I just got home from a beautiful wedding. And I saw two wonderfully committed and successful human beings with what I am sure is a wonderful future ahead of them, tying the knot and making their love for each other known to the world. It's a beautiful thing, and I wish that I could see more of it.
But, sadly, I was brought down from my matrimonial high when I got on my computer and read a post from over at AOL Black Voices. Unfortunately, it seems that cupid is not shooting his arrow towards the hearts of quite a few of our people. Or, if he is shooting, he sure is missing a lot. Yes my friends, as much as I hate to admit it; the black man and the black woman seem to be at war far too much with each other these days.
Check out the post (and the comments that follow) that have me thinking this way. Oh, and don't forget to go to the sister's web site with the link that's provided over at AOL Black Voices.
Wow! My sisters, I never knew it was this bad between us:
"Are you tired of watching the demise of the black community? Are you tired of watching our women being degraded and disrespected all over television? Are you tired of purchasing music for your children that promotes gangs, drugs and the killing of other black youth such as themselves? Are you sick of our youth allowing themselves to become a shell of what they could be? Are you sick of our black men that leave our race and marry outside our race profiting off the black community while they in turn, turn their backs on us? Are you ready to say something about it? Are you ready to boycott with your dollars? Are you ready to speak up and out in order to ask our black people to stay together; stick together because we need each other?! We are asking our black men to come home because we need you here...helping us rebuild our communities! We are openly praising GOOD black men (and we know you're out there) and asking them to be an example for our young men! It is a critical time for black America and we all need to love each other and work together so our youth have a race to be proud of as they grow. Here at Boycott Black Men we are taking the boycott way past just interracial dating and tackling numerous topics that aid in the demise of us as a people...we are on a mission not to support those that don't have our best interest at heart. Join us and voice your opinions and I urge our black women to visit ww.BlackWomenNeedLoveToo.com as well. Save the Black Community! I also urge you to purchase Mr. Vernon J. Davis' book Love, Is,The Beautiful Black Woman! Its a powerful book that all black women should add to their reading list!! Visit www"
Oh my, where to start? Well let me start with a question: If black men were to start settling down and marrying the good sisters who are out here in droves, would it change the problems in many of their lives? Problems such as getting a job; getting a criminal record expunged; going back to school and getting a proper education; and other pathologies that might plague the young black male in A-merry-ca. And would some of these sisters who are out here even want these men?
Well after seeing that beautiful wedding tonight I want to at least start the dialogue. I want some of these sisters out here (especially the ones on the brink of turning their backs on black and never looking back) to talk to us, and tell us what we need to do.
Brothers, I need you all to just listen...OK, I know that's impossible, but try to be introspective and keep an open mind.
Now back to my "Iggles" as they try to beat those stinking G Men.
383 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 383 of 383AB
How can you make the statement you just did and then claim that "wm adore bm"????????????
assnon:
like all slender healthy real women
i have luscious curves
i take great pride in all of them
only a racist sexist moron like you would deny that many wfs CHASE black men so they can live without constant hunger!
ps:
when i slay your bogus arguments
your silly slurs do nothing to revive them
i see those emaciated photos shut you right up!
see my lovely curves here:
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/photos/
AB "anorexia and bulimia are FAR less rare among black youth"
It's hard to be bulimic in the BC where food is the #1. Many are stuffing themselves with food like McDonalds burgers, fritos, booze, sodas, and milkshakes. Many belong in Overeaters Anonymous to learn how to eat healthier and reduce overeating- as well as joining several other Anonymous groups that could help them.
grinder:
uts calls you a racist because you post a lot of flagrantly racist bs like you did at 3:08
fyi
" Are you tired of watching our women being degraded and disrespected all over television?"
Um, it's not just tv, a disproportiate amount of time I see women being verbally abused or spoken about it's by black males.
"Problems such as getting a job; getting a criminal record expunged;"
Getting a criminal record expunged? ha ha. Give me a break. The only reason a disproportiate amount of young black males have criminal records is because they committ 9 times more violent crime than their white male counterparts- and this doesn't even take into account the huge population difference. Black folks like FN grasp at straws to make it sound like young black males are the victim when they have a hgher % of criminal records but it IS behavior.
assnon:
there is a classic scene in this film that shows how most wms prefer to starve their women
http://www.amazon.com/Backtrack-Julie-Adams/dp/B00005NSYA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260821869&sr=1-1
I haven't posted any racist material here. The way it goes on this site is that any white commenter who disagrees with the whining, self-pitying bullshit routinely tossed around here is deemed "racist." You devalue the currency by throwing it around carelessly. Anymore, I laugh.
Seriously, I do. What makes it even better is that, one by one, the regular commenters here are coming up with their anti-gay material. It is interesting, revealing, and frequently funny as hell. Shall I say, "darkly comedic?"
assnon:
why don't you send some protest mail to all those white franchisers in the hood?
i see tons of fat wfs muching on carbs and fat too
unlike wfs,
obesity does not play favs with black skin
MOST americans are obese
mcdonald's is even fattening asians now by the very same means of supply and demand and addiction
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/food/143874/mit:_eating_local_food_is_the_key_to_solving_our_obesity_epidemic/
Uts, "That's interesting because my youngest brother is married to a white woman."
How about you? And how many siblings do you have that are married to other races?
Post a link to ONE photo of a black male and a fat white woman.
You're making something about race that simply isn't. Most men in general prefer slim women.
It's also gross to proposition another poster.
And again, it has nothing to do with you.
grinder:
not me
you are dismissing black pain as black paranoia...adn flipppantly so at that
i view that as racist
you are pretending that racist gays are not notoriously abusive to black gays to the pt that millions refuse to even be called "gay"
i view the sgl movement as proof of gay racists like you
fyi
"I haven't posted any racist material here. The way it goes on this site is that any white commenter who disagrees with the whining, self-pitying bullshit routinely tossed around here is deemed "racist.""
Example of "whining self-pitying bull$hit" please grinder.
I'll bet my arm it'll be any recognition of white racism, any recognition of racial inequality or anything that offends grinder's white racist male sensibility.
You're a still a white male afterall.
The fact that you suck dicks is immaterial to race.
assnon:
i see skinny bm with fat black women daily
ANY fat celeb is very rare in hoillywood
but
when greg hines died he was in a 3some with catherin manaheim ( who is fat ad bi) and jesse l martin
ok??
another phenom:
i grew up with tons of ojs who only dated flawless bfs with curves but would date any emaciated wf reject....those very same bros would crucify and reject emaciated bf
i bet greg hines and jesse l marin would never date monique..who is het and MUCH prettier than cm
go figure
Anonymous,
"How about you?"
I dated a few white women in my bachelor days but I'm married to a black woman.
And how many siblings do you have that are married to other races?
One. The brother I just mentioned.
My sister is divorced. From a black man.
How about you?
AB "you are dismissing black pain as black paranoia...adn flipppantly so at that
i view that as racist"
What about white pain which Blacks dismiss as white parnoia, do you view them racist?
assnon:
i meant
Camryn Manheim
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Camryn%20Manheim&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
she pulled 2 pf the finest skinny bm in hollywood...at the same time
fyi
assnon:
what???
what pain???
be specific
and stop grabbing invisible straws
assnon:
"It's also gross to proposition another poster.
????
i have no idea what you refer to here
ps ssnon:
unless you mareallylyingagain?
AB "you are dismissing black pain as black paranoia...adn flipppantly so at that
i view that as racist"
I view it as racist that you feel black pain needs to be universally treated gingerly while black folks sure a fuck don't walk on egg shells when confronted with the "pain" of women, jews, asians, gays, whites, etc. I refuse to treat the feelings of black people as being more important than anyone elses. I also see no reason why people shouldn't talk about black folks the way black civil rights leaders talk about everyone else. I refuse to conform to this "blacks can judge but not be judged" mentality that people are pressured into conforming to to avoid being slurred as racist
assnon:
your confusing rant is meaningless until you specify what white pain we allegedly dismiss????
i do not think camryn was in any pain when she was enjoying her double chocolate treats
Uptown Steve, quit lying!!
My response to you was not bragging; I made it after you assumed that I was a bitter bw and "didn't have no man" - a common knee jerk response from trifling bm such as yourself.
Seeing as this happened about two months ago, and you still remember it AND my name, I guess I "impressed" you more than you let on.....
Anonymous,
please stop the "persecuted white guy" routine, okay.
I've never known white folks to mince words when talking race.
As a matter of fact, some of yall seem to feel that a right has been taken from you because you can no longer get in a black person's face and spew your racial hate without repercussions.
"I also see no reason why people shouldn't talk about black folks the way black civil rights leaders talk about everyone else."
For example?
Voice of Reason
"a common knee jerk response from trifling bm such as yourself."
You continue to make my point for me sweetheart.
Thanks.
"Seeing as this happened about two months ago, and you still remember it AND my name, I guess I "impressed" you more than you let on....."
Nope. Just that your remarks struck me as a stark example of the hypocrisy of some sistas who yack about how much black men hate and disrespect sisters yet your unbridleg hatred of black men and worship of white people is so obvious.
Carry on.
assnon:
i have specifically lamented much white pain
but you must be specific
you blanket slurs/blatant lies will never fly herein
ie
i have lamented how many wms have to become caricatuires of bm/wiggas/enema(m&m/eminem)
just to woo wfs who must have black men/bm surrogates/black condoms etc...
i feel their pain
i think nick lachey and channing tatum are 10s
because they are sexy and gorgeous and wms who play no such racial games
chris rock does a whole routine
on this...cool wm who are wm
i have also lamented the pain of liberal white gays who help black causes only to be abused by black homohating church folk
so again
what pain have i dismissed?
assnon/maria:
ha!
i knew it
mareallyhallucinating again!
YOU used my curves as a slur
i referred you to my lovely photos in defense!
i have NEVER ever dated osd of my race
i adore bf clones exclusively
never fret
stop taking notes from uts' baiting playbook!
[quote]For every Black professional that leaves Blackness they not only eventually destroy themselves, they destroy a whole generation (father/son, daughter, spouse (baby mama), it destroys the family by creating a downward spiral of failures and lowered expectations.[/quote]
Stunning.
I am glad that "Obama Sr" was not listening to you make this up as you go along.
IF the person chooses to date out of their race because they found an INDIVIDUAL who as a person clicks with them - I don't have a problem with it.
IF this person has some preconceived and negative notions about their fellow Blacks and thus is motivated to genetically engineer this "Blackness" out of his progeny then this is a very different matter.
As for me - I like'em chocolate but I don't second guess the choices of another person.
[quote] The absense of a father and husband/mate makes the family unit weak, not to mention it makes the child's mother look easy or cheap in the eyes of society.[/quote]
Agreed but what does this have to do with race?
What about the music who's lyrics incessantly say that "Black women are cheap and easy"? Does the fact that this is sold to White folks via their iTunes account have an impact on the societal views of Black folks?
[quote]
I have watched programs where the victims of horrific crimes will actually talk candidly about the perpetrator as if they couldn't understand why they would do such a thing. Whites as a direct given, will not contribute to degradation of their race in any way shape or form.[/quote]
This is a preposterous generalization.
If a White woman is raped by a White male you'd better believe that she will have issues with being in a confined space with ANY MAN where she is made to feel vulnerable.
Why not put your primary focus on the VIOLATOR than focusing on the offense that you take after the fact when people use the actions of one member of a group and extend it into a stereotype? How long will you keep "chasing"?
[quote]Let the same white crime victim been victimized by a Black perp, and you will get a completely different story.[/quote]
As I stated above YOU appear to be more offended by the REACTION to the Black perp than you are to the fact that he did an assault.
A few years ago a GA State representative who had a radio show was hot and bothered that the picture of a Black man who SHOT A COP IN THE FACE and murdered him (father of 4) and a Republican showed a picture of the man in legislative session as they were tweaking the death penalty sentencing in the state. I called in and made note that she SAID NOTHING in the way of sympathy for the MURDERED POLICE OFFICER. He was merely "water under the bridge" in her game.
mareallyaslut:
what does it say about you that you are constantly accusing me of flirting on this blog when i never do????
i am a loyal leo madly in love with my chocolate wife/ebony queen
i know you are mareallyrolling forojs
but MANY posters here are never that like me
you must have me confused with tiger....
fyi
mareallybustedherself:
ha
thanks for revealing that you have always posted as assnon
as often accused...
u make this way too easy...
