Wednesday, August 18, 2010

"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another”


I love that quote attributed to Jefferson.

So I was thinking: Why is it that people can be such blatant hypocrites in A-merry-ca and get away with it? For instance; my man Glenn Beck is all over this Mosque being built near Ground Zero, and his argument goes something like this: (I am paraphrasing) Of course they have a right to their religious freedom under our Constitution, but why do they choose to build a church there given how people feel about that? They should be more sensitive to the feelings of their fellow A-merry-cans, just because they have a right to do it, doesn't mean that they should do it.

Ahhh Glenn (and I hate to agree with your colleague, Greta Von Frenkenstein, but do you notice something about that kettle staring you in the face? Yep, it looks just like you.
My man, you are doing the very same thing when you hold your march on the anniversary of Dr. King's I Have A Dream speech. Of course you have a right to do it, but should you? Given how some folks feel about you and your views on race. (You did call A-merry-ca's first black president a racist) I call bullshit on it being a mere coincidence, you knew exactly what you were doing.

And as for this Mosque at Ground Zero, I see that something like seventy percent of A--merry-cans oppose it. I wonder how many of them lost loved ones on 9/11? I agree with
Bob Cesca when he writes the following:

"If we take Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Newt Gingrich at their word, their objection to the proposed community center two blocks north of Ground Zero is that the entire area is hallowed ground, and a Muslim facility so close to the site is an insult to the victims and heroes of September 11.

Of course this is entirely about a swath of 9/11 fetishists, mostly Christians, ginning up anti-Muslim fear and demagoguery to score political points. It's a cheap and obvious exploitation of the widespread American prejudice that anyone who happens to be Muslim is equally as guilty and offensive as the terrorists who hijacked and crashed two airplanes into the World Trade Center towers.

It must be an election year because Republicans are once again rolling out September 11 as a wedge issue. You know, because they care about honoring the fallen. When it helps them politically.

If Beck, Limbaugh, Palin and Gingrich, along with the entire population of far-right AM talk radio, really cared about hallowed ground and historical preservation, they wouldn't be limiting their crusade to Park 51 (formerly Cordoba House).

As many of us have heard, there's a strip club two blocks away. I'm not sure how lap dances are less offensive than a religious community center. In fact, there are quite a few places in lower Manhattan within short walking distance of Ground Zero that would have to be eliminated as part of these stringent guidelines dictating how sacred ground ought to be respected. Via Twitter, Sarah Palin urged President Obama to weigh in on the Park 51 issue. Well, I urge Sarah Palin to weigh in on the strip club "at Ground Zero." We're waiting, Sarah. Will you campaign against the strip club? How about the gun shows that happen at Cox Pavilion, not far from the site of the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the shinto shrines a mile or two from Pearl Harbor?"
[Article]

And I agree with Robert McIlvaine:

"Robert McIlvaine still struggles and probably always will. When the subject of his son, Bobby, comes up, McIlvaine asks that I give him a minute so he can compose himself.

Bobby McIlvaine, a Princeton graduate and aspiring writer who worked in media relations for Merrill Lynch, was on his way up to the 106th floor of the World Trade Center for a seminar that September morning when the plane hit. He never made it there. He was only 26.

Once the elder McIlvaine starts talking about the mosque controversy, sadness gives way to anger. How can people shred the Constitution to justify their biases?

"Nobody's asked me, and there are plenty of 9/11 families who feel the way I do," says McIlvaine, 65, a retired teacher who lives in Oreland.

When he first heard of the proposed Islamic center, he had no problem. "I didn't give it a second thought," he said. "And if you knew my son, you'd know he'd be rolling over in his grave over this."

As would the American Muslims who also died on that day.

"It's a sin what [fearmongers] are doing, making this about politics at the families' expense," McIlvaine adds. "It's producing hate, and it's the last thing this country needs right now." [Story]

Mr. McIlvaine, it's folks like you who makes us all realize that the terrorist lost that day. Sadly, if folks like Beck and company have their way, our victory will be short lived.

246 comments:

1 – 200 of 246   Newer›   Newest»
Rottnkid said...

Just like Randi Rhodes just said..It's the summer of hate.

Anonymous said...

Oh come on, Field. You know it's not a good idea for that Mosque to be built there. That hits a raw nerve and hurts the American heart.

I am surprised that you are advocating it, and I am sure Muslims in America join with 70 per cent of Americans others in the opinion poll, which is 'overwhelmingly' against it. And that poll has nothing to do with Newt, Beck, or Palin.

GET REAL and REALISTIC, Field. You are always out in 'Left Field'...get it?

RiPPa said...

The nutjobs are simply playing identity politics as usual. And of course the Democrats have been suckered into this debate.

First Harry Reid, and now Howard are giving fuel to the position of the hypocrites on the right by agreeing with the..

hennasplace said...

I wonder if anyone knows that there is a Mosque in the Pentagon building. That's right since 2007 where over 180 people (I am not sure of the exact number) September 11? Someone should inform Glen Beck. It's a cultural center and I can think of other things like the fact there is still a huge hole at the WTC nine years later.

Coffee and cigarettes said...

Fear mongering and scare tactics from the right, why am i not surprised! The same tactics were used in the cold war, the same tactics were used in iraq, and i see those tactics are still alive and working.

anon 10:02..fields stance isnt ultra left, it is common sense. something that is clearly not so common anymore. im sorry not all of us have lost our damn minds and given into hate and primitive, irrational fearmongering. you know what hits a raw nerve for me?the fact that the right is once again exploiting the tragedy of 911 and the memory of its victims..and once again it seems to be working.

Val said...

I think we ought to just outlaw all religions in this country. There, problem solved.

Jody said...

"You can build the mosque, just not THERE." "You can sit on the bus, just not THERE." "You can get married, just not to that person right THERE....."

Trapped in SC said...

NIMBY-ism gone amok, mixed with a little "brown people and their weird lifestyles, religions and customs scare me!" mixed in for good measure.

Sometimes I'm blown away by the rank stupidity of those on the right and their adherents.

But I'm never surprised by them.

msladydeborah said...

I always find it amazing that people who claim to be so upright in their faith are so intolerant of others.

La♥audiobooks said...

"I think we ought to just outlaw all religions in this country. There, problem solved."

Val please, that's utterly ridiculous. If you do that, then a lot of christian conservative folks won't have a place to got to on Sundays to congregate and plan-out their wicked doings for the rest of the week? Val you should know better.

(And I don't mean all Christian folk, calm down people, I just had my jugular replaced from the last couple blog threads).

kid said...

Field did you read ALL of what Greta said:

"My view? No mosque at ground zero and Glenn should move his event."
___________________________________

She didn't say to cancel the event, she wants it moved. BTW, did you see the tweet that Freulein Palin did? She told Miss N-word times 11 to regroup and reload, she said her 1st amendment rights were violated. The President needs to get the last combat troops that left Iraq and sent them to Fox New York to arrest Rupert Murdoch for sedition,inciting a riot, murder,involvement in two coups (both Bush terms), and endangering the lives of the troops by broadcasting anti-Islamic racist shows.

Sophia said...

Ms. Ladydeborah and Jody - Amen and thanks.

Frank said...

I note that Anonymous was anonymous.

Whether or not it is good political tactics to build a Muslim community center is irrelevant. It is legal and it is consistent with what American values profess to be and occasionally are.

It's just as legal as the strip club that's already just around the corner.

As a white Southern boy who grew up under Jim Crow, I must say that those against the Muslim community center sound a lot like the speakers I heard rail against integration when I was a young 'un.

It's race--er--religion-baiting, updated for Modern Times. But it's still race--er--religion-baiting.

La♥audiobooks said...

'BTW, did you see the tweet that Freulein Palin did? She told Miss N-word times 11 to regroup and reload, she said her 1st amendment rights were violated. "

Well, I hope insipid Sarah understands when people call children with down-syndrome the R-word they too are covered under that same 1st amendment.

Anonymous said...

Islam is a misogynisitc, murderous, fascistic ideology. It is not just a religion, but also a an oppressive legal code and a totalitarian political system. I don't want any mosques built in America.

Anonymous said...

How about a Klan memorial a block down the street from the MLK memorial in Memphis?

kid said...

Anonymous said...
Oh come on, Field. You know it's not a good idea for that Mosque to be built there. That hits a raw nerve and hurts the American heart.


10:02pm
___________________________________
69 percent of New Yorkers WANT the recreation center built there.If they wanted a Mosque at Ground Zero that would show the world that America is tolerant.

Bush destroyed our economy and started a unnecessary war and spent our surplus. When the President tries to connect with the Muslim world, Fox shits on the idea. They're back to their old playbook a noun, a verb, and 9/11.What blew up those buildings were Ronald Reagan's al-Qaeda. He called them freedom fighters.

Memorial Day 1921 white people got in airplanes and blew up the Black section of Tulsa and threw black people out. A lot of chuches built in Tulsa, Oral Roberts even built a college there. Maybe it should be given to the Black people of Tulsa and blacks can go there free.Who's going to pay for our 9/11?

Anonymous said...

If the Daughters of the Confederacy wanted to build a Confederate History Museum next to the place where MLK was shot, people would say, “No, that’s not appropriate.” If the National Guard wanted to put up a monument to itself at Kent State University, people would say, “No that’s not appropriate,” even though the National Guard and the DAR are honorable people. (And being honorable people, neither group would even propose such a thing.)

So, what the progressive left is really whining about is that conservatives want to treat American Muslims exactly like any other group of people would be… instead of being given special preference.

Anonymous said...

Kid: You ought to read some real history books instead of those NBP comic books. What a strange world you live in.

kid said...

Anonymous said...
How about a Klan memorial a block down the street from the MLK memorial in Memphis?

11:21 PM
___________________________________
THE WHOLE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS A KLAN MEMORIAL!

We want Tulsa, Rosewood,and other places that were stolen from us!

Anonymous said...

Coffee&Cigs, "anon 10:02..fields stance isnt ultra left, it is common sense. something that is clearly not so common anymore. im sorry not all of us have lost our damn minds and given into hate and primitive, irrational fearmongering. you know what hits a raw nerve for me?the fact that the right is once again exploiting the tragedy of 911 and the memory of its victims..and once again it seems to be working."

Yeah, 70% of Americans have lost their damn minds. And of course, people who think 'rationally' like you are sane because you don't get caught up in feelings. Tell me this. Are you human or just a robot who can't understand why MOST Americans feel the way they do about that Mosque being at ground zero?

Anonymous said...

Jody, ""You can build the mosque, just not THERE." "You can sit on the bus, just not THERE." "You can get married, just not to that person right THERE.....""

Why not add everything else, like you can dispense of nuclear waste, just not in our state of PA?

I would think a sharp legal person would deal with the issue at hand, which is is it a good idea to build a mosque at ground zero when 70% of American says "no!", and for 'good' reason.

kid said...

Anonymous said...
Kid: You ought to read some real history books instead of those NBP comic books. What a strange world you live in.

11:30 PM
___________________________________
No one wants to hear the crap you are spouting from the White Citizens Council. Read about black Wall Street on Wikipedia.Black people aren't pissed about the churches built in Tulsa and Rosewood so chill out. Besides those buildings in New York was blown up by Ronald Reagan's al-Qaeda not all or Islam, but the Klan and white christians blew up Tulsa and sotle Rosewood from us.

Anonymous said...

Well, I hope insipid Sarah understands when people call children with down-syndrome the R-word they too are covered under that same 1st amendment.

11:18 PM
laa

wtf? why r u so cruel? first u rail on black man like there is no tomorrow, then u rail on birracial kids who have non Black mothers, then u DEMEAN people who work as custodians and janitors, now u r throwing out an insult to Sarah Palin's mentally challenged child?
u r so very phukking wicked, albeit witty but still wicked why r u so hateful? as witty as u r couldnt u come up with a way to say something nasty about the persons views or politics, rather than to rub salt in the wound that is her ds baby?
u kill me; u really do sometimes u come across as smart and cool and witty but lately ur callousness and cruelty is starting to show what phukking gives?
eye thought u were better than that to resort to commenting on babies, who through no fault of their own, have congenital abnormalities...

*smh and disappointed*

Anonymous said...

Jody, ""You can build the mosque, just not THERE." "You can sit on the bus, just not THERE." "You can get married, just not to that person right THERE.....""jody whose been mia

glad to see u injecting some sanity into the conversation

kid said...

BTW, Sarah Palin called her own child retarted. Levi Johnston said that.

Anonymous said...

Kid u know as well as eye do that what people say about their own kids is totally different then someone trying to insult their kids technically speaking retarded means slow and many ds babies do have mental slowness but with good training and support they can often do well with their lives remember Corky?
lets be real laa was saying that shit to be witty but the point was to be very cutting towards Palins child cuz she dont agree with Palins politics or personality
hey eyem all for calling out things eye disagree with but why talk bad about peoples kids? that shit just aint rite and u know it and if u had kids (cuz eye dont know u like that) eye know u wouldnt want nobody cracking jokes or tryin to make witty comments on their backs!

Anonymous said...

Kid, "We want Tulsa, Rosewood,and other places that were stolen from us!"

Kid, no one is 'longing' for Tulsa, Oklahoma but you. Is Cleveland that bad? cause the whole state of Oklahoma is nothing but tumbleweeds and tornados. And a black WALL STREET IN OKLAHOMA? Please..

Besides, you probably got it all wrong, as usual. Whites didn't wipe out that so-called 'black wall street'... A category #5 tornado did! Get your facts straight Kid. And why are you using the movie name of a wm? You trying to be White? Forget it. You probably make Field's Lawn Jockey look like a Creole from Louisiana.

LACoincidental said...


Anonymous said...

