hatred stirreth up strifes but love covereth all sins. Rick Warren may have allowed McCain to cheat but that doesn't mean PEO has to be hard-hearted against him. Didn't he promise change in the White House? Maybe Rick Warren will see things differently by having PEO reaching out in kindness to him. What better way to say...see, you did me wrong but I am not like that! I'm just saying....
Obama just can't get his nose of the religious rightwinger's craw.
I'm beginning to get a bad case of buyers remorse.
This ranks as an even more dreadful choice than selecting the Borg Queen to be his Secretary of State.
Rick Warren was an early, and highly vocal supporter of Prop 8.
This is not change we can believe in. Obama needs a kick in his ass over this one.
All I can do is shake my head. (I'd rather see Rev. Wright, at least he knew the Word) Will O'Reilly be a speech writer? Will he start using FOX for his weekly addresses? I just don't understand.
Yeah, the O Man needs to heed all those progressives who supported him, helped elect him, with some appointments that reflect their views. Rick Warren, yeah, symbolism, but what about the agribusiness guy, Tom Vilsack? How regressive is that? C'mon.
President Elect Obama is trying to unite the country! He will be President of all of America, not just for his supporters!
We're so use to tit for tat and PE promised us change, now he's showing us how to get it done!
Look at the big picture!
I am a atheist and very much offended that anyone is saying a prayer at the inauguration or any other government event. But since this travesty seems inevitable, I am glad Obama picked a person who is so offensive to so many. Misery loves company.
I do not however see this as any indication of the job Obama will do as president. He will be a great president at a time when we really need one.
Amen Field! Tokenized=smoke and mirrors. This guy couldn't get a slice if God was on the menu.
Oh, and...
33 DAYS
1 Hrs 14 Mins 38.4 Secs
I'm kinda turned off by Obama's "we are the world" antics. I used to think he was genuinely like that. But now I have to question it. It woulda been hella cool if he had Farrakhan up there instead of ole dude. At least it would have given him cause for another speech about race.
Field,
I could spend all evening trying to wrap my brain around why exactly Barack would pick someone who is notoriously pro-life and anti GLBT. However, he made a lot of decisions in his campaign that I thought were a little strange, and lo and behold, it turns out in hindsight, he ran a brilliant campaign. I think this man is a whole lot smarter than the average Joe, and I think we are going to see him make a lot of decisions, that in the moment we do not clearly understand or agree with, but down the road we will have some understanding and maybe some appreciation for.
I do believe that one holds one's friends close, but one holds one's enemies closer.
Sen. Obama is not going to do very much in the next four years that's going to please me. He just isn't. Trust me, I've got instincts. However, I do expect my life to be much more pleasant, tolerable, and manageable because Obama's going to be the one choosing this country's direction.
So far, Sen. Obama is every bit as smart as I hoped he would be, even when he does (in my opinion) stupid, offensive things like giving this Warren-dude a platform to spew his bullshit.
You know what, though? Obama's got my trust, along with any hope I have for this country. For now.
The question with Obama has always been not "which side is he on?" but "does he know there are sides?" That is, sides besides those he can run his charisma on and those he can't. This suggests he's a little too infatuated with his own charisma. The side that isn't ever going to be with him is likely to surprise him with a whack upside the head.
I hate the choice of Rick warren. I am begining to worry about who is OB really trying to please, the people who voted for him or the people who voted against him.
Well, you can THANK CONGRESS. Obama did NOT invite or arrange for Warren to be there. Your own elected representatives made this choice for him and you, I guess.
He should fix it, but he's been a little busy lately. Look, I get that we're all a little damaged by Bush, but please give PE Obama the benefit of the doubt here. Damn, why is everyone so quick to jump on Obama's ass?
"This time, though, the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama's. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony. Congress, not Obama, invited Warren (as well as scheduling a musical performance by Aretha Franklin; here's hoping she doesn't reprise the 2005 inaugural performance of John Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar")."
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/
Stop Hating becuase I'm not. This was big for President Obama to chose Ricky Warner
This makes me mad, and it makes me pause.
I agree with Christopher. This schmuck was a vocal supporter of Prop 8 in CA. I see no way that Obama can slide around that issue. Basically he is saying that equality in marriage is wrong with this guy doing the invocation.
I am trying not to feel to dissapointed, but it does feel like a punch to the stomach. After 8 years of the errosion of civil rights I was hoping Obama would be different. Having Warren speak, I would have expected that from McCain.
I just don't get it. Hell Jesse Sr. could have done the invocation. grrr the more I think of this the angrier I am getting.
Field, if you knew so much about Obama and politics you wouldn't be running buck naked down Broad street in the middle of winter in Killadelphia.
Obama is including ALL of America in the inauguration of the next President of the US.
He has said he will be President of all the people. Or, have you forgotten?
GET USED TO IT!!....This is no ordinary President nor is it ordinary times.
You can't solve the problems of this country with the same old political mind that caused the problems.
It was NOT Obama who made this choice. See my post above.
