Ahhh it's good to be home. Philly, in spite of it's bad rep, inspires me. There is just no other place like it. So here I sit, typing away, and still pissing off the racist and the trolls. ( BTW, please feel free to keep the hate e-mails and comments coming, but please try to be a little more creative in 2010.)
Tonight there is so much I could be blogging about. Danny Glover is dissing his O ness. Evander Holyfield is broke. Down in Tennessee, Nazi gear is all the rage. And here in A-merry-ca we still try to go all John Wayne on folks when things don't quite go our way. Still, I don't want to blog about any of that. Nope, tonight I want to blog about sacrifice. Yes sacrifice.
I would like to personally make a pledge of $1 to Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. It seems that things have been a little tough on old Rick and the mega church industry lately. So I want to do my part to contribute even though I am not a member, because I think that there is no better way to make sure that society functions smoothly than to make sure that folks can freely attend the mega church of their choice. If there is no church where will they go? Pastor Rick needs at least $900,000.00 pronto (no more than two days) or bad things will happen: Bills will go unpaid...(Didn't Oral Roberts- may his soul rest in peace- try this once?)
"I have thrilling news to share with you below but first some seriously bad news: With 10% of our church family out of work due to the recession, our expenses in caring for our community in 2009 rose dramatically while our income stagnated. Still, with wise management, we've stayed close to our budget all year. Then... this last weekend the bottom dropped out."On the last weekend of 2009, our total offerings were less than half of what we normally receive - leaving us $900,000 in the red for the year, unless you help make up the difference today and tomorrow."
I wonder what the "thrilling news" is? Yep, those half full offering plates can be a bitch.
....Oh wait, It's a miracle! The goal has been met. See, this is why I hate the Internet age, shit can happen right in the middle of your post. Sorry folks, apparently I was late with this one. Rick Warren, thanks to the generosity of his church members, is going to be just fine. (I guess I can keep my $1.)
One more mega church saved. I couldn't have imagined A-merry-ca without it.
72 comments:
Do you remember that record back in the day called "Stealing In the Name of Lord"?
There's a man,
On the corner,
Raisin' a congregation,
Sayin' that he's the one,
Brothers and sisters,
That's gonna bring us all salvation.
Sayin' that he's the one,
To make a way for,
He's gonna do it,
With no hesitation.
Sayin' step!
In the land,
Can you spare a dime?
I heard him say,
Step!
Right on up.
How you this evenin'?
Drop a buck.
People I tell ya,
What I've seen.
A?
Ain't much difference,
In what he's doin',
Good people,
For?
That man is...
(Stealin' in the name of the lord)
Sayin' God's gonna mess ya...
(Stealin' in the name of the lord)
Oh, oh, oh.
It's happenin' every day.
This man, he'll walk,
Up to ya,
And look ya in the eye,
Put his hand,
On your shoulder,
And tell ya,
A big fat lie.
He'll tell ya,
God's gonna bless ya, children,
If you put your faith in me.
Huh!
And he'll pass the tray,
While the choir's singin',
?in' My God To Me.
Step!
In the line!
Can you spare a dime?
I heard him say,
Step!
Right on up, good people!
Drop a buck.
That man is...
(Stealin' in the name of the lord)
That's what he's doin'...
(Stealin' in the name of the lord)
Comes confession time!
That's a time to spill your mind.
He sits back in his lazy chair,
And listens to ya testify.
When that's over,
He puts his hands on your shoulder.
Tells you,
ALL is forgiven.
The man can't be colder.
Step!
In the line!
Can you spare a dime?
I heard him say,
Step!
Right on up, good people.
Drop a buck.
That man is...
(Stealin' in the name of the lord)
Sayin' God's gonna bless ya!
(Stealin' in the name of the lord)
He's gonna save your soul!
(Stealin'! )
That's what he said.
(Stealin'! )
Pick your life up and make you whole.
(Stealin'! )
Yeah, that's what he said.
(Stealin'! )
This man will rob ya!
(Stealin'! )
Yes he will.
(Stealin'! )
He'll steal your money,
(Stealin'! )
And tell ya you don't need your money.
(Stealin'! )
Stealin!
(Stealin'! )
Stealin!
(Stealin'! )
Stealin!
[Fade]
Don't blame it on Jesus because he told folks in the word to beware of false...who are inwardly ravenous wolves." (meaning they're greedy, money-hungry folks--con artist) In addition, he warned you about hirelings and those type of folks. He didn't tell them to make church out of no business venture or raise money to build no mega churches. Nope, he sure didn't. He told them to go out in the highways and byways or stand on the rooftop and preach and teach his word. He didn't tell them to bring the money to the storehouse to buy the preacher no mansion or luxury car either. He told them to bring it to the storehouse to feed and clothe the poor with it.
That's why I like those little bitty small churches with small memberships.
Granny, how are you? You give me a whole hymn? This is why I love you. :)
Yes, I am guessing small churches are best.
BTW, I saw your comments under the other post. I will check out that link you sent me. Unfortunately I haven't had time to check my e-mails as yet.
And sorry about the trolls. Just don't feed them any of your good cooking. It will only fatten them. ;)
I'm doing great! I pray that all is well with you.
"Just don't feed them any of your good cooking. It will only fatten them. ;)"
LOL! I'll try not to. Besides which, I would rather speak blessings into people's lives if they let me.
@ FN:
I am so happy to know you got to save your dollar by waitng until everyone else sold their soul to this man (I DON'T have his book-knew my purpose before he wrote it...but I digress)
Anywho...yeah the mega church...Americans love everything mega... Mega church...mega jewels...mega rims...mega breast cancer walks (yeah I said it)...mega flat screens...mega fries...we just love mega don't we...?
When Rev. Ike died I heard people saying how sad they were...I was like...WTF??? Rev. Ike made his money off poor people (like this Rick dude...only he's mega).
I remember Rev. Ike said he could "heal" you if you just..."PUT YO' HAND ON DA RADIO" Richard Pryor paradied him well in Car Wash.
Yeah...Americans love mega everything. This is a real Prince moment...remember his song..."America"...
"Aristocrats on a mountain climb
Making money, losing time
Communism is just a word
But if the government turn over
It`ll be the only word that`s heard"
-Prince (1999 album)-
Peace.
~agape2010~
Compare to St. Joseph Social Service Center in my city. Basically it's Sister Jacinta & few other folks try to help a lot of homeless people. & they don't ask who's Christian. A former mayor said of Sister, "My only difficulty comes when she puts a placard on her shoulder and starts protesting .. ."
Bob:
The Catholic Church has always been big and good about helping the poor. They don't turn church service into a hustling hour with none of those $1,000, $500, $100...lines either like a lot of churches do, yet they feed a multitude of hungry people. Nor do they have an anniversity for the pastor's whole family every month to raise money to give to them.
I will never understand how the preacher is supposed to live in a mansion with a swimming pool, wear Armani suits, Liz Taylor size diamonds, eating steak & lobster & caviar, driving a Rolls Royce. While on the other hand, most of his members are driving a bucket or on foot patrol, barely have a roof over their head, and with nothing in their refrigerator but the light bulb and ice and some leftovers from last month they're trying to make stretch and last them for as long as they can.
Let some needy ask one of these big churches for help and they have to fill out a credit application for $5.
Please y'all don't get me started with my observations of these mega churches.
Field,
While I am not a fan of megachurch and do not believe Rick Warren is perfect, I do believe he deserves a bit of defense.
I certainly don't agree with everything he teaches, but I can see how he has drawn a membership of 40,000+. I live five minutes away from his church and have walked some of the ground of his 150 acre complex, I must say it is impressive what he has done and not to his personal gain.
Most of us are cynical when it comes to corporate religion or megachurches. But I suspect the guy is doing at least something right. There are multiple services styles to meet the preference of different people that go on at the same time, with all of them eventually getting the same sermon. There is a huge complex for youth only to recreate, hang out, worship.
