I see his O ness was doing his best James Brown imitation today as he said "please, please, please" to dumbocratic members of congress while asking them to vote for this historic health care reform bill. Now, I must admit, I am no wonk when it comes to these things. I hate reading voluminous documents, -I am a trial lawyer, not a corporate one- and I sure as hell hate the byzantine way in which folks in Washington legislate. What I do know is that I want this health care reform bill to pass, because I have a fundamental belief in every citizen having the right to have affordable health care. And I really do believe that insurance companies care more about profit margins than they do people. And, unlike what conservatives and their minions would have you believe, I believe that more government is actually a good thing. I elected them, they use my money to do things, and they provide services that I would rather not do without.
Now, having said all of that, someone sent me an e-mail today that has me a little troubled. I am blogging about it because I am hoping that some of you folks -who might have actually read all of the bill- who are smart enough to have the goods on how things really work in Washington, can help me to understand the following:
"Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.
In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”
Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:
“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1] - - - - - - - - - -
“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2] - - - - - - - - - -
“Criminal penalties Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual: • Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]
When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.
“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates"
Now I know that the rethugs are getting desperate, and that they are going to spin this thing in a way most unfavorable to Pelosi and company. But if it is a fact that this provision is in Pelosi's bill, and this portion of the bill is not amended in the Senate, it would be very troubling for the kid. "$250,000 in fines and five years in prison is a bit much. I love the government except when they are being draconian on everyday people. Fines? Maybe. Prison? No.
Get at me folks and let me know what you think of this.
I know what I think, but then again I am not as smart as some of you when it comes to this stuff.
*h/t Hugh O.
82 comments:
The mandate is a tax if you don't buy health insurance. I'm sure you won't be shocked to know that people get big fines and go to jail for willfully evading taxes all the time. They can also be thrown out of their house. People who can't afford insurance get a subsidy. People who refuse to pay their taxes or insurance bill face sanctions. That's nothing new.
I remember reading about the "mandate" and proposed fines levied back when Baucus brought his bill to the table. Umm, the fines were no where near the amount stated above.
And actually, it was targeted to get lower income people to purchase insurance assuming that it would be "affordable" in one of those exchanges.
Frankly, I think the mandate is bullshit, and probably unconstitutional. That said, I could see the spin to come should this info above be true.
Remember that post about Democrats not caring about freedom that you wrote? You mocked the idea of course. When grilling a bird in NYC is outlawed and not having health insurance is outlawed, what's up?
Nancy Pelosi should have been made to resign at the outset of Obama's administration.
The last hang up today has to do with some Democrats negotiation with the Catholic Bishops and introducing an amendment about the public funding abortion. This would affect private insurers. I don't think there is a public option in the works.
That rumor about going to jail has been going on for some time. It would hard to tell whats in the bill from a layman's point of view.
I think the bill should go up in flames. Micromanaging to the n-th degree. A patient bill of rights should be as long as the Constitution. Does it take 4000 pages to say what an insurance company cannot do? Amend Medicare as your public option. Simple, Simple, Simple.
all the bill says is refer to the IRS code when there is a failure to get insurance.
the law was written for tax scofflaws. probably someone will offer an amendment clarifying this.
it's a red herring. there's lots in the bill to help people get insurance, so the thinking is few people would be subject to a penalty anyway.
here's the actual text from HR 3962
SEC. 401. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.
For an individual's responsibility to obtain acceptable coverage, see section 59B of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (as added by section 501 of this Act).
I thought that the public funding of abortion was in the bill as leverage. I had no idea they were serious. If so then whoever put it in the bill should go down and go down hard. With all of the Republicans and the Blue Dog Democrats there was no way that public funding of abortion was going to end up in the final bill.
Co-sign with Hathor about Medicare for all. Forget all of the socialized medicine rhetoric.
@Hathor,"Nancy Pelosi should have been made to resign at the outset of Obama's administration. "
I think so too, but I would like to hear more about why you think that?
"The mandate is a tax if you don't buy health insurance. I'm sure you won't be shocked to know that people get big fines and go to jail for willfully evading taxes all the time. They can also be thrown out of their house. People who can't afford insurance get a subsidy. People who refuse to pay their taxes or insurance bill face sanctions. That's nothing new."
