Tuesday, December 23, 2008

See what you started Obama?


I hate to beat a dead horse, but apparently this horse still has some riding left in it.


Now comes word that the creepy one is joining forces with some members of Civil Rights Inc. And he will be giving the key note address at the MLK, Jr. Annual Commemorative Service at Ebeneezer Baptist Church of all places. Brother Martin's body is no longer resting peacefully in Georgia; it is now in California, thanks to all the rolling and turning over that poor Martin has been doing in his grave.


"Obama’s invitation opened the door for positive communication between the conservative movement and the civil rights movement. " Really? Does the term oil and water mean anything to anyone? Talk about strange bed fellows. I am sorry, call me stubborn, but there are certain groups in this country --the religious right/ christian conservatives being one of them-- that I will never see eye to eye with. And I am all for civil rights, which is exactly why we can't come together for anything. They are not. Civil rights means civil rights for all citizens, not just the ones who happen to fit into their strict Christian dogmas and who obey Christian laws as they interpret them. But field, by refusing to reach a common ground with them, aren't you guilty of doing the exact same thing that they are? Yes I am. It's called taking a principled position on an issue and not wavering, even if it means meeting a popular preacher halfway. If you believe in human rights and civil rights for all A-merry-cans without compromise, you cannot "open the door" for communication with bigots.


"I think this is nothing but a wonderful statement about the progress that makes up our lives... Rick Warren – someone many would consider in the southern Baptist tradition – has embraced diversity. We can come together in the common love of Christ in contrast to our social opinion...” ~Reverend Mark Whitlock~~


Progress? Sorry Rev. Creepy Rick has NOT embraced diversity, and you have been hoodwinked if you think he has.


"Hopefully individuals passionately expressing opinions from the left and the right will recognize that both of us have shown a commitment to model civility in America,''


Rick, this isn't a left right issue, it's a moral one. And as a self professed man of faith, you should understand that.

133 comments:

Anonymous said...

What makes him creepy? Is anyone and everyone who quotes scripture that calls homosexuality a sin creepy?

Wouldn't that make God creepy also?

Anonymous said...

he smiles a lot, too much.

browne said...

"What makes him creepy? Is anyone and everyone who quotes scripture that calls homosexuality a sin creepy?

Wouldn't that make God creepy also?" Creepy Anonymous

Yes if God said this he or she would be creepy.

People who comment on blogs anonymously are also very creepy.

Moving on, I don't understand this, but yet I do understand this. Obama is a moderate and moderates do this kind of bs. You know sell their values down the river in order to get some kind of odd concession.

Church and state need to be in two different boxes.

Browne

Anonymous said...

And in light of the fact that Browne is not your first name, that also would make you creepy, wouldn't it?

You just called God creepy. That's called blaspheme and a day will come will you will be sorry.

Kriss said...

The fact is, you're not going to get a truly religious bible thumper to agree on gay marriage. It's not going to happen. Personally, I think the whole argument is more religious absurdity but that's my opinion. When compared to others on the religious right, Rick Warren is a saint. The claim that he compared being gay to pedophilia were wildly blown out of proportion and when you compare his views he's more in line with Obama (Who DOES NOT SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE) than say a Pat Robertson, John Hagee or any of the really true bigots. Supporters of Proposition 8 were dead wrong. I think the majority of that came from a lack of understanding the issue. I can live with Obama reaching across the aisle to a Rick Warren as a opposed to a John Hagee. Us regular folk have the wonderful choice of ignoring people we don't like or don't agree with. When you're President, you don't get that option (unless you want to mimic the last 8 years).

RisingTide said...

GOD did not say that homosexuality is a sin! He said that idolatry was a sin, and homosexuality as practiced in ancient israel was an idolatrous practice.
Nowadays, he'd say something about those posters on teenagers' walls.
But everybody loves to hate on teh gay.
Is Jesus laughing? I hope that someone is getting some enjoyment out of PORK EATING Christians who can't follow their savior's faith, hypocritically citing the ONE scrap of the Torah that they MUST believe in.
Really.
Not to bitch about christianity, cause it's a good faith, like all the OTHER good faiths, but to bitch about the sudden bouts of HYPOCRISY that Conservatives get.
You know, like the ones they had about slavery, which is also mentioned approvingly in the Torah.

RisingTide said...

by the way, I quoted some of this on a few other sites. It's really that good, I felt it deserved more exposure.
;-)

Anonymous said...

True story...I was at a cookout years ago in Charlotte, NC. There was a fat hillbilly blubbering on about how them 'evil queerzs' we 'gettin' married in 'Mazzachewzitts' and how it said right there in the book of Leviticus that 'homo-sex' was sin!

A young--and rather obviously--Jewish man was among the attendees and he interrupted the redneck just as he was slabberin' about half a gallon of ketchup on his cheeseburger that Letviticus actually called gay sex an 'abomination,' but that earlier it also said in leviticus that 'boiling a calf in its mother's milk'--i.e. don't mix meat and dairy--was equally an abomination and perhaps he should put the cheeseburger down if he were such a student of Levitical law.

The redneck took a sloppy, disdainful bite out of the burger and said, "what the hell do you know about it? You must be one of them fags!"

The Jewish dude remarkably kep his composure and then smiled and said, "Well, actually, I'm from the same group of people that actually wrote Leviticus and I'm simply tired of white trash like you claiming it as your own and not even reading the whole goddmaned thing! Now say one more word about the queers, Cletus, and this this little Jew 'queer' is gonna shove that cheeseburger right up your in-bred, all-Jesus-lovin asshole!"

The hillbilly walked away glassy eyed and gentle golf applause arose from many, including myself, who observed it!

Antonio said...

I don't think Obama 'started' the friendliness between conservatives and civil rights activists, although his actions might encourage it. Religious conservatives gained considerable ground with socially conservative black folks by reaching out to black pastors. I imagine Warren's work on poverty and HIV/AIDS gained a lot of respect because he found 'common ground' with black pastors there.

I'm upset by the choice of Rick Warren (as I wrote on my blog), but it might actually help Obama some. We'll see.

Anonymous said...

This is a bit off subject. But Field...have you heard this crazy comment on radio by that coon Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson. He is thanking white people for slavery and taking us out of Africa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYQa5Lj1sSA&eurl=http://bossip.com/&feature=player_embedded

field negro said...

Anon. Jesse Lee never ceases to amaze me. The man is that far out. Honestly, I don't think he even beieves half of the crap that he says.

Anon. 11:53AM, that story was too funny. I am still LMAO.

"Wouldn't that make God creepy also?"

Yes it would.

tjwash said...

Some anonymous shithead...

wouldn't that make god creepy?

Heh...really. Homosexuals are creepy. God really said that?

To you?

Damn...every time god says something, someone else hears it and I never get too. I must always be in the shower or taking a dump when he's telling everyone what he thinks...

Sharon from WI said...

Is Dr. King's body literally now interred in California? If so, why?

Anonymous said...

@ Field -

Between Jesse Peterson and Lashawn Barber - people of color wouldn't exist if we left it up to them. They will stoop to any level to put their self-hating rhetoric on display just to get noticed. Keep bringing the truth Field...and have a great holiday!

Sharon from WI said...

I recall King's Letter from Birmingham Jail. It was conservative, right wing ministers he chastised for complaining about the marching and their advice that black folk should be patient and wait for change.

field negro said...

No Sharon... I think it's still in Georgia. I was just trying to make a point. Don't worry, you will get used to me.

LOL@ tjwash.

classical one said...

Wouldn't that make God creepy also?

Good point, the Bible is supposedly the word of God (Christian God anyway) and homosexuality is explicitly not condoned.

18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Now, don't jump down my throat, I'm not a believer, but it's hard to dismiss that verse if you believe in the Bible as word of God.

