Every now and then I need to get some help from you, my field Negro (and honorary field Negro) friends, about some issues that I struggle with.
Now I don't want to be too cryptic, but I write under certain constraints that I don't want to get into, so forgive me if I am not my usual forthcoming self with you.
Anyway, I have a hypothetical question for you folks:
Why is it that some men choose to leave their perfectly intact family, (or a child they fathered) and hook up with a new par amour who has children of her own, and then he treats those step children better than his own? But even worse; if there is an obligation to pay support to his biological children, where does he get the audacity to ask the court to reduce his support order because he has the added responsibility of a new family?
And another thing: why is it that non-custodial parents who are women refuse to pay child support? They could make a million dollars a year and you would have to bring them into support court kicking and screaming to take care of their obligations. One woman told me that she carried that child for nine months and felt the pain of bearing him, so she would be damned if she would give money to some man who got custody of their child for the sole purpose of not paying child support.
Oh, and brothers, just a thought here: Unless you have Will Smith type loot; It's hard to build wealth when you have three different child support payments coming out of your check. I don't care how much money you make, most state child support guidelines make support orders proportionate to your income. So you might want to think about that the next time you go wetting your whistle after peeking a big butt and a smile. It's not only your health you have to think about, it's your financial future as well.
But those were just some hypothetical situations, and I was just thinking out loud.
77 comments:
The first problem is that as men, we generally think with the WRONG BRAIN.
We don't consider the financial ramifications of the choices we make when it comes to women, leaving our families, or chasing a NEW piece of ass.
A good piece of advice for black men: Use that TOOL between yo TWO shoulders.
A-DOUBLE-MEN.
I can't front, I have Fresh Prince's old chit from back in the day. Homeboy could tell a story on the mike. Dude was hipster way before Urban Outfitters started to sale jeans in extra medium.
There's a little more to it than financial ramifications, huh? I don't understand the emotional disconnect. A parent leaves his/her child. How does one do that??? Is that one of those Mars/Venus things? I've experienced this personally. I'm the kid of a deadbeat dad.
I got a phone call one day from my dad telling me that he was, essentially, breaking up with me. Don't call or try to find him. I was 11.
Fast forward to age 26 when I happen to find him and contact him. He only lived a couple of miles from me. He made plenty promises to keep in touch. His wife was very unhappy about my visit. I never heard from him again.
Fast forward again to age 43. He had a stroke and died. We never got to talk.
Some kind of fairy tale, huh?
Field, don't even get me started! My first husband let me put him through engineering school, have 3 kids, and then, once he graduated, he just decided he didn't want to be married OR have kids! (Found out later there was another woman)Then he bitched and moaned so much about the child support that the judge ordered that the chld support come directly out of his paycheck. Even when he started making lots more money, and I took him back to court, he still bitched and moaned. There has been lots of research over time to show how women suffer economically, and seldom really catch up, particularly if they are raising the children. Men, not so much. Their dad is now quite wealthy, and well me, I took a job in education so that I could have the same schedule as my kids while they were growing up. I don't regret that choice, but I will never be as financially well off as their dad. He is now on his 4th marriage! I don't feel sorry for any of the SOBs that leave their wives, particularly if they have to pay for it!
A lot of things are in play here. A lot of dudes can't separate the relationship with the woman that's failed from the child produced from that relationship. Also, the new woman resents the child that the dude has with the old woman because it takes resources away from her kids and push the dude to abandon the child from previous relationship.
Well, certainly there are deadbeat dads out there. No excuse for that. However, there is also no shortage of women who makes their husbands and families absolutely miserable, until they have to leave. Not to mention women who have a child to lock in 18 years of payments. Also women who think that having a baby will fix a broken relationship. Guys who leave for their own sanity then get abused, talked bad about to the kids, jerked around on visitation, and treated like nothing more than a meal ticket. It goes both ways.
Ummm, Field, is everything okay???
Just asking, you know.
As for the topic at hand, what more can be said? Both men and women need to take responsibility for their actions, before and after the child is here. It seems simple enough, but that's where it ends.
Had to catch up on a few previous posts - LMAO at 'loofs' - trust and believe that I will borrow this one.
Naj in VA
Anon (11:18pm), that certainly is not right either. In terms of numbers, do you think those women outnumber those kinds of men, the deadbeat dads? And are you drawing some sort of correlation between them?
I'm Michele, the first anonymous, btw. I accidentally hit post before I could sign my name. Sorry.
Issues issues issues. Where is Dr.Phil when you need him.LOL!
But seriously, JP made some great points about these cats seperating their relationships from their children. They see the child as an extension of a bad relationship. I don't get that.
And as anon. said,not all my sisters have clean hands. I have seen the other side of the coin as well. But I have to keep it real with you, I think the fellows should take the brunt of the blame here.
Anon. 10:57PM, that was a hell of a story. Sorry for your pain. I hope you worked through it all.
"I took a job in education so that I could have the same schedule as my kids while they were growing up. I don't regret that choice, but I will never be as financially well off as their dad..."
sfd928, if I had a dollar for every time I heard a story similar to that one I might have Will Smith money. But way to get the last laugh.