So who enforces this, the IRS? And will it be a part of the tax code?
"the law was written for tax scofflaws. probably someone will offer an amendment clarifying this."
Let's hope so.
I will admit, sometimes my libertarian side clashes with my socialist side. :)
What's a poor FN to do?
Kathy,
The day after Obama won the election, she made a statement as to how he should govern.
She botched up the stimulus package by not keeping the Democrats in line and keeping them on task. Among many other contentious acts, she allowed this amendment to be added at the last minute knowing full well it is going to be controversial and also knowing that the President would be coming to Congress that morning to speed the process.
The bill just passed.
The bill just passed the House 220 - 215. One Republican (probably Joseph Cahn from LA) voted for it.
As for the GOP: Waah, waah, waah.
They had 12 years in power (six with both Congress and the WH) to provide universal health care, fix Social Security, fully fund Medicare & Medicaid, regulate the financial sector, provide for universal health care, and/or balance the budget.
They did none of it.
So, they can shut their pieholes and let some adults go to work.
"The bill just passed."
Well, there you have it. Pelosi did a splendid job. Anymore comments Hathor?
If insurance is going to be so affordable, why are so many legislative threats necessary in order to make everyone purchase it? If it's truly universal, shouldn't we just need an SSN card and I.D. system? This is very troubling to me. In addition to taxing higher income folks, why not tax useless things that cause bad health? This would in essence be using taxes to effectively enact offsetting effects of irresponsible personal health choices. Okay, let me read this thing again.
Sorry for the earlier misspelling .
The Republican who voted for the Health Care Bill was Ahn "Joseph" Cao from Louisiana. He won William Jefferson's seat last year in a runoff - the same district that voted 75% for President Obama.
It should be interesting to see the heat he catches from other Republicans.
Is the bill online? I'd like to read it before I make any prejudgments. because the health insurance industry and GOP have fought it with falsehoods from the very beginning. They haven't stopped fighting against it yet. In fact, now the fight will get even worse and tougher. Don't think for one minute that they spent all that money fighting against it for nothing.
In addition, Durbin told the American people that the Congress has been brought and sold. Just recently, Grayson told us basically the same thing. So, I don't put nothing pass either side because you don't know who all on Capitol Hill are getting their palms greased with money. However, I got a feeling a whirlwind is getting ready to blow up on that hill and air out corruption. It's time for some fresh air and the staleness to stop stagnated it.
*stagnating*
Will 2.5% of a person's yearly income be paid quarterly, monthly, weekly....deducted from income...what about private vs. retirement income...what about capital gains income by those making over 250 G vs. "regular" investors..........we're going to have problems :0)
Don't you all already pay social security, federal and state income taxes? Sales tax? you get things in return: roads, schools, firefighters, a few wars. Oh, you say I can't opt out of paying for wars? WTF?
Drudge, WND distort health care bill to fearmonger about cost of insurance, possibility of jail time ~~Media Matters~~
http://mediamatters.org/research/200911070007
BTW, momo, it's good to see you. I missed you.
Night everyone.
Why would the REPUBLICAN'S come out with this STUFF at the last minute? don't we know these people by now? they will twist and turn thing's around and make it look as if, they really CARE about NEEDY people!
Nancy Pelosi is NOT perfect! but, I tell you what, she is a Wealthy White Woman! she can be on a CRUISE with her Husband, but, yet she is walking the floor of Congress, trying to FIGHT for POOR FOLK'S! compare her to all of those VICIOUS Republican women!
I don't know, what go's on behind closed door's in Washington, but, I'm sure, it was not easy to get that BILL PASSED! and if that Bill will make a Poor person's life a little easier, I say,(THANK YOU, LORD) I could careless about the deal's behind the scene! I CARE about POOR PEOPLE!
