This weekend I was kicking it with my little niece at what is supposed to be the happiest place in A-merry-ca, and bits and pieces of things went down to inspire my next rant.
The first thing that moved me was kind of obvious: I saw all those happy families in Disney with even happier children. Sadly, (and most of you who have been to Disney World will vouch for this) there were not a whole lot of families of color there. Well, not my color. There were, relatively speaking, quite a few Asian families; and Indian families; and yes, even quite a few Latino families. But not a lot of us. Why is that? Field, Disney is expensive, our people can't afford that kind of disposable income. But why? Why can families from other races---even those who traditionally have less disposable income than we do--- afford to go and take their children, yet we can't? I know the shit is expensive, I just blogged about it. But even if it was half the money pit that it is, would you see us there?
The next thing that inspired this post was an article I was reading from the Orlando Sentinel while flying home this morning. It was, in essence, a book review of William Julius Wilson's new book, "More Than Just Race" which dealt primarily with urban poverty in A-merry-ca and its root causes. The premise of the book is that poverty is caused primarily by "structural" and not "cultural" factors. Wilson writes in his book that it's institutions that are most responsible for poverty, and not the culture of poor people. Although, he argues, that "persistent" poverty does have many causes, he ultimately concludes that structural causes are "far more important" than cultural ones. (I will get back to that in a minute.)
And the final thing that moved me to do this post was watching Boondocks late one night from my hotel room long after the little one was fast asleep. The brilliant episode called "The Itis" was in full effect. You remember that one don't you? Where Huey's Grandpa opens a restaurant called "The Itis" and soon everyone is hooked on the soul food and invariably the "Itis" sets in. (Every one of you Negroes reading this know exactly what the "itis" is, so don't front. )
So let me connect all these dots by first commenting on the lack of us at places like Disney World. Here it is in a nutshell: Black men still do not understand the negative financial impact of fathering multiple children with different women. I see it every day here in Philly. Brothers with very good paying jobs, making good money, but getting little of it because of their child support obligations to different families. We don't build. We don't understand that marriage is good not only for our emotional and physical well being, but it can be good for our financial well being as well.
It's not rocket science; marry one woman, have children with her and concentrate all of your wealth into one household. Mommy works, daddy works, and the children are all better off in the long run. Why? Because all of daddy's pay check is coming into one home. Daddy can focus all of his attention---not to mention his financial resources---on those children. Little Jamal will be off to college, and hopefull he will be able to repeat the cycle one day.
And this is where I take some exception with Julius Wilson's book. Yes, poverty is caused partly by both the structures in place and our culture. But I don't think that the structural reasons are "far more" as he would suggest. For whatever reason, as I mentioned above, too many of our men have fallen into this mind set that it's cool to walk away from our baby mamas. Hey, we all enjoyed being single and living the single life, and for those of you who still want to go that route by all means go at it. But live the single life without fathering children you won't be there for. That shit is not cool and it contributes to poverty.
Just like certain habits [plural] that we have. (This is where Boondocks come in.) I know the "Itis" episode took it to the extreme, but are there any among us who do not believe that our dietary habits are seriously messed up and that it causes us all kinds of problems? All the civil rights in the world won't stop us from killing ourselves with the shit that we eat. We fought to sit at the lunch counters and when we ordered our meal it was shit that could kill us faster than anything the white man did to us ever could. We can't build wealth when we are spending half of our time and all of our money in the hospital fighting shit like diabetes, high blood pressure and all kinds of heart deceases . That shit is cultural, and it's just one of the things in our culture that we might want to consider rethinking.
So yes, institutions, for the most part, are not blameless for our condition, but we have to take responsibility as well. I won't be as hard on us like my man AI has been in the past, because I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. But far too many of us have lost sight of what is really important in life: building wealth for our future generations and putting something away for them when we are no longer here. And, in the end, taking care of our bodies so that we can be around long enough to see them enjoy some of the fruits of our labor. (But field, if the institutions and the structures in place are working against us, how are we going to have wealth to build with in the first place?) They might be working against us, but they haven't stopped us from building something. Let's start with what little we have and then we can start bitching a little more about the institutions and the "structures" that are in place, if they happen to prevent us from building our wealth.
What's the title of that old Billy Preston song?
151 comments:
Ah, Field,
Do you ever feel like the pendulum of personal responsibility, personal pride and collective pride have swung so far in one direction that the only hope is for us to literally force it back in opposite direction?
Cause let's be real, it is a cultural and socioeconomic phenomenon that dictates that Black people have some incredibly ill placed priorities.
What is there to do?
You should read Wilson's book--the exact sentence in the book doesn't use the adjective "far more" in relation to structure trumping culture. He actually takes the cultural factors you mention very seriously. Each chapter outlines structural forces contributing to poverty/low marriage rates/fragmented families of color/etc, then outlines the cultural forces, and concludes with an analysis that blends them together. Most reviews I've read (including the NYTimes review) don't fully articulate this.
Speaking of Philly, he cites a book about the culture of marriage among poor women in Philly in Camden - Promises I can Keep. you might want to check it out.
Maybe Black people just don't find Disney that interesting!! But I would agree that we do have some cultural reasons for not accumulating wealth. Renting and not owning (although owning a home can be a big money drain these days), not participating in retirement plans, buying Chryslers (no resale value, always in repair shop), buying Audis and BMW's (overpriced pieces of crap with astonomical repair bills), keeping up with the Jones', developing a poor credit rating, not buying life insurance (that's how White widows get rich!)---I could go on. Fathering kids all over the place hurts too, but that's not going to stop anytime soon.
Unlike the Latinos, Asians, Whites etc. the black family is broken. Families BUILD wealth... Two thirds of black children are born out of wedlock. A whole generation, no, generations! When 70% of black children have no father in the house, then you know why you won't see them at Disney. Black women are raising children and leading the community by themselves. Single mothers cannot build wealth like stable, two parent families can.
Anon.9:15PM.I hope I didn't give the impression in my post that I actually read the book. I read the review, and that's it. I am glad you checked me and I will stand checked for now until I read the entire book myself; which I do plan to do shortly.
I am also familiar with the project you spoke of. If I recall Wilson was here at Penn before he went to Harvard.
"Maybe Black people just don't find Disney that interesting!! "
"Black people" might not, but I gurantee you that their kids do. But I agree with yourother points. Time just didn't permit me to get into some of the other stuff.
"Do you ever feel like the pendulum of personal responsibility, personal pride and collective pride have swung so far in one direction that the only hope is for us to literally force it back in opposite direction?"
Yes!
World Series winning "grand slam" in the bottom of the ninth inning...
Enough said...yet another classic coming from the Field :0)
Hi Field,
As a single parent, I will be enjoying the likes of Disneyworld, Sea World, and Universal Studio in a couple of weeks.
I earn this vacation also my daughter, I remember 3 years Seaworld was oftening a free day for active, reserve or retired military and I swear, I was the only one black in that line taken advantage of it.
This year, Univeral Studio, Disney and Seaworld are given away 2-5 days passes..I always got my free passes..As a single mother, with a half way good job, I will be taken advantage of these moments of attending these parks.
I dont care if I am the only black around..You are right the kids care, my daughter can spot that Disney castle everywhere, on tv even on the Rice crispie morning cereal boxes.
The cost is not as much as people think..Average breakfast per day $5, lunch is $8 and dinner is $15...$150 per week just to eat out..over $8000 for one person to eat out or take out per year. TAX FREE..............
Take that money. save 3/4 for life insurance, saving, vacation fund and blow 1/4 on that fast food that is not good for u.
We have money for vacation, but SOME people tend to throw our money away on unnessary junk.
Valid point, FN! I think its due to the PTB's (powers that be) quest to keep most folks on an (un)even playing field while the select few can make policies that mostly benefit them and their comrades while at the same time trickle it down to the rest of us for "fairness".
This keeps them in power at the same time they toss a few scraps to keep the general public in check. Its the same strategy as you stated in the personal responsibility slant, but on a much larger scale. Of course, there are other factors such as greed, ignorance, and outdated beliefs that cause problems for the rest of us.
field
this shows the double standard regarding your people. if a white person gave your analysis they would be called a racist. obama himself was criticized when he told black fathers to take care of thier children.
Having never watched a single episode of Boondocks and having never heard of "itis" could someone please explain exactly what it is?
I notice that phenomenon even now on South Jersey boardwalks, not at all in the local carnivals sponsored by churches & civic groups. I don't know about Six Flags Great Adventure.
Newark NJ just opened a one-stop service & support center for grandparents & other older people raising children. An absurdly obvious idea, yet it had never been done in Newark. I suppose it is both a structural & cultural repair, as it finally acknowledges & tries to deal with a reality.
Field, what kind of "Indian" are you talking about here, guy? Because if you're talking about people from the subcontinent of India, then they are ASIAN. You can distinguish between Indians from India and, say, Chinese, Koreans, or Japanese by the preferred terms "South Asian" vs. "East Asian." To call them "Indians" and refer to them as other than Asians -- you need an atlas.
Not to be short with you here or anything, but this happens to be one of my hot button issues. Feel free to blow me off, I'll just sit in my corner and think vile thoughts.
Field--everyone writing a book like Wilson's got to have some POV in order to get it by an agent, get it published. On the wingnut side I'm sure there are dozens (maybe written by Alan Keyes) saying it's culture on steroids.
Any intelligent person knows that once you wipe away the bullshit, the answer is that it's both, and one feeds off the other. But here's the trick. We have the power, as individuals, as a people, to influence both. Personally I think culture's a bit easier, but hitting the structure will cleanse the culture, so no matter the angle, we can win this. My problem is with these pseudo Panthers, bammaphiles and Dyson types who think the culture's just hunky dory.
I was reading the comments in the linked post on mirroronamerica when I stumbled upon this little gem (from a female commenter):
"Can I also add a newsflash to a brother who thinks that just because he's earned a MERE Bachelor's degree that ALL black women should be outrageously impressed...some of us have parents whose chauffeurs have a Bachelor's degree...therefore you'll need to step up with something a BIT MORE substantial than a MERE Bachelor's degree if you want to bring up your academic achievements as a conversation piece."
So does this mean that someone working a trade (carpenter, mason, etc) who happens to be intelligent, erudite and well-spoken is out of the running as far as this woman is concerned? Or should we just give this woman a few kitty cats to keep her company for the next few years?
Your points are excellent as usual.
