Thursday, June 11, 2009

ROUNDUP.



Most of you know that I am not religious, but I will be damned if this next story doesn't make me want to rethink my position on fate. Remember how the old heads used to say that "when it's your time it's just your time? Well, consider:

Seems a poor Italian woman who missed that doomed Air France flight by accident, just died in a car wreck in Austria. Talk about bad luck. That is some eerie stuff. The Grim Reaper was not going to be denied on this one, the killjoy must have really wanted this poor woman.


Bummer.


Speaking of Italy; sorry folks, but I am not feeling any sympathy for Amanda Knox. Her trial for killing her British roommate is in full effect, and she will be taking the stand tomorrow. Maybe it 's because, initially, it was just another case of the black guy did it, but my gut isn't stirring for Amanda. I know that her case has become somewhat of a cause celebre[sorry for the lack of accent marks] for some A-merry-can journalist, but the field isn't biting. It's just the same old same old from where I sit.


Speaking of old; you have all seen the video by now of one of those Texas storm troopers tasering a 72 year old woman. The scary thing about this story is how many people have come to the defense of this clown and said he used proper police procedures. Yep, I saw it on FOX. But there is no amount of proper police procedures in the world that would justify such actions from someone who is paid to protect us. Shoving a 72 year old lady to the ground because she refused to sign a parking ticket? I don't care how obnoxious she was, you DON'T TASER A 72 YEAR OLD WOMAN! PERIOD!

Texas, I can't wait for you to go.


Speaking of FOX News; it's amazing how the folks on the right are trying to spin this latest domestic terrorist killing here in A-merry-ca. "Political correctness caused him to kill"? Please! You people on the right are becoming seriously unhinged. But I guess guilt will do that to you.

I'm out.

111 comments:

house nigger said...

Should have worn her seatbelt.

Gregory said...

Field,

Not quite sure how to frame this without insulting the faithful, but I've started to wonder over the past few years if atheism is a "white" thing. It is a touchy subject on several different levels and the conversation almost always gets heated but I am sincerely interested in other views on this topic.

I grew up in an Irish catholic and American protestant household, with each parent doing their bit to insure that I was informed in the ways of their one true faith respectively. I lost my "faith" at an early age, even though I studied more theology at university than most Baptist preachers.

My absence of faith is generally not a problem in Europe but it becomes a real problem when I'm in Africa, particularly west Africa. I learned, the hard way many years ago, that when questioned on matters of religious belief that "atheist" was not an acceptable response. Christian is cool, so is Muslim, even Judaism or tribal animism were all acceptable, so these days I just say "Buddhist" when asked after my invisible friends. It does the trick but I am struck by the prominent nature of the church in African life, both in Africa and the old U.S.of A.

The west Africans are sending missionaries to Europe to spread the Gospel, without a hint of irony in their purpose. It is generally acknowledged that the next great revival in Christianity will come from the southern hemisphere, with Africa as the most likely candidate. The religious fervour of Cameroon makes our Bible Belt look positively apostate.

Anyway, apologies for the rambling but I'm interested in the thoughts of others.

Regards.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Gregory:

I dunno why but as I read your comments, I heard a British English accent.

Robster said...

I know we're not supposed to Taser the elderly, but the elderly shouldn't settle their long-held disputes by exercising their second amendment rights either.

This world is changing in ways I never imagined, and not necessarily for the better. Brace yourselves, peeps. More to come, whether we like it or not.

Max Reddick said...

I'm with you field on th 72 year old. If you have to get crunk like that, if you have to resort to such measures to control a 72 year old granny, then you should not be in law enforcement.

And you say it's amazing how Fox news is trying to spin this instance of domestic terrorism, but I say it's absolutely disgusting. By Fox not acknowledging how completely egregious this guys actions were, they only encourage the next guy. I understand Fox is working an angle, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade so to speak.

Vérité Parlant said...

The conservatives are upset b/c white supremacist thinking is classified as "right wing" extremism. Republican conservatives embraced the Dixiecrats, love Rush Limbaugh, and stand behind Pat Buchannan's BS, and have been happy to let segregationists co-opt their party, but now they cry when people associate them with racism.

White supremacy is about preserving the status quo of white privilege. Conservatism is about preserving the status quo. One of them's whining on a site I frequent right now that the "liberal" media's blaming Von Brunn's actions on the right wing. The man is crazy, seems to hate everybody, even George Bush, but facts are facts. The right wing hasn't done much to discourage people like Von Brunn. In fact, they've used the southern strategy during elections hoping to get people who feel like Von Brunn to vote for their candidates.

Von Brunn is a "right wing" extremist. (And yes, even on the far left there are racists, we know this, but ...) Blaming his actions on political correctness is about the dumbest thing I've heard so far on this tragedy.

field negro said...

House N....,that was not nice.

Gregroy, I am pretty much an agnostic, so I come down in the middle of this debate.

I know one thing; the "faihtful" are doing a good job of hedging their bets.

Just think, if they are right and there IS a god, well, the rest of us are pretty much f*&%#d!

You make a good point about Europe and Africa, though. Isn't it funny how things have turned around. Didn't the Europeans used to bring their religion to Africa?

"By Fox not acknowledging how completely egregious this guys actions were, they only encourage the next guy. I understand Fox is working an angle, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade so to speak."

Great point Max.

"The conservatives are upset b/c white supremacist thinking is classified as "right wing" extremism. Republican conservatives embraced the Dixiecrats, love Rush Limbaugh, and stand behind Pat Buchannan's BS, and have been happy to let segregationists co-opt their party, but now they cry when people associate them with racism."

VP, you nailed it!

Say It Loud said...

Gregory: "I've started to wonder over the past few years if atheism is a "white" thing."

So far, Gregory, no one's biting. Here my take: I don't think it's a "white thing" so much as it is an intellectual thing.

I don't know many "atheists," but the ones that I do know are fairly intelligent, and believe that God and the Bible are so many fairy tales, and early man's attempts to explain the natural world.

Atheists no longer need God or gods to provide explanations for mysterious occurrences in nature-- science has replaced that God.

As an aside: I do believe in God, for good reason.

field negro said...

Say It Loud, that was interesting.You gave credit to atheists for being "fairly intelligent" yet you declared your own belief in "God".

That was very refreshing.

Thank you.

FlyNMy40s said...

"Atheists no longer need God or gods to provide explanations for mysterious occurrences in nature-- science has replaced that God."

Interesting that people think atheists believe science has replaced God when so many Scientists like myself, believe the opposite.

Case for the Creator was written by a Scientist/former atheist who now believes in God and provides great backgound into how many Scientists feel about this subject.

The American on trial in Italy? Put her UNDER the jailhouse.

nyc/caribbean ragazza said...

Field I hear you on the Amanda Knox thing. I read that Egan article. What was up with his title? How does he know she's an "Innocent"?

Yes the prosecutor in the case is a mess but her stories don't add up.

Why did she name her former boss, a black man from Africa with an airtight alibi, as the suspect? Why can't she stick to one story? To me it's pretty simple, either she was at her bf's house during the murder or she wasn't.

Also please spare me the she's being railroaded thing. Her bf is rich and is from a prominent Italian family and is under the same charges as her. What, because she's a pretty American she shouldn't have to deal with the justice system of the country where the crime was committed?

It's fascinating how different the slant is in the British press.

Raggy dee Ann said...

I saw that last night and was going to comment about it on my own blog. I mean what are the chances of that happening huh? Really bad luck...you couldn't nake up stuff like that....

Raggy dee Ann said...