Example of "whining self-pitying bull$hit" please grinder.
Just about all of your postings here, for starters. It's absolutely pathetic.
So, if allot of white women are thin, then white men prefer to starve themselves? So, then since 69% of black women are obese, then black men must prefer to feed their women to death?
"Just that your remarks struck me as a stark example of the hypocrisy of some sistas who yack about how much black men hate and disrespect sisters yet your unbridleg hatred of black men and worship of white people is so obvious."
Wait....what?
Where in the hell's black ass did you pull that from. I wasn't talking about "all" bm...just about your silly ass!
Your hatred for all things black and female is showing....you "must not have no woman"...nope, nope the porn sites you pay for don't count....
VOF
"Your hatred for all things black and female is showing"
LMAO!!!!!!!!!
That would be news to my black wife of of 23 years.
Look sweetheart, I will not nor will I ever pull punches with scowling, obnoxious, self-righteous, bitter, black man-hating cows like you who look for every reason under the sun to explain why nobody wants you except what's looking right at you in the mirror.
Yeah I know, you got a white boyfriend.
And I screwed Beyonce' last Saturday.
no assnon:
100% of wfs prefer bm so that they can eat at least 69% of the nominal standard daily caloric intake...
see?
only racists pretend that only bf are fat whe MOST wfs and wm and bm are fat too!...most americans of all races are fat!
go visit any school and see tons of fat kids of all genders/races
MOST american diets are toxic
and america is now importing that dietary poison in droves...
only racists pretend that only bf are fat whe MOST wfs and wm and bm are fat too!...most americans of all races are fat!
That's true, which makes your "skinny white women theory" a myth, since most white women are not skinny. However, there are more obese black women than any other group in America. Hence-according to your stupid logic-black men overfeed their women.
mareallygiveitarest:
stop posting assanine sexist racist bs as assnon
and go eat a delicious dinner with a bm
masreallyreeeeeeeeeeaching:
i never said most wfs were skinny
i said the skinny ones are embraced/revered while their black skinny clones are crucified by bm
i also said wms typically demand that wfs be emaciated
ref
jessica simpson et al above
mareallyagdfool:
try to be less obviously mareallytrollingforojs as you post as assnon
ok?
Look sweetheart, I will not nor will I ever pull punches with scowling, obnoxious, self-righteous, bitter, black man-hating cows like you who look for every reason under the sun to explain why nobody wants you except what's looking right at you in the mirror.
Yeah I know, you got a white boyfriend.
And I screwed Beyonce' last Saturday.
Not to get into that above discussion, but this statement applies to way too many black females as these post have displayed. Shameful.
I'll say it again, if you stop the the male bashing, take a deep look in the mirror, you'll see that you play a large problem as to WHY you're miserable or alone.
You get what you give out of life. With attitudes like many of you have, it's no wonder you have abysmal dating lives. Keep bashing your sons, fathers and brothers. Keep generalizing. It's clear many of you are responsible for at least 55% of the problems. Maybe you drive the men away, good or bad.
mareallyevernotice?
oj often said oj was the whitest bm she ever met
ditto for some of tiger's whores re: tiger too
fyi:
oj beat nicole viciously when she was pregnant and called her a pig etc
so much so that she had serial abortions to resist getting fat...
ditto for some of tiger's whores re: tiger too
more on how white tiger is per hsi wfs stable
http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/another-tiger-jumpoff-pornstar-holly-sampson-mistress-7/3934836772
Alica,
What's up with saying that people who consistently date out of their race are abnormal, when you consistently date within you gender, which EVEN MORE people consider abnormal.
Secondly, don't tell me to go on a dinner date with a black man. Why don't you go on a date with a black man?
It's great to get tips on heterosexual relationships from a lesbian.....
mareallyhardup:
glad i could help
all relos are human
___
uts:
bill maher also dates bfs exclusively
as many jewish men do
assnon:
mareallyconfused:
quote me you liar!!!
you are lying out of sync/
experiencing severe schizo eruptions herein/...fyi
YOU LIE!!!!!!!
i never said it was abnormal
i said
it is indicative of self hatred
ie
i know many gay people who only date "hets" and have no gay friends
they hate themselves too
the only thing worse than ALWAYS losing real debates herein
is always losing the ones you fabricate too!!!
give it a rest you silly shrew
Hi, my name is Field Nigger. I type stupid and dumb posts so others will get riled up, spend a day posting stupid shit and then i feel better about myself. I do this a lot, which is why my wife is getting throat fucked by someone at work. I don't care, I prefer sports and pot. That is my life. I really don't care about the BC, I just perpetuate stupidity and lots of white folk come here to laugh at us. I
i said
it is indicative of self hatred
You must hate black men then. Why don't you date them?
uts:
diahnn carroll dated dick frost and wed vic damone
she also wed a jew who she thought was black until their wedding day...
see her bio
http://www.amazon.com/Diahann-Carroll/dp/0804101310/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2
uts:
robin givens wed a wm
and dated brad pitt
Calling something "self-hating" is calling it abnormal.
mareallyhating:
i am a lesbian
duh?
and i love all bm kings
especailly the ones who would never slum with you
I am lesbian
Than why do you lecture people on heterosexual relationships? I'm not about to lecture you about lesbian relationships.
assnon/
mareallyneedsadictionary&athesaurus
ONLY in your racist twisted white supremacist world
where swirled is akin to self loving/upgrading etc
the more you stretch
the more you fail
You shouldn't lecture people on what is or isn't acceptable, wrong, or self hating when the vast majority of the world has no respect for your lifestyle and would be perfectly willing to force you to date a man.
assnon/mareallyuneducated:
i study all human relos
they are all the same
i have also earned a MA summa cum laude in ALL interpersonal comm/relos
do not hate me because i am a scholar
u can study and become one too
really
u can
clearly, you are very much alone and frigid and sexually frustrated
i truly pity u
and your missing HUMAN relo
dine with a bm stud this evening and may even get dessert!
mareallyalonelygaybasher:
only dunb het illiterate lonely bimbos like you try to make gay relos unique
gays are humans
all humans have human issues
our relos are just like your own
well, just like those of all others as you have none
assnon/mareallyaspinster:
no one can ever force me to date anyone
just as you are alone because you cannot force any man to date you
see?
Then you shouldn't make judgements about other people's relationships. Relationships that are between CONSENTING ADULTS. Do you like it when people judge your lesbian relationships between CONSENTING ADULTS?
assnon:
i am making no judgments about consenting adults
YOU are making them about all lesbians who you think should date men and pretend that their relos are unique
see?
again:
those who love themselves occasionally date those who look like them/their moms etc...
your denial and lies will never change that
read my column linked above
"black love and gray lies"
YOU are into the smoke gray zone now
Calling someone's relationships choices "self hating" is passing judgement.
I LOVE black men and Black men LOVE me! I'm good!! :)
Now that I think about it, the ONLY men I've never been able to "pull" are Asian men. And from what I've heard, that's probably for the best, LOL!!!
Here's a news flash to Black women everywhere. You attract what you are! If you're happy, healthy, educated, and paid, that's what you'll attract! And if you're not attracting what YOU think YOU deserve, you very likely need to take a long look at YOURSELF!!!
ditto fly:
that goes for mareallyattractingnoone too!
assnon:
those who hate themselves and those who look like them are self loathing even when solo
like u
fyi
It seems rather silly to me to argue with a person who's in a great relationship when you are not.
Kinda comes off as jealous IMHO.
Just sayin'.............
ditto fly:
___
mareallyjealous:
stop incessantly lying and read the column!!!
I date Black women exclusively because I need what God gave to most of us: Chocolate skin, soft sexy nappy locks, sacred breasts, magical movement, divine rhythm, protruding buttocks, soft full sexy lips, round curves, soothing voices, soul food magic, and sista cool etc...We Black women have “that thing” that no other gender or race has. That is the thing I need to live, breathe, love, heal, and to survive. This is my thing. I humbly respect that your thing may be completely different.
To each her/his own. Why can’t Africans who need whiteness be as honest about needing whiteness as I am about needing blackness? Why can’t whites who increasingly need blackness do the same? Love is where we find it. But, I am disgusted by how many people blatantly dare to lie about the motivations of their amorous searches!!!
I want eurocentric Africans to embrace their eurocentrism just as I embrace my afrocentrism. Stop insulting me with your lies about fictitious colorless realities where “race is not an issue”!!! That is akin to saying “oxygen is not an issue” or “gender is not an issue” or “income is not an issue” etc....
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/black-love-gray-lies.html
Wow, AB, this "Maria" person really gets to you! Clearly she isn't every anonymous person on here! And why would she listen to you about what blogs she can read?
Thanks Stacks, Ab and others for understanding my plight.
grinder, what makes you think you are 'entitled' to interject yourself and keep commenting on this topic? You have brought nothing insightful nor constructive to the table. Honestly, you being a white homosexual male, I don't see how this particular subject directly concerns you in the first place. It's not about YOU. There are other white regulars who are sitting on the sidelines quietly, but you....
Can't black men and black women have an open and honest dialogue with each other without every sentence being reviewed or approved by a white overseer? I'm convinced you're trying to derail this discussion (as usual) just to keep us from coming to a common ground with each other. This unashamedly behavior of yours is just another form of black oppression, cyber style.
It's the same root cause of the divide and conquering scheme that brought blacks into this very mess beforehand. Now, we could hardly communicate or respect each other to keep structured families in the black community. Then a white racist like you will have the audacity to whip out your effing out-of-wedlock stats to wag your pure sanctimonious finger. How ironic!
LaIncognita,
Alicia has nor right interjecting herself into a debate about heterosexual relationships either-much less judging those relationships.
UTS said some bullshit about having a "wife" of 23 years, bla bla bla...
Uh huh, what's her name, Dell? or maybe IBMa, or Hewletta Packard?
I know a self hating, masterbating, lonely, bitter Negro when I read the inane rantings of one.
And that is "husband". White Husband. Tell Beyonce I said hi! I'm sure it's her turn tonite! Right after Lady GaGa!
And Tiny Dick for your Tiny Box - STFU. If a few people are complaining about bm some of the time, then yes generalizing can be bad. But if you hear the same complaints over and over again about the same stupid shit....well, wouldn't you think that there was a problem somewhere...and not with the ones that are complaining?
Oh sorry, that takes deep thought and common sense - go join Steve and his "orgy" Maybe his wife Intel-a will join you....
If Black women continue to act like men, they will continue to repel men. A man does not want a woman who thinks she is the boss. Many women do not know how to let a man be a man--even if they are still running the show. If you think I'm wrong, then why don't you have a man?
MRS...
Brilliant, you uneducated asshole.
Why don't you take a language arts class before you try getting snarky with someone.
No matter which side of the grass you walk on, you still step in the same shit jerk.
"Alicia has nor right interjecting herself into a debate about heterosexual relationships either-much less judging those relationships."
Anony, the relationship stats and communication gap between black men and black women entails more than just intimacy. The way I see it, It includes black fathers, black mothers, black siblings, black cousins as well as the overall "black society". Alicia is still a black female, she can not be exempt from these propelling interactions. Your comparison to grinder is notwithstanding. Thanks.
Can't black men and black women have an open and honest dialogue with each other ...
Translated: Scream insults at each other for screwing across color lines.
... without every sentence being reviewed or approved by a white overseer? I'm convinced you're trying to derail this discussion (as usual) just to keep us from coming to a common ground with each other. This unashamedly behavior of yours is just another form of black oppression, cyber style.
:rolling eyes:
Seriously, if anyone ought to comment on this, it's a white homosexual. Talk about objectivity. Talk about not having a dog in the fight.
Beyond that, my tribe is the original renegades on the sexual frontier. We were aliens before E.T. was cool. If anyone has credibility with the message that anyone ought to be able to have a sexual relationship with anyone else without being put down for it, we're the ones.
Look, kids, life is a big enough challenge without making people feel like shit because their squeeze is the wrong color. It's bullshit for anyone to even go there. But, given the attitudes toward gays among most (not all) black people, it doesn't exactly surprise me that your tribe is so freaked out about interracial relationships. It neurotic as hell, but hardly surprising.
