Thursday, February 26, 2009

Spare the rod......


Tonight I am blogging about two stories which are worlds apart in geography and what actually happened, but they are connected and similar in many ways.

I will start with poor Alma Harding of Devon, England, all she did was lay a royal smack down with a church program on some punk who was vandalising city and church property. The lady, as the story goes, had spent countless hours of her time and her own money to spruce up the area in question with flowers and hanging baskets, and these little punks saw fit to play target practice with soccer balls on it. The woman was returning home from church and she must have remembered that if she "spared the rod she would spoil the child". So she let the little punks have it with the church program. And for this the poor woman was charged and convicted of assaulting the little thugs.

Now my next story takes place right here in Killadelphia, Pistolvania, and of course it involves an incident far more tragic. In the middle of the day on a West Killadelphia street, a 16 year old boy walked up to a 12 year old boy while he was sitting in his mother's car and pumped 5 rounds into the child. This happened right across the street from a day care while people (including the victims own mother who was picking up his 3 year old sister) were picking up their children. This little thug was brazen and heartless, and he is typical of the urban predators that we are spawning here on our mean streets. If you thought Philly was known for only having the best cheese steaks you would be wrong. Nope, Philly is known for having the most violent juveniles in the country, and the stories you hear everyday around here justifies the label.

"...Police said the victim was sitting in the front passenger seat of his mother’s car, while she picked up his sister, when an unknown shooter walked up and fired five rounds into the vehicle about 3:30, police said. The youth was struck in the left hand and chest. Moments later, his mother ran after the gunman, who tucked the gun in his waistband, and fled on 60th Street, police said. She lost track of him about a block away, and ran inside a daycare center for help. “The bloodcurdling screams of the mother...I will never forget it,” said Monica Mason, who was inside the center when she heard the gunshots and screams.."

Yes folks this is how we are living here in Killadelphia. (Digression alert!) So field how are these two stories connected? I will tell you how: The little animal that shot the young man is still on the run, and any day now you will hear his mama and all his peeps tell you what a good kid he was. You will hear how he used to help old ladies across the street, and how he was just a neighborhood kid who used to just hang out and play basketball blah blah blah. But what you won't hear is that when he was running wild in that neighborhood if anyone dared to grab his little ass and try to tell him right from wrong his mama would be the first one in line to slap a law suit on them or call the po po and scream child abuse. Like the little punks in England, these punks in Philly are out of control, and there is no one like that good church lady to let them have it with a rolled up church program, or anything else for that matter.

So that's how these two stories are connected; little punks running wild and instead of society putting their asses in check, we are charging church ladies in England with assault. I don't know about society in general, but I know that in the black community we need to just declare open season on ass whopping little juvenile delinquents. And that means anybody can whop anybody else's child. If the little crumb snatcher is acting up, you lay a good old fashion beat down on his ass. We will trust your judgement no questions asked. Pookey, why was that strange man beating you with his belt? He caught me tagging Ms. Chen's store mama. Well turn your little ass over so that I can tear it up again.

125 comments:

Jody said...

Problem is Field, little Pookey got a gun. And he will shoot you and anyone else he thinks is disrespecting his ass.

J said...

That's what's up!

Little bad ass children thinking they've lived a life because they've had it hard. Nothing harder than cold cinder block walls in the penitentiary or worse a pine box.

Like Devo said: Whip it! Whip it good!

kathleenmaher said...

You're maybe half-right. The problem is those little thugs that get away with (so sick) murder grow up. And I really don't want my neighbor popping my kid--or even just beating him up--for making too much noise.
Parents must stay on their kids, 20 years minimum.

brotherkomrade said...

An ass beating from the neighbor lady down the hall on my kids would get approval from me if they pull some shit while I'm not around. They'll thank her for it later. So the old bird in the UK got a raw deal as far as I'm concerned.

browngrl77 said...

The problem is there are no daddies in the home, so you got momma who allows her son to do whatever the hell he wants, just because he can grow hair in places other than his head...

Lola Gets said...

Ok, Im a little afraid of beating random kids in the street...so Imma just do what I usually do...call the cops!

Yeah, they'll vandalize my property again, but at least I wont have to worry about being hurt physically...at least, I hope not.

L

browngrl77 said...

I ride the el with the spawns of pookie and ray ray, I watch them push by the old ladies unfortunate to have a late doctor's appointment, you can't help but see the defeat in their eyes. They survived the great depression at least 3 wars and the election of a black president.....and they may just get killed while stepping on Septa after 3pm ....SMH

field negro said...

"Problem is Field, little Pookey got a gun. And he will shoot you and anyone else he thinks is disrespecting his ass."


Hmmm, good point jody. Folks be careful,pookey might have a gun. :(

field negro said...

"The problem is there are no daddies in the home, so you got momma who allows her son to do whatever the hell he wants, just because he can grow hair in places other than his head..."

co-sign

Brian said...

Field,
That is that way it worked in my neighborhood when I was a kid. You would get a whopin' from the nearest adult and then before you made it home word had already made it back to mom and dad. Then the real whopin' began. I haven’t had the need to whop’ any of my kids friends...yet, but I already have the reputation as the mean dad, and that is the way I like it.

Ebony.Reid said...

Did the boy die?

rainywalker said...

Field I'm with you on this and the people need to take back their cities. Easier said than done. We lost two last week on the north side and a 18 year old beat a homeless man to death with a ball bat. Now the governor of Texas wants to put the military on the the border with Mexico.

molly said...

Hey!

My name is Irina, and I am helping my friend with the website AFaithfulSoldier.com:
http://www.afaithfulsoldier.com

The site just went up, honoring everyone in the US military all around the world. Dog tags are sold on it, of which 15% of all proceeds goes to charity (Soldier’s Angels) which helps injured soldiers or families of those that lost their lives in the military. Soldier's Angels will be issuing a national press release for AFaithfulSoldier, so that will be great, but we need all the help we can get! The tags could be personalized with either your name or someone you know in the military and would make great gifts with great respect. I’m going out on a limb here, but I’m hoping you can perhaps add a link or make a minor mention somewhere in your blog about my friend’s site. I think it’s a great idea and trying to help where I can. Also, she’s working on getting a links page up on her site, so if you would link to Afaithfulsoldier.com, she will add your link once that page is up. As you know, reciprocal linking benefits both of us by raising our search rankings and generating more traffic to both of our sites.

