Tonight, once again, I have to blog about one of the most dangerous men in A-merry-ca. The other day I was listening to Glenn Beck (don't ask) and he was actually comparing himself and his movement to Martin Luther King. In between breaking down in tears over losing the A-merry-ca he loves and taking calls from crack pots who worship at his feet (or at the sound of his voice), he was ranting on and on about the progressives and how dangerous they are for A-merry-ca. He went on to say the president should watch his back because those evil people are going to take him out. (If you can't hear that dog whistle don't feel bad, you aren't supposed to.)
Then I stumbled on the following blog post thanks to my man Mike over at Crooks & Liars, and I just had to repost it. Why? Because I think it's important for those of you who are asleep at the remote switch to see where your country is going, and for you to meet one of the people who is taking it there. Why do you think people are embolden to do things like this and this? It's because of the Glenn Becks of the world, that's why. And this mid-term if the republicans and their teabagging friends do as well as they are expected to do, we all better watch out.
"In November of 2000, Americans sat on the edge of their seats waiting to find out who would be the next president. Protests were held, counter protests were organized to meet the challenge and everyone had an opinion. The 2000 election remains capable of igniting passionate debate. Some look it as the time that the Supreme Court stole an election for George W. Bush. Some mark it up to Al Gore having the campaign skills and spinal fortitude of a slime mold. There are those who rue Florida’s hanging chads and aging Jewish voters for Buchanan. And not a few still point to those tense days as proof that Ralph Nader is a festering sore on the ass of the Republic.
Any or all of them could be right. But when you read Alexander Zaitchik’s new book, Common Nonsense: Glenn Beck and the Triumph of Ignorance, you’ll turn the last page with the understanding that election 2000 brought something far more sinister than Bush/Cheney down upon America. Worse, you’ll know that it ain’t over yet.
Beck was working in Tampa at the time, unsuccessfully trying to break into conservative talk radio. In fact, he was about to be let go because he was terrible at his job, saved only by Clear Channel’s local monopoly. But when Bush v. Gore came to a head in Florida and Beck was one of the few local voices on the airwaves, Clear Channel saw the opportunity and went national with Beck. That exposure formed the foundation for his current media empire, and the experience turned Beck into the “real conservative” he is today. No more making fun of rednecks: from then on, Beck would fashion himself as one."....And at least Kurtz had the good grace to live with the natives; for all of Beck’s soft-focus talk about the “real America,” the man lives in a mansion in Connecticut and takes a limo to work.
Beck was working in Tampa at the time, unsuccessfully trying to break into conservative talk radio. In fact, he was about to be let go because he was terrible at his job, saved only by Clear Channel’s local monopoly. But when Bush v. Gore came to a head in Florida and Beck was one of the few local voices on the airwaves, Clear Channel saw the opportunity and went national with Beck. That exposure formed the foundation for his current media empire, and the experience turned Beck into the “real conservative” he is today. No more making fun of rednecks: from then on, Beck would fashion himself as one."....And at least Kurtz had the good grace to live with the natives; for all of Beck’s soft-focus talk about the “real America,” the man lives in a mansion in Connecticut and takes a limo to work.
"I’ll let you read the book to find out what kinds of crackpot conspiracies Beck subscribes to and the kind of hard Mormon rightwingism that he’s bringing into mainstream American culture. A god among the natives he may be, but he’s not off the corporate reservation: he’s just packaging the fascism in a way that would make Goebbels proud.
My compulsion to dog-ear every page containing important information, a laugh-out-loud turn of phrase or Zaitchik wielding stinging, sarcastic wit deformed my review copy. The reader never has far to go between examples like, “Weirder still is the fact that Beck has successfully grown a mass following while stumbling through a remedial self-education in U.S. democracy, which reflects the carnival mirrors inside his mind as much as it does the reality he struggles, in futility and desperation, to comprehend,” and “It seemed that the [Tea Party] protesters’ main enemies were Russian history and apostrophes.” They’re all great, but Zaitchik plays them subtly enough that they never detract from his presentation of vital information.
My compulsion to dog-ear every page containing important information, a laugh-out-loud turn of phrase or Zaitchik wielding stinging, sarcastic wit deformed my review copy. The reader never has far to go between examples like, “Weirder still is the fact that Beck has successfully grown a mass following while stumbling through a remedial self-education in U.S. democracy, which reflects the carnival mirrors inside his mind as much as it does the reality he struggles, in futility and desperation, to comprehend,” and “It seemed that the [Tea Party] protesters’ main enemies were Russian history and apostrophes.” They’re all great, but Zaitchik plays them subtly enough that they never detract from his presentation of vital information.
And that’s what makes this book special. A great many writers from the left could have spent 258 pages lobbing insults at Beck. Zaitchik takes the high road, blending straight biography with solid, investigative journalism. Sometime in the future, professors will be assigning Common Nonsense and historians will be referencing it.
Read it. It’s not going to make you feel better, but it will give you a much deeper understanding of America’s current insanity." [Article]
Towards the end of his show Beck was making fun the way he believes that black folks talk by imitating some guy from one of the big unions. He and his co-hosts were yucking it up as they went on and on trashing the guy. They stopped long enough to take a call from some lady named Kathy in Colorado.
"Hi Glenn, I just want you to know that I love your show, and I really appreciate what you are doing for America. I honestly don't know what my husband and I would do without you."
Kathy, just keep praying for me, and pray for our movement. With God on our side we cannot fail. America will be strong again. It has to be for our children's sake."
What's that quote by Wordsworth? :
"We bow our heads before Thee, and we laud, And magnify thy name Almighty God! But man is thy most awful instrument, In working out a pure intent."
Maybe I will go to church tomorrow. If god made me just like he did Glenn Beck, maybe he will hear my prayer as well.
74 comments:
Post on point. The Far Out Right is doing it's best to start a civil war. Those white folk see too many brown people around and it scares them.
Anonymous said...
"Post on point. The Far Out Right is doing it's best to start a civil war. Those white folk see too many brown people around and it scares them."
No, it the Left that works to divide us, rich vs. poor, old vs. young, male vs. female, black vs. white, and featured now, brown vs. white. Do you think this is all just happening now, or is it part of some design? The man who campaigned as a uniter now instead drives apart, the better to control us. Glenn Beck is not your enemy, he is a goofball on TV with a fringe audience. He rails against the true power, and you rally to defend power.
Glenn Beck and his magic underwear.
How funny that Mormonism is being used to set up the fall of the Anglo-American empire.
Haha, anonymous. Bullshit. The Right not liking what the left does for those less fortunate or different is what divides.
Farman said...
"Haha, anonymous. Bullshit. The Right not liking what the left does for those less fortunate or different is what divides."
And what exactly has the Left done for those less fortunate or different, except slaughter them? 100 million last century wasn't enough? Do you want more, you Useful Idiot?
My friend Field Negro, thanks for the run!
I hope I didn't disapoint your readers.
Man, I didn't know. I didn't you had readers from all over the world. Interesting ones TOO! I hope a few of them put me on their blogrolls. Most of the new readers came from you and RiPPa and The Old Black Church (nice christian blog). You guys are my heroes. Well, you know what I mean :-)
If I had your hand, I'd throw mine away.
carrymehome.blogspot.com
http://careycarey-carrymehome.blogspot.com/
Thanks!
I'm not usually one to defend Mormons, or any religion (they can defend themselves) but even the Mormon church balked at Beck's attack on churches that espouse social justice and called him out for his ridiculous claims.
Anon said..
"And what exactly has the Left done for those less fortunate or different, except slaughter them? 100 million last century wasn't enough? Do you want more, you Useful Idiot?"
Wow someone has a fanciful grip on reality. firstly, so-called leftist leaders have been responsible for many deaths..but so have rightwing leaders you friggin idiot. do the names hitler, franco, pinochet, saddam hussein (yes, his baath party was the middle eastern equivalent of fascists) not ring any bells??
secondly, the left has always tried, and will always try, to help those less fortunate and different much more than the right ever could. leftist have concern for people; whereas the modern right in america, australia and most of the western world, is primarily concerned with money. Money and xenophobia are the driving factors of all rightwing movements today.
In a nutshell, wingnut belief: greed is good, difference is bad, lets hate/have disregard for those who are poor or different.
One more thing, Anon..