Gregory: West Africans are sending Missionaries out here? That's a new one on me. I do know that in recent years a whole lotta shop front churches are showing up and a new crop of cable tv preacher men have their own shows, but missionaries too? Wow. Life is a circle.

sick freak said...

FNC Has More Viewers Than CNN/MSNBC Combined During Museum Shooting Breaking News--TVNewser

God bless FOX NEWS.

Lets look at this guy that did the museum shooting--

Christian hater
Jew Hater
FOX News’ O'Reilly hater
Weekly Standard hater
Bush hater
Neo-con hater
9-11 truther
Socialist
artist
Stated that “SOCIALISM, represents the future of the West”
Stated that the Apostle Paul destroyed Rome by undermining its pagan virility.
Hated corporations
Hated McCain

Yeah he really sounds like a rightwinger.

No where do you find he listened to Rush Limbaugh,Sean Hannity,or Glenn Beck,watched FOX NEWS,or read any of #1 NYTimes best selling author Ann Coulter's books.

Speaking of unhinged--

The left wants to rape and have hate sex with Conservative women

The left fantasizes about 14 year olds and calls them prostitutes.

And you want to talk about the right being unhinged??

Typical moonbat behavior

Sarge said...

I have been an atheist since the age of five (learned circumspection along with it) and like most, interact with, know, and love theists. My wife of over forty years is a methodist, I perform in a lot of churches.

Definitly understand why some people want a deity, I've spent too many nights in holes in the ground, or under dead falls wondering if I was going to see the next day. Now it's cancer, and some people feel the need for something, and I understand why. I just don't have the need.

But with some people it's their identity as well, something that identifies them as a "we".

Field, what you discribed disturbs me a lot.

But I saw something a short while ago on the news that was a bit more disturbing.

A line of people marching out of building, single file, hands behind their heads, a gauntlet of armed, armored cops shouting at them, gesturing that they "keep those f--king hands up" while they stalk up and down the line. I wouwld have thought I was seeing scene s from Attica, but it was a co-ed crowd and they were fully clothed. Public isn't quuiiiite ready for the next step, but give it a couple of years

There had been an 'incident' with a gun in a school, and this was "proceedure". I wonder what civics lesson the kids learned THAT day? A cop I know told me that this was for the kid's own protection.

But protection from who?

rhapsodyinbooks said...

First of all, I love you! Not in the in love sense, but you know. Secondly, I don't know if you have access to The Chronicle Review (June 12, 2009 issue) but there is an article on urban drug addition in Philadelphia that might interest you. At first, when I saw the pictures accompanying the piece, I thought, oh, a story about one of the third world countries! There are so many aspects of this story that are amazing. If you want to read it and can't, email me or whatever and I'll send you my access. [JUST KIDDING, CHRONICLE PEOPLE, I WOULDNT DREAM OF IT]

east austin said...

that’s the point .. life is uncertain and man is doing the best he can .. unfortunately every ethnic, political and religious group believes they know what’s best and therefore should lead .. in 1968 dr. king called this behavior the drum major instinct .. http://www.civilizednation.com/speeches/mlk/The_Drum_Major_Instinct.htm

one of my favorite quotes “do you know that a lot of the race problem grows out of the drum major instinct? a need that some people have to feel superior".

my 20’s was a very exciting time that included many mistakes, however i do not understand how this happens over and over again .. at what point do you say to yourself “all in”.. so sad.

ya’ll they breed these old boys and girls tough in texas .. three weeks ago I posted a line about nathaniel sanders a 18 year old kid who was fatally shot by an austin police officer at 5:00am .. as he slept in the back seat of a parked vehicle, in a parking lot of an apartment complex .. the officer said he saw a gun and an internal investigation is ongoing .. following a local blog in austin .. bloggers were 20 to 1 for the police officer .. as it relates texas great-grandmother who did not comply with the officer request and did not conduct herself as a good citizen .. bloggers are 20 to 1 for the texas great-grandmother .. interesting.

actually, “some say” is a memorable line and those talking points .. i must admit they’re very good in the mis - information game.

J said...

Fly,

You bring up a good point. Most assume the matter is science vs. religion when in fact there are many scientists out there who believe in God.

Who was the scientist you had in mind?

Anonymous said...

Sarey pretends it wasn't her knocked-up adult daughter that Letterman mentioned in a joke. Then we see the alleged 14 yo, looking 18 with the same clothes and 'Something about Mary' haircut. Hmmm.

Granny lied Field. Makes me more willing to believe the officer. And dash-cam didn't show everything. Granny lied...when the Truth would have been sooo much besser. Why did Granny lie? And the Nazis got old too....

Amanda sounds like she's done the perp walk before. And had the white "GOOJC". The US MSM is spinning it as poor little white gurl. The Europeans see her as Karla Homolka.

Mold

La♥Incognita said...

Sorry Field, I have mix feelings about Granny getting the zapper. If she is senile or mentally challenged that would be more of a delicate situation to judge. Apart from that, this could have been a situation where she might have placed my safety or yours at risk, would it then be ok. When certain people get older, they get even more arrogant. She could have gotten worse from another "storm-tropper", and what if she was black. I think she got off lucky.

Amanda Knox who? Whatever.


As for religion, I don't know anymore. Something about it saddens and confuses me. One day I was at my mother’s house, I was so frustrated with life that I lashed out on God. If you saw the look on my mother’s face, you would have thought she was standing in the path of a moving train (I guess after that I could pull a prank and tell her I’m gay, heck, she won’t even flinch at this point). I’m to the stage in my life where I choose not to think about religion - at least not for a while. If I do, then "God" might seem way too hateful and bias for me to worship. So let’s leave it at that. Sorry if I disturbed anyone.

Rudy said...

The right is not happy about the latest round of kooks being labeled extreme right wing, huh?

Well, most of these kooks harbor(ed) anti-left or anti-Obama views. Are not those view, right wing?

In closing, the Right can label a former presidential candidate as a terrorist and socialist without a shred of evidence to support their position, but in the next instance, become upset when evidence shows that the latest round of "kooks with guns" can be identified as right wing extremists?

Sounds like they (the Right) can dish it out, but cannot take it.

field negro said...

La....why is that picture of you lashing out so clear in my mind? And sorry, I can't co-sign on any beating down of granny. I just can't.:)

East Austin,WTF? I don't remember that story,please send me a link.You folks in Texas *shaking my head*

Rhapsodyinbooks,you are out here picking up what I am putting down, so you know I love you too. Thanks for the 411 on that article.I will be sure to check it out. And yes, at times,Philly can be just like a Third World country. I think that's why I love it so much;it reminds me of home. :)

uptownsteve said...

Right on Rudy.

Their spinning is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Marketing Diva said...

Atheist thing honestly I cannot relate. I am not sure if Atheist just reject a belief in a God or if they also reject Faith. And if they reject Faith ( confidence or trust in a person or thing) then what are they holding onto in moments of uncertainty, pain or joy.


As for the 72 year old taser victim, I think white folks have lost their minds. It was clear she was a little out of line but the cop should have used other methods. White folks clearly are comfortable challenging cops when they are stopped.

I was on YouTube and I noticed that a lot of white folks get tasered during traffic stops. I believe this an opportunity to generate a lot of money. I think we should open the:

Ryan Moats School for How To Drive While Black even when You’re Not

We would teach how to remain calm even when someone is dying

We would teach you how to talk respectfully as the officer rambles for no reason, and blatantly disrespects you

We teach how not to challenge his weak authority so that the cop will not taser the elderly

You will learn how to position yourself in front of the police camera

You will learn how to speak loudly so you can be heard by the police camera

You will learn the valuable art of over explaining your actions (Officer I am reaching for my wallet in my back right pocket with these two fingers in a slow downward motion)

And most importantly you learn how to down load the video, that your friend took to YouTube and how to call your home phone so the machine will tape the incident

I think we could make millions; many white folks appear to really need the training

Robert M said...

