I just caught the showdown at Saddleback. (What's up with the Ocean's 11 look?) Honestly, what does it say about A-merry-ca when the first time that the two men for President of these divided states hook up it's in a freaking church? Turns out that the man who gave us "a purpose driven life" *eyes rolling* is the only man in A-merry-ca who could have brought these two together. Boy, the church sure is powerful in A-merry-ca these days. I guess 911 made us all very religious. And why was it called the "Civil Forum"? Sorry, politics has long passed the point of being civil.
Anyway, a couple of thoughts: First, if we look at this little get together like we would a heavy weight fight, I would describe it like this: Obama was the classic boxer. The purist. Nimble on his feet, and full of fancy combinations. Mr. Morton, on the other hand, was the classic brawler, the puncher with a thick chin who isn't afraid to mix it up. Obama was Ali. Mr. Morton was Joe Frazier. And let's go ahead and call Rick Warren, Don King.
So who won? Alright let's go ahead and give the fight to Smoking Joe. Sorry Obamaholics, Mr. Morton beat your boy tonight. It wasn't a knockout, but he outpointed him. His punches were harder, and he was the aggressor throughout the fight. Oh your boy landed a few nice combinations, and he looked pretty good doing it. To steal a phrase from Ali: he was "floating like a butterfly." Unfortunately, he wasn't stinging like a bee. There was no pop behind those punches. The "O" man gave his typical thought out nuanced answers, and as is always the case when he debates, you could see why he made law review and not the moot court board at Harvard.
Mr. Morton was punching harder, and making direct blows. The straight talk was hitting with straight rights; and it was working. (Did you hear the audience? He had them at hello)
Of course they both had some bad moments too. The "O" man said that one of the three people whose advise he holds dear is Ted Kennedy. (Coming to a GOP commercial near you) And Mr. Morton said that being rich starts at five million dollars. (This is what being married to a woman who can wipe her ass with dollar bills for the rest of her life, and still have plenty left over, can do to your perception of wealth). I suspect that we will be hearing that comment again as well.
So anyway, after they went to their perspective corners it was left to the pundits and those of us watching in A-merry-ca to declare the winner. I am guessing that most folks saw it like I did. Unless, of course, they happen to be an Obamaholic.
Oh well, don't worry folks, there is always a rematch. Just tell your boy to train harder next time.
66 comments:
Being rich starts at five million? Holy shit, then I hate to ask what poor starts at!
I was dissapointed with Rick Warren. After the first few rounds he jumped on Mr. Obama about making stump speeches; however, Mr. morton, as you so generously name him, got to stump speach the entire hour.
Of course, the evangelical base didn't see that.
I thought it interesting decision for John Boy, as I call him, to leave out his wife (who was in the audience - cringe) when asked of his three personal choices for mentors, whereas Obama gravitated towards his family. I found Obama warm and engaging while Mccain just played to his faith base.
Z
Iron John performed well. His masters will reward him richly before his next beating by his beautiful keeper.
I like the courage of The "O" man by going into the lion's den/enemy camp he was behind on point by the fact that he was on enemy territory. Did you notice how fast Mr. Morton was answering the questions, either he new what the questions were or maybe the Aricept is really working. Ok, enought with the conspiracy theory; this is a church and they would never do that?????
I watched it myself and found it interesting how Mr. Morton answered the questions before the Warren could ever get them out which gives me an indication that he doesn't think before he speak. I agree with you Field that McCain is brawler, but tend not to go the distance in boxing matches if he is not able to knock out his opponent in the first three rounds.
I didn't have an expectation one way or another about Obama coming out the forum better than McCain. The analysis all week how this could pose a problem for McCain, and when think about he did not profess his faith to the audience. I want to see the audience was nuisance enough to pick that up. They are sitting talking about how McCain can tell a story and spout out antidotes, but I am not voting for Mother Goose. I am voting for the next person who is going to lead the country. I couldn't care if he can tell me a story. This is our people, we want to look at the person in the oval office as if he is our friend, amigo, a person who we can have an emotional connection with. I am not interested in a connection. I am interested in whether or not he string a sentence together, I do want someone who is a deliberate thinker, and knows that Pakistan is not the border country to Iraq.
