Friday, July 23, 2010

"Hot Fun In The Summertime": Not!


It's been a tough week here in A-merry-ca. Many of you Negroes found a new reason to bail on your boy, O. He allowed the FOX right wing propaganda machine to bully him and control the debate, and he looked weak. And, doggone it, us black folks want our man to look like he belongs when he is siting in the most powerful seat on earth. We don't want a weakling who looks like he is afraid of that ghastly conservative, shadow.

But enough about that. Tonight I want to talk about a serious subject: summer vacation. Yes, summer vacation; and why these crumb snatchers out here no longer need it.

I never knew that I would live to see the day, but I actually agree with David Von Drehle writing in Time Magazine, when he says that schools should pretty much do away with the long summer breaks. Now, granted, we both might have come to the same place for two different reasons. I know why I came here. It was his hypothesis and his citing of the Johns Hopkins study:

"..childhood and summertime. We associate the school year with oppression and the summer months with liberty. School is regimen; summer is creativity. School is work and summer is play. But when American students are competing with children around the globe who may be spending four weeks longer in school each year, larking through summer is a luxury we can't afford. What's more, for many children — especially children of low-income families — summer is a season of boredom, inactivity and isolation.

Deprived of healthy stimulation, millions of low-income kids lose a significant amount of what they learn during the school year. Call it "summer learning loss," as the academics do, or "the summer slide," but by any name summer is among the most pernicious — if least acknowledged — causes of achievement gaps in America's schools. Children with access to high-quality experiences can exercise their minds and bodies at sleep-away camp, on family vacations, in museums and libraries and enrichment classes. Meanwhile, children without resources languish on street corners or in front of glowing screens. By the time the bell rings on a new school year, the poorer kids have fallen weeks, if not months, behind. And even well-off American students may be falling behind their peers around the world.
(See pictures of summer programs designed to keep kids' minds sharp.)

And what starts as a hiccup in a 6-year-old's education can be a crisis by the time that child reaches high school. A major study by researchers at Johns Hopkins University concluded that while students made similar progress during the school year, regardless of economic status, the better-off kids held steady or continued to advance during the summer — while disadvantaged students fell back. By the end of grammar school, low-income students had fallen nearly three grade levels behind. By ninth grade, roughly two-thirds of the learning gap separating income groups could be blamed on summer learning loss."


He had me when he started talking about the achievement gap widening for low income children because of summer breaks.

Look, I know that the folks in the travel and amusement park businesses will not like my position on this subject. Not to mention all the teachers who consider the long summer break one of the few perks of their profession. ( I know that they are underpaid, and when they teach an extra month they should earn more money) But sorry, we are in a crisis mode when it comes to education in this country, and if it means that the little crumb snatchers will have to be in a structured environment learning for a few extra weeks, I am all for it. Read the article, there are quite a few programs working right now with this concept in mind.

America is no longer the agrarian society it used to be. We don't have to give kids time off to go out and work in the fields. We should be teaching and preparing them; training their minds. Because a summer is not a terrible thing to waste. A mind, on the other hand, is.




98 comments:

Shady_Grady said...

That sounds like more of an argument to work on achievement gaps within the US than to cancel summer vacations for EVERYONE.

If I am within the higher performing group it doesn't make sense for me to give up summer breaks as even by this argument, I'm not losing anything. It's the other kids who evidently need more time in school.

I think that summer vacations "learning loss" might be a proxy for other things. Perhaps it should be optional for at-risk kids.

I don't know that any amount of social intervention can make the difference in achievement between one kid whose parents buy him the latest video game and let him watch TV all week long and another kid whose parents are taking him to museums or jazz concerts or observatories.

The Minority Militant said...

Speaking of education, did you hear what happened in DC with the teachers? 241 canned. I'm no so crazy about Rhee firing all those teachers under a program (IMPACT) that's not been proven effective yet.

Val said...

Yeah, no White kids goof-off during the summer. They're all at academic camp. And all Black kids are hanging out on street corners. That's basically what Von Drehle is saying, right?


@The Minority Militant

Michelle Rhee is a hack. All she knows how to do is threaten teachers or fire them.

Smashed The Tiny Black Box said...

As a parent, I say end the summer break. My kid will end school next week and will be off for August. (I don't live in America right now.) I'm not plowing a field or harvesting corn, but I now have to stock up on workbooks and videos so that he doesn't loose too much knowledge. I'm one of those parents with no patience that should not homeschool, btw.

I have resources to find things for my kids to do. Some parents don't. I don't like the implication that no white children goof off and get into trouble, but inner city kids do, but the author has a point about global competitiveness.

La♥audiobooks said...

Field, I don't fully agree. Children can also get burned out academically. Too much for me to get into.

And I never thought summer break/vacation was just for the children, some parents can see it as a benefit, family trips/vacations etc. As a parent and as a motorist I'm always appreciative when school closes, where I live its lesser traffic for me in the mornings.

The only problem I have is that percentage of idle children who get into mischief, because they have no supervision or their parents are too broke to enroll them in camps. Again, too much for me to get into.

Well said...

The education problem is indeed multifaceted. As far as summer vacations go, they could be shortened or eliminated altogether. We are faring to poorly compared to other developed countries to spend the summer day dreaming. However, that is only the start of some big changes we need to make.

We need to pay teachers proper salaries. We also need teachers with expertise in their field, especially in high school. No more people teaching biology without even a minor in the subject. And if we want to attract to people with the proper qualifications then we need to pay them a market rate.

La♥audiobooks said...

Well I'm sorry, I still don't want my child to be deprived of summer break because some parents need all-year-round baby sitters in a class room. And yes too many less fortunate children of all colors do goof off and get into idle trouble during summer time - and yes many of them are black youths. Call it what it is.

Well said...

I have resources to find things for my kids to do. Some parents don't. I don't like the implication that no white children goof off and get into trouble, but inner city kids do, but the author has a point about global competitiveness.


Many, if not most, inner city children do not have a two-parent system in the house. Hence, there is a much less chance that they will have a disciplining hand, or that their single parent will have the money or time to see that they have an educationally fulfilling summer. Also, unlike the suburbs, summer in the inner city can often be a dangerous time. Homicides, gang activity, theft etc. all go up during the summer months.

Hathor said...

It might help if during the school year, the students had finished all of the material.
Can't loose stuff you never learned or were taught.

If you can teach a chimp sign language, why is it that a child 6 years old can't learn to read?
The teachers have found excuses from sociologist. If literate parents were needed for children to be able to learn to read, then no 18th 19th or 20th century illiterate immigrant's child would have. Some how Black children can't read because there parents didn't read to them or widened their horizons.

I think the problem is that many teachers have no expectations, have prejudices, race or class and think perfect children are necessary, in order to teach.

What I want to know is how Black people of my grandmother's generation went to school six months a year and only completed a ninth grade education and were better educated than most high school graduates are now?

Hathor said...

Another thing that makes me go hmmmmmmmm.

How is it that in college you cover the same material in a third of the time as you do in high school? Does your mind change suddenly, when you graduate from high school? I think students waste too much time in high school. 200 hours in American History and still know little about American History.

Well said...

Children of your grandmother's age didn't live in communties rife with joblessness, broken families, crime, and drugs. For example, studies conducted on children in south central Los Angeles found that young people were suffering from post traumatic stress levels equivalent to those living in war torn countries.

http://www.giftfromwithin.org/pdf/parson.pdf


Furthermore, about 35 percent of black children to day grow up in poverty. This isn't poverty of yesteryear either. Sociologists have noted that poor but working communities of early mid-twentieth century have been replaced with communites where few if any people are working-many metro ares in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, LA, Oakland etc. are good examples of this. When work becomes scarce, work ethic becomes scarce.

field negro said...

These are interesting responses. I am sure that where you stand on this subject might also depend on whether you have children and their ages.

Trust me, like the rest of you, I am desperately seeking solutions to the educational problems in this country; particularly among poorer children.

