Saturday, July 17, 2010

"Tonz O Gunz"


I was walking to the gym in Center City, Philadelphia a couple of days ago, and I saw something that actually made me feel good: It was two young brothers boxing in the street. As it turns out, they weren't serious with each other, and they were only working on their pugilistic skills.
"But field, why did that make you feel good to see young brothers fighting?"
Because they weren't out and about in the neighborhood trying to pop some other dudes top with an assault rifle. They were learning to use their fists instead of their fingers to settle a score, that's why.

Here in Philly we have a serious gun problem. Damn near all the young bucks are packing or could be packing easier than they can get a bicycle. Getting a hammer is not a problem here in Philly. It's what these young ones do. And the more lethal the weapon the more street cred it gives them. We even try to get folks to turn in their guns with PlayStations here in Philly, but thanks to folks like this:

"For example, among those arrested and charged was Akiem Smith, 19, of the 1300 block of South Fourth Street. Smith, who was too young to buy a firearm legally, is accused of trying to use a "straw" purchaser to buy a gun, officials said.

When the attempt failed, Smith reportedly had his mother, whose name was not disclosed, buy a .45-caliber handgun for him, officials said. Officers recovered the gun, which had an obliterated serial number."

(You read that right; his mama tried to get her baby "a .45- caliber handgun." Ahh I tell you, there is nothing like a mother's love.) It won't work.

But the beat goes on. A couple of days ago a bunch of thugs fired on the po po from a van, and they were not shooting at the boys in blue with your standard garden variety guns. No sir, these criminals were loaded for bare with some very sophisticated assault weapons.

"The shooting Thursday night of a police officer in Kensington reverberated with some frightening similarities to the 2008 shooting of Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski.
Three men in a vehicle. A powerful weapon - more than one, in this case. A cop shot.

Luckily, in this instance, Officer Kevin Livewell, 30, is doing well and is expected to recover from the wound to his right leg.
*[ l-i-ve-w-e-l-l-?]*

Police yesterday displayed the types of deadly, "state-of-the-art" weapons - four assault-type rifles and four handguns - found in a white van and in the streets in the area of Water Street near Indiana Avenue, where Livewell was shot about 8:30 p.m.

They also asked for the public's help in finding the two men who fled the van. One was wearing a dark blue shirt and dark shorts, and the other a white tank top, said Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross. Both were described as Hispanic. Livewell's partner tackled a third man, the van's driver, who was being questioned yesterday by detectives. His identity has not yet been released.

Found in the van were two Bushmaster AR-15 .223-caliber rifles; a Taurus PT 24 .40-caliber pistol; a TEC-9 semiautomatic pistol; and a Glock 9mm pistol."

Now I am no gun expert, but I am smart enough to know that a "Bushmaster" is no joke. And these clowns didn't have one but two of those bad boys. That's the kind of fire power that these thugs run around with on the streets of "Killadelphia". And we are supposed to be intimidated or afraid of two clowns in faux military gear with night sticks? Come on now. Let's keep it real.

If folks on the right in this country were more concerned about sensible gun laws than they were a manufactured and imagined threat from an insignificant group of publicity hounds, they would get back a percentage ( a very small one) of the respect that I have lost for them.

But it won't happen. The NRA has too much money and folks have to get elected. Oh well, I hope they will at least spring for flowers for the next police officer's funeral.

39 comments:

Mithras said...

"No sir, these criminals were loaded for bare with some very sophisticated assault weapons."

I agree there is a problem with gun violence in the city. Straw purchases in particular are rampant. But there isn't much about these guns that is especially unusual or sophisticated. They're not machine guns. They're just semiautomatic handguns and rifles. (That makes the term "assault weapon" inapplicable - to be an assault weapon, it has to have a full-auto option.) An AR-15 chambered in .223 caliber is a pretty powerful load. But a hunting rifle bullet is usually larger - .308 or so - and more powerful. As far as I can tell, these guns are the same lethality as any other normal pistols and rifles.

Hathor said...

So?

LACoincidental said...

"tons of guns, but I don't glorify".

Field, go look for the Gangstarr shout out. GURU, RIP.

Farman said...

"So?"

Exactly. They're still beyond the threshold of being in the arena of "self defense".

Farman said...

And they're every bit as lethal as any "assault" weapon.

Anonymous said...

Philly is a dangerous and murderous city. To be called the 'city of brotherly love' is a joke.

BTW, those cop killers were Hispanic, a clue of what's happening to America while illegal immigration continues. Pretty soon there will be wars with the police just like Mexico.

And the Dems support illegal immigration? Pleeeze.

Mithras said...