After the murder of Stephen T Johns suing a gossip sight can't be grounds for being a House Negro. I am sure the gossip can harm her career and marriage but it isn't going to harm people as a whole. House Negro should at least mean you are acting against the interests of a lot of people.

True Blue Texan said...

East Austin is right. Texans are tough, unforgiving, and cutthroat. Not quite the South, not quite the West, but their own thing. Don't know if Field has come across one particular FN my city elected for DA:

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/2009/02/23/The_Last_Temptation_of_Craig_Watkins.aspx?redirected=1
http://www.reason.com/news/show/125596.html

ch555x said...

Vérité Parlant:

Good points and should be common knowledge...

missincognegro said...

Field, we live in an ugly world. But, I still have hope.

BTW: Check out my new blog: Miss Incognegro.

Peace.

Anonymous said...

God is and will forever be, he is the CREATOR of the EARTH, and I would dare any of you to seek him, I pray for you to get SAVED, SANCTIFIED and filled with the PRECIOUS HOLY GHOST!!! for if you do, you will go through REGENERATION! that mean's your NEW BIRTH, it mean's the washing away of your SIN'S, and after you have been born again, you will receive SPIRITUAL INSIGHT, for what you see with your natural eye's, cannot compare to your SPIRITUAL SIGHT! then I Pray you read GENESIS, that's where GOD introduce's himself to MAN, for if GOD did not exist the world would not exist, the world could not exist in the state it is in! if it was not for the MERCY and GRACE of GOD this world would truly be a total waste land! if it was not for the SAINT'S of GOD crying out for mercy every minute, GOD only know's where this world would be, it is because of the prayer of the true believer and mercy that we are not consumed!

PSALM 23:1
The lord is my SHEPHERD, I shall not want.
PSALM 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of GOD; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork.
PSALM 42:1
As the hart panteth after the water brook's, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
PSALM 46:1
God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in TROUBLE.

PSALM 53:1
The fool has said in his heart, there is no God, CORRUPT are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

2.God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that seek God.

HI GRANNY, PROPHETESS WALLACE

Nan said...

Re: atheists. By coincidence, one of the atheist blogs (http://gretachristina.typepad.com/) has an interview up now with a black atheist. So they do exist.

I've never understood why so many African Americans are as religious as they are, considering that the church in its various manifestations functioned quite nicely for centuries to maintain the status quo and justify institutional racism. People who think they're going to get their reward in heaven will put up with an amazing amount of crap on earth.

Field, normally I'd be inclined to agree there's never an excuse to tase an old lady, but after seeing an 88-year-old insane geezer go postal at the Holocaust Museum earlier this week I think the stereotypical image of old people as being frail and helpless is overdue for some revision.

Frank Drackman said...

Atheism.....
So when you die, Nothing Happens...Great...
For my money they need to be tasin MORE 72 yr olds, not less, what with their suckin up all the Social Security for their effin Lottery Tickets and Shuffleboard while they get free pacemakers and titanium hips from Medicare...

"TASE EM' ALL, LET GOD SORT EM' OUT"

Wow, tied Atheism and the Tazind incident all in one catch phrase...


Frank

FlyNMy40s said...

I'm on the fence about whether or not granny should have been tazed. Personally, I don't think old people, excluding mental/physical illness, should get a pass for doing things someone half their age couldn't do.

east austin said...

field.. per your request,

1).austin american statesman http://www.statesman.com/search/search/search/UnifiedSearch?query=nathaniel+sanders+
2).google nathaniel sanders and austin.. there a ton of articles

peace

grinder said...

The Italian woman missing the doomed flight and then getting into a car crash is mere coincidence. The events were not related, much as flipping "heads" 25 times in a row has no bearing on the 26th coin toss.

The nature of probability says that every now and then, something really strange happens. This is a good thing, or no one would ever win the Powerball.

field negro said...

Leave it to grinder to bring cold hard analysis into the mix.:)

Thanks for that link east austin.

Nan, you might be right about old folks gone wild. We had a 70+ bank robber here in Philly last week. Go figure.

Miss incognegro, I will check out your blog.

Congrats!

Say It Loud said...

@Fly: "Interesting that people think atheists believe science has replaced God when so many Scientists like myself, believe the opposite."

Not thinking it's so, Fly. Check out some hardcore atheist sites for yourself.

The worship of science is a religion with them.

I'm not saying all scientists are atheists. You're proof that not all are!

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

"I think the stereotypical image of old people as being frail and helpless is overdue for some revision."

I guess none of you have watched Madea, huh? LOL! Granny still possesses a left-handed knockout punch. (wink) And yes, if had been a black 72 year old woman, she'd probably would have gotten the mess beaten out of her, jumped by more than one officers, and be dead. You'd hear white folks justifying it and saying she should have obeyed the officers, that's the general trend, it's not right or fair, but that is how it's done in America, which is a shameful disgrace.

Nevertheless, some old folks do have some physical ailments, bones are fragile, and some do wear pace makers. I don't have that problem but many do. A pacemaker is made up of leads (thin flexible wires) and a generator. Can anyone imagine an old person being tasered with volts of electricity and how that could have turned out? I don't think refusing to sign a traffic ticket justifys tasering a 72 year old woman, especially, when it is not against the law to refuse signing them and is a citizens right. Now, if she had a gun and was shooting at the police, I might would look at it somewhat different.

As for the athiest vs God, well, I could give you my testimony why I know there is a God but I won't because you can lead a horse to the trough but you can't make them drink.

I know you've probably heard old people say that everything going on today is in that bible. That's true! However, you would have to study it, not just on the surface by reading it, but do some indepth, serious digging (studying), meditating, and praying to get that revelation. There is a reason they call it a treasure. When someone is digging for a treasure they dig deep because that is where the treasures are.

The BIBLE means Believers Instructions Before Leaving Earth. It is a map, a mirror, history, revelation of the Truth, and many other things all in one. Everyone here on earth is on a path walking toward where they will spend eternity. In the bible when it says "turn" it means that you are walking away from the light and going in the opposite direction. I'll leave it at that because them that have ears will hear.

As my Haitian ancestor would say, "Lè ou gen krentif pou Bondye, se lè sa a ou konmanse gen bon konprann. Si ou konnen ki moun Bondye ye, ou gen lespri." Which means, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
fear in this case means = To be in awe of; revere

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

*meant to say hidden treasure*

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

My people perish for lack of knowledge.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Here is some question and answers to pregnancy and something about women.


PREGNANCY Q & A & more!

Q: Should I have a baby after 35?
A: No, 35 children is enough.

Q : I'm two months pregnant now. When will my baby move?
A: With any luck, right after he finishes college.

Q : What is the most reliable method to determine a baby's sex?
A: Childbirth.

Q: My wife is five months pregnant and so moody that sometimes she's borderline irrational.
A: So what's your question?

Q : My childbirth instructor says it's not pain I'll feel during labor, but pressure. Is she right?
A: Yes, in the same way that a tornado might be called an air current.

Q: When is the best time to get an epidural?
A: Right after you find out you're pregnant.

Q : Is there any reason I have to be in the delivery room while my wife is in labor?
A: Not unless the word 'alimony' means anything to you.

Q: Is there anything I should avoid while recovering from childbirth?
A: Yes, pregnancy.

Q : Do I have to have a baby shower?
A: Not if you change the baby's diaper very quickly.