And yes, affluent kids goof off in the summer as well. But they also go to academic camps and on foreign trips etc. Unfortunately, the poorer kids do not have these options.

I am waiting for someone to call me the S word. Look, this might not be for every school. But school districts should certainly be allowed to give their school less summer vacation time depending on the needs of their students.

Anonymous said...

field the mind need to rest too much school work can burn out a child

field negro said...

"The teachers have found excuses from sociologist. If literate parents were needed for children to be able to learn to read, then no 18th 19th or 20th century illiterate immigrant's child would have. Some how Black children can't read because there parents didn't read to them or widened their horizons.

I think the problem is that many teachers have no expectations, have prejudices, race or class and think perfect children are necessary, in order to teach."

Hathor, that is an interesting point. And there is no doubt that many of the teachers are slackers. But my experience with educators is that most of them are very dedicated people and they know what they are doing. One of the problems they often face is the internal politics of the school boards and local governments.

Lawd forgive me, but I am actually agreeing with Well on some of his points. UTS please hurry back. :)

I have known for a long time that when it comes to education the conservative side of my brain always kicks in.

field negro said...

"field the mind need to rest too much school work can burn out a child"

I don't know Anon. Would four more weeks be asking too much?

Anonymous said...

A child doesn't have to have private camps or tutors for an enriching summer experience. I spent summers exploring, reading, playing kick the can. There is more to be learned than from rote instruction within the classroom. My grandmother went to grade school in Missouri with a boy who was always in trouble for day dreaming. He was named Walt Disney. There is more to this learning differential than can be bridged with public school instruction. In my opinion, these children are lacking in expectations and guidance.

Hathor said...

FN,
Would it be four more weeks of the SOS?


Well,

My grandmother grew up in the 19th century.

Smashed The Tiny Black Box said...

Well I'm sorry, I still don't want my child to be deprived of summer break because some parents need all-year-round baby sitters in a class room.

I want my child to be able to compete in mathematics and science with with their contemporaries in developing nations. Most children in America just can't presently.

I'd rather give them the tools they need now to economically survive than take them to Disneyland and let them chill out poolside. They can do that on their own dime as successful adults.

Well said...

Lawd forgive me, but I am actually agreeing with Well on some of his points. UTS please hurry back. :)


Huh, it's interesting you lump me in with UTS; my position is not a conservative (conservative Republican, anyway) position. Most conservatives downplay or dismiss structural factors; most liberals downplay or dismiss cultural ones.

Education is not just failing in the urban environment-though its failure is most spectacular there-it's failing everywhere. We need to turn our attention and resources back to education from K through college. Cut military spending and our silly wars and start nation building here at home.

La♥audiobooks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
La♥audiobooks said...

"I want my child to be able to compete in mathematics and science with with their contemporaries in developing nations. Most children in America just can't presently."

I agree, but many of those children you see as competitors suffer with depression and suicidal tendencies at a higher rate due to the academic pressure in their cultures, its a double edge sword. I have respect for those nations who produce engineers and scientist we compare our children to, but there is also a high price many of them pay, you don't hear about it. Are we ready to deal with that too? There has to be some middle ground, a few posters above made some good points.

Field, yes I think the average child would get burned out, so will some teachers. I hate school to this day.

Anonymous said...

field yes i think extra four weeks on a child will burn them out if its the same ole bullshit but if the setting change then its okay like if they go on lots of field trips and learn to APPLY what theyve learned in real world settings then burn out will be minimal cuz learning will be fun but if the current trends continue AND you take away they vacation then you set them up for hating school like lab say
the real problem is that school is out of sync with the real world and it need to be shifted for to reflect the current trends this means more technology in classroom more use of application techniqe

Anonymous said...

Well is misunderstood he aint a coon and today uts mistook his points i seen it but dont write as good as well but got the gist of what he say

Moufbreatha said...

"I want my child to be able to compete in mathematics and science with with their contemporaries in developing nations. Most children in America just can't presently."

I have been in both the British and US school systems and there is a HUGE difference: The US system impedes independent study and advancement. Under the US system, teachers are so burdened with arbitrary guidelines and a set pace that any child who wants to go above and beyond is discouraged, lest they advance too quickly or take on "too much."
It's kind of out of control. Also, red tape is often a means for teachers to protect themselves from students who may advance beyond their own grasp of the material.

"How is it that in college you cover the same material in a third of the time as you do in high school? Does your mind change suddenly, when you graduate from high school? I think students waste too much time in high school. 200 hours in American History and still know little about American History."

It's because in the US grade school, they waste TOO MUCH TIME on busywork and rote memory, rather than critical thinking and substance. American students are better equipped at arts and crafts from doing so many stupid projects than they are at actually knowing the material.

Anonymous said...

"field the mind need to rest too much school work can burn out a child"

I find it interesting that folks on this blog are concerned that the kids' mind might burn out with four extra weeks in America.

American kids continue to fall behind the rest of the world and folks are against 4 extra weeks of education that could help their minds grow and be better competitors in the world.

Instead, folks are afraid their kids minds might "burn out". LOL

This country is SOOOO done!

Anonymous said...

Shady Grady "If I am within the higher performing group it doesn't make sense for me to give up summer breaks as even by this argument, I'm not losing anything. It's the other kids who evidently need more time in school."

Yes it does because your higher performing group is still mediocre in the world. It's people like you that continue to settle for less by claiming their are better. sick, sick, sick.

Anonymous said...

Laa, "Well I'm sorry, I still don't want my child to be deprived of summer break because some parents need all-year-round baby sitters in a class room. And yes too many less fortunate children of all colors do goof off and get into idle trouble during summer time - and yes many of them are black youths. Call it what it is."

You are right. Some kids just won't be able to benefit from extra weeks of education. Unfortunately, they will be kids like yours. But look on the bright side: they get to spend some fun time with you instead of sitting in a classroom getting smarter.

I don't know why Field thought it would be a good idea to try to keep up the rest of the world. He must have forgotten that this is America where we sacrifice nothing.

WE BELIEVE IN INSTANT GRATIFICATION AND IF THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE, IT'S NOT WORTH IT!!!

Lucky said...

I've been reading for a while, but I'm a teacher so I thought I'd weigh in.

1st - I need the break as much as the kids do. Like you said, Field, it's the only perk of being a teacher. We certainly don't do it for the money.

2nd - Unless the system is changed, another 4 weeks of school won't make any difference. Currently, in all three school systems in different cities I've worked in to date, the focus is not on learning how to think, but on learning how to take a standardized test. I've seen English curriculums that include recognizing what kind of question is being asked (is it a main idea question? Making an inference?), and using that information to figure out the answer. The test is God, and everyone worships. Students don't learn how to read and think, they learn to perform on one day of the school year, and they learn that nothing else is really that important.

Maybe summer learning loss happens because students are trained to believe that what they have learned matters only in terms of the test, and once that is over, what's the point of remembering it?

Also, even though the test is God, in the end it really doesn't mean much until a student is in high school. Social promotion is the norm in the early to middle grades - the kids who are really far behind get shunted off to Special Ed for "emotional" or "behavior" problems. Fail the standardized test, and worst case scenario you'll have to go to summer school, where presumably you'll learn what you didn't learn in an entire year. How likely is that?

3rd - in my opinion motivation is everything. The kids know that if they don't pass their tests, they are still going on to the next grade but I might get fired. A few kids are motivated by good grades and can understand that what they do today will affect their future. The rest of them could care less. Why on earth should they be motivated to study and do well if I am the one who will be punished if they don't do well? The sheer force of my wonderful personality?

Black Diaspora said...

I'm going to approach this whole topic differently. One of my aims in the blogosphere has been to challenge the norm, conventional thought, and thinking.

What I'm about to say very few, if any of you, will agree with (at least not at first, maybe not at all). Some of you will agree a little, while others will disagree a lot, and no one will agree with me completely.

I will anger some, intrigue some, while others will dismiss me altogether.

