Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Orphans of violence


Seems like every summer I am bitching about the heat wave that invariably hits my little part of the universe. This summer, of course, is no different. Philly is in the middle of a heat wave and it feels like shit. You global warming deniers can kiss my black ass. So anyway, it's 10:00PM at night and the heat index is 101 degrees outside. Can you believe that shit? 101 degrees!


So anyway, I am browsing the web from the comfort of my home, when I stumble on the article below written by Simone Weichselbaum for Philly.com. It seems that one of the unintended consequences of all the violence that we have been having in our city is all the orphans it has been creating. As if they don't have enough problems, now these poor children have been left motherless and without their family support system as well.

It just breaks your heart, but it's one more sad reality of life in the hood.


"LITTLE JABRAE BISHOP banged his head against the armrest of his grandmother's soft leather sofa and murmured: "I wish I was dead. Then I could be with Mommy." The announcement was enough to tear his older brother, Tyjae, and sister, Imajanae, from the TV, where they sat frustrated and despondent over the barrage of commercials for Mother's Day gifts. As each ad aired, Tyjae, then 8, begged for the holiday to be over. Two weeks earlier, the three children had said goodbye to their mother: She was shot to death on April 29. The slaying of Zenelia Bishop, 30, threw her three children into an emotional storm of doubt and despair. 'Nobody wants violence in this world,' said Imajanae, 13, after Jabrae, then 7, settled down next to her on the love seat. Imajanae wore a white memorial T-shirt that featured her mother's face. 'Whoever did this should go to jail for a long time,' she whispered. With the city's homicide count mounting for the third year in a row, police say they are seeing more orphans. The system struggles to help these children — as do the families who often take them in. Caseworkers and family members must reconstruct the home and school lives of the kids left behind, as they must when a single parent dies of natural causes. But children orphaned to murder also must deal with the fear and anger of losing their parent to violence. The result can be a crippling family crisis. 'Every murder has a ripple effect on those closest to it,' said Sgt. Tim Cooney, who supervised the investigation into Zenelia Bishop's killing. "When a woman, especially a hardworking, loving mother like Ms. Bishop, is murdered, the ripples seem to stretch wider and deeper, affecting more and more people. Entire families are forever changed and left in a state of disorder," Cooney said. Experts say childrenlike the Bishops are forced to cope with psychological traumas unlike those experienced by children who lose a parent to disease. They struggle with anxiety and fear, as well as with sudden disruption in the lives they've known. The Bishop trio have no father in their lives, and had no other choice but to move in with their Aunt Ruth, a kind woman who was raising her own two sons inside a cramped, two-bedroom apartment in the Tioga section. Ruth Bishop, 37, refused to place her sister's children in foster care, so the brood now is drifting in an off-the-radar bureaucracy known in city government as informal kinship care. It's a system overrun with obscure custody statutes and endless paperwork. Making everything worse, on the day the family buried Zenelia Bishop, Ruth lost her $13-per-hour job as a cook after Smokey Bones Barbecue & Bar in the Northeast closed. She now survives on $1,230 per month in unemployment benefits. 'I am overwhelmed,' said Ruth Bishop. 'Everything is pretty much left up to me.' After one afternoon spent with a reporter, Bishop said, the children cried. They knew their slain mother had caused the reporter's visit. After that interview, she asked that the press speak only to her about the case. The kids were too upset. "


"Either they don't know, don't show, or don't care about what's going on in the hood. They had all this foreign shit. They didn't have shit on my brother, man."


(Doughboy) Ice Cube~~Boyz N the Hood~~~


35 comments:

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

08 08 07

FN: Where is the address to send donations to the family? An issue is pretty seriously depicted. Solution? If all the Blacks in the blogosphere contributed five dollars to these children, they would be in a far better position. Let us know if you get that information. Seriously.

AJ said...

I'd be willing to donate as well.

Anonymous said...

True but they won't be the last orphans. Not that we should not help these children but this does not solve the problem.

I'm not sure where Field is going with this issue. What exactly does he want people to do. We live in a free society, we can not go into homes preemptively and remove children or punish people for what we think they might do at some point in the future.

Being poor does not make people criminal, if it did Hispanics would have as high or higher a crime rate than blacks as they have lower education and on average are poorer, their crime rate is higher than average but not even half way between blacks and whites in America. These reasons are obviously cultural.

The government can, at this point, not make people stay in school after 8th or 9th grade. We can't make them get good grades. We can't make them study at home, we can't make their parents be engaged in their education. All of these things are important to getting a job in the information economy. If someone has gainful employment they likely won't be selling drugs or sticking up folks. They won't be idle. They will have less out of wedlock children and if they do they will be more likely to care for them.