It is impressive that knowing people who attend Saddleback, including my neighbor who was once on the pastoral staff--he left to start a smaller church, with Rick's encouragemen--asking for money is not something he has done on a regular basis. It is also impressive that essentially all of the donations for the $2.5million that he raised in one day did not come from the insiders, but from elsewhere. And most of those donotions were $100 or less.
True, only the good book has sold more than his, and thereby has made him rich. But I do find it refreshing that since that publication, he gave back to the church and it's minitries his entire salary since he has been pastor. At that time it would have been about twenty years worth. And no longer takes a salary. He still lives in a modest home and doesn't own a fleet of vehicles. While the countless changed lives as a result of his influence locally and worldwide is nothing unique, I'm not sure there are too many megachurch pastors who could give that testimony.
I am no Rick Warren, or Saddleback acolyte--have been there maybe twice in twelve years. Have not been drinking the Warren Wine or Saddleback Soda--but I don't think I'd be so quick to lump him with every megachurch pastor we know.
Just a different perspective.
Granny, I have that song!!I remember once years ago I was riding the city bus to work and there was this man taking his children to school on the bus,but he was bragging that his chuch had just bought their pastor an new Mercedes! I remember thinking this does not compute.
There's megachurches that do right: Trinity in Chicago (you recall the pastor there got hauled through the fire by the press during the campaign), Glide Memorial in San Fran, & 4000 member Cathedral Of Hope in Dallas that keeps growing (& which just happens to have a lesbian pastor).
If there's one common denominator among churches it is greed. It hit home when I traveled to Burma about 15 years ago.
Burma is a dirt-poor country, but they sell golf leaf at the temples to rub on the Buddhas. How much you wanna bet they scrape it off and resell it the next day? The coffers were full to the busting point. Jerry Falwell would have been jealous.
Rick Warren is a sick joke, but so are the Buddhists and so was Jesse Jackson when he was actually running a church. Same song, different lyrics.
Leviticus 20 13
Field you know how I feel about these folks. Warren is patted on the back for the charity work he does overseas but at home because of his narrow so-called moral agenda he fails to support social programs that would uplift his poorer brothers and sisters right here in the US. He and his lot have me scratching my head. How did Jesus become a Conservative?
Oh and he had the nerve to say that liberation and Black theology were not legit. They are more legit than his narrow interpretation. And yes I think his book on the Purpose Filled Life helped some folks but couldn't he accomplish so much more by standing up for economic justice, labor rights, civil rights, human rights and peace.
Brother they got this thing backward. Man you got me started early in the year lol
Bob, sorry it took so long for me to reply but my computer is at it again-acting up.
Yeah, I agree with you about two of the churches you named. Glide Memorial is out my way, and yes they have done a lot to help the poor. But this is my first time ever hearing about the Cathedral Of Hope in Dallas.
I went to a mega church out this way once. They were having a program with guest speakers from out of state that night. I felt like I was sitting at an auction listening to an auction Barker. (I think that's what they call those folks that call for the bids during an auction.) I'm serious! Someone was actually calling out certain denominations of money that they wanted people to give so fast until that is what he sounded like. I shook my head, got up, and left.
I believe in tithes and offerings but I don't believe in hustling folks. That's where I draw the line at because I know what the word says.
Yes Field there are some trolls on here and some racists. However, yesterday's blog had some good questions and some good challenges for you, and you never addressed them.
Just because someone challenges you or "calls you out" does not make them racist or trolling (while there are those too). Be careful to not mistake the two for they are very different.
It's the age-old I don't like what you are saying so I am gonna call you a racist bit.
Rick Warren has learned his craft well. He had Oral Roberts as a good teacher. Although, Roberts had a more dramatic flair with his plea for money. God was going to call him home if the church did not raise $8MM. I guess God was going to whack him and as one radio talk host said, God call in his debt a couple of weeks ago when Oral Roberts left this world. Roberts not only tried, he got the money, he knew how to do a work because his plea made national news. Imagine Peter Jennings actually had to report this from the anchor desk. What Rick Warren did is not new and I do not see this work going away anything soon. I would not give him one penny, and those people who gave the money should have giving it to an organization more worthy of Rick's mega church that would be St. Jude's Children Hospital for all the work it does with children's cancer and research. What is more distributing the fact that Rick Warren asked for the money, or that people were gullible enough to give it to him? Happy New Year, leaving for work now.
Filled Negro:
I had always believed that you were "A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT".
The fact that you did this post LATE, days after Rev Warren has announced that he took in $2.5M is EMBLEMATIC of what I had thought about you.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/01/megachurchs-final-tally-25-million-from-rick-warren-appeal/1
Let me ask you Filled-Negro and GRANNY:
1) Do YOU know what Rev Warren plans to do with this money? OR in your prejudice do you assume that it is going into his own pockets?
2) Since the previous reports that I saw indicated that the church planned to use the money to fund its COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAMS (feeding, housing, clothing and proselytization) - CAN YOU TELL ME HOW THESE FUNDS ARE OUT OF LINE? Or are you merely HATING?
3) Granny - Since Filled Negro is a self-described "Non-believer" yet Rev Warren believes that his SAVIOR IS JESUS CHRIST......can you show me where you have asked Filled-Negro about his SPIRITUAL WALK more times than you have hated on Rev Warren? YOU are a self-professed CHRISTIAN - isn't this what YOU are called to do?
4) Filled-Negro - Why do you hate on this paltry sum of $2.5 million given WILLINGLY by those who attend this church YET you have never met a TAX REQUEST BY THE GOVERNMENT that you didn't like -ESPECIALLY if the rich paid.
4a) IF this money came EXCLUSIVELY from people in the top 5% income bracket - JUST LIKE OBAMA is targeting - are you merely concerned that THE MORE MONEY THEY GIVE AWAY - the less that Obama and the Federal Democrats will have to CONFISCATE?
5) Can EITHER OF YOU document any prior FINANCIAL FRAUD linked to Rev Warren and the "Saddleback Church"? OR are you still PROFILING these days yet don't like when the POLICE do it?
Damm, I need a career change!
[QUOTE] I would not give him one penny, and those people who gave the money should have giving it to an organization more worthy of Rick's mega church that would be St. Jude's Children Hospital for all the work it does with children's cancer and research. What is more distributing the fact that Rick Warren asked for the money, or that people were gullible enough to give it to him?[/quote]
HennasPlace:
THIS IS STILL AMERICA - right?
People are FREE TO DO WHAT THEY DAMNED WELL PLEASE with their money. RIGHT?
What business of yours is it what they do with their own money?
If I pulled out a LONG LIST of:
* Singers
* Actors
* Rappers
* Athletes
and how they SQUANDERED THEIR MONEY for SELF-SERVING reasons - Do you think that I can trigger a reaction out of you?
HOW DO YOU KNOW that Rick Warren is not putting this money to EQUAL USE than what "St Jude's Hospital" has in its plans?
[quote]There's megachurches that do right: Trinity in Chicago (you recall the pastor there got hauled through the fire by the press during the campaign), Glide Memorial in San Fran, & 4000 member Cathedral Of Hope in Dallas that keeps growing (& which just happens to have a lesbian pastor).[/quote]
Bob - all of these churches just HAPPEN TO BE "Leftist".
I have written about "Glide Memorial" previously.
While they might be singing YOUR TUNE with respect to their community service - from what I see they make use of the bible as a "selective text". It is referenced only when it supports their agenda.
If they called themselves a "church" rather than a "CHRISTIAN Church" I would have no problem with anything that they did.
