Saturday, December 11, 2010

A post for the adults.


It looks like terrorism has hit home for the folks in Sweden of all places. It just goes to show you that no one is safe in the world anymore. This battle for the soul of militant Islamic minds could be raging for awhile. -Coming to a town square near you. -

Anyway, tonight I want to share something I ran across while reading Slate.com and get your opinions on it. It has to do with the very serious and sensitive subject of incest and how one particular case is being prosecuted in the state of New York. Since we are all adults I figured we could discuss it and learn from each other.

"David Epstein, a 46-year old political science professor at Columbia University, has been charged with third-degree incest for allegedly having consensual sexual relations with his 24-year-old daughter. Under New York State law, a person is guilty of that crime when he or she has sex "with a person whom he or she knows to be related to him or her, whether through marriage or not, as an ancestor, descendant, brother or sister of either the whole or the half blood, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece." If the allegations are true, that would apply to Epstein—and also to his daughter. Why wasn't she charged for the crime as well?

Because she's seen as the victim. Prosecutors could have made a case against the daughter, but when it comes to incest, the authorities tend to focus on one party. In this situation, "consent" is irrelevant, since it's the act itself that constitutes the crime; and blame tends to fall on whichever half of the incestuous couple has more control. A law professor told Salon today that children are generally assumed to be part of a "protected class" even when they're above the age of consent. So the older party tends to be considered the guilty one, although in some cases—a man caring for his bedridden and elderly mother, for example—the ages of perceived control could be reversed.

In some cases, both parties are held accountable. Earlier this year, a 48-year-old man from Palm Coast, Fla., named Alton Everett Smith pleaded guilty to incest after impregnating his 27-year-old daughter. She, too, was charged with incest (after giving birth to her own half-brother) and is now serving five years of probation.* That's despite the fact that the father was clearly in control of the relationship: He was pimping her out for sex on Craigslist. According to court records, the daughter has a tattoo reading "Daddy's Girl" on her behind.

What happens in cases in which the power dynamic is less clear—as between similarly aged siblings? As a general rule, an older sibling will be in greater legal jeopardy than a younger one, and a brother gets more blame than a sister. In 2003, a football player named Tony Washington was convicted of engaging in sexual intercourse with his biological sister. At the time of the act, she was 15 and he was 16. While Washington pleaded guilty (and is now a registered sex offender) his sister was never charged."
[Story]

Now before anyone goes off the rails on this and says that this is a double standard and reverse sexism run amok; I give you cases where mothers were charged with having incestuous relationships with their sons, here and here.

I am just trying to help you come to a "fair and balanced" opinion. There seems to be so little of that these days.

69 comments:

Diane Ivy said...

You know some people sure are messed up. And this happens at one of our elite educational institutions, no less. Even by Ivy League standards, Columbia University has a reputation as far left. Obama's alma mater offers a soapbox to terrorist dictators but a much cooler reception to conservative speakers. The school is infamous for journalism students cheating on an ethics exam and for offering a platform to President Obama's PLO buddy Rashid Khalidi.

Parents who haven't decided yet whether the school is worth the $41,160/year undergraduate tuition (plus $10,570 for room and board and $2,144 for "mandatory fees") might think twice after reading about Professor Epstein. Then again, perhaps incest will be too much even for Columbia and he'll have to hit the job market in these tough times.

Maybe President Obama is looking for a "Family Values" czar?

Hathor said...

I wonder how do certain people manage their lives in a world that is 3 degrees from Barack Obama.

Ms. Manitoba said...

Justice. It's tough to achieve. There are cookie cutter pronouncements even in court. Really, to achieve justice each case must be decided based on its unique situation and characteristics. I could imagine that a daughter could be the dominant one. (I know this goes against some extreme feminist beliefs ... but I rejected that extremism long ago.)
For example, I could see a situation where an intelligent daughter (for whatever reason) truly seduces ... "truly" is the key word ... we're not talking "seduces" like the kind in pornography ... she seduces a father who might be mentally challenged. I could see that. Or drunk. Or in some way incapacitated. Now -- should he be tried for incest. No. And what about the cases where it's very hard to judge who has the greater power? I'm assuming field, that you are questioning this cookie cutter kind of justice too. Well, I agree with you ... if that's what you're doing.

