No truth to the rumor that Nike dropped Michael Vick and Hush Puppy picked him up......I know white folks that wasn't funny.
But seriously, if this story with Vick and the dogs is true, he is cooked. America will never forgive him! He would have had a better chance of redemption if he had killed his wife like another famous football player did. I have blogged on the issue of white folks and their pets before, and if you thought I was lying, watch how this Vick thing plays itself out.
On my to work this morning it was all over AM radio stations, and I am not just talking about the sports shows. One guy actually called in and asked for the "death penalty" if it could be proven that Vick actually trained dogs to fight.
Now let me say for the record, I love dogs; If I had to make a choice between a dog and a cat it wouldn't even be close. They don't call them "man's best friends" for nothing. Still, I just don't get it with A-merry-ca and animals. There is so much hypocrisy involved with this entire situation that it's almost laughable. I can hear Joe "Sixpack" over the dinner table now: "Honey can you believe what this jerk did to those poor animals? The man should be put under the jail; how can you do that to a poor dog, another living thing for crying out loud? Ahhh could you pass the steak for me please?" Context America, context.
Sorry, I live in a city where 222 human beings like me have been murdered so far this year; so you will excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over Micheal Vick's fucking dogs.
Wednesday, July 18, 2007
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58 comments:
The thing is dogs are cute and fun and innocent, as opposed to humans, who are by and large assholes. Not the strongest argument in the world but I'm trying to articulate it for all the white folk who don't come round here.
You can let Mancow and Brian Kilmeade articulate it. Kilmeade, the de facto sports guru for FOX, says look for Vick to be suspended for an entire year.
Torturing animals is bad...I just can't seem to muster as much pain and outrage as some would want though.
Ok, this story is on CNN as Im writing this! I am not white, but I do feel that dog fighting is inhumane. And, as people, we should strive to be humane, to all.
And that includes people.
L
Until white folks start treating blacks humanely, I could care less about any other species.
Death penalty?!? Oh come on now...and I type this as my little Yorkie is off being groomed (yes I am black!)
OK cluizel, the Yorkie is cute:)
Maybe if Vick was allegedly fighting Yorkies I would have had a different perspective.
"Until white folks start treating blacks humanely, I could care less about any other species."
Anon, that's classic. I might have to use that quote sometime.
this is just plain gross... i have to look away from the tv if a guy turns an ankle during a basketball game, so i cannot understand the entertaining of watching and betting on dogs mauling each other in a pit... PLUS it's ILLEGAL!
your hyperbole concerning 222 of your neighbors being gunned down notwithstanding, comparing that to the Mike Vick situation is really apples and oranges. in my estimation, they are BOTH tragedies.
plus, i live in Atlanta... so there goes the Falcon's season... again!
Plez, I agree that I am using hyperbole to make my point, but that point (about the murders )needs to be made. And yes, it's "illegal", and if found guilty Vick should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But all this....I just don't know.
Why people in our society get so outraged and upset when dogs are trained to kill each other, and not when a crack addicted mother throws her baby out of a window; or, some 18 year old shoots a 13 year old in the face because he owes him $20, is beyond me.
I am sorry, some of these same people are hunters, who would just as soon put an arrow in Bambi's heart and not blink an eye, or give it a second thought. But because we are talking about animals that are used as pets I am supposed to all of a sudden feel different about it? Nope, i don't think so.
BTW, sorry about your Falcons. Yep, I think they will need a QB this season. You better hope Joey Harrington has something left. Or, you could always go after Caulpepper :) Tell Home Depot man to open up that check book.
Field, I agree with you about him having a better chance of being forgiven if he'd killed his wife.
I'm a white woman, and I do love animals. Even supposedly "ugly" ones like possums and torn up stray dogs/cats. What I don't love is self-professed "animal people" who are cold towards other people, of whom I have met many. All of them white, now that you mention it. I'm inclined to take your word for it that that's not just a result of me having spent most of my life around mostly white people (and hence would not have met lots of animal-loving/people-apathetic black or Mexican or Chinese people), that it's actually a white-people thing.
I don't blame anonymous for feeling the way he/she stated in his/her comment.
I find the whole thing fucking heartbreaking. It kills me that dogs were tortured and killed. It kills me that anybody at all, never mind lots of people, have the experience that it matters even less when they are tortured and killed (which is factual experience, not perception). And, as much as I cannot even stomach knowing the details of dog fights or cock fights, let alone the particulars of this case, it fucking kills me that Michael Vick will be written off as just one more black man monster. As if people who torture and kill animals just got shot out of the womb being evil, and how much easier it is for white people to believe that about any person of color. As if this is "what" he is, that there is no "who" he is, much less any relevance to how he got this way or any desire to help anybody else not get that way.
Which is not to say I'm crying for Vick, quite honestly. It's also my personal experience that the whole loves-animals/could-give-a-shit-about-people thing does not apply in reverse, that people who get some kind of satisfaction out of overt cruelty to animals are also the people who get some satisfaction out of being cruel to me or other people. I am freaked out by Michael Vick and what he did. Considering that it will do nothing to help animals at all, and considering what else is being kept out of the news that it could help some people if word got out, I resent this story's domination of the headlines. And already am bracing myself for the get-out-of-being-called-a-racist-free-because-Vick-is-so-much-more-evil-than-my-well-placed-remark cards that I expect will be played across the media as this case gets further discussed.
