Look mommy, that nigger is getting in the water. Oh my, and there is even more of them. I bet they are from Philadelphia. What's the matter, they don't have their own public pools? Hurry dear, jump out of the water before you catch something.
Honestly, I don't know if that conversation took place between little Johny and his mom or not, but let me say this; knowing this area the way that I do, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it did.
Now what I do know is that a bunch of day campers made up of mostly black children, were told in no uncertain terms that they could not swim in the Valley Swim Club, pool. Yep, it seems the white parents and swim club members were outraged when they saw all the little Negroes invading their pool space. Poor white folks, No matter how hard they try they just can't get away from those Negroes.
Apparently, according to the President of the club, all those Negroes would change the color of the water in the pool. Did you know that if Negroes are in chlorine long enough that the black will come off? Nothing worse than trying to swim in dark water.
"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.
Of course Mr. Duesler, I understand exactly where you are coming from. Nothing like a bunch of Negroes to change the "atmosphere" of a joint. Trust me, I know all about it, I invented the 12% rule.
"I heard this lady, she was like, 'Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?' She's like, 'I'm scared they might do something to my child,'" said camper Dymire Baylor.
Oh come on Dymire. Are you sure she said black kids and not b-a-d kids? I am sure you all were acting up. You know how you little Negroes can act up sometimes. Especially when you see water. You all saw that that big swimming pool and lost your minds.
Seriously folks, I have been getting e-mails from folks wondering about my hometown and how this can be happening in 2009. Folks, welcome to the real world. Philadelphia, Pistolvania is no different than Philadelphia, Mississippi in terms of racial attitudes. In fact, it might be worse. Oh it's a "city of neighborhoods" alright, and it's a proudly segregated one. But it's not just Philly; pick any city in the Northeast. Anyone. I guarantee you that you will find the same type of prejudices and ignorance among the races.
The Valley Swim Club is a nice Sunday morning jog from my house, and the type of people who make up the membership are the ones who joined to get away from all the Negroes who might pollute the city pools. So this story is not surprising. What's surprising is how surprised everyone seems to be that this actually happened. Obviously they don't read black blogs. And they certainly don't keep up with the racism chasers. If they did, they would realize that we can't keep up. Racism is all over the place, and chasing it is becoming just too damn hard.
Holla at the folks at The Valley Swim Club and let them know that in the age of Obama even little Negroes should be able to swim in peace.
THE VALLEY SWIM CLUB
22 TOMLINSON RD HUNTINGDON VALLEY, PA 19006
(215) 947-0700
270 comments:
1 – 200 of 270 Newer› Newest»Yes, ish ish ish. This is getting hollered at all over, thank the Goddess.
FN, your post actually reminds me (inadvertently of course) of this one, at a blog that I've been complaining about. Google needs to know that this thing is a thinly veiled hate site, and they need to take it down. I really think white nationalists run it. Read this "swimming" entry and other entries somewhat carefully and you'll see what I mean. And then use the Flag button at the top to report it to Google:
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2009/05/104-swimming.html
"Are you sure she said black kids and not b-a-d kids? I am sure you all were acting up. You know how you little Negroes can act up sometimes. Especially when you see water. You all saw that that big swimming pool and lost your minds."
I have to admit, this did cross my mind at first. I guess it's because I didn't want to believe something as blatant as this could have happened. Yet deep down I know better, its more than possible. There seems to be nothing 'PC' about racism anymore, anything goes.
I feel bad for these kids. I drive by many beaches daily with my head strait and my AC pumping. I think nothing of it. The last time I went to the beach was a year ago.
(Ah don like goin to deh beach, deh sun hot, an deh salt wata gon frigg up meh hair an meh skin.)
Field, I think there is something 'legal' that can be done.. right?
Civil Suit! Maybe enough money can be sucked out of these bastards so they will have to close their little hate zone!! I sincerely hope that there are members who quit, but not before they call a meeting to fire the assholes that denied these kids access. C I V I L S U I T !!!!
On a personal note... I know you live up there in the NE Field, but that is one part of Philly I never go to. for anything. Cuz there is nothing up there worth my time.
I just can't believe stuff like this happens in a blue Democrat city like Philadelphia.83% of people in Philly voted for Obama.
Its shocking.
Jody, I don't know, it is, after all, a private club. (At least I think it is) and they gave the camp their money back. I am going to try and talk to the lady that runs the camp tomorrow.
Mr.R, I guarantee you that those people in The Valley Swim Club voted for McCain and not Obama.
".. have to admit, this did cross my mind at first. I guess it's because I didn't want to believe something as blatant as this could have happened. Yet deep down I know better, its more than possible. There seems to be nothing 'PC' about racism anymore, anything goes."
You all have Obama, what else do you Negroes want?
Tater Kate, I will check out that site. Sounds interesting.
La Incognita,
I don't know where you live, but here, even the bad kids would know better than to invade a pool in that neighborhood.
Post Racial America don't you just love it?***Sarcasm*** Things change yet they so stay the same.
It's a private club, they can decide who is allowed to swim.
Thanks for the link to that site, stuff black people don't like. Very funny site, all documented and with hilarious youtube videos. Just watched the one of the brawl between 3,000 Black people in Montgomery and then read the USA Today article from yesterday about the savings rate for Black people...
When did facts become hateful? Can there be hate facts?
When I saw this at Huff Post earlier today I was hoping to find this put on full blast here. Thanks for addressing this and giving us the information needed to let these people know this kind of thing won't stand.
The sad thing is, these kids probably could have given a damn about swimming there if there were other options at the time. I wonder how scarred these kids will be from this experience?
"Apparently, according to the President of the club, all those Negroes would change the color of the water in the pool."
Do black kids pee in pools?
Having liberal leanings in no way constitutes a "post-racial" attitude. I'm from Seattle which is known for its flaming liberalism and I have seen this kind of blatant, modern day (racism/discrimination/enter your buzzword of choice here) everywhere from the E.R. at the hospital where completed my residency to Starbucks.
I think Malcolm X once said the only difference between a Republican and a Democrat was that the republican philosophy was "Let's keep the niggers down.", and the Democrats' was "Lets keep the neegroes down."
Blue vs. Red state, it's all a scam.
"I wonder how scarred these kids will be from this experience?"
KST at the end of the day, that is all that should really matter.
It is a private club that had a contract, agreed to contract in good faith with the day campers. Upon one parting attempting to execute the contract, they were racially discriminated against.... thus violating federal anti-discrimination laws..... I think they may have a case.
The fact they gave the money back is irrelevant. One party was refused the services solely based on racial discrimination. I don't think even private entities can get away with that shit.
@Tater Kate
That site is racist, unfortunately it doesnt appear that Google will remove it!
That is truly a WTF story. It just goes to show that racism, prejudice, bigotry is alive and well in the U.S. of A.
"Racism is all over the place, and chasing it is becoming just too damn hard."
Why? because you keep tripping over it and bruising your knees?
Anon 10:31
It's a private club, they can decide who is allowed to swim.
They decided to take the money.
thanks FN for the contact information of the swim club. they will be hearig from me.
North Korea is out of contol as well. it seems everyone is out of control and need a good beat dow.
Hmmm, I like youur strategy. It might work. But we would have to see what the contract between the camp and the swim club, said.
They could say, for instance, that there was a limit on the amount of children the camp could bring, and the camp brought too many children. You know they will try and find a way to say that it really wasn't about race. The president simply misspoke.:)
Only Negro, I co-sign with you on that one.
@Tater Kate
That site is racist, unfortunately it doesnt appear that Google will remove it!
How do you know that?
Anyway, go Flag it, sez I!
If they get tons of flags, who knows? You can label it a "hate" site with that function too.
It burns me that they set it up to look like something black people run, an then its white nationalism is so veiled like that. *shivers*
Seda said...
"Racism is all over the place, and chasing it is becoming just too damn hard.
"Why? because you keep tripping over it and bruising your knees?"
That was funny, Seda!
Private clubs aren't necessarily immune from state & local (and federal) civil rights laws folks. It's a just a question of where the nexus or opening is for them to nail these fools. And course, do our leaders have the balls to put their money where their mouths are.
In the meantime, hurling a few flaming paper bags of dogshit at the place and intimidating the members wouldn't hurt. After all, folks have become too comfortable with their attitudes.
Hey FN,
I see those neocon rightwing conservatives are lurking again.
What you CONservative don't know about situations like this. It can create racist. You see these kids were all happy and loving all colors before this incident. Now they will not trust whites, and possibly feel some form of fear or anger towards whites after this experierence. I pray they learn to forgive your ignorance like most of us have to do on a daily. It's just apart of being black in America. When you live with ignorance, you have to ask God to bless them and maybe one day they'll see the errors in their ways. God bless you poor souls. There will never be rest for the lost souls.
Way to go putting their phone number out there Field. Now I'll be printing flyers and passing them out in the hood. I'll have all the thirsty lil' Negroes who wish they could get out of the heat calling tomorrow.
I'll have all of em' ask...
"Do y'all still have chicken & watermelon?"
Field,
I let my guard down. I have been telling folk that I think the Obama presidency is not doing what I wanted of it but may be changing some peoples attitudes. I took my grandson to the Imax on Wednesday of last week here in Memphis. It was not crowded. While standing in line a white woman with two children engages me in conversation. When they stared seating, me and my grandson took seats in the center of am empty row. I'll be damm if some other white folk did not come sit in seats flanking us on both sides. When they sta I said to myself, "Hell there go my personal space." LOL
I'm sorry those kids had that experience and am concerned what that will do to their self- image. Hopefully someone will help them process that hate and insensitivity.
I remember experiencing that as an adult during a summer where the UALR hosted CLEO. Some of the instructors where staying in an apartment complex adjacient to the campus housing participants assign to. We were told we could use the pool. I used it every day. I remember the first time I got in and the pool empitied, I thought nothing of it. When it happen the next day, I just fell out laughing and thereafter enjoyed having the pool to myself. After about 10 days, we were told that the pool was off limits. LOL
Stop that swim sterotype - I'm over 50 and my aunt and uncle were life gards at our neighborhood pool.
Help then out field, we need to advance the 42 U.S.C. 1981 juris prudence.
..Did you know that if Negroes are in chlorine long enough that the black will come off? Nothing worse than trying to swim in dark water."
LOL. Field, I love the way you write...funny but biting.
I have said several times on your blog that Philly will never change. It was that way when I was there during the Rizzo days and it is still the same now.
The Whites won't change, and neither will the Blacks. What ever possessed those camp administrators to think they could bring 60 black kids from the inner city to swim at an all-white private pool beyond City Line Ave?
Hell, some professional Blacks even risk being insulted at restaurants around that area. That experience will probably add to their shame of being black, further damaging their image of themselves.
Field, what do you think will happen as the result of this? Let me answer that for you...NOTHING! And once again it will prove that Blacks are weak and powerless in Philly.
If it were Philadelphia, Mississippi I honestly believe that the Blacks and Whites would work it out. But NOT in Phila. PA. BTW, the fact that Obama is President doesn't change anything in the City of Brotherly Love. Or in a lot of other places for that matter.
Some people can be disgustingly inhumane, insensitive, and ignorant.
@KST: "I wonder how scarred these kids will be from this experience?"
We've had many generations of kids scarred by experiences like this one.
Instances like this one, and others like it, should become teaching tools--so many nails and hammers--to help kids build strong, self-respecting, and self-valuing lives, despite the racist crap that they will surely meet as they journey here.
That is not to say that the Valley Swim Club should be given a pass--because it shouldn't be.
And, If there's a legal recourse to redress this wrong, it should be pursued.
And, If there's other pressures that may be brought by the community--by both whites and blacks--it should be brought.
