I am going to need some help with this one:
"A female runner accused of being a man tonight took gold in the 800m World Athletics Championship. South African Caster Semenya, 18, had to take a gender test after doubts were raised about her sex. But despite the furore, she easily took gold in the final in Berlin.
The teenage sensation has sparked controversy over her strikingly muscular physique. Today officials at the world athletics body, the IAAF, revealed that it ordered her to take a gender test three weeks ago."
The teenage sensation has sparked controversy over her strikingly muscular physique. Today officials at the world athletics body, the IAAF, revealed that it ordered her to take a gender test three weeks ago."
Wait, let me read that again......yep, girlfriend had to take a "gender test". So here is where I need some help: Just what the hell is a "gender test"? I mean call me simple, but shouldn't that test take all of three minutes? Ms. Semenya, could you kindly remove your pants, please? Yep, she is a woman alright. Let me stop. This is a serious issue. I am hoping one of my friends in the transgender or intersex community will help me with this one. Honestly, I think this is just an incredibly athletic female, and folks are having a hard time dealing with her dominance. Still, I will wait for the results like everyone else from the "gender test." We regret to announce that Ms. Semenya is actually Mr. Semenya... Oh lord I can't take it.
I spend a lot of time in the gym, and from time to time I see a woman working out whose back or abs I would love to have. No harm no foul as far as I am concerned. Not my cup of tea as far as physical attraction, but hey, to each his own.
Now in the athletic arena, unless girlfriend is boosting with roids or some form of performance enhancing drug, I don't see the problem. For years I had questions about the East German women and as it turns out they were all juiced up. Still, no one doubted that they were women.
I hope Ms. (Mr.) Semenya passes the test. It will be just one more reason to watch the Olympics in 2012.
213 comments:
1 – 200 of 213 Newer› Newest»I laughed so hard at your post that I gave myself a headache. I couldn't breathe and tears were streaming down my face. I had the EXACT SAME REACTION. What the hell is a "gender test" and how embarrassed is this young woman with all this needless attention?
Good grief.
Check this out from the original link:
"A group of doctors, including an endocrinologist, a gynaecologist, an internal medicine expert, an expert on gender and a psychologist, have started the procedure but it is uncertain when the results will be known."
Holy cow. The poor woman.
Her coach wasn't exactly supportive either. But he's South African and in South Africa they use "corrective rape" on lesbians.
I feel really bad for her to have to deal with this before the whole world. The IAAF ought to be ashamed of their unprofessional actions on this.
I also hope some of the other women athletes will speak up for her but I won't hold my breath as everyone is probably to worried about possibly losing endorsements.
LOL Field, when I posted this as a comment in the other thread, I had no idea you were going to blog about it. I was going to ask you via email LOL
Ok, I am at lost here. I think I need to here some sane perspectives from the other Field Negros on this whooper. I honestly don't know what to think of it, I mean... this can be looked at from all kinds of directions. These bigot sour losers don't ever miss an opportunity.
(scratching head)
I'll be back...
Doesn't "gender" refer to the psychological identity a person perceives of themselves, and "sex" refer to whether or not a person is XX or XY? "Gender test" is a misnomer, I believe.
That said, field, there are instances where a person may "present" externally as female but carry XY, and many other instances where a person's sex isn't neatly female or male.
La~Incognita, I responded to your comments under the other post. Yep, I am scratching my head as well.
"A group of doctors, including an endocrinologist, a gynaecologist, an internal medicine expert, an expert on gender and a psychologist, have started the procedure but it is uncertain when the results will be known."
WTF?
Black magic womnan, it was hard for me to write it. :)
Co-sign with Monie. (I think)
And if they test Ms. Semenya shouldn't they test everyone?
I hope she sues the IAAF and the woman who made the accusation into bankruptcy.
Lol@Field. What do you mean you think? Wasn't I clear?
Monie, you were clear. I am just so confused with this story. I mean why this young lady, and not some of the other very athletic women I have seen in the past? I don't know...
I know one thing, I would love to have her abs. :)
Oh okay. Well I think it amounts to sour grapes and that her team didn't stand up for her and refuse to allow this test.
I doubt very seriously if the U.S. team would have allowed one of their athletes to go through this.
i will be shocked if she passes that test
i do think this is a man
i have never seen any woman so masculine
not even in the wnba etc...
track and swimming are the only 2 sports i love
so i will be watching!
Men have an Adam's apple, I don't see one on her.
"I mean why this young lady, and not some of the other very athletic women I have seen in the past? I don't know.'
I know, and to "who's" standards does she look masculine or not feminine? If she had lost, or came in last, would there even be a question?
These bigot sour losers don't ever miss an opportunity.
Black women dominate the running scene already. it sounds to me like someone "dropped a dime" on this particular individual. Probably a competitor or someone who knows something we don't. it's very strange considering there are other runners who are every bit as masculine looking as this woman.
It looks really strange, whatever it is.
These racist ass mofos can't stand the fact that a beautiful Africian sista won.
All these white racism is getting to me field.My blood pressure is sky high.
I'm gonna have to take a week off from posting.
I think i'm gonna go camping.I hope theres no white racism out in da woods.
Field you be careful while i'm gone.I done heard Sarah Palin maybe looking for you fields.I know you wanna "hit dat" but leave it alone.Once she throws that Alaskan salmon on you field you gonna be just like that brutha Kenneth Gladney.
Leave it alone my brutha!! Leave it alone!!
Later ya'll
And how will this impair Ms. Semenya's ability to get endorsements? I'm not an attorney but I would think this might do her serious financial harm.
Alicia you have some nerve. Most of us were already convinced that you look like a man in a wig pretending to be a lesbian.
(Sorry, I had to go anonymous on this one because she's too vindictive. I don't want her focusing on me, and calling me out my name in your next 300 tantrum comments.)
assnon
my long silky locks aremy real hair
you sound bald/weaved!
do not hate me because i am gorgeous and natural too!
___
fn
is she is a man
she will not be the 1st hoax exposed
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1207653/Womens-800m-gold-medal-favourite-Caster-Semenya-takes-gender-test-hours-World-Championship-race.html
real
they are n
assnon:
u went anon because you went coward long ago
and u DO know i am gunning for you anyway right???????
beware 4 real!!!:
Mere words will never express just how deeply I loathe countless juvenile cowards who abuse the Internet by posting ruthless venom online. As all public figures who have meaningful lives, I have dealt with such despicable antics by envious haters, stalkers, and bloggers for decades…
Fortunately, I am a fierce lioness who remains undaunted. I am also insanely busy juggling multiple careers as an educator of children and adults, administrator, columnist, etc… I have always longed for the luxury of the time to relentlessly hunt down each one of my haters and dole out the legal slayings they earn online daily!
In 1992, as a popular talk radio host in Atlanta, I was compelled to hire an entertainment attorney to silence an envious local peer who incessantly slandered me on the air, due to his intense rage about my superior talents and ratings. Gleefully, that brief legal beating led to his demise and silencing as my radio career soared all the way to California. To date, it is one of the sweetest victories of my perpetual warrior life.
Mercifully, the anonymity of the Internet protects spineless bullies from similarly swift destructions. Legal victories are far more difficult when envious losers slander anonymously as they hide like human roaches behind their computers. Yet, any battle fought passionately may be won.
KUDOS TO LISKULA COHEN!!! She is a renowned model who fought and exposed a cyberbully who viciously harassed and libeled her for months online. This is a legal precedent that inspires me to clear my calendars and start slaying spineless scummy haters online ASAP! HATERS BEWARE!!!….
CONGRATULATIONS LISKULA COHEN!!!!!!!
Read about how she crushed a cowardly cyberbully here:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8359356
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6801213.ece
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1107605/Vogue-cover-girl-goes-court-force-Google-unmask-cyber-bully-branded-skank-ho.html
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01062009/news/regionalnews/model_snared_in_ugly_web_147440.htm
-Anonymous/10:43 PM-
Lmao! I would not say Alicia is a man but I share your sentiment about her comment being very mean.
I too am posting anonymously to spare myself her crazy reprisals.
"next 300 tantrum comments"
That's funny.
Alicia banks speaks the truth.Even when the truth hurts a little.
She should be shown respect and people should watch and listen has she spreads her knowledge though the fields.
Cowards attack her everyday but she rolls on.