Point is, there is no principled distinction between the guns used in this crime and most guns owned by regular people. It's a mistake to focus on the type of gun being used because that's how you generate hostility from people who want to own an AR for target shooting purposes. If you start off by talking about banning ARs, you will lose every time. If you talk about process - stopping straw purchases and trafficking, then we can win that fight.

Mithras said...

An assault weapon is a machine gun. It is far, far more dangerous than a semiautomatic. To conflate the two is just stupid and dishonest.

Zing said...

Mithras said...
'An assault weapon is a machine gun. It is far, far more dangerous than a semiautomatic. To conflate the two is just stupid and dishonest.'

You protest too much. Yours is a distinction without a difference.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Assault weapon is a non-technical term referring to any of a broad category of firearms with certain features, including some semiautomatic rifles, some pistols, and some shotguns. There are a variety of different statutory definitions of assault weapons in local, state, and federal laws in the United States that define them by a set of characteristics they possess. Using lists of physical features or specific firearms in defining assault weapons in the U.S. was first codified by the language of the now-expired 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[1]

Very generally speaking, a semi-automatic firearm is defined by these laws as an assault weapon if it has both a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, sometimes in conjunction with other features such as a folding stock or a flash suppressor. Assault weapons are often similar in appearance to military firearms, but are capable of firing only once each time the trigger is pulled.

Anonymous said...

zingbat u r wrong

a person who shoot a gun know that a glock is a semi automatic and that is like a hand gun with a clip

but an assault rifle? come on!

Shady_Grady said...

Mithras said:
If you talk about process - stopping straw purchases and trafficking, then we can win that fight.


Exactly. Focus on how criminals are getting guns, shut down the distributors who sell to criminals, keep criminals who have guns in jail for a long time and so on. But a blanket ban on guns, which is where these discussions usually wind up, won't work. It's also unconstitutional.

field negro said...

Mithras, thanks for the distinction. But didn't they find those guys with SKS rifles as well? Do those count as assault rifles?

Shady_Grady, you and I argue this point everytime. I am not calling for a "blanket ban on guns." I am calling for sensible gun laws. Allowing local governments to do certain things to stem the tide of straw purchasing, for instance, whic is a serious problem.

La~Coincidental, I am all over Guru with that "Tonz O Gunz" title. R.I.P.

dan of steele said...

sorry field, it aint the guns, it is the people shooting them.

I am about as left wing as anyone you will ever meet and I demand the right to own firearms. you will lose me and lots of others when you start talking about controlling weapons.

these stories are usually followed up with requests to purchase tanks and attack helicopters so the police can outgun the bad guys.

perhaps a few more cops walking the streets instead of cruising would help build some confidence. maybe if people would trust cops these things wouldn't happen.

when did we start fearing the police? they used to protect us. now they seem to work for the banks and landlords only.

Shady_Grady said...

Field, what do you want the local governments to do to stem the tide of straw purchases?

Straw purchases of firearms are already federal crimes.

And I think everyone wants "sensible" gun laws but of course no one agrees on what those are. After getting spanked by the SC , Chicago passed a new ordinance that makes it illegal to even have a gun on your front porch. Daley of course is protected by serious men with guns 24-7.

I think the best solution is for increased joint federal-state partnerships to go after the illegal gun purchasers and dealers. Make it more difficult for criminals to get guns, not law abiding citizens. Raise the penalty on gun possession or use during a crime. There was also a non-violence program started in Chicago that was trying to treat violence as a virus and teach people other means of conflict resolution. I think those are all good ideas. If folks want to put the NRA and likeminded people on the defensive, make them defend the indefensible. Show the American people how a legal gun winds up in the hands of a criminal and stay focused on that process.

However just as there are some folks who are convinced that everyone should have the absolute up-todate military grade equipment, there are others who simply don't agree with the right to individual gun ownership and seek to limit it at every opportunity. I think culturally, politically and legally the restrictionists' ship has sailed. They just don't know it yet.

Hathor said...

I think there was a special federal tax on gun purchases, there would be more enforcement of illegal gun purchases.

I think in the last thirty years I've only remember hearing of three or four bust for illegal weapons. A few more as a consequence of drug bust.

Anonymous said...

Until you fix the real problems in the inner city (joblessness, Female headed households, concentrated poverty, etc.) this type of thing will continue.

field negro said...

"Until you fix the real problems in the inner city (joblessness, Female headed households, concentrated poverty, etc.) this type of thing will continue."

Anon. this is true. But I do think that we can make the carnage less prevalent if we did something to limit the guns on the streets.
I like some of what Shady Grady said, (although I disagree with his point about local governments and straw purchases. ) there should be more emphasis made from the enforcement side with dealers and purchasers etc.

dan of steele, I hear you, but here in Philly they are starting to lay off cops because of money issues in city hall. See, it always comes back to money.

field negro said...

