Looks like I am going to revisit this issue (interracial relationships) sooner than I thought.
What spurred me to thinking about this was an article I saw yesterday which I featured on my sidebar here. That, and a trip I took to the King Of Prussia Mall yesterday. The King Of Prussia Mall is, I think, the second largest in the country, so it was a perfect lab for my little experiment; especially on a busy Saturday afternoon in August.
Now of all the couples I saw yesterday- I am going to guess that I saw maybe nine or ten interracial ones; and none of them seemed to be black women with white men. Everyone of the interracial couples I saw seemed to be a white woman with a black man. ( I keep saying "seemed to be" because you just never know anymore)
So what does that tell you? Well it tells me that (and I know it was a very small sampling) black men with white women still far out number the alternative. So, in a way, the fact that according to the census bureau there are now 117,000 black woman white men couples in America, as opposed to 95,000 in 2000, (how do they keep track of this shit?) I guess that means we are making progress. Or could that just simply mean that the black female is changing her criteria for dating? According to the article I feature here, I think it means both. What the author seems to be saying; is that black woman can finally acknowledge that there are some f****d up pathologies with black men, and that their-black men's numbers, are too few based on a series of unfortunate social phenomenon. And if they can openly say this, isn't that progress? I don't know, is it?
Let me say for the record, that I don't now, nor have I ever had a problem with interracial relationships. To take that position would go against my libertarian streak. However, personally, I have never dated outside of my race. (I take that back; I did date a Chinese and a Syrian on two separate occasions; both of who were Jamaicans born and raised. I am not sure where that stacks up) I just always found sisters more attractive, and with very few exceptions, found that we have so much more in common. But I have never gotten on brothers and sisters who do, because relationships are something that's personal to the individual. Why pretend you are someone you are not just do date someone in your own race when you are going to be miserable in the long run? It's why I suspect that people like Clarence Thomas, Ward Coonerly, and Angela McGlowan, have all married outside of their race. They are much more comfortable with people who think like they do and who they perceive to be beautiful. Now do I agree with these people? HELL NO! But it's not because they are married to white people; no, it's because they hate themselves, and could not marry anyone but a white person.
I am guessing that most of the sisters who are now finding themselves in interracial relationships are not like the people I just mentioned. At least I hope they are not. I am guessing they have just run out of options, and they are just not finding good brothers out here. So, they look for just any good man period, be he white, purple, or whatever; who shares some things in common with them, and who will at least make them happy. You can't blame them for that; everyone wants to be happy. And if our brothers are in jail, killing each other in record numbers, or if girlfriend gets a job in Boise Idaho, just what would we expect girlfriend to do? Keep running to the store to buy triple A batteries for the rest of her life?
Now the article also mentioned some web sites; and at the risk at starting an e-fight with this issue all over again, I must say that I take umbrage with some of them. Dating outside of your race to make yourself happy is one thing. But dating outside of your race, and trashing brothers (or sisters) on your way to the other side is quite another. I have been in the company of some ignorant ass brothers who proudly declare; that they would never go back to dating sisters, because....well, fill in the blank. Now that's some ignorant shit. Just like the sisters on their web sites who slam brothers for whatever reason. Usually it's because some Ike had done her Tina wrong at one point in her life. So they cheer like hell because Whitney left Bobby; not because Bobby introduced her to the crack pipe, but because Bobby is... well.... a brother. Now that's some ignorant self hating shit for your ass. The irony is, that these types of people always seem to end up being miserable no matter what the race of their partner is. Real live cases of shit attracting flies if you get where I am coming from.
I have a white colleague, a very successful attorney here in Philly, who will only date sisters. And he does alright. Trust me, I have seen the dime pieces by his side as proof. But he does it for purely superficial reasons. He finds black women much more attractive that white ones, so for his own selfish reasons, he prefers to get his freak on with only sisters. Call me a hypocrite, but if a black man takes this exact position about white women it pisses me off. Why? I don't know maybe it's because unlike the sister, he has so much more choices. So to right off a sister because you find white women more attractive smacks of self hatred to me. It doesn't bother me when my white colleague displays those traits because his race and what it brings him will not make that an issue. But for a black man in this country, self hatred is a luxury you can ill afford, so if you find it manifesting itself in any way you should check yourself.
I am going to revisit this issue again, because I think it's important, and because there are so many other facets of this -such as the children of interracial relationships that I didn't touch on. I am heading back to the Mall now, but I promise you, I am just going to shop this time.
65 comments:
08 05 07
FN: I have never been to that mall so interesting your experience there! But why must you oversimplify this complex issue? Why do you say that Black women who are dating outside of their race may have run out of options? That is rather arrogant.
Just as you said, dating is an individual thing. I have dated interracially over the years not because I ran out of options but because I generally liked the guys who I was kicking it with. I am a free soul and at some point decided that I would get with ANY man I wanted to get with regardless of melanin content.
YES there are those who hate themselves and are with other races. But I am simply addressing what you said above.
My husband is a Black man. We met in a physics course at SFSU. I knew we were meant to be pretty much asap. He had also dated interracially for a spell.
When it comes to it, people are people. I think that love is blind, but politics are not. I remember the hostile stares and statements of young Black males when I would be out with some of the White guys I dated. I just laughed at their provincial way of thinking. I dared to be in public with my dudes whereas they were all creeping on the under anyways...Such is the complexity of Black american dating life...
I why would those census bureau stats mean we are making progress? To me it seems like we are starting to give up on our brothers. Maybe that's not the case with all black women that date outside their race but will we ever know that statistic? To each it's own, but I'll stick it out with my Black brothers. I feel like you Field, I'm more attracted to black men and we have more in common.
This is dicey. There are a lot of sisters I either know or know of who are scientists, artists, engineers etc. who say they just aren't indeed "good" black men. Then again, professionals, or single moms, or army chicks say the same thing.
The issue for me, therefore, seems to be the definition and breadth of the word "good." Some women yes DO want a man who shares interests formed from upbringing, from work and education. That's why you hear a lot of sisters who's "on-paper" man likely resembles "Frazer Crane" (or Niles) more than Tyrese. Being black and "aware" no longer counts as "in common" or defines you as a "good" black man. FN, your premise about Ward Connerly or Clarence T might hold some (a drop) of water, but I'd lay $500 in Vegas that a LOT of those sisters with white dude are pretty damn righteous, progressive sisters who are anything but Condi Rice types (and trust me, Condi dates BROTHERS...surprised?). The couple of friends of my wife who date white boys date fellows who actually are NOT any more educated or with less creditcard debt etc than any brother, but they say these guys are more "mature," they aren't 30 years old and on X-box like a teenager all day, they read fiction, they drive "nice" rides but don't go overboard on Benzes and such while trying to pay a mortgage, they honor their families but don't kowtow to their mammas, etc etc etc.