Keep spreadin' tha knowledge !!!
distracted
sorry
"they are n" =
they are nothing new
that is:
bitch made men like shabass, assnon, kid et al OFTEN pretend to be females in sports because they know they could never play fair and tackle a real male peer...
shame!!!
anon:
thanks!!!
i am a fn warrior from way back
nahmean????
smile
it is how i am living
it is my everyday life
ab
tracy chapman
born to fight
They're tryin' to take away my pride
By stripping me of everyhing I own
They're tryin' to hurt me inside
And make me into a white man's drone
But this one's not for sale
And I was born to fight
I ain't been knocked down yet
I was born to fight
I'm the surest bet
There ain't no man no woman
No beast alive that can beat me
'Cause I'm born to fight
They're tryin' to dig into my soul
And take away the spirit of my god
They're tryin' to take control
And monitor my every thought
I won't let down my guard
And I was born to fight
I ain't been knocked down yet
I was born to fight
I'm the surest bet
There ain't no man no woman
No beast alive that can beat me
'Cause I'm born to fight
"Alicia banks speaks the truth.Even when the truth hurts a little."
Lmao! Alicia you are so funny! I did not know you had a sense of humour!
Actually it may not be as simple as anyone thinks as there is the possibility of the woman having a sexual disorder called hermaphite now known has intersexual. She could carry both female and male repdouctive systems, so that exam will take a good while. She could have a vagina, but testicles are lodged internally. Then there are the levels of estrogen and testosterone, she may producing more testosterone than estrogen. Then her parents may have known of this condition at the time of her birth and made the decision to raise her as a girl, since she did have any outdoor plumbing if you know what I mean. It was probably the best, but not fullu understand consequences of the decision as no one knows the physchological affects.
I am not saying that the runner is an intersexual, but everything is not always as it appears. It is like the lottery, hey you never know.
In fact, it could be a complicated issue. Can you imaginel possessing both reproductive systems and do want to be a man or a woman?
Now my opinion, there is preconceived notion that men run faster women. Women are still considered the weaker sex in society especially in the world of sports. It is sexism. How dare she run faster than a man, why she must be man.
baldhead assnon:
i am mean to mean morons only
and i am THE meanest always...bet
i am a lipstick lesbian femme
and so is my wife
i love being the feminine lesbian woman i was born to be
wish u were a lioness like me?
or had my real locked mane?
http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/ALICIAS-PHOTOS.htm
Alicia Banks said In 1992, as a popular talk radio host in Atlanta, I was compelled to hire an entertainment attorney to silence an envious local peer who incessantly slandered me on the air, due to his intense rage about my superior talents and ratings.
YAWN!!!!!!!
Some folks are legends in their own minds....
assnons
i never ever post anonymously
i kick ass herein solo always
so
i do not need to fake my own allies as u cowards do
and
i have a spine
fyi
kizzie
if niggers like you used just 1 tenth of the energy they do envying warriors like me...and use that same 10th of wasted envious energy to do something positive
the black race would rule the world
shame... i see u
"Why has Alicia Banks, a beloved radio voice, gone back to school? 'I want to be as radical and renowned as a professor as I am as a talk show host.' Her FM show...has been her 'labor of love' for a decade...'I decided to change careers at this point because radio has been entirely locked down by white male neocons'...The same forces that inspired Banks to head to the hills of academia conspire against marginal forces in music...She points out that the vast majority of radio stations are owned by a small number of companies, and playlists are increasingly computerized...." GIRLFRIENDS MAGAZINE 7/2000
"Musicologist, activist, and cyber columnist is how Alicia Banks describes herself. But she's better known to her fans and detractors as a popular talk radio personality. She is the producer, creator, and host of two radio shows...Alicia heats up early morning airwaves with her take-no -prisoners approach. But her shock-jock comparisons end with her eclectic mix of music and anti-racist interpretation...." GIRLFRIENDS MAGAZINE 9/1997
"Alicia Banks drops a weekly bomb fused with consciousness and sister melodies..." HUES MAGAZINE 11/1996
"If talk radio seems dominated by clones of Rush Limbaugh, Alicia Banks is the answer...Her fans revere her...The creator of two immensely popular radio programs, Banks has her finger on the pulse of American culture. There's a growing hunger for her message..." VICTORY MAGAZINE 1/1996
"Banks makes it her business to deliver music, news and commentary in a way that challenges...Her show has become ground zero for a fire storm of controversy...Banks has built an enthusiastic audience and won a second prime time talk show...."OUT MAGAZINE 6/1994
"Banks' programs are no ordinary talk shows...Her broadcasts are not to be taken lightly. She seems ready for anything. She is fearless..." DENEUVE MAGAZINE 6/1994
"Banks' program combines the voices of Dinah Washington and Billie Holiday with tribal songs, fictional readings, erotica, and political discussions. It is the politics which have caused a stir..." THE WASHINGTON BLADE 2/25/1994
"Alicia Banks jumped the tracks from FM to AM, sending sparks through the airwaves and widening debates on heated topics...Banks is no ordinary talk show host. She's articulate, intelligent, and above all, she's fearless...Banks' soft graceful voice belies the forcefulness of her views...Since 1989, the French-fluent host has segued personal commentary and literary messages with hours of music..." ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION 10/14/1993
"Since 1989, Alicia has been heating up the airwaves with her eyebrow raising program...Although the show is packed with great voices of the past and present, there's room for deep talk...Banks is now having the last laugh with her success..." ATLANTA MAGAZINE 10/1993
"Alicia Banks is no wimp... It's that kind of outspokenness that has brought an audience to her show..." SOUTHERN VOICE 6/17/1993
kizzie
no rush
but you may want to congratulate me later on my 2 newest awards
fyi
Who’s Who Among American Women 2008 & 2009
Who’s Who in America 2008-2010
Who’s Who in American Education 2007-2008
Who’s Who in the World 2007 & 2010
Who's Who Among America’s Teachers 2005-2006
Who's Who Among African-Americans 2001
University of Arkansas at Little Rock MAIOC
Summa Cum Laude - 4.0 Cumulative GPA 2001
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) Trailblazer Award 1996
Outstanding Young Woman of America 1986
Who's Who Among Students in American Universities & Colleges 1984
UIUC Dean's List 1984
UIUC Senior 100 Honorary 1984
UIUC Black Alumni Association Earl Dickerson Achievement Award 1983
UIUC Black Alumni Association Potential Leadership Award 1982
UIUC 5.0 GPA Award 1982
***Pours glass of water and gives Alicia her Lithium***
To be honest, at first glance she look's like a Young Man, but, that is not strange to me.
There are women in certain part's of Africa that have Manly Facial Feature's, just a fact, they have short cropped hair, like the men.
How many time's have I watched the new's and they show the people that live in Africa, they will show small children playing, you think it's a little Boy and then you find out it's a little Girl! and then you say to yourself/ (I don't believe it) I have seen this a thousand time's, and it's the same with the Adult Woman as well.
I have to be honest, the person on that picture, has all of those women in Africa beat! she win's hand's down! she has surely added more depth to her Feature's, and why? I will never know!
Hennasplace,
She actually didn't run faster than a man.
Here's an excerpt from the Guardian about other athletes: "Such situations are not altogether unusual in sport. Earlier this year, tennis player Sarah Gronert – a 22 year-old German competing on the WTA tour – had her gender questioned when it was revealed that she was born with both male and female genitalia. Gronert had surgery aged 19 and is now legally considered a woman. At the 1936 Olympics, in the same Berlin stadium, Stella Walsh won silver in the 100 yard dash. After her death, an autopsy revealed she possessed male genitalia as well as female characteristics."
assnon:
save that lithium for obama
he will need it post vacation!
THE AUDACITY OF OPULENCE!!!
As most Americans stress over belatedly purchasing minimal and discounted school supplies, President Barack Obama/GWB 2.0 continues to spend more money on extravagant vacations and supreme “date nights” than George W. Bush/King Shrub ever dared to do…
Hypocritically, even as Obama brazenly pretends that his own elitism is any less rabid than the elitists who puppet him, he and his family are vacationing at the 20.35 million dollar Blue Heron Farm, owned by wealthy Mississippi Republikkkan William Van Devender. This magnificent farm is located in Chilmark, Massachusetts, the richest city in America. The total cost of this ritzy vacation will make Obama’s legendarily expensive public tab for his romantic evening in New York City look like the average American’s costs for an evening of dollar menu Frankenfood and a dollar DVD, by tragic comparison.