"A good piece of advice for black men: Use that TOOL between yo TWO shoulders."
Or the one with the five fingers on it.
ms_hgrits, I am fine. Just a rough day at work. ;)
Thanks for asking.
And as Anon 10:57 pointed out all too well, it is the kids that ultimately pay, no matter if the woman or the man is at fault. I have heard too many stories like his as well, and it takes a lot of counseling for those kiddos to really believe that they were not at fault!
"Anon. 10:57PM, that was a hell of a story. Sorry for your pain. I hope you worked through it all. "
Oh yeah, Field, that's a constant. There's just some things in childhood that never disappear completely.
Like I said previously, the emotional disconnect has always left me wondering. No matter what the mother has done, the abandonment of your own flesh and blood is perplexing to me.
I'll answer Michelle. My guess is they're about the same. A lot of black women in particular behave in ways to drive a man away. They had broken father relationships and they bring that into the relationship with the man and drive him nuts.
Your headline here reminded me of this:
http://coparenting101.org/2008/11/24/its-the-economy-honey/
Hard times are keeping some folks together.
Another perspective on the child support issue: Some women (and maybe some men?) are under the impression that child support is due them as some sort of consolation prize. Man bounces = woman gets check for kids. Generally, this is true. But I know of a case where the parents have 50-50 custody, dad doesn't earn too much more than mom does, and he pays for medical and dental insurance, and after school care...and mom still feels entitled to a check. So she attempted to take him for child support...twice. Ends up, when all is calculated and done, she owes him. Couldn't leave well enough alone.
What was that line from the Outkast song, "Ms. Jackson"? Something bout how the child is a baby not a paycheck?
I too had a deadbeat dad, and I hate when people try to use the system for their own personal gain. Yes, the system fails some, but it does help others. People shouldn't abuse it.
Why can't these men just use condoms, for crying out loud?
Just heard a good one today. A friend of mine's daughter is marrying a guy with three kids from a previous marriage. He fought for custody. Guess who takes care of his kids. That's right. His mother! And now his new wife!
I think once you have kids you do everything to stay together. Everything.
So tomorrow there will be rumors all over the internet that Will Smith has left his wife for a woman with three kids and he is refusing to see his own kids or support them in any way. And maybe The Enquirer.
Great points FK. Yes, sometimes the overnights in a custody situation does effect child support. And custodial parents need to be realistic with the child support issues. If when you slept with him he was a bum with no job, why do you expect the courts to now make him a millionaire? It's all about the proper choices, from both men and women.
Hattie, tell your friend to have a talk with her daughter. Or send her over to the fields for some intervention. :)
"No matter what the mother has done, the abandonment of your own flesh and blood is perplexing to me."
Michelle, thanks again for sharing.
Old white guy, I hope not. Besides this is just a small engine here. Now if that sicko Drudge was to do a post like this, then Will would be in trouble. But you are right, maybe I shouldn't have put my hommie's pic with this post. I don't want to leave the wrong impression. Will is a solid family man. And the thing is, he could afford not to be.
BTW, I trust "The Inquirer", I don't think they would run with this story.
Drill that pussy.
I have no direct experience on this issue, but I was going to say what JP said. They see the relationship as a mistake and the children as products of that mistake. Like a car that a couple bought together, but now that he doesn't want to deal with the co-owner anymore, he doesn't like the car as much.
How can you look at a human being, a child, almost as an object? Well if thinking about that way spares you from guilt or intense discomfort, you might do it (not you as in you, Field, of course). Humans often deal with a difficult life experience by not facing it, then rationalize why we didn't face it. Put succinctly, a coping mechanism.
Needless to say, it's not good, but that's why I think it happens over and over.
Brother Field...I could not imagine not being with my children daily. The children suffers now because the family suffered first. I take it that this blog is referencing men/women that may have an economic impact by their presence. Here is another slant. A large amount of kids have no clue as to thier fathers. I am not picking on the male but the percentage tells me if they have a sense of family this problem would be such a hugh social problem. I feel that the problem will only get worse. There are few social cues demanding men to be faithful to the family. Which came first-- the dissolution of the family or Fifth Avenue glorifying conquest over the opposite sex within the cloak of "doing my own thing". A tibit... when has the government fostered the intact family? So I quess when you got it (money) you dont need to "be there" for your kids. To House Negro.. I pray that that was a statement of frustration.
As far as treating stepkids better, my mom made a sharp observation of my dad after they divorced (I was already in high school). She said, "He's a terrific uncle." Meaning that the lower expectations & responsibilities he had with other kids brought out a side in him my wom wished he had shown more to us. When he remarried, he had wonderful relationships with his two teenage stepchildren who were, at the time, lower acheivers than his natural children. But he's gone now & I don't hold that against him.