We have lost our minds in covering the Rick Warren forum in the first place. I am sitting there watching a pastor mediate a political forum, and the reporters analyzed it. McCain couldn't even admit that he adulterous affair, he admits that it was a moral failure. It's lack of character that you cannot admit the affair, and it cancels out of the fact that he did noble staying in prison with the rest of Amer soldiers. However, it's find to you leave your wife, the person that waited five years for you to return and you turn around to marry a beer distribution heiress.
It did show the different styles of the two men, and quite the go-hung Grandpa is scary. I know people like the idea that McCain tells stories, but my grandmother use to stories as well. McCain with five thousand stories only puts more of a spotlight to his age.
Uh, that whole moral question did it for me. He skirted right past that one. "I am sorry that my first marriage ended....BECAUSE I CHEATED ON MY WIFE WITH THE DRUGGIE WHO IS NOW MY WIFE." Next time someone mentions the John Edwards fiasco, we will just say, "McCain says you can just say sorry and be done with it." I thought Obama did a good job all things considered. He looked at Rick Warren the whole time, no agenda in his answers. Mr. Morton was campaigning the whole dern time and never looked at Rick, just the audience. And let's not forget it was held in a church....right up Mr. Morton's alley....
Field,
As you know, I am an Obamaholic. But I think you called this one correct. While the O man gave context with his nuanced answers, being less direct did not do him well tonight. Neither did "playing by the rules". It was apparent that he was having a conversation with Warren. And while his language suggested that he knew he was speaking to more than him and the folk in the room, Mr. Morton scored points with his continuing stump speech and not even looking at Warren.
But we heard nothing new. Mr. Morton showed he indeed will be a continuation of the frat boy--even with his his command of the english language--he said(or at least I heard) "antidote" twice when he meant to say "anecdote". It is obvious that he intends on bullying his way around the world just like his frat brother.
I must say on a positive note, for us Obamaholics, the support outside seemed more leaned toward the O man. I live just 5 minutes from Saddleback, and when I drove by the entrance to the church about a half hour before the beginning of the forum, the protestors/supporters seemed to be mostly a pro-Obama crowd(smartly on the side of the street opposite the California Mounties. And that with Orange County having <3% folk that look like you and me.(Please forgive the house behavior of working and living behind the Orange Curtain, but I do try to represent). Then again, with those demographic statistics, my perception may have been secondary to the spiked Obama-aid, and she looked a whole lot better at the bar.
Suffice to say, the O man has some work to do.
From what I observed, McCain's answers seemed well rehearsed as if he knew what the questions would be. Yes, he was campaigning, no doubt about it. Did anyone else notice how the Reverend kept cutting Obama off and interrupting him, but he didn't do that with McCain. Obama didn’t smile the whole time he was there and that seemed odd to me.
What's wrong with Obama being a man who thinks first before he acts? I would rather someone think first before they go off half cocked, because a fool is hotheaded and reckless.
I have a feeling that Cindy McCain's arm brace might be from spousal abuse. It’s just a gut feeling I have. McCain’s whole persona and the way he disrespects her in public gives me that impression. He has the traits of a woman abuser. That look in her eyes is not one of a happy wife. She smiles but it's not a genuine smile. I know this is off topic, but I just have a feeling that her arm injury wasn’t caused by an accident. I get the impression that she is scared of him.
From what I observed, McCain's answers seemed well rehearsed as if he knew what the questions would be. Yes, he was campaigning, no doubt about it. Did anyone else notice how the Reverend kept cutting Obama off and interrupting him, but he didn't do that with McCain. Obama didn’t smile the whole time he was there and that seemed odd to me.
What's wrong with Obama being a man who thinks first before he acts? I would rather someone think first before they go off half cocked, because a fool is hotheaded and reckless.
I have a feeling that Cindy McCain's arm brace might be from spousal abuse. It’s just a gut feeling I have. McCain’s whole persona and the way he disrespects her in public gives me that impression. He has the traits of a woman abuser. That look in her eyes is not one of a happy wife. She smiles but it's not a genuine smile. I know this is off topic, but I just have a feeling that her arm injury wasn’t caused by an accident. I get the impression that she is scared of him.
Field: Brotha, thanks for the recap. I heard about this event over at another blog, but I decided that I would not give this conversation/debate any of my time. I'm glad I decided not to watch it. From how you described it, it was just what I thought it would be. **rolling of the eyes**
BTW: Check out this crazy blog. This author of this blog is suggesting that Senator Obama is the antichrist. I heard the anonymous blogger got featured on CNN for this bullcrap of a blog.