In general I think most dogs are nicer than most people. I'll even take a racist dog over a racist person. The dogs just bark and growl, the people tie you behind a truck. That being said, I'm not one of those "animal people". I think people who hurt people need more punishment than people who hurt animals. The only reason there is all this attention is because Vick is famous. If some non famous person fought, hung, drowned, and force mated dogs we might hear about it on page 28.
i don't think joe sixpack would object too much (heck, he'll probably put down some change on the fight). you probably get the most noise from yuppies and their suburban soccer counterparts with families.
Dogs fight, and?
You mean some actually paid law enforcement folks spent their days investigating some dog fighting?
Isn't there thousands of missing children in this country? Don't we still have POW's? Is New Orleans safe now? No women were raped while those dogs were fighting, right? Isn't here elderly abuse going on in retirement homes and hospitals? Someone wasn't being beaten in a domestic situation, huh?
Wow! I am so proud of our country and PETA. We have solved all of our problems now...the last one is dog fighting and those darn gone black athletes. We have come a long way. I salute you PETA, I feel safer already!
*Plain, Tomfoolery and Digduggery!*
Smacking my lips and shaking my head.
I love dogs...but I can always go buy another one.
-Divine
Vick shouldn't have been doing it and now he's busted and should face the consequences. Should he be villified as the Hitler of the week? No, and all the death penalty stuff is just silly. Clearly, there are worse things going on in the world. But I do think that just because there are worse things, that doesn't mean that we excuse the more minor seeming wrongs.
My cousin used to fight pit bulls. I always felt so bad for those dogs, chained up and unable to move more than a foot in any direction, doing nothing but eating and just waiting for the next fight. He made a lot of money off of those dogs and for someone who didn't graduate from high school, he was enterprising and able to support himself for a little while. At least, till someone came along and poisoned the dogs.
Come on Field--you as a prosecutor know damn better. These are predicate or pretextual crimes--show me someone breeding and carrying on dog fights in the hood and bam--you also got drug dealing, murder, assault, theft, tax evasion you name it. In and of itself, it's cruel, nasty, stupid--which means cruel nasty and stupid people are drawn to it. Do you know how the FBI profiles serial killers? The first thing they ask is if they tortured or attacked animals. No, dog does not equal humanm black or white, but if you are doing this kind of shit to dogs, then it's not a stretch to say you got an utter disregard for decent behavior, and the DOJ stats back that shit up. Dog fighting in the US is either a cover operation or at least leisure time actively for gangsters.
So yeah, throw the book at Vick, the get him to roll on his family, his boys. Trust me there's more to this. Anonymous can kiss my ass. Look I hate dogs, I'm allergic to their dander and spit. But I hate thugs who are predators on our own people more, so let's draw the line. Black folks are being murdered, starved, assualted, raped, dealt drugs to, allowed to be experimented on, burned, mutilated by other black people here the hood and in Africa in about ten different place we know of so get the hell out of my face with that "white people treat black like dogs stuff." Sorry for the cursing...
you aint know http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v48/223/100/5713956/n5713956_32067026_5644.jpg
plez i was about to say something judgmental and negative towards you and I apologize for the mere thought. It was very narcissistic of me to think that all should think like me. Peace and eternal blessings brethren.
I see where you're at with this Field and I agree that white folks are over the top with their pets and the "pet industry", but I'm with Chris Chambers on this. Plus, people who hurt and torture animals are the people MOST LIKELY to not give a shit about other people, they are your future, potential serial killers (there are studies and stats on this, I'm just too damn lazy to look them up).
For your former animal torturers (Dubya blowing up frogs as a young buck) this may just be practice. If they are getting away with this stuff NOW, killing people in the future, for them, may not really be a big deal.
The culture associated with dog blood sport and other forms of violence when dealing with animals (cockfighting, etc) IS violence, and that tends to be related to other forms of violence against people, particularly violence against women (according to my FBI/S.A.-relative, violent males tend to view women and animals who can't defend themselves as beneath/"less than" valuable in society, etc.)
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is what the deal is with Vick, hell, he has 100 mill, he don't have to rob and steal to eat. And he is innocent until proven guilty.
Damn CC, did I touch a nerve?
"white people treat black like dogs stuff."
I didn't say this. It amazes me that you can misconstrue ONE sentence. Reading is fundamental.
I said whites don't treat blacks humanely. How can you disagree with that?
It's interesting how you turn a story about american (mostly white, IMO) outrage at dog mistreatment into a diatribe about black mistreatment of blacks in your second paragraph. That need to jump to massa's defense is overpowering, isn't it?
Look. Any people that can defend dogs so strenuously don't need your assistance to defend themselves.
Your non-sequitor about black on black crime is factually obvious and irrelevant. What does black-on-black mistreatment have to do with the central thesis of the post: that white folks (and the other PETA-types) are taking this story about dog-suffering out of proportion, but don't seem give a damn about black-suffering?
And thanks for educating us. I didn't realize that dog fighting was the gateway crime to murder, lol. I for one would like to see the stats that link inhumane treatment of blacks (by anyone) to all those crimes you listed. Bet the FBI didn't do THAT study.