This was a VICTORY for the President! he has earned it! he has been treated like a DOG! he was Smeared beyond measure! and all of this, because he wanted to PASS a HEALTH CARE BILL to help AMERICAN'S! I thought a Good Leader, was suppose to look after the people! and is President Obama trying to do, just that?
iseeisee
Field, as usual the Rethugs are lying again. There is nothing in the bill about "civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years." You can read the bill yourself here:(big PDF)
On page 296 it simply says that those who do not fulfill their obligation to buy insurance will be taxed up to 2.5% of income, but not more than the cost of the average insurance plan. It is just an amendment to the IRS Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the IRS Code of 1986. The Rethugs simply extrapolate from the IRS's ability to prosecute any other tax evasion crime. There is nothing in the bill itself about enforcement, civil penalties or jail. It is just another IRS tax.
The JCT letter you posted is just a generalized description of what the IRS can do for any willful evasion of federal income taxes. It has nothing in particular to do with the health bill. Don't tell me you let the Rethugs snooker you by just quoting the scary parts of the 1986 IRS tax code.
The reason for the mandate is that if we promise everyone insurance then everyone must promise to pay their fair share for it. The bill includes lots of subsidies for those who can't afford it and some hardship exemptions.
1,990 pages of HR 3962. Ho-lee Christmas!
And the IRS gets another arm-lock on your paycheck? (What about Fair Tax and abolishing the income tax, eh?)
This thing really needs some straight interpretation, i.e., no spin. I'm outta my league here.
I think that the federal mandate to purchase insurance is unconstitutional under the 10th Amendment.
I don't think the feds have any business telling people that they MUST purchase an item from a private party.
What gives the federal government this right?
There are other reasons that the bill is bad from a more conventionally liberal point of view, such as the restrictions on abortion or a public option that is designed to cost MORE than private insurance, but liberal/conservative whatever your politics may be I think a citizen should be concerned about mandates to buy a product that you may not want or need.
The bill is also paid for in part by slashing Medicare spending. Medicare is NOT where the waste is in government; try "Defense".
And as far as I can tell there's nothing in the bill which would prevent insurance companies from raising premiums-as long as they did so for everyone.
"On page 296 it simply says that those who do not fulfill their obligation to buy insurance will be taxed up to 2.5% of income.."
Wow. An OBLIGATION to buy insurance.
See that's just it.
So if, for whatever reason I DON'T buy insurance, what happens? Well then they tax me. And if I decide not to pay that tax?
Well as a Mafia thug might say "That's a road you don't want to go down, my friend"..
At a time when unemployment is over 10%, why is so-called "health care reform" the critical issue?
The more people that don't have a job also means more people don't have insurance. How is that not critical?
Thank you Anon. 2:30AM, I will read that link. Shady_Grady, I feel some of your concerns as well.
I tell ya, my two sides are clashing on this one. Still, I am glad that congress got something passed. Let's see what kind of bill leaves the Senate.
BTW Cal Soldier, you are spot on about that congressman from "the boot".
Co-sign with Granny about momo.
The more people that don't have a job also means more people don't have insurance. How is that not critical?
Most people that have a job have insurance. It's more important to have a job. The rising unemployment rate should be Obama's top priority.
In addition, even under Keynesian theory, raising taxes during a recession is not an expansionary move. This bill, if adopted in its current incarnation would not give incentives to business to hire people, much the opposite.
Per CBO, a family of four earning $102,100 would have to pay $15,000 premium in addition to roughly $5000 in out of pocket costs. That's 20% of pre-tax income. That's something to think about.
Again, why not have a real public option? Just open up Medicare to everyone (plus cost).
This is a gift to the insurance industry dressed up in progressive drag.
I wish I had had the foresight to own a business in which my customers are compelled to purchase my product, whether they want it or not.
Good Morning Field Negro:
I don't believe anything the Repugs say. Have you actually read the bill to see whether people can be arrested if they do not get insurance?
If you can point out what the bill actually says, then I will believe my eyes.
Unfortunately, I doubt this bill will pass the Senate, where there are a lot of scared-as-hell Democrats lurking out. We'll see.
Please keep your fingers crossed!!
"Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI)..."
Field, here's an easy way to tell in the future if something is bullshit or not. Anything coming from someone with an "R" next to their name is 100 percent certifiable bullshit, without exception. This will save you and us time in the future. As soon as you see the R you can stop reading right there and move on.
Yup, I think it's a crock, too, FN.