It's quite entertaining. But it's also sad. I guess some people would rather think that Senator Obama, a black man, is only achieving this level of success for reasons beyond the power of man. The idea that it could be because he is capable is just out of the question for many. Sad...
http://www.barackobamaantichrist.blogspot.com/
Peace,
Angie
Obama needs to quit playing nice or else he's going to get steamrolled after the convention in Denver.
yes rick warren is a phony. since this is a race-driven blog, i guess i need to say he is a white phony.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc
ughh. did that guy really not know what a black hole was?
lastly, i hope obama wins but mccain really pulled out all the stops tonight. "life begins at conception!"
he kept trotting out all the POW stories.
just remember, the primaries with democrats is much different from a general election. i've got a bad feeling...
On the plus side for Obama: This prolonged showcase of his style-'n'-ease should undercut some of the Hannity/Corsi/PUMA hysteria that paints him as a crypto-Muslim and a Weather Underground sympathizer.
On the negative side: You can't top a prisoner of war for gripping anecdotes. The bit about the cross drawn in the dirt for Christmas was a winner.
I say TKO.
Obama fought hard but lost, got to call it that way. Moreover, there are lots of soundbites coming out of this first exchange and they will favor McCain with the mouth-breathing, 50th percentile, red state, undecided crowd.
Another unfortunate thought, why would Obama go to any forum where "heartland" prefaced any of the questions or provided any context for the event? Seems like a lose lose all around.
Obama tried to dance and box--good analogy Mr. Field, while McCain just kept scoring visible and powerful punches. Just like in olympic scoring those visible punches are all that matters for the judges. McCain beat Obama with a series of strong body blows--his knees would have just given out on him in a contest of pugilists.
chauncey devega
Obama couldn't tell them what they really wanted to hear. "I'll appoint more judges like Clarence, support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, & give you millions of dollars to cure drug addicts by bringing them to Jayzuz." He should have said, "Kiss my ass."
Bob:
Amen, amen, and amen again! You hit the nail on the head.
Obama lost when he decided to go into the conservative stronghold of Orange County.
What the hell was he thinking?
This whole thing was set up to showcase McCorny.
Obama is going to carry California. What made him think that he would help himself with the undecideds, or the holier-than-thou evangelicals, with this appearance?
He should fire the one responsible for the decision--from every angle it was a no-win proposition.
~
Evil is in the eye of the beholder.
A lot of bromides, and homilies about Reagan, and being a POW; a stump speech. Reagan was not and is not god.
I'm still for Hillary or Billary if you'd like. Obama while fresh, has not been around long enough to know how to fight these people; Hillary and Bill do.
Obama spoke to the entire nation, straight up:
If Clarence Thomas is the kind of Negroe yall like, well then tough; if I'm elected president, there will be no unqualified Negroes like that nor whites, appointed to the SCOTUS.
Chief Justice Roberts, acquiesces to the executive branch of the government; true, right on time. I won't appoint clowns like that.
Rich is measured in cash money, dollar bills. $250K. (McCain's answer here leads me to suspect he had already seen the queries.)
We must provide medical care for our citizens, become energy independent, rebuild our physical infrastructure, and schools; and pay for it as we go, not passing the tab on to our future generations.
As POTUS, we will not go around the planet jumping on people, just because we can.
I'm pro-life and pro-family while respecting the differences of others.
McCain spoke to the audience sitting their in the church, and folks just like them watching and listening at home and in their automobiles:
McCain abhors all the so-called liberal and moderate judges of the supreme court; you'll never see anything like them appointed to the SCOTUS again if I'm elected president.
McCain is ready to go to war at the drop of a dime. If Russia wants to control the oil going through Georgia into Europe, hell let's go to war. Darfur, well thats tough; but those po' white folk in Georgia, let's go to war.
McCain is pro-life, pro-family; no shades of gray.
Rich is measured in happiness and how you feel about yourself and life; not in cash money dollar bills. Rich is $5M is an insult to the majority of Americans.
If Americans are going to be allowed to keep the monies they create and work for, who is going to pay the bills?
Rebuild schools through competition, capitalism, vouchers. Where is the tax money to pay for McCain's school vouchers going to come from?
Make money, keep your money, vote for me for president; and I will make war. Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.
