My friends over at Phxsoul.com tweeted about the following story earlier, and I need to know your take on it."An Arizona State University professor who was arrested by campus police last month is claiming self-defense, and the incident is getting a whole lot more attention now that 3TV has obtained video of it.
“The reason I’m talking to you right now is because you are walking in the middle of the street,” Officer Stewart Ferrin said to ASU professor Dr. Ersula Ore after stopping her near campus. She was crossing College Avenue, just south of Fifth Street.
Click here to view the raw video
But in less than a minute, the conversation quickly began to escalate.
“Let me see your ID or you will be arrested for failing to provide ID,” Ferrin said.
“Are you serious?” Ore asked.
“Yes, I am serious. That is the law,” Ferrin replied.
According to police reports, Ore said she was trying to cross College Avenue in the same fashion as several others trying to avoid construction.
“I never once saw a single solitary individual get pulled over by a cop for walking across a street on a campus, in a campus location. Everybody has been doing this because it is all obstructed. That’s the reason why,” Ore said to the officer. “But you stop me in the middle of the street to pull me over and ask me, 'Do you know what this is? This is a street.' ”
“Are you aware that this is a street?” Ferrin asked.
“Let me finish,” Ore said.
“OK, put your hands behind your back,” Ferrin said.
“Don't touch me,” Ore said. “Get your hands off me.”
Seconds later, things escalated even further.
“Put your hand behind your back. I’m going to slam you on this car. Put your hand behind your back,” Ferrin said.
“You really want to do that? Do you see what I’m wearing? Do you see?” Ore said.
She was wearing a black dress and after being "slammed" onto the car, she was wrestled to the ground. Her dress hiked up and her body was exposed.
While both Ore and Ferrin suffered some minor injuries, Ore was charged with aggravated assault on a police officer in addition to criminal damage and obstructing a thoroughfare. She intends to fight the charges.
Ore's attorney, Alane Roby, says Ore is claiming self-defense.
"She was exposed, told officer she was exposed," Roby said of her client while she was on the ground. "Her dress was up; the officer was reaching toward her anatomy. She felt uncomfortable with hands going there."
Professor Ore is an English professor whose research interests include cultural studies, according to ASU's website.
ASU released this statement to 3TV:
“ASU authorities have reviewed the circumstances surrounding the arrest and have found no evidence of inappropriate actions by the ASUPD officers involved. Should such evidence be discovered, an additional, thorough inquiry will be conducted and appropriate actions taken.
"Because the underlying criminal charges are pending, there is not much more we can say at this time. The Maricopa County Attorney's Office has reviewed all available evidence, including the police report, witness statements, and audio and video recordings of the incident, and decided to press criminal charges of assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest, refusing to provide identification when requested to do so by an officer, and obstructing a highway or public thoroughfare.”
True confessions, I am giving the po po a side-eye on this one for two reasons: The obvious racial dynamic, and the jay walking charge.
Now I get it, I live on the East Coast, so the whole jaywalking thing is not something that I can even relate to. I can't tell the last time a cop in Philly gave a ticket for jaywalking.
But sadly, here we are. Another "color aroused" confrontation gone wrong.
And keep in mind that we are talking about Arizona. We all know that they have some issues out there in Alabama West.
Some are questioning why the professor didn't just take the ticket and keep it popping. As black folks we are all supposed to know the rules, but I can understand if sometimes you just don't want to play along. Folks have day to day problems that can be exasperated by these types of events.
Anyway, what started out as a jaywalking ticket turned into an aggravated assault charge.
I will be following this story.
Then there is Rick Santorum, he doesn't think that it was such a bad idea if everyone didn't have an opportunity to vote back in the day.
I know that there are a lot of black conservatives out there, and I would really like one of them to justify that position for me.
I am serious; I would like to have a civil debate on the issue with you. I know you will never turn on one of your own publicly, so feel free to shoot me an e-mail and we will talk about it.
fnblg@yahoo.com
Finally, I know that Philly is the city of brotherly love, but poor Bill Walters isn't feeling any love from his neighbors.
Bill believes that he is being discriminated against because he is a member of the Klan. Yes Bill, in America, Klansmen have rights as well. It's just that your neighborhood watch friends have rights as well, and they just don't think it's a good look for you to be a part of their group right now.
"We are a conservative Christian group,” Walters said of the KKK. “My rights were infringed upon. I can’t believe in what I want to? This has infringed on my First Amendment rights. It’s reverse discrimination.” He has reached out the ACLU for support in a legal case against the neighborhood watch group, but they turned him down.