The mandate is the equivalent of paying taxes. People try to question the constitutionality of taxes and perhaps they have a constitutional point. But the bottom line is that we couldn't manage cooperative ventures -- particularly insurance where the "pool" has to be big enough to make it fair and affordable -- unless everyone contribute.
As for "having a job," I've been one of those who, as a writer and artist,traveled a good deal and lived in other countries. When I came back to the US, the only health insurance I could get was a not-Cadillac-but-Tracker policy as a member of an arts organization. I was damn lucky to get even that and had to search for it.
Many self-employed people are out in the cold. When insurance is discussed, people tend to forget that not every responsible, working citizen is employed by a company offering insurance.
BTW: If anyone wants to go after Obama and the Dems, check out what they're doing for financial institutions. That's where the real stench is.
only a gullible moron thinks that the lower income people will not get hammered under this bill. And by the way, the 'mandate' is the one aspect of this bill that is talked about the least - hardly at all so far, in fact. The idea that insurance for the poor will be subsidized is laughable. By the time the bill gets signed there will be hardly any subsidy at all - only mandates and punishments.
Lots of people will rightly figure that they'll be better off going on welfare than keeping their low paying jobs and paying this extortion. What a crock.
As usual, money gets forcefully taken from the poor. Meanwhile, lots of money will now be going to people who are buying their *second* home. Way to go. Just like when lots of money went to people buying new cars, while the used car buyers were left on their own.
another Obama lie: people are already forced to buy car insurance on themselves, so they should be forced to buy health insurance on themselves.
Even field knows that in PA you only have to buy insurance that covers the other guy, not yourself. Most states are probably similar.
the next time that you drive past a house and see roofers working their butts off, think about the idiot that stated in this thread that most employed have health insurance which is paid by the company. There are countless other examples, countless.
there will be more damage done to the lower classes by this bill than can be imagined.
But bigots like GrannyStandingUpForPruneJuice are only guided by their bigotry to care about any facts.
The surtax on the top.5% of the population ($500K indiv, $1 million, family) is what will get you jail time if you don't pay. As someone else has pointed out, not paying your taxes has always had pretty heavy penalties in the States. The GOP is spinning this for all they're worth, inflating and embroidering it. It is nonsense, of course. The surtax is not even applicable to most people. The penalties presume a backlash by the insanely rich against paying for the subsidization of health care for the poor.
I am amused at the outrage of those who will pay the surtax... those making 500K or more.... The screaming about this as though EVERYONE will have to do this. ha! Don't you morons remember that in 2008 we had an election where we agreed that we were sick and tired of the masses getting poorer and the few getting richer, and there needed to be some fairness in who paid taxes and how much? And who are these idiots defending the rich? PLEASE!! When will you stop defending the rich, (secretly thinking someday that will be you, so hey, you think you are defending your future). Get off your lottery dreams and join the rest of us who make and will always make less than $500k and are fine with that. Working for the interests of the economic majority and not the few and the corporations is the way to create fairness and healthcare for all!
I nominate Rep Artur Davis (Dem- Ala) for House Negro. Why? Voting against the Health Reform Bill because he want the white folks in Alabama to elect him Governor.
All I gotta say is that I voted for McCain...............
and tort reform!!!
And re-work medicare or the health plan members of congress have. That should be a good start.
http://www.queerty.com/robert-bellamy-jr-bashed-2-guys-because-god-made-me-20091106/
all you fags will just love this one
Well, I like the fact that this plan calls for exchanges-or marketplaces- where we can compare coverage rates. I like the fact that young adults can remain on their parent's coverage until they are at least 27.I like the fact that lower and middle income folks can get coverage on the fed's dime. I love the fact that insurance companies cannot limit coverage because of pre-existing conditions. And, I like the idea of expanding Medicaid more people.
h/t to my local paper for making this damn bill easier for me to understand.
Fly, why exactly do you want tort reform? If a doctor or anyone else screws up shouldn't he or she be made accountable?
blackinalabama, I feel you. My man Artur has some splaining to do. :(
fn:
the insurance co's ARE running this hoax!