Obama needs to sit on the sidelines for an election cycle or two, watch and learn from the pros, and then try again.
`
This is very troubling.
We need to get the ree-lig-un out of politics or the good, ole' U.S. of A. is at risk for going the way of Afghanistan and Iran.
The separation of church and state, last time I checked was still enshrined. Both McCain and Obama deserve a swift kick in the ass for fellating to Rick Warren this way.
I guess I see this a lot different that a lot of people here. I won't call it a win for Obama but it did serve it's purpose. When that idiotic book at the top of the best seller list, Obama at this forum did a pretty good job at "stopping the bleeding". After this can anyone really claim he's a Muslim or hates America? I doubt it. Lets be honest, those people in the crowd weren't going to be won over by Obama. And truthfully, those that watched probably didn't change their minds either way. Look, everyone has to go into the Lion's den every once and a while. McCain went to the National Urban league. The important thing about this forum was that Obama didn't make any major fuck ups.
And yes, it's quite sad when the a forum of this nature goes into all these political topics and it's at a church with a pastor as the moderator. The media is such a joke.
I'm with Christopher.
Why is this particular debate so much more important in terms of reception than say when McCain and Obama both spoke before the NAACP and Urban League? Its not a win or loss for either. When you speak before a core demographic this is what you get. Lets watch while the mainstream media pretends like its some turning point for McCain when it wasnt. Independents (especially women) however, would have to be freaking crazy to vote for McCain if they watched that last night. Oh, and why didn't Warren ask McCain about his votes to confirm the same Supreme Court justices he wouldn't nominate? What's up with that?
McCain said he would not nominate Breyer, GInsburg, Souter or Stevens to the courts if he was President (even though Rick Warren asked for one, he rattled off four). Now Stevens was confirmed in 1975 before McCain became a senator, but the other three??
Stephen Breyer
July 29,1994
McCain - YEA
Ruth GInsburg
August 3, 1993
McCain - YEA
David Souter
October 2, 1990
McCain - YEA
I think Americans United for the Separation of Church and State got it correct when they wrote:
Voters have heard quite enough about the religious views of Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama and don’t need another forum on the presidential candidates and faith, says Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
The church-state watchdog group criticized both candidates’ decision to take part in the Rev. Rick Warren’s “Saddleback Civil Forum” this Saturday at his mega-church in Lake Forest, Calif. McCain and Obama will each submit to hour-long questioning by the church pastor.
“Campaign 2008 is starting to feel like a Sunday school Bible drill,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “We’re electing a president, not a national pastor. I don’t see what good it will do for the American people to again hear the candidates spout pious platitudes about their favorite Bible verses or how devout they are.
“Candidates should appeal to the voters based on their qualifications for office and their stands on the issues, not their religious beliefs,” Lynn said. “This event continues the campaign spiral into religious matters. Americans want to hear the candidates’ views on important issues such as constitutional rights, public education, the Iraq War and the economy.”
Call it, another misstep for Barack Obama. Everytime he undergoes an examination by a Christian leader, Obama angers his base a little bit more. Who does he think he's appealing to? These white, heterosexual, upper middleclass voters aren't going to vote for Obama no matter how many times he says "I worship Christ and not Allah."
I'll be "The Other Bob" for a minute. One good outcome from my POV is that Obama patted Sam Nunn on the head and kissed him goodbye.
Thanks Chris for posting that piece. I am glad that are people who are religious can also discern the difference between politics and religion.
Think about this McCain did not spend time talking about his faith because he is uncomfortable discussing it. Which leads me to believe it is probably more or less with the deist philosophy of Thomas Jefferson, and it's something that you do not want to espoused to an evangelic group. McCain's answers were more political than religious because he was playing to the base.
Saddlebrook received both candidates with a warm reception, and from what I just heard on NPR some people in the group last night will vote for McCain because of decisiveness because he's to the point , some for Obama because of his compassion and thinking about everyday man, and some are still undecided. It's still a mixed bag.