The town watch president Joe Nicoletti explained the decision to kick Walters out of the group, saying, “We received information that Bill had been distributing flyers in the neighborhood trying to recruit new members. And part of our bylaws state that members must promote harmony in the neighborhood, and we all know that harmony is not what the KKK is about.”
Walters insists that the KKK is not a hate group, saying, “I know we have a bad name, but it’s not that way no more.” For instance, he asked, “When was the last time a black or Hispanic got hung on a tree?” [Source]
Bill, I think it's been awhile. I think.
But don't give up just yet, go back and work on your public relation skills.
I am sure you will be getting a call from FOX News real soon, so that might be a good place to start. They have a way of feeding the white grievance industry. (WGI)
Oh, and don't forget Rick Santorum; I bet you will get a friendly ear from him as well.
65 comments:
Field, "I am serious; I would like to have a civil debate on the issue with you. I know you will never turn on one of your own publicly, so feel free to shoot me an e-mail and we will talk about it."
Brother Field, do you think I'm stupid? If I sent you an email inside of 5mins you would have it all over the media.
You Liberal Lefties cannot be trusted as evidenced by Obama. You lie and lie and lie. You can't be trusted, unlike my Black Conservatives.
Rick Santorum is a good guy, just ask PilotX, who has adopted Rick's new label for Blacks...Blah. PX loves it. Apparently he can't stand the word "Black" because he doesn't want to be reminded that he is Black. So 'Blah' is great, it is so non-descriptive.
I watched the video and the sister was dead wrong. What is wrong with our sisters these days? They act like they can violate the law and disrespect law officers anytime and anyway they damn please.
Watching that video and how she acted pissed me off. And she considered herself to be a Professor? She must be related to that dumbass wannabe doctor on FN.
Pay the damn ticket and teach your class Monday morning.
As a former Chemistry professor myself, I think she should have thought about the "mental" advantage to be gained by avoiding being baited by someone who probably doesn't even have a 2 year degree.
DQAE
As a former Chemistry professor myself, I think she should have thought about the "mental" advantage to be gained by avoiding being baited by someone who probably doesn't even have a 2 year degree.
DQAE
10:48 PM
-----------------
Wow. I had no idea that you were once a Chemistry Professor too. I must say that you've done a lot of shit in your lifetime. And they have always been supreme. You are perfect and I admire you greatly.
What happened that you didn't stay? You could have had tenure by now and making great money. What school did you teach at?
WGI=White Grievance Industry? Now that must be a big time industry considering America is overflowing with wm carrying the burden of being White. Kinky knows this all too well.
Field, are you saying wm are paying money for relief? Lord have mercy.
The stuff the black professor went through for 'jaywalking' is modern day Bull Connor tactics by the police.
All of this abuse is happening under a black President's watch.
Whites really know how to stick it to Blacks and even more so while Obama is in office.
It's depressing to be Black in America.
I did not view the tape. A few things that I have witness in my time here.
1. Oft times professional Blacks feel insulated to racial "being put in your place"- and when they do they jump time and react like they are fresh in America. I don't have the solution to that one because in my day when we "jumped time" you felt that your racial cause was greater than your personal cause.
2. The officer knew what time it was and he took the opportunity to place this professor back on the Plantation. Police officers are trained to read body language and he can pick and choose who to smack down on trivial matters. Plus being a campus officer he should respect her for age and professional status and most of all she was a teammate in the business of selling dreams America style (old show from the 70s..think). She worked on campus and so did he.
Just recently coming from a vacation at the Grand Canyon, I stayed in Phoenix for several days.. Please Blacks, this is what I saw in my short period in Phoenix. The Black numbers are low single digits in demographics and I saw a lot of sadness as far as what I saw as I ventured out. Mexicans and native Americans were seen in the job situation. Saw a few Blacks at the airport. Even the VA had few Blacks. Yes I had to see the VA that started a new direction for us USVets, I hope.
Driving away from Phoenix in all directions was a chore.... plenty mountains and hot hot hot deserts. And I had a VW 4-cylinder. I really did not plan this trip. Who goes to Arizona in the summer?