However, a very large sub culture of black folks just don't get it and never will. Bobby Brown just had his 5th one by 5 different mommas. While other cutltures keep moving forward, we keep moving backward. Black boys have no real men as role models. Their own fathers are unemployed, rappers, gang members, and drug dealers. So that is what they aspire to be. There mothers are ignorant and learned their ignorant ways from their own mothers. They grow up learning that it's alright to never marry anyone, and to have a baby by everyone that comes into your life. They also learned from their mothers that it's okay to "share a man" with many other women. We are headed for "self destruction."
I think too much emphasis is placed on the nuclear family. The society doesn't need more than intact families, it needs functioning families. One of the main problems is that everyone seeks to remain a perpetual adolescent. Responsibility should be the buzz word.
During the 19th and early 20th century immigrants children managed to be educated, when the father worked 70 hr weeks and the mother had too many children to do the quality time we think of. The father may or may not have brought home all his pay check and he certainly wasn't present as the 50's TV version. He may have had an early death, leaving many widows and children. So many families were headed by older siblings, because both parents were gone. The end of white folks civilization did not happen.
We have two faults to overcome. One is addiction and the other is asceticism. Alcoholism even more so than drugs has debilitated too many black men. Addiction doesn't make functional families.
Food and sex have succumbed to ascetic requirements. We get so many messages of perfection that we are bound to fail. So much of the time we follow a healthy diet base on a rigid philosophy rather than medicine. We will give up the pig and substitute turkey fat which clogs up our arteries as well. We love our pseudo science when it comes to dieting and are always on diet, which continue to make us fatter.
The messages in the community about sex, is that its wrong and dirty. If you engage in sex, you are a bad person. So those that have information feel that giving it to young people will make them have more sex. So very few talk about the responsibility, STD's birth control or the advantages of waiting to when one can become responsible. Are we even trying to develop self esteem among young minds. We don't even think that if they could actually have reachable goals, that it might reduce the number of pregnancies. What we do now, is expect women to bite their tongues and cross their legs, be pure, not pragmatic.
Marriage is not a source of building wealth if there are too many children, too close together. When the resources are stretched to thin, marriage becomes debt creation.
Marriage is not a source of building wealth if there are too many children, too close together. When the resources are stretched to thin, marriage becomes debt creation.
Studies have show time and again that single mother's are far more likely to live in poverty than two parent households. When the vast majority of children in a community are being raised by one parent it's a huge contributing factor to poverty.
Hey Anonymous ,
Cut the bull and just say that they are savage niggers. That's what you want to say isn't it.
Whites have messed up minorities so much that we are messing ourselves up.We only got the damn right to vote in '65. In '64 we got our Civil Rights.Iran/Contra, COINTELPRO, Tuskeegee. We had all that happen , and WE'RE STILL HERE!
Dinesh D'Sousa said that the problem with black Americans is that we haven't had a successful slave revolt.So is Dinesh saying that he wants us to have a successful revolt?
You had legal and illegal entities going after minorities.Organized crime has said to keep the drugs in minority community. Other than that happening in The Godfather, it was actually said at the La Cosa Nostra confrence in Appalachin.Some minorities that were involved in "illegal" numbers were thrown out of business by the state sponsored lottery.
Neil Caputo on one show said the problem is "we need more white people."Anonymous if you want to stop the darker people from having so many children,SEND THEM TO COLLEGE ! It's a scientifically proven fact that the more educated a person is, the fewer children they have.Most of the abortions taking place are educated white women,not inner-city women.Do you see Ann Coulter and Laura Ingramham having kids ?
Now instead of sending minorities to college,we can send them to prison to be a tougher, stronger, meaner, thug.Sooner or later thugs will stop robbing poor black people and only rob rich ,white people.So governments could make more laws to screw minorities and women , or they can help.The easy way , or the hard way, it's your choice Anonymous.
It's easy to criticize our people when some of us are well off, some of you people sound like the FOX NEW'S anchor's! but, you are quoting so called statistic's that are aimed at making our people look like a bunch of LAZY BUM'S, and field did you offer to take a FATHERLESS black boy or girl to DISNEYLAND? or shall I say one of your cousin's in PHILLY!! and so what if some BLACK FOLK'S choose not to give their money to DISNEYLAND, maybe they are smart enough to put their money away and save it, maybe just maybe their are some smart BLACK FOLK'S out their that are smarter than some of you think.
Their are free park's, beach's with board walk's and they have clown's to entertain the children, MAGIC JOHNSON has a PARK in my state that has fishing pond's and and so much more, and to be honest when our people become MILLIONAIRE'S they buy HOME'S, CAR'S, and DIAMOND'S GALORE, we never criticize that, but we are fast to criticize a POOR BLACK PERSON, now I don't know who some of you people are but, it's easy to look down on people when you think you are on solid ground, but, make sure that ground will never crumble, for GOD forbid if it doe's, you better make sure you can pull yourself up by your BOOTSTRAP'S, and by the way, WHITE FOLK'S have just as many illegitimate children as BLACK FOLK'S, but, white folk's choose to put their children up for ADOPTION, where as a SINGLE BLACK MOTHER will choose to struggle and raise her children alone no matter what the COST!!!
HI GRANNY **** I received your message, and I couldn't post, my audio is not working on my computer,
PROPHETESS WALLACE
anon 12:31,
Many of those single mothers are white divorced women who husbands who may have left them the house but no child support. Some of these women were married to doctors and other professionals. It is common enough, that three of the six women I worked with were in this position.
I think you would have been very uncomfortable, because there was an awful lot of white male bashing.
Hmmmm... I know without a doubt that Jesse Lee Peterson, Ron Christie, and a few others are self-hating negroes. But you know, I'm really beginning to wonder if all negroes suffer from that same self-hating disease. The reason this thought crossed my mind is because I never hear anything positive being said about black people by their own black people. It's all negative and depressing.
In fact, when is the last time I ever heard a black person speak something positive or good about their own race. Truthfully speaking, I haven't. Everything said about blacks by their own people is depressing, negative, and discouraging. I don't know whether to label it indirectly or directly but all blacks contribute in keeping their own people down. Every other race encourages their own, but not black folks. Blacks are fed negativity and discouraging seeds on a daily basis, nonstop. They are immersed in negativity and discouragement.
In order for a child to succeed and be responsible a parent has to encourage them and plant good seeds in their mind. Not only that, they have to lead by example. If parents tell a child over and over they won't amount to anything or that they are worthless, they set that child up to fail. A child is what he hears, sees, and is taught.
Therefore, I can't help but come to a conclusion that all black people are self-hating negroes and not aware of it. It is embedded deep down in their subconscience mind and buried in their hearts. For over four hundred years, blacks have been told they were subhuman and now those seeds have grown full bloom into a garden of self-hating negroes.
I think part of the problem is how we define wealth. We define wealth as being able to collect stuff, like big houses, cars, jewelry, etc. In other words, we want to live like we see others doing on TV. But in amassing this stuff, we fail to put back for a rainy day. We fail to building a legacy we might leave to our children. Too often we spend every dime we bring in so that we might create this aura of wealth, but in the long run, we have very little actual wealth to show for it.
Hey Prophetess Wallace:
No problem, I signed off after I posted that message to you. I had two of my granddaughters over and we watched some movies together.
And Amen to what you posted at 12:49 a.m. That's the truth there.
Field, I love your ideas except they really don't work here in Cali. Marriage works about as often as putting all of your money on either the red or black spots on a roulette table. There's a 50% chance you'll succeed and a 50% you're going to give away half your stuff after five years, pay child support and alimony for another ten after that, and if you're lucky you'll get to see your kids one day a week.
ANON 11:41 can you please stop hating your own people, and you do not speak for the AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE, and thank GOD for that! and who are you to say our people are headed for self destruction!!! we may not be where we should be as a people, but, we are not where we were, our people have been through HELL and BACK!! and by the WHITE MAN plan's we as a people should not even exist! we were labeled as SUB HUMAN, LESSER THAN, NOT EQUAL, now tell me what race of people can raise above that? the BLACK RACE!!! you need to stop listening to word's of deception, these are all tactic's of the WHITE MAN, this has been going on since they brought us from AFRICA, the BLACK MAN may do their mess, but, trust me, it will never equal what the WHITE MAN doe's!
Anonymous 1:19:
Amen, amen, and amen again! And might I add hell and high water and back.
We need more "role models." They don't have to be perfect, just excel in some particular aspect of their lives.
I know. I know. Charles Barkley insists that parents are, or should be, a child's only role models.
Yet, I owe whatever success I've achieved in life to many a role model.
My Sunday School teacher, although just a mechanic by trade, possessed an impressive vocabulary, and spoke with a quiet, confident eloquence.
He was a role model.
He didn't inspire me to be a mechanic, but to have a vocabulary that equaled his, and to develop a quiet, confident demeanor.
My art teacher--a dedicated soul who took interest in each of his student's development--taught us about many of life's lessons as he taught us how to use a lapidary set, and to shape silver into rings, and other jewelry.
He was a role model.
I didn't become an artist, or an artisan, but "shaped" my life around his oft-repeated work instruction: "Whatever you do, do it with a purpose."
My elementary school teacher, a hard woman, who had succeeded despite amazing odds, and taught grades first through fifth in a one-room school--who didn't' accept poverty as an excuse for not excelling, and who had in her possession only two dresses during her college years, but washed them nightly so that they would be fresh the next day, was a role model.
She didn't inspire me to become a teacher, but to fight against overwhelming odds and not to use poverty as an excuse not to excel.
My Little League baseball coach, who gave unselfishly of his time to train and coach us to become winners, and to achieve at a high level, was another role model.
He didn't inspire me to become a coach of any sport, but to believe in myself, and my abilities, although I wasn't a baseball natural.
I had many role models. They weren't perfect in every aspect of their lives, but they were so damn perfect in one or two aspects, that I aspired to emulate those aspects that I did admire.
Kids need challenges. They need, too, to see excellence in others. Not "negative excellence" (how to amass wealth, success, and popularity selling dope, pimping women's bodies, and being parasites upon the land), but "positive excellence" (how to amass wealth, success, and popularity as businessmen, professionals (lawyers, doctors, dentists, etc.), family men, community activists, and devoted husbands).
"I think part of the problem is how we define wealth. We define wealth as being able to collect stuff, like big houses, cars, jewelry, etc. In other words, we want to live like we see others doing on TV."
Yes, and our (blacks') definitions are often formed in relation and in contrast to how we perceive the definitions of whites.
Sustainable wealth, for example, is perhaps less desirable than blinging because the former is associated with a white middle-class lifestyle.