Let me ask you Bob - would you personally prefer a church that:
* That HAD A LONG, LONG soup line as proof of their commitment for SOCIAL JUSTICE - never "bothering" any of those who waited in line about their RELIGIOUS WALK?
or
* A church right next door who was serving the same SOUP yet their line was ominously SHORT because they not only "fed" the people's physical bodies they also nourished their SPIRIT by working to get them aligned with the words and actions of Jesus Christ?
IN SUMMARY - some of you all focus on what the "ESTABLISHMENT CHRISTIAN" should do in the way of service to others as a measure of his WORTH.
You don't seem to be able to ask anything of the "CHRISTIAN WAITING IN THE SOUP LINE" what he has done to HELP OTHERS as a CHRISTIAN.
His INFERIORITY is assumed.
You want him SERVICED more than you want him SAVING others. Having them to DENY THEMSELVES and prioritize other more important principles which in their denial has rendered them as such.
@Anonymous
Agreed!! I need to make that career change...soon.
@constructive feedback,
I read once..."when you practice the same religon as your enemy, you will continue to be a SLAVE"...
Rick Warren is a fat man who undoubtedly is using the money to enrich himself and his "church."
it's a bunch of bullshit, but the ignorant flock who support him, CF, you are correct--they can waste their money any way they want. except many of them need help and instead impoverish themselves to support this fake POS.
however, you also said of a person in a soup kitchen:
His INFERIORITY is assumed.
You want him SERVICED more than you want him SAVING others. Having them to DENY THEMSELVES and prioritize other more important principles which in their denial has rendered them as such.
....which is your own bullshit.
all people need help at some point in their lives. we are not assuming anything if we help the poor, other than they need it and we can give when we can. the tables can easily be turned.
what i hate is that the "religion" must be served with the soup.
i have read your posts now for months, and i do not understand much of what you write. i have absolutely no idea where you stand on most topics. your posts are so long and rambling, i am never sure what your point is--other than you clearly have too much time on your hands.
"I read once..."when you practice the same religon as your enemy, you will continue to be a SLAVE"..."
Nice quote. The thing is,the [un]constructive one doesn't mind being a slave. As long as there is order and his basic needs are met he will be fine.
"Filled Negro:
I had always believed that you were "A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT". "
Well this time blame it on Pastor Rick. He took my last dollar.
Doc L, Bob, et al. Thanks for the perspective.
"Anywho...yeah the mega church...Americans love everything mega... Mega church...mega jewels...mega rims...mega breast cancer walks (yeah I said it)...mega flat screens...mega fries...we just love mega don't we...?
When Rev. Ike died I heard people saying how sad they were...I was like...WTF??? Rev. Ike made his money off poor people (like this Rick dude...only he's mega)."
Agape, I feel you.
mellaneous said: "Warren is patted on the back for the charity work he does overseas but at home because of his narrow so-called moral agenda he fails to support social programs that would uplift his poorer brothers and sisters right here in the US. He and his lot have me scratching my head. How did Jesus become a Conservative?"
*clapping*
Treader, I would love to spend 24/7on the blog answering every ones questions and comments, but until I have Rick Warren's type of money that will not be possible.
Field,
If I were you, I'd save my dollar. Until Rick Warren is able to turn water into wine (and I'm not talking that Chris Angel shit either) he won't get my money. I mean do more than try to get some African thrown in prison homosexuality... heal the sick... raise the dead... do sumthin!
But anyway, did you hear that our boy racism has showed up again and is fuckin with his O-ness? Yeah, and this time he showed up in the form of a Democrat. Can you beleedatshit?
Barack Obama the shoe shine boy?
[quote]I read once..."when you practice the same religon as your enemy, you will continue to be a SLAVE"...[/quote]
Bang'n on that BEAST:
I must ask YOU to define WHO your ENEMY is then?
My enemy is IGNORANCE and BIGOTRY and thus I am striving to have some of the people on this blog to STOP praying in "Ignorance's Temple".
Bang'n on that BEAST::
You seem like an intelligent fellow.
Can you detail for me the LOGIC AND REASONING in which someone would seek:
* HEALTH CARE
* SOCIAL JUSTICE
from his ENEMY?
Would YOU accept a syringe that was full of some unknown substance that is to be injected into your veins from your ENEMY?
You see people - Its not that I disagree with you. You all have a right to believe as you will.
It is when I map your ACTIONS with your THEORIES I see massive holes.
[quote]...which is your own bullshit.
all people need help at some point in their lives. we are not assuming anything if we help the poor, other than they need it and we can give when we can. the tables can easily be turned.[/quote]
Maria:
IF YOU READ MY WORDS and garnered the understanding that I was saying DON'T HELP OTHERS - then your difficulties in understanding my words are more than the problems of MY WORDS.
I asked Filled Negro and others - to detail the plan that they had to SHORTEN THEIR SOUP LINE - not by denying people but by BUILDING THEM UP and making it so that they no longer have to COME TO THE SOUP LINE!!
What about this point did you not understand?
Some people seek to have people WORSHIP THEM.
Others seek to "put themselves out of business" by loosening dependence.
If the Christian believe that 'we were formed in God's image" then WHY has he not sought to tell the man who is down on his luck this very thing and thus seek for him to live UP TO his full potential by first DISCARDING the shackles that he puts on to hold himself down?
[quote]Until Rick Warren is able to turn water into wine (and I'm not talking that Chris Angel shit either) he won't get my money. [/quote]
RiPPa in your comedy you show your IGNORANCE.
What MAN on this Earth has ever been held to this standard BUT the "Christian Jesus"? (No offense to the Catholics and I am not one but their brand of Sainthood based on miracles is specific to their sect).
It is interesting that you withhold DOLLARS from Rev Warren based on some "How Many Bubbles In A Bar Of Soap" test YET you are inclined to WASTE your own money on all sorts of things that have no hint of community service or having people walk a righteous path.
Why don't you ask Barack Obama to "change water into wine" before you agree to give him any more of your taxes?
[quote]I mean do more than try to get some African thrown in prison homosexuality... heal the sick... raise the dead... do sumthin![/quote]
Interesting on two points:
1) You hate "racial profiling" yet you tar Rev Warren for the deeds of others - namely Black Africans
2) You ASSUME that a White American evangelist has more POWER over the laws of an African nation than does the LEGISLATURE who voted on the law.
Constructive:
Asking if this is America is a tenuous argument at best, particular when there is a North and South America and the last time I check, we were US Citizens of the United States. I just had to be little technical.
People have the right to know where the money is going before they give it as well. I think Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, the late Rev. Ike and Oral Roberts are from the same ilk feeding on the emotions of people are downtrodden and believe that their country isn't doing anything for them. I do not know if you are old enough to remember Jim Jones, but he was one nefarious character and that is an understatement. Rick Warren and Joel Osteen be as equally evil and not kill anyone. So you see Constructive, it is more just about the money but a more profound emotional damage these people cause. So it is distrubing to me, but I forgot that you think in terms of dollars and not necessarily sense.
CF, repeating your own words:
His INFERIORITY is assumed.
You want him SERVICED more than you want him SAVING others. Having them to DENY THEMSELVES and prioritize other more important principles which in their denial has rendered them as such.
sounds to me like you don't believe in charity. and it COULD BE that because EVERY OTHER word IS IN CAPS you aren't making sense, but that's not the only reason.
you don't have any rational arguments--that's the main reason.
If we're going to cast stones: whats the difference between him and some of these jack-legged senators running for congress?
everybody's got a hustle.
Field, give him $50 or $100. Alter the spelling of your name for this donation, and see what mailing lists you get on. It would be interesting, no?
@ Krystal Lite-
The difference is (in most cases) that Rick Warren and other mega church super stars are doing this under the guise of "properity religion".
This is new phenom in America where religious pretenders bilk millions out of people in the name of "God". They use the weakest and foolish people in the world to make their money under the guise of 'God told me so...and it's in the bible."
Now I read the bible everyday and I have yet to read that message...but I digress.