We know all of that, but we can not intervene and correct the root cause as the family level.

No one is going to invent massive amounts of money in an area with high crime, the risk is just too much as well. Well unless they can push the poor people out (and the crime typically goes with them).

field negro said...

Anon. my first gut reeaction to your comments was anger; that someone could be so ignorant and misinformed. But then I thought about it, and I realized that it's not your fault. You are typical of the programmed American-Always pursuing a happiness you will never find, a slave to what others tell you, and quick to blame others-in this case poor blacks-for your own frustrations.

Where am I going with this? Nowhere that you would want to go I am sure. But the truth is, that this is that kind of shit that's going on in America while you are pursuing your happiness. I am just telling you what's out here anon. Think of me as your own personal CNN to the hood.

And you seem to want to make this a black problem, while you imply that it is something that is endemic to our culture. Well you are right that it is more of a black problem (the stats don't lie) but I submit to you that it was designed to be that way from the outset. Yep, we are starting this race(you know the one where we pursue happiness) from way in the back, so no need to throw out the stats at me, I am well aware of them

BTW,it might be black problem now, but I promise you, it won't be for long. You can only confine shit to the hood for so long. Pretty soon the America we all share will clash ;)

mahndisa, and aj, I will see what I can find out about your questions. That is quite admirable of you,and whether you can donaste or not, the fact that you would even offer says quite a bit about you.

Hathor said...

Anonymous,
I have work with quite a few white women whose children were fatherless from divorce and where they were the only support for their children. Wonder how their children would fare if they were murdered. You know nothing of these children's mothers, but you seem to imply that it is their fault that they are dead. Why else would you be throwing statistics around in such a tragic situation?

Francis L. Holland Blog said...

RE: Blog Apartheid:
Field, this comment is at least tangentially related to your subject because I propose to you that "black on black suicide" is an insane behavior and one of the things driving Blacks insane is that we are subject to chronic, relentless color-aroused antagonism and oppression, at the hands of white AND Blacks! But, let's focus on one instance of whites' color-aroused antagonism for a moment:

I'm sick and tired of the constant grumblings about banning me at MyLeftWing for criticizing the blog apartheid practiced at DailyKos. For example, in response to my essay of yesterday, Gottlieb said in comments:

"My interpretation of MSOC's remarks was she has tried to gently guide the 'editorial' direction of this board, and part of that direction is not to become known as a 'kos bashing' site. Simple. What's not so simple is where to draw the editorial line between 'free speech' and 'bashing'. Assuming, the journalism is sound.If the journalism isn't sound and you're making wild accusations on the slimmest of evidence, then you should be banned forthwith."

Our of sheer self-defense, we Blacks have learned over the years to know just what whites say and how they behave when a lynch mob is forming.

Let's see: If I "cross the line" into "bashing" America's foremost blog apartheid site, which was "bashed" in the Washington Post this week about this very issue, then I should be banned?!

That's like saying, "It's alright to blog about Apartheid, but you MAY NOT bash P.W. Botha." And don't be a Nelson Mandela "shill" either! I's like saying, "Write about the Klan, but don't 'bash' the Klan!"

This is what happens to white people's minds under the influence of color-aroused emotions, ideation and behavior.

And if we're not careful, they make US responsible for making sense out of all of this crap.

Blacks subjected to these mental games are at risk for color- aroused emotional, ideational and behavioral disorder, unless we stick together and refuse to play along.

There are constant suggestions that "if this and that were to happen" then that would constitute a valid reason to ban Francis L. Holland, and this discussion is, in and of itself, a kind of constant oppression that warns ALL Black that we MUST NOT aggressively argue for our own liberation in the context of the whitosphere. At whitosphere blogs, we're "always outnumbered and always out-gunned."

But, maybe if we stick up for each other through the AfroSpear Black bloggers movement when this grumbling begins, then we can impress upon white bloggers that, in addition to the handful of whites demanding Black bloggers' expulsion and our heads on a platter, there are at least five dozen Black blogger opinion-makers, with significant Democratic-leaning voter audiences, and these Black bloggers are organized, angry and tired of the bullshit!

This is the e-mail address of Maryscott O'Connor, the owner of the MyLeftWing whitosphere blog who has publicly threatened to ban me for "bashing" the blog apartheid practiced at DailyKos. Please write her a e-mail and tell her that bashing apartheid is precisely what we should be doing at progressive blogs.

myleftwing@gmail.com

"Mary,

Is it true that Francis Holland may get banned from your site MyLeftWing?

If so, why?

Regards,

Adrianne George
Black Women in Europe
Blog"

Francis

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Anonymous:

The fact that you didn't post under at least a screen name to spew that drivel, says volumes about your stupid ass.