Coffee&Cigs, "anon 10:02..fields substance isnt ultra left, it is common sense. something that is clearly not so common anymore. im sorry not all of us have lost our damn minds and given into hate and primitive, irrational fearmongering. you know what hits a raw nerve for me?the fact that the right is once again exploiting the tragedy of 911 and the memory of its victims..and once again it seems to be working."

Yeah, 70% of Americans have lost their damn minds. And of course, people who think 'rationally' like you are sane because you don't get caught up in feelings. Tell me this. Are you human or just a robot who can't understand why MOST Americans feel the way they do about that Mosque being at ground zero?


Anon, 70% of Americans don't want the Mosque at Ground Zero for the same reason why friend's COGIC Sunday School class was fearing mongering church ladies about gay marriage in California -- Americans are generally xenophobic, irrational and straight up bigoted. Its to believe that absolutely insane and act on our most base instincts than to settle down and actually think.

They're worried about silly things that don't matter. We built military bases outside of Mecca (i.e. we have our warmongering power in the Holiest City in Islam) and we're getting our panties in a bunch that local Muslims want to build a community center in the financial district? Are we worried that Osama bin Laden's gonna coach a intra-varsity basketball team? Mullah Mohammed Omar is going to teach a basket-weaving course?

Like Coffee and Cigs, me, Field and other folks on this board -- progressive actually use our brains and think critically, instead of letting our hatred and fears drive us to do stupid things.

Anonymous said...

anon 1201 is just no ballsackz

Anonymous said...

btw where u been lac

Anonymous said...

Kid, "Memorial Day 1921 white people got in airplanes and blew up the Black section of Tulsa and threw black people out. A lot of chuches built in Tulsa, Oral Roberts even built a college there. Maybe it should be given to the Black people of Tulsa and blacks can go there free.Who's going to pay for our 9/11?"

Yeah, who's going to compensate us? Let me answer that for you, Kid...NO ONE. You know why? Because Blacks like you are too busy standing up for others like the Muslims, Israelis, and the Mexicans who don't give a damn about us and would NEVER EVER lift a finger to help us. Negroes like you and Field make me sick. You are always spouting off for those who barely consider us human.

kid said...

Anonymous said...
a black WALL STREET IN OKLAHOMA? Please..

Besides, you probably got it all wrong, as usual. Whites didn't wipe out that so-called 'black wall street'... A category #5 tornado did! Get your facts straight Kid. And why are you using the movie name of a wm? You trying to be White? Forget it. You probably make Field's Lawn Jockey look like a Creole from Louisiana.

12:01 AM
___________________________________

I know the name of the category 5 tornado it was Hurricane Honkey. If Rosewood and Tulsa didn't happen, then 9/11 didn't happen either.

ziyena said...

I'm sick and tired of Democrats & Republicans bickering. Fuck both parties ... this is about A-Meri-cans! Field ... murder is murder ... it doesn't matter is you're Christian, Muslim, Democrat, Republican, Neo-Nazi, KKK, White Supremist, Black Panther, uhhh who the hell else???

Again Murder is Murder ... and by god if this was Pearl Harbor fifty years ago ... no way in hell would Americans build a Shinto Temple in the harbor ... we are patirots ... we love our country and Americans don't take it lightly nor do we forgive lightly ...
I have finished my rant.

LACoincidental said...

For all those comparing Muslim-Americans building a mosque near ground zero to the Klan building a Confederacy memorial near the MLK center -- please stop because I'm about to burn your strawman.

Islam is no more and no less murderous than the other two Mosaic religions, Christianity and Judaism. Not all Muslims are violent suicide bombers, just most Catholic Priests aren't serial child molesters.

What this is more applicable to would be the Mormons building a new temple across from the MLK Center since the Mormon Church wouldn't allow Blacks to become priests until the 70's and didn't end polygamy until the late 1800's. Or closer to home -- when rich white people start a community watch because a rich Black or Latino family moved into the neighborhood.

Again, we can't fix stupid, but we can definitely point it out.

ziyena said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LACoincidental said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
btw where u been lac


Working on my plantation, Anon. Co-worker on sick leave and almost every major IT system I manage crapped out in some ridiculous way over the last week. Earning my paper, son.

ziyena said...

Oh ... I forgot the Taliban ... those stone fucking throwing murderers.

There, now - I've really finished my rant.

Anonymous said...

LAC, "Like Coffee and Cigs, me, Field and other folks on this board -- progressive actually use our brains and think critically, instead of letting our hatred and fears drive us to do stupid things."

Well, that is a hell of a combination of brain power: You, Coffee and Cigs, Field and Kid. Yep. you four a good representation of grey matter.

Well, I guess that settles it, doesn't it? You are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong and is a hater.

Yeah, you sound like a tolerant progressive critical fearless person whose brain thinks without feeling. You sound like a well-balanced human.LOL

Anonymous said...

LAC, "Again, we can't fix stupid, but we can definitely point it out."

Boy, you are really on a roll calling folks stupid who think differently from you. Did you have a bad day at work? did your boss give you a bad evaluation because he thinks you are stupid?

Anyway, you have pointed out how stupid Americans are. Nevertheless, that Mosque will not be built at ground zero no matter how many times you say the word stupid. STUPID.

LACoincidental said...

ziyena said...

I'm sick and tired of Democrats & Republicans bickering. Fuck both parties ... this is about A-Meri-cans! Field ... murder is murder ... it doesn't matter is you're Christian, Muslim, Democrat, Republican, Neo-Nazi, KKK, White Supremist, Black Panther, uhhh who the hell else???

Again Murder is Murder ... and by god if this was Pearl Harbor fifty years ago ... no way in hell would Americans build a Shinto Temple in the harbor ... we are patirots ... we love our country and Americans don't take it lightly nor do we forgive lightly ...
I have finished my rant.


You're right, 50 years ago, A Shinto temple would not be built near Pearl Harbor. But we bombed two Japanese cities into the stone age, so I think we're even. Going back to your example, ziyena, we as a nation also locked up Japanese Americans -- US Citizens for criminals while letting Germans and known Nazi sympathizers roam free. Again, we're a rather racists and ignorant people.


Murder is Murder, and Racism is Racism. If you want to take out the 9/11 Killers, go arrest The Saudi Royal family who have been funding right Muslim radicals (like the guys who flew into the WTC) for decades. You don't indict an entire religion or race based on the actions of a few lone lunatics. That makes us no better than the Taliban.

La♥audiobooks said...

Nope. Not being cruel at all. Sarah once had the gall to compare the r-word with the n-word in terms of other people's insensitivity when she was trying to pimp her grandson's condition for her own agenda (yes I said grandson). So what's with the hypocrisy all of a sudden? She's a joke.

LACoincidental said...

Anonymous said...

LAC, "Again, we can't fix stupid, but we can definitely point it out."

Boy, you are really on a roll calling folks stupid who think differently from you. Did you have a bad day at work? did your boss give you a bad evaluation because he thinks you are stupid?

Anyway, you have pointed out how stupid Americans are. Nevertheless, that Mosque will not be built at ground zero no matter how many times you say the word stupid. STUPID.



I don't use the word 'stupid' flippantly. Stupidity is acting foolishly or ignorantly when you have the resources to know better. i.e. thinking that gay people, through the federal government, can demand that a priest marry them when the First Amendment clearly makes it illegal is stupid.

Anon, making sweeping conclusions about a 1/5 of the world's population because of the equivalent of an IRA attack is stupid, plain and simple.

Anonymous said...

Zieyna, "Again Murder is Murder ... and by god if this was Pearl Harbor fifty years ago ... no way in hell would Americans build a Shinto Temple in the harbor ... we are patirots ... we love our country and Americans don't take it lightly nor do we forgive lightly ...
I have finished my rant."

Good points. But you are wasting your breath on people like Field, and LAC. You see, they consider themselves rational critical thinkers! Your feelings and way of thinking makes no sense to the analytical mind born without the human component of feelings.

Thank goodness most of America does not think like those rational idiots!

Anonymous said...

LAC, "I don't use the word 'stupid' flippantly. Stupidity is acting foolishly or ignorantly when you have the resources to know better.

Well, then you know that trying to build a mosque at ground zero when Islamic terrorist took down our WTC is being a little stupid.

By your stinking thinking, to see this mosque situation any other way than yours is stupid. If you think calling people "stupid" will make your case, then you are being "stupid". Or maybe you are foolish because you lack resources, like human sentiment, feelings, and compassion?

LACoincidental said...

Anon, this has nothing to do with lacking compassion -- this is pure fear mongering, scaring the crap out of people on what would be rather standard business exchange in New York City.

I have compassion for those who suffered at ground zero, the families of soldiers who returned mentally and/or physically wounded or didn't return at all, as well as sympathy with the nameless Afghans and Iraqis who needlessly died in our fetish for war.

No, I don't lack compassion. I simply have enough education and experience to not let my emotions get the better of decency and reason.

Well said...

I think we ought to just outlaw all religions in this country. There, problem solved.


Best suggestion yet.

At the end of the day, it's surprising there's such disagreement between the Christian and Muslim faiths. After all, they both have so much in common: Intolerance toward nonbelievers; a disregard for women's rights; the propensity to stifle free inquiry; hatred of intellectuals etc.

It's too bad Newt and Beck don't realize they are only a stones throw away from the Taliban and Al Quaeda themselves.

Lady-Cracker said...

I feel that the Twin Towers should have been rebuilt, in the same place, looking greatly as they had before, reinforced and with some of the weaknesses changed. With a thoughtful memorial to all of the people that died somewhere in/on the building. Many of the great cities of the world have been bombed and have rebuilt. There are memorials, but the iconic buildings are rebuilt in the same but an improved manner. Like the Guildhall in London, or the Frauenkirch in Dresden. The world moves on and we need to as well, with the memory of our losses in our hearts....

LACoincidental said...

Well, I'd never go for banning religion, and not simply because I am a religious person.

And despite popular belief, without religion, knowledge would be lost. It was the Muslim who preserved the works in Antiquity and developed algebra. And the Enlightenment was sparked by and an outgrowth of radical thinking within the Catholic Church.

But you're right -- Beck and his ilk are so close to the Taliban in their way of thinking they should start wearing funny hats, misquote religious scriptures and carry guns to public meetings. Wait a minute....

Jibreel Riley said...

don't think of it as Religious Freedom, think of it as Zoning Laws thus you have the right to practice your religion however you don't have the right to build a place of worship just anywhere you chose!

Anonymous said...

I thought it was a community center...

Black Diaspora said...

"Ground Zero." What an intriguing term! The term is often associated with the following:

Ground Zero is "often defined as "the surface directly above or below the point at which a nuclear explosion takes place," the term "ground zero" is also used for the site of the collapse of the World Trade Center's twin towers."

Yet, I speak of another Ground Zero. The Ground Zero of which I speak is not the location of where the World Trade Center once stood, and several thousand Americans, and Muslims, lost their lives.

We all know about that one.

And we know, too, that in recent days the proposed site for an Islamic Community Center (also inaccurately referred to as the Ground Zero Mosque), situated a few blocks from Ground Zero, has come under fire, with more Americans opposed to its construction than are for it--some against it completely, while others think it's inappropriate. And, to point out the irony, this growing opposition totally discounts another fact: A building about four blocks from Ground Zero is already home to a Mosque that has resided in that location for years, even before the construction of the now destroyed World Trade Center.

Smelling the blood of a wounded animal, Republicans are already using this oppositional furor to move in for the kill--to score political points, rather than defuse what's fast becoming a controversial powder keg, as controversial as this administration's erstwhile plan to try certain terrorists in New York City, not far from the debris-cleared grounds of the collapsed World Trade Center Twin Towers.

There is another Ground Zero--one infinitely more important than the Islamic Center, and its backers who're resisting the public outcry to cease and desist.

This Ground Zero controversy, true to its original meaning, is quickly becoming "nuclear" in its scope and magnitude, whipped up by the various news media that need controversy to keep us watching their carpet-bombing approach to delivering the news--targeted at times, but massive in their coverage of whatever issues they believe will keep us watching around the clock--even if they're the ones to hype the issues supposed volatility, and to keep them front and center in our attention, whether or not the public has demonstrated an interest in what they're pushing.

What the public get from these news media is manufactured controversy designed to pander to our fears, our anger, and our stupidity--all for the moneyed purpose of keeping their ratings high, and their viewership growing. [...]

Anonymous said...

LAC, "You're right, 50 years ago, A Shinto temple would not be built near Pearl Harbor. But we bombed two Japanese cities into the stone age, so I think we're even. Going back to your example, ziyena, we as a nation also locked up Japanese Americans -- US Citizens for criminals while letting Germans and known Nazi sympathizers roam free. Again, we're a rather racists and ignorant people."

LAC, you have got to be the dumbest American in the world. Yes, we did bomb the shit out of Japan. They bombed Pearl Harbor, do you get it? Had the Japanese not attacked us we would NOT have bombed them, and we would not have locked up American Japanese. Do YOU understand how war works?

Let me put it to you this way. War is irrational. Usually the one who attacks by the 'element of surprise' has caused great fear in the victims. And NO ONE in their right mind is 'willing' to give them the chance to do it again... UNLESS the country is being run by smart 'rational' idiots like you, Cigs, and Field.

When we entered WWII, America's war was with the Japanese, not the Germans. That came a little later, and Germans had a terrible go of it. Those Nazis have been hunted down and killed. Germany does not want to fight again. Ye

The terrorists who see Islamic Jeehad as a calling to destroy us is REAL, you dumb shit. And no amount of rational thinking that tries to separate out the mosque and other Muslims from the terrorists is going to change those feelings at this time.