It would be greatly appreciated, and if not, I can understand ;)

If you do decide to post the link, let me know the URL of the page that it's on, and I will make sure that your link gets posted on her site once the page is up!

Please email me @ afaithfulsoldier(at) gmail.com

Thank you very much,

Irina

aj said...

That's how it worked back in the day when we trusted one another to watch and correct our children. Now some of these "parents" will straight up act a fool when you try to correct their spawns. Hell I put em in check anyhow - I'm sick of bad ass kids running our society. It's like up is down, left is right. We are the adults yet we've allowed these kids to get completely out of control to the point where we are afraid of them. Back in my day the kids feared the parents - which is why we did not dare pull some of the nonsense going on today.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

It takes a village to raise a kid. There is truth in that proverb. When I was a kid that is the way it was but...

Whelp, like a few of the prior post on this topic, folks nowadays don't want you whipping their kid. Whoever, came up with that "time out" is the main person who in my book should be first in line for a good ole fashion azz whipping.

I had a girlfriend, her son did something really bad. When she found out, she whipped his behind real good. Whelp, he called child protective services on her and they arrested her. Whelp, when she went to court this is what she told the judge. "Yes, I whipped his azz, because he did this and that. Your Honor, I whipped him real good too to keep the police or someone else from killing him later on in life." The judge dismissed the case.

Now, I'm sure there are a lot of older people who post on this blog whose parents tore their tail up when they did something wrong, and there was no such thing as "time out" back in the day. The only "time out" was when your parents took a break from tearing that behind up.

Nevertheless, you probably, mumbled under your breath many days how much you hated your parents back then and how mean you thought they were. Even though you knew what you did was wrong in the first place and you deserved that whipping. Yup, your parents were the meanest people on earth back then. And ole Mrs. Henry down the street or around the corner, you was mad at her too. Because she had already got a little piece of that behind before you got home. And then she had the nerve to call your parents and snitch on you, so you could get another whipping when you got home.

Later on when you got off punishment, you'd get with ya friends and talk about how mean your parents was and how you couldn't stand ole Mrs. Henry with her nosey self for getting you in trouble. Knowing all the time that you had did something wrong and what you really was upset about is that you got caught and winded up getting a whipping.

However, Mrs. Henry and your parents was the cause of you not winding up in the morgue or prison, which you would come into the knowledge of when you became an adult yourself. That's if you had a lick of good sense. Your love and appreciation for those people would grow and blossom later on into very warm feelings and respect for the things they taught you in life. The lessons they taught you in life would stay with you. Yup, and the whippings you got from them would develop into stories you'd laugh about with your friends when taking a trip down memory lane and, also, later tell your kids and grandkids about.

Those days are long gone, because folks nowadays think that "time out" is the answer. Now this is the way it used be, "Train [teach] a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it." and ""He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him." But some folks nowadays think that is a little too old fashion for them or on the borderline of being barbaric. Yup, but it'll save you from sorrow later on down the road. Children are like a garden, you have to nurture them if you want them to blossom into beautiful flowers.

Jody said...

Granny,
What you said speaks more about the fact that these kids knew that not only did their parents care about them, but the whole neighborhood did too. To me, that is the crux of the problem. Too many of these kids grow up thinking they don't matter and no one cares about them, they don't learn to care about themselves or others.

And with all due respect, and I mean that, I think using violence only teaches kids that using violence is they way to solve their problems, or deal with their anger.

I proudly raised my two sons without ever raising a hand to them. I also made sure they knew they mattered and they were loved, not just by me, but by lots of other people in their lives. THAT is why they are not thugs, not because they got a beat down. And,yes, there was discipline, just not violence.

And just in case (cuz I have heard this before) this is not a "white thing." Obama himself has said in interviews that he and Michelle are raising their girls without spanking them.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Part of the problem is that some of the mommas are too busy running the streets trying to find a husband and got it backwards. It's HE who finds a wife finds a good thing, not SHE who finds a husband finds a good thing.

Another problem is some haven't learned the art of saying "NO" and meaning it. Meaning what you say, when you say it, and sticking to it. Put the fear of even asking you again and wearing you down to get you to change your mind in them.

In addition, stop trying to be their friend, your their parent, it's a difference. You can be their best friend later on when their grown and have children of their own.

Check out people's parents before you let your kids go hang out at their friend's houses. You'd be surprise how much corruption a child can learn at their friend's house if their parents don't have the same values as you do.

Get involved with their school and participate in the activities for children and parents. Take time out to participate in PTA meetings, parent and teachers conferences, establish a relationship with their teacher. Visit the schools unannounced sometimes, in other words visit their school as much as you can.

Do stuff with your kids. Talk to them and with them, not at them. BTW, kids have problems too, because peer pressure nowadays is different than is was back in the day. You'd be surprised how many children are stressed out on a daily basis.

classical one said...

What we really need is a return to TWO parent households; because, the term "illegitimate" is a properly descriptive one. Has it become so hard for people to put thought into having kids and making a commitment? No one will have to beat your kid when you AND your spouse are doing your job. And what of men who abandon their children? We don't just need scorn for that, but harsh fines, social ostracism, and jail time. You remember the English debtor prisons? We need dead beat dad prisons.

Black Diaspora said...

@Granny: Those days are long gone, because folks nowadays think that "time out" is the answer.

Granny my old job required that I maintain a desk where the public could approach me directly.

Children were allowed as well.

One day this woman approached me with a little six year old boy in tow. Immediately he proceeded to hop on my desk, and began to throw things around while she whined, "Time out, Johnny! Time out, Johnny!"

Needless to say little Johnny continued his assault upon my desk, while she did nothing (not even pick him up, and physically remove him), but whined again and again, "Time out, Johnny!"

I wanted to say, "Time's up, Johnny," and give him the time of his life with my belt.

But, alas, that would have led to my firing and a law suit to boot.

What we have in our society are delinquent parents having delinquent children.