If you know nothing about African-Americans, drink your cans of STHU and allow those of us who know what it's like to be African-American, because we live it every freaking day, to school you.

Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Field, isn't there a PayPal link we can set up to get those donations for the family, cause I'm in on the donations, too.

Tasha said...

Field, it's been a while since I've stopped by but my heart is heavy after reading this post. If you know of how we can donate, I'm game also. I know it's only one family, but at least it's a difference made, however little.

field negro said...

Thanks for all your concerns about that family. The reporter that wrote that story will be out until 08/13/07.

If you shoot me an e-mail (fnblg@yahoo.com) I will give you her phone number, so that you can call her directly, and if the family is accepting donations, get the info that you would need to send it.

Anonymous said...

First off, I'm black.

Some of you people are either prone to overreact or you are not very bright.

No one is blaming the children or saying that people should not help those children. Those children are obviously innocent victims who had no choice in what happened. I was not talking about them.

1) I was asking why Field keeps on with this KillaPhilly another black person shot record stuff.

I asked him what he expects to happen or wants society to do about it. To my knowledge he has never said.

2) When I talked about "home intervention" I was speaking about the barbaric sociopaths who killed the parents of these children. These barbarians were raised/or likely not raised by someone at some point and followed a path that lead them up to these murders (if these are the first murders).

I wanted to know what it is that Field expect society to do to prevent this from happening.

Christian Progressive Liberal

"The fact that you didn't post under at least a screen name to spew that drivel, says volumes about your stupid ass."

Is this what they are teaching Christians these days in church? Glad I stopped going about 15 years ago.

If you actually stopped to fully read what I said and actually ask a question before you attacked like a rabid dog you might have got a respectful answer.

Maybe that is how you were "not raised".

As far as what Field said...concerning what will happen in America.

The crime rate now is lower than it was in the 1980's and definitely lower than it was in the early 1970's. I admit some of that is due to the fact we have over 2 million people in jail, but a lot of that is for drug crime (which I would like to see legalized anyway).

I'm not convinced that "KillaPhilly" style crime is spreading to my neighborhood, sorry.

This is primarily a poor urban or poor rural problem (regardless of race). The middle and upperclass don't commit many violent crimes. I don't know what kind of lawyer you are, but I can give you stats to prove that if you like. Sure one or twice a year some nut job or druggy middle class and up person goes on a mass murder spree or kills his wife and kid, but for instance if you add up all the violent crime in Fairfax country VA for a year that is the crime you will see in Washington D.C. in 2 months, but you got 10 months left to go.

What is happening in society is clear. We are becoming a two tier society. Productive and unproductive. Educated and uneducated. Intelligent and dull. However you want to say it.

Truth is this. In the 1930's most Americans were poor. Barely half of Americans graduated from high school. Black were worse off primarily due to racism, because even in the late 1950's most blacks were poor (over 50%).

However in the last 40 years as racism, classicism, and sexism have declined (not disappeared) more people who are upwardly mobile have moved up and out of poverty, despite being born into and their parents not being educated even at a high school level.

As society continues to be more meritocratic, those who are talented (i.e. intelligent, hard working, skilled) will continue to get out but at a lower rate than seen previous for obvious reasons.

If 50% of the population is poor you have a higher number of people who are capable but being held down by some 'ism, but as time goes on and those 'isms decrease the capable get out.

Back in the day (but for racism) a man with a strong back and a good worth ethic could get a job in a factory and earn enough money to buy a home, two new cars, and have 3-4 kids. Those days are gone, the bar to such a life style is much higher and depends primarily on educational achievement. This is going to cut a lot of people out of the game, because a lot of folks are not intelligent enough to go to college, some not even to get through high school. 50 years ago that was okay, you didn't even need a diploma for most well paying jobs.

So what do you do field I scanned over your site and I saw that you are all for illegal immigration, but that just further disenfranchises black males with low job skills (which in poor urban areas are the majority). The game is deeper than fruit picking on a farm. I'm talking about union jobs, skilled trades...all gone. Used to be bread and butter for a black man.

So what do you do? Throw more money in schools? Has not worked and we have known this since the 1970's. You can have the best teachers in the world and the most money but it does not make kids study when they get home, make them read, get their parents activity involved, it does not take the trouble makers out of the school system.

This is why poor white trash in Iowa and Utah out perform black kids in NY and DC who have way more money per child in school funding. Hell John McWhorter found (through original research he did) that poor white kids in states like West Virginia performed better in school than Middle class black kids (I believe in Cali).

So what is it society is supposed to do?

Last time I checked white klansman were not running through the hood impregnating women who were not married and making black males drop out of school.