Q : Our baby was born last week. When will my wife begin to feel and act normal again?
A: When the kids are in college.


TOP TEN THINGS ONLY WOMEN UNDERSTAND
10. Cats' facial expressions.
9. The need for the same style of shoes in different colors.
8. Why bean sprouts aren't just weeds.
7. Fat clothes.
6. Taking a car trip without trying to beat your best time.
5. The difference between beige, ecru, cream, off-white, and eggshell.
4. Cutting your hair to make it grow.
3. Eyelash curlers.
2.. The inaccuracy of every bathroom scale ever made.

AND, the Number One thing only women understand:

1. OTHER WOMEN

Shady_Grady said...

It's not prudent to tell a cop what you're NOT going to do and dare him to tase you no matter what your age or gender may be.

Atheists reject belief in God for the same reason that some people reject belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Actually I think the Flying Spaghetti Monster makes more sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

There is no faithfulness or love in the land. No one recognizes me as God. People call down curses on others. They tell lies and commit murder. They steal and commit adultery. They break all of my laws. They keep on spilling the blood of others. That is why the land is drying up. All those who live in it are getting weaker and weaker. The wild animals and the birds of the air are dying. So are the fish in the ocean. My people will eat. But they will not have enough. I am their God. But they are not faithful to me. My people are destroyed because they do not know me.

La♥Incognita said...

"I am their God. But they are not faithful to me. My people are destroyed because they do not know me."

Granny, when I was about three/four years old, I asked my mother "If God made us, then who made God?" (come to think of it, back then she had that same horrid look on her face too). I could still remember that night like it was yesterday. I have a feeling, from till back then, I was never convinced.

So what made God? Who or what is God? Once and for all, can this simple question be answered? Is he/she/it an organism - like us perhaps? And why should I worship a book when it promotes spitefulness, bloody wars, and a class system as well as slavery? Why are good people ignored by God to suffer while he/she/it seems to allow the wicked to prosper? You know, I'm still trying to hang in there, but it's not looking good. I actually feel a bit liberated, calmer, and mentally unchained from the "magical" madness of religion.

cinco said...

As usual, I still maintain that if you obey the law, this shit won't happen to you. Too many people disobey the law, refuse to stop or pull over or show their hands or stop running and then wonder why, blank, blank, blank happened. At 72 she has lived long enough to know better and then 'do better'...how many people related to her or that know her has she affected now by her unwillingness to comply with simple instructions. If she had entered the road, someone would be complaining how the officer should have risked his life to pll her back in...idk but something has to be said for following the rules.

In terms of religion, believe in whatever, whomever you want. Where I get irritated is too many people base there beliefs on tradition; on others and on the "Bible"...with no insight into if you don't believe in God/Saten, Heaven/Hell then the "book" that tells the story has no meaning to you either. Religion is what many need to make it another day, just like drugs and/or alcohol. I don't necessarily agree with it but if it makes you a better person, a better parent, a better boss/co worker or neighbor then keep on believing.

Black Diaspora said...

@La♥Incognita: "Why are good people ignored by God to suffer while he/she/it seems to allow the wicked to prosper? You know, I'm still trying to hang in there, but it's not looking good. I actually feel a bit liberated, calmer, and mentally unchained from the 'magical' madness of religion"

You addressed your comments to Granny, so pardon me for butting in. I'm sure she will respond in due time.

Over my lifetime, I have found answers to your questions, and I would like to reply, but this is not the forum for such an in-depth discussion.

If you're willing to leave an e-mail address, say one of those Yahoo ones, or one where you don't get your valuable e-mails, I would be happy to share that knowledge with you, some of which didn't come by way of orthodox sources.

"So what made God? Who or what is God? Once and for all, can this simple question be answered?"

Yes, these "simple question[s]" have answers.

Here's one: God is not so much a "being" as He is an Existence.

If Good is a be-ing, then it's possible for Him to enter a state of not "be-ing."

As an Existence, God's not Be-ing, but remains eternally as that which exists.

Open a throw-away e-mail account, post it here, and I'll answer all your other questions as well.

I promise!

Anonymous said...

@Granny-"As for the athiest vs God, well, I could give you my testimony why I know there is a God but I won't because you can lead a horse to the trough but you can't make them drink."

I agree. It's a waste of time trying to explain the existence of God to someone who has no sense of God. It's like trying to explain to someone who has never tasted an orange what an orange tastes like. It can't be done. One has to taste the orange himself in order to truly know.

"The BIBLE means Believers Instructions Before Leaving Earth."

I heard nearly the same thing with one small difference: The B.I.B.L.E. stands for "Basic' Instructions Before Leaving Earth."

As far as being an atheist is concerned, if being an atheist means that you do not believe in God, then what God are you using to not believe in? There must be a reference point "in you" that you are using to deny THAT existence.

IMO, it is impossible to NOT have faith in something greater than you are-unless your ego is so big that you believe that the 'universal ball' begins and ends with you. And the "I believe in science only" philosophy doesn't cut it because science is totally blind to anything beyond the philosophical materialism that it deals in. It does not consider the possibility of the existence of a Higher Power, God or even an afterlife. Anything beyond the five senses, science discounts as unimportant.

But just because science doesn't know about the existence of an afterlife or the Sacred does not mean that neither exists. It just means that Science is not 'conscious' of IT.

To quote a spiritual teacher:
"Science has nothing to say about consciousness, so it focuses on the brain instead, and assumes that's isomorphic with consciousness. That why science believes that when you're dead, you're dead."

Don't get me wrong, science has done some wonderful things for us. It has made our lives more comfortable. But a lot of its knowledge turns out to be 'despair' in that a lot of its discoveries has made the world a more dangerous place.

Knowledge without wisdom always lead to despair. And science, brings some good things but it brings a lot of despair. For every ounce of knowledge science discovers, a pound of ignorance comes with it.

Ernesto said...

Field you need to do a separate post on religion. On second thought the hell with it. No one is gonna change anyone's mind. All I can say is look around and you may come to the conclusion that any divine being of creation is either being sadistic at worst or a deadbeat dad at best.

On a lighter note...anyone remember that George Carlin routine about catholic school; "Hey Father, can God make a rock so big that even He couldn't lift it?" I always get a chuckle out of that one.

Ernesto said...

OK forget the rock question. Here's a better one: Why do people have lower back pain? And the vestiges of tail bones? Ahhh never mind...it's pointless.

Anonymous said...

A+ is Anon 10:40pm

Black Diaspora said...

@Ernesto:
"Here's a better one: Why do people have lower back pain? And the vestiges of tail bones? Ahhh never mind...it's pointless."

Not so pointless. I know the answer to the vestigial tail, but see Anonymous at 10:40 PM and the "orange analogy."

Black Diaspora said...

@A+: "For every ounce of knowledge science discovers, a pound of ignorance comes with it."

A+, you make some good points. You're right, of course: Our spiritual evolution (Wisdom) is lagging far behind our ability to discover, and know, how our world works.

Let's hope it won't be our undoing.

Sundjata said...

Brotha, how do I get you on my blogroll and subscribe to your blog?

Black Diaspora said...

Ernesto: "All I can say is look around and you may come to the conclusion that any divine being of creation is either being sadistic at worst or a deadbeat dad at best."

Ernesto, I have looked around me, and you're right: the God of creation is "sadistic" and a "deadbeat."

But what you're not aware of is this: you are that God, I am that God, every person on the planet is that God.

Surprise!

Anonymous said...

@BD-"Let's hope it won't be our undoing."

I hope it won't. But right now, it doesn't look so good to me.