Obama wants to ration health care by instituting a "global payments" system in place of the current fee-for-service one that reimburses for each visit or procedure. It assures expensive services would be limited or denied, outpatient treatment and drugs will substitute for many surgeries, and full coverage will only be available for higher fees or expensive supplemental insurance premiums.
Obamacare is reactionary and class-based. It's industry-friendly at the expense of real reform. It assures affluent households top-flight care, others only as much as they can afford, and imposes fines on people too poor to buy coverage, so whatever plan is imposed on them will be inadequate when they need it most because current ones are designed to fail. It subordinates an essential needs to bottom-line considerations and leaves a broken system in place.
Obamacare is to health care reform what No Child Left Behind is to educating the nation's youths in for-profit schools; what Operation Iraqi Freedom is to liberating an occupied people; what Operation Enduring Freedom is to bringing democracy to Afghanistan; and what the Global War on Terror is to peace and good will.
It's a scheme to ration health care, enrich corporate providers, and leave a broken system in place. It's a patchwork idea to repackage failure and claim success. It's a corrupted way to sacrifice real needs on the alter of marketplace medicine by doing too little and leaving growing millions out in the cold, on their own, and at the mercy of for-profit predators. The solution is everybody in, nobody out under a universal, single-payer system. It's time has come, and no one should accept anything less or politicians who won't provide it.
http://www.rense.com/general87/obstacle.htm
___
and yes
this jail bs is true:
http://www.infowars.com/pelosi-buy-a-15000-policy-or-go-to-jail/
___
obamacare = doom
obama = hoax
sleeping sheeple = dead already
hey fly!
ditto
EVERY day i am proudER that i voted for hillary!
ps:
as taxes rise
as more are jobless
as more employers dump group insurance
ALL of us will suffer under the LESSER quality and increased costs of obamacare...jobless or not
only the rich will be able to pay away their pain
field negro said...
Fly, why exactly do you want tort reform? If a doctor or anyone else screws up shouldn't he or she be made accountable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Field, tort refrom is a LOT more complicated than this and you know it!
Situation: 15 year diabetic comes to doctor's office complaining of tingling in one his toes. And he had NEVER in his 15 years of being diagnosed a diabetic, taken his insulin when he should, he's 50 pounds overweight, he NEVER exercises, and loves sweets.
The doctor determines that his toe needs to be amputated (because the tingling the patient had was actually more like a blackish, bluish bruise that was layers deep).
While in the operating table, the 52 year old diabetic has a stroke on the table, and after 3 days on life support, his family pulls the plug.
6 months later, his family decides to sue the doctor for medical malpractice (the doc should have known the patient was at high risk for a stroke, right?) And the Doctor's insurance company decides to settle the case with the family out of court.
A doctor in this situation is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Leave the toe "on" and the patient dies of gangreene. Risk the surgery, and the patient dies of a cardiovascular disease. Sure, this is a simplyfied case, but the end result is the same, the patient is dead, doctor's career will NEVER be the same and the Lawyers get rich.
Now FN, you want to why we NEED tort reform? Bullshit cases like these fill our courts everyday and result in millions of dollars in awards and for what? A hard headed diabetic?
TORT REFORM!!!!!
Hathor,
Thanks so much for your answer, I know there have been big problems with the stimulus money, I didn't know if she had anything to do with it.
Fly,
I always thought that juries were more likely to look at doctors as little gods, doctors can do a lot of horrible things and still keep practicing medicine.
Also, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the doctor who treats you when faced with serious illness can be the deciding factor in whether or not you survive. It does matter whether you get a good doctor or not.
Doctors get away with far too much and charge ridiculous fees, many doctors take on too many patients, just to make more and more money, while their "patients" sit out in their waiting rooms all day long.
How many doctors prescribe drugs just so they can make a profit in their stock market investments, or get kick backs from the peddlers with their kit bags?
Doctors do not police themselves, when;s the last time doctors got together and stood up against a lousy one who is in their own practice?
Why does the medical industry not seem to care about the fact that, all things being equal, PoC are more likely to die, get bad treatment, get sent home with no treatment, shouldn't that matter?
I think just the opposite, the courtrooms should be filled with cases against all the lousy treatment people receive, then maybe we would see more responsible medicine.