But we need to give our kids the means to withstand racist assaults, and the weapons to fight back.
As a child, I received no such support: I had to learn it all on my own.
And we can see how that lack of support worked out for many blacks! It didn't.
The Whites won't change, and neither will the Blacks. What ever possessed those camp administrators to think they could bring 60 black kids from the inner city to swim at an all-white private pool beyond City Line Ave?
Umm, does the fallacy of multiculturalism?
Even though this is a 'private' club, they could also be acquiring some form of government/federal handout/exemption - especially for any youth program they might have. If they are, their discrimination could block them due to a public/federal violations (I see it all the time). I doubt they are, but It's worth looking into.
What? But I thought we were all post racial now. And in a northern, democratic city at that!
We had an 8 year old kid on our block (I love kids who tell everyone's business) tell us his mom didn't let him swim in our local pool because there were too many black people in it.
He cluelessly told told this to my wife who calmly asked the kid what he thought about that. He replied he thought that was dumb.
We love Philly but wanted to move that day.
It's a private club that advertised swimming privileges to anyone for a fee, & the camp paid the fee. Where those kids supposed to swim & cool off, Schuylkill River?
Do black kids pee in pools?
I ain't black but I pissed in every pool I swam in when I was a kid. It's why I will never swim in a pool that allows children of any race.
Hell, some professional Blacks even risk being insulted at restaurants around that area.
Is this before or after they leave a $10 tip on a $120 check? Talk to anyone who waits tables for a living, and you'll be told that the two least welcome sights in a restaurant are blacks and foreigners, because neither group leaves decent tips.
"We had an 8 year old kid on our block (I love kids who tell everyone's business) tell us his mom didn't let him swim in our local pool because there were too many black people in it."
I am afraid that is a common attitude among many white adults who pass it on to their children. It's generational.
grinder-"...Talk to anyone who waits tables for a living, and you'll be told that the two least welcome sights in a restaurant are blacks and foreigners, because neither group leaves decent tips."
Is that true or some more bullshit Whites think up? Have you EVER had a decent tip from Blacks? With Black customers, were you a waiter deserving of a good tip or did your prejudice of Blacks lead you to be a piss poor waiter?
Hey Field...
I'm no lawyer, and I may be seeing this too simply, but it was only after they saw that the children were Black that they decided they couldn't swim in the pool, right? They sure didn't have any problem with accepting that $1900 for the memberships. That looks like a basis for a lawsuit for me...
Apparently whoever ran the ad for OPEN memberships forgot the small print..."White folks only"...
Oh Lawd, field, you beat me to it. This was gone be my next topic. LOL! Oh, well.
BTW, I believe that they are working on making history repeat itself back to a time when the signs said "no colored allowed" and "whites only". They are testing the waters right now, just call it a trial run.
@Grinders: "Talk to anyone who waits tables for a living, and you'll be told that the two least welcome sights in a restaurant are blacks and foreigners, because neither group leaves decent tips."
Grinder, from where do you get all this crap: I tip never less than 20%.
I was in Raleigh, North Carolina, eating breakfast at a Denny's restaurant several years back, and a young black guy left his white waitress a $150.oo tip.
It was such a buzz in the restaurant that all those that worked there rushed to the door and the windows to get a glimpse of the young man as he was leaving.
No one instance a case makes, but I see blacks leaving large tips all the time.
@brohammas....
Great story!
People dont kid yourself, these crackers are just as racist as they were back in the 50's and 60's and if there is an opportunity to display it, they will. Look at Bill Oreilly and ny rep King couldnt wait to slur MJ. need to start blowing stuff up.
Thanks Field,
NICE UGLY LITTLE RASCAL TROLL ALERT ON THE SIDE BAR!
If anyone takes offense to me thanking Field for putting up the TROLL alert… If the shoe fits, do not let the doorknob hit you on your way out.
No apology forthcoming!
Remember that this is outside of Philly. Anybody that knows Huntingdon Valley knows this isn't surprising.
I think what doubly galls me and others is the "complexion of the pool" response.
The world knows about this now. Valley Swim Club's email and voicemail will be saturated by morning with emails and calls from thousands of miles away. We do not approve.
I couldn't believe this happened in Philly. I expected this in some Southern state because, well, we expect this kind of thing to happen there all the time.
Field, I'm glad you're up on this and you were proven right. I remember back in November you said things were going to get worse before they get better, and they have.
All ya'll Philly folk also know that this pool isn't too far away from where that heifer blamed the two big black scary men for kidnapping her and her daughter, when in reality Heifer was in DisneyWorld gettin' her fun on.
Disgusted? Yes. Surprised? No.
Summamabitches.
grinder says ya'll poor tippers ? don't he know about all the volunteer work that hood folks do too ?
I made a phone call but the voice mail box was full. Will be trying again tomorrow.
You know I was telling a white co worker of mine about this and she acted all shocked. Why is it that white people are the only ones ever shocked at racism. I find that to be hilarious
BD-"Grinder, from where do you get all this crap: I tip never less than 20%."
I eat out all the time and I tip around 25%. The waiters and waitresses love me. It's some of the Whites they can't stand. Sounds like grinder has a biased opinion about Blacks when it comes to tipping. Most Blacks are generally are really good tippers. It's a fairness thing.
Maybe grinder is from the Dakotas or Iowa?
FN: I have started coming to your site and thank you for keeping me up to date on news and opinions. I usually end my post with kneegrowsssssss because I don't have a pic up yet on the net. That being said I hope my HONEST opinions will offend some, open the minds eye of some, rally a united front in the communities of some and just make some say UMM? Now I see Malcolm is as a visual representation of some of us Fieldnegros basic phy. Then I say to the Pool incident common sense dictates two options; #1. The club is accepting Black org. daily trips in principle only with loop holes to cover their obvious racism(a group that holds power over another(socially,finicially etc)and uses race the determining factor)insuring that it will go no farther than paper work which they can readily afford. THEY KNEW WHERE THE REQUEST CAME FROM AND HAD NO INTENTIONS OF HONORING THE CONTRACT, therein LOOP HOLES. #2. Some organizations/people just like to humiliate Blacks just because they can and to let the youngons coming up know don't start feeling yourself, Obama is a figure head, prop, not a decider. So I ascribe to the Malcolm phy. DON'T BEG to get into yt America, take that money raise funds to build our own PRIVATE clubs, schools etc. I don't worship any yt regilions they are crumbs, Kemet MAAT Spirtuality is the way, a way of life that is simple straight forward, a moral respectability of life which most of good will surely flilter though, the phy. of raise a child in the way you want it to go really applies here. Yts teach their children hate, it has been over 400yrs. of this drilled from generation to generation in them. Now has probably become as natural as breathing. The HATE that produced HATE. If we continually beg to eat at their tables, be taught by their teachers in their schools and read their books, we will only be a carbon copy of them, with no intent to EVER being ORGINAL therein lies the 3 fifths of a human being willie lynch dared to creat in a vicious cycle of denial and hate. I don't need them to love us but I do demand the respect and if we have our own sports leagues,entertainment companies, schools w/o a major federal(government grant)they would have to not only respect us but pay to play with us too and therein lies our own economy, sometime you gotta swallow your blood before you swallow your pride. KNEEGROWsssssssssss
" Racism is all over the place, and chasing it is becoming just too damn hard. " This is the very reason I never got around to writing something about the futbol player that was railroaded by the system, or comment about some dumb cop tasing a woman that was distraught about some youngster's death.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, but wait until tommorow. I can't wait to catch my breath. As a frequent winner of swim meets, around age 5, I take this VERY personally...nope, can't let being stressed out keep me from saying something about this.
Devil, devil, devils I see.
Is that true or some more bullshit Whites think up?
No, it's not just some shit whites think up. Lots of black restaurant servers feel the same way about black customers.
And white Europeans and Australians, too. But at least they have an excuse, because in Europe and Australia, the system is different and 5%-10% tipping is the norm.
Grinder, from where do you get all this crap: I tip never less than 20%.
You are the exception. A lot of blacks haven't been educated on the issue.
By the way, I was amused by the suggestion in the article that I linked, which was for restaurants to approach black churches with educational materials about standard tipping etiquette in restaurants.
Holy shit, what an idea. Could you imagine? A restauranteur approaches some black clergy with the message, "You people don't tip well enough. Give us more."
Film at 11.
grinder-"You are the exception. A lot of blacks haven't been educated on the issue."
You have got to be kidding. Basically everybody knows the going rate for tipping. What kind of restaurant did/do you work in?
@Grinder: "You are the exception. A lot of blacks haven't been educated on the issue."
Okay, you got a laugh out of me. I see nothing's gonna make you budge.
Until all blacks are up to speed, why don't you make up for their lack of education and tip servers a whopping 50%.
I'm sure those uneducated blacks will gladly pay you back when they receive their tipping degree, and will thank you for "getting their back."
Besides the disparity of income white to black is still quite high. White males, on the average, should tip more of their real income, than those of other ethnic groups who have consistently made less over the years, despite a closing in the educational gap.
You have got to be kidding. Basically everybody knows the going rate for tipping.
It's not true. Did you even bother to read the column I linked to? Black people aren't the only group notorious for poor tipping. Lesbians and elderly women, and anyone from overseas.
Want to know who the waitstaff fights over? Two groups: Business travelers, and gay male couples. Group #1 is on the expense account and rarely leaves less than 25%, and half the gay males have worked as waiters and they tip like crazy.
Nobody gives a shit that you're black. They worry that you'll be cheap, and will want to order everyone around too. And I'm telling you, it's not just the white servers who feel this way. All of 'em do. Every customer who walks in the door is evaluated in two ways: Will they tip, and will they be a pain in the ass?
~
Negroes do not know how to act!
I am not in Philadelphia, so I can't speak to these children in particular, but I do say in general, North American Negroes do not know how to act.
I go to a local downtown YMCA to lap swim. The only time there has been a problem is when other Negroes enter the pool. These Negroes get in the pool during lap swim, ignore the swimmers in the swim lanes and start bouncing.
That is what I call it, the Negroes can't swim, so they stand in the swimming pool and bounce up and down. The one or two Negroes who think that they can swim, swim perpendicular to the swim lanes with their head's out of the water (which means they really can't swim). Punk-ass Negroes can't swim the length of the pool, so they swim across the pool, colliding with the lap swimmers, swimming correctly in their lanes.
I'm was 3000% with the lifeguards when they asked these Negroes to leave the swimming pool. I am speaking here of adult North American Negroes, so I would suspect that 60 minor North American Negroe youth could be even worse.
Negroe, learn to swim!!
Negroe youth, learn how to act!!
There is a class of Negroe, that I do not want around me.
There is a class of Negroe youth, that I do not want around my children.
I do not blame these white folk, not one punk-damn bit!!
`
grinder-"No, it's not just some shit whites think up."
I read the link you posted about "Canadians" being poor tippers. Thanks for the info. I am very surprised and still find it hard to believe. Sorry I wrongly accused you of making up shit.
By the way, I have never worked in a restaurant. But I have eaten out frequently for my entire life, since I was a kid. I have seen that business from the inside out. Known lots of cooks, servers, maitre 'ds and owners.
Black Diaspora, I agree with your explanation. I think in the case of blacks the explanation is mainly relative poverty. The fine dining culture is much newer to black people than to other groups, so it's understandable that tipping customs aren't as well known.
Of course, it doesn't exactly help that anyone who ever might mention the obvious will get his fuckin' head chopped off because you're so goddamn defensive about every single thing.
NSangoma said... "There is a class of Negroe, that I do not want around me.
"There is a class of Negroe youth, that I do not want around my children."
NSangoma, why don't you just segregate yourself from all these low-class blacks?
What irony: I think that you would have been happier white....