To end- It is a terrible thing when your day you really feel Black comes. Only thing I can say for her is " you are old enough and you should have known better", And no... I am not disparaging her in her moment of being schooled .
thank you Still a Panther for this:
"And no... I am not disparaging her in her moment of being schooled ."
i can't watch the video either. what's the point? no doubt she is getting the man treatment.
and just as expected folk ready to pile on...
meanwhile the Oscar Grants can be fighting in public, the Sean Bells can get "traditional" at the strip club with a whole family at home, etc etc etc. and there is sympathy plus rallies.
maybe this lady should've started talking 'bout her degrees? run through those credentials and wow folk. lol.
at the very least...
knowing folk could NOT care less 'bout Sojourner Truth's question:
ain't i a woman, too?
that lady should've had on a pant suit before she forgot what land she was in and how Black women are treated in this land...
in and out of the Black community. in the past and presently.
upside:
no body cavity searches, which is what they are doing to Black women in other parts of the country...
to folk talking 'bout how the women were dressed rather getting some Oscar Grant, Sean Bell incensed about it.
Blessings all!
Well you know, that ASU Prof. was walking around campus like she belonged there or something. Jaywalking while black in ameriklan is one thing, but jaywalking while uppity-black in ameriklan? That has always required a beatdown of some sort. Its instinctual for white cops; they have slave patroller in their dna.
Oh I know all about the campus police. I got into a testy exchange right after I graduated. Needless to say it wasn't caught on tape and the officers straight up lied, one was a brother.
As far as Mr. Santorum I wonder if he was referring to blah people when he was talking about restricting the vote. hmmmm
PX
Anon said @ 1am plus
"the officers straight up lied., one was a brother" . That Brother had no choice. He has to side with his fellow offices in order to stay alive as well as maintain his status as an officer. When I confront a Black officer, I will act very respectful to him as well as the other officer. Black officers are constantly having to prove to the majority that they are racial denuded. Especially because most negative interactions are very trivial.
Let's make our interactions with these police of today be very brief and respectful. We are a smart people. We know when things are turning south.
Now I must admit that it took me about 60 years to develop this attitude. As a young Black man , I was going to go toe to toe with the police,,,, and I definitely knew the Black police were their " token" boy, now I just want to get home to my recliner with a remote in one hand and a n I-pad in the other
Yeah I was 22 at the time and full on Black power ranger mode. I guess it ended ok because no one got hurt and I didn't go to jail.
Field, often you post examples of police misconduct or brutality that I totally agree with, and I very much sympathize with the victims. Not with this one, though. The English professor handled this situation foolishly.
, Now I get it, I live on the East Coast, so the whole jaywalking thing is not something that I can even relate to. I can't tell the last time a cop in Philly gave a ticket for jaywalking.
I kind of doubt they hand out many jaywalking tickets in Arizona, either. What happened in this case was that the cops rounded a corner and almost hit this woman, who was walking in the street because of the construction along the sidewalk. So they were annoyed at her and decided to give her a hard time about it.
"Some are questioning why the professor didn't just take the ticket and keep it popping. As black folks we are all supposed to know the rules, but I can understand if sometimes you just don't want to play along."
That's what she should have done. You will never win an argument with a cop. Not sometimes -- never. If you think you're going to give the dude a lecture that will fundamentally change his outlook on his job, you are very much mistaken. They might not even have given her a ticket, had she not been so uncooperative.
If she felt she was being treated unfairly, she should have obeyed the officer and then later filed a grievance, or hired an attorney and sued, etc. Simply refusing to cooperate is guaranteed to end with your face on the pavement. That's true no matter what race you are.
"Then there is Rick Santorum, he doesn't think that it was such a bad idea if everyone didn't have an opportunity to vote back in the day."
This is nothing new where conservatives are concerned. Lots of them privately hold the view that some citizens matter more than others, to the point where only the "important, virtuous people" should have a voice in society. They are secretly not big fans of real democracy.
This isn't exclusively about race, either. There are also beliefs surrounding class, religious beliefs and culture, etc, that matter, too. Occasionally, as with Santorum, the Sarah Palin crowd lets it slip out that they believe there are Real Americans; therefore, this implies there must also be Americans who are somehow fake or second-class.
To these folks, the "good old days" were back when only the wealthiest white males had a right to vote and serve in government. They're a hop, skip, and a jump away from being monarchists.
Interesting points.
But should she have been charged with AG. Assault?
PilotX, be careful out there my brother, I am sure u do a lot of traveling and run into all types.
"But should she have been charged with AG. Assault?"
I do agree that that part was excessive and vindictive. Not the arrest, but what they charged her with afterwards. Hopefully, a judge will agree and will toss the assault charge or the prosecutor will let her plead it out. She hardly seems like some kind of violent menace to society.