The other thing you have to ask, why is it that medical school is so competitive, all kinds of people who would love to go to medical school, but can't get in, yet we all have to wait in long lines forever to get treatment?
Maybe they know that they make more money that way? Keep things to themselves? Hmm.
This is exactly why I just LOVE whites!!!
Ditto!
Not fly- you are a (HNIC) scientist?
Would the (HNIC) happen to stand for house negro in cahoots?
I see steppin' and fetchitt is back!
Kathy, 90% of your points need to be made to folks in the insurance industry, followed by malpractice attorneys.
90% of a persons health is related to THEIR decisions about what they eat, how much they eat, and how much they exercise. Yet people want to blame Doctors when they have a bad medical outcome? What kind of outcome do you think you're going to have if you don't care of yourself?
No other profession in the world has this VERY unrealistic requirement of doing your job 100% correct all the time. Why should doctors be held to a different standaard when at the end of the day, no one is perfect? And for those is want to take the ignorant route about what I mean here, I'm not talking about the Doctor who cuts off the wrong foot. I'm talking about the Doctor in the ER in sees a comatose patient needing an antibiotic in the ER, and gives them Penecillian which is standard treatment, not knowing they had an allerigic reaction to penecillin because the pateint didnt bother to wear a medical alert bracelet and couldn't tell the doctor they were allergic to penicillin
I can't believe you actually printed this tripe from the GOP spinsquad, aka Fox News. I thought you had more sense than this FN.
I imagine a person would have to have the self-esteem of an ant to take on some else's username and make posts talking shit to others.
If I were you, I'd just put myself out of my own misery because trust me, I doubt you'll be missed, LOL :)
Fly-"I imagine a person would have to have the self-esteem of an ant to take on some else's username and make posts talking shit to others."
I am glad you didn't fall for that imposter's comments. I think you overrated their level of self-esteem. An ant has a lot more self-esteem. I am sure ab will have something to say tomorrow about this scumbag.
ALL assnons are morons
and proud of it
they are hopelessly devoid of anything relevant to contribute to any convo...
but
WHERE ARE ALL OF THOSE SPORADICALLY BLIND BLOG POLICE TELLING THEM TO BE NICE AND HONEST ETC?????
???????????????????????????????????
fly:
wow
u r gorgeous!
love the new photo
i notice these illiterate trifling ugly assnons are still invisible and playing with furbies etc...too gruesome and cowardly to show their own eyes/faces etc
shame!!!!!!!
the rense website is full of shit.
there are no global payments in the bill. i recommend you read it.
Shut up, because nobody wants to see your cherry bomb eyes.
You look like the cat from itchy and scratchy!
ab-"WHERE ARE ALL OF THOSE SPORADICALLY BLIND BLOG POLICE TELLING THEM TO BE NICE AND HONEST ETC?????"
Those biased jerks are no where to be found when it is happening to you. Just goes to show what hypocrites they are! btw, not all anons are assholes. I have supported you for some time when no other anon has.
PSYCHE!!! I'll never support you you fat hellacious bitch!
anon10:57p "PSYCHE!!! I'll never support you you fat hellacious bitch!"
You are a sick psycho, and everyone knows who you are. Yu are pathological liar with a devious mind.
Field, I love the Picture Word Association. Two cats would have been better.
anon:
thanks
i know many of you are cool
and i never call you anons
assnons!
the assnons know who they are
___
assnons:
each time you sick twisted envious haters attack my uniquely gorgeous and sexy eyes
i know just how beautiful they are...
you invest way too much effort into
attacking them...
it exposes your envy and insanity
thanks for the kudos!!!
___
mareallyilliterate:
jeff rense is a veteran media warrior
you are unfit to even "read"
his blogs/tune into his shows
and IT SHOWS that he is an absolute stranger to anti-intellectual morons like you!!!
Field,
Is it too late to have you fix that link you titled
[of this]??
I can not get to the story it is supposed to guide me to.
Aloha from Makaii
P.S when are you visiting on Maui? You are always welcome here.
Makaii, you got it! I have corrected that link. Thanks again for looking out.
