Tuesday, July 01, 2008

Another victory for the NRA.


Let me start this post by thanking a wonderful reader by the name of Tamara. Thanks Tamara for e-mailing me this story to remind me of what is going on here in A-merry-ca.


How many of you remember my man Joe Horn down in Texas? You remember Joe don't you? He is the good ole boy who saw a couple of South Americans stealing from one of his neighbor's, unoccupied home, and decided to give them a good taste of justice, Texas style. "Move and you're dead". Sorry Joe, I don't think they spoke English. Yep, good ole Joe, he sent those two amigos packing to that big fiesta in the sky.

And now it looks like there will be no charges filed against Joe. He was simply protecting his neighbor's property with...ah, deadly force. Apparently under Texas law that's allowed. Yes, it's called the "Castle Doctrine" ("Castle" get it?), and if one even believes that there is a reasonable chance that someone can get away with stealing from his neighbor's home, he can go Charles Bronson on that individual. Hey these two dead guys were no angels from what I could tell, and they actually had some stolen items on them when they were found shot to death in the back. I guess the wages of sin is death.

You NRA types must be ecstatic . I swear you guys have been on a roll lately. I guess this is a classic example of why we have to protect ourselves with firearms in our homes. Hell you never know when a bunch of strangers might show up and try to steal your shit. I bet the bad guys won't be going to Pasadena, Texas anytime soon, not with the likes of Joe Horn ready to take aim.


And you civil rights people were actually crying that it was racially motivated. Why? Because the men were Afro Latinos (translated, they were black) and Joe was white? Nooooo. Come on now, is everything about race with you civil rights people?


"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct... the use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."


Oh, don't worry about those "some in the community" Mr. District Attorney man, they are just complainers. They are the same folks who don't want law abiding citizens to have guns; like that field Negro fellow.


So congrats Joe, you can go on with the rest of your life now. You were already a hero to most folks in Texas, and damn near everywhere else in A-merry-ca, so go on and ride this hero thing out. We knew they couldn't send you to jail. Killing two illegals like dogs who had a bag full of your neighbors belongings, with your licensed fire arm? I don't think so. What would they tell the rest of the lawful gun owners if the grand jury did indict you? That it's not alright to kill a couple of illegals for breaking into your neighbor's home to steal shit? What kind of message would that send?


You are one lucky man Joe, I can't wait to see the movie.

83 comments:

Whitney B. said...

Mr. Field,

What do you expect? Of King George and the Castles? That is explanation enuf. It's just another white porker who can do as he wishes. That's how Texas is. It's a land of it's own and the folks there are nut cases. I got to experience that first hand for a long two years, which was more than enuf.

What's that expression, Guns, God and whatever? My country 'tis of thee, the land where nuts run free, of thee I cringe.

But, hey, that's why we have those Amendments, right? And the Supremes sing loudly.

Miranda said...

Meanwhile John White in Long Island is out on appeal of his 2-4 yr prison sentence for killing a white teen that had threatened his son and was on his property threatening him...but John White didn't have the protection of the complextion. John White is still John Black.

hennasplace said...

Remind me never to live in Texas. What I thought was interesting was defense attorney who tried to justified his actions. From what I understand, they were not even on his property, but the neighbor's. I really do not know is really sicker Ole Joey boy or the people who really do not find what he did was wrong. The 911 call was interesting as well, the police told him not to go out there with his guns and he did it anyway. To kill two guys for stealing, I guess if they had killed someone the people in the community probably would have participated in a good old fashioned lynching. String them up at the nearest tree, then riddle the bodies up with bullets, and sell their organs as souvenirs. I know perhaps I am just being silly, but I find it disturbing and just morally wrong. Blood sport seems to come to mind.

Jody said...

Hey Field, my mom is here visiting, got in today from Southeast Houston, which is a stones throw from Pasadena.... She was telling me about this... and she was sayin at the same time another story in Houston is of a 14 year old girl who gave birth in a school bathroom, baby in toilet... dead and they are charging her with
FIRST DEGREE MURDER and want to try her as an adult!

But wait, it gets even crazier! In Texas, they just passed a law that you can now walk around strapped,... seriously, people walkin around with their guns out and trigger fingers just a itchin! I dont even want to go back there ever cause the idea of being around a bunch of people walking around with their guns strapped on would scare the shit out of me! can you imagine the poor convenience store clerk wondering is he or isnt he gonna rob me?

Needless to say, my mom is looking at places in Philly to move.

jjbrock said...

What ever happen to justice for all man kind? This is so wrong in so many ways. And the nerve of America to wonder why it's hard to be proud of her.

szechuanpork said...

Must be fun picking these cherries, FN. In Sherwood, AR this year, a home owner shot a negro attempting to steal a 4-wheeler worth thousands of dollars sitting on a trailer in his driveway. The home owner broke the law and is going to trial. I read somewhere that the gun violence figures are actually inflated by people using them to commit suicide. I'm sure you are OK with both the suicide of the gun owner and the dishonesty in reporting it that way.

heartsandflowers said...