Sharon from WI said...

I wasn’t quite sure whether you were joking or not, given the King family’s propensity to make bank on just about anything associated with their late father.

Michael Eric Dyson mentions their avarice in his book, I May Not Get There With You.

For instance, they sold his image a few years ago to some communications company; they sued the media for use of historic footage on King and went after documentary direct Henry Hampton for Coretta Scott King’s interview in Eyes on the Prize..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6914918/%5Benter%20URL%5D

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3812/is_/ai_n9053452

So, that's the reason for my Oh no, they sent his body to California for some reason reaction.

Tom0063 said...

The pressure against the bigot is working (pressure, not dialogue, is the only thing a bigot understands)

1. He told the duped Melissa Etheridge (in private, not on TV) about his regret for his slurs. She fell for it because he had buttered her up by starting the conversation by saying that he was a "fan" who had "all her albums". She fell for it hook line and sinker, celebrity-to-celebrity.

2. He has already taken the "gay ban for church membership" policy off his website after Rachel Maddow exposed him.

Homophobia, hard AND sweet, smiley, sickly, CREEPY "I just want to save your soul" soft must be made socially unacceptable

We LGBT people desperately need the support and guidance of our black brothers and sisters, gay and straight, to teach us how to get through this mess.

For my part, I haven't read King since college, and I'm buying some of his books today and starting up reading it as soon as I finish Alinsky.

Tom0063 said...

BTW - my anguish over this is deep, having worked hundreds of hours and given thousands of dollars to Obama.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

The problem is, Rev. Rick can't take the heat and spotlight being thrown on his fat ass regarding his position on homosexuality and gay rights. He's trying to fence-straddle and have it both ways, without taking a firm position.

If Saddleback doesn't want gays in their church, why take down the statement off the website? Because he's afraid Obama will rescind that invitation and give it to another preacher more gay-friendly. Warren wants to be connected with the White House - don't be fooled.

While I couldn't stand Jerry Falwell or James Dobson, I have to admit that their stances on gay rights and homosexuality has not changed and they have not attempted to sugar-coat or soft pedal because of wanting to be in DC's Beltway Circles, because they found enough in-the-closet homophobes like Lindsay Graham, Larry Craig, Charlie Crist and Mark Foley to support their homophobic policies.

Warren with either have to shyt or get off the pot, and if he shyts, Obama may have to rescind that invitation to pray over his ass at the inauguration. Period.

earlgrey said...

I have informed my family that if any point I start saying that I am hearing a disembodied voice telling me how to do things and that I think it can hear my thoughts and do things for me they are supposed to take the only rational action and that is to have me institutionalized.

Having a belief that something can read your every thought, watches you constantly to make sure you are doing the "right" thing, and has the ability to randomly punish you based on a arbitrary interpretation of some long ago written text....that is creepy.

FN pricipled people are often labeled radicals. But radicals are often needed. It is the same thing as one persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist. Only history (and yes I know the victors write it) can be the proper judge.

BuelahMan said...

You just called God creepy. That's called blaspheme and a day will come will you will be sorry.

Booga Booga

First, God has never quoted Scripture (cart before horse), unless you suggest Jesus was God when He quoted it. Talk about splitting hairs.

I don't trust anyone who is anonymous AND uses fear techniques (especially when those techniques are so infantile).

To field's post:

Obama has done nothing more than suck up to the religious right... to hell with those that brought him to the dance.

Reaching across this aisle is akin to me doing a reach around. Never have, never will (and I don't give a damn what anyone else does). Obama is either full of shit or trying to show us how gullibly stupid he is regarding trying to reach out to the religious right. My bet? Full of shit.

Rick Warren is a wolf in sheep's clothing, as are the majority of religious leaders making a living off of preaching... prostitutes of religion.

He cannot be trusted.

cinco said...

@tjwash...

lol

Adam said...

Field,

For many reasons, Warren takes stand on the traditional view of Marriage as being one man and one woman. I do not believe that makes him a bigot.

Where do you draw the line between differing with someone (or group of people) socially and ideologically and being a bigot?

How is that we have reached a place where "homophobia" is equated with political or social disagreement.

Anonymous said...

blacks got their boy in the house, now all the booty pirates will have to move to the back of the bus.....LMFAO

Christopher said...

Obama is one tone deaf son-of-a-bitch.

I am certain he won't uninvite fat pig Warren from the festivities.

It's a shame, really. Obama will limp into his first term having angered the LGBT community, the Netroots, pro-choice women and progressives.

He has revealed himself to be not so much as a transformational figure but just another politician who will suck up to anyone he thinks might earn him a few thousand votes.

The PUMA loons are laughing at us now. Chants of "You guys got who you deserve," can be heard across the blogoshere.

Black Diaspora said...

"[Obama]...just another politician who will suck up to anyone he thinks might earn him a few thousand votes."

Christopher, I understand your anger and your assessment of Obama's actions of late.

Yet, I don't think his invitation to Warren to give the invocation at his inaugural was for the purpose of garnering votes.

He did a pretty good job of that on his own.

Although I disagree vehemently with Obama's decision, I believe that he did it as a gesture to heal the partisan wounds that were opened during the election.

It was nothing more sinister than that. But, for some reason, I don't think you're going to hear me.

Zimbel said...

@Adam-

When their actions cause or incite suffering, hardship, hatred and violence.

Warren has done a lot more against gays, lesbians, and bisexuals than just tried to deny gays and lesbians the right to marry.

@classical one-

One can easily argue that 18:22 is a continuation of 18:21, and therefore is forbidding a specific religious practice of the worship of Molech. Even worse, 18:22 "V'et zachar lo tishkav mishk'vey eeshah toeyvah hee." isn't complete, so it's difficult to interpret accurately even in Hebrew (never mind a bad English translation). In any case, I wonder if this is part of the reason that hatred against gay males seems to tend to be stronger (at least in terms of hate crime statistics) than hatred against lesbian females - as most English translations tend to support your interpretation of the verse.

Adam said...

Field & Friends,

I am not sure how many of you know that Warren and Obama are (and have been) good friends and for a loooong time. Warren may very well be Obama's spiritual advisor while he is in office.

With all the emphasis on Obama's "associations" in the media - one thing that was left out was his "conservative" associations...Rick Warren, Ray LaHood (our new Secretary of Transportation), and there will be other conservatives who will come out of the woodwork during Obama's time in office.

Many do not realize that Rev. Bill Hybels (who is by all political measures a "conservative") of Willow Creek Church near Chicago was President Clinton's spiritual advisor for several years.

Browne Molyneux said...

"And in light of the fact that Browne is not your first name, that also would make you creepy, wouldn't it?

You just called God creepy. That's called blaspheme and a day will come will you will be sorry." Anon 11:19am

Browne is my first name. I don't believe in your god, so get over it.

Adam said...

Zimbel:

You stated: "When their actions cause or incite suffering, hardship, hatred and violence."


I see absolutely nothing in Warren's comments, his church's literature, or the books he has authored that teach, encourage or incite any of that.

brohammas said...

Saying religious conservatives are all bigots, or not interested in civil rights, is not unlike saying black people are all criminals.

Now while religious bigots and black criminals both exist and are both over represented on TV, to say that all are as depicted is unfair.

many, MANY, very religious and very conservative (both socially and fiscally) religious people are not only good people, but black as well.

It seems left vs. right is becoming, or has become, the new black v. white. Both sides blame the other while painting with broad, sweaping strokes.

Ernesto said...

anon 11:19 am,
God just spoke to me. He said He would never appoint an ignorant asshole like you to be his internet spokesperson.

So there!

joy316 said...