Likewise, I read an article in Ebony a couple years ago lamenting the relative absence of black male youths in college. Their proposed solution was to make the link between college attendance and acquired wealth more apparent to black male youth.
I just laughed ... Both college education and sustainable wealth are perceived by many black males as residing within realm of whiteness and, hence, are deemed undesirable.
I, myself, have advanced degrees and a stable job, and still I harbor a bit of distaste for a lifestyle of relative financial comfort in which I don't see many other people like me.
It’s this definitional dialectic that’s at the root of the problem. You can change structural issues all you want, but as long as the structure, itself, is perceived as residing within the realm of whiteness, it and the cultural production issued from it will be met with skepticism and rejection by black male youths.
Bob:
"support center for grandparents & other older people raising children."
We have one of those out this way and a friend of mine attends one. She loves it and said she would recommend it to any grandparent.
"I think part of the problem is how we define wealth. We define wealth as being able to collect stuff, like big houses, cars, jewelry, etc."
That is so true. Wealth is not always materials things. For instance, love, wisdom, knowledge, and relationships. I would choose those anyday over material things. Meterials things are here today and gone tomorrow. They wear out and get old, sometimes are stolen, or broken and you have to replace them eventually. However, those four things I name last for a lifetime.
Anon 10:12p...this shows the double standard regarding your people. if a white person gave your analysis they would be called a racist."
You know, you keep coming on this blog talking about racism, as if you have been called a racist all of your lilly White life. Do you have anything else to offer except a Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity/David Duke critique? One of your past comments had to do with FN's post about Black children committing suicide. Your comment then had no empathy for the child or mother... just, 'WHERE IS THE FATHER?'-in big caps.
You've had nothing constructive to offer since you've been coming on FN's blog.
If that's all you have to say, then maybe you are a racist. Most people who are NOT racists don't spend their time thinking like you do.
This is one of the best blogs not just for FN's but for all people. We are people first that are black with a history to tell and why we have a struggle to continue.
I'm married 35 yrs to the same woman we have two daughters, there has been some hell and happiness. Most black children can't communicate with others because they haven't been exposed to places like Disneyland, national parks, the beaches or see the stars shine in a black midnight sky..
I remember taking my daughters to Mount St Helens with a telescope to look into the valcano dome and to exchange foreign currency in 1980. Going places and doing things will help them love, share and care
Stop the slave mentalty of beating your children or telling jamal you will knock his brains if he does something wrong. You have to see a father to be a father.
The best post I've read on this blog. Children have to understand they are children that are black vs black children.
Get a life partner, enjoy looking at the women, go home and talk to your children. Let your children know they have your ear and love all the time no matter what life brings.
Interesting post, and Field I congratulate you for your willingness to confront a sensitive issue.
I don't think you can boil it down to a single cause. I think it's the interplay of a bunch of factors. To me, one biggie is the relative lack of risk-taking behavior by black people. By risk-taking, I mean entrepreneurial risk taking, and career risk taking.
When I was in business school, the few blacks in my class were in staff jobs at major corporations, and they were going to stay there. I didn't get any sense of dynamism among them. They were making good, solid, upper-middle-class money, and that was a damn sight better than what their parents had made so that was good enough.
It was very understandable to me. Unlike other ethnic groups, there isn't the entrepreneurial network among blacks to cushion the fall for those who strike out on their own and fail. Nor is there the financial network to fund "crazy" new ideas.
As a result, talented black people tend to do the safe thing, which can be very comfortable indeed. Meantime, the superstar earners, i.e., celebrities and professional athletes, tend to blow it on bling or (occasionally, Cosby-like) give to recognized brand-name institutions. When was the last time you heard of a black-run, black-financed venture capital outfit? Where are the informal networks of "angel" financiers?
Field this post really hit home for me.
It could be because I just finished watching all the seasons of THE WIRE.
The fourth season (which focused on education and four middle school aged black boys) gutted me. I was so upset. I've met kids like Michael, Randy, Dukie and Namond.
I cannot wrap my head around men who father children and yet do not parent.
It's not rocket science. If you have a limited income or no income, having a slew of kids with a bunch of different women is not helping the next generation.
I get it. Some folks are not into monogamy. That's cool, wear a condom or get a vasectomy.
I wonder about the moms. Why have a child with a man who has several children he cannot take care of?
I agree we have redefine what having "wealth" means. Since moving abroad I've met people who may not seem to have a lot of "things" but the few things they have are well made. They go on vacation. They spend time with their families.
It's less of a disposable culture. Of course with globalization everything is changing but it's nice to be in place where you are not define by your job or how much money you have.
Granny- "But you know, I'm really beginning to wonder if all negroes suffer from that same self-hating disease. The reason this thought crossed my mind is because I never hear anything positive being said about black people by their own black people. It's all negative and depressing."
The biggest 'positive' advocates for African Americans were MLK and Malcolm X. They pointed us in the right direction. After their deaths, we've been on an downward slope that seems to be headed toward an undesirable place.
I agree that there is a lot of negativity in the Black race. From my own experience and observation, 'most' Blacks have some House Negro in them (unconsciously or consciously). It cannot be otherwise, especially if you think about the history of our race. It's just a matter of degree. Some have it subtly, while others reek with it.
IMO it is impossible to be descendents of slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, discrimination, institutionalized racism, and experience hostile White supremacy without feeling 'some' degree of shame, self-hatred or low self-worth about being Black, either consciously or unconsciously. And this is the area where many Blacks need to work on. Blacks need to work on Self-love and Self-worth as a worthwhile human being, whether they are rich or poor.
Please note: 'Self-worth and net-worth are not the same'. Having self-esteem and self-worth is far greater, more powerful and satisfying than having a lot of materialistic stuff as a substitute. Look at some of the rich and famous. They have plenty of money and expensive goods but still remain egomaniacs with inferiority complexes. There are many I am sure you can think of.
So I am not just talking about 'poor' Blacks, I am talking about 'most' Blacks-rich or poor- who are living in a white dominated society, where discrimination and injustices happen to Blacks everyday. That impacts how a person feels about his/herself as a POC.
I also think Field has a very good point about some of our Black men. As he has said, 'the answer probably lies somewhere in between.'
Still, there is the bothersome problem of being disconnected from knowing right from wrong-or worse getting them reversed. That is, thinking right is wrong, and wrong is right.
A+
The Itis is more about the introduction of crack to neighborhoods and gentrification than it is about food, though.
We can't build wealth when we are spending half of our time and all of our money in the hospital fighting shit like diabetes, high blood pressure and all kinds of heart deceases . That shit is cultural, and it's just one of the things in our culture that we might want to consider rethinking.<>
The Obamas are setting a great example on this stuff, and it's not getting enough attention.
@Granny: "In fact, when is the last time I ever heard a black person speak something positive or good about their own race. Truthfully speaking, I haven't."
Granny, you were posting while I was writing, so I didn't read your post until after I had posted mine upthread.
All the "role models," that I cited, with the exception of one, were all blacks, and they had an immense impact on my life.
I'm acquainted with much of our history, and have lived a large part of it, so I cut blacks a lot of slack when it comes to adapting to a society that has for too many years wanted us for our labor, our women, and little else.
To illustrate, consider the movie, Pearl Harbor.
Over the weekend, I watched it again. Cuba Gooding, Jr. plays a ship's cook who's not allowed to shoot the ship's guns with the other sailors, but was relegated to the galley.
When the Japanese attacked, he promoted himself and fought along side his fellow sailors.
His courage under fire won him a Navy Cross. [A true story!]
The movie is tedious in places, but the special effects during the battle scenes make up for that deficiency.
I have also seen the scars that "self hatred," the result of racist practices, and harsh segregation, have left upon the psyche of our people.
I know the struggle that comes with throwing off the yoke of oppression, and the shackles of inferiority that manacles the soul and spirit.
I have always been slow to criticize blacks in general, and have been persistent in offering points of view to put our shortcomings in perspective.
What I have learned over the years is what you have learned: whites are no better than we are, and, in some ways, worse.
It was not what blacks did that have the world teetering on the verge of a depression, but whites, despite the attempts of some to blame the whole thing on minorities, with FoxNews leading the charge.
It was not a black that bilked investors of billions of dollars pushing a ponzi scheme--money that supported charities, retirements, and so forth.
See a partial list here.
Of course, anyone with time to research it could come up with an equally impressive list of blacks who have done their share of bilking.
My point:
Whites are not smarter, cleaner, kinder, nor better looking than blacks.
But many have wanted us to believe that that was so.
There's good in both races, and there's bad in both races.
I'm not going to attempt a comparison thing, lining up our virtues next to theirs, and other races.
It's a stupid exercise (many have indulged it, with IQ tests, for example) but this merely divides us further, rather than unite us.
For better or worse, we're all humans. We're all a part of the human condition.
So regardless of what we may see as failings among the races, they're still human failings, because we're all members of the same human family.
However, there are forces still prevalent within our society that seek to exploit what they perceive as racial human failings for their own nefarious purposes.
Mesha, you are my hero.
PoliticalCat, you got me, but I was generalizing. I know I shouldn't do it, but I didn't feel like breaking it all down for the post. I know better, I stand corrected. And you forgot West Indians. Quite a few "Indians" in the isles as well.
Jackson Brown, that's a great point.@Max Reddick, you nailed it as well.
Anon 10:17PM. The "Itis" is a certain condition that a.....certain group of people get after eating. It's the short version of the name. These Negroes know it but for some reason they don't want to let you in on it. I won't spoil it for them. :)
"and field did you offer to take a FATHERLESS black boy or girl to DISNEYLAND? or shall I say one of your cousin's in PHILLY!! and so what if some BLACK FOLK'S choose not to give their money to DISNEYLAND, maybe they are smart enough to put their money away and save it.."
Not Disney, but Hershey Park, as well as other Amusement Parks in the area.I don't like being a father to other Negroes kids, but we do what we have to do.
BTW, I will be at the Zoo with the little one this weekend. (Yes, it's a whole summer of this for uncle Field) I will tell you how many of "our" families I see. ;)
It was asked earlier but I don't think i saw and answer, but what is the "itis?? I seriously want to know!!
I just finished reading No Disrespect by Sister Souljah, which discusses in graphic and sometimes discouraging terms the interaction between the cultural breakdown in the Black community (especially as concerns the paucity of Black men committed to their children) and the institutional social structures that guarantee that the breakdown will continue. It's worth looking at.
As for the diet situation, I honestly believe that this is a United Statian problem in general (I live in Louisiana where they fry everything), but that the additional constant stressor of institutionalized racism is what makes the effects even more debilitating for Black folks.