Truth is this. The more time that goes by and the less discrimination (racial and otherwise) the more people are going to be left behind in the ghettos of America and poor rural areas (of all races) who are inherently dysfunctional, lazy, fundamentally unintelligent, or sociopathic.

The rest of America (including Middle class and upper class blacks) will just move way out away from them, or as is popular now to gated or guarded communities in urban areas while at the same time working (though politics) to push the poor somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

Field I know you believe all this barbarism is due to poverty and racism. We are not ever going to agree on that so I won't even start that argument.

As Shay puts in down on Booker Rising...the vast majority of black people in the ghetto today who are poor are poor because of behavioral problems. They did something to be poor. It is not hard to get out of poverty if you have the work ethic and the IQ. My grandfather grew up nearly illiterate in Jim Crow and still owned two business and kept a brand new cars in the drive way and owned his own home before 1965. So compared to when he came up it is too easy. What you are dealing with is not systemic discrimination (Cobb broke that down on his site a few times...as Leftist Masochistic Fantasy).

Want to get out of poverty...here you go:

Guide to getting out of poverty:
1) Keep a job, any job, no matter how pathetic. Money coming in is better than no money. Even if you have to commute by bus or train 5 or 6 miles away..fine.
2) Stay in school no matter what. Graduate from high school, no matter how bad your school is and at least go to a technical school to learn a trade/skill if you are not going to go to college.
3) Thrift. Do not buy outrageously expensive tennis shoes, weaves, rims, stereo systems, etc when you are living in poverty. Use money wisely. You don’t need a brand new car that will be nearly worthless in 5 years when you live in the hood, buy a used Japanese car with low miles, it will last a long time and try to buy it cash.
4) Credit…use it only in emergencies or to increase wealth (like a mortgage), not on bling bling and other “shiny things”. Keep your credit rating as good as possible because everything is credit based.
5) Do not have children (I don’t care if you need to use Norplant, whatever) until you are married or at least finished with your education and have a good stable job.
6) Stay away from drugs or excessive alcohol use and those who engage in such things…these and other vices (such as gambling) are counter productive to building wealth and getting ahead.
7) Do not have sex without protection, no raw dogging anyone…HIV will kill your black @$$ dead. If a man or woman sleeps with you easily that means they have done it before and will likely do it again, protect yourself. Avoiding HIV is easy, get circumcised and use condoms, do not be promiscuous…your chance of getting HIV is less than 1%. Nothing magic about it.
There are some other smaller things but these are basic.
If black people in the ghetto do these things, I am 100% sure at least 75% will be out the ghetto in their lifetime and living middle class.
If black people are not doing these things than that is a cultural/personal problem in that case business/community plans are not needed psychologist are needed in mass.
These things are not magic and they do not take genius, people of any race who do not live in poverty of large numbers in America do these things. From Chinese, to whites, to Cubans, etc. It is a very very basic formula, time test, and it works in most cases.

I think a lot of this is Fields "Middle Class Guilt" he feels guilty because he was blessed with a high IQ and stable family or family friends to lead the way and he can't accept that he was indeed 'special'. So he has to rationalize why others didn't make it. Either to blame the boogyman.

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

08 09 07

Anonymous by citing Shay at Bookerrising you are showing more of your ass than you realize. First of all, the logic that says someone is poor because they have done something to be poor is the most patently fallacious antilogic I have ever witnessed. Are you negating the children who live in poverty simply because they inherited it from their parents? These kids are STARTING off from a deficit.

Your story about your Jim Crow raised relative is great, and the same can be said for many of my forefathers. But the one thing you are forgetting is that during Jim Crow, Blacks had COMMUNITY. Blacks had overall GOALS that unified us. So even if life was tough under Jim Crow, I submit that there was more community under that system then there is now.

You are espousing that same ole same ole talented tenth nonsense which is necessarily elitist. By having such a smug self righteous attitude, you are CREATING and maintaining a schism between you and so called common people.

Your statement that you don't see urban crime infiltrating your neighborhood is foolhardy at best. When I moved from majority Black to majority White location years ago, I saw that Whites committed LOTS of crimes. Sure the bulk of them may have been non violent, but they were committing crimes none the less. In particular, in high school I cannot tell you how many kids ended up in rehab for meth and God knows what else.

In the ghetto, we rarely can afford to send our own to a rehab programme, so off to jail we are carted. Such cases go down as crime stats while the White kid in rehabs case doesn't get documented as such because after completion ofhis rehab his case gets THROWN away.

That you would deny that the very structure of this society was built to preserve on caste while shitting upon another shows your lack of full historical understanding.