It's sad and pathetic for sooo many reasons, but you know what? I bet people will think twice about coming into that neighborhood to steal. If more male criminals were shot vigilante style they would also think twice about preying on so many Black women. I'm glad the dad from Long Island is out pending his appeal. He had every right to defend his family. What fools would roll up on someone's house with a bunch of guys, angry and drunk and threatening physical harm. Screw calling the police. They don't always show up. I would've shot at them too.

szechuanpork said...

Seriously. If Jamaica was being invaded and looted by another country, you just could not be so irresponsible to report this in this way. We need a ton more work visa's for people from Central and South America and real enforcement of immigration laws. Mexico does it on their southern border, errrr, minus the work visas, you against that too?

H. Peyton said...

If I saw my neighbor being attacked, I'd do all I can to help them. If that means shooting to kill, then so be it. That is defense of a human being. But if my neighbors aren't home, and I saw someone breaking in their home, I'd call the police and lay low until they come. I wouldn't confront the robbers, or do anything to draw attention towards my house. Property isn't something worth me putting my life on the line for.

That man in Texas sounded all too eager to go outside and shoot someone. I know people who have had to use guns in self-defense, and they were downright terrified by what they had to do. This man was talking like he was about to go out and shoot deer. Disgusting.

Redstar said...

Field, it's not just the NRA that's on a roll, you are. This series of posts you're running is amazing.

Miranda - thank you for bringing up the John White case. That was exactly what I thought of as I was reading this post.

MacDaddy said...

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct... the use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."
field, what if the two people stealing from my neighbor were white, and what if I, a black man, said, "Move, white boys, and you're dead!" and shot the two white guys dead? Would the law still apply? Would my use of deadly force still "not rise to a criminal offense?"

John said...

It's funny. Even the author of the bill said that the shooting wasn't justified.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5176243&version=4&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

A.F. said...

They played the actual 911 conversation today on a radio show, and I was hoping I'd see this on your blog. The caller is just unmistakably proud of himself that he's about to go murder these people and does it while he has 911 on the phone. Probably everybody else heard this when the situation first arose, but I didn't know about it. The 911 operators are not very driven in trying to stop him. I just want to repeat, though, the man is PROUD and sounds like he's been sitting there with his shotgun for about 20 years, just waiting for somebody to try to break into something so that he can murder them. He really, truly does. And now he's walking the streets with similarly minded people in TX...???!?

quakerjew said...

szechuanpork, if that AZ home owner lived in TX, they would've no-billed him too.
From what I understand, in Mass., residents must make "every reasonable attempt" to escape from their own home before using deadly force against an intruder.
"Your honor, I decided that getting my fat ass down the stairs and out into the snow was unreasonable so I took out my shotgun with the slug barrel..."

Pasadena Joe sounded way too eager with the 911 dispatcher. A cop that had just arrived on the scene in an unmarked car just before Joe went outside, was afraid Joe might shoot at him too. Cop said he thought Joe may believe him to be the "wheel man" and so he slid down in his car seat.
'Course, what if he WAS the wheel man?
Now, if all of the races involved were switched, I'd bet there would be a lot more squawking about the "shot in the back".
'Course two white kids would probably not be breaking into the neighbor's house, they'd be painting a swastika on macdaddy's garage door.

Packing in PA said...

Jody,

Don't look too hard in PA ...

http://blogostuff.blogspot.com/2004/12/percentage-of-adults-with-carry.html

Pennsylvania is # 3 in the nation in % of the population with a concealed carry permit. 6.8% of the population vs. only 1.6% in Texas. Add to the fact that it is really, really hard to get a permit if you live in Philly or Pittsburgh (unless you are related to the mayor, don't even start a discussion about Mr. Street), you have about 1 in 8 males between Philly and Pittsburgh packing heat.

szechuanpork said...

quakerjew, AR=Arkansas Just north of Texas by the grace of God and the guys who drew random lines for the states. Joe is creepy from what I know, but I'm a little sympathetic to being overrun by people from another country. Race has nothing to do with this as far as I'm concerned. That's not inconsistent with the previous sentence. What is wrong with a castle law INSIDE your house anyway? Outside seems less definitive.

honeyindigo said...

trigger happy does it, and as long as it's darker than the chaffe between your knees, it won't get you in trouble with the law, huh joe.

i scratched texas off my list of states to move to long ago...and this is just one MORE reason why.

The Angry Independent said...

Field,

Can you pick me a few of those cherries while you are up in that cherry tree? I like mine really ripe.

But seriously... I don't support the Horn situation. As I have stated before... this is a completely different situation from a scenario where someone is breaking into your own home, invading your home, and threatening your family. It's an apples and oranges comparison. And I would venture to say that a case like this one is extremely rare. Most cases that I read about (where homeowners were home during home invasions) either end with the suspect(s) being shot, or something terrible happening to the homeowners.

This is a situation where you have a screwed up State law. But even with the few incidents, like the one involving this idiot John Wayne character, it should not infringe on the rights of other, more responsible, people to have the deadly force option available.
It shouldn't be just a legal right.... it should really be seen as a human right.... the right to live peacefully & to feel secure in ones own home...but to be able to defend your home, self and family when necessary.

The answer to this problem would be legislation to correct the screwed up law that allowed Mr. Horn to escape punishment. You can be pro-gun and pro-gun control at the same time... (as long as those controls don't go overboard...like the laws in D.C.).