Then you have the Gen Y and Z sisters, brought up in the burbs and integrated high schools where race is a cultural construct, not history and power (or powerlessness). many of them have had white boyfriends and many see brothers as even more immature, un-together; my wife's niece says it's not the stereotype (proven false of course) that there are more brothers in prison than in college that's troublesome. It's the fact that too many college brothers try to act like they are in prison. She loves brothers, she dates brothers, but she also dates white boys and says they have "fewer issues and aren't as pig-headed, which is not to say that the white dudes I know aren't like that sometime, but they don't seem to act it out all the time." Direct quote from dinner at Busboys & Poets, Washington DC. So get used to this, b/c theres a whole generation of sisters who couldn't be bothered with brothers. I think you'll find that the only ones who will 20 years from now will the ones who are poor/uneducated and wpn't have any choice, unless they're in an integrated trailer park. Hate me if this all sounds crass but hell you know I'm speaking some truth.
So regardless of the direction this conversation takes, I think we as black men need to avoid the "poor poor pitiful us" victim tip we tend to invoke with issue, or act smug and say well we AUTOMATICALLY have something in common with sisters merely by virtue of being black and aware blah blah. They are a lot of us who seem to have all the physical and financial trappings, but our tudes are all jacked up. And there are a lot of sisters who simply have different ideas and tastes now, period. If they can't find a black Frazer Crane, then why scratch your head when they don't want what's thrown at them. That was the interesting premise of film "Something New." That might be the dirty little secret.
Gonna be interesting how you play this one out, Wayne.
Back from the mall, and checking your comments.
"Why do you say that Black women who are dating outside of their race may have run out of options? That is rather arrogant."
Let me address my girl mahndisa first: mahndisa, I am assuming of course that people would prefer to date withtin their own race. Correct me if I am wrong. But the impression I get from sisters is that they would prefer to be in a long term relationshsip with a brother. It could be because of family or social pressue but that's the way it is. Now if, as chris said, they -brothers- aren't stacking up, then sisters will go outside. I don't think that's arrogant, that's reality.
Good for you for being not afraid to openly date outside of your race. But I suspect that the fact that you live in Cali has something to do with it. Not so sure if a sister in Mobile Alabama would feel the ame way. I mean this all sounds good but there is theory and there is reality.
chris, I don't think the brothers will go the "poor pitiful us" route,simply because just like the young gen X sisters dating outside of their race, the young gen X brothers are doing the same thing. It's their parents and the olders black folks who have the interracial issues. And from your comments you seemed to be implying that only the brothers have issues. Not so. I have spoken to sisters who have been out on dates with white boys, and trust me on this one, they have issues too.They might not be playing X box all day, and "Kowtow" to their mommas, but they drink all night with their boys, and are scared to bring their dates home to see their mommas.
MF, not sure what you mean by "playing this one out". I can only speak for myself. The people commenting here can formulate their own opinions.
Peace.
It means how you are going to tackle this issue. Sorry for being unclear.
Now, I've got to object to the superfluous use of the word "race, and you know why! Race is a white supremacist fantasy concept, that has no basis in biology. When you walk through the mall, you can't see people's "race," because a person who appears to be white could easily have Black ancestors. You can't even see their culture or social background just by looking at them, so there's no point in making recourse to the argument that race is a sociological concept that involves culture and social group.
The only thing we can see to distinguish one person from another in the mall is their skin-color and other immutable skin-color-associated physical characteristics, like hair color and type, and facial morphology.
(Obviously, butt type isn't that important, because is a white woman has a "black butt" you still call her white. And if a Black woman has a typically white butt, you still call her black, regardless of the nature of her butt.)
Because I'm just not that attractive to women, I've never had the luxury of rejecting women who wanted to go out with me simply because their skin-color and culture were different from mine.
Frankly, after a typical lull in my love life, a woman smiled broadly at me and asked me my name, and I felt I was in no position (and not interested in saying) "You're white, Chilean, Phillipine, Irish . . . and so I have no interest in you and will wait until another Black woman notices me."
I had to date and marry whomever most wanted to be with me, regardless of their skin-color. So, my first wife was Chilean, my second was African-American and my third is Brazilian American. In between, I've loved Phillipine women, Irish women, WASP women, Polish women, Senagalese and Cameroon . . . and Portuguese women. (Always with a condom or after a blood test in a monogamous relationship, which is why I'm still alive to tell about it.)
I admire the kids in high school who, according to many studies, are increasingly ignoring their parents' obsession with skin-color and choosing their dating partners based on whom they like the most and who likes them the most.
If Black women want to increase their chances of going out with a Black man, here's a revolutionary suggestion: If a Black man tries to talk to you, don't treat him dismissively even if you don't like him. Be nice to Black men and word will get around. And don't tell him that you can't go out with him because he doesn't have a car, a house and a bank account, because there are white and Latino and Asian and Middle Eastern women around who are not going to apply that criteria.
Then, when that Black man, whose only assets are his kindness and intelligence, is seen with a white woman, this suddenly becomes the cause for jealousy.
When you see a Black man with a white woman, just remind yourself that he may not even have a car, good credit and a bank account, so Black women are better off without him.
Above, I meant to say "Afro-Brazilian" instead of "Brazilian-American."
Reflection on My Personal Experience w/Bi-Chromatic Dating and Relationships
When I say that "race" doesn't exist as a matter of biology, I offer that NOT to undermine people's sense of whom they want to date, but rather as a simple matter of biological fact. If people are determined to discriminate against white people (and white people against Black) in the context of dating, we don't need fantasy biological concepts like "race" to legitimize that discrimination.
For every instance in which the "race" concept serves our political needs, it disadvantages us is several other contexts.
"The irony is, that these types of people always seem to end up being miserable no matter what the race of their partner is. Real live cases of shit attracting flies if you get where I am coming from."
Michelle Malkin comes to mind.
Two of my last girlfriends were of another race, one is a Miwok Indian and the other is black.
In my experience, although limited, race was never an issue between us or our families.I loved them and they loved me, and we were just human beings.
It was other people who had "issues." When I dated the black girl, Elondria, I got a lot of hard looks from black males when we were in public. But in a way I understood, and no one ever really said anything, but I could tell they wanted to.
I think the thing I learned the most was all the subtle bullshit she had to deal with on a daily basis. Sometimes I would get so pissed off she'd have to restrain me.