-Caged Lion
aww the post got FN cussing in full force at the end...lol.
reading vick's *extra curricular activities* makes me uncomfortable. the cruelty shown upon the defeated dogs, left me speechless. i'm not a dog person, but regardless if its animal or human, none deserved to be treated so cruelly. bet he's only regret was getting caught, as much as he deserve to be punish, death penalty seems irrational.
shygiraffe
Anonymous--it has everything to do with your statement about white people treating black folks less than human, then you'd care about this matter. I'd say that's the irrelevant statement. And that you resort to the usual ghetto retort "hey you're jumping to massa's defense" is sad and telling. I'm not defending massa. I'm attack YOU. There's a difference. From Liberia and Sierra Leone to the Sudan to West Philly, there a black people treating other black people worse than dogs, so for you to blanketing bemoan prosecution of Vick and to trivialize this illegal sport, illegal activity and the overwhelming nexus it has to crime even worse crimes that pillage our community, well...I dunno, man. Stay in your cage if all you are gonna do is roar at mr. Charlie and Missy Anne.
The death penalty is too good for Michael Vick. He should be locked in a jail cell and the key should be given to my dog to bury out in the prison yard.
Vick fucked up; at the same time, Marion Barry, Sharpe James and a long line of black folks have been found guilty of being black and prominent. Not that they both weren't corrupt...
White culture is gunning for us; we are THEIR pitbulls and we oblige them. Why are we so hardheaded? On the flip, if Vick did this inhumane, cruel, shit - he's gotta pay. I hate to see the brother go down; hard lesson, he won't do it again.
However, the "use" of Vick, like the use of Barry Bonds by white culture, as assembly-line black monsters that serve white folks' insatiable need to feel superior...is pathological. White culture needs a constant stream of OJ's to buoy themselves.
I agree with Maxjulian--and with Field. This is just another attempt by white folks to prove their virtue by what they publicly flog black folks for. It is symbolic use of blackness to declare white virtue. We hold out Vick to prove that we are humane to animals. We publicized the Thomas hearings beyond any confirmation hearings before or since to demonstrate white seriousness about sexual harassment. Whites prove their openness to homosexuality by firing Isaiah Washington. And, of curse, whites prove their commitment to clean baseball by how they insist on Bonds exposure. In all these circumstances and many more, it is wquite evident that the situations might have--and actually in retrospect especially--could have been handled with a lot less fanfare. For example, in the years after the Thomas-Anita Hill sexual harassment scandal, subsequent incidents of it were not me with nearly the vitrolic rhetoric as the Thomas-Hill circumstance. White feminists, for exampple, seemed less outraged later when the culprit was the typical white man. So, I have no doubt that were Vick white, the act would be condemned perhaps but certainly not with the same fanfare--and most likely not tried federally.
Finally, in a funny incident, I met the president of PETA and confronted her on what I had gathered was her racism. (She is an Australian native.) In exchange at a book signing of hers, I was nearly stoned by PETA faithful although the pres agreed that she equated the rights of animals with the rights of African Americans--that PETA's goals are the moral equivalent to the abolition of slavery.
Moreover, in the moments of my impending stoning, I realized that most of the zeal of PETA and its sympathizers is based on a near hatred of people--and even their seeming affection for animals is not pure. They just imagine that they deserve unconditional love--and believe that they can secure this from animals--with a lot less of their inadequate selves. Indeed, to my way of thinking domestication of animals itself (breeding for this purpose) is an act of vanity of humans. I wonder how an org supposedly dedicated for the human treatment of animals condones--even celebrates this.
CC,
I have never bemoaned Vick's prosecution. Again, reading is fundamental. I said I could care less about the dogs (i.e., any other species). I could also care less about vick.
The reason I say you're defending massa is because you are refuting my statement about whites by ONLY criticizing blacks. And doing so vehemently. You don't even want to acknowledge that whites treat blacks inhumanely. We have all seen that rhetorical brick too many times.
Lastly, excuse me if I don't agree that dog fighting is the gateway activity you think it is. Show me statistical significance. It sure is a convenient way to demonize someone, though.
Again, there are truly too many people treating blacks inhumanely (white or black) for me to give a damn about some fool and his dogs.
-Caged Lion
FN--please weigh in, dude. Is this an OJ situation now? "Oh the PETA loonies, who the damn white folks. Oh the oppression. Oh woe is us...set Mike free!" I can see it now. Too bad JC's dead but there's plenty of lawyers who know the game.
"Some fool and his dogs." Hmmm.
CC,
Now you're just wantonly tossing in the strawmen.
NOONE on this thread has said that Vick should go free or get less than the law prescribes. Really, now. Stop reaching.
-Caged Lion
e-fight!!!
Seriously, I hate to play peacemaker, cause I love to see two deep people going at it. We all can learn so much from these spats from time to time.
But Chris, I have to agree more with caged lion on this one. I just think we need to put all of this in it's proper perspective. Chirs, as an Attorney, I know you know that people rarely get serious jail time for offenses such as this-although I understand that we are dealing now with some gambling and tax issues as well. So I think the fact that Vick is a rich athlete fuels the vitriol and hatred that we are seeing from those in the majority. Now is he-Vick- a knucklehead? Of course he is...but the death penalty?