There's no way I am getting involved in a burglary occurring at someone else's house. I'll call police and that's about it.

And I hate to bring race up... (because I hate when others attach race to every situation)...but I have a hard time believing that if Mr. Horn were Black... that he wouldn't have been charged on the spot and held without bail...or with a bail so sky high that he couldn't get out. Socio-economics and race (race priviledge) probably played a part in determining how this all ended.

szechuanpork said...

FN,can I make some Obama predictions once he's elected in this thread? Pretty mild.

quakerjew said...

szechuan,
as a kid I was told several times that if I ever shot anyone in the yard, I should drag them into the house.

I've never bought a gun, but I'm armed to the teeth. All of them wrapped up in the attic.

I have more to say, but your handle is making me hungry. (Nothing homoerotic about the previous sentence).

szechuanpork said...

Wow, I just realized you are Reached. big hugs. I'd cook you lunch any day.

szechuanpork said...

err. reaching

mikeb302000 said...

I like what Redstar said up above. You are on a roll with this series of posts. Thanks. As far as that nut in Texas goes, he's another reason why fewer guns out there, whether legal or illegal, would be better all the way around.

AgentX said...

Welcome to Texas. This is the same state where the ex-marine went nuts and shot 20 people from the belltower of the University of Texas. This is the same state where a guy crashed into McDonalds and shot 30 people then himself. This is the same state that had the Branch Davidians' last stand. What do you expect?

In today's news, the woman who died on the floor of the NYC King hospital was Jamaican. Her family can't afford to send the body back. Check the Today show website for the story.

Christopher said...

Post-SCOTUS hand gun ruling (that Obama supports) has commercial jet travelers really confused.

In Atlanta Hartsfield -- the nation's business airport, travelers think the SCOTUS ruling gives them permission to carry guns on their flights.

TSA agents are seizing them like crazy as travelers try yo pass through security gates, their pistol resting on top of their underwear.

field negro said...

jody, here in Pistolvania we are not much better, but....anywhere is better than Texas.

"That man in Texas sounded all too eager to go outside and shoot someone. I know people who have had to use guns in self-defense, and they were downright terrified by what they had to do. This man was talking like he was about to go out and shoot deer"

h peyton, "deer" a bunch of "wetbacks" what's the difference?

Yes AI, you can call me the cherry farmer, because there are lots more cherries to pick. Cherries cherries as far as the eyes can see, and yes they are very ripe.

"Seriously. If Jamaica was being invaded and looted by another country, you just could not be so irresponsible to report this in this way."

szechuanpork, that was already done, it was called colonialism ;)

"I guess if they had killed someone the people in the community probably would have participated in a good old fashioned lynching. String them up at the nearest tree, then riddle the bodies up with bullets, and sell their organs as souvenirs"

hennasplace, that's not silly, it sounds like you have been reading your history books.


"This is the same state where the ex-marine went nuts and shot 20 people from the belltower of the University of Texas. This is the same state where a guy crashed into McDonalds and shot 30 people then himself. This is the same state that had the Branch Davidians' last stand. What do you expect?"

No, not Texas, I thought if you lived in a state where you hasd the right to bear arms you wouldn't have any crime? You mean they have gun crimes in Texas? Noooo.

BTW, I heard about that Jacan lady in NY. Myself and some like minded folks have reached out to her family to see what we can do to help.

The Christian Progressive Liberal said...

They may pass all those gun laws in Texas, but I'll tell you one thing; there will be a different standard in how the law is applied.

If you're white, you will be acquitted because your complexion protects you.

Any other ethnicity need not apply for judicial fairness, because you won't get it, and your complexion does not protect you. You can kiss "due process of the law" goodbye and the best you can hope for is that you will be sentenced to a 20-year stretch with possibility of parole, because they like to fry 'em in Texas.

The Frat Boy fried more inmates than all the states in America that have the Death Penalty combined. Think about that.

Wine Dog said...

I need a license to drive my car, to own my dog and to sell real estate, but I don't need a license for my firearms.

I own numerous rifles that have been handed down through the family. I know how to shoot them all, but I have never been required to take any gun safety classes to possess them. As a matter of fact, I looked for one and couldn't find it, so they stay wrapped up safely under lock and key.

What if we could all own guns AFTER we took a comprehensive safety class that involved the proper use and storage (this could reduce accidental discharges and children getting guns improperly stored). The final testing included a psychological profile that kept guys like the whack job in Virginia or even Hinkley for that matter, from acquiring a firearm. Possession without proper permits and you get rung up for hard time.

I don't know, I'm just tossing out a concept...

Constructive Feedback said...

Field-Negro:

If you were a journalist I would be accusing you of "Yellow Journalism" for this foolishness that you have posted. We all know that you are a "Leftist Hack" and thus don't qualify as a journalist.

So let me get this straight. Because this one "White man" with a gun who shot two Black guys who were robbing his neighbor's house using the gun which he owned was not charged with a crime per the discretion of the local prosecutor......BY EXTENSION - all people in America who practice their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to own a gun should feel some guilt?

This is the scenario in the world of "Field-Negro" and his echo chamber.