Right now, we are a 'knowledge' oriented society instead of a 'wisdom' oriented society. Knowledge, can change quickly. Today, knowledge is becoming outdated almost as fast as it is discovered.

Unless we miraculously become wise human beings, I am afraid we are headed for trouble. Of course, I hope that I am wrong.
A+

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 10:40:

"I agree. It's a waste of time trying to explain the existence of God to someone who has no sense of God."

It's not, exactly, that, I just didn't want to rush and give her an answer that might confuse her even more. I've been in the place that she is at before and have asked some of the same questions at one time in my life. The answer I was always given was pray and seek God for an answer. That answer, although, they were telling me right, used to upset me and frustrate me. Nonetheless, I would discover later on they were leading me in the right direction but I just couldn't see it then.

The reason I haven't said anything is because I've been praying about how to answer her without confusing or frustrating her more.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

People who don't take the time out to get to know God, won't believe what you tell them anyway, because it sounds foolish to them. Besides which, the Lord has to draw them to him first.

earlgrey said...

2 + 2 = 4

The Earth revolves around the Sun.

The Speed of light is ≈ 186,282.397 miles per second.

The chemical formula for water is 2 hydrogen and 1 Oxygen

These are facts.

God. Whose? Vishnu? Yaweh? Allah? Trinity? Buddah? Thor? Zeus? etc. etc. etc.

An atheist does not have faith in science because science is provable and repeatable. Atheism is not a faith. Faith as defined is the belief in something that can't be proven. I simply choose to not believe the fairy tales I was taught a as child. Mine happened to be judaism. It could have easily been Islam had I been born in Saudi Arabia, or hinduism in India. How can a rational person look at the perfusion of religions and not be struck by incompatability of the varied belief systems. Are you all so convinced that you, at this time in history, are so much more right then all the other believers through time? That yours is the one true religion. Or is it all Pascal's wager of better safe then sorry?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Nah, earlgrey, it has nothing to do with better safe then sorry. Nope, not at!

Let me ask you a question all of those facts you quoted, what do they do for your soul or your peace of mind?

field negro said...

Whoops, I am running out of popcorn. This is great stuff! I am not worthy.


Sunjata, just cut and paste my address and do your thing.

Let me know when you have me linked. I always try to link people who link me.

And this is a good time to say that if any of you posting here have me linked and I don't have you on my blog roll, please shoot me an e-mail [fnblg@yahoo.com] and I will hook that up for you.

Speaking of e-mail. BD please shoot me an e-mail with that knowledge you were going to drop on La~Icognita as well. But I must warn you: my daddy had an M.Div, and a PhD in homiletics; and look what a skeptic I turned out to be.

You have your work cut out for you with me my friend.:)

earlgrey said...

@GrannySFT,

See Granny that is the problem. I don't have a soul. When I am dead that's it, done, fini. Burn me up and spread my ashes to the wind. Not having to worry about eternal damnation is enough peace of mind for me.

Finances, my kids, my job. I have enough to worry about without having to be scared of going to never never land. My time on earth is the here and the now. I don't have the time to waste on imaginary friends.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

"Not having to worry about eternal damnation is enough peace of mind for me."

If a person is filled the Holy Spirit they don't worry about eternal damnation either. I bet if you were to test that peace of mind you say you have, get by yourself, away from everyone, where it's quiet, and sit for about 15 minutes in silence, you'll find out how much peace of mind you have.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Field:

Divinity and Homiletics is man-made doctrine. No wonder you are a sceptic.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

*skeptic*

grinder said...

Leave it to grinder to bring cold hard analysis into the mix.:)

What can I say? I am one of the ice people, after all. ;-)

Ernesto said...

Black Diaspora said: But what you're not aware of is this: you are that God, I am that God, every person on the planet is that God.

Well, some of us are more God-like than others, meaning that there are those who have more power to change things that need changing. I write to my representatives, I march in the streets. I'm searching for a cure for apathy among the general public...'tis not enough but must suffice for now.

Now can you drop some wisdom on the rock question? :)

Black Diaspora said...

@earlgrey: "An atheist does not have faith in science because science is provable and repeatable. Atheism is not a faith. Faith as defined is the belief in something that can't be proven...."

You have conveniently left out another definition of faith: "Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing."

In that sense of faith, atheists are believers. I don't wish to get into a semantic squabble over this, as I have spent too many hours debating these very issues with other atheists.

Science seeks proof, but not in all cases: science would limit itself to that which is readily knowable, and provable, if it maintained that posture.

There are uses for that which is called "speculative science." Where would science be without it."

And it doesn't stop there: it's used extensively as a way to forge an understanding of that which hasn't yet been proved.

You're going to have to accept another set of "facts" when you transition to the next realm, which is called death, which is nothing more than a continuation of life, since Life knows no end.

"I simply choose to not believe the fairy tales I was taught a as child."

Choice is your God-given right. God is not going take that away from you. What you call "fairy tales," if understood spiritually, possesses information that you need in this life and the next.

But, by all means, stick to your "facts," it all works out in the end.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 10:40:

"It's a waste of time trying to explain the existence of God to someone who has no sense of God. It's like trying to explain to someone who has never tasted an orange what an orange tastes like. It can't be done. One has to taste the orange himself in order to truly know."

I thought about what you said and Jesus came to my mind on how when he came to a town of unbelievers, he left and went elsewhere because he knew their hearts couldn't receive.

Black Diaspora said...

"Now can you drop some wisdom on the rock question? :)"

Okay, I'm smiling, I hope you're satisfied.

As to your question: Of course I can drop some wisdom on that conundrum.

Here's the rock question as you framed it:

"...can God make a rock so big that even He couldn't lift it?"

Let's expand the question: "Is there anything that God can't do?"

And the answer is, Yes:

He cannot not be God!

Anonymous said...

@Granny-"I thought about what you said and Jesus came to my mind on how when he came to a town of unbelievers, he left and went elsewhere because he knew their hearts couldn't receive."

Thanks Granny...
A+

Black Diaspora said...

@Field: "Speaking of e-mail. BD please shoot me an e-mail with that knowledge you were going to drop on La~Icognita as well."

Will do, but most of what I have to offer is based on my own experiences, and will not substantiate the existence of God to your intellectual satisfaction.

I'm convinced, but it will sure be Hell trying to convince you and others who have doubts.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Black Diaspora:

"but most of what I have to offer is based on my own experiences, and will not substantiate the existence of God to your intellectual satisfaction."

That is the answer right there.

Black Diaspora said...

@earlgrey...
"See Granny that is the problem. I don't have a soul. When I am dead that's it, done, fini. Burn me up and spread my ashes to the wind."

I know that your comments were meant for Granny, and I'm butting in again, but...

Of course you have a soul. You're here aren't you?

You can burn your body, but that part of you that's not physical, not "flesh and blood" will survive you.

In that, you have no choice. But you do have other choices, a plethora of choices.

Man, I'm trying to get out of this thread, but you folks keep bringing up the strange.

Know this: in this world and the next one, you get what you believe--that is, until you stop believing what you believe.

If you believe that you don't have a soul, well, you will experience that--that will be your after-death experience.

Further, you'll fall into a fast sleep, and remain that way until you're awaken.

But by our reckoning of time, that may take eons.

I tell you again: You have choices. No one is going to take that away from you. Certainly not God, who always honors your choices.

Just think: God always honors your choices!

Ernesto said...

Black Diaspora I love your diamonds of wisdom, and I love the way Granny breaks it down, too. I cannot match either one of you but I can hope to throw some thoughts out there and get your take on them.