I have no party affiliation, other than what is good for Blacks and all Americans. Go get some more education and live among those who you so quickly denigrate. I bet that will change your perspective!

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

08 09 07

Uh oh, after rereading your rant anonymous you have invoked IQ. IQ is an ill defined concept. That you so easily fall into invoking it says something else, more pathological than your first statement.

Hathor said...

Anonymous,
No one is saying that some of those things are not true, but blacks killed each other over crap when I was young. I'm probably your fathers generation and there were many more jobs back then, in the south where there was industry. Our economy is dependent upon 4 to 5 percent unemployment for the economy to be successful. The jobs unfilled are those that they import workers with HB1 visas. If we all are educated there will still be poor people, when there is not enough work to go around. What that would make for would be a revolution. Blacks would be killing more than themselves, if their desires to do better were never met. Blacks are not like other immigrants in that they have been accepted in some niches in the economy. I wonder how many black bloggers design their own web pages and couldn't get a job doing the same in an IT company. That niche is reserved for certain immigrants and the second generation and the young white geek, whether they really know enough or not. Having success is not necessarily dependent on competence or credentials in todays world. In the eighties I use to hear the cry from business, if only they had educated people and I use to see how if you used your intelligence it could set you back. Businesses wanted drones and not creatively thinking employees. You have probably made it and think everyone is you, but that's not the case. You may have made it when there was just enough guilt to give you a chance, or something about you is acceptable. Maybe you have breezed through life and wonder what is all the fuss about racism. I don't feel middle class guilt, I was raise middle class, but my work and life have been working class and I have worked long enough to know that if every black person had a PhD, many would remain poor in today's world. The boogyman is racism and black people have been written off. Its personal to me when a Cambodian immigrant who could not read English was considered a better worker than me, because don't you know, all Asians are hard workers. It didn't matter that I was suppose to do five times as much work as that person. This was on an assembly line where I could actually measure my productivity against theirs. This was not in the segregated south; this was some thirty years later near Philly. BTW I worked with white people who didn't have a high school diploma. Somehow they got hired anyway. We have to be the perfect Negro, to be worthy of work. On this blog there is not anyone you have to give a lesson as to how to survive. If you feel the need, be an adult and take yourself into those areas where needed and replace the street corner guru and talk to the kids.

I would like to ask just what do you feel for those orphans, such that you speak here of anything but there plight.

field negro said...

Wow anon. I don't know if I can follow mahndisa. She stated my feelings more eloquently than I ever could.

But you posed alot of questions to me, so I will try to answer you in a civil and thoughtful manner.

First, the fact that you are black does not change my original perception of you. In fact, it actually reinforces it. A common theme in your comments was to ask me what we should do. And honestly, I actually agree with some of the solutions you proposed. But those are all easy and obvious. Of course we should work hard,of course we should save and protect our credit,and stress education to our children.But you are just parotting republican and black conservative talking points that are getting soooooo old.

You are right, I am a lawyer, and without getting into exactly what I do for a living you will have to trust me when I tell you that I know a thing about the system and how it works. When mahndisa talked about plea bargains for certain affluent white children for more serious crimes than black children are committing, she is right. Not sure if you know this, but a criminal record makes it very hard to get a well paying job. It's a cycle, your parents are poor, you can't afford a good lawyer, so you plea bargain, get a record, and you are screwed. Your parents have money, you get ARD, or you go to trial and win. No record! So one of my solutions would be to stress more alternative sentencing for first offenders so that they don't get criminal records.

I would pump more money into child enforcement programs to insure that dead beats pay their fair share to custodial parents There should be more funding for rec and after school programs, as well as incentives for inner city school teachers. State land grant universities should accept more marginal high school gradutes and give them accademic support in their incoming years.

Trade Unions in cities like Philly, should be forced to put more minorities in apprenticeship programs so that they can get the $20 and $25 an hour jobs that the ethnic groups like the Irish have been getting for years. Anon. what you don't understand, is that many of these white folks that you seem to worship, got breaks along the way that you can't imagine. Yep, it's easy to have good credit when you make $100,000 a year with a high school diploma and a union card. While the poor black kid is working at McDonald's for minimum wage.

I could go on, but time won't permit me. Let's just say that I have laid out solutions before, but it might not be what you want to hear.

As for where you live,good for you. I hope you are very comfortable in your "house".

Oh, and you are right about me. I have been fortunate. I don't think it's a secret that both my parents were Doctors, and that I grew up with all the trappings that comes with privilege. But you are wrong about what motivates me; it's not guilt, it's survival.

That's the difference between you and me anon. I understand that no matter how much things I have, I wil still be just another nigger to most of your friends in America , and I am not trying to run away from that. I understand that I have an obligation to my race, because America will always see my black ass as just that, black. Just like they will always see you. No matter how big your house in your gated community is, or how many whips you drive.