Man you should consider how ridiculous you sound sometimes.

If your logic holds - the lady who a few years ago ran down her husband in a fit of rage over his infidelity should be a blow against the brilliant people who allowed women to drive.

Simply freaking amazing how low you will go....and still have some of your merry followers agreeing with you.

Maybe in Obama's rebranded "Faith-Based Initiative" (that was long scorned when Evil Bush did it) will offer you some counciling.

annatopia said...

perhaps this is futile, but whenever i see a thread full of blanket statements about texans i really can't help but respond.

first, to jody waaaay upthread. texas has NOT passed a law saying that we can carry our weapons out in the open. in actuality, there is a petition movement going on right now that has about 10K signatures, and they're trying to get a ballot measure put forth to allow for open carry. no law has been passed. that being said, if they manage to get enough sigs to put that on a ballot here, it will pass. *sigh*

field - joe is not a "hero to most folks in texas". i take strong exception to that statement. on the contrary, there are many of us who are appalled at what he did. now look, i know texas has a terrible reputation right now (some of it well deserved) but please man, can you refrain from making blanket statements like that? as mentioned upthread, even the author of the castle bill says this guy should've been prosecuted.

what we have here is a threefold problem. first, i've never agreed that the castle law was a good idea. personally i would like it repealed, but then again i'm more liberal than 90% of texans. second, our injustice system is completely corrupt. go google up texas innocence project if you doubt that statement. and third, the mentality of some texans is a huge issue. the people here are very conservative, even if they're "liberals". most of the repubs here love their guns, as do the independents/libertarians. even many democrats here are gun owners. what i'm saying is the majority of the population strongly believes in personal gun ownership, and they also believe that they have a right to defend themselves with those guns. i suspect that even though good ol' joe wasn't defending anyone - rather, he was shooting thieves in the back - the jury looked at it and said, "hey, that could be me defending my property. of course we're gonna let this guy off."

now, we do have a lot of progressive things happening in texas, but they don't make headlines like this nutbag. for example, did you know that democrats are only 4 seats shy of taking back the texas house (and this is post-delay-redistricting)? did you know that the city of arlington is about to go green by banning plastic bags? did you know that our democratic candidate for senator - rick noriega - is only 4 points down on cornyn in the latest polls? these are all good things that are happening here, but they get no attention because "nutbag shoots robbers" makes for more interesting copy.

now anyway, i'll get off my high texas horse. i really love your blog, field, and have just become a regular reader in the past month or so. i am 100% with you on this NRA series and hope you'll continue to write about gun violence, but it might be nice if you'd devote some time to what you think are the root causes of gun violence. is it the laws? is it the NRA's propoganda? is it trigger happy a-holes like joe? or is it our culture, which is so seeped in violence that by the time we're teenagers, we are nearly desensitised to it?

anyway, just some thoughts brother. keep up the good work.

New Black Woman said...

I read about this yesterday and I was sooo baffled at the reasoning behind acquitting this vigilante.

I can see this case giving the green light to other forms of vigilantism.

Be prepared to hear about more cases of this nature.

Christopher said...

Man you should consider how ridiculous you sound sometimes.

Field may sound "ridiculous" sometimes (he doesn't) but you, (Un)constructive Feedsack, sound ridiculous ALL OF THE TIME.

In fact, you were BORN RIDICULOUS and you will DIE RIDICULOUS.

Unfortunately for you (Un)constructive Feedsack, the BEST PART OF YOU RAN DOWN YOUR MOTHER'S LEG after your father was done with her.

And BTW, it's spelled "COUNSELING" and not "counciling." A used Oxford can be found on eBay for under $3.00. I suggest you BUY ONE AND USE IT.

Jody said...

@annatopia:
Thanks for the correction... my mom told me in the future, I should fact check my sources (she is really funny) I feel ya on the Texas thing... I grew up there and only 8 years ago moved to Philly... I like to tell people that in Texas, when we do things well, we do them really well: Barton Springs, clean rivers to swim in, public beaches, tex-mex food, bar-b-que, Barbara Jordan, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins..... and when we do things badly, we do them really badly: death penalty, this guy Joe, The Schrub.....

WNG said...

@wine dog - at the very LEAST that's what we need to do...but I don't see it happening.

@annatopia - I was just waiting for a Texan to stand up and i think you did it well, being from SC I'm used to blanket statements. Just wanted to say that I'm glad you're in Texas and hope you're active in politics down there - sounds like they need you.

Field,
the 911 operator told dude not to go outside 13 TIMES! 13 TIMES! I honestly cannot get over that. Now this morning he was on GMA saying how he can't go out in public because 'people think I'm that guy on the tape and I'm not'. Hmmm. YES YOU ARE. Stay in your house Dirty Harry. Please.

NSangoma said...

~
If one chooses to be a burglar, stick-up artist, rapist, car-jacker, et alia; then one should have their life insurance paid up.

It does not matter if the home-owner kills the burglar, a neighbor kills the burglar, or the police kills the burglar; that is the risk that the burglar freely chose to take.
`

nyc/caribbean ragazza said...

My issues with this man is that 911 told him to stay in the house. The cops were there. The neighbors weren't home. Did he feel threaten at that particular moment?