My frustration with this entire situation stems from the fact that poor children and people of color in this country suffer every day, and we hear nothing close to the level of outrage that we are hearing over these damn dogs!
Sorry, the double standard is killing me.
I can hear Joe "Sixpack" over the dinner table now: "Honey can you believe what this jerk did to those poor animals? The man should be put under the jail; how can you do that to a poor dog, another living thing for crying out loud? Ahhh could you pass the steak for me please?" Context America, context.
right! i don't see what the big deal is. all 'trained' animals are abused in some form or fashion. they are placing more value on a dog than they do in black lives...and that pisses me off. not saying i agree with what he's doing, but for real, aren't there bigger issues to be worrying about than this?? geesh. america needs an f-ing clue.
Yo Field I have to agree with C Chambers on this one and Ill tell you why especially if it is true about the guy electrocuting a dog because the dog lost a fight that is way over the top.
Also Fuck what white people and the white media think, Michael Vick has a pattern of doing retarded and stupid ass shit please dont forget that the loser gave a young ladies herpes knowingly which in my book is worse than electrocuting a dog I have absolutely zero respect for him over that.
Lastly as long as the preachers ignore the aids issues and allow the communities that their churches are located in to remain dirty and trash filled with violence around our children In my opinion responsible black people need to fucking stop complaining about the media and ram their foot in the preachers asses.
Im tired of black people criticizing the media and white people when our own leadership is cooning on galactic levels.
Fuck those white people who care more about dogs than the lives of black people, but also fuck all of the black leadership that is sitting on their asses while all those young black men in philly, DC, New york and all over the country are being slaughtered.
As far as Im concerned field your article is off based the white media or PETA is not responsible for comming into the hood and teaching black people not to kill each other. That is our responsibility and before you we should be getting mad at the white media we should getting mad at each other for allowing this shit to happen for the last 20 years.
Message to everyone on this thread, the white media cant/or wont do a fucking thing about blacks killing each other only black people can do that.
Field Im sorry but your anger and disgust is misplacedd when you get mad at a group of folks that most black people dont believe respect or care about us in the first place but you and we do and say nothing about these cooning as corupt preachers.
Fuck the white media, Fuck Michael Vick and Fuck all of the black leadership that will not do their job and patrol these streets were black men are bieng slaughtered in oreder to stop.
And for gods sake stop focusing on groups that have nothing to do with the killing in the black community and start focusing on ways we can change this shit.
Field you are wayyyyy off base the murders going on amongst black people still do not justify electrocuting a dog because they lost a fight.
They have nothing to do with one another and finally what exactly do you expect white america and the media to do about the murder rate of young black men that we arent capable of doing.
Our murder rate is our responsiblity to change.
Thanks, Mark. This has NOTHING to do with "white people treating blacks like dogs." I think I addressed that originally when I pointed out that black folks at home and abroad are murdering and abusing other black folks at a far more alarming rate and tenor than any five white folks, from Darfur to West Philly. But that was just an aside. It's America that needs to get a clue, it's some black folks. And Field, I stand by that the fact that dog fighting and pit breeding/killing hs nothing really to do with cruelty and PETA stuff, or even illegal gambling. the main horror is the FACT that these m-fs who do it are almost alwasy intimately connected with drug dealing, murder. racketeeering.
But now Vick is some sort of a hero to misguided black folks, and all that means is they will hoist him on and even higher pole. The sad thing is that the young people in certain neighborhoods are yet again going to get brainwashed into thinking this behavior is cool, and it's white folks and the media to blame for their plight. Shame on us. As I said, i hate dogs. I hate folks in blind denial too.
There is something patently uncivilized about forcing animals to fight. And I'm not a doggie lover, in fact, don't much like dogs at all. Around these parts, gang bangers love to stage dog fights. And immigrants love to stage rooster fights. Pretty disgusting. All these animals are brutalized and I really can't see how anyone can get on board with it or defend it. I am not a sports fan so this guy is unknown to me and could just as easily be any one of the gangsters in my neighborhood. Yuck.
I don't understand what the acrimony is all about. This seems pretty straightforward to me. First Vick has not even been convicted so he is innocent till proven guilty!
However, I don't see what the point is in debating how whites treat blacks, or how anyone regardless of race has a soft sport in their hearts for pets rather than dead children. I thought the issue was dogfighting and its brutality? I agree with other commenters that this crime is usually related to worse crimes in the community and so we shouldn't denigrate prosecution of this crime. In addition I do indeed worry about the messages sent to children that some things are ok or not so bad and white people are trying to impose their mores on us. There are no black or white mores. There's right and wrong, and dogfighting is wrong with no excuses, right?
Please tell me if I'm missing something?
"In addition I do indeed worry about the messages sent to children that some things are ok or not so bad and white people are trying to impose their mores on us."
mark bey: IN my opinion the messages that we send to each other are far worse, what about that stop snitching BS, Screw the white media and even white people for now.
Stop confusing the fact that the media is unfair and racist with the fact that Michael Vick is an ignorant SOB please remember he knowingly gave a black womon hepes and he even settled that case.
Black people do not need white folks to teach us their bad mores as we do a much better job of doing that to each other.