Do not be decieved, this man is no more "Christian" than Judas. His program starting with the Purpose Driven Church is a secular marketing strategy designed to build wealth. Remember, Jesus warned us of wolves in sheep's clothing. He also warned us of false teachers and hypocrites. This is the problem. To those uneducated in the Scriptures, he appears real!!! He is not!! Do not ever assume that all those who cry "Lord, Lord, are members of the Kingdom of God.

rainywalker said...

Field,
He's talking with a forked tongue. Says one thing and changes his web-site to be in the now with current events. He's a bigot and I still think Obama was wrong on this one.

Ernesto said...

Warren's church is guilty of the type of discrimination that is illegal for the government to do.

Obama has horse-traded gay votes for evangelical votes. It's a risky move and I think it will backfire. In 2012, the gay voters might just stay home. The evangelicals will vote. And they will vote Republican like they always do.

Peronally, I had enough of this "Third Way" triangulating bullshit with Clinton. It set us back 30 years in economic terms. Obama seems to be willing to set the clock back on social issues in the same way. Sad!

Adam said...

Ernesto,

You stated: "Warren's church is guilty of the type of discrimination that is illegal for the government to do."

What exactly do you mean? Do you mean that they refused to employ someone who is openly homosexual?

Non-profit organizations have the right not to hire someone whose belief system differs from theirs.

joy316 said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abhZ5fG4jzI

An interesting video on Rick et al.

alicia banks said...

thank you for posting the truth about warren!!!

he is a psycho rabid vulgar gaybasher to the extreme.

this has nothing to do with gay marriage. if it did, then millions of us gays would never have voted for obama!!!

warren is to gays who david duke is to blacks...a supremely evil enemy...

there is no excuse for this betrayal!!!..NONE!!!

shame on obama!

obama knows that this is a horrid betrayal...

as obama has now laid with a rabid dog...obama has fatal fleas!!!

shame!!!
alicia banks
OUTLOOK
http://aliciabanks.blogspot.com

Ernesto said...

Adam, you cannot be gay and be a member of his church. The government cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation. Sorry if the way I worded that was confusing.

Christopher said...

Let's remember three things about the gluttonous Rick Warren:

Rick Warren is antigay, pro-life and pro-assassination.

Number One:

Rick Warren is vehemently homophobic. Comparing gay relationships to incest and pedophilia. Warren's Saddleback Church hosts 12 Step Programs designed to "cure" gay men and lesbians of their attraction to members of their own gender. Warren turned his church over to the cult of Mormonism to help drum up support to pass Prop 8.

Number Two:

Rick Warren is pro-life. Warren is on-record saying he supports a Constitutional Amendment to reverse Roe and outlaw abortion in all 50 states. Warrens supports criminalizing doctors who perform abortions.

Number Three:

Rick Warren visited and praised the uber-patron saint of state sponsored Middle East terrorism, Syria and even called the nation a "moderate state." But remarkably, he said one Sunday morning that the USA should reserve the right to assassinate Iran's Ahmadinejad.

Reaching out to Rick Warren does absolutely nothing to heal partisan divides. If anything, reaching out to Warren angers the LGBT community, the Netroots and pro-choice women. The religious right who didn't vote for Obama isn't going to see this stunt as extending his hand. They already hold Warren in suspect because of his new age beliefs.

Bottomline: Obama fucked up Big Time on this one and the controversy isn't going away anytime soon.

Anonymous said...

First hand information on the good Rev. Mark Whitlock: As a former A.M.E, living in the S. California area, I've been informed and believe that Mr. Whitlock has a fondness for viewing pornorgraphy at church and has had multiple marital affairs. That said, anything he has to say on the issue should be received with that in mind. Truth is a defense to slander and I have no fear of being sued by Mr. Whitlock.

The Angry Independent said...

Field,

Stop scaring folks with the 'MLK has moved' comments. lol

You are going to have folks calling family members, radio stations, and everywhere else tomorrow...looking for confirmation.

On this latest move.... it seems to be all theater. I guess it wouldn't be such a bad thing for White Conservatives to connect with "Black Churches". But I just think they chose the wrong date for one thing.

Secondly... its a superficial connection between big money churches and big money preachers. The mega churches are businesses... period!

Related topic:

Did you read about Obama's latest endorsement/seal of approval? It came from none other than Pat Robertson.

First it was Rove... then Cheney... Now old Pat.

On the positive side... it's good to quiet these people early...because their positive comments now will weaken arguments against Obama later on. But there's something strange about Obama getting these kinds of endorsements. Bittersweet is a good word for it.

brohammas said...

"turned his church over to the cult of Mormonism"???
So are you calling him a Mormon now?
a cult? so has this declined to simple name calling?

Anonymous said...

THANK you field for allowing me to post on your website, I say that because, last week I made a comment on a website, and the comment was in defense of BARACK OBAMA, this was a AFRICAN AMERICAN website, but, I saw this BLOGGER, and once again she was being used as BAIT by SEAN HANNITY, and when COLME'S would defend BARACK, on the subject matter, she would chop him up, so I commented on her website, and trust me, I was CHOPPED up as well, so can someone tell me why she would allow WHITE REPUBLICAN'S to comment, and smear BARACK to no end, and yet write a comment to me and call me such name's as IGNORANT, RACIST, BIGOT, and UNEDUCATED, and trust me I am not any of those thing's, but, I am AWARE, ALERT, AND INFORMED, FIELD can you tell me where all of these so called AFRICAN AMERICAN'S come from? we all have our own personal opinion, but come on people, why would any BLACK MAN or WOMAN allow SEAN HANNITY to use them as BAIT to ASSIST in his SMEAR ATTACK'S on BARACK OBAMA? and beside's BARACK watch's FOX NEW'S, and trust me their is no way, his feeling's are not hurt, FIELD I know, I am off TOPIC, but, I need you to reply. and yes, people I will turn to FOX NEW'S at six o'clock to see if there will be any H>NEGRO'S ON THE SHOW, and without a doubt, they show up, ready to be used as BAIT!

Anonymous said...

Rev. Wright, meet Rev. Warren. God really did damn America if these are the people Obama is pal-ing around with.

Rater said...

It's not whether Jesse Lee Peterson believes half the stuff he says. His disposition is offensive.

Tom0063 said...

I've come to the conclusion that this has nothing to do either with Obama's "Ignorance" "lack of feeling" or homophobia.

It was a purely cynical move to pander to the right and stupify them by making a left interest group squeal.

Nothing satisfies so much as watching the opponent scream, and we certainly fulfilled our part.

That doesn't meant I have any hope that this was a "symbolic defeat paving the way to substantive victory." I am urgently looking for examples of this in the African-American civil rights struggle, and hope maybe someone here can help, if there were such.

The group was of course the gays, because we are the most despised and smallest (though they underestimated the degree to which our allies now sympathize with us).

The main point is not just teh gayz. If they can do this to us, they can offer up other base interests too.

I can't wait to see what "affordable healthcare for all" comes out looking like.

Tom0063 said...

It seems to me that we must force the myth that this was a "symbolic defeat paving the way for substantive victory."

Whether Obama wants that or not.

We must praise his sly and inscrutable wisdom in formulating such a path.

(OK, I've spent too long in Russia, aka Asian mode of governance, I'll admit it, but maybe it wasn't all for naught.)

Anonymous said...

Great blog for Rick Warren bashing, atheism, criticizing Obama, and putting filthy godless words in God's mouth.

Nothing but REAL good wholesome secular stuff. It's a good thing there is no God and afterlife... huh?

Tom0063 said...

You're right, wise righteous one.

We fags should shut the fuck up, and head for the closets, for our own safety.

After I read today that Pat Robinson is "Remarkably Pleased" with Obama, I understood that resistance is now futile, and may soon be dangerous.

As a Democratic party official, it probably already is, for me.