I am amazed at your inability to comprehend how humans think, feel, and act, especially after Islamic terrorists took down both precious WTC in the name of Islam.

And now you are asking Americans to 'try' understanding, and be rational, have a critical mind like yours and accept the building of a mosque at ground zero? GTFOH!

The Reality is, we don't understand, but we know how we 'feel' about it. Like Pearl Harbor the terrorists bombed us and we are still at war with Islamic terrorists responsible for 'ground zero'.

A fearful American heart and mind will not, and cannot ignore those feelings. It remembers where those feelings came from.... It remembers 'who' destroyed the WTC and what motivated them to do it...

There won't be a built at ground zero. The American heart won't allow it...Now if that is 'stupid' in YOUR mind, then deal with it, Mr. 'smarty' pants.

kid said...

Quick what's the Republicans plan to fix the economy? What's their plan to develop jobs? A noun, a verb, and 9/11.Fox is doing more to recruit terrorist than al-Qaeda.What New York should do is put a Mosque inside one of the buildings AT Ground Zero. The March on Black people by Beck and his Klan, burning Qurans, hunting Hispanic people, radio hosts being racist, the right is trying very hard to start riots. There's already a Mosque near Ground Zero. There's one in the Pentagon. This bigotry is puting our troops in harm's way overseas. Who the hell would want to translate for a American soldier when their country burns their Holy Book?

Anonymous said...

Nope. Not being cruel at all. Sarah once had the gall to compare the r-word with the n-word in terms of other people's insensitivity when she was trying to pimp her grandson's condition for her own agenda (yes I said grandson). So what's with the hypocrisy all of a sudden? She's a joke.

12:31 AM
laa

laa u r only 32 years old so we can cut u some slack but gtfooh mane! ur logic basically is that since ms palin acts tacky and stank that its okay for u to act that way too she very well may be a joke but that still doesnt give u ethical or moral license to make disparaging remarks about her kids c'mon now!
the only other blogger on this board who routinely insults people in a personal way and also their family members is a buceta breath moron
with ur wittiness u r above her in many ways but the anger with which u post brings u down to her level a lot of the time
if one of ur kids was developmentally challenged and u were a public figure dont even front that ude think its okay for people to call ur challenged kid a 'retard' or whatever else
eye thought u was betta than that but eye guess eye was wrong


lastly eye thought u aint respond to anon commenters, eye guess eye musta struck a nerve or sumthin eh?
*palabra*

Anonymous said...

umkay.. Kid, but u ought to ask what is the DEMs plan to get us out of this if u think theyre any betta then u r deluded!

coffee and cigarettes said...

Anon 1:40 AM

"A fearful American heart and mind will not, and cannot ignore those feelings. It remembers where those feelings came from.... It remembers 'who' destroyed the WTC and what motivated them to do it..."

All i'm seeing is fear, fear, fear, hate, hate, hate...instead of relying on your negative emotions, why dont you try relying on your positive emotions for once?

'Who' destroyed WTC? A bunch of individual psychopaths, who were muslim.
'Why' did they do it? Due to a pervesion of religious texts for one...but mostly fear, fear, fear, hate, hate, hate.

"Now if that is 'stupid' in YOUR mind, then deal with it, Mr. 'smarty' pants"

IT IS STUPID and you shouldn't pride yourself on being dumb and ignorant.

And LAC is right about your strawmen. You cannot compare muslims to the klan. Is your logic really that flawed?? All muslims are 911 extremists like all whites are klan members.

Banning a mosque from anywhere near ground zero, would be like banning a church where klan atrocities occured..lets not forget those klan memebers were all god-fearing christians.

It is DUMB, STUPID, SILLY AND HATEFUL rhetoric.

911 hijackers do not represent Islam, just as the klan did not represent christianity, just as nazi Germany did not represent Christianity, etc etc etc.

The proposed cultural centre is the polar opposite of the kind of Islam that Osama Bin Laden and his followers would want...so what exactly is the problem there??

And to the Anon that called me a robot...I have plenty of positive emotions. Somehow I dont pride myself on how much fear and hatred i can have. If you are implying that I am missing these emotions, than thank you for your kind words fool

kid said...

Anonymous said...
umkay.. Kid, but u ought to ask what is the DEMs plan to get us out of this if u think theyre any betta then u r deluded!

2:09 AM
___________________________________
Tax the people that Fox calls poor, those making $250,000.00 a year. Start a WPA like jobs program. Those are good for a start.

This whole Mosque thing is about the rich, that what all this is about. they are using xenaphobia to get all their racist brothers and sisters to go vote. I think that a lot of Muslims, Blacks, Mexicians, Gays, and Feminist are going to put more Democrats in office this fall.

Anonymous said...

Tax the people that Fox calls poor, those making $250,000.00 a year. Start a WPA like jobs program. Those are good for a start.kid

they r already getting taxed a recent tax policy study showed that people that make the most also pay the most taxes dollar for dollar than anyone else as to a wpa like jobs program eye dont think that will work because that is an antiquated last century solution that produced arguable results we need a new paradigm for this century otherwise well soon be a third world country...

field negro said...

"the DAR are honorable people."

Anon. you lost me at hello.

Jody, that was awesome!

"Yeah, 70% of Americans have lost their damn minds. And of course, people who think 'rationally' like you are sane because you don't get caught up in feelings. Tell me this. Are you human or just a robot who can't understand why MOST Americans feel the way they do about that Mosque being at ground zero?"

Personally, I am glad to be with the 30% folks on this one. I must be a robot.

Anon 12:02 a.m. and Val, I am feeling you both on this one. (The President of Anon Inc. should be proud of Anon 12:02 am.)

"And LAC is right about your strawmen. You cannot compare muslims to the klan. Is your logic really that flawed?? All muslims are 911 extremists like all whites are klan members."

c&c, you know what's really tough about all of this? Trying to use logic with irrational thinking people. *shaking head*

hennasplace said...

It's a cultural center and people from any faith can visit the place. You can not blame all Muslims for what happened on September 11. However, this also displays our inability or unwillingness to heal. The people who are responsibility for having the cultural center at the old Burlington Coat Factory site that is about two or three blocks away from the WTC. Legally, no one prevent the center from coming there due to the First Amendment. I understand why people are angry, but the anger is focused in the wrong direction.

Also, if everyone is so offended by the Islamic cultural center, then you have to be offended that there is a Mosque in the Pentagon that was built in 2007 and Bush did not have a problem with it.

Frank Drackman said...

So you'd be cool with a..........

"Jimmy Earl Ray's Real Memphis Pit BBQ & Rifle Range" 500 ft from the Lorraine Motel in Memphis???

"Big Bull Connor's Plumbing & Pool Supply" 500 ft from the Martin Lucifer King Gravesite in Atlanta???

Last time I vistited Arlington, I pissed on Medgar Ever's grave.
OK, I didn't really, cause he's an American Hero, and I'd already pissed on Ted Kennedy's.

Hey! how bout a "Baruch Goldstein Kosher Deli" 500 ft from the Ka'aba???

I know, "Baruch Who???" Google that shit, sort of an Israeli Omar Thornton.

Frank "Allah buggers Goats" Drackman

BrookLyn said...

What pisses me off most is to Sarah Palin, Beck and the rest NYC isnt the real America, we're a bunch of elitists. Yet when it suits them they co-opt what happened to me on my way to work that Tuesday morning. I wish in all the rhetoric about this someone besides Jon Stewart would point that out.

Jolly Roger said...

Chimpy danced on the graves of every one of his countless thousands of victims, and the Rushpubliscum Party has been remade in the monkey's image. No surprises here.

BrookLyn said...

Most Americans being against this means nothing. Most Americans have a 6th grade reading level. Most Americans don't have passports and are ignorant of the world around them. Most Americans would oppress anybody as long as their freedoms weren't infringed upon.

uptownsteve said...

Damn and I thought it was just us po ignint black males with the educational problems.

Anonymous said...

LAC:"Like Coffee and Cigs, me, Field and other folks on this board -- progressive actually use our brains and think critically, instead of letting our hatred and fears drive us to do stupid things."

You are a great example of liberal condescension. Anyone who hasn't been properly indoctrinated into "progressivism" by beiing spoon fed a distorted history is "stupid".

There is hope for you LAC, but only if you start seeeking out truth

Anonymous said...

c&c: "All i'm seeing is fear, fear, fear, hate, hate, hate..."

Fear and hate (and anger) are appropriate responses to Islam.

The reason those on the hard Left work so hard as apologists for Islam is that they share the same common enemy: America.

There is nothing in Islam that lines up with any part of "progessive" thought other than its opposition to Western culture. Nothing.

Most muslims are not terrorists, but most muslims have sympathy for terrorist goals and share the same common vision for worldwide submission to Islam.

In terms of oppression, murder and violence there is no equivalency with any other world religion. Anyone who tries to make this case is a fool or a liar.

uptownsteve said...

"In terms of oppression, murder and violence there is no equivalency with any other world religion"

You're either incredibly stupid or an inveterate liar yourself.

Just what do you call the Inquisition, The Salem Witch Hunts, The colonization of the Western Hemisphere, the rape and enslavement of the African continent?

Wasn't all that in the name of Jesus and spreading Christianity?

Try to say it wasn't.

I dare you.

While you're at it, riddle me this.

Prior to 9/11 who committed the major acts of terrorism on US Soil?

Oklahoma City, 96 Atlanta Olympic, attacks on abortion clinics and murders of doctors who perform abortions.

Coffee and cigarettes said...

Anon 9:38..let me guess you got that straight from the mouths of intellectuals like sarah palin and glen beck? there is no point in arguing with you since you're clearly too caught up in your own ignorance. to say something like most muslims share terrorist goals and a vision to see worldwide submission of islam means you've clearly never met any real muslims. you're stigmatizing a group of people in a way that is suspiciously similar to how nazis stigmatized jews. guess what? i have many muslim friends, i have some muslim family members, i admire many muslim political activists, writers, feminists..and none of what u say has any basis in reality.

nobody is apologizing for anything or defending violent actions. that's in your own imagination. in your warped world view, those who stand up for some of the principles that are supposed to be central to america..tolerance and religious freedom..are now somehow anti america. w t f. s m h

Anonymous said...

UTS: It wasn't.

Are you seriously stating that anyone today is threatened by the Inquisition or Chrisitan witch burninigs? That a Christian, or Buddhist, or Hindu can find justification in their scriptures for murdering unbelievers?

You are a liar who has fooled himself.

Well said...

"I'd never go for banning religion, and not simply because I am a religious person.

And despite popular belief, without religion, knowledge would be lost. It was the Muslim who preserved the works in Antiquity and developed algebra. And the Enlightenment was sparked by and an outgrowth of radical thinking within the Catholic Church."


I'm actually not serious about banning religion. It would be nice though if it would just wither away on its own, though that's not likely to happen.

What you describe about the Islamic works in antiquity is correct; however, that predates the widespread embrace of fundamentalism, which is the most likely reason for the decline in achievement in the Muslim world .

You could say the same thing about Christianity though. It was only due to the Enlightenment and the power of the scientific revolution that the awesome power of the church over Europe was finally broken.

What conservatives here and in the Muslim share is a desire to return religions-or in the case of many Muslim countries, to retain religions-power over the state. Nothing good ever come of that.

alicia banks said...

val:

ditto!!!

this entire mosque flap is totally irrelevant to me

all religions are equally sexist and useless to me

&

i refuse to pretend that muslims hate women any more than christians do just because muslims do so more openly/less hypocritically/clandestinely...

and i also absolutely refuse to blame muslims for the wholly american made hoax of 9/11!!!

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/what-would-jesus-do-jesus-would-love-this-book.html

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0137e0113410860e.html

http://www.rense.com/general50/wwse.htm
http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-09-12/news/17616221_1_airport-security-mayor-willie-brown-city-hall

a good anon said...

One of the blogs I frequent posted this today:

No other human beings or mammals on the planet earth KILL there own Brethren like African American --- descendents of Africa, American slaves --- Black Males! Anyone who knows of another group, species, populace etc… PLEASE advise me accordingly! It is time to motivate and educate our Black Males in new ways.

The author is a black man who does a lot for his community. Agree or disagree with the above statement.

A good anon.

sharon in nh said...

I sent the following letter to my local paper, in response to a letter published yesterday. I work for the public and may be looking for a new job in a few weeks, but I couldn't keep quiet.

To the Editor:

I like Mr. Absher's idea for a multicultural center in Lower Manhattan. I like it a lot. If any American city epitomizes multiculturalism, it is surely New York City. I definitely think it should be pursued, and I understand there are still quite a lot of empty and abandoned properties that would be suitable with some remodeling.

But Park51, former site of a Burlington Coat Factory, won't be the place for that. It's private property, and the current owners have other plans for it.

Mr. Absher's letter refers to "Americans" and "Islam" as if they were equivalent, but in fact "American" is a nationality and "Islam" is a religion that is represented in many nations, not just one or two. And since when do we Americans look to other countries for our standards on any question? Certainly not for standards of religious tolerance. What other country had founding fathers like George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, all staunch defenders of religious liberty?

Whether Mecca will ever be open to non-Muslims is irrelevant--Mecca is not merely a tourist destination, nor is New York City a holy place. If New York City is holy, to whom is it holy? New York City has citizens who represent every religion and culture in the world. There are many people who make pilgrimages to New York City, but to shop or to attend the theater or to conduct business, not to worship.

If America's religions had been the target on 9/11, I would suggest that St. Patrick's Cathedral on Fifth Avenue and the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C. would have been more obvious symbols. If the target had been America's culture, then striking the "Hollywood" sign in Los Angeles would have sent a clear message. But the targets were the World Trade Center and the Pentagon--symbols of America's financial and military power. There's a lot I don't know about Mecca, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't signify either of these to Muslims anywhere in the world.