I saw him being interviewed right after and he was rather pleased with himself. His actions do not fit the crime.

And if the races were reversed unless the brother was like OJ had a ton of money, he would be under the jail as we speak.

Anonymous said...

WOW Christopher, name calling and a spell check. I think youre ready for the supreme court.
A brilliant retort worthy of a left wingnut. Dont bother with any "argument". Lets not waste time making intelligent points. Lets drop the "no hes not YOU ARE" bomb. Find a misspelled word then squeal like a schoolgirl and find a big hairy man to snuggle with.
WHAT A CLOWN

annatopia said...

jody - glad you read my comment. frankly i am upset about this petition drive. the last thing we need in texas is for folks to have an excuse to carry their guns wide open in public. to me, that's just inviting disaster. and yea, what we do we do well. i so miss molly and ann. if anyone should've outlived the bush administration, it was them. and let's also not forget that while texans may have been dumb enough to elect bush, we don't want him back. i'll bet money he's going to sell that fake cowboy ranch as soon as his term ends. apparently his people are already looking to set him up here in dallas. *ug* on the upside, that increases my chances of running into him and flipping him the bird in person. remind me sometime and i'll tell you about the time i heckled him during a fundraiser when he was guv.

wng: thank you so much for your kind words. yes, i am very active down here, especially in my county party. i'm an old deaniac, and i worked for team obama during the primary. i don't have as much time to be involved as i used to (trying to finish up my college degree right now), but i give what i can and i certainly encourage others to do so. we are trying, friend, and i think we have made amazing progress in the past couple of years. this year i'm really excited about rick noriega. if we can knock out that embarrassment, box turtle cornyn, i will be one happy camper.

peace yall.

fairlane said...

The value a person places on another's life is directly related to the value they place on their own.

TV Set= Human Being.

This is yet another episode, in the continuing saga, of "Poor Whites Against Everyone Else."

Sometimes, I think poor white people have it worse than anyone.

The extent to which they've been duped is beyond fucking belief.

Many of them honestly believe, so much so they'll cap your ass, that their Handlers really do love them.

This, ultimately, has little to do with race.

This is about self-loathing.

If my life has no value, why should your's?

The day America really "Changes" will be the day Poor Whites wake up, and realize they're sitting in the same boat as the "Niggers, Spicks, and Towel Heads."

Until then...

szechuanpork said...

"szechuanpork, that was already done, it was called colonialism ;) " The original inhabitants are credited with developing jerk and I'm sure they spent some time with the other things that grow there. Must have been true quality of life. The addition of Red Stripe and reggae are enhancements to me.

Dragon Horse said...

The people killed were Afro-Latinos from Brazil so he thought they were two local blacks I would imagine. One had a record.

WHat he did was perfectly legal so there was no way even he would be convicted.

If you don't like the law then lobby to have it changed, good luck in Texas though.

There was a man in a suburb of Houston a few years ago, some kids constantly broke into his car and stole his radio.

So he camped out for them with a semiautomatic rifle and lit them up, I believe 2 had to be hospitalized but no one was killed.

100% legal under TExas law.

I'm glad this guy did what he did. I would imagine break and entering is not a crime people commmit lightly in Texas...and I don't want these people on the streets anyway.

Sorry field...I know you feel sorry for the illegal criminals and it is all the white man's fault but I don't, they were more likely to victimize blacks and Hispanics than whites.

The people whose house their were breaking into were VIetnamese.

field negro said...

Annatopia,you are right,thanks for checking me. I of all people should not paint the state with such a broad brush. I have lots of friends from Texas (HTOWN!)So it's all good. I will try and do better next time...

"TRY" :)

classical one said...

Joe Horn was not a poor white, didn't you see video of his neighborhood when the New Black Panthers went down there? IT was a solid middle class area.

Anonymous said...

I am a native born Black Texan. Unless the two slained burglars were retarded that must have known they were in Texas. Texas holds the records of most people executed in the last 50 years and is far in the lead of all the other states in lynching over the past 125 years. However, to be fair quite a few horse thieves, robbers and suspected rapist were lynched not just blacks and Mexicans.

I suggest that robbers, thieves and burglars should pick another state to do their crimes. These crazy-assed gun toting Texans will bust a cap in your ass if they get a chance.

Spook56

Cami B said...

There are pix of the burgulars/victims at:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/guns-burglary-and-racism/2008/07/01/1214677985973.html

I'm pretty sure he had no way of knowing they were illegal hispanics and maybe didn't understand his warnings. They look like average black men. And that alone may not have set well with Horn.

quakerjew said...

Annatopia,
Funny how we Texans are. Are folks from Indiana as proud?
My panties always get in a wad whenever members of the Bush family are described as Texans (hear me christopharisee?). They are no more Texans than I am a Vegas line dancer ('course with these legs, I could make a go).
Texas is far from a monoculture, but the "don't tread on me" independent streak is common, and I love that.
Love from the lone star,
QJ

annatopia said...

hey field, it's all good. as long as you "try" - that's much better than complacency.

quakerjew: yea, let's not forget that we really have connecticut to blame for giving us the shrub. it wasn't just texas - i swear! AFAIC they can all go back to connecticut. ;^)

west coast story said...

