Oh my, what is happening in A-merry-ca? "Bye, bye, Ms. American pie", indeed. I thought that only bad ghetto children killed their parents? Apparently this type of depravity and villainous behaviour is not limited to those other people's children. Sometimes even real A-merry-can children can do bad things.
Anywhoo, speaking of bad things; I see that my friend Mr. beckkk is at it again. (No more caps for his name, he is not worthy.)
Today he tried to call out the unionized police officers in A-merry-ca, because he said that they were aligning themselves with Mumia Abu -Jamal. Talk about desperate measures. This man --and the people who employ him- have no shame, and just when we thought that they could go no lower, they do.
First, let me say for the record, that I think Mumia Abu-Jamal is guilty. I think he shot Philadelphia police officer, Daniel Faulkner, on the morning of December 9, 1981, here in Center City, Philadelphia. I did not come to that decision lightly, because, at first, I wanted to believe that he was innocent. But I have read voluminous records on the case and I am a colleague of Judge Albert Sabo's former law clerk--- who happened to be his clerk during the trial. So you can take from that what you will. Having said that, the trial itself could have been handled much better, and I do not believe that Abu-Jamal should be put to death for his crime because, quite frankly, I do not believe in the death penalty.
So here comes beckkk thirty years later. He is trying to use the one name that he knows will fire up the boys in blue to push his political agenda, and it's shameful how he is trying to do it: By using the connection between unions and certain progressive groups and pulling the two together to try and make a connection to Abu-Jamal that only he can see in his dark and twisted mind.
All of this, of course, was brought on because beckkk and company saw the massive showing of support from the boyz in blue up in Jersey for their union brothers and sisters, today. That was enough to scare any conservative out of his or her mind. Governor Krispy Kreme was nowhere in sight, and he called his own news conference where he called the union rally a "me first" rally. Nice.
I hope he feels that way when he gets stuck in his kitchen while his home burns and he needs one of those "me first" people to save his rather large ass.
Obviously A-mery-ca isn't believing the hype that FOX (and their friends) are trying to push on the rest of us. The one that says unions are bad and big business is good. So what do they do? They pull out all the stops and dig deep into their dirty bag of tricks to try and sway the rest of us.
Well, I am happy to report that it's not working. Not yet. Sadly, the right has just begun to fight.
98 comments:
Field - you know that saying Mumia is guilty is a big no-no in liberal circles. I'm with you - I just don't say it too loud before I get beaten with peyote and copies of his autobiography.
Anyway - yes, Beck is hoping to wedge cops from their fellow workers by throwing the red meat of Mumia. Hopefully, cops aren't that stupid - most serious progressives and labor activists don't that case as a big issue anymore. Is followers, OTOH -- well, its got all the ingredients for a Beck-Head conspiracy. Its a scary Black man in dreads, with radical ties from the 70's and possibly shot a cop. And he still writes commentary and is allowed to read the papers!! My stars and garters!
Forget the fact that the Abdul Jamal has been pretty much in solitary confinement since I was 5. Forget that he often spouts anti-American screeds so off the wall that it would make Green Party members blush and horror. And forget that no one except 9/11 Truth quacks and avid readers of Black Agenda Report give a damn what he says. For the Tea Party kooks - he's an angry Black man critical of the US government (good or for ill) so he must be dangerous and a friend of Obama.
First off, I like reading your comments LAC..You're a smart and informal Dude.
"I hope he feels that way when he gets stuck in his kitchen while his home burns and he needs one of those "me first" people to save his rather large ass."
lol
And yeah Field, I watch beckk a couple of times of week and I saw this evenings segment on Mumia Abu-Jamal.. Did you saw how he was going in on Van Jones?
Http//:You trolls can Google for proof.com
He's going in on the WI FOP
9:51 PM
"see"
We agree about Mumia. I felt the same way about Tookie. I don't support the death penalty either but these guys deserved to serve in solitary for the rest of their lives, at a minimum. Black folks loves them some rotten useless thugs. By the way, someone needs to tell Danny Glover to stop being guilty for having a wildly successful career so he can stop trying to rescue every loser black male out there. The guilt ridden middle class of all colors will be the death of us all, literally.
@LAC - I am not sure what you meant by that crack on Black Agenda Report which I contribute commentary to on occassion, but I don't think it would be fair to say that they don't make some pretty good cases on issues even if you disagree.
So that I am not guilty of jumping to conclusions please elaborate on your problems with Black Agenda Report.
I think on occassion Glen Ford gets out there a bit and is sometimes too harsh, but he and the contributors and editors bring up some very serious issues that effect black folks. I stopped writing for them for a minute because I didn't want to get caught up in overly Obama bashing,which I thought made it difficult to explain to people in a rational way, why Obama is not the progressive that blacks and progressives somehow assumed.
And I was demoralized a bit by the inability to actual have a rational conversation about who and what Obama really is, it was almost impossible to talk about
Field do you think folks are really listening and following Beck? I mean its great for political banter but his audience has been dwindling because its becoming obvious that he is making this crap up to keep the money rolling in.
I think your explanation of how little influence he had on this police and firefighters demonstration is a good one.
I mean who really cares what this kook has to say but a few lost folks who were already lost and the enemies of their fellow workers.
mell - Its probably not a good idea to take a everything I say as personal. The point was not so much to insinuate that Black Agenda folks are crazy (though some of those discussions, honestly take real leaps in logic). My point is that, and we both agree the Black Agenda Report and other fellow travelers are to the FAAAR Left of where most Black people and progressives find themselves. And those are the folks who listen to Mumia's commentary. So that's you, me on occasion, Alicia, Maria, maybe Field and a few people who read common dreams.
Most Black people my parents age would rather forget about the Panthers -- especially guys like Mumia. And most people my age (except for the rich college kids who oh so love to name drop the activist du jour to show how 'down' they are) never heard of the man.
So why build an argument about such a tiny sliver of the Left which comparatively could fit into a phone booth? Why would Beck insight his angry and ignorant followers about the words of some convicted old hippie whose been locked in a PA pokey for the better part of 25 years? Why build a political argument about such a relatively obscure character in our body politics? Lefties don't worry about David Duke or Stormfront.org.
Glen Beck is making a fuss because, Mumia Abdul Jamal is an angry Black who is critical of America. Forget that only about 10 people in a room of 100 know who he is, and only two of those people care about his case anymore.
@LAC okay I see your point, but Ford is not as far left as you assume. He was actually considering supporting Kucinich in the last election.
Whereas I would never have considered any of the bourgeosie candidates:)
@ Field -My position on Mumia's guilt is that so many Panthers and other revolutionaries were framed that I give him too the benefit of the doubt. I am not sure that he is innocent, but I am sure that he was targeted.
And yes I have read quite a bit about the case as well to form an opinion
mell - Support Kuicinich is pretty standard hardcore left, so no shock. But DK to 'bourgeosie' for your taste? OK, mell, now you've got me curious. Who would you possibly put up as President. You plan to pull Fannie Lou Hamer out the grave?
OK man, just joshing you. Hold on to your beliefs - we need idealists. We can agree to disagree and some where in the middle, on the side or out in the cosmos, we find solutions.
@LAC we already had this conversation. Kucinich is a liberal, and reformist at best and don't forget he talked tough about the war and some other stuff and then he caved.