Did you know that every atom heavier than hydrogen and helium was made in the raging atomic furnace of a long dead star? That means that virtually all the matter of which we are made is literally "stardust". Science tells us this, but I know you can sense this spiritually as well. So it's all good.

I love science because finding the answers bring up even more interesting questions. I despise any belief system that gives ultimate answers since there is no such thing in this universe.

Religion is a perplexing conundrum to me. It has been the savior of many and the destruction of just as many. A double-edged sword that allowed slavery and bigotry to fester for hundreds of years while also helping the victims of slavery and bigotry to survive hell on earth and overcome great obstacles. So if it works for you, then who the hell am I to question it?

So many of us are convinced in what we see as the truth and in our own righteousness that words and ideas have no effect. Our beliefs will only change through life experience, and maybe not much even then. I was turned off to God by the actions of men. A quick example; what kind of entity sits back and allows Dick Cheney??

Seriously though, true peace of mind requires no belief system. One can be perfectly at ease in a totally ambivalent Creation. All you need is to see yourself in the context of infinity. To quote the Tao Te Ching: "Heaven's net casts wide. Though its mesh is coarse, nothing slips through."

Black Diaspora said...

"That is the answer right there."

Hi, Granny.

Wasn't God clever: He hid himself inside of man (The Kingdom of God is within....), and told man to ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Then, He left it up to him.

God gave man a choice to believe or not to believe in Him, choosing Himself not to force even a belief in God upon man, but remaining ever ready, ever willing to reveal Himself and His Kingdom to those who inquire with an earnest heart.

How ironic: that that which would substantiate God's existence is a choice and a request away, and the hard-hearted choose not to ask, and not to know.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Black Diaspora:

"that that which would substantiate God's existence is a choice and a request away, and the hard-hearted choose not to ask, and not to know."

Yes, it is! It is, also, a combination of sad and somewhat shocking, even though he said it would be like that.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

What I meant by "even though he said it would be like that" is what unbelievers would do.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Black Diaspora:

It still amazes me how a lot of people believe that the trees in the Garden of Eden were regular fruit trees with apples and oranges. The trees were the fruits of the Spirit. Another one is that Adam was standing there when the devil tempted Eve. He was not! He had left Eve alone by herself and that's when the devil popped up. Adam came back after the devil had left. Just goes to show you, if a man leaves his woman alone too long, some snake will come along and entertain her.

Anonymous said...

@Earlgrey-"How can a rational person look at the perfusion of religions and not be struck by incompatability of the varied belief systems."

On a percentage basis, how many times has the logical and rational mind been right, and how many times has it been wrong?

Why would a logical and rational person like yourself spend time talking to believers and people who have faith in God? Why waste your time discussing such fairy tales and illogical nonsense?

I am being sincere. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I am asking because it doesn't make sense to me. What are you hoping to get out of it, if you already know there is nothing beyond this life?
A+

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Black Diaspora:

I've always sensed the deep in you. I know who you are in Him.

Black Diaspora said...

@Ernesto: "I despise any belief system that gives ultimate answers since there is no such thing in this universe."

You intuit correctly: that's true in the physical and the metaphysical realm.

"So if it works for you, then who the hell am I to question it?"

I'm not religious! I'm spiritual! Actually, I'm a mystic. I was born that way. Before incarnating this time around, I made that choice.

We're always at choice. And our choices create our reality.

And neither am I opposed to religion, despite the harm that it may cause: people gravitate towards whatever understanding of God in which they find comfort, or that resonates with their level of understanding--in the same way that water seeks it's own level. (See, I brought science into my analogy!)

Religion is our way of understanding and relating to God. Some need a religious structure for that purpose. I don't.

"Our beliefs will only change through life experience, and maybe not much even then. I was turned off to God by the actions of men. A quick example; what kind of entity sits back and allows Dick Cheney??"

You may have lost faith in God, because of men, but God didn't lose faith in you, because of men.

And there's any number of men that make Ol' Cheney a saint by comparison.

"...what kind of entity sits back and allows Dick Cheney??"

The same "entity" that sat back and allowed you, as well as Hitler, Mussolini, and Mother Teresa, ad infinitum.

I didn't mean to lump you in with that ilk (Mother Teresa is OK), but you get my point: God gave life to us all.

And to answer your question, let me ask you one: Why do we sit back allow the likes of Cheney?

Why should we ask God to do for us what we're unwilling to do for ourselves?

You may find Cheney objectionable, but to many he's a hero.

(Just so you know: Cheney's no hero of mine.)

"Seriously though, true peace of mind requires no belief system. One can be perfectly at ease in a totally ambivalent Creation. All you need is to see yourself in the context of infinity."

Okay, I'll go you one step further: True peace of mind, is to be "Out Of Your Mind," altogether.

We misuse the mind: It's to be used to create. That's it's only purpose.

Therefore, when it's not being used for that holy purpose, it's best to be out of the mind--that is, quiet, still, and placid.

Try it. When we stop telling God our truth, He tell us His.

It would take reams and reams of cyberspace to explain that sufficiently.

Thanks for the exchange.

Black Diaspora said...

@Granny: "Just goes to show you, if a man leaves his woman alone too long, some snake will come along and entertain her."

Granny, you always manage to get a laugh out of me.

You're right on all points:

"The trees were the fruits of the Spirit. Another one is that Adam was standing there when the devil tempted Eve. He was not! He had left Eve alone by herself and that's when the devil popped up. Adam came back after the devil had left...."

You read as closely as I do. I discovered somethings in the Creation Stories, I don't think many people have seen there, and it would startle most believers.

I'm not religious, Granny, in the usual sense of the word, but I'm a believer.

As I said earlier: I had no choice in the matter. Or to put it more accurately: I made the choice before coming into the world.

I hope that that doesn't surprise nor shock you. I haven't had the typical life.

It's been pretty amazing. I have so many stories to tell, but most wouldn't believe, or care to know.

And thanks, Granny for this:

"I've always sensed the deep in you. I know who you are in Him."

Ernesto said...

Black Diaspora, my pleasure.

"Try it. When we stop telling God our truth, He tell us His."
You don't need to add another word. My head is already wrapped completely around that.

Many years ago I had an epiphany, on a mountaintop no less. Fittingly, it was near La Serena (The peaceful) in Chile on a spot where the Milky Way is so bright on a moonless night that it casts a shadow on the ground. At that latitude (29 degrees south)the center of the galaxy, tens of thousands of light years distant, is directly overhead, and you can clearly get the perspective of being inside a spiral galaxy. The sight of that and moreso the realization of what you are seeing cannot help but leave you awestruck. For me it was a very spiritual moment, yet profoundly non-religious. Years later I wrote a poem about it:

The Great Abyss

From solid ground I stare
Upwards through the Great Abyss
Asking the meaning of Creation
Seeking acknowledgement of Struggle

But this infinite power
Whose sparse molecules shined above
Gave nothing more of an answer than
Overpowering, Silent Ambivalence

I demanded Redemption from the Void
To have my nearly impossible random chance
of Existence given a momentary glance but

The gaze never shifted
It looked away and past
On parallel paths
Unable to receive me

And yet I felt not rejection
But the most profound acceptance
As part of Creation
And a part of the Infinite

Love in a vacuum
Redemption in space

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Black Diaspora:

"You read as closely as I do. I discovered somethings in the Creation Stories, I don't think many people have seen there, and it would startle most believers."

I studied and dissected every single word, examined it closely, and obeyed this,"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie..."

"I'm not religious, Granny, in the usual sense of the word, but I'm a believer."

I'm a believer too. "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee..."

"It's been pretty amazing. I have so many stories to tell, but most wouldn't believe, or care to know."