Miranda does raise an interesting point about this forum being so important. The candidates were not asked questions about the economy or the war on Irag. They were more concerned about evil, same-sex marriage, and abortion. People want simplistic answers to complex issues. I do agree with Obama on the abortion and continuing to reduce the number as the reality that some women do use abortion as birth control. Take Star Parker for an example. At one point do you finally say to yourself that I think should go Planned Parenthood and learn the different methods of birth control. What happens is that a lot of these pro-life groups in addition to making abortion legal also want to eliminate the use of birth control as they consider birth control the same as abortion. That is not reasonable any stretch of the imagination. A pro-life person will step over a homeless person, ( a person who can obvious see is on hard times) to picket a Planned Parenthood clinic which abortion is not the only service it offers compared to offering adoption, healthcare, and educational services, and even cancer screenings. We tend to be myopic our our views and not pay attention to the bigger picture.
Thanks Chris for posting that piece. I am glad that are people who are religious can also discern the difference between politics and religion.
Think about this McCain did not spend time talking about his faith because he is uncomfortable discussing it. Which leads me to believe it is probably more or less with the deist philosophy of Thomas Jefferson, and it's something that you do not want to espoused to an evangelic group. McCain's answers were more political than religious because he was playing to the base.
Saddlebrook received both candidates with a warm reception, and from what I just heard on NPR some people in the group last night will vote for McCain because of decisiveness because he's to the point , some for Obama because of his compassion and thinking about everyday man, and some are still undecided. It's still a mixed bag.
Miranda does raise an interesting point about this forum being so important. The candidates were not asked questions about the economy or the war on Irag. They were more concerned about evil, same-sex marriage, and abortion. People want simplistic answers to complex issues. I do agree with Obama on the abortion and continuing to reduce the number as the reality that some women do use abortion as birth control. Take Star Parker for an example. At one point do you finally say to yourself that I think should go Planned Parenthood and learn the different methods of birth control. What happens is that a lot of these pro-life groups in addition to making abortion legal also want to eliminate the use of birth control as they consider birth control the same as abortion. That is not reasonable any stretch of the imagination. A pro-life person will step over a homeless person, ( a person who can obvious see is on hard times) to picket a Planned Parenthood clinic which abortion is not the only service it offers compared to offering adoption, healthcare, and educational services, and even cancer screenings. We tend to be myopic our our views and not pay attention to the bigger picture.
did not watch it... am taking a break from the minutiae.... however the quote in this morning's Philaldephia Inquirer was of McCain saying he opposed taxes.. "he doesn't want to take money from anyone... he wants everyone to be rich."
This suggests to me he does not understand how capitalism works. It requires a certain number of people to be unemployed and could not function if everyone was rich....
This sounds like someone who wants to push "Lottery" economics... pie in the sky bullshit that through the luck of the draw, you too can be a millionaire! But, dont ask those of us who are rich to give anything up.... and dont challenge our hoarding of resources, cuz, hey some day you might be one of us....
I swear, one day the hungry/poor/pissed off people are gonna rise up and in response to their let them eat cake mind set, the slogan will be "Eat the Rich!"
Yes hennaplace, grandpa is one scary dude. All those stories (or as he calls them anti-dotes). And personally, I don't want a prez. who can give me good stories and likes to say "My friends" a lot. But I bet that most of A-merry-ca does.
Miranda, great point about Mr Morton's votes to confirm some of the very supremes he was putting down.
And am I the only one who is REALLY troubled by this debate in a church? Like WTF?
Christopher, I agree with you, this country will be a Theocracy soon. (See Iran)
All those people cheering for McCain scare me, how can they be that stupid?
Yeah, Field, I am really troubled myself about a debate in a church.
That's dangerous ground for politics.
I kinda liked that old idea of separation of church and state.
Am I the only one that when McCain says "my friends", I get really cold and I can feel the tiny hairs on the back of my neck stand up? Is that just me?
~
video of greatest moral failure rap
`
FN,
NO! You are not the only one who is troubled by this. There are many of those who are troubled, but do not want to be seen as irreligious or have to defend themselves, to the many vocal evangelical Christians, that may be family or coworkers.
I grew up in the bible belt at a time where it was possible to proselytize in the schools. It would get tiring, with someone asking you if you were saved; not asking if you were Christian, because they didn't even care. Being something other than them, gave them their self righteous reason to harass you.
The right has given the evangelicals the power to do this now on a national level and encourages the intimidation in order for the right to remain in power. I think they learn this from the Southern Strategy as well.