That's what usually happens when ideas of this magnitude and novelty are presented, especially when they deal with a hierarchy of values, which these do.

Here goes:

Childhood is more important than adulthood.

Play is more important than work. Imagination is more important than scripted thought.

Creativity is more important than intellectual pursuit (although intellectual pursuit may be pursued imaginatively and creatively).

Feelings are more important than thinking.

Non-thinking is more important than thinking.

That last idea may strike you as pure nonsense. Actually, the last two ideas may appear nonsensical, but that's owning to how we approach our day-to-day reality, or what passes for our reality.

Our souls have one longing, and that's to be free. For those of you that may not believe in souls, let me rephrase the statement.

That part of you that craves, longs for, freedom--to live life without restrictions, without limitations (every boy's dream to be a Superman, and every girl's dream to be a Wonder Woman, or live out some other fantasy of an illimitable experience)--that's the essence of which I speak.

Often that craving and longing take form, and is translated, as recklessness, wild adventurism, and dangerous experimentations.

Drug addiction, as well as other addictions (compulsions to satisfy the insatiable) become their pursuit, whether its achieving that elusive high--climbing a mountain, driving fast cars, jumping off a bridge into a lake from a moving car--or searching for it.

The impulse to be free has for now, for them, become as confining as any jail or prison.

Childhood is so important that those who miss out, usually, but not always, spend the remainder of their lives searching for it (Peter Pans). Michael Jackson, for one. The most well-known of this type.

Others, mostly child celebrities, for example, oftentimes, but not always, enter adulthood with a plethora of problems that they couldn't seem to shake while growing up. (Gary Coleman, and a host of others).

Imagination was a big assist to Einstein in the forming of his theories, and to Thomas Edison, the inventor, who was known to sleep on a problem to solve it, although he never slept all that long.

Work should be fun. If you can't find the play (fun) in it, it will strangle the soul, and that won't work for you.

Gut checks (resorting to our feelings), if truly followed, would keep us out of most of our troubles, but, too often, we ignore them to our regret. How many times have you heard a person say, "If only I had followed my feelings on this or that"?

For Bible readers, let me put it this way:

Taking thought (thinking) can't "add one cubit unto [your] stature."

And we're further admonished:

"Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?"

Thinking has one purpose, and one purpose only: To create. That's it.

Now, "not to think," that's were life begins. The problem with thinking is that we muck things up when we do. When we're not thinking, life can, at last, flow through us without interruptions, without limitations, and restrictions.

And you're free. Which is what you're craving and longing for, anyway. Try it!

Shady_Grady said...

The highest performing American students are not mediocre by world standards. Read The Manufactured Crisis or the latest work by Diane Ravitch.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/education-spin/

http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/viewFile/626/748

http://theeddjourney.com/Documents/ED5003.Ideology.pdf

http://epicpolicy.org/publication/what-they-did-vacation-its-not-schools-that-are-failing-poor-kids

2/3 of American schools are performing above average or at average levels. It's the lower skilled students/schools that need the attention.

But as I wrote, if someone is content in letting their child watch TV all day long, if someone has no interest in making sure their child has a large robust vocabulary, if someone has the latest and greatest cell phone apps or video games but doesn't take their child to the library, those actions are going to be reflected in an achievement gap. Taking away summer vacation from EVERYBODY because of low performance by SOME makes no sense.

There's also the little question of $$$ to pay for an extension of the school year...

Anonymous said...

FN: Wish UTS were here to see this. But then again, he doesn't believe in the achievement gap.

Well: Great points. And you are not on the same wavelength of UTS.

Hathor: You are comparing apples to oranges. The social ills of todays poor and inner city youth and systemic damage of the family unit is much different. Not a strong argument on your part. I wonder how much time you have spent in the classrooms of impoverished communities. Also, when we look at data of Afro-Schools or African American themed schools, the achievement of black students by black teachers is just as dismal as non-themed schools. Scary.

Great post FN.

Anonymous said...

That's what usually happens when ideas of this magnitude and novelty are presented, especially when they deal with a hierarchy of values, which these do

Um, not so magnitudious or novel. Sorry. Good information, but nothing new or amazing. To say the least, I was let down by the post after you previewed it with such a strong statement.

Frank Drackman said...

My Dad made me go to Summer School after 9th grade...
I had good grades, played baseball/football/basketball, but he didn't want me to fall in with the wrong crowd during the summer...
That Summer of 77' was the best ever, smoked my first dope, dropped my first acid, and got my first blow job...
and not from a dude, it was 1977 Orange County California, the Homo's still knew there place...
and Summer's the one time I don't have to pay Private School tuition.

Frank "If I join the Klan, Filibuster the Civil Rights Act, and vote against Thurgood Marshall, can I get a National Day of Mouring too" Drackman

Hathor said...

anon 6:54,
It is apparent that you don't know anything about
impoverished communities or the inner city.

Also you probably live in some dream world where "Father knows best". Dysfunctional families have always existed in all communities, but has had little impact on the education system.

Lets just say separate and unequal is still the modus operandi. So yes, I know of what I speak, both my child and I have been in such schools.

Hathor said...

FN,
When I speak of prejudices in the system. Here is an example. My child wanted to take Calculus at Community college. Even though he ad take the prerequisite courses in high school, he was not allowed. He had to take a pre-calc course, because he had went to a specific school with 99% Black students. He was not tested, they did not check his SAT math score, which was on par with Central High's, it was automatically assumed that he needed extra help.

I think too many Black children get categorized as not being capable or automatically being at a disadvantage, because of their race or back ground, usually at a very young age. Then they get treated accordingly. It may not be done maliciously and is probably an unconscious response, but none the less it is ignored as a causal reason of learning failure.

One of the major reasons Americans are behind in science and math is that it is not taught and if it is, many times by people who know little about their subjects. When I was in High School right after Sputnik was launched, there was a great effort to push science and math. All kinds of money poured into programs. The National Science Foundation had summer programs in colleges for high schools students. I was fortunate to be able to attend as a sophomore in high school. The classes were in Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Calculus and a few related subjects. I took one course on radioisotopes. These courses were taught by college professors, some PhD's, as if you were in college.

Most all school systems revamped their curriculum to improve science and math.
As a consequence, the US got more scientist and engineers and had a more literate scientific populace.

I don't know if you noticed, but we are now living in an anti-intellectual age, where illiteracy, innumeracy is applauded and science is challenged by the latter.

field negro said...

Hathor, the story you told about your son is what I am talking about when I talk about the politics of education. They should have checked your son's scores and /or tested him. Curious: Was this CCOP?


BD, your position is not that out of the main stream. (You and La~audio seem to be saying the same thing) Inner satisfaction and self worth does come with being content with what you are doing.

My problem is that I interact with quite a few young people and they can't seem to do basic things in the right way. Spelling their name is a problem, and basic reading comprehension is lacking. I think that in order to get to the place that you are speaking of they have to master the basics, first.

Lucky, thank you for your input. BTW, my mother was an educator and a teacher all of her life. And she was very passionate about this subject. She wrote books and papers on the subject and consulted with the Jamaican government about revamping the system of education there. So I have mad love and respect for teachers.

“It’s because in the US grade school, they waste TOO MUCH TIME on busywork and rote memory, rather than critical thinking and substance. American students are better equipped at arts and crafts from doing so many stupid projects than they are at actually knowing the material."

Moufbreatha that was well put.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how much time you have spent in the classrooms of impoverished communities.

The above is what I said Hathor, please quote me correctly, not what you want to think I said or what you want me to say.

Hathor, this following statement is the most stupid statement you have ever posted:

Dysfunctional families have always existed in all communities, but has had little impact on the education system.

Yes dysfunction is in all communities, but if you don't think that has a bearing on a child's readiness to learn, then you have not SPENT TIME in public schools. I have been to the doctor Hathor, but a doctor I am not. I have found many parents think because they have been to school or even volunteered in a classroom they "get it". You are wrong.