"No, it the Left that works to divide us, rich vs. poor, old vs. young, male vs. female, black vs. white, and featured now, brown vs. white. "
If by dividing you mean seeking justice and equality for both the rich and the poor, for both women and men, for black, white, and brown..they yes, you are right.
RT, Thanks for your truthful words about the Mormon Church, the true Christian religion.
I think you would make a good Mormon. Field too. Are you ready?
I've said this before and will say it one more time, Glenn Beck is not an idiot. Those who admire him and follow him most certainly are but not Beck. He is a grifter of the highest order.
If Godwin's Law exists on these forums then certainly there must be a Mencken Corollary. That is, people like Beck will never go broke because the American public is too stupid to let that happen.
On a separate note to CareyCarey, blogwhoring is lame. Consider that a word to the wise.
CareyCarey said: "My friend Field Negro, thanks for the run!"
WOW! There for a minute I thought Field had done THE RUN in Philly and it hadn't made the evening News or the AP??
...............
Field, Have you been practicing for that RUN?
aloha from Makaii
word virification: whizin
FIELD you are LATE! Beck has BLACK'S along with him, and yes, he had Martin Luther KING'S niece on his show last month, now that was tooooo deep for me, guess what, she was in agreement with Beck, I watched the TV as if, I was in the TWILIGHT ZONE!
Field, you are NOT WATCHING as you should, you are watching in one direction, the Enemy is all in your face and you are looking straight ahead, you focus on the Pirate's, NO! focus on OUR TRUE ENEMY'S! they are forever telling us they are Geared up! they have exposed who they are and who they are against, forget about the Hispanic's, BECK and his crew are after a bigger FRY! the Hispanic's are being used as a FACADE! the so called (STREET PIRATE are hurting our race, but, God forbid, if anything were to BREAK OUT and I Pray that it doe's NOT, do you think the street Pirate's, will run from our people or to our people? they may be strongly off balance, but, in the end they will see the LIGHT!
I read the BIBLE and WATCH the Enemy at the same time, the enemy can quote the Bible word by word, but, they are do NOT live by the true word of God, as a matter of fact, they have no respect for God! these people refuse to accept the truth, the truth is, the White man is Not Superior to any other race in the world! so what have they done? well, they have carved out a Illegal image of Righteousness! no way you can try to speak about, what Righteousness in the sight of God, but, yet, on the other hand, walk around with Rifle's and Gun's exposed ready to Kill at will! and who? Black people! now that's a fact!
The Black Conservative's are NOT suppose to blend in with the White Conservative's, the Black Conservative's are defiled! they are linked to the GLENN BECK'S, rather they want to be or Not! the Spirit's that are attached to LIMBAUGH and all those other Godless people, are attached to the Black Conservative's as well, how many Black Conservative's have you seen come forth and speak against WHITE RACIST HATRED? NONE! well, they can't, they are trapped! so they hide out! and they should! they are Contaminated! if there is any race of people, that should know right form wrong, it is the Black Race! when we turn on our on people, we are in deep trouble!
ISEEISEE
[Gregory]:"On a separate note to CareyCarey, blogwhoring is lame. Consider that a word to the wise"
Thanks for the kind words, Dick Gregory. I'll put that on my list.
I am not going to clog fields blog, but you have to have something to "push" if you're being a whore, and obviously, you don't know about that. I mean, what do YOU have to sell, and who would buy it?
But since we're giving out tips, here's one for you... Never play another man's game. I've read some of your remarks, and you're outside the lines.
Oh, btw, do you play backgammon? There's a term called No-brainer. Tag, you're it. You know, since we're giving out words of wisdom.
You should wrestle with CF. You seem to love it when he tears you a new A$$hole. Keep watching him, you might learn something.
The LEFT has to LOOK OUT for the POOR WHITE REPUBLICAN'S, what would happen to the POOR and NEEDY if the LEFT said NO NO NO! well, their would be HUNGER and MAYHEM all over AMERICA! what if a Republican had won? look at SARAH PALIN! why God allow's her to continue her MADNESS is beyond me, but, trust me, God is looking at this (WHITE SPEWING HATRED CONSERVATIVE WOMAN)!
The LEFT is not doing enough for the People in need, HEALTH CARE, well, that's good, but, God expect's more from the LEFT! God want's the LEFT to bypass the RIGHT all together, for as long as the LEFT fight for the LEAST, God will fight with them, the RIGHT is a thorn in America! they represent Injustice! the people, that stand with the Republican's, stand against God! these people are working against Progress!
Progression mean's to move forward, to go further, to release some of the thing's of the past, not all, but, some that is not beneficial to the growth of America. like for instance SLAVERY! this nation thrived in spite of Slavery, God was NOT in agreement with it, but, yet God gave man a free will to chose RIGHT from Wrong, so the White Slave owner's chose to do wrong! and we have yet to see the seed of the white man REPENT! a segment of the white generation of today, will NOT DENOUNCE RACISM! no, they prefer to nurture it for their future generation!
Conservative! to hold on to, to hold back! to want to deprive a Race of people of their God given RIGHT'S as a people! this is not God's definition of a conservative, this is the White Racist meaning of the word, in their eye's, they are losing something, that never belonged to them in the first place, God is not Preserving the past for the White Racist! they are keeping it alive! their Past is a Disgrace to God! what are they trying to hold on to, that they can be proud of, their Bad has out weighted their Good!
ISEEISEE
@ FN:
I thought you were hipt to the game of Beck. I'm a bit surprised at you.
Of course Beck is an opportunist in the worst way. Of course he's trying to get "made"...and if it takes fake tears, lies, conniving and Jedi mind tricks he cares less as long as the paycheck gets signed.
I don't know if you listened to Ted Turner on CNN the other night stating that he was going to buy up "one" of the broadcast news networks.
He made the slimiest remark to date: "What do you think people really want to hear about...Lena Horne's death or what is happening in some small country in Africa?"
To that I say Both!
So we can look forward to having the Turner, Hearst & Murdoch Bermuda Trianglesque as the sole source of network and print news.
Hopefully everyone will learn that internet and public radio are the only real news sources.
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ FN:
Some unsolicited advise: Stop listening to Beck bullshizz...bad for the digestion...
Don't you get enough nonsense from your own blog...:)
Peace.
~agape2010-
Word verf: redap (not just dap-but redap :)
@ FN:
One last thing...yeah go to church...no harm no foul (if you get the right one)
And...stop blaming everything on God...
The great thing about God is that you don't have be about God and you still get love..and wrath..
All people have good and evil in them...it's what you feed the most that will have the most power and influence over you.
Beck feeds evil...you obviously feed good...otherwise you wouldn't be so upset about Beck...and I wouldn't be writing you on your blog...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Recently, a well-known, but dispirited, Republican leader made the following astute observation: Fox News, and conservative pundits--those fashioned after Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck--rather than being used by the Right (the popular notion), are, themselves, using the Right, for their own self-aggrandizement.
As someone upthread suggested, these pundits are more loyal to the millions they're making hawking their brand of conservatism, than to the Republic to which they pledge allegiance.
They aren't true loyalists, nor are they true patriots.
They're opportunist, pure and simple. Sarah Palin is an opportunists.
You can tell an opportunist by the greenness with which they pursue God and country, and the accompanying, divisive quality of their rhetoric.
Black conservatives that frequent Beck's show, giving a measure of respectability to his diatribe, can't see the danger he poses--both to conservatives and liberals--blinded as they are by the ultra-brightness of their own conservatism, and Beck's pretense at conservatism, which is nothing more than propaganda designed to split this country down the middle, through a promotion of civil discord, and unrest, rather than civil concordance, and tranquility.
When you make money your god, you have to first enter a partnership with the devil.
After that, Hell is up for grabs!
agape2010 said...
@ FN:
"And...stop blaming everything on God..."
But, God is at fault--at least our understanding, or, rather, our misunderstanding of Her.
When we get God right, everything else will fall into place.
Just so you know,
You would be gard pressed to find someone more Mormon than I am. Most everything I am or think is influenced by my faith, and I think Beck is dead wrong on most everything he says.
I may have to swallow hard and accept that he is one of "us", but we shouldn't take the blame for creating him.
Field Negro:
Please send me your address or an anonymous P.O. Box where I can reach you. I am offering to send you the DVDs for "Gangland" - Seasons 1 through 4.