If this had been two white guys he wouldn't have shot them and we all know it. Hell, if it had been two white females with big boobs, he would have helped them.

Prodigy-Maestro said...

Not to be an asshole, but if these two guys weren't burglarizing this house in the first place. . . well, you see where I'm going with this...

and aslo, if these two guys weren't illegally in the country in the first place. . . well, you see where I'm going with this...


I sympathize for them, yes- and I don't think horn reported the facts as they were(he's the only witness, mind you)... but i try to look at ALL the facts. . .

Anonymous said...

This is the problem with mankind, always solving problems with violence.
Saddam will not follow us kill thousands of Iraqis. The mentality of good guys vs. bad guys, as long as you deem someone a bad guy violence is acceptable. In movies we all root for the hero and feel nothing is he kills the bad guy. In the Bible I thought it said though shall not kill, I thought Cain was cast out for killing his brother, I thought it states believe in the Creator, he will avenge any injustice brought against the righteous. It's 2008 and governments and people still solve their disagreements with violence it seems so caveman to me with technology and education violence is the only answer.
People believe we need guns for hunting, use a crossbow. Africans stories use to be about stories of animals with a moral statement. Now all of our entertainment involves killing even cartoons, we accept a level of violence as long as we identify a bad guy. And I don't believe if we got rid of all the guns violence would stop, check the Japanese guy who went around stabbing people. Education is the root of today's violence, violence is taught as being acceptable (Civil War)early on. We are taught to accept the founding fathers as great even thought they owned slaves, we about wars and dropping bombs on people as if it is not agianst the Creator's will as we are now being forced to accept homosexuality as if we are racist for believing in the scriptures.

BTW in Nevada you can carry a gun as long as it is not concealed, as is thte way in most western states.

Whitney B. said...

Off topic:

Oh Lawdy, my husband just sent me an article from the Washington Post about the O'Man. Peeps, those folks in Flag City Findlay, OH are scary. If you're interested in seeing how bad it is in the "hearland" go to the Post and search Flag City.

Mr. Field and A.F.,
Thanks for the notes in Patriot Games.

Anyone out there know where Grannystandingfortruth is hiding out these days?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"WOW Christopher, name calling and a spell check. I think youre ready for the supreme court.
A brilliant retort worthy of a left wingnut. Dont bother with any "argument". Lets not waste time making intelligent points. Lets drop the "no hes not YOU ARE" bomb. Find a misspelled word then squeal like a schoolgirl and find a big hairy man to snuggle with.
WHAT A CLOWN"

I didn't like the part about "running down mother's leg when he was finished with her", that sounds sexist and out of place.

Anonymous said...

Prodigy-Maestro said...
"Not to be an asshole, but if these two guys weren't burglarizing this house in the first place. . . well, you see where I'm going with this...

and aslo, if these two guys weren't illegally in the country in the first place. . . well, you see where I'm going with this... "


You know, they could have also came out that house from just raping someone... I'm just saying. Should I still feel for them in such case?

west coast story said...

I'm too lazy to google but does anyone know if Texas has lower crime rates than other states? It would be a crying shame if they went to all that trouble to let people slaughter each other "legally" and still have high crime stats.

NSangoma said...

~
OT and better fare:

Jerk began with the Taino Indians, who lived on Jamaica and used the sweet wood of the allspice tree to cook the meat of local wild pigs. As Europeans planted the island with sugar cane, bananas and coffee, the Taino retreated to the safety of the vast inland forests.

The particular genius of jerk — the play of sweet and smoke, green and wood, spicy and herbal — is credited to the Maroons, Africans who taught the Taino their method of smoking food in pits dug into the earth. The Maroons were brought to Jamaica as slaves, but began escaping in the 1650s, joined the Taino in the forests, and fought British and Spanish dominion over the island. (The words jerk and jerky come from charqui, the Spanish version of the Quechua word charki, meaning dried meat.)

The American writer and anthropologist Zora Neale Hurston chronicled an overnight boar hunt with the Maroons in 1939. “Towards morning we ate our fill of jerk pork,” she wrote. “It is better than our American barbecue. It is hard to imagine anything better than pork the way the Maroons jerk it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/
dining/02jerk.html

`

Christopher said...

I didn't like the part about "running down mother's leg when he was finished with her", that sounds sexist and out of place.

Fool, please. You want me to take you seriously and you can't even give yourself a screen name?

glory said...

it doesn't matter whether the victims were criminals and assumed the risk of their activity. that has nothing to do with what joe horn did. either his actions were criminal or they were not.

what matters is that even accounting for statutory language of the castle doctrine in texas (i googled it), joe horn's actions were illegal because they were outside the law. yet the grand jury didn't indict. this was jury nullification at its most shameful, because the reason for the nullification probably had more to do with the identity of the victims that it had to do with the actions of the accused.

this guy is a vigilante, not a hero. he put himself in the place of cop, court and executioner because he thought he was john wayne in an old western, and his peers rewarded him for it. damn shame.

i am NOT comfortable with people like that owning guns.

Kat said...

I guess with this porker Joe Horn out on the loose, cops will have to start looking for new jobs now. Who needs them anymore?