Just crap. Standing in Circuit City for 30 minutes waiting for someone to assist us knowing that when I'm in there alone they're all over me as soon as I walk in the damn door. You know far better than I do about this, but for me it was new.
But she was a very strong woman, which is one of the reasons I loved her. In fact, both of them were very strong.
Elena, the Miwok, as I've mentioned previously literally knows every single person left in her race. (There's something like 100 pure blood Miwoks left). I can't imagine how isolating and terrifying that would be to know your race is almost extinct. That is truly fucked up.
Being with them taught me a great many things about myself and human beings in general. When you come down to brass tacks we are really just human. I know that sounds cheesey, and I'm not trying to be some "Colorblind Liberal," I'm not deluded. But ultimately it is the truth. Whether we ever understand and accept it is an entirely different matter.
I know to this day I regret letting Elena get away, and it has nothing to do with her being an Indian.
There is something else, and it's short notice, but tomorrow is the 6 year anniversary of Bush receiving Intelligence that Al-Qaida was planning an attack within the United States. Intelligence of course he ignored, and then a month later we were attacked.
My "friend" Blue Gal is having a "blogswarm" on this issue tomorrow.(When many blogs come together and write on the same topic).
I think it would be great to hear from you Field and your readers on the subject if you have time.
Here's the link if anyone's interested; Blue Gal
I suppose it is generational...as a member of Gen Y (jeez) I can't even count the number of my girlfriends who have dated outside of their race (I am included)it would be easier to count my friends who aren't open to it.
I dunno...personally for me...I would LOVE a black man (a huggable really tall one actually) but I am just really interested in what we have in common. There was a time when a close white male friend and I had better chemistry than the black guys I was meeting...yes I did live in Indiana at the time but it does happen.
Maybe because I'm so damn tall I have something else to fret over. I am just not comfortable with guys shorter than me. Stumbling upon man who won't feel strange with a 6'1 gf is difficult enough...I dunno...if I find someone who accepts me as I am and we have chemistry I am there.
I am odd though...tall men make me comfortable (lol)...in college I knew many women who couldn't even think of dating outside of their race because they wouldn't comfortable...they don't know if they are just an experiment or they couldn't deal with other peoples opinion...to each their own..but with my friends my age most of realize from watching our parents (who usually raised us alone) that our laundry list can't be cluttered with too many non-essentials...and I LOVE black men to death, but just unlike chicks who think a man with a BMW equals good credit and easy street (HA!)...I know that two black people do not necessarily guarantee true love.
As for there not being good black men left thats b/s...I am friends with plenty of them...they just weren't/aren't for me. Timing, personal tastes, distance whatever...it just didn't work.
People have a tendency to categorize their personal experiences and then try to make blanket statements which are not only ignorant...they're counterproductive...
Trust me, I have seen the dime pieces by his side as proof.
MF, thanks for clarifying. I guess I really don't know how to properly tackle this issue. I mean poeple like Francis and cluizel hit me with perspectives that I didn't even consider: The person who will take love wherever they can get it regardless of race, and the other physical attributes that partners might require, such as height.
But francis, you scare me man, I see your mug brother, and youare way too hard on yourself.In fact, judging from your comments, you seem to have done alright. A regular International lover if you ask me :)
Wayne.
This thing IS NOT about interracial dating. There is only one thing to say about interracial dating: Whatever is your preference is your business. Go for it.
This thing is about something else: Namely the racist denigration of black women and men. Plus it is about engineering and maintaining a black gender war.
I've been warning folks about this racist cabal for months now as you know.
Of course, I am the crazy black woman hater and whatever.
Well, it's time for whoever is concerned with black folk to pull their heads out their derrière and confront the issue and this organized effort to deepen the division between black women and men.
That's all.
MF, I am not sure I agree with you abut the "cabal", but I have to admit that there is a deepening division between black men and women; and it's troubling.
Frankly, you are probably right about one thing; I am sure society prefers it this way, and that's scary.
Brothers, sisters, and progressive minded people should all be aware of what is possibly taking place out here. The black family is fractured enough, and we have enough issues from outside forces than to have to be worrying about how we are going to get along with each other as well.
"I am not sure I agree with you abut the "cabal", but I have to admit that there is a deepening division between black men and women; and it's troubling."
I hope you are not in the belief that these things develop by happenstance.
White supremacy is an ORGANIZED world-wide system designed to protect and exalt a small minority of the world's population.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it is always best to be prepared for the worst though one might hope for the best.
Thanks, Field! These reality checks show us the difference between reality and self-image.
All hail the "afrospear", huh? What an auspicious start.
Sorry Field, I couldn't find much to agree with you on in this post.
1. Like Holland I “race” is a hard word to use. I think it's hilarious that we're all so obsessed with it, but it doesn't even exist.
2. "I am guessing they have just run out of options, and they are just not finding good brothers out here. So, they look for just any good man..." Ewwwww! No! Are you serious? My white husband isn't my “plan B” cuz I didn't end up with Lenny Kravitz.
3. "But the impression I get from sisters is that they would prefer to be in a long term relationship with a brother." It’s really interesting to hear this. My social group must be an anomaly because this is definitely not the case. I would however be willing to admit that I am more inclined to date someone in my own socio-economic class. I've found that I just don't have much in common with trust-fund babies.
4. And on a random note: Here in France the statistics are completely reversed. Everyday I see countless African women with their white husbands. (And their mixed-race babies.) The reverse is almost never true. I can’t remember the last time I saw a Black dude with a French chic. Hmm.
Anyway, I still love you.
love you too mademek, and yes; you are right about some places in Europe being the reverse of what it is here. Still, I think where one lives dictates to a great extent how they look at this interracial dating etc.
MF, I agree with you about the cabal on some things, but when it comes to relationships, I am just not there yet. But hey, I could be wrong. I sure hope not, and I sure don't want black people buying into the bull shit that the MSM sells all the time.
"The person who will take love wherever they can get it regardless of race"
Now that just sounds horrible...jeez..it sounds like anything besides black is settling
Okay, Field, here's my $0.02 on this subject:
The sistas I know who married white guys did so because (a)they believed the white guy treated them better than brothas, and (b)they gave up on finding a good brotha who was willing to commit.
Now that I live in DC, and the fact I'm from California, I don't even blink twice when I see an interracial couple anymore, because I'm used to it. But what annoys me is when those who marry outside of their race, try so hard to pretend they're not of a different race. I find this especially with brothas married to white women (and the irony is, those white women they're married to, are trying to be like sistas, so go figure!)
Sistas I know who are married to white guys - well, as far as I know, they're not trying to be white (one sista told me, "hell, he knew I was Black when he married me, so why the hell should I change up?"), and those white guys are perfectly happy eating collard greens, catfish...in other words, "Soul Food" on the real.