Most racist and foolish black Obama Nazis will look vicariously upon this untimely and vulgar excess as one beloved black family innocently “living large”. I see only one more amoral, money green, callously rich, and blindly worshipped politico flaunting his limitless wealth in the suicidally adoring faces of the infinitely impoverished idiotic masses. SHAME ON THIS BLACKISH JOKER!!!!
Obama/GWB 2.0 is a ruthless hoax and a rabid celebrity. Celebrity worship is the newest primary religion in America. And, precisely as Karl Marx warned us very long ago, religion is indeed the “opiate of the people”, even when the people are homeless, unemployed, and hungry!
Read more about Obama’s opulent offenses and the increasing miseries of his uniquely masochistic and mindless fans here:
http://www.mvgazette.com/news/2005/10/07/blue_heron_farm_sale.php
http://www.mvtimes.com/print/web2printer4.php?img=0&lnk=0&style=/styles/common/print.css&page=http://www.mvtimes.com/marthas-vineyard/news/2009/07/23/obama-visit.php
http://www.mvgazette.com/article.php?22099
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/16/nyregion/16foreclose.html
http://uhurunews.com/story?resource_name=obama-s-plan-for-home-owners-no-help-for-black-latino-or-poor-communities
http://www.uhurunews.com/story?resource_name=uhuru-movement-challenges-obama-for-not-speaking-to-african-community-interests
http://uhurunews.com/story?resource_name=white-power-in-black-face
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/01/curl-cost-nyc-weekend/
ditto
she may be naturally intersexed
and that could set a new legal matter into motion...
I could be wrong, but I think they verify through medical testing whether or not she has "XX" chromosomes.
ditto assnons/cowards:
300 tantrums can be 0
u decide
i will always finish what you start
problem?
then do not start
like frederick douglas said:
slaves who were whipped easiest were whipped most often
none of you bully posse fools herein will EVER whip me
and you will especially not even try to whip me easily
I think AB doesn't have enough to keep her busy this evening and she just hi jacked Fields Comments section.
assnon:
you are posting this pm too
why???
i think fn can speak for himself
i will always hijack comments that attack me herein
and there will only be corpses when the planes land
i never pull a gun i do not fatally fire
alicia banks & anon - can you take this to another forum or something?
the back and forth pissing match has gotten old.
Racist rightwingers like Hannity and the Kimmer tried to get alicia banks taken off the air.They were jealous this beautiful black woman was given a voice in Atlanta.
She made it to the top while those racist rightwingers wallowed in their own filth.
If she is a woman this must be embarrassing to her.
But remember the story of Renee Richards, the tennis player.
see his/her bio at:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0724294/bio
Makaii
anon:
it was actually a black male who did that to me in atl...a gaybashing bm token at a white station...fyi
hannity blew up via newtie
way beyond any of his peers
including me
Those who have been awake and those who have researched recent reality will never believe these neocon lies. But, there are millions of gullible fools who actually believe the amazing lie that neocon hosts rule talk radio simply because there are no liberal radio hosts or fans.
In the real world (a place where Rush Limbaugh’s dimwitted dittoheads and Sean Hannity’s narcissistic Nazis never dare to roam), liberal radio was strategically nullified by neocon media monopolies. It was a hostile national takeover led by Michael Powell (Republikkkan Colin Powell’s son). Michael expertly accomplished this sinister mission years ago, while appointed chairman of the FCC. He swiftly used his assigned power to legalize monopolies by huge neocon radio empires.
I am one of thousands of popular, veteran, liberal talk radio hosts whom neocons feared, because we were consummately superior talents. Rather than compete with us on the air, neocon radio owners eradicated us in the courts. As they bought all of the microphones, they silenced all liberal voices. And, they still control a national neocon apartheid in talk radio to this very day.
For years, we have excruciatingly watched neocons play solo with the supreme talk radio power that their purchases wrought. We have had to listen to neocons speak for liberals as they sang bigoted myths to choirs of neocon drones. Our entire nation has been abused as these neocons wielded their exclusive radio power to help King Shrub/George W. Bush steal two presidential elections. ..
Now, these cowardly neocon radio hogs fear that their costly party is over. They fear that the fairness laws they paid Powell to reverse may be reinstated. They fear liberal talk radio owners and hosts may finally have a chance to fairly compete on radio airwaves. They are blatantly lying to you when they call the return of fair competition “censorship”.
Test your very own radio dial. Try to find just one liberal talk host on one station where you live. Remember that each time you hear a syndicated minstrel show/lewd locker room/KKK rally, what you are really hearing is a local radio crew that is unemployed. Those sounds of silence or silliness that you hear have indeed been collective censorship by monopoly for decades….
Wake up America! Listen up. The revolution will not be televised. But, it might begin to whisper soon, via a revival of variety on your radio dials…
Read about what really happened to us liberal radio hosts here:
FCC MOVES TO INTENSIFY CONSOLIDATION
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1690
LAST STOP BEFORE THE MEDIA MONOPOLY
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2003/05/23/powells_fight/index.html
UP IN FLAMES: THE PUBLIC REVOLT AGAINST MONOPOLY MEDIA
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1031-01.htm
R.J. said...
I could be wrong, but I think they verify through medical testing whether or not she has "XX" chromosomes.
I remember when you could just tell someone to drop they draws.
Why does everything have to be so complicated?
History Dude
I do not if she does faster than man. I was being sardonic. However, there is the air of sexism because the judges believed she could be a man as women cannot run that fast. This more about sex than race. In sports, women have the burden of not only being competitive, but still have to look feminine. I remember the coach of the Tennesse Blue Belles in which Wilma Rudolph was one of his stars, told his girls that he wanted foxes not oxes. They could nnot even looked they were out of breath or break a sweat after a race. The politics and the sex of sports.
funny bmw:
i see pissing matches daily herein and in all blogs
why is this one bothering you so???
anon:
an intersexed people could have oen organ only
and still be the opposite sex from their organ internally
ie
intersexed boys are born with
a penis
no vagina
a womb/ovaries etc
read jocelyn elder's book
she is a surgeon who specializes in intersex surgeries/sex reassignment etc
it is a very imperfect and complex sci
and that is why millions of people become transexuals etc
they are tragic victims of arbitrary and erroneous surgeries
see
http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/SCIENCE-OF-SEXUALITY.htm
Anony comments at 11:30 pm. Alicia reads comment and graciously replies with a complete thesis at 11:33 pm. All that in just 3 minutes? The "compliment" and the timing further above was also telling.
Black Magic Woman, maybe Field will get frustrated enough and take action. Something has to give.
see more on intersexed humans here
http://www.luckymojo.com/tkintersex.html
li
your brazen hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me
am i violating some word ct quota/too much sanity for your tiny catty mind?
which?
no one ever censors those who attack me/post in my name
you even dare to tag team and cheer them
then as soon as i slay their asses
you want to whine and pretend this is some sacred twitter sized prayer wall
spare me your increasingly transparent bs
do not hate me because my shine erases your dim bs herein
RJ
Chromosomes are the genetic markings, however hermaphites can possibly have the XX or XY, but physicologically possess male and female redproductive systems. It is indeed physciological paradox. Life is not always simple. My granmother use to tell me do not everything you see and only half of what you hear. Life is mysterious and that is most interesting part about, and the reason that we need to let go of our assumptions. I have a mystery about making sweetbreads and actually eating them.
hp
ditto
thanks!
sexuality is never black and white
sexuality is universally VERY gray in all species
ONLY foolish "holy" gaybashers/sexists try to make it simple when it is infinitely complex
field -
Slate is on the job now.
http://www.slate.com/id/2225810/?from=rss
if she is a man
comedians will have way too much fun with his name
semen-ya
etc
Sister Alicia....one comment and I am out. Us Black folks have been trained to see beauty thru the eyes of the master. The generation that 'was given' the white women hates what they see in the mirror. They have to have an Euro women to create offsprings that don't look like them. Feel pity for them who look at someone that looks like their mothers (you) and they have contempt. These are the same people who are helpless to stop the carnage of my race. The Euro(s) have put us on self genocide.PS All males were females first in the womb. Mullarian duct
@ Granny
Remember the "Woman" in The Crying Game. No Adam's Apple either.
stillapanther!
i love u like jah do!
thank you!
i thank god daily for my authentic black beauty and i will never let euro fools blind me to my own beauty as they are blinded by their own euro eyes!
have a great evening!
maybe you don't post anon, and think it's ok to call people assnon.
you a narcissist...this isn't your blog...you've said enough.
assnon:
cowards should never give orders
especially to me
The Euro(s) have put us on self genocide.PS All males were females first in the womb. Mullarian duct
uhh huhh So apparently blacks are just helpless puppets. Euros did this, they made me do that, made me love da white woman. Get a life.