Here's an idea--how's about we work to cultivate the notion that no matter what, our children are the products of GOOD relationship(s)? We need to see those precious humans as valuable, as being our greatest treasure. That might help us remember what it was about their co-creator(s) that allowed us to let our guards down long enough to conjoin--yes, even those times when it was just a hook-up, though that will never be the model for perfect parentage. And THAT might help us return to a position of respect, then concern and perhaps even love when times get tough and we find ourselves thinkin' about steppin' out an' sniffin'. Social changes comes, though it takes a wide-ranging, looping path, come it does. And getting our kids squarely in the center of our social universe would help strengthed our families and our sense of loving obligation eventually.
People are rarely rational in matters of the heart. For every man that doesn't wear a condom there's a woman allowing it.
I think the whole child support industry should be revamped so that it works better for men and children.
Under current guidelines creating a new family when you still have responsibility for one seems to be pretty stupid. However I understand that marriages/relationships die and people move on. So it goes.
"House Negro",you might want to head back inside now. Clearly field work has done something to your brain. Sshhhhsh.
"Here's an idea--how's about we work to cultivate the notion that no matter what, our children are the products of GOOD relationship(s)? We need to see those precious humans as valuable, as being our greatest treasure."
Co-sign Mrs. C.
Shady_Grady, believe it or not, many states go through changes to their guidelines on a regular basis. You sound like you have some pretty good ideas. Whenever you want to you can shoot me an e-mail,(fnblg@yahoo.com) and I will pass your ideas to the right folks here in PA.
I have a special place in my heart for men who leave their families because they somehow think that they can do better. Yeah, sometimes the relationship is bad, but sometimes people (More often men, than women) are just selfish assholes who only care about themselves. When you have children together I think that you should do everything you can to make the relationship work. When a child's parents seperate, his or her view of the world changes. Depending on the parents, the impact can be lessened but that's unfortuantely way too rare. That whole horrible situation started to play out in my sister's marriage last year. Which is one reason that even though I used to live in Mass, I was thrilled when the Patriots lost. No ,it's not fair to project all my anger at selfish fathers onto Tom Brady for leaving his pregnant girlfriend for Leonardo DeCaprio's sloppy seconds, however life's not fair so too bad.
JP said...
"I'll answer Michelle. My guess is they're about the same. A lot of black women in particular behave in ways to drive a man away. They had broken father relationships and they bring that into the relationship with the man and drive him nuts."
Fair enough. However, more than likely those MIA/deadbeat/philandering fathers were most likely black men. On and on we go. Just wanted to mention that... going back into the woodwork now. Don't let me start, Field might want to cut me a check for a therapist.
Will Smith could get his shup-shup going with me for free, anytime he wants to, and the best news for him is, I can't get pregnant, if you follow my drift.
I am going to say some things that some may not agree with...but hey we live in a country were we all have the right to freedom of speech...so here goes. First off I am a 31 yr old woman with no children and that is by choice. I refuse to bring a child into this world without the help of a father. As a woman I feel it is our responsiblity to make sure we are making better choices in our selection concerning our potential mates. Men are ready to have children when he is ready and not one day sooner. My mother always told me men can walk away from a child, but the mother can't so make sure you can provide for you child just in case he does. You can a house full of kids if you want, it will still NOT make that man stay!!! We need to stop trying to make these babies compensate for failing relationships....they just don't !!! We also need to stop acting as if we are not truly a women unless we have given birth. Or that there is some time frame we must have a child, married or not. Can't tell you how many baby showers I have been to since turning 18, (only been to 3 bridal showers). Oh and zoopath... have you ever thought that maybe Tom Brady didn't want to have children by his sons mother? I believe he probably told her from jump how he felt she just didn't care. Classic example, she thought her having his first born son will make him stay...NOT! ( as a woman why would you call another woman sloppy seconds?) I am pretty sure you have been in more than one relationship in your lifetime would you like to be thought of like that? A man who truly plans wants a child by you will be more willing to try to stick it out with you if for nothing else he wants to see he child that he planned and wanted grow up, (and he don't want his kid calling someone else dady ) I say this as a woman, talk to your man, build relationships before bringing life into this world. Don't have a child unless you are finacially secure, child support never replaces the love of a good loving father. A "real "woman gives her child a father.
I know I placed a lot on the woman by some of my comments, yes there are deadbeats out there... that's why we as women need to be patient and get to know a brother first, (some of us don't even know the mans D.O.B. or S.S. number,two very important numbers)
When I went to college it was the first time I met people who "didn't have" fathers.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around a parent walking away from their children. I understand that relationships fall apart, but why take it out on the child?
I agree some women think having a baby with a man will make them stay or fix a bad relationship. Again the child suffers.
If someone (male or female) is going to have a child be a damn parent. If not, don't have kids. The destruction of the family is a huge problem in our community. I fear it's getting worse not better.
“I love my wife, I love my kids, and I love my money.”
My personal mantra whenever I get tempted.
@browngirl: I'm not loving the condescending tone of your post, but I won't reciprocate. For the record, I think birth control for both genders should be mandatory until you can prove that you can bring the child into a stable home. Irresponsible reproduction is really one of my pet peeves.