Peace.

rikyrah said...

I believe I know who Anonymous is, and shame on Anonymous...Anonymous should post under the names that Anonymous posts under on other sites.

Field is writing about Philly, but, in my city, we have two orphans just this morning, due to a failed carjacking of a single mother of two. Recent college graduate, on her way to her new job.

The very SOUL of our community is being snuffed out; I don't give a rat's ass about the statistics of Anonymous.

From the young man who was shot on the bus here and saved another girl's life...

To the young bank teller, who was married, and going to school, who got shot during a robbery.....

To those 4 young people in Newark, going in the right direction, snuffed out execution style....

To this young woman - mother, college graduate.....

ALL young Black folk doing what could be called ' the right thing'...all snuffed out....our promise, our hope, our future taken out by the lowest ebb of our community.

The very SOUL of our community is being taken out. I agree with the comment about Ms. Bishop's murder hurting more...theoretically, all life should be equal, but I'll keep it real...if Pookey, Ray-Ray, and Hakim were just killing one another, it'd be disappointing, BUT....

But, they're not just killing one another...in fact, they have a tendency to NOT get their ' intended' targets, and snuff out those on the positive tip. ...and yeah, to me, that hurts us more. Leaves more work for those of us who are trying to be positive members of ' the village'.

Violette said...

It would be nice to set up an educational fund/ college fund for the children. The fund could be used to make sure they get school supplies, books, etc.

It broke my heart to read that the little boy wanted to die so he could be with his mother. I believe what the mother wanted most is for him and his siblings to live.

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

08 10 07

FN: Please send me the information about the reporter at mrigmaiden(at) yahoo.com Thanks.

Also, since you are an attorney, perhaps you may be able to lend your talent to start a trust for these chillun. Violette is right that a college fund should probably be started, but even more immediately, they will need new clothes, food, transportation money and money for tutoring and grief counseling. Just my two cents, but we are ready to act on this. Thanks:)

field negro said...

Good idea mhandisa, I will look into that. And you e-mail address has been noted.

rikyrah, I don't mind if anon.posts as anon. if they are more conmfortable not being identified, that's cool with me.

I just want them to engage with us, and learn if they have to, or teach if they have something to bring.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Anon,

you're quoting "Booker Rising" and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

LOL!

And furthermore, I'm a more of a Christian than those who spout off about "family values" and then get caught in park bathrooms offering black cops money to give them a blow job, so if that's the best you can do with your comeback, just drink your cans of STHU, because I already see you're getting beat down off this blog.

Manhdisa said it right - you continue to show your ass, and the fact you confessed to being a House Negro, just made it worse.

As for using my language as the reason why you don't attend church, I will file it under "any excuse not to be a Christian" to excuse your "compassionate" treatment of those less fortunate than you.

Everytime Booker tried to "rise" he caught serious smackdowns from those like W.E.B. DuBois and Carter Woodson, and the white man probably stole his patent on the peanut, too.

field negro said...

*ouch!*

Anonymous said...

Mahndisa:

What Shay is not black enough for you? She is black and proud as far as were I sit.

Yes sorry, most people who are poor today are poor because they violated one of the rules I said above. Find me a poor person who did not and is still poor and I will say they are not conscientious or not very bright. If my forefathers and yours could come up during a time when a black man eyeballing a white woman on the street would be lynched then there is little excuse for what we see in 2007. Most blacks don’t live in poverty because reality is things aren’t that bad. We are talking about a minority within a minority.

Everyone poor starts off from a deficit so what? You think my grandparents didn’t have a deficit being black and nearly illiterate and growing up during the depression having to hut raccoons and possum for protein (true story as many of our grandparents can attest to) life was not joke, but my grandfather (despite being dirty poor like a Somali and having guns) did not go murder his own people.

Elitism? Elitism is reality, get over it. Every single nation on earth has class stratification, ever ethnic group. Black Americans are no different. Classism is a natural consequence of people not being born with equal ability.

There is definitely middle class and upperclass crime. The difference is that although there are plenty of drug addicts (your example) in the ‘burbs there are not crack heads roaming the street and dealers busting shots down the block at each other. As long as the crime is relatively violence free and kept behind closed doors and picket fences people don’t feel like their standard of living is decreased. What does hurt everyone is violent crime…so you are comparing apples and oranges. IN the burbs people deliver drugs to you or you pick them up at someone’s house, a club, etc. In the hood dealers stand on the block usually armed. Big difference in environment. You are right about rehab…but I am for drug legalization anyway so you are preaching to the choir.