StillaPanther2, Alicia was the hypocrite that started the disrespect towards Semenya based on her own superficial standards.
Let the berating begin.
li
you are an illiterate lying shrew
i simply said she looks like a man to me
i stand by that
you chose a very phallic id herein
sorry if you look like a man too
i did not mean to offend you by association
Anonymous 12:08:
Nah, I haven't seen the movie, "The Crying Game".
Li,
What does "save your black t-shirts for someone else" mean?
Why do they need an internal medicine and a psych to figure out if she is a woman? That don't make sense to me.
First of all the intelligence of you people are surprising. Their going to test dude on dna level to see if she is really a she. My next take is this, it should be obvious that this is a man. Hell Don Imus can see that. I haven't seen a chick this homely sense the old Soviet Union days. For those of you who are old enough to remember, what did those East Germans look like again?
Alicia, I hope you lose sleep tonight. I have two words for you.
Kola Boof!
.
The Bulgarians tried passing off some suspiciously steroided creatures in Olympic weightlifting back in the Cold War era. M to F transsexual Renee Richards had to sue to enter a professional tennis tournament.
BTW, last night I dreamed I couldn't get out of Philly. I was on a highway I didn't recognize, none of the signs made sense & I didn't know if I was headed to the Ben Franklin (bad, nobody wants to get lost in Camden) or the Walt Whitman, or somewhere else. I'm a North Jersey guy, I only know Center City, Art Institute. & the Spectrum.
li
i have 2 for you too:
hater moron!
i think you are a really a man who is in love with kola boof
slime attracts slime
http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/kolabs.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/11/books/11BOOF.html
li
i always sleep very well
weary from slaying bimbos like you
This woman looks like a man and has the body of a man. In fairness to the other women, she/he should be tested.
If she looks like a man, runs like a man, sounds like a man, she probably is a man.
Nah AB I remember that thread and you were the one in love with Kola Boof but she don't want you. so you curse her out because she thinks your crazy and she don't want to be a lesbian for you.
ab: "li
i have 2 for you too:
hater moron!"
ab, ditto! LI is a nut and should STFU.
AB is really anonymous "12:40" ... lol
Anon 12:43A "AB is really anonymous "12:40" ... lol"
Nope. AB doesn't post as anon. You must be new on this blog. How do we know that you aren't LI posting as anon trying to get back at ab? You are such a sore loser.
kid/assnon:
and now this assnon is li's intersexed retarded half kiddie
i can tell by all the signature verbs burst etc
you 2 clowns already did the same old tired dated cyber jig re: kola herein
learn some new tricks bitches!
___
unlike me
li and kid always post as assnon to create allies and cheerleaders herein
it is mandatory for their moronic "posts"....
assnon:
kola is globally renowned as a pathological liar and internet hoax
she said the same bs about osama bin laden
and she has never even met him
i understand you are kindred lying trifling spirits
no li
shabass is a bitch 2
but he has never danced that same kola jig like u and kid did...
get a new schtick shrew
and shabass is not a retard so he is way more functionally literate than kid...
Field and to all, I apologize for this getting out of hand. I have nothing further to say. This was a really good thread.
Good night.
I saw a brief interview with Semenya, and even her voice is masculine. Seems like she's intersex or something like that.
Btw, is this still the Field Negro blog or did I accidentally stumble upon the Alicia Banks website?
es:
effortless stab at sarcasm?
try again
and next time
give due credit to the assnons et al?
Field,
don't want to get too technical here. especially since the sociological implications of this episode are more significant than the physiological posts. Plus folk have covered it fairly well.
It is true, simply put, that we all start out as female. To become a male, one must have hormone that suppresses the growth of the female organs, plus the one that stimulates the growth of male organs. And those hormones must do their jobs. There is at least one celebrity who had non-functioning testosterone, therefore, though genetically a male, did not develop that way--genotypically male(what the chromosomes show), but phenotypically female(what the appearance is)
It's pretty complicated. But it allows my wife the fodder to confirm the fact that we men have deficient genetic material.
Doc L,
You make a good point. IMO, I really think she is a 'he'. There is NOTHING feminine about her. I think that is why they are testing her/him.
Why won't IAAF let Caster be great? Jealousy is a bitch.
Read my comment, have any of you people paid attention to African Women? some look like she doe's, some look like Men! and that's even when they have on their African attire/ most are Tall, Dark, with Short Cropped Hair, and they have Strong Male Feature's! but, they are Women with Children/ but, this woman is the Extreme!!! or she may just be a MAN!!!
What about Nigerian Feature's and skin tone's? they have BROAD wide face's and most look as if they were born in America/ they don't look as African as this lady!
I can't remember the name of the athlete but during Nazi Germany there was someone who had to pretended to be another gender and did get busted.
Off to research.
To Doc L and all those above who enlightened me, thanks.
Personally, I still think she is a woman. But I could be wrong.
If I forget, will someone please post the results of the test? Even if you have to thread jack to do it.
Granny, are you one of the two people in the world who have never seen "The Crying game"?. It was overated, but rent the dvd and let us know what you think.
Yes Makaii, Dr. Renee Richards comes to mind. As a tennis player I remember her story well.
"I could be wrong, but I think they verify through medical testing whether or not she has "XX" chromosomes."
RJ, I think you are right. But one of the really smart people who post here could confirm it.
Anon said:
Anonymous said...
I think AB doesn't have enough to keep her busy this evening and she just hi jacked Fields Comments section.
She is totally out of her mind. His blog is her entire life where she gets to pretend she is a star and where she can freely hijack threads with her attention gaining tactics and insanity.
Regarding Caster, I'll await testing because that case is fishy, fishy.
Well, if they prefer those pre-op types who fool all sorts of dudes, so be it. Just because she doesn't have a mane full of hair and isn't rail thin doesn't meant jack these days!
That aint no Woman thats a MAN baby!!!!! I mean c'mon from the neck up she looks like a 1987 Mike Tyson.
and would y'all quit using the word "Gender" incorrectly? "Gender"s a grammatical concept, the correct word is "Sex"...
Did you see that "Salvatoe" guy that shot 4 bruthas in Harlem last week? He was on GMA this morning...
Frank
LOL reminds me of an old Redd Foxx routine, about the woman who thought her doctor gave her the wrong Hormone pills...
"But Doctor, I've started growing hair on my chest"
"How long is it?"
"Goes all the way to my Dick"
Thanks, Field, hadn't thought of that line since 1978
Frank
Just my two cents, but seems to me that if they can't tell HER gender by taking her clothes off, well to be fair, they need to do that "gender testing" on ALL contestants. I mean, who knows where a stray XY chromosome might be hiding?
...yop
Just gave myself a "gender test", which took all of 5 seconds. Yep, it's still there, I'm still a man. *Phew*
Some of the comments on here about Semenya, saying basically that "some Africans just look like that"... come on, people. Sure some Africans do, but there are mannish women in every country and race, no need to make it a racial thing.
Btw Alicia - personally I'd appreciate it if both you and the "assnons" would go duke it out somewhere else.
If I wanted to read about every facet of your apparently illustrious life, I'll go to your site, rather than Field's.
Here's my question:
so what if she is a "man" or intersexed? Can she still compete? What are the implications for whatever testing they do. That's what I would like to do.
How does her speed compare to male athletes?
who in the hell is this Alicia Banks character? Quite belligerent. *smh*
field -
here's an article quoting the young woman's grandmother.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8211319.stm
I have a google alert set up for you. I'll let you know when the results show up!
I want to see her boyfriend....(egads!)
Or, her girlfriend, if she's the carpet-munching type.
es
ew
li-ar
kizzie
assnons
et al...:
your INCREASINGLY blatant envy will never silence me
your arrogant ignorance and selective policing of fn's blog will never control me
i will never follow any rules herein that you do not
i will always respond to all of your abuses in kind...
deal with that
Ditto!
Deep breath..... gender is an identity.... sex is related to physical characteristics...... she identifies as female and says she is sex identified female.