Keep that in mind for your next life. Give China a try!
The humor on this blog is nonstop.
Hey, I really got off on a rant there. Stated it more strongly than I wanted to.
By the way, want to know who are the best tippers of cab drivers? People who have driven one. I drove a cab in college, and I rarely give less than 25%. I once gave a $200 tip to a black woman cab driver who was on her second eight-hour job that night to get money to put her son through college.
If she was bullshitting me, then the $200 was for a hell of an acting job, but I don't think she was acting. The other day, I gave a white driver $40 for a $15 ride after he told me about how things were so bad that he'd only cleared $20 for a ten hour shift on a Saturday night.
Black people with money need to give bigger tips. Sorry, but enough people tell me about this one to lead me to think that stingy-tipping black diners are a reality. Is it everyone? Of course not. But it happens often enough.
grinder-"Every customer who walks in the door is evaluated in two ways: Will they tip, and will they be a pain in the ass?"
What kind of restaurants are these where everyone is dodging certain customers before they enter the room? The ones I go to generally have waiters already assigned to certain tables or sections.
@Grinder: "Of course, it doesn't exactly help that anyone who ever might mention the obvious will get his fuckin' head chopped off because you're so goddamn defensive about every single thing."
That comment was meant for me?! Hell you got me all wrong: I find your remarks pretty damn funny.
But please allow me the privilege, opportunity, and right, to be as "goddamn defensive about every single thing" as you!
And, the only heads I "chop off" are chickens and snakes. All other I leave intact.
"Black people with money need to give bigger tips. Sorry, but enough people tell me about this one to lead me to think that stingy-tipping black diners are a reality. Is it everyone? Of course not. But it happens often enough."
Grinder, I try not to live in a "need to" world.
People should do as they're moved. But would I like to see larger tips handed out? Of course!
But I wouldn't want to make it mandatory, or a matter of law.
People tip or fail to tip for as many reasons as there are people on the planet.
The tips wouldn't be necessary, if restaurant servers were paid more money. But that would mean that the cost of my meal would go up accordingly.
And that's okay.
I kinda like it the way it is now, however, where tips, and their size, are the result of the service received.
If I get crappy service (and at times I do) I get to tip less than my customary 20%, and if the service is exceptional (and at times it is) I get to tip more than my customary 20%.
I like good service, and I'm willing to pay for it...but not all servers like their role, and show you their attitude by being rude and inattentive.
I'm afraid that you'll have a hard time convincing me that blacks tip disproportionately worse than their white counterparts.
People are people: white or black. Those that are inclined to leave a hefty tip, will, and those that are not so inclined, won't.
I don't think it's a racial thing, or a matter of education. Economics is perhaps the greatest determinant here.
Black Diaspora, I deserved that. I think I was my own best self-parody there, at least for how I said it. But I'm sticking with the underlying point about tipping. It's one of those things. The average restaurant server is a tip-seeking missile, and if they tell me they don't like Europeans, lesbians, and blacks, I believe 'em. I know that some places with a high European clientele will simply tack on an automatic 15% service charge like European restaurants do.
Anon 4:37, yeah, I was wondering about that one myself. I figure that within the system the servers do some jockeying. Next time I'm out, I'll have to ask more details. I know that they pursue and avoid some customers, but I'm not quite sure about the mechanics of how they do it. I think sometimes they'll just sort of hide behind something if they see the wrong kind of customer -- a "Canadian," if you will -- approaching the maitre 'd, so when that person looks around to see which server is available ...
But I wouldn't want to make it mandatory, or a matter of law.
Neither would I. Did I suggest that? I don't think I did.
If I get crappy service (and at times I do) I get to tip less than my customary 20%, and if the service is exceptional (and at times it is) I get to tip more than my customary 20%.
We are on the same page there. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've left no tip. Once, I was treated so badly on the way into a restaurant that I walked out before being seated, and as I did so calmly (well, as calmly as I could) informed her that she had just lost a $400 dinner check with a tip to match.
My basic tip is 20%, and for great service it'll be 25%.
I'm afraid that you'll have a hard time convincing me that blacks tip disproportionately worse than their white counterparts.
I didn't believe it the first time I heard it, either. Then I started asking (and, by the way, white servers do NOT want to talk about this one, even to other whites, for fear of seeming racist -- seriously), and was told often that yeah, black customers on average leave bad tips and are often far more demanding and demeaning to servers than white customers are.
If black people everywhere started leaving 20% tips, it wouldn't take long before the servers of the world would be fighting over your business. An inside tip: If you really, really liked your food, buy the cook a beer and put it on your bill. They really love thst.
Grinder said...
"Black Diaspora, I deserved that. I think I was my own best self-parody there, at least for how I said it. But I'm sticking with the underlying point about tipping."
And you should....
And I admire your choice to reassess your comment. You've gained my respect....
And thanks for the tip (You are a good tipper!):
"An inside tip: If you really, really liked your food, buy the cook a beer and put it on your bill. They really love thst."
I'll do that when next the occasion arises.
I love hanging out with the cooks. They are my favorite people in a restaurant. I'm in awe of people who can cook. I can follow a recipe, but I can't cook. There is a huge difference.
where in the sam heck did tipping come into this thread, I'd say grinder is obsessed with tipping fees, first he talked about dinning then he went into cabs, HUH? kneegrow did I miss something. Maybe if Grinder had "tipped off" the kids at the pool of coming storm if would apply, but back on point. Now children are fully tipped off to what's to come in these America's as an adult and will arm and defend themselves with knowledge and everything else by any means necessary. Grinder so what's your point, everyone knows black people on average do not make the same money as average whites, but I will not suggest they reframe from dinning out, how about educating whites to the fact that the $20 the black tips is probably leaving them with a $100 for the rest of the week and the $25 the white is tipping will leave them with a $1000 for the week and an inherited bank account, curtesy of the blacks dead ex slave ancestors.
Anon 5:43, you're right, it's a threadjack. Not intentional, and I'll leave this comment and then go to bed and everyone can talk about swimming pools again.
A server in a restaurant is someone who works for a living, and doesn't care who you are or how much is in your bank account. When I look at prices on a menu, I add 30% for tax and tip. I don't enter a restaurant I can't afford and I don't think anyone else should, either.
I especially don't think anyone should stiff the servers. I also don't think they should treat them with discourtesy. These are people who are working for a living. They are not machines or slaves. I also think servers have an obligation to treat every customer with civility. I don't think servers should ever give anyone an attitude right off the bat.
Also, if it seems like your server is ignoring you, before getting pissed off, always do one thing: Look around the place. I have been in restaurants where they didn't have enough people on duty, either on purpose or because someone(s) called in sick, and I realized everyone was taking forever because they were short handed. In those cases, I left extra big tips not for good service but for the sheer effort and endurance.
But that's just me. See, the quickest path to my heart is through my stomach. I love going out to eat, and I almost always leave a good tip. It's part of the deal. And if you think white people are living off of "inherited bank accounts," you're crazy. We earned our money the old fashioned way: insider trading.
Now you can talk swimming pools again. By the way, the private club ought to get whacked for that little stunt of theirs. HARD.
p.s.: I add 30% for tax and tip because we have a 9.5% sales tax on restaurant meals in Seattle. Makes it easy to leave a 20% tip: Just double the tax and round up to the nearest buck.
My, my, my.
Filled Negro found a group of White folks to justify his "Racism Chasing" activities. The actions of these ignorant White folks at this pool has you fully affirmed now. Right?
I AM SO PROUD OF YOU RIGHT NOW.
Filled Negro - I am from Philly and my reference on where White folks and Black folks live is that of 20 years ago.
http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Huntingdon+Valley,pa&sll=37.439974,-95.712891&sspn=34.436783,79.013672&ie=UTF8&ll=40.133741,-75.125885&spn=0.521815,1.234589&z=10&iwloc=A
Huntingdon Valley PA? Thats outside of Northeast Philly. NE used to be the "White Section" of Philly, right? Seems that they have moved out as "we" have moved into the NE. Now that they had a "pool of their own" here come the Blacks again.
Filled Negro - let me start out by saying "THESE WHITE FOLKS WERE PREJUDICED IN THEIR ACTIONS. THEY KEYED OFF OF NOTHING MORE THAN THE RACE OF THESE KIDS WHO WERE LOOKING TO SWIN, JUST AS THE WHITE KIDS WERE SEEKING TO".
But Filled Negro - if we just left it at this level without telling of the history of Philly, we'd be leaving some important information out to your blogging fans, wouldn't we?
What happened to the pool at Tustin Playground in West Philly? It was cemented over several years about. The BROKE AZZED CITY of Philadelphia could not afford to maintain many of its neighborhood pools so they closed them. After seeing that the closed pools were being filled with broken bottles and graffiti, they were cemented over for liability reasons. An elementary school friend of mine was shot in the back of the head at the Tustin Playground pool as he ran from a gunman who chased him from the basketball courts, but that's another story for another time.
But wait, Filled Negro. Remember RON WHITE? Wasn't he and other insiders busted for taking kick backs upon DEPARTMENT OF RECREATION CONTRACTS? PAY TO PLAY!!!
I remember a Philly Inquirer reporter who appeared on NPR's "Radio Times". He stated that the Black people that he listens to don't understand that this corruption is hurting them. They typically say "Why are the feds now so concerned with corruption now that WE are in power? White folks used to do this same thing but they didn't have a problem with it back then".
Filled Negro - this reported said on the radio that the money paid in kickbacks to a few connected Black people who now drive BWMs and Mercedes and living in big houses could have been used to keep several COMMUNITY CENTERS that had been forced to close due to financial constraints OPENED and serving the kids of these people who are defending the crooks. THIS IS HOW THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS EFFECTED BY CORRUPTION IN PHILLY, he said.
Filled Negro - Why do you choose to focus on the prima facie incident of bigotry by White Folks at hand? "White folks threw 'the Blacks' out of their pool!! They are RACISTS!!"
Why didn't you ask the question "WHERE ARE THE POOLS in the communities from where these young Black kids are from"?
You know as well as I do - AND I JUST VISIT a few times a year - MANY OF THEIR POOLS ARE NOW CEMENTED OVER.
Filled Negro - I thought that these immediate suburbs outside of Philly were turning "blue" indicating that this is where the "Good White folks" now live.
In truth - these White folks who are Democrats, largely moved out of Philly to get away from YOU. Many Black folks cheered as the once conservative suburbs of Philly were becoming "blue". (There was someone on your board who was happy that Virgina was "turning blue" as well. It was a female poster. I don't recall who exactly)
Why don't you provide broader context to all of this Filled Negro?
The essence of my challenge to you and others is that while you are gleeful on election night eve that yet another FAVORABLE PERSON has taken the reigns of a seat within Philadelphia, what have YOU actually won when YOUR KIDS are forced to exit the city limits in order to go swimming now?
Don't just look at why the White folks don't want you swimming in their PRIVATE POOLS, Filled Negro - do an investigation as to WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PUBLIC POOLS (and Schools) in PHILADELPHIA!!!!
This is where the real scandal resides.
And the BIGOTRY is that you and others aren't doggedly pursuing that which is happening WITHIN the City Limits of Philadelphia because you are PLEASED with the IDEOLOGY and PARTY of the people who are otherwise FAILING YOU.
I am somewhat appalled by certain black folks attitudes about why those white folks had just reason. The crap I that read from NSangoma makes me think he never lived or worked among white folks.
I guess he never observed a moment where whites actions have been embarrassing even to Negroes.
I am not speaking of incidents toward black folks.