Knowledge is power. Keep it coming, Field.
"You can change structural issues all you want, but as long as the structure, itself, is perceived as residing within the realm of whiteness, it and the cultural production issued from it will be met with skepticism and rejection by black male youths"
Did anyone hear/read the article in the Washington Post (I think) a few years ago which relayed the fact that most young Black kids believe that marriage is for white people? Absolutely unbelieveable!
FYI, my daughter has never been to Disney and I have very strong roots in both Cali and Florida. No particluar reason, we just never thought it was important enough to go. We've visited many other amusement parks but never Disney, even thought I love it myself!
Part of what disturbs me about this whole post is that we are comparing ourselves to white people. As if they are aspirational for us. To be like a white man is not one of my goals. I don't hate them but I've worked with them and know them and was raised among them and I'm sorry, but I don't see them as being anything that I want to be.
If black people aren't going to DisneyLand then the question is "Where are they going?" and not assuming that they are keeping their lazy asses at home smoking crack and making babies.
And I always think that in these discussions you have to look at class. It's important. Class has always been a huge component of how we have defined ourselves and it's more complex than the house negro or field negro dynamic.
I'm a middle class guy and I have three children and have been married to the same woman for twenty four years. Can I afford to take them to Disneyland? Hell no. It's too expensive for the both of us. Do we have holidays? Sure but not the kind you are talking about. Does that make me a loser? No. Who can afford to take five people on a plane and stay at a hotel and then feed them for a whole week? I simply can't do it. We have to do something like this a little closer to home.
And we need to really talk out loud about all the good things that we as black have brought into this world. The culture, the history, the fight for civil rights that has has a profound effect on the spirit of this great nation. There is so much good about us and we have emphasize this 24/7 instead of pointing out the worst among us as an example of all of us. That would be a great starting place for a discussion such as this. What's a problem in our homes is not peculiar to us it's actually a problem that affects the rest of the Americans too.
Oh my,
Another "what's wrong with negroes" discussion..
Black people, when are we going to start discussing our tremendous success and resilience in a nation that has never had our interests at heart?
I don't know what kind of existence some of you have, but I see black affluence, excellence and success every day.
And I will never accept that dysfunction and pathology defines the black community.
michaelTO,
EXACTLY.
I actually see black women with their children at NBA games I go to, first you think its cool then you think are they taking their kids b/c dad is not around. I don't see many other race moms taking their kids to games alone.
BD,on point as usual.
Michael TO this post w asn't. about you.Obviousley you represent everything that's good with the black family.Let's not get caught up on the Disney reference,I simply used it to make a point.I could have been talking about the park,Chuck E. Cheese,a youth baseball game or whatever. The point is we should spend time with our chidlren and make whatever sarifices is needed to help them to succeed.
Uptownsteve,you are right,there is a lot of good with our peeps and so much to be proud of.But I think it could be so much better.
We didn't get this far by sitting on our laurels and being afraid to be introspective.
"But I think it could be so much better."
Field, I believe America could be so much better.
Why oh why do we black people allow the worst of us to represent all of us?
It's absolutely mind-boggling.
The problems being discussed have more to do with socio-economics and class than it does race.
Come to middle class black neighborhoods and you will see in tact nuclear families with well behaved achieving children who are made accountable for their actions by their parents.
In the 9 years I've lived in eastern PG county just about every child in my subdivision who has graduated high school has gone on to college.
They have partime and summer jobs, no out of wedlock kids and no trouble with the law.
We should be concentrating on how to help our ghetto brothers and sisters ascend into the middle class instead of acting like the black middle class doesn't even exist.
Black Diaspora,
Outstanding post!
I don't see many other race moms taking their kids to games alone.
That's because they have fathers who are materially present. In the black community, the women have to do everything. I'll take my hat off to allot of black women; they have one hell of a hard time, but many still persevere. I've seen whole families of women, aunts, sisters, mothers, who are raising kids with out any men present at all.
The success of black women in academics and the job market has been impressive as well. Despite t having to deal with being black and female, they have improved their lot.
"I don't see many other race moms taking their kids to games alone."
Maybe you should go to a few more hockey and soccer games.
Ever heard the term "soccer moms"?
wow fn!!!
excellent post
"nothing from nothing leaves nothing...that zero is too low to see.."
the diets of young people have become even more toxic than pork and fried chicken...ie candy/chips/weed/liquor/soda = newest poisons of choice
and what happened to birth control?
it is common for young women to have a baby by every man they date...literally...
(http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/rcaruth.htm)
also financial priorities must change...black patrons flood all malls/clothing stores/auto stores...these are the most rapidly depreciating projects one can buy
it is all truly tragic
i have dedicated my professional life to children and young parents...yet i thank god daily that i am childless and have no bio stakes in the poisonous mixes
children with parents like you are becoming rarer daily...and they have to fend in a world of rabid heathens...
i am petrified for the future of our race...
shame,
ab
This is an interesting conversation to seriously think about. Field does make some value points and I believe that there are cultural and structural factors to poverty. Within the black community we do not discuss economics and wealth building. I think there is a certain mentality among some African-Americans that believe that money isn't everything and have a more idealistic veiw, but here is some reality building wealth is important because it means sending your children to college, buying a house (hopefully paying for it in full), retirement, and going on a great vacation like 14 day trip to Morrocco, Spain, Egypt and visit Peru and Brazil (Well that is where I want to go). There is nothing wrong with living a comfortable life and have money to give back to the community as well. I think we looked at money more as a resource than thinking that it is the root to all evil (actually the quote the love of money is the root to all evil), we would have a better perspective of how to save, spend, and invest. I recently went to my brother's house to see my niece off to her prom, and both my brother and sister-in-law had the financial wherewithal for my niece's prom be what she wanted (she wanted to look like a princess, I have them posted on my blog http://hennasplace.wordpress.com. Those are moments that are priceless. My niece is always attending Seton Hall University in the fall to major in pre-med.
As I am writing this comment, I have to add another factor to poverty, psychology and emotions. There are those factors as well that tie into other factors. I went to the doctor the other day for routine check-up which everyone should get and my physician told me that my blood pressure was borderline. There are some genetics factors, my brother has high blood pressure along with other maternal and faternal relatives and diabetes is another disease. My doctor did not prescribe any medication, but she told me to not to eat processed and fast food (which I have to say I have not eaten in quite some time), exercise more, and lose 15 to 20 lbs. If making those changes means I can lower my blood pressure without taking medication, then I will change my eating habits, reduce my salt intake, switch to decaf, and exercise three to four times a week (maybe just running). I see so many people who have high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholestrol on medication and still eat the same food and I just shake my head because they do not realize that they have to change their habits and mindset. I understand it is not easy to change a habit, but if you make small changes everything you will eventually form a new habit to replace to the old one.
Hey Field,
I'm going to be seriously complimentary to you. (Don't let it go to your head!)
Your values are very similar to my Jamaican father's values. It's rare that I hear men of my own generation talk about the things you talk about on your blog.
Marriage is so undermined in the black community. I don't understand it. My parents came to this country with nothing, pooled their meager earnings, invested in the stock market, ascended to a middle-class life and made sure they took their two daughters on vacations every summer.
I'm shocked that years later, black people don't make it into the Magic Kingdom in droves. C'mon, it's not 1977, the year I went there?
Disney World was one of my favorite memories from my youth. No parent should deprive their kid of that experience. Field, your niece will always remember it. I don't know if you and Mrs. Field have kids, but your wisdom proves you will be an excellent father.
I just wished more black men had the same understanding of what marriage provides - stability, wealth, insurance, and of course love.
Everyday, I appreciate my father more and more, because when I look around at the black men of my generation, I can't help but be disappointed.
50% of white marriages end in divorce so take that "understanding of marriage" bs someplace else.
Name me another group of folk in ameriKa that still have to put up with this kind of crap.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/us/07baltimore.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
It's not us that discourage anything.
there is a science to breeding children just as their is a science to bredding wealth...
chaos in usa = garbage in = garbage out
asians rule the world because they get parenting best
britain is making strides in that direction too
see british woman who has been told her IQ is too low to be a proper parent
http://www.parentdish.com/2009/06/04/british-court-says-woman-isnt-smart-enough-to-be-a-mom/?icid=main|main|dl7|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parentdish.com%2F2009%2F06%2F04%2Fbritish-court-says-woman-isnt-smart-enough-to-be-a-mom%2F
fyi
ab
ab
What in God's name are you talking about?
Half of Asia's children live in dire poverty.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4174012.stm
Were does this self-hatred come from with some of you negroes?
I find it very sad.
Black people are consumers. I think it also has something to do with why we have lost our business acumen and there are so few black businesses. We make five cents and instead of putting it back into the business, we run out and celebrate by buying some nonsense. We were not always like this but if some new BS thing comes out, we just have to have it. So do white folks, by the way. Look at all those idjits lined up to buy i-phones and i-pods and the junk doesn't even work property. I think we, black folks, are just overrepresented in this form of knuckleheadedness.
I meant to say "work properly."
Why are you going all the way down to DisneyWorld, FN?
Why don't we start with the small stuff:
Like the local museums, the aquarium, the planetarium, the Art Institute (every major city has them).
Unless it's a field trip, you will NOT see a lot of Black folk taking their children to these outings. It begins there, and you build up from that. I don't know about your city, but where I live, every last one of these places even has a FREE DAY -and still, Black folk are rare.
We have to expose our children to different things. We have to broaden their horizons. We have to let them see that there is a whole world out there.
I went the Disney Route last year.My sister and I went with my niece, her husband and her new baby..the kid was too young, but it was interesting. We brought along our teenaged nephew -we were uncool,but he needed to spend time with his Aunts and his new cousin.
- if it hadn't of been for the Delta Convention being there at the same time, I doubt we would have seen as many Black folks as we did with their children. Nearly every Black family we spoke with had some connection to the Deltas.
And I think it's cultural and structural. Cultural on the part of the greater society that slapped us back with Jim Crow post Reconstruction when black people made significant gains. And cultural when we lost the belief that we had value and could achieve. I don't know when the culture shift happened but after the culture shift, it became structural.