Ms. Manitoba said...

Oh, but I meant to say also, in this Epstein case, I couldn't judge really. One has to really know the parties involved very well, right?

Anonymous said...

However they administer justice in the courts, incest is wrong, period. But it well known in the black community that incest happens quite often. But it is not talked about.

Field how do you feel about incest? do you care? Surely there must be a moral compass in you that says "this is wrong" or " ahh, it isn't so bad." But then again, this IS FN Blog. Most resident IDs have no sense of right or wrong...only what makes them feel good.

Rudy said...

The incest law should apply only when at least one of the persons is under the age of 18.

As cold and morbid as it may sound, I say that if the two parties are 18 or older, and are of sound mind, then it should be viewed as sex between to consenting adults.

Rudy said...

Anonymous said...
However they administer justice in the courts, incest is wrong, period. But it well known in the black community that incest happens quite often. But it is not talked about.


Hmm... I didn't know that. Upon what source are you making this assertion?

How often does incest occur in 'non-black communities'?

My critical and inquisitive mind wants to know.

Crane said...

Ms. Manitoba said...
"Oh, but I meant to say also, in this Epstein case, I couldn't judge really"

Well, your reluctance to jump to conclusions is admirable, and you are obviously a thinking person, but really, you can't bring yourself to see that this is whacked?

Professor Epstein is obviously mot "mentally challenged". Also, there is little question who the adult should be in a father-daughter realtionship.

A society does not designate certain behaviors taboo for trivial reasons. Incest is wrong for many reasons, and there is little room for "nuance" when it comes to judging this situation. The dude is a deviant and should be done with his academic career.

I can agree with Rudy that since the daughter is over 21, this is not a criminal matter. But society's disapproval should still be expressed.

Rudy said...

No, doubt that 'society's disapproval should be expressed.' Incest should be stigmatized to the nth degree.

Anonymous said...

epstein and daughter is a clear case of lust run wild. it is the same problem in some black families. it is sick. unfortunately most people are too weak to restrain themselves when lust arises. lust controls and dominates most humans, esp in the black community as evidenced by the high percentage of babies born out of wedlock.

Anonymous said...

rudy-"How often does incest occur in 'non-black communities'?"

Not very often and stop feigning that you are unaware what happens in quite a few black families. don't believe it? ask bf and bw...those brave enough to speak the truth will tell you but most have been taught not to talk about it.

field negro said...

Field how do you feel about incest? do you care? Surely there must be a moral compass in you that says "this is wrong" or " ahh, it isn't so bad."

.....I am thinking.....I want to say I don't care as long as both people are consenting adults, (Incest is defined as sex between close relatives, no?) but I must say that it is a matter of degrees of separation with me. Father/daughter mother/son is not cool. And I take this position because of the biological consequences of two people so close in relationship having children may have on the child.

As for cousins; I know it's illegal in 24 states, but I say knock yourself out. And I know that as a leftist it hurts my cause because you have all those right wingers who are multiplying due to relationships with cousins and such; but hey, I am sticking with my libertarian streak on this one.

Anonymous said...

I find it interesting that Field does a post of this sort but fails to even mention incest done to bf in the black community.

oh, I forgot. Field is a bm, and so is Rudy. They will plead ingnorance as if it never happens. Way to go men.

Hathor said...

anon 11:49

Its interesting that in people's world like yours, it always comes down to what Black folk do, even if the discussion is about the blue sky.

It seems that are so many alternate universes on FN's blog.

field negro said...

"How often does incest occur in 'non-black communities'?

My critical and inquisitive mind wants to know."

When did certain states become all black? Just asking. Still, I think, as in other communities, it is a problem with black folks as well.

I have heard too many horror stories of -most often-male relatives sexually abusing others in the home.

Anon 11:49 pm, we don't shy away from any subject here.

Ms. Manitoba and Crane, I am nodding my head at what you both said.

field negro said...