Parenting isn't for everybody. Some people are just not cut out for it.

And I've always said: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

And that goes for having kids, rearing them, as well as other things in life we feel we're entitled to do, just because we have the wherewithal to make it happen.

Black Diaspora said...

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Granny, your Five Steps to Good Parenting are "right on."

New parents need to have them stamped on their foreheads where they can be seen at least twice a day, or more often, provided they're maintaining a good hygienic program.

Minnie said...

I work with adolescents and when I speak with the parents of these children I understand why they act the way they do. Some of these parents aren't fit to care for a turtle.

Today one of the students threatened to put a bullet in the head of one of the advisors for dismissing her from the program. He brushed it off but I will be showing him this story.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Jody:

There are a lot of people that feel like you do. I have a few friends that felt like that. Matter a fact, a couple of my friends who felt like that, when their children grewed up, turned around and jumped on them. Not saying that this is what will happen in your case, or for all people who think like that this is what will happen.

However, it's other ingredients missing in the home and environment that causes young men to become thugs. For example, some of them have parents who are strung out on drugs, which messed their minds up and extreme poverty has a lot to do with it as well. It's whole lot more that causes them to become thugs.

My children and grandchildren turned out to be pretty decent and alright. None of them are thugs or criminals or ever thought about being one. My grandchildren are very mannerable, intelligent,and pretty good kids. BTW, they speak very proper, but their granny has a southern accent. Whelp, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. (smiling and winking)

Therefore, I disagree with it makes them thugs, because thugs are lacking love and role models in the home. That's part of the ingredients that is missing.

Minnie:

LOL! The turtle part was funny.

Black diaspora:

Oh, I've witnessed quite a few of those "Time out" moms and kids myself. I've witness one tear the bathroom sink off a wall before. Did his mother chastise him? Nope! He just had himself a good ole time jumping off the sink.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

classical one:

I know a lot of single moms that have raised some pretty decent kids. Although, it would be nice if folks went back to a two parent home. However, not all homes with single parents, kids turned out to be wild and reckless and thugs. There are many that turned out to be just like President Obama.

Bob said...

Field, it's something that's changed since I was kid, & maybe with you, too. In my day, in my town, half of the parents were my proxy parents. They weren't supposed to whomp me. But one lady used to call my mom when I was seen playing near the railroad tracks (I thought my mom was psychic). We were chased away from construction sites, yelled at for sneaking smokes, Lord help you if you were caught stealing anything from the corner store. Of course, it didn't stop us, but it made us think twice. It was as simple as people feeling some responsibility for each other's children, & it crossed boundaries of ethnicity & income. It was the old neighborhood way. Probably not much can done about 16 year old sociopath with a gun, but what's wrong with stopping punk behavior?

classical one said...

Granny,

There are indeed women who have made it as successful single mothers, but are they the norm? The national poverty rate for single mothers is 36% but only 6% for all other american families. In my own opinion, the presence of a loving father in the home is a must: especially for a young boy who often finds the wrong father figures on the street.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Off topic

Grinder:

Is it cold up your way? You came across my mind the other day when I stepped outside and the cold air hit me. I remember you telling me that you lived in Washington. I stayed in Washington for a month once visiting some friends of mine and remembered how cold it was up that way. I nearly turned into an ice sculpture it was so cold in Washington.

Chris said...

Violence begets violence. Period. It doesn't matter the age, beating someone into submission doesn't work. There's no reasoning behind it, and the person receiving it doesn't understand WHY they're being hit. They just understand that they are.

Kids may be out of control, but beating htem doesn't solve anything. It just continues the cycle of violence.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Classical:

Yes and no.

Yes, they had to be normal to raise normal kids. No, they might not be what is normal on a numbers rating of a scale of statistics, but I think those that do a good job of parenting deserve a little credit and that's why I said it.

However, since we on this subject, men need to get it together, stop being playas, womanizers, whoremongers, stop playing rabbit, and stop lying to females just to get underneath their dresses. That would help eliminate the illegitimate problem. Because these women can't make babies by themselves, it takes a "the s word" donor.

texascowgirl said...

I'm wary of putting my hands on young teenaged males since I'm female and only 5'3". So how about tazers or cattle prods? Or a mild pepper spray? Or bee bee guns? That would fix the little bastards.

Bullet said...

this is sad, both so young.

I Bullet am sorry

nyc/caribbean ragazza said...

Why kill a 12 year old, a seventh grader?!

I assume the 16 year old does whatever he wants since everyone at home is scared of him or maybe they are living off his revenue from the streets.

field negro said...

The young man is in very critical condition, but still alive the last time I checked.

Yes, the shooter was in the drug game. But I don't want to speculate why he shot the other young man.

"Field, it's something that's changed since I was kid, & maybe with you, too. In my day, in my town, half of the parents were my proxy parents. They weren't supposed to whomp me. But one lady used to call my mom when I was seen playing near the railroad tracks (I thought my mom was psychic). We were chased away from construction sites, yelled at for sneaking smokes, Lord help you if you were caught stealing anything from the corner store"

Bob, I was one of those fortunate kids to have both parents at home. All it took was a look from pops. I honestly don't remember getting whopped, and I don't think my sister did either. Not that I didn't deserve it sometimes, but I lucked out.

molly,(Irina) I will check out your site and link up with you. As you can tell from my blog roll,I have no problem with linking with folks.

Mrs. C said...

Like Jody, my husband and I raised our two sons with never a need to raise a hand. But we absloutely had to instill a sense of guilt and shame. The bottom line? When you have done something WRONG, you should have a resounding sense of being out of sync with the larger community. My kids are normal; they have felt both shame and guilt. And they are strong, responsible and respectful young men of 34 and 22.

Now, you may want to lay that to the fact that my two did have their daddy in the house. And I will not deny the value of my strong, whole family. But I also must say that out here in white suburbia, when the freak-show criminal minors are called on the carpet, it IS their fathers who come charging into the police station/principal's office, little woman in tow, to scream abrogation of their poor widdle punk's rights. An azzhole child comes from azzhole parenting comes from a society that pulled back from getting involved in raising them all up with a strong sense of the ways and means of citizenship.

Karen said...