I think she is a bit young to have had sex reassignment surgery, which is very expensive and difficult, and I cannot imagine, given her obvious training as an athlete, that she has gone through the procedure at such a young age (she is only 18!).
With that said, I find all of the snarky comments above about her looks to be, well, snarky. Sounds to me like this young woman made lemons out of lemon-aide. She was teased as a child for "looking like a boy" and we have already witnessed the homophobic comments just on this blog, so I imagine there was plenty of that for her growing up as well.
What I do not find "funny" is the numbers of suicides among teenagers who are teased, beaten and abused for being gay or because they "look gay" regardless of whether they were or not. Homophobia kills.
Heck I'm still not convinced Janet Reno was the first female US Attorney General.
I think I saw Reno ramming into the side of a safari truck on Animal Planet the other night.
"What I do not find "funny" is the numbers of suicides among teenagers who are teased, beaten and abused for being gay or because they "look gay" regardless of whether they were or not. Homophobia kills."
No more than racism kills or rightwing hatred kills.
What's with all the rednecks showing up to Obama appearances with unconcealed loaded weapons?
I suppose it has nothing to do with him being the first BLACK US President, huh?
She could be on something. It was only because of informers that they found Marion Jones was juicing. That could easily be the case here. There could also be hormone replacement going on. Some forms of female-to-male HRT do not use testosterone, instead relying on steroid-like compounds or “ando pro-hormones,” which encourage the patient’s body to produce its own testosterone. Not sure if that type of thing would be red-flagged on drug tests.
Apparently South Africa is not happy about this controversy and citizens are complaining about all of this:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g7iJCMNtWOxGnnHs7LVR3VF6wHVQ
Apparently they are going to a Chromosome test to see if she is "trisomic." So for example:
xy xx
male female
xxy or xxyy
intersex also intersex
Semenya answers questions in this video.
She looks pretty feminine (although very muscular) in the clip.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/19/caster-semenya-gender-verification-test
I mean, alicia's not attractive.
You don't see anyone calling her a man?
"A group of doctors, including an endocrinologist, a gynaecologist, an internal medicine expert, an expert on gender and a psychologist, have started the procedure but it is uncertain when the results will be known."
The endocrinologist can guess the hormonal sex of a person via several marker hormones (Testosterone and Estrogen being two of the more obvious ones - although there are many more). A gynecologist can verify female sexual organs and their functionality (or lack thereof). A psychologist can (hopefully) determine what gender she considers herself (pretty obvious). I don't know the purpose of the "internal medicine expert" or "expert of gender" serve (maybe determining secondary sexual characteristics and societal view or her gender?).
If you want my 2-second guess from glancing at a picture and having no knowledge of the field, she (like around 1.7% of the population) is intersexed, so figuring out which sex in a binary M/F system she maps to for the purposes of physical activity is non-trivial, and one method of determining sex may give different results than another way of determining sex.
And no, XX vs XY (which is a simple test doable in a few minutes) isn't particularly definitive. There are XX "males" and XY "females", if they're rare. And, of course, there are plenty of people with something other than 2 sex chromosomes.
Also women who exercise or do heavy work can develop heavy muscles especially if done at a young age. Heavy duty running will also suppress the menses and reduce a lot of fat. Women who develop a lot of muscle look more mannish than than women who don't and as women get older and the hormones go away, we tend to turn into little old men. Sigh.
I have known two women, one in her early fifties and one in her mid thirties who ran excessively and they reduced their breasts to boyish looking lumps and had very visible abs.
In reality, though maybe not politically, it doesn't matter what sex/gender he/she is. The issue is if he/she was/is using performance enhancing drugs. She could be using them to cheat, as could he, thinking he might get away with it since he is somewhat feminized.
It is certainly possible that some type of "sex-change" or corrective surgery took place when they were an infant. Most cases of intersex, or ambiguous gentialia have traditionally been assigned as female. Psychological implications, notwithstanding, that has been the easier assignment. obviously, things are more complicated when diagnosis isn't made until puberty or later.
If Semenya is a genetic male, but feminized, he's done nothing wrong. If she is a masculinized female, then she still has done nothing wrong by competing as a female. Just to the certainly debatable extent that men are better at this, she might have some advantage.
The IAAF look like idiots. When she ran mediocre times among women, there was no doubt about her gender. Now she is running world record times and the ask for a gender test? WTF?
Why not ask for a drug test?
There is a subset of people out there who are intersexed. They used to be called hermaphrodites, but the terminology has changed.
The intersexed aren't common, but the definitely exist. Not only that, but there is considerable evidence that all the modern chemicals in the environment are making the phenomenon more common.
Aside from the physically intersexed, there are "transgendered" people, who are physically one sex but identify as the other sex. It's usually men who think of themselves as women, but I've met a so-called "FTM" person ("female-to-male"). These are the people who, if they can afford it, get sex change surgery.
At a gut level I don't understand any of it, but I do sympathize with the difficulties inherent. It sounds like the runner might turn out to be intersexual.
most intersexed people have ONLY one externally visible sex organ
hermaphrodites typically have two viisble sex organs
like homos, intersexed and hermaphrodites exist in ALL living species
ie
all sea lions are hermaphrodites who breed simultanoeusly...
oysters change their sex organs every 2 hrs etc...
intersexed is NOT synonymous with hermaphrodite
many human boys are born with wombs and penises only..so they are arbitrarily castrated and given surgical vaginas at birth...
this is all a capricious science that fuels tortured transexual/gay souls...
when "holy" doctors and gaybashers play god, god's unique human toys are the losers
shame!!!
see more:
http://www.isna.org/faq/hermaphrodite
lots more info here:
http://www.isna.org/
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=intersex
@Trueblue-
Hermaphrodites would be a subset of intersexed; true hermaphrodites have both functional ovarian and testicular tissue.
There is strong evidence to believe that transgendered people are intersexed; specifically that at least part of their brain selected differently than typical for their apparent external sex (warning: link to powerpoint presentation).
Sample from Slide 41:
CONCLUSION:
The ground work in brain gender identity is gene-directed and takes place by forming male and female hormone receptors in the brain before the gonads and hormones can influence them.
Some parts of the brain can therefore be defined as masculine or feminine
And 55:
Conclusion:
One cannot deny the profound effects of T, E2 and other steroids on genital differentiation in-utero or their effects on behavior from birth or the physical and mental cross gender changes caused by exogenous hormones. But identity is determined before and persists in spite of these effects.
Wow, its hard to tell what the real topic is today. there is alot of side nonsense going on.
I saw this earlier yesterday. The pictures are suspect. Just by that, she looks like a man and not one I would want to kiss. But then to each his own.
If this is a young lady, she needs a lot of makeup - weave, fake nails, fake eyelashes, colored contacts, fake boobs, fake ass and other injectable, implantables and doevers that females today are using to enhance the outside. I for one still believe true beauty is inside its just with this one I am still trying to find it.
@alicia banks-
Thanks for the link. Apparently my terminology is dated, at least according to the Intersex Society of North America. They recommend against the term "hermaphrodite" as far as humans are concerned.
most hermaphrodites are females who have a fully functional and often fertile penis in lieu of a clitoris...with a fully normal vagina underneath
they can impregnate and have menses etc...
the fear and ignorance surrounding this phenomenon fuels the sexist abuses and brutal traditions of fgm
ie
ignorant ancients who believed that ALL clitorises would grow into penises if they were uncut/not castrated etc...which led to rampant female genital mutilation/fgm which lingers globally today....even clandestinely so in the usa immigrant cultures
sexist men who fear female orgasms/sexual power in all women adore fgm as a tool of sexist control
see more on fgm:
http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/waris.htm
torture as tradition = torture
Alicia is our resident expert on abnormalities.
apoi
you are the only abmoramlity i know expertly herein
abnormalitypoi:
you are the only abnormality i know expertly herein
your incessantly abnormal posts herein prove that to be so...
It's OK, sugar-pie. I knew what you meant.
zimbel
you are welcome
i admire all of your intelligent and intellectual posts
thank you for not being a member of the proudly moronic hater posse herein
peace
ab
fn:
sorry
i am loading new software...
i was unable to delete my typo post to apoi
????
i will debug my pc asap
I'm not a part of the hater posse, Alicia. I just love you all the way down to your big hairy butt:)
apoi:
what a typically butch dl gay sexual fetish to flaunt herein...i see u boi
my smooth chocolate buttery skin is silky smooth to the touch...
as most feline leos i am a compulsive groomer/shaver too...