"anon 11:49

Its interesting that in people's world like yours, it always comes down to what Black folk do, even if the discussion is about the blue sky."

Hathor, that is a good observation. (Many of the Anons. are like that) I will speak to the President of Anon Inc. about this.

Anonymous said...

Field, "And I know that as a leftist it hurts my cause because you have all those right wingers who are multiplying due to relationships with cousins and such; but hey, I am sticking with my libertarian streak on this one."

You are one sick dude. And conservatives don't engage in sex...not one of them. Their Christian values won't allow them to do such a sick sinful deed. But I understand how you leftists feel. Fucking anyone and anything is fine with you...or as you say, "KNOCK yourselves out"...morals no longer exist in your leftist book, it's a free for all! Screw cousins, uncles, aunts nephews, even each other wives--it's all cool with left wingnuts.

Since people like you have killed off God, the Creator(in your mind), there is no one you have to answer to. Therefore you no longer have any moral responsibility to yourselves or anyone.

field negro said...

"You are one sick dude. And conservatives don't engage in sex...not one of them. Their Christian values won't allow them to do such a sick sinful deed."

That's not true, I dated a Christian conservative once and she was....well... again, that's not true.

"morals no longer exist in your leftist book, it's a free for all! Screw cousins, uncles, aunts nephews, even each other wives--it's all cool with left wingnuts."

You left out husbands.

Anonymous said...

Hathor, "It seems that are so many alternate universes on FN's blog."

You are full of it. They don't call Field "The Racism Chaser" because he is busy following alternative universes. I am always amazed at your incredible denial. Or is it that you are constitutionally incapable of being honest with yourself?

Hathor said...

anon12:13,

The sky is blue.

Anonymous said...

Field, "You left out husbands."

Oops! sorry. I also forgot dogs and chickens. with no morals you leftist will do(screw)anything. You leftists are a danger to pimps trying to make a living.

Crane said...

anon at 11:49 is trying to provoke a response by posting something inflammatory.

This is not a racial issue, it is a cultural issue. One must acknowledge that the pressure on sexual mores in general is coming from the left.

It's been said that conservatives want freedom of choice on everything except sex; liberals want freedom of choice on nothing but sex, and there's some truth to that.

I for one am glad that the Epstein family's actions are receiving so much condemnation.

Please let's not generalize.

Hathor said...

anon 12:06

The death of God was 1882.

Anonymous said...

Hathor, "anon12:13,

The sky is blue."

Is that one of your alternative universes? you leftists are such lightweights.

Hathor said...

anon12;13

It is you, who chose to argue with lightweights.

Anonymous said...

Given the sensationalism in mainstream US news media coverage of alleged sexual impropriety charges filed against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in Sweden, it’s no surprise that other significant news about America involving that Scandinavian nation is being left uncovered.

In early November, Sweden called on the US to end the death penalty and to improve conditions in maximum security prisons, as the United States went through its first-ever Universal Periodic Review by the United Nation’s Human Rights Council

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/334

Anonymous said...

Hathor, "anon 12:06

The death of God was 1882."

Hathor, from the article you linked to:

"What Nietzsche is concerned at in relating the above is that God is dead in the hearts of modern men - killed by rationalism and science. This same God however, before becoming dead in men's hearts and minds, had provided the foundation of a "Christian-moral" defining and uniting approach to life as a shared cultural set of beliefs that had defined a social and cutural outlook within which people had lived their lives.

Nietzsche seems to be suggesting that the acceptance of the Death of God will also involve the ending of accepted standards of morality and of purpose. Without the former and accepted faith based standards society is threatened by a nihilistic situation where peoples lives are not particularly constrained by considerations of morality or particularly guided by any faith related sense of purpose."

Thanks for proving the immorality of leftists.

Here's a quote by Dostoevsky that also supports it:

"By removing God from the act of creation, w remove ourselves from our accountability to God."

And, "Without God, all things are permissible."

You continue to prove that immorality is permissible. The trouble with human beings like you is when you killed off God, you killed off any sense of morality and decency.

Anonymous said...