I agree with your analysis, field. But it worries me. Because what I'm hearing you say is that America doesn't want an analytical mind, a nimble Ali. They want a simple mind that matches their simplistic notion of U.S. and world affairs, a brawling Joe Frazier.
field, this bothers me, because we have had a simple mind, a brawling Smokin Joe Frazier, in office for the past seven years and he got us into a stupid war, wrecked our economy and proved to be utterly incapable of hiring anyone to competently manage any of the major departments of his administration.
field, shouldn't we ready to deal with some nuance? Shouldn't we be tired of smokin Joe Fraziers by now?
Right on the nose, Field!
McCain give the impression as a man who has already made up his mind about many things whereas Obama came across as thoughtful and pensive.
To go back to McLuhan, he comes across as indecisive and his points didn't have any "pop" in them.
On the other hand, when he does show his confidence he is called "uppity"
He should stick with uppity.
"Am I the only one that when McCain says "my friends", I get really cold and I can feel the tiny hairs on the back of my neck stand up? Is that just me?"
miranda: If you couldn't remember people's names, maybe you would call them "my friends" too. SMILE
First off, Smokin' Joe was a very good boxer. He took Ali to his limits. Mr. Morton is more like Liston, dangerous and dirty, but not a good boxer. Ali climbed in the ring with Liston because that was where the fight was. But from the opening bell Ali fought his fight on his terms at his pace. He controlled the fight. Obama walked into Mr. Morton's own house and said I am here and there is nothing your can do about it and walked out under his own power. That is exactly what needed to be done.
I agree with the old white guy
like it or not :(
the vast majority of this Great country does/would never elect an idiot like Barry
remember majority rule and that's not blacks, women, gays or mooslems....lol
anon.2:31PM, you can't be serious.
Old white guy, I like the Liston analogy.
"field, shouldn't we ready to deal with some nuance? Shouldn't we be tired of smokin Joe Fraziers by now?"
Yes macdaddy, but AFTER he gets into office maybe. You and I both know that he will never get elected this way.
geoffrey philp "uppity" is fine with you and I, but somehow I don't think that Joe [red state] Six Pack sees it that way.
"Please forgive the house behavior of working and living behind the Orange Curtain, but I do try to represent)."
doc, I am sure you represent. Thanks for the update from behind the "Orange Curtain". (I love that name)
"above my pay grade"????
what the hell was that???
he is an idoit....lol
maybe he should ask his grandmamma or michelle....lol
I don't want no one answering that question for me...that is my damn business...so I appreciated his answer.
i'm sure the rest of the country aggrees with you......
NOT
their like a bunch of freak'in sheep and need their leaders to tell them what they can and can't do
don't believe me ...just go out in public and look around!!!!
The only good thing is that most people watching TV last night were watching the Olympics. Obama stayed true to himself. He never expected to get the majority of the evangelical vote, but I think he made some inroads. Maybe some will believe that he's not a Muslim.
To define "when does life begin" seems rather presumptuous for the likes of John McCain.
like it or not :(
the vast majority of this Great country does/would never elect an idiot like Barry
remember majority rule and that's not blacks, women, gays or mooslems....lol
.....................
Yes, Majority always picks idiots like George Bush! Don't worry once McCain gets into Office America will finish down hill much faster. And I'll be happy it was bought down by Majority vote!
Please some explain to me why Obama cannot be a Muslim, why the need to distance himself? Is this a new form of veiled racism? It's seems to me MANY are confusing Arab based Islam with African based Islam.
Arabs kicked the Africans out of part of their land (oil rich lands) Darfur comes to mind, like many mixed races with straight hair they think they are not descended from the original man and look negatively at the darker skin than whiter skin. Arabs have Muhammad pictured as white, Africans do not. Arab based Islam follows hadiths or traditions not the word from the Quaran. African based Islam follows the original text of the holy scriptures. I digress and I am oversimplifying all Arabs, all following hadiths, and not believing the black man is the original man because many white and Arab Muslims have no problem accepting this fact.
Anyway I thought there was this little thing in the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion but based on history,it's freedom of the religion approved by the Church of England. I guess it's just politics as usual.
Anon@
"
remember majority rule and that's not blacks, women, gays or mooslems....lol"
um...dude, yes it is. Women are 51% of the population alone. And when you add blacks est. 13%, hispanic/latinos, 14%, gays est. 10%, est. asian 4%, and native american est. 2%....