Then a white racist like you will have the audacity to whip out your effing out-of-wedlock stats to wag your pure sanctimonious finger.
My statistics? I don't think so, dear.
I thought LA was also gay.
I think dating is daunting period, but doubly so when you're a woman and a black woman at that. I remember back in my single days when my two best friends and I would go out, we'd get hit on by guys from every race except for black men. We didn't understand it and it really frustrated my friend Tammie the most.
I'm not trying to to toot my own horn, but the three of us were pretty damn hot back then and we were all educated and degreed. One day we had this discussion about why we couldn't seem to attract black men and we never came to what I felt was a real conclusion. Trista pretty much gave up. She never puts black men down, but her philosophy became, "hey, I'm going to be with the man who wants me." Currently she's married to a Filipino. Tammie is still single. She dates men from all races and ethnicities, but she's still holding out for her black prince. I dated outside of my race, but ended up marrying a loving black man who is more Carlton from Fresh Prince of Bel Air than Jay-Z.
I guess my take is that black women should be more flexible. I have a friend who is an anesthesiologist and she married a black man who does car detailing and mechanic work. They have a great marriage (as far as I know.) and he treats her like a queen. I know she doesn't feel like she "married down" at all.
Black women shouldn't waste time on worrying about black men who say, "I don't date black women because. . ." These men probably aren't that great to any women they date anyway.
Sistas who are dating out or who married out: Tracy Edmonds, Venus Williams, Rae Dong Chong, Alfre Woodard, Miss USA 2008 is married to a white guy; Holly Robinson, Sanaa Lathan, Lisa Bonet, Golden, Joy Bryant, Garcelle Beauvais, Tyra Banks, Denyce Graves, Elaine Griffin, Kerry Washington; Alice Walker was the first legally interracially married black woman in Mississippi, Kelly and Michelle from Destiny's Child, Keasha Sharp, Lil Kim, Eve, Namoi Campbell, Lynn Whitfield, Nell Carter, Whoopi Goldberg, Chaka Khan, Victoria's Secret model Oluchi Onweagba, Paula Patton, Robin Givens, Lena Horne, Tina Turner, Thandie Newton, Stacy Dash, Rosario Dawson,
Santogold, Diana Ross, Grace Jones, Josephine Baker, Fefe Dobson, Kerry Washington, Robin Givens, Janet Jackson, Tamera Mowry, Diahann Carroll, Pearl Bailey, Halle Berry, KeKe Palmer...
I've honestly always felt that the media's need to focus on the angst between black men and black women was part of the larger goal of keeping us apart. And from the look of things, it's clearly working.
In the experience of most of the people I know, Black men/Black women have NO PROBLEM with relationships or being there for their families. So when I hear black women complain about these things, I pretty much just shake my head in amazement.
With that said, I honestly don't understand why Black women in their 20's and 30's are "complaining" about the so called unavailable Black men. This generation, FAR more than mine, has options in partners among ALL races of men. I certainly get that Black men have the "somethin' somethin' that most other races of men don't have, but why on earth should you limit yourself to that especially when Black men have had NO PROBLEM crosing the color line?
Correction Santigold (she changed her name Feb 2009.
"Seriously, if anyone ought to comment on this, it's a white homosexual. Talk about objectivity. Talk about not having a dog in the fight."
No dear. please stop trying to interlace gay relationships with IR relations between black men and black women. If you like, you can find a blog to comment on IR relations between white, black, or purple gay couples. Sorry, you have no place in this discussion after all. It's not always about you, and the sun will still rise tomorrow.
btw, the last time I checked, I didn't have a tribe. Watch your language. Your tribe (I'm talking about the one that hands out your privileges), stole that identity from me.
No anony, I am straight as a door. But just as I support straight black women in IR relationships, I also support them in lesbian relationships as well. When it comes to relationships, I'm always focussed on seeing black women in happy, healthy, loving marriages/relationships with men or women regardless of race. And I make no apologies for any bias.
I guess my take is that black women should be more flexible.
How come Asian, White, Latino, indian women aren't being told to 'be flexible.' Why does a degreed black woman have to marry a car mechanic and white or Asian woman can marrying a man of similar education and class?
Why does a degreed black woman have to marry a car mechanic and white or Asian woman can marrying a man of similar education and class?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is exactly the same question I have.
If this is what some black women choose to do, go for it! But if you end up having to pay his ass alimony, don't say I didn't tell you so, LOL!!
I believe the biblical term is equally yoked, yep that's what I'm talking about!
AB, "assnon:"
Stop calling me assnon. show some respect!
What's wrong with marrying someone who's blue collar if he treats you right? That's my point. She didn't HAVE to marry a blue collar man, she chose to marry him.
How do you know that Asian women, Indian women, or Hispanic women arent' being told to be flexible? That sounds speculative to me.
I live in Texas so we don't have alimony laws.
Equally yoked can mean anything. It the Bible, I believe it was referring to marrying people with the same faith.
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Cor. 6:14, KJV).
All I can say after reading the comments is thank goodness for CW Experience, Evia's IR blog, Sara and Halima's (and other Black women empowerment) blogs.
They at least say something positive to Black women instead of always tearing us down.
@FN
If you wanted to get BM and BW shouting down each other, you certainly succeeded.
Anon 7:09 - Steve, I know it's you...
What part of the language didn't you understand? My major was Business, with a minor in English -I thought I did quite well...
At least I kept the same thread and rhythm going - That shit you wrote - complete with the stupid allegory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory) at the end....well, you might want to take a few night classes yourself...
Snark ended - pwned you yet again!
There's nothing wrong with being blue collar. There's a LOT wrong IMHO with lacking ambition and I've met far too many folks who sold themselves short when it comes to ambition in favor of a well paying blue collar job.
A man who does detail work without aspirations for at least one day OWNING a detailing shop just wouldn't work for me personally.
Black men NEVER, EVER have to sacrifice when it comes to these issues and neither have I. And neither should anyone else.
I think you judged a man without knowing him. Gary does detailing work and works as a mechanic. I didn't say anything about him not having ambition. After hurricane Ike he and his two cousins got together and scored a contract to help clear away debris and set up temporary homes in Galveston.
Personally, I've met far too many folks in so-called white collar jobs that tend to stall themselves when it comes to moving up to higher positions in their professions, too.
I don't think my friend made a sacrifice, she chose to marry a man who made her happy and a man she loved. I've seen more women married to star athletes sacrifice more than my friend did.
Admission Time:
This is my first post on here.
I have read for over a year now.
I am a white, straight, 30 year old male (no haters please).
I think AB and La Incognita are awesome. They are strong, passionate women who offer unwavering support to black women and others as well.
I admire and respect you both and look forward to your posts. I am attracted to warrior types, and that you both are. I am proud to share the same planet with you.
Cheers from Canada!
When I say attracted, I mean admire. Not stalking you sexually or anything :)
I believe the biblical term is equally yoked, yep that's what I'm talking about!
Another fake Christian slandering the world of our Lord Jesus Christ. Granny where are you!!
Cocoa Goddess said...
I think you judged a man without knowing him. I've seen more women married to star athletes sacrifice more than my friend did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I've dated ambitious blue collar men so I'm not judging at all. But mentioning star athletes is just foul. Only someone who wants to get played dates a start athlete.
And to assnon, go stick your dildo in your ear, LOL!!!
This may seem a bit out of character for me since it's more passion based than my usual posts but it's the only way I feel I can get the point across right now.
Someone up top asked what's wrong. Well, imo, there's simply too much sniping and insulting going on. Empowerment should NOT come at the cost of disempowering others. Feeling beautiful or loved should NOT come at the cost of insulting someone else's beauty or making them feel unloved. Too many comments here have been along those lines. The beauty of black women does NOT rely on other women being ugly.
So much of this argument is premised or framed on the notion of things being FINITE and limited. Love, beauty, empowerment, equality, etc. are not finite things. Black empowerment doesn't mean white inferiority. It doesn't cost a damn thing to love yourself, your community, and seek equality but people want to take away or attack others with "if sistahs weren't this way, if bros weren't that, if whites weren't this and so on." Everything seems to be a fucking weapon to some folks. If you date out it's because bm/bw's are x -- wtf?! Seriously, wtf?!! Why do you have to demean anyone? Does a black woman's happiness come only after she's insulted black men? Does a black man's happiness rely on demeaning black women? Does a black woman's beauty rely on others being less than her? Are men only worth their wallets to the black community? HELL NO!
I repeat: love, self-worth, equality, empowerment, beauty -- none of these things cost a dime! They're not finite and certainly not related to tearing someone else -- whoever your preferred target might be -- down. The problem is too many damned people think these things come at the price of hurting someone else. It's time to learn what uplifting really means.
--j
@FN:
Weren't we having a short discussion on a similar topic? So I guess this is the "new wave" of making maoney and once again dividing the black man and woman...Wille Lynch is alive and well.
I have not gone through the entire blog so I cannot really comment. But I will leave you this:
How in da he77 iz black folk gonna boycott black folk?????
Peace.
~agape2010~
Anon 9:56/j, you know what I really love about blogs? Sometimes, in the middle of a typical insane shitstorm, someone will come along and say something profound, like you did.
Kudos to you for that comment. Someone should have written that a long time ago.
anon:
respect begets respect
just as every anon is not one person
each of my refs to assnon is also not aimed at every anon
when i post to assnons,
i am posting ONLY to the sexist rude hater dogs/mareallylying who post as anons
fyi
____
li:
all of your posts today have been flawlessly on point!
thanks!
grinder is often brazenly racist and typical of the most bigoted and sexist gays herein
ditto
we black homos are still an integral and pervasive part of the black community...even when black hets reject or omit us in denial of that fact
and again
our gay relos have all of the same issues/ills of class/colorism/euorentrism/class/elitism/gender roles etc...
____
dietcoke:
thanks!
peace
ab
Thanks grinder. It pains me that so many people subscribe to tearing others down to uplift themselves. This is a problem that dogs too many people and is certainly not limited to any community but it is particularly dangerous for the black community and any minority community including gays, women (and also the poor) because as disempowered groups and peoples it keeps us fighting, blaming and otherwise eating away at ourselves instead of working toward the betterment of all. It's also a particularly tempting trap because of all the weights, worries, and social as well as economic discrimination set in our paths.
--j
assnon:
i am always amazed when people ignore my haters like marreallyastalker... as if i am speaking harshly to some silent innocent mute with 0 provocation...
ie
how did you possibly miss how i also "get to" her????????
spare me the selective policing ok?
got glasses?
grinder, "I find it really fascinating that as the barriers to interracial sex have reduced among whites in recent decades, the black population seems to grow only more paranoid and dysfunctional about it. Very strange."
No, bm have welcomed the taking down of racial barriers, and so have many others of all races. Unfortunately, the bw has yet to catch up.
@J, and grinder, thanks for your insightful comments. It is much appreciated. They give me hope that maybe there are also other humans 'out there' who would rather seek kindness and harmony, instead of sniping at and hurting one another.
Wow! Just WOW. At first, I was at a lost for words, but I feel as if I have to comment. I've read all 286 comments, and it would appear to me that we cannot have a "dialogue between black men and women" without the discussion breaking down into "school-yard" banter. Why all the name calling back and forth?
As I was reading these comments, I got the impression that people are bringing their past relationships that did not turn out so well into the discussion. It doesn't create a good environment in which to have a productive discussion. It seems as if people need to stop making generalizations based on past experiences or what is going on in their lives right now. Everyone's situation is different. We, are after all, individuals. So, yes a man may have treated you wrongally and yes, a woman may have treated you wrong, but do not let these experiences make you a bitter person. Don't let these experiences divide us because there is still work to be done.
I don't think boycotting black men is the answer. I think we need to come together to come up with a solution for what is "ailing" our community. That is why I think mentoring is so important. Our children need to see positive images of themselves. They need to see someone successful, well- educated, and well-rounded that looks like them. It is sad to say but I believe most black children do not get to see portrayals of positive, healthy, whole, stable black relationships--at home, in the community, or in the media. When was the last time we've seen a black family on TV. I think My Wife and Kids was the last black family on the air. So what do you expect in a relationship if you never seen what a healthy, stable relationship looks like?
