Saturday, July 25, 2009

DIALOGUE.


I am over Skip Gates and his Cambridge beat down. I am going to take his advice and move on.

(That is, of course, until I hear the tapes that the Cambridge Solicitor's office is holding. Then we might have to revisit this bad boy.)

Still, given the tone of this debate, and the state of race relations in our beloved country, I find myself wanting to contribute to the dialogue and debate in a less emotional and passionate manner. I want to approach this race issue like an academic (kind of like Skip probably does) and try to understand the position of the folks in the majority population (as well as the black ones who side with them) who do not share my views.

Now living on the East Coast among a large cross section of non WASP whites, I hear this a lot: "I did not own slaves, I wish blacks in this country would just move on and stop playing the victim role. So they were slaves. The Irish were slaves, too, but you don't hear us bitching about it and making excuses." Or, "blacks are always playing the race card. Hell I am an Italian guy from South Philly, who likes to wear nice clothes and drive a nice car, and cops are always stopping me in my nice car, thinking I am a mobster or something." Or, "look at the Jews, they suffered, but look how much they have achieved. That is because they understand the value of a good education." Or, "before blacks start blaming whitey for everything, they should check their own neighborhoods. Blacks are killing other blacks in much greater numbers than whitey ever could." How am I doing?

And then there are the conservative blacks and right wing intellectuals. The folks who feel that the country white A-merry-cans built is under attack, and that the black victim card and the black animus for white institutions and white authority has been way over played. I will give you a little of that straight from the elephant's mouth. This is Elizabeth Wright, tearing down Debra Dickerson's book, The End Of Blackness: (Ironically, a book that is pretty much telling black folks to let go of the baggage of the past and move on)


"From the promotion of this book and from the first few pages of its Introduction, a reader comes to Debra Dickerson's The End of Blackness, expecting something other than an extensive catalogue of the sins and moral failings of whites. The author does get around to the book's supposed premise, which is a call to blacks to free themselves from obsession with past grievances and take responsibility for the choices and decisions they make, but not before she engages in a considerable amount of verbiage aimed at whites and their past crimes and present incivilities.


We first get, of course, a tour of the old horror stories of bigotry -- Emmett Till's murder, the duplicitous Tuskegee "experiment," Rosa Parks' humiliation, and so on. Then come the generalizations about whites, along with some peculiar contradictions. Whites refuse to accept the "full dimensions" of their wicked past. Whites subsist only on their "windfall of skin privilege," an implication that individual whites have achieved little through their own efforts. Whites believe so much in "their own infallibility," that when blacks fail to fit certain stereotypes, whites have to "build their own Frankensteins to fear and loathe." And this is why elderly white ladies clutch their purses at the sight of a black man, and why whites "tremble" when finding themselves in all-black settings.
She talks authoritatively about "white supremacy," which, apparently, like the term "racism," has been defined downward. In Dickerson's world, just about any behavior on the part of a white, that lacks at least some deference to the sensibilities of blacks, can get him slapped with the "white supremacist" label.


She saves her most accusative tone for white men, who are depicted as unreasonable belligerents, who stubbornly continue to resist sharing their piece of the pie with blacks -- an indication, somehow, of "masculinity" problems. She quotes a writer, referencing sports, with whom she agrees, who claims that black men have taken over the "symbols of manliness." To this, Dickerson observes that as long as black masculinity was kept "under lock and key," the "myth of white superiority" could prevail. "Why can't Walter Mitty identify with Walter Payton?" she asks.


As usual, this interplay between groups is not described in terms of the universal contest for power that exists wherever groups interact, but instead is interpreted as further proof of unique white malevolence. Why it would be normal behavior for any group of men, who have been dominant in their society, to allow themselves voluntarily to be displaced, is never a subject for discussion by such arbiters of castration politics.