I will be voting for "Barry" and I suspect on Nov. 6th, you are gonna feel a bit shocked, cause you're gonna wake up and see that the Majority Ruled.
Mix Islam or Christianity with government and be prepared for progressive and ignorant rule.
Bean:
Not all Arabs practice the Islamic religion. Islam is part of the Abrahamic religions that include Christianity and Judaism . You can call Islam an Arabic religion as the origin birth of the religion is in Mecca, the holy city for Islam. The situation in Darfur is complex everyone that lived in the region of South Darfur were practicing muslims, but the Janjaweed are Afro-Arabs and the Fur, Massaleit, and Zahawaw are land tilling non-Arab. Drought, desertification and overpopulation the causes of the conflict. You have an old problem the farmers vs the herders fighting over what available land that was not affected by the drought, and the government took it as an opportunity to heighten its interests.
Barack is not muslim. His was father and after some time, Barack's father seem not be a practicing muslim himself. Barack was agnostic prior to joining Trinity Baptist Church in the 80s. Bean there is nothing wrong with a being than it is being Christian or Jewish. The way I see the three religions are historically connection because they are share Abraham who is the considered the father of nations. He is a major prophet in all three. Islam also has different denominations such as Shi'a and Sunni. Also, not Africans follow the scriptures in the Qur'an as the religion gets incorporated with the culture and customs of each tribe. Islam is practiced differently from country to country.
Unfortunately, this country is not very tolerate of other people's religion. If Barack were to say he is agnostic would not sit well nor being Buddhist. He would not be elected for any religious belief under than Christian. Oh Hell, Mitt Rommney a hard time because is a Morman. If you do not know "Onward Christian Soldiers, people are not going to vote for you. People have a difficult time if they were to tell someone if they were atheist, what you do not believe in God and that's coming from the people who do not attend church on a regular basis. Religion is a hotbed of controversy.
henna-
thank you for your input, maybe my words were unclear and I was being brief I don't need a history lesson. Islam and Judaism are the same "religion" with different names for the holy days; Islam was considered a way of life until the church of England decided to categorize "religion" to control the populace.I was just saying it seems some people do not understand that Arabs and Africans practice different forms of Islam. Of course I know not all Arabs and Africans are muslim...duh. It seems to me that if you say you are Muslim it is being associated with being a terrorist- thus Arab terrorist. I wonder what is so wrong if Obama was a Muslim. I have read his book about the story of his life, please do not assume I am lacking the knowledge of our candidates. It doesn't matter to me that he is a Christian , why does it matter if he is a Muslim? There are plenty of examples in amerikkan cities of black Muslims so I wonder are people putting blinders on and associating "muslim" with terrorist and is this the reason why Obama is trying to distance himself away from Islam. and like always what does this have to do with leading a nation?
If I had known that Pastor Rick Warren was going to play favorites with the GOP war party, I'd have checked out his famous book, The Purpose Driven Life from the library in 2002 instead of helping him become rich.
The "O" man gave his typical thought out nuanced answers, and as is always the case when he debates, you could see why he made law review and not the moot court board at Harvard.
ZING! LMFAO!!!!!
Bean:
It's okay, but I was just having a conversation. If were offended by my comments, then I apologize. Personally, it does not matter to me if he was muslim, but you have some ignorant bigots who are not going to bother study any other religion than their own. The fact of the matter, this country brands itself as a Judeo-Christian nation. I really do not care if he continued with being agnostic or atheist, but are not going for that either. I had a conversation with guy who wanted to go out with on a date until he brought the subject of religion by saying if you do not profess that Jesus is the savior, you are going to Hell. Let's just that I did not see that person again because he was a wet blanket. So by his definition Ghandi wasn't going to heaven. So some people do associate muslims with terrorism. However, I guess they forgot about Timothy McVeigh who was associated with a Christian identity group, but that does mean that Christians are terrorists? However, considering the climate of this country being Christian, they are not going vote for him if he said was Muslim. Don't get my wrong, there are politicians who are muslim and hold offices in local municipalities. There is U.S. Congressman from Minnesota who is the first muslim to be elected. I think name is Keith Ellison and they give him a hard time. There was also controversy that he used the Qur'an that was ironically owned by Thomas Jefferson for his swearing in 2006.
In this country, we deal with racism, sexism, classism, gender and religious intolerance. I have dealt Christians and Muslims who believe that their religion is the true religion, but they are very fundamental with their beliefs and Christians and Muslims who accept one another's religion.