I agree with what a poster had said earlier about this is nothing but the divide-and-conquer scheme. When are we (black people) going to wake up and be honest with ourselves. We have not kept our "eyes of the prize." We are of the mentality that as long as I got mine, everyone else be damned. In the immortal words of Dr. Phil, "We need to get real." We need to get real about what is going on in regards to our families, health, education, equality, how the media portrays us, and about ourselves.
I also have noticed that their is a possible generational gap going on here. I can see why people over 40 may have a hard time with IR relationship. The younger generation are more open to IR relationship. They are so far removed from the civil rights movements. I guess they can't imagine what it was like for the older generation back when. And I'm not saying this to disrepect or offend anyone. I just think the older generation are looking at things through another len based on their past experiences or what their parents may have past down to them. I, for one, am on the fence about IR relationships. On the one hand, I believe people should be with someone who is going to treat them well, respect them, and love them. But at the same time, IR relationships kinda puts me in the mind of what has happened to Native Americans. Some tribes have almost become extinct. They are barely hanging on to their cultures, their way of life. They have been almost annihilated by diseases, wars, and being absorbed into the dominate culture. I can see this happening to black people. We are dying off from diseases (AIDS, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, drug abuse, etc.)because we do not take care of ourselves properly. We are affected by wars amongst ourselves (dying by violence at the hands of our own people). We are being absorbed into the dominate culture, i.e. interracial marriages. I know we (black people) are not the only ones that date and marry outside our race. I believe that the impact on our race is more profound and felt more deeply because we are a small group (12% of the population). We are no longer considered the biggest minority group. The present conditions of some of our communities and the in-fighting are sad, disheartening, and tragic. Why are we still living like we are conquered people? Are we conquered people?
I apologize for this being so long, but I guess my point is black people don't give up on each other. Whether you like it or not, we still need each other because there is still work to be done.
Yes black men don't hang around. Black women don't make a house a home for black men. Black men are stubborn and impatient. Where does that leave the black race?
I have a friend who works hard and self-employed. He doesn't have a degree. I remember a girlfriend of mines called him hood and spoke of him as if he was beneath her. I find a lot of women feel the same way about guys that didn't go to school or got in a little trouble during their youth. Women may never say it, but once they've reached that masters degree, got that job, own that house, they feel that dating a guy like my friend is beneath them.
Rebuilding the black community? It's never going to happen. Black women have made it to the mans table, they don't mess with bruthas from da hood. Black men will continue to date white women. The black families will eventually all look like Al B. Sure. Our culture will dissolve into vanilla creme.
There are a lot of men who refuse to date WF, but can't find or afford a black woman who'll give them a chance. Yes there could be a record. Yes there could be some kids. No one is perfect. Unless you run the 40 in 4.2 secs or dunk a basketball, there's no love for a guy from the hood.
Yes there are good men with degrees, but that's a small percentage. The black race will become mulatto.
It's not a damm thing we can do about it. People complain about Shaniqua having babies. If she didn't, then it would get worse faster.
Good job Willie Lynch
grinder is often brazenly racist and typical of the most bigoted and sexist gays herein
Yeah, and you wonder why so many white people retreat to their suburban redoubts and don't even try to engage. All you ever do is shit on white people. You and La Idiot, the uptownsteve and a bunch of others here.
Every single goddamn problem that black people have, according to you, is thrust upon you by whites. Neat trick, but if you're not responsible for anything then how do you ever really expect anyone to respect you?
Fortunately, I don't think the craziness from some of the peanut gallery here is representative of most black people.
"Rebuilding the black community? It's never going to happen."
I agree. The Black Community has been on its deathbed for at least a decade. We are headed for mulatto ville and/or vanillaville or somewhere in-between. The way we hate on each other, and even kill each other, I don't see what there is to hold on to in the BC anyway.
Blacks don't like each other, and will sell each other down the river at the drop of a hat. We fight, snipe and call each other names. The FN culture proves it. We don't have any businesses in the BC, and all of our black politicians are corrupt. What is there to look forward to among Blacks?
All the talk about we must come together is such bullshit. Blacks have been singing that tune for decades while moving farther apart. We say one thing, and do another. It's strange and very sick.
As far as for 'most' bm and bw coming together? It will never happen...too much water under the bridge; and too much degradation, mistrust, and anger.
Those with half a brain know to look beyond the black race, where opportunities are greater. Read the mean-spirited comments and you will agree. The BC is dead.
Field says, “Brothers, I need you all to just listen...OK, I know that's impossible, but try to be introspective and keep an open mind.” Right, Field, bm are very closed minded and certainly lack introspection. It's hard to listen to the same old denigrating blaming AND racist comments from some of the black female posters and black female sites like the ones you based your post on.
I DO hope many more bw will start looking elsewhere and give up trying to pressure bm to enter into relationships with them when they don't want to. This is a country where everyone can choose to be with the person that turns them on and makes them happy. But some miserable bw are trying their best to stop that. It only shows their low self-worth, lack of dignity and lack of love for themselves.
Instead of trying to straighten out bm by not supporting them, maybe they would be better off by straightening themselves out first?
You can't fix somebody else when you can't even fix yourself.
"Why does a degreed black woman have to marry a car mechanic and white or Asian woman can marrying a man of similar education and class"
You don't HAVE to do anything!
There are many degreed men out there.
If none of them want you then that's your problem.
For the life of me I can't understand this sort of thinking.
You can't make somebody want you.
You are not owed or entitled to anything in this life.
And why is it that a male PHd can marry a cocktail waitress and nobody bats an eye.
But black females with college degrees feel that they are entitled to educated high earning men.
You can't complain about a shortage of men and then demand a certain type and pedigree!
Especially when you're presently getting NOTHING.
Geez!
First, I am going to still this article and put it on facebook for family and friends to see. Second, it is amazing the amount of conversation about the relationship b/w male and female. Third, nothing I would say is going to change how folks view the outcome of the male and female relationship, so I will keep nurturing mines, while remembering the words of Michael Jackson, it starts with the man in the mirror
grinder, you're a white racist faggot, this discussion has no place for you and your race bating idiocy. Go take your HIV pills and shutup. Let the real women talk, I rather read what they have to say.
....that's it. I have had enough. I normally would just read the comments and reflect on them but that was the last straw for me. How dare you make such a nasty, ignorant comment like that? I am sure my black women don't want that crap in their homes meaning a man thinking or speaking in such ways. If I was a bw I would hit it to other race instead of trying to raise someone else's kid. I am a gay man and there is no reason to become that disrespectful to any of us...white or black. Sure the woman have issues but the bm does too! I think we all need to work together...first. Nothing else will matter, work or make a difference if we can't do that ONE thing well, first. Stop messing with the gay dude...because I can tell you most that say shit like that end up bending over at the gay bars that I go to and then go to the wives with a sore ass and cock on their breathe. Everybody be cool and let's just talk. Don't get nasty. It doesn't help anyone at all.
Field,
First and foremost, outstanding blog! Found your site more than a week ago and I've been hooked ever since.
The Issue-
The topic of discussion is very complex and we have to look at a myriad of social issues that plague our media, or communitites and our schools.
I think in today's society how many bw are willing to really standby their man when he makes a mistake? Without draggin him through the mud and belittling him for his short coming. By all means i'm not saying accept s*** from him, but are they willing to learn from him as well as teach him. You can't fix the blk man without fixing the bw, and vice versa.
In order for both to co-exist and build, we must be willing to go through all the heartache and pain sometimes to get that final product, which in turn break the vicious cycle.
Just my two cents-Thanks Field
"Rebuilding the black community? It's never going to happen."
So we just give up? I am wondering how old you are? Do you know about the civil rights movement? Think about it: Where would we be if the civil right workers just gave up?
I think we need to stop blaming each other, pointing fingers- saying who is not being supportive of whom. Get out there and start supporting each other--the "good" and the "bad". Yes, the "bad" because some of them are probably come from a place of hurt. You don't know what someone has experienced in the past.
Did you hear me earlier people? There is still work to be done.
If any of you has the chance or even remotely interested, watch the PBS documentary "We Shall Remain." It's a mini-series. It's about the destruction of some, if not most, of the Native American tribes. There was alot of in-fighting going on then amongst certain tribes. It made it easy for them to be conquered and almost annihilated. One warrior named Tecumseh tried to unite the tribes, but after he died there was no one to take up the mantle.
I sat there watching this, and I got this feeling in my gut that this sounds sickingly familiar. I feel we are heading in that direction. Give it a few more generations. We have alot of black people out there who do not seem to care if this happens to us.
Johanna said: "Find yourself a good man - period."
There’s that saying: "You never miss the water 'til the well runs dry." I live in a prefecture (state) where I could probably count the number of Black men on two hands, so YES...I have much appreciation for our brothers. Frankly, I think Black men, as a whole, are incredible. For so many of them to overcome the centuries of adversity that they have been saddled with is nothing short of a miracle. (Yes, we Black woman have had it hard too...but I'm sure we can all agree that Black men have had it much harder!) Sure there are those who have yet to rise to the occasion, as with men from every single racial group we could think of. Still, I have hope that they, too, will grow into great men someday.
As for me, I have no interest in boycotting our Black men. It was a loving Black man who often went without in order to support our family. It was a very determined Black man who made sure I kept my head in the books throughout the years so that I could take advantage of the level of education he was denied. It was a protective Black man who made the local Toms, Dicks and Harrys respect the girls in our neighborhood. And finally, a strict and committed Black man promised to walk me down the aisle regardless of whom I choose to marry. The Black men in my life have, for the most part, been great role models. They have taught me the importance of first being that which I seek in other people. They have taught me that I am not perfect, and that I need to use patience and compassion when relating to others. Finally, they have shown me that I have a responsibility to the same Black community that helped to raise me. So, for better or worse, I stand with them.
Finally, I won’t boycott our Black men who date outside our race because I’d be a hypocrite. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that the love of my life would be living in the body of a Japanese man. My acceptance of him is simply that…and in no way equates to any denial of Black men. And furthermore, for the record, I make NO APOLOGIES for choosing to be with him…and could care less who has issues with it. You can call me a “sell-out” all you want, but at the end of each day, I consider myself blessed to have such a wonderful man to share my life with. I hope you all are as blessed with love and life.
(PS…You can imagine the looks I got when I took my boyfriend to Georgia to meet my parents last summer. I can't tell you how many times people, both Black and White, assumed I was his guide. LOL...)
You go Angie!
Always great to hear from you Angie!
Grinder said: "Yeah, and you wonder why so many white people retreat to their suburban redoubts and don't even try to engage. All you ever do is shit on white people...Neat trick, but if you're not responsible for anything then how do you ever really expect anyone to respect you?"
Grinder, don't let the comments aggravate you. Grow with them. Sometimes you have to trudge through the mud to get to clearer water.
Hello FlyNMy40s: I guess all these comparisons to water means that it's time for a bath. It's 6:15 in the morning and I'm just getting to bed. LOL...
UTS: I hope all is well!! Always a pleasure reading your thoughts!! Have a great day...
Angie I know that your first impulse is to be understanding and seek common ground but Grinder is a RACIST,
"Yeah, and you wonder why so many white people retreat to their suburban redoubts and don't even try to engage. All you ever do is shit on white people...Neat trick, but if you're not responsible for anything then how do you ever really expect anyone to respect you?"
Grinder is not seeking engagement.
Grinder wants black people to corroborate his racist assessment of us.
He wants to vent his hate and resentment and for us blacks to nod our heads in agreement.
Then, according to him, we will have reached a racial harmony accord.
To the Grinders of the world, us awful negroes just don't want to accept the ugly truth about ourselves and he's just trying to help.
puh-leeze.
Raina is a teenager. i invite her to join the grown folks convo when she is a ...grown folk. she needs a little more life experience before she weighs in talking about her...dad and his friends...as per usual.
Field, no, you are not necessarily what you attract. there are quite a few demons on assignment. their sole purpose is to prevent hosts (witting and UNwitting) from reaching their destiny and God given purpose. bw are being told we should settle and accept less. many are falling for that ish.
ok, i am going back up top to see what folks have to say.
blessings,
fcousedpurpose
The reality is this:
telling the truth does NOT constitute "bashing". changing, protecting, and providing for the so-called black community is the job of the BM.