This post needs a lot more Firby...
Field... make her go away!!!!!!
I'm gone say this and I'm through with it.
I think it's a sad and terrible thing to send that child through something like this. She can't help the way she looks, whether people think she is pleasing to the eye or not. Pretty does not qualify anyone as a good person. Nor does their gender, sexual preferences, or vice versa in all I just mentioned, it's what in their heart because as a man thinketh so is he. In addition, Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Your heart is symbolic for your thoughts.
Nevertheless, this whole ordeal and what she is being put through just reminds me how ugly this world has become in respect to their fellow-man and that is really the sad part. Human beings destroying each other instead of embracing one another and accepting them as their fellow-human being. She might be an older teenager close to adulthood, but she is still a child in book. It's a lot of adults that act like children. That's why I like children because most of them tend to have more sense then some of these adults nowadays and they still have that innocence that has left adults a long times ago and been replaced by a bunch of garbage thinking.
I feel so much compassion for this young lady because she must be going through a very traumatic experience right now that will damage her self-esteem and linger with her for the rest of her life,and adults are the ones who will be responsible for that. Smh!
What a messed up world we live in!
I left out the part that pretty is the only qualifier for a fellow human being to be treated with dignity and respect either.
*isn't*
sorry about the error, but I typed that out too fast.
Nevertheless, this whole ordeal and what she is being put through just reminds me how ugly this world has become in respect to their fellow-man and that is really the sad part.
Actually this world hasn't become ugly, it has been ugly for some time. Humans have never had much respect for their fellow man. Especially when it comes to something like this. Humans, after all, are animals, and we often behave in an animalistic fashion. People who are too far outside of the norm can pay a high price, unfortunately.
Granny, I think the main issue we're dealing with here is not her looks, but her chromosones.
Now, there's an obvious reason we have both ladie's & men's sports. Let's take basketball for example. Most major men's college teams could whoop the living tar our of most WNBA teams. That's just the way it is. Now, if some guy decided to have his johnson chopped off, that still wouldn't change his male chromosones. Would you think it fair to let him/her compete in the WNBA?
If Tiger Woods had a sex change operation, could he join the women's tournament? He'd win every match.
You're going to have to draw the line somewhere, or else do away with separate women's & men's sports, and just make them all coed.
How fair is that going to be?
POI:
We're dealing with the chromosomes,really?
I'm not changing what I said, because underneath it all is what it's really about. And like I said before I'm through with it.
Damn Yall need to chill out about this. You all are going at each other like you're being tested instead of this young lady. I hope she passes the test and that's that.
Hi Field,
More on your man Bolt, second record breaker in a week:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/20/usain-bolt-world-record-athletics-200m
" Amarie said...
I hope she passes the test and that's that."
So do I.
APOI said... "Granny, I think the main issue we're dealing with here is not her looks, but her chromosomes."
What I would really like to know is did it really have to be such a public challenge? Could they, whoever is running the races, not have simply said that a challenge has been mounted regarding this race and that the results are not final and that they will be announced when the issue is resolved.
That poor young woman, with people knowing way too much and saying things like just "drop yer drawers." No privacy, no respect, no dignity.
OFF TOPIC:
I have definitely been looking at the comments section too long, the word verification words are beginning to look like real words. I am curious as to when some of them are going to enter the lexicon.
What about those Women Body Builder's! now those are Strange looking women!
Those women are for sure Women, but, they look Half Woman Half Man, Jesus! they lift those body weight's and then they turn out looking like, something God truly did not Create!
I pray that this young lady will take heed to what is being said about her! she is truly being Persecuted for not being Pretty! and that's a shame, some of you people are using every excuse in the book to keep from using the (U) WORD! to describe this innocent young lady!
Will you people give this poor young lady a break, she may not look like BYONCE, but, at least she can run fast! do you think BYONCE can run fast like that if someone was after her? No!
That is so sad. I would be so hurt if that were me.
You know what, this young lady has an a talented gift and because she doesn't look like a movie star, she is being held up for public torment, humiliation, degradation, and ridicule because of her looks. I wish a lot of y'all could see what I see. Nevertheless, this time, in this case, let me share what I see through my eyes about this young lady.
I see a child who has been tormented and teased about her looks practically all her natural born life. She cries herself to sleep at night many of times because of all the hurt and pain she feels. Sometimes she feels like isolating herself from people. At times she want to die and just end it all. She wonders sometimes if she is cursed, but through it all she tries to be strong, hide the deep hurt she feels inside, and ignore those ugly whispers and laughter she hears behind her back. Some haven't even been that kind to her and have voiced it openly, like they are doing now.
Although, now she is being made to feel like a freak in a circus and being probed through a public. microscopic eye. Adding insult to injury, now she is being put through a list of physical exams to verify that she is a girl and she is. That is how humiliating and degrading people are treating this child because of her looks. Nah, it's not about chromosomes. It's about how she looks, her deep voice, her athletic boyish build.
I knew a couple of girls like her, when I was growing up. They were just as much a female as I am. They just were born with a natural athletic ability. Yet, they dreamed the same dreams that all girls dream. Yup, puts me in the mind of the story of the ugly duckling, who in the end transforms into the beautiful swan in the end. A few of those masculine looking girls did do just that as a matter of fact.
I wouldn't be surprised if it should turn out that way in her case, and some of those males who torment her with their ugly remarks will be the first ones that tormented her and made fun of her be struck with a cupid's arrow.
To make matters worse, not many people are stepping up to the plate in her defense, which means they believe she is a man too. How traumatic that must be for her to have to go through such an awful experience of the whole world believing and thinking she is a man.
My prayers are with this child and I pray that God makes her enemies her footstool.
Amarie and POI:
"I hope she passes the test."
Your comment tells off on you. She will, but she shouldn't even be forced to go through a test. Strange how people are quick to rush to defend cruelty to animals, but when it comes to another human beings they hang them out to dry and join the bandwagon.
I'm saying in behalf of this child, God bless you both!
Call me a fool, but the jury is out. I'm from Atlanta and she sure does look like one of those tranies on Ashby(muscular build, big hands, deep voice, and masculine facial expressions). I'll wait for the results. There's something going on down there, even if she does come back positive woman.
Lemme see, aside from looking like Lisa Leslie's little brother, and Serena Williams when she was the ugly little sister with those beads in her hair, she looks female to me. But to suggest or cast "suspicion" because she kicked a bunch of White girls asses?
THAT'S RACIST!
I mean is it that White folks are fed up, and tired of losing? What's next, are they gonna test Jamaican world record holder Usian Bolt to see if he's a cheetah? I tell you what. Lets start testing those eastern European female athletes we see competing on the world stage. Yeah, I've seen some of those White chicks with uni-brows, hairy legs, thick mustaches and built like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Conan the Barbarian, but nobody ever says anything about testing them.
Listen Black people, we have to get together and stop this. This is scientific racism at it's finest. Yes, it's like that whole Bell Curve thing all over again; and, in Germany of all places; I guess they're still not over that whole Jesse Owens thing. If we don't stop this you know what's gonna happen? I have the sneaky suspicion that my melanin deficient cousins here in America will get the hint and start testing those sisters in the WNBA, and Jody Watley. And y'all know that shit would not be cool.
@Rippa
Why Jody Watley? Lol
And I was gonna mention Usain Bolt too. He broke the 200 meter record (19.19) are they gonna test to see if he's actually human or as you say a cheetah.
First, a disclaimer. I'm Intersexed. My body is neither wholly male nor wholly female.
I'm not proud of that. Not ashamed either. I'm glad I look mostly female, as that matches my personality, my gender identity. I'm a woman with an unusual congenital medical condition, that's all.
"Intersex" covers hundreds of different syndromes. From men and (rarely) women with 47xxy chromosomes instead of the usual 46xx for women and 46xy for men, all the way through to people with ambiguous genitalia, or none at all.
And some women with 46xy chromosomes have given birth, and some men with 46xx chromosomes have fathered children, so it's not simple.
Determining sex in such cases is like determining race. Everyone knows about Black and White, but if those are the only choices allowed, what are Koreans?
Here's some of the tests to distinguish "White" from "Black" in old Apartheid South Africa.