OT. There is a book called "Slavery By Aother Name" written by a white man (for all you white - and black - trolls who can't believe anything that comes out of the a black person's mouth) named Douglas Blackmon about how slavery coninuted in this country until WWII. Blacks would be thrown in jail for years for minor offenses and used for hard labor. It's a horror story that I did not know existed. I certainly knew of chain gangs but I never realized that this was a planned method to build enterprise on the backs of free black labor. The book's been out about a year. I watched a presentation by the author on Book TV a few weeks ago. See the link below. Rage Alert. This story will really piss you off a lot.
http://www.slaverybyanothername.com/the-book/
You should have put the quotation marks around "culture". Do we have one? Let me put that another way. Did the culture projected by the Huxtables promote wealth building? Why is that portrayal of "our" "culture" any less valid than the one you seem to have decided is the most prominent in the myriad of Black cultural expression to be found in this country. I can assure you that the Huxtables was much closer to the culture I grew up in than say the Evans family from Good Times.
Garbage in garbage out comes to mind.
"Black people are consumers. I think it also has something to do with why we have lost our business acumen and there are so few black businesses."
Oh geez.
Black businesses are growing at 4 times the rates of other ethnic groups.
Over a third of my client base is black owned businesses.
Some of you negroes really need to get out more often.
Black folks are doing great things in America these days.
http://www2.nccommerce.com/eclipsfiles/13840.pdf
Maybe you should go to a few more hockey and soccer games.
Ever heard the term "soccer moms"?
Reread my post, I said NBA games, not regular ol after school activities, a lot of parents can't make it to those
Well as a divorced mom of one, I can say that I have taken my daughter on several vacations. We have gone to Disney as a family, we have also done the Disney cruise as a family and that was so much fun and I have taken her to Paris once I was divorced. So it was just the two of us overseas for the first time. I wanted to go to Australia but my daughter wanted to go to France. We enjoyed ourselves mightily.
But interesting point, I asked my friend who is a single dad also black, if he would like to go with us to Paris, he said no he would rather speand the money on video games for his son because thats something "that he can see".
I really stopped talking to that guy after that because the experience of visiting someplace different is invaluable. He didnt see the value in traveling somewhere historic but he did see the value in video games.
Field,
The nuclear family just doesn't seem to work for many people in the United States.
Single women now have the abilty to buy a house, raise a family, take vacations, without the partnership of a spouse.
What I really think at this moment is that most men want a "good" women to do it all,be their mommy, and then add some nice a$$ on the side to bolster their poor self esteem.
Why is Magic Johnson advertising for Rent-a-Center?
On Disney specifically -- could it also be that it just isn't a Black place to go????
I am guessing here but I remember my mother wasn't big on taking us to Disneyland because it was really only white friendly.
Hey Field,
You have presented some valid points!!
I am sooo tired of hearing the "black folks can't afford it" malarkey...
I see so called "economically-disadvantaged" blacks buying $200 sneaks for Ray-Ray and there is no college fund set up for their children.
And how many so called "economically-disadvantaged" blacks are riding around in gas-guzzling SUVs?
And how many so called "economically-disadvantaged" blacks own $500 phones?
And how many so called "economically-disadvantaged" blacks spend $800 a year on cable?
The structural reasons for poverty aren't HARDLY going to explain the mentality that it is okay to be consumers and not wealth builders.
Mellody Hobson of Ariel Capital Management started a school to teach minority children how to invest and the children have a stock portfolio. We need more of her schools!
Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
Lisa
Some of you people on this post need to decide if our people should save our money or SPEND it to a trip to DISNEYLAND, first some say we are not exposed to the so called better thing's in life! will going to DISNEYLAND help to define us as a people, some say if our children lived in a MIDDLE CLASS COMMUNITY they will come out PERFECT, not so, I have seen it all, those kid's may have a father and mother in the home, but, some are just as disrespectful as you can get, some folk's with money know how to cover wrong doing up when it come's to their children, and let's not forget it is the so called well mannered middle class kid's that will MURDER father and mother in a heart beat if they can't have their way, and this is after they have been exposed to all type's of so called worldly pleasure's, and the sad thing is some middle class black kid's are falling into this trap, it is noted that some middle class black kid's have murdered their parent/parent's because they did not receive new car's! and these kid's looked as upright as you can get, one even had his parent's killed for LIFE INSURANCE! now i wonder where he got that idea from?
HI GRANNY* PROPHETESS WALLACE, I am ANON 1:19
Considering how far black business has to go to catch up, the growth rate is just shy of good news. Latino businesses in the US are far and away ahead of black businesses. I suspect Asian owned business are too.
I also have to wonder what percentage of black businesses in the US are owned by native born blacks compared to black immigrants or second generation. I know of many of businesses owned by Nigerians.
In Oakland, where the black population is about 35% (and steadily declining), the dearth of black businesses is the topic of much discussion and controversy. I look forward to the black business boom hitting my town but I'm not holding my breath.
It's debated if "itis" is caused by tryptophan or excessive consumption of carbohydrates (plus alcohol) but it isn't caused by high fat content. Turkey breast & split peas contain a lot of tryptophan. Many women would just say it's an excuse men use to get out of helping with the dishes after Thanksgiving dinner.
us
i am speaking academically and professionally
i am not comparing rural asians or rural americans...not sugar ditch ms or the delta to rice paddies in vietnam
i am comparing nyc to tokyo!!!
wake up!
ab
uptownsteve said...
Black people, when are we going to start discussing our tremendous success and resilience in a nation that has never had our interests at heart?"
I'll tell you what happens when blacks talk about their successes. Folks get the crab in the bucket syndrome, call you out for "bragging", call you a bitch and a token.
And you wonder why? Negro please! Misery LOVES company that's why!
Anonymous said...
Some of you people on this post need to decide if our people should save our money or SPEND it to a trip to DISNEYLAND, first some say we are not exposed to the so called better thing's in life! will going to DISNEYLAND help to define us as a people, some say if our children lived in a MIDDLE CLASS COMMUNITY they will come out PERFECT
We are just using Disney World as an example, but how about the Grand Canyon? This is the example of the mentality with some people within the black community. It is about using the money as a resource and I do believe that some people in their other comments mentioned something about starting businesses, building a retirement fund, saving money for a personal pursuit such as traveling or buying a farm. I think you are missing the point. We are talking about defining and building wealth and there is nothing wrong with that. We do not be Bill Gates, but I can use money as resource to fund my child's education if he or she wants to become a doctor. It is not about anyone coming out perfect either. Anon do you have a dream would like to live? That dream can turn into a plan and part of planning will include how money it will take to make this dream happen. It is about what you want to do.
us
how old are your children?
visit ANY urban elementary school for a day
preferably grades p-2
then you will see that cosby and i have been far too reticent and kind...
it is 1000 times worse than asia!
fyi
ab
alicia banks said...
asians rule the world because they get parenting best"
Why is it that when you say something like this, which is quite true BTW, people want to lay that you aren't proud to be Black crap on you?
I'd venture to say that if more Black people WERE proud to be Black, taking pride in education, parenting, and family, statements like this would loose their validity.
ditto fly
i love african people and am EXTREMEKY afrocentric
that is why i dare to tell truths...even when they hurt
ie
asians rule the globe because they rule academia and cerebral monitored parenting!
until we value math, science, family planning the way we cherish sports, cars, and clothes we will remain eons behind asians
ie
see
http://www.greatschools.net/content/article.page?state=CA&aid=933
http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/education_academia_study/voa_asian_achievement_1205.asp
we have the same power
but we must IMMEDIATELY change completely tiwsted priorities
ie
the black church should be hosting tutoring and parenting workshops the same way they are hosting homohating/h8 bs...
peace
ab
ps:
we do best what we do most often
while asians are toiling over math and sci
our kids are singing, dancing, and shooting hoops
so asian kids run all financial empires that own our singing/dancing/balling kids's contracts
asian kids create the gadgets that our kids covet/buy/kill for etc
shame!!!!
ab
Granny, I tried to post this before, but messed it up somehow so I am retyping an altered version. Anyway, I as a black person want to say something positive about black people. My Mom and I were talking about this the other day and I think black folks are AMAZING, STRONG and RESILIENT . We have contributed so much to this country that has been overlooked from the blood sweat and tears we contributed against our will to help build this country, the civil rights we scratched and clawed our way to earn thus paving the way for other groups to gain, the levels of forgiveness and kindness we generally show to other groups no matter how they treat us. Also, though it is often over emphasized, since too often we get lauded only for our roles in entertainment, without us America would not have evolved many of our cultural contributions to the world like jazz, the blues, and rock and roll. We have raised the bar in athleticism in many sports (not just the obvious either but in baseball, which we are beginning to forget, tennis, and now golf) And though they don't always get the credit they deserve authors like WEB DuBois and James Baldwin changed the academic and literary landscape of this country as much as their many white counterparts. Even the undersung John HOpe Franklin. Yes we have many problems to overcome but after nearly 400 years of slavery, 100 years of official Jim Crow, and just 40 years of equal rights (on paper) we have done a lot and we will continue to overcome and grow. We also get lots of bad press and get treated more harshly than most others when we screw up. Despite the crazy folks coming out of the woodwork on the right, the fact that we have an African-American as president, and many blacks and other minorities in senior positions, the world is changing. There will still be set backs, we still have lots to do and we need to change the mindsets of our brothers and sisters trapped in the inner-city but we will persevere. We are AMAZING!!! One of my aunts used to tell me that people are afraid of what we can really do so they keep us down, I used to disbelieve her but I think she was probably right. We can do just as much as anyone else in this world, if not more its just gonna take a minute.
Speaking of disneyworld, listen to this heffer rant about princesses.
I guess princesses were ok until they decided to create a Black one.
http://www.theroot.com/views/enough-princesses?gt1=38002
Kid, your comments were on point man, you too Prophetess Wallace.
Hi Granny!, how have you been?
"while asians are toiling over math and sci
our kids are singing, dancing, and shooting hoops."
This is stereotypical nonsense.
The black middle class attained that status by being focused and disciplined and they are training their children the same way.
My kids and their friends had tutors, attended math workshops and study groups.
I really think that some folks don't want to believe or hear anything positive about black folks.
OT again. Yesterday, a one-year old and three-year old were shot in their beds in South Berkeley by stray bullets that crashed through the wall of their bedroom. Don't know who the shooters were but it WAS South Berkeley.
They interviewed one marble mouthed negroette on the street who was clearly a gang banger (dressed in her black and white uniform of the street) and the b***h actually said it had nothing to do with her and she didn't care. Yes she did.
Shoot a child, be a man. The few, the brave, the Baby Killers. Sign up now in a 'hood near you. Bastards. Be the envy of your friends. Murder someone who can barely walk or talk.