Bob, it was like that here, too. I was a hellion and had the thumbs of many moms on me. It's like that now to some extent, at least on our little dead-end here, and the kids on our street are not in ideal situations. We just look out for each other, single parent families, couples, whatever; and we report back to the other moms and dads and I think what it does, too, is make the parents accountable to someone.

Standards are set too low in our culture, and then again, you have parents who haven't grown up in many cases. And to raise boys into men, you have to be acclimated to adulthood immediately to guide them through transtions.

Boys need to feel needed and necessary, they need hard, exhausting work, and they need to be/feel honored. You can see it in stories like this, the shadow-side of it. It's tragically depressing because it's really such a simple remedy to many troubles if a parent or parent-figure would take the time early on.

Christopher said...

On a happier note, Obama's AG, Eric Holder, announced there will be no more raids of medical marijuana clubs.

This is a sharp departure from the policies of the Bush junta.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe I finally agree with Field.........

Anonymous said...

No whining and crying today???? Must be Friday haha....Great post
***************************
I can't believe I finally agree with Field.........
****************Ditto

maria said...

why are you shading the story this way? the 12-year-old was believed to be the intended victim. he has previous arrests for drugs.

pinning it all on the shooter being loose seems like 1/10th of the story.

sharon in ct said...

I'm not a parent, but I was a child once. I have to agree with you 110% on this. I grew up in one of those little neighborhoods where a kid on foot or on a bicycle couldn't make one wrong move without it getting back home at the speed of sound. The pendulum has swung far too far in the other direction. Yes, there is such a thing as child abuse, but that's not what most parents, or adults, practice.

Frank Drackman said...

and ya'll still wonderin why Barak sends his kids to a segregated private school? Boy ain't crazy.

Rudy said...

The 16 year old pumped five rounds into a 12 year old? What the hell did the 12 year old do to warrant that?

I hate to join the chorus of talking heads, but maybe there is a crisis in the "black community."

My hometown of Baltimore (80 miles down the road from Philadelphia) has 36 murders this year.

ch555x said...

Reminds me of the Good Times episode ("Michael the Warlord"). During the episode, a parent w/ the neighborhood watch makes an analogy about a solution for the gangs: a book smashing a peanut! I'm not advocating violence, but what else is there?

Kudos to the English churchlady for laying a smackdown.

HJ said...

Long time reader and fan, infrequent commenter...I have to stand with those who side with firm, non-hitting parenting. I was raised and never hit and am a decent person, and I have never hit my kids and they are good kids. There are many, many ways of teaching a child limits and how the world works without laying a hand on them. I'll agree that time outs in their current incarnation of mommy whining and begging are ineffective, but that's because of mommy, not because of the concept. Though I've never laid a hand on my kids, they know when I get a certain look, a certain tone, that whatever it is will be stopped, or finished. This comes from being there ON them, gently but firmly, from day one. Going to them and stopping the behavior gently but firmly EVERY TIME and helping them do (or stop) whatever it is, IS the lesson. They learn I mean what I say, and whatever it is is going to happen one way or another...and as they get older, they don't need me to physically help them as much anymore. Firm, serious, but gentle parenting can really, really work. I think in the "old days" the thing that worked was that people were engaged, involved, and CARED....not that they were whipping kids azzes regularly. It was the connection, that the parents were involved in their kids lives and not just orchestrating playdates and soccer tournaments and worrying about "me time" for themselves. It was accepting that your perfect little angel was not always perfect and being willing to teach your kid about being responsible for themselves, instead of blaming someone else for what they did. Being engaged and involved takes a lot of energy and effort, which is unfortunately something that many parents aren't willing to do these days.

chenna said...

The 16-year-old was probably spanked at home so...not so sure a** whooping as you say is the answer. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it's not.

Anonymous said...

best post to date

Anonymous said...

Seems to me we should steal a page from Islamic Law (sans all the appendage chopping and stoning stuff) and institute neighborhood courts for small time offenses such as vandalism and petty misbehavior.

When I was in elementary school, they still believed in corporal punishment. In second grade I got into a fight with another kid. The principal walked both of us to his office by the scruff of the neck, and first gave us a stern talking to...

Followed by dragging us in front of the class, and a couple of whacks across the rear from the "Peacemaker".

This was before Integration, and it was a old brick school which had originally been established in the 1870's. The local parents had put together the money to build a 6 classroom brick school, which still stands (with considerable expansion and updating) and is still used as a county elementary school today.

The worst case of vandalism I recall was someone sticking gum on the bottom of a desk. Our desks were probably 20 years old - and other than ink or crayon marks were free of carved in names or whatever.

7th Grade, I went to a shiny new integrated school. Within the first month some kids had destroyed one of the bathrooms by flushing cherry bombs down the toilets, within the first semester another group had ripped the water coolers off the wall. There were scribblings on every bathroom wall and desk.

Now - this also coincided with the elimination of corporal punishment in schools.

Maybe it's time we start thinking a little about what they do in Singapore with minor miscreants...

Might save us a whole bunch of money on prisons later.

DuchessDee said...

Wow. This has hit many nerves.

I pray that this young man pulls through. Yesterday, I say a 52yr white male teacher arrested for telling a black male student "I will kill you." We all know that the young thug was out of line for the teacher to say this. But I am telling EVERYONE your life can change or even be destroyed at a blink of an eye with a couple of words. Arresting first and asking questions later is out of control.

DuchessDee said...

Sad to say, I bet the the 12 yr had a 29yr old mother. Raising herself and her children. We all know her son was going down the same path as his father who probably is in jail or dead.

Hope I am wrong.

browngrl77 said...

Back in the day your neighbors put text messaging to shame ! I STILL am trying to figure out how my parents found out about that little house party I had. They won't tell me....I am 31yrs old SMH...

Ziggy Za. said...

It's really sad when I can't be optimistic and say that things will get better. Bodymore is no better, trust and believe. To make it worse...we've got a map online where you can actually look at the homicides for this year and as far back as 2007! The problem here in B-More are these "gangs", and they're grabbing all the little ones up before they can even develop their own individuality. We've got 8 year olds recruiting little Mike to be a Blood...during school hours. Shame.

Ziggy Za. said...