Her depictions of the unyielding, recalcitrant white, who struts around like a know-it-all, egotistical peacock, had me wondering if she is paying attention to what's really happening in this society, or if her antenna is picking up signals from a distant era. Where are these preening whites, who are "insulated by privilege" from the problems of blacks and "simply choose not to know?" Is there really anywhere in this society where one can escape the relentless telling and retelling of the story of slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, and colored water fountains? Set upon with the type of charges made by people like Dickerson, and eager to comply with the rules of the race game, most whites strive to keep their heads below the radar, so as not to be slammed with the potentially ruinous accusation of "racist" -- the ultimate smear of smears. "




Now the tragedy of Ms. Wright's critique is that she approaches the subject of race in A-merry-ca like people in the majority would. (Oh, did I mention that Ms. Wright is black? Yes, and girlfriend might have some issues. But I digress. I am trying to be nice tonight.) Trying to judge the black experience and the complexities of the black race as if it all just started 10 years ago. That is impossible. It has to be judged in the context of the entire history of black people in this country. It has to take into effect that history's effect on our psyche, our families, our work ethic, and our mental state. This did not happen over night. Many of the experiences black people are going through today is a direct result of that history. ---And yes, the institutions that made this country---- Ms. Wright seems to be arguing that white men should not be ashamed of this country's history and should not be ashamed for wanting to hold on to power. Fine. But if that's the case, her position is not logically consistent, because to hold on to power one has to do things that would hurt those who are seeking to get some of it.

But let me go back to the start of my post and my non WASP white friends: I have said this before, and believe me I am getting tired of saying it. But it goes to the heart of this debate. Whether you are Irish, Polish,Italian, Jewish, German, and....whatever. You can walk into a room filled with similar people and no one would know it. Why? Because you look just like they do. If you are black, on the other hand, (even if you look like Skippy Gates) you can't hide. Your blackness comes before you. Before you say a word the color of your skin says it for you. And everyone in that group assumes whatever about you based on a life time of prejudices and experiences. That doesn't happen to the folks in the majority population, it just doesn't. That is why when people in the majority population give you the my ancestors came to this country argument you have to just laugh it off. Because their ancestors had the privilege of white skin. Something that they could not have survived without or could have imagined living without. Remember that old Chris Rock joke? About the white guy not trading places with him, and he is rich? "Sorry Chris, I think I will stick this white thing out." Yeah it was kind of like that in A-merry-ca.


Wright ends her article by talking about a man I have met and admire, Kenny Gamble. You know the conservative speech by now: How he pulled himself up by his "bootstraps," and blah blah blah. (As if every black man and woman in these divided states who happens to be alive as I write this damn post didn't pull him or herself up by their bootstrap. Nigger please! ) What she failed to mention is the many obstacles Gamble faced along the way because he is black. Now that he has persevered and reached the pinnacle of financial independence, he is to somehow be thankful for something special A-merry-ca gave him? What about the thousands like him who failed because A-merry-ca wasn't so giving because of how they looked or where they came from? Here is a news flash for you Elizabeth: If it wasn't for his music Kenny Gamble wouldn't have had the financial resources to buy up all that land in South Philly. So let's not go making his story one of those "all you have to do is work hard" one just yet.
Wright wants to know if there is anywhere in society we can go without hearing about "Jim Crow, lynchings, and colored water fountains". (She can't be serious.) She suggests that Dickerson must be picking up signals from a "distant era". But Ms. Wright would be well served to listen again. I would suggest that it is her antennas that's picking up those signals. And sadly, I think she wants to go back there.


Anyway, this post was kind of long, so I apologize. But I think it's appropriate, because it's been a long week.
My white friends, I am waiting to hear from you.







244 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 244 of 244
Black Diaspora said...

"I saw that movie some time ago, but I didn't know that Peck experienced troubles for starring in this film. That's interesting."

According to the account, Peck was the only one who didn't encounter a backlash for his involvement in the film.

As you know, he went on to have a very successful film career, despite it.

Deborah Lipstadt experiences read like a novel, and her eventual success after the libel accusation, the stuff of movies.

Twould it had been made into one. I will search out Lipstadt's book(s).

For his part, it seems that Irving was not only not vindicated, but his reputation took a severe drubbing at the hands of the court in their ruling.

Serves him right!

I'm looking forward to checking out the links you provided.

Jewish involvement in the Civil Rights' movement has always been common knowledge. To discount it is to substantiate the nefarious motives of the discounters.

Thanks for responding. Although reading some of the less-thoughtful posts around here is an exercise in futility, and a time-waster, I do, on occasion (as with this one) add to my storehouse of knowledge.

Sharon from WI said...

Professor Lipstadt's History On Trial is being optioned for a movie. But this doesn't mean that this is yet a go-ahead project.

http://lipstadt.blogspot.com/2009/04/history-on-trial-optioned-for-movie.html

BSweet said...

Anonymous A Person of Interest said...

How in the world do you "drag someone on a motorcycle"....for blocks?