Anonymous said...

homosexuality is a sin.it's unnatural, unrighteous, against the order of God because he made a man & a woman to reproduce.

homosexuality it's a sin.

homosexuality it's a sin.

homosexuality it's a sin.

Christopher said...

"turned his church over to the cult of Mormonism"???
So are you calling him a Mormon now?
a cult? so has this declined to simple name calling?


Do you read at a 4th grade level, brohammas?

I posted that Rick Warren turned his Saddleback Church over to the Mormons during the battle over California's Prop 8.

Obama's pal, Rick Warren, personally invited numerous leaders of the LDS Church to come speak to Warren's flock and make their case that they believe gay marriage is wrong and people should vote for it.

Warren also made several "Pro" Prop 8 PSAs. They ran in the largest California media markets.

Tom0063 said...

So anonymous decided to come completely out of the closet as a homophobe.

See. They are mightily emboldened.

brohammas said...

I read at whatever level you write, though I admit I have the spelling skills of a 3rd grader.

By your comment I see you obviously missed the pointof my post.

Sharon from WI said...

The problem with Prop 8's success is there was not enough outreach to inform voters.

People were told that ministers would have to marry gay couples or face legal sanctions.

This, of course, would not have been true. It's not true now.

Priests routinely will decline to marry divorced couples.

Rabbis will decline to marry people who are not both Jewish.

Even Reform rabbis will only do so with the stipulation that the children are raised Jewish. And Catholic priests do likewise when one of the couple is a non-Catholic.

chenna said...

Thank you field! Someone gets it!

Shady_Grady said...

"That doesn't meant I have any hope that this was a "symbolic defeat paving the way to substantive victory." I am urgently looking for examples of this in the African-American civil rights struggle, and hope maybe someone here can help, if there were such"

There's too many to list. Few politicians are ever going to get 100% ratings from any interest group. Politics is often about what's possible, not just what's right.

LBJ used racial slurs freely even as he leaned on senators for Civil Rights legislation. Nixon expanded affirmative action for Blacks while privately holding retrograde views. Jimmy Carter said there was nothing wrong with people trying to maintain "ethnic purity" in their neighborhoods while at the same time saying he supported open housing laws. Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil Rights act and as President did little to advance Civil Rights legislation but he also hired more Blacks in federal positions than any President had previously done and spoke out (albeit in a lukewarm manner) for Civil rights.

Obama has said that he supports repeal of the federal DOMA and the extension of federal rights and benefits to same sex couples. What's more important to progressives/gay community activists, seeking to hold Obama to those campaign promises and building a coalition to make that happen or going berserk over Warren mumbling an invocation?

As mentioned Obama does not currently support gay marriage. He's made this clear many a time. So by that light, the Warren invitation shouldn't be that surprising.

Sharon from WI said...

@Shady Gray

I think the whole Warren affair is much ado about nothing.

Who cares that he is going to "mumble a few words" during the Inauguration?

He's certainly not going to be in any position to legislate any laws for or against gay rights.

What's important, as you stated, is what Obama's position is regarding the gay community.

grinder said...

Anon 6:42 a.m., come on. There are all kinds of prohibitions in the Bible. Do you pay attention to the one against eating shellfish? Are disobedient children really supposed to be killed? And how about that adultery, anyway?

Let's face it, this isn't about "the word of God," it's about what you find appetizing, and what you don't. No one's requiring you to like gay people or appreciate them, although it would be nice if people tried to see the good. But gay people ought to have the same rights as anyone else.

Yeah, and Merry Christmas.

As for the Rick Warren controversy, I'm of two minds. Part of me would minimize it, but part of me is attuned to symbolism and signals. Obama intended to send a message with that decision, and frankly I'm not too happy with it. If he'll counterbalancce that message with action on behalf of gay people, I'll be satisfied. As of yet I'm not seeing any sign of it, but it's very early in the game.

This leads into a broader point, which is that Obama has been spending all of his time moving to the right. Let's hope he doesn't forget the "C" word that he ran on.

susan said...

what's interesting in this whole thing is that barack obama has two MEN blessing and no sister is offering WORD. and we know that women can preach some WORD that shakes the soul and conscience and set a tone for the good angels. no one is standing up and expressing this kind of outrage.

i don't hear boo about how rick warren also has stuff on his website about women needing to be subservient and follow the lead of men.

just sayin. . . y'all could expand your talk in a stand up way and show queer AND straight women some love and support too.

Anonymous said...

First let me say that I am a MINISTER of GOD, I did not call myself, but, God did, and I PRAISE him for it, now many people are angry at PASTOR RICK WARREN, but, what you fail to understand is that, he is speaking what is written in the BIBLE, BASIC INSTRUCTION'S BEFORE LEAVING EARTH. The BIBLE is a SCRIPT for MAN to live by, so MILLION'S of people chose to receive what is written in the BIBLE.

GOD gave MAN rule over the earth, he gave him written instruction's as far as how to implement order on the earth, so therefore the PHYSICAL MAN is not left empty handed, as far as assistance, MAN is not left trying to figure out how to rule the EARTHLY REALM, though earth is a complex place to live, it is yet in the hand's of the NATURAL MAN to solve the problem's on EARTH.

So we have PASTOR RICK WARREN, not a perfect man, but, yet a MAN, he has decided to trust and believe what the BIBLE say's, he did not write the BIBLE nor has he taken anything from it, as far as I have heard, if GOD say's this is UNGODLY then it is, it is RICK WARREN'S CALL as a MAN to do his small part to bring about peace and harmony in this EARTHLY REALM, so what some men have chosen to do is PERSECUTE RICK WARREN for trying to bring, ORDER, DISCIPLINE, and above all the SPIRIT of GOD, in a place that is a STENCH in the NOSTRIL'S of GOD, and those are GOD'S word's not my word's, nor RICK WARREN'S, I am a CHRISTIAN, and if CHRISTIAN'S did not cry out to GOD on behalf of the EARTH, and it's condition, trust me, the entire world would look like a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, because GOD created the EARTH and yet, the EARTHLY MAN is allowing the EARTH to be transformed into something that is pleasing in his sight, not GOD'S sight, GOD'S WORD will forever stand, so when the PHYSICAL MAN want's to throw a TEMPER TANTRUM because they want to MARRY another MAN, what's going on here people?

Anonymous said...

No one has mentioned that Blacks were called “bigots” and “homophobes” after the passage of Prop 8. If you were a black person attending a 'NO' to Prop 8 rally, wearing a 'NO' to Prop 8 t-shirt, and waving a 'NO' to Prop 8 sign, you were called a “nigger”, “bitch”, bigot or be at risk physically. All of this happened while a few white gays carried signs that read, “Judge not lest ye be judged.”

Because of their own SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS, gays feel JUSTIFIED in acting like ‘creeps and assholes’ themselves. Some folks have 'rationalized' their racist behavior as an 'angry moment' due to the passage of Prop 8. No, that is not so. White gays have been bigots LONG BEFORE Prop 8 was ever conceived. Just ask our black gays and black lesbians. They have been ostracized from the gay community since the Jim Crow days. In fact, some will tell you that white gays are the biggest bigots on the planet.

So the LBGT attack on Obama doesn’t surprise me at all. They voted for Obama not because they thought of him as the best candidate… they voted for him because they thought by doing so, Blacks would vote AGAINST Prop 8.

In their minds, it would be a quid pro quo. Just goes to show how much they know about religion, the bible, Christianity and the church in the Black community....ZERO

Tom0063 said...

Dear Shady,

Thanks for keeping our current pain in historical perspective.

But remember we have grown up in an era now of political correctness, where bigotry has become socially taboo, that is a big change from the 50's-60's.

Barack Obama gave many tantalizing hints that his opposition to gay marriage was merely tactical-strategic, not heartfelt.

He said in his logo interview "maybe I'll be on the wrong side of history on this".