Do these animals get off on this stuff? Do they laugh about it? In LA, the Latino bangers used to call the toddler victims of gang shootouts "mushrooms." Isn't that just too cute? Seriously, these people need to be gathered up and put on a slow boat in the Pacific to nowhere.
us
you are speaking about your generation
i am speaking about children who are under 10 today
your denial will never save our race
fyi
ab
GrannyStandingforTruth said...
"Hmmmm... I know without a doubt that Jesse Lee Peterson, Ron Christie, and a few others are self-hating negroes. But you know, I'm really beginning to wonder if all negroes suffer from that same self-hating disease. The reason this thought crossed my mind is because I never hear anything positive being said about black people by their own black people. It's all negative and depressing.
In fact, when is the last time I ever heard a black person speak something positive or good about their own race. Truthfully speaking, I haven't. Everything said about blacks by their own people is depressing, negative, and discouraging. I don't know whether to label it indirectly or directly but all blacks contribute in keeping their own people down. Every other race encourages their own, but not black folks. Blacks are fed negativity and discouraging seeds on a daily basis, nonstop. They are immersed in negativity and discouragement."
Granny- you are so right, me and my wife were just talking about this the other day.
If you notice, no matter how bad a white person may be, they never talk bad about each other.
I see this phenomenom almost daily. Look at the crime shows- I've actually heard murder victims family members have at the least spoke civil about the murderer! I believe it's a subconscious rule they live by. I think they do it as a way to "save face" for the white community, rather than to have them be seen as monstrous criminals.
i speak positively about blacks always
but i will never speak exclusively positively about anything/any race
perfection is a fantasy
and censoring negative truths = suicide
ignoring/denying/sugarcoating genocidal ills will never save one black child
fyi
ab
us:
after you visit grade p-2
try any AP classes in any urban high school...see how few black kids are voluntarily there
they have the brains to excel in AP but they choose to evade tha greater academic toil...
so they have more time to dance/hoop/watch tv etc...
ask any public hs teacher
they will agree
fyi
ab
wcs:
shame!
i bet she was 25 and under with a child 10 or less
we and our babies are doomed!
ab
shabass:
i do not dictate my life by what white people do
why do u?
mu concern is asving my race
not mimicking whites
asians could teach white slackers the same lessons as black ones
this is an issue of class
and culture not race
there are fewer elite/educated blacks by comparison to whites...fyi
i see whites bash each other daily:
republicans v. dems
yuppies v. trailer park
ivy league v. state school greeks etc
tot moms v. nancy grace
etc
but i see far more sabotaged black kids doomed by their toxic black parents
fyi
ab
I agree with Field. I'm a 19-yr. old Black college student and I know plenty of little black kids who would die for the chance to go to Disney World/Land. I've been once and as a child it was the most amazing thing that ever happened to me. However, I know many who cannot afford to go on a family vacation and the major reason for that is poverty or if not poverty, straight up lack of funds. They are too busy paying for new cars and systems to put in those cars and name brand EVERYTHING-meanwhile, the cable is cut off or they have no hot/running water. It is a damn shame and Field-you're right-these people are going "around in cirlces"! They are passing their "I dont give a damn about anythying except for the here and now" attitudes down from generation to generation. And before someone gets on here talking about how "they dont know any better...they arent motivated...no1 is tryna help them..." cut that out NOW!!! Many of these people wouldnt want to change their trifflin ways if you paid them to. I know of many programs in highly populated urban areas ( I'm close to philly and go to school near Newark NJ) offered to the youth of today and "urban" black men would rather be on "da block" and the young "urban" women would rather be chasing these guys up and down "a block". It is beyond sad and worse than a shame. It doesnt have to be this way. I understand that other races have it easier than us in many areas of life, but when opportunities knock on our door-with a package for a better life for us and our children-many of us dont answer--preventing our children from even dereaming about visiting a place like Disney World/Land. And that, is no1 elses fault-but ours.
The Shaker Heights study showed that middle class black school children do not achieve on a par as others do. Someone tell me how in the hell someone can come here from another country, speak no English, know nothing about the US and become valedictorian and home grown negroes can only opine about discrimination?
http://www.racematters.org/whyareblackstudentslagging.htm
Here is Oakland, I was shocked to learn that there are no PTAs east of Lake Merrit in the flatlands. HOW CAN THAT BE?
So my kid get selected as one of the top black students in the county a few weeks ago. We go to the ceremony and what happens? It starts an hour late because black folks can't tell time. Then toward the end of the ceremony after most of the kids have received their awards, some of the parents go to the floor of the place where all the awardees were sitting to get them so they can leave. Right in the middle of the ceremony and before the full scholarships were given out to the high school students!
I'll tell you I have never been so disgusted with my "people" in my entire life!!!!! URGH!!!!!!!
Meant to say "Here in Oakland, I was shocked to learn that there are no PTAs east of Lake Merritt in the flatlands. HOW CAN THAT BE?"
Anon 5:41: Interesting comments.
ps:
some kids cannot even begin to think of studying/grades
they love in american war zones where they are just tryinfg to live to see a new day nightly!
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_12535954
shame!
ab
excuse all the typos today
rushing and distracted
ab
I may be in love with you. Not sure yet.
Co-sign, agreed, right on bro, etc... all that!
I just know in my heart that if the only thing we accomplished in 2009 is to shift our community's focus on what's important, we'd be light years ahead of where we are right now.
Even my most educated black people are trippin up on the stupid things. Cars and parties we can't afford... so we can look fly on the local social networking scene. Please....
I'm ready for us to get real.
west coast story said...
Someone tell me how in the hell someone can come here from another country, speak no English, know nothing about the US and become valedictorian"
Asian kids do this ALL THE TIME!!!!
And as a former high schol chemistry teacher in an urban school, I need to make one more comment. Inner city kids want to achieve as much as other kids do. The difference is that "other" kids have someone in the home or school pushing them to succeed whereas many of our kids don't have such influences. However, this is where the "villiage" is supposed to come in. The majority of my kids excelled because I required it.
west coast story said...
OT again. Yesterday, a one-year old and three-year old were shot in their beds in South Berkeley by stray bullets that crashed through the wall of their bedroom. Don't know who the shooters were but it WAS South Berkeley.
They interviewed one marble mouthed negroette on the street who was clearly a gang banger (dressed in her black and white uniform of the street) and the b***h actually said it had nothing to do with her and she didn't care. Yes she did.
Black talk show host here calls them Urban Terrorists.
I wanted to argue with him, but, I have come to agree with him.
You know, all of the negative stuff I hear about black folks, I would hate black people too if I was white. In fact, I would be terrified of blacks. Not only would I go out and stock up on Ak47's and bullets. I would even go so far as to try to get legislation passed to enable me to buy an armored tank for personal use. I wouldn't stop there, I'd even join the police force and help rid society of all of these worthless black folks. Everytime a black person came within five feet of me, I'd be ready to shoot them and so I could save planet earth from black destruction. I would probably want to start bombing black neighborhoods.
All my life, I have did what I could to fight for my people's right to equality and fairness in justice. However, I beginning to realize that it is hopeless and a waste of time. And it is, because I hear more complaints from my own than good and no remedies or solutions. If someone comes up with a solution, black people fight against each other, can't seem to agree on anything, and nothing gets done.
What happened to those black folks that would rally together and get things done? I remember the Black Panthers tried to help our community back in the 60's and
70's, but were falsely accused by J Edgar Hoover of being criminals and their efforts were sabatoged. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X tried too but they were called racist and communist and assassinated. Therefore, I guess it is hopeless to try and help our black community. The black community is demonized on two fronts by whites with the help of MSM and by our own black people. The sad part is that some of our own blacks are contributing to their train of thought because they are Scarfaced indoctrinated, the majority of black men are in prisons, killing one another, or dying contributing to a shortage of black men. Because of loneliness our black women are lost and on a mission searching for Mr. Right but he doesn't exist anymore in the black neighborhood. Therefore, what's the use?
Alicia BITCH-don't start your shit with me today
You fucking troll, nobody said anything to you, we'll go for 300 this time for sure. You must really like me to go out of your way to try to insult me you nasty condescending bully dike bitch leave me alone, I don't dyke-I mean like you, so go to hell and go find something to munch on TROLL
Alicia, I bet yor dad used to molest you when you were a kid,right? Or was it your mom?
BTW, Hello Prophetess Wallace and Shabazz. I'm doing okay, just a little tired I've been kind of busy today running some errands and doing a few things around the house. I pray that both of you are blessed and all is well with you.
Oops, I almost forgot, Lisa J and Black Diaspora your comments were very uplifting. Bless both of you!
Black Diaspora you are a very wise man with a deep understanding of things, and I've always sensed that in you. Lisa J your mother and aunt speak the truth from experience and you are blessed to have their guidance. The word says that the old women are to teach the young women, and they have fulfilled their part in teaching you and are probably as proud of you as I am because you recognize.
Why don't we start with the small stuff:
Like the local museums, the aquarium, the planetarium, the Art Institute (every major city has them).
Unless it's a field trip, you will NOT see a lot of Black folk taking their children to these outings. It begins there, and you build up from that. I don't know about your city, but where I live, every last one of these places even has a FREE DAY -and still, Black folk are rare.
We have to expose our children to different things. We have to broaden their horizons. We have to let them see that there is a whole world out there.
EXACTLY, Rikyrah. Might I add, the local library. Most have some sort of activities for children and teens on a weekly basis (even more so in the summer). And I've never seen anything there that wasn't completely free.
" we and our babies are doomed!
ab "
Wow, AB, I feel really sorry for you.
ab
"I am speaking about children who are under 10 today
your denial will never save our race"
Are you actually saying that there is no emerging black middle and professional class after our generation?
That's insane.
I see them every day.
Nobody is denying that there is a stagnant, dysfunctional, self-perpetuating urban black underclass today but why do you, fly and wcs insist that THEY are representative of black people in general?
Jee-SUZ.
Everyday there are black people attaining positions and ascending into roles unheard of a generation ago and ya'll just totally disregard it then yap about ghetto criminals.
Just one instance.
When I enlisted in the US Coast Guard in 1980, there were exactly 5 black E-9s (the highest enlisted rank) and 35 black USCG officers in the whole force (36,000).
Today you have black admirals, hundreds of black flag officers, warrants and senior enlisteds.
A friend of mine suggested that this phenomenon among Cosby acolytes is not necessarily self-hatred but misplaced idealism.
The notion that no black succeeds until all blacks succeed.
No black neighborhood is functioning and positive until there are no black ghettoes.