Nah, they wouldn't because they didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah when he walked the earth." They were expecting a worldly king.
Nor did they believe the prophets of ancient times, and what those prophets spoke still holds true for today and coming to pass left and right.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Ernesto:

Funny that you should mention, the galaxy because there is not a day that goes by, rain or shine, that I don't go sit out on my porch and observe creation.

Black Diaspora said...

@Ernesto:

"And yet I felt not rejection
But the most profound acceptance
As part of Creation
And a part of the Infinite

Love in a vacuum
Redemption in space"

Wow, that's special. And incredibly beautiful! You, my friend, connected with All That Is!

You know: You can connect, and connect again, simply by going within and maintaining silence.

Carlos Castaneda, another mystic, described it this way, and I paraphrase: Quiet your thoughts! Stop the internal chatter!

He said that it would shift your Assemblage Point, and thrust you into another reality.

He wasn't far off. What it will do is put you in the realm of the Absolute, where God dwells.

And there, ask what you will. And if you listen really hard, you will hear God's answer in the midst of the "void."

I hope you won't mind: I'm going to copy your poem for a later re-reading.

The last couple of lines really resonates:

"Love in a vacuum
Redemption in space"

No better description of that place within, as well as without.

Black Diaspora said...

@Granny: "I studied and dissected every single word, examined it closely...."

Granny, thanks for your witnessing. Truly God teaches where the tongues of men fail.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Black Diaspora:

The word says can two walk together unless they agree.

You've probably noticed this, but I pay close attention to everyone that post on here, more than some of them think, but I know you know. I have sensed different things about each of them. I'll say this again, and I've always discerned that deepest in you.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Today, I was intending to ask Jody a question. I was reading some old Jet magazines online. You know, the ones that used to be smaller than they are now. I ran across one of my ancestor's names in it, he was involved in a scandal back in the 50's. He was a doctor. I got sidetracked and it slipped my mind.

earlgrey said...

@anon 2:49am

You are right it is a waste of time arguing with people of faith. Their conceited narcissisism of holiness keeps their eyes shut to the real world. How much more wonder is there in a world that exists simply on its own. A sunset more beautiful for pure lack of intent or purpose.

I hope that enlightenment might shine on those stuck in the dark ages. But laying down the security blanket, the fear, the easy comfort that is hard. We are alone and have just ourselves. Perhaps if more of us realized that we would be nicer to each other. It is a shame that most of us still reach for an adult-like apparition for guidance. An other to show us the way even when we are grown. Religion allows people to remain children forever.

cinco said...

Christopher Hitchens...

No matter what believers spew on here or attempt to interpret, nothing changes. Scriptures are still what one believes not what one can prove. Saying 50 times in 100 different ways doesn't make it factual, it just solidifies what one may believe!

There is no proof. I've yet to converse with anyone that has died.

If you believe in the Bible why limit yourself? Believe in ghosts (other than the Holy Ghost), aliens from outer space, vampires, demons, etc.

I'm more amazed @ the futility of every religion that embraces the idea that their ideas/doctrine/method d worship is the only 'true' and 'right' belief to have!

cinco said...

Is religion about choice or following set rules and/or beliefs?

As soon as rules/doctrines are not followed you'll see how quickly you are dealt with for not making what is perceived to be the correct 'choice(s)!

Black Diaspora said...

earlgrey said: "You are right it is a waste of time arguing with people of faith...."

I don't argue, because I don't feel threatened. My beliefs are not on trial, and frankly neither are yours.

I'm a person of faith, as you call it, and I don't care what you believe.

And no, I don't insist that you believe what I believe. Believe what you wish.

"Their conceited narcissisism of holiness keeps their eyes shut to the real world."

I can't speak for others, but I'm no more holy than you are. And if the world of the senses is what you call "the real world."

Then even science is perplexed as to what is "real" and what isn't.

" Other theorists speculate that it is consciousness that collapses the wave function and thereby creates reality. In this view, a subatomic particle does not assume definite properties when it interacts with a measuring device, but only when the reading of the measuring device is registered in the mind of an observer (which may of course be long after the measurement has taken place)."

Read the whole article. You have the link.

"How much more wonder is there in a world that exists simply on its own. A sunset more beautiful for pure lack of intent or purpose."

If the world is more wonderful for you because you believe that it exists on its own, so be it. I don't care. But don't chide me if I believe that it exists as a result of a deity.

To each his own. Or would you deny me even that?

I agree a sunset has no "intent or purpose." We give it all the intent and purpose that it has, and even those qualities that we call "beautiful."

Our reality takes place inside of us, not without. Give that some thought....

Without us, there would be no sunset to filter through our judgment to call it anything.

"I hope that enlightenment might shine on those stuck in the dark ages."

We can both hope. But don't single me and other believers out as the object or your apparent derision.

We all know very little about the universe within which we live, and science's limitations will not enlighten us.

There are forces well beyond science's power to measure or comprehend. But you would keep us benighted, because you insist we must take on the empirical restraints of science rather explore our world using less traditional methods.

"But laying down the security blanket, the fear, the easy comfort that is hard. We are alone and have just ourselves. Perhaps if more of us realized that we would be nicer to each other."

I don't use a blanket for security or anything else, but if I did why begrudge me that. I don't begrudge that you don't use one. It's fine with me.

We're not alone, but even if we were, it's not going to make us "nicer to each other."

You think that we're alone, and I don't find you very nice: you have attacked believers as living in the "dark ages," as not "enlightened," using "security blankets," mired in "fear," and seekers of "easy comfort."

I don't find the tone of those words friendly, nor conducive to a productive conversation.

"It is a shame that most of us still reach for an adult-like apparition for guidance. An other to show us the way even when we are grown. Religion allows people to remain children forever."

More of that warm, fuzzy, friendly-toned conversation that characterizes the dialog of the non-believer.

Oh, well. No once is forcing you to believe in God, certainly not me. But why are you so vested in taking my God from me?

Look, keep your beliefs. We, in the world, need the counterbalance. It allows us to more clearly focus on what we believe.

You're a necessity: But for goodness sake, don't take my God away, because you haven't found one for yourself, or don't care to.

I can't think of anything more selfish. Can you?

Black Diaspora said...

@cinco: "If you believe in the Bible why limit yourself? Believe in ghosts (other than the Holy Ghost), aliens from outer space, vampires, demons, etc."

Three out four ain't too bad. I've seen ghosts, extraterrestrials, and demons.

And yeah, I believe in the Bible, too.

And I suspect that a "vampire" will come along any day now.

I don't limit myself, but I do observe others doing so.

La♥Incognita said...

Hi Black Diaspora, I would be interested in your what you have to say. You can email me below.

noname (at) blackwomenblogs (dot) com

Thanks!

cinco said...

@ Black Disapora...

Perhaps in your case even the sky is not your limit.

I learned many years ago that what a person believes is true to them whether or not anyone else believes it.

As I've said before in this post and others if whatever and in whomever you believe works for you great. Without proof I won't believe in any of the aforementioned things or in any one religion or it's rules.

La♥Incognita said...

For what it's worth, I saw spirits/ghost/jumbies when I was younger. I also have a feeling "we" are not the only living beings in the universe. Oh well.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

LaIncognita:

We're not the only living beings in the universe.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

LaIncognita:

When you mentioned this, "For what it's worth, I saw spirits/ghost/jumbies when I was younger."

You were probably more trusting back then and had a child-like faith.

earlgrey said...

@BD,

Perhaps you are different. Perhaps you have a level of tolerance that I don't see and have not experienced in other people of faith. I will grant that, and I respect that.