UNTIL the MEN clock in and go to work according to their GOD given roles, bw talking about what they will do is an exercise in futility.
we are ALREADY seeing the effects of WOMEN attempting to function contrary to our God given roles.
bm are mia and bw need to jump ship and focus on our best interests. period.
"The black man knows he's incredibly valuable to black women"
In all sincerity...HOW SO?
"Do You Really Love Your People? said"
SPEAK!!!!!!!
WHERE ARE THE REAL, GOOD, BLACK MEN FOLKS LOVE TO TALK ABOUT AT???
THEY ARE AWFUL QUIET AREN'T THEY?
Something is up with my DSL.
"(Yes, we Black woman have had it hard too...but I'm sure we can all agree that Black men have had it much harder!) ""
I don't necessarily agree. Do you have further information or creditable sources to support this statement? Black women have always/still highly subjected to white racism and oppression as black males. We have always had the black and the female aspect to overcome, still trying. Not only do black females have to fear danger and oppression from white society, but we have to fear it from the same black community as well. I'm not trying to make this a contest, but I couldn't sit here and let that one slide.
Angie, due to the blatant IR disparity, single black female stats, and the aspect of black female discrimination imposed by some black men. I don't think it's fair to hold black women who are IR relationships to the same standards or rational as most of the black males in IRs.
And it's not about "hypocrisy" if you're in an IR relationship and still have the female balls to debunk and combat the deep seeded internalized racism still being imposed on many other black females. I too love a positive story, but I could never use it to negate or pacify any opposite experiences or feelings of MANY other black women.
I'm just going to come out and say this. There was also no need for you to soothe the black male ego in your post, or "mammy" dance your way to gain affirmation from black males like Steve. Look how he give you that pat on the back? You can't take a "mammy" ticket to the bank. The only people you sold out tonight were black women.
You don't have to be a black male apologist to appease whatever hidden 'guilt' you may have for dating outside your race. It's the most pragmatic thing for black women to do at this point, even if it's now done by conscious. I have much respect for you, but I've been in these fields too long to know when water has too much sugar in it.
As a Black man who has only dated (and was regularly rejected by) Black women, I can honestly say that too many sisters don't go after the so-called 'good brothers' when they're up and coming. Every sister opines about the Harvard educated brother with the 6 figure salary is walking around with the Italian model. But, when he was just the geeky Negro struggling through Cambridge, many a sister wouldn't give him the time of day.
Its my own experience so I'm so what biased. And honestly, I have a wonder Black queen in my life, so I don't have much of a dog in this one. But, many of my fellow educated Black male friends say the same thing -- Black women all but ignored them in high school and college but are ready to claw these brothers' eyes out now that they're successful and dating non-Black women.
The problem with Black love overblown (most Black folks still marry within their community). But its also is two fold. Too many Black men chase the 'Beckies' because they have been indoctrinated to believe that their own Black sisters (and their own reflection) are inferior. Sorry, but you can't tell me that Lamar Odom couldn't get a better looking sista than Khloe Kardashian. And I won't even touch Tiger. Honestly, Black men who disparage all Black women and chase exclusive white girls have seriously self loathing issues.
But, many a sister have unrealistic standards for Black men, or worse, no real standards at all. Smashed The Tiny Black Box is right, until many of our Black women look themselves in the mirror and honestly assess themselves, they'll always struggle to find someone.
I had to do the same thing. I kept wondering why I couldn't find a woman and when I did, she was either a manipulative snob or out right hood rat. The answer -- me. When I stopped looking at myself as a loser and started valuing my own value in God's eyes did I find my current love.
The problem is that many in our community, male and female, have abysmal self image. What you think about yourself is what you show to others, in one way or another. If all you attract are low down dogs, maybe you're sending our the sent of spiritual Purina dog chow. In my case, only the worse kind of women wanted to be with me because I had internalize my own lack of self worth. Good Black women don't want a self loathing loser who whines about his inadequencies. And good Black men don't want manipulators, over educated divas, mousy doormat or ghetto hood rats with no class. Until I learned to speak better of myself did I finally break free.
Until you can live your life alone and be ok, you'll always have problems in relationships. Its Pascal's 'God shaped hole' paradigm -- we're seeking to fill our spiritual selves with material things. And they just don't fit.
The only source of true happiness should be God. Looking for a woman or man to completely fulfill you is a recipe for disaster. You're simply putting a standard on this person he or she cannot possible obtain.
Hey UTS-
You said:
"I've heard from several honest white people that if a white is known to have dated blacks or especially a white guy who has dated a black woman, certain whites would never go near them again."
Don't suppose you ever heard of the same for ww dating bm? Or the staunch denial some of the bm crazed ww fall into when they are ready to coiff up and get married to wm?
LOL! I see you. Covet your Becky and stop taking swipes at the esteem of bw. Thanks.
Thanks dietcoke, LOL
Grinder, don't let the comments aggravate you. Grow with them. Sometimes you have to trudge through the mud to get to clearer water.
Thanks for your words of wisdom, Angie. You sound like a really good hearted soul, and a blessing to the people around you.
UTS-
You asked:
""I admit, many brothers have issues you don't find in other races."
and you asked, Such as what?
try incessant whining, a refusal to do what it takes, the expectation that BW will be stronger than they, the expectation that bw will carry them, the expectation that they should do what is easy or nothing at all, the refusal to compete with other men and behave as men, the refusal to stand as protectors and providers for their blk women and children, the refusal to accept responsibility, a rabid love of white skin despite NOT possessing it themselves, a tendency to denigrate and degrade their mothers and daughters publicly, and when they don't participate in such lunacy they still don't call it out and/or stand against it in any great numbers, the expectation that OTHERS will do more for them than they are willing to do for themselves,a refusal to STOP killing each other in record numbers, the inability to see the judicial system is stacked against them and STAY OUT OF IT, quell their violent aggressive tendencies and channel it into acquiring resources like other violent aggressive males do, ETC.
I could go on. For the dumb asses, note that I am not speaking of ALL bm. (We know you have decent bm in your family and have seen them on tv. THAT is NOT the point!) There are a few decent ones left. They are FAR outnumbered and awful quiet.
La♥Incognita said...
There was also no need for you to soothe the black male ego in your post, or "mammy" dance your way to gain affirmation from black males like Steve. Look how he give you that pat on the back? You can't take a "mammy" ticket to the bank. The only people you sold out tonight were black women.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This comment was so far out of line, you're in a new solar system.
My first question to you would be how old are you and my second would be have you ever had a good relationships with a Black man? Often when I see/hear comments like these I'm thinking here's a biter black woman.
Those few times when I dated the brotha from hell I ultimately had to blame myself because a person can only mistreat you if YOU allow it. Steve Harvey said it best (alhought I conceed he is NO authority on relationships) that women with standards are treated well because they require it. And real men will step up because they know they have to.
Black women need to stop having a pitty party, stop believeing the hype in the media and get a positive attitude about relationships.
AB said:
"la incognita:
ok
no more kola
and i agree with 100% of what u posting today
11:34 AM"
Praise God! The fighting between you two was not a good look!
Even with differing thoughts and views, sistahs must respect each other. If we don't respect ourselves, cries for others to respect us, ring hollow.
LAC, I respect all that you have said, but I just wanted to comment on a few things.
"But, many of my fellow educated Black male friends say the same thing -- Black women all but ignored them in high school and college but are ready to claw these brothers' eyes out now that they're successful and dating non-Black women."
I often hear black men with this rhyme, but I always wonder what proof they have that white girls would have wanted them at that time just the same. It's similar to that Wesley what's his name, he said black women didn't want him when he was broke, but did Asian women want him when he was broke? I doubt. LOL.
'
Like wise with black men towards black women, maybe even higher in my opinion and observation. And then there's that subliminal code to encourage black females to marry down, and make selfless sacrifices for the sake of having a black man's back. And we wonder why so many black women seem so bitter and feel immensely forsaken when they get hurt (if you see a donkey, ride her).
"The only source of true happiness should be God. Looking for a woman or man to completely fulfill you is a recipe for disaster. "
No wonder so many single lonely black women are being pimped and financially drained by the churches in the black community.
"The problem is that many in our community, male and female, have abysmal self image. What you think about yourself is what you show to others, in one way or another."
I agree. But where do we start? Where do we break that cycle? I can't truly speak for black boys, but little black girls, watching all these black men chasing Becky and Kiku isn't helping her esteem, is it? What signal is it giving little black boys and black girls who don't even have a father around to show them how a man can love and respect a black woman? The day a man stops cherishing his mother (the black womb), is the day he, his children and their children will become cursed.
I do respect your comment, but like I said, I had a few things to say. Peace and Blessings.
LAC, in my second paragraph response, I was quoting this statement you made below.
"But, many a sister have unrealistic standards for Black men"
When errors and things like this start happening to me, I know it's time for bed. :)
"My first question to you would be how old are you."
Much younger than you and making more sense, not like that takes much anyway.
under-arm jelly in my 40's:
Take your tap dance act somewhere else.
UTS said: “Angie I know that your first impulse is to be understanding and seek common ground but Grinder is a RACIST.”
UTS: Actually, my first impulse and reason for being in here is to learn…both from people I agree with, as well as those I disagree with. Being understanding and open to new ways of thinking is a part of that. The common ground I am here to reach has more to do with uplifting and supporting our community, than with patting people on the back…or having my back patted. At times I might agree with Grinder’s assessment of us…and at other times I might not. Still, I am interested in hearing what he has to say.
LaIncognita said: “I'm just going to come out and say this. There was also no need for you to soothe the black male ego in your post, or "mammy" dance your way to gain affirmation from black males like Steve…The only people you sold out tonight were black women.”
Hhhmmmm…we are damned if we do…damned if we don’t. LOL! It was never my intention to soothe anyone’s ego, but if I did, I hope it helped in some way. There is some heavy baggage being tossed around in here, in my opinion, both from Black men and women. Many of us could use some hugs!! LOL..
Statistics aside, many of our Black men are treated daily as if they are some kind of threat to people…women grabbing their purses or exiting elevators when they are near. DWB incidents….people often refuse to listen to a Black man’s voice when crimes are committed…Black men being painted as the villains in murders simply because some people are QUICK to believe the worst in them….being tracked into certain careers because people think they are “naturally” suited for them…Black men injected with syphilis by our government because they were considered to be less than White men, White women AND Black women put together. This list drags on way too far…so as much as I respect you and the insightful thoughts you share with us, I am still inclined to reiterate this thought as my own: though Black women have it hard, Black men have had and still do have it much harder.
That being said, I didn’t see any Black women being sold out in here…but those who feel as if they were might do good to look within and examine their sense of self-worth. In my opinion, it’s not always about how many “whammies” you may think you have against you. As a (1) Black (2) woman in Japan, I am treated, for the most part, far better than any (1) Chinese man. So just because we may have two strikes against us as Black women in America, we shouldn’t automatically assume that those strikes carry more weight than that strike associated with being a Black man.
I have no hidden guilt regarding my choice to date outside our race. Not to psychoanalyze myself but I was merely posting (in the spirit of being ‘proactive’) how I felt regarding these comments before they appeared. These are the type of taunts that I am often left to swim in whenever there are such discussions as this and people learn I am dating a Japanese man. Maybe it was presumptuous to assume that anyone here would think as such…and maybe it is equally presumptuous to assume to know when the water we all share has “too much” sugar in it. There are too many people (all with different experiences, ideals and ways of expressing themselves) in here drinking from the same cup. People should be free to acknowledge their own tastes and preferences without having the cup tossed in their faces.
LaC said: "If all you attract are low down dogs, maybe you're sending our the sent of spiritual Purina dog chow."
LOL....now that just made my night!! I can't stop laughing...
Angie, why put the statistics aside? If you like listening to what pretentious bigots like grinder have to say, then you should be able to handle the holy statistics.
If black men don't like being stereotyped by racist outsiders, then more good ones should stop being silent, and stop playing hand pointing denial games. More black men should do something about other black males who have been feeding these statistics for years and putting them all at risk. Most of the predatory type black males practice on the black community before they move on to general society. You think it's fair for black women to always cry a river or wear black T-shirts because Becky stereotyped a black man and it hurt his feelings? What about our feelings?