I think for most, they got together because they had a lot in common, despite being of different races. Who I have a problem with are the brothas who made that paper and now think that the sista who carried them on their backs while they were earning that paper, no longer has a right to share in the fruits of that labor (i. e., Bryant Gumbel, OJ Simpson, Michael Sheehan, and any other NFL or NBA player).
What!? Why can't a sista live large in that mansion she helped a brother to get? Why does it seem that a white girl gets the benefit of when a sista carried that brotha when he didn't have a pot to piss in, nor a window to throw it out?
I love my African brothas and I refuse to give up on finding a good one. But in whatever package God sends me my mate, I'm accepting that.
Let's just say, I'm ambivalent about interracial relationships - it depends on the individuals involved, and their motivation for dating one another. If they're truly attracted to one another and have a lot in common; I'm all for supporting that. If the motivations are for reasons other than why men and women get involved with one another, that's where my ambivalence comes in.
@ The Christian Progressive Liberal
" I'm ambivalent about interracial relationships - it depends on the individuals involved, and their motivation for dating one another. If they're truly attracted to one another and have a lot in common; I'm all for supporting that. If the motivations are for reasons other than why men and women get involved with one another, that's where my ambivalence comes in."
I think we should be able look at a black/black or white/white couple (or any of the infinite combinations) and feel the same ambivalence regarding their motivations.
Let's not automatically treat an "interracial" couple as more suspect than a phenotypically homogenous couple.
EVERY relationship is going to depend on the individuals involved.
Nastya, I agree with you, and I thought that's what I said. However, breaking it down to where you did, I find I agree even more.
Motivation is always what has to be looked at in terms of relationships, but it also appears to me that in terms of interracial relationships, sometimes, the motivation beyond simple liking and attraction, appears to be prevalent, especially between prominant brothas and white women. For example, would Virginia Lamp be with Clarence Thomas if he was just Clarence Thomas the Bus Driver, vs. Clarence Thomas, a high-up Government official turned Supreme Court Justice?
That's where my ambivalence comes in.
nastya said "Let's not automatically treat an "interracial" couple as more suspect than a phenotypically homogenous couple."
Just like to throw in my thoughts here. I do think that whilst this logic is desirable, it may not and will not be attainable for many black people because of the pain and hurt that lies behind the IR relationships that are based on self-hate.
I have to say, I have come a long way since being confused as to why black men just always did IR (what it appeared) but now I just don't care anymore. I really don't. I only have something to say when it is about colourism.
I am happy for black women though...I think it is important 4 many black men to recognise that IR has in ways crushed the way black men and women interact. Now, that is something to think about.
I also agree with christian progressive liberal fully when she says she loves African brothas. I know I do!
08 06 07
"MadameK said...
Sorry Field, I couldn't find much to agree with you on in this post.
1. Like Holland I “race” is a hard word to use. I think it's hilarious that we're all so obsessed with it, but it doesn't even exist.
2. "I am guessing they have just run out of options, and they are just not finding good brothers out here. So, they look for just any good man..." Ewwwww! No! Are you serious? My white husband isn't my “plan B” cuz I didn't end up with Lenny Kravitz"
FN: Just as Christopher Chambers mentioned the generation Yers and Zers etc, Madamek's comment totally exemplifies this attitude. My baby sister is only 22 and told me that in anthropology they teach that race is a social construct, much as Madamek and Francis Holland believe (and me to an extent..., but my life in the US leads me in a slightly different direction...) Anyhow, she has NEVER EVER denigrated Black men nor said that they are less mature. However, she does not claim fealty to dating Black men either. She lives in San Jose, CA where there is a lot of ethnic diversity but we are still a minority. Apparently, she has met some cool Black men but the chemistry wasn't there. So she has dated whomever. She is a very beautiful gal and simply doesn't believe in restricting the possibilities. A chip off the old sister block! lol hehehhehe
FN: You mentioned that you suspect me being from Cali has a lot to do with my attitude. Boy oh boy you are right about that! HOWEVER, I lived in Atlanta for about a year and a half when I started university at Spelman. Morehouse was across the street and I dated so many Black men I was in heaven. But guess what else? I ALSO dated white guys too. And in the open. In Atlanta, this was completely socially unacceptable.
I even was on a panel discussing interracial dating and the only thing I really sad is that the issue is complex and not just a Black white thing. I caught a lot of hell for it. So to show my steadfastness to my beliefs, I openly brought a white guy to Spelman's campus and flaunted him just to piss off those people. Then I went to Buckhead with him and pissed off more people. I just didn't give a damn.
So FN: I am recalcitrant and bullheaded wherever I go!
FN: heheheh
"So FN: I am recalcitrant and bullheaded wherever I go!"
Ah, a woman after me own heart.
I just always found sisters more attractive, and with very few exceptions, found that we have so much more in common.
You see I think this comes down to personal preference, ultimately. But I also think it's a result of what society has told us to love and not to love. It's become so embedded in our skin, that we believe we can only love our own--we think we can only mate with our own. We have become conditioned to believe that is all that we are allowed to marry--our own. That plays in right with your Howard Zinn quote.
And had you read his book, A People's History of the United States you would remember this quote from Chapter 3, entitled "Persons of Mean and Vile Condition":
It was the potential combination of poor whites and blacks that caused the most fear among the wealthy white planters. If there had been the natural racial repugnance that some theorists have assumed, control would have been easier. But sexual attraction was powerful, across racial lines...Mixed offspring continued to be produced by white-black sex relations throughout the colonial period, in spite of laws prohibiting interracial marriage in Virginia, Massachusetts, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, the Carolinas, Georgia. By declaring the children illegitimate, they would keep them inside the black families, so that the white population could remain "pure" and in control...
...What made Bacon's Rebellion especially fearsome for the rulers of Virginia was that black slaves and white servants joined forces...All through those early years, black and white slaves and servants ran away together, as shown both by the laws passed to stop this and the records of the courts....
...Racism was becoming more and more practical. Edmund Morgan, on the basis of his careful study of slavery in Virginia, sees racism not as "natural" to black-white difference, but something coming out of class scorn, a realistic device for control. "If freemen with disappointed hopes should make common cause with slaves of desperate hope, the results might be worse than anything Bacon had done. The answer to the problem, obvious if unspoken and only gradually recognized, was racism, to separate dangerous free whites from dangerous black slaves by a screen of racial contempt."...
LINK TO CHAPTER ONLINE: http://www.ditext.com/zinn/zinn3.html
Next time you see a commercial on TV that involves a couple or a group of couples, take note: They always have same race couples in tow. (And the black woman is always light-skinned, but that's for another post!)