It should not be forced on me however. You don't force me yourself? Fine. But, Would you support taking under god out of the pledge? Would you support canceling federal holidays for religious events? Would you allow equal rights for all people regardless of what your religion tells you what is right or wrong? BD if you would do these things, then you are different and I commend you for it and I apologize if my tone offended you. But till the day comes when I am not forced to trade in currency that memorializes god worship every time I buy a burger, I will feel forced one way or the other.

BD, maybe you are an exceptional bastion of tolerance and acceptance, but please recognize that is the exception not the rule. Being labeled a heathen and a heretic or lost by most, around me can make me a tad testy.

If I am wrong then I will raise my glass to you in salute and wish there were more people like you.

Anonymous said...

@Earlgrey-“Their conceited narcissisism of holiness keeps their eyes shut to the real world.”

It sounds like you live only through your five senses, which can be deceiving as far the ‘real world’ is concerned. I believe science will attest to that fact. Humans DO have a right intuitive brain, which does all kinds of things that the left brain can't do.

It also sounds like you have a great disdain for God, the institution of religion and the people in it. What/Who is this God that you hate so much, and think is nonsense? Why does God make you so angry?

BTW, ‘narcissism’ is not limited to only people of faith. Narcissists are people who spend a lot of time finding fault with others, but see nothing wrong with themselves. There are plenty of ‘non-believers’ in that category. One of the infirmities of being human is that some behave as if the universal ball starts and ends with them. Because some humans-including atheists and the faithful- think they know it all, they learn very little and miss other dimensions of life.

As I move through life, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. And when it comes to a Higher Power such as God, the Tao, Krishna, Moses, Muhammed, Buddha, Vedanta, The Infinite, Truth, or whatever name IT is called--I try to keep in mind a quote from Herbert Spencer:

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
A+

Anonymous said...

@Earlgrey-“We are alone and have just ourselves. Perhaps if more of us realized that we would be nicer to each other.”

Maybe so. But how kind and nice are you to those you disagree with? Are you any kinder and nicer knowing that you are alone and that there is no God? Are you any kinder than believers in God?

There are people who follow a loving and ‘kind’ God, and treat others in the same way. I have observed and experienced their kindness toward others, and myself. Why do you conclude that all people of faith are unkind-and try to control your life? BTW, I have met some mean-ass atheists too.
A+

Black Diaspora said...

@cinco: "Without proof I won't believe in any of the aforementioned things or in any one religion or it's rules."

As well you shouldn't. But I'm afraid that the proof you seek won't be found in the material world, but within.

And here's another irony: it will be proof designed for you alone. No one can follow your path, no matter how well-worn it is, but you.

This is why most people don't find God. He's not so much a without God as He is a within God, although He's everything you see, and everything you don't see.

But if you wish to commune with Him (And He's more than willing to do so. He's not unavailable.), you'll have to go within. God hangs out there--within you!

Spirit reveals itself to spirit. You'll have to develop your spiritual senses a bit more to fully find and appreciate God.

But if you don't believe in Spirit, you won't be tempted to go even that far.

Your loss. But that's okay, you'll get plenty more chances.

cinco said...

@BD...

Although I see where you're coming from, that path I traveled for over 30 years. I have no desire to go back or to continue on it any more.

Although most of my family, extended family and even a couple of my grown daughters
have a strong belief in God, faith and religion and all that it encompasses; but not me. But what they're doing seems to work for them, and they're not hurting themselves or others so I hce no issue with their decisions.

I in turn will try to treat others like I want to be treated, to be kind and honest and to work on me by minding my own business and trying to do the right thing. If I don't succeed then if there is something else I have to deal with I will.

cinco said...

Oh and btw I don't perceive not believing a 'loss', and more then I view believing as a gain.

Black Diaspora said...

@earlgrey: "Would you support taking under god out of the pledge? Would you support canceling federal holidays for religious events? Would you allow equal rights for all people regardless of what your religion tells you what is right or wrong? BD if you would do these things, then you are different and I commend you for it and I apologize if my tone offended you."

Frankly, these things can be removed or they can stay--I have no preference one way or the other.

However, if you're offended by their inclusion, then I'm all for their removal.

For me, every day is a Holy Day, every hour divine, and each minute a blessed moment in time/no time.

So I'm removing Christmas. Thanksgiving, despite it's religious overtones, is not a nationally observed religious Holiday, and neither is Easter.

So unless I've missed any, I'm officially removing Christmas.

Although Sarah Josepha Hale who proposed Thanksgiving to Lincoln was probably a devout woman, Thanksgiving was not hailed as a religious day, but one of thanksgiving.

"Would you support taking under god out of the pledge?"

No problem with that either. It's hypocritical to say, "One Nation under God with Liberty and Justice for all."

We all know that's poppycock, and I usually omit it anyway when I recite the pledge.

What else you got? Oh, yeah:

"Would you allow equal rights for all people regardless of what your religion tells you what is right or wrong?"

I've stated already that I'm not religious. I'm spiritual. I decide, as do you, what is right or wrong.

The constitution already grants us "equal rights." It's not a religious thing, but a legal thing.

If you're asking if I'm for or against same-sex marriages?

Well the answer is: I believe that people should be able to marry whomever they choose, without interference from the state, their next-door neighbor, or the congregation at their local church.

And our money? Well, the motto, "In God We Trust," is another misstatement. We trust the almighty dollar. We trust power. We trust the might of or military. We trust our own press: "We're the most powerful nation in the world."

Why, because we can blow it up utterly. That's not power.

"BD if you would do these things, then you are different...."

Truth be told, I'm not different. I'm All of It. Just as you are. I'm the one who opposes same-sex marriage, and supports it. I'm the one that is both pro-life and pro-choice. I'm the one who took that little old ladies purse, and I'm the one who chased the culprit
down.

You see: If I don't accept All of It, then I can't change any of it.

You see--whether you know it or not--We're All One.

Literally!

We're the worse of what's worse about us, and we're the best of what's best about us.

This is true on all levels. You may not be able to accept that at this time.

It is a rather hard concept to grasp. And it has nothing to do with one's intelligence, but with one's spiritual growth.

You didn't offend me. I was not threatened.

Black Diaspora said...

@cinco: "I in turn will try to treat others like I want to be treated, to be kind and honest and to work on me by minding my own business and trying to do the right thing. If I don't succeed then if there is something else I have to deal with I will."

Cinco, you're a religion unto yourself.

I like the cut of your jib. If you're an atheist, or a non-believer, then I wish that more religious folks were like you.

The Golden Rule is a powerful force in our lives. Religion doesn't give it that force, but people like you who have made the choice to live life according to their own light, without the approval of any man, or any institution.

I salute you!

cinco said...
"Oh and btw I don't perceive not believing a 'loss', and more then I view believing as a gain."

You're right, of course. It all works out in the end, no matter what we may think, or believe.

Black Diaspora said...

@earlgrey: "Being labeled a heathen and a heretic or lost by most, around me can make me a tad testy."

Why? Why should it give you pause at all?

I, too, am called many things: deluded, a believer in fairy tales, and a imaginary God in the sky, who is sadistic, and a figment of my imagination.

That's fine by me. I find it all very funny, actually.

I'm not offended. From my point of reference, it's the same as if I'm being ridiculed for believing that the world is round instead of flat, by those who don't have clue.

Nor do I have a need to fight back, to hurt, or to beat anyone into submission, for believing as they do.

I don't ask anyone to believe as I do. Others can believe as they choose. And they can choose to believe about me what they please.

They'll get no quarrel from me, nor retribution, nor anger for believing the way they do.

I'm not threatened!

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