Yeah you know where I am coming from. Restructure, redistribute, you know change "the system" cause it doesn't work. That is the real leftist position as they used to call it in the old days. Now they have taken to calling liberals leftist it shows that on some level the rulers are winning they even get to make up how folks are categorized.
In the old days the folks who were considered leftist were at least anti-capitalist, which of course I am. NOt socialist mind you but anti-capitlist. there has to be a third way.
mellaneous, "In the old days the folks who were considered leftist were at least anti-capitalist, which of course I am. NOt socialist mind you but anti-capitlist. there has to be a third way."
And what way is the third way?
Anyone familiar with the history of labor in this country can see that the Republicans are trying to turn the clock back 100 years. Google "Lawrence textile strike". The governor of Massachusetts in 1912 called in the National Guard to crush a strike. These loons are threatening the same thing today. We are stuck in a wingnut time warp. This is yet more of their reverse Robin Hood tactic of creating deficits by giving tax cuts to the rich and then crying "we're broke" to cut pay to the under-paid and services to the under-served. We quite literally can't afford to lose this fight.
As for Mumia, I will always give the benefit of the doubt to any activist that the government has had under surveillance for agitating against injustice.
http://homepages.sover.net/~foodsong/mumia1.htm
Meanwhile, no one was ever criminally charged in the 11 deaths (5 of them children)caused by the bombing of MOVE. That's what passes for justice 'round here.
@LAC...great opening post. I don't know as much about Mumia as I probably should, but I know enough people that were railroaded to look at it with at least a raised eyebrow.
@Mellaneous...I have probably read your stuff and possibly Linked to some pieces before when I was doing a lot of blogging. But I have a really bad taste in my mouth about Ford. I don't know what his issues are but he seems to have more than one with BHO. And had them from jump. Also the only people that don't know exactly who BHO is and what kind of President he was going to be are those that didn't do their homework,IMO. This is still ameriKKKa.
Now, about that beckerhead. In the real entertainment world, his ass would have been off the air two years ago. He is a drain on revenue, He has few if any sponsors. At least those that will openly sponsor him. He's a nut and a dangerous one at that. The only way he could get people I know to watch his show is if he promised to eat one live. And I am not endorsing or encouraging him doing so. Besides that been done before. No, this beckerwood is doing any and everything he can to get people to watch his sideshow again. He's done and is now passe, even among the tea klux klan. His ego is so big, he could end up having a big time meltdown on camera as a big F you to all of us. But the joke would be on him because no one would care anyway.
Thats for the citizens to decide but obviously its a way that considers the needs of everyone, not just the rich.
The third way would find a way to make sure all kids are educated, parents would be aided in raising their children.It would provide free and affordable day care and decent maternity leave, with pay.(The Europeans already have this)
Society would act like all kids were valuable and are supported in raising children, it would act as a real village to raise children as if they live in a community of human beings with real interests in common.
It would outlaw racism and sexism and all the other crap. You would be able and free to think badly of your neighbor if you wanted, but you couldn't discriminate against them.
It would spend money on putting folks to work at wages they could feed their families on. It would consider the environment and how to make things without poisoning the people and the earth.
Folks who work for a living would be treated with dignity and provided with decent vacation time and wouldn't be tossed out because some boss didn't like them.
In other words, it would be a society in which all human beings count and one in which everything wasn't commoditized or looked at as potential profit.
It would encourage both individual independence and group cooperation.It would encourage smaller production models while working to make the larger ones practicable.
I know that I am dreaming but the truth is I am not alone. Most want to live in a society in which everyone can be fed, clothed and sheltered and even provided health care. Everyone who wants to work should be allowed to.
And I know folks would want to live in a society in which their sons and daughters would not be tricked into fighting wars at the whim of those who would do it for profit and power. And some of us would want to live in a society where we didn't go about killing other folks cause the gov't says so.
@Sick up and Fed, ditto I think you are on the mark.Esp that line about if folks didn't know who Obama was hadn't done their homework.
Field do you think folks are really listening and following Beck? I mean its great for political banter but his audience has been dwindling because its becoming obvious that he is making this crap up to keep the money rolling in."
Mel. I hope you are right.
BTW, I understand where you and Sickup...are coming from as it relates to targeted black activist in this country (especially around the time of Faulkner's murder), but you have to believe me when I tell you that the case was pretty tight. There are some other issues that I won't get into, but again, I respect your positions.
Also, the trial (and the judge who handled it. May his soul not rest in so much peace) was not done in a way that would lead one to say fair. Some of Sebo's actions should certainly give cause for pause.
If he got a new trial it wouldn't be the end of the world as far as I am concerned, but I think quite a lot of people would be disappointed with the result the second time around as well.
La~Coincidental and Mel. I have to to confess to not visiting that site as much as I probably should, but for the most part my interactions with that brother has been pretty positive.
SickupandFed said...
Now, about that beckerhead. In the real entertainment world, his ass would have been off the air two years ago. He is a drain on revenue, He has few if any sponsors. At least those that will openly sponsor him. He's a nut and a dangerous one at that. The only way he could get people I know to watch his show is if he promised to eat one live.
Beck's audience dwindling? No sponsor's? I swear liberals do live in fantasy land. I am again forced to remind you that just because you wish it so does not make it a fact. If most people you know consist of 3 folks you chat with at the Barber shop, chris matthews, Sgt schultz and Rachel madcow, you need to get out more and talk to some more people, try real contributors to society who aren't ex cons. You would be suprised how many of these people are really out there despite the myths you hear and spread.
Becks viewership is triple, yes at least triple any other show. Here are ratings for March 2nd. The second higest ratings are for Hardball with Matthews with 673 versus Beck's of 1,966.
So now instead of hating a man because he tells the truth "with video in their own words" and using plain old rhetoric, try honestly debating something he has said. So far his record is right up there when it all comes out in the wash. Only in racist liberal land would cops align themselves with a COP KILLER. Beck is right, worse yet you don't even see how nuts you are because of your racism blindness.
If the antichrist comes as a black man, the devil wins in your eyes and you will start calling God names and try and say less people believe in God because of your three crackhead friends..and Matthews and Maddow...oh wait, liberals already say this.....
Net 5PM P2+ (000s) 25-54 (000s) 35-64 (000s)
FNC GLENN BECK 1,966
CNN SITUATION ROOM 599
MSNBC HARDBALL WITH C. MATTHEWS 673CNBC FAST MONEY 190
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/03/03/cable-news-ratings-for-wednesday-march-2-2011/84535
HLN SHOWBIZ TONIGHT 238
Field,
Your post is on point. Your closing line about the right beginning to fight, well they always fight which is why they have control of so many statehouses. After the 2008 Elctions The Democrats celebrated and The Right went to work on their message which got them back in power. The question is that now since people are once again seeing what they're really about will and are outraged the right lose power in a couple of years?
Wesley R said...
Field,
Your post is on point. Your closing line about the right beginning to fight, well they always fight which is why they have control of so many statehouses. After the 2008 Elctions The Democrats celebrated and The Right went to work on their message which got them back in power. The question is that now since people are once again seeing what they're really about will and are outraged the right lose power in a couple of years?
Actually the people are counting on the right to stop the sinking ship and so far they are doing exactly what the people demanded they do - stop spending and irresponsible decisions - the democrats dun ate the seed grain .