Lola Gets said...

Isnt this the case where he shot the two men in the back while they were on his lawn?? Only in Texas.

Oh, wait...what with the recent Supreme Court gun ban overturns, scenes like this will be played out in a variety of cities all accross the US. Thanks guys!
:\

L

Anonymous said...

Christopher; WOW another verbal nuclear attack.
"get a screen name"
Youre a regular Dick (haha) Cavett. A true wordsmith. I think everybody knows not to mess with you. Theyre libel to get a "so are you" or the classic "samr to you bur more of it"
Give it up hack!

rain said...

My my, anon 5:59 pm, vicious and angry aren't we? Whats eating you?

field negro said...

nsangoma, the Maroons? I am impressed.

"I'm glad this guy did what he did..."

Of course you are "dragon horse", I would expect no less from you.

hennasplace said...

Hi Field:

Yes, I have been reading my history, some light reading over the summer. Reading, that little annoying habit that I seemed to pick up as a child. Actually, I am currently reading a biography about Ida B. Wells, anti-lynching crusader. She was a fascinating woman and some of her contemporaries called her militant, and for some reason Carter G. Woodson, the father of black history managed not to mention her or her accomplishments to the anti-lynching crusade. She ever criticized the NAACP by saying it was an organization with black bodies and white heads. Who doesn't love a woman who speaks her mind.

Constructive and Anonymous

I do not see the point in killing the two men if they were not armed and were leaving the house. Joe was not imminent danger, and was told by the police not leave his house with the gun. What Joe committed at the very least it's second degree because his mindset seemed to suggest depraved indifference. I was not interested in his neighbor's house or that it was broken into. It's probably not unreasonable to say that he may committed 1st murder because he planned to kill the men. The two men were not running in the direction of Joe's house, so he didn't have reason to shot them. Joe probably had moral obligation to stop the two men, but not with deadly force. The force had to be reasonable.

Now if Joe's neighbor was at gunpoint by the two men, then it is reasonable for him to use his gun. However, this case he was not reasonable and he is a killer. Yes, Joe lives the rest of society and he is dangerous because who is to say that he will not kill again. The man ticking time bomb, and somehow we fail to see it.

Whitney B. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Whitney B. said...

Yikes...we got some kinda war goin' on here, Field? I'm corn-fused. Po' little red headed white gurl.

Some angry brothers and sisters at you. But for Nsangoma. I'm kinda beginning to like that fellow.

Don't worry, I, too, have a potion.

Y'all shouldn't be speaking these angry words, now. Let's calm down.

We regular folks need to call a truce. Mr. Field is just being lawyerly and right. He knows more about he's talking about than us little folks.

Shady_Grady said...

This case has more to do with a bad Texas law being "misinterpreted" due to the race of the shooting victims than it does with gun ownership or the recent SC decision. My understanding is that Texas already allowed home gun ownership so the SC ruling had nothing to do with this case. Horn was not in danger nor was his neighbor in danger.

At the very least he should have been charged with 2nd degree murder, as he was very eager to use deadly force.

When you compare this case with the John White case where the shooting was much more justified and yet Mr. White is facing jail time it's obviously all about race.

Mr. Horn is not the sort of person who should own a gun while Mr. White is. However there's no way to tell that ahead of time. Hindsight is always 20/20.

In both NY and Texas though, if the criminal hadn't been doing what they did, they wouldn't have gotten shot. If you gather up a lynch mob, call someone up to threaten them with violence and show up on their property screaming racial slurs, you might get shot. The same risk applies if you break into someone's home.

Anonymous said...

I don't know why I am wading into this, but here goes......
I live in the greater Houston area, so this thing is big here.

Why does this have to be about race? Why can't it just be one concerned citizen looking out for a neighbor, and their property, and some pure scum career criminals? Law Enforcement did not tell Joe not to go outside, a 911 opertor did. NOT law enforcement, not on the scene, no authority. I don't think I could have done it, but my hat is off to Joe. These guys were credited with something like 300 burglarys. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. Who would you rather have as a neighbor, Joe Horn, or the fine gentlemen who couldn't give a damn about anyone else or their proterty?

glory said...

"Why can't it just be one concerned citizen looking out for a neighbor, and their property, and some pure scum career criminals?"

*****

Because that concerned citizen went as far as the law authorized him to act by calling the authorities. At that point his job was done. Every action he did beyond that was criminal. Let the cops deal with the criminals. This isn't about sympathy for criminals, this is about correcting people who take authority for the law when they should not do so. It's not about who you want as a neighbor, it's about who this society has authorized to administer the law - actual police officers, not Joe Blow.

Shady_Grady said...

"Who would you rather have as a neighbor, Joe Horn, or the fine gentlemen who couldn't give a damn about anyone else or their proterty?"

As was mentioned even the author of the law did not think it was properly applied in this case. I am not familiar with the finer points of Texas law but in Michigan you are not allowed to use deadly force to defend property.

He killed two people who did not pose a threat to him. Even in Texas the proscribed penalty for burglary is not death.

Anonymous said...

Granted, the police should have been able to handle it, BUT THEY WEREN'T THERE!!!!! Joe was trying to get them there, and the scumbags were getting away. That's when he went outside, and told them to stop.