Oh! If you'd like to check out the map I mentioned, here's the link:

http://essentials.baltimoresun.com/micro_sun/homicides/index.php?range=2009&district=all&zipcode=all&age=all&gender=all&race=all&cause=all&article=all&show_results=Show+Results

Also, could you let me know if philly or any other cities have maps like these? I've been trying to find out for a while now with no luck.

Monroe Anderson said...

Sorry, Field. You are way wrong on this one. The jails are filled with men--and boys--who got their asses whipped on regularly. Rather than learning reasoning and self-control, they learned that physical abuse is the way to control or address problems.

And, isn't it strange that parents feel free to beat up--whip--their children while they're little but stop as soon as they get big enough to make it a fair fight?

RisingTide said...

granny,
maybe the folks you were around were GOOD with the corporal punishment. My dad got whupped by his, every time he came home with a bad report card -- which was every time. He HID those bruises, when he went to gym class. And there were ALWAYS bruises.

He don't laugh about none of that.

(he does laugh about some of what he got when he did deserve it, like using a firehose on the neighborhood bakery).

Keep your neighbors, and them all well.

Me? If you had to ask me a punishment? No dinner for you! And if you KEEP making a fuss, no breakfast neither. Something for a kid to think about, if they won't listen to a timeout (which is probably best used when they've gotten too emotional to use better judgement, not all the time)

Anonymous said...

That is so fucking sad. Everytime I hear things like this, I cry a little. It makes me want to take my five-year-old and move to Des Moines, Iowa or somewhere.

brohammas said...

Mr. Field, you only scratched the surface of how Philthy does it's business. I just spent all day in Judge Lerner's courtroom to see if a kid I've been working with is going to be tried as an adult. He just turned 16 two months ago.
Kid's never been in trouble but Momma is all about "I told him not to hang with those guys but he aint listen" rather than actually taking control of a kid.
Kid didn't do it, all the other kids know who did but they "aint snitches".
Bad enough a kid's gotta grow up with no Daddy and a non attendant Mom, but his cousins, friends, and the system are ready to send him up the river for being associated with the wrong crowd (who is family).
When I was growing up guilty by association led to a parental smackdown, not 20-30 in the pen.

uptownsteve said...

We are seeing the culmination of 3 generations of undisciplined, unsocialized in many case uncivilized children producing children in the inner city.

People are asking "where dey daddies".

Daddy was probably was probably 15 when they were born and is now dead, in jail or the walking dead.

One thing I notice when you go into the inner city today is that you don't see any men.

You see women children and boys.

By the time they hit their early twenties they are in the justice system or in the ground.

I'm 49 and grew up in the inner city.

Bronx, NYC to be specific, a tough lower to working class neighborhood.

Those of us who made it out had strong male figures in the home who made us accountable for our actions.

The ones who didn't were allowed to do whatever they wanted at a very early age and never learned responsibility and accountability.

All the platitudes in the world aren't going to fix the problems of the inner city.

You can't preach responsibility to someone with whom this is a foreign concept.

Nothing short of a Marshall plan is needed.

Swiff said...

The Rethugs are having a ball at their Krazy Konservative Konvention. Check it out -

"Michael Steele! You be da man! You be da man," - Michelle Bachmann.

Ha! She sounds like black peoples!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but I disagree with you on this one, Field.

You do know that most children in America are still spanked, right? Yet somehow that hasn't helped us, especially in the black community.

You can beat your child til the white meat shows, but if you aren't PARENTING, it doesn't do any good. What good would it have done to beat that 16 year old when he probably doesn't know his daddy, his mama is probably in the club from Friday to Sunday, leaving him alone to roam the streets, and nobody gives a damn whether he makes something of his life or not?

I don't believe our children NEED beatings. They need love, protection, guidance, disciplin, and attention. They need to know that someone cares and is holding them accountable for their behavior.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, Field. You are way wrong on this one. The jails are filled with men--and boys--who got their asses whipped on regularly.

__________________________

Thank you! It blows my mind that people seem to overlook the fact that the vast majority of black people beat their kids already. How has that helped?

I tell you what...we black folks love the illusion of control. We beat our chests about the ass-whoopins we put on our kids, but our communities are in shambles.

Anecdotes are great, but for every child who got beat and turned out great, I can show you a child who wasn't hit who turned out great (myself included). We need to PARENT. Spanking may be included in that, but IT'S NOT THE ANSWER TO ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS!

Put down your belts and pick up a parenting book. Learn about child development and behavior. Treat your child like a human being with feelings and motivations. Learn their personalities and cultivate the good things and channel any negative energy into activities that will keep them busy. Read to them. Pray with them. Talk to them. Be stern and make them respect you, and most of all, be consistent. Stop trying to be their friend and be their PARENT. THAT is how you raise a productive child.

Rudy said...

"You can't preach responsibility to someone with whom this is a foreign concept."

Uptownsteve,

That my gripe with Cosby et al and their rants. When he gave his diatribe, how many of the people he was scolding in attendance. The people in the audience appeared to be middle class black folks who know the formula of success.

Cosby needs to take his message to mean street corners of West Baltimore, North Philly, etc.

Anything else is just posturing.

uptownsteve said...

Rudy,

That's exactly it.

Same with Obama's responsibility speeches.

If you want to get a message through to 13 to 24 year old inner city black males you don't go to a middle class black church or on Meet the Fuckin Press.

If you are serious about affecting the lives of inner city youth you have to go into the 'hood and get in their faces like Concerned Men's Alliance and other grassroots groups.

I know that wasn't his intention but all Cosby did was bring smiles to the faces of white rightwingers who don't give two craps about black people or the hood.

They're just tired of listening to "race talk".

How many of the righties said Cosby was a "liberal who was mugged by reality"?

Faith said...

And just in case (cuz I have heard this before) this is not a "white thing." Obama himself has said in interviews that he and Michelle are raising their girls without spanking them.