FN - Why does the truth and facts that you don't exactly prefer turn into a Fox statement or "hype" where you allege that everyone is stupid but you and your enlightened chosen ones? It's not that they see facts and think for themselves, rather they are hyped into it. Damn, thats almost like saying your a Tom if you don't agree with something you have deemed to be a Black agenda item. Can't you think and talk about facts without this talking point? Would not the facts stand alone on merit if true?
Anyway, nice poll you posted taken from "good education" I wonder if this has a union/teacher interest involved at all. Nah, I am sure this is a poll comprised of Joe Taxpayer. You know the guy who isn't a union worker and sees Mary Union Worker as someone awash with healthcare benefits, a virtually guaranteed job, and a secure, inflation-adjusted pension plan. Meanwhile, Joe Taxpayer faces near 10% unemployment, corporate layoffs and heavy expense reduction at his place of work, rising healthcare costs, and a retirement plan that is far from guaranteed. Oh yeah and Joe Taxpayer is the one who is paying for the salary, benefits, and retirement plan of Mary Union Worker and many public union workers, and even worse, he's paying Mary's union dues.
Wow, what a spin.
I found another interesting poll taken from 1,800 random voters
regarding the unions, funny enough an overwhelming majority of 63% believe the Union Members should be contributing more to their benefits. Only 15 percent believe that government workers are underpaid. A plurality of 42 percent believe they are overpaid.
Interesting - if there any Black Voters in this, they must be Toms right?
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/03/another-poll-suggests-liberals-have-struck-fools-gold-wisconsin?utm_source=feedburner+BeltwayConfidential&utm_medium=feed+Beltway+Confidential&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BeltwayConfidential+%28Beltway+Confidential%29feed&utm_content=feed&utm_term=feed#ixzz1FdScQ68ehttp://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/03/another-poll-suggests-liberals-have-struck-fools-gold-wisconsin?utm_source=feedburner+BeltwayConfidential&utm_medium=feed+Beltway+Confidential&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BeltwayConfidential+%28Beltway+Confidential%29feed&utm_content=feed&utm_term=feed
Members for this Report
Gerald A Reynolds-bush appointee (smoking gun) and associated with Center for Equal Opportunity (wingnut welfare financed by the Kochs) and was part of a group that thought lynched AfAms didn't deserve an apology from whites. As they all dead and sech.
Abigal Thernstrom-Manhattan Institute Fellow, signed on with Hans Spakovsky in an amicus brief. Spakovsky is noted for his less than stellar legal work, political hackery and failure to abide by US law. She also supported removing all Democrats from the United States Civil Rights Commission. Thernstrom was accused of fabricating quotes in an editorial she had written for The New Republic magazine, allegedly concocting fictitious positions and quotes and attributing them to Lani Guinier. Harvard Law School professor Randall Kennedy took issue with the Thernstrom's purported neutrality:
'The authors try to place themselves at the vital center of racial politics: "We quarrel with the left--its going-nowhere picture of black America and white racial attitudes," but "we also quarrel with the right--its see-no-evil view." In actuality, however, they unremittingly berate "the left" but rarely challenge the settled understandings of conservative or neoconservative readers.'
Thernstrom first attracted the attention of conservatives with a thundering denunciation of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act in Public Interest magazine in 1978. She "distinguished herself with her hostility toward any method of promoting black and minority representation".
Peter Kirsanow- bush appointee (smoking gun). 'He is an ardent foe of basic worker protections, including the minimum wage and basic worker protections, including the minimum wage and prevailing wage laws, and is a vehement opponent of affirmative action,'.
So..you have bush appointees writing a 'report' on how bad it was that the DOJ no longer gave bush appointees free rein to be jerkholes to AfAms and how terrible it was that a scam built by their friends and colleagues and paid for by the Kochs was thwarted. Essentially we are being informerated that a report on abortion written by paid Operation Rescue and Army O gawd folks is the same as peer-reviewed medical research.
Mold
Ummm...Becks numbers have trended downwards consistently. I know that means naught to some...but it is the kiss o' death in the biz. Losing advertisers..even when the network cuts rates...is a telling situation. In Real-World entertainment...Beck would be looking at 'retirement'.
Why is it that there is this fantasy that union members are not taxpayers? Was there a reduction in union taxes like the banksters received? Did the bush Regime eliminate the WorkTax like they did for the inheritance tax? All those benefits...were negotiated...and are in lieu of wages. So, the union folks took medical, vacation and retirement instead of wages. How, exactly, is that the epitome of eveel? Are not the pundits crying for such self-control and deferred gratification?
Oh, the Left did warn the sooper-geniuses of Boobsylvania not to trust the wingnuts. That the wingnuts would ship jobs overseas and reduce wages. It isn't like the wingnuts haven't been crying about the too-high wages of the Great Depression...in writing...and wailing about the eveel guvmint that thought more about people eating than about the Sacred Profit.
MOVE? The stinky people who were terrorizing their neighbours...doing stuff to the kids...and seemed to be a gang of mentally ill? That MOVE? the ones who declined the horror of indoor plumbing? The ones who were known welfare frauds?
The MSM portrayed them as far besser than they were. Still, kids should not die because their parents are doing stoopid...and worse.
I re-posted the bit on the Commission. Some were attempting to paint the bushmoles as objective and fair...and that is dishonest. It also reveals their Fifth Columnist work in destroying our government. Policy disagreements are part and parcel of politics...but joining government and Civil Service with the goal of undermining the work, if not not entirely eradicating it, is sleazy and deceitful. You and I pay for government that we chose, through our elected representatives..and they have unilaterally deciderated to deny us what we picked and to impose their will upon us.
If I pay a person, can I own them like a slave? Should they bend to my every whim? They should obviously make less than the drooling wingnut because it is gawds will that all public employees make less than the lowest skilled and least educated person who calls them-self a taxpayer. Christie and Walker both like this. Compare Joe NotPlumber who runs lines with no skill or training at $11/hour...and has failed to pay taxes....with Tessie Teacher who makes $42K/year and pays tax on all of it. Who pays school tax? Sales tax? Income tax? Who pays their dues?
Mold
i won't read anything from an examiner paper, or the black agenda report. bias, although opposite, is evident in both.
Washington Examiner...fair and balanced?
When Anschutz started the Examiner in its current format, he envisioned creating a conservative competitor to The Washington Post. According to Politico.com, "When it came to the editorial page, Anschutz’s instructions were explicit — he 'wanted nothing but conservative columns and conservative op-ed writers,' said one former employee.-anecdote.
The Examiner's editorial page is heavily conservative; it is headed by Mark Tapscott, with American Spectator senior editor Quin Hillyer serving as its associate editor. The paper's national political coverage, which also appears in Examiner papers in Baltimore and San Francisco, was previously headed by Bill Sammon, a former Washington Times reporter who has written several books praising George W. Bush. (Sammon is now the deputy managing editor for Fox News Channel's Washington bureau.[1]) Chris Stirewalt, who has been described as "a true conservative voice"[2], is the Examiner's political editor. Mary Katherine Ham, former managing editor of the conservative Townhall.com, briefly served as the Examiner's online editor for a few months in 2008 [3] before joining the Weekly Standard.[4] Matthew Sheffield, executive editor of the Media Research Center blog NewsBusters, is in charge of the Examiner's website.[5] Byron York, formerly of National Review, joined the paper in February 2009.(SourceWatch.org)
Can you say bias...even before the 'poll' was done? How about we just assume that the poll is crap and move on? After all, IntelligentCreationismDesign beleevers often wave such 'polls' around stating how their data shows that the people they asked harmoniously agree with dogma and the Glorious Dear Leader.