Those idiots on The HIll?...our elected officials?...they just flat out rob us in front of our faces or behind our backs...which is worse?...choose your poison.
Peace.
~agape2010~
Those idiots on The HIll?...our elected officials?...they just flat out rob us in front of our faces or behind our backs
Amen. To me its the same picture in a different frame. Religion and politics are strange bedfellows these days (separation of church and state my left foot!) peoples prejudices and hostility against the church and religion in general sometimes leads them to believe the politician to be less guilty when in fact they USE the very church they'll never attend as a stepping stone for votes.
All I can say is that they ALL will be held accountable and soon.
I however, refuse to easily let those who choose not to believe and a couple of bad apples in the church set the premise of what moi as an individual believes to be true when we were warned of the deniers and coming of these false profits...
constructive feedback said:
"to detail the plan that they had to SHORTEN THEIR SOUP LINE - not by denying people but by BUILDING THEM UP and making it so that they no longer have to COME TO THE SOUP LINE!!
If the Christian believe that 'we were formed in God's image" then WHY has he not sought to tell the man who is down on his luck this very thing and thus seek for him to live UP TO his full potential by first DISCARDING the shackles that he puts on to hold himself down?"
CF its interesting that you only see one side of the issue of poverty and want, while you accuse others of being doctrinaire and dogmatic, you too are guilty. You are right Christians should point out to folks who are struggling that they have potential to do better and to lift themselves up with the help of God. Actually many churches do a decent job of bringing people in and helping them to start over and to become more productive.
However the reason the soup line is so long is not simply because of individuals failings, but it is because of the failings of this society to provide economic justice and yes some times civil rights, so that every human being can live to their full potential. Many of the people that are in these lines --that you imply with all the self righteousness that you can muster --have actually been looking for work. Many want to work and in fact some in the soup line are working but aren't being paid enough to make ends meet.
Christians who are called to walk humbly with God and to love mercy are also called to do justice. And that means calling out institutions and barriers that prevent folks from fulfilling their human potential and that make it hard for them to provide for their families. You know whats happening. Many of the children in this country live in shelters and only a heartless jerk would think they should stay there or deserve to be there because of the ineptitude of their parents or because the parents are just down on their luck.
Too many children are inadequately educated through no fault of their own and often times the parents as well. Too many people are denied opportunity simply because they are not the right color or sex or because someone doesn't like their sexual orientation.
Too many folks are out of work because the system whose altar you worship at, decided it was not good for their bottom line. Too many workers are bringing home meager wages, forcing them to go to food pantries because the bosses have to make thousands time more.
Too many folks are sleeping in the streets because we live in a society that sometimes values the lives of humans over animals. And I don't care if he is the laziest son of a gun in the world, CF I think he ought to be in a house and not left to starve.
Too many folks have lost their housing because of unscrupulous business practices and yes some because they bought into a fake dream that said, 'you aren't somebody unless you own a house.' Some of these silly preachers sold this to too many of their congregants who simply couldn't afford a house and too many greedy brokers signed them up.
Too many folks are without health care and have been tricked into believing that universal health care is a bad thing. Too many folks have gone broke simply trying to pay their doctors bill.
People are dying in Afghanistan and Iraq and Pakistan because US imperialism need for power and resourses has to be fed.
CF if indeed there is a hell I think it will be reserved for folks who sit back and blame the victim while the vultures pick their bones. If indeed there is a hell I believe it will be reserved for those who sided with this system of oppression and exploitation.
Conservative my behind!!!!
Granny (missed you lady!) @1:04 and mellaneous
LET.
THE.
CHUCH.
SAY.
AMEN!!!!!!
I feel like everythang is gon be alright this mornin!!
ohhh yass!!!
@mellaneous: Well said! People who subscribe to the ideological leanings the likes of CF, are who I like to refer to as MORAL COWARDS. Sadly, they'll never understand their flaws because their issue is more pathological than they even realize.
Nice quote. The thing is,the [un]constructive one doesn't mind being a slave. As long as there is order and his basic needs are met he will be fine
- - - - - -
@ Field,
They are called "Prepetual Children"
- - - - - - - - - -
@Constructive feedback
The enemy are those who my ancestors fought against aboard The Good Ship Jesus Christ.
"..People who subscribe to the ideological leanings the likes of CF, are who I like to refer to as MORAL COWARDS. Sadly, they'll never understand their flaws because their issue is more pathological than they even realize."
"Moral Cowards". I like that.
@ Field,
As my Grand Father would say ..."It is, what it is"....
Keep the heat going in 2010!!!
[quote]I do not know if you are old enough to remember Jim Jones, but he was one nefarious character and that is an understatement.[/quote]
HennasPlace
I recall when the story broke.
Can you detail for me the similarity between Jim Jones and Olsteen or Warren?
Over the past 5 years more people amassed in a large auditorium listening to a man emotionally drawing upon them with his words have been KILLED during and after Hip Hop concerts than at Mega Churches.
Have you ever asked yourself WHY you are so much more prone to attack MEGA CHURCHES?
Why are they the SUPERIOR threat to you?
If they "win" what do you LOSE?
[quote]sounds to me like you don't believe in charity. and it COULD BE that because EVERY OTHER word IS IN CAPS you aren't making sense, but that's not the only reason.
you don't have any rational arguments--that's the main reason.[/quote]
Maria:
Could you tell me what BELIEVING in charity is?
If I "DO" charity but don't BELIEVE in it - does this sit well with you?
If I hand out more MONEY to the needy than the next man who has a heart felt BELIEF and dedication to his work while I have CONTEMPT for everyone who comes to my Soup Kitchen despite helping 4 times as many people - WHICH would satisfy you more?
I get the feeling that YOU would pick the guy who gave more handouts.
The reason why I say this is because my observation of people who think like you is that you care more about being SERVICED than you do about HOW this service was obtained. As long as the person was fed it matters not that he was not EMPOWERED in his foraging skills.
As a Christian, liberal and a conscious Black man, I leery of the mega-church/prosperity ministry movement overall and would be glad if guys like Rick Warren were forced out of the lime light and it a model of discipleship and Christian ethics shown by the first century believers. (though I loved 'A Purpose Driven Life'. )
As a liberal whose primary driver is economic justice and proud Black man of conscious -- these ministries feed into everything that's wrong with America to a blistful extreme -- want of wealth and hatred of the dreaded 'other'. Jesus loves you if you've a Mc Mansion in the 'burb, vote Republican and don't like queers or immigrants. These churches have long abandoned a gospel of social justice. You're not gonna catch TD Jakes or Eddie Long demanding justice for Jenna Six or Katrina victims. But they'll break their own necks telling you how bad the queer are. And to add insult to injury, alot of the pulpit pimps have built their fortunes on the backs on the most destitute amongst us.
What's more upsetting is that these House Negroes are riding expensive cars and strutting in bad suits while the Black men in their communities are slowly dying at their doorstep.
As a Christian, I honestly have to ask how can one be spiritually fed in a stadium size revival every Sunday. People grown in small to medium size churches where they can hear the Word and grow with other believers in intimate relations. Church is no good when the pastor or none of his/her lieutenants know your name or have visited your house. And its certainly not worth going if virtually no one except your family notices when you're not there.
I highly doubt TD Jakes is gonna pray with my Aunt Margaret before her surgery as a matter of sheer logistics. (though he'll definitely 'lay hands' on Tiger, Evander or whatever superstar coon walks through his Houston stadium doors). But, a pastor with 300-400 members can definitely break bread and pray before you under the knife. Eddie Long isn't gonna share the word with your cousin Pookie facing 20 years.
So to me, if one or two of these giant farces on Christianity fall into the sea of American fads in 2010, I couldn't be happier. Maybe folks would be forced to go a local church and meet their neighbors. Maybe can start treating church like a cornerstone of community and not a night a the Lakers. And this is from a guy who attend a 5000+ member church for 3 years(though maybe 1500 max showed up regularly).