It’s the black woman whose purse is actually being snatched. It’s the black female who is actually being raped for practice in the elevator. It’s the black female who is at prey while she sleeps, because the predator knows no other black man is around to protector her. It's the black woman who also fears jacking, or being ravished by racist troopers for DWB and FEMALE. Who is going to give her the benefit? It is a black woman despite all the hardship, who applies herself in college, only to become the growing threat to white men in the corporate job market. And therefore, risk being constantly harassed, humiliated, framed, black balled, and Heaven knows what as retribution.
Furthermore, ask that grand wizard in the pink hood to find the stats on the growing numbers of black females in prison. Prostituted and pimped by black males, embezzling money for a black males – or to feed children abandoned by black males, Killing someone over a black male - or killing him because of abuse, drug trafficking for black males, being sexually injected with HIV/AIDS, via black males/husbands, and the list goes on... All that violin material you said in your "statistic aside" paragraph can easily be applied to black females in reverse scenarios.
"people often refuse to listen to a Black man’s voice when crimes are committed."
Bullshit. We do! Black women have always listened to the voices of black males when it comes to our sons, brothers, fathers... even when some are guilty as hell. We have always forsaken the virtue and feelings of our daughters for the benefit and protection of our sons. Most black women in the black community help encourage and perpetuate half the crap and misogyny that plague us as women. But who listens to us? Who protects and stands up for us? We don't even listen to each other. Some of us are so busy being "fair" to protect the black man's ego, and hope they feel all better. Don't mommy them. They say black women don't give them the chance to be big strong men. LOL.
"I have no hidden guilt regarding my choice to date outside our race.'
At least you admit it was a choice, Most black men don't, they say black women push them into it, or they say dishonest shit like "you can't help who you fall in love with". LOL.
"As a (1) Black (2) woman in Japan, I am treated, for the most part, far better than any (1) Chinese man."
Angie, could it be that your treatment is based on you as an individual? Maybe it's your personality, you seem to be a pleasant person. And I don't mean to negate your personal observation or experience. However, black women are not migrating to Japan in droves like Chinese men. We may not be seen as an economical or social migrating threat in that aspect. I'm inclined to suspect that they do think you're inferior to Chinese men, but because of actual prejudice towards blacks, they don't think of you as an 'intellectual' threat as compared. Therefore, as a black female you're overlooked without direct or competitive malice, and intern you interpret this as respect or better treatment. Just a thought.
And yes, you are also entitled to your voice, and I respect that. I also respect the black males who respect and honor that black woman. The black men who do what they are expected to do as men and as fathers, and the ones who don’t internalize hard discussions such as these.
12/16/09
Anonymous said...
under-arm jelly in my 40's:
Take your tap dance act somewhere else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey you hatin' FUCKER, why don't you post your pic? Oh my bad, you big fat ugly ass probably wouldn't fit the size requirements for an avatar.
You know it's dumb as hell to post with both a username then as anonymous.
Now what else would you like me to go public about in regards to you? How about how broke your dumb ass is.
LI, "We may not be seen as an economical or social migrating threat in that aspect. I'm inclined to suspect that they do think you're inferior to Chinese men, but because of actual prejudice towards blacks, they don't think of you as an 'intellectual' threat as compared. Therefore, as a black female you're overlooked without direct or competitive malice, and intern you interpret this as respect or better treatment. Just a thought."
It's just like you to negate others direct experience with your own deluded miserable experience. It's not the Chinese men who are putting down bw, you have done just that yourself through your depressed imaginings and low self-worth.
You have got to be the most negative and sickest person on the planet when it comes to anything postive for black women.
LA "At least you admit it was a choice, Most black men don't, they say black women push them into it, or they say dishonest shit like "you can't help who you fall in love with". LOL."
So sorry you got screwed over by your man. But you cannot equate your experience with most bm.
Why don't you tell us about your pain? It could be quite cathartic and everyone might be able to understand your bitterness toward bm.
@Anon 9:29: You missed the point, it was the japanese who think it {rolling eyes}. I can't wait to see how long this topic goes.
@flynmy40's: How do you know when a Anon is broke? Do bloggers pay for avatars? {{{LOL}}}
@Anon 9:00 PM: You and LI are my sheros :)}
LI said:"Furthermore, ask that grand wizard in the pink hood to find the stats on the growing numbers of black females in prison. Prostituted and pimped by black males, embezzling money for a black males – or to feed children abandoned by black males, Killing someone over a black male - or killing him because of abuse, drug trafficking for black males, being sexually injected with HIV/AIDS, via black males/husbands, and the list goes on... All that violin material you said in your "statistic aside" paragraph can easily be applied to black females in reverse scenarios."
As I mentioned, I am here to learn...so thank you all (especially you, LI) for your wisdom. I think the thing that got me the most about this particular blog is that we, as Black women, were asked to 'boycott' Black men, as if they ALONE are the root of problems in OUR community. They are not.
In that link to BOYCOTTBLACKMEN.COM, I don't recall seeing a request to boycott Black women who have "abandoned" our community. And even above, LI eloquently wrote of ills that some of us Black women have to face. Or do we? Sure, Black men make a choice as to how they treat us...and we have no control over that. We do, on the other hand, have control over the choices we make...which includes how we allow ourselves to be treated.
So my point is (after reading the site and LI's post): must we Black women ALLOW ourselves to be the booty shakers and "meat" represented in these music videos? Do we NEED to shell out our hard-earned money to companies that support and/or encourage the demise of our community? Need we ALLOW ourselves to be prostituted and pimped by the black males who are inclined to make a living that way? Must WE embezzle money for black males? Do WE not have a plan in case our children are abandoned by black males? Must WE Kill someone over a black male - or kill them because abuse us? Must WE traffic drugs for black males? Knowing that there are chances to contract HIV/AIDS through sex with black males/husbands, do WE not feel it important to protect ourselves? And yes, that list goes on as well. As we demand that Black men take responsibility for the choices they make regarding our community, we must be willing to do the same. Maybe we need to ask ourselves whether or not pointing fingers, calling people names, belittling people's voices because we don't agree and digging up statistics is REALLY what is useful in regards to turning our community around. With all the BRILLIANT minds in here, where are our SOLUTIONS??
We've got some serious ills people...and I don't see how effective it is to cut away only HALF the cancer. Both Black women and Black men need to step up to the plate. We BOTH need to find ways to be better people and parents, better mentors and role models, better listeners and communicators, better educators, better bankers for our families/descendants... and better members of OUR community. So, as I grace your ears with my Stradivarius, maybe we could put aside our petty disagreements long enough to write down some ideas/suggestions that may actually help us become a better community. Just a thought...
Any ideas before I list mine?
fn:
here is another classic video on bf myths
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdD-wBoDdk&feature=related
uts:
one more video
4 u
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6oxp7uM_HA&NR=1
Anon9:46pm, "@Anon 9:29: You missed the point, it was the japanese who think it {rolling eyes}. I can't wait to see how long this topic goes."
Whether the Japanese or Chinese think it, YOU missed the point. But keep rolling those eyes Anon. that way we can see you...at night.
UTS "He wants to vent his hate and resentment and for us blacks to nod our heads in agreement.
Then, according to him, we will have reached a racial harmony accord.
To the Grinders of the world, us awful negroes just don't want to accept the ugly truth about ourselves and he's just trying to help."
uts, your mind is twisted. you are very sick. grinder has said nothing even remotely related to your conclusion you sick dog.
Well -- I think I need a cigarette after reading these comments!
Wow.
Thank you FN for kicking this discussion off just right!
Look at what you started!
Alicia Banks, Smashed The Tiny Black Box, Brenda, RainaHavock and Anon97 -- thank you for being compassionate. I wish our commentary was recorded!
And Uptown Steve...
I wish for you to meet people who are emotionally healthy and personally content with their lives. Wallowing in anger and bitterness will never be a good look.
I said: "I have no hidden guilt regarding my choice to date outside our race.'
LI replied: "At least you admit it was a choice, Most black men don't, they say black women push them into it, or they say dishonest shit like "you can't help who you fall in love with". LOL."
Oh...just to get the nuances right...I was not saying that I made some conscious decision or effort to exclude Black men from the men I chose to date. I meant that when I was single, a nice Japanese men came into my life...and I CHOSE to date him.
Grinder: "Thanks for your words of wisdom, Angie. You sound like a really good hearted soul, and a blessing to the people around you."
Grinder, still have a long way to go...but the fun is in trying to better myself. I, for one, am interested in hearing what you have to say regarding this blog. Feel free to email your thoughts if you have reservations about posting them here.
fn/uts...
more proof here the wm LOVE to see wfs do bm
http://www.alternet.org/sex/144555/tiger_woods_syndrome%3A_how_the_golf_star%27s_affair_will_help_him_win_our_hearts_and_minds
"...and we have no control over that. We do, on the other hand, have control over the choices we make...which includes how we allow ourselves to be treated."
You should have directed this statement to BM in your original post instead of defending them. You wanted to be a mammie, just admit it. BW are waking up and getting tired of your type.
I, for one, am interested in hearing what you have to say regarding this blog. Feel free to email your thoughts if you have reservations about posting them here.
Oh, hell, I don't have any problem posting my thoughts right here.
I don't always see eye to eye with Field, but I respect him and his views quite a bit. He makes me think in a different way. If I only engaged with people who I agree with, life would be really boring.
The commenters here are a very mixed bag, which I suppose includes me. We're all too predictable, and afraid of stepping outside of our comfort zones. I try to do it, but I'm sure I fail. Others here, who will go nameless for now, are pure one-notes and they bore me more than anything else.
The incessant accusations that I'm a racist get old, but so be it. The occasional shots at my sexual orientation genuinely amuse me, because they are always really dated and hackneyed (such as when La I asked me if I wear a tutu, and UTS called me "tinkerbell"), and they reveal much more about the person who makes those comments than they do about me.
To put those things in a different way: You find out what people really think when they're mad at you, so when people get mad and call me a white racist faggot I consider it useful information.
Beyond all of that, I don't generalize what the commenters, or Field, write here to include all black people. I got over the "all black people are alike" idea a long time ago. That idea is a creature of de facto segregation, and I was fortunate to live in Washington, D.C. for a few years where I had daily interactions with black people at all levels.
I find that, when it comes to the comments here, I get a lot more out of the fully anonymous commenters, and the occasional ones, than I do out of most of the regulars. I do wish Black Diaspora would say more here. I miss that person's intelligence; even when we disagreed, I always felt that BD had her brain in gear.
Oh, and that one comment you made was fantastic. Really, it was. If you lived in Seattle, you'd be someone I'd want to know as a friend.
uts, your mind is twisted. you are very sick. grinder has said nothing even remotely related to your conclusion you sick dog.
Well, you're right, but have some sympathy for UTS. He's just one more guy who doesn't want to do any real thinking.
America is full of UTSs. At all levels, and in all places. It's a whole lot easier, in lots of different ways, to rely on caricatures than on real thought that might actually cause a person to re-think their assumptions.
UTS, and some other regulars here, can only quiet the shitstorm inside of their own head by thinking of themselves as victims no matter what. The alternative is just too damn scary to contemplate.