Nothing you said changes the fact that black folks need to stop talking about white people and blaming other folks when we do stupid and retarded sh#t.
Also, PLEASE stop dragging PETA into everything. I notice PETA is the knee-jerk response from people who think that they are "shaming" "crazy PETA folks" based on PETA's rep for crazy.
PETA people are, in my opinion, overzealous fanatics. There are two other more well respected, national organizations who are consulted work with violence against people, animals and children and it is these organizations who work closely with law enforcement: the Humane Society of the U.S. www.hsus.org and the ASPCA www.aspca.org.
PETA is pretty much out the game as far as credibility and respectability. "Legit" agencies rarely consult with them or want their names attached to their craziness. Please come into the 21st century. Enjoy your blog Field Negro.
pw
Sigh.
1. CC, what's with this need to demonize black folks by continuing to insist that blacks are making vick into a hero? Who is making Vick out to be a hero? Answer: noone. The more you make up these strawmen and outright fabrications, the less tenable your position becomes and the more you sound like Rush Limbaugh.
2. Secondly, CC, it is not a "FACT" that dog fighting leads to these other crimes--if you meant a documented correlation when you said "FACT" (writing "fact" in ALL CAPS does not make something a fact). At least, I haven't seen you establish this. I have not even found a documented correlation. Perhaps one of these lawyers or sociologists can produce a study.
Police find guns and drugs in highway stops all the time; yet noone would seriously posit that highway driving leads to or causes gun and drug use.
3. Most of what people are saying about black crime, corruption, etc, I agree with. But, this isn't the point of Field's post! To bring up black-on-black crime is a total non-sequitor. Further, this rhetorical device can be used to devolve any and every post/thread in the same manner. The end result: all discussion of white racism/privilege becomes annulled.
4. I believe in and practice self determination, but to discount and minimize the impact of white media and white racism is simply foolish. Has anyone heard of the Jena 6? The people in Tulia, Texas? The brother and sister lawyers in NYC that got punched and brutilized by cops? I could go on and on. By the logic of some, if black folks weren't lazy, shiftless criminals, none of those incidents would have happened. (and no, I am not comparing those real victims to vick) Our young men are dying in Iraq because of the lying media, and because of a population that could give a damn about "sand niggers".
White racism and white "mainstream" media have an impact, and the overblown coverage of vick's transgressions are an example of how the myth of inherent black criminality is propagated.
And the double standard is disgusting to me.
5. I stand by my original point that until I see some humane treatment of our people, issues like dog fighting are off the radar screen.
-Caged Lion
First off, I find it striking that many of the bloggers believe that Vick is only in the news because the white media wants to vilify black criminals. That is ridiculous. Mike Vick is at the center of the news because he is super famous, super rich, and is super scumbag. If Paris Hilton was behind a dog fighting ring and indicted, do you truly believe that it would fly under the media radar? It would be all over the news. This story just gives fodder to the continous demonizing of white america and need to continue to blame white people for everything that goes wrong. Give me a fricken break. And to say that America shouldnt be outraged by anything that goes wrong in the world until white america starts treating black people better is pathetic. Great logic. Lets let the rest of the entire world turn to shit because you belive the world revolves around your race. When in fact, the world revolves aroung money. Rich white people and rich black people dont care about poor black or white people generally. Get over this race first mentality because its a real set back. And to you white apologists on this blog that want to think that your race is so bad because of what some aristocratic white guys did prior to the civil war, and for what some rednecks did until the 60's, get over it. Stop hating yourselves and blaming white people for everything. Its pathetic. Its just as pathetic as black people doing nothing to better themselves while blaming white people to their plight. Its getting old.
Still with "Caged Lion" on this one" Sorry Mark, and Chris, but this is not about how we as black people respond to the crisis going on in our community.
Mark, I think you know me well enough to know that no one calls people--black and white-- on their bullshit quicker than I do. I think I have been tougher on black folks than most of the AA bloggers out here. But I am sorry; I just can't stand the double standard in our society, and the selective outrage when it comes to certain things.
Yes, we should focus on us, and not what white folks think about us. Duh! But we don't live in a vacuum here in America, and believe it or not, the indifference to the plight of REAL people and not fucking dogs in society is troubling.
As I write this, Jason "HN" Whitlock is on O-Lie-ly's show talking about how black people need to do this and that, and how hip hop is bad for black people, blah blah blah. Why was he not on some right wing show talking about the Jena 6, and the Wilson case in Georgia? I will tell you why; it's called selective outrage, and all of a sudden every body is suffering from it.
"That is ridiculous. Mike Vick is at the center of the news because he is super famous, super rich, and is super scumbag...."
Folks, just remember this quote: "there is nothing a white man with a penny hates more than a nigger with a nickel"
"Get over this race first mentality because its a real set back"
Mmmm, it doesn't seem to be a real "set back" for you folks. I mean you always think race first too right?
Tell you what anon., I will quit thinking race first when you do. Deal?