I hope some organization does pursue the idea of a new multicultural center in New York City, but I'm not going to tell private property owners in another state what they should do with their property.

Sincerely,

Coffee and cigarettes said...

by the way anon im rereading 1984 and im suspiciously thinking of u. war is peace right?ignorance is strength?

Anonymous said...

C&C: I have several muslim friends, the better of whom have (quietly of course, because it can get you killed)renounced Islam. I have been to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, and Nigeria and have seen first hand what Islam does. I have obviously read much more on this subject than you have. You are the deluded one, and your wear your ignorance proudly.

I am all for tolerating religious beliefs, including the spiritual side of Islam. Only a fool would tolerate fascisitc Islamism. If you want to live in America, you need to renounce the idea of overthrowing the constitution and replacing it with a totalitarian legal code (e.g. Sharia)that is in direct contrivention of the U.S. Constitution. Today, this is a central tenet of Islam.

alicia banks said...

kid:

sarah palin is absolutely right as usual!!!

i despise "dr." laura...but she has said FAR less to abuse blacks than her male PEERS do each day

as much as laura openly despises gays/feminists/blacks...

her EVEN MORE RABIDLY racist wm peers STILL make her sound like a humanitarian saint
if don imus/rush/mike savage and all of their clones are still paid
then she should be too

sexism slew her!
just like helen thomas
laura only went off on blacks for 10 mins on 1 day and she was fired immediately
but
she has done far worse to dog gays for decades and she was beloved
FURTHER PROOF that gay is the new black indeed


http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/video/6a0123ddb39306860b0137a5c0dff9860d.html

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0137a4b89b49860c.html

http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/john_lennon/woman_is_the_nigger_of_the_world.html

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0123de1b1fbc860d.html

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/gender-abuse-trumps-politics---rethinking-sarah-palin.html

MBW said...

Let's see...my ancestors suffered over 400 years of slavery in this country. I guess I should protest any white person being my neighbor.

uptownsteve said...

ass-non

"UTS: It wasn't."

Then what was it about then?

ANSWER THE QUESTION FRAUD.

"Are you seriously stating that anyone today is threatened by the Inquisition or Chrisitan witch burninigs"

Perhaps you're missed this the first time but who committed the terrorist acts on American soil prior to 9/11?

"No other human beings or mammals on the planet earth KILL there own Brethren like African American --- descendents of Africa, American slaves --- Black Males! Anyone who knows of another group, species, populace etc… PLEASE advise me accordingly! It is time to motivate and educate our Black Males in new ways."

This is easy.

Russians, Venezualans, American white folks for that matter.

Most homicide is committed by people who know each other and are of the same race.

But you already knew that didn't you Buckwheat?

false1 said...

The biggest terrorists in the world are those damn white Christians. They invented terrorism and their book is filled with so much violence it makes Saw5 look like a Disney film.

The earliest group to terrorize Americans was the Klan. And they burned their their religious symbols on peoples lawns just to let them know who they were dealing with.

"Praise the lord and pass the ammunition" Americans say as they march from the "Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli" Raping, murdering and enslaving all they come into contact with. Killing civilians is only an atrocity if they're white American civilians.

Why are Japanese women and children fair game for an A-bomb but American women and children not fair game suicide attack? After all Americans elect their war mongering leaders, the Japanese were ruled by a non-elected emperor.

Americans like to tut, tut and wring their hands over their "past" atrocities, slavery, genocide, land grabs, and coup d'etats in foreign lands. Oh gee, we didn't know any better, the CIA went rogue, we're not racists any more.

Unfortunately you've run up on an enemy that's willing to bring the fight home and you're scared shitless of your own reflection. Right or wrong, you cant pacify these folks with you're missionaries. You can't send Rex Humbard, the Pope or Jim Jones over there to shut them up.

You're only real hope is to stop fucking with people but that solution is "off the table".

alicia banks said...

c&c:

ditto!!!

newspeak is en vogue!

even more deeply than orwell predicted!

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/newspeak-in-norway-obama-declares-war-is-peace.html

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b01347f0e380e860b.html

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0137a5ba88ec860d.html

uptownsteve said...

false1

ON POINT.

alicia banks said...

mostly rabid:

it is not my fault that the mere glaring truths about your genetic and severe mental retardation offend you...

just the facts you demo with each post!

alicia banks said...

laa:

did u catch that old fool mostly rabid expose her own lies about her alleged "youth" at 2:08 AM?

her IQ is too low to lie!

maria said...

WTF is sarah palin right about?

uptownsteve said...

BTW Field, good pick for HNOD.

This Juliette Ochieng is an absolutely shameless Aunt Jemima who I believe would let a white racist slap the shit of her in public if she thought it would get a rise out of black people.

Sad.

no_slappz said...

To muslims, building a mosque by Ground Zero is the same as Neil Armstong planting the American flag on the Moon is to Americans.

Islam is a religion. It is also a form of government, which means it has a military wing.

As a religion AND government it espouses and practices beliefs that are wholly anti-American.

Islam the religion and government abhors FREE SPEECH, abhors FREEDOM of RELIGION, abhors DEMOCRACY, abhors PLURALITY, abhors EQUALITY and abhors CAPITALISM. It embraces TERRORISM and aims to create a global caliphate.

If the US government viewed islam as it is -- a religion/governemt/military -- the US government would treat it as it treats some of its factions -- al-Qaeda and the taliban. A mosque is an islamic beachhead, the Trojan Horse of this vile repressive belief system.

Anonymous said...

Cigs, "All i'm seeing is fear, fear, fear, hate, hate, hate...instead of relying on your negative emotions, why dont you try relying on your positive emotions for once?"

I said nothing about hate, you did. I don't hate human beings, but I do have fear. Humans cannot ignore their negative feelings nor positive feelings. You must be on a different planet because human beings don't operate that way. Any moron living on planet earth can see that. Obviously, you are from another planet.

"And LAC is right about your strawmen. You cannot compare muslims to the klan. Is your logic really that flawed?? All muslims are 911 extremists like all whites are klan members.

Banning a mosque from anywhere near ground zero, would be like banning a church where klan atrocities occured..lets not forget those klan memebers were all god-fearing christians."

You tell me not to compare muslims to the klan and you then you do it? Not only are you an imbecile, but you are an arrogant ignorant imbecile who can't follow what he is thinking and saying. You must be one of the brothas who didn't see the value of school and dropped out.

"And to the Anon that called me a robot...I have plenty of positive emotions. Somehow I dont pride myself on how much fear and hatred i can have. If you are implying that I am missing these emotions, than thank you for your kind words fool"

Humans have fear, and you claim not to have fear? Mr. Cigs, that alone makes you NOT human. If all you have is 'positive' feelings, then you are either a 'space cadet' or you are a 'robot', but you are definitely NOT human.

Call me a fool if you like, I don't mind... I've always suspected that I was born a fool, anyway. Considering that I incarnated into a race that continually gets suckered again and again into sacrificing themselves and their own safety for others- who don't give a shit about them, then being a 'fool' IS a given. And if you and LAC are part of the black race, I KNOW I am a fool.

FYI, because of ignorance, all humans are fools to some extent. But some are 'wise' fools who recognize that truth. Then there are 'unwise' foola who are totally disconnected from themselves and the human race...like you.

Maybe when you grow up, you will realize this great truth?

Nevertheless, keep drinking that coffee and smoking those cigs, Cigs. It'll keep you healthy, rational, and smart- like Christopher Hitchens. And he is considered a rational practical intellectual by 'unwise' fools like you..LOL

PS. you really should stick to debating people on your own level. You'll do better and 'feel' better about yourself.

no_slappz said...

Once the elder McIlvaine starts talking about the mosque controversy, sadness gives way to anger. How can people shred the Constitution to justify their biases?

How can people shred the Constitution to justify their biases?

Ask muslims. That's their plan. Shred the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Or has the non-muslim world learned nothing about the goals of islam over its 1,400-year history?

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve said...
"false1

ON POINT."

People like you are doomed.

uptownsteve said...

"Islam is a religion. It is also a form of government, which means it has a military wing."

One could make the same case with Israel.

Anonymous said...

UTS: The only reason you defend Islam is because it is at war with White America (it' not your war). So stop with all the bullshit and admit it. You do not see yourself as an American, but as an enemy of America, therefore your natural sympathies are with America's enemies.

uptownsteve said...

BTW the air smells a little cleaner today.

One of America's most strident media racists, James J. Kilpatrick, died yesterday.

As editor of the Richmond Times, syndicated columnist and 60 minutes pundit during the 60s and 70s, Kilpatrick was a strident voice against Civil Rights and inclusion.

On the 100th anniversary of the Emancipation Proclomation, Kilpatrick railed "As for the Negro claiming the right to inclusion, why, he had sat out the whole industrial revolution. “He is still carrying the hod… still digging the ditch,” because that’s all he had bestirred himself to do. “The hell he is equal,”

Also in 1963 Kilpatrick exclaimed. “He has no right … to favored treatment in employment, promotion, or anything else.” White Americans should rise in “resentment,” he argued, against “those who demand in the name of race what they have not earned in the way of worth.”

He complained that blacks were being “petted and pampered, cuddled and coddled” by “reverse racism,” an interesting line of thinking since simple equal opportunity, much less affirmative action, had not yet been accepted as public policy.

I hope the fuckin worms eat him.

uptownsteve said...

"UTS: The only reason you defend Islam is because it is at war with White America (it' not your war). So stop with all the bullshit and admit it. You do not see yourself as an American, but as an enemy of America, therefore your natural sympathies are with America's enemies."

Where did I defend Islam?

My point is that no religion is superior to another and Christians, given their track record of murder and oppression are in no moral position to condemn Islamists.

BTW Idiot, if Islam is at war with America, then it would at war with all Americans.

Why would you assert that Islam is at war with WHITE America given that much of the Islamic is itself Caucasion?

Anonymous said...

BD, "And, to point out the irony, this growing opposition totally discounts another fact: A building about four blocks from Ground Zero is already home to a Mosque that has resided in that location for years, even before the construction of the now destroyed World Trade Center."

No, it has not been discounted or ignored. Why would you say that? And what does it have to do with the mosque to be built at ground zero? maybe if I put this in all caps you might understand:

THE PROPOSAL TO BUILD THE NEW MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO IS PROBLEMATIC: IT IS INAPPROPRIATE. IT FEELS LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE...AMERICANS DON'T LIKE BEING SLAPPED IN THE FACE...FOR THIS REASON, IT BOTHERS THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

THE OLD MOSQUE THAT IS BLOCKS AWAY DOES NOT BOTHER ANYONE..NOW, DO YOU GET IT?

Anonymous said...

Let's see...my ancestors suffered over 400 years of slavery in this country. I guess I should protest any white person being my neighbor.


That's right, you should...

Jody said...

First, what is being proposed IS NOT A MOSQUE! It is a community center, with a basketball court and all, not just Muslims will be welcomed to go there. They are planning a prayer room on one of the upper floors, but, to be clear, IT IS NOT A MOSQUE BEING PROPOSED!!!!

Second, IT IS NOT AT GROUND ZERO! It is a couple of blocks away and if anyone has ever been to NYC, you would know that even one block can be "another world" from the block before it, or around the corner. The area where this block resides in not even within friggin view of ground zero.

Third, and this is where the xenophobia is rampant, ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11!!! It was the actions of fanatics... yes, they were islamic fanatics... but by anyone's logic that subscribes to the "well it was all muslims doing that in the name if islam, and so it can be associated with islam... I say to you, then I expect to see YOU protesting the christian churches that are across from the Murrow Building in Oklahoma City, as those responsible for that were self-described members of the Army of Christ. The same said army that has blown up other buildings. By your logic, that means churches should be kept away from federal buildings because they might insult family members that died.

Fourth, there were Muslims who worked in the towers that died on 9/11...are their lives less relevant?

Finally, again, IT IS NOT A MOSQUE, IT IS NOT PROPOSED FOR GROUND ZERO, ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11!!!!!

Now, get your panties unbunched and use your friggin brains!

Anonymous said...

"Why would you assert that Islam is at war with WHITE America given that much of the Islamic is itself Caucasion?"

Your view, not mine.

Anonymous said...

Jody said..."ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11!!!!!"

You are a complete idiot.

Anonymous said...

UTS, "He complained that blacks were being “petted and pampered, cuddled and coddled” by “reverse racism,” an interesting line of thinking since simple equal opportunity, much less affirmative action, had not yet been accepted as public policy.

I hope the fuckin worms eat him."

Dear Coffee & Cigarettes, now this is a fine example of hatred WITHOUT fear. The death of this man comes as a 'relief' to those who feared him but did not hate him. But clearly UTS does not 'fear' this white man, he literally hates him even in death.

Now do you understand the difference? Americans can fear Muslims but not necessarily hate them.

uptownsteve said...

Ass-non

Go outside and get some air.

You're making a complete fool out of yourself.

Even more than usual.

Anonymous said...

Jody, "Third, and this is where the xenophobia is rampant, ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11!!! It was the actions of fanatics... yes, they were islamic fanatics... but by anyone's logic that subscribes to the "well it was all muslims doing that in the name if islam, and so it can be associated with islam... I say to you, then I expect to see YOU protesting the christian churches that are across from the Murrow Building in Oklahoma City, as those responsible for that were self-described members of the Army of Christ. The same said army that has blown up other buildings. By your logic, that means churches should be kept away from federal buildings because they might insult family members that died."

Poor analogy, Jody. There is no xenophobia in America against Christians. That is foolish. I would say that you have YOUR panties in a bunch.