Grinder, you have worked on my last nerve with the "Negroes Don't Tip" line. I, from humble beginnings, started eating in fine-dining establishments when I was 15, with my own saved money, without my parents' prompting. I am now more than double that age and in that time, I've seen a lot of bad, if not damn near abysmal service from both white and black servers. When I'm placed near the bathroom, or the kitchen, when I have made reservations, when a server is inattentive and dismissive yet fawning over other "more promising," usually white or male customers, when I get someone who treats me with disdain because they *presume* I'll leave without paying (I had a woman ask me once if I could afford to eat at her establishmen. WTF?), or when a server obviously takes more joy looking down on you because "poisson" isn't in your native language -- rather than simply helping with the pronouciation, you're damn right I will reduce, if not withhold my tip.
Over the years, I've either had some white servers with rotten attitudes who expect the worst, or just act out their discomfort waiting on me, or I get some black servers with a kind of entitlement complex that I should give them more when they do the bare minimum. In either case, when I feel compelled, I may tell them why I'm dissatisfied or speak with their managers. My experiences aren't uncommon. I hear from single and married black friends that this happens a lot when they really "dine out." I've had the best experiences eating at the bar, since it seems bartenders tend to be more egalitarian and understand the value of a happy, full and slightly inebriated person willing to tip.
So Grinder, baby, some of us do know which fork to start with,what a dematisse spoon is, and what wine glass takes a red or a white. And contrary to your opinion, many in our so-called "lower class," older, church-going generations do, too -- mostly because some of these folks have either catered or had family members who worked directly in richer white folks homes. Of course, we haven't touched on the black elite, of which you seem completely unaware, who've been "fine dining" for generations. In any case, don't you worry yourself: knowledge does get passed down.
Thread Jack done, with my apologies to Mr. Field. The topic is the ridiculous discrimination at the Philadelphia-area pool. Grinder, back to Stormfront or wherever the hell you came from with your mess. Better yet, save it for some disgruntled servers' message board. And if you are a server, work on your craft instead of finding someone else to blame for receiving a response that matches the way you probably treat the people unfortunate enough to be served by you.
Hey Constructive Feedback :
Are you happy those little black kids got what they deserve ? The problem is this shit happens every day and you know it.What are you going to do about it ? Make more white clubs ?You're a fucking bitch , yea I said it.Solutions mother fucker.You can't see it but white people are calling us the N-word but not saying it.In the words of George Clinton "Shit,gotdamn, get off your ass and jam."Stop popping shit and blaming black people for it. If everything is black peoples fault then put us in the mother fucking oven then bitch. Start with your self.Some things are black peoples fault , but not everything gotdamn thing bitch.
Want to stop violence in the hood ? Get black people jobs. That's it. Why is there poverty in the hood ,racism.BTW, poor whites kill each other for the same reason.Like the Vice President said three words JOBS.
Name one black person you helped other than yourself.If black people are the problem them take yourself to prison and lock your own ass up you Tom!
Dunno how the poolside bigotry figures into the "Negroes don't tip well and don't have good manners", but this is why I love this blog. Everyone has his or her say, and the conversation is likely to go anywhere.
I grew up with a membership in a country club that was a little like this one. Not all-White, but absolutely non-Black. If it's any consolation, everyone in our subdivision was as miserable as anyone living in any Black or mixed-race neighborhood anywhere in North America. Alcoholism, domestic violence, drug use, child abuse, you name it we had it. A veritable cesspool of dysfunction. I don't know why African-Americans would *want* to put their children in this sort of environment, but after spending a few of my formative years there I'd never go back. The "nice" aspect is all smoke and mirrors, no substance. My kids swim in the public pool with everyone else, and it's a good deal more pleasant, despite (or perhaps because of) the "complexion".
Since I am an unwelcomed sight at a restaurant, perhaps I should reduce my tip to 10%. The would be commensurate with the predefined service and attitude I'll receive, right?
I would dare say that many black folks are very cognizant about the tipping STEREOTYPE and go out of their way to tip more than the customary 15% (which is sometimes way too generous for the level of predefined service received).
Here is some advice for persons who do not tip well-- EAT AT HOME.
Grégoire, ditto on the subdivision comment. I live in one and cannot fucking stand it. Wifey picked it when I was deployed to Iraq.
I will further add that a subdivision is one step above an apartment complex, ugh!
loud rude and fucking clueless i think that sums up the hood kids in pools, buses, malls, etc. swearing, screwfacing and trying like hell to be as offensive and belligerent as can be. negroids who pretend this is a white perception are probably mf-ing out loud right along with them and giving a ghetttude to the help while they are at it too
I concur with NSangoma statement of, "There is a class of Negroe, that I do not want around me."
NSangoma is a member of a class (class: ignoramus) of blacks, or people in general, I do not want around me.
Well, I'm going to tell you a little story. Where I live, there is this guy who opened two identical water parks on the north & south ends of town. Nothing extravagant, just a few slides and a nice, big pool. Because of the demographics, the park in the south was frequented mostly by blacks, the one in the north mostly by whites.
The park in the south had to close before it had been open even a year. Drugs were all over the place, gangs began confronting & fighting, and before long the guns came out. One afternoon three people were shot dead in the parking lot. The owner closed the place, razed it to the ground. Now, there's a strip mall where the park used to stand.
The park in the north stayed open for almost three years. When the park in the south closed, some blacks gradually started patronizing the north park. At first, everything was cool. No problems. Then, the gangs started showing up. Cars were broken into, fights were frequent, (I remember seeing on the local news the aftermath of a knife attack that occurred actually IN the pool....you could see the blood in the water. Imagine how THAT traumatized some little kids) Then came the shootings. The whites quit going.
Now, the park is closed & abandoned, and they're getting ready to tear it down. Probably to build another strip mall on top of it.
Take what you will from this story. I only offer it as something to think about.
Let some people tell it, we live in a Post Racial Society since Obama is in Office. Try tellin' THESE kids that.
Why can't I just pass my leisure time with people I enjoy spending time with? Why can't you get your own pool? I'm sure the white man will be paying for it anyway along with your welfare.
it is a damn shame because having beeen exposed to numerous writers from philly i assumed it was one of the more democratic cities in the excited states.
what a joke this country has become.
@brohammas
Yes goodness little kids be telling everybodies business! lol
Anonymous A Person of Interest said...
Well, I'm going to tell you a little story. Where I live, there is this guy who opened two identical water parks on the north & south ends of town. Nothing extravagant, just a few slides and a nice, big pool.
___________________________________
You're a damn lie. Name the city and the pool. It doesn't exist.
Tell this white family that we live in a "post-racial world"...
http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html
Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
Sometimes folks whose skin color is close to your own hue can be just plain embarrassing. You spend part of the holiday weekend at a nice, integrated swim club in West Philly (the 5 y/o, who earlier learned to get in the water at a city pool, even learned to get her head under water this time, very proud of herself about that), then your newspaper smacks you in the face like this. You read that sort of thing and wonder what is the problem with these people. What planet are they from? And you just have to worry whether someone out there would think (even for a moment) that you were as ignorant and hateful as those twerps just because of the way your skin and hair look.
Hey Anonymous A Person of Interest
Explain to me why west Virginia and Kentucky are so fucked up. Both states are only 4% black. What's their excuse? Are they lazy, on the welfare, and want to get high all day?Black people didn't mess those two states up, whites did.
Maybe if the lay off the oxycontin and crank they might make something of themselves.
"kid" said, "You're a damn lie. Name the city and the pool. It doesn't exist."
The city is Jackson, Mississippi. The water park in the north was Rapids on the Reservoir.
Don't remember the name of the park in the south. Like I said, it's been closed over three years.
And, just because you don't like what I said, it doesn't make me a liar. Remember, the truth will set you free. Asshole.
kid you've heard the phrase white trash no doubt and probably use it often, same as ya'll these stereotypes don't just rise outta the damned mist, there are trashy people acting trashy. what's amusing to me lately though is how white trash all seem to wanna act, dress and talk black as if it gives their trash some cachet
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Tell this white family that we live in a "post-racial world"...
http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html
Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.
10:42 AM
________________________________
Maybe they just watched FOX and heard that blacks were the lowest of the low.In Pittsburgh a guy killed three cops because Beck said the President was after his gun and going to put him in a FEMA camp.Those dog whistles work both ways.FOX has been telling Blacks and the President F-you for more than two straight years. The wretched of the earth is fighting back.
The only thing FOX said good about the President is that he's a good speaker. Can't say the same shit about Satan Pagan...oops I mean Sarah Palin.
You ought to be fucking surprised that more blacks aren't retaliating. We been fucking good considering the racist shit you threw and still throw at us.
People are either decent or not. To refuse children is indecent, if they paid their entry to this private swimming pool. I live in Baltimore, and can see how terrified white people are of blacks in general, based on skin color, while black parents are also terrified about their children, but because of violence. Unfortunately, this story highlights once again the problem with class issues in this society, and this class issue is based on white standards. Here in Baltimore we have all kinds of rich blacks, they do not care about poor blacks, happy to be out of hoods and look down on them with disgust.
No one really has any illusions about this country being super racist. The issue is what we do about it, what our own strategies are and not just lament about it non-stop.
Anonymous A Person of Interest said...
"kid" said, "You're a damn lie. Name the city and the pool. It doesn't exist."
The city is Jackson, Mississippi. The water park in the north was Rapids on the Reservoir.
Don't remember the name of the park in the south. Like I said, it's been closed over three years.
And, just because you don't like what I said, it doesn't make me a liar. Remember, the truth will set you free. Asshole.
______________________________
Mississippi hun?Well there's no racism there FOX said so . It's a post racial world.Well we all know that the crime was a result of poverty.I guess no whites in Jackson commit crimes or are arrested. BTW, blacks are more likely to be the victims of crime by other blacks. Whites are more likely to be the victims of crime by whites.Statically your white butt is safer next door to a brother.
Anonymous Nicole said...
People are either decent or not. To refuse children is indecent, if they paid their entry to this private swimming pool. I live in Baltimore, and can see how terrified white people are of blacks in general, based on skin color, while black parents are also terrified about their children_____________________
First you watch too much of "The Wire"Baltimore is not that much off the hook.Tupac, Goldie(The Mack),Superfly were all American made.Why are you trying to excuse classism and racism?
If you don't address the problem there's going to be more Tupac's and Superfly's instead of Supermen.
Racism made them.
to 'kid':
Want to justify every anti-black organization, sentiment, action, and act of violence that has ever happened? Keep right on with your imbecilic, hateful, illiterate racist talk (of course, you're probably middle-class scum typing your garbage on a computer Mommy and Daddy paid for, LOL). You would be a disgrace to any race, any nationality, any color--trust me. I'm black and you are one of the major reasons there is still such hatred between people of differing skin tone. to 'sojourner': You been black this long and still can't admit there's BLACK TRASH? What is wrong with you? You want to pretend that there are no ghettoes, drug addicts, violent sociopaths, and , gasp, even bad tippers, who have non-white skin? Think those conditions are all confined to 'anyone but us' and those who are 'not our kind'? god, you're every bit as 'racist' as any KKK member. And FYI, if you're going to post paragraphs of pretentious, asinine, self-congratulatory drivel about how eddicated you and all us other blacks are, try learning to spell DEMITASSE first!
If you are surprised that this story happened in Philly, you don't know Philly very well. Perhaps institutional racism is on the wane (perhaps) but personal racism is alive and well. I am white, live in East Mt. Airy, on a mixed demographic block, mostly black, some white. We have the best block and best neighbors I have ever had anywhere. If you are a decent person, you will make fast friends. No one cares what color you are, how much money you have, where you come from or what politics you believe in. I was losing faith in this city until I moved to this neighborhood last year. I also have cousins who live in the Northeast and it is embarrassing to be around them and hear the shit that comes out of their mouths. Some white people I know in Philly try to tell me that, if I grew up where they grew up, I would think that way too. Bullshit. My Mom and Dad grew up in some of the roughest, mostly black parts of this city and I have never heard either one of them ever, ever utter a disparaging remark about black people or any one of a different race. You want to be a racist? Fine, but own it. Don't make excuses about where you came from or that you got stiffed on a tip once. I waited tables for a decade, there is no demographic apt to tip better than any other. The only solid rule is that people who work in the business, of any race, tip the best.