As I watched the bloody assaults from the "Lincoln Park Bloods" yesterday where they murdered Black people for no other reason than RESPECT - I asked myself "WHAT ARE BLACK PEOPLE FEARING ABOUT THE FUTURE 'TEA PARTY MILITIA' ASSAULT THAT IS NOT ALREADY HAPPENING TO US"?
Then I watched "MSNBC Locked Up:RAW". I saw that in prison YOUR RACE is your GANG. There were bloody fights between Blacks and Hispanics - the two largest prison factions in California.
But wait Filled Negro it gets better - the CONVICTED KILLERS serving life sentences who KNOW THEY ARE NOT GETTING OUT - have NOTHING TO LOSE when they perpetuate violence and chaos in the facility. Guards and other prisoners are put at risk. All because of "Justice Thurgood Marshall Justice" (And Justice Brennan - both of whom didn't bother to open up the file of the convicted killer who appealed their execution before the Supreme Court. These two did everything they could to BLOCK the execution).
TELL ME FILLED NEGRO - are you a "Non-White White Supremacist"? What about Glen Beck's movement do you fear that the "Hilltop Hustlers" of Overbrook in Philly is not already doing?
* Terrorizing the Black Community
* Selling Drugs
* Killing Black people
Why is it that you believe that Glen Beck has misappropriated the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr BUT
* Al Sharpton saying that Arizona is JIM FREAKING CROW
* Jesse Jackson saying that Arizona is like Selma (Even though no MEXICAN or NEGRO has been beaten by the cops)
Yet NEITHER ONE OF THEM (Nor you) say that the present calls in Chicago for NATIONAL GUARD PROTECTION TO KEEP BLACK PEOPLE SAFE in 2010 IS LIKE TUPELO, MISSISSIPPI 1910!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU NEED TO STOP CHERRY PICKING FILLED NEGRO. It is tiring.
The biggest fraud and damage done by the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive-Fundamentalist Racism Chasers (that be you and others) is that as political and ideological animals you FAIL TO MANAGE THE BLACK COMMUNITY. Instead it is all outsourced to the DAMNED DEMOCRATS and the American political domain.
It is truly sickening.
(Filled Negro's negation of me??? "YOU are a Republican. Just admit it")
Glenn Beck didn't kill the 317,463 black babies who've been aborted so far this year, in fact, I think he's against abortions, even for y'all.
THANK GOD for Roe V Wade, wouldn't be a tree left in America if there were 50,000,000 more N-Words buyin lottery tickets..
and thats all I have to say about that,
Frank
"YOU NEED TO STOP CHERRY PICKING FILLED NEGRO. It is tiring.
The biggest fraud and damage done by the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive-Fundamentalist Racism Chasers (that be you and others) is that as political and ideological animals you FAIL TO MANAGE THE BLACK COMMUNITY. Instead it is all outsourced to the DAMNED DEMOCRATS and the American political domain.
It is truly sickening.
(Filled Negro's negation of me??? "YOU are a Republican. Just admit it")"
Ever heard that expression "the truth shall set you free"? Destructive Wingnut, if it walks like a duck.
And why should I watch some show on gangs in prison? I watch CSPAN every day where I can see much more sophisticated gangs do much more damage while remaining free.
"I think you would make a good Mormon. Field too. Are you ready?"
Can Negroes join the church now? Or was that just a seventies thing?:)I kid I kid. Brohammas, don't be mad at me, I take folks as indiviuals not for the religion they belong to. So LDS folks like you are cool with me.
"Field, Have you been practicing for that RUN?
aloha from Makaii"
Damn it CareyCarey, don't use that word.
And don't go giving Destructive Wingnut props, he might take it the wrong way.
But you have a great blog, I think even Gregory would admit that.
BTW Gregory, did Didier win the European Footballer of the year award? He deserves it.
"@ FN:
Some unsolicited advise: Stop listening to Beck bullshizz...bad for the digestion...
Don't you get enough nonsense from your own blog...:)"
Actually agape...Beck gives me comic relief from the real world I deal with everyday. And I actually learn a lot from some folks on this blog. Some folks. Some, like Frank et al., give me comic relief like Beck. :)
C&C, check and mate on that anon.@ 11:15 p.m. Folks need to read before they start with the historical references about politics.
@ FN:
Great! Laughter is good for the soul...and the digestion...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ Black Diaspora:
"But, God is at fault--at least our understanding, or, rather, our misunderstanding of Her.
When we get God right, everything else will fall into place."
Why is God at fault when people have free will and choice? Just as people can choose to hate they can choose to love. That's one of the great things about God...God let's you choose/decide your own position. ..:)
MHO is that we can never get God right...we can't even get ourselves right on this wretched earth...
And Happy Sunday...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
I just found your blog and can guarantee I will be a regular visitor. Glenn Beck and those of his ilk are dangerous to the United States. As mentioned in an earlier comment they are opportunists without regard to the damage they are inflicting.
Glenn Beck is entitled to his own opinion per the First Amendment.
No one else has to agree. That's the beauty of living in America.
I repeat no one has to agree but he is entitled to Freedom of Expression.
I pray such liberties are never stifled in this nation.
"If we don't believe in Freedom of Expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all".
Noam Chomsky
(Below are comments from yesterday in case anyone missed my last controversial reply on Field's previous post: "Robbie Tolan, you ain't no Will Smith")
Maria & CF,
I never said I was light-skinned.
Said I wasn't dark-skinned, however my Mother is extremely Light-Skinned.
Yes I'm attractive.
I won't apologize for it, just as I'm sure you too are attractive and shouldn't apologize for it.
Why should one apologize for how they look?
If I were dark-skinned and attractive, I still would NOT apologize for it.
Being proud of one's physical appearance doesn't mean they're arrogant or conceited.
Going forward I feel this must be said today:
Maria you can ONLY control your views and opinions NOT mine!
For the record your opinion doesn't trump my opinion.
If you don't agree with my comments or opinions on anything Field chooses to post, who gives a s---??
Since this is NOT your Blog, the ONLY opinion that truly matters is Field's!
Its just a fact now let's move on shall we??
Why are Blacks who visit Field Negro's Blog and read my comments about the Black Community being totally divisive within itself, so upset?
Its a fact!
Blacks keep blaming White America for ALL of their problems when we seem to be our own worst enemy.
If you beat down Human Beings within your OWN race, why should you expect other Human Beings to respect you?
To America's Black community I suggest we eliminate all of the dividing lines and band together just as Blacks did during King's time, than we will see greater success as a group.
Last but not least for Maria and all the rest of you who don't believe that Blacks STILL have a problem with complexion, hair texture, etc.,
CNN's Anderson Cooper recently conducted a Study among Black & White Children by asking them to choose between Dark-skinned Black Leaders and Light-Skinned Black Leaders.
CNN Study: White and Black Children Biased toward Lighter skin
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/13/doll.study/index.html
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/14/study-white-and-black-children-biased-toward-lighter-skin/
What was the consensus?
Most of those Children pointed to the picture of Light-Skinned Black Leaders.
Where did those perspectives come from among such young minds?
THEIR PARENTS!
So before you point fingers at me clean up your own houses.
Peace
Darn it Laurel, you really need to find a new avatar! The one you have would lead one to believe that you are just a regular brown negro. You should find a lighter one so people don't get the wrong idea about who you are.
(said with love and sarcasm)
amadmike1, thanks for checking in. Always feel free to holla at us, or just lurk.
Laurel, I agree, it is a free country, and Beck has made millions proving it.:)I am not mad at him, but I do want the buyer to beware,that's all.
Sorry in advance for the Anon but I am on a mobile device and don't feel like logging in. This is CS.
ISEEISEE
I can do nothing about you being disturbed by the knowledge that there are some BLACKS who would dare go on the Glen Beck show despite your wishes.
However I as a Black man am more distressed upon seeing
@ Drug Dealer Young Jeezy invited on stage by a White Liberal Democratic senatorial candidate in a "Get Out The Blacks To Vote DEMOCRAT " rally, the Snarling Fox believing that this criminal has a special connection with the Black voter
@ Seeing Black people who feign offense about a White man like Imus using offenive words yet pay money to hear rappers and Def Comedy Jam call them names AND give them political commentary.
Index the POWER that the oft hated Black conservative has compared with the far larger array of ideologically compatible Negroes who actually have seats of POWER over our communiy.
Then ask yourself "Why do Filled Negro, the Black Press Opertives and I spend so much focus upon THEM rather than those who actually have power?"