Jody-"Second, IT IS NOT AT GROUND ZERO! It is a couple of blocks away and if anyone has ever been to NYC, you would know that even one block can be "another world" from the block before it, or around the corner. The area where this block resides in not even within friggin view of ground zero."

I lived in NYC. A couple of blocks away from ground zero is TOO CLOSE and it IS inappropriate. 70% of the American people don't want anything connected with Islam to be built there...any place but there...our feelings are still raw from 9/11 and you WILL NOT shove that MOSQUE with a 'community center' down our throats.

Anonymous said...

UTS, "Ass-non

Go outside and get some air.

You're making a complete fool out of yourself.

Even more than usual."

Dear Coffee & Cigs, now do you understand what I meant about the 'fool' who doesn't know that he is a 'fool'? UTS is a perfect example. He has always been an unaware fool coupled with stupidity...poor guy ate too much lead as a child while in the ghetto.

Jody said...

Anon 12:07... take a logic class. My anology is a logical argument of fallacy.

Second, like many other issues that deal with "rights"... tyranny of the "majority" has been the excuse of some of the most heinous behavior in human history, including US history. Including recent US history. The majority of whites in the south thought separate but 'equal' was fair and right... As I said earlier, you can sit on the bus, just not 'there.'

Finally, even IF one were to accept your argument that as a New Yorker, you should have final say...I will be joining other New Yorkers this Saturday to speak out in support... rally at the site of the proposed community center.... you do not speak for all new yorkers.... others disagree. You will see that on Saturday.

no_slappz said...

jody,

First, YOU are a moron.

You wrote:

First, what is being proposed IS NOT A MOSQUE!

Yes. It is. At this point, to overcome public opposition, the lying imam heading the mosque PROMISES it will include a basketball court and other features often found at community centers. But a project to be built with DONATED money -- $100 MILLION, in this case -- may have to change its plans if too little money rolls in. Meanwhile, if there is ONE thing the building will include, it is a mosque. Wake up.

Second, IT IS NOT AT GROUND ZERO! It is a couple of blocks away and if anyone has ever been to NYC, you would know that even one block can be "another world" from the block before it, or around the corner.

I live in NY City and used to shop at this site when it was the Burlington Coat Factory. I dropped by a couple of days ago. It IS TWO BLOCKS from Ground Zero.

Despite your moronic claims, the block is NOT another world compared with its neighboring blocks. This block is part of the relatively low-rise area that borders the high-rise area of lower Manhattan and the World Trade Center.

The area where this block resides in not even within friggin view of ground zero.

More stupidity. When the Twin Towers were standing, you could look up from the sidewalk outside the Burlington Coat Factory and see them. But it is true that from the same sidewalk position, it is impossible to see a hole in the ground two blocks away. However, now that the new towers are rising from Ground Zero, they will once again be visible from the sidewalk outside contested site.

Meanwhile, on 9/11 a piece of one of the hijacked planes smashed into the Burlington Coat Factory.

Third, and this is where the xenophobia is rampant, ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11!!!


Yes. Islam is responsible. Now you're showing your ignorance of islam. There is no legitimate islam versus an illegitimate islam. There is no central authority or agreed-upon form of this bizarre and dangerous religion/government/military.

In short, al-Qaeda, the taliban, hamas, hezbollah, the shiites, the sunnis and the sufis are all legitimate believers of the same idiocy.

It was the actions of fanatics... yes, they were islamic fanatics... but by anyone's logic that subscribes to the "well it was all muslims doing that in the name if islam, and so it can be associated with islam...

Islam forbids freedom of religion, forbids freedom of speech, enslaves women, forbids equality, and forbids plurality.

It declares that the Koran is the infallible word of their crazy god, which means that mere humans have no right to challenge it.

I say to you, then I expect to see YOU protesting the christian churches that are across from the Murrow Building in Oklahoma City, as those responsible for that were self-described members of the Army of Christ.

False. Timothy McVeigh had NO connections to any religious groups.

By your logic, that means churches should be kept away from federal buildings because they might insult family members that died.

There was NO connection between Christianity or Christian militants and the OK City bombing.

Fourth, there were Muslims who worked in the towers that died on 9/11...are their lives less relevant?

Inasmuch as muslims gleefully slaughter each other every day around the globe, we can say that the loss of muslim lives on 9/11 is irrelevant. Sunnis and shiites slaughtering each other makes for a daily circus of blood.

Finally, again, IT IS NOT A MOSQUE, IT IS NOT PROPOSED FOR GROUND ZERO, ISLAM IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11

Yes. It's a mosque -- and maybe more. Yes, the mosque is too close to Ground Zero. And Yes, islam is the chief culprit behind the 9/11 muslim terrorist attack.

no_slappz said...

jody,

Your form of argumentation is nothing but a collection of non-sequiturs because your position is based on the notion that islam is ONLY a religion. And that as a religion it is no better or worse than Christianity.

However, here in today's world -- the real world -- islam is a religion/government/military and in the real world almost all of the world's 1.4 billion muslims live in one of those islamic states where islam is the official state religion, the government and the military.

There is no parallel in Christianity. Thus, your jabbering is a comparison of apples and oranges.

mellaneous said...

Whats up Field? Hey can a brother get a dap?

Field if I didn't know any better I would think that you were having fun just stirring the pot. Your last post on this issue was outstanding and I was glad that you posted a link to that speech on religious tolerance by New York mayor Bloomberg.

And thanks for the quotes from Mr McIlvaine I think it gives the whole thing a bit more perspective.

I'll wade in and say that I find it amazing that the same folks who are hard core supporters of the sanctity of private property are now suggesting that its okay to tell somebody what to do with their property.

I still have not heard any of the right wing folks try to reconcile their protests against the community center's location and the fact that the owner-- by the "usual" standards-- has a right to do with his property what he wants, as long as it doesn't violate zoning laws and the criminal code of conduct.

As an informed Christian I agree with those who have right and accurately pointed out the bloody history of Christendom and the contributions of Islam.

But chalk this one up to the effectiveness of US propaganda. Like Christianity there are lots of different interpretations and thus sects of Islam. But the media and other sources of propaganda have convinced people that the entire Muslim world wants to destroy the US while at this very moment US citizens are walking around Ramallah and other Arab and Muslim cities entirely unmolested.

And BTW the guy who proposed the community center has been working with the FBI and the US gov't doing good will work.

Field this is just another distraction from our real problems. One of which was articulated yesterday.

no_slappz said...

uptownsteve, I wrote:

"Islam is a religion. It is also a form of government, which means it has a military wing."

You responded:

One could make the same case with Israel.

ONE could make the statement. But ONE -- that's you -- would be wrong.

Israel is a democracy which guarantees Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech and almost every other freedom guaranteed by the US Constitution.

Muslims account for about 1.5 million of Israel's population of 7 million. Meanwhile, everyone in Israel has far, far more rights than anyone in the neighboring muslim nations.

It's very simple. Islam is bad. A bad religion and a worse government.

When it comes to the islamic military, they are about as bad as militaries get, proven by the fact that US military destroyed Saddam's military twice in no time at all.

Sadly and frighteningly, Obama has stood by, waiting patiently for Iran to fire up its nuclear reactor and get closer to having its own nuclear bomb.

Obama is close to achieving the greatest islamic goal of keeping the US from stopping Iran from getting the bomb. His work will earn him the title of honorary martyr.

alicia banks said...

rk/fn:

seen this?

castro was once a hobama fan just like cornel west

and even castro now sees that hobama is a hoax and that 9/11 was an inside job too!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100818/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_cuba_castro_bildenberg

Anonymous said...

Xenophobia; homophobia; "Islam" - ophobia; gynophobia; negrophobia, etc. are the manifest pillars of ignorance and bigotry.
Racism; sexism; heathenism; and other "...isms" are institutionalized customs and rituals enforced by the state and church. So, word to the wise, FN, be ever vigilant when "chasing racism". A-merry-kkkans have always been numb, dumb and desensitized whenever accused of "racism".
When 9/11 fetishists and New "Yawkers" realize that this proposed community center and mosque will generate revenue, hopefully, they will re-insert their heads you-know-where.
G' Flash

uptownsteve said...

It's a mosque because Slappy says it's a mosque dammit!

Only it isn't.

Islamic Community Center will be called "Park 51," no longer to be called "Cordoba House" for fear of triggering even more controversy.

This Community Center plans to house a culinary school, an auditorium, a swimming pool, a basketball court, and yes, space for prayer.

But it is not a mosque.

"There was NO connection between Christianity or Christian militants and the OK City bombing."

Oh yes it was, using your logic.

The terrorist who flew planes into the WTC were Islamic so Islam is responsible for the terror.

So it follows that since Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph were Christians, Christianity was responsible for their terrorism.

uptownsteve said...

"Israel is a democracy which guarantees Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech and almost every other freedom guaranteed by the US Constitution."

But denies full citizenship and rights to it's Arab citizens.

http://www.al-bushra.org/apartheid/Apartheid.htm

Anonymous said...

UTS: You sure works hard at bein' stupid.

Did McVeigh holler "Praise Jesus!" as he set off that bomb, like the hijackers (or the Fort Hood shhooter, or for that matter, any of the dozens of Islamic terrorists conducting attacks over the past 20 years) yelled Allah Akbar! as they plowed the planes into the WTC?

Are you really denying the religious impulse behind islamic terrorism?

no_slappz said...

uptownstevie, you wrote:

But denies full citizenship and rights to it's Arab citizens.

Sorry stevie, arab citizens of Israel they have the same rights as everyone else in the nation.

But, because they are muslims, they create their own misery and then, like blacks in the US, blame their problems on the local majority.

mellaneous said...

Field speaking of propaganda and misinformation I suspect that No Slapz has been assigned to this blog to do that very thing.

Notice he never cites facts or references to make his case, while coming across as if he is intelligent and informed, while almost always making at some point some kind of outlandish generalization -usually trying to prove what he clearly believes is the inherent inferiority of black people and any other non white or Christian peoples.

He is really really hard at work today and surprisingly has stooped to calling Jody stupid,who is clearly a long way from stupid.

Today his subject is Islam and he is wrong again.

--Look at what he said today:

"However, here in today's world -- the real world -- islam is a religion/government/military and in the real world almost all of the world's 1.4 billion muslims live in one of those islamic states where islam is the official state religion, the government and the military.

-- Islam a religion/government/military of course is a blatant lie but notice he doesn't provide any concrete examples. And of course if he could it is simply not true that all Muslims reside in countries in which there is an Islamic theocracy.

---Check out this one:

"As a religion AND government it espouses and practices beliefs that are wholly anti-American.
Islam the religion and government abhors FREE SPEECH, abhors FREEDOM of RELIGION, abhors DEMOCRACY, abhors PLURALITY, abhors EQUALITY and abhors CAPITALISM. It embraces TERRORISM and aims to create a global caliphate."

-- in this bit of propaganda he seeks to try to make the point that the US gov't really encourages free speech, plurality and even equality and that these ideas are profoundly American. Of course we know that the truth is, that in reality that these things only exist to the extent that citizens fight for them and are vigilant.

-- he also tries to make folks think that the Muslim countries don't have free market economies when they all indeed are very cozy with capitalism esp Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain and even Kuwait.

Anonymous said...

Mellaneous: You need to do some research. Everything no slappz said was true. You can of course find exceptions to every generalization, but it is you that have swallowed a propagandized vision of Islam.

mellaneous said...

AB - Fidel was never a fan of Obama he knows who Obama represents just like you do. He was expressing hope that he would have a leavening affect on US imperialism that's all.

Make no mistake the Cubans are absolutely clear about what the capitalists/imperialists are about which is why the US government hates them so much.

The poor Cubans are a living example that the people can live in a planned economy and while perfection can indeed not be achieved on this earth with us imperfect human beings, a government can provide health care, education, and the basic needs and necessities of its citizens, if it indeed chooses to.!

And it may not be able to end bigotry, and prejudice, but it can advocate for a society of openness and plurality and mutual respect as the Cubans have done.

And yes they have stumbled at many points but unlike the imperialists --who have no intention on changing their modus operandi, which dictates that they make money to detriment of the lives and livelihood of human beings and even the environment-- the Cubans have at least attempted to ammend their mistakes and have indeed ammended mistakes that they have made.

uptownsteve said...

No slappz

"Sorry stevie, arab citizens of Israel they have the same rights as everyone else in the nation."

I know how much facts offend you Slappy, but no they don't.

Palestinians are denied freedom of movement.

To own land.

Access to water.

Passports.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Cuba is great. Sure they've executed tens of thousands of their own citizens, you will go to prison for critcizing the government, your "free" healthcare is terrible, and your only hope for a decent life is try to make it to Florida on a raft, but hey, nobody's perfect.

What a clown you are, Mellaneous.

mellaneous said...

Anon 1:25

We can go around and around all we want but at the end of the day you and I know that all Muslims and nor do the majority of Muslims want to destroy the US.

- We also know --at least the sane ones among us -- that many in the Muslim and Arab world have a legitimate bone to pick with the US considering that they have invaded Iraq without cause and Afghanistan on a flimsy one that this government wouldn't have stood for.

-We also know that the US interfered with the inner workings of Iran reinstalling the Shah after Mosedeh had won an actual democratic election. US imperialism is as much to blame for the religious foolishness that holds sway in Iran as much as Islamic fundamentalism.

-I understand why you don't want to put an identifier on the bottom of your post, because it is your intention to sow discord and confusion among your fellow human beings and citizens.

-You are either misguided, a liar or you are intentionally trying to mislead folks either way, you have come to the wrong blog with that crap.

-You would be better off doing that on right wing blogs where lazy minded, naive, narrow and sometime hateful people are looking to believe the worst about folks who don't look like them, or believe like them.