These tests included measurements of the nose, nostrils, and cheekbones, and an expert analysis of hair texture. The latter often included the ‘pencil test.’ It was thought that a white person’s hair is not so curly to hold a pencil, whereas a coloured person’s hair could. There were gradations of skin color to be measured in various places of the body including the fingernails and the eyelids; earlobes were squeezed to determine their degree of softness. (It was thought that Black person’s earlobes were softer than others.) Individuals challenging their racial classification before the board would also be asked what they had for breakfast (it was thought only blacks would eat mealie or cornmeal porridge), how they slept on a bed, and what sport they enjoyed (blacks were thought to favor soccer while coloured favored rugby).
Sex testing is just as inhuman, and just as scientifically dubious. You can divide 59 people out of 60 into either male or female, but for some of us, that's like arguing whether yellow is actually a shade of red or of blue.
@Monie: Didn't Jody Watley play in that movie The Crying Game? Just asking (LOL).
Granny sending you a big hug Rippa. You broke it down to the last letter in the alphabet. And you perceive and understand where this is all leading to.
Thank you Lord!
Field,
Off topic, but have you commented on James David Manning? I am hoping this is a joke, sort of like Stephen Colbert with a melanin boost. If it is not a joke, then I don't know what to say.
Check it out here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hFiab7fjak
Lol@Rippa No! Actually a guy played that role. I can't remember his name.
Monie,
His name is Jaye Davidson.
From IMDB:
"Jaye was born in Riverside, California in 1968 the son of a Ghanaian father and English mother. The family left for England when Jaye was 2 and a half. Jaye left school at 16 and had been alternately unemployed and doing odd jobs (running for a production company, working in a factory) ever since. Jaye had no real acting experience when discovered by a casting associate at a wrap party for Derek Jarman's Edward II. He was working as a fashion designer at that time and took the role for the money. He was cast to play Dil in The Crying Game (1992), which became a sleeper hit that shocked audience's worldwide and in 1992 it was nominated for seven Academy Awards, including Best Picture and Best Supporting Actor for Jaye. His overnight stardom earned him his next big role as the sun god Ra opposite James Spader and Kurt Russell in the 1994 blockbuster Stargate. Since his brush with movie fame, Jaye has spent his time doing big-name fashion shoots: Steven Meisel for Italian Vogue; Michael Roberts for Joseph; a GAP ad by Annie Leibowitz. He accompanied Kate Moss to the British Fashion Awards and in Paris at Valentino's jet-set party in honor of Sharon Stone, he accompanied Naomi Campbell and Christy Turlington."
Thanks@Gregory
@Monie: I dunno, but if that wasn't Jody Watley then Barack Obama is from Kenya (CTFU@me and my ig'nant self). Hell Jody Watley didn't look too different than that endrogenous brother Mickey Free who joined Shalamar.
@ Black Magic Woman
"How does her speed compare to male athletes?"
Most professional 800 runners are doing 1:45 or better. In HS (She's 18 right?) the top male runners usually go 1:50 or 1:49.
I think she is exceptionally fast for a woman her age (Most 18 year olds at the top of the ladder are running about 2:04 or so).I think the fact that she's so young has people in shock. It usually takes more time for middle distance runners (Think 800M 1500M races) to mature as opposed to the shorter sprints (Usain Bolt was running like 20.5 in the 200M when he was 15. Most boys that age are doing 22 to 23 seconds)which makes it even more surprising that she ran such a time.
I hope she is able to get through this ordeal. Just the fact that they're putting her on blast like that is horrible. They could have gone about it in a number of different ways.
Lol@Rippa That is SO WRONG! What do you have against Jody? I think she's a pretty woman. I love her video to Still A Thrill. I've put it up on my blog.
Did you and Jody have some sort of incident? Lol
Here is the Still A Thrill Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYZAnHWA_yU
I'll never forget how they tried to insinuate the same thing about Michelle Obama. They went from that to saying she looked like a monkey. Why because she was a darker skin woman. Had she been light skin and darn near white, nothing degrading would have been implied. Black is beautiful and it comes in all shades from tawny to ebony.
Thank you Granny, I have a story to tell.
My brother's wife killed herself last year, and she had Masculine Feature's, and when I say (STRONG)I mean (STRONG)!!!
Sharon was a tough Woman, but never the less, she was a Woman/ she had a (Masculine Build) she had Big Masculine Hand's and Big feet like a man! and she HATED IT!
Sharon was a wild woman, she ran all over my brother!!! and she loved to Fight! I think my brother was fearful of her, she ran the show!!
I saw my brother reduced down to a (four feet tall) man when his Relative's came around, he was afraid to speak to us when we had family gathering's, and the shame of this was/ my brother was a SIX FEET ELEVEN inch's TALL MAN/ and he weighted all most THREE HUNDRED POUND'S!!!
Well any way, they moved out of town, and once again, Sharon was in BATTLE with different with people! a FIGHT hear and a Knife there, it never seemed to end! it was alway's SOMETHING,
Well, Sharon was arrested one morning for Trespassing.
When she arrived at the JAIL HOUSE/ they were going to put her in with the MEN/ but, Sharon told them she was a WOMAN/ the POLICEMEN did not believe her!!they were in TOTAL SHOCKK!!!
Sharon had to go through a lot to convince the Police Officer's she was a Woman! and to this day I have no idea what she had to do,to prove she was a NATURAL BORN WOMAN and not a BIG HUSKY MAN, now, that's truly sad, I was told later by family member that, Sharon's feeling's were hurt, when the policemen just was set on calling her a MAN!
People this is a TRUE STORY with nothing added to it! so help me God!
iseeisee
@Granny:"I see a child who has been tormented and teased about her looks practically all her natural born life....She wonders sometimes if she is cursed, but through it all she tries to be strong, hide the deep hurt she feels inside, and ignore those ugly whispers and laughter she hears behind her back. Some haven't even been that kind to her and have voiced it openly, like they are doing now."
Granny, what you see in her sounds vaguely familiar. It reminds me of the plight of the black race in America.
Anonymous 9:00:
Amen!
rippa
serena and jody w have always been fine to me!
and they both get more gorgeous every year!
i see no racism in this
lots of sexism and gaybashing...but no racism
ie
masculine russian women are dogged the same way all the time
i went to grad school with a very masculine romanian student who was brilliant
every time she aced a test, the skinny dumb men who flunked their own tests dogged her verbally just as semenya is being dogged...
many white boys who tried to dupe wins have been busted too
see:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1207653/Womens-800m-gold-medal-favourite-Caster-Semenya-takes-gender-test-hours-World-Championship-race.html
@Rippa: "Listen Black people, we have to get together and stop this."
Are you serious? Since when have Blacks ever gotten together to stop anything for their own benefit? It is almost impossible...We are not that unified.
@Zoe Brain, thanks for your post. When I wrote about intersexed people, and pointed out that they used to be called hermaphrodites, I was doing the best I could on the subject. Your posting gave needed detail, i.e., that hermaphrodites are a subset of the intersexed.
I think the point to remember here is that the intersexed are no less human than anyone else. Their very existence makes plenty of people uncomfortable, and they often face huge challenges in life, one of which is a pressure to pick one or the other sex, frequently not feeling comfortable about it, and often not being accepted anyway.
I don't know what this person's gender status is, and as Zoe points out, when you look really closely there are some critical roadblocks to making a determination.
As Granny pointed out so poignantly, this is a highly talented human being who has worked hard to make something out of herself. Given the very real differences between male and female physiology, along with the fact that well over 99% of the human population is one or the other, the case does present legitimate questions and challenges for athletic authorities.
But it does not take away her humanity. I say "her," because even if she's intersexed she is living as a female and is entitled (in my view) to at least the pronoun. How the athletic authorities deal with it is another story, but I don't think she deserves to be treated as a circus freak or a standing joke.
Or, to put it differently, I really wonder how many of the men commenting in this thread, along with the one who started it, would have a ghost of a chance keeping up with her in a footrace. So at least give her that much credit, huh? As for me, I give her that, and more.
He look like a man!
Anonymous 9:18:
I hope that you are not of child-bearing age or your wife is either, nor your children or grandchildren, because out of your own heart you've cursed your own. SO BE IT!!!!!
Anonymous 9:15:
"Since when have Blacks ever gotten together to stop anything for their own benefit? It is almost impossible...We are not that unified."
I feel ya! But the whole thing is in a nutshell is they need to wake up and get unified, because that's one of the things holding them back as a people!!!