Anon 11:58 pm. any proof that the shooter of the latest police officer was here illegally?

alicia banks said...

ditto fn

it is nice to see young bm doing anything other than killing each other...

yet another reason why i cannot understand evil holy haters like diced icy icy who attack young black gay men for holding hands or kissing rather than being macho shottas just blasting each other away

this post made my day

thanks!

happy sunday

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/chi-town-charades---on-warren-g-derrion-albert-and-obama-2.html?locale=en_US

Anonymous said...

Field, "Anon 11:58 pm. any proof that the shooter of the latest police officer was here illegally?"

Now, Field you know that crook was from Mexico and was part of a drug cartel. Who else would be packing guns like that and willing to shoot it out with the cops?

You should check it out. Ask Jody, I bet she knows they are illegal. I am surprised that a criminal defense lawyer would not know that.

BTW, I read where in Oakland they made a big cut in the police force. That means no one is safe in that shoot-em-up town. But I am sure Granny has her semi-automatic ready.

Yep. The towns that need the police the most have suddenly became even more dangerous with illegal Mexicans on the loose and hungry Blacks on the streets.

Watch your back, Field.

Anonymous said...

There is one city where there will be no cutbacks on the police force. Chicago.

Anonymous said...

We might have to conclude that the problem of "too many guns" is not seen as a problem by the majority until such time as the epidemic of gun violence starts to leave the inner city and find its way into suburbia. At that point, more advocates for gun control may emerge. However, we shouldn't forget that part of the reason why there are so many guns circulating throughout our culture in the first place is due to a conscious/subconscious fear among the majority that they need to be armed and ready to fight "the others" should it ever come to that. In this line of reasoning, the thought (although irrational and fear-based) that one's group might get wiped out or have revenge for past injustices visited upon them (and therefore need to have easy access to weapons in order to protect their lives and property) far outweighs any concern over seeing largely young men of color terrorizing themselves and their communities or taking the life of a police officer here and there. It's a cost-benefit analysis that I'm sure takes place in the minds of many (elected officials included). This has actually been a consistent theme throughout American history, and one that we like to pretend no longer abides.

Anonymous said...

anon3:48p-"..In this line of reasoning, the thought (although irrational and fear-based) that one's group might get wiped out or have revenge for past injustices visited upon them (and therefore need to have easy access to weapons in order to protect their lives and property) far outweighs any concern over seeing largely young men of color terrorizing themselves and their communities or taking the life of a police officer here and there..."

Did you hear the remarks of "hate" from a member of the NBPP? That was pretty irrational. And one needs to be protected against irrational people like that. Everyone should be armed to protect themselves from criminals and overly strong rapists.

Anonymous said...

I don't disagree with that. I'm just saying that our tolerance of the existence of crazy amounts and types of weapons within our society is related to other anxieties as well.

Dana said...

I did a post, a few years ago, noting that if Carbon County had the same murder rate as Philadelphia, we'd be seeing around 11 murders a year, but we had actually had only one so far this century!

As for guns, let me tell you, there are plenty of guns up here: people hunt in Carbon County, and I know people with dozens (note: that's plural) of weapons in their homes.

It's not the guns: it's the people, and the culture in which the people live.

Dana said...

The Second Amendment specifies that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; the Supreme Court is dealing with the actual words of the Constitution.

My suggestion is: if you really believe that guns are the problem, then propose a constitutional amendment to repeal the Second Amendment! That would be the honest way to do things, and would certainly be in concert with the beliefs of many people. Yet no one ever seems to make such a proposal seriously.

alicia banks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
field negro said...

Everyone should be armed to protect themselves from criminals and overly strong rapists.'

Hmmm, "overly strong rapist"? Maybe Anon.3:48 p.m. is on to something.

Dana, I hear you, but when you are in Killadelphia you aren't in Carbon County anymore. The only things we hunt down here is each other.

Still no proof that the alleged shooter was an illegal huh anon.?

Shady_Grady said...

I thought this was interesting.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/7/4/881431/-Why-liberals-should-love-the-Second-Amendment

field negro said...

Shady, thanks for that link.

kid said...

I bet that the NRA would put gun control legislation in the lawbooks immediately if more NBPP members were carrying guns instead of mop handles. Brother Ta-Nehisi Coates schooled the tea baggers in the Atlantic.

no_slappz said...