But then, it is to set up a false equivalence. Where real polling will be compared to this dreck...and silly people will equate the two. Like it was designed to reduce Science and valid data...because Facts have a pesky Liberal Bias.
Actually, Facts have no Bias. Liberals and Progressives just start with Facts and go from there.
Mold
Maria,
My favorite from the Examiner is that they 'subscribe' you without your permission. Adds to their numbers. Seems the owner had the same problem with his other companies.
Did a cursory of BAR...can you tell me where they are factually wrong? Examiner is close to inventing stuff...but the BAR only seems to slant based on data interpretation.
Your input would be most welcome.
Mold
Uh, Oh, field. You just wait till AB focuses her bug-eyes on your post!
You KNOW Mumia is her "Regal Black King Rebel Warrior", (I think he may have built some pyramids too. It's hard to keep up with her delusions.....maybe it was Hobama....I forget) who was set-up by COINTELPRO, Right?
Shame on you!
red bitch assnon:
u lost niggers are doomed because u have no eyes and lower IQs than roaches...
good riddance!
AB, despite Mumia being the darling of the white Philly burbs and the Second Coming in his own mind...he had a trial (more than one) and he keeps losing.
This is not one of those Southern cases where the AfAm had BillySue Chlamydia as counsel and the entire trial was out of public view. Mumia has had very competent lawyers and has had trials done in the public eye.
Shame he has to be penalized but we, the Society, don't think he gets a free pass for being the Great and Lordly Mumia.
Read his statements...he needs caged.
Mold
Bloodhound, Mumia thinkerates that COINTELPRO singled out some low-rent cabbie in Philly? They were snooping all Leftie orgs back in the day. Which gave them no ability to surveil the true danger, the wingnut orgs. Dave Niewart already wrote on this.
So, the FBI was to spend resources checking out the Glorious Daily Routine of His Majesty, cabbie Mumia. Who was there...why...exactly? Call me curious, but could not an educated AfAm find more stable, well-paying and enjoyable employ? I know some writers became cabbies...but they were Great Depression where there was huge wage arbitrage and some sought the gritty life to add to their works. Could it be that Mumi, god o' Philly was a putz? That he was there, like Randall Terry, because he couldn't be trusted/responsible/sane?
Before I shed one tear for a person who still thinkerates his actions are beyond oversight...I'll cry for the kids in Nikel Mines. Or the Miners killed for Massey Energy greed. Or the horrors in Africa. Or servicemen killed by a teeny weeny in Germany. Or Mike O'Pake. Or the lousy touron cheesesteaks in Philly.
Mold
Congratulations field! You did it! Ding, dong, the bitch is dead.
Told you she'd stroke-out over your post!
ab said
i am just way too disgusted to be here anymore.
bye.
9:20 AM
OMG IS THIS TRUE!
THANK YOU!! maybe people will actually be able to dialogue now without racial insults, name-calling, the word "nig"--which is offensive even from your mouth--please, go away, stay away...
mold, back to you soon.
mold wrote:
Why is it that there is this fantasy that union members are not taxpayers?
Union members get a huge tax break and its magnitude is a function of their healthcare plans.
There is NO private healthcare plan available to corporate or small-company workers that is offered virtually for FREE and offers the comprehensive coverage of a union plan.
Nothing beats the Solid Gold healthcare plan given to NY City teachers, firemen, sanitation workers and cops. Their plan covers EVERYTHING, and it covers everything for spouses and minor children. EVERYTHING.
Plans this generous in the private market are $25,000 a year.
Thus, at the back end -- in retirement, when the healthcare bills begin to rise, the union retiree gets HUGE benefits TAX FREE.
Thus, the tax rate on this asset of unlimited value is ZERO. But it's more than that. When you don't have to pay for something of great value, you are getting an outright gift, which goes far beyond a simple tax cut.
mellaneous--
Your third option is the one I subscribe to; we may be idealists, but isn't spiralling toward the ideal a righteous and realistic human endeavor here on this plane?
Well, that's how I've come up, anway.
fn:
what about the fact that the bullets in the corpse do not match mumia's gun???
and mumia's hands were never tested for gunpowder while he was being beaten by pigs who shot mumia?
what about the fact that the rookie cop who was slain was set to rat on his elder pigs???
what about ALL the witnesses who were paid/silenced/perjured/retracted?
...including mumia's own bro within the staged scene????...
i am in shock from this post field...truly.
mumia was framed.
the fbi stalked mumia via cointelpro since he was 15 yrs old and the prodigy editor of
the BPP's maverick periodical...
wake up pleez!
http://www.amazon.com/Framing-Mumia-Abu-Jamal-Patrick-OConnor/dp/1556527446/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1299247739&sr=8-1
_____
uts:
now i understand why u bash huey herein...
that is why white men call u niggers boys
and i call u hobama nazi niggers
revolution fodder
i am just way too disgusted to be here anymore.
bye.
Maria, if AB goes you'll end up picking your fights with someone else. You never see yourself as a problem.
Slappy, you want the taxpayers who agreed through collective bargaining to forego current wages and instead have a medical plan...to pay taxes on the plan...because you want them to pay taxes? There is no free...it is in lieu of wages. It 'costs' them. As it is a group plan...it is cheaper than that offered to a single employer of teen fast food workers. But, as stated...it would be even cheaper with a Universal.
Since your history begins with st reagan...I'll tell you about Blues. Non-profit and offered nearly the same health care benefits. Not Fwee Market...so they gone. Wonder who did that?
Your complaint is essentially that unions are undeserving because they chose better plans than you? That they bargained wages away for health care? And this is their problem, how?
Pouting that you too stoopid to seek Universal is not really a good choice. And, if you look across the pond...those eveel Europeans do offer such 'small business' plans. At far less cost. And more benefits.
You sound like one of the st reagan goobers who whined incessantly that eveel Unemployment Benefits were not taxed...and they should be...just because. Funny thing...that is double taxation. But since it is not the banksters or the Kochs or Paris Hilton...it am OK.
Oh, you want to see 'gold-plated' plans, look to the executive ones. They pay for Viagra, baldness cures, 'escorts', private rooms, special dining, trans surgeries....funny how you confuse a union plan with that of your Lords and Masters.
Mold
Mold said:
"You sound like one of the st reagan goobers who whined incessantly that eveel Unemployment Benefits were not taxed...and they should be...just because. Funny thing...that is double taxation."
I'm curious as to your opinion on Inheritance taxes. Now, if ever there was double taxation, that takes the cake, in my book.
Anonymous said...
Washington Examiner...fair and balanced?
When Anschutz started the Examiner in its current format, he envisioned creating a conservative competitor to The Washington Post.
Yeah, Yeah, another liberal tactic, when you can not discuss real facts try and discredit the source again without any evidence.
are you off your meds today you sound more incoherent then normal.
Also you sure seem to have viagra on your mind and talk about it a lot, do you get yours fro free funded by taxpayers? Let us know grandpa Mold.
'i am just way too disgusted to be here anymore.
bye.'kuntlicker
good. they say good riddence to phukkin nasty stankin rubbish! ya nasty garbage pile aint nobody gone miss ur stank ass no how kunthead buceta breaf banks!
get the phukk up outta here nucka get da phukk up outta here!