5:49 PM

Anonymous - The people on the motorcycle hit him. He got caught on the bike and they didn't stop even though we were all screaming at them. I don't know what happened after that. My mom took me straight into the house. We were all in shock.

Black Diaspora said...

"So, call me fake. Or jungle fever. Whatever. I know my heart."

And stay true to it: It's your best guide.

I've been following the various dialogues you've had, and my only suggestion: Go back and read your first post. You got off on the wrong foot.

What followed was actually pretty predictable.

That said, I appreciate your sharing. Your commitment to finding common ground, and understanding the racial divide has to be commended.

Continue bringing your unique perspective to the table, and dialoguing with us.

I won't always promise you an easy time, but I will promise that we're reading and we're listening--and anyone not against us, have to be considered a potential friend.

Black Diaspora said...

Sharon from WI said...
"Professor Lipstadt's History On Trial is being optioned for a movie."

How about that! Thanks, Sharon. I'll follow the link.

Anonymous said...

problem: when you enter a room if the first thing you notice is someone's color," oh there are black/white people here"

we will never get over race if the first thingyou see if color and not a person.

grinder: why must you comment so much, it reminds me of a white professor I had that told me I shouldn't be offended at the word negro. Instead of listening or even considering my feelings (me being black) he lectured me in front of an all white class

Anonymous said...

BSweet

STFU UP Already! Take your white ass and get on a fast track to hell. Fake ass jungle fever heffa! I can't stand white ass heffas like you. You make me ill, bitch.

someposter said...

"Way to set back the discussion by putting this woman on the defensive. And you wonder why the debate won't go anywhere....

Set the chips off your shoulders for a second. No need to bite the woman's head off just because she made an ill-advised attempt at commiseration....although I bet she won't be doing any of this again."

Set the discussion back? GTFOH. I swear negros are so docile nowadsays. 400 years of straight ass kicking over and over has made the negro so docile in his desire to be non offensive to white folks.

I don't shuck and jive like this is 1955. When they try to brush me off the sidewalk I turn around a spill some shit on them "Oh I'm sorry, this sidewalk is tight". Give it to them like they dish it out and all this psych intimidation that they pull on the average bro in the streets comes to a crashing halt.

If she nor her people can't get together to solve this shit that they created, I don't really give a damn what this white woman will or won't be doing again. I see you miss anne pulling your crap over and over again on this board, it disrupts my reading and I do enjoy reading this excellent blog. You are not slick I was not fooled by your "look at me, I'm a white woman" act. LOL

La♥audiobooks said...

Bw in Chicago, you made a profound observation. I too noticed how that particular anony has been throwing boot, but for their own misguided agenda. Have you noticed how he/she has yet to productively guide Bsweet towards what she seeks to understand. I could only try.

Bsweet, more than once you have referenced black women being single due to their "attitudes". You're playing the chicken and egg debate. Perhaps you don’t know, but based on colorism, and other ingrained racial complexities among some black men and black women (via slavery and oppression). It's much more complex than what you evidently conceived. Looking at the dismissive things you have said previously, you clearly don’t understand the IR equation. No one was blaming you personally, but since you wanted to interject, you have yet to acknowledge the role your race may have played which may have been beneficial to you on the dating totem pole. Some black females could care less, but some still do. And by all rights it’s clearly disturbing due to the disparity and possible black female discriminating motives of some black men, and even some non-black men - just like it can be disturbing to black males knowing they can still get arrested for breaking into their own home. There is such a thing called white female privilege, and that too gets over looked or denied by too many white females.

Until then, I would also advise you to eliminate using that knee jerk statement about black females “attitudes” in connection to relationship status. It’s akin to victim blaming and the excuses used by race oppressors to dismiss and continue their oppression on others. Also, naming all the colors in your family or friendship circles to negate the racial perspective of others, or too camouflage your racial ignorance doesn't help either. I'm not trying to be offensive.

I also noticed in your comment dated 5:16 PM, you seem to better see and understand racism at the large scale levels. Racism, and ignorance can appear in various forms and on various levels. It can be just as frustrating and damaging even when it comes in a subliminal form. Make a little sense?

La♥audiobooks said...

Someposter at 8:52,

...and they say I'm cold blooded. LOL

Some black people on this blog (calling no names) treat me like the theme for Jaws comes on when I enter a thread.

Anonymous said...