You want to know the kicker that makes me vomit? The cops found empty sippy cups, diapers and such in one of the raids on the little bloody dog area, etc. Meaning a new generation of miscreants are being de-sensitized to thiscrap. Another generation that would rather say Look at Mr, Charlie, look at PETA! Wha Wha Wha, then looking inwardly. Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit. Another generation who just doesn't give a fuck, and is letoff the hook by folk like Mr. Caged Lion there. (Remember I said, the FBI profiles serial killers beginning with how folk related to animals in certain settings)
This is a criminal enterprise intimately entertwined with drug dealing and murder. I think you'l find that the "don't snitch" mentality sticks to this stuff not only because of a warped culture, but because folks are scared of the same people who killed X number of their own people over the past year.
I guess here's rub: this issue is one of those times when I have to group certain black folks in the same way I groups these right wingers who blog and leave comments--you have some sort of cement mindset on something and it's not that you can't see the forest from the trees...you won't. Now, that's your peroragative but day-um...
So, naysayers, white media have no effect on the consciousness or decisionmaking of Blacks?
Do white media have an impact on anybody? Whites, Asians, anybody?
If white media just have impact on just non-Black people, is that cause enough for Field to call attention to the inconsistency of the thinking.
If the goal of you naysayers is to insure black independent action or thinking does it then not make sense for Field to call attention to the media reporters that might misshapen such independent thought or influence actions of other non-Black people that might impact Black independent thought and action?
CC, my last post on this and I'm out. You made so many unfounded assumptions I don't know where to begin. So I will list some of them:
"Meaning a new generation of miscreants are being de-sensitized to thiscrap. Another generation that would rather say Look at Mr, Charlie, look at PETA! Wha Wha Wha, then looking inwardly."
1. What an emotional amalgam. You lump all of the antagonists into one group. These same folks are de-sensitized, are whining like babies, are pointing to mr. charlie and peta(for what, I don't know), while drinking from sippy cups, watching the dog hangings.
2. You really should read "Getting It Wrong" before you start talking about what our "generation" black youth are doing and thinking.
3. Most people and walk and chew gum at the same time. And most black folks can look inwardly, take responsibility, and recognize when "mr. charlie" is peeing in our front yards.
"Another generation who just doesn't give a fuck, and is letoff the hook by folk like Mr. Caged Lion there. (Remember I said, the FBI profiles serial killers beginning with how folk related to animals in certain settings)"
Who's letting anyone off the hook? (I ask for the X time.) From what I understand mr. vick was indicted, and will be likely convicted. Yaaaaaay!! Is that what you want to hear? Excuse me, I'm too busy fuming over Jena to crack a smile.....
On the FBI. Is this the same FBI that wiretaps Quakers without a warrant (because it profiles them as a threat)? Is this the FBI that does so well at profiling terrorists in our midst? Forgive me if I actually require evidence and data before I believe what the government tells me. You keep swallowing their claims hook, line and sinker.
"This is a criminal enterprise intimately entertwined with drug dealing and murder. I think you'l find that the "don't snitch" mentality sticks to this stuff not only because of a warped culture, but because folks are scared of the same people who killed X number of their own people over the past year."
HUH? I'm sure if you dig deep enough, you'll find vick had secret meetings with Saddam Hussien, and the hijackers. Those dog fighters are the bane of the earth, I tells ya!
And if you want to find a highly visible "no snitching" culture, call your boy Libby for some pointers.
Seriously, you are proving what alot of us are saying by heaping every conceivable evil on vick's dog fighting enterprise, and then blaming the actions of these criminals on the black community as a whole.
Vick was wrong. But instead of indicting vick, you want to indict the black community for the transgressions of a few thugs. And then you wonder why blacks don't want to hear your self-hating ---not introspective--- message.
-Caged Lion
Damn Christopher Chambers, you can pull a good one out when you want to can't you. I say fuck VICK!
Once again, a Negro with too much money, and no common sense as to how to spend it.
I'm sorry, but I'm getting fed up with our brothas who succeed against all odds to make that paper and then do something so stupid, it virtually guarantees you will be separated from said paper. There is something to the phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted."
If Denzel can work the Boys and Girls clubs, what the hell is wrong with Michael Vick.
I'm sorry, I won't be losing sleep over his training dogs to fight to the death, and I won't be losing sleep as to how much this hurts his ass with endorsements.
Every professional athlete has a "moral turpitude" clause in their contracts, and watch how fast they use it on Vick to hurt him where it really counts - IN HIS DAMNED WALLET.
I was in New York on business this week and they had Vick all but slung under the ESPN bus. And a part from one stupid brotha carrying a sign that said "MICHAEL VICK IS INNOCENT...DOG-GONE-IT", I didn't see any brothas rushing to defend his ass, either.
"'MICHAEL VICK IS INNOCENT...DOG-GONE-IT',"
LMAO!!! Sorry christ.prog. but that was funny :)
CC - I think it's possible to be wholly against dog fighting and general harm-causing in the world, and to not be an apologist for it in black communities, without having to give white media a pass on the points FN and others raise. Some people (me included) believe OJ Simpson killed his wife. Does that mean whatever magazine it was gets a pass for darkening his photo before plastering it on their cover? Or is talking about their racism somehow legitimizing the murder? Does it mean it's off topic for anyone to be like, hey, all this attention to one white woman getting offed sort of hits a nerve about the fact that bunches of black women get murdered and I've never seen it on Larry King?
Why is [dog fighting = bad] incompatible with [black people don't even get as much attention as dead dogs in the media = also terrible]?