I'm well aware that having a baby with Brigdet may bot have been what Brady wanted. However, I wish that he would have wanted to try to provide an intact family for his son even more than he wanted to leave the relationship. I'm a child of divorce so I will admit my bias. As for the sloppy seconds, if I were involved with a child not having an intact family (they weren't married so I can't call her a home wrecker) then (as a woman) I wouldn't resent being called sloppy seconds. It's the context. If Tom Brady had asked me out I would have turned him down and suggested that he try to keep an intact family for his to-be-born son.
It's just too much selfishness all around. Women who use children to keep men are having children for selfish reasons. Men who don't take personal responsiblity for their fertility and then don't make the resulting child their priority are selfish, too. I guess I think that children are indeed *that* important.
browngrl, I'm not trying to dispute some of the things you are saying. In fact I’ve always felt the same way to a certain degree.
However, I can’t help but to wonder if the motives surrounding your "opinions" might be disingenuous. It always amazes me how aggressively eager that one childless (black) woman always try to use this topic as some sort of delusional self seeking elevation with that same old fucking deadbeat-enabling script.
You're not even flattering yourself. No one is going to pat you on the back, and society still have a name for women like you.
”As a woman I feel it is our responsiblity to make sure we are making better choices in our selection concerning our potential mates.
that's why we as women need to be patient and get to know a brother first”
I agree, really I do. But I'm glad you have it all figured out, it’s as easy as that. So let us know when you’ll be expecting your first bundle of joy, or wen you'll be celebrating that 30th wedding anniversary with your perfect fatherly "brother" you are sure so to find.
why is it that non-custodial parents who are women refuse to pay child support?
There's something you don't hear alot. Women tend not to get tagged with the deadbeat label because of biology (can't deny the child is theirs + the courts tend to put custody in the woman's favour). Frankly when I see a woman who hasn't fought tooth and nail for custody I figure something's wrong with her.
In your line of work you probably see a lot of instances where a man treats the step kids better. What I keep seeing are lousy boyfriends beating their girlfriend's kids to death, or just abuse them mentally and physically. Can you be any more "deadbeat" than to let a guy beat up your kids?
Easy answer field - booty! New booty always trumps old booty.
@false1: I see more step fathers treating the stepkids worse. It was true in my case (nothing bad, just enough for me to notice the difference). Women should be very careful about who they bring into their children's lives. All to many times you see the mother choosing the new relationship over their child's wellbeing and it's really tragic. You would think that if the relationship were truly worthwhile, you wouldn't have to throw your children under the bus to save it. However, way too many people don't think that way.
Absentee fathers are not specific to any race, creed, or color. My mom and dad were divorced when I was 4 and my sister was still an infant. It was his third marriage and he already had a daughter from the second marriage. His 4th marriage finally produced the son he had wanted. His fifth marriage was very brief. The sixth marriage finally "took," and he was pretty happy with his wife and step-children for about 10 years, then that ended, too. He stayed in touch with us, on and off, all that time, mostly at the urging of his sister, my aunt. He never actually tried to run away, but he dragged his heels paying child support and was always in arrears.
Some people just should have kids. Some people just shouldn't be married.
I meant to type "Some people just shouldn't have kids."
browngrl77@8:46am said "child support never replaces the love of a good loving father. A "real "woman gives her child a father."
Amen! And yes, you place a lot of the burden on women, but "motherhood is a matter of fact, paternity is a matter of opinion." I am nearly 58, unmarried, no children. I'm sure the main reason is my early experiences observing my own family. But I'll tell you what my aunt always told me: There are worse things in life than being single, and that's being with the wrong man. There are 100's of good causes that your time and energy can be directed to, that will help the children who are already in this world. Marriage and children are only two components of a full life; they're not all of it.
I don't imagine that alot of these young women today are any different than I was back in the day.... and that was NAIVE AND SHORT SIGHTED AND JUST PLAIN IMMATURE!!!! And, with that I had 2 children and a marriage (because of pregnancy) where the ex went on to wife number two after 6 years (he's been remarried 3 times since.)
So, I was a single mom. Thank the universe my sons have become lovely men. I told my sons that they were wonderful and their dad was really missing out on how wonderful they were.
Sadly, now as adults, their father has made attempts for a relationship, but they are not interested. Its not that they hate him, its that he has disappointed them so many times over the years, they don't trust him, and frankly they don't really respect him.
Once my ex tried to tell me that it was the fault of wife number 2 that he didn't spend time with our sons.... I told him, sorry, but if someone had said to me, "gee I love you and want to be with you, just not your kids." Well, they would have seen my footprints on their back where I stepped on them as I walked out the door! He STILL doesn't get it, that it was the choice he made, period.
Field...let us know if you ever figure that one out. If someone can ever come up with a real, scientifically-verifiable reason why some men do that, I'm sure that there will be a Nobel Prize waiting for them in Oslo.