"anon at 11:49 is trying to provoke a response by posting something inflammatory."

Since when did the truth become inflammatory...When it came to FN blog? don't worry, it's rare that the truth is spoken here. You are safe from it.

Attaturk said...

"In early November, Sweden called on the US to end the death penalty and to improve conditions in maximum security prisons, as the United States went through its first-ever Universal Periodic Review by the United Nation’s Human Rights Council"

Sweden sounds like it’s circling down the toilet.

Anonymous said...

This Wikileaks episode is going to hurt the US diplomatic relations even more so now. Assange needs to be imprisoned for life as an international traitor and Wikileaks shut down FOREVER.

CAROLYN MOON said...

Field, I know you said that you welcome differing views and opinions, however, "anon" has been trolling this site for a long time.
I know you had the troll up for a day or so but maybe he should be a regular with "anon" written under it.
All the public whimpering and crying of these so-called Christians,not only Christians but leaders/pastors, e.g. Swaggart, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, Eddie Long, M. Warnke, Gov.Sandord, etc. etc. etc. They all engaged in sex acts outside of their marriages and against their "religious principles". Human frailties, hypocrisy, duplicity and lack of grace permeates all groups including CHRISTIANS!

field negro said...

Carolyn, the trolls are too numerous to count. :)

Mack Lyons said...

"Is that one of your alternative universes? you leftists are such lightweights."

"lefists", "liberals", "marxists", "socialists" -- it's amazing how right-wingers take these words, paint over them with negative connotations, and then beat liberal-minded people and anyone who's remotely in favor of anything related to liberalism or the Democrat party over the head with it.

Words take on power, when spoken enough times. Conservatives frame themselves as the "good" guys and control the narrative. Liberals try to do the same by calling them "right-wing wackos" and it doesn't take, because Conservatives are proud of that label. There's no shame in their game.

So when someone fires off a comment that involves those keywords, I tune out, knowing not only where they stand, but that they're not worth listening to or arguing with. It's essentially the political corollary of Godwin's Law Of Internet Arguments. Replace "liberal" with "Hitler" and you'll understand.

Mack Lyons said...

"Thanks for proving the immorality of leftists."

Exactly how does an observation that most people may not have a moral or mental compass moored by a belief and faith in God prove the so-called "immorality" of left-leaning individuals? Unless you're saying that all "leftists" are immoral by default. In that case, your argument is not only disengenuous, but thoroughly bankrupt.

"You continue to prove that immorality is permissible. The trouble with human beings like you is when you killed off God, you killed off any sense of morality and decency."

It must be like the Special Olympics up in that head of yours, with the mental gymnastics and all.

Mack Lyons said...

"Carolyn, the trolls are too numerous to count. :)"

Sometimes I wonder why you allow them to exist at all.

No offense, but seeing the trolls attempt to derail and dominate discussion nearly every damn day gets tiring, especially when you have to bitch-slap these fools because allowing the insanity to exist untouched becomes downright unbearable.

Hathor said...

anon 12:38,
I see you misinterpreted Nietzsche, just as Richard Wagner and Adolf Hitler did.

Anonymous said...

Mack Lyons, "No offense, but seeing the trolls attempt to derail and dominate discussion nearly every damn day gets tiring, especially when you have to bitch-slap these fools because allowing the insanity to exist untouched becomes downright unbearable."

Ok Mack. I'll leave so that you won't be so damn tired. btw, there was only "one" anon handling all you losers tonight. Yep. That's all it took. Nevertheless, it's good to see that you got your spunk back. Now you got me depressed, because you and that moonface Carolyn are calling me a troll...I don't know why you call me that when clearly I am not. At least Field knows me when he sees me. You and Carolyn are such sorer loosers you have to blame your lost on 'trolls'. You two are pathetic atheist left wingers who whine all the time. You are such cry babies.

What would you weaklings do without anons, turn on each other? You know it's true. Well, as they say, "you never know a good thing until it's gone." Well, you are going to miss me.

That means your Xmas is ruined without anon in your lives. Mack, you know it's true!

Anonymous said...