I agree with Susan about the outrage that no woman is being called to bless us. Warren's selection does shade like on his other retrograde views as well.

I never could figure out gays instinctive trust of Hillary and not it hit me in all its simplicity: just because she's a woman, and women are less threatened by feminized men.

And Sharon, we're not talking a few mumble words here, were talking hugely enhanced national platform for hate.

Why, he is now a civil right hero, and will Keynote the speech at the Ebenezer Baptist on MLK Day.

and brohammas remember many good, kind churchgoing people also supported segregation based on rascist views. The African American Civil Rights Movement was right to condemn their racism then as we are homophobia now.

And as MLK said: "The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people"

Tom0063 said...

Anonymous.

Yes I worked hundreds of hours for Obama and spent thousands of dollars because of Prop 8 (even though I live in Nebraska). Right.

Are you a gay black? If not, you should talk to one about this, they have much more mixed and tortured feelings about this.

Rather than tear down white gays, you would be much better off going and helping your black brothers and sisters in their pain, shock and suffering.

They are the most crushed by all of this, not white gays.

Anonymous said...

Tomoo63,

I have talked to quite a number of gay blacks and lesbians about this. I am quite aware of how crushed they are. It was long BEFORE Prop 8, thanks to the white gay community.

The other source is from the behaviors of white gays who blamed the African-American community for the passage of Prop 8.

I am not tearing down white gays. What I have stated comes from the mouths of black gays and lesbians, and the media who reported how blacks were treated whites at "NO To Prop 8" rallies.

Sharon from WI said...

If you were a black person attending a 'NO' to Prop 8 rally, wearing a 'NO' to Prop 8 t-shirt, and waving a 'NO' to Prop 8 sign, you were called a “nigger”, “bitch”, bigot or be at risk physically.

Really? Black people who were on the side of gays (on their side!) were treated this way?

Well, I did say before there was lack of outreach to drum up opposition to this legislation, but to attack people supporting you is really shooting yourself in the foot.

To Tom 0063:

Do you really believe that Warren would use the occasion of the Inauguration as a platform to spew his views about gays?

Anonymous said...

"Really? Black people who were on the side of gays (on their side!) were treated this way?"

Yes. I kidd you not. An example of what happened at a say "NO to Prop 8 rally can be found on this website:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8077

Tom0063 said...

1. Sharon - Warren won't use the inauguration. He presence there is statement enough - as Pat Roberson said, he is "Remarkably pleased" with Barack Obama". This platform will give him ample opportunity to spread his gospel of gay inferiority.

2. Anonymous - your sharing is much more a matter of concern. I beg you to take it as a matter of grief and anger, not oppression. Like blacks lashing out at whites. Does that never happen? I pray we may get beyond this stage of gay-black opposition as soon as possible. This is exactly what The Man wants, and we have seen such opposition of oppressed against oppressed again and again.

Merry Christmas! (Despite all - to hell with them!)

Ernesto said...

anon, 2:31 am : "putting filthy godless words in God's mouth."

You wouldn't recognize "godliness' if it bit you on that ugly, hate-filled, judgemental ass of yours.

Anonymous said...

I live in CALIFORNIA, this is the STATE where PROPOSITION 8 was passed, and trust me the GAY COMMUNITY was making threat's as well as calling AFRICAN AMERICAN'S the N word, they stood out side of RICK WARREN'S CHURCH and tried to PERSECUTE him, but, it did not work.

The GAY and LESBIAN COMMUNITY positioned their protesting in one segment of CALIFORNIA, and trust me, at any given time they could have made their way into the AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, but, for some reason they chose not to, could it have been because of fear? well, the ANSWER is YES!

PEOPLE, I was told that 80 percent of AFRICAN AMERICAN voted for proposition 8, and trust me, CHRISTIAN'S couldn't wait to vote, because the day that a CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN, vote's yes to MEN MARRYING MEN, will be the day that JESUS will return, the CHRISTIAN'S that I fellowship with are not intimidated, nor will we back off from what the WORD of GOD say's, we stand strong, and trust me if people think RICK WARREN is bad, they should come to a SAVED SANCTIFIED CHURCH on any GIVEN SUNDAY, because RICK WARREN is LIGHT WEIGHT compared to the BLACK PASTOR'S I hear preach against MEN MARRYING MEN, AND WOMEN MARRYING WOMEN, and they have SCRIPTURE to back them up, and they could care less about being called a BIGOT or a RACIST, because at the end of the day, GOD'S WORD will forever have POWER and AUTHORITY over any MAN MADE LAW'S. AFRICAN AMERICAN'S had a time really voting for BARACK knowing how he feel's about ABORTION, but, at the end of the day, it come's down to CHOICE, CHRISTIAN'S cannot force a woman to not abort her child, we can minister to them, and pray that they decide to have their child, but at the end of the day they have a choice to give life or take it away, the GAY and LESBIAN COMMUNITY, have a choice to live by GOD'S word or turn their back's on it, and they chose to turn their back's on the WORD of GOD, and their is no such thing as a WHITE GAY being better than a BLACK GAY PERSON, they are all out of ORDER in the sight of GOD.

Anonymous said...

Ernesto-"You wouldn't recognize "godliness' if it bit you on that ugly, hate-filled, judgemental ass of yours."

I don't hate anybody. But you may be right that I don't know what godliness is. I sure want to know. Unquestionably you do know. It is evident by the goodness and beauty of your words.

Try to enjoy the holidays and the upcoming inauguration in January.
Peace.

Robert M said...

Is obama the blue truban guy. four things have happened to make me ask this question.
Obama has invited the Clintons into the cabinet. Since when under the guise of keeping your enemies closer do you put scorpions on your back when crossing a stream. Mr Warren is invited to give an invocation at Obama's inagural. Since when is bigotry incluisve? Is it when it has a religious basis? So what do you think if your Jewish? Mr Warren is giving the keynote address for the MLKJr meeting. Here you're just wrong, Field. Martin turned straight down to make sure Hell hadn't moved. lastly, JewishAmericans are lined up to see Valkyrie. This is like me going to see a movie about the "hero" Nathan Bedford Forrest. Stauffenberg was an antisemite from the day he was born. Had he succeeded and NAZI Germany sued for peace to fight the "Red Menace" do you believe they would have shut down the death camps and stopped the Holacaust? Not on your black ass

Since i cannot control this type of behavior I think the best thing I can do is buy more ammo. I suggest you do the same. the shit is very close to hitting the fan.

Dara said...

Hi Field,

I think you are wrong on this one, but I don't have to agree with everything you say to enjoy your blog- and I do- a lot!

I won't quote scripture. However, I think it highly unreasonable to bash a member of the clergy for both practicing and preaching the tenents of his faith.

We, as a country, have come a long way in our perceptions about homosexuality. There is an agreed upon tolerance (well, kinda). What seems to be wanted now is total acceptance and liberation of a lifestyle and practice that is universally condemned by the world's great religions- all of them.

I know all of this is very frustrating for GBLT people, and it is confusing and frustrating for me- a practicing Christian who is tolerant of homosexuality despite the Bible's clear stance on the behavior.

I, along with a whole lot of other folk, Christian and non-Christian, look forward to what Rev. Warren will say to call blessings and God’s anointing on this historic presidency.

Merry Christmas!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 254,

Preach The Word! Preach. The. Word.!


Praise His Holy Name!

Anonymous said...

Some interesting comments here...my two cents:

Pastor Rick Warren = white-bigoted, conservative "new age" christian self-serving, mega-church having, preaching and gettin' paid phat tithes by the well-heeled communities in So-Cal...selling "Jesus" on-line and a purpose-driven load of religio-philosophical bullshit.