Mellaneous:
Though I disagree with EVERY BULLET POINT you just wrote I have MORE RESPECT for you in your articulate of your views than the "rock throwers" who then run behind the building afterward.
Do you mind if I reframe every point that you have just made?
You just articulated:
* Housing
* Jobs & Salaries
* Civic Order
* Culture
* Educational Quality
* Nutrition
* Shelter
* Health Care
* War
* National Economic distribution
Here is where I disagree with you.
You rebuke AMERICA yet you are making reference to a STANDARD OF LIVING that is obtained through Western Capitalism - which you appear to rebuke.
IS IT that the 'homeless family' has no HOUSE or that this group and another group don't come from a SOCIETAL STANDARD which says that two families should form under one roof regardless of the cramped conditions - so that ALL RECEIVE SHELTER?
Do we have a "lack of job opportunities" and a lack of teachers and nurses OR have the people who are unemployed WITHIN THE COMMUNITY have a STANDARD OF LIVING requirement that TRUMPS their will to work at a lower wage so that abundant LABOR resources might be applied to the challenge at hand and thus the EDUCATIONAL QUALITY that you just criticized might be addressed?
I can go on Mellaneous but I think you get the picture.
You are in a conundrum. In order to move past the present hole that you are in YOU are going to have to convince the people who will ultimately receive the biggest benefits of their PRESENT sacrifices in the future that they are the one's who need to act more SOCIALISTIC
You see Mellaneous - my problem is NOT with "Socialism". It is a necessary tool for a people to focus their resources for common goals.
My problem with Black QUASI-SOCIALIST PROGRESSIVE-FUNDAMENTALIST Racism Chasers is that you all seek to apply your FRIENDS AND FAMILY PLAN at the NATIONAL LEVEL using the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT as your billing and redistribution agent. When someone resists your CONFISCATION EFFORTS it is THEY who are called GREEDY. You see yourself as altruistic and thus justified.
What you NEED TO SEE is the perversion of the fact that as you all gain more control over more LOCAL INSTITUTIONS (public schools, city halls) and thus control over the social, cultural, academic and 'law and order' you are STILL not able to leverage these key institutions for your benefit. Instead you look NATIONALLY to obtain the financial resources (created by the CAPITALISTIC IMPERIALISM that you hate) to fund your quasi-socialism.
In this "Multiple Taxpayer Paid Health Care" scheme Mellaneous - tell me HOW MANY MORE PRE-MED STUDENTS will the public schools that you now control generate as you give consciousness to the people about the importance that they play in delivering medical services to the people? Will you even ask them to limit their SALARY demands so that there will be more resources to go around? OR will the GOVERNMENT impose this?
As much as you all hate corporations the truth is that you seek POWERFUL GOVERNMENT ENFORCEMENT in the very same role. Forcing people to do what they would not otherwise do for SELFISH reasons.
Sadly "self-development" and motivation are the two things that get beat out of a person who lives under Socialism.
(Do you understand me a bit more Maria?)
Summary: Many of you want to be SERVICED.
I, by contrast see the importance of having THE MAXIMUM among of RESPONSIBLE ADULTS in the society MANAGING THE HUMAN RESOURCES within the "calling circle" so that the desired STANDARD OF LIVING is obtained on the backs of the people in the group.
Some of you see this as "asking of the VICTIM".
[quote]As a liberal whose primary driver is economic justice[/qutoe]
LaCoincidental:
As we look at the major metro areas that are the MOST LIBERAL BEACONS in the United States - do YOU see a lot of "Social Justice" that is taking place in these areas where the CONSERVATIVES have cleared out?
I notice that there is a vein of ANTI-AUTHORITY running through most Progressive-Fundamentalists.
Yet when YOU RUN THE SHOW - instead of bringing forth this ELUSIVE JUSTICE - you merely EXPAND YOUR DOMAIN to GO chase after your authoritarian enemy where ever he departed.
LaCoincidental -
Let us match Warren up with Jay Z, Lil Wayne or Lady Gaga - do you see any more DEEP SPIRITUALITY among the later group?
Why is it that the former is more prone to attack by you? This DESPITE the fact that the later has far more money in their coffers.
Get this L.I. the building built by Warren is owned by his church and it is shared by THOUSANDS on Sundays, Wednesdays and throughout the week. It is a part of the community culture.
TI, JZ and Wayne RENT auditoriums around the nation and the balance of their money IS SHARED BY NO ONE. Their "missionary" trips to Europe or Africa SAVES NO SOULS!!!!!
Why then do you reserve your INDICTMENT for Jakes AND Warren and Dollar but these others with no grounding of their words escape your condemnation?
WHAT REFERENCE can we turn to in which you can go to Lil Wayne and tell him that his WORDS are not in line? Surely you can go to Jakes and tell him using a 2000 year old reference.
[quote] These churches have long abandoned a gospel of social justice.[/quote]
One of you please. I beg you.
DEFINE what "Social Justice is".
More importantly DEFINE IF the "lowest man in the society OWES YOU" SOME OF IT?
[quote] You're not gonna catch TD Jakes or Eddie Long demanding justice for Jenna Six or Katrina victims.[/quote]
L.I. - The "Jena 6" is a raw subject with me. Their "justice" is that someone from the hood has not killed them yet based on their lifestyles.
As far as Katrina - the biggest INJUSTICE rendered upon them is that THESE PEOPLE were ALLOWED to live in a "bowl" that is UNDER FREAKING SEA LEVEL!!!!
Let's tie their fate in with GLOBAL WARMING. Why would anyone in their right mind rebuild the Lower 9th Ward IF Global Warming is going to cause this area to be under water within the next 60 years?
WHO is violating their JUSTICE with the zoning there L.I.?
I am a CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE man who doesn't believe that they can walk on water when it floods and thus I see the need to mitigate their exposure to risk.
WHO should take the hit when "Social Justice" called "The Right of Return" (to get enough Black voters back in town to help the machine to win back their loses) exposes them to DEATH by drowning?
Are the murderous Street Pirates violating your notion of Social Justice?
CF said:
The reason why I say this is because my observation of people who think like you is that you care more about being SERVICED than you do about HOW this service was obtained. As long as the person was fed it matters not that he was not EMPOWERED in his foraging skills.
you don't know how i think and you have totally twisted what i said. i don't care about "being serviced (?!)" and saying i don't care about empowering the people i might serve?
totally irrational and disconnected thoughts and statements. untrue as well!
[quote]totally irrational and disconnected thoughts and statements. [/quote]
Maria:
The problem that I have has less to do with "disconnected thoughts" than your goal posts having wheels on the bottom when it comes to me trying to kick a field goal.
Can I print your words out and paste them on my wall:
[quote]Rick Warren is a fat man who undoubtedly is using the money to enrich himself and his "church."[/quote]
CF:
First of all, I'm a former Bible Study teacher and trustee (sexton for Catholics). I study my Scripture regularly. I'm a liberal and care for the poor because Christ did. Jesus again and again, taught the disciples to forsake excessive wealth and fame for the greater glory of His Gospel and Sacrifice. So before you write me off as some agnostic mau-mau whiner who hates the church -- think before you but your foot in your mouth.
quote:
Let us match Warren up with Jay Z, Lil Wayne or Lady Gaga - do you see any more DEEP SPIRITUALITY among the later group?
Dude that makes no sense. The former is a man of the cloth the later are a bunch of pop stars. Of course the later three have done and in the case of Weezy and Gaga, still a lot of rather inane dear I say unholy things.
The difference? Its not Hova's job to represent the principles of Christ to the common man. Lil' Wayne's paycheck isn't dependent upon leading folks to Christ. Its most certainly Rick Warren's job, as well as the task of TD Jakes, Jamal Bryant and the other denziens of TV preachers to preach the Gospel through thought, word and deed. In Scripture, a priest is always held to higher standards than the world. What's next? Comparing Joyce Meyers to Pamela Anderson?