If Barry Obama and Bill O'Reilly can come together to raise money for charity,can't we {posters} all just get along?
talking bout u proud to be black but the first to call sumbody a nigger bytch get outta here and stay da phukk out kuntlickin banks!
phukk u spc aint gone happen and kuntlick can keep kuntlickin cuz dont nobody care nucka
Oh, you want to see 'gold-plated' plans, look to the executive ones. They pay for Viagra, baldness cures, 'escorts', private rooms, special dining, trans surgeries....funny how you confuse a union plan with that of your Lords and Masters.
You know this is you leeburuuuls? Where are the partiers on the taxpayer dolla? Where are the transsexuals ( I know you definitely know this one bein a granpa playin a granma)
Anonymous said...
phukk u spc aint gone happen and kuntlick can keep kuntlickin cuz dont nobody care nucka
Mold - go take the pill today, it's showin you aint all dere.
mold,
Because you are unaware of a certain economic reality, I will share it with you:
There's No Free Lunch. The bill always arrives. In recent years, when the bill arrived at GM, everyone affected by it prayed for a miracle. There was no miracle. But there was an intervention, a bailout.
Obama signed the bill that dropped the GM pension and retiree healthcare bills on the taxpayers, who are powerless in such situations.
You wrote:
Oh, you want to see 'gold-plated' plans, look to the executive ones.
I have. True, they are "gold plated." But gold-plated is not nearly as good as the standard government union plans that are nothing less than solid gold.
You wrote:
They (exexutive plans) pay for Viagra, baldness cures, 'escorts', private rooms, special dining, trans surgeries....
Viagra is cheap. Less than blood-pressure medication, and by the way, the union plans cover Viagra too.
Bladness cures, well, once again, minoxodil is cheap, and, in fact, is a blood pressure medication, and, once again, the union plans cover it.
Escorts? If you are suggesting that hookers are paid for by insurance plans, you have definitely spun off into your fantasy land. There may be cases of insurance fraud where funds were used to unapproved therapies. But no program authorizes payments for illegal services.
Yes, some executive plans pay for private rooms, as do the union plans.
But these days, patients are sent home from the hospital two days after many serious surgical procedures. Thus, no one stays in a private room for long.
Special dining? Again, for anyone in the hospital, that's a minor expense. And union plans pay for those dietary considerations.
funny how you confuse a union plan with that of your Lords and Masters
Apparently it's you who suffers from the confusion. By the way, the people getting those private plans kick in quite a bit, unlike union members who see no bills for premiums or co-pays or hospital stays.
My brother-in-law had prostate surgery a few weeks ago. Despite having decent coverage, the final bill that he must pay is about $7,000.
A teacher would have paid nothing. The taxpayers handle those bills.
He went into the operating room on a Thursday and he was sent home on Saturday, two days later.
As for Euope and those Universal plans, well, first, doctors earn much less, and Europeans cannot sue for millions. Moreover, they ration care.
Furthermore, in Europe there is no vast illegal population getting its healthcare free by clogging emergency rooms at city hospitals. And Europe has far more restrictive laws for citizenship. Thus, sneaking into France to have a baby does not get free healthcare for the family, as it does here.
LAC
"Glen Beck is making a fuss because, Mumia Abdul Jamal is an angry Black who is critical of America"
Exactly.
Beck specializes in Race baiting 101.
AB
"i am just way too disgusted to be here anymore.
bye"
Any bets AB will be back before lunch West Coast time?
AB is like Herpes. It ALWAYS comes back.
mold,
I overlooked the trans-sexual surgeries. That is a union offering and the only examples I can recall of people using that option are union people.
I cannot think of any corporate employees who changed genders with the help of corporate healthcare plans.
In any case, it doesn't matter, because the issue with healthcare is its Total Cost, not the cost of One Patient.
It's easy to see the cost of union plans in NY City. The budget is published, and the numbers tell us where all the tax revenue goes.
The leading causes of death are heart disease and cancer. Heart disease is largely preventable by eating right and exercising. There would be no lung cancer if no one smoked. Other cancers are also outcomes of harmful lifestyles. Meanwhile, alcohol is also a big contributor to early and expensive illnesses and deaths. Again, a lifestyle choice.
Nevertheless, union healthcare programs cover any and all health problems. And you know this is true.
uptownsteve said...
LAC
"Glen Beck is making a fuss because, Mumia Abdul Jamal is an angry Black who is critical of America"
Exactly.
Beck specializes in Race baiting 101.
Mirror meet Uptown Steve, Steve meet mirror, know thyself fool. One person telling the truth that you don't want to hear while you lie about it does not make him a race baiter, it makes you a racist fool.
Bloodhound said...
AB is like Herpes. It ALWAYS comes back.
We will take your word on that.
AB made sense but didn't fit the Tom agenda so you had to berate her until she couldn't take it anymore.
Assnon
You and your fellow rightwing cockroaches wouldn't know truth if it was dangling on your chin.
Whenever you're challenged for proof or evidence you change the subject, attack the questioner, or haul ass.
You're a clown and coward.
You don't even have the balls to post a forum name because your views are so laughable.
uptownsteve said...
Assnon
You and your fellow rightwing cockroaches wouldn't know truth if it was dangling on your chin.
Whenever you're challenged for proof or evidence you change the subject, attack the questioner, or haul ass.
You're a clown and coward.
You don't even have the balls to post a forum name because your views are so laughable.
Once again you dip into the realm of gay reference, you do like those globules dangling on your chin don't ya. Is that why you obsess with calling the majority of americans teabaggers? In the hope they might teabag you? Well listen here, it aint gonna happen. So stick with your swirly's
Your probably not bright enough to realize that you just accused others of literally what you do
Spin, change the subject, attack others, then with you you'll ask for proof that has already been provided.
Then when that is provided you can't handle it and run away.
After all these are things you must do to join the progressive party isn't it?
There is only one clown around here Bozo and again I say meet thyself in the mirror. As for coward - from you? HA now thats the funniest hypocritical statement I have heard all day.
Carry on.
Slappy, I did not know Viagra became cheap. I don't need it as I am not a ManDumpling. Baldness 'cures' are more than minoxodil...and many are not cheap or necessary. Compare that to the need of women for birth control. Even though you may beleeverate every one of your sperm is Sacred and Life and women are just ovens...we don't. And we do the cooking, cleaning, child care AND a full-time job.
Yes, executive plans pay for 'escorts'...and some have done so for years. Though, the accounting tab is different...it goes to the same place Diapers Vitter used.
Private rooms for medical necessity are covered by union plans. Private rooms for 'just because' are not...and are extra, out-of-pocket, expenses. Now, the executive plans do have this...and for years.
Special diets for medical reasons are union-covered. Le Bec-Fin only shows up in executive plans.
Was your brother-in-law the cabbie that David Brooks always uses? So, because you BIL has to pay 7K and a teahcer, according to you, pays nothing, it is the Great Eveel? What are you neglecting to tell us? That your BIL has co-pays? That BIL went outside the insurance coverage?
We in the US segregate MDs and NPs/PAs...Europe calls them all doctor. If you compare the wages, they are pretty much the same. Wonder why you repeat wingnut drivel instead of researching the rates. There is this Intertubes...