So what if the author of the law wasn't in agreement??? The judge was. That's why he is the judge...

ava said...

Field,

I am a woman who lives alone who had to go away on business for a couple of weeks and when I returned my home had been robbed. Had I been there when the guys broke in, I probably would not be here commenting on this blog.

I have mixed feelings about this matter. Those two guys... had they gotten away with the burglary of his neighbor's house..they probably would have come back for the other mans home. I dont know how sorry I feel for these guys.

Also, I had a sister who had a gun put in her face at an ATM. She was a grad school student at that time. And my mothers home is in a bad neighborhood and just a couple of weeks ago, these guys were shooting. One of the bullets entered my mothers home and she was sitting at the table eating dinner at the time. Luckily she is okay.

I know that there are a lot of good black men out there but we have a lot in our race who are outright destructive.

ava said...

West Coast Story said:
If this had been two white guys he wouldn't have shot them and we all know it. Hell, if it had been two white females with big boobs, he would have helped them.

ava's reply:

It does not matter if these guys were black or not, they should not been in someone else's home. I kind of think that they got what they deserve.

Angie-Nuvision said...

Field, I work in Pasadena, TX. Well, at least for now... I turned in my resignation the other day.
When this incident occured, I was outraged. However, I was one of the few in my office who felt like what this man did was a crime.
It baffled me that people, who have a college education, refused to use their logic to determine that this man broke the law. Tthat he unjustifiably murdered two men...
Honestly, thinking about this story too long makes my head hurt. It's just sad that this man did not have to face charges, a conviction, and prison time for murder.
I'm glad that I'm getting the heck up out of Pasadena for more reasons than one. and this is one of the reasons...
Peace,
A

J said...

Anonymous said: Granted, the police should have been able to handle it, BUT THEY WEREN'T THERE!!!!!

Apparently you don't have all the facts. An undercover police officer was on the seen but hid in his car for fear that Joe Horn would think him an accomplice and open fire. Chew on that one for a sec. The police officer thought Horn (armed and now dangerous) would open fire on him.

Anonymous said: So what if the author of the law wasn't in agreement??? The judge was. That's why he is the judge...

My other problem with your comments is that you apparently don't concern yourself with the rule of law. A GRAND JURY determined Joe Horn was not criminally at fault. There is no judge present at a grand jury. Only the jurors and the prosecutor. There it is determined whether or not sufficient evidence exists to go to trial. Beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't even apply in a grand jury. Only whether there is sufficient evidence that a crime was committed. According to the Castle Doctrine, Joe Horn is not covered by immunity because his property was not at risk nor was his person. I've never felt threatened in my life by two men running away from me while I hold a gun. NEVER. Shooting someone in the back has and always will be an act of cowardice at the very least. As for the criminals, it seems we can now justify all of our actions by pointing the finger to the next man. It may be true they were up to no good but neither was Joe Horn. Those men deserved justice not vigilantism. That is why ours taxes pay for public safety.

Anonymous said...

A NIGGER who quotes the KIKE Howard Zinn...Further proof of how the NIGGER is just the tool of the JEW.

NIGGERS EAT SHIT...because they're cannibals!

Whitney B. said...

Lawd Field,

That last anony scares the shit out of me. Do you thin Trash Dumbah is onto your site?

Plantsmantx said...

"I'm pretty sure he had no way of knowing they were illegal hispanics and maybe didn't understand his warnings. They look like average black men. And that alone may not have set well with Horn."

He didn't give them a chance to "understand his warnings" Listen to the recording. You can hear his gun go off about a second after he yelled at them. Also listen to the recording to hear how he was almost gleeful at the prospect of going outside to kill them. Sick bastard.

ben tillman said...

"'Move and you're dead'. Sorry Joe, I don't think they spoke English."

Whose fault was that? Invading another country to commit crimes there is a risky business. They rolled the dice and lost.

mainestategop said...

Uh... Excuse me but those two crooks were breaking and entering and violating the law. Joe Horn was right to shoot them. Here in this country we have somthing called property rights and the right to defend property even with lethal force.

I also want to point out that gun control has lead to an increase of crime especially in minority communities. The original gun control laws they had 100 years ago were meant for blacks. The democrats said it was to protect the Klan from their intended victims. Hitler and Stalin also disarmed their people and that's why they were able to commit genocide in their respectable countries.

Oh BTW, Nazi is an acronym for national SOCIALIST party. Get it? Socialist? Also many of the original founders of the KKK were socialists.

But... Apperantly none of you want us to own property or have safety in the community so we have communists like yourself dictating what we can or can't do while armed criminals can get away with anything including murder. Gun control only disarms law abiding citizens. Criminals will get their guns no matter what the law says.

Maybe they should change the name of this to house negro. I got a few black brothers I know who could think of some better names but I wont repeat it since im a white guy and because im modest.

THC1138 said...

If John White had lived in a state with deadly force laws like Texas instead of Liberal Island, he'd be on the cover of NRA Magazine. But no, everyone wants to cry racism and fall into group-think instead of looking at the real issue. NY courts have thrown many like White under the bus, regardless of race.

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