You will never see a black female with an asian male, or a white male with a indian female, etc.
I saw one commercial recently with the AM/BF (with child--no less!) and I was gob smacked. I can't remember the product for the life of me. But I was proud to see this company via an advertisement was stepping out of the box. And it wasn't just a glaze over commercial, but they about 2-3 shots of this family in different situations. One shot even showed the couple climbing into bed with each other--nightie-night!
If you are put on this earth to grow and change with this person, wouldn't you grow and change the most with someone who comes from a completely different background from you (either socio-economically or race-wise)? Wouldn't you learn the most if you're challenged?
But it's not because they are married to white people; no, it's because they hate themselves, and could not marry anyone but a white person
This is a completely unfair statement. And you knew that when you wrote it, which makes this all the more disturbing.
If you are a well-educated accomplished black person (male or female), the odds of marrying someone also black (in the same intellectual realm) diminishes as you increase in the ranks of higher education. So essentially, you are saying the accomplished black folks should go out of their way to marry someone black, even if it means marrying down, intellectually.
This may seem to contradict with what I mention earlier about being challenged, but I didn't say being challenged by having to bring your partner up to the same level intellectually. At the same time, I'm not saying don't go for it--if that's your cup of tea then go on with your bad self!
I know you and all of your readers/fellow bloggers could not handle being married to someone who could not stimulate them, intellectually speaking.
You know Field, this is a hot, hot, hot topic for African American women today..... sad but true. I don't typically believe the hype - but I am one for open/free/love no matter the race. Great post - but I do have to say that it's not always a sell out to date outside the race, but just opening up and following your heart. I love black men - thank God, but I do understand if one chooses to date a person outside of their race. I just get upset when it is their one and ONLY preference.
Looking at these comments I once again am dumbfounded, though I guess I shouldn't be.
I had hoped that Wayne's comment "But dating outside of your race, and trashing brothers (or sisters) on your way to the other side is quite another." would at last get people on the right track. But no, like a bunch of gossip columnists folks discuss what really is a non-issue: Interracial dating.
Who give a f**k who screws whom and how and when?
The point of Evia's and McCauley's, Roselyn's and all these other women's blog is not interracial dating and marriage. It is the denigration of black women as non-evolved, lower order Mammies, and the denigration of black men as non-evolved beasts.
Now if y'all don't have an issue with THAT, then I can understand your pitter patter about the non-issue, private affair, of interracial marriage and dating.
But if you do. Get on point.
lucy, I love Zinn;" A peoples history..." is in solid rotation on my read list. But I have to agreee with MF somehwat on this. I think everyone is nit picking and taking the wrong things from my comments.
I can't say it enough; I have no problem with interracial dating-although I prefer not to- My issue is with those who trash the person of their own race to justify what they are doing. Plain and simple!
I think sometimes we make this thing more complicated than it has to be. I am not doubting anyones motives (That means mahndisa and all the other sisters who posted here who date across racial lines) I suspect that my issue is not with you, because we are pretty much in one accord on this.
I would love to hear from someone who just refuses to date a brother (or sister) because of issues they have with their race. And I would like to know why. What influenced you to think this way?
so a black chick that finds me attractive apparently has just 'run out of options'.
talk about bullshit...it seems like you are just searching for shit to say sometimes
chris...
"so a black chick that finds me attractive apparently has just 'run out of options'."
On the average, yes. The stats bear that out. Fact is, white women generally feel the same way. You'd be surprised how many white women a black man has to jump over on a daily to get to his black woman.
When we were stationed in Europe, particularly in Germany, the epicenter of white supremacy, we (the brothers in the Army and the DOD civilians) used to make a game of it. We used to (individually) go to the German clubs and find a pretty white girl that had her boyfriend sitting next to her.
White men, psychologically being what they are, are afraid of black men. So they don't say jack when they are by themselves.
So any one of us would start running game on the white guy's girl. In front of him. The girl would naturally look to her boy for a reaction, like: "You are going to take this?". You know, the manhood test women like to run on men.
Now remember this is the land of the Nazis. These folks killed millions of their own white folks 'cause they didn't pass their particular paper bag test - only that paper bag was lily white - American white guys have nothing on these German guys.
But I digress. Well, given the white boy's fear of the black man talking to his girl he was paralyzed. So, having failed the "manhood test" the white girl would be contemptuous of her boy and kinda intrigued by the brother's "masculinity". As a result generally the brother was able to get the girl's number, right in front of her white boy. Often she'd slip it surreptitiously, at times openly, on occasion the girl even left with the brother.
If the brother slipped her his number most of the time she'd call, and he would screw her.
We used to take bets...
Racism is a bitch, eh? Especially when it blows up in ya own white male face.
This shit didn't work with the resident Turkish guys, though. Them Turks got heart.
"so a black chick that finds me attractive apparently has just 'run out of options'.
talk about bullshit...it seems like you are just searching for shit to say sometimes"
Ahh chris, I have never seen what you look like, so I don't want to be superficial and make that assumption. Has a black woman ever found you attractive? If so, how did you know? Did you date her, or was she just a casual friend?
See all those questions?
BTW, You are wrong; I never have to search for shit to say! The shit is always right there in front of me ;)
chris...
"so a black chick that finds me attractive apparently has just 'run out of options'."
that's the problem w/ the way this discussion is framed in the media.
BW are more open to other men, in spite of what some members of The Community say. It means [she] finds you attractive and is not constrained by what others think; therefore, she will act on her attraction.
If a bw finds you attractive, it's just that...you're cute. Other men are not a consolation prize, they're just MEN!!
Mike - wonderful way to represent Americans & blacks!! Surely no one would DARE think you're an amoral beast!! {btw that's not what Evia's blog says. Mammy refers to the self-sacrificing behavior that flies in the face of a woman's best interests.}
lajane galt...
There it is again. Black man as "beast!!". Did I describe anybody raping anyone? Anybody talking to a minor? What, you think white women do not have brains?
And no, my dear, the meaning of Mammie is quite clear. Ain't no one referring to a white woman as a Mammie. You come on out here in the black community, the so-called ghetto and refer to one of the sisters in my neighborhood as a Mammie and see what kind of a beat down your racist ass is gonna get. Whether you are a black woman or not.
MF-
you don't have to rape or be R Kelly to be a beast. Acting an immature thug/pimp ass to get your revenge at yt is quite beastly, and most of all - unmanly. Even if she's really curious about that big black buck.