And to let children be subjected to such racism is just the worst.
CF-"Why didn't you ask the question "WHERE ARE THE POOLS in the communities from where these young Black kids are from"?
You know as well as I do - AND I JUST VISIT a few times a year - MANY OF THEIR POOLS ARE NOW CEMENTED OVER."
You are right. Even when I was in Philly 30 years ago, Rizzo was cementing pools in the black community. As I have said before. Nothing is going to change in Philly. The Whites will remain the same and the Blacks will remain the same. Never shall the two come together. Hence, Blacks should have their own swimming pools instead of empty lots. But we know that isn't going to happen no matter who is in power because Dems nor Repubs are going to change a damn thing.
It still doesn't make it right what happened to those kids. But I don't understand why they went there in the first place. Anyone from Philly would know better.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
to 'kid':
Want to justify every anti-black organization, sentiment, action, and act of violence that has ever happened? Keep right on with your imbecilic, hateful, illiterate racist talk (of course, you're probably middle-class scum typing your garbage on a computer Mommy and Daddy paid for, LOL). You would be a disgrace to any race, any nationality, any color--trust me. I'm black and you are one of the major reasons there is still such hatred between people of differing skin tone.
_________________________
You're white. Why do you have to mention your race ? That's what bigots do before they start being racist, they make a excuse.
BTW people like you Clarence Tom Ass, Ward Connerly,Jesse Lee Peterson are the reason for the way blacks are.If you're black then you're a traitor. Join the Klan and get it over with.
11:31 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It still doesn't make it right what happened to those kids. But I don't understand why they went there in the first place. Anyone from Philly would know better.
11:38 AM
__________________________
I thought this was America ? You're right blacks should know their place.If they watch FOX they should know that they should be on Massa Limbaugh's plantation with Overseer Jesse Lee Peterson beating them to death.
As someone who grew up in West Baltimore, just off North Avenue, I can say that the difference between "The Wire" and some pockets of the city is razor thin.
Despite this fact, I grew up to encounter plenty of good people in those bad pockets of humanity. But as usual, they (I), get lumped in with the rest of the bad apples.
Why is it that we, blacks, are the ONLY persons judge by the negativity of the group instead of the positivity or individual merits?
Another question: Why is it that some black folks insist on forcing themselves on white folks?
Is swimming at a private pool where we are not wanted, really worth the effort? What is there to gain from this?
The folks at the Valley Swim Club have made it crystal clear-- they do not want us there. More the fuck on! I swear some of us are obtuse when it comes to issues like this.
What part do we not understand? It is a private pool, we are not wanted there.
Stop being a glutton for punishment.
Hathor-"I am somewhat appalled by certain black folks attitudes about why those white folks had just reason. The crap I that read from NSangoma makes me think he never lived or worked among white folks"
Oh, come on Hathor. It's BECAUSE NSangoma has worked among white folks and lived among black folks that he said what he said. You see, there are a lot of black folks like NSangoma that feel Blacks are wrong and are nothing but trouble.
There are quite a few self-hating folks in our race. It comes with the territory. Read some of the self-hating comments about MJ. What about the hating black male bashers? You know who they are on this blog....
There are NSangomas all over the place who are not shy in letting Blacks know how wrong they are. Hell, Blacks can't even tip right at a restaurant. And don't blame grinder for it. Read the article...it was written by a Black!
Thanks to BD's suggestion, I am seriously considering coming back White in my next lifetime. I mean, who needs this shit?
Barack Hussein Obama is President of the United States but his daughters can''t swim at The Valley Swim Club . Post racial my ass.
Anonymous 12:09 PM.
Why don't you join the NAAWP then and stop blogging here?
They do have grounds for a discrimination complaint. If the owners of the club allow outside people to come in for a fee, that means they are a public conveyance, not strictly a private club, and they cannot discriminate. Legally, if they allow the public to rent the pool the way this group did, they cannot discriminate, the same way a restaurant or hotel cannot discriminate. Privage clubs and such can discriminate in membership, as vile as that is, as long as they don't take federal money or if said discrimination can impact business (for example, business people often transact business on the golf course; if they don't allow women or blacks to play, they are in effect allowing a barrier to fair treatment in business).
As far as racism and the north goes, it has always been there, if different then it was in the south. The difference was the south was open about its racism, you had Jim Crowe laws that specified the divide between white and black. In the North, there were few laws on the books, but it was de facto none the less, the north is still very racially segregatad. Go to the burbs of NYC, and you see very few mixed race communities relatively, where minorities live tend to be areas with high concentrations of minority groups with few whites...and the other areas are almost lilly white, with the exception of maybe Asians of various sorts, blacks and hispanics are limited.
Even in NYC, there are generally dividing lines that only get broached when areas gentrify (or conversely, when they 'go down' so to speak). Either areas become gentrified, at which time the minority population gets forced out for the most part (unless there is public housing there) or in other areas, as the area declines economically, more and more poor minority group members move in.
Some of the segregation is of course economic, and is a sign of the relative problems of minority groups in the city, but it is also social as well. Blacks and Hispanics able to live in better areas that are predominantly white tell me they don't feel comfortable or made to feel comfortable, and this is in the city.
In the burbs, a lot of the segregation is enforced via zoning codes and the like, where limiting the amount of housing and specifically limiting more moderate prices, higher density housing (like townhomes) excludes minority group members, as does the lack of public transit for example. And when they do open up more affordable housing, generally they find ways to steer it towards people already living in the area, rather then opening it up. People in the burbs will vote for Obama, will talk earnestly about race relations and being colorblind, but when it comes to their lives they still maintain old stereotypes and ideas as bad as the oldest Jim crowe era racist you can still find.
Pam Spaulding posted some of juicier comments on Pam's House blend.
Some of the segregation is of course economic, and is a sign of the relative problems of minority groups in the city, but it is also social as well. Blacks and Hispanics able to live in better areas that are predominantly white tell me they don't feel comfortable or made to feel comfortable, and this is in the city.
Your comment leads to the following question: why aren't there more "above poverty" black communities?
Having posed that question. De jure segregation had few positive consequences. We were forced to live among each other.
I wonder about the state of black America during segregation and after segreation (integration).
As the Chinese say, be careful what you wish for.
Well I say whatever to those White folks. If we build our own (pool) then it really won't matter if they don't want our kids in their pool.
"Is swimming at a private pool where we are not wanted, really worth the effort? What is there to gain from this?"-Rudy
Good point!
As I've said elsewhere, them camp directors should have done some homework, especially with "private clubs"...
Hey Field,
How about some comments on the conomy and the playas/criminals who ruined it?
You know, if I were living in Philly, I'd want to set up a nice little picket line right outside the club. Because I'd like to shame the heck out of the people who are STILL GOING to the club after this mess. And I'm not naive enough to think that most members won't just go right back like nothing had happened. Shame on them.
Short of that, I'm hoping for some ACLU involvement and a big-ass lawsuit.
Re: "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club."
-- John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club, in a statement.
Dear Mr. Duesler:
Your statement cannot go unremarked by anyone with a conscience who has read it. Your words amount to an articulation of much that is ugly about our society today – and fifty, one hundred, and one thousand years ago.
I expect we will all learn more about you in the days to come as this story follows its inevitable media arc. I confess that I would take some comfort about the origins of your perspective if it turned out you are uneducated and from a hardscrabble background. At least a lack of education and opportunity would offer some frame of ignorance, denied opportunities, class resentment and thwarted dreams through which to view your terrible words, to justify this pathetic attempt to preserve your club as a refuge from those you perceive to be your competition for society’s spoils.
But alas, I suspect that we will soon come to find out that you were raised in relative prosperity, have had educational and material opportunities above and beyond the norm (particularly in comparison to reasonable expectations of the same for the group of kids you banned from your club), and that in fact your public statement on this matter is the product of blatant prejudice, willful ignorance and the rejection of basic principles of civil decency, an audacious act of verbal self-immolation in defense of the indefensible. As part of a society that offers so much by default to well-off whites, your attempt to justify the simultaneous abrogation of your contractual obligations to the summer camp and your societal obligations to conduct yourself civilly and fairly as a member of a larger community bring shame on yourself, your club and its members.
I encourage you, sir, to strive to learn from this mistake, and to seek some public means to make amends. The city, these children and even you need to know that things can get better with a little effort.
Carl-Peter Braestrup
San Francisco, California
Speaking of hatred, it goes both ways
thank you fn!!!
DITTO!!!
you have reminded the mindless masses that neither the blackish obama or the white mj have EVER made racism a relic in the usa...
racism and white supremacy are rabidly raging on in amerikkka...
grinder
i am black and a lesbian and a HUGE tipper!...i enjoy the supreme service that garners at my favorite haunts...
many poor people are bad tippers in all races...ditto for rude cheap rich people in all races...
nicholas cage is a rich wm notorious for being a bad tipper
wake up
"Mr.R, I guarantee you that those people in The Valley Swim Club voted for McCain and not Obama."
Wrong again, the head honcho, was a big BO supporter, just google it..but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
That swimming pool is not some "private club." They are offering public accommodations. I am not a lawyer, but on its face it appears that the place would be covered by the civil rights laws on the books. Not only that, but as a prior commenter noted, these people already paid $1,900 to join. Excluding them wasn't just outrageous, I can't see any way that it would be legal.
If the managers of the facility were worried that the black kids would misbehave, then the thing to do would be to inform the day camp of the rules for swimmers, enlist the cooperation of the day camp's adult supervisors, and then enforce those rules equally on everyone there, black or white.
These were young kids, for chrissakes. When I was a kid, I used a public swimming pool where there were lots of black kids. There was no problem inside the pool. I was, on the other hand, mugged outside of the pool by two black kids. That was the end of my visits there, because I was afraid to return.
sojurner, I wanted to say a few things about your posting. I don't think there is ever an excuse for a server to be rude or condescending to a diner. It has happened to me a couple of times, although not too often because I think I tend to give off a "really happy to be here" vibe when I enter a place. But the couple times it has happened I didn't tip ANYTHING, which for me is a very big deal because I'm generally convinced that the eighth circle of hell is reserved by people who leave bad tips.
There is also the other way around. That happens too, where diners treat servers badly. I've seen it happen. And it was white diners treating white servers badly. Some people are just jerks. And some people are having a bad day. This happened with me one time. I was rude to the waitress when I sat down, and she replied through clenched teeth. I realized what I had done, apologized to her, and left her 30%. I had walked in the place with a cloud over my head and taken it out on her. People are not machines; we screw up, and it happens to everyone.
I don't think black people are inferior, stupid, or rude. But I do think black diners, on average, are skimpier tippers than white diners, and tend to be more demanding of servers. I believe this because I've been told it by a number of servers whose opinions I respected. There are plenty of black people who don't fit the stereotype, and there are plenty of white diners who are total assholes.
It's a little like Field's hilarious item about black people in movie theaters. Does every black theatergoer talk on a cellphone throughout the movie? Hell no. Is it more common? Apparently so. I don't go to a lot of movies. I have a home theater and watch 'em at home. But I'm on the side of the one guy who shot the person who was talking in the theater, 'cause I hate noise with a true passion.