Another irony about this dogfighting issue is the "barbarity" of football itself.
Its okay for men to crash into each other at high velocity, so much so that many become physically and mentally incapacitated (multiple concussions, dementia, paralysis, etc.) in their twenties or thirties. What does ESPN replay over and over again but the most violent "hits" of the day.
We're surprised when those lauded for being violent, playing this super physical, "punishing" game, get physical with their spouses or animals. How shocking?! But this is okay, partly because, most of the players are, what?!
"Million dollar slaves."
Max:
Kudos to your comments regarding the violence in football. Remember Jack Tatum, the Oakland Raider that put the "hit" on New England Patriot Darryl Stingley?
While the hit was defended as being "clean", I can truthfully say that Jack Tatum has never recovered from committing that hit that left Stigley in a wheelchair until his death. Even though Stingley himself defended Tatum's hit - Jack Tatum has lost that "something".
He's a functioning human being, but is a shadow of his former self as a man, so when you say "million-dollar slave" and combine it with the fact that retired NFL players are on welfare because their pensions are paying at the rate they would have earned when they retired in the 70s and 80s (thank you House Negro Gene Upshaw), they were just paid and glorified slaves, period.
And for the record, if Vick were white, maybe the PETA folks would have still blown up, but it would have been excused by everyone else - or if someone said he need to be punished, a slap on the wrist fine like Paris Hilton got.
However, I still remember a guy out in California who's currently doing three years in the state pen for engaging in "road rage", tossing out a driver's fluffy and adorable bison-frise into rush hour traffic on Highway 101 where it was killed instantly.
They damned near put an "Amber Alert" on his ass and he got caught within 72 hours. Go figure.
maxjulian: I wrote the same thing about boxing (RE your punishing game comment) then deleted it in my earlier post.
This man is getting kicked in the ass because he is a celebrity. Remember when a past president lifted up his dog by the ears? The country went c-razy! A white man threw a dog into freeway traffic here some years ago and the whole frigging Bay Area went apeshit over it. All over talk radio, all in the news.
I'm really tired of people trying to make us out to be professional victims. The man (the black athlete who did this) is pond scum. Dog fighting is a criminal enterprise. Period. It is not conducted by people who are in the "mainstream." It is often linked to drugs and other organized crime. It's certainly very popular with gangsters all over this country. Dog fighting is a big deal because when those dogs get loose, they go after people.
Right now, there is a story about two teen aged girls who lit a kitten on fire and laughed while the cat burned. The cat is alive and now people are debating whether or not it's right for the cat to get so much expensive vet care. Lost from the defenders is what a reprehensible thing these girls did. Don't know what color they are but if they are black, I'm sure someone will want them to be the new poster children for black victimization. It's hard for some of us to come to terms with the idea that there are some very bad people in the world and some of them happen to be black.
Finally, they are links between animal torture and serial killing. It's suppose to be one of several indicators. I did a quick google and there seems to be some evidence to support this. I'd love to know if this athlete beats his partners.
Good quote from prometheus6:
"Pseudo Problems In African American Life"
Posted July 19th, 2007 by ptcruiser
The program I was watching on the Discover Channel ended and I began channel surfing and came across Bill O'Reilly who I never watch at all. I broke my rule because I recognized that Bill the Pontificator's guest was the Kansas City pundit, Br. Jason Whitlock. O'Reilly and Whitlock were discussing - surprise - Michael Vick and the meaning of his legal troubles etc. I started to continue my journey in television land when Whitlock cut loose with a fatuous assertion that actually startled me.
Whitlock asserted that the legal troubles of Michael Vick and "Pac Man" Jones are clear signs that African Americans need to address what hip-hop culture is doing to our community. Huh? Can somebody, somewhere tell me why Michael Vick's indictment on charges related to dog-fighting and "Pac Man" Jones' apparent proclivity for frequenting strip clubs and getting into beefs with the cops are problems that we, the African American community, need to address? When did Vick's and Jones' troubles become synonymous with either hip-hop culture or the black community?
The Vick-Jones dustup represents simply another opportunity for folks like Whitlock to indict the black community at large when the overwhelming percentage of black people in this country are not involved in dogfighting or hanging out at strip clubs. If Michael Vick is found guilty on the charges his behavior cannot even be remotely attributed to hip-hop culture. And it certainly is not a problem that belongs to black folks at all.
Geez,
I love your blogs FN. And I guess other people do also, as they come on here and get mighty testy about drivel and "race".
I am a dog lover, not too concerned with cats as they are stand-offish with their attitude, IMO. But this over-simplication of "species" protection and criminal enterprises which ARE documented is interesting, in light of the stats on Killadelphia climbing.
At any rate, a "criminal profile" of a serial killer IS their treatment of animals, whether a pet or a stray. Jeffrey Dahmer is a recent example, if one would read his childhood history. He was not into the "criminal profiteering" aspect of dog-fighting or cock-fighting.
Then you have the "Una-Bomber" who was turned in by his own brother. Both raised in the same house, by the same parents; one "good" the other "crazy as road liz-zard". But he had to be stopped - period.