Perhaps you should read some research by Ben Levin, Pedro Noguera, G. Dei, Weis or Fine. All researchers who have spent countless hours in schools. What happens at home has a huge impact on student success. I almost cannot believe you posted that. To believe there is wide spread lowered expectations is ludacris. It happens, I have seen it and researched it, but it's not the norm.

AB has been a teacher and has spoken volumes about how dysfunctionality plays out in schools.

field negro said...

"I wonder how much time you have spent in the classrooms of impoverished communities."

Anon. I don't think that was for me, but just in case it was; I am not a teacher, so not as much as you. But I have spent countless hours volunteering my time in inner city schools, and I worked for a year after high school teaching in rural Jamaica in the National Youth Service Program, so I know a little about this subject.

I do agree with you that what happens at home does have an impact on learning, and I
am familiar with some of those authors you mentioned. I have a great amount of respect for Noguera, as I have read some of his papers on school reform.

Anyway, I am glad we are having this debate/discussion. I hope Hathor responds to you. I am interested to hear if this is what she meant.

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Hathor said...
FN,
When I speak of prejudices in the system. Here is an example. My child wanted to take Calculus at Community college. Even though he ad take the prerequisite courses in high school, he was not allowed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not allowed by whom?

No offsense, what I've seen too mnay times to count is that many Black folks take that first "no" and leave it at that. I always go into these type situations KNOWING I'm gonna get resistance, so I prepare accordingly. I would have had the math evaluation in hand when I showed up to register him for the class. In other words, I'm ALWAYS in the defense when it comes to dealing with anything relating to my kid's education.

That said, living in a wealthy white suburb has been NO escape from educational racism for my child. Luckily, my kid has parents who don't mind kicking a little ass along the way to make sure whe gets what she needs. This was especially true in elementary school when my high IQ having, gifted and talented soon to be 9th grader, was determined by a table of about 9 "experts" (chosen by the school of course) to be "slow" in 4th grade.

No problem, it was nothing that a meeting with the school superintendant couldn't fix.

Dice said...

Finland has the same school schedule as the American School system. The kids spend less time in class and Finland kids start at a later age(I believe they start at 7 years old)

BUT Finland ranks academically as one of the best school systems in the world.

SO is more time in the class room really going to matter? I don't care how much time you spend in school, if the teachers aren't teaching our kids HOW TO LEARN then they could spend 19 hours in school and they'll be still dumb as a box of rocks.

Anonymous said...

FN, no that was not to you. I too hope Hathor responds.

MMM: YES! I like your style.

Also something to keep in mind when comparing the US to other systems is that there different tests in different countries and many countries only test the "college bound" students. We test EVERYONE. So of course we look worse. I am not sure about Finland.

btx3 said...

50% of America is functionally illiterate.

The problem is a lot bigger than the racial footballs tossed by the usual suspects which only serve to obscure the problem.

The "problem" is a lot bigger than the schools. Nor is it necessarily possible for the schools to solve the problem - since they aren't the source of it.

This is classic American politics in looking for the wrong answer, to the wrong question.

We know early life nutrition, play styles, and environment impact intelligence - which is the genesis of things like Head Start.

What needs to be asked, beyond the obvious that poor kids are less likely to receive good nutrition etc..etc..etc...

Is why is this inability to learn, retain, and process information so widespread?

I mean - is there another thalidomide in our food supply?

What environmental differences are American kids exposed to that kids in those high performing countries aren't?

Nan said...

The original reason for long summer breaks was to make sure the little barracudas were home on the farm to help with making hay and picking beans. Now you've got businesses arguing that it's so Six Flags and Disneyworld won't lack for either customers or cheap labor. Wouldn't it be refreshing to see policy made on the basis of what's actually good for the kids?

La♥audiobooks said...

Anony 3:05 said: "You are right. Some kids just won't be able to benefit from extra weeks of education. Unfortunately, they will be kids like yours. But look on the bright side: they get to spend some fun time with you instead of sitting in a classroom getting smarter. "

Having a few extra weeks of school or sitting in a classroom doesn't automatically make anyone smarter. As a parent, I would think it takes more to it than that. Anony, if your child needs those extra weeks to make them smart or stay smarter, you can always enroll them in academic camps during the summer.

Which brings me to wonder if this is really about education/academics for some of the parent commentors on this blog. If you don't have the financial means to afford these summer camps, or you don't know what to do with your child/ren during summer, and lack alternative supervision, then just be honest and say that. Don't deprive other children from their summer break/vacations.

And for the commentors who don't have children, or may not be guardians, I wonder if they would be so willing to give up their vacations or their two days off from work every week. Now I understand some people do work extra hours or six/seven days a week for financial reasons, or because they enjoy what they do. But even as adults, we have these "days off" for various reasons.

BD, you have said volumes, I hope others can ponder it and place it into perspective.

As for the anonys who made snide comments about Disney, cell phone apps etc. That reminds me of college drop outs like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and the many other Silicon Valley academic "goof offs" who were indeed privileged, but were dreaming and being creative in their parents garages. Look at them today.

And Field, those children can sit in a class room all year round, and you will still get the same poor results as long as they stay in their various environments. There is a bigger issue we are not attacking. I don't think the length of the summer break is the solution, nor the problem.

field negro said...

Nan, please tell me what I am having for lunch, because you are reading my mind.:)

btx3, thanks for introducing nutrition into the mix. That plays a part in learning as well.



"Also something to keep in mind when comparing the US to other systems is that there different tests in different countries and many countries only test the "college bound" students. We test EVERYONE. So of course we look worse. I am not sure about Finland."

That's a great point,and one that I never thought about of until now.

Hathor said...

MMM,
It is a little impossible to do what you suggested when those same people initially told me it wasn't necessary to be tested then had another story when too late. He would have had to wait another semester, which pre-calc only delayed one semester. The end result would have been the same.

I am also insulted that you think that your are the only person capable of "doing business."

Hathor said...

FN,

YES is was CCOP.

Hathor said...

anon 11:54,

I wonder how much time you have spent in the classrooms of impoverished communities

Does being a student count?

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Hathor said...
MMM,
It is a little impossible to do what you suggested when those same people initially told me it wasn't necessary to be tested then had another story when too late.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That's just it Hathor, you don't wait on THEM to do the testing, you get it done yourself. At least that what we did and of course, they tried to nullify the results as "invalid". Yeah, invalid my ass........

What I am saying is stop making excuses for why your kid didn't take a specific course. "They" can stop a d@mn thing if YOU are determined to find another way.

So you can take my advice about what I've done as a parent AND former inner city high school Chemistry school teacher as a lesson, or you can continue to assume that I'm trying to "one up" you. Doesn't really matter to me.

Hathor said...

anon8:54,

That last comment was meant for you.

I do not think poor or Black people are automatically born mentally disabled or learning disabled, because they live in dysfunctional circumstances. That is not to say there are some children affected, probably by something extreme, but to categorize an entire community is thoroughly outrageous.

Yours is another interpretation of lower expectations. You see I have known these children when they were very young, they are every bit as interested in exploring and learning.That is why I can't understand why they can't be taught.

Hathor said...

MMM,
Why should I have him tested, when he has been tested in high school and took the SAT.
It is a matter of what that particular school accepts. They look at those test, but still do their own testing. Some colleges will only accept the ACT test for their admissions. It all depends on the school. This makes me wonder if you understand how college admissions work.

It also seems you didn't understand my reply anyway. He did take calculus the next semester. My example really had nothing to do with my child, but assumptions that the educational bureaucracy make.

Anonymous said...

"SO is more time in the class room really going to matter? I don't care how much time you spend in school, if the teachers aren't teaching our kids HOW TO LEARN then they could spend 19 hours in school and they'll be still dumb as a box of rocks."

Imo there are a plethora of incompetent teachers in our educational system. I think that is a big problem that people tend to ignore. There are teachers in our school systems who are big fat "zero" and don't give a damn about children, let alone what they learn.

I hope they begin to clean house, and I know it will be a chore. By doing so, I think we will see a marked difference in what our children learn.