The woman delivered a puny little kick to one of the officers after they'd already cuffed her. If I were him, I'd actually be embarrassed to call that an assault.
This is for Fat Ass Bill:
Rep. Issa: Shielding $300 Billion in Tax Evasion
by RALPH NADER
The IRS has been under loud scrutiny as of late by House Republicans regarding the agency’s role in targeting conservative-leaning political nonprofit groups applying for tax exempt status. Representative Darrell Issa (R-CA) has led the charge in these fiery hearings, earlier this week accusing IRS Commissioner John Koskinen of “game playing” by failing to produce key emails from a senior IRS official. Ranking minority Committee member Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) provided a very different account of the entire episode, apologizing to Koskinen for having to “go through this hell.”
“When was the last time a black or Hispanic got hung on a tree?”
That's the all-time classic argument for amicability. You can love us now--we stopped lynching!
Jeezus.
"They have a way of feeding the white grievance industry. (WGI)"
Is it the same way field feeds the black grievance industry? (BGI)
Are all grievance industries feed equally?
"The woman delivered a puny little kick to one of the officers after they'd already cuffed her. If I were him, I'd actually be embarrassed to call that an assault."
The professor was interviewed on CNN this morning. She looked very nervous and imo was not very articulate about what happened. She was accompanied by two people, at least one of them an attorney. The only person who spoke was the professor.
CNN showed a video of the incident. A shot of the white officer's leg injury was shown. It looked very red. She gave the officer a pretty good kick. SMH
Can we agree that you DO NOT kick a police officer?
"Can we agree that you DO NOT kick a police officer?"
Uh, no, actually. I mean, sure, technically, this is assault.
Poking the officer in the chest with your finger would also, technically, be assault, but I certainly wouldn't respect someone who pressed charges based on that.
Officer Crybaby is , ridiculously milking this charge, apparently because he does not like the woman. It isn't as if she strolled up to him and threw a punch. The reality is that suspects are often going to struggle a bit when you're taking them into custody, and if you can't deal with that and are going to insist on assault charges every time you make an arrest, you probably should reconsider your career as a police officer.
I'm good Field, only been arrested once in the Chicago suburbs years ago but since then I've been good. Had to get it out of my system. Ha!
What white person did you assault or rob?
I'm just glad he or she wasn't killed.
I can understand the need for blacks to get their pound of white flesh.
Since you're the "man" now, hows about taking it easy on your white brothers and sisters?
Field, you should read ginandtacos today:
http://www.ginandtacos.com/
Ed is Polish-American but you two would have a lot to agree about. (it's not about the Arizona Professor case)
Most whities haven't considered what would happen to blacks engaged in "open carry" but I guess the shortest measurable time would be how long it takes blacks to conclude what would happen if THEY carried.
Two women busted in attack on man, 79, in Brooklyn
Raven Small, 20, and Tatyana Bone, 18, were arrested for the attack in Williamsburg, say cops.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/women-busted-attack-man-79-brooklyn-article-1.1848656#ixzz3698zRSPF
The knockout game is just a myth.
Right?
Arizona sucks.
I watched the video, but it didn't show anything until the last part where the two cops threw her on the ground. The only thing the video did was let you hear the exchange between her and the police. He sounds like he was irritated, impatient, and hostile from the beginning of the video. She sounds as if she was stunned and that she was trying to defend her actions, but he didn't want to hear it. Both were talking at the same time, which aggravated the situation, and it seem like he felt that she didn't have a right to say anything to him.
The police are not African American friendly. They never have been and never will be. They have the attitude that all African Americans are automatically guilty before proven innocent, regardless if they're male or female or whatever their social status may be. An African American could be the President of the USA and still be treated that way. Nothing has changed in America, the only thing that has changed is added accessories to make the dress appear to be different, but it's the same old dress.
The police will rough up or shoot an African American female just as quick as they will a male. During slavery and Jim Crow they hung them too. But we're living in a make believe post racial America.
"Two women busted in attack on man, 79, in Brooklyn"
Oh jeezus! One attack???????? We're doomed! The negroes are taking over!!!!!! Why didn't Sean Hannity mention this????????? Why do I only read about htis on FN????????
Interesting Obama press conference.
Does he have anything to offer bedsides blaming those he disagrees with?
Why doesn't Obama take questions from the press anymore?
Hattie said...
Arizona sucks.