That is a burden and stigma no other group of people is subjected to.
A glorious black man, his lovely, accomplished wife and two gorgeous daughters presently occupy the White House and you negroes still let the baggy pants wearin', high school dropout criminal define our people.
I just don't friggin get it.
As far as I'm concerned, the woman is mentally deficient and needs to be placed under psychiatric care. Her style of posting reflects a person who needs to settle with the various demons floating around her pretty little head.
Granny, NEVER GIVE UP. Eventually a lot of someones somewhere will stand up and decide that in order for change to come about in the community, they'll have to be that change and encourage others to be that change, too. Grassroots efforts tend to be slow and methodical, but momentum gets built up and eventually it will become a force to be reckoned with.
On the other hand, I've always wondered if the white powers-that-be (WPTB) longed to "solve" the "black problem" the same way they managed to "solve" the "injun problem". Native Americans were herded towards desolate reservations where most would drink themselves to death in order to numb and dull the feelings of worthlessness and self-hatred. Now the WPTB are content to let inner city Blacks herd themselves in ghetto reservations where they drink, drug, stab and shoot each other to death for the same reasons and much more. The problem with this is that "those doggone negrers keep spittin' out babies like bunny rabbits." So mandatory Norplant installations for the ladies when they first sign up for welfare? Depo-Provera shots as a condition for continued collection of state and federal assistance for those under 40? Note how the Hispanic women won't have to go through that by far and large -- the WPTB have to cultivate their next "slave-labor race", ya know.
The WPTB seemed to have done a good job feeding Black children the subconscious meme that they're worthless and won't amount to shit, buttressed by their own parents who've been feed the same meme. They've let Black media devolve into a minstrel show of sorts, feeding young minds with images of thugs getting rich off of thuggery, women who think they're only worth as much as their bodies are and the tactic notion that all of this is "normal" for us black folk. Time to put this bullshit to an end.
I believe FN that you and your wife, my husband and I, my siblings, their families, my friends, and many people here reviewing your blog are doing our best to achieve what we believe are our right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".
I must admit that I have finally realized what I may view as happy and joyful for me is not necessarily the same for another. I am a Foster Care Social Worker in Philadelphia. I have unknownly passed judgement on parents by the standards of DHS and the white man policies. Were they good for my people - no. So to answer your question, if a person wants to work hard and spend his/her money on a video game with his child and sit and play with him over many months or take the money and go to Disney for a couple of days it is THEIR choice.
Stop judging FN. You chose to go to Disney with your wife and niece, someone in North Philly may choose to have a crabfest in their back yard with 50 relatives. You choose to save for the future you may never see, they may chose to spend now. Happiness and the pursuit is a choice.
Uptown Steve, I agree.
"The notion that no black succeeds until all blacks succeed.
No black neighborhood is functioning and positive until there are no black ghettoes.
That is a burden and stigma no other group of people is subjected to.
A glorious black man, his lovely, accomplished wife and two gorgeous daughters presently occupy the White House and you negroes still let the baggy pants wearin', high school dropout criminal define our people."
I think you just hit the ball out of the freakin park.
Most people see Blacks as one singular monolith, very much like people see the Borg. One singular entity. Nevermind that the Borg are made up of a nearly endless array of different races and species. Blacks are seen as a monolith, but the Black community is so diverse in ideals and philosophies that it'd make your head spin.
As for the thugs sucking all of the media oxygen out of the room, the loudest mouths get the most airtime. Plus the WPTB love to display "ignorant niggers in their natural state of ignorant niggery". Anything to not only validate their personal view of Blacks (after all, this is all the slaves can aspire to, so why grant them freedom in the first place?), but also cement that viewpoint in the minds of people all over the world, to the point of which anyone with black skin is automatically pissed on and rendered suspect at every turn.
i do not see blacks as a monolith
but i do see math as a reality
that one family in the white house will never affect our race like the millions of saggy pantsed turbo breeders that grossly outnumber that one black family
there are more desmonds than baracks
and that is what is killing our race internally
denial or no
fyi
ab
Mack Lyons:
"
On the other hand, I've always wondered if the white powers-that-be (WPTB) longed to "solve" the "black problem" the same way they managed to "solve" the "injun problem.
The WPTB seemed to have done a good job feeding Black children the subconscious meme that they're worthless and won't amount to shit, buttressed by their own parents who've been feed the same meme. They've let Black media devolve into a minstrel show of sorts, feeding young minds with images of thugs getting rich off of thuggery, women who think they're only worth as much as their bodies are and the tactic notion that all of this is "normal" for us black folk. Time to put this bullshit to an end."
"Amen! Preach it! You catch on quick and understand their ulterior motives."
Granny is a steadfast warrior. (wink)
us
my family is a member of that upper middle class
the difference in you and i is that i will not pretend that me and my kin are not GROSSLY outnumbered by the desmonds of the world TODAY
i live my life on the front lines of children 10 and under and parents 25-30 and under...'wt
what is theory to you is daily war for me...a war to save the lost children you deny
do not feel sorry for me
i have been well and live a charmed life
pray for all of those babies who do not have the parents and opps that us and i have had...
fyi
ab
______
shabass/"anon":
ever seen that RAID roach commercial on tv?...
you and the gaybashing anons here act just like those roaches when you scream your meaningless slurs in unison on contact...
if only you could be exterminated as easily
shame!!!
ab
shabass:
your horridly limited vocabulary reminds me of a quotation...i paraphrase liberally:
profanity is the screams of mental midgets longing to be intellecyually taller
i am proud to be your BITCH =
brilliant
intellectual
countering a
tool's
hollers
fyi
ab
screaming to be taloler
us:
this generation = more foster care kids than ever before
from worse homes than anyone in our generation ever even imagined
and many are illegally medicated too:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-05-29/story/report_many_foster_kids_being_medicated_in_floridas
fyi,
ab
"Tim Pawlenty Urges College Republicans To Follow Eminem's Example"
Well, what can I say. I guess, white rappers who spit out insulting rhymes towards white women, tell you to physically abuse your spouses, and to sue your momma are to be respected, and are the pillar of society compared to black rappers. Paulenty is politicking for the young white people who listen to and love rap music. BTW, it's a lot of them out there too. How slick!
Mack Lyons,
"As for the thugs sucking all of the media oxygen out of the room, the loudest mouths get the most airtime. Plus the WPTB love to display "ignorant niggers in their natural state of ignorant niggery". Anything to not only validate their personal view of Blacks (after all, this is all the slaves can aspire to, so why grant them freedom in the first place?), but also cement that viewpoint in the minds of people all over the world, to the point of which anyone with black skin is automatically pissed on and rendered suspect at every turn."
I think you just hit the grand slam my brother.
The depiction of the thug/criminal as the face of the black community is a rationale for self-serving anti-black sentiment for certain whites and a cheap explanation for the psychological displacement from the community and desire for white approval by certain blacks.
As exemplified by this statement from "ab".
"my family is a member of that upper middle class
the difference in you and i is that i will not pretend that me and my kin are not GROSSLY outnumbered by the desmonds of the world TODAY"
Neither the upper middle class nor the "desmonds" are representative of black America as a whole.
The majority of us are just trying to pay our bills, do our jobs, raise our kids and just fuckin' LIVE.
Just like everyone else.
@ Alicia Banks
while asians are toiling over math and sci
our kids are singing, dancing, and shooting hoops
*********************************
I don't know about Asians owning all the empires, but I know i am sick and tired of so many Black kids more occupied with foolishness than anything else. We now have an entire generation of young Black men who are too lazy to PULL UP THEIR PANTS, and the young girls who are dumb enough to think these boys are men.
I'm in NYC, and there's this thing now with these kids selling candy on the trains with the spiel "i'm selling candy to put myself through college. I'm doing something positive, i'm not selling drugs or robbing people, so buy my candy cuz i'm being positive blah blah" When did our standards get so low, that now these individuals now want a gold star for NOT BEING CRIMINALS?!! And no this is not a sweeping generalization of all of our kids, the ones in my family would make anyone proud. But there are enough of these slackers to affect an entire generation.
ANON 5:41, you say you are in college, good, from the way thing's are going, you may have to hide out their for a while, have you heard job's are scarce, so I suggest you get all the GRANT'S and LOAN'S you can and use them as a mean's of survival, it's rough out here in the REAL WORLD, and furthermore some people can try and try and yet they do not achieve their goal, would you believe their are people on the street corner that have given up on life, I see them all the time, have you seen any of these people? some of these people are ex DOCTOR'S, LAWYER'S, as well as PASTOR'S, and the list go's on, you are nineteen, you have a life before you to live and I PRAY that the hardship's will not keep you from losing your focus, DISNEYLAND is FANTASY, that why's so many adult's love it, it's their little moment to forget about the care's of this world.
Alicia their are many BLACK CHURCH'S that have program's for our young people, you should go and visit one, their are youth activity's going on from sunday to monday, most church's are geared toward's doing what ever it take to keep our youth off the street, the church goal is to keep them so busy that they wont's even think about going astray, and most of the time this work's, but, for those who chose to be disobedient, well a hard head make's a hard life!
HI GRANNY* PROPHETESS WALLACE
"The majority of us are just trying to pay our bills, do our jobs, raise our kids and just...LIVE.
Just like everyone else."
Amen! Now that's the truth there.
bt:
amen sista!
i am speaking what i know and live each day DEEP in the trenches of a NEW gen...
bill cosby and obama called out men who claim
"i am not in prison...i am with my kids etc"
so
???
that is what you shoudl be
so many coddled middle class kids even
do not have chores
or expect cash for what my gen did for free!!!
like making our beds etc
my mom was like michelle
we had housekeepers
but they were not allowed to do OUR chores!
so many kids live in filth!!!
they never see anyone do a chore
until they are in my classes!
and they learn to love doing them
as our parents taught us to...
ie
see
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/12/18/katrina/index.html
all that is good about us all had to be learned
a new gen is being taught nothing but foolishness/rap/fighting/sex etc
shame!!!
ab
anon:
ditto
some black churches like TUCC/MCC even welcome gays
but i deal in numbers
and most black churches are my enemies as a lesbian who cares about the community rather than fashion shows and pastor idolatry
peace
ab
us:
i must live in the world i see daily
and in my world
desmonds/his baby mamas and their clones rule
most of the blacks i know under 30 are a curse
most over 40 are an inspiration
and i know many whites who say teh same about whites
like nancy grace
this is about age and class
not race
4 real,
ab
"bill cosby and obama called out men who claim
"i am not in prison...i am with my kids etc"
so
???
that is what you shoudl be"
SO, why are you attacking us for for merely being black men????????