The people asked for universal health care. Obama's people responded by forcing folks who couldn't afford it in the first place to buy private insurance under penalty of the law.
I don't need to read 1,900 pages of legalese (that appearantly even the lawyers amongst us haven't the time or patience to do) to know it's bullshit.
We'll be back at it in a few years when it's becomes more obvious how messed up the whole thing is.
Field,
Thanks for the fix on that link, now that I've read that page.
This whole thing doesn't pass the "smell" test. I'm hoping the factcheck.org takes a look at this but they have kept way too busy of late.
BTW, Charlie Rangel is Chair of that committee and John Lewis serves as well. I'm sure they have their own views and troubles as well with the hefty mess of this Health Care bill. In fact with all Charlie's troubles I'm surprised you haven't written about him lately or placed him in your sidebar when appropriate.
Mahalo
from Makaii
Field,
I found a story on Fact check now.
Here's the URL
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/rnc-tax-attack-goes-too-far/
Aloha from Makaii
anon:
ditto!!!!
some of the assnons are so schizo and obsessed with me that they actually engage several of their own personalities to slur me in stereo...
it no longer suffices them just to be their own fake hater cheerleaders herein
NOW
they try to cancel out anons by faking the anons' personalities too!!!
it is like
invasion of the body snatchers
meets
hackers over the cuckoo'c nest
tragic!!!
It will be different when we try the same thing:
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssHealthcareNews/idUSLA55961120090610
Britain's health service "facing funding crisis"
LONDON, June 10 (Reuters) - Britain's state health service is facing the biggest financial squeeze in its 60-year history, a report said on Wednesday, posing a stark challenge for the next government.
The costs of fighting recession and rescuing stricken banks will send Britain's budget's deficit soaring to 12 percent of GDP this year and the national debt is ballooning, but no political party has yet spelt out the impact on public services. A report by managers of the National Health Service (NHS) said recession and rising costs will squeeze its budget by 15 billion pounds ($25 billion) in the five years from 2011, leading to "across the board" cuts in jobs and medical services and a possible cap on spending on new drugs.
The report said the very existence of the NHS -- which with more than 1.5 million staff is Europe's biggest employer -- could be under threat.
"History suggests that failing to deal with the spending squeeze will lead to problems large enough to call the whole NHS into question," it said. "We cannot assume it will survive."
The quality and funding of the health service are always a top priority for British voters. Prime Minister Gordon Brown's Labour government, which badly trails the Conservatives in opinion polls, must call the next election by June 2010.
Thanks AB! You know I have to keep it fly for all my haters out there!
[quote]Co-sign with Hathor about Medicare for all. Forget all of the socialized medicine rhetoric[/quote]
Rogue-DEM-Trick:
* Medicare and Social Security were originally for retired people who have paid their way through society and deserve to rest at the end of their lives.
* SCHIP was crafted for poor children at the BEGINNING of their lives who's families were not poor enough for Medicaid but not substantial enough for private insurance.
* Medicaid was crafted for for people who are in the middle of their lives that are too POOR to care for their own selves.
WHY THE HELL do you see it as a progressive step forward to have ALL AMERICANS on the government dole?
Isn't this really an attempt to MASK the gap between some people's desired STANDARD OF LIVING and the productivity of their city/community/individual circumstance?
You all don't WANT "Single Payer Helath Care" as your right. You NEED Single Payer Health care because you are tacitly acknowledging that your desired standard of living is beyond your present means.
[quote]We'll be back at it in a few years when it's becomes more obvious how messed up the whole thing is[/quote]
false1:
I disagree with you on this one.
You only need to look toward the UK to see what the deal is.
When the national government gets into a fiscal bind they simply put the squeeze on health care entitlements.
The scheme is to have Americans pay more of our money into the central temple and use these funds to keep the entire Ponzi scheme going.
If you are a national politician and you see:
* Medicare going insolvent by 2020
* Social Security going insolvent by 2035 to 2042
What would you do? CUT SPENDING?
NO - you use people like Filled Negro who have pitchforks at the gates. You work out a scheme to have MORE PEOPLE SENDING YOU MONEY INTO THE TEMPLE.