-Can't you read? This blog is titled Field Negro not Faux Negro. The folks in the fields have a tendency to dig for the truth and feed their own brains rather than wait on hand outs and hand me downs from the house.

Mack Lyons said...

It's interesting to see people railing against this mosque being built when the WTC site is still a hole in the ground after 9 years. I thought that by now, the WTC site would have been rebuilt -- that would have been the best "TAKE THAT" against Islamic extremism.

"No other human beings or mammals on the planet earth KILL there own Brethren like African American --- descendents of Africa, American slaves --- Black Males!"

No, no, Mack. Not today. You promised yourself you wouldn't fight against abject stupidity today. Just walk away. Walk away......

Anonymous said...

Build a mosque next to Ground Zero and the progressive left will cheer. Erect a cross in honor of a dead cop, and the left will sue.

Fourteen crosses that stand along a Utah state highway as a memorial to highway patrol troopers who’ve lost their lives in the line of duty have been ruled a violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Wednesday that the 12-foot high white crosses were an endorsement of religion, implying a state preference for Christianity.

You have to be some kind of lawyer-genius to see how putting up a cross is an establishment of state religion; since the sight of a cross compels no one to believe anything. But this isn’t really about establishing a state religion, is it? It’s about atheists who can’t stand ANY public acknowledgment of faith.

Common sense would say, let the trooper’s family decide if they want a cross. And if the sight of a cross offends you, shut up and don’t be a pussy about it.

Anonymous said...

Mell : "-You would be better off doing that on right wing blogs where lazy minded, naive, narrow and sometime hateful people are looking to believe the worst about folks who don't look like them, or believe like them."

talk about the black calling kettle pot!

mellaneous said...

Anon 1:37 can you provide proof that the Cubans killed tens of thousands. And are you really sitting in the heart of the country that dropped two atomic bombs and is presently bombing and killing folks in count them 3 countries and currently runs a concentration camp in Guantanamo and you have the nerve to talk about some other country killing folks an assertion that's not even true.

If you knew anything which you obviously don't you would know that the Cubans that leave are not leaving because of oppression but because they believe they can live larger in the US own a big house and drive a fancy car and make lots of money. Yes they believe that crap until they get here and find out that all the dreams they were sold were not true.

I have on my gloves for the next hour. Bring it on all you lovers of lies and right wing propaganda and haters of all that don't think look, live or believe like you do.

mellaneous said...

Anon 1:48 you missed my point, which you are obviously wont to do.

While you talk about the pot calling the kettle black, Field does not moderate the threads and even lets hateful folks like yourself say the most vile and backward things they want.

Just like you do all the time.

You are so twisted you even managed to twist the meaning of an expression!

uptownsteve said...

"No, no, Mack. Not today. You promised yourself you wouldn't fight against abject stupidity today. Just walk away. Walk away......"

ROTFLMBAO!!!!!

It's incredible, isn't it?

Hathor said...

anon 1:46,
Whom ever, should buy a piece of property next to the highway and put the crosses there, then there wouldn't be a controversy. That highway belongs to the taxpayers and the state government and certainly not all taxpayers are Christian, they may be Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist Hindu, atheist, agnostics or other religions, even in the state of Utah.

I bet you don't even know if all of the police were Christians.

That is because it is none of your business!

uptownsteve said...

ass-non

"Did McVeigh holler "Praise Jesus!" as he set off that bomb, like the hijackers (or the Fort Hood shhooter, or for that matter, any of the dozens of Islamic terrorists conducting attacks over the past 20 years) yelled Allah Akbar! as they plowed the planes into the WTC?"

Don't know.

There was no recording device in the U-Haul.

And even if the terrorists were motivated by their perversion of Islam, that does not deligitimize the religion itself.

Are you going to tell me there was no religious motivation behind the abortion clinic bombings and abortion doctor murders?

How about Jim Jones and the Guyana Massacre?

Christianity responsible for that?

mellaneous said...

Mack Lyons- I feel you I went through that same thought process on that disturbed brothers post, I too chose to walk away.

I figured that anyone who chose to believe such nonsense probably couldn't be convinced that violence and the history of violence has no color. And that throughout history folks of all colors and so-called races have done some pretty awful things to one another and to others.

I didn't want to tell him that it has been well documented by Frantz Fanon and others that the oppressed turn on themselves, because as Paulo Friere put it they see the oppressor in themselves.

I didn't want to take my precious time and suggest for reference he check out the violence among the Irish during the height of British occupation and oppression, or the Armenians when oppressed by the Turks, the Algerians struggled when oppressed by the French, and beogeosie Jews did not do all that they could to aide their working class and poorer brethren during the Nazi peril, you can look it up, hell the Jewish owners of the NY Times refused to print more than a few lines which they placed in obscure sections of their paper the atrocities being committed by the Germans against their own people.

And I didn't want to stop and ask him if he heard of Bosnia or Slovenia or the other former Czech states that have the same blood line and can't be told apart but were at one anothers throats because of supposed religous differences. He probably is not familiar with that struggle.

And I didn't want to remind him that the capitalists when they are squeezing the last dollars out of folk or the last bit of labor out of folks don't stop to see if the folks they are dogging are white like them.

I couldn't help my self but I hope that helps that poor self deluded and self hating brother who put that foolishness out there for the consumption of the nuts who come to this site seeking affirmation of their silly suppositions about black humanity.

Anonymous said...

Mell: "You are so twisted you even managed to twist the meaning of an expression!"

And you are so dumb you didn't get it.

mellaneous said...

Steve -- Good points about Isreal. I am glad you noticed hte craziness of that brothers post as well.

Steve I think you and Ab are going to have to call a truce hell we know where you are coming from by now you want to make sure middle class black folks get their props. I get it.

So in the meantime though lets continue to take on the real haters and misinformers.

You feel me

mellaneous said...

Anon I got it I disagreed with your point

Anonymous said...

Melaneous:

"I have on my gloves for the next hour. Bring it on all you lovers of lies and right wing propaganda and haters of all that don't think look, live or believe like you do."

how do you type wearing those gloves? And how can you see wearing those blinders?

The mass executions perpetrated by Fidel Castro and his chief executioner, Che Guevera, are too well documented for you to profess ignorance as an excuse. Fools like you do not deserve the freedom and prosperity you enjoy as an American.

uptownsteve said...

mellaneous

My very simple point is that there is no ONE WAY with black people.

There are a plethora of attitudes, realities, experiences amongst black people and I think many of US are having a hard time accepting that.

If you told my son and his friends that there is a "crisis" among black males, they'll look at you and laugh.

These kids think they are the lords of the earth. Masters of all they survey.

And you know what, THAT'S WHAT I WANT HIM TO THINK.

To many of us have internalized feelings of inferiority and being less than.

It's time to cast off those chains

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve said...
"If you told my son and his friends that there is a "crisis" among black males, they'll look at you and laugh.

These kids think they are the lords of the earth. Masters of all they survey.

And you know what, THAT'S WHAT I WANT HIM TO THINK."


So......what's the fucking problem then?

Anonymous said...

The Right is up to their games again. The Republicans blocked a bill that would give aid to the 9-11 responders, and they come up with this controversy to hide what they did. Guess what everyone's talking about?

Anonymous said...

"Guess what everyone's talking about?"

Michelle Obama’s ass.

mellaneous said...

Anon let me get this straight we disagree about the veracity of the claims against Fidel and Che who indeed did clean house after the revolution and during the revolution, and because of that you want to deny my rights to citizenship.

my, my fellow American

Anonymous said...

"you want to deny my rights to citizenship."

Of course not, but anyone who cannot see the difference between a free and prosperous society and a despotic and miserable one should trade places with someone in Cuba.

mellaneous said...

Steve I understand what you are saying and of course you want your sons to think the world is their oyster. That is as it should be.

I don't disagree with that.

I think you get in trouble when you gloss over the very real struggles that many not so middle class black folks engage in daily and often times it is the result of a rigged system. This can't be denied while we talk about how far we have come and what we have achieved.

Part of our struggle is that, many of our middle class brethren have chosen the individualist route when our reality dictates that we are never too far from the group.

So it makes sense to reach out and reach back to do what we can to help our lesser brothers. WE have done that historically-- think free blacks relationship to their enslaved brethren, they didn't ignore the plight of their enslaved brethren.

Anonymous said...

Mell: "Part of our struggle is that, many of our middle class brethren have chosen the individualist route when our reality dictates that we are never too far from the group."

tranlsation: So no matter how good things get for the majority of blacks, as long as there is one black person in poverty, we must never stop indicting America over past injustices and using that person's misery as a prop for our own self-aggrandizing moral indignation.

Right Mell?

LACoincidental said...

Anonymous said...

Yes, Cuba is great. Sure they've executed tens of thousands of their own citizens, you will go to prison for critcizing the government, your "free" healthcare is terrible, and your only hope for a decent life is try to make it to Florida on a raft, but hey, nobody's perfect.

What a clown you are, Mellaneous.


Actually, Anon, like most right wing stooges you need to learn a thing or two about Universal health care and Cuba. On average, Cubans live longer than many folks in our poorest ghettos. And Canadians (as well as most of Western Europe) live about 3-5 years longer than we do. Why? A major reason is that they don't have to sell their firstborn just to see a doctor. Also, Cuban doctors are some of the best trained primary care physicians in the world. Most of Latin America and Africa now send their young doctors to Cuba for training.

Also, the Cubans are a lot better at disaster planning than we are. They figured out how to evacuate people in Hurricanes, which we can't say for the US government and Katrina.

And on top of that, almost everyone in Cuba can read and write. Yes, this piss poor island nation has a 96% literacy rate. While we in the states have to contend with 53% of Black men dropping out of High School. Compared to Americans, Cubans are generally well read and educated.

No, I'm some far left weirdo who thinks that Cuba is Paradise. You're right that dissidents aren't tolerated by the Castro Regime and blogs like this would not exist in Havanna. At social micromanaging of economies typical don't work.

However, to claim we can't learn a thing or two from our neighbors to the South is the height imperialist ignorance and arrogance.

Anonymous said...

UTS wiht that line of reasoning I could say we are not having a financial crisis in America. When people say that I can laugh cause I am still making plenty of $$.

Do you see how that is flawed?

uptownsteve said...

mellaneous

"I think you get in trouble when you gloss over the very real struggles that many not so middle class black folks engage in daily and often times it is the result of a rigged system. This can't be denied while we talk about how far we have come and what we have achieved."

I respectfully disagree.

Mellaneous, I'M FROM THE HOOD.

I can't possibly gloss over the very real experiences of inner city life because I've lived it.

I just refuse to accept that dysfunction, pathology and irresponsibility are "black" characteristics as so many posters here seem to suggest.

Do you believe that MOST black people are undereducated and inarticulate?

Do you believe that, as FP constantly rants, that MOST black men are violent and irresponsible?

I totally reject that nonsense.

No, the ghetto and criminals are a minority of the black community and in no way represent what we as a people are about.

uptownsteve said...

Anonymous

"UTS wiht that line of reasoning I could say we are not having a financial crisis in America. When people say that I can laugh cause I am still making plenty of $$.

Do you see how that is flawed?"

That would be flawed.

Your argument seems to be that most black folks are fucked up and that responsbile, functioning black people are "outliers".

That, my friend, is total bull$hit.

mellaneous said...

Anon obviously you have bought into the romaniticized version of life as it is, some would say you have drank the kool aide.

But let me say to be fair to you because I recently befriended some very well off white folks who have lived in the suburbs all their lives and have gone to the best schools in this country, yet they have no idea that a good majority of their fellow citizens are working class stiffs and lots of them are working and struggling and lots of others either can't make enough money find enough work or find work at all and it's not because they aren't trying. They also found it hard to believe that racism existed until a freind who they love and trust shared a harrowing experience.

My point is that everyone does not experience this counry as free as you do, there are all kinds of prejudices being enforced by rules that institute those prejudices.

And maybe you don't know that Cuba is a third world country and is doing better than just about any other third world country. Maybe you aren't aware that in spite of this they are feeding their population, they may not have medical care on the level of a first world country, but people are not dying of treatable disease as they are in most third world countries. And health care is available.

Maybe you didn't know that the Cubans actually have medical teams in several third world countries and these countries have expressed gratitude for the help.

Ask the Haitians about the Cubans medical capacity. CNN and others won't tell you this because in spite of their claims of objectivity some things they simply refuse to report( that makes sense, since they are big business themselves and a supporter of all things capitalist)

Because the US is unofficially opposed to the idea that society doesn't have to be organized around the profit motive, it chooses to isolate Cuband and not to trade with Cuba and to keep Cuba from trading normally by blockading it.

The Cubans have found a way to educate all of their citizens. And no one goes hungry nor sleeps outside in Cuba.

What's interesting about these facts is that even the enemies of Cuba don't dispute these facts. They just go yeah but....

So I am not misinformed my freind in fact, just the opposite. But I am willing to grant that you may not have all the facts at your disposal before you go spouting on about what you think the US and what you believe Cuba is.

Anonymous said...

mell, you have repeatedly spoken for Field as if you know what he thinks. Please don't do that. Field is perfectly capable of speaking for himself. I am surprised that a minister like you can be so assuming and arrogant. Do you ever pray? Or is being a minister just a way of making a living like some of those mega-church ministers like 'Cleft yo Dollar?'

Anonymous said...

LAC:
"On average, Cubans live longer than many folks in our poorest ghettos."

And that is something to be proud of?

"And Canadians (as well as most of Western Europe) live about 3-5 years longer than we do. Why?"