Rev. Wright = christian, self-serving, pro-black church having, selling mix-tapes out his church, preaching the gospel to the poor and impoverished masses in Southside Chicago, took a small church and helped develop it AND reinvigorated the hood at the same time...AND HE spoke out, quite eloquently..in the fiery tradition of the Baptist (John), about the role our government in its own destruction and backlash from being the world's bully and chief purveyor of violence and political chicanery.

POINT: Warren would NEVER speak out on any of these kind of TRUTHS...and oh yeah before anyone here runs that "helping in the fight against AIDS in Africa bullshit to me. CONNECT THE DOTS...BUSH = monies and grants to "non-profit" christian org was this boy's angle. He knows that AIDS in Africa is a big thing for the O man too. So naturally him and Obama are closer now that Obama's jettisoned Wright..and shit, Pastor Wright even fell on his sword for ya boy at the press club conference to speed up the process of his rejecting him.

I know there was alot of bitching about Wright during the run to the POTUS but as self-serving and boistreous as the good Rev came off...he was right(eously) on point about this nation's meddling and resulting backlash...about Lady Hillary being born into dough and not dealing with the same circs a black man must contend with coming up in Amerryca.

And regardless, Obama's bitch-ass had to punk-up to the MOTU or his black ass would have never won.

sorry to digress...

Rick Warren is a Christian in name only...he's a fake Christian new-age bullshitter.

Religion is his grift...and he's apparently doing a pretty good job at it.

Anywho...I wouldn't give a fuck what anybody says but Rev Wright would've been doing my invocation
and after he was done I'd stepped up to the mike...poppin' my colla':

"WHAT BITCHES!...I'M RUNNING THIS MUTHAFUKKA NOW!

Sidebar: From my reading and research...Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. didn't discriminate against anyone...Bayard Rustin was a close friend and worked very closely with him...as a matter of fact. I never recall Dr. King in any of his speeches railing about the sins of homosexuality. As some have already stated here, this is not about conservative/liberal, straight/gay, pro-marriage for gays or anti-marriage for gays...this is simply about CIVIL RIGHTS for ALL AMERICANS.

I'm straight as come they folks...but if two grown-ass people want to get married or whatever, THAT'S THEIR FUKKIN BUSINESS PEOPLE!.

They have the right be as equally miserable or happy as everybody else.

PEACE AND HAIR GREASE!

Anonymous said...

the day that a CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN, vote's yes to MEN MARRYING MEN, will be the day that JESUS will return



Amen~ You can bank that!

Tom0063 said...

Anonymous:

Matthew 19:8-11 :
8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

11-12 are very mysterious, true?

Jesus never said nothing about gay people, on the other hand his condemnation of divorce is absolute, not true?

But you probably prefer to pick and choose when you don't like Jesus, yes?

Tom0063 said...

correction:

Jesus never condemned gay people.

Anonymous said...

“…I beg you to take it as a matter of grief and anger, not oppression. Like blacks lashing out at whites. Does that never happen? I pray we may get beyond this stage of gay-black opposition as soon as possible. This is exactly what The Man wants, and we have seen such opposition of oppressed against oppressed again and again.”

I too hope gay-black opposition will sometime in the future end. However--blaming Blacks for Prop 8, relentless bashing of Rick Warren, and continued put-downs of Obama---I have a feeling it’s going to be a LONG, LONG time before that happens.

From your point of view, white gay/lesbian racist name calling and threatening Blacks at SAY NO to Prop 8 rallies was due to their ‘grief and anger’ at Blacks for the outcome of Prop 8. Are you saying they REALLY didn’t mean to call Blacks “niggers” or attack them? Regardless, that kind of threatening anger, and name calling doesn’t bring people together. Wouldn’t you agree?

IMO, white gays saw Blacks useful only as a hopeful quid pro quo vote for Prop 8 (which they politically miscalculated). Dan Savage’s reaction and comments about Blacks after the Prop 8 vote proved that.

So you can spare me the talk about “The Man” because white gays ARE part of “The Man“.

Anonymous said...

This is to all the people that are upset with the PRESIDENT ELECT, so you have decided to jump on the BANDWAGON of all the other(BEAT UP ON BARACK PEOPLE), BARACK did the traditional HOUSE NEGRO DANCE, to get elected, and he did it very well, and MICHELLE OBAMA danced along with him, they were doing a new dance in a new time, and the people loved it.

NOW I see, I need to inform some of you so called FIELD NEGRO'S, about what the term "BY ANY MEAN'S NECESSARY MEAN'S" we are in the year 2008, A AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN is going to be the PRESIDENT of the WHITE MAN'S UNITED STATE'S, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA is a FIELD NEGRO, who has danced his way all the way to the SLAVE'S BUILT WHITE HOUSE, now some of you may get this, and some of you will continue to stay stuck in the mind set of the (MALCOLM X ERA) and I have great respect for MALCOM X, but BARACK has made his way into the WHITE MAN'S CAMP, and they want him OUT, but BARACK has paid his due's, he dressed like a WHITE MAN, bowed to the WHITE MAN, and "said he was DENOUNCING REV WRIGHT" take note of the word, (SAID), and WHY did he do this? because the (CAUSE) is far greater than REV. WRIGHT, or any other so called (FIELD NEGRO) who think's, the MINDSET of a BLACKMAN should be limited to BULL HORN'S and PICKET SIGN'S, no DISRESPECT to SHARPTON and JACKSON, but BARACK is in the mindset of (BY ANY MEAN'S NECESSARY) BARACK and MICHELLE OBAMA are FIELD NEGRO'S but they have first hand knowledge, of what it will take to make sure that the (CAUSE will never ever be forgotten, same (CAUSE) new way, new people, same fight, in the word's of MALCOM X, BY ANY MEAN'S NECESSARY.

Anonymous said...

Incog,
You really need to take a break. What's the matter? Didn't you get any XMAS presents?

Anonymous said...

Tom0063

Jesus never comdemned gay people

Who are you kidding, Tom?

Romans 1:18, 24-28, 32 The WRATH OF GOD is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... [24] Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the DEGRADING of their bodies with one another. [25] They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen. [26] Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for UNNATURAL ones. [27] In the same way the MEN ALSO ABANDONED NATURAL RELATIONS WITH WOMEN AND WERE INFLAMED WITH LUST FOR ONE ANOTHER. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their PERVERSION. [28] Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.... [32] Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

God’s Word identifies husband-wife relations as “NATURAL relations” and HOMOsexual relations as “UNNATURAL ones.” God defines same sex marriages, therefore, as "unnatural" relationships!


Now deny that if you will Tom!

Tom0063 said...

Anonymous:

Your wrath and pride have blinded you.

Romans was written by St. Paul, not Jesus. I was quite specific.

Jesus never condemned homosexuality - period.

And you failed you respond to Jesus' words.

Anonymous said...

Stop! Just stop!

The entire Bible is the Word of God. The Old Testament is God in Heaven. The New Testament is God (in the flesh) on earth.

Homosexuality is a sin. God created male & female. 2 men can't reproduce. 2 women can't reproduce.

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh" Genesis 2:24.

Stop lying and possibly causing others to come into judgement of God. Stop trying to deceive or you will be held accountable. The God I AM knows exactly who you are, Jim!

After the flood~ "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth".


How is 2 men going to multiply and replenish the earth? They can't! It takes a male & female to multiply.


Homosexuality is a sin!

Sharon from WI said...

Anonymous:

Stop! Just stop!...

Homosexuality is a sin. God created male & female. 2 men can't reproduce. 2 women can't reproduce...How is 2 men going to multiply and replenish the earth? They can't! It takes a male & female to multiply.


If we were to run with your logic, then infertile couples or the elderly are not eligible to marry since you believe it is solely for the sake of procreation.

Tom0063 said...