The US rations care. Everyone rations care. I suggest you review the term 'triage' and then look at US hospital policies. While you can beleeverate all you want that Sarey has more than MILF boots...providers have long pulled the plug on folks.
Europe does have many illegals. The false meme of sneaky brownies using ERs has been shown to be an outright lie. If you mean US citizens, lacking Universal, are going to ERs for care...then yes, they are. Just ask bush.
Ummm...Europeans have more problems with fat, stoopid 'Mericans flying into Europe for 'free' health care and then hoperating the Europeans will allow wingnuts to mooch. The Europeans bill...and get paid. Wonder where the money comes from?
Europeans can sue...and do...for millions. Who tells you this crap? For Dagon's Sake, there are English newspapers one can read. Or not.
Piddling yourself that the US could have Universal and you would have to, like, wait in line like commoners....and that you could be bumped from the queue by someone with greater need, but AfAm...tells me more about your Entitlement.
Mold
Slappy, the trans surgeries were to highlight the vast gulf between regular union plan coverage and the gold-plated executive ones. You attempted to malign unions as being trans. This speaks to your issues about gender and what is 'normal'. You claim not to know any corporate persons who have used such plans. Odd, they have been in the NYC papers.
Lung cancer would be reduced with smoking cessation. Not zero. Alcohol and obesity do affect health and M&M. Complaining that union plans cover health issues is odd. Isn't that what the unions gave up wages for? Or is it that they are slaves to you and should die in harness...and young...so you don't have to pay health costs, food, shelter, clothing and retirements?
Just so you are aware, being poor is a greater indicator for health issues than what you repeat from wingnut sources...
Mold
" Anonymous said...
AB made sense but didn't fit the Tom agenda so you had to berate her until she couldn't take it anymore."
11:52 AM
Damn. I think I'm gonna cry now.
Are you for real? She has her own blog, remember? Why don't you go over there & suck face with her and the one or other two losers that are her blogfans?
Watch this fleebagger get tackled by the po po.Chalk one up for the good guys.
http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2125748&spid
UTS, why are you feeding Trolls? The like the attention and will lick ManDumpling's Draft deferment to get some.
Mold
Anonymous said...
UTS, why are you feeding Trolls? The like the attention and will lick ManDumpling's Draft deferment to get some.
Mold
God there they go again, are all liberals obsessed? Do you do anything else but think about a mans penis? I know you as a cross dressing transgender man have a lot to think about on this Mold, so I do understand just a wee wittle bit or should I say bits???
You must look hilarious with your hitler mustachio in your flowery sun dress that looks like it was taken off of a circus tent along with size 15 high heel pumps. Mold in a really really deep voice...hey FELLA want a good time>>>
SPC, remarkably Breitbarted vid. Why the struggle? Why is an alleged police officer grappling with a Rep?
Ummm...TeaBaggers are paid flunkies who pretend to be concerned citizens. This looks like a duly elected Rep..being grabbed.
Oh...IOKIYAR.
Mold
@Mrs C. Amen Sister and thanks,I knew in fact I know I am not alone because I work with folks all the time who share the dream of a fair and just society that treats humans as if they count.
Just glad to see somebody step up on this thread and support me after all I have a pro human beings agenda:)
@Field fair enough on Mumia. I definitely am not privy to all the info in the case. I still don't think he should be put to death either way.
He has done a good job of drumming up support, it seems the experience has however raised his consciousness. I admit that I have attended rallies supporting him, so of course I hope he is innocent. But if not I hope he makes peace with what he did.
TeaBaggers are paid flunkies who pretend to be concerned citizens.
Silly crossdresser, the majority of americans are teaparty people (stop wishing for balls on your chin by saying they are teabaggers) The party who buses in union thugs and communists and employs homeless people to picket is the progressives, spin dont work no more moldbrain.
mold,
With respect to trans-sexual surgery making the news in the New York region, the most prominent case involved a New Jersey police-man, who chose to become a NJ police-woman. The taxpayers got his/her bill.
As for your other gibberish, inasmuch as every statement you made is easily refutable, consider yourself refuted. Sorry, but I'm not about to lay it all out for you, not that it would matter.
This year, here in NY State, the state is spending $53 BILLION for Medicaid. That works out to $13,000 per person. About 1,100 a month. That's a huge taxpayer bill, and it is double the national average for ALL healthcare. That should tell all you need to know about the efficiency and cost effectiveness of government healthcare.
That aside, the total healthcare bill is spent on doctors, hospitals, technicians, pharmaceuticals, equipment, etc, etc.
Healthcare insurance companies may earn profit margins of 10%. Therefore, if you want to eliminate them from the picture, you could, sort of, argue that total costs are pumped 10%.
If the national healthcare bill were 10% lower, would that change things in a big way? No.
Anyway, NY Medicaid expenses are more than enough evidence that government healthcare plans are make-work operations for idiots and healthcare people who know how to inflate -- up-coding -- bills sent to the state (taxpayers).
There is simply no way to stop people from gouging the government healthcare system. It's one thing to cry fraud when a doctor claims he performed brain surgery when the patient had only a headache. But "up-coding" is too subtle for that.
Anyway, some day you may visit the real world.
SPC, remarkably Breitbarted vid. Why the struggle? Why is an alleged police officer grappling with a Rep?
Ummm...TeaBaggers are paid flunkies who pretend to be concerned citizens. This looks like a duly elected Rep..being grabbed.
Oh...IOKIYAR.
Mold
Mold doesn't know the facts?Not the first time thats happen.
SPC, could you offer Fact? Or do you continue to wish we support your supposition?
Really, what Capital Officer would go after a Rep? Especially when they see stuff like Mark Foley and Larry Craig and Diapers Vitter?
I would like to know more...not less. Must be a crime in TeaBaggia.
Mold
Slappy, again with the snotty attitude toward a trans. What does your discomfort have to do with the issue of union plans?
Oh, just reviewed the NYC Teacher union benefits.
http://www.uft.org/health-benefits/more-health-benefits
No mention anywhere of trans surgeries. Now, why is that?
Medicaid.
NYT estimates 53 billion for NY Medicaid. Sure, why not?
Can you give the relevant statute for limiting insurers profit margins? I know the old Blues used 10%...but that was when they were 'non-profits'.
Universal cures your Medicaid problems. Up-coding becomes a real crime...with real penalties. Prison, not fines.
The 'real world' meme is an old one. Pretenderating that Liberals and Progressives aren't as realMerican as wingnuts. Keep hoping and beleeverating.
When one weeps crocodile tears about eveel teachers gettin' too much while excusing the banksters...it becomes obvious who lives in a fantasy land.
Mold
Anonymous said...
SPC, could you offer Fact?
Can't you read? Liberalism has really failed you.
SPC, now you are devolving into a Troll?
Why is Fact eluding you? Is it that Facts and wingnuts are polar opposites? Is it that Fact directly contravenes wingnut dogma?
Or is it that you are miffed that bushmoles were revealed as Fifth Columnists..and you hoped that their deception would remain?
Odd that you are gleeful that a duly elected WI Rep was grabbed. Is that your fantasy? To grab someone? Why does that thrill you? Is there a need within you to see others hurt? Especially those who disagree?
Mold
Anon 1:47, you are never funny. For some time now your white humor has been irritating.
Science is organized common sense where many a beautiful theory was killed by an ugly fact.