"Some black people on this blog (calling no names) treat me like the theme for Jaws comes on when I enter a thread."

Nah. You're more like Dracula. Jaws was a warm-blooded creature.

someposter said...

Keep doing what you do La Incognita. All the back and forth is like boxing it builds your arms up.There are some knock-down drag out underground forums that I used to be part of where I was banned from one and the other I was found out (white supremacist site) and they deleted my account. It's guerilla training.

vanishing point said...

Black Diaspora, I always listen to your posts, your wisdom, to me u are an icon, but the stuff u say to bsweet, i just cant understand, of course, i want dialogue, but at what cost? of course i want bsweeet to continue to read fn, but she is so fucking insulting, and you seem to be adding insult to injury. can u really justify her saying "just get over it?
or saying that Black women are angry so they don't get dates?
do u really believe those things yourself?

vanishing point said...

Black Diaspora, i just like to add one last thing, bsweet constantly threaten to leave this blog, she is done, see to me, as a white person, that means, she has to be here on HER TERMS, or else. That is privlege, and I will never, ever condone or encourage that behavior,she can be here today, tommorrow, or the day aftet tomorrow, but it should not be on her terms just because that is what she wants.

oh, and i am not anybody's disciple.

La♥audiobooks said...

Kathy at 10:43pm, good point!

Black Diaspora said...

@Kathy: "[C]an u really justify her saying "just get over it?
or saying that Black women are angry so they don't get dates?
do u really believe those things yourself?'

Of course not! And neither do you!

There were a lot of harsh words that went back and forth.

There were things she said I didn't like, and there were things said to her I didn't like.

If the use of harsh words was the criteria for whether to dialogue or not to dialogue, then Frank, and his ilk, would have been ostracized long ago.

If it's any consolation, I understand your point, but I want to give everyone a chance to state their case, whether I agree with them or not.

Did you read my comments to Grinder?

In addition, I had this to say to bsweet:

"Go back and read your first post. You got off on the wrong foot.

"What followed was actually pretty predictable."


There're commenters on this blog that I refrain from engaging. They start off with the wrong assumptions--assumptions that would preclude substantive discussion of the topic.

If I was perceived to take sides in your discussion, it wasn't intentional.

But I don't want to discourage a commenter I believe came with good intentions, but got lost along the way.

If she leaves, the opportunity to shape her opinions leave with her.

I believe, as the blog entry a few pages up says, "It can be a teachable moment."

I believe that there's something there that is salvageable, and I operated on that notion.

Whether I'm right or wrong only time will tell.

By goal here is to give my perception of the world, and hope that others may question their own.

I can't change the hearts of anyone, but I can be the catalyst to encourage some to do their own soul searching.

Was this a "teachable moment" for bsweet? I believe so.

You challenged her assumptions; you gave her another view of her world, as well as offered your own worldview, and I think that we're all the better for it.

I followed the conversation with great interest, and remembered.

Wasn't that a conversation worth having?

"[O]h, and i am not anybody's disciple."

As well you shouldn't be. You're a Master unto yourself, possessing all knowledge.

No one can teach you anything you don't already know.

We learn by remembering what we know. We're "know it alls"!

Dark Moon said...

But I've been called out for stealing black men from black women? OMG, seriously? You cannot predict who a man will like. If you are a black woman who is not getting asked out on dates, maybe it's more your angry attitude than the color of your skin. I've noticed that people generally like people who are nice to them. I'm nice. Kindness is its own gift. Try it some time.

You were the one who interjected this insane insultingly condescending post script at the end of your post about the vagaries of Black women with our unsmiling visages, stank attitudes and disgust at White women stealing “our” supposed men as the reason why Black women can’t get a man. If you can accept that racism plays a huge part in how Black people are perceived, it stands to reason that Black woman will and often are judged harshly by Whites and non-Blacks as not suitable mates, either because of our physicality, our supposed culture that supposedly emphasizes pathology, and a host of other racist stereotypes that we are continually saddled with by people like you because we don’t sing and smile and kow tow and keep dancing about how happy we are. History has shown that has never worked and only made us seen as childlike slaves without a soul. Yet you felt it necessary to lecture black women with stunning patronizing idiocy of just smile and the world smiles with you platitude as to the reason why Black women are seen by many with negative stereotypes and assumptions. Black women have to deal with far more survival issues then White women so forgive us if weren’t able to smile on cue.