If you come up with an answer other than BIGOTRY please let me know what it is.
Thank you in advance.
CS again.
ISEEISEE:
Having just reread your post I have to conclude that not only are you a Pius Loon - you are the worst kind of Chistian there is: One that JUST HAPPENS to have a direct channel to Jesus and, what a surpise HE IS ON YOUR SIDE.
My Jesus told me today that MY misson as a Fisher Of Men is to reach out to those who YOU inferiorize by calling them "the Least Of These" and instead of merely feeding them as you do tell them that they were made in GOD'S IMAGE. Tell them that MY GOD needed them to walk the path of straight and narrow, forsaking all distractions and doubts so they can one day REACH THEIR FULL POTENTIAL and thus be a more effective servant onto the Lord.
IseeIsee how are you fundamentallly and different than those in the past who said Jesus told them that the African was to be a slave as it fit their own worldly agenda.
Read this with great interest as I did not from where or what Glen Beck was sprung. Figures it was Clear Channel. In our industry, CC is the "dark side" and I do mean dark.
Thanks for the re-post of your friend's post as it has me wanting to buy the book. I am also cutting and pasting the italicized quotes and sending to my informed and even no-so-informed friends who will no doubt want to read it as well.
Son,
The first time I heard ol' beckerwood I knew he was even more insane than the tubster rush.
he is a magnifier for the rage and hate and aggression that drives the Psychotic Thinking of those who need to blame "others" for their problems.
And those "others" are of course, not... uh... er... white? Is that too blunt?.....
Michael
Field,
Just got back from watching Barça win the La Liga title with a party of ex-pat Catalans. They were still going strong when I left and will have sore heads in the morning, if they sober up that quickly.
The European Footballer of the Year award is given at the end of the year. Drogba would certainly be among my top candidates, along with Rooney and Messi (who won it last year).
As for CareyCarey, you have my apology if I caused you offense. I have visited your blog, by clicking on your name, and I concur with Field's assessment. A text link at the end of a post just seems superfluous.
My bad Gregory, I think it might have been the Golden Boot Award. Not sure. I think I caught some of that Barca game on ESPN. Were they playing some team named Valadorada? (Sp?)at home?
Cali irl, please spread the word about the book, it should be a good read.
Sho you right, Michael. Sho you right. :)
Gregory, I accept your apology, and in doing so, I have to admit that my actions (blog name @ bottom) is a no-no, and it's lame. And, I knew that. It's like a flasher disturbing a rugby match. Nobody paid their money to see that ugly ass. Well, not @ that time.
But see, when you called me out, my ego, arogance and ignorance, got in the way of my better judgement. Damn, I was caught with my hands in the cookie jar... "NOT ME"! Yet, in defense of my actions, I thought it may have been a "leaner" because Field had invited me into his home.
No harm, no foul. My hand is extended.
Having said all of that *lol* did you check out my Lebron post (up & running)? U Basketball fan?
Field, the 76er's could use a helping hand. But read the post before you respond.
CareyCarey @ ...*smile*
agape2010 said... "Why is God at fault when people have free will and choice? Just as people can choose to hate they can choose to love. That's one of the great things about God...God let's you choose/decide your own position."
I see you're agreeing with me. It's our perception of God that's at fault, that's to blame, not the True Character, or Nature of God.
There are as many Gods on this planet as there are people to create Her. No two people worship the same God. No two people perceive God in the same way. No two people have the same precise, exact, understand of God.
And where beliefs do touch, it's still a distortion of the real.
It's that "freewill" thing that you referenced. We're free to do, think, and believe what we will. Man may stop you, or attempt to, but God won't.
Our general understanding of God has evolved over the years. Yet, we still don't have it right, but we're getting closer.
Here's what's at stake: Whatever you believe God to be, that's what She'll be to you [freewill determines that].
We create God. Give that some thought. Until we create a God that's superior to the God in which we have been believing, all is lost.
Hence, we have a group of killers shouting, "God is great," just before slamming a plane into a building.
Were they in possession of a truer, more perfect, understanding of God, it would've been impossible for such a thing to happen in the name of God.
"MHO is that we can never get God right...we can't even get ourselves right on this wretched earth...
And Happy Sunday...:)"
My friend, our very survival on this planet hinges on us getting God right.
If we don't get Her right, we will self-annihilate. You don't have to take my word for it. Just look around!
Have you taken a good look at our world lately?
As we speak, we're on the precipice of total self-annihilation. If we don't pull ourselves back from the brink (by reexamining our beliefs about God, and ourselves), we will destroy life on this planet as we know it.
This is not "doom and gloom," it's a verifiable reality.
May all your days be happy ones.
I actually stopped blogging because our political discourse in thia country is appalling and its all due to Beck amd Limbaugh.
I read today that the NRA is against denying gun licenses to people even id they are on a terror watchlist. When asked members said they wouldn't believe the loophole existed unless they saw it on Fox.
People like Beck will continue to thrive as long as we continue to let education fail.
@Laurel i responded to you in the prior thread.
CareyCarey,
No harm, no foul.
I will also take fault for oftentimes sounding more brusque than I intend.
I am a Black activist and I believe in many gods more is better ...
I have many friends who are jewish, christian, muslim, etc...I respect them and they respect my pagan beliefs...
Pagan beliefs still make more sense than that crazy mormon crap. Jesus in Nebraska, golden tablets, magic knickers, the demon Bruno playing trumpet through his anus, the angel Moroni, no alcohol or tobacco.
Looneys. One of my boyfriends was a Mormon, and he was WAAAAAY messed up.
Mad love for what Gregory & CareyCarey just did. Why can't it always be like that?
My friend, our very survival on this planet hinges on us getting God right.
If we don't get Her right, we will self-annihilate. You don't have to take my word for it. Just look around!
Have you taken a good look at our world lately?
As we speak, we're on the precipice of total self-annihilation. If we don't pull ourselves back from the brink (by reexamining our beliefs about God, and ourselves), we will destroy life on this planet as we know it.
This is not "doom and gloom," it's a verifiable reality."
Damn BD, everyime I read your words I want to break out with my old dusty copy of "The Prophet" by Khlil Gibran. You are that deep.
fn,
When, when, when are you and millions of others going to grasp that Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reiily are -- ENTERTAINERS -- whose schtick is conservative politics?
Each, in his own way, found this niche, and each is exploiting it to the fullest.
Based on your post, Beck got the proverbial lucky break just when he needed it most. He is the same as every other entertainer who worked all the backwater joints and roadhouses, slogging along, testing his act, trying new stuff and finally getting his Rocky moment.
How long will Beck's run last? Impossible to say. Seems like Paul Harvey's radio career was about 60 years. Beck is already too old for a 60-year career. More likely he will rant too crazily too many times and lose the backing of his advertisers.
Anyway, his success is proof that if you find the common ground uniting a segment of the population, you can exploit it for an enormous amount of fun and profit.
no_slappz said...
"fn,
"When, when, when are you and millions of others going to grasp that Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reiily are -- ENTERTAINERS --whose schtick is conservative politics?"
I'll believe that it's "schtick" when one mainstream Republican politician will criticize Limbaugh, just for the fun of it, just for the entertainment value of it, and don't later recant--offering up the most disgusting, grovelling, retraction possible.
If a black television or radio personality was saying the very same thing as Limbaugh, but targeted whites, and Republicans, I don't think you'd call it entertainment.
Besides, blacks have been the entertainment for too long, on too many occasions, for us to let our guard down now, and agree with you on what you say is entertainment, and therefore harmless.
If whites are finding Rush entertaining, that in itself is cause for concern.
Hannity, Beck, and O'Reilly gain respectability, because they're seen to have a news platform, a national cable news platform at that.
No, no_slappz, peddle your comments some place else. On this plantation we are free Negroes, and we plan to stay that way-- Negroes who listen to the life lessons we've garnered over years of being an oppressed people, and your "schtick" won't cut it here, either.
"When, when, when are you and millions of others going to grasp that Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Reiily are -- ENTERTAINERS --whose schtick is conservative politics?"
When will you realize that these men are being paid to cultivate racial antagonism and political unrest in this country? No offense, but in any other country, they'd either be state-financed political organs or two days away from having their broadcasts cut and their bodies laying in shallow graves. Only in America can you have men being paid to essentially push for domestic and foreign policy that puts us squarely back in the early 1950s.