Mr. Well, there is no comparison between how you think and UTS. It's not even close....You are leagues above him.

Anonymous said...

Does being a student count?

No, I have been a patient for my doctor all my life, but to think that makes me a professional or really in the know about medicine/medical issues...no.

Again, read the research I suggested.

Black Diaspora said...

La♥audiobooks said...

"BD, you have said volumes, I hope others can ponder it and place it into perspective."

Thanks.

Kathy said...

I am not in favor of extending the school year, if nothing else, it would be like adding more of the same old boring prison time for children, the rest of the year is already not working. Public summer camps provided by local governments should also be either free or have scholarships provided based on abilty to pay, and busing should be provided as well.

Books, omg children's books for children of color, it is a major chore to try to find books that represent children of color, and also to find books where girls are the main character. the I Can Read series has one book Go Away Dog, with an ambiguous race boy, but the rest in this series is sorely lacking. I gave up. Maybe there are more books published since then, but I doubt it.

When the kids get older, they probably get boring poetry to read, but how about Miss Lou, nope, I doubt Miss Lou would be included in the curriculum.

I do tend to agree with Hathor over all.

BD, I hope you expound on education and the need to be free. Learning to love to read, or explore the world, or find happiness in learning, that is a beautiful way to frame education, thanks.

Anonymous said...

This makes me wonder if you understand how college admissions work.

It also seems you didn't understand my reply anyway. He did take calculus the next semester. My example really had nothing to do with my child, but assumptions that the educational bureaucracy make.
hathor

pet fly cretins with no real

education and poor reading skills

like to run their mouths

even if they aint have shit to say

field negro said...

Kathy, wa yu know bout Miss. Lou?:)

"Public summer camps provided by local governments should also be either free or have scholarships provided based on abilty to pay, and busing should be provided as well."

They should be, but you know folks will be crying about money to fund them. Hell they are cutting back on police and fire dept. budgets as I write this.

Black Diaspora said...

@Kathy: "BD, I hope you expound on education and the need to be free. Learning to love to read, or explore the world, or find happiness in learning, that is a beautiful way to frame education, thanks."

Thank you, Kathy. But you've stated it here so well!

We approach education as inculcation, rather than "exploration," as though we have all the answers, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

I say: Reinvent the wheel!

Kathy said...

Field,
One of my daughters interns at a local camp, which means, she works for free, but she gets experience. They staff a lot of teens and college students, which cost a lot less. I keep thinking about how if they provided bus service, a lot more kids would get this opportunity.

Kathy said...

We approach education as inculcation, rather than "exploration," as though we have all the answers, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

I say: Reinvent the wheel!

BD, I agree, thank you.

One trick I learned for helping my kids with math was to get out food recipes, they learn to read, and they actually see what 1/4 cup means, they actually see what temperature means, it's on the stove, ect. They LOVE to cook, and they didn't even know they were learning.

Hathor said...

anon2:06,
I am a patient and I have to know as much about my disease as my doctor, in order to manage it otherwise I would be dead.

And you must assume that one would have to be a professional and an academic in order to know a bad teacher or see a teacher treat some students with disdain because they are poor, not middle class or kiss up to that teacher.Also one would have to be blind to not know if you have finished all of the material that is in the textbook or know when a teacher doesn't know when a smart child is manipulating them so he teaches nothing or dumbs down the material.

I guess I am also too stupid to know just by looking that the infrastructure in the school is falling down.

One would really need several doctorates to deign challenge your assertions.

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Hathor said...
This makes me wonder if you understand how college admissions work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Attitude, LOL!!!

Soon-to be 4 college degrees, a 14year old kid studying for her SAT's this summer, and I don't know jack about college admissions (roll eyes). Yeah, OK!

Anonymous said...

Oh Lord Hathor,
The blind shall lead the blind and they both shall fall into the ditch--says while rolling eyes.

Black Diaspora said...

We educate our children pretty much as we build a car, assembly-line fashion.

We start them off in preschool, kindergarten, or what have you (the beginning of the line), and then they're taken through several installations of various parts until they emerge at the other end graduated, hopefully educated, and certainly indoctrinated.

During that educational process we box them in, literally and figuratively. We structure their time, structure their seating arrangements, structure what they'll read, structure what they'll learn, and how they'll learn it.

And we wonder why they're turned off.

We do so, not out of malice, but because it saves time, is efficient, and can be done by a few able bodies, which saves money.

This structuring kills the soul, the natural inclination to freely interact with one's environment, and pursue that which delights, and nourishes.

As Lucky the teacher has observed: "A few kids are motivated by good grades and can understand that what they do today will affect their future. The rest of them could care less."

Children, barring any problems, enter the world naturally curious. They're sponges, absorbing everything in sight.

At some point that curiosity dies, or is not as strong as it once was.

We need look no further than ourselves to understand why: We adults are the ones at fault. We suppress that curiosity by seeking to harness it, and redirect it, rather than allowing it free reins.

We want to cookie cutter how we educate children, rather than realizing that no two of them are the same: They have different temperaments, different ways of learning, different interests, different learning curves.

We can ignore all this, or we can work with it. I suggest we work with it.

Allow children, during their seminal years, to discover the world, and in the process discover themselves.

We don't need to fast track them. They will do that for themselves once they learn what it is they wish to learn more about.

If they're good in math and horrible with language, let them focus on math. At some point they'll learn that if they wish to continue with their math, they will need to master language, especially their native tongue, and will correct that deficiency on their own.

We all know that not all our education (learning) is done within the four walls of a schoolroom.

Not all our kids need become scientists, engineers, or linguists, or acquire technical skills to contribute to society.

Artists contribute. Writers contribute. Poets contribute. Contributions come from many corners, but it will be not what society dictates is needed, but what the child, now an adult, is driven to do to satisfy that longing of the soul to be free.

Allowing each to be and do what's in their being to be and do, will still give us the scientists we need, and the technical skills we need, but they will come from those whose passion it is to provide them.

I know: It's messy. It's not streamlined. It goes against the principles of time management, work flow charts, the precepts of efficiency experts.

But we'll have a society that's free, free to become whatever it chooses to be, and find satisfaction and joy, as much in the doing, as in the being.

pierced said...

In May, my son graduated from university and my daughter from high school. Both of them participated in gifted and talented student enrichment programs, took Advanced Placement (AP) courses and had high SAT scores.

Right now my daughter is in Europe on a cultural enrichment tour- she enters university next month; my son did the same in his junior year of high school.

I relay this not to toot my or my children's horn (well, just a little), but to say my experience has been - "the buck stops with you" in taking responsibility for the education of your children.

Whether we want to accept it or not, the fact remains - a lot of the "educating" takes place outside of the classroom. We, the parents, have to expose our children to social/cultural/ technical/et al activities, institutions, organizations, and encourage them (and insist if that extra nudge is needed) to access every opportunity/outlet available to them.

My husband and I enrolled our kids in activities outside of school in there various areas of interest (primarily academic). We were fortunate to be able to pay for this "extracurricular education" - I know every parent isn't. But one thing every family can afford to do is - pick up a book and read!

That is what my kids did - during the school year and all summer long. It started with us reading to them in the womb and when they were toddlers. I began teaching them to read before they were school aged (and I was employed outside the home full time).

We made frequent trips to the library and there vocabularies exploded exponentially. They dreamed, they fantasized and they learned of a world larger than just their immediate environment.

At home, my husband and I discussed politics, the daily news and real world events in their presence. We queried them about what they thought of this big ole world. We challenged them to question the status quo - the tried and true and established ways of thinking, doing and being. And they learned to think critically. These are things that can be done in the home, regardless of economic/geographical/class status.