Direct your ire toward those who are not doing what they are supposed to do and stop stigmatizing the majority of brothers (and sisters) who are doing the right things for the right reasons while nobody but their families and friends notice.
us:
have you ever said that?
did u email bill cosby and obama too?
or just me???
they said it first and they are both black men
you are way too sensitive
i was not directing that at you!
neither was bt?
did you email her too?
fyi
ab
@ Alicia
Funny you bring up the middle class kids-a co-worker in a working/middle class family has a nephew who has received a FULL 4 YEAR SCHOLARSHIP to a military college. He'll get a great education, travel the world, and the average starting salaries for his soon to be profession are in the mid-50's. Not too shabby. But he flunked his first semester because he missed too many classes; apparently the 5 am wake up calls were too early for him. He did not like being told to keep his dorm room neat. Fortunately his family cares enough about him to get him on the right track before he ends up another statistic. For too many of us high achievement is considered a waste of time, or unattainable.
Field, re: building wealth for future generations-it may have already been said but too many Black people live for survival, here and now. Another friend of mind lost her father recently, and he was a retired, 25+ year IBM executive. After reviewing his finances their family realized they had just enough to bury the man, plus a few thousand bucks from life insurance. No investments, bonds, nada. Makes no sense, but to be honest I know I struggle with this myself sometimes. When I realized how much money I accumulated contributing 10% of my salary to my 401k instead of the minimum, i wanted to kick myself for not doing it years earlier. It's a mindset many of us have to train ourselves for.
I like how you countered someone with a Phd in sociology with anecdotal evidence. Yes, that's real weighty. Also, when you talk about the habits that keep us from wealth building I see how you don't take in account class and its affects. Do we think that middle and upper middle class black people have the same habits and lower and working class blacks? Really? Or how about this, did you note the quality of food available for working and lower class people in urban communities compared to the middle class? What about school cirriculum?
You say people need to take responsibility and that's great. People should drink water but that's bloody difficult to do in a desert, don't you think. I find the lack of a materialist analysis in your post to be stunning. Or does structural violence not factor into the culture shit of diet? Because, you know, stress has like no affect on health or anything.
You are speaking in generalities using a minority of a minority. And the structure shapes the culture. Maybe saying building wealth is what's really important isn't a great idea. Anomie theory states that when lacking pro social tools some people will actually become deviant not because they reject the goals of society, actually they have internalized them and desire to attain them but will seek out the means available to do so. So maybe a single-minded focus on wealth isn't good and maybe telling a group of people that are actually socially conservative, in which you base your generalitys on the minority, isn't actually productive?
ditto bt
this whole gen is a new breed
even the rich are coddled and spoiled
ie
"the millenials" are causing havoc in corp america
cell phones
no ethics
no scruples
expect to be ceo's in 2 wks etc
even the cream of the crop is rotted to the core
ie
reality tv shows prove rich parents can be as toxic as poor
ie
the hogans
kardashians
osbornes
etc
http://www.generationsatwork.com/articles/millenials.htm
long day
peace
ab
"it may have already been said but too many Black people live for survival, here and now."
I'd purpose that's a institutional behavior carried over from slavery times, back when you could do NOTHING BUT LIVE TO SURVIVE, here and now.
Sometimes it takes untold generations to break bad institutional habits. Asians (including Indians and other South Asians), Africans and other immigrant groups haven't had to deal with nearly 400 years of institutionalized habits, designed to cope with the rigors of slavery but now ill-suited for the world of today. If they all still wonder why Black folks can't seem to get their sh*t together, they can always have themselves stripped down, chained up and made to pick cotton with their bare hands from sun-up to sundown in some good ole South Alabama sun, so they can see what we originally had to put up with.
Chitlins? I know some of ya loves sum chitlins, but eating the southbound portions of a hog should have ended a long time ago. It's 2009 and we're still eating things that "Massa" threw away or "allowed" us to have.
us:
school kids in tokyo are not gunning each other down daily as they are in my home of chicago either...
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/news/moving_america_news/10022
fyi
ab
ab
I can show you violent Asian gangs in Northern VA, not far from where I live.
The murder rates in Moscow and Caracas surpass any American city.
As well as the fact that violent crime is not an issue in my 90% black suburb or the surrounding areas.
But I'm not going to convince you of anything.
You have internalized white racism and are convinced that your own people are uniquely screwed up and pathological.
I hope we can remain civil but frankly I think alot of the negativity I see from you, wcs and Fly is projection of your own personal unhappiness and lack of fulfillment.
I may be wrong but I don't think so.
@ Mack;
I should have added it's a given that this is behavior carried over from slavery times, you're right. But first people have to realize they are engaging in social pressures that were forced on us. I have had so many online debates with people (usually females) about the habit of too many Black American women who choose to not have life partners when they have a lot of children, and when I compare that to when we were freakin breeded and had no choice, folks get touchy. I'm not talking about the single mom with one or two kids who separated with their father.
I love Erykah Badu, but i think anyone who chooses to have 3 babies by three different men (and not marry any of them) is a little out there. From my online observations, there seem to be more than a few Black women who think this is ok (and to be fair, just as many who are repulsed by it). But why is it socially acceptable at all...did any other group of people record a song like 'that's not my baby daddy"-and all the posts I read sound like intelligent, educated women who use the argument that the nuclear family is not the norm for everyone, etc. I agree, but why is it ok for so many of us to treat our own bodies like baby machines, and let the fathers off the hook when it comes to daily responsibilities-smh.
Re: the chitlins and other pig parts: i've never touched a chitlin/pig foot/snout but have to admit, i joke about fried foods being one of our daily requirements, myself included. But i balance it with my Whole Foods and organic juices and feel better about myself-lol
us:
you are definitely wrong!
i am very happy
i just dare to tell many unhappy truths
my own nice peaceful neighborhood is only my sanctuary
not my blinder/cocoon etc
fyi
ab
ditto bt:
i love eb too
as a singer
never as a mom/role model
another unhappy truth is that some of the most gifted musicians are horrid spouses etc
ie
i adore bob marley
for his music and locks only
as he was a rabid dog sexually
who sired a global village
and treated rita like dirt
peace
ab
us:
i adore black people
millions of us are warriors/sages/heros/sheros
and millions of us are indeed pathological...so is our global history
why do you see any of that as mutually exclusive?
happy + unhappy = real life
fyi
ab
us:
i just went home for lunch...
turned on the tv to jerry springer
found 2 bf moms with multiple children...30ish
one was bragging about "selling her kids" at tax time...she explained in detail how she allows her pals to illegally claim each child on their irs tax forms...for cash back
and she also bragged about sharing weed etc...all of this on national tv with no disguise etc...
and this too is the norm
they are indeed a new breed
fyi
ab
ab
"why do you see any of that as mutually exclusive?"
I don't see it as race specific and can't figure out why people like you, BLACK PEOPLE, continue to tie dysfunction to race when there are all these examples of black positivity around.
I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you about young blacks as some kind of "new breed" of evil.
The kids I see every day are solidly middle class and bourgeois in manner, values and behavior.
They have no connection to the ghetto whatsoever.
Maybe you ought to move.
us
thanks for your belated honesty!
i get u now
you are an elitist!
i care and sacrifice
while you flee and deny
you need to travel more the ghettos you have fled and deny
as i do daily
i never lived in a ghetto
but i was also taught never to forget they exist...
and i am referring to the entire generation of all races
ie
white frat corp newbies
coddle black bourgeoisie
foster kids
millenials
trailer parks
projects
jack and jill clubs
boys clubs
ALL...
i have made that clear
your selective hypersensitivity is a personal problem
and your elitism, detachment and denial will not save a single black child
fyi
ab
us:
if i spent my days with rich black kids exclusively, i would be exclusively proud too
but the real world is filled with BOTH the progecny of legends and the progeny of the lost
and as fragile as your elite enclaves may have made you, teh hard truth = for babies 10 and under, they are MOSTLY lost due to their toxic turbo breeder parents!!!
ask any public school teacher...anywhere
fyi
ab
A constructive idea for black people to think about.
The way that groups of people succeed in a capitalist system has been plainly illustrated by Jews and Asians, among others. It is simple. You put family, education, and investment -- in that order -- before everything else. If you are an adult, you put all of your effort into the next generation. You help your own.
I recently saw an interesting article that showed that Asians are no better at math, and don't have higher I.Q. scores, than anyone else in their early years. The key to their success? They work harder in school. And so on.
No white person is going to reform black culture. Only black people can say, in effect, "we've had it with this bullshit" and then reject the hip-hop, the bling, the underachievement, the whole nine yards. I'm white and I'm saying it, but it's really not up to me.
On the money side, you've got a class of very highly paid black entertainers and athletes. Black people should be twisting their arms to contribute that money for the greater good, and to set an example for the youth. Mind you, a lot of these people do it already. But some of them don't.
It is unfair? After all, there are sure as fuck a bunch of celebrity white wastrels out there. The answer is that it's not unfair for anyone to put their heads down, see the problems, and work on them. But that's really not up to me, is it?
us:
you sound as callous as john mcwhorter
i will never dismiss and deny children simply because they are not elite
my parents were rich
and they taught us that we have a greater responsibility to the ghetto precisely because we never lived there...because we can help
etc...
http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/johnm.htm
shame on you
ab
ditto grinder!
which is what us cannot see:
family is the foundation
most black families today are not elite
especially for children 10 or less
most are horridly toxic
more than ever before
and that is why our race is doomed unless we fix it as you suggested
it must begin at home
with superior parenting/families
long before teachers even!
peace
ab
us:
those elite kids will be just fine without you
because of their parents
the ghetto kids i serve need us both the most
because of their "parents"
i live with the karma of my choices...just as u...
our race will be saved only by those who make my choice to help the majority/least among us...
fyi,
ab
ps us:
actually
many of the lost kids i know are boys
they have no fathers like your sons
and they need you much more than me
as you are a man...
fyi
ab
I wrote that it was simple. I should have phrased that differenly. The concept is simple. The execution is obviously not.
Only if we give up "chittlins" will we be able to save the Negro.
Another of our ascetic principles.
cc to all the church folks hunting gay duos in dc:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/DC-residents-rank-as-top-cocaine-alcohol-abusers-47265917.html
shame!
ab
us: dc is filled with elite blacks too...
fyi
ab
Very thoughtfull post on overcoming fear .It should be very much helpfull
Thanks,
Karim - Creating Power
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