Come to think of it, a lot of these men and their teabagger cohorts were born sometime after WWII, back when America was last globally "dominant". This also happened to be the last time that those Coloreds were "in their place". Bet they miss that, too.
FN: "C&C, check and mate on that anon.@ 11:15 p.m. Folks need to read before they start with the historical references about politics."
Your are so proud of your ignorance.
Hitler was socialsit.
Laurel said...
Glenn Beck is entitled to his own opinion per the First Amendment.
No one else has to agree. That's the beauty of living in America.
I repeat no one has to agree but he is entitled to Freedom of Expression.
I pray such liberties are never stifled in this nation.
Hitler had freedom of expression, and look what that "freedom" did for the Jews.
Our freedoms are overrated. They have an unfortunate downside. We have accepted the notion that they're unassailable, but they're not.
I say throw them all out, and offer in their place something like the Golden Rule (the ethic of reciprocity), a rule, by the way, that predates Jesus, and may be found in the sacred text of almost every religion.
@Black Diaspora
We create God. Give that some thought. Until we create a God that's superior to the God in which we have been believing, all is lost.
Long ago I was a seeker, and even quite devout. Coming through all that, I've ended with science and mathematics. Regarding God, the mathematics are right there for anyone to see.
Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.” (1 John 4:8; NRSV)
God is love is God.
Blessings to you.
@Race Traitoress said... "Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.” (1 John 4:8; NRSV)
"God is love is God.
"Blessings to you."
I like that: "God is love is God." I've never heard it stated that way.
Today, you made my posting here more rewarding that I had hoped.
Let me share this, as you have shared with me, and bless you, as you have blessed me:
"[L]ove is Who You Are, and who you have always been. It is all there ever was, is now, and ever shall be.
"You have searched for a truth by which to live your life, and I give it to you here, again.
"Be love, My Beloved.
"Be love, and your journey will be over, even as your new journey to bring others to mastery has just begun. For love is all that you are, all that I am, and all that we were ever meant to be.
"So be it."
From: Communion with God.
@Black Diaspora
That is lovely. Is this the book by Neale Donald Walsch? I just looked it up, but was not familiar with it.
We are telling the same story, to be sure.
Thank you.
"C&C, check and mate on that anon.@ 11:15 p.m. Folks need to read before they start with the historical references about politics."
Thanks field. What astonishes me about these wingnuts is that they'll make the most false statements and try to parody them off as facts.
Anon 11:33 pm "Your are so proud of your ignorance.
Hitler was socialsit."
Please do some light reading and educate yourself anon.
Hitler was a fascist. He was in no way left wing.
You're most likely getting confused with the name of his party...National Socialist German Workers Party. This does not mean they were lefwing. My response to you was about your comment that left-wing leaders were responsible for millions of deaths.
Its a pretty well known historical fact that the Nazis were rightwing extremists and i cannot believe im debating this with you. you are supposed to know this by the time you reach high school (seriously, did you never take a history class?) but here goes..
Despite the name, Hitler and the nazis did not consider themselves leftists in any shape or form. In fact, they were deeply anti-marxist and one of the first groups they prosecuted when they came to power were the marxists/communists. Hitler held a few basic principles: extreme nationalism, anti-semitism, anti-marxism and aryan superiority. do these sound like leftist principles to you?
If you can't fathom this, take a look at neo-nazi groups in the world today..are they on the extreme left or right of the political scale???
I'll make it easy for you, i'll give you a few wiki links...they shouldn't be too hard to understand, even with limited comprehension skills. READ UP FRIEND
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
Race Traitoress said...
"@Black Diaspora
"That is lovely. Is this the book by Neale Donald Walsch? I just looked it up, but was not familiar with it.
"We are telling the same story, to be sure.
"Thank you."
Yes. Neale Donald Walsch is the author of several books from the Conversations with God series of books, of which this is one.
If you haven't read him, you're in for a treat, whether you agree with all that is said or not.
@ FN:
I know! Right?! Always nice when syncopation happens...:) about the Carey/Greg thing.
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ Black Diaspora:
Apologies for the late reply.
I am in agreement with 98% of what you wrote...I love when syncopation happens and it has happened twice on this post...:) Joy!
For me, I never reduce God to what my thinking can come up with as to who God is, the mind of God, or even specific genderlike qualities God may posess. I do not put God in a box...
I am of the belief that if we truly knew the One True God that we would see the foolishness of serving lesser gods.
I also do not think that I am able to "create" God...although I do think some people do create God and I also think that while they are "creating" God they get it wrong...and fly airplanes into buildings or hate others or even belive there is no God.
I know that I only use 1/10th of the brain I was given (and probabaly not even all of that for me)...therfore, if I was able to have more brain power/usage...I may come to a better knowledge of God.
I know some of the qualities of God and I know that God resides in me...it is up to me to feed that and show that (and I fail at it sometimes).
I know that God has given us options...and that we (the collective) are not choosing our options wisely, with disregard for who God is...and yes, we must get "it" right...
When a catastophe happens (Katrina, earthquakes, tsunamis etc.) peope think the "world" is coming to an end...I belive the earth is reclaiming itself because we do not take care of it properly...and the earth has always had a way of shaking people off of it and going about its business of being the earth.
It may be the plan of God for us to eliminate ourselves..how would I know of such a plan...the God that I know is a loving God but a jealous God...
I firmly agree with what Race traitoress said and what you quoted in Conversations with God...
But I am smart enough to know that people will twist and turn what we know of God and make God out to be something ugly, hateful and distorted...those people do serve a god...but it is not the God I serve...
I knew by your writings that you swin in deep waters...:)
May peace and the abundance of joy be favored upon you all your days.
Peace.
~agape2010~
And I know you understand why I call myself agape...
word verf: chinge :)
@ Black Diaspora:
One more thing...if you understand numerology you can see that I use 2010...yes it is this year, but I have been using it for more than 5 years now...)
Peace.
~agape2010~
"Its a pretty well known historical fact that the Nazis were rightwing extremists and i cannot believe im debating this with you. you are supposed to know this by the time you reach high school (seriously, did you never take a history class?) but here goes.."
C&C, there in lies the problem: "high school". I think you have to reach it before you know these things, no?
The Fire Next Time, great comment.I co-sign 110%
fn:
gb is one insane tv hack!
hobama is doing FAR more to destroy america and he is prez select until 2016...
which one should we truly be fretting over???
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/can-tom-joyner-wake-up-tavis-smiley-never-left.html
Field..
"C&C, there in lies the problem: "high school". I think you have to reach it before you know these things, no?"
Hahaha..yes, you make a very good point!
@coffee and cigarettes: You and Field need to do some reading beyond the two paragraphs you skimmed in high school. The Big Lie of the late 20th century was that Nazism was Rightist. It was in fact typical of the Leftism of its day. It was only to the Right of Stalin's Communism. The very word "Nazi" is a German abbreviation for "National Socialist" (Nationalsozialist) and the full was "The National Socialist German Workers' Party". "Fascism" is a term that was originally coined by Mussolini to describe his adaptation of Marxism to the conditions of Italy after WW I. Lenin in Russia made somewhat different adaptations of Marxism to the conditions in Russia during the same period and his came to be called Marxism/Leninism. Mussolini stayed closer to Marx as he felt that Italy had to go through a capitalist stage before it could reach socialism whereas Lenin attempted to push Russia straight from semi-feudalism into socialism. Mussolini's principal modification of Marxism was his rejection of the notion of class war, something that put him decisively at odds with Lenin's "Reds". Mussolini's ideas and system were very influential and he had many imitators -- not the least of which was Adolf Hitler.
German Nazism was not an aberrant "right-wing" perversion growing out of the "contradictions" of capitalism. Instead, the Nazi movement had developed out of the "enlightened" and "progressive" socialist and collectivist ideas of the pre-World War I era, which many intellectuals in England and the United States had praised and propagandized for in their own countries. American "Progressives" of the late 19th and early 20th century were not only Leftists but they were also war-glorifying militarists. Hitler got not only his eugenic ideas from American Leftists but even his ideas about war being a purification of the national spirit etc. And who was it who said this?:"Conformity will be the only virtue and any man who refuses to conform will have to pay the penalty." Was it Hitler? It sounds very much like either Adolf or Mussolini in the 1930’s but it was in fact said while both Hitler and Mussolini were still in the trenches of World War I by the President of the United States, the arch-Progressive Woodrow Wilson. Racism was very LEFTIST in Hitler's day. Leftists like to portray Wilson as a visionary. They neglect to mention that the future he envisioned was a racially segregated one.