A in J-
the suggestion/solution for the website linked is to simply withdraw support of those that do not demonstrate support of us as bw. demand and command reciprocity.NOW. that WAS a suggestion. if you go back and read what LA said, you will see she clarified, quite well, what the website was suggesting from her perspective. the bathwater needs discarding. sane, healthy bw are NOT suggesting to discard the baby as well.
as per usual folks started waxing poetic about men from days LONG gone by, their fathers and his friends, as if anyone was referring to THEM or ALL BM.
as per usual folks started suggesting that anyone courageous enough to tell the truth, is simply "bitter", "angry", "male bashing" etc. those silencing tactics trouble me NOT in the least. my question is always, am i lying? i.will.not.be.silent. nor will i wait to seize my freedom. i am not asking for permission nor apologizing either. i.am.NOT.sorry.
whenever confronted with the undeniable truth folks suddenly want to switch gears and suggest bm AND bw should come together and work it out. that is usually the FIRST stop.
in reality, BM must stand up, in far greater numbers and hold themselves accountable and responsible to function as men. MEN regulate the behavior of OTHER MEN. BM have a grip of work to do as men, BEFORE even suggesting bw show up and assist THEM. history bears witness to the fact that bw and bchildren can/will stand on the frontlines and when it is time for reciprocity...there.is.none. as evidenced by folks' quiet daddies when it is time to shame the devil and tell the truth about WHO is being used to DESTROY other bm, bw, and bchildren. or if they bother to tell it, they do it in hushed tones, while YELLING for all to hear their grievances with some bw and most wm. lol! stop.
solution: bw MUST stand against the females (be clear, i don't think they are WOMEN) that are trotted out to do the bidding of assbackwards males (don't consider them MEN either) and damage greatly other bw and bgs in the process. all in a futile effort to curry favor with males that don't respect themselves or anyone else for that matter.
sending out females to attack/exploit/set up other women and girls is NOT behavior that is bfolks specific either. look. see. you ALWAYS need folks from the oppressed group to aide and abeit in order for the oppression plan to progress. it is for this reason, i call such females out. promptly. these folks require light so they can scurry back into their darkness. anyone that follows has exercised their free will and choice...to their detriment.
A in J, i don't think it is a truthful statement to say that bw fare better in this sexist WORLD than other MEN. not even in Japan. may i suggest that you stop that? thanks.
notice how quickly you came back with all the ways that BW are responsible for their own oppression/degradation? you ask do they have to CHOOSE?...
for the record i agree with you on these facts. i also believe that the same logic can be applied to bm. yet for some reason, folks (male and female) refuse to apply it.
i say it plain, at THIS point for bw, there are no victims.(barring the UNprotected baby girls and young ladies, that are being eaten alive in so-called bcommunities---THAT'S a whole other Oprah!) yet somehow even as it relates to bgirls, folks will choose to hold a little black GIRL more responsible than they will a grown azz male in these instances. when folks learn that grown men are impregnating twelve and thirteen year olds, watch how folks DON'T deal with HIM (he has immunity/protection/and a grip of folks making a grip of excuses it seems) but will start talking about how "fast" she was...
i am addressing grown women now. NO victim. VOLUNTEER. knock it off.
if i am not mistaken, when folks started to speak real talk about quite a few bmales, you started talking about your dad. didn't you have a MOTHER that stood in the gap, sacrificed, worked diligently, etc?
how are you able to distinguish/understand/acknowledge/address/speak of IMMEDIATELY the foul females? complete with suggesting they accept responsibility and accountability? yet seeming incapable or unwilling to do it as it applies to bmales?
you seem ready to throw out stats that support the truth, that when sane, awake bw stand and speak (LA and AB I stand in solidarity) it is NOT a matter of "bitterness" it is a matter of speaking the truth? seeking justice. seeking freedom.
i personally don't think that bfemales that do this are doing anything other than playing the nutrole. (Khadijah, STILL putting miles on that one!:-) i can't get with patty caking grown folks.
yes, you are entitled to have an opinion and your own voice. i am simply inquiring as to how you would explain how lop-sided it is?
LA you called it right the first time.
i will come back as time permits with other possible solutions...
SOLUTION:
Bw must reserve the right to think freely, critically, and our best interests at ALL times. first and finally.
we must stop, PRONTO, with the "individual" nonsense. notice other groups band together and work together irrespective of their differences to protect their best interests. there is strength in numbers.
SOLUTION:
bw MUST cut off ALL access to our resources from those that DEMONSTRATE a lack of reciprocity. period.
this will require discipline. this will require sacrifice.
this will require strategic thinking.
this will require bw working together focusing on our common interests rather than screaming to the high heavens "we are not a monolith." and other self-defeating mantras. (for the record ww, jw, aw, wm, etc are NOT monoliths either. that is BESIDE the point.)
this will require quite a few in black skin being cut off. the greatest damage in done by INTERNAL forces these days.
bw MUST understand that we can only be as strong as our weakest link. if that link resists strengthening it must be cut off. (consequences! what are the consequences currently for anything?)
excuses are killing folks. just as men regulate the behavior of other men. WOMEN regulate the behavior of other women.
the mature women teach the younger ones the truth and the way. they don't stand back and watch their daughters fall and pretend it is someone else's concern. or worse yet act as cowards afraid to open their mouths. this behavior is a disservice to our ancestors, our children, and ourselves.
SOLUTION:
bw MUST only date, mate and procreate with MEN that demonstrate an understanding of their God given roles as men. MEN provide for and protect their women and children.
SOLUTION:
bw MUST tell the truth to themselves and others. "baby momma" is disgraceful. "wives" have babies. if he doesn't believe in that, he is not interested to procreate...with you. BW will be the ones to establish this boundary. as long as we stand and make excuses pretending their terms are interchangeable and just as honorable---we aide in our wholesale dishonoring and the tarnishing of our image. in the absence of establishing boundaries we simply churn out, if that, fodder to be destroyed rather than the nation we were designed to birth.
these are my thoughts. of course i have more.
i would be interested to hear Ain J's as well as any others.
i advocate love of self (one that hates discipline, hates themselves), self acceptance, and self respect. in these principles i can say with conviction and peace, ALL that refuse to do anything other than to take, abuse, use, and exploit, should be boycotted. if there are bmales that receive this treatment, it offends me not.
check the statistics and see WHO murders, rapes, exploits, threatens the safety bw more than anyone else these days. folks need to get real honest real fast.
Grinder, I stepped out of my comfort zone looooong ago when I moved here. Reading over a string of virtual taunts is child's play in comparison. LOL...
I'm sure there are a LOT of people who just don't get me...but you know what? That is OK...(there is so much more and so many more truths to life than what WE think). The mix of being raised in the South by a GREAT MOTHER and GREAT FATHER and then moving to establish residency in a foreign country has given me my own truth. It is mine to enjoy.
I, like you, don't need or expect to have my ideas or comments "affirmed" in here by anybody. I come because I enjoy sharing my thoughts and learning from other people and their ways of thinking (those different views that further shape us as people). I really enjoy BD, as well. She is a VERY classy person.
AS for DC, I got my degree from GWU! Loved that area.
grinder "I don't always see eye to eye with Field, but I respect him and his views quite a bit. He makes me think in a different way. If I only engaged with people who I agree with, life would be really boring."
I have mentioned on occasions how I appreciate your thoughts and informative links that you provide in your comments. Months ago, I was sad when you decided to leave this blog because of mean-spirited people like LI and a few others, who seemed to be trying to drive you away. IMO, they are the one-dimensional thinkers-if you can call it that.
But I was very glad when you returned. I enjoy and get a lot from your comments, links and facts.
You are not a racist, imo.
Some folks are so defensive and fragile that they are unable to hear 'straight talk' from a white person without seeing the person as a racist. But it is really their own projections-IMO- that they are seeing....
As a wise author once said, "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."
I am glad you don't shy away but stand your ground. In these so-called 'post-racial' times, that is a very courageous and admirable quality to have. That quality alone, sets you above those few who routinely call you a racist.
Peace.
AIJ, "I really enjoy BD, as well. She is a VERY classy person."
Angie, you are also a classy person. Btw, is BD a woman or a man? I thought BD was a man. Will someone please clear that up for me?
"I'm sure there are a LOT of people who just don't get me...but you know what? That is OK...(there is so much more and so many more truths to life than what WE think)."
I get you and you are right..there is soooo much more to truth than what we think. It sounds like you are enjoying life in Japan, and you are involved with a wonderful supportive man. You have good karma.
FP said: "A in J, i don't think it is a truthful statement to say that bw fare better in this sexist WORLD than other MEN. not even in Japan. may i suggest that you stop that?"
Well, you could suggest that I stop...but I won't! LOL. Yes, FP, against the odds, there are some BW who do fare better than some men. Maybe the weight of being BLACK (closely followed by gender) carries the heaviest weight for us BW in the States...but in some places around the world, particularly in Asia, nationality issues weigh in more. Why don't you come for a visit? You just might find yourself pleasantly surprised.
FP: "notice how quickly you came back with all the ways that BW are responsible for their own oppression/degradation? you ask do they have to CHOOSE?..."
Well, actually I think I came back with some examples of how OUR active participation and choices, as BW, HELP PROVIDE the vehicles that people use to oppress and degrade us. I am a strong believer in fixing self first...and Black women have a lot of fixing to do. As a Black female, I realize how bad we have it. Yes, we are victimized, yes, we are discriminated against...and YES, we are treated poorly by some Black men, some of whom pass over us simply because they assume being with a White woman is better (Japanese woman here). Yes, I know all of that as well as you do...but I also know, as you mentioned, that we BW have choices to exercise.
FP: "i also believe that the same logic can be applied to bm. yet for some reason, folks (male and female) refuse to apply it. if i am not mistaken, when folks started to speak real talk about quite a few bmales, you started talking about your dad. didn't you have a MOTHER that stood in the gap, sacrificed, worked diligently, etc? "
Sure, I know that, FP...and I have my moments where I am as critical of BM, too. I've been chastised repeatedly in here (talking about people playing MOMMY...LOL!) since posting to this blog because I am supposedly "defending" Black men. I see BM standing on their own two feet, watching...as the other half of the Black equation critiques them. I could have jumped on the bandwagon loaded with BW telling their stories and theories (the majority without statistics, mind you!!)...but I chose to focus on another side of this story for this particular blog. Now, I could ask you all to not assume to know why I did that but I won't. That's your free will and choice. It's not that I always refuse to apply the same logic to both BW and BM...I simply refused to apply it to the particular posts I have chosen to respond to. As for my mother, I am glad you asked. Had that inital post been about boycotting Black women, I would have told you all about her and how great she is, as well...(oh, and my sister, grandmother, aunts and cousins, too.). My mother?? Oh...just as many wonderful things as I said about my father...and that's my mother! LOL! My father might have been the head of the table, but my mother WAS the table. WIthout her, sitting down would have held little meaning for us. By the way, she was the one who taught me to focus on 'including' people instead of excluding or fragmenting groups of people.
FP: "how are you able to distinguish/understand/acknowledge/address/speak of IMMEDIATELY the foul females? complete with suggesting they accept responsibility and accountability? yet seeming incapable or unwilling to do it as it applies to bmales?"
So, it's OK for some people in here to be BRUTALLY critical of BM...and not OK for others to be critical of BW and suggest that WE be more accountable for the decisions we choose to make in our lives?* LOL...if I may say so, my voice and opinion aren't the only "lop-sided" things in this discussion!! (LOL)
FP: "i will come back as time permits with other possible solutions..."
Good! I found some of your thoughts enlightening. Thank you.
Hello ANON@4:19. Thank you for warming my FREEZING winter day. We must have gotten almost two feet of snow today.
Thanks for the heads up regarding the male/female issue . Apologies BD if I got it wrong!!!
Yes, I really am enjoying life (minus the snow and cold at this moment!!). I feel so fortunate to have experienced both cultures...and all the challenges they represent. Stay warm...
A-I-J said: "...and we have no control over that. We do, on the other hand, have control over the choices we make...which includes how we allow ourselves to be treated."
ANON@7:22 said: "You should have directed this statement to BM in your original post instead of defending them. You wanted to be a mammie, just admit it. BW are waking up and getting tired of your type."
Mammy? Geez...I hadn't heard that word tossed around so much since grade school. In my opinion, whether or not BW are tired of my type is the least of our problems. LOL...
Honestly, I'm glad that you are finally "waking up." Now the most important step involves what you DO and BE now that you are awake. Best wishes...
FP said:
"i advocate love of self (one that hates discipline, hates themselves), self acceptance, and self respect. in these principles i can say with conviction and peace, ALL that refuse to do anything other than to take, abuse, use, and exploit, should be boycotted. if there are bmales that receive this treatment, it offends me not."
Nice thoughts!! I am looking at this from an "institutional" angle. Will try to log on later this weekend, if I have time.
"check the statistics and see WHO murders, rapes, exploits, threatens the safety bw more than anyone else these days. folks need to get real honest real fast."
(As this is your statement, please PROVIDE the statistics, if you don't mind.)