Some people say it's genetics. Men are "hard wired" to spread their genes and move on to the next mate, quickly, and let the mother raise the offspring. Keep the gene pool as diverse as possible. I call bullshit on that, simply because I know too many men that make it their absolute number one priority to take care of their kids after they split up with their spouses. One of my friends has actually taken a second job so that he can kick in a little more than he has to, every month, and he has since remarried and has a couple of kids from his new spouse as well.
Sometimes you get that old midlife crisis that kicks in. That happened to my father in law. After 25 years of marriage, he decided one day that he was going to divorce his wife, and leave California and move to Montana, where he quickly married someone else. Luckily the kids were all grown and out of the house when he pulled that one.
Some people argue that it's "nature versus nurture." Again...can't pin it on that one either. To use the old "my dad treated women like shit and abandoned his kids so I have a ready-made reason so I can do it too" just does not work either. I just know too many single and divorced dads, for which that reason does not hold any water.
Maybe some men are just destined to be irresponsible, immature, 45 year old adolescent assholes, that don't really want to acknowledge that their actions have consequences, and to be a real live grown-up, you have to live with shouldering the responsibilities which are present due to the decisions you have made during the course of your life. But enough about my deadbeat brother...
Maybe after that question gets tackled, maybe we can figure out the reason why women who get the shit beat out of them by abusive husbands keep going back to them.
The minute I find out that a guy is NOT paying child support and seeing that child I break up with him. I dont listen to their excuses. And I will not take care of kids that are not mine I have enough bills.
And yeah guys get jerked on visitations ...but hey take her arse to court. Pretty soon she will tire of going before the judge
There are too many irresponsible parents both male and female. They should both think of the possibility of pregnancy resulting no matter who says what. There are too many unwanted children already and too many damn people in the world.
Children didn't ask to be here. They need more than financial assistance. A sperm doner or an egg receiver aren't automatically good parents. I understand how one mistake happens with a pregnancy but I don't understand more than one. Always be prepared for the decisions you make.
Oh yeah and these men are just STUPID especially the one over 40 they actually think a younger woman really want them for their personality. NOoooooo men They only want your money.
Tjwash said,
"Maybe some men are just destined to be irresponsible, immature, 45 year old adolescent assholes, that don't really want to acknowledge that their actions have consequences, and to be a real live grown-up, you have to live with shouldering the responsibilities which are present due to the decisions you have made during the course of your life."
A-effing-men!!!!!!
I do agree with browngirl, as a childless black woman. However, even when one has been patient and done the whole marriage thing, relationships do fail leaving children in single parent homes.
In my landuage there is a saying, " the mother's crime becomes the child's". Explaining why men easily get enstranged from their children. We place a high value on children.
A man who abandons his children is seen as a failure in society. What such men tend to do, if they can afford to, is provide for their children from a distance. Its not enforced by law, men just do this as a duty and to clear their conscience. And since many traditional African religious tend to prescribe that one's afterlife is through their own children, it makes sense to take care of an extention of you.
My own dad left but he always returned to meet his obligations. And I highly respected him for that. And since my mother was unhappy we all wanted him to leave. He ended up stretching himself thin with his other family but you could see his intentions towards taking care of his children were genuine.
Were it becomes tricky in African societies is, later on people expect the older children to take care of the younger children the man fathered else where. They claim they are your father's blood and so you are oblidged to look after them. Not likely to happen in my case. But some people indeed do this. I can only, at most, take care of one, the youngest. That's as far as I can go bailing out the old man.
Its actually to the late Senior Obama's advantage that he has passed on. Its a common cautionary tale to men in many traditions. The abandonment of their kids who later become successful is a nightmare for most men. In my culture Obama's African family would be ridiculed. I am not sure how the Luo perceive this but I suspect they too are abit embarrassed by their son's actions.
I hate deadbeat dad's, but a lot of women are having babies by men who they know just aren't that into them or not that into them anymore. Beyonce said it right, if he likes it that much he'll put a ring on it. Everyone knows at least one woman who has had a baby as a last ditch attempt to keep a man around who already had one foot out the door. My best friend did this recently and I though she was smart. If you tell a man you are pregnant and you don't get a marriage proposal, he's not that into you period.No excuses or explainations needed. He doean't love, like or care about you enough. And if you go ahead and have that baby, you can expect serious problems down the line. I would never have discribed Beyonce as wise, but it looks like she layed down the law to Jat-Z and maybe that's what more women need to do.
Sad, but some many young women feel that they "need" a man to be complete and try to catch one with a baby. I am old enough that I remember when a man made a woman pregnant that he was supposed to marry her. Over the years I have watched that erode, but at least with a paternity test a man can be encouraged to pay. Babies should not be having babies, either as mothers or fathers. As a Society, it would behoove us to spread birth control harder, faster and further. A couple of years for a girl to grow into a woman would help, sometimes a girl's development seems to stop with that first baby AND then there are those girls that grow up really fast.
I worded for many years that had a very high percentage of women employees and they did not require much to qualify for employment. So what I have overheard in the lunch room is astonishing as well as saddening. In California the percentage (about 30%) of support does not get paid--which just happens to correspond the the percentage of fathers that are prevented from seeing their kids. Obviously, they are not the same ones.