I have a firm grip on historical understanding, but my interpretation is different from yours, sorry.

I have no intention of living in the ghetto, I don’t need to live there to know it sucks.

As far as IQ, I don’t want to get into that argument. Lets say that people are not born with equal talents and ability and you can poor as much resources into a population as you want but only so many Issac Newtons are going to appear.

Field:

Thank you for answering the way you did. That shows class, a good example for others.

I’m not a Republican. I’m an independent and pretty much a libertarian. I hate Bush and the neo-cons, the religious fanatics, etc. I’m a fiscal conservative and hawkish on foreign policy but I’m for small government and free market economics.

I won’t deny racism in this country, only a liar, a racist, or someone in denial will tell you there is no racism. However black folks are not the first ones to face discrimination in this country or in the world. Thing is that “serious crime” has to happen before it gets to a plea bargain stage. If you as a black person know there is racism in the justice system then you should double or triple think your actions as compared to a white person. You won’t be in a the justice system 9/10 (I know there are innocent people locked up but we both know the vast majority are not innocent).

Universities should accept more marginal high school students then they already do and give them more remedial class of stuff that qualified students learned in 8th or 9th grade? Wrong answer, sorry. That just hurts everyone but dumping down education, we can’t afford to do that, the international competition game is too deep and we are losing ground as it is. How about getting rid of affirmative action quotas all together and focus on different types of affirmative action like, the top 5-10% of students of a high school are guaranteed entrance into state schools. How about tracking schools according to ability and interest and having kids test into the high school of their choice that they qualify for. Top level schools are basically college prep, bottom level are focus on real world trades. It makes no sense to teach to the middle and bore the hell out of bright students and dumbfound dull students. Maybe less kids will drop out if they were learning something they could understand (instead of complex abstract crap they can’t understand) and learn a real skill that they can easily see will earn them cash money after high school (electrician, trucker, welder, mechanic, etc). “Dull” kids don’t need college prep. They need skills that they can learn. Just because they are not “college” material does not mean they have to be poor.

I do agree with you on the apprenticeship thing…that is very necessary.

Sorry you are talking to a black man whose family has been here since way back before yours, and I am not white and I’m also not even close to poor and have a Master’s degree. Sorry but it is easy to have good credit when you don’t spend more than you earn and you graduate from high school. NO one makes anyone drop out. If I could work full-time and go to grad school don’t give me a sob story that someone can’t complete high school and work part time (hell I did). I wasn’t making 100K as an undergrad or a grad and nope parents didn’t pay my way. In fact it is easier for poor kids to get students loans than for me to get them because they considered my parents income when I was 18.

I also don’t agree with your last piece. I would say a lot of whites are racist and equate blacks with low class, but it has not passed on me athat many whites with preexisting stereotypes mellow when they find out the black person they are looking at is not “ghetto” so there is a race issue but it is also class and sorry no whites don’t see all blacks the same. I would say many whites see blacks as ghetto until proven otherwise, which is wrong, and racist however it does not help when you have Messy Jesse and Poverty Pimp Extraordinaire Sharpton on TV constantly making every ghetto issue a “black” issue as if all blacks live like that or have those issues. They are good at spin, make it a black issue and it has more pull although most blacks are not poor nor do they live in the ghetto you are talking about a minority. Maybe we should take back our image from these people and not allow them to project negritude as “blackness”…same for BET, MTV, etc.

Christian:


If you want me to take you seriously you will drop the low class negro talk. Not interested, take that to your friends standing in front of 7/11 24/7 all mush mouth with no job.

Black men carry themselves with more respect.

Anonymous said...

Mahndisa:

Can you tell me why liberals believe in IQ when some retard is about to be executed or is claiming he does not "understand what he did is wrong" liberals come out with all sorts of IQ test.

LOL

Then every other minute liberals are saying IQ doesn't meaasure anyuthing...oh until they can brag about their kid being a mensa member.

Can't have it both ways.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

Anonymous:

Once again, you show your ignorance.

I am an educated Black Female (two degrees and working on a Ph.D) with a job. You assume because I can flex between street and proper english, that I was another statistic, and not worthy of engaging in debate.

I won't bother to get into it with you, either, because you're obviously part of that talented tenth that DuBois spoke of when he mentioned that just because you kick the door in, don't fail to leave it open for the rest of us.

Your elitist thinking leaves no room for compassion for those less fortunate, no matter how many "intellectual" debates you try to facilitate here.

You managed to dismiss everyone else's points of view, and you've done it in snobbish fashion, too.

And again, anytime you quote "Booker Rising" you've lost me, because I don't have time for what those individuals have to say, because they're too busy trying to suck up to those who prey against our people, as a way of acceptance and comforting them that "not all Black People are loud and threatening, because, see, I'm not that way."