This Just In:

Police Look For Suspect in Saturday Night Shootings

Indiana Black Expo Looking At Itself

By Stan Lehr
7/18/2010

Marion County Public Safety Director Frank Straub attributes Saturday night's shootings to "a conflict between two groups." Does that mean Indiana Black Expo's Summer Celebration has become a hostage to gang activitity?

Straub is quick to avoid using the term.

"I'm very careful to say that something is gang involved", he said. "We don't want to empower people that don't deserve to be empowered, right?"

But Rev. Charles Harrison of the Ten Point Coalition is not so reluctant. He says he saw a lot of gang activity in the area where the shootings occurred.

"I'm mad as hell", Harrison told reporters. "Some of our kids are rude, bad, they don't care how they talk to people, they disrespect authority and they don't respect property or life."

Straub predicted that police will apprehend the suspect who is believed to be about the age of most of his victims, most of whom are in their teens. The youngest is a 10-year-old boy who was downtown without adult supervision.

The suspect is seen on surveillance video, pulling a gun in an argument with another youth. The shootings followed.

Straub and Mayor Greg Ballard credit Indianapolis Metropolitan Police with a quick response at the three crime scenes, Illinois and Maryland Streets, Georgia and Meridian Streets and finally Illinois and Market Streets. Rev. Harrison says he saw police officers using their bodies to shield children from the bullets.

Indiana Black Expo President and CEO Tanya Bell is quick to point out that the shootings happened in the streets, not at any event sponsored by Expo. She is not disavowing the throng of young people who crowded the downtown area. But she and the others insist that adults should not be using Black Expo as a baby-sitter. And she echoes the pastor's concern about black-on-black crime.

"When did it get to the point where our babies can pull the trigger without a conscience?", she asked.

Anonymous said...

no_slappz- "When did it get to the point where our babies can pull the trigger without a conscience?", she asked."

The answer to the question is it happened a long time ago when non-parenting, rap, and hip-hop glorified killing Blacks and degrading bw. Of course, UTS, Kid, and Field will blame Whites for the killing.

BTw, there was a shootout in Oakland late Saturday night. Here's a Youtube video taken by someone living in the neighborhood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6s7D1dMBc

kid said...

OK dumbass, in America most murders are done by people of the same race and usually relatives or acquaitances.BTW, Public Enemy, Paris, Queen Latifah, and X-Clan never made anyone kill or rape. I think you're talking about the rap music that marketed to white kids by white record excutatives.

Speaking of shootouts in Oakland the police had to shot a tea baggers that wanted to shoot liberals.

no_slappz said...

kid,

The murder rate among blacks has always been about SEVEN TIMES the white rate. SEVEN times more than whites. Always.

Before rap, before hip hop.

Then there is the murderous continent of Africa, where slaughter of blacks by blacks occurs at stunning rates on a daily basis.

I suppose you can find one or two enclaves inhabited by a small number of blacks who live in relative peace.

But everywhere else? Violence reigns.

uptownsteve said...

slappy seems upset.

LMAO!!!!!!!!

If slappy is attempting to claim that white folks who invaded every corner of the globe, raping, enslaving and annihilating people of color for the last 500 years are a "peaceful" tribe....well I think I'll just laugh at him.

no_slappz said...

uptownsteve,

Obviously you do not know anything about black history in Africa. But you are like most people, especially blacks, who conveniently forget that blacks in Africa could not read or write until whites arrived and began chaning things. Unfortunately, as literacy rates in Africa today show, not much has changed in 500 years.

Meanwhile, stevie, to sidestep the issue, you dredge the past to find examples of white mischief. But your examples always cite periods when the known world was governed by monarchies or other non-democratic, non-capitalistic governments.

Thus, your examples lack relevance.

Here we are in the 21st century, but most of Africa is at least a century behind.

When Europe was experiencing the Renaissance, Africa was experiencing? Nothing. Nothing but its primitiveness.

As the technical Renaissance of the 20th century swept much of the world, Africa became a cesspool of nations run by murderous dictators.

I know you will blame the misery and misfortunes of Africa on meddling whites. But that's a pathetic way of admitting that blacks have no capacity to govern themselves. All your arguments boil down to an admission that blacks are unable to form stable advancing economies.

But, I get the feeling you cannot see how your own words support the ideas of black inferiority. White supremacists must thing you're great.

Anonymous said...

Kid-"Speaking of shootouts in Oakland the police had to shot a tea baggers that wanted to shoot liberals."

He was not a tea bagger. Why do you lie so much, Kid? Lying seems to come naturally with you.

no_slappz said...

Tea-baggers, unlike members of actual organizations, are people painted with an ad hoc label.

There is no Tea Bagger party or club or society. At most, it is a state of mind, most often found in the mind of someone who wants to use the label to gather or exploit publicity -- good or bad.