Why is everyone so eager to jump on this dude? Damn, I have never seen anything like this before in my life. Obama hasn't even been sworn in yet, and every fucking thing is already his fault.
Again, PE Obama did NOT make this choice. Let's give him time to fix it...
GET USED TO IT!!....This is no ordinary President nor is it ordinary times.
You can't solve the problems of this country with the same old political mind that caused the problems
Say it!
This has something to do with rescuing Obama's religious integrity with regards to Rev. Wright. Not for himself or Wright but for public consumption. Granny has pointed out that Rev. Wright did nothing wrong and I'll take her word on it.
szpork
@Ady
Your post not withstanding, and I don't read every comment left for FN, most of the reports on TV tonight said he had chosen him to speak. Even the NYTimes said it was Obama's choice. Regardless if Obama or the committee chose him. Obama did not say no to the choice.
You know...it's probably a good thing for Obama that the only thing people can really bitch about with him are silly things like this. Seriously, who cares? Dude gives the opening prayer...like any of us are even going to watch/hear him. I'm all for keeping Obama honest...but some people I've seen comment on this are going too far in trying to say that this is an example of Obama turning his back on people that support him. Come on. Give me a break.
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Rick Warren has said some batshit things. Having him deliver the invocation legitimizes those statements, and elevates him to a higher platform. Obama could have chosen some random pastor without a history of calling for the assassination of world leaders or comparing homosexuality to incest, for example. Obama deserves all the criticism he's going to get.
@earlgrey
Blimey, you make me want a cup of tea. The truth about the Rick Warren choice can be found at www.salon.com/politics/war_room/ or whatever the link on my first post was.
I know the media is happy to find a sore spot now and to fan the flames, and I've heard almost every single news outlet report this incorrectly. According to what I read at salon earlier this is one reason : "Ever since Barack Obama was elected president, the media has been pining to write a story about liberal dissatisfaction with his transition efforts.
The press may now have its conflict moment. And it comes in the form of the spiritual leader chosen to launch Obama's inauguration."
I'm never going to believe any thing those fools on teevee say anymore.
PE Obama needs to fix this, but he's gonna need a little time. Why digest our own so quickly? It reminds me of the Republicans. Sigh...
@ Nelson
I agree with you, but why POUNCE on PE Obama so quickly w/o first letting our voices be heard and giving him a chance to fix it?
If he doesn't, then bring on the disgust, outrage, and whatever else he deserves...
Folks, this 2nd guessing has gotten OLD.
Barack is pretty smart. Remember, he beat both the Clintons and the Republican Smear Machine. And he didn't do it by playing political hopscotch - he played political chess like a pro. There's more to this selection than meets the eye. When it becomes clear, then we'll all say "OHH! NOW I get it!"
Give Obama a chance to do his job before throwing in the towel.
Hi Ady,
We are currently in the act of letting our voices be heard, aren't we?
"Oh now I get it. " What? Rick Warren is a brand, not a pastor. What he does is take the same views a hardass like James Dobson holds & packages them like they're reasonable. This is Obama's first really serious symbolic mistake, & the big problem is that he's stuck with it, & putting it out there on Jan 20 for the world to see. The LGBT community is not a loyal Democratic Party base - it is a DEMOGRAPHIC that votes liberal. There's no political justification for it, unless he's going on the results of Prop 8, in which case he should have invited Mr. Used-to-be-queer Donnie McClurkin instead of Aretha. It's shameful.
Hey there Field Negro!
*LOL* Yes you called it!
I tried to tell all these black folks who were caught up in "Obama-ssiah" that he was DEEPLY committed to appeasing white people and THAT would remain his goal if elected president.
And my, my, my....what do we see here?
He has a tiny, little handful of black women as appointees...COINCIDENTALLY a few of them happen to be biracial and "nearly-passing". No, stop it, he never noticed that Lisa Jackson looks like a white woman...no...THAT had nothing to do with perceptions that she would be more broadly accepted by whites!! Oh nooo...because hueism is just that silly little thing Spike Lee does movies about...
{raised brow}
Obama is surrounded by white advisors. This is why we see Rick Warren being placed in the coveted role instead of a distinguished black Christian leader.
How many black Christian leaders have held that role?
Nooo Obama can't be a trailblazer and appease whites at the same time...unless he's taken their GPS tracking on his route.
Hmmmph.
Wonder if his advisors would like Michelle to try a bit of that bleaching cream that is so popular? We know that the daughters can't show up at any formal occasions without their hair straightened...what's next? Dyeing the girls' hair blond like Beyonce maybe?
*chuckles*
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Oh come on people, this is dumb. He's not even president yet! What is this? Why are people so damned eager to turn their backs to him? Who the hell cares who prays with him? If it's gotten that petty then I should be offended because they have someone praying at the damned thing int he first place! lol But I understand that Obama is not just going to serve Atheists, he's serving Muslims, Christians, Jews, Wiccans, whatever! Warren Buffet isn't going to be changing his policies, nor is he going to start railing at gays and abortion at the inauguration either. He's just going to pray. That's all. Prayer should be the most uniting force for all you Christians, because no matter who's doing it, according to you guys it's all going to the same god right? lol
Remeber, just because Obama is president doesn't mean that everyone in America has the same views as you. There will always be people who are anti gay, and hates blacks or whites, or is anti Muslim. Pushing them out of something like the inauguration isn't going to make them change their minds. Let the man be.