Jody, you're right. Spanking or not spanking is not really related to race but to class. Studies have been done that show that class is much bigger factor on how parents discipline their children than race. Middle class black and white parents are more likely to discipline their children differently that lower or working class blacks and whites. Thus, I suspect the reason why the Obamas do not spank their children is because they're upper class.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about spanking. My mother told me stories about get spanked by my grandmother and grandfather and also how kids in the neighborhood were raised by "proxy parents." My sisters and I also got beatings (although I only remember getting beat once...I was a really good kid). We all turned out ok. The idea of "proxy parents" is kinda cool but I don't know if I'll beat my kids if/when I have children. I would like for my neighbors to reprimand my children if they do something wrong but I don't know about beating them.

Anonymous said...

Research suggests that about 94 percent of parents of children ages three to four in the United States report having spanked their children in the previous year.

2At the same time, however, use of corporal punishment is often linked to negative outcomes for children (e.g., delinquency, antisocial behavior, and low self-esteem), and may be indicative of ineffective parenting.3,

4Research also finds that the number of problem behaviors observed in adolescence are related to the amount of spanking a child receives, with the relationship becoming stronger as children age.

5Positive childoutcomes can be obtained when parents refrain from spanking and other physical punishment and alternatively discipline their children through firm, rational control and nurturing communication.

6Studies find that this type of disciplinary style can foster positive psychological outcomes such as high self-esteem and cooperation with others, as well as improved achievement in school.

7The type of discipline employed is often influenced by both the age and the reasoning ability of the child.

8For example, younger children may have greater difficulty responding to rational communicative discipline, whereas older children may respond more readily to firm and nurturing communication. For younger children, an alternative strategy may be to redirect the child’s attention, rather than use rational communication or spanking.


Differences by Educational Attainment In 2004, there were no significant differences in attitudes towards spanking by level of education for males or females.

In past years, females with greater levels of education were less likely to believe that giving a child a “good, hard spanking” is sometimes necessary.

10Differences by Race and Hispanic Origin Non-Hispanic black women are more likely than women of other races/ethnicity to agree or strongly agree that “a good hand spanking” a child is sometimes necessary.

In 2004, 94 percent of non-Hispanic black women, compared with 72 percent of Hispanic women, 65 percent of non-Hispanic white women, and 46 percent of Asian/Pacific Islander women, agreed that a child sometimes needs a “good hard spanking.”

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/pdf/51_PDF.pdf


I found this interesting:

African American students are more than twice as likely to be paddled. The disparity persists even in places with large black populations, the study found. Similarly, Native Americans were more than twice as likely to be paddled, the study found.

The study also found:

–In states where paddling is most common, black girls were paddled more than twice as often as white girls.

–Boys are three times as likely to be paddled as girls.

–Special education kids were more likely to be paddled.

http://www.staugustine.com/stories/082108/nation_082108_027.shtml

Vérité Parlant said...

It's all too tragic to be a p*ss*ng contest, but when I read "Philly is known for having the most violent juveniles in the country, and the stories you hear everyday around here justifies the label, I thought, No! We have the most violent juveniles down here in New Orleans or can you top 7 youth-related violent deaths in one day? But this is not a title either of us wants to claim.

Down here there have been marches against crime monthly it seems of late and declarations that we need to take our streets back. But how? I'm thinking shades of Mosley's Always Outnumbered, Always Outgunned, but the truth is some parents need an ass-whupping.

A black cable guy came to my house today and we must've spent a good 15 minutes talking about young'uns with guns and how he was teaching his 11-year-old son to think straight and don't follow a crowd. His son will probably be okay because he has a father who cares, who is a community activist and a mother who stays on him as well.

I remember being a teen and scared to truly act up because it was like my mother's friends and my grandmother's friends were everywhere. They had spies all over the city and I knew if one of them reported I was acting like a fool somewhere, I was gonna catch hell. How, I hated that, but how many people did that village save from Angola.

What happened? What happened to us, is it partly middle-class black flight to the suburbs?

One of several things our two cities have in common is they're both old. There's been a few studies showing a correlation between increased lead in the blood of people who show more aggression, and it's a real problem down here among people living in poverty (much of the black city). I wish I could grab that bad news about lead and say, "AHA! This is the problem, just get the lead out of the soil down here and these old buildings, but I know it's more than that, and often I weep.

Thank you, btw, for adding my blog to your list of blogs. I really appreciate it. You don't know how much. :-)

Anonymous said...

SOMEONE, said (PRAY) thank you, we have thousand's of CHURCH'S in the BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD'S and yet, when I leave out going to CHURCH on SUNDAY'S, their are car's in the drive way's!

We are a SELFISH people, we have no respect for GOD, and yet we wonder why our KID'S are out of control! and this is not limited to the BLACK COMMUNITY! kid's are out of control all over AMERICA!

We allowed PRAYER to be taken out of SCHOOL, PRAYER was a COVERING for our CHILDREN! and now we have HEATHEN'S in SCHOOL with ASSAULT WEAPON'S.

I refuse to believe in this day and age, that you can raise a child without SPANKING their behind's! and their is no such thing as a TIME OUT! that is a bunch of man made stuff, and it will never, hold water against what THE WORD of GOD say's.

WHITE parent's buy their kid's GUN'S to hunt with, and a week later, that child kill's his father, whose fault is that? PARENT'S are out of control as well, I blame all of this on MEN in GENERAL? we have dismissed GOD out of our HOME'S as well as our SCHOOL'S and we wonder why their is BLOOD SHED in the LAND!

field negro said...

"One thing I notice when you go into the inner city today is that you don't see any men.

You see women children and boys."

uptownsteve, that is a great observation, and it's so true.

"why are you shading the story this way? the 12-year-old was believed to be the intended victim. he has previous arrests for drugs."

maria, Iam not shading the story. So the 12 year old had drug arrests, that's not unusual here in Killadelph. I have heard a lot of things about this story, but that wasn't the focus of my post. Maybe another time.

Zigga Za, we have the murder maps here as well. If you go to philly.com I am sure you might even find one today. Google philly and murder map and I am sure you will find something. And what the hell is going on down there in B-more? I used to go to your inner harbor to get away from the madness here. I might have to start heading north. :)

Anon 6:57PM, thanks for those stats. I always love stats.

VP, you are welcome on that blog link. You have a great site. I love reading Louisiana blogs.

Anonymous said...