People ought to try to get along, and a big part of it is realizing that no one's perfect, and another part of it is being able to tell each other what we really think without necessarily being typecast for doing it.
ns:
who said these kids were misbehaving? warned? sanctioned? instructed? alerted?...
how will they ever become great swimmers if racists never allow them to practice?
africans have a historical fear of water because of the slave trade and poisonous spiny fish native to west african waters...
my parents never learned to swim... so they enrolled us in swim classes as infants...my 2 bros and i adore water and are expert swimmers...we were blessed
all kids will excel at swimming and behaving if given a chance...
i hate turbo bred trash too...but i am not going to instantly abuse any kids just because their parents may never have exposed or trained them...
p.s.: I am not really on the side of the person who shot the guy in the theater. That was overstatement for effect. I hate noise. People should shut the hell up during the movie. The worst rudeness I see is on airplanes, and since those crowds are very heavily white, we're talking white rudeness. Oh boy, I shouldn't get started on that one.
I'd be more worried about crocodiles & hippos than I would spiny fish.
"The park in the south had to close before it had been open even a year. Drugs were all over the place, gangs began confronting & fighting, and before long the guns came out. One afternoon three people were shot dead in the parking lot. The owner closed the place, razed it to the ground. Now, there's a strip mall where the park used to stand"
This story has a familiar ring to the Black experience across America in urban cities. It's about the evil destruction of anything good.
Constructive Feedback's story about swimming pools covered over with cement in the black community of Philly is a common story. For Blacks, there is no end to this destruction and murderous crap.
these kids were ejected for being black...not for being bad...bad kids are in all races and classes and ALL public spaces
i am shocked by how many herein act as if only black kids are ever rude in public...the loudest rudest kids i have ever seen are rich kids in their own pools/enclaves
___
kidding
the only thing i find more depressing than your vulgar vocab in your mindless rants is that you actually believe FOX news is the primary satanic force in the universe...
that has convinced me that you do not watch fox news...sean h is one nazi among a huge staff of increasingly rare actual journalists...shepard smith is gay and liberal...geraldo rivera and greta van s are not nazis!...
fox news often does the very best coverage of racist cops...like those who choked the bm EMT driver...
try watching fox news sometime...it is no more racist than any other news org...but they are the ONLY news org telling ANY truths about obama!!!
you describe fox news as some cable access KKK show...they would never be number one and soaring if that was the case...
WHY can't our people build our own POOL'S? so we won't have to venture into place's where we are not wanted! why do we just have to be around WHITE FOLK'S? I am so sick of this mess!! when will we learn? why do we need to buy home's in WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD'S?
So now once again the WHITE FOLK'S have hurt our feeling's! well GOOD! we need to stop claiming to be AFRICAN AMERICAN'S but, yet we will send our children to WHITE PRIVATE SCHOOL'S in a heartbeat! and we all know this is true, some of our people pretend to be so UPSET behind this incident! well guess what people this may be 2009 but, RACISM has never stopped THRIVING!!!
Now let's be be truthful here, some of our people can bring shame to our race! how many time's have I found myself in a really bad BLACK neighborhood and couldn't wait to get out!! and if I find myself in a WHITE neighborhood, I think about encountering a group of RACIST that will do GOD know WHAT!!!
I live in CALIFORNIA and trust me some WHITE FOLK'S, have moved so far up in the mountain's until they have BEAR'S in their BACK YARD'S, so what doe's that tell us? well it tell's us that some WHITE FOLK'S are trying their best to get away from US! so here we go again SHOCKED, that our little BLACK CHILDREN will be damaged for life, because WHITE FOLK'S didn't want to share their STUFF!! NO, we should make sure we build up our community the way some WHITE FOLK'S have, so we will not have to DRAG our children around seeking INCLUSION!!!
Kid,
You need to be on medication.
Grinder, that was an awful thing for those kids to do... but the family could have done something to provoke them. I'm just saying.
Don't get mad, I'm just doing that you do best.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ.
I've never seen a thread twist and wind this much.
1) The tipping thing. I actually am a waiter, amongst other things, unlike the...person...who alleged that blacks overall are bad tippers. Well, let me tell you a story about a table of three white guys who, after their meal, paid me each exactly twenty-one cents tip on their individual bills. Furthermore, I delivered pizza to a white woman yesterday and got absolutely no tip. In both of these cases neither groups' food was late or their experience made otherwise unsatisfactory. So you say blacks are bad tippers? From my experience they tip just about the same as any other race. So, before you start quoting statistics, think about this: why aren't you upset at the over-privileged (A-merry-can) whites who are shitty tippers? Get your head out of your ass.
2) The pool situation is appalling and downright disgraceful. The "club" had no right to do that to paying visitors, black or white, but especially to use their race as a point with which to refuse them access. Their "composition" was an issue, eh? I suggest that Philadelphia, City of Brotherly Love as it is, gets everyone together for a chat. When I lived there (so long ago) things were just about the same and it's as inexcusable now as it was then.
I'm just glad that more of you are seeing Ginder for the 'friendly fire' racist infiltrator that he really is.
Grinder, that was an awful thing for those kids to do... but the family could have done something to provoke them. I'm just saying.
Gee, maybe Rodney King provoked those poor police officers. In fact, he DID provoke them. But it didn't make it right for them to beat him like they did. Apparently, La Idiot, any act of violence is okay as long as black people commit it.
givehimamask, yeah, of course there are stingy white diners. Apparently you haven't read anything I've written. I think bad tippers go to hell regardless of whether they're black or white. But there's a reason why so many servers of both races are often reluctant to wait on black customers; the reason is that, in their experience, they're more likely to be treated badly and paid less.
Found your commentary through a New York Times link.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/morning-skim-the-color-of-pool-water/
I'm only surprised at how open and honest they seem to be about their racism. Usually it's kept under wraps so I kind of appreciate them. Don't like'em at all but I know where they swim........I mean stand.
In fact, La Idiot, maybe the black guy who was murdered by the Oakland transit cop had it coming, too. Yup, provocation.
Anon2:28pm "...so here we go again SHOCKED, that our little BLACK CHILDREN will be damaged for life, because WHITE FOLK'S didn't want to share their STUFF!!"
This has been the plight of the Black race since slavery...to be accepted and thought of as equal by Whites. We have been at it ever since! We are even willing to bleach our skin, straighten our hair, change our features, and move away from other Blacks in order to get White approval. If you look at what we do, much of our life is spent seeking white approval and being angry when we don't get it. It's pretty pathetic.
Camp directors from Philly--who should have known better--took 60 black kids to an all-white private pool proves that Blacks are still begging and hoping racist Whites will someday accept them. It is so very poignantly sad.
Do you know that puts our psychological and emotional well-being in the hands of racists who don't give a damn about us? That tells you right there how sick we are. Black behavior often demonstrates that Blacks actually DO believe deep down in themselves that Whites are superior.
It's time to stop blaming racist Whites for all of our ills. If Blacks are dumb enough to show up at a racist facility expecting to have a good time, then they have a deep seated need for white acceptance instead of self acceptance. Furthermore, they are dumber than the rednecks running the place.
Hey Field -- Nice link from the New York Times website!
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/morning-skim-the-color-of-pool-water/?8ty&emc=ty
`
alicia banks said...
africans have a historical fear of water because of the slave trade and poisonous spiny fish native to west african waters...
Negroe, document this madness, please.
`
LaIncog-"I'm just glad that more of you are seeing Ginder for the 'friendly fire' racist infiltrator that he really is."
You aren't that 'friendly' either.
Grinder, you always have a problem taking it back like a man.. when it counts. If you're not pretending to be in denial, you pacify or try to deflect the thread when the topic is about white racism. You're like a transparent clock. LOL.
I have a confession. For some time now, whenever I read your comments I always picture you as that 'troll' on fields sidebar. But I don’t think of you as a troll, I see you more as a hopeless Trojan Horse amongst us.
Anony 3:36
I didn't say you could come out of your mother's basement/backporch/ghetto hallway(which ever applies). Don't try stepping to me unless you're finished with your assignment.
"I've never seen a thread twist and wind this much."
Isn't it great? I once left a glowing comment to Field about the unpredictable wonders of his blog. It's beautiful and I am glad he allows everyone to come and share(except ab--she just doesn't have the intelligence and worldly sophistication and education)..but I digress. Anyway, I really laid it out beautifully for Field.
And do you know, I didn't get a tip for that? Not one penny! I think grinder might be on to something about that tipping thing. But I still love the guy.
LaInc-"I didn't say you could come out of your mother's basement/backporch/ghetto hallway(which ever applies). Don't try stepping to me unless you're finished with your assignment."
i love you. Can I come out of the ghetto hallway now? I've finished my assignment...the guns have been cleaned and your framed picture is at end of the hallway.
@Anon 2:58 am
You know I was telling a white co worker of mine about this and she acted all shocked. Why is it that white people are the only ones ever shocked at racism. I find that to be hilarious
Here are a couple of reasons:
1. Ignorance born of white privilege - racism can be ignored if it doesn't cause you grief personally.
2. No white "hive mind" - white people don't know how all white people think, and some of us are trying to combat racism. Once an anti-racist mindset is adopted, it's easy to forget that the rest of white America doesn't necessarily share your opinion (see #1 above).
assnon
it is so orgasmic to envy me...huh?
thanks for sharing
and for the perpetual backhanded compliments you spray my way herein...
care for more carnal pleasures via me?
see my new open letter to obama:
OUTLOOK
http://aliciabanks.blogspot.com
Grinder, you always have a problem taking it back like a man.. when it counts. If you're not pretending to be in denial, you pacify or try to deflect the thread when the topic is about white racism. You're like a transparent clock. LOL.
Speaking of clockwork, La Idiot, I can always count on you to pull out the "racist" card no matter what, at every turn. Among other things, it's boring.
I really don't understand what the FUCK tipping has to do with innocent children merely going to a pool to swim being treated like they are inhuman. Is this thread jack supposed to be an indicment that no matter what Blacks do we are supposed to grin and bear it and say nothing becuase we have hypocritical shitters in our race and since we are obviously a monolith we have to suffer these stinging indiginties due to every shitty person in our race? is this merely to illustrate Blacks as usual being race whores and making a mountain out of molehill when we are statistically such shitty tippers?
The worse part is how the white kids immediately jumped out of the pool as if scalded or contaminated by that horrible sickly blackness because the black kids wanted to jump in. The look of hurt disbelief on those black kids faces
Maybe those folks at the club had a reason to act the way they did.
How did they know these black "thugs" opps kids wasn't going to attack the white children like those those black thugs attacked that white family in Ohio??
http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html
Most interracial crimes are blacks commiting crimes against whites.The club was in the right stopping those white kids from being attacked.
Look at Obama checking dat ass out
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//090709/ids_photos_wl/r3356552547.jpg/
Very presidential indeed.
I found out about this at MetaFilter ( http://www.metafilter.com/83132/Not-So-Much-Brotherly-Love )and thought everyone here might like to see the comments there. Here are a few:
"As a Philly resident, I like to focus more on Girard College (which was all-white until the 60s, and all-male until the 80s) stepping up and countering this absurd douchebaggery, rather than the absurd douchebaggery itself."
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:31 PM on July 9
"The Valley Swim Club is now going to be an extremely unpleasant place to be, until it shuts down.
"On the other hand, I can't imagine it ever was a pleasant place to be."
posted by gurple at 12:32 PM on July 9
"The swim club has been closed due to concerns of protests -- specifically being coordinated on Facebook and Craigslist"
posted by ericb at 12:34 PM on July 9
"The good news is that with the help of some skillful attorneys, Creative Steps Day Camp could find itself the owner of a shiny new swim club."