As far as Katrina - the biggest INJUSTICE rendered upon them is that THESE PEOPLE were ALLOWED to live in a "bowl" that is UNDER FREAKING SEA LEVEL!!!!
Let's tie their fate in with GLOBAL WARMING. Why would anyone in their right mind rebuild the Lower 9th Ward IF Global Warming is going to cause this area to be under water within the next 60 years?
WHO is violating their JUSTICE with the zoning there L.I.?
First of all -- the injustice is that these people were allowed to drown and die for 5 days before the president bothered to fly over. Second, the issue isn't that these people live below sea level, the issue is that American citizens were treated like war refugees in a nation they paid taxes in, were shot at by their neighbors when desperately seeking dry land and food.
And my point still stands -- unless its 'Gonadal Politics' (queers, abortion or whatever gets old church ladies in a huff), sucking up to Hollywood types or fattening their pockets, the jiggabos aren't lifting a finger. Let's talk about the fact that many working class community were purposely built on brown fields -- toxic waste dumps. Babies literally born deformed because the State EPA didn't tell Big Momma or Uncle Joe that their modest home is built on old junkyard. Or the fact that guys like Jamal Bryant and TD Jakes live like the fore mentioned rappers while building their churches in the poorest ghettos of America.
And whether its below sea level or not, how would you like to have your home washed away and the government stuff you into a football stadium with several thousand of your neighbors for weeks because its too cheap and callous to help? Or hire paramilitary troops trained in anti-terrorism for to police your community? Or to discovered that your home and community could have survived if your government weren't skimping on duties since the Clinton years?
You practice the type of "Christianity" I despise, 'I got mine, get yours, N**a!!' That's not Christ, that's Ayn Rand. Wake up!! Modern American conservatism is the greatest lie perpetuated on the American middle class since the sinking of the Maine.
Well said LACoincidental, cosign 100%
yes you can.
and LAC i believe you and CF agree more than you think, as you can't defend the policies that have allowed poor people of all colors to live in unhealthy conditions.
and he's saying that exactly.
maria, yes and no. Yes, we both agree that opportunistic leaders and ineffective policies have lead to systemic failure within the Black community.
The difference is that I fundamentally believe in a strong social safety and that a truly Christian nation would ensure the care for society's most vunerable.
CF unfortunately believes that the great evil of American society is not the erosion of the social safety net or corruption within our government, but the concept of social safety net and modern social-democratic government itself.
the priests are gonna have fun tonight
they are rounding up some boys
they won't be singing in the choir
but they're gonna make some noise
pedophilia is called a venial sin
but it's just sex without consent
the Catholic Church wants you to think
that it has been Heaven sent
Oh heavenly father with wisdom
and your divine grace
help me hold this altar boy
and keep him in his place
the Vatican is an awesome wonder
festooned with incredible art
the Pope may not be a pedophile
but he's certainly played his part
shuffling all the priests around
was the substance of their game
and now they will forever suffer
the consequences of their shame
the question left to ponder
those thousands in St Peter's square
do they really not know
or do they just don't care
Mellaneous your comments touched that fire inside of me the most because it was the heart of the Lord speaking. All of you made some pretty good points. When I signed a few minutes ago and read all of y'all comments it reminded me of the first time I ever came to this blog and what made it so great and unique.
CF:
Scroll back up CF and please tell me where I said anything about Rick Warren. I think when you scroll back up you'll find that my comments were about mega churches whose pastors are driving Rolls Royce, living in mansions, etc., while their members are poor and barely surviving. Correct me if I am wrong but I was making general statements.
"Granny - Since Filled Negro is a self-described "Non-believer" yet Rev Warren believes that his SAVIOR IS JESUS CHRIST......can you show me where you have asked Filled-Negro about his SPIRITUAL WALK more times than you have hated on Rev Warren? YOU are a self-professed CHRISTIAN - isn't this what YOU are called to do?"
Let me ask you a question CF. When did God whisper in your ear and tell you what I am called to do and give you explicit details of my spiritual job description? Wouldn't God let me know first before he tells you?
When Jesus went to a city and the people did not have a heart to receive his message, he didn't force them to hear it. You see, that's one of the major problems with some of our church folks--shoving Jesus down their throat, which results in shoving them further away from him instead of bringing them to him. Jesus didn't tell not one of his apostles to shove his message down people's throats. Jesus was a gentleman.
My bible tells me "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me DRAW him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
So don't you tell me what I am supposed to do because I know the WORD. You need to worry about working out your own soul salvation and pray that the Lord sends someone your way to give you a word.
BTW, CF:
I don't know what to make of your comment about the soup lines. Your comments sort of gave me the impression you have a disdain for soup lines. People who are hungry are being fed in those soup lines--children, and women. BTW, Glad Tidings does give them the word along with a meal. Just about all soup lines do that. Nevertheless, wouldn't it make better sense to feed a person that is hungry first and pray for them and give them the word after their belly is full? Because when a person is hungry and stomach is growling, their mind is on what they gone eat. A fella can't concentrate on a empty stomach and they starving.
I don't know what bible you reading, but mines says "For ye have the poor always with you" and to defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy."
You sort of remind of the rich man and Lazarus. All Lazarus wanted was a few crumbs off the rich man's table. The bible said that someone would take and throw Lazarus down at the rich man's gate. The rich man was giving all those elaborate parties for all of his rich friends while Lazarus sat at his gate. It said that the rich man was dressed in expensive clothes to the tee--all sharp and things. While the dogs was coming along and licking Lazarus's sores.
Now let me break that down for you CF, because this message is STRICKLY for you. (wink)
Those dogs that came by licking Lazarus's sores represented people who badmouthed him and just like some of these folks today,"He need to get a job. He needs to pull himself up by his bootstrap, etc.," who stereotype and assume. Or walk by a homeless person and look down on them like they're dirt or subhuman, and treat them bad.
The sores represent the hurt from the wounds inflicted by those people badmouthing him. When it said that some would bring Lazarus to the gate and throw him down there. That symbolic for Lazarus needed a little HELP! He was cripple! Its many poor people out there that are crippled in their situation. Not everyone is homeless because their on drug addicts or crazy or irreponsible.
CF, you know I love you but you sort puzzled me with your soup line comments.
CF:
Here is some good advice for you so you can have peace of mind:
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
[quote] Jesus again and again, taught the disciples to forsake excessive wealth and fame for the greater glory of His Gospel and Sacrifice.[/quote]
LaCoincidental:
IF you understand no other point that I have wrote PLEASE understand THIS ONE!!!!
Do you see your CIRCULAR REFERENCE that you slide in?
You make note of JESUS' demand that his disciples eschew EXCESSIVE WEALTH yet this does not stop YOU from REFERENCING your own notions of the STANDARDS OF LIVING that your SOCIAL JUSTICE theories are based on.
Thus when YOU make use of the POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS of America to CONFISCATE wealth from others - YOU think of yourself as a benevolent man who is going after the apostate! Instead you are merely USING YOUR RELIGION to achieve a POLITICAL end - no different than the RIGHT WING EVANGELIST that you condemn.
[quote] I fundamentally believe in a strong social safety and that a truly Christian nation would ensure the care for society's most vunerable.[/quote]
L.A.C.:
The key problem with your analysis is that YOU COULD NOT SAY "I believe in:
* A strong city
* A strong county
* A strong COMMUNITY
The reason is because LITTLE of your ECONOMIC/CULTURAL/ACADEMIC notions of social justice is contained at the LOCAL LEVEL - where WE ALL LIVE!!!