Thas a bro, bro.
For all the people who educated me. Thanks!
iseeisee, thanks for your story as well. Wow! Hey, truth is always stranger than fiction.
Ditto!
@ Granny, I believe she shouldn't have to take a test either, but since she has to, I do hope she passes. Once she does that, then I hope people let this issue drop and let that young lady live her life. Thanks and God Bless you too.
Um, I thought you were finished with this discussion at about 4:30 PM, Granny.
Let the tests show what they may, and if Semenya has male chromosones, ALL the girls who contested against her have a legitimate complaint.
INCLUDING the African (Kenyan) girl who came in second.
By the way, even if this person wasn't highly talented but just ordinary and living a quiet life trying to pay the bills and find some meaning and joy along the way, is that any reason for anyone to add to their troubles?
You know, it might be worth remembering that "No" in its various forms is the easiest word in the world, but that nothing good ever happened until someone stood up and said, even in a little way, "Yeah, I'll help."
A Person of Interest said...
Granny, I think the main issue we're dealing with here is not her looks, but her chromosones.
Now, there's an obvious reason we have both ladie's & men's sports. Let's take basketball for example. Most major men's college teams could whoop the living tar our of most WNBA teams. That's just the way it is. Now, if some guy decided to have his johnson chopped off, that still wouldn't change his male chromosones. Would you think it fair to let him/her compete in the WNBA?
If Tiger Woods had a sex change operation, could he join the women's tournament? He'd win every match.
You're going to have to draw the line somewhere, or else do away with separate women's & men's sports, and just make them all coed.
How fair is that going to be?
4:13 PM
OK, Grinder....I made this comment earlier. No one els wanted to address to points.....would you?
By the way, whoever that pussy anonn was, who didn't want Alicia on your ass, let me tell you, she secretly harbors an affiniation for the rude pecker, which I provide her.
So, consider yourself absolved.
A Person Of Interest:
"Um, I thought you were finished with this discussion at about 4:30 PM, Granny."
Evidently, I must have changed my mind, huh?
BTW, POI:
I bet you just praying that she is a male, huh? I hate to disapoint you but she is a girl.
All I have to say if she passes the test then there's nothing else to talk about but I do remember female African models that have that short cropped haircut and kind of a little more softer facial features. Field, I've been looking all over the net for an actual picture, your blog is the first place that has one. While some folks might cry racism, these test have been going on for a while so like I said before, if she passes the test, then we move on.
No, Ms. Granny...if you'd bother to come out of the oxygen tent, and scroll up a bit further, you'd see that my wishes were to see Ms. Semenya absolved.
I am queer, not trans, but I posted a few thoughts over at my blog Queers Against Obama if you are interested!
Woman, man or a little bit of both? How deciding Caster Semenya's gender is more complex than you might think
By Michael Hanlon, Science Editor
Last updated at 8:59 AM on 21st August 2009
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1208012/Woman-man-little-bit-How-deciding-Caster-Semenyas-gender-complex-think.html#ixzz0Op15wxOh
"Are you serious? Since when have Blacks ever gotten together to stop anything for their own benefit? It is almost impossible...We are not that unified."
I guess yall missed that Civil Rights Movement thang..
"Granny, what you see in her sounds vaguely familiar. It reminds me of the plight of the black race in America."
What is your problem Anonymous?
I believe that you are projecting your own intense self-loathing on the community at large.
Take my word for it, a lots of us black folks love who and what we are.
Negroes like you who wallow in negativity and bitterness are the real problem.
apoi:
why is it always the "pecker"less men like you who stupidly assume that all women want penises that even you yourselves never have???
gaybashing sexist fools like you see all penises as magic wands...that mythical madness makes you fear the magic tricks of gay men whom you lust for on the DL...
___
re: queer
i hate that word
it is always a slur
akin to nigger
queer = strange
i am normal and lesbian
like all of the normal homos normally created in living species
i also hate the words "fair-skinned"
for the very same reasons...
it is despicably self loathing/white supremacist
fair is not a color
and black skin is not unfair...
@Zoe Brain-
1) Do you have an opinion on sex-segregated sports?
2) I'd use Green (instead of Yellow) in your example; from the perspective of human vision, Yellow is a roughly 50/50 Red/Green mixture.
I think this girl's in for a big surprise pretty soon. Hope she can handle it (I sure couldn't).
May be if she wore bright red-orange shoes people wouldn't notice "the ambiguity".
more info today on similar wm hoaxers here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1208012/Woman-man-little-bit-How-deciding-Caster-Semenyas-gender-complex-think.html
She is a woman no doubt. I could think of several others who might really qualify for a gender test.
No names though.
Hey Field, I have nominated you for the Triple Award.
Check it out here: http://www.latonyabynum.com/2009/08/wwwlatonyabynumcom-recieves-triple.html. For your bloggy savvyness!
Elian, thanks for checking in. I am sure your blog will have some good perspective on this.
"I think this girl's in for a big surprise pretty soon. Hope she can handle it (I sure couldn't)."
I sure hope she isn't.
'"Are you serious? Since when have Blacks ever gotten together to stop anything for their own benefit? It is almost impossible...We are not that unified."
I guess yall missed that Civil Rights Movement thang.."
US, that was funny. :)
Thanks for the love La Tonya!
@Zoe Brain
Thank you for the information. My niece was born with congenital adrenal hyperplasia and "ambiguous" genitalia as a result. Surgery was done on her as an infant to make the adults feel better.
How pissed must she be to know that a bunch of squeamish adults reduced the size of her clitoris to make themselves more comfortable? Damn!
The book "Middlesex" really opened my eyes to the reality that the male/female dichotomy doesn't tell the whole story.
Anyway, thanks for your insight.
@Zimbel - yes I do have an opinion on sex-segregated sports. We need a level playing field, but only so far. For example, people of East African ancestry have an obvious advantage in running events, when 90% or more of the finalists are of that genetic heritage. But that doesn't mean they should be banned!
By the way, as regards transsexuals - after 2 years of hormone treatment, the advantages are more than balanced by the disadvantages. If Tiger Woods got a "sex change", 2 years later, Tigra would be able to compete in a Ladies Pro Golf competition - and would probably win, not because of non-existent physical advantages, but because of talent.
@Race_Traitoress - yes, the main goals of IS advocacy groups are twofold: to prevent involuntary and unnecessary surgery on those who can't give consent, and to permit necessary surgery for those who can and do consent.
I'm sorry for your niece. I wish I could say she was an exceptional case, but alas she's not. There are support groups that may help her. Personally, I'd be sorely tempted to do some surgical trimming of my own, on the well-meaning butchers who performed genital mutilation on her.
*sigh* Not really. I just want them to stop, so I don't have to help pick up the pieces. Again.
Bro. Field,
One in 10,000 children are born as "hermaphrodites....male and female sex organs." Some are more male than female (and vice versa), but it's surgically simpler to remove a penis, and leave or "create" a vagina-like sex canal.
As far a sex testing is concerned, they would have looked to see if the athlete had an extra X or Y sex chromosome. This doesn't always indicate that a person was born a hermaphrodite, but practically all hermaphrodites have more than the simple XX (female) or XY (male) composition.
Thus, a hermaphrodite, as an adult, who had mostly male inclinations, but was surgically made into a female, would definitely have an advantage in sports.
One last note.
About the Adam's Apple, breast development, hormone therapy is used (sometimes unsuccessfully) to address these issues.
If he/she is from South Africa and had a sex change operation, wouldn't SOMEONE know?
If he/she could afford a sex change operation, couldn't he/she also afford cosmetic surgery?-
"Look, mama! Ugly Joe is running in a race! Why is Ugly Joe running with de women??!"
To get he/she's six-pack, biceps and world-class speed, I might have my ding-a-ling whacked off!!
The truth is that most of us were never taught that gender is more than a man and a woman. There is a continuum across the man/woman polarity. There is actually more then two sexes. There are people who have XY chromosomes, but look totally like woman. Until people are taught about the variation in human gender possibilities, prejudice base on sexual profiles will exist. The problem is not whether Semenya is a woman or a man, the problem is our either/or thinking. People should be judged by the content of there characters and not by the package they were created in.
It that big old adam apple that gave him away. Oh wait she doesn't have one, even men who had sex change can't get their adams apple removed, yet. Just a bunch of women who lost just can't accept it.
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