Obama's trying to demonstrate that he's inclusive, so can we presume that he'll reach out to David Duke and make him the head of the Civil Rights Commission?
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There are going to be a lot of things from my perspective that a President Obama will do that will be wrongheaded.
Having Warren give the invocation seems silly. However it is in line with Obama's 2004 Democratic convention line "There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America".
So I don't think we should be too surprised. Obama sees himself as a liberal centrist. He's always tried to reach across party/philosophical lines, too much IMO , but that's who he is. It seems to have worked for him.
T.D.Jakes would have been a better choice.
Folks, I apologize for the spam creaping in here. Japanese companion? WTF?:(
Anywho, I hear the arguments on both sides. But you Obamaholics can't just go minimizing the symbolism of this selection. It's a foul pick no matter how you cut it. Black folks imagine how we would feel if an avowed racist was selected?
Orchid & Justice... we will give him a chance, like someone above said, and I said in my post: if he makes our lives better, so be it. He can use all the political chess and smoking mirrors that he wants to, as long as it helps him to achieve those goals. But call me old fashion, I prefer to dance with the girl I brought to the ball.
ITS A PRAYER...not a sermon, not a speech..A PRAYER.
No minimizing on my part, Field.
Rick Warren is the man who said "The love of same-sex couples for one another was akin to incest."
Rick Warren is the man who said, "The love of same-sex couples for one another was akin to pedophilia."
Barack Obama made this choice and he must and he will be held accountable.
There are many progressive, pro-gay preachers in this country Obama could have chosen but he didn't. He selected Rick Warren.
I suppose we should all feel lucky Adolf Hitler isn't alive or Obama, in the name of inclusiveness, would have asked him to be his emissary to Israel.
I don't think outrage at the pick is jumping off the bandwagon at all. But if you read the news today, regardless of the one article on Salon, the Obama camp is now defending his choice as inclusive. Like there are not a million other pastors in the US that would be just as inclusive without including hate groups?
It is my firm belief that being anti marriage equality is equivilent to homophobia. Itelligent design is creationism and anti gay marriage is fear and hate. This is plain and simple political pandering. Blackwomanblowthetrumpet is right. Including these conservative christian groups in a dialogue, engaging them is fine. But that does not obligate you to have them representing you. Which is what it is when you have him do the invocation at the inagural.
Christopher said: "
I suppose we should all feel lucky Adolf Hitler isn't alive or Obama, in the name of inclusiveness, would have asked him to be his emissary to Israel."
Well that's a little harsh there Kris. No everyone wants to be violated by Will Smith, you know.
szpork
Well that's a little harsh there Kris. No everyone wants to be violated by Will Smith, you know.
szpork
Porkie,
Hitler wants to be violated by Will Smith? Since Hitler is dead, how do you suppose this would happen?
You've gone from little sense to no sense.
I'll co-sign with BIWTICAN, Ady, Orchid, and others. Its no use in jumping the gun and pointing out every single detail that 9 times out of 10 will do little if any harm to our everyday lives. I'd save that for the other countless dolts making life annoying everyday. Like the article mentioned by Ady, B.O. probably had no say or doesn't have the time to plan each and every event happening come inauguration. Even if he did choose Warren, so what? That just means they get paraded in front of an international audience and ACTUAL citizens can take note!!!
I'm not an "Obamaholic" or whatever term folks use in pop culture. I just don't allow trivial happenings to effect what I do on a day-by-day basis. This man will NOT be perfect during his term(s) nor will any of the other 299,999,999+ folks roaming the prairie. If he flunks the test, just treat him like folks did Bush, I guess...and yeah, the Farrakhan suggestion seems like a cool deal, though I'm not sure that would go over well in general...LOL!!!
Actually, I see the political acumen Obama in choosing Warren to do the benediction. Obama has said countless times that he was going for inclusion, and that means courting those the evangical christians as well. Obama not only mentioned the people who voted for him, but the ones who did not, and he is the President of the United States including to the people who did not vote for him.
It's time for us to get practical and stop being reactionary and emotional and look at the move as political because that's what it is. We are living in tough economic times, and Warren giving the prayer invocation is the least of our problems. Let's have some perspective people.
Hi Earlgrey, and Nelson:
Yep, we're making our voices heard now. I haven't seen the news yet this morning (yawn), but one of you guys said the Obama camp is now defending the committee's choice? Aw hell, that's just wrong. So, more voices will now join in to let them know this is wrong. (Hmmm...this might be a political move, though, to provide cover for the abortion and birth control/morning after pill laws he's going to overturn as one of the first things he does after January20th--Bush's Law of Conscience will be out the door, hopefully. So, maybe he's throwing a bone to the conservatives--I'm just speculating).