I won't bother to see your response to this gem from Malcolm X:

No one should be immune from sacrifice.

"To understand this, you have to go back to what [the] young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro -- back during slavery. There was two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes - they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good 'cause they ate his food -- what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved their master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master's house quicker than the master would. The house Negro, if the master said, "We got a good house here," the house Negro would say, "Yeah, we got a good house here." Whenever the master said "we," he said "we." That's how you can tell a house Negro."

~~~Malcolm X~~


Get in where you fit in...

brendan said...

FN: Where in Philly are you located (roughly)? I'm in southwest across from the kingsessing rec center. Since May we've had three shootings: my housemate saw 19-year old Leon Blackwell get murdered, but didn't recognize any of the kids. I was taking a piss and hear the driveby in late Junew/early July that left an unnamed individual dead at the intersection of 51st and Kingsessing. And just two weeks ago, another kid got gunned down on the far side of the rec center at 49th and Chester, another 19 year old.

And what does the Mayor do? Waits in line for his f-ing i-Phone. Anbd the Commish? he blames the victims for not stepping forward, seemingly not comprehending that the police don't come when you call.

I'll vouch for that: I'm on my neighborhood's town watch, and my house was burglarized, we called 911 tiwce and no one came. The next day, my girl had to go to the district to fill out the report and not only did they NOT receive the 911 call (they said), they also tried to tell her filling out the report was useless.

Come out to drinking liberally one of these days.

Hathor said...

Anonymous,
You admit you wont go into the hood, then why are are you here? Are you trying to convince others to do what you think should be done, while you sit on some porch and sip Mint Juleps?

field negro said...

Southwest huh? I must confess, my neighborhood isn't as hot. But I am over there (Southwest) alot. (55th and Greenway)trying to keep my young bucks in check. I used to live in Germantown. Now, given the nature of my 9-5, I moved to the far Northeast. I work in Center City for a city agency, and I have a private office in Mt. Airy.

Now that you know my whereabouts, I hope you aren't sending an Internet stalker to get me ;)

Ensayn1 said...

Field, great topic. I first read of the orphan problem in Kingston, JA. Fam I have in the Jamdown that worked in some of the schools there noticed an increase in student disruption and found that many of the young men had lost their fathers and mothers to the violence that was hitting Kingston about a year ago. Now the issue is hitting the U.S. Hopefully, an effort can be made to bring this issue to the forefront as I am sure its occuring in LA, Chicago and many other major cities in this country. Maybe, just maybe, by talking about it here will aide Kingston as we can see this is our problem and only we Black people can stop it!

Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

08 10 07

Hehhehe that anonymous poster seems like a troll that has been going over to black oriented political sites with the same ole IQ bs etc. He thrives off of attention and is obviously an ignorant hack. Let us honor this website by not engaging with the likes of this jerkwad again; after all it is simply a waste of time.

west coast story said...

The truth is that black people are our own worst enemy. After the assassination of Chauncey Bailey by some delusional "soldier," I'm completely done with excuses about why blacks kill blacks. After the deafening silence from the black elite in this community about his murder, I'm sick of middle class black people with their crippling survivor's guilt setting the agenda for how to fix the 'hood out of complete and abject ignorance.

After this past weekend chasing down gang bangers and trying to have their sorry asses thrown in jail, and will spend all day tomorrow on a vacation day, MY TIME, trying to revoke the Sec. 8 certificaion of two black bitches with psychopathic drug dealing teenagers, I DON'T BLOODY WANT TO HEAR ABOUT POOR BLACK PEOPLE WHO COMMIT CRIME BECAUSE THEY ARE SOCIALLY DEPRIVED.

You all decry the "don't snitch" mentality in the 'hood but in my book, not slamming black people who deserve to have brand new anal openings cut right next to the old ones is the half brother of "do not snitch." Harold Ford might be whatever people think he is, and I haven't a clue what he did, but he's never gunned down someone in cold blood for any reason. We slam Ford, we are silent about the human waste that is on our streets killing anything black that moves.

Here's my ghetto pass, folks. I fucking resign.

field negro said...

ensyn1, I am quite familiar with some of the happenings in Kingston and tyhe rst of Jamdown. If poeple think the shit that'happening in Philly, Detroit, and Newardk is bad, they should try going to Tivoli Gardens, Mountain View,Spanish Town, or railway lane in Mo Bay. So I know we have a serious problem down there as well. Please stay in touch with me, and let me know what you are hearing form your fam. down there.

West Coast Story, just breathe....I understand the frustrations, but don't resign your ghetto pass just yet :)

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