I am an other woman and a step mother. I am still ashamed three decades later of the one, although my husband assured me then that the marriage was over before he began stepping out. His first wife had indeed moved out, but he was still married. (She moved back in right quick when she realized that he had found someone to pickup the baby sitter while he caught a plane for the other coast for his job.)
"Children are life's last greatest luxury, if people only knew." However so many people only consider them an irksome byproduct of sex and not a good thing in and of themselves until it is too late. Too many fathers try later in life to establish a relationship and so many times there is just nothing there.
One of my stepchildren will not speak anymore with their mother. She spent years trying to turn their minds against their father--when they were older she dropped them off at our house because it was complicating her love life. Try as we could we never could soften the blow for the one child. How can we as a society get children out of the role of blunt object to beat up the other spouse?
I am so glad that there is mandatory counseling required for a divorce. I cannot imagine that it does any good, but I like the spirit and maybe it makes for a better divorce.
Anony 2:18 and some of the others, you see this is the thing. I'm not trying to find excuses, but remember... most men operate by function, while most women operate by emotion. That being said, you can preach to some women in particular all day, but some bendajo sperm bomber will still find a way through that emotional red tape.
So, why do we keep putting the blunt on the knuckle head who happens to carry the evidence in her womb? Why can't we try something "new" and start pin pointing the leaking sperm carriers who don't seem to have a problem spreading the seed?
Now, I am fully aware of some women who are truly spiteful or believe in some kind of magical exemption from the wrath of losers, especially when the man is blatantly doing wrong to his previous ex-whatever and children all over the place. But even so, these women can’t get pregnant by themselves. Men too need to start using their upper heads and stop this irresponsible carelessness already. These type men are a big problem, we need to admit that, and maybe neuter them like the dogs. Like I said, let’s try something new.
BTW, I am a single mother by choice of one child, when I met her father he had none, we were both young and thought we were in love like idiots. I learned my lesson fast. The idiot didn't, he's paying child supp. to various people out his ying yang... and still looking to pay more because he can't stay his ass home at nights, or look a second job to occupy his idle time. Also, when I got rid of him eventually, due to his idiotness, he decided to "spite" me by ignoring his then only child (why do idiots love to do that, they only hurt their children if anything).
Either way, I am tired of paying my "little" tax contribution to help careless people who can't stop populating the world. I am ready to turn repuklican if this crap doesn't stop.
I am childless by choice. I have been with the same man for three yrs...have been asked to have his baby after the first yr...want to know my response? " I will have your baby AFTER the honeymoon" Men have been using that I" love you soo much I want you to have my baby" bullshit for ages, and we fall for it everytime, a baby and marriage are two totally diffrent things all together, and men know this. I grew up in the heart of North Philly were all of my friends were mothers before the age of 20. I was born on the welfare dole, I became a aunt at the age of 12,took care of my sisters children, watched the fathers walk out of their lives, had aunties tell me "i know you will be next"(at the age of 12 no less) If I didn't have those experiences maybe I would have fell for the okey doke. I am not looking for a pat on the back from or anyone . I am just stating facts. I never once said it was okay for men or women to not be responsible for their children.. I just focused on women more because we are more often then not, the ones that have to deal with the children when the fathers leave. We as women need to have our sh*t together before we have children. (someone please tell me what is so wrong with that?) Why are 70percent of our children born out of wedlock? And yet when a woman calls us out on our BS, she gets called "one of those woman." Trust me a am not bitter, I just feel that men and woman need to have better standards when it comes to picking mates. That's what is missing in our society, standards. If she got 3 kids by 3 different fathers, why are you even talking to her? If you don't know his momma, never met any of his immediate family, why are you sleeping with him? My own father was a deadbeat, he had 3 children by my mother yet he married a woman that had none for him.You can call me a condesending *itch I don't care but you can NEVER call me a FOOL..... so yes I do have it figured out, that's why I will become Mrs. Anderson come July 26,th 2009.
THANK YOU FIELD NEGRO, as I write this comment, my brother has been left to raise, two children on his own, one is a stepdaughter, the other is a son that look's nothing like my brother, but, my brother was forced to swallow his pride, and raise the child in spite of, and trust me that has taken much pride for my brother, my brother has been, humiliated, disgraced and was made to feel lesser than a MAN, and this was because my brother had a one night stand and his life has been hell since, he became entangled with a woman, that stripped him of his self respect, he has a older son that is the spitting image of my brother, and this son was semi put on the back burner, well to make a long story short, my brother married the woman he had the one night stand with, it was as if my brother walked around in a trance for SIXTEEN YEAR'S, well this is the SHOCKER my brother's WIFE KILLED HERSELF TWO WEEK'S AGO!!! and trust me it has been a living hell for my brother as well as the children he has been left to raise, and not to mention all the other family member's, that have had to step in and try to comfort my brother in his time of need, and all of this because of a one night stand, what a price to pay!
browngrl, I'm not trying to dispute some of the things you are saying. In fact I’ve always felt the same way to a certain degree.