Your little postscript reminds me of that fake letter from Disgusted White Girl in Sister 2 Sister Magazine http://www.agoodblackman.com/mantalk_whitegirl.shtml that has been making the rounds around the internet for years:

Don't be mad with us White women because so many of your men want us. Get your acts together and learn from us and we may lead you to treat your men better. If I'm wrong, Black men, let me know.

Sound familiar.

Anonymous said...

guys people often carry around stereotypes, whether they know it or not. atleast some are trying to work it out. lets not fall down to the level of trading insult for insult. it doesnt achieve anything, only detracts from the issues at hand. yes bsweets first comments were condonscending, but insults later aimed at her were equally stupid. i commend laincognita for taking the high road and starting a proper dialogue

Anonymous said...

I am so convinced that white people have the mark of the beast. 666. How the hell else do you explain why they have so much hatred and animosity for people of color. Crazy ass bastards.

BSweet said...

I think I was angry and insulted by La Incognita saying the only reason a black man would be attracted to me is by virtue of my blonde/blue. I felt really attacked, so I came back at her with that attitude. It just went downhill from there.

I am listening. I've been on this blog for maybe a year or so before jumping in.

I absolutely agree that white people in America come from a place of privilege. I'm only trying to say that not all white people are against you.

But as a white person, yeah, I will admit that there are parts of town I don't go to. I would assume you wouldn't go there either. Unless you live there. That's where the problem comes in. It's way unbalanced. That's why I am here. I seek to balance the unbalanced. Even if it's really really tiny steps, it is in the right direction.

We have to talk or race relations will go backwards, and that's not what I want. I want people to be equal and not be judged by their complexion.

I've always admitted my approach is awkward, but I am trying. So I'm not good at dialogue? I can learn.

La Incognita - You seem like a very smart woman. I am too. We can talk without flaming each other. Try again?

BSweet said...

@ Black Diaspora - Thanks for giving me a chance. That's all I ask.

Also, in my being angry and lashing out at La Incognita, I pissed off every black woman on this board. I meant to insult her, not you. See where it got me? My mistake, and I apologize. It just went all wrong and I helped take it there.

Anonymous said...

Hey, created a profile. This is me. :)

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:52A "..i commend laincognita for taking the high road and starting a proper dialogue"

Anon, You should read the entire exchange between La Incognita and BSweet along with the others in the thread “I Wonder If Dr. Gates Stood Up For Her"-July 22. Because that’s where all of this childish crap against BSweet began.

Unless you are extremely biased, there is no way you can conclude that La Incognita took the high road.

BSweet came onto this blog to defend interracial relationships and marriages and herself as a white woman. Because some Blacks were trashing Gates because he was married to a white woman.

It was La Incognita who took the ‘low’ road in talking to BSweet. Of course, you can’t do that without making yourself look bad, also. But La Incog made no apology for her own prejudice against interracial relationships and marriages between black men and white women. However, she was ok with black women marrying men of ‘any’ race. Go figure.

La Incognita said, “For anyone who may be confused on my position on IR relationships: My main interest is geared towards the betterment of black females, and to see more black women in loving relationships/marriages with men or women of [any] race. I rarely support black males in IR relationships because there's nothing in it for black females. Literally. I make no apologies if I seem bias. Due to rampant colorism, and intra-gendered racism that many black men have bestowed on black women, I am forced to be bias and unapologetic.”

It gets me that no one can be big enough or honest enough to be responsible for their own part in this ugly mess. La Incognita was THE biggest instigator, as anyone who took the time to read the comments in that post knows. But some people want to make La Incognita look innocent and put it all on BSweet. Amazing!

FWIW, BSweet made commendable efforts in reaching out on a very real human heartfelt level, but La Incognita did not reciprocate. In fact, she tried to tear BSweet down. That's pretty cold hearted.

I encourage everyone to read the thread “I Wonder If Dr. Gates Stood Up for Her” and you will see.

Anonymous said...

BSweet "La Incognita - You seem like a very smart woman. I am too. We can talk without flaming each other. Try again?"

There you go again...have you forgotten already? Again, there ARE some people with good hearts, even great hearts on this blog. Why fool around with JAWS?

vanishing point said...

Black Diaspora,
Thank you so much for your response, I learned a lot from what you said.

grinder said...

grinder: why must you comment so much

Diahhrea of the keyboard, I suppose. I'm not the only one, and without it the whole blogging phenomenon wouldn't exist

grinder said...