Hathor, "anon 12:38,
I see you misinterpreted Nietzsche, just as Richard Wagner and Adolf Hitler did."

Oh really? Prove it! Maybe YOU misinterpreted Nietzsche? I bet my bottom dollar you did. Once again, you, Mack Lyons and poor Carolyn Moon prove leftists are nothing but lightweights. But I still love you cause you are my weak brothers and sisters who just can't keep up with your conservative brother...oh, excuse me..I meant to say troll...does that make you feel better? LOL

Anonymous said...

Field, "Carolyn, the trolls are too numerous to count. :)"

Field, you are up awfully late tonight. Are you drinking that hooch juice again? Please, I am begging you...please give me that recipe. Otherwise, your Iggles are "going down" tomorrow. BTW, I predict the Cowboys will shut down Michael Vick. So make sure you have plenty Pepto Bismol. LOL

You liberal progressive Negroes are sooo funny. You always lose..LOL

Yet, you still think you are smart..ROFL.

Shady_Grady said...

That's pretty disgusting. That said I fully expect that in 10-20 years we'll see lots more people coming out of the closet to agitate for incestuous relationships or polygamous relationships.

Part of me thinks that both people in an adult incestuous relationship should be locked up. But the libertarian part of me say that if they are adults we should logically leave them alone.

Hathor said...

anon 3:39,

In the words of Geraldine, "you don't know me that well" to call me sister.

Anonymous said...

Hey, if they're both legal age, and the sex wasn't forced, let them get their freak on, if that's how they get their jollies.

I think it's repulsive, myself. But it's no worse than one guy sticking his johnson up another guy's butt, and we all know that's cool.

Um, right?

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should have DADTYM?

(Don't Ask, Don't Tell Yo Momma?)

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry I'm not trying to sound insensitive, but to me a victim is someone who couldn't say this is wrong (i.e. a child or elderly person) She's 24 she knew this was wrong why is she not being held accountable. I think it's disgusting and I think she needs to own up too. She is not a victim.

Rudy said...

"Not very often and stop feigning that you are unaware what happens in quite a few black families. don't believe it? ask bf and bw...those brave enough to speak the truth will tell you but most have been taught not to talk about it."

Since you didn't answer my other questions, that tells me that you are basing your assertions on one too many viewing of Precious, which makes you an idiot.

Mack Lyons said...

"Ok Mack. I'll leave so that you won't be so damn tired. btw, there was only "one" anon handling all you losers tonight. Yep. That's all it took. Nevertheless, it's good to see that you got your spunk back. Now you got me depressed, because you and that moonface Carolyn are calling me a troll...I don't know why you call me that when clearly I am not. At least Field knows me when he sees me. You and Carolyn are such sorer loosers you have to blame your lost on 'trolls'. You two are pathetic atheist left wingers who whine all the time. You are such cry babies.

What would you weaklings do without anons, turn on each other? You know it's true. Well, as they say, "you never know a good thing until it's gone." Well, you are going to miss me."


Nah, I doubt it. Your kind are a dime a dozen anyways. I'm sure Anon Inc. will have a replacement lined up for you within the next couple of hours, if not sooner.

maria said...

put yourself in the place of epstein's wife, the mother of the 24-year-old. he is--or was--still married.

i have two daughters. if their father had sex with either one of them, i would want to see him prosecuted to the full extent of the law. and i would want my daughter to seek mental health counseling immediately. my guess is that this sort of situation probably doesn't occur without some sort of mental issues going on as well--alcoholism, drug abuse, untreated depression, whatever.

Anonymous said...

Since this is so common among conservatives, it isn't news.
I did note the position of an incest story next to the Sarey Miracle Birth. Alaska...home to very high incest rates....a Moms who is never at home...a teen daughter and a Dad, home alone during those long, cold Alaskan winters. The cover-up. The Downs. Hmmm.

Mold

Anonymous said...

Several commenters have mentioned black women as incest survivors.

There is another category of "victims": black gay men. Many black gay men I know are incest and/or child sex abuse survivors.