Your disposition merely provides cover for your ideology to make its run at the NATIONAL TAKE OVER politically. Despite "taking over" Philadelphia (where I am from) with a favorable POLITICAL array this place is no more able TODAY to take care of its key institutions than it did when the "oppressor" was in charged. This DESPITE the claims of what would be the case IF we voted them out.
I see this nation as a NETWORK OF LOCAL ECONOMIES. This is where the bulk of our production comes from. YES we have national economic policies (The Fed, etc) but the bottom line is as it always has been: People's standard of living is most determined by their LOCAL conditions. This is why Blacks moved from the South to the North, etc.
Where did no get this NATION construct? Is it "OF GOD"? What about the people in San Diego who live closer to Mexico than they do to New York? Does GOD say that since they are in a DIFFERENT NATION that the are less deserving of help?
Your claim of NATIONHOOD as the key arbiter of "social justice" is merely a MAN MADE notion.
I respond that LOGISTICALLY the LOCAL COMMUNITY CONSTRUCT is more of a reasonable way to drive people forward toward the full realization of their SOCIAL JUSTICE.
Who was it on this very thread that panned MEGA CHURCHES because the pastor doesn't have an intimate knowledge of the individual members?
WHY THEN is not the very same thing the case in the nationalized, BOIL THE OCEAN schemes that you prefer?
This permanent outward struggle for National/Continental/Hemispheric and GLOBAL change is merely a BOIL THE OCEAN scheme that affords you to assume the milieu of the PERMANENT STRUGGLE while never having to own up to the LOCAL RESULTS in the places that you have already "conquered".
It is ANTI-HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT and thus unsound.
You prefer STRUGGLE over MANAGEMENT.
L.A.C.
You are merely a LEFTIST version of the people you despise.
[quote]The difference? Its not Hova's job to represent the principles of Christ to the common man. Lil' Wayne's paycheck isn't dependent upon leading folks to Christ.[/quote]
YOU DON'T GET IT DO YOU?
THE PROBLEM IS that the Progressive-Fundamentalist SEEKS TO HOLD "AUTHORITY" accountable!!
At the same time LIL WAYNE and the average Black Street Pirate depicted in the Philly Inquirer article HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS UPON THEM!!!!
Do you see L.A.C. - YOUR PROBLEM is not your lack of ability to SEEK SOCIAL JUSTICE from those who have POWER. INSTEAD the fatal flaw is that the "rank and file" are NET CONSUMERS that you hope to SERVICE with your BLESSINGS!!!
What about the police man or the STREET PIRATE is different in his capacity to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY but for one attended the POLICE ACADEMY and was given a metal badge and a gun from the GOVERNMENT?
What is the young man from the community who has turned into an ASSAILANT bound to LIVE UP TO? When HE violates someone else's SOCIAL JUSTICE, L.A.C. - when do YOU protest against him?
[quote]In Scripture, a priest is always held to higher standards than the world.[/quote]
You need to LIFT YOUR EYES out of your book and see what real RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT DEFINED INSTITUTIONS!!! We are looking at the UNBRIDLED who are KICKING IN YOUR DOOR and taking your FLAT SCREEN TELEVISION because THEY DON'T GIVE A WHAT!!!
Do you know how many churches have been broken into in metro-Atlanta this past Christmas season? WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR RELIGION L.A.C.?
[quote]First of all -- the injustice is that these people were allowed to drown and die for 5 days before the president bothered to fly over. [/quote]
L.A.C. - If I take clips of the 1927 flood in the SAME AREA and show you that despite the SAME FLOODING the modern day Katrina folks got off much better - would this make you see that FLOODING HAPPENED BEFORE BUSH? (Which is your real target)
If I suggested that while Katrina was a blunt event - that FAR MORE PEOPLE live a "drip by drip" Katrina each day yet THOSE WHO FEED THEM AT THE SOUP LINE EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIVES have FAILED TO EMPOWER THE PEOPLE but instead empower THE GOVERNMENT TO SERVICE THEM - does this matter to you?
In your view BUSH'S AIR FORCE ONE was more POWERFUL than the thousands of cars that streamed out of town with ONE OR TWO EMPTY SEATS , them having left their neighbors behind. Tell me what is magical about this airplane L.A.C.?
[quote]the issue is that American citizens were treated like war refugees in a nation they paid taxes in, were shot at by their neighbors when desperately seeking dry land and food. [/qutoe]
Stunning. Let me ask you L.A.C. - when you see people in N.O. getting KILLED TO-DAMNED-DAY where there is NO FLOOD does this temper your outrage?
When you see housing policies in which people who had taken residence in PROJECTS that were originally cast as "Temporary Housing" for those in TRANSITION only to hear of a woman who lived there for 32 years and now as they raze the GOVERNMENT facility - SHE IS NO MORE ABLE TO STAND TODAY than she was when she first set foot in the projects - WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU?
What if someone sat in YOUR CHURCH for 32 years and was no more capable of a Christian today than when they were in need of a healing VISION? Would YOU seek to extend their time in the church? OR WOULD YOU START INSPECTING THE CHURCH and the DAMAGE that it is doing by SQUANDERING THE POTENTIAL?
[QUOTE]
You practice the type of "Christianity" I despise, 'I got mine, get yours, N**a!!'
L.A.C. - the feeling is mutual.
You practice RELIGION.
I practice righteously inspired HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT.
The same people who seek to avoid the "LITERAL INTERPRETATIONS" of the bible in relation to societal challenges that we face lest someone be called a FUNDAMENTALIST now seeks to render a more exact reading of it against their adversaries.
When the SYSTEM that the masses are allowed to live under because of ALTRUISTIC people like you who don't see them as EQUALLY COMPETENT HUMAN BEINGS, able to bear the equal burden of RESPONSIBILITY becomes fully entrenched within their lives YOU ARE AT YOUR STRONGEST.
Instead of "I got mine....." YOU practice "I will feed you brother and from this you will be eternally appreciative of ME".
I see SERVICING in your ministry.
I see NO "build up" of MAN!!!
[quote]Modern American conservatism is the greatest lie perpetuated on the American middle class since the sinking of the Maine.[/quote]
L.A.C.:
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Detroit?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Chicago?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Cleveland?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Buffalo?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Milwaukee?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Newark?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Philadelphia?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Baltimore?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in DC?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Atlanta?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Miami?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Birmingham?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in New Orleans?
WHERE is the "CONSERVATISM" in Memphis?
The ONLY FORCE that is not at FAULT in your world, L.A.C. is the PREVAILING POWERS that the people actually LIVE WITHIN on their day to day basis. Instead you chase THE far off SUN because of its purported AUTHORITY over them.
Again you have made CONSERVATISM the ESTABLISHMENT AUTHORITY that must be slain!!! Nothing about the previous VICTORIES of the local progressive establishment that defines the order of the day.
You can't bear to see that WHEN YOU BECOME THE ESTABLISHMENT over a domain that the people are suffering within - INSTEAD OF CURES........you merely hit the road again on an EXPANDED CRUSADE to find more WINDMILLS to chase after in attempts to finally secure SOCIAL JUSTICE and have it RAINED DOWN UPON THE IGNORANT.
They need not CHANGE. The OUTSIDE FORCE OF AUTHORITY ONLY NEED CHANGE to provide for the elusive FIX that you seek.
YOU have the EMPTY SOUL sir.
Amazing thought provoking debate going on here! Good to see things get back to normal around here!
LC, thanks for the shout out!
CF, i am beginning to better understand your position, and i agree with much.
all of my efforts are focused on my city--local efforts--and state, where i am active before AND after elections and issues have seemingly run their course...i am a volunteer when i can and advocate for for the homeless through PRIVATE (as well as government) investment in low income housing, etc., being fought by my monied, elitist, neighbor NIMBY's.
and i do not attend church...or give money to any. raised catholic, i left long ago over abortion, ordination of women, etc.---long before the pedophile scandals.
yet i am deeply committed to helping those who need it--in small but also systemic ways. it's a pretty simple "ideology."