No one can teach you anything you don't already know.

As long as we're throwing out one-liners, how about this one that just came to me: "You can't teach if you're not willing to learn."

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:30 pm - I am going to keep on trying. Somehow I went wrong. I did intend to defend interracial relationships. I do feel slammed by La. But I can't stop trying. I feel a chance to grow here, and if I mess it up, it's my own fault. I'm here to learn and to express myself.

I think I was trying to communicate with La Incognita personally, but you can't do that on a big blog like this. The nuances of speech get missed, and people tend to pick up one line of what I said, or not notice that I wrote another post before, which explains the next one. It's easy to get lost in all the people!

I am saying, I apologize to La Incognita for my part in our miscommunication. I didn't mean to. I was very angry and insulted by what you said. I bet you feel the same way about me!

To the black women on this board, I am a woman too. I'm a person first, of course, but as a woman I totally hear you. I said some dumb stuff that got taken wrong, and I can't take it back. But I can say, Whoops! Fucked up. Sorry 'bout that. Can we please keep communicating?

I bet anything LaIncognita is very smart and there's a chance she would maybe even like me, had we met under different circumstances.

I feel that's a lot like how black/white communication happens in the physical world, not just blogs. But the miscommunications here are an example of what we face in reality.

I am not perfect. I am a person. I live every day trying my best to do what I feel is right. I've got brass cojones for a white woman. Ain't going to waste and I'm not backing down and leaving this board. It's only by practicing and attempting to communicate that we will lessen the width between ourselves.

Anyways, La, you can write me or not, but I have said my piece. Peace.

grinder said...

I am saying, I apologize to La Incognita for my part in our miscommunication.

I'm not sure I'd spend a whole lot of time apologizing to La Icognita if I were you. She pretty much specializes in calling every white man or woman a racist, no matter what. You will always be guilty in her eyes for having committed the sin of not being born black.

Black Diaspora said...

grinder said...
"No one can teach you anything you don't already know.

"As long as we're throwing out one-liners, how about this one that just came to me: "You can't teach if you're not willing to learn."

Helping another remember, puts you on the fast track to remembering.

I learn/remember a lot from those that post here.

For that, I'm grateful.

@Kathy: "I learned a lot from what you said."

And I, from you.

Anonymous said...

BSweet "I bet anything LaIncognita is very smart and there's a chance she would maybe even like me, had we met under different circumstances."

Several posters have suggested that you leave LaIncognita alone and to "move on." Again, there are so many other women on this blog who are much kinder, not that it takes very much to beat her. You should 'seriously' go back and read her comments to you before you try a 'repeat'. Whatever. Good luck.

Anon11:52A, Anon12:30A,(GU)

Olen said...

I'm tired of all the BS that has been directed at BSweet. You can attack for being ignorant to our plight, but the bitches who are attacking for being with a black man need to cease and desist. If the most insulting thing you can say about her is about her "jungle fever ass", you need to go outside, get a weed brownie and evaluate your life. These ignorant and overly angry posters are successfully making all black women look like bitter broads who will sell our own down the river for fucking someone who doesn't look like us. I know that as black females, we are treated worse than animals at times. But that doesn't give you the excuse to villify us and another person just because of who that person chooses to be with. I'm not some white bitch or house negro. I am just a nappy-haired, west african women that hates seeing anger being wasted on something so frivilous.

Anonymous said...

"I'm tired of all the BS that has been directed at BSweet. You can attack for being ignorant to our plight, but the bitches who are attacking for being with a black man need to cease and desist. If the most insulting thing you can say about her is about her "jungle fever ass", you need to go outside, get a weed brownie and evaluate your life."

Amen. Thank you, Olen. I knew there had to be women such as yourself out there, who would speak out against their vile BS. Thank you.

rubato said...

In the wake of "Gatesgate" I have been discovering more and more African-American blogs. I am a white American male and have lived in Paris, France for 30 years. I'm also a jazz musician. I grew up in a housing project with lots of black people and later attended a high school which was 50/50 White/Black.
When I think of Black Americans and their culture, I feel great respect and affection.
I support our President. He has got one tough job. Let's try and push him in the right direction. He is after all, a politician and therefore sometimes bound to disappoint us.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I think the term "jungle fever" insults both races.

Anonymous said...

"Yeah, I think the term "jungle fever" insults both races."