TH Huxley
from Pharyngula
Mold
"Could it be that Mumi, god o' Philly was a putz? That he was there, like Randall Terry, because he couldn't be trusted/responsible/sane?"
Mold, this is a little factoid most Lefties, Black leaders and journalists outside of Philly fail to realize - Mumia was written off as an unstable, angry loose cannon by most of the Philadelphia press corp, liberals and Black leaders. The further you move towards Philly, the fewer Mumia fans you're going to find. Hence why few Black people or liberals in Philly were all that shocked about the '81 shooting.
Like Field, I don't think anyone deserves the death penalty. But as others have pointed out, the man was tried twice and found guilty twice.
mold,
Leave it to you to come up with the wrong source for, well, everything.
As for healthcare benefits offered to NY City teachers and others, you can get a more accurate picture from the following:
http://nyc.gov/html/olr/downloads/pdf/healthb/full_spd.pdf
As for the profit margins of healthcare insurers, the real world facts are available to anyone who can read basic financial statements.
For you, maybe you should look at Yahoo Finance and check with a stockholder-owned health insurer.
As far as up-coding goes, the fact is -- it is such a fixture in billing that it is inescapable.
Up-coding is rarely outright fraud. Thus, auditors are going to find only the most blatant examples.
My brother-in-law, who happens to be a healthcare administrator, believes up-coding inflates our national healthcare bill by 20%.
Anyway, no one goes to jail for bumping up the bills a small amount. Only those who fabricate office visits and fabricate patients get serious attention from legal authorities. And even those characters face only temporary suspensions at first.
Meanwhile, you're out of your mind if you think Universal Healthcare solves anything with respect to the cost of medical expenses.
An amusing part of your fantasy is how it overlooks that trend of immigrant doctors coming here. We now import loads of doctors who, at first, will work for the prevailing compensation offered by Medicaid reimbursements.
Then they wise up and discover the art of up-coding.
The American doctors become heart surgeons who get huge fees for performing by-pass surgery, which they perform several times per week. Or they become cancer specialists.
How many Panthers were set up, framed, or just outright assassinated back in the day? Like I said, I would always give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who has already been targeted by law enforcement, prior to that person of interest being found shot and bleeding somewhere.
And the 11 people who died in the attack on MOVE, died for one reason only: property values.
Slappy, how does a health care administrator end up with out-of pocket?
I would submit that the actual profit margin for insurance companies is larger.
You might want to read the plan...it really does not differ from what I posted. But then, I am not mortified and mortally offended that teachers and other union folk can opt into a plan.
That amount of deranged jealousy I'll leave for others.
I can literally look up what I pay for US CareDenialforProfit and compare it to what my peer in France pays. They get more benefit for less money. What is so difficult to understand? I pay X for a very nice plan and my French peer pays 1/2X...or less. Their doctors make about what US doctors make. (Your glorious DenialCare companies don't just squeeze customers...they also squeeze docs). The waiting times are far less. I can get a host of drugs there that are banned in the US because they are not profitable enough to suit business plans.
Why would I pay Rolls prices for Yugo services? And why do you keep telling me that is a good idea? Oh the problems with Universal come from troo beleevers who feel the health care saps the citizenry of Noble Juices. So their wingnuts de-fund the system. Sort of telling you running water is a tool of Satan and breeds reliance of eveel gubmint...as they refuse to pay for wages, tools, pipes, and let everything 'get smaller'.
We import docs because the insurance company 'wages' are just above that of an RN. Why go to med school and get 200K+ debt (Euros go free) when one can go to B School and become a bankster? Less hours, vastly more pay, no lawsuits, and the Feds sit on their bushmole hands. The added benefit is that the imports place downward pressure on wages, much like the Mex influx has done to housekeeping, landscaping, child care and some factory work. Gee, wonder if it is deliberate.
Mold
By the way, the people getting those private plans kick in quite a bit, unlike union members who see no bills for premiums or co-pays or hospital stays.
My brother-in-law had prostate surgery a few weeks ago. Despite having decent coverage, the final bill that he must pay is about $7,000.
"A teacher would have paid nothing. The taxpayers handle those bills"
-------
The teacher thing is not the truth.
I seriously doubt that people in public sector unions have their premiums 100% paid for including co-pays, co-ins and have no deductible involved. But to give you the benefit of the doubt, I don't live in NYC and even then plans probably vary from county to county, city to city which leads me into your statement about your brother:
Here's the deal about insurance, depending on where you work at, whether private or public, each plan is different. With that said, it's coming down to contracts the ins co has with those companies.
An example: the hosp charges 50K for prostate surgery. The insurance company pays 80% and that payment most likely consists of $25k in actual monies paid to the hosp and 15K written off as the contractual - That 15K does not get paid by taxpayers and the 10K left over could be part of his deductible, co-pay or co-ins.
So in short, it's coming down to what your brothers company negotiated with the ins company or if he had different plans to choose from within the company, maybe he was too cheap to pay higher premiums and opted for a higher deductible. I don't blame him, lots of people have done that, including me. Then you get pissed off when you have to pay off that high deductible. I know, i know.
Also you got to realize that the more people in the pool the better the insurance is gonna be because the ins company wants that companies business. State employees - 10K people, your brothers company 300 people. Whose getting the better plan? Sure is shit not the company with 300 employees.
Ever shop at Sam's club for those items that you buy in bulk? You as the consumer come out ahead.
So if your brother is gonna bitch, he might want to take it up with his HR dept at his co or change his plans and pay more out of pocket, if he's paying privately then he needs to find more family members, if he's in business for himself well, hire more people.
Bottom line is - your brothers insurance probably sucks compared to state plans - as it should.
-----
You can fact check. I do back office work for a medical firm - for the last 8 yrs. I deal with this crap almost every day with people blaming the Dr's for what THEIR insurance doesn't pay.
LAC, thanks. I found it funny that all the FreeMumia people I met were whites from lily-white wealthy suburbs and...well..they knew the Iggles. But those from the city thought Mumia should be dead by now.
Ernesto, Panthers were political activists and seemed to die in curious manners. MOVE was a bunch of mental patients who wanted to make the world as stinky as they liked to be. Have to admit, I assumed they were back to Nature...until I smelled them. It takes deliberate measures to reek like that. No Third World person smells like soap and flowers they way we do...but MOVE was the kind of pong that stems from adding yuck.
Since my house is the major, if only, US form of wealth...why would I want crazy people who put feces on their bodies to lower my house values?
Mold
Rottnkid, thank you for the info. It was neat and described a complex issue quite well. Yes, I am envious;)
Mold
Mold Said...
Science is organized common sense where many a beautiful theory was killed by an ugly fact.
Your ugly, thats a fact.
forgot to add one more ting..If there are "repeat offenders" in your brothers company going to the Dr's alot then, guess what, next go 'round that plan will change to take account of those repeat offenders and it wont be pretty. Expensive surgeries (including your brother) is going to drive premiums up, so if his co workers want to kick his ass you'll know why. Got a girl who I work with and she stays at the Dr's for whatever reason..their were a couple of people who wanted to kick her ass..Just saying.
Oh...since when are teachers not taxpayers?
Is that like when AfAms were not fully human? Miscegenation and all?
Like teachers, firefighters, police, etc don't pay taxes (actually, they do...and about 33%) and there are these mystical beings who no one sees called TaxPayers...who drop money for great heights. And we never, ever associate with them as they are far, far to Holee.