The same government that RAIDED THE POT OF MONEY called Social Security and replaced the money with an "IOU" so they can keep spending now seeks to make promises about health care for all.
What do you think they are going to do with this new massive stream of money? GET FRUGAL?
Your taxes WILL be going up. Trust me.
First they get you hooked on the spending. THEN they raise taxes with the theory that the loyal voters receiving a net increase in resources would NEVER willingly vote to cut back their daily portions.
The Wall Street trader's greed was stopped by a market collapse.
The greed of the individual "rank and file" "American citizen union" member will be derailed by the fiscal collapse of the US government.
For the Filled Negro types the only logical question must be: WHAT DID YOU DO TO PREPARE YOUR PEOPLE once they had their consumer demands fulfilled and SHOULD HAVE BEEN building up their competencies?
Those who grew most dependent will be hurt the most.
As repeatedly stated above, there is no fine or jail time involved in the bill itself. There *IS* a tax if you choose not to buy health insurance, a tax that goes into the Medicaid Uncompensated Care Fund so that if you fall off your ladder next year and break your fool neck, it's *your* taxes that are going to be payin' for that, not mine. The tax only kicks in above a certain income level, and remember that the bill raises Medicaid eligibility to 125% of poverty level and has subsidies for those making less than 400% of poverty level.
What *IS* true is that if you fail to pay your taxes -- ANY of your taxes, whether income tax, health care tax, social security tax, whatever -- you can be fined big time and go to jail. BUT: The IRS is quite willing to work with you if you can't pay your taxes and put you on one of those "pay us a certain amount per month" plans, they're there to collect revenue and if your ass is in jail you ain't producing any revenue for them to collect. But if you do like a right-wing militia dipwad and say "Hell no I won't pay my taxes?" Well, the IRS knows what to do with your lame ass then. Taxes are the price we pay for civilization, and I have no sympathy for tax evading freeloaders who want all the benefits of civilization but don't want to pay for it.
In short: The bill itself lays out no punishment for tax evasion. But the IRS code has had the same punishment for tax evasion for, like, forever. It ain't no different than last year, pard.
- Badtux the "Yes I read the bill" Penguin
Oh, Fly -- the CBO has already weighed in on tort reform. Those states where tort actions against doctors are basically prohibited have 1.3% lower costs than those states that allow tort actions against doctors. For 1.3% lower costs you'd give up a right guaranteed by the Constitution? Fuck that shit!
And the typical tort action against a doctor is when a drunk doctor amputates a toe on the WRONG DAMNED FOOT, not when the dude dies on the surgery table. No joke. If you're ever up for surgery, make sure you draw some arrows on what the fuck the doc is supposed to be cutting out before you go under, 'cause that shit happens *WAY* too damned often.
DIsclaimer: My mom's been a healthcare provider for 40 years, seen way too much shit like that, even got fired by HCA by blowin' the whistle on them doing illegal patient dumping. Deal.
- Badtux the Healthcare Penguin
Well, I like the fact that this plan calls for exchanges-or marketplaces- where we can compare coverage rates.
this is like a prisoner saying "gosh, i get to choose between mashed potatoes and creamed corn for lunch, yeah!"
i care for two people who have health issues and i'm here to tell you the last thing i need is more "choice" to "shop" for an additional layer of health insurance paperwork, phone trees, and computerized bullshit. medicare for all, one form one administration one standard. raise medi provider payment rates, crack down on the obvious fraud (usually perp'd by rethugs and their cronies). but the idea that i have the time to deal with even more bullshit that if i somehow mess up, will cause someone in this household to "temporarily" lose coverage. don't even get me started on the idea that i am in the class of people who 'deserves' to pay for this monstrosity. to me that's just obscene. this is the worst kind of vampirism. the rich stealing money from not just poor people, but sick, dying poor people.
fn:
seen this?
no lie/hoax lives forever
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/pharma-deal-with-white-ho_n_353499.html
more on the health hoax
i told u so
http://blackagendareport.com/?q=content/played-betrayed-health-care-delayed-house-passes-bailout-private-insurance-companies
fn:
ps:
here is more on the jail time/fines etc
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/11/interview-with-the-president-jail-time-for-those-without-health-care-insurance.html
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