However, I can’t help but to wonder if the motives surrounding your "opinions" might be disingenuous. It always amazes me how aggressively eager that one childless (black) woman always try to use this topic as some sort of delusional self seeking elevation with that same old fucking deadbeat-enabling script.
You're not even flattering yourself. No one is going to pat you on the back, and society still have a name for women like you.
1.What does society call "women like me"?
2. I am not looking for acceptance from anyone.
3. My opinions come from years of watching my people make the same stupid choices over and over.
4. I just want to say to those who were married to men/women that left and no longer want to be responsible for their children "keep ya head up",theres a blessing in the storm:)
not to be difficult but why would any woman (with or without children) be so eager to partner up with a man with kids?
Isn't dating a man with such financial obligations seem a bit unrealistic?
But my thoughts on your questions...
just because people become biological parents means they are emotionally mature to handle all the responsibilities that come with parenthood.
they are stuck in arrested development and prefer to stay there.
I sooo feel you star jones, I think many of our women have been so bamboozled by the media and our girlfriends. We begin to think there are no good brothers out there....so we lower our standards just to have a warm body in our bed. My cousin has 4 kids by three different women . And only one has him in court for child support. And has no job. He will NEVER be able to support all those kids equally, NEVER. But I bet as soon as those kids become teens all the mammas will come running for support,as soon as the system stops giving them ie. section 8, food stamps.( I am just talking about this particular case) LOL!j
Anon.4:57PM, sorry to hear that sad story. Geez, I feel like I am back at work. But all these great comments are telling me something: that we need to really do something about these sperm donors running around out here, and we need to educate these women out here about the perils of wrong choices. I know I can't do it; by the time they get to me it's too late. But some of you women out here can reach these younger ones and show them the ropes.
I'm kind of curious myself. What does society call women like Browngrl77? lol
One word: Trojan
I have a niece who is16 she got pregnant at 15. I asked her how are you going to take care of a baby since she cannot legally work a full time job, and you can't get an apartment in your own name legally.....she said and I swear it took everything not to knock the monkey sh*t out her........"I can get W.I.C. though" This heffa has sold her childhood for a f**king WIC check. :( ............you can't make this sh*t up
Anon...so sorry for your brother's pain & loss. I can't imagine how hard it must be...
As for the topic...3 things will clear up all aforementioned nonsense: personal responsibility, clear communication with young people about consequences and the ability to delay gratification.
As background, my father decided he didn't want to be a husband & father when I was 7, went to find himself (it was the 70s,what can I say...and yes, we are Black). As a young woman I had 2 kids with a man who really didn't want me or them but I am known for my tenacity (or stubbornness, call it what you will). I am now married and the mother of a toddler...at 40! My husband loves all 3 of his children and I am give thanks for that blessing every day. My older children's father has not seen them in 5 years and has never paid child support. I don't sweat it, or him He is missing out on a shred guitarist engineer and a beautiful robotics whiz with a lovely voice. And I know that his being gone impacts them, even when they don't acknowledge it. I know how I felt about being left. I only pray that the work & love my husband and myself put in will blunt the negative impact.
I haven't posted in a while, definitely keeping tabs on the Field though
I know someone like this. She's in the military, her husband and her had 2 kids and the dude left her for a stripper and he went to court and told the judge he doesn't care about the kids.
In this case it was religion. HE wanted to be the head of his family, rather than an equal partner, just like it says in the Bible. Unfortunately he didn't read the other parts, like love and support and so forth.
It's an experience being Black and American and leaving the U.S. to live abroad. It's embarassing the way Africans and other foreigners view us. You can blame the media to an extent, but with 70% out of wedlock birth rates and 30% unpaid child support in CA...what do you expect. Look, it's simple... my parents took the time to tell me that as a woman, the burdern, fair or not is on me, to raise and care for the child. The man CAN and OFTEN will walk away from you and the kid....completely. This may sound cruel, but we need to stop glorifying and rewarding the FOOLS who don't support their kids and keep popping them out without a marriage. Why aren't the "preachers, pastor, and leaders" talking about this. Oh that's right. They're largely part of the problem. Sixty years ago, this behavior was shameful. Hold your kids to a higher standard or don't have them at all. Don't let your son in your house until his obligatns to his children are met. Here's something offensive....encourage birth control or waiting until marriage. You can call me a Black elitist, flame away, but too many people don't learn from the mistakes of others. That's called FOOLISHNESS. We have enough fools walking around. Don't you want better for your kids than you had? I do! That's why I waited until after college and marriage to have kids. At least they're wanted, loved and have all their material needs met. The thing that pisses me off is relatives who didn't do what I did tried to stop me from getting married and call me other names that I'm sure you can imagine. I refuse to embrace or coddle these morally bankrupt people any longer. Just speak the truth...we might benefit from it.
Fustrated long rant...
I think it's just too easy to walk away today, from marriage, from kids, from everything. My father is 80yrs. old and my parents were married for 54 years before my mom passed. Most of the people around that age stayed married. Today there's no problem with getting a divorce, people do it all willy-nilly(my favorite phrase) and kids suffer because of it.