Umm...in many rural parts of the US, the teachers are the only folks with full-time, steady jobs with benefits. They are the ones who pay taxes. How much did Bristol 'Two Babees' Palin pay? Why is there this ongoing attempt to pretend that teachers don't pay taxes? What is gained?
Mold
Wonder why beck and Christie are repeating the same idiotic spew that Governor Weasel does? They whine about the fat salaries and huge benefits and cushy lifestyle of public employees...but somehow forget that most police are still Public.
Is their base that barking stoopid? That they don't know the police and others bargain in good faith for contracts?
Mold
N_S says..
There would be no lung cancer if no one smoked.
---------
Not true. I can provide proof from actual pt's charts, from pt's who never lit up a cigarette, but that HIPAA (The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) thing will prolly get me in a little trouble.
Up-coding is rarely outright fraud. Thus, auditors are going to find only the most blatant examples.
My brother-in-law, who happens to be a healthcare administrator, believes up-coding inflates our national healthcare bill by 20%
----
Then he might want to talk to some freelance consultants who are actual Dr's that actually encourage "up-coding" to a certain degree depending on what type of procedures performed and WHERE they were performed at. For example if a primary care doc performs a procedure outside of what he is used to doing, he is going to charge for EVERYTHING, including the amount of steps he takes to see that pt BUT if a specialist, in that area, performs the same procedures and that's all he does, he won't "up-code" because that's what he does routinely.
There's too many nuances when dealing with coding and insurance and I promise you that you and your brother-in-law will NEVER be 100% correct on all fronts because guidelines are always changing. If you want proof of that, ask Maria.
rottnkid,
Lung cancer. Oh. Excuse me. Only 97% of all lung cancers are found in smokers.
I had a relative who died of lung cancer. She was never a smoker. However, I have no idea if she ever lived in a setting that included some harmful air. Anyway, the lung cancer nailed her when she was about 90.
The outliers are hardly relevant. If no one smoked lung cancer would almost disappear, and you know it. The fact that a few people develop that cancer without the assist of cigarettes is just bad luck.
mold, you wrote:
I would submit that the actual profit margin for insurance companies is larger.
Doesn't matter what you "submit". Insurance company profit margins are public information in almost every case. Instead of being a leaking gasbag, you should look at actual audited figures.
But reading an SEC document or even an earnings report is obviously beyond you.
Slappy, did I reveal something everyone already knew? That the claim of only 10% is...well..a nice story. As I posted...I used to be in government..back when lying to an agent got you a slab in 'Graterford'. Businessmen would lie to everyone else...but not me. Plus, I could read all their books.
As far as lung cancer...nice try. I suggest you go beyond the pretend and look at EPA documents on what is known to cause lung cancer. Or CDC. Or NIH. Or, if you feel adventurous...read the stuff from Europe. Strangely enough, the Koch boys have companies that spew tons of materials that are known problems in this area... Then why are they trying to shut the EPA down? Why is there an effort to blame all lung cancer on smoking...when the data clearly shows other causes?
Mold
rottnkid,
I know how insurance works. I also know who pays for it. When the insured is a NY City worker -- teacher, cop, fireman, sanitation worker, municipal administrator, etc -- the bill goes to the taxpayer.
Your explanation, while interesting and not news to me, has nothing to do with who pays the insurance premium. The bill get paid by taxpayers and the insured city worker pays virtually nothing.
One of the big problems with the city plan is the fact that its generosity encourages people to see their doctors for a headache. No reason is too minor for a visit.
Moreover, these plans give the same comprehensive coverage to the surviving spouse -- forever. Lifetime coverage.
rottnkid, you wrote:
There's too many nuances when dealing with coding and insurance and I promise you that you and your brother-in-law will NEVER be 100% correct on all fronts because guidelines are always changing.
It's a game. As with any game, when the rules change, the players modify their strategies. Any system can be outwitted.
Moreover, there is no way the world will divide into medical pros submitting inflated bills for their services AND an army of auditors scrutinizing each and every bill.
The cost of auditing would itself become a burden so large it would uselessly inflate total costs as much as the up-coding it's meant to police.
Mellaneous, "Society would act like all kids were valuable and are supported in raising children, it would act as a real village to raise children as if they live in a community of human beings with real interests in common."
First of all, the USA is not a village, it is the 'united' states which have a say so in how certain kids are raised and educated. That, Rev Mell, is up to the parents. Why should the states pay for parents who don't give a damn about their children's education? You liberal progressive black dems are always looking for someone to take responsibilities that you should be doing yourselves. You are off the charts.
Finally, you are suppose to be AB's friend, but I noticed you didn't say a word about how Field's post has driven her away. A friend would be encouraging her to stay on FN blog. Afterall, she has contributed a lot of information and 'color' to Mr. Field's blog.
How heartless can you and Field be?
You two prove that Blacks are not trustworthy.
The GOP will defend the sacred DOMA...thank goodness! It was a blessing that the Republicans took over the House. Thank God the American people voted them in.
Now the House will have a moral compass and protect the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman. God bless the GOP.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/john-boehner-doma-defense_n_831548.html
rottnkid,
Health insurance is one of the least profitable industries in America. 2010 profit margins for publicly-traded health insurers averaged around 4 percent. UNUM stood out with a net profit margin of 8.8%.
By comparison, cigarette companies have margins of 20%; railroads 15%; long-distance carriers 14%; and soft drink manufacturers 13%.
However, with a net after-tax margin of almost 25%, Microsoft is a standout.
Hence, if you think profit margins under 10% are evidence of rapacious corporate excess, then a whole lot of companie that earn moer than 10 cents on the dollar must make your head explode.
In a newly released report, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) estimates that, in fiscal year 2010, $48 billion in taxpayer money was squandered on fraudulent or improper Medicare claims. Meanwhile, the nation’s ten largest health insurance companies made combined profits of $12.7 billion in 2010 (according to Fortune 500). In other words, for every $1 made by the nation’s ten largest insurers, Medicare lost nearly $4. Good work? Yes?
This is shocking news for Americans who, for unknown reasons, continue to believe government-run health care is a model of efficiency and cost-effectiveness.
Last year, total outlays for Medicare were $509 billion; therefore, Medicare spent nearly 10 percent of its outlays on fraudulent or improper claims.
Actually, it may have been even worse. The GAO states the $48 billion in taxpayer money that went down the drain doesn’t even represent all of Medicare's lost revenue. The figure does not include improper payments in its Part D prescription drug benefit. Why? Because the agency has not yet estimated the damage.
no_slappz said...
rottnkid,
I know how insurance works. I also know who pays for it. When the insured is a NY City worker -- teacher, cop, fireman, sanitation worker, municipal administrator, etc -- the bill goes to the taxpayer
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Again, I don't know what the details are concerning NY so I can't speak on that but in VA you best believe public workers are paying some sort of premium out of pocket and yeah the tax payer is footing some of the bill just like a private company would do. My last job, you had 2 choices: Either you pay a small premium and the company picks up the rest or you can opt out of the company ins plan and they pay YOU what the portion they pay would normally contribute to your insurance.. your paychecks were nicer but your insurance was probably garbage..again it depends on what state your in. In VA BCBS covers most of the state BUT in a portion near DC, Maryland based BCBS covers a small area. In my opinion no matter where you live, go, work in whatever state, your gonna get screwed by the insurance companies. So we have to agree to disagree.
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