Matthew 22:

Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Footnotes:

1. Matthew 5:22 Some manuscripts brother without cause
2. Matthew 5:22 An Aramaic term of contempt


Some consider that "Raca" may be the Aramaic equivalent of "fag"


Much of the old law was swept away by Jesus, and let us not forget St. Paul supported slavery in addition to condemning homosexuality:

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."

God calls us to continue the progress towards human equality and freedom beyond the barbarities of the ancient and medieval world.

The fact that you do no reason with or reflect upon Holy Scripture in its entirety (beyond the parts which support your bigotry) is very telling.

As are your hysterical attempts to silence me.

It won't work, because the truth is on our side. And the truth shall set us free.

Peace.

Anonymous said...

Homosexuality is a sin!

Tom0063 said...

No it isn't!

Anonymous said...

Homosexuality is a sin! God's Word does not change. You are living in denial! You can deny until you turn blue in the face but God's Word will stand forever!



Genesis 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were SINNING GREATLY against the Lord.

Genesis 19:4-5, 11-13, 24 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. [5] They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have SEX WITH THEM.” ... [11] Then [the messengers from God] struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. [12] The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here — sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, [13] because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that HE has sent us to DESTROY it.” ... [24] Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens.


Homosexuality is a sin! It is ungodly, unnatural, unrighteous and detestable before God. An unrepentant homosexual will bust hell wide open!

Tom0063 said...

God loves me just I am.

I am his dear child.

No living hell of hate for me, and I face the great next journey in faithful expectation.

God invites us all to such a world of love and acceptance. There is deep joy here, and peace.

May you some day come to know such brotherhood and sisterhood with your fellow human beings.

Your witness will be a special joy to God's eyes.

Dara said...

Tom0063, God bless you! Thank you for your input. I am so sorry that that there are those who chose the word of God to condemn and spew hatred rather than to bless and love.

There are disagreements within the faith that cannot be easily solved. May those within the faith learn to practice tolerance, even while adhering to our own faith traditions and standards.

Anonymous said...

Dara & Tom,

I don't hate you! I'd better not otherwise God would hold me accountable. God does love you! It's the sin that he hates...not the sinner.

Anonymous said...

TOM0063 and SHARON FROM WI, I am here to back the other's up, SIN is a stench in the nostril's of GOD, in other word's when GOD look's down from heaven and has to witness two men in the act of HOMOSEXUALITY, he has to turn his head on it, and do you know why? well the answer is, it is an offense, so to be blunt, it make's him SICK. now I don't know who you people are, but, somewhere along your path in life, you have become lost, and you need to be turned in the direction of the TRUE and LIVING GOD.

DARKNESS cannot UNDERSTAND LIGHT, so I can be on this computer until JESUS come's trying to bring you into the FULLNESS and KNOWLEDGE of GOD. TOMOO63, GOD gave PAUL the inspiration to speak in his behalf, as he did PETER, and if you think for one minute, GOD would allow PAUL to misrepresent him in an UNGODLY manner just to please you, then you need to find a church and get on your knee's and REPENT.

ROMAN'S 5 VERSE 21
THAT as SIN hath reigned unto death, even so might GRACE reign through RIGHTEOUSNESS unto ETERNAL LIFE by JESUS CHRIST our LORD.

ROMAN'S 6 23
FOR the wage's of SIN is death, but the gift of GOD is eternal life through JESUS CHRIST our LORD.

TOMOO63 you are out of order as a MAN, GOD gave man RULE over the EARTH, and for some reason you have decided to challenge GOD, but you are not alone, GOD gave man instruction's as far as what is pleasing in his sight, and you have decided that HOMOSEXUALITY should be pleasing in the sight of GOD, well it is not and it will never be, and GOD has SCRIPTURE to back him up. and SHARON FROM WI you need to find a CHURCH to go to, so you can be enlightened, you need to be introduced to GOD.

Hattie said...

I'm with you, Field. A big tent is fine, but not one big enough to include Rev. Warren.

Tom said...

Anonymous - may God heal all our wounds and bless us with the bright light of truth and the peace which surpasses all understanding.

Anonymous said...

Hattie,

As much as I love Field Negro, both of you are wrong. And it's no small thing to say that to the Field Negro. He is truely the best!

PEO is about unity. Let him bring this country together. George Bush has run the country into the ground. Let PEO bring us out of this muck!

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:23pm,


You Better Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon-"Homosexuality is a sin."

Tom0063-"No it isn't!"

Here's what Paul said in Romans 1:26-27...

"God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

Paul is pretty clear on the subject.

Anonymous said...

IF these people had a true relationship with GOD, this discussion would not be taking place, they need to be born again, and GOD know's SHARON need's to be, and TOM0063 is determined to PERVERT the WORD of GOD, he has decided to turn and twist the word of GOD around to make it fit his way of thinking or living, and he is pretty bold about it.

TOM0063 read GENESIS, that's where GOD will introduce himself to you, and trust me, he will reveal his AUTHORITY, and POWER, to you, it's a personal thing, because in your present state of mind, you have no respect for GOD, you put GOD down to your level, and GOD will never allow that, GOD is a SPIRIT and they that WORSHIP him, must WORSHIP him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH for if you had, the fear of GOD in you, their is no way, you would dare be on this website trying to convince people that HOMOSEXUALITY is not SIN.

field negro said...

I met god once, and he said I was cool. So there!

Anonymous said...

Field, I know you are cool. But EVERYBODY can't be cool. SOMEBODY has to be on the side of evil. Otherwise, this universe would fall apart.

Everybody claims that God loves them. Somebody is lying.

Sharon from WI said...

Anon:and SHARON FROM WI you need to find a CHURCH to go to, so you can be enlightened, you need to be introduced to GOD.

FYI...I'm Jewish. So, if I am ever in need of any spiritual guidance, it won't not be from you.

Anonymous said...

SHARON, as a JEWISH person, you should count your BLESSING'S because the JEW'S are GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, so that mean's you should respect GOD and lift his name on high, it is your responsibility as a HEBREW to know the RULE'S and LAW'S of GOD.

AND yes, you are in need of SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE, because as I write, your people are under continual attack, so if you had a relationship with GOD, you would be crying out in behalf of ISRAEL, but, trust me their are MILLION'S of CHRISTIAN'S all over the WORLD that are crying out in behalf of ISRAEL, you say you do not need SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE, well, GOD BLESS YOU, because each and every day, I look for GOD to direct my footstep's, and keep me from danger seen and unseen, and I thank and PRAISE GOD, that he hear's my cry as I seek him, day by day, so I'm not to PROUD to say "I would be lost, if GOD did not give me SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE day by day.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:59,

Tell It!

Praise The Lord!

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:59,
Thanks for standing for up for God. There have been so many non-supporters of God on this thread that I began to wonder how Prop 8 ever passed!

They have desecrated the Sacred. They have called God 'creepy' and denounced the existence of the Spirit of God. They continue to throw rocks at the hearts of those who believe in God; and they look down on those who pray or read and study the Bible.

Their mean-spirited crooked hearts overflow with gladness when they trash God, the Bible, and the Christian faith. Needless to say, it is NOT appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:25,

AMEN!

field negro said...

"Their mean-spirited crooked hearts overflow with gladness when they trash God, the Bible, and the Christian faith. Needless to say, it is NOT appreciated."

Dear god I am sorry. Can I go to heaven with the rest of you now?

Anonymous said...

Field,

Carl Jung, a great pyschiatrist once said, "The telling truth about a person's life is their relationship with the Infinite."

If Jung is right, then in the end, it's going to be between YOU and GOD. So I have no idea whether you or anyone else goes 'up or down.' Again, that's between you and God.

Dara said...

Field, can you just close the thread?

This has gotten to the point of the ridiculous. I am sorry I ever responded. The absolute lack of tolerance and respect afforded to contributors (regardless of their opinion) by these Anonymous folk is offensive and appalling.