Well, my voice will now join those of the gay community, and I'll be e-mailing PE Obama's Headquarters. Thanks for letting me know that, guys (I just need some coffee first).
I think having Rick Warren there is ultimately meaningless and won't have any substantive effect on Obama's policies. I can't help feeling disappointed in Obama, who could've gone with a number of progressive preachers. It's a shame that someone so blatantly anti-gay would be invited in the name of "inclusiveness".
My first reaction was that this was Obama's white side in action.
We tend to easily forget that he is part white, and is in many ways.
I am not really that worked up about the choice. Obama's cabinet picks are not his best friends either. Some would probably make worse adversaries than Rick Warren. Also, the guy champions causes that are close to Obama like AIDS and Poverty.
Remember, him and Michelle took AIDs tests in Kenya to encourage people to test themselves. There is a big opportunity in Rick Warren. American evangelism is huge in Africa. Getting a person like Warren on his side is not a very bad idea. Some of history's biggest achievements do come out of unlikely partnerships. Bush championed AIDS issues in Africa and the results actually show.
Also remember this guy has an evangelical voice and audience and would be Obama's harshest critic on upcoming social issues like abortion, stem cell research etc. Doing the inauguration would take down his attacks afew notches. He wouldn't compromise himself by openly attacking him.
Lisa,
You normally bring thought-provoking dialogue to the blogs, but this time you are out of line.
Accusing Obama of hueism is a bit overboard. The man didn't play racial politics during the campaign. Why should he play racial politics now?
If there are a tiny number of black women in his cabinet, did you ever consider that that might be the case because there are a small number of black women power players in Washington who have the insight and expertise to function in his cabinet?
The only people who will be disappointed in Obama are those on the far left and those who black folks who expect something from Obama.
I don't know what else to say.
Okay, I've got my coffee now. Also, I just want to let you guys know what's going on in our schools down here in Upstate SC. My son is a huge Obama fan and he's got two Obama t-shirts which he loves. Anyway my son is teased relentlessly whenever he wears one of his Obama shirts, but has some of his mother's blood in him, b/c he fights back with his voice and the facts. Here's the ignorance from the kids down here:
"Hopefully Obama's execution date will be Jan. 21st."
“Obama really should be hung.”
"You need to burn those t-shirts--he deserves to burn."
"Why would a white kid like Obama, anyway?" (This is the one my son hates the most. Bless his heart, he keeps calmly confronting this kind of ignorant hatred).
"He's a Muslim who likes his fellow terrorists."
Oh, did I mention that my son is only 12 years-old? He is, and he argues with the facts, never gets angry and is MY hero. I tell you this b/c now we have racist e-mails circulating down here between many of the teachers in many of the school districts this morning. (Sigh. Big sigh).
I did e-mail Obama headquarters. I’ve also called the superintendent of two of the school districts here. This is getting ridiculous.
I don't find Obama's choice of Warren to give the prayer nor any of his cabinet picks disturbing.
What I find disturbing is the hypocrisy of Obama and many Democrats in Washington when it comes to school vouchers. One the one hand they will not support school vouchers, but on the other hand they will not send their children to public schools.
I question the choice, but a few people here have complained it gives Warren a "legitimate forum" for his views.
The man has one of the biggest mega-churches around. As despicable as his views may be to many of us, this is hardly going to boost Warren. Now he's getting falk from conservatives. Whatever gains Warren makes from this, if any, will likely be offset by people who will be disgusted at him being around Obama.
Now, if Warren starts decrying sam-sex unions or something during the invocation, we have a problem...but if the man goes that route, I would imagine we'd see quick repudiation.
Yes, Obama could have requested any number of alternate pastors from this wide nation. Clearly, he has some reason for not doing so, whether it's just that he figured vetoing the choice would make him look like he's shutting dissenting voices out or because he thinks he can pull something positive out of this.
He's not perfect. His choices will piss us off at times. But there are bigger things here than to fret about who gives a stinking prayer, even at his inauguration.
My God, Bush plunged us into war, raped our environmental regulations, blew our budgets for 8 years, took away our civil rights and so much more, and we're gonna bitch about a guy who already has a huge audience for his views regardless giving a prayer?
Warren ain't a sweetheart, but he ain't the worst I've seen among preachers...and with all due respect, Christopher, this ain't the right place to be making Hitler comparisons I suspect.
"Keep your friends close, but keep your enimies closer"!
Michael Corleone - Godfather 11
Hey, guys, I wanted to clarify. I e-mailed Obama headquarters about the Rick Warren dude.
The other stuff on my post above this one is just a few of the things I am dealing with in the public schools here in Upstate, SC.
(Sorry. I'll get more coffee now).a
And another thing...
...how many of us here were so pissed off at McCain-Palin when they skewered Obama on his talk of meeting with world leaders whom we think are despots and murderers?
They ridiculed his idea of meeting them "without preconditions."