This "anti-snitch" thing is what bothers me personally. And the article about the 2 females that burned the kitten is equally disturbing, as females are historically much crueler than males. Which may explain why they are not allowed to be a "leader" in most groups, organizations or even some states. Males are afraid of some gender "payback" which never comes.
As for the "media coverage", it was never voted on (by me anyway) to not include the "race" in news storys. Nor was I consulted on referring to blacks as African Americans. But I found it amusing when my brother said: "So what are we supposed to call African immigrants? African-African Americans?" It is impossible to cover all the stories/events without offending someone for something anyway, so they usually generate viewership by using violence, sex, or "race".
BTW, I disagree; OJ did not kill his ex, which is why he went on that 30mph attempt to "escape", and her sister went from really blonde to "bottle black" overnight. And "no"; I was not in California at the time.
Cassandra
by the way, the majority of "white people" in the history of the world have not kept animals as pets; animals worked on farms. The "pet" phenomenon is a relatively recent by-product of the consumer society.
Some evidence about females being more cruel. Not empircal, but real data. Thanks.
Oh, and OJ did it. The DNA matched on most markers, it was just mishandled enough to raise reasonable doubt for the jury. "Not guilty" doesn't mean you are "innocent."
I hope Mr. Vick is put under the jail. Only scumbags stage animal fights.
Field, a lurker here. Of the top 25 petitions on PetitionOnline.com today,
#9 was "demand the conviction and MAXIMUM punishment of Michael Vick, the Quarter back of the Falcons football team for CRUELTY TO ANIMALS."
#12 was "Jena Six".
Though if you look at the huge disparity in news coverage, I say spot #12 is a real credit to the people who followed up and signed.
West Coast,
Please explain "empirical data" on females being more cruel vs. real data. If "The Diary of Anne Frank" can get published and corrupted depending on what "state leader" is doing it, then geez.
It is a "mans world" where the males make the "rules" and decide who and what is "promoted" vis a vis "marketing".
The common citizen vs. the "marketing executive" does not stand a chance. Now they have the Web as another "tool" to advance their "cause" of gender superiority.
Any woman I have ever talked to falls on one side or the other - predator or prey. They fight each other and with their "significant other". Sexuality aside; I have met some pretty scary females. Some males are set-up to become a "victim", and an older, wiser female can see it coming - "a bitch can always recognize another bitch - positive or negative". We just typically, let you go through the b.s. because you want to put some spin on it; then later, if you didnt meet/hook up with a "black widow" ask, "How did you know?"
Cassandra
Well, as an omnivore who finds himself disgusted by the reports of Vick's alleged dogfighting ring, I'll consider myself chastened. I know I've always been a bit bemused by the compassion meat-eating people feel for race horses, for example.
On the other hand, I'd like to think that the animals raised for food are slaughtered humanely (though I know that sometimes they are not), and I think that savagery like what has been described in regards to dogfighting needs to be punished.
Late on this one, but fine the brother and move on. He was dumb to get caught in this predicament, but I bet he's not dumb enough to NOT hire a good ass lawyer.
I just saw a preview of a report on dogfighting that will be on tonight's Paula Zahn show. The report includes undercover video footage. Of course, the perpetrators were black.
I find all of the recent intelligent discourse concerning the state of Vick's affairs and state of race in America quite amusing. You guys have made great points on both sides of the coin...
-Lets forget about using well reasoned agruments etc. save it for the classroom...hey we all have been to college. Lets just simply face the facts...
- everyday that I hear the "outrage" that white America has concerning this case, makes me want to puke... I do believe that dogfighting is wrong and if found guilty, those involved should be punished..but give me freaking break! People are saying that Vick should burn in hell..? They should kill him... Put him in jail for 10-20 years..? You people make me sick! The fact remains that white society as a whole..hates black people! I don't see mass protests by whites when those policemen in NY gunned down those young men during his wedding night... Where was the outrage when poor blacks and whites starved to death and drowned in New Orleans during Katrina.(by the way the place is still a mess.. Many don't have homes and there' 1000's of trailers not being used. Over 3000 of our children have died in Iraq to save a people who dont even want democracy.(next time take a look at all of the blacks that have died...and sacraficed their life for this racist country..not to mention whites as well who should be honored! You are upset about him "murdering" and allowing dogs to be "raped"..Let's all be honest if black people really knew what whites said about us behind closed doors it would make us cringe!I dont believe any of guys have the guts to tell the truth..What are you really saying? The truth is,blacks are treated less humanely than dogs. So go ahead and pat yourself on the back you spent millions of taxpayers dollars to prosecute one dogfighting case, and ignored many other cases of child neglect,abuse etc.. no benefits for Iraq war veterans. Speaking of animal abuse, what about Oscar de La hoya,doesnt he cock fight..I'm from Va and what about all those idiots with deer heads over the fire place??. These same idiots kill more deer than allowed.They go on trips to hunt bears. What about innocent untill proven guilty? I guess that really doesn't apply to people of color. I dont see any outrage when statistics have shown that blacks get many years more that whites for committing the same offenses with the same type of record.. blacks get paid less with same level of education and.. experience than there counterparts...Yeah you are right lets not talk about this..let's crucify some poor clown for dogfighting..when we all stand before God is he going to ask us how many whales did we save..or what did we do for our fellow man..yeah I do like to ramble!
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