I refuse to believe in this day and age, that you can raise a child without SPANKING their behind's!

__________

Then I question your parenting skills. It's possible to raise good kids with or without spanking, but when we start to call it a cure-all for the ills in this country, that's when I get annoyed.

I agree that time-out isn't a cure-all either.

First, let's clear one thing up. There is a big difference between discipline and punishment. Discipline involves teaching and guiding a child, showing them how to behave and encouraging them to do so. Discipline is a process, not an act.

Punishment is a TOOL of discipline. Punishment could be spanking, taking away privileges, lectures, or anything else the parent deems appropriate.

The problem is that many parents think spanking is it. That's all they have to do. Send Jr. out into the world with only the knowledge that if he effs up, his ass will get tore up when he gets home. Jr. may act respectful at home to avoid beatings, but as soon as he gets out into the world, he acts like a hellion because he hasn't really been taught how to behave, and it probably wasn't modeled for him at home, either.

Spanking as a TOOL is fine if that's what you believe in, but it's flat out lazy to think that spanking makes or breaks a person. Spanking does not make productive citizens, PARENTING does.

I cannot stress this enough. All this chest-thumping comes off as ignorant and prideful to me, because I see spanked children everyday who act like they've been raised by a pack of wolves.

Anonymous said...

As probably the youngest person here(18), may I interject? Honestly beating the kids isn't getting anywhere. Honestly, just cut BET from the regular television watching and prevent them from playing Grand Theft Auto. I mean in today's society where we glorify gang violence(American Gangster, Notorious, etc.) and actually have videogames that simulate the experience(Grand Theft Auto, Doom, Call of Duty, etc.), it's about time for everyone,black or white, to stop training these kids to be little soldiers.

Christopher Chambers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christopher Chambers said...

Field,

I am a supporter of President Obama. I am also a liberal. I am African American. I think you can be all three and still with a straight Goddamn face present Norplant and Depro provera as a realistic solution to part of the problem.

Oh and by the way, People reports that Chris Brown and Rihanna are back together again, at one of Diddy's homes.
What did Chris Rock say about the difference between "niggers and black people" (no matter how much money they have, apparently)?

metricpenny said...

Someone already mentioned that over here the JDs (juvenile delinquents, not attorneys) have guns. Not the case in England.

Therefore, I'll comment on your Philadelphia Reads picture on the sidebar. You're looking good. Not just physically, but with whom you are pictured with and for what you both are doing. Thanks for stepping up (or in) FN!

But I have a question - Did you post the picture of your bare butt Broad St run for Obama and I missed it?

Christopher Chambers said...

So guns are the issue? But for guns, these little thugs would be mere cute urchins a la Oliver Twist? Nope. Guns are symptom. Even if you take them out of the equation, the disease is still there.

classical one said...

Good going on Philadelphia reads Field. BTW, you look like a dead ringer for Flex Wheeler in that photo.

Marketing Diva said...

I told a kid the other day stop cursing in front of adults, he froze and walked away. His friends all agreed with me and teased him. Yeah he could have had a gun and honestly, I just acted on Instinct but I was tried of his mouth.

No an azz whopping is not always the answer but it is a good option. I feared my parents and hated them but when I reached 23 had graduated from college had my own apartment and was not anyone's baby momma, I was grateful for every last azz whopping I ever got. My mother was my biggest cheerleader and chief butt kicker.

We need our village back, we need our brothers and we need to pray for our children

metricpenny said...

CC @ 9:42 pm

I realize I wasn't clear - guns are not the issue, my FEAR of JDs with guns is! I apologize for the confusion.

Anonymous said...

I tired of talking about black crime.When I think of youth crime I always remember "Lord of the Flies" and "A clockwork orange". Obviously both were written by Brits. It's a homonal thing that the chimpanzee also experienced last week. I think he was twenty. The thing is how do the kids react when they're busted by an adult? In Japan, they react with shame, so there's a cultural aspect to this too. Personally, I think some kids are just bad and they want someone to join them. Strong families help but there will always be teenage punks and adult criminals just like there will always be poor poeple.

szpork

field negro said...

"guns are not the issue, my FEAR of JDs with guns is!"

metricpenny, I am afraid of JD's with guns too. But the ones with the brief cases. :)And you still won't let me out of that run huh? Well, I am waiting until it gets a little warmer before I go out there. And yes,I will post it...maybe.

Flex Wheeler? Classic One, I wish I could get his cuts without the roids.

Anon. 8:5PM, thanks for commenting. It's always nice to hear from the young heads.

I have a great deal of respect for you folks who hold it down as parents. I honestly don't know how you do it. How you choose to raise your child is on you I guess, as long as you get the results you want.

Professor Zero said...

I don't know, Field. I went to the post office today and there were two Black grandmothers, one pinching her toddler's ears and talking to him very meanly for no apparent reason, and the other who kept slapping hers and snarling at him, also for no apparent reason. It wasn't a great scene and I'm not sure it was a *lack* of child abuse that caused this shooting ... what if it's the other way around?

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Whelp, after reading all the comments, what can I say, but each to his own. One thing puzzles me is since when did a whipping turn into a beating. What I would call beating a child is punching a child with your fist and that's a no no in book. Putting a little something on their behind ain't gone hurt them.

When I did something wrong, my parents tanned my behind with a switch/belt. Am I a criminal or thug? NOPE! Do I have low self-esteem? NOPE! Am I or do I have anti-social behavior? NOPE! Am I violent? NOPE! Do I solve my problems with violence. NOPE! However, if someone was to punch me, I will punch them back, because I refuse to be someone's punching bag. Other than that the answer is still...NOPE! Am I an animal or do I act like one? NOPE! I am none of those things named aboved in the prior post by others. What about my children or grandchildren does any of the above apply to them? NOPE!

My grandchildren are active in the church. They don't just go to church, they participate. Nobody made them do it or told them they had to do it either, it was their own free choice. Some of my grandkids participate in sports. One of the older granddaughters models and would like to act. Another one takes ballet lessons and Spanish lessons( she is only five). All of my grandchildren and children like to read. One of them is in the GATE program, which is a program for gifted children. A few of them play instruments and some of them sing.
However, according to everyone that has posted who are against whippings as a type of punishment has somehow turned us into the corrupt, antisociable, violent, thugs, criminal minded element. Hotdog! smh!