No one is calling white women Mammy because they have not been socially conditioned to sacrifice their well-being and existence as women to a "Community" that takes and does not give a shit. I've seen you misunderstand this discussion on Evia's blog.
ftr "black community" is NOT synonymous with ghetto. When I come across mammyish behavior, I welcome the chance to point it out (with an explanation as to why she must act in her own interests) quick, fast and in a hurry.
For someone who takes umbrage with the word beast, you are sure quick to reference bodily harm and the "ghetto".
"Acting an immature thug/pimp ass to get your revenge..."
You are making a lot of assumptions here. First off, you don't know the content of the conversations. These women didn't react to : "Yo bitch", nor did these brothers conduct themselves that way. They made polite small talk.
Second, they weren't out to recruit women to go and sell themselves in the street and bring them money. Thus no pimping involved.
Thirdly, they didn't do it for "revenge". Revenge for what?
Lastly, at no time did I say something about any women's curiosity about big black dick (buck). That is your prejudice. What I said was that the women tended to be amazed at the brother's brazenness in ignoring the women's male companions. What that has to do with "black dick (buck)" you tell me.
What you are doing is speaking in white racist code.
Which, as I pointed out earlier makes you a racist. I consider racists asses (as in donkey). Unapologetically so.
Let me add for those who are concerned about such things. Most of these ex-GIs are now married to black women as they had planned all along.
Lstly, I did not threten you with violence. I said that if you came into my neighborhood which is black, and you would call a black woman a Mammie, she'd likely give you a beat down.
That's just a fact.
All this back and forth reminds me of Jean Paul Sartre's play "No Exit."
If you haven't read it, you definitely should.
The play centers around three people, a man and two women, who are in Hell together locked in a room so they can drive each other insane for eternity.
The premise of the play is that "other people are Hell."
They never do what we want, never say what we want, and because of this we try and try to get them to, thereby driving them and ourselves insane.
These discussions, at least in my opinion, are symptomatic of this problem.
No two people see life the same way, and if we're honest that's what we want.
We want people to see it our way, and fuck what they think.
If "black" people just saw things the way I do then everything would be fine, and vice versa, but that's impossible.
I have no idea what's it's like being black, and the most I can do is try to speak with black people and learn from them as best I can, but I promise it ain't easy being white either.
Not that our struggles are the same, but all this shit we talk about whether it be racism, classism, war, poverty, starvation, Interracial dating, whatever it affects "us" as well.
One of the things I've noticed in my life, is that I often feel more comfortable speaking to black people in the "real." White people get upset and uncomfortable when you just lay it out, and speak from the heart. You're being "too emotional," and this is how the shit we talk about has impacted white culture. It's sterile, afraid, and like Sartre pointed out I drive myself insane trying to get them to stop, but it's pointless, and it's unfair.
People survive however they can survive. Some people get crazy and lash out while others close up inside themselves and hide.
This shit going on affects all of us and no one gets out alive.
"Whitey" may have the reins right now, but he can't figure out how to conquer death. It's still waiting for him just like it is for everyone everyone else.
And, again, believe it or not "Whitey" is my enemy and the enemy of many whites as well. We are well aware of this reality, but fuck we can't even agree with each other most of the time. We have no idea what to do about it, how to stop it or if we should even try because we're not sure if we can stop it.
It makes no difference to me if a Cop is bashing a black kid's head in because he's a "banger" or if they're bashing some white college kid's head because he had the audacity to protest this criminal government. In my mind, they are both my "people." The Underdog, the people that this Machine is crushing.
In your sidebar Field, you ask why are so many racist white people poor? It should be obvious. If poor blacks and poor whites ever said, "Hey man, we're both being fucked, and we need to do something about it."
Well, you're talking about Revolution. So, they keep the division. "It's poor black people who are tearing up this country. It's their fault. It's the Mexicans stealing your jobs, not the Corporations who can never make enough money." It's ingenuous in its simplicity.
Martin criticizes Viet Nam, oh no he can't do that, and the next thing you know he's shot down. Malcolm comes back from Mecca and starts talking about "We," and "pop, pop" he's shot down. Gandhi, the kids at Kent State, on and on.
You think that's a coincidence? The people in power know what they want, and they know what they're going to do. And while WE argue over minutiae or things we can't change they continue to tighten their grip on All of us.
I honestly believe that if WE don't make a stand soon, then it will be too late.
I'm sorry I don't know what it means to be black, but I've had my share of pain in life that I could do without as well.
We are still standing, ALL of us, and that counts for something.
Doesn't it?
Fairlane ...
"No two people see life the same way..."
Ok. Here's the inevitable white liberal who says that our perception of reality is only a perception. Contrary to what you are stating, fairlane, actually everybody, from the most ardent black assimilationists to the most ardent black nationalists see the world pretty much the same: Namely that we live in a white supremacist system.
If this were not so there would be no field blog, Afrospear, or even McCauley, Esha Moore, and her FASUM eugenics ladies.
The only difference it black folks reaction to that universally acknowledged truth.
Moreover, you yourself kno that the system exists and that it is universal and that you as a "white" person benefit from it.
Since you do, and you want to tell us the opposite, you reveal yourself to be a part and parcel of this system. So keep that racist confusiology at home.
Michael
It's you who gets "confused."
I said nothing about whether "racism" exists or does not exist. Only a fool would make such a claim.
When I say, "no two people see life the same." All you have to do is look around the "blackosphere" to see evidence of that.
I'm not talking about huge concepts such as racism, sexism, classism. I'm talking about people as individuals. What's in people's hearts. You can't know that, and this conversation proves that. I try to tell you what I'm about, but instead of respecting me, you want to tell me what I'm about because it makes it easier for you if I conform to your preconceived notions of what a "white person is."
I can't see what you see, just as you cannot see what I see. We can try through empathy, but that's the best we can do.
You want to make some kind of personal judgment about me based on generalizations.
I'm "part and parcel" of this system. So are you Michael. You think your anger is something unique?
We all grew up in this system.
What does that prove? Humans are products of their environment? Wow, what a discovery.
I'm not making excuses for what white people did/do. I'm pointing out they do it to everyone, to themselves. That's not an attempt to minimize racism at all. But when you get down to brass tacks Michael, all of us are being crushed.
I'm telling you, I see it in the white community. (And since I'm part of "Whitey's" club I think I know more about this subject than you. I mean I make sure to attend all the meetings, and I get the newsletter, "Whitey", every Tuesday. Gosh it's so peachy keen dude). I see the lifelessness in people's eyes. The capitulation and fear. Whether you have 100 rocks piled on your ass crushing you or 200 is irrelevant past a certain point because being crushed is being crushed.
This is something that unites all of us. If you don't want that then that's your personal choice.
But I see it as a point where we can see eye to eye and understand one another. If you really want change that's how it will happen.