Too many non-white people for you?
Get used to it.
FN said...
I know that there are a lot of black conservatives out there, and I would really like one of them to justify that position for me.
JUst because the democrats have a litmus test, why are you assuming republicans also do?
To be a democrat today you need to be-
Pro-abortion
Pro-gay
Pro-government
Hate people that don't agree with you
https://twitter.com/GloForCongress/status/483315873831075840
In the old days, FN used to be against painting white-faces on black people.
She's not a democrat so it's not important.
Not all black people are equal.
"The knockout game is just a myth. Right?"
Yes, absolutely.
**
"She's not a democrat so it's not important."
True dat.
The Purple Cow said...
"She's not a democrat so it's not important."
True dat.
Black Stormfront makes an appearance.
I wonder why white stormfront and black stormfront don't get together to go after all the blacks that don't deserve respect.
Sounds like a marriage made in hell.
FN said...
"An Arizona State University professor
If it came out she donated to republicans, would you still defend her or would you throw her under the bus?
As far as the 'professor' who assaulted the police officer, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
I hope they fire her.
"Then there is Rick Santorum, he doesn't think that it was such a bad idea if everyone didn't have an opportunity to vote back in the day."
We don't let children vote, do we? We also shouldn't let mental children vote.
Anyone dependent on the government should not be allowed to vote.
Very few women should be allowed to vote.
The reason our political system is dysfunctional is due to the mental capacity of the average voter. Back when voting was limited to the competent, this country actually worked.
Anon above, I take it u are referring to your friends in the tea party.
I have issues with the having a right to vote, but the Constitution gives it to them,so there u have it.
Bill, if they voted for "hope" they are as clueless as the people u support.
Algerians need to learn some composure in front of goal.
"Uh, no, actually. I mean, sure, technically, this is assault.
Poking the officer in the chest with your finger would also, technically, be assault, but I certainly wouldn't respect someone who pressed charges based on that.
Officer Crybaby is , ridiculously milking this charge, apparently because he does not like the woman. It isn't as if she strolled up to him and threw a punch. The reality is that suspects are often going to struggle a bit when you're taking them into custody, and if you can't deal with that and are going to insist on assault charges every time you make an arrest, you probably should reconsider your career as a police officer."
Everything you said was stupid.
You do not kick a police officer. When a policeman asks for your ID give it to him. Don't say "are you serious" like the professor did.
By saying "are you serious", she showed that famous "black woman attitude" (note carefully her tone of voice when she said it) for which she is now paying a price.
Now she is charged with a felony. Kicking a police officer (she left a mark) is a serious matter whether you think it is or not.
You sound like some silly woman (probably black) who thinks a woman ought to be able to say or do anything to a man (including a police officer) she wants and get away with it. I don't think so and apparently neither do the authorities in Arizona. The professor is in a lot of trouble that could easily been avoided by showing her ID.
Btw, I would like to see her performance evaluation at this university.
Blogger Kinky.Con said...
"They have a way of feeding the white grievance industry. (WGI)"
Is it the same way field feeds the black grievance industry? (BGI)
Are all grievance industries feed equally?
10:46 AM
------------------
Now that's a damn good question. Field should do a post on that so that we can get the 'facts' from FN folks.
Does that feel ok to you Kinky? On second thought, forget how you feel, we are talking 'facts' to be the judge.
"By saying "are you serious", she showed that famous "black woman attitude" (note carefully her tone of voice when she said it) for which she is now paying a price."
So true. I have heard that tone of voice many times against bm. Lock that out-of- control-manipulating-defying the law-woman up.
She was outrageous and didn't have a leg to stand on...no pun intended.
Bill, have u considered the possibility that the woman's face was painted white on her billboard by a member of her own party who thinks that she is the wrong color to represent said party?
Of course not. You are, after all, Bill.
Carry on.
field negro said...
Bill, have u considered the possibility that the woman's face was painted white on her billboard by a member of her own party who thinks that she is the wrong color to represent said party?
Of course not. You are, after all, Bill.
Of course not, that doesn't make sense.
Haven't you noticed how right-wingers embrace blacks that believe in their political agenda?
I've seen black stornmfront rear it's ugly head when blacks don't embrace the democrat agenda. And this lady is off the democrat plantation.
More likely a white democrat that hates black people that don't think as black people should.
Dems are more diverse than the gop will ever be. Pro life, pro choice, blah, Latino, white, Buddhist, atheist, Muslim, young, old, Asian, Indigenous, ect. What is the gop? Old, white and rural. Sounds diverse to me, not.