There was a striking similarity between FDR's New Deal and the methods that Hitler used to get Germany out of the Depression. Both FDR and Hitler instituted massive government spending campaigns, including public-works programs, to bring full employment to their countries. The Nazis also imposed an extensive system of governmental control over German businesses. Was Roosevelt's approach any different? Consider FDR's National Recovery Act, characterized by the infamous Blue Eagle. With the NRA, the U.S. government required entire industries to combine into government-protected cartels, and directed them to fix wages and prices in their respective industries. If a businessman refused to go along, he faced prosecution and punishment, not to mention protest demonstrations from Blue Eagle supporters. (The Supreme Court ultimately declared the NRA unconstitutional.)
Let's also not forget the important paternalistic elements of Hitler's national socialism: Social Security, national health care, public schooling, and unemployment compensation. Sound familiar?
20th century Fascism was in fact an American invention, or more precisely an invention of the American Left. Like many American ideas to this day, however, it proved immensely popular in Europe and it was only in Europe that it was put fully into practice. As it does today, American conservatism kept the American Left in some check in the first half of the 20th century so it was only in Europe that their ideas could come into full bloom.
Anon 11:10 am
Seriously, i dont even know how to begin to address all this.
I'm aware what 'NAZI' stood for, if you had actually bothered to read my post you would've have seen this.
"The Big Lie of the late 20th century was that Nazism was Rightist."
Are you serious? If it was such a
'big lie', don't you think credible historians would have realized this and enlightened us? is it all part of some big global conspiracy to keep us uninformed?
And again, please answer my question..are ideas of aryan superiority, nationalism, anti-marxism etc more left or right? progressive or regressive?
"Instead, the Nazi movement had developed out of the "enlightened" and "progressive" socialist and collectivist ideas of the pre-World War I era, which many intellectuals in England and the United States had praised and propagandized for in their own countries"
Seriously, you've clearly never studied any credible form of history. Your claim that Nazi's developed out of the 'progressives' is such nonsense that it makes me laugh!! hahahahaha.
firstly, based on the facts just plain wrong. i dont have to cite my sources because they're everywhere. if you believe this claim to be true, please give me a source and i would love to have a look at it.
secondly, just philosophically speaking...nazi ideas are regressive not progressive. therefore even if people that labelled themselves as 'progressive' developed nazi ideas (which i highly doubt but ill go there for the sake of argument), these people were clearly then not actually progressive! just because you decide to label yourself something..does not make it so. i could call myself a cat but i would still be a human being. it does not follow that ideas such as racism, anti-semitism, aryan superiority etc can be deemed PROGRESSIVE.
Lastly, there are these things called nuance and context and we use these in the real world.
you can be left/progressive on economic issues yet right/conservative on social and moral issues. and vice versa. you can also be authoriatian left or right, and democratic left or right.
On the issue of Stalin-I don't know why you brought him up, because i am not trying to defend him. i think he was a crazy fuck. Many leftist leaders of his time held the same view. Look up the non-alligned movement..many socialist countries refused to be alligned with either the eastern or western bloc during the cold war. Cuba and Yugoslavia on the top of my head.
And you are right-Benito Mussolini was originally a socialist, but he went through a political transformation and became a fascist.
My original point was not that all those who call themselves socialists get some sort of moral pass, if that is what you're trying to suggest. my point was that both rightwing and leftwing leaders have been responsible for bloodshed. Rightwing leaders much more so and i can give you a whole list of cases why.
But i think all of these leaders that we've mentioned had something vitally in common. they all loved and worshipped their idealogy over humanity. and there lies the problem. you always have to put humanity and people first.
the same shit happens when people love god over humanity..religious wars, 9/11, london bombings.. or money over humanity. iraq war, vietnam, colonialism, etc
C&C: "But i think all of these leaders that we've mentioned had something vitally in common. they all loved and worshipped their idealogy over humanity. and there lies the problem. you always have to put humanity and people first."
Which is why I am for limited government, and feel the path that the statists who run our government today, no matter how "benign" it all seems now, can only lead to someplace bad.
And as for the Nazi's, I'll let their front man take it from here:
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler
(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Call it what you will (I'll stick with Leftism), but it is the same appeal for government to address "social justice" as we hear today.
Perhaps a better division than Left or Right is between those who call for more government control and those who call for more individual liberty. I know what side I'm on.
Anon..prior to the Nazi seizure of power in 1933, worker protests had spread all across Germany in response to the Great Depression. Hitler exploited this social unrest by promising workers to strengthen their labor unions and increase their standard of living.
But these were empty promises. Once in power, Hitler showed his true colors by promptly breaking all his promises to workers. The Nazis abolished trade unions, collective bargaining and the right to strike. An organization called the "Labor Front" replaced the old trade unions, but it was an instrument of the Nazi party and did not represent workers.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm
Haven't you ever read Niemollers famous poem...about the nazis coming for the communists, the jews and the trade unionists? No matter how you try to cloak it, Hitler was not a socialist and his beliefs were the antithesis of leftist thought.
"Perhaps a better division than Left or Right is between those who call for more government control and those who call for more individual liberty. I know what side I'm on"
well that depends on your definition of individual freedoms and liberty. with rights come responsibilities.
I think the government should stay away from all the private affairs of its citizens..as long as nobody is getting hurt or exploited.
however, i think government regulations are definitely needed in some areas. i would even argue that individual liberty is impossible to achieve without government regulation.
ie..at the most basic level, the government ensure that you have freedom of life by making it illegal for somebody to kill you. at a bit more sophisticated level, it enacts minimum wage to make sure you have a chance at a decent quality of life. those who have to worry about where they're next meal is going to come from cannot in essence be 'free.'
the government builds schools and hospitals to give its citizens access to health and education, and in my opinion should try and make this access as fair and even as possible. i do not believe that society should be driven solely by the 'profit motive'..the amount of money you have should not determine the quality of health and education you recieve.
smaller government may sound good in theory, but it falls flat on its face in practice. a lack of regulations screws the little guys while benifiting the big guy. lack of regulation is what caused the financial crisis.
if we didn't have regulations, companies would be able to pollute however they want..employers could pay their employees however they want..dismiss them however they want and risk their lives however they want.
this is why we choose not to live in an anarchy. all these regulations are able to exist because of government interference. i dont know about you, but i trust a public body that i can vote in and out and hold accountable much more than i trust a boss or corporation that i cannot. a government, ideally, is set up to represent the people. a company is set up to make profit. that alone should tell you something about regulations in the economic sphere.
IMO, the best way to counteract authoritarianism is not through smaller government but through transparancy, accountability, the bill of rights and the rule of law.
And i also fail to see what is so bad about 'social justice.' Isn't it a noble cause?
what about government control today is in conflict with your individual liberty?
How are you more free than a citizen of france or sweden for example, countries where government regulations are much tougher?
How is the quality of life for the average person worse due to Obama?
coffee and cigarettes said...
"And you are right-Benito Mussolini was originally a socialist, but he went through a political transformation and became a fascist."
Fascism is simply extreme socialism plus nationalism.
""Labor Front" replaced the old trade unions, but it was an instrument of the Nazi party and did not represent workers."
Kind of like the SEIU?
"Haven't you ever read Niemollers famous poem...about the nazis coming for the communists, the jews and the trade unionists?"
First they came for the Tea Partiers.....
"IMO, the best way to counteract authoritarianism is not through smaller government but through transparancy, accountability, the bill of rights and the rule of law."
Like passing an unread Health care bill expropriating 17% of the economy via parlimentary tricks, in the dead of night, against public sentiment?
"And i also fail to see what is so bad about 'social justice.' Isn't it a noble cause?"
Noble causes have been the source of untold misery across the ages. I'll decide what causes I wish to advocate. I don't want my government crusading for anything. And as far as "social justice" goes, you want your rulers to be able decide how much money you can make? Where and how you can live? What medical procedures you deserve? Are you crazy?
"How are you more free than a citizen of france or sweden for example, countries where government regulations are much tougher?"
Well, for one thing, I can speak my mind here. There are things you are not allowed to say in Europe, and if you offend your rulers, you can be prosecuted. I also have more claim on the fruit of my labor and the fair use of may property, even as these rights are under attack.