Actually, it's because they don't have so many black people. Black people live higher risk lives, drop out of school more, are poorer, and shoot each other quite often.

"Also, the Cubans are a lot better at disaster planning than we are. They figured out how to evacuate people in Hurricanes, which we can't say for the US government and Katrina."

See above, in particular, they don't let black people run major cities.

"Compared to Americans, Cubans are generally well read and educated."

See above.

I'm not above learning from our neighbors, north or south, but outside of rum and middle infielders, there is little positive to learn from Cuba.

Anonymous said...

Jody, enjoy your march and rally in NYC! It's a waste of time, but enjoy anyway. The will of the American people(70%) will prevail!

uptownsteve said...

"So no matter how good things get for the majority of blacks, as long as there is one black person in poverty, we must never stop indicting America over past injustices and using that person's misery as a prop for our own self-aggrandizing moral indignation."

No, it's more like as long as there is one black criminal in the 'hood, no black American is law abiding and prospering.

BTW, could you tell me who are all these black folks using misery for self-aggrandizement and accusation?

If anything on this board there is a gaggle of racists and Toms who are on a mission to stigmatize every black American with the disease of dysfunction and the Willie Horton gene.

It's absurd.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Jody, enjoy your march and rally in NYC! It's a waste of time, but enjoy"

Hopefully, you won't get exposed to any real Islamic culture, like suicide bombers with nail vests! Don' forget to wear your kevlar!

mellaneous said...

Steve asked:

I just refuse to accept that dysfunction, pathology and irresponsibility are "black" characteristics as so many posters here seem to suggest.

Do you believe that MOST black people are undereducated and inarticulate?

Do you believe that, as FP constantly rants, that MOST black men are violent and irresponsible?"

Steve I feel you and no I don't think that black folks are predisposed to violence or irresponsibility.

Black folks are amazing when you look at history from the proper perspective. Think about it, we overcome so well and so many of us hurdle obstacles so well that it makes it appear that the hurdles weren't even there and also that they have gone away

This is what I was pointing out to you earlier, some real and rabid and persistent racists have invaded Fields blog and I think its important to refute them for the benefit of the onlookers who may have come to the site to learn something.

LACoincidental said...

Anon@3:06PM - that was most ignorant race-baiting crap I've read in a long time. First of all, Arabs and West Africans have large communities in Europe.

And my point is that our poorest ghettos, per capita, have more disposable income than the average Cuban. And they still are better off in life because the government takes care of its citizens instead of handing over money and power to corporations.

Rottnkid said...

Yeah I seen that AB..I'm done dogging Obama, not that I really have before, but I'm over criticizing the man. I was sitting on my cloud the other night ;D and I got to thinking..I would never want that dudes job. Period. No matter what he tries to accomnplish he gets fucked in the ass by members in his own party, Congress and the Senate. No matter what he does get accomplished, on the way there, he gets fucked in the ass by members in his own party, Congress and the Senate. The dude can't win for just even getting up in the morning and taking a shit! I'm done criticizing him. Congress and the Senate are the conduit to the Presidents ear. Whatever I say or write to my elected officials beats on deaf ears because I don't have enough cash for those fuckers to even listen..Hell, this trickle up shit ain't working either! If Cornell and Fidel have a problem with him, then they should stand in line with the rest of people who have a problem with him. And as far as the Mosque goes..it's like this. - if it's built with the full $100 milli then the question will be "where that kind of money come from?" and some MORE shit will come out of it and if it ISN'T built their could be more attempts to cause terror on our soil "just because" the Mosque wasn't built.

Anonymous said...

UTS: "BTW, could you tell me who are all these black folks using misery for self-aggrandizement and accusation?"

One obvious example is Mellaneous.

Anonymous said...

LACK: "And my point is that our poorest ghettos, per capita, have more disposable income than the average Cuban. And they still are better off in life because the government takes care of its citizens instead of handing over money and power to corporations."

And you want to be "taken care of" like that? I'll pass on the gulag, thanks.

But like most progressives, I'm guessing your medicine is not for yourself, but for those less fortunate to be so wise. Maybe those poor people in the ghettos shouldn't be allowed to dispose of all that income, and the government should keep them busy, like maybe in forced labor camps. Is that what you want?

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:06 ( the religous anon) I don't ever remember speaking for Field. I just gave my opinion and its just that my opinion on what I thought I observed what many of the people who have regularly posted on this blog are trying to do.

I'll apologize if I have misspoke but I always seemed to observe that the majority of folks responding were really interested in having open debate and conversation about the issues of the day, especially those pertaining to black folks.

But I have never presumed to speak for Field, I think you misread me. And no and that is laughable I don't make a living being a minister or being an activist. And I don't have anything in common with Creflo Dollar if you read my ramblings on this blog you would know that. I am the silly minister who believes God loves everybody and that everyone should be able to eat and have shelter and be treated with respect. I barely have a church home because most ministers believe these days that God only dwells in the four walls of their church and Lord knows he/she ain't got nothing to do with the community.

My friend you have no idea you really took that criticism to the wrong minister.

mellaneous said...

LAC preach

LAC said:

"And my point is that our poorest ghettos, per capita, have more disposable income than the average Cuban. And they still are better off in life because the government takes care of its citizens instead of handing over money and power to corporations."

mellanoeus said...

thats me at at 3:22 the religous anon got me excited with that accusation of theirs. lol

La♥audiobooks said...

"Cuban doctors are some of the best trained primary care physicians in the world. Most of Latin America and Africa now send their young doctors to Cuba for training."

Exactly.

And you know what, before the revolution there were more poor and hungry black Cubans who were servitude to the "white" Cubans.

Also, early on in the revolution there were lots of white Americans and celebs who supported Castro "for the cause". I suspect it was until they realized the status quo would eventually shift towards more blackish Cubans (taking from the rich Cubans and the white Cubans to spread out to the poor black Cubans, HELL NO). All of a sudden Castro became an evil SOB and the rest is history.

Good Castro or bad Castro, as a black person, I always try to at least remember that before I make judgment on the Castro regime. Just my two cents. No back to lurking.

anthony said...

on face value the mosque would be insensitive, but i guess the same could be said when colonizers go into countries AND name it after themselves... Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and Leopoldville (now Kinshasa, Zaire) to name just a few examples...

Also, the earlier comment at the beginning about there being a mosque at the pentagon is inaccurate...

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=2031079

mellaneous said...

One of the anons SAID (come on yall just right a handle at the bottom of your post so I don't get you confused)

"tranlsation: So no matter how good things get for the majority of blacks, as long as there is one black person in poverty, we must never stop indicting America over past injustices and using that person's misery as a prop for our own self-aggrandizing moral indignation."


Right Mell"

Wrong Anon
Just like you misspelled translation you are purposely trying to minimize the fact that racism does indeed exist and that it is institutionalized. You can pretend all you want you can minimize our genuine concerns until you are blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that equality of opportunity does not exist for everyone in this country and that includes white people as well many of whom suffer from classism.

mellaneous said...

LA Audio and LAC big UPS thanks for more truthtelling.

I see we are on the same page on Cuba. Because we disagree on some other things it should keep you from giving me my props.(lol) I don't have a problem give folks their due when they are right.

I have been trying to defend Cuba for the last two hours thanks for jumping in. I know that I am not the only one on this thread that knows the truth about Cuba

Anonymous said...

"it won't change the fact that equality of opportunity does not exist for everyone in this country and that includes white people as well many of whom suffer from classism."

Marxist drivel.

Anonymous said...

"I know that I am not the only one on this thread that knows the truth about Cuba"

Ignorance loves company, I guess.

mellaneous said...

LA Audio good point about blacks in Cuba. I used to always point out how you seldom see AFroCubans leaving Cuba and its because they know that things are much better for them since the revolution.

And they don't believe the fantasies about the US they know that black folks in the US face more racial barriers than they do in Cuba so they so no thanks, we will take our chances with the revolution.

Anonymous said...

mellaneous said...
"LA Audio good point about blacks in Cuba. I used to always point out how you seldom see AFroCubans leaving Cuba and its because they know that things are much better for them since the revolution."

Nope, it's because they're not very good at making rafts and can't swim.

mellaneous said...

Anon:"it won't change the fact that equality of opportunity does not exist for everyone in this country and that includes white people as well many of whom suffer from classism."

Marxist drivel."

anon you sound like the segregationist and the KKK who characterized black folks struggle for equal rights as a Marxist idea. And you sound like the architects of apartheid who said that their blacks were happy and it was the Marxist that taught them they weren't free.

The more you talk the more you reveal who and what you really are. You don't need a moniker, I already know what it is.

alicia banks said...

mell:

you missed TONS of enthralled endorsements, gleeful praises, and excited historical hope that castro initially bestowed upon obama...

just like millions of others hobama duped and bamboozled around the globe

ie

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/obama-castro.html


most of us got caught up in the historical imagery for a brief spell...and that spell has now ended for castro and millions who are now rudely awakened about the hoax that is hobama

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/link/6a0123ddb39306860b0137e00b8b64860e.html

Anonymous said...

"anon you sound like the segregationist and the KKK who characterized black folks struggle for equal rights as a Marxist idea. And you sound like the architects of apartheid who said that their blacks were happy and it was the Marxist that taught them they weren't free."

You're an idiot, Mell. You are the one who just said (in effect) that AfroCubans were too dumb to realize how much Cuba sucked.

LACoincidental said...

Anonymous said...

LACK: "And my point is that our poorest ghettos, per capita, have more disposable income than the average Cuban. And they still are better off in life because the government takes care of its citizens instead of handing over money and power to corporations."

And you want to be "taken care of" like that? I'll pass on the gulag, thanks.

But like most progressives, I'm guessing your medicine is not for yourself, but for those less fortunate to be so wise. Maybe those poor people in the ghettos shouldn't be allowed to dispose of all that income, and the government should keep them busy, like maybe in forced labor camps. Is that what you want?
3:20 PM


What kind of Asinine nonsense is this? No one is in a Gulag in Europe, Canada or Japan. How anyone thinks universal health care and overall carrying for social welfare equate to breadlines when folks in Europe obviously aren't starving to death is beyond me.

And one last time for you ignorant monkeys, Cuba's not half the hell hole the Right Wing (White) Cuban exiles make it out to be. Hell, even the right's (former) favorite House Negro - Colin Powell - pointed out that Cuba got a lot of things right.

No, I don't believe that Cuba's some magical land without hardships and massive problems. And quite frankly, even the most ardent supporters of the Castro Regime would realize that they have far more freedom to criticize our government than Cubans do the Communist Party. Frankly, most Americans, even Black folks, wouldn't want to have a strong arm dictator for a President.

But to think that Cuba's some sort of prison colony is just to feign ignorance.

mellaneous said...

ab glad you gave the source again Fidel was just displaying hope I work on Cuba issues and read Gramma and I have to tell you that is not what came out in the communicades I read.

And keep in mind Fidel Castro is no friend of capitalism. Don't want to continue to debate what you read and what I read but remember Fidel has always always been clear about the role of the US in the world.

mellaneous said...

LAC Amen it was so good it bears repeating

LAC said:

"hat kind of Asinine nonsense is this? No one is in a Gulag in Europe, Canada or Japan. How anyone thinks universal health care and overall carrying for social welfare equate to breadlines when folks in Europe obviously aren't starving to death is beyond me.

And one last time for you ignorant monkeys, Cuba's not half the hell hole the Right Wing (White) Cuban exiles make it out to be. Hell, even the right's (former) favorite House Negro - Colin Powell - pointed out that Cuba got a lot of things right.

No, I don't believe that Cuba's some magical land without hardships and massive problems. And quite frankly, even the most ardent supporters of the Castro Regime would realize that they have far more freedom to criticize our government than Cubans do the Communist Party. Frankly, most Americans, even Black folks, wouldn't want to have a strong arm dictator for a President.

But to think that Cuba's some sort of prison colony is just to feign ignorance."

no_slappz said...

Cuba. Now the conversation includes Cuba, the island prison. Okay.

Cuba IS a poor nation controlled by an aging despot who replaced his older brother.

No, the country does NOT have good healthcare. Is it free? It's free in the sense you do not have to give a doctor cash. But don't expect much. The country is too poor to have decent pharmaceuticals and too poor to handle much more than basic services.

On the other hand, some medical services are available to non-residents for very high prices.

Why do you nitwits believe the claims of the Castro regime? Raul and Fidel Castro are like Baghdad Bob, the radio gasbag in Baghdad who ranted that Iraqi troops were kicking the crap out of US military forces while Saddam's regime was collapsing.

Like all communist leaders speaking to their unfortunate citizens and to the world, they lie.

Despots lie successfully -- for a while -- because they control the press. But the Cuban story has been stripped bare for a long time. Cuba is broke and only gets by because of various forms of aid it receives from people and governments elsewhere.

A lot of remittance money goes from the US to Cuba. And a number of countries GIVE to Cuba, like Venezuela giving oil.

By the way, why are Cubans totally incapable of finding OIL and GAS in the Gulf of Mexico?

The US finds vast quantities, drills wells, installs production platforms and pipes the oil and gas to the mainland.

Cuba is on the other side of the same body of water and finds NONE.

Do you think the idiocy of communism and maintaining a chokehold on the population is a factor?

Or are Cubans just unlucky?

Cubans are still driving 1950s American cars. They keep these American relics running. If they can do that, why is there no auto industry in Cuba?

Have you noticed that Cuba has no pharmaceutical industry? No electronics industry? And its sugar industry is nearly dead.

You would think a country with no oil and huge sugar production potential would learn from Brazil and build an ethanol plant to power buses and cars that are otherwise sitting motionless wherever they ran out of gas.

Here's some news. When Fidel croaks, Raul will probably smarten up and make a few changes that will lead to America dropping the Cuban embargo.