I think Barack did just fine. He actually answered the questions, unlike McCain.
All Christians are not alike. The religious right of youre is crumbling and disillusioined since KarlRove used and abused them like a fat girl on prom night. Quit buying into MSM bullshit. They wouldn't know a Christian if one bit them on the backside.
damn I had a lot go typos.
Field,
It was not supposed to be a stump speech. Obama stuck to the rules and Mr. Morton jumped up on the stump. Sorry I disagree with you on this one. I know "all's fair in love and war," but the "O" Man won.
Umm Field...there appears to have been some shenanigans regarding the forum last night. Let's see, there's the little question of whether or not McCain not only had the questions beforehand, but perhaps listened to some of Obama's portion of the forum with Rick Warren. Yeah, it seems Mr. Morton wasn't actually AT the church when the forum started...he was "in route" arriving 30 mintues later...but he says "I didn't hear or see a thing!!" Yeah...ok. I guess it makes sense that he appeared to have "kicked" the O man in that forum because well... the O man didn't have the cheat sheet, plus he had to play by the nigger rules.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6653036
Miranda, I heard about that. Stay tuned, there might be more to that. Of course if Mr. Morton did cheat it wouldn't surprise me.
kellybelle, what typos? There are no typos on this site.(Follow the lead of the host :)) As long as we know what you are trying to say, it's cool.
saraphen, I was watching the Olympics and the forum.
"McCain not only had the questions beforehand, but perhaps listened to some of Obama's portion of the forum with Rick Warren."
See there, I told you guys that from what I observed McCain's answers to those questions was too rehearsed as if he knew what the questions would be ahead of time. Think about it, McCain has never answered questions before that fast.
Granny might be getting old, but I wasn't born on a milk truck, and I still don't miss a beat. Granny was paying close attention to McCain and Obama.
Next time, when you watch it again, pay close attention to McCain's demeanor and his eyes during that questioning session, which was a dead give away to me. He had a sneaky look in his eyes and on his face.
For some reason Obama had an uneasy look on his face and it was odd to me was that Obama did not smile when he came out, nor did he smile at any time during the whole proceeding. That is unusual for him, because he always flashes a smile to his audience when he first comes out, but not this time. He had an expression on his face like he knew something wasn't right.
Yup,Pastor Rick Warren is a pastor, true enough, but he is,also,a human being first. Name one human being on this planet that is perfect. Just because he has the title pastor does not make his mouth a prayer book.
Dogs can't keep still, and a dirty dog got to keep moving, because if they stop their dirt will catch up with them. I still say he is abusing his wife too.
Ali/Frazier? Huh? This was more like one of those HBO fights between a Mexican boxer and a Carribean boxer. The crowd's like 75% Chicano, so they're just going nuts for the Mexican dude. A shot is landed here or there, someone stumbles in Round 8, but nothing devastating. Goes the distance. Should be a split decision, but Don King bribes the judges and the Mexican wins.
This wasn't a win/lose situation. The real audience was independents and moderates watching at home. Obama came across as thoughtful, intellegent and well. moderate. McCain playing to the mostly Orange County Reagan Rethug audience in the church and came across as Bush on steroids. He moved far, far right to appeal to white evangelicals, most of whom would vote for him anyway at the expense of losing his "maverick" credentials with independents and moderates. He sounded like a typical right wing Rethug. So who do you think won the mods and indies? The thoughtful, intelligent young man with mainstream views or the war mongering old dude who answered every question the way our current President with the 28% approval rating did in 2000 and 2004?
By the way, McCain probably plagiarized that story about the cross. There's an almost identical story in the the memoirs of Solzhenitsyn, who survived the gulag (and who McCain has mentioned as one of his favorite authors) - published 1976. McCain never mentioned the cross story until very recently.
The media would never let the O man get away with anything like that, but I'm sure for John Sidney McCain III they'll roll over & play dead.
SILENCE IS NEVER GOLDEN!
(Unless you're in a Cone of Silence)
"SILENCE IS NEVER GOLDEN!
(Unless you're in a Cone of Silence)"
LOL!!!
There is some controversy brewing of whether or not McCain heard the questions ahead of time. I heard he was actually en route to the engagement listening to the questions on a live feed in the car. It wouldn't surprise me if it were true.
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