CF, don't misunderstand me -- I never said Black urban centers were bastions of light. In fact, I would concur that these places were Hell holes and their local elected leaders little more than 'Poverty Pimps' long before guys like Eddie Long showed up. If anything, working class folks in these cities don't demand more from their leaders.
The problem I have is that
1) the Horatio Algiers myth is just that, myth. Our country as whole is screwed up because we all have drank the Kool-Aid that 'if you're so smart, why aren't you rich?' and that progressive taxation doesn't work. The rest of the Western world rejected that inane BS decades ago. Basic things like Healthcare and basic secondary education (community college, state schools, etc) are all but free for EU members and Canadians. We're the only industrial country stupid enough to think that we run a modern society with some form of solid state welfare.
2. The reason why our cities suck is that Americans don't get actively involved in their government at any level. Whether its running starting a neighborhood watch, running the local school board, or just showing up once a month a the city council meetings, most Black and Brown folks in the hood just don't give a damn. Yes all the cities you listed suck -- but their wealthy predominantly white suburbs are just fine thank you. Why? Because educated, well heel yuppies and old money white guys aren't gonna put up with but so much before they throw your behind to the curb.
After running for local city government twice, I've come to the conclusion that the greatest enemy of change is apathy -- most Americans like to whine but don't care enough to change what causes the griping. And if we do get involve, its because a charismatic, slick hype man (Messy Jesse for Black folks in the hood, Nader for hippies or what ever former-corporate PR man is running the Tea Baggers) rallies a crazed angry mob in the streets while offering little to nothing to fix our problems. Its easy to say how Obama failed us in 1 year or that Bush was an incompetent. But to actually engage the system to change it requires sacrifice, something Americans avoid like the plague. CF, we both agree that Slick Willie pols who have long pimped the poor and well meaning progressives needed to be thrown out with the leisure suit (Jackson, Sharpton, Nader) or at least taken to the tool shed. But the same can be said for well-fed con men on the right like Limbaugh, Beck and Dobson.
3. The conversation is about how the AA religious community is plagued with pulpit pimps who fleece their poor and desperate parishoners while living like the Hugh Hefner. Forget my far left political leanings, preachers getting insanely rich off of the free Word of God is un-Biblical and just plain wrong, no matter what lever you pull on election day. On that can we agree, CF?
LAC - despite your attempted "outreach" you REMAIN committed to your dogma without any intention of ALLOW IT TO BE PUT ON TRIAL!!!
[quote] Basic things like Healthcare and basic secondary education (community college, state schools, etc) are all but free for EU members and Canadians. We're the only industrial country stupid enough to think that we run a modern society with some form of solid state welfare. [/quote]
LAC - With all due respect. Don't take this as a brush off.
IF Canada is so wonderful - why don't the aggrieved Americans do what the Mexicans are doing? SNEAK INTO CANADA for a better life!!!!
I assure you as sure as I am standing here that IF Canada saw a heavy influx of Illegal Immigrants and they started TAXING THE EURO-SOCIALIST system's ability to deliver services that your THEORIES would be put aside as they started to PROTECT THEIR OWN.
The problem that I have with you LAC is that you are never, never, never going to focus your eyes upon MEXICO and challenge them, as EQUAL PEOPLE, to put forth a SYSTEM that can better take care of their own people.
IRONICALLY LAC - that phantom system will be more CAPITALISTIC than your liking.
[quote] but their wealthy predominantly white suburbs are just fine thank you. Why? Because educated, well heel yuppies and old money white guys aren't gonna put up with but so much before they throw your behind to the curb. [/quote]
This is an ILLOGICAL analysis despite it being POPULAR among Progressives.
When the WHITE FOLKS moved out it was not a matter of their "human bodies" that moved which imperiled these cities. These Whites are made of the same carbon, oxygen, potassium and calcium as all others. There is nothing special.
Instead it was the SYSTEM OF PRODUCTION that once BUILD UP these same cities and attracted PEOPLE and then GOVERNMENT to keep things in order that was lost.
LAC - A few months ago I reported on how a public school in Philadelphia (Gompers) that was once a part of the civil rights struggle is now all Black. Despite this advancement ON PAPER - local parents in the community are sending their children elsewhere.
I maintain that it was not the physical building that was struggled over. THEY WON!! The "strugglers" now have it as their own.
It was not even the WHITE FOLKS whom they sought to sit next to that was the point of value.
Instead it was the PREVAILING SYSTEM that governed the school that was ultimately of VALUE.
When people like you focus on the "wealthy people" or "the White people" you have already gone awry.
What matters more than this is the SYSTEM and/or PROCESSES that had been implemented to produce the favorable outcomes that you now covet.
IF these had been a "Chinese" establishment that built up the same thing - you would be saying the same. I challenge you to evaluate the PROCESSES and determine if you are willing to implement them in the cities as they stand today so that the same WEALTH and HUMAN CAPACITY can be developed.
Do you see that as you focus on your OUTWARD EXPANSION, with the hopes of procuring RESOURCES that you will later bring back home to the masses you have not ENGAGED the people. You have only worked on BEHALF OF THEM and now you distribute to them.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ALIGN THEIR PERPETUAL BEHAVIOR WITH THEIR HIGHER GOALS?
[quote]that the greatest enemy of change is apathy -- most Americans like to whine but don't care enough to change what causes the griping. And if we do get involve, its because a charismatic, slick hype man[/quote]
LAC:
Let me set the stage for you. I don't believe that we need to have ideological agreement with each other for us to agree on the same goals. I respect that you believe as you do. From my view I see the key flaw as being the lack of ORGANIC DEVELOPMENT among the people.
I agree with your viewpoint that parents need to get involved with their schools.
Instead of hammering the school administration - they also need to AUGMENT their capabilities. They need to help out with community tutoring after school and things like that.
I told you before that "socialism" in and of itself is not problematic. It is when the practice becomes EXPANSIVE only for the sake of holding some external authority accountable for 'social justice' while never asking MUCH OF THOSE WHO SEEK TO BENEFIT that it becomes destructive to the cause of the people.
Think about it LAC - How can someone bring "Christian Salvation" upon a person unless that person is the primary engine for his own salvation?
The people have to be directly involved in constructing the STANDARD OF LIVING that they desire. It cannot be bestowed upon them.
Cultures are developed after a people have learned the painful lessons of life without a functional culture and the damage that it wrought.
selling hope. a damn shame.
All I know that in Queens, there are up to six churches on one city block and none of them pay property taxes (some of which are allocated to schools). This landscape goes on and on and on through South Jamaica. There fore, when I drive down Merrick Boulevard, I see at least twenty churches in a given area of four blocks and yet I.S. 8 is underfunded and marginal.
Agape2010, "When Rev. Ike died I heard people saying how sad they were...I was like...WTF??? Rev. Ike made his money off poor people (like this Rick dude...only he's mega).
I remember Rev. Ike said he could "heal" you if you just..."PUT YO' HAND ON DA RADIO" Richard Pryor paradied him well in Car Wash."
Rev Ike was a good soul and he could heal people over the radio. You just lacked the faith to try it.
My healing gifts will start at 25$ a pop. You betta get'em cheap before I go mega!!!! lol!
what could be more sinful as people starve and freeze homeless in the streets than giving one penny to a rabid vulgar homhating demon like rw???
yet another kudo for his bromancer obama who elevated warren's money making game immensely from day 1 in dc...
yet another example of the rabid elitist hypocrisies of typical hypchristians...shame!!!
shame!!!
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/unholy-ugliness-in-uganda-american-racists-pimp-homohating-africans.html
http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/an-open-letter-to-earl-ofari-hutchinson-obama-has-dogged-gays-and-blacks-1.html
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