"How is the quality of life for the average person worse due to Obama?'
For one, his economic policies have extended this recession for a year now. That aside, does material comfort trump all? The "average" German saw their quality of life rise under Hitler.
The Leftist hunger for "change" to the society that they hate leads to a hunger for control over other people. And they will do and say anything to get that control: "Power at any price". Leftist politicians are mostly self-aggrandizing crooks who gain power by deceiving the uninformed with snake-oil promises -- power which they invariably use to destroy. Destruction is all that they are good at. Destruction is what haters do. I will stand with the productive.
agape2010 said... "For me, I never reduce God to what my thinking can come up with as to who God is, the mind of God, or even specific genderlike qualities God may posess. I do not put God in a box..."
We can never rise higher than the fountainhead, the source. And that's a good thing. That mean: Our joy, and the experience of it, can never be circumscribed, just as the infinite can't be circumscribed.
"I know some of the qualities of God and I know that God resides in me...it is up to me to feed that and show that (and I fail at it sometimes)."
You're doing just fine. As long as you know where God resides, his residence, so to speak, you can always find your way back home.
You know what many have yet to realize: You and God reside at the same address.
"I know that God has given us options...and that we (the collective) are not choosing our options wisely, with disregard for who God is...and yes, we must get "it" right..."
I'm hopeful that we will. I see signs of it occurring (our getting it right), but I'd be more assured, if the signs were more plentiful.
Humankind is running out of options, not because the options don't exist, but because we have cut ourselves off from them.
"I belive the earth is reclaiming itself because we do not take care of it properly...and the earth has always had a way of shaking people off of it and going about its business of being the earth."
True, we are poor stewards. We have taken the command to "subdue" the earth, as a command "to conquer and subjugate" it. We "subdue" the earth by learning its secrets, and working with it, rather than against it.
Gaia has taught us well about the oneness of all things, the interdependence of all things (what we've come to know as the ecosystem), and the folly of destroying these fragile alliances.
"It may be the plan of God for us to eliminate ourselves..how would I know of such a plan...the God that I know is a loving God but a jealous God..."
God desires for us only joy, fulfillment, peace, and the experience of all that we are.
We're the ones who are deciding, and choosing our untimely demise. We're the ones who're ignoring what is plainer than day in our pursuit of disunity, and the notion that there are needs and insufficiencies.
"But I am smart enough to know that people will twist and turn what we know of God and make God out to be something ugly, hateful and distorted...those people do serve a god...but it is not the God I serve..."
And by their twisting and turning God into something "ugly, hateful and distorted" they twist and turn themselves into something "ugly, hateful and distorted."
We need to upgrade our understanding of God. Our old concepts of God aren't serving us in this modern age.
"May peace and the abundance of joy be favored upon you all your days."
Thank you. I can think of no greater blessing than that of joy and peace.
you clearly do not have a clear idea what socialism and fascism are. both can be authoritarian, but they are not the same thing.
"First they came for the Tea Partiers....."
Nobody is coming for the tea partiers! they are utilizing they're lawful right to protest..good for them. at the same time i can use my lawful right of freedom of speech to criticize their silly arguements.
"Like passing an unread Health care bill expropriating 17% of the economy via parlimentary tricks, in the dead of night, against public sentiment?"
I'm sorry but..are you serious? The bill was there to be read. It was not passed by any tricks, but by standard parlimentary procedure..just like any other bill. The democratic process was not somehow suspended. It was passed by a democratically elected majority. And there was alot of public sentiment for it aswell. Polls have shown that the majority of the US population was for health care reform.
I'd like to also point out that the majority of the south was against the civil rights act..does this mean it should've never been passed?
If you criticize anything about the health care bill, critize the fact that lobby groups like AMA got involved. That is what skewed the democratic process-corporate and group interests were placed over public interests.
"Well, for one thing, I can speak my mind here. There are things you are not allowed to say in Europe, and if you offend your rulers, you can be prosecuted. I also have more claim on the fruit of my labor and the fair use of may property, even as these rights are under attack."
You can speak your mind in europe too, just as much as the US. The only thing you can be charged under are racial vilifiaction laws.
Your tax is lower but you're health, education and other social services are dismal in comparison.
There are no limits on how you use your own property so i'm not sure what you're talking about there.
What you do get though are longer holidays, shorter working hours, higher minimum wage, and wider safety nets if you were ever to fall behind. Not such bad things are they?
"And as far as "social justice" goes, you want your rulers to be able decide how much money you can make? Where and how you can live? What medical procedures you deserve? Are you crazy"
Firstly lets get one thing straight-they are not your rulers, they are your representatives. You do not live in a monarchy or dictatorship. Feel free to vote them out if you're unhappy with what they've done.
Secondly, nobody is propsing to decide where you live.
About how much money you make-nobody is going to decide that either. Yes i believe a minimum wage should be set. Afterall, we live in a civilized society not an anarchy or dog-eat-dog world. There are some things that as society we should deem unacceptable, and unfair wage for the amount you work is one of them. And you are obviously going to get taxed no matter where you live, unless you decide to move to dubai or leichenstein.
Medical procedures-nobody but a qualified doctor is going to decide what medical procedures you need!
"Noble causes have been the source of untold misery across the ages.."
please give me examples, i would love to hear this.
"I'll decide what causes I wish to advocate. I don't want my government crusading for anything.."
Okay, so by your logic the government shouldn't have advocated civil rights? or womens rights?
@ Black Diaspora:
Yougave me a chance to exhale from my day with this conversation...always a pleasure when we bring what maks us all interrelated..God.
Now I'm going to have to use this line and I will give you the credit:
"We need to upgrade our understanding of God."
Upgrade...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ coffee and cigarettes:
"Polls have shown that the majority of the US population was for health care reform."
Not only was that not true when the bill was passed, a majority of Americans still oppose the healthcare bill.
"I'd like to also point out that the majority of the south was against the civil rights act..does this mean it should've never been passed?"
No, because the majority of the country was for it. Unlike the healthcare bill.
"You can speak your mind in europe too, just as much as the US. The only thing you can be charged under are racial vilifiaction laws."
Wrong again.
"What you do get though are longer holidays, shorter working hours, higher minimum wage, and wider safety nets if you were ever to fall behind. Not such bad things are they?"
I'd like both, but if I have to pick, I'll take freedom over security.
"Firstly lets get one thing straight-they are not your rulers, they are your representatives."
If they were our representatives, they would not have passed a healthcare bill opposed by the electorate. I hope that November shows them they are not truly rulers.
"...please give me examples(noble causes/misery), i would love to hear this"
You're serious? Social welfare state/cultural decay and eventual bankruptcy*; Prohibition/gang violence; Treaty of Versaille/World war II; Communism/100 million dead; Banning DDT/Millions of African kids dead of malaria; Women's suffrage/Democrat presidents (just kidding)
*The unfunded future liability of Social Security is $10 trillion; for Medicare it is $61 trillion. The programs did not reduce poverty or improve the healthcare system. a now Obama has added another $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities. None of these obligations will be met. The people who really need help will be left with nothing.
"Okay, so by your logic the government shouldn't have advocated civil rights? or womens rights?"
The governement didn't advocate civil rights or womens rights; the Civils Rights movement and the Women's movement did. The people are the source of rights, not the government. Government only advocates for established power, and thus governement advocacy must be necessity be a form of oppression.
"I'd like both, but if I have to pick, I'll take freedom over security."
The point is, you don't have to choose. thats the beauty of it: you can have both.Freedom and security are not two mutually exclusive concepts. If you want to talk about big lies, thats the biggest lie pushed by the right: that somehow its one or the other. simply not true. if you want only freedom and do not want security-well thats your choice and your political viewpoint, but i choose both.
"The governement didn't advocate civil rights or womens rights; the Civils Rights movement and the Women's movement did. The people are the source of rights, not the government. Government only advocates for established power, and thus governement advocacy must be necessity be a form of oppression."
The majority of the population wanted civil rights? I'm not so sure about that.
Yes movements pushed government into action..thats the beauty of democracy. However, unpopular legislation still had to be pushed through where a majority of the population in a particular state did not want it to pass. The argument that you're using now for healthcare can be the same argument used against civil rights...state autonomy, public opinion etc. And look at the uproar that took place when schools were first desegragated.