For example, I know a black gay man who was sexually abused by BOTH of his older brothers when he was a kid. Both of the older brothers are currently in prison, however, not for the sexual abuse. They are in prison because of other criminal activities like drug dealing.

BTW, some of the black gay men I know who experienced childhood sexual abuse say that the abuse has NOTHING to do with their being gay. On the other hand, some black gay men who are survivors believe that they would not be gay if the childhood abuse had not happened.

Rudy said...

Question for the "critique-everything-black" crowd: Since, according to your belief system, black men are never around to raise their kids, how can we molest our kids? Wouldn't that require the us to be present?

Don't think too hard, it is a rhetorical question.

the Cougar Hunter said...

"a Moms who is never at home...a teen daughter and a Dad, home alone during those long, cold Alaskan winters. The cover-up. The Downs. Hmmm.

Mold"


Man that mold dude sure has a twisted fantasy life! not really all that surprising though, is it?

Anonymous said...

Really? That's the best you have? Claim it's a fantasy? Oh, providing proof would be, like, work.
Yet, I didn't think of this possibility until I read FN's post and saw Sarey below. And then all the incest commonalities came to the fore. Absent Mom...Dad left alone with teener daughter...the Downs...the Wasilla incest rates...the cover-up that doesn't make sense from a political standpoint...
But, you are free to worship the image of Sarey you create.
Assuming maleness is sexism. For all you thinkerate...I am old enough to know about the Great Depression and of an age where I don't care what widdle boys say.
Assange was accused of having a condom fail during consensual activity with a person.

Mold

Anonymous said...

its no fantasy to me, it is very real. Close my eyes and think of Sarey...mmmm...changing my diaper....Fox News...teen daughter and grizzly bears. Corn on the cob from the government...where's my hat?

Mildew

CloroxSanitizes said...

Anonymous said...
Since this is so common among conservatives, it isn't news.
I did note the position of an incest story next to the Sarey Miracle Birth. Alaska...home to very high incest rates....a Moms who is never at home...a teen daughter and a Dad, home alone during those long, cold Alaskan winters. The cover-up. The Downs. Hmmm.

Mold



Mold...do you ever realize how much of a moronic liberal you sound like? Seriously, no one can be this outright stupid. How old are you 14-15? Does your mom know what you are "attempting" to say on the computer? How many porn movies titled incest and lily white girls have you downloaded? Whats that sound.....wutta...wutta...whacka...whacka.....oh molds on the computer again.....

Anonymous said...

Rudy said...
Question for the "critique-everything-black" crowd: Since, according to your belief system, black men are never around to raise their kids, how can we molest our kids? Wouldn't that require the us to be present?

Don't think too hard, it is a rhetorical question

This is like a battle of wits with unarmed participants. So again, can a guy with no arms caught with a gun get arrested for being armed?

Rudy, the same way they concieved them...its call hit it and run, before the bills start and mommma throws yo ass out for bein a no good shiftless.....

Anonymous said...

Mack Lyons said...
"Carolyn, the trolls are too numerous to count. :)"

Sometimes I wonder why you allow them to exist at all.

No offense, but seeing the trolls attempt to derail and dominate discussion nearly every damn day gets tiring, especially when you have to bitch-slap these fools because allowing the insanity to exist untouched becomes downright unbearable.

Translation from Mack:
Why do you let the trolls speak. They always break the rules and speak facts and truth and dont agree with my delusional posts.
I can't hang, its too tough. I need blogging affirmative action and can't really do anything other then call people names like leftists do because my logic is that of one who is used to getting support and making excuses for every phase of my life. SO when real adults turn up it pisses me off as they only try to make sense and dont live by the code of finger pointing and excuse making.
First the women start dissing me and now other peoples...this aint fair FN. I need affirmative blogging action.

Translation provided courtesy of your international anon service.

CloroxSanitizes said...

maria said...
put yourself in the place of epstein's wife, the mother of the 24-year-old. he is--or was--still married.

. my guess is that this sort of situation probably doesn't occur without some sort of mental issues going on as well.

Maria, your absolutely right. He is a left wing radical, Huffington post blogger and avid Obama supporter.