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:44 PM on July 9
"Wasn't there a flap during the election where someone had the temerity to insinuate that there was still racism in Pennsylvania?"
posted by klangklangston at 12:46 PM on July 9
"'What are all these black kids doing here? They might do something to my child,'
"Like shatter your kid's carefully spoon-fed illusions that you can determine danger levels of people by skin tone?"
posted by yeloson at 12:52 PM on July 9
"...This HuffPost article on it includes a link to a Michael Smerconish interview (local talk show host, right-of-center but generally sane) with a club member who described the kids as 'very well-behaved.'"
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:02 PM on July 9
"'Black people can't swim' is one of those weird things I heard first, and most, from people who are black, although it was usually phrased like 'black people _don't_ swim.' The first time I heard it, I chalked it up to someone's personal eccentricities. After about the third time I heard it I said, 'I will take off my shoes and prove that I do not have webbed toes.'
"After a while, I had unlikely, casual paranoid suspicions that I was the mutant white guy who was born without the Caucasian secret gills and nictitating third eyelid and was never clued in because it'd make me feel bad..."
posted by adipocere at 1:16 PM on July 9
"...I hope those 60 kids end up smarter than me. Maybe one of them can run for president and wipe the floor with jackals like these."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:20 PM on July 9
I'd like to know the age range of the "kids" from the Creative Steps Day Camp, and the "kids" that were already in the pool.
These days, I tend to take the word "kid" with a grain of salt. Some people call an eighteen year old a "kid".
Can't seem to find that info anywhere, though.
Mr. R,
She doesn't have an ass. You don't jump from filet mignon, to sniffing a hamburger. I think he's trying to figure out which one is worse, her inapt shoes or the ugly frock she's wearing. She looks uncombed and inappropriate to be standing so close to a President. You can see it on his face.
What I'm looking at is the look on the face of Sarkozy, the French President (or Prime Minister, or whatever those frogs call their leader).
That grin on his face tells me he knows exactly what Obama is checking out.
Remember...his momma was white.
I really agree that the worst thing is the damage, pain, hurt, that the children and their parents must be feeling, to me, nothing could hurt more than seeing a child hurt and rejected, even if they got rejected by a bunch of blowhard assholes. maybe somebody could hire a counselor for each and every child and send that bill to the "club". I hope somebody sues them.
We have a public pool where I live, I do know that some people pay a lot of money to swim at a private club, I kinda like it that way, it keeps the assholes out, and there is more room.(snark)
Grinder, how you came up with the crap about tipping is beyond me, also, I did a lot of waitressing in high school and college, and you know, I don't ever remember even thinking about who I was waiting on. I like people, I always got good tips,it never even occurred to me to think about who was walking in the door.
Is this thread jack supposed to be an indicment that no matter what Blacks do we are supposed to grin and bear it and say nothing becuase we have hypocritical shitters in our race and since we are obviously a monolith we have to suffer these stinging indiginties due to every shitty person in our race? is this merely to illustrate Blacks as usual being race whores and making a mountain out of molehill when we are statistically such shitty tippers?
As the threadjacker, I plead guilty. I'd note that I made my original comment in response to someone mentioning that black people get disrespected in restaurants in suburban Philadelphia, but it was still a threadjack. I didn't intend it to stop conversation about the main topic, and I'd point out that threads here get jacked all the time.
And no, I don't think that bad tipping means black people ought to sit down, shut up, and go away with their complaints. I might have jacked the thread, but I didn't jack it that way.
Anyone who knows this area of suburban Philly should not be surprised at this. Remember this is not far from Abington Hospital where just a few years ago a white couple would not allow black or Hispanic nurses to "touch" their white baby. The City of Brotherly Love and its surrounding suburbs are some of the most hateful areas in the US. You could look it up.
Do black kids pee in pools?<<
Considering that we all have bladders, the same can be asked of white kids.
ab-"see my new open letter to obama:"
Stop picking on Obama! Why must you do that! Are purposely doing that to get my attention? What do you want? A date with me?
I will be in Chicago next week. I'll buy you breakfast. They have a special at my favorite restaurant for $3.95. But think I am going to splurge on you all the time. Ok?
Considering that we all have bladders, the same can be asked of white kids.
You might have missed my comment above where I wrote that I pissed in every pool I ever swam in when I was a kid, and for that reason I will not swim in any pool that allows kids of any race. I know what kids do in swimming pools.
On the tipping issue, there is a good article on it. And there is a study by Cornell University, whose school of hotel management is the leader in the United States. It is a very comprehensive study, footnoted with many references.
Here is a link to a summary of the study. From there, you can obtain the whole study by registering on their site. Registration is free. It makes for interesting reading, and provides ammunition for everyone concerned.
The Seattle Times article that I had linked on the tipping issue cited the Cornell University study, which was written by a professor who apparently is a noted authority on tipping behavior in general. Who knew that there was a Professor of Tipping, anyway?!
I see John Duesler is a big Obama supporter.“O-Positive Program” LOL
La♥Incognita,
Obama had that dayummmm girl,i wanna hit dat look.
Dark Moon-"I really don't understand what the FUCK tipping has to do with innocent children merely going to a pool to swim being treated like they are inhuman."
I know it's frustrating. But look at it this way. You get to multi-task many white thoughts and reasons why Blacks have no rights.
It helps to keep a scattered mind loose, undisciplined and pissed off. It makes for interesting reading for discerning minds. For others, they never knew what the post was in the first place. They just jump on for the ride. Either way, you get what you came for.
Besides, a lot of this twisting and turning is the reason many come to FN blog. You never know what the hell is going to happen. Two things I must have everyday: Coffee and FN blog. LOL>
Ummmm..... what about all of the black people who were gushing all over the Obamas saying, "now white people will begin to see black children differently since Malia and Sasha are in the White House!
...and what about this one, "now white people will begin to see black women differently since Michelle is in the White House!"
Ahhh....and of course... "now racism is gone since a biracial man was elected President!"
Well... sorry that those delusional black folks who were writing all of those fanciful posts on November 5th and after the inauguration are now WIDE AWAKE from their Kumbaya-induced coma and have come back to reality in Amerikkka!
White racists hate blacks just as much today as they did before Obama stepped into the ring....and anyone who wants to think otherwise needs his/her Fantasy Island admission pass revoked...immediately!
[quote]When I saw this at Huff Post earlier today I was hoping to find this put on full blast here. Thanks for addressing this and giving us the information needed to let these people know this kind of thing won't stand[/quote
KST:
You need to stay away from Huff Post. It is really indoctrinating you in a manner that is not in line with reality!!
You wonder "how these kids will be impacted over this incident".
KST - I live in metro Atlanta and watch the news as some BLACK PERSON IS SHOT EVERY DAMNED DAY.
I then ask myself "WHERE THE HELL IS THE OUTRAGE IN OUR COMMUNITY?".
Low and behold I FOUND WHERE THE OUTRAGE IS!!!!
It only took some WHITE FOLKS to bring it all out of us!!!
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/07/environmental-thugism-walking-tour-part.html
Mr R,
I see what you mean. That woman has a great butt with complimentary hair. I wonder if her face is as attractive?
Ok, ok, ok I just have to get this off my chest:
1. Watch the parents of these kids to scream racism/discrimination (via Affirmative Action) when little Wonderbread Johnny doesn't get into his 1st pick college. Or, 10 years down the line, wonder why Dymire has a "chip on his shoulder". pft..
2. Blaming the victim(s)? Really? How is it the children's fault that they were discriminated against? Are you implying that these kids deserved what they got for entering a White neighborhood? Have you at all considered that the field-trip advisors/organizers chose that club because their were capable and willing to accommodate the number of children in the group?
Just like the group organizers could have researched VSP and the surrounding area, VSP could have researched the youth group and declined their offer prior to committing to play host.
3. The lack of suitable pools in urban and predominantly Black communities has nothing to do with this story. While a valid topic, it's besides the point of this story. Did the kids and advisors deserve the treatment they received, because they didn't maintain the integrity of the pools in their neighborhood? (And that if they even had any available.)
4. Why are crimes against whites being injected into this as if it's further justification for the discrimination these kids experienced? If you want rant about how Whites are being hunted down and victimized by vicious minorities (e.g., Blacks), go to Stormfront.
bwbtt-"Ahhh....and of course... "now racism is gone since a biracial man was elected President!""
Are you SURE a black person wrote that? I think a white person said it.
wow
this was a mixed group of kids
i wonder if they selectively ejected just the black ones
look how classy and beautiful these black babies traumatized by those racists' at the pool look here:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html
shame!!!!!!!
Anonymous said...
Mr R,
I see what you mean. That woman has a great butt with complimentary hair. I wonder if her face is as attractive?
She does have good hair and a nice butt.I wonder if Obama will be stepping out tonight??
[quote]Hey Constructive Feedback :
Are you happy those little black kids got what they deserve ? The problem is this shit happens every day and you know it.What are you going to do about it ? Make more white clubs ?You're a fucking bitch , yea I said it.Solutions mother fucker.You can't see it but white people are calling us the N-word but not saying it.[/quote]
Kid:
This BLACK KIDS did not "get what they deserved"!
Their PARENTS GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED!!
You see Kid - these kids CAN'T VOTE!!
Their parents, after looking at the conditions that are present within their communities set out and had a "Groundhog Day" flashback on ELECTION DAY for the past 20 years!
They expressed VOTER NULLIFICATION as they walked out of their homes, down the streets that has drawn so much fear, loathing and trepidation upon their souls. They IGNORED the conditions of the schools that their kids depend upon to develop into more productive beings than the generation prior. They look past the "out of business" signs that were more abundant upon the people's MINDS than what were posted on the buildings.
They did this because they were so FOCUSED on accomplishing a GOAL.
Unfortunately the goal that they executed upon was not 'THEIR GOAL' it was some other entity's goal!! They simply were made to feel happy that in helping this EXTERNAL entity "win" that these feelings of joy would be conveyed into their communities as THEIR OWN.
Kid - WHAT WILL YOU DO if the plan to close the Public Libraries in Philadelphia comes to bear as it faces a $1 billion budget deficit over the next 5 years. When "the Blacks" go into the suburbs to make use of the services that "the White folk's" libraries provides are you going to PROTEST OUTSIDE OF THEIR DAMNED LIBRARIES??
Do you not see how INFERIOR you think?
I TOLD YOU ALL BEFORE:
Every city in this nation had been an "unincorporated area". At some point in the past the city leaders saw that with the assembled human, financial, industrial, transporation and natural resources - they could request a CITY CHARTER and craft a STANDARD OF LIVING that is greater than their present circumstances.
Kid - these Black kids went to this PRIVATE WHITE CLUB because the City of Philadelphia is an INSOLVENT ENTITY.
YOUR FAVORED PEOPLE (White and Black) won the POLITICAL control over the institutions - and you were PROUD.
They have thus far FAILED to field an ECONOMIC MODEL that allows those individuals who live within the boundaries of the city to experience NET BENEFITS from this union.
DON'T PLAY WITH ME LITTLE BOY.
I don't GIVE A DAMN if some White person is calling me "Nigger" when it is not in my ear shot.
It is more problematic that you are forced to HEAR IT FROM THEM because you are DEPENDENT upon the container of chlorinated water that they managed to treat, maintain the physical facilities and train ONE OF THEIR OWN to save the life of anyone of them who might be drowning - BECAUSE they value the lives of one of their own and want them to LIVE to see another day.
When will "People Over Profits" be applied to the PROGRESSIVE?
Where are the people training young Black people to be life guards?
Where are the summer camps in which the NEIGHBORHOOD people in Philly are maintaining their own damned pools?
Kid - repeat after me "I am not INFERIOR!! Now that I have control over all of the key instiitutions of my city I am able to leverage this and apply the same level of services to my people that others provided when I was shut out and I COVETED THE DAY IN WHICH I WOULD SIT IN THE SEATS OF POWER."