But when America drops the embargo, Americans will flood the island and the capitalist revolution will explode. That will destroy the Castro regime -- and Fidel knows it.

In other words, Fidel's ego is the issue. He cares only about his ideals -- not the suffering Cubans.

alicia banks said...

cuba is superior to american in many ways

ie

assata shakur and huey newton praised it as exiles

assata still lives ONLY because she is allowed to do so there

MOST of its citizens are literate etc
_____

rk:

hobama has earned ALL of the hatred he begets

he should be getting SO much more from the poor black fans he is slaying!!!

i will dog him each day he deserves oit just as i did his cuz gwb for 8 yrs

___

mell:

i will never ever respect uts for bashing my heros huey/malcolm etc ...his horrid sexism...his brutal blinded elitism etc...his repulsive colorism...his tag teaming cloned pseudo assnons...his retarded siamese twin deeds with mostly rabid etc...


no truce will ever be possible.
NEVER!

mellaneous said...

AB for the record this was the context from what Fidel said as reported by Reuters May 2008, which clearly has him saying that he has problems with Obama. This is from the reference in the LA Times that you gave.


Reuters) - Cuban leader Fidel Castro on Monday called Democrat Barack Obama the candidate most advanced on social issues running for U.S. president but said his speech on Cuba last week was a "formula for hunger."

In one of his periodic newspaper columns published in Communist Party newspaper Granma, Castro said he had "no personal rancor" toward Obama, but "if I defended him I would do a huge favor for his adversaries."

Obama, speaking before an influential Cuban-American group in Miami, said Cuba deprived its people of civil liberties and free elections, and vowed to maintain, with modifications, a 46-year-old U.S. trade embargo against the island.

"Obama's speech can translate into a formula of hunger for the nation (Cuba), the remittances like alms and the visits to Cuba as propaganda for consumerism and the unsustainable lifestyle that he sustains."

"How is the very grave problem of the food crisis going to be confronted? Grains must be distributed among human beings, domestic animals and fish, which year by year are smaller and more scarce in the over-exploited seas," Castro said. "It's not easy to produce meat from gas and oil."

"Obama overestimates the possibilities of technology in the struggle against climate change, although he is more conscious than (President George W.) Bush of the risks and the little time available," he said.

Obama "without doubt is, from the social and human point, the most advanced candidate" running for the U.S. presidency, Castro said. But he accused him of reviving the Monroe Doctrine, which stated in 1823 the United States would not permit European countries to further colonize or interfere in the Americas."

alicia banks said...

http://www.assatashakur.org/exile-w-love.htm


http://www.cubasolidarity.net/awalker.html

Anonymous said...

LAC: "But to think that Cuba's some sort of prison colony is just to feign ignorance."

Politcal executions and imprisonments and lack of freedom of speech or movement or just minor inconveniences, I guess.

alicia banks said...

MOST americans of all races are nominally literate and hate books...

cubans are UNIQUELY literate and revere education and would never diss the BPP as uts does with pride!

that alone trumps the american educational and cultural crises we debated just yesterday no?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/sfeature/sf_views_uriarte.html

____

mell:

hectic day

google it

"hobama castro 2008"

from politico to pbs
his former love 4 hobama is ALL OVER the net

Anonymous said...

"alicia banks said...
cuba is superior to american in many ways"

Yes, there they accord great respect to the rantings of delusional lesbians.

alicia banks said...

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/castros-stinging-endorsement/

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/28/another-obama-endorsement/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1979926/posts

mellaneous said...

NO Slappz you lie!!

Thats all you do please name the countries that GIVE money to Cuba. And Venezuela SELLS oil to Cuba.

The Cubans drive old cars because the US prevents the Cubans from even buying most western goods. Its called the embargo!

Cuba is a third world country that does feed its population

The Cubans have decided consciously not to bore into the ocean floor off their mainland because they are not sure that it can be done mistake free. Can you say Gulf Oil spill.

NO Slapz you don't have any info on Cuba you went to some right wing site and just through something out just to be contrary. Its becoming more and more and more obvious that you know nothing about anything but due to your skin color you think you know more than the black folks posting here.

no_slappz said...

Cuba:

One of the great jokes in Cuban medical history is the joke played on Fidel a few years ago when he had a little intestinal problem.

A surgeon was called upon to operate. Americans don't know exactly what happened, but we do know the surgery was so badly botched Fidel had to cede power to his brother.

The great Cuban medical system nearly killed Fidel. I've always wondered what became of the doctor who bungled the surgery.

Or was it an operating-room assassination attempt? Close, but no Cohiba.

Inasmuch as Fidel had intestinal surgery, it's likely he had a colostomy that became infected. That's what happens in third-world countries.

Anyway, when the dictator himself cannot get competent medical treatment, you know the system stinks.

La♥audiobooks said...

Mell, no prob.

"I used to always point out how you seldom see AFroCubans leaving Cuba and its because they know that things are much better for them since the revolution."

Exactly. Look at the type of Cubans in America who tend to be more angry and disgusted with Castro. They are almost always the professional type Cubans or the "white" Cubans and their descendants.

And I believe with all my heart if it had been more black Cubans who tried to flee Cuba to America at that time, America would not have been so tolerant with asylum.

On a side note: I have to be honest though. I have my own personal concern and mix feelings towards Cuba, but for different reasons. I know if the Embargo ever gets lifted, many tourist dependant islands in the Carib (including my home) will see a terrible decline in tourism economy. Cuba will be the new "play ground". So I’m not quite the biggest embargo lift supporter :) But it still won't stop me from telling the truth. Just thought I’d share that.

alicia banks said...

http://thetvrealist.com/gossip/For-Fidel-Castro-Obama-reasons-very-well-5281811.html

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/castros-stinging-endorsement/

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2825114320070829

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/05/obama-castro-endorsement-barack-fidel.php

no_slappz said...

mellaneous,

In my extensive personal library I have about 10 books on Cuba, covering its history from the 1500s to today. Some of my books are insider travel books written by people who have spent a lot of time on the island over the last 15 years.

As for your silly claim that Venezuela SELLS oil to Cuba, well, here's how it goes:

Venezuela "buys" sugar from Cuba for an astronomically and artificially high price. Cuba then uses that Monopoly Money to "buy" oil from Venezuela for about a dollar a barrel.

I suppose you can claim these exchanges amount to some kind of financial transaction, but none that is avaiable to the world at large.

by the way. After Fidel croaks and Raul makes a few changes, the biggest land boom of the 21st century will begin in Cuba.

Havana will be hot, hot, hot, and I will be there.

mellaneous said...

Hey Brother Field sorry about the numerous posts but to be honest yesterdays responses to the educational question really ticked me off and then the provincialist got on my nerves.

I wanted to say yesterday that the education system is still unequal I don't care how folks want to dresss it up.

Children living in the inner city don't for the most part get the same education of those living in the suburbs. That is a fact. And so blaming the children when they don't start on equal footing to begin with is just plain foolish.

Yesterday a lot of folks came in and dropped their share of shots at the black community and black children and who can deny that most of the criticisms are true.

But whats also true is the elephant in the room. If this gov't spent as much money and dedicated the know how and technical resources on education as they do on defense and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq the problem would be solved and everybody knows it.

Those children can learn and everybody knows it I don't care what family they were born into all of those children can learn if they and there parents were just given what they needed to thrive and survive.

alicia banks said...

mell:

castro was never a hobama nazi
like mostly rabid...of course he is far too wise for that and he does not share her low IQ etc...

BUT
like millions
castro initially loved obama
he loved the idea and the hope of him

so did i..before i knew he was a just gwb 2.0 and a blood bush
just as cornel did once....and neither rebel sage praises or trusts hobama anymore

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/hobama-king-shrub-poppy-bush-a-bloody-dynasty-of-blood-ties-1.html?_c=feed-atom

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/the-perils-of-prophecy-obama-unmasked.html

no_slappz said...

laaudiobooks is correct.

The end of the US embargo of Cuba will kill the tourist economies of most other Caribbean islands -- IF Cuba remains relatively stable.

The worst possible outcome would involve a free Cuba becoming a magnet for fleeing Haitians.

One of the hidden facts of Cuban is its race problem.

mellaneous said...

NO Slappz you gave yourself away I thought you were one of those guys. I do believe you would be in Havana helping to direct the takevoer of someone elses land. But you won't be there because it will take real guts to take over Cuba. The world won't agree to your nuking it or bombing it back to the stone age so you and your kind who are used to fighting chumps and weaklings will find your cowardly behinds in for a real for a real fight cause the Cubans ain't scared.

I suspected you were one of those government thugs getting paid well to defend the interests of captalism and especially US capitalism.

Field, yall this guy is a real plant, he's busted.

Mack Lyons said...

"A surgeon was called upon to operate. Americans don't know exactly what happened, but we do know the surgery was so badly botched Fidel had to cede power to his brother.

The great Cuban medical system nearly killed Fidel. I've always wondered what became of the doctor who bungled the surgery.

Or was it an operating-room assassination attempt? Close, but no Cohiba.

Inasmuch as Fidel had intestinal surgery, it's likely he had a colostomy that became infected. That's what happens in third-world countries."


The funny thing about that is if he did what most other dictators do and had his surgery in the U.S., then that "operating-room assassination" would have actually succeeded, albeit in such an oblique way that his condition would have been attributed to "natural causes".

Aside from that, complications arising from surgery isn't as uncommon as you make them out to be. Not saying that the Cuban medical system is a gold standard, but hearing the above account from a biased source such as yours could be dangerous for someone who is looking for unbiased facts. In other words, the account should be taken with a grain....or in your case, a rather large pillar of salt.

La♥audiobooks said...

"Havana will be hot, hot, hot, and I will be there."

Yes, as long as your kind is in the midst, history in Cuba will always be repeating itself. Someone will always have to come along form yet another revolution to get your kind out, the thieving exploitive white man who corrupts everything he comes in contact with. Yes I said it.

uptownsteve said...

La*A

"And I believe with all my heart if it had been more black Cubans who tried to flee Cuba to America at that time, America would not have been so tolerant with asylum."

You got that right.

Unlike No-Slappz I've actually been to Guantanamo Bay and a little bit of Southeastern Cuba.

Cuba today is a majority mullatto and black nation.

No Slappz

"One of the hidden facts of Cuban is its race problem."

Oh what the hell are you talking about?

I'm not saying there aren't race issues in Cuba but many Cuban expatriates, black, white and mixed race ( not the white Miami gentry) have said that they really didn't experience racial stratification and hostility till they came to the US.

mellaneous said...

NO Slappz stop lying

Cuba doesn't have a race problem. Black Cubans are freer than US blacks in some respects.

Cuba had a race problem before the revolution and incidentally it was US tourist which actually played a role in stirring up some of the racism before the revolution.

You are spreading lies which is your purpose for being on this blog. You are a virus you have been discovered and outed.

YOu still didn't provide the names of the countries that GIVE Cuba money. And what would be wrong with that anyway? The US gov't gives Apartheid like, racist Isreal money, in fact more money than it gives anyone else.

And I got your racist assertion about the Haitians. The Cubans are much more forward thinking than you and your fellow government lackeys. The Cubans are "can-do" people and always find a way to deal with whatever comes. So they would welcome their Haitian brothers and sisters and better yet go and help them to fight off the Yankees who continue to interfere with their affairs so that they can't successfully organize their society for the benefit of Haitians.

alicia banks said...

mell:

any young child can learn ONLY if they have real parents/surrogate parents AT HOME to teach them to
behave and work at school...

ie
there are 24 hrs in each day.
the avg child spends 5 with any teacher!

ie
teachers whisper about "crazy checks"...kids expressly coached to by their parents to go berserk to garner psych checks for meds etc...a clandestine cash inductry in schools

ALL EDUCATION FOR ALL CHILDREN BEGINS AT HOME.

WE MUST FIX STUDENTS' HOMES BEFORE ANY SCHOOL WILL EVER BE FIXED!!!

i stand by that!

ps:

i am not a special ed teacher.
i teach gifted children.
so i also stand by all i said about mostly rabid's defective heathens.

mellaneous said...

Steve said:
"I'm not saying there aren't race issues in Cuba but many Cuban expatriates, black, white and mixed race ( not the white Miami gentry) have said that they really didn't experience racial stratification and hostility till they came to the US."

Steve I am a Miamian originally I can tell you I have heard that more than a dozen times from Cubans and ironically some of whom who were rabidly right wing.

Mack Lyons said...

"The worst possible outcome would involve a free Cuba becoming a magnet for fleeing Haitians."

It's interesting how "worst" is often juxaposed with "Haitian". Of course, we're dealing with a nation that refused to be "good Niggers" and overthrew their plantation/colonial master (France) and caught Hell for it ever since. The U.S. wants no more slave-descended Blacks than they already have, hence the current immigration policy that welcomes Cubans with open arms so they can be used as political pawns against the Cuban government. The Haitians? Useless. Besides, the U.S. just can't stand the fact that no one has managed to put those Negros "in their place".

mellaneous said...

LA Audio- wow I didn't know you went there! That was deep! I forgive you again for your apparent classist misstep the other day( the key word being apparent:)

LAA said:

"Yes, as long as your kind is in the midst, history in Cuba will always be repeating itself. Someone will always have to come along form yet another revolution to get your kind out, the thieving exploitive white man who corrupts everything he comes in contact with. Yes I said it."

I would amend white men to capitalists since most white folks really don't act like that but those who get sucked into the ideology, the religion of worshipping money, the religion of capital.

alicia banks said...

children's "ritalin" is lucrative when sold to adults or taken by parents...

it calms children

but it works like a speed high in adults

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