La♥audiobooks said...

I have a problem with parents and adult children who want to have sexual relations with each other, and people who think it's their personal business (or for those who want to compare it to homosexuality). It think adult incest isn't just their business, it is all of our business as a society.

I think incest can cause severe confusing and damaging spiral effects on the mental, emotional and social behaviors of a society. We have too many sexual corruption and predators of children and innocent adult victims to deal with already. And most of all with parent/child or sibling incest, there are risk of serious birth defects that our society will have to deal with also.

As for this case, in fairness there are parents who do "groom" their young children into becoming their adult victims. Most incest cases like this starts when "adult victims" are minors, therefore the concept of early psychological conditioning and manipulation should be considered before anyone punishes an adult child even if they consent.

However in this case, deep down I don't know. Something makes me feel the daughter should also be held accountable if you consider her present age, her overall "normal" mental health, the social climate and environment we now live (ignorance is no longer an excuse).


So, Mr. 'Epstein' and daughter lives in NewYork huh? Has anyone seen No_slappz lately?

La♥audiobooks said...

"i have two daughters. if their father had sex with either one of them, i would want to see him prosecuted to the full extent of the law. "

What if they both started having sex with each other as adults and there were no sexual occurrences between them nor any pre-meditating sexual intent on his part even when she was a minor?

What then? I don't like it either, but why should he be the only one to get prosecuted?

Anonymous said...

Still waiting for proof...but I only expect ad hominem from trolls.
May I suggest using the Intertubes?

Liberals/Progressives have the Fact-based advantage at present. Evidence...Scientific Method...reproducibility.
Liberal is the new "Juden".

Why is Woody Allen a role model? He should have been placed in prison where he could be truly neurotic.

Somehow I find it creepy that you fantasize about Sarey and incest. I merely mentioned that the evidence, circumstantial at best, indicated that there could have been incest at the Palins. Yet you find it sexual...and thrilling.

Mold

Anonymous said...

If find it creepy that you find my fantasies creepy. Does that make sense? I imply that Sarey had a Downs syndrome child because of incest, and you think I have no soul?

Gee, maybe you are right...

Mildew

focusedpurpose said...

LAA-

"So, Mr. 'Epstein' and daughter lives in NewYork huh? Has anyone seen No_slappz lately?"

now, see...

thank you for addressing the conditioning that often comes into play.

there are not enough facts released for this particular case to say whether the 24 yo woman should be prosecuted. by that i mean if the father began grooming, conditioning, and molesting her at a young age, i would say no prosecution. if she decided she couldn't find any other boyfriend BESIDE her father at 24, yes, prosecute.

and i say this as one that it took to get to the age 25 to assert myself with my parents. however, at 24 and 25 one surely knows the difference between right and wrong. sex with one's parents and relatives is wrong at any age. i am not sure how folks are having such a hard time just calling it. i guess we have officially reached the era where ANYTHING goes.

Rudy, really? smh...

focusedpurpose said...

let me be specific. Rudy, it was this comment:

"Question for the "critique-everything-black" crowd: Since, according to your belief system, black men are never around to raise their kids, how can we molest our kids? Wouldn't that require the us to be present?"

that had me shaking my head...

Anon that addressed the little boys and bw/bg that know first hand of the rampant incest/molestation/sexual abuse that thrives in the so-called blk community because the bm is to be protected at all costs. yes, bm suffer very real ills and injustices in this society. they also PERPETRATE them and this, too, should be addressed with the same fervor the injustices against bm frequently are.

i agree Anon. i, too, have encountered these male survivors. i am thankful you made the distinction that molestation does not render folks gay.

again, it seems like earth is a free for all where anything goes...

Rudy said...

Of course it would have you shaking your head, because you can't choose from two stereotypes that are diametrically opposite to fuel your "black men are ____________" beliefs.

I have said my piece.