If you think that your best track is to get someone else to LIKE YOU after they MOVED AWAY FROM YOU and yet you followed - you are traveling a long and fruitless road.
Go sit down somewhere.
Blogger alicia banks said...
kidding
the only thing i find more depressing than your vulgar vocab in your mindless rants is that you actually believe FOX news is the primary satanic force in the universe...
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To my atheist friends and agnostic friends sorry, but the way FOX act is satanic.If Shepard Smith was so fair, why do he work at FOX?
Those kids shouldn't have to go through that crap.Stop being a cheerleader for white supremacy Alicia, OK.
I live in the Philly area and my friends out of state were wondering how this could happen in 2009 and they wondered why I was so nonchalant about it. Sorry, I live here. I wasn't a bit surprised. White liberals are sometimes the most racist people you'll ever meet.
Blogger Constructive Feedback said...
Kid - WHAT WILL YOU DO if the plan to close the Public Libraries in Philadelphia comes to bear as it faces a $1 billion budget deficit over the next 5 years. When "the Blacks" go into the suburbs to make use of the services that "the White folk's" libraries provides are you going to PROTEST OUTSIDE OF THEIR DAMNED LIBRARIES??
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Ok Destructive Weedsmack, what the hell do libraries have to do with throwing black kids out of a fucking pool ?
BTW, when I called you 'ole Kraftwerk head I didn't mean to insult Kraftwerk. They helped more black people than you did.To Florian Schrider, Karl Bartos and the boys, I'm sorry. Your drum machine gotten a lot of Hip-Hop head jobs(they invented it).Trans Europe Express is still played at parties.
CF-"If you think that your best track is to get someone else to LIKE YOU after they MOVED AWAY FROM YOU and yet you followed - you are traveling a long and fruitless road."
Preach it! Tell it like it is. AMEN... AMEN.
Grinder, from where do you get all this crap: I tip never less than 20%.<<
So do I. And the service has to be really bad for me to do otherwise.
Kid,
Your vulgarities and name calling are disgusting and very ugly. Clearly you are out of control. Do you consider yourself to be a mature person, worthy of respect when you don't respect others?
Are you able to carry on a conversation without having a vitriolic meltdown? Your words come from the depths of a sewer. You contribution thus far has been nothing but offensive crap for all readers. Get a grip...stop embarrassing yourself.
We do not approve.<<
That club gets what it deserves. And just who is "we"?
Negroes do not know how to act!<<
The article said nothing about the kids misbehaving. It was clearly that the kids were black, not their behavior that had the management press them to leave the pool. And your comments about black folks and swimming are way off the wall to me.
My father was a Navy man (Korean War) who dove off battleships and swam with dolphins in the middle of the ocean. When he came home and got married, he taught us how to swim when we came along.
So you can squash that stupid stereotype about blacks not knowing how to swim.
Sharon From WI joins the party-"Grinder, from where do you get all this crap: I tip never less than 20%.<<
So do I. And the service has to be really bad for me to do otherwise."
grinder you are getting your ass handed to you from all over the country. People are piling in like an invasion of Washington State. LOL. Now, do you understand what a little word like "tip" can do?
By now, you have to know the gravity of your mistake. When gorgeous black Jews from the great state of Wisconsin start in on your white ass, you have really gone too far.
Do you have a passport and a visa to somewhere?
An inside tip: If you really, really liked your food, buy the cook a beer and put it on your bill. They really love thst.<<<
You can do that?
I especially don't think anyone should stiff the servers. I also don't think they should treat them with discourtesy. These are people who are working for a living. They are not machines or slaves. I also think servers have an obligation to treat every customer with civility. I don't think servers should ever give anyone an attitude right off the bat.<<<
The waitstaff in any restaurant should be treated with courtesy.
As a matter of fact, people who mistreat waiters and waitresses are seen as jerks. And it's also a red flag indicating any man who abuses waitstaff is likely to abuse women.
The same is said for guy who kicks your cat or dog when he thinks you aren't looking.
[quote]Ok Destructive Weedsmack, what the hell do libraries have to do with throwing black kids out of a fucking pool ?[/quote]
The Budget Threat To Philly Free (Tax Payer Paid) Libraries
http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6626723.html
Kid:
I am trying to figure out which force is bearing down the most significantly upon you:
* Being Young?
* Being Angry?
* Being Ignorant?
They were HANDED THE $1900 BACK that they gave to WHITE BIGOTS and told to LEAVE.
think. Think. THINK!!!!!
If they had $1900 IN CASH....Why didn't the camp arrange to REOPEN A CLOSED POOL IN PHILLY .....using THEIR OWN DAMNED MONEY and thus pay for:
* The Clorine
* The Paint
* The Brooms to keep the place clean
* The Life guard salary
Kid - there are two ways to deal with Ignorant White people who don't want YOU in THEIR damned pool!!!
1) Set up a protest line in THEIR community and DEMAND that THEY treat you, the dependent, with the RESPECT that you are asking for FROM THEM.
2) Make sure that your own DAMNED POOL is in operating order and then you can tell them to "Kiss your Black behind" while you are sitting at your own pool.
Kid - my view would be different IF
1) They had lynched one of these young Black people
2) If they had assaulted one of these young Black people
(Surely they experience enough of this within the boundaries of Philly).
Since none of this happened - I STRUGGLE to understand Kid: Why would you want to ENRICH a White bigot with YOUR MONEY?
Are you always this desperate to NEED someone else to like you?
(Filled Negro - it's your fault. You incubate these types)
By now, you have to know the gravity of your mistake. When gorgeous black Jews from the great state of Wisconsin start in on your white ass, you have really gone too far. <<
You made my day. Thank you. :-)
Blogger Constructive Feedback said...
They were HANDED THE $1900 BACK that they gave to WHITE BIGOTS and told to LEAVE.
think. Think. THINK!!!!!
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I'm still thinking and they should apply a tort on them.In other words sue them.Did you want them to shine their shoes before they left ?
Constructive Feed
do you really think 1900.00 is going to re-open a pool, why don't you think about that? also, the point being that children were traumatized by being rejected out of the "club", i thought that was the issue?
Hey Kathy, thanks.
"My father was a Navy man (Korean War) who dove off battleships and swam with dolphins in the middle of the ocean."
Your father swam with *dolphins* too?! OK, that's going beyond "yes, black people can swim too" common sense and into "COOL!!!" territory. :)
kiddie:
i am no white supremacist
you got me mixed up with mj and his surgeons/rabid fans etc
no biggie
kathy said...
Constructive Feed
do you really think 1900.00 is going to re-open a pool, why don't you think about that? also, the point being that children were traumatized
How do you know they was traumatized??Are you their psychiatrist?
Anonymous said...
Kid,
Your vulgarities and name calling are disgusting and very ugly. Clearly you are out of control. Do you consider yourself to be a mature person, worthy of respect when you don't respect others?
People on the left just can't help themselves.
The issue of city pools opened or closed isn't the reason a day camp would chose to pay to swim in a controlled environment. The day camp has to have a specific day and time to swim and be able to provide a certain amount of security. I am not speaking about crime, but prevent the possibility of a child wandering off or a stranger accosting a child. The public pools, even in white neighborhood, always have wall to wall kids. Parents do want a structured environment when they put the children in day camp. What is even more surprising is that I see responses here as if the black parents here don't understand this or either don't understand the concept of day camp.
More than likely that day camp was located near the swim club. Black folks do live in that area too.
The Valley Swim Club has replaced it page with an apology. You can no longer see how they had previously advertised.
Blogger Hathor said...
The issue of city pools opened or closed isn't the reason a day camp would chose to pay to swim in a controlled environment. The day camp has to have a specific day and time to swim and be able to provide a certain amount of security. I am not speaking about crime, but prevent the possibility of a child wandering off or a stranger accosting a child.
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Hathor to quote David Byrne from the Talking Heads, "Stop Making Sense".
Go to Daily Kos.People are calling Malia Obama Ghetto Trash for wearing a T-shirt.The comment from Freepers calls her a monkey.
Thank you Hathor
grinder you are getting your ass handed to you from all over the country. People are piling in like an invasion of Washington State.
At least the ones who didn't read the link to the black columnist for the Seattle Times who wrote about it, huh?
You can do that?
Yeah, you can. A couple years ago I had this incredible meal in Chicago, and I said to the waitress that I wanted to buy a bottle of wine for the kitchen. She said, "Don't buy wine. Get 'em beers. They'll like it better. Kitchens are hot, and beer is more refreshing."
So that's what I did, and they loved it. I've done it a couple times since then, and the cooks always appreciate it. I only do it every now and then, when the food is just insanely great.
As a matter of fact, people who mistreat waiters and waitresses are seen as jerks. And it's also a red flag indicating any man who abuses waitstaff is likely to abuse women.
I knew a VERY wealthy guy, by which I mean billionaire rich, who would invest in companies. Not buy shares of stock through a broker, but big chunks of "private equity."
One of his tests of the management would be to take them to a restaurant he knew (ahem ... and owned) and watch their dealings with the staff very carefully. Sometimes he'd even arrange for the waitress to make some noticeable mistakes in the service. If the managers of the company were anything less than gracious, they didn't get funded.
He told me you can judge a lot about someone's character by how they treat someone who can't talk back.
They were HANDED THE $1900 BACK that they gave to WHITE BIGOTS and told to LEAVE.
think. Think. THINK!!!!!
If they had $1900 IN CASH....Why didn't the camp arrange to REOPEN A CLOSED POOL IN PHILLY .....using THEIR OWN DAMNED MONEY
The so-called private club had accepted money in return for a service, and then barred the day camp because the kids weren't white. There is no excuse, period. A refund doesn't even begin to cut it. The behavior was outrageous.
I do not, however, think it's an indictment of white America. It's a reminder that there's plenty of work yet to do.
To a Person of Interest.
Summer camps in Philly (and I suspect, most of the US) have kids ranging in age from 5 to 12 years old.
The Valley Swim Club folks are racist summamabitches.
What I haven't heard (yet) is whether actual, real, for true, legal action is being taken.
Seems like they ought to have a case...
Anybody know for sure?
How do you know they was traumatized??Are you their psychiatrist?
The one who was crying on CNN looked pretty fuckin' traumatized to me, bud.
"How do you know they was traumatized??Are you their psychiatrist?"
I am a parent, Mr. R and I have seen the look of devastation on a child's face. Nothing is worse, nothing can compare, to seeing a child hurt.
The Valley Swim Club has replaced it page with an apology. You can no longer see how they had previously advertised.
As of 2007, this is how they advertised:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070814083246/http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html
Now the club is saying that it wasn't the race of the day campers, but that overcrowing was the issue.
Sorry, crackers, you probably should have tried that excuse before the president of your club issued a statement saying that the day campers in question would have "changed the complexion" of the club, and before the staff told kids that "no minorities were allowed."
If you're going to tell lies, you're just going to have to be better at it than that.
Rudy,
That's what the website looked like as of 2-3 days ago.
They ain't fooling nobody. This thing is gathering steam.
Still, does anyone know if legal action is in the works?
Every lawyer in my building was salivating, hoping for the call.... ALL of them wanted to take this case.
On the local news tonight, they said the Day Camp had retained a lawyer. Lucky lawyer. This case will be fun to try.
Anonymous MR.R said...
Constructive Feed
do you really think 1900.00 is going to re-open a pool, why don't you think about that? also, the point being that children were traumatized
How do you know they was traumatized??Are you their psychiatrist?
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What if it was your kid? Or a white one ?After that they might need therapy.
CF-"think. Think. THINK!!!!!"
Don't you think you are demanding too much of Kid?
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