The majority can never and should never be able to trample the rights of others. I believe that access to health and education are a right. The universal declaration of human rights, to which the US is a party to, agrees with me. Maybe the better debate is whether you believe health and education to be in the realm of rights?
"You're serious? Social welfare state/cultural decay and eventual bankruptcy*; Prohibition/gang violence; Treaty of Versaille/World war II; Communism/100 million dead; Banning DDT/Millions of African kids dead of malaria; Women's suffrage"
Are YOU serious??
I asked for examples where a noble cause can directly be linked to misery.
Gang violence-how did this come about from a noble cause?
Malaria-seriuosly, same question?
treaty of versaille-it wasn't a noble cause, it was the victors of WWI seeking revenge and imposing tremendously difficult obligations on germany. how is this noble?
WWII-again, how was this linked to a noble cause?
and the funniest one of all..Womens suffrage-you're saying that womens suffrage was a bad thing? so women shouldn't be able to vote?
Social/welfar state/cultural decay and eventual bankruptcy-its easy to make a claim and not back them up with evidence. states like france and sweden are social welfare states yet they seem to be just fine. and their culture is not in decay. infact, the scandivanian countries have the highest living standard in the world. so if you could actually provide me with a logical link between the mere presence of a social welfare state and cultural decay and eventual bankruptcy, im all ears.
I think you should also reconsider how you define freedom and choice. If someone cannot afford access to quality health and educatioin, it is not their 'choice'..it is their circumstance.
"Maybe the better debate is whether you believe health and education to be in the realm of rights? "
No, I do not. If you expand "rights" to include things that, in order to provide, you must infringe on the rights of others, then you diminish the real rights basic to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness".
Whether you feel these rights are God given, or are "Natural Law", they are those rights everyone is due based on their humanity.
America was founded by people who sought to guarantee these natural rights through the creation of civil society.
In the civil society, the individual is recognized and accepted as more than an abstract statistic or faceless member of some group; rather, he is a unique, spiritual being with a soul and a conscience. He is free to discover his own potential and pursue his own legitimate interests, tempered, however, by a moral order that has its foundation in faith. As such, the individual in the civil society strives, albeit imperfectly, to be virtuous—that is, restrained, ethical, and honorable.
In the civil society, private property and liberty are inseparable. The individual’s right to live freely and safely and pursue happiness includes the right to acquire and possess property, which represents the fruits of his own labor. As the individual’s time on earth is finite, so, too, is his labor. The illegitimate denial or diminution of his private property enslaves him to another and denies him his liberty.
To the extent that the state makes material demands on individual property, it makes him a slave. The only legitimate demands the state has on property are those specifically allowed in the constitution,; the raising of taxes for those limited necessary functions delegated to the state that serve the direct common interest such as maintenance of the national defense, interstate commerce (roads), etc.
By expanding the concept of rights to include the guarantee of healthcare or education, you must by necessity deprive citizens of more fundamental rights to pay for it.
This in no way prevents a community from providing healthcare or education to its populace. Any state or city can decide such things are a necessary component of their community. If you don't like that they do or they don't, you can move down the road. For the federal government to impose such requirements is a direct violation of the Constitution.
ALSO:
1. "and the funniest one of all..Womens suffrage-you're saying that womens suffrage was a bad thing? so women shouldn't be able to vote?"
I was joking, which is why I wrote "just kidding"
2. Prohibition was a"noble cause" to those who pushed it. Likewise, banning DDT is a "noble cause" to environmentalists. The Treaty of Versaille was part of Wilson's "noble cause" to to provide self-determination to the peoples of central and eastern Europe.
3. "states like france and sweden are social welfare states yet they seem to be just fine. and their culture is not in decay."
But European culture is the advanced stages of cultural decay. Both France and Sweden are becoming Islamized, and if present trends contine, will become majority muslim countries by mid century. You may or may not think this a good thing, but they certainly won't be France or Sweden culturally any more. And in case you hadn't noticed, the unsustainable welfare states of Europe are at the initial stages of insolvency. Today Greece, tomorrow Spain, Portugal and Ireland.
"But European culture is the advanced stages of cultural decay. Both France and Sweden are becoming Islamized, and if present trends contine, will become majority muslim countries by mid century."
you have to be kidding right. that is some sensationalist crap that rightwingers love to spew. France and sweden are not becoming islamized in any way, they remain staunchly secular nations..their populations are just more ethnically diverse now. please don't believe everything you see on faux news. and they certainly are not in the stages of cultural decay. Infact, im very curious as to what you define as cultural decay and where you see concrete examples of it..please enlighten me!
Most people who use such talking points as france and sweden being islamized, also believe that the new Miss USA is a hezbollah terrorist.
"By expanding the concept of rights to include the guarantee of healthcare or education, you must by necessity deprive citizens of more fundamental rights to pay for it."
But that is where you're getting the argument twisted. You are being taxed..therefore you are already not enjoying the freedom to your full paycheck. You do not have anymore freedom on that issue then any other person in this world..apart from those living in tax free havens.
Thus, the tax rate is not an issue of freedom..it is an issue of proportionlitiy. HOW MUCH should we be taxed, not WHETHER we should be taxed. That is another debate. But to construct the argument as an issue of freedom is false.
We also differ on a core idea, and that is the concept of rights. Thats why we'll never agree.
You seem to believe in solely civil rights.
I believe in both civil and economic rights. I believe one cannot and should not function with the other. Both are necessary to be able to live a life of dignity.
The universal declaration of human rights agrees with me.
"The first cluster of articles, 3 to 21, sets forth civil and political rights to which everyone is entitled. The right to life, liberty and personal security, recognized in Article 3, sets the base for all following political rights and civil liberties, including freedom from slavery, torture and arbitrary arrest, as well as the rights to a fair trial, free speech and free movement and privacy.
The second cluster of articles, 22 to27, sets forth the economic, social and cultural rights to which all human beings are entitled. The cornerstone of these rights is Article 22, acknowledging that, as a member of society, everyone has the right to social security and is therefore entitled to the realization of the economic, social and cultural rights "indispensable" for his or her dignity and free and full personal development. Five articles elaborate the rights necessary for the enjoyment of the fundamental right to social security, including economic rights related to work, fair remuneration and leisure, social rights concerning an adequate standard of living for health, well-being and education, and the right to participate in the cultural life of the community."
http://www.un.org/rights/HRToday/declar.htm
"you have to be kidding right. that is some sensationalist crap that rightwingers love to spew. France and sweden are not becoming islamized in any way, they remain staunchly secular nations..their populations are just more ethnically diverse now. please don't believe everything you see on faux news. and they certainly are not in the stages of cultural decay. Infact, im very curious as to what you define as cultural decay and where you see concrete examples of it..please enlighten me!"
I think you if you look into a little bit you will be surprised at how rapidly Europe is disintegrating. I have never seen fox News address this subject. I have been to both Marseilles and to Malmo in the past three years; believe me they are not what you think France and Sweden would be. They can thank in part their "staunch secularism" for their below replacement rate birthrates. A culture that can't bother to reproduce is certainly in "decay".
How much art of significance eminates from these countries? Nobel prizes? Technological innovations? Europe is still a culture that contributes, but it has become an ever more minor player compared to America and the dynamic economies of Asia.
"You are being taxed..therefore you are already not enjoying the freedom to your full paycheck."
So they might as well take all of it, and then portion out as "they" see fit?
"The universal declaration of human rights agrees with me."
I'll take the Constitution of the United States of America.
Your economic rights by necessity erode civil rights, and they are ever expanding. New rights would pop up as fast as people could think of them. Today's right to basic healthcare inevitably would lead to tomorrows right to a "Cadillac" plan. The right to shelter would eventually include a 6 bedroom house with a pool. More and more needs to be taken from the "rich" until eventually the whole thing collapses.
I want a world of prosperity, a world free from need for all people. A world where everyone is free to pursue their individual vision of hapiness. The best way to achieve this has been proven by history. Why submit to the politics of resentment and take the easy path to tyrrany when the hard road to freedom has already been paved?
Geeze, this is a tough one. Beck and his ilk are getting people excited over the Constitution and basic American values. But it's a cheap, politically oriented gloss that gets dumbasses and lines the pockets of those talk hosts and their networks.
I wish a nonpartisan person with a brain were doing something similar. The U.S. needs unrest about now, but Conservo-talk and tea-bagging isn't the way to go.
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