And most of us here thought that was petty shit.
So why are we so quick to demand that he give the boot to a guy on the basis of not liking GBLT issues or whatever else. Bad as Warren might be, he isn't a totalitarian despot that's killing his people, so let's back off the hypocrisy a bit, OK?
I mean, didn't we learn jack shit from 8 years of Bush and Cheney? Are those on the left going to take this chance to be JUST AS BAD...or worse...than the right-wingers were?
Let's fucking turn a corner already and start figuring out how a country full of people who don't agree on shit can work together to fix things.
" May I add a few words of my own?
"For behold, Your enemies make an uproar, And those who hate You have exalted themselves." ~Psalm 83:2 ~ "
Um, Field...you mean, a few words of King David. (But great scripture!)
and I agree with Black Rose...TD Jakes!
The Warren choice isn't going to turn around any of Obama's haters, but I figure he has to throw these people a bone from time to time. Warren has been asked to do the invocation, not to be a cabinet member.
I just don't think it's all that serious. He's not appointing him to anything or putting him in charge of anything. He's not even choosing him as his new personal pastor (at least not yet). It's an honorary frivolity and the dude will be speaking for like 10 minutes. So what? Why not make a gesture when the gesture doesn't have any real repercussions?
I agree poeticwax:
Warren will speak for a few minutes and no one will remember what he said. Does anyone remember who give the invocation at Bush's inauguration four and eight years? I also recall about just as many black evangical christians purchased Warren's book as well. Personally, I really do not see the difference in Warren than other of his precessors, he is a horse of a different color. He managed to do excellent PR for himself.
Why exactly is there an invocation in the first place?
Ady, I'm glad you (accidentally) shared the story about your son. It's easy for those of us who feel hurt and offended by the choice of Warren (a homophobe and Your-uterus-belongs-to-the-state bigot) to forget how deeply entrenched are the obstacles we all still face in creating consensus so we can work together on solving our problems. I've been wrestling with this chose: why would Obama risk alienating so many of his supporters? he's not stupid. But whether its the Machiavellian/godfather interpretation (hold your enemies closer) or the idea that inclusion is a better way to change people's minds than yelling at them (could we move this influential man's mind, the way so many Republicans WERE moved to vote for Obama?), I am going to remember that it's people like your son who are on the frontlines, standing up for all of us by standing up for themselves. Tell your son that I think he is awesome!
Classical one...
Why do we do any of this stuff? Tradition. LOL. People don't like to change comfortable traditions
Same reason why the Pledge of Allegiance is said in so many schools and the Natinal Anthem sung at sporting events...prayer is part of political event. If I recall, there is a prayer before every meeting of Congress (and I don't think it has always been Christian prayers, though the vast majority would be I'm sure)
Field,
I have heard Warren speak a few times (on TV) I think Obama could have done a lot worse. He never tried to disassociate himself with Christians anyway - he is one. But he is not one of those evangelical lunatics. Rick Warren from all I have seen is no Pat Robertson or James Dobson.
Would you folks sit back and relax and that includes you LGBT folks as well. Stop getting on the defensive, there is no need too. Obama did not pick Warren as an insult or offense against any one group, it has nothing to do with that. He said that he would be the president of all the people, and he meant that. He has his reasons for picking Warren, and all I can say on the matter is he KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. He knows that most of those he picked are against him, but he has his reasons for picking them. Change is definitely coming and even those he picked can and will see that. He definitely knows what he is doing and he has his reason for doing it the way he is doing it, its just that many of you can't see it right now. However, go back and reflect on a lot of political moves Obama made that folks didn't understand that turned out to be smart moves in the end.
Most people thought that Samson became blind when the Philistines put his eyes out. However, he was blind before that. He was blind to what God's purpose was for him in his life. Samson had lost his eyesight and he had to be incarcerated so God could give him some insight. Sometimes folks need to get off to themselves with no outside interference so that they can get some insight as well.
"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."
"For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:"
I wish each and every one of you a very blessed and victorious Christmas. Like Coretta Scott always said, "If you gone stand for anything, stand for righteousness.
Whelp, its time for Granny to go into solitude. I'm like a bear, I hibernate in the winter. I love all of you.
Same reason why the Pledge of Allegiance is said in so many schools and the Natinal Anthem sung at sporting events...prayer is part of political event. If I recall, there is a prayer before every meeting of Congress (and I don't think it has always been Christian prayers, though the vast majority would be I'm sure)
I understand your point, however, we have (supposedly) separation of church and state. The National Anthem and the Star Spangled Banner are directly related to and about the United States, the Christian religion is not; nor did the framers intend it to be.
The choice of Rick Warren is a horrible, horrible mistake...and if I hear one mo time from PE about trying to reach "common ground"...I am gonna puke--there is no common ground in religion..and politics.
Obama did not pick Warren as an insult or offense against any one group, it has nothing to do with that. He said that he would be the president of all the people, and he meant that.
So we should expect speakers who represent anti-Semites, the KKK and perhaps, serial killers too?