A "tip of the head rag" (since we're field negroes here)to Lucky: I co-sign everything you said about this country's educational system. Although I am not a teacher, I have encountered most of what you said:
___________________________________
Specifically, "The test is God, and everyone worships. Students don't learn how to read and think, they learn to perform on one day of the school year, and they learn that nothing else is really that important".
______________________________
You are so on point: Some of my children's teachers admitted there hands were effectively tied and had to "teach to the test". In many cases they are not allowed the freedom to personalize lesson plans and create or use teaching methods outside of the standard curriculum.
___________________________
Head rag tip to MAMM: "That said, living in a wealthy white suburb has been NO escape from educational racism for my child. Luckily, my kid has parents who don't mind kicking a little ass along the way to make sure whe gets what she needs."
____________________________

You must advocate for your child when engaging with your local school(s). Never take "no", if it's going to impede your child's educational access or progress.

And, yes, be willing to kick some ass if it comes to that. If you can't get redress at the child's teacher's level - work up the chain of command.

Thanks FN for kicking off a varied and enriching discussion!! All of the comments have been thought provoking.

Anonymous said...

A lot of great ideas have been expressed.
 
I believe we need better parents. Parents that don't pass on the the mistakes they learned in life, rather pass on what they learned from their mistakes.

Anonymous said...

I am a teacher. Guess what? I have a family too. I want to spend time with my family...I know teachers should give up everything so we can tend your kids all year round. Heaven forbid a parents actually use the summer to read with their children, take them to museums...take to free programs to open their world view..

Anonymous said...


Attitude, LOL!!!

Soon-to be 4 college degrees, a 14year old kid studying for her SAT's this summer, and I don't know jack about college admissions (roll eyes). Yeah, OK!
pet fly cretin

yeah the degrees u got from a cracker
jack box

Hathor said...

MMM,
FYI

You will find out how much influence you can have at the college level, when your child gets there. They only thing a college wants you to do is write the check.

Black Diaspora said...

@pierced: "We, the parents, have to expose our children to social/cultural/ technical/et al activities, institutions, organizations...."

Exposure is a big part of it. Exposure, exposure, exposure--until children find something(s) that strike their fancy.

After that, motivation becomes academic.

I wish that the first five years of a child's education was devoted primarily to what is referred to as "field trips," where people in the field become teacher for a day, communicating, not only what things make their field special, why they became interested in the first place, but the passion with which they regard it.

Race Traitoress said...

Another teacher piping up--

@fn "But my experience with educators is that most of them are very dedicated people and they know what they are doing. One of the problems they often face is the internal politics of the school boards and local governments."

THANK YOU.

Extending the school year is certainly an option, but as a teacher I feel there would have to be some changes. Many teachers teach six subjects per day with one 45-minute prep period in which they are supposed to grade all papers, contact parents, go to the bathroom, prepare lessons, etc. Once the school year begins, I don't catch my breath until the first of June. I take the month of June off, and then I teach youth education classes the rest of the summer.

I understand that teachers in Europe have fewer classes per day and more prep time, like college professors do here; if America followed suit I could deal with a longer school year, but not if I am expected to keep the same pace as I do now. It's truly like improv from the moment I get out of my car in the parking lot until I leave the school dance I'm chaperoning.

Also, with regard to BD's perspective, I agree wholeheartedly. Memorization is deadly to learning, but students are very used to it and balk at being asked to think and defend their opinions. My style of teaching is a lot of discussion, real questions (not the "guess-what's-in-my-head" type), and current events. I teach language arts, so I can incorporate these practices into every day, but I still get a lot of pressure to teach to the test. I can afford to ignore a lot of it, only because my student's test scores are the highest in the department. I believe this is because I teach them to think critically and not accept everything at face value. But I don't know how long I'll be able to hold out against this ill-advised focus on test prep and busy work.

I once met with a father of a student who had turned in a "report" when the assignment had been to write a research paper. The father wanted to know what was wrong with his child's paper, as I'd given it no credit. I explained to him that I couldn't tell where the encyclopedia ended and his child's thoughts began, and that I expected his child to make a claim and support it with reasons and evidence, not just tell me what the encyclopedia told him about manatees.

The father looked at me and said, "so you're actually trying to teach them to write." He paused and then added, "I didn't learn that until grad school." He was an attorney for the federal government---but when he realized what the expectation was a smile came to his face and I had his support.

I tell this story because it is indicative of what our students and parents have come to see school as---a place to jump through hoops, complete assignments with little or no learning, if possible, and get out the door so the real learning can commence. Students actually get offended when I don't know all the answers or when I ask them what they think. They've come to not think of that as their job. They're just supposed to show up, shut up, turn in work, and wait for the end of the day when their real lives begin.

It's not impossible to teach well so children will learn--there is plenty of information and research about effective teaching strategies. And, believe it or not, teachers go into teaching because they like kids, not because they hate them. But they get burned out by the pace and the bureaucracy, the lack of support and overcrowded schools.

Smaller schools, smaller class sizes (20 or fewer), more prep time for teachers, discussion based/Socratic questions, and a commitment to "covering" fewer topics but studying those we do to a deeper degree--that's my prescription for school reform.

And if we could get rid of the American culture of anti-intellectualism, that would help too.

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Hathor said...
You will find out how much influence you can have at the college level, when your child gets there. They only thing a college wants you to do is write the check.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well if she attends the University where I'm currently employed, I say bring it on.

And if she attends the University I attended where I had to have my Attorney and local Senator meet with the University President to finish my first undergraduate degree and graduate ( VERY LONG story here), then I say bring it on.

In other words, I'm no stranger doing what need to be done WHEN it needs to be done.

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Personally, I don't think smaller class sizes are the answer. In the average college class at the average university, the class sizes can be as large as 200 students, yet students (motivated ones) manage to learn anyways.

It's ALL about 1) Parenting and 2) A child's own motivation/interests and 3) That "village" of adults close to that child who support the parents in making sure that child knows what's expected of them.

Black Diaspora said...

@Race Traitoress: "I believe this is because I teach them to think critically and not accept everything at face value. But I don't know how long I'll be able to hold out against this ill-advised focus on test prep and busy work."

Thanks for your devotion to children, your passion for teaching, and your willingness to buck the system when possible, for the sake of teaching--real teaching.

You're the kind of teacher I would have been proud to have, but didn't, and from whom I would have gladly learned.

pierced said...

@Black Diaspora: "I wish that the first five years of a child's education was devoted primarily to what is referred to as "field trips," where people in the field become teacher for a day, communicating, not only what things make their field special, why they became interested in the first place, but the passion with which they regard it."
_____________________________

I agree - wouldn't that be something!?

Once a child is inspired, a passion ignited, they become motivated to excel and achieve. As parents, we have to do everything within our power (and outreach for other resources)to encourage and support that.

field negro said...

RT, thanks again to you and all the other teachers holding it down out there.

Yes, there are some bad teachers out there,but as pierced said, a lot of it starts at home.

Anonymous said...

Personally, I don't think smaller class sizes are the answer. In the average college class at the average university, the class sizes can be as large as 200 students, yet students (motivated ones) manage to learn anyways.mmm

thats cuz u r an idiot with no concept of how childrens minds work individual attention is always best and small class sizes facilitate that btw small class sizes also work for adults
u just say shit to get in a word but r talking outchurasshole

Race Traitoress said...

@MeandMyMicroscopePersonally, I don't think smaller class sizes are the answer. In the average college class at the average university, the class sizes can be as large as 200 students, yet students (motivated ones) manage to learn anyways.

The average college class at the average university does not reflect the realities of a public school classroom. Students who self-select into a university education are already convinced, more or less, that education is in their best interests. Many students I've known are the first in their families to graduate from high school. They are not necessarily convinced that education is a good use of their time, and it's my job to convince them that education can improve the quality of their lives, not just in terms of preparing them for the work force, but in terms of preparing them for a life of learning. Motivated students are easy to teach--point them in the right direction and coach them when they need it.

But public schools are required to teach every student, not just the motivated ones. We also must teach the less motivated, or those with special needs, or those who are hungry, or tired, or who have a toothache. Also the ones who fear they are pregnant or have an STD. Or the ones who live in fear that their parents will find out they are gay and kick them out of the house--a very well-founded fear where I live. Or the ones who live in a shelter, or who are undocumented and worried about being found out.