Now and then.
'GM is alive, Osama is dead'
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/05/nation/la-na-tt-obamas-answer-20120905
The number of recalled GM vehicles is approaching 30 million
http://www.forbes.com/sites/billkoenig/2014/06/30/gm-recalls-another-7-6-million-vehicles/
Does it seem like everything Obama touches goes bad?
GM, Iraq, income inequality, etc.
PilotX said...
Dems are more diverse than the gop will ever be.
Feel free to write down a few names of prominent democrats that are:
Pro-life
Pro-traditional marriage
Good luck.
PilotX said...
Dems are more diverse than the gop will ever be.
Oh, you mean by color.
Not by the content of character.
How old-school.
@Bill
"Feel free to write down a few names of prominent democrats that are:
Pro-life
Pro-traditional marriage
Good luck."
When has any Democrat ever said that he/she was against straight people getting married? I'll wait.
My point is that just because someone supports marriage equality does not mean that he/she is against straight people getting married.
Marriage equality means that you support heterosexual marriage AND homosexual marriage. Nothing more nothing less.
This is not rocket science, Bill, it's just plain old common sense.
And here i was thinking Marriage equality meant equality for all.
"Marriage equality means that you support heterosexual marriage AND homosexual marriage."
But heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage are NOT equal.
The black female "English professor" who is unable to speak proper standard American English. I cringed with every "axe" and malapropism.
It seems her "dontyouknowwhoIam" entitlement rant didn't get her very far, ladled out with generous doses of "you be disrespectin' me" garbage.
Welcome to Post Negro America.
Read the link to the "DWB" post.
Once upon a time, in the Negro-as-infallible era, I too, believed in the fiction of "DWB".
Then I started a regular DC - NYC commute up 95.
"DWB" is really just "DWAA" (driving while being an aggressive a**hole) and the two months I actually kept count, 96% of the offenders were black males.
The police need to be MORE vigilant, not less, in curbing the hyper-aggressiveness of the negro on the road.
Our area is rapidly becoming a "majority-minority" area and aggressive driving is now the norm - excessive speeding, lane changing without signalling or looking (just yesterday we had to take evasive braking because of a Bob Marley Wagon cut us off, screaming across three lanes of traffic at 90+ mph, to weave back across cutting people off with no room). Etc.
Negros are a blight on the world. Everywhere they are.
"But heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage are NOT equal."
That is your opinion. I disagree. How about that?
"But heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage are NOT equal."
In 19 states, heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage IS equal.
Anon 9:41pm, don't even try. The conservative mind is very linear. To them if you support gay marriage you automatically become anti "traditional" marriage. And you wonder why Bobby Jindal calls them the stoooopid party.
The gop congress, all white except one, all Christian except one soon to leave and somehow they're the party of diversity? Stoooooooopid!
I see color isn't something conservatives want to diversify. Sad.
"In 19 states, heterosexual marriage and homosexual marriage IS equal."
In almost every case homosexual marriage was imposed by a judge, against the will of the people as expressed in an open referendum.
The people are no longer sovereign in America.
You cannot dictate reality.
Homosexual marriage cannot produce children, not without involving another person. It is not the same, and it is not an equality issue.
Not all heterosexual marriages produce children especially when entered into at an older age. Are these marriages not considered equal?
Sophistry aside PilotX, the discussion should be why society confers any benefits, such as they are, to marriage, and why society might want to encourage marriage.
Heterosexual marriage confers advantages (i.e. the survival of a society through reproduction) that homosexual marriage does not.
You can make the case based on the merits of homosexual marriage, but it is not an 'equality' issue.
"Heterosexual marriage confers advantages (i.e. the survival of a society through reproduction) that homosexual marriage does not."
Bad argument, don't have to be married to continue the species. Dogs don't get married but they don't seem to be going extinct. We can't justify bigotry with supposed survival arguments that don't stand up to reason. For your argument to work the only reason to marry would be to procreate and we all know that ain't the truth. Nice try though.
But still that isn't the point, the point was one is not anti "traditional" marriage if one supports gay marriage. That is a silly argument that should be discarded.
"Bad argument, don't have to be married to continue the species. Dogs don't get married but they don't seem to be going extinct."
Marriage is the best way to raise children. People who breed like dogs live like dogs.
It is worth encouraging and any society that forgets that is one that is headed for trouble.
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