B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.
I finally get the Rick Warren choice...it took me awhile to configure it..Since that old timer Billy Graham is ailing (who seems to have inaugration (like for ever)...this is PE Obama's moment for a Rev Billy Graham replacement/wannabee. All along I've prayed and prayed not to have to endure or listen to Rev Billy Graham or his son, Franklin at any of PE Obama's events, and what does the PE elect do, being a politician thru and thru he gives us Rick Warren--America's pastor!
The more things change---the more they stay the same.
TO GOD BE THE GLORY, FOR THE GOOD THING'S HE HAS DONE, as I read all of the comment's, I was waiting to hear someone in defense of (GOD) but, it was far and in between, I am a MINISTER, as well as a CHRISTIAN, now I don't know what's going on in AMERICA? but, we will stand up for GAY RIGHT'S before we will stand up for GOD! people remember GOD? remember when their was FEAR and RESPECT for HIM? but it seem's as if at that name, their is a anti GOD MOVEMENT, oh we cover it up with EQUAL RIGHT'S for GAY'S and LESBIAN'S, but,what it really mean's is "GOD'S WORD" IS NULL AND VOID, in other word's what we are saying is "WHEN GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS IMAGE, HE MADE A MISTAKE" so man decide's to twist thing's around, so it will please him, so we have thrown GOD under the bus, and when someone try's to attempt to pull him out their is ANGER AND RAGE, when certain PASTOR'S come forth and say "MARRIAGE is suppose to be between a MAN and a WOMAN, those PASTOR'S are condemned, and yet they are SPEAKING IN BEHALF OF GOD, and they should, because this is the WORD OF GOD, they did not write it, and they sure better not change it, so if RICK WARREN "SAY'S HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong, then don't get angry at him, but, instead go to GOD and ask him "why he would even bother to create WOMEN? so in closing, when it is all said and done, TWO MEN cannot reproduce, but, a MAN and a WOMAN can, and neither can TWO WOMEN, so GOD has the UPPER HAND, not MAN, so I will stand with GOD.
PROPHETESS WALLACE
"I finally get the Rick Warren choice...it took me awhile to configure it..Since that old timer Billy Graham is ailing (who seems to have inaugration (like for ever)...this is PE Obama's moment for a Rev Billy Graham"
Exactly. Rick Warren as America's next Pastor needs to be neutralized before hand. Pators'
messages go far and wide.
I remember during Clinton's Scandal, American Pastors on the Christian Networks were divided over it. And their opinions were being broadcast through out the World. TD Jakes was a great defender of Clinton.
American evangelism is international. And Pastors are able to say things freely that politicians won't. Pat Robertson and Hagey being the most controversial ones.
If this guy becomes critical of Obama, the whole world will hear it. His book is considered to be one of the most influential books. Obama the politician needs to keep this guy close.
Field, I ain't feeling the O man anymore. At least I will save some money as I have cancelled my plans to be in D.C. - will watch on the tube.
Hell he could have drop down to my hometown and picked kirbyjon or Joel Osteen or Dallas for their nationally known preachers.
He continues his denoucement of Wright and Farrakan but embrace and give greater credentials to this guy - that's a house negro move.
Trust me, gay people have always been around and they'll always be around. What's actually a little sadder here is Obama's apparent naivete.
The Christian right wing doesn't respect him in the slightest. Not even Warren himself, who flat-out ran a setup on Obama with that rigged debate with McCain.
The most I can say for this move is that maybe it will provide Obama with cover for taking policy actions that go against what those nutcases want. Maybe he can claim to be reaching out.
We shall see, huh?
Hmm, maybe this isn't as bad as it looks. The word is that Obama's getting ready to name a gay Navy secretary, as part of a push to repeal Don't Ask/Don't Tell.
So: They get a prayer, and we get a gay Navy secretary and the ability to say that everyone's being heard. I'm not sure you have to be from Chicago to realize that maybe that's a pretty good trade.
WHAT do you people want from BARACK OBAMA? he has gone through hell and high water, can any of you imagine how it must feel for him, when part's of WHITE AMERICA DENOUNCE HIM, let's not forget BARACK is BIRACIAL.
BARACK has to be under constant security, and yet some people want him to go and bring REV.WRIGHT and FARRAKAN to stand by his side, you must be kidding? let me make this as clear as I can. A AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN has been elected, as the PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATE'S of RACIST AMERICA.
FARRAKAN is a MUSLIM, REV. WRIGHT said "GODDAMN AMERICA", REV.WRIGHT, has received DEATH THREAT'S, he has to have BODY GUARD'S, WHITE AMERICA do not like MUSLIM'S regardless of what, case in point, FARRAKAN, so what doe's all of this mean? it mean's that their is no way in the world BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA cannot and better not be seen anywhere near these two men at this point, now I believe thing's will change once he really become's PRESIDENT, BARACK is determined to get into the WHITE HOUSE by any MEAN'S NECESSARY, and beside's has anyone noticed that when it is all said and done that "BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA" will be this country's next PRESIDENT, now is this suppose to be? can somebody say "HOUSE NEGRO'S deserve a pat on the back every now and then"?