That's not the only insulting terms used. There were worse ones.

Anonymous said...

BD "I've been following the various dialogues you've had, and my only suggestion: Go back and read your first post. You got off on the wrong foot.

What followed was actually pretty predictable."

Maybe it was predictable for you but what followed for me was unnecessary and vile. And it didn't come from BSweet, either.

BD:"Continue bringing your unique perspective to the table, and dialoguing with us."

BD:"I won't always promise you an easy time, but I will promise that we're reading and we're listening--and anyone not against us, have to be considered a potential friend."

Who is "us"? Who are you speaking for?

TrueBlue said...

Here's a novel idea: People ought to be able to be intimate with whoever they choose to, for whatever reason they choose to, at any time they choose to, in any place they choose to, without having people stomp all over them for it.

How simple is that, anyway?

Anonymous said...

@grinder,
"Here's a novel idea: People ought to be able to be intimate with whoever they choose to, for whatever reason they choose to, at any time they choose to, in any place they choose to, without having people stomp all over them for it.

How simple is that, anyway?"

What!?! You want to use common sense, good-will and consideration for your fellow human beings? Have you lost your ever-loving mind?

That's waaay too simplistic for those looking to antagonize and divide along racial and gender lines.

grinder, that's the trouble with people who think like you do. You tend to look for solutions that lead to peace. Go back to the drawing board and come up with something a little more meaningful to the hate mongers on this blog.

You must be from the same place that Seattle Slim is from cause you sound all wet.

Dark Moon said...

I'm tired of all the BS that has been directed at BSweet. You can attack for being ignorant to our plight, but the bitches who are attacking for being with a black man need to cease and desist. If the most insulting thing you can say about her is about her "jungle fever ass", you need to go outside, get a weed brownie and evaluate your life. These ignorant and overly angry posters are successfully making all black women look like bitter broads who will sell our own down the river for fucking someone who doesn't look like us. I know that as black females, we are treated worse than animals at times. But that doesn't give you the excuse to villify us and another person just because of who that person chooses to be with. I'm not some white bitch or house negro. I am just a nappy-haired, west african women that hates seeing anger being wasted on something so frivilous.

****************************

I could honestly care less who she is with, but I certainly took exception to her stating that the reason why Black women are losers is because we have attitudes and didn't smile enough. She generalized all Black women whereas she responded defensively when others generalized her race and gender and couldn't seem to see why some Black women were defensive. She makes it seem that all Black women are trying to kill her because she was with a Black man, while conveniently ignoring the fact that many White men find White women who have been with Black women untouchable or the fact that many Black men are just as culpable in labeling Black women race traitors if they were with a non-Black man. But often time Black women are the only ones labeled as being rabidly intolerant of IR when those of us of the X generation and younger could care less.

So, if I am a bitter Black broad for pointing out her own hypocrisy, then so be it. But if she really had a personal beef with a specific poster in her original post, then she should have included that person’s name in her original postscript instead of painting all Black women as defensive angry unsmiling ball busters.

Olen said...

@Dark Moon,

You should take exception to that. I was just directing that to the cowards who were attacking her for being with a black man.

Anonymous said...

@Olen,

I agree. People are entitled to be with whomever they chose. What assinine arrogance they have!

alicia banks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lorna Doone said...

Hi! Heard you last week on NPR discussing the Gates arrest, and subsequently looked up your blog.

I am a white woman, raised in the western U.S. by parents who were never overtly racist. Since the Nov. election, I've been having discussions with my dad (age 72) about manifestations of racism (subtle and not-so-subtle) in my parents' and their friends' reactions to Pres. Obama.

For the record, my parents are good friends with an African American couple with whom they recently traveled to Europe, and have several African friends - they are not your classic bigots.

While my dad will admit certain facts about the racial situation in this country, he invariably launches into the "blacks should quit playing the victim" argument, and other lines of reasoning that deflect responsibility from whites.

Believe me, my parents and their peers (conservative Christian ranchers and business owners) have minimal awareness/sensitivity re. "the story of slavery, Jim Crow, lynchings, and colored water fountains," and they have no interest whatsoever in deepening their knowledge.

Elizabeth Wright asks, "Where are these preening whites, who are 'insulated by privilege' from the problems of blacks and 'simply choose not to know?'" Well, Elizabeth, meet me in the Rocky Mountains and I'll introduce you to a whole bunch of 'em.

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