Sharon from WI said...

Dara,

It just goes to show you how tolerant they must be in real life if this is how they behave online.

Anonymous said...

Dara,

You don't HAVE to read the comments. You can ignore them!

Anonymous said...

Dara,
The first comments on this thread were condescending and insulting to those who believed in God. Some comments mocked God. Some claimed that homosexuality was never discussed in the Bible, that according to the Bible, the act of homosexuality was not sinful.

I noticed you didn’t call them “ridiculous” or “appalling”.

Like it or not, God, church and marriage between a man and woman is grounded in ALL theistic religions, and has existed in the Christian faith since Adam and Eve. Many Christians take marriage between a man and woman very seriously and sincerely as part of their faith.

Where's YOUR tolerance and compassion for those people?

Religion IS a “matter of the heart”. Pro or con, the human heart has plenty to say when it comes to same-sex marriage, the Christian faith, the bible, Warren, and Obama’s INTENTION in selecting Warren.

So who knows? This thread could be just getting started. In any case, I am GRATEFUL to Field for this thread where differences of opinions can be exchanged.

Ridiculous or not, they could be helping someone.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Anonymous said...

The first comments on this thread were condescending and insulting to those who believed in God. Some comments mocked God. Some claimed that homosexuality was never discussed in the Bible, that according to the Bible, the act of homosexuality was not sinful.

I noticed you didn’t call them “ridiculous” or “appalling”.



Preach!

Dara said...

Anonymous, both of you,

You are not sharing opinions, you are condemning and bashing people for not believing as you do. Such tactics are never successful in sharing the word of God and winning souls for Christ.

I am not reading the thread again.

Anonymous said...

DARA, if you are a CHRISTIAN, you should be screaming to the roof top that "JESUS SAVE'S" but, instead you chose to tell other CHRISTIAN'S how to
SPEAK in defense of the WORD of GOD!! as CHRISTIAN'S we are told to PREACH the word of GOD in SEASON and out of SEASON, so we have been given permission by GOD and MAN, MAN being THE FIELD NEGRO, so if he keep's this THREAD OPEN, then their is a
reason for it!

SO FIELD NEGRO, keep this thread OPEN. DARA, the word of GOD tell's us that we are either HOT or COLD, so I chose to be HOT, and I will not apologize for it. IF LESBIAN'S and HOMOSEXUAL'S can stand in front of a CHURCH and PROTEST AGAINST RIGHTEOUSNESS, then we can stand in defense of it! you see I am a CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN, that mean's that, no matter what RULE'S and LAW'S MAN may PASS, it is the WORD of GOD, that shall forever stand, you see I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST! SO FIELD NEGRO keep this thread open!

DARA, I see your face beside your comment, and from what I can see you walk in the OFFICE of an EVANGELIST, or maybe GOD is calling you to come up a little bit HIGHER, for I see in the SPIRIT, that you do not have a problem showing your face, but yet, you will not come forth and REBUKE the SPIRIT'S of LESBIANISM, or HOMOSEXUALITY, for this is a SIN in the sight of GOD, for if we are to be CHRISTIAN'S, we are to defend the WORD of GOD, FOR TIME IS FAR SPENT, we are in the last DAY'S, GOD has given the CHRISTIAN'S full POWER and AUTHORITY to SPEAK in his behalf, and I will not be silent, so FIELD NEGRO KEEP THIS THREAD OPEN!!!

Anonymous said...

Keep it going Anon 12:21!

You can best believe Dara is still taking a peek at this thread.


Glory to God!

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:21.

Preach on! I know Dara is watching and listening. I know she knows that you are right.

God is Good. Preach on!

Anonymous said...

ANON 12:29 and ANON 1:50, time is far spent, and it's time to PRAY without ceasing, their are WAR'S all over the place, people are sitting back waiting for OBAMA to be the solution, but not so, now, GOD will not put any more on BARACK than he can bare, BARACK is a willing VESSEL, so GOD has used him, and will continue to use him, for such a time as this, and no, by no mean's is BARACK, JESUS, but, one thing, I will say, about this YOUNG MAN is that, GOD use's him for his GLORY, do I agree with some of his policy's? NO, do I PRAY for him? YES, because the DEVIL DESIRE'S TO SIFT HIM AS WHEAT, but, as long as CHRISTIAN'S WATCH and PRAY for him, he will be GIRDED in the next FOUR YEAR'S with a overflow of PRAYER, and as far as RICK WARREN is CONCERNED, as long as he PREACH'S (JESUS) and HOLINESS, that's find with me, and beside's THE GAY and LESBIAN'S better leave GOD fearing CHRISTIAN'S alone, I think, we are being very PATIENT with them, but we are not going to just sit back and allow them to continue to try and make a MOCKERY out of CHRISTIANITY, we do, know how to PRAY! AND PRAYER WORK'S!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:58

we are not going to just sit back and allow them to continue to try and make a MOCKERY out of CHRISTIANITY, we do, know how to PRAY! AND PRAYER WORK'S!!



Amen! Praise Almighty God.

Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:58, I agree with everything you have said. Don't know if you read or heard about Gays/Lesbians who broke into a Mormon Church. It was said that they hung a large flag, with two lesbians making love, INSIDE the church! That's enough to make Satan cringe. They even burned a Mormon bible at the door of the church. This happened shortly after Prop 8 passed in CA.

I hope they are smart enough to NEVER try that in a Christian Church.

Anonymous said...

Don't know if you read or heard about Gays/Lesbians who broke into a Mormon Church. It was said that they hung a large flag, with two lesbians making love, INSIDE the church!



Oh.My.God.

How long will this madness go on? How long?

Anonymous said...

NO, I didn't hear about all of this PERVERSION, but, what can you expect, they do not have the fear of GOD in them! but, it's one thing I do know, when you begin to ATTACK the BODY of CHRIST, you had better be very, very careful, for their is such a thing as WAR ANGEL'S, and trust me, when you read the BIBLE, we as CHRISTIAN'S are to understand the TEACHING'S, for GOD has not left us in this EARTHLY REALM WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE.

AS CHRISTIAN'S we are to understand the full knowledge, as to who we are, for we are part FLESH and part SPIRIT, for we have crossed over from DARKNESS into LIGHT, so GOD want's us to be able to see thing's with our SPIRITUAL SIGHT, so that's why as CHRISTIAN'S, GOD expect us to WATCH and PRAY, we are to be his WATCHMEN over the EARTH, for if we as CHRISTIAN'S, do not cry out to GOD for MERCY, when it come's to the condition of the EARTH, GOD only know's what the condition would be, the WRATH of GOD has been MERCIFUL so far, and yes I see MEN and WOMEN with no SHAME FLAUNTING their BEHAVIOR, so it's best that these people do not VENTURE into a LAYING ON OF HAND'S, PURGING, HOLY GHOST FILLED CHURCH, but, then again, LET THEM COME!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:46

NO, I didn't hear about all of this PERVERSION, but, what can you expect, they do not have the fear of GOD in them! but, it's one thing I do know, when you begin to ATTACK the BODY of CHRIST, you had better be very, very careful, for their is such a thing as WAR ANGEL'S, and trust me, when you read the BIBLE, we as CHRISTIAN'S are to understand the TEACHING'S, for GOD has not left us in this EARTHLY REALM WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE.


You keep on preaching the Word. Praise Almighty God. Holy IS His Name!

Anonymous said...

16 days before Rick Warren gives a beautiful invocation at Obama's inauguration!

amere-ika said...

Warren's not just a homophobe. He's destroying anti-AIDS efforts in Africa. Check out...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-07/the-truth-about-rick-warren-in-africa/
http://dykeabroad.blogspot.com/2009/01/obamas-first-gift-to-africa-rick-warren.html

Anonymous said...

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