Also, there is a world of difference in the methods of teaching college students who are legal adults versus juveniles in high school. I've done both, and it's much trickier to negotiate the politics of teaching high school students. I have to balance my desire to teach the truth with parents' desires that their child not know that a classmate has gay parents, or that atheists deserve respect, or that alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana, or that the use of emergency contraception is rampant in our city (because the only thing more sinful than premarital sex is premeditated premarital sex). I'm at "at will" employee, without a union, who may be fired for no cause if my employer wishes. It is always a balancing act.

What I appreciate about small class sizes are the discussions that are possible and the supportive culture that a smaller group allows for. But even more important than small class size is small schools. The high schools with 3500-4000 are impersonal cities where many students fall through the cracks. In a school with 400 or fewer students, every student can be known well by a several adults, who can intervene or advocate when that student needs help. The smaller population also helps to create a culture where positive peer pressure works to everyone's advantage. We also have no high school cliques.

I agree that parental support is paramount, but I teach some students who don't have a lot of support from home. We like to think all parents know what's best for their children, but we know that's not always the case. Parents who keep their children home to keep them company, or who let the child take the day off from school when it's their birthday, or who take one or two week vacations in the last month of school--these children get mixed messages.

And as far as that "village" it takes to raise a child--I believe I'm part of that village.

@Black Diaspora - thank you for your kind words. I've learned a lot from you here, and for that I thank you, also.

@fn - you're welcome! I'm honored and exceedingly fortunate to be able to do work I love and at which I succeed.

sorry to write another book--lol

Moufbreatha said...

@Race Traitoress:
I agree with everything you said, and I think you make a very compelling point about the difference between high school students and college students. I think another reason the comparison between the two groups doesn't work is that people don't take into account the wealth of resources available to college students.

Although lectures can be huge (especially for intro science courses), most of these classes have a required recitation that is FAR smaller in size (think 20 or less) lead by a grad student, where any questions about the material are addressed, and reviews are held. They also have a lot of smaller lab sessions. Additionally, most language courses, humanities, and highly specialized math/science courses are smaller, like around 20 students. And nowadays, even if a student misses class, slides from the lectures are often placed online so auto didactic students really don't even have to attend larger lectures. Also take into consideration extra review sessions, professor office hours, and free tutoring/writing centers.

Anonymous said...

race traitor at least u have

something to say that makes sense

better reading ur comments then the

incoherent unreasonable rants of a

fool like pet fly cretin!

Anonymous said...

so auto didactic students really don't even have to attend larger lecturesmoufbreatha

this is important auto didactic students usually suffer under current public school system cuz there is no place for them similar students also suffer with rigid professors who want students there to kiss their ass and dont care about the actual information
new shift needed in education to accomodate more autodidacts

Race Traitoress said...

@Moufbreatha
I think another reason the comparison between the two groups doesn't work is that people don't take into account the wealth of resources available to college students.

Good point--and also that college students are more likely to be aware of and advocate for themselves to be able to take advantage of those resources, especially after they've got a semester of classes under their belts.

@Anon 3:31
new shift needed in education to accomodate more autodidacts

I see your point, but I think we're more likely to move in this direction than move toward more supportive environments. In Utah, where I live, we have what is called Electronic High School, which is an entirely online high school curriculum that Utah students can access for free (they have to purchase books in some cases); students from other states must pay, I believe, $100 per course for a quarter's credit, and both receive an official transcript to present to their high schools. I see a lot of students who think this is just a MARVELOUS idea until they are trying to complete three courses on their own the last semester of senior year!

Utah is very big on the electronic classroom idea because of our demographics--our population's median age is 15--we have the birth rate of Pakistan. No lie. So though Utahns pay a higher percentage of their taxes to education than citizens in any other state, we spend less per pupil than any other state (we go back and forth with Mississippi and Arkansas for 50th place) because of the large family sizes preferred by Mormons. And while the concept of a "head tax" comes up every few years, our overwhelmingly Mormon legislature never gives it serious thought.

A similar idea on the college level is the Western Governor's University, an online opportunity to earn both undergrad and graduate degrees.

Both of these opportunities are available to students all over the US, maybe the world--and MIT has myriad opportunities for online learning as well. My prejudice is, of course, that I think teachers are valuable and that course content is not the only thing for students to learn. Being able to carry on a civil discussion with others with whom you disagree cannot be taught as well in an online forum as in a classroom, imho ;)

Anonymous said...

race traitor u make good points it just depends on what value students have for education and how they process information

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Race Traitoress said...
The average college class at the average university does not reflect the realities of a public school classroom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When I taught Chemistry at an inner city high school, I used my college general chemistry book as the primary reference (and pissed off the administration in the process, LOL!!!). What that did was convince BOTH my motivated AND unmotivated kids that they were indeed smart enough to understand a college level textbook, thus smart enough to attend college.

MeandMyMicroscope said...

If you set college as the standard, it will soon become the norm. I get why some of you are so "excited" to have our kids graduate from high school, but if you continue to focus primarily on that without considering what SHOULD come next, our kids will only get further behind the world than they already are.

Today, a bachelor's degree is equivalent to a high school diploma in MANY professions. Post high education is the key to being able to earn a living wage, least you all open your eyes to the fact that the middle class is becoming a idea of the past..

Race Traitoress said...

@MeandMyMicroscope

When I taught Chemistry at an inner city high school, I used my college general chemistry book as the primary reference (and pissed off the administration in the process, LOL!!!). What that did was convince BOTH my motivated AND unmotivated kids that they were indeed smart enough to understand a college level textbook, thus smart enough to attend college.

With a record like that, it's a shame you no longer teach high school.

MeandMyMicroscope said...

Race Traitoress said...
With a record like that, it's a shame you no longer teach high school
>>>>>>>>>>>

I only lasted a year in the "system" and was seen as militant.

The "system" especially as it relates to Science education, isn't made for people who don't want to conform particularly in inner city schools.

I had to figure out another way to make a difference (which would allow me to stay employed, LOL), which is why I have a first generation college student in my lab this summer.

hxl said...

tn requin

chaussures tn

women's shoes

chaussure requin

air max

chaussures sport

air 90

air 95

chaussures pas cher

air bw

air max

air 90

air chaussures

discount handbags

timberland

timberland chaussures

bottes ugg

ugg classic

ugg

bottes ugg

Chaussures Femmes

ugg classic

ugg

moncler

Chaussures mode

doudoune moncler

健康365天天网秉承为大家带去健康365天为己任,联合各大国内外知名品牌,其中国外加拿大营养屋系列产品为主,健康药品大全几乎被加拿大营养屋产品所覆盖。国内知名品牌欣乐佳以高纯度提取技术为优势,给大家带来高纯度、高质量,健康365天优质生活。欣乐佳的高纯度提取技术堪称国内提取技术行业领头人。中食月太也是保健品行业的新生力量,肽产品是中食月太不可忽视的主推品牌力量,完全符合国家食源性低聚肽标准和行业标准。健康365天天网集国内外,知名三大品牌,成就保健品行业先锋。带给大家最新、最安全、纯度最高的,保健健康药品大全

Anonymous said...

I only lasted a year in the "system" and was seen as militant.

*cough* eye think u mean u were seen

as incompetent

happy said...

Laptop Battery
acer Laptop Battery
apple Laptop Battery
asus Laptop Battery
compaq Laptop Battery
Dell Laptop Battery
fujitsu Laptop Battery
gateway Laptop Battery
hp Laptop Battery
ibm Laptop Battery
sony Laptop Battery
toshiba Laptop Battery
APPLE M8403 battery
APPLE A1078 Battery
APPLE A1079 battery
APPLE A1175 battery 1
APPLE a1185 battery
APPLE A1189 battery
Acer aspire 5920 battery
Acer btp-arj1 battery
Acer LC.BTP01.013 battery
Acer ASPIRE 1300 battery
Acer ASPIRE 1310 battery
Acer Aspire 1410 battery
Acer ASPIRE 1680 battery
ACER BTP-63D1 battery
ACER BTP-43D1 battery
Acer lc.btp05.001 battery
Acer aspire 3000 battery
Acer Travelmate 4000 battery

happy said...