RICK WARREN IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CHOICE THAT MANY OF US WOULD MAKE TO GIVE A TWO-MINUTE SPEECH, AND I AGREE THAT PERCEPTION IS A PRECURSOR TO REALITY. BUT AFTER RICK WARREN'S 15 MINUTES, JANUARY 21st IS SURELY COMING, AND SO ARE THE DAYS THAT FOLLOW. HIS INVOCATION WILL BE DELIVERED, HE WILL BE GONE, AND OBAMA WILL BE RUNNING THE SHOW. THAT, MY PEOPLE, IS THE MAIN THING: NOT WHAT ONE MAN ON ONE PLATFORM FOR TWO MINUTES WILL SAY OR NOT SAY. THIS TOO SHALL PASS. AND RW WILL NOT EVEN BE REMEMBERED HAVING DELIVERED ANYTHING, MUCH LESS AN INVOCATION. WE KNOW THAT THIS INAUGURATION WILL BE A HISTORICAL MOMENT IN THE NATION'S HISTORY, BUT THE INAUGURATION IS LARGER ... I REPEAT, LARGER THAN ONE CONTROVERSIAL SPEAKER. LET'S GET OVER IT, ALREADY.
@ Prophetess Wallace:
God doesn't need me to defend Him.
Uplift Him and His son, sure...but defend Him, NO!
Lest you have missed something here, we're talking about a political event and a decision by a politician. Religion is tangential here. The invocation could have been provided by a Buddhist or Rabbi or whomever...this is not about Christianity per se but whether Rick Warren ws a wise choice and what it says, if anything, about Obama's stands on various issues.
This is a nation of many religions. The problem that many here have with folks like Warren is the incessant attempt by some to force Christian ethics on a nation that isn't simply Christian. I speak as a deacon and a follower of Christ when I say I don't want religion informing legislation. I would like to see it influencing the morals and consciences of politicians, but the anger is with people who use the church as a bully pulpit to FORCE folks to do things the Christian way.
God is great. All glory to Him. But that has squat to do with the discussion at hand IMHO.
Anonymous 7:08 PM:
You are on target when you said this, "it seem's as if at that name, their is a anti GOD MOVEMENT".
We're living in the last days but a lot of people don't believe that. Speaking for myself, I know without a doubt that God is not a man that he would lie and his word is true. Like the word says, in the last days people will call evil good and good evil. The word is fulfilling and coming to past right before the people's eyes, and yet, some are blind, held captive, and in chains because of their blindness.
Bush, the Christian right, and some hyprocritical Christians were vessels used to turn people from God. "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour." Bush claimed Christianity and born again status to win an election and turned around and did the exact opposite of what the word says do.
The Christian right played the part of the Pharisees and Sadducees living by the law instead of the Spirit, and some hyprocritical Christians fall in that category as well. Jesus said he didn't come to condemn the world, but he came to save it, yet so many of them played judge when the inside of their cup needed cleaning as well, and no man is judge but my Father in heaven. These folks gave Christianity a bad name.
In addition, "You can't serve God and Mammon. You will serve one or the other. "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him." Mammon = wealth. A lot of the churches turned the house of God into a den of thieves, and made Christianity out of a business venture. God is not pleased by that. Christianity is not about a business venture, which by the way led the weak straight to MAMMON. "My people perish for lack of knowledge."
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
"For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."
Think it not strange that the economy is going down the drain. People exchanged God for the material gods. Yes, it is true that people will not stand up for God, but will just about kill you if you disrespect the American flag, a piece of cloth that has no blood flowing through it, doesn't talk, walk, and is not made in God's image like man.
Nonetheless, the bible is Believer's Instructions Before Leaving Earth, it is a map, it is instructions, and directions on how to get to heaven. In the bible when the Lord says, TURN, he is trying to tell people that they are going in the wrong direction, the opposite way from the light. He is giving them a key to how to walk toward the light on their journey to their final destination, and Jesus is the light. Here on earth people are on a journey, they're walking to their final destination, and can't see it. That destination is judgment day and their last reward. Reward = Something given or received in recompense for worthy behavior or in retribution for evil acts.
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."
Prophetess Wallace, I am going to share a vision I had back in the year 1999, and those that have eyes to see, see, those that have ears to hear, hear.
In this vision I saw Judgement day. People, millions of people standing in line at a beautiful gate waiting to get in. There were people being turned away. What I noticed was most of the people that were being turned away were dressed in their Sunday's best, big pretty hats, beautiful suits, and dressed in their finest. Rich people were being turned away too. The second thing I noticed was that the people that were getting through those gates were the downtrodden, poor, and destitute. They were the people that folks looked down on and abused and mistreated like the homeless folks. People that our society considered undesirable and who had experienced misery and pain all their lives.
"First shall be last, and last shall be first."