I'm no "Liberal," Michael and I'm no apologist for the white race. When I speak I speak for myself. I'm not afraid of them nor am I afraid of you.
I rage against the shit I see every single day just as you do. What else do you want? What is it you expect?
You tell me I "benefit" from being white. Okay. So, that means I have some power you don't have. (I question that, but let's go with it).
We're both drowning, I'm a better swimmer,I'm reaching out my hand and you say, "No you're not reaching hard enough." Or "No, you're not doing it right. First you have to confess, and accept it's your fault I'm drowning."
I'm a human Michael and at some point I'm going to say, "Fuck this. Drown then. I'm going to save my own ass."
I'm sorry I can't bring the Cavalry, but the Cavalry wants to kill me too whether you understand that or not.
I originally linked to Field's post some months ago because I believed it was important for white people to listen to things they don't like or want to hear.
I can't do much more than that Michael. I don't know what power you think I have, but I can assure you I have none.
Do you not see that you are proving what Sartre said? You want to fit me in a mold, but I don't fit. Either accept it or waste your time trying to bend me to fit.
You ain't strong enough. I promise.
"I'm not making excuses for what white people did/do. I'm pointing out they do it to everyone, to themselves."
Now that's the biggest piece of crock I seen in a while.
Do you know your real name, Fairlane?
Your fathers?
His fathers?
His?
His?
His?
Can you find out if you want to?
I ain't trying to waste my time with you at all. I only like dealing with white folks who are honest. This shit: "We do what we do to you we do to ourselves" is not honest. It's a lie.
The fact that you are trying to spread that lie here on Field's blog shows that you have nothing but contempt for the brother.
Eugenics. One more time...eugenics. Michael, you said something about a lot of the Afrospearians feeling that they are a part of the talented tenth, and as such, they don't really disagree with Moore and McCauley. I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm not an educated person like a lot of ya'll on these black blogs, but I never caught that the sentiment of the talented tenth was that they were/are talented because they are gentically superior to the mass of black people. I may be wrong, but I never caught that.
Anyway, the issue for me is that McCauley belongs to a movement that apparently does believe that they are talented because they are genetically superior, and the AfroSpear is able to countenance that. Wow. I guues they don't want to take any chance on destroying their project through dissent, but damn. I don't care what the project is, admitting and even celebrating a eugenicist would be a deal-breaker for me. This is really astounding coming from ANY group of black people. Jesse Lee Peterson is not this extreme.
Anyway, as a plain ol' average, black guy, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an explanation as to why it's not a deal breaker to have a eugenicist as part of the coalition. Maybe I'm just not sophisticated to understand. Can I get that explanation?
"but I never caught that the sentiment of the talented tenth was that they were/are talented because they are gentically superior to the mass of black people."
Well, I didn't make myself clear enough. What I meant is that many see themselves as a class of people distinct from the "run-in-the-mill" black folk, but not necessarily via genetics. The notion of "more educated" and thus "somehow superior" black people as opposed to the "hotghettomess" black folk logically and inevitably leads to the conclusions that McCauley and Evia and Roslyn in the pic above came to.
I'm saying that thus they agree in principle though I doubt that most Afrospearians have taken the logic as far as McCauley has.
But the main point about Evia and McCauley is that they are the ultimate assimilationists. Now that is also something which I think characterizes a good bulk of the Afrospearians though they appear to do so more on a political basis rather than the biological basis which McCauley et al pursue.
Do I know my "real" name?
Honestly, I don't know. And I'm not sure if I can find out.
When I tried to trace the lineage of my family many years ago, I continuously ran into dead ends.
Either their countries of origin didn't keep birth records of anyone unless they were Royalty, or at least wealthy, or because they were forced to flee their countries of origin and left behind most of their belongings and history.
What I do know is that no one in my family, at least from what I've seen, lived in this country until the mid 19th century, and most not until the late 19th or beginning of the 20th century.
I have Irish ancestors who fled Religious oppression at the hands of the English. I have German family who fled from the Nazis.
Most of my ancestors, especially the Irish and Jewish ones, were forced by the U.S. government to change their names. O'Reilly to Reilly as an example.
I do have Indian ancestors and I know for a fact that they were here long before your ancestors and the Whites, but the funny thing is, according the U.S. government they never existed.
I'm fairly certain "Stillwell" is not an Indian name. But as most of them were exterminated I can forget trying to find out who they were.
As an example of whites "doing it to themselves," I offer some of my ancestors. Dotienbier was their last name. Jewish. They had to leave their homes behind because the Nazis, for whatever reason, decided that the world would be a better place if they were not in it.
Some didn't make it out. What do you think happened to them? Do you think their skin color saved them?
The 6 million people who died in Nazi death camps are all my "ancestors."
When you couple that with the 20+ million, according to some estimates, Native Americans who were wiped out, I think I have you beat Michael.
Can you top 26+ million dead?
Those people were my family just like the family you lost. I don't know their stories, their names nothing. There place in human history just stopped.
How convenient for you to pick out one sentence among many and run with it.
I get the impression that's what you do. You look for something to get mad about, and let's be honest, it's not hard to find things is it?
I imagine Field can speak for himself, and if he thinks I'm disrespecting him or that I have "contempt" for him he can tell me to fuck off, and I will.
You seem far more "contemptuous" than I. But that's only my opinion.
Sigh. Ok. Let me deal with ya after all.
First, fairlane, I am not interested in the inter tribal warfare of the Europeans over who got to run this worldwide system of White Supremacy. The fact that 50 million and some white folks were slaughtered in that power struggle is of little consequence to black folk. The British, the Germans, the Russians, the French, they all acted equally savage everywhere black people were.
As to the Jews, they've made the decision a long time ago to become white. They've become so with great success. That success was made possible in America because of the presence of black people. Which fact the leadership of Jewish community in the US consciously exploited. They elected to become beneficiaries of white supremacy. So fuck 'em.
http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com
/2007/03/podhoretz-be-thanked-jews-
are-white.html
http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com/2007/03/podhoretz-be-thanked-jews-are-white.html
moreover I do not see how the lives of six million Jews outweighs that of six million Armenians, 20 million Russians, 500 000 Gypsies, millions of Chinese, Vietnamese, or, last but not least, 150 million of more Africans.
Now, since you are a sincere white guy or girl who wants to bring justice to this world, I suggest this: Since you define yourself as white and thus have all the privileges and opportunities which the white supremacist system affords you. Since you want justice, do this:
I will send you my bank account number and you can send me all your money and sign over all of your possessions and those of your children or future children to me and my child.
Then you agree to work for me for the rest of your life for free (I will provide some room and board). You will also agree to let me lease you out.