ACER aspire 5560 battery
ACER BATBL50L6 battery
ACER TravelMate 240 Battery
ACER BT.00803.004 Battery
ACER Travelmate 4002lmi battery
Acer travelmate 800 battery
Acer aspire 3613wlmi battery
Travelmate 2414wlmi battery
Acer batcl50l battery
Acer Travelmate 2300 battery
ACER aspire 3610 battery
ACER travelmate 4600 battery
Dell Latitude D800 battery
Dell Inspiron 600m battery
Dell Inspiron 8100 Battery
Dell Y9943 battery
Dell Inspiron 1521 battery
Dell Inspiron 510m battery
Dell Latitude D500 battery
Dell Latitude D520 battery
Dell GD761 battery
Dell NF343 battery
Dell D5318 battery
Dell G5260 battery
Dell Inspiron 9200 battery
Dell Latitude C500 battery
Dell HD438 Battery
Dell GK479 battery

happy said...

Dell PC764 battery
Dell KD476 Battery
Dell Inspiron 1150 battery
Dell inspiron 8500 battery
Dell Inspiron 4100 battery
Dell Inspiron 4000 battery
Dell Inspiron 8200 battery
Dell FK890 battery
Dell Inspiron 1721 battery
Dell Inspiron 1300 Battery
Dell Inspiron 1520 Battery
Dell Latitude D600 Battery
Dell XPS M1330 battery
Dell Latitude D531N Battery
Dell INSPIRON 6000 battery
Dell INSPIRON 6400 Battery
Dell Inspiron 9300 battery
Dell INSPIRON 9400 Battery
Dell INSPIRON e1505 battery
Dell INSPIRON 2500 battery
Dell INSPIRON 630m battery
Dell Latitude D820 battery
Dell Latitude D610 Battery
Dell Latitude D620 battery
Dell Latitude D630 battery
Dell xps m1210 battery
Dell e1705 battery
Dell d830 battery
Dell inspiron 2200 battery
Dell inspiron 640m battery
Dell inspiron b120 battery
Dell xps m1210 battery

happy said...

Dell inspiron xps m1710 battery
Dell inspiron 1100 battery
Dell 310-6321 battery
Dell 1691p battery
Dell Inspiron 500m battery
Dell 6Y270 battery
Dell inspiron 8600 battery
Latitude x300 series battery
Dell latitude cpi battery
Dell 1x793 battery
dell Inspiron 1501 battery
Dell 75UYF Battery
Dell Inspiron 1720 battery
dell Latitude C640 battery
Dell XPS M140 battery
Dell Inspiron E1405 battery
dell 700m battery
dell C1295 battery
Dell U4873 Battery
Dell Latitude C600 battery
Armada E700 Series battery
Compaq 116314-001 battery
Compaq 319411-001 battery
Compaq nc4200 battery
Compaq Presario R3000 Battery
Compaq Presario 2100 battery
Compaq Presario r3000 Battery
Compaq Business Notebook NX9000 series battery

happy said...

HP 395789-001 battery
HP 446506-001 Battery
HP dv9700 battery
HP F4809A Battery
HP nc8000 battery
HP nc8230 battery
HP pavilion zd8000 battery
HP f2024b battery
HP f4812a battery
HP Pavilion ZV5000 battery
HP Pavilion DV1000 battery
HP Pavilion ZD7000 Battery
HP Pavilion DV2000 battery
HP Pavilion DV4000 Battery
HP Pavilion dv6000 Battery
HP Pavilion DV9000 Battery
HP F4098A battery
HP pavilion zx6000 battery
HP omnibook xe4400 battery
HP omnibook xe4500 battery
HP omnibook xe3 battery
Notebook NX9110 battery
IBM 02K6821 battery
IBM 02K7054 battery
IBM 08K8195 battery
IBM 08K8218 battery
IBM 92P1089 battery
IBM Thinkpad 390 Series battery

happy said...

IBM Thinkpad 390X battery
IBM ThinkPad Z61m Battery
IBM 02K7018 Battery
IBM thinkpad t41p battery
IBM THINKPAD T42 Battery


IBM ThinkPad R60 Battery
IBM ThinkPad T60 Battery
IBM ThinkPad T41 Battery
IBM ThinkPad T43 Battery
IBM ThinkPad X40 Battery
Thinkpad x24 battery
ThinkPad G41 battery
IBM thinkpad r52 battery
Thinkpad x22 battery
IBM thinkpad t42 battery
IBM thinkpad r51 battery
Thinkpad r50 battery
IBM thinkpad r32 battery
Thinkpad x41 battery
SONY VGP-BPS2 Battery
SONY VGP-BPS2C Battery
SONY VGP-BPS5 battery
SONY VGP-BPL2C battery
SONY VGP-BPS2A battery
SONY VGP-BPS2B battery
SONY PCGA-BP1N battery
SONY PCGA-BP2E battery
SONY PCGA-BP2NX battery

happy said...

SONY PCGA-BP2S battery
SONY PCGA-BP2SA battery
SONY PCGA-BP2T battery
SONY PCGA-BP2V battery
SONY PCGA-BP4V battery
SONY PCGA-BP71 battery
SONY PCGA-BP71A battery
SONY VGP-BPL1 battery
SONY VGP-BPL2 battery
Sony vgn-t2xp/s battery
Sony vaio vgn-s4xp battery
Sony vaio pcg-z1rsp battery
SONY NP-FT1 battery
SONY NP-FC10 Battery
SONY NP-F330 Battery
SONY NP-F550 Battery
SONY NP-FM50 Battery
SONY NP-FP50 Battery
SONY NP-55 Battery
SONY NP-FM70 Battery
SONY NP-33 Battery
SONY NP-F970 Battery
SONY NP-FP90 Battery
FUJITSU Lifebook C2220 battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp63 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp68 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp77 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp78 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp79 Battery

happy said...

FUJITSU Fpcbp95 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp98 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp121 Battery
FUJITSU Fpcbp151 Battery
FUJITSU lifebook t4010 Battery
FUJITSU lifebook t4020d Battery
GATEWAY NX7000 battery
UNIWILL 258-4S4400-S1P1 Battery
TOSHIBA PA3307U-1BRS Battery
TOSHIBA PA3383U-1BRS Battery
TOSHIBA PA3384U-1BRS Battery
TOSHIBA PA3465U-1BRS Battery
Toshiba PA2487UR battery
Toshiba A100 Battery
Toshiba Satellite A105 battery
Toshiba A70 battery
PA3062U-1BAT battery
Toshiba Satellite P30 battery
Toshiba PA3084U-1BRS battery
Toshiba PA3098U battery
PA3107U-1BAS battery
PA3107U-1BRS battery
PA3166U-1BRS battery
PA3176U-1BAS battery
TOSHIBA PABAS076 Battery

happy said...

Toshiba pa3399u-1brs battery
TOSHIBA PA3399U-2BAS Battery
TOSHIBA PA3421U-1BRS Battery
TOSHIBA PA3456U-1BRS Battery
TOSHIBA Pa3356u-1brs battery
Satellite a10 battery
Pa3331u-1brs battery
Satellite m30 series battery
Satellite pro m30 battery
TOSHIBA PA3399U-1BRS Battery
Portege m300 battery
TOSHIBA PA3285U-1BRS Battery
Canon BP-2L5 Battery
Canon BP-508 Battery
JVC BN-VF707U Battery
JVC BN-VF707 Battery
JVC BN-VF733 Battery
JVC BN-V408U Battery
BN-V408 Battery
CANON NB-2L Battery
CANON NB-2LH Battery
CANON BP-511A battery