A in J-
thanks for the respectful exchange.
you said:
"there are some BW who do fare better than some men. Maybe the weight of being BLACK (closely followed by gender) carries the heaviest weight for us BW in the States...but in some places around the world, particularly in Asia, nationality issues weigh in more."
yes. true statement in my opinion. had i written that statement, i would have put emphasis on "some". there are some bm that fare better than wm. anyone pretending this is the overall condition or state of affairs is not telling the truth and need to stop. that was my initial point.
in most places around the world,nationality issues weigh in more. THIS fact is the very reason, sane, conscious, thinking, courageous bw are saying wait a minute.
even in america, nationality issues weigh in more A in J. yet for some odd reason, embracing black bw within black constructs has managed to never come into style. ( i deliberately said black bw. i am NOT speaking of the obsession with biracial or bw that are white looking in hue and features within black constructs)
A in J you said:
"Yes, FP, against the odds, there are some BW who do fare better than some men."
i pull that out and ask you to consider that in america, despite great odds, in greater numbers, bw are doing just that.
our "brothers" have decided that this is indicative of life being easier for bw than it is for bm. it is unpopular and labelled as "bashing" to even suggest that more bm MUST stand up and do what is good FOR them rather than what feels good TO them.
AS for DC, I got my degree from GWU!
Great school. Your intelligence shines in your words here, so it comes as no surprise that you went there.
Anon 4:01, thanks very much for your comments, and have a great holiday season.
A in J-
you said:
"Well, actually I think I came back with some examples of how OUR active participation and choices, as BW, HELP PROVIDE the vehicles that people use to oppress and degrade us. I am a strong believer in fixing self first..."
as i said initially, i AGREE, that more bw must understand that as grown women we are responsible for our choices, boundaries, and holding ourselves accountable to NOT aid and abet our would be oppressors in oppressing us. that is what i meant when i said there are no victims at a certain point, only volunteers.
in the interest of balance, i am simply wondering how/why you refuse to apply that SAME right thinking to bm. you have indicated that that you have your reasons (and i am sure they are good ones) and you are not interested to divulge them. that is fine. life is about choices.
introspection, reflection, innerwork, emotional discipline, and greater love, acceptance, respect of self is needed by BOTH bw AND bm. the calls for bw to get some are loud, brutal, and shouted out as reasons to justify the continued mistreatment of bw. notice how very few call that "bashing" or try to protect the women and girls from it.
please know that when you and other bw that exercise such choices in convos like these, and refuse to apply balance, come with that, "let's not bash bm. all bm are not that way, i have a great dad, why don't bw look at themselves, you are what you attract" train of thought while complying with the unspoken rule that at no time can the psyche of the bm hear the truth; it sounds real foul, lopsided, and like you have adopted the mammy and protect bm to their detriment mentality. bw continuing that madness is yet another way those that do it are complicit in their own oppression.
treating bm like little ladyboys that just can't handle any type of truth, responsibility, or accountability is to their and all that cross their paths detriment. it does not work. look. see.
(i am pressed for time and typing fast. please excuse any typos:-)
blessings,
focusedpurpose
A in J said in response to my statement of:
check the statistics and see WHO murders, rapes, exploits, threatens the safety bw more than anyone else these days. folks need to get real honest real fast.
"(As this is your statement, please PROVIDE the statistics, if you don't mind.)"
my reply:
i am not trying to rude nor funny. i am trying to be clear.
when folks REALLY want to know something they will go get the information for themselves. you have access to the internet.
i don't believe in spoon feeding folks, nor do i have the time. if you were a child, my approach would be different.
i was taught and believe that if you are unaware of something, IF you want to change that ignorant condition, you will look it up.
thanks again for a pleasant exchange.
blessings in abundance,
focusedpurpose
Angie-in-Japan,
GWU is a great University...one of the best. It is good to see bw such as yourself doing well and not frittering your life away trying to boycott bm.
FP, you have spoken volumes. So much truth and wisdom in your statements, it would take me all day to highlight and elaborate on all that you have stated.
FP said: "in the interest of balance, i am simply wondering how/why you refuse to apply that SAME right thinking to bm."
I think this is a key observation. It was the knee jerker for me when I read Angie's first comment. I think it even says a lot about how some of us black women feel or think about each other.
There was another thread a while ago where Angie didn't even give Samantha Orobator the benefit of the doubt considering that sexist and racist country in Asia (go figure). Even on this thread, I'm sure you can count more people who were against the website as well as advocating for their fathers and brothers (as if the site relates to all black men). So, I'm curious to know what scale some people use to measure their "balance" for advocacy in these discussions.
Furthermore, I too hold black women accountable, and I would never say we are exempt. However, I don't know what society some black people speak about when they claim black females don't get called out or penalized for these very poor decisions. We hear about the finger wagging at black girls and black mothers everyday, especially when a black child commits a crime. But are we not tired calling out black females and black mothers for the denigration of the black race/black communities? How far are we getting with that lame song post slavery? When are more black people going to hold more black males accountable for their transgressions to themselves, black females and to others?? Why do we always wait until black males do something extreme like kill four cops in a donut shop before we become appalled and concerned.
It's also no surprise seeing how black women who are courageous enough to stand up for the collective voices of oppressed black females to be heard, will always be stigmatized as bitter, unhappy, troubled, manless etc etc and etc. Yet you must wonder about the black female who chose to emancipate herself mentally and physically from the concerns of other black women, but still holds an allegiance to pacify and protect the black male. I think women such as these are the ones truly wrestling with bigger internalized demons, Only they know how the demons got there, and only they can fight them off for themselves.
Peace and Blessings,
"Some folks are so defensive and fragile that they are unable to hear 'straight talk' from a white person without seeing the person as a racist"
LOL. More lopsided advocacy. If you weren't pacifying the resident racist with his known white denial protectionism, I wouldn't have been so inclined to respond. No other white commenter (except blatant trolls) gets more defensive and fragile on this blog than grider when it's time to discuss white racism. LOL. grinder can keep his 'straight talk' to himself until he learns to talk straight about white racism and it's privileges.
Unbelievable.
LI, "grinder can keep his 'straight talk' to himself until he learns to talk straight about white racism and it's privileges."
LOL. You are so blind. You still can't see your own racist projections of "perfectionism". You are talking to yourself in a mirror but you don't recognize yourself. Instead of trying to control grinder and complain about his faults, try cleaning up your own glaring flaws, first.
Unbelievable and pathetic.
I read the "edumacated sista's" article in the Wash. Post. These articles are all the same. It's the same typical let's tend to the wound, while we ignore what inflicted the wound in the first place.
We always hear about how there is a good black man shortage, but we fail to ask who in fact raised these men. Weren't they raised by and large by their mothers? How did they turn out to be so worthless? *crickets* Naturally, it's all the black man's fault. At least that's what all these articles either boldly claim and/or insinuate. Black women have no culpability. They were just hapless victims, standing by helplessly and then amazingly got impregnated by shiftless, up to no good bums who abandoned them. Alas, it's not like they actually chose to carelessly procreate with the dregs of society. These black men all appeared to be intellectuals of the highest order, but immediately when they found out that they got their women pregnant, they started shuking and jiving and gave up all intellectual and economic advancement.
But like Bob Dylan said, times r a changing!!! The black women got them some degrees now. Now these shiftless black men can't handle it. They ain't strong enough to handle an administrative assistant in a pant suit!!
Ironically, black marriage was very high prior to the civil rights movement. A lot of the issues we have now like out of wedlock pregnancies were not problems then. We have actually socially regressed. Reflect on that! Then ask yourself what happened.
Take note, you don't see articles like this from most of the black diaspora around the world. Only in the US & UK. They are busy loving each other, not promoting sites called "boycott black men" or saying stupid things like "bitch is the new black". What many black women fail to realize when they castigate black men is that "good black men" fall under the black man umbrella. It really gets old.
Brothers, the well here is poisoned. Meet a black woman from the diaspora. Africa, Caribbean, Central/South America. Anywhere else but the US/UK. They do not have this cultural sickness. They actually respect and like black men, and they don't equate having a degree with eligibility. Most educated american black women think that somehow the fact that they have degrees means that they must be a good catch, as if having a degree means you are a good person or are even marriage material. When was the last time any of you saw a non black american woman lament about not finding a man because she has a college degree? A flimsy piece of paper! It's almost laughable at this point.
Go on, attack the messenger.
Average Brother, "Brothers, the well here is poisoned. Meet a black woman from the diaspora. Africa, Caribbean, Central/South America. Anywhere else but the US/UK. They do not have this cultural sickness. They actually respect and like black men, and they don't equate having a degree with eligibility. Most educated american black women think that somehow the fact that they have degrees means that they must be a good catch, as if having a degree means you are a good person or are even marriage material."
Preach it, brother! I agree 100% and I am sure many bm do also.
La YOU spoke volumes here as well sis. as i said before, i stand in solidarity!
Average Bro-
you said:
"We always hear about how there is a good black man shortage, but we fail to ask who in fact raised these men. Weren't they raised by and large by their mothers? How did they turn out to be so worthless?"
i say:
you answered your own question. now if you and other "average brothers" would apply some accountability and responsibility to the equation, you would see that it is imperative that more bm stand up and go to work, inside and outside of the home.
note as well that NO OTHER WOMAN on the planet is expected to socialize boys to be men by themselves.
also factor in the truth that men/fathers are needed to teach their daughters how to navigate the world of games that quite a few boys and men will bring to them in an effort to secure sex. the absence of bm is hurting the promise (children-both sexes) of the black nation. more bm MUST hold themselves accountable and responsible to function as MEN and cease and desist immediately with the practice of impregnating women with which they have no desire to raise the children born of these unions.
i have said plainly numerous times that bw MUST not have coffee much less children with males that demonstrate they have no concept of what true manhood entails. providing for and protecting the women and children is the job description of MAN.
until bm acknowledge this truth within themselves, it doesn't matter WHERE they go or the nationality/color of the women they take up with. watch the same behavior and side effects play out.
i for one though, am not even REMOTELY saddened to hear that average bros are taking their dysfunctional show on the road. i am not an average sister and have NOT ever believed there to be a shortage of good men.
for the record, i see clearly the internal/external annihilation efforts directed at bm. quite a few bm are cavalier, complacent and unmotivated to hold themselves accountable to preserve themselves. my belief is that if bm don't care, bw can't afford to care. self preservation is the first law of nature. bw must focus our energy, efforts, and resources on saving ourselves.
blessings,
focusedpurpose
Avg Bro-
you may find yourself having quite a difficult time securing a relationship with an African woman. African American bm are NOT the business. see, ALL folks are not pretending that it is ONLY the bw that is responsible for the mess that has come to be quite a few bm. Africans actually prize their children.
i think this may also explain why you don't read of the women of the diaspora lamenting males that give their offspring the same afterthought they do their bowel movements. in these cultures, the men have not resorted to such shameful, disgraceful, dispicable, survival threatening behavior.
it is interesting to note that rather than address other bm, the average bro wants to take shots at bw that despite many failings and shortcomings, have undeniably continued to do more than what God even designed us to do. it is interesting indeed. i suppose it is easier for ladyboys to pick on/taunt womenfolk than to roll up their sleeves and do the heavy lifting of menwork. therein lies much of the problem.
A in J, it is noteworthy that you managed to offer not a single suggestion or possible solution while calling for them. as i said before, females taking your position are playing the nutrole and i choose not to humor them. that behavior is damaging to other bw and bgs that are not able to see clearly the path to self actualization and freedom. my observation is shared with all due respect.
blessings,
focusedpurpose
Avg Bro-
you seem to be angry with educated bw. may i ask you why you have chosen to not take that energy and make it something positive for bm?
for example:
IF you are concerned with bw lamenting about the lack of sufficient numbers of educated bm, why not suggest more bm and bbs focus on acquiring higher education?
yes, foreign women would be the way to go for bm that refuse to educate themselves. by virtue of being american, it will make you an exotic prize, thus a foreign woman has married up. this will NOT fly with a black american woman. lol! she, too, is black and american. lol!
no group of women are expected to marry down. more and more bw are refusing to go that route as well, as the women before us have shown us by their lives that it leads to hell on earth. i am happy to see the awakening and quite frankly tickled that average bros are so ticked off by it. yep. it is time for a new game or a new mark. the jig is up.
blessings,
focusedpurpose
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