Should you be male: I have a homosexual friend who loves white guys. You will agree to let him bugger you at any time (of course it can not cut into your work time).
Should you be female, I have another friend who has a white girl fetish. He also has bank. So, you'll screw him at anytime I need you to. I can use the money.
Also, I don't like your name. I will call you Lassie from now on. If you are a good boy or girl, I’ll let you use my last name. You’ll be Lassie Fisher then.
Since you are Jewish, you believe in the justice of the Torah - an eye for an eye.
We got a deal?
I read an article about inter-racial dating, and the 10% of Black men who date outside the community is misleading. In this article, they went all into educational levels, and the higher the educational level, the % dating inter-racially went up exponentially. Then, they also broke it down by geographic areas...let's just say I feel for my Sistas in San Diego, San Francisco and the Pacific Northwest.
I will generalize....the educated Black women I know went into inter-racial dating kicking and screaming. It was a long process, and even then, it wasn't comfortable.
As for personal choice in the matter, I want to marry a Black man. I have enough issues being Black in America without adding an inter-racial relationship to the mix. Been there. Done that.
BUT, if it happens that someone non-Black comes across my path that I completely click with, I will accept it. Won't be my first choice, though.
Just being honest.
MF, and fairlane, I dig the dialogue and the passionate debate. MF, you make some good points, and honestly, I had the exact same fight with a white poster on another site. Yet, when it comes to fairlane, I don't get that from him -that he is a racist who somehow relishes his white status in society. Don't ask why, but that's my gut. It's kind of like pornography, I know it when I see it-or in this case, feel it.
In truth, I can't see any of the regular white posters here being of that ilk. People like Ralph, Topper,fairlaine,nick stump, and jimbo et al all, seem to have their heads in the right place. At least they are trying, which is more than I can say for some others in the majority populatin who come here to spew hate and roll. Or, who come, spit some bullshit, and when challenged, they run away and never come back.
I don't get that from fairlane, he seems to get it. And when challenged, he doesn't back down. That's all you can ask for, honesty and openess in a debate.
And MF, I am not sure where you get this "talented tenth" opinion of the Spear/or Sphere. But I can assure you that's not how I approach the matter of uplifting my race. I work from the ground up my brother, not the other way around. And I will stack up my work against anybody posting here or anywhere else.
I understand that we can't all have the same backrounds and upbringing, but we can all work together, and come together for the common good.
Peace. (for now ;))
Michael,
I don't "define" myself as a "white guy." This society says that I'm a "white guy."
If I said I simply view myself as a human being in the way the Cheyenne do, you'd accuse me of trying to be a "liberal" who pretends the world is colorblind.
The truth is, no matter what I say I'd be wrong because you want me to be wrong. You want me to be a certain way so you can justify your anger.
I cannot control what the world does. I'm not anymore responsible for my "race" than you are responsible for what's happening in Darfur.
If I knew how to stop the madness in this world, I promise I'd at least tell someone, but I haven't a fucking clue how to stop it.
I'm not your enemy Michael, and no matter how many ridiculous things you say, I'll never be your enemy. I have no more power than you do, and attacking me isn't going to uproot the foundation of the system.
You want me to mail you all my money. You take change?
Field I appreciate it. I truly do. I have the utmost respect for you, which is why I visit your blog. You keep me thinking.
I take change
Nothing wrong with eugenics That's how Jack and Jull got started. The people in my younger brother's generation started to poo poo all that elitist crap until they started having kids, and realized that not only did dear little Tanya have to go to public school with baby-thug Ray Ray, but that Ray Ray might be her only dating option as she grew older. Suddenly the neo Soul generation gets very right wing when it comes to their kids!
Chris Chambers...
"Nothing wrong with eugenics That's how Jack and Jull got started."
Well, at least we got an honest Negro here. Though me wonders what Nat Turner would've done with your behind.
Princeton. Bah. Good I rejected their admission offer...
Field...
"I don't get that from fairlane, he seems to get it."
Wayne, this is a quote from Neely Fuller:
"I saw an article in the Washington Post where some white person is tired of the confusion and they say instead of white people being called white, lets call them pink. It was in the Washington Post the other day, you may have seen it. I mean its getting crazier and crazier. And you have black people running around talking about "I'm Bi-Racial", my mother is white and my father is black, so I want a special category.......FOR WHAT? (laughter) The racists produce this confusion, and they're feeding it right now. You'll even have silly talk like a white person saying I'm part Indian. How can you be white and non-white at the same time...but, they can get away with it."
Once again:
"You'll even have silly talk like a white person saying I'm part Indian. How can you be white and non-white at the same time...but, they can get away with it."
White Supremacy operates best via deception and feel good.
Do not believe the hype.
I didn't know there were so many "baby thugs" around in 1938. Thanks for the history lesson and the semi-honesty.
My husband died 5yrs ago and I've only had a relationship with 1 person since then...He was a senior (citizen) and I'm sure used to women taking care of him...He is Black....so was my husband...Pathologically I could say that this man was a user, however I chose, and didn't ask, and basically didn't know the game....I had been with my mate for 19yrs....I was with the senior for sex only....despite all of my mistakes, I will wait on a Black Man....that is my preference....I just love 'em.....my eyes look at and for Black men....not that other men are not gorgeous,...I just yearn for a Black man...I still see the Kingdom, and the power....
I am in Cali, and trust and believe our children definately cross date, and I mean color based as well as sexually....Parents may not like it, but early on they realize that this is a strong possibility....
More and more we are moving away from having Nappy Hair...remember in the day how that was a goal ?
I'm sticking with the Black Man...I love 'em....they are crazy as hell, but I love 'em
" My strongest conviction as to the future of the negro therefore is, that he will not be expatriated nor annihilated, nor will he forever remain a separate and distinct race from the people around him, but that he will be absorbed, assimilated, and will only appear finally, as the Phoenicians now appear on the shores of the Shannon, in the features of a blended race. I cannot give at length my reasons for this conclusion, and perhaps the reader may think that the wish is father to the thought, and may in his wrath denounce my conclusion as utterly impossible."
-Frederick Douglass
http://afroamhistory.about.com/library/bldouglass_future_colored_race.htm
Very fascinating discussion you have going on here. I just happened onto it in my travels about the Web.
As for the solution to the problem noted by fairlane, I would suggest annhilation of our cursed species. The ills of which he speaks and which all have suffered at the hands of all the others will not end until humanity is at an end.
In so many ways I'm glad, as a black man, that I don't live in America. What a f****d up mess that place is. That said, I would only be fooling myself as where I am at is infested with humans as well.
So it goes...
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