Moving on.

maria said...

the girl was 18 when this began. it went on for three years. she is now 24. i do not believe based on these facts that she should be charged, and i do not believe for a MINUTE that when she was younger her father wasn't "grooming" her for this role.


http://nyulocal.com/city/2010/12/10/columbia-professor-charged-with-incest-with-daughter/

he was a professor in a position of power he could assert over many young minds (and bodies). that's another reason i would press for full prosecution, and i was glad to see columbia removed him from its teaching roster.

funny, a hedline on a post by epstein summed up the whole issue nicely:


It's the Abuse of Trust, Stupid
Posted April 23, 2009 | 10:38 PM (EST)

The Republicans seem to have a hard time reading the room on the torture issue, so I'll try to make this really simple. Democratic society requires an open government - those in power tell the public what they're doing, and voters see what they do, evaluate the results, and return...

Hathor said...

FP,

Human beings are fallible, but Black men do not over represent immorality. Every time you open your mouth you insult my Father, Brother, Son and Cousins and I don't mean in a rhetorical sense, you are thoroughly vitriolic. I hope you will think of the things you say, because you never know who you may need help from, that is if you be live to be old.

focusedpurpose said...

Hathor-

IF your father, brother, son, and cousins are rapists, child molestors, incest perpetrators, violent to bw/bg, negligent in their duties as men and fathers,etc. then they are RIGHTFULLY insulted and i could NOT care less.

IF your father, brother, son, and cousins are none of these things, then you may consider getting them to not cram their feet in shoes that do not fit them. or maybe you could knock off your hysterics on their behalf? the truth is the truth. the black community is RAMPANT with incest, molestation, sexual abuse, sexual assault etc. be insulted if you choose. i am too, that so many bm and bw act like it is ok behvaior and my job to quietly accept it.

IF your relatives are honorable men then they ALREADY KNOW what i am talking about unless they are as quizzical and confused as you present yourself to be.

my assertion stands. bm ARE on the receiving end of ills and injustice in this society. they are ALSO the perpetrators in large numbers. the same vehemence with which the injustices bm face is addressed should ALSO be present when discussing injustices they perpetrate.

this vehemence should be very present in those that comprise the groups that are most severely impacted by it-BW and children. for this reason, i make no apology for speaking. folks feeling "insulted" is a small price to pay.

having said that, just as there are bw that fit every possible stereotype, there are bw that don't. WHY can folks automaticly make the distinction when folks are discussing bw? WHY are there no "my momma, my sister, my daughter, my cousin..." when bw are being held more responsible/accountable than is ever permissible for the men to be? hmmm?

Hathor, you can fall back with your silly litle efforts to regulate me. you FAIL. now what else you got? go on back behind your door and we will pretend like this little episode never happened. see? i compromise, i will play THAT game of pretend with you. lol.

IF bm were as willing to look at themselves as they are to point fingers at everybody else, the condition of bpeople would be decidedly different. IF FN wanted, he could easily find a very similar story with all black players. but i understand this is a political blog and racism chasing is the focus. so let's just all pretend wfolks are the ones with all the incest, molestation, serial killing, etc going on. to use your words, let's just pretend wm are the ones that over represent immorality. lol. sheer self defeating lunacy. now, THAT game i will NOT play.

btw, the women are designed to be the nurturers, teachers, and protectors of their children NOT the providers and PROTECTORS OF MEN. lol. got it?

Rudy, i simply said i shook my head at your silliness. Anon, already excercised patience and explained the obvious to you.

you are not a total lost cause, at least you are wise enough to move on. take Hathor with you. lol. thanks.

i find this blog and the comments entertaining.

agentX said...

Incest in the Ivy league, eh? I guess it's not reserved for the hood or the hillbillies anymore, huh Field?

BTW, your local hip-hop group Onyx are in deep trouble; in Korea of all places.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/12/117_77680.html

Clip of American rappers smoking weed causes stir

Now, these folks in Korea should have known that all American rappers are on the gangja. It's like cigarettes or coffee. But they mad out here, Field. We may need to call in Jesse Jackson.

Anonymous said...

Asssuming Sarey was the mother of the Downs Baby? Why?
It is more rational to assume Bristol is the babymomma. Timeline matches. Body morphology matches.

Again, you confuse evidence with sex. Like every teenage lad.

Mold