Let me tell you what God means to me. He is my fountain of living waters, bread of life, God Almighty, my Creator, he is my Strength, Healer, Provider, and My Rock, the author of my faith, but most of all He is who he said he is--I AM that I AM, and much more. Blessings to you!
Please FN, disable the capital letter rights of Anonymous posters....
Deacon Blue:
"I would like to see it influencing the morals and consciences of politicians"
Amen, me too Deacon, but that more than likely won't happen. I didn't like Rick Warren as his choice myself, but then, it was a few of them I didn't like as his choice. Nonetheless, I feel that it is a reason behind him doing that. I can't say why, however, I'm not taking what I said back either.
GrannyStandingforTruth
Preach it!
@ Rate Your Job
You said:
"Accusing Obama of hueism is a bit overboard. The man didn't play racial politics during the campaign. Why should he play racial politics now?
If there are a tiny number of black women in his cabinet, did you ever consider that that might be the case because there are a small number of black women power players in Washington who have the insight and expertise to function in his cabinet?"
My reply:
It never ceases to amaze me how many white people love to embrace the notion that there are SOOOOO FEW blacks who are qualified to serve at this level! whenever there are high-level appointments! It happens in every sphere of society. It is such a bogus argument.
For the past fifty years, there have ALWAYS been a long list of cabinet-level black women who were never given any recognition by former presidents for being experts in their fields because when these presidents pull in "advisors" who give them a list of names, few blacks are EVERon the list. It is not because SO FEW have become masters within their own fields of expertise.
It's interesting that I never hear whites say "gee, there are so few cabinet-level white men who are qualified" because mediocre, unintelligent, uninspiring white men have been getting cabinet seats for my entire lifetime - and probably yours.
It's so naive for anyone to think that Obama makes these decisions on his own. He has a team of advisors who are making these decisions right along with him. Hueism is alive and well in Washington and anyone who pretends that no one notices anyone's looks in assessing their "professional persona" or their ability to receive broad-base appeal with the white electorate that Obama is so committed to appeasing is a full-time resident on Fantasy Island.
Allow me to let the alarm clock start blaring and wake these folks up. Classism, lookism, racism and sexism has ALWAYS had a role in the team decisions in identifying presidential appointments.
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Rick Warren? Something about the guy creeps me out.
I've tried to come up with something more intelligent to say about the man myself, but you nailed it with this one line.
We wanted a deft politician and that is what we got. If you are disillusioned than sorry, but that's a consequence of projecting your political outlooks onto the PE Obama in the first place.
All this hand wringing about Obama's cabinet selections, his lack of blacks in his cabinet and the choice of Rick Warren giving the invocation at his inauguration is not policy.
Policy is what I care about and quite frankly Obama is going to have to make more than a few deals with the devil to push through some of his more radical (their words not mine) policies.
It is not all about having a majority in the Congress and Senate, you have many moderate and conservative Democrats in both branches. To quote the New York Times: "The president who commands the allegiance of the majority of Americans finds a way to reach 60 votes in the Senate and breaking filibusters runs through the court of public opinion more than it does the Senate chamber."
After eight years of a right-wing ideologue whose policies have crippled our economy, all but destroyed the middle class, ruined diplomatic relationships with numerous FORMER allies, wiped his ass with the Constitution while pissing on our collective heads...well I'll be keeping my eyes on the prize and the prize is instituted policies.
Policies that will give more regulatory oversight to industry, banks and securities companies; get us out of this deep recession; give us national healthcare, get FISA right; fucking repeal the Patriot Act; and get approved nominations to more liberal (screw progressive) justices on the Supreme Court.
PE Obama is going to be the President of the United States of America and for better or worse, whether you like it or not that includes Rick Warren.
Dialogues are going to have to be opened between the Rick Warrens and Dan Savages of the world or they will be forever standing on the opposite sides of the religious abyss shouting that the other is the devil.
lookism?
HERE we are complaining about a PASTOR, and what he said or did month's ago, regardless of what RICK WARREN tried to do, to keep BARACK from winning the election, it did not work, if we were told that RICK WARREN had been chosen to read a SCRIPTURE, and then said no to it, people would be complaining about that! as well.
I am not taking up for RICK WARREN, but, I do know, that he is not an EXTREMIST, he live's in CALIFORNIA, I have heard him speak, and he speak's about what is right before GOD and what is not, and he speak's against GAY MARRIAGE, so in other word's he was called, by GOD, to speak, in his behalf, and beside's, the uproar is basically comming from the GAY and LESBIAN COMMUNITY.
He could have found some preacher who has never tried to demonize nonstraight people and no one could have cared but he decided to pick a prominent bigot who hates the folks who want Obama to succeed, I see the Warren invitation as another movement by a mainstream leader in the democratic party to marginalize his supporters who helped elect him and embrace the reactionaries who would prefer to destroy any movement to make our society more equal & inclusive
joel olsteen would have been a wise choice
warren is nothing but a rabid dog
and a deliberate wound to gay voters who obama no longer needs!
nothing will ever excuse this
shame!!!
alicia banks
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