OMG....what a bunch of whinny MF's
Ladies, Ladies I've got one word for you to solve this problem.....
SWALLOW!!!!
Some people like to use the term "sperm donor" to describe a certain type of man but I say that the woman ALLOWED him to make the "donation".
Why would ANY woman want to have a baby by a man who obviously didn't want her for anything except sex? I know, he should have used a condom if he didn't want kids. But still, having a baby by a man who didn't want you for anything except recreational sex is beyond stupid, it's SELF-destructive.
You can't MAKE a man love something HE DIDN'T WANT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The best you can do is make him pay child support (if you're lucky) but money will NEVER take the place of love.
SWALLOW!!!!
or spit...LOL
For too many women it's about the money. They're not looking for love. They know the risks. They want a baby. They're willing to take the chances of a deat beat dad; or the possability of State Assist; or raising a child alone.
And to anon...what a douchebag you are! How about 'withdrawal' or 'pull out' jackass.
browngirl got it right. Seriously. What's wrong with women being smart and prudent? Like it or not, we're the ones that have to go through labor and take care of the kid. SEX MAKES BABIES.
Oh man. My parents split when I was 7. My father was a cheating husband, a fall-down drunk and emotionally unreliable, but he never disappeared and no one ever had to chase him for money. I never knew how good I had it. thanks Field. I ought to go call my Daddy right now. He's 71 and holding and I'm still a Daddy's girl.
I have to agree with one of the comments. I am a recently seperated father of twins girls. I left my wife, NOT my daughters, because she was a lying, spineless, hypocritical, thief. She (and her family) claim to be "Christians" but set out to try to destroy me because I could no longer stay with my wife. My "wife" and I had an agreement that the best thing to do is for me to leave and we did not have to go through the courts for "them" to tell me that I have to take care of my girls, yet, as soon as she did not get her way (I walked away from an argument, outside of the house) she told her crazy sister, then 2 days later, I get child support paperwork. Not only that, she told them that I missed 3 months of support although we were only seperated for a month. They garnished ALL of my money ($3000 a month). Because of her (and bitter sister) I am 3 months behind on credit card payments that we incurred during the marriage. The courts are designed to listen to the first person who comes crying through the door. I even went to court to show them that I could not afford the $2000 a month. Created a packet with letters and bills, sent it (3 days prior)Next Day FedEx. The day of the hearing, the child support hearing officer claimed "they never received the packet"... I was screwed!
The gist of this is that for some men, you're NOT leaving the children, you're just leaving the wife. I just wish people would see it that way instead of passing judgement on every father/mother who is paying child support. There are 3 sides to each story, her side, his side and the right side. I love my twins very much and would never think of abandoning them for anyone! All I ever wanted was her to be fair and honest about what happened.
BTW, the irony is that her bitter sister's husband just left her.Her being so vocal about destroying me played a small part in her marriage going to pieces... lol
I think we need to cut Browngrl some slack. She may sound sef-righteous or unforgiving, but she it telling the truth. I'm sure its all out of love too. The only thing I would advise is that its way too easy to just tell a young girl to be responsible when what she really needs is self esteem and hope. That is the most reliable contraception.
What i dont understand is how some men forget that having sex leads to having children. Women cant walk away from a child as easily as men can. As soon as they hear the words "im pregnant" its "thats not my baby..blah blah blah" and they disappear.
Ummm..did you forget the part about were you put your penis in her vagina and busted a nut???? Cuuuuuz last time i checked....babies are the end result from intercourse (unless of course you practice safe sex..but even still thats only like 98% effective.)
To anon...how about all the sperm donors and deadbeat dads try... Histerectomies!!! yaaay! some of yall dont need to be having kids anyways.
and to browngrl, i feel you. I'm a family support worker and i work with young moms everyday and most of them have that same attitude...until they see how much that WIC check is for. =/ smh.
Let me make a limited and circumspect little comment about this that no one had mentioned: As it concerns the roots of homophobia in the black community, one of which has been stated as a fear of not enough black men for the black women, might I say that whatever other critical needs there might be, it would not appear that a seed shortage it one of them, and that therefore at least the one particular root of homophobia might be usefully discarded?
No ulterior motives here, just a cheeky little observation. Now, I'm not going to suggest that homosexuality be encouraged, because as someone who wound up being that way in spite of many and sundry encouragements to the contrary, I genuinely don't think that this aspect of someone's nature is subject to persuasion. I have never been aware of anyone who's been argued into a state of tumescence, or of anyone who's been persuaded to change its source of inspiration. But at least we might be able to agree that the poor gays have not been draining so much of the sap as to cause a general shortage?
"To anon...how about all the sperm donors and deadbeat dads try... Histerectomies!!! yaaay! some of yall dont need to be having kids anyways."
Women can make the decision to NOT be cum dumps RIGHT NOW! Women don't have to wait around for men to do something most of them are not going to do.
Ladies, decide right now not to allow your vagina to be used as some man's cum dump. Problem solved.
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