Anonymous 7:44:

Prophetess Wallace, I'm with you lady on some of what you said, except for the calling folks Heathens part. I'm not going that far. However, what you wrote is true. You old school sanctified church lady, I can tell. (smile) Are you Apostolic or C.O.G.I.C.?

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Marketing Diva:

"I was grateful for every last azz whopping I ever got. My mother was my biggest cheerleader and chief butt kicker."

Me too!

"We need our village back, we need our brothers and we need to pray for our children"

Amen, sister, amen!

Anonymous said...

However, according to everyone that has posted who are against whippings as a type of punishment has somehow turned us into the corrupt, antisociable, violent, thugs, criminal minded element. Hotdog! smh!
_____________

Reading comprehenstion. We said that whippings aren't doing any good, because if most black kids are getting spanked (whipped, beat, whatever), and our community is in shambles, is it really making a difference? Nobody has answered that question yet.

Like you, I am a great person. Never been in trouble with the law, love the Lord, etc. We can talk all day about ourselves, but what about the community as a WHOLE? It's not just about you or me.

We can go ahead and keep spanking (whipping, beating) and thinking we're doing our jobs, but looking around at these black parents and their kids, I just want to ask them, like Dr. Phil, "How's that working for ya?"

Bob said...

My dad rarely rarely raused a hand to us, but when he got mad, he had the scariest bug eyes freeze you right in your tracks. Friend of mine used to get a leather belt on occasion. His dad wasn't a bad guy or a boozer, just old school, & my friend vowed never to whup his own kids, & never did.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 1:31:

I am more than well aware that this world is not about me. That's wonderful that you love the Lord. Really it is. I love him too. Nevertheless, I'm just as concerned as the next person when it comes to our youth dying and killing one another. Because frankly speaking, I'm tired of hearing about it, witnessing it, seeing families grieve over the loss of a love one, and children killing one another and dying before their time over nothing, etc...etc.

Most of the people, not all, but most of them posting on this blog probably live in a suburban middleclass or upperclass or rural neighborhood and have never even stayed one night in a inner city. In other words, their on the outside looking in at a distance or going by what they read about in the newspapers or see on the news. Therefore, they haven't observed troubled kids grow up from the time they were babies to know what made them turn out like they did.

However, I think you missing the point of what I'm trying to get across. My point is was whipping as a form of punishment is not what causes these young people to become a thugs and kill one another. It didn't hurt me or make me want to go out and kill somebody, nor did it do that to my children, or my grandchildren. It taught me to respect authority. The root of the problem is deeper and it's more of a combination of things that causes them to turn out to be killers and thugs.

Most of the people, not all, posting on this blog probably live in a suburban middleclass or upperclass or rural neighborhood and have never even stayed one night in a inner city. In other words, their on the outside looking in at a distance or going by what they read about in the newspapers or see on the news. Therefore, they haven't observed troubled kids grow up from the time they were babies to really know what made them turn out like they did.

Some of the kids in inner cities go to school hungry, because there is no food in the house. Some of their mothers are strung out on dope and selling everything in the house that is not nailed down. When they go home there is still no food in the house, because their mother has sold her foodstamps or food out of the refrigerator for a hit. The lights and gas are turned off. Kids go to school with their clothes dirty and raggedy and the other children tease them and make fun of them.

Or maybe, their mother is shacking up with a different man every other month or week or day. Or the mother has an abusive boyfriend or husband beating the soup out of her in front of them every night or taking her money. Yes, I said husband, because some of them have sorry men for husbands too and maybe he's on drugs or into some other type of criminal activity. What about the mother's and fathers selling their children's body so that they can get a hit. Or what about their dad's in prison and that's the only place they've known him to be since they were old enough to remember.

What about some of the good kids that go to school and wind up with some racist teacher that is just teaching in at inner city school to satisfy their student loan requirement. The teacher projects his/her racist views on the child and frustrates him from wanting to learn. Or makes up stuff to get the child kicked out of school and the child is labeled the villian when all the time the teacher really was mistreating the child. Or how about some of the police that hold racist views and just like to harrass and give black kids a bad time, because after all, all blacks are criminals.

Kids nowadays deal with a type of peer pressure that we didn't have to deal with when we were children. If people only knew the peer pressure that exist nowadays it would shock you. You have to keep a close watch over your child these days because the peer pressure is so strong in this day and age until it will replace the real family and becomes a substitute family. There are older kids who have harden who are out recruiting young kids that are barely two steps from being a toddler on a daily basis.

Sweetheart , I could go more into detail of the causes that folks not talking about. Parenting skills is just the tip of the iceberg, it is more to it then what meets the eye. Disciplining them ain't it, because their parents don't have time to discipline them, because they're too busy doing what they do. Lack of disclipline is more of what is the problem. You'd be surprise alot of their parents are teaching them to do what they do. They are actually telling them that that is the way to handle the situation.

People can disagree with what I've said, and that's fine with me. I have no problem with that. It's a two way street in life and I might not always agree with them. Like I said, each to its own. Everyone has their own way of raising their kids. I have done my duty as a mother and a parent and mine turned out pretty good. I've never had to go to the morgue, or visit them in jail, they not on the streets selling drugs, or trying to kill one another. They're doing something constructive and have activities to keep them occupied. "An idle mind is the devil's workshop." I have to agee with anonymous, every child needs some Jesus in them, because it teaches them some morals.

I'm, also, aware of my surroundings and the people that live in it. How crazy is this, when a kid kills another kid, every kid in the city knows who did it, when they did it, and why they did it, except the police. Not only that, sometimes the one who did will attend the funeral like nothing happened.

Bob:

I'm glad you mentioned this, "Friend of mine used to get a leather belt on occasion.my friend vowed never to whup his own kids, & never did." Because that is why some folks are against giving their children a whipping.

Lady-Cracker said...

When and adult does something really bad they pay fines and or go to jail.

Spanking for kids ought to be like jail for adults. You do this; you get that spanking.

People who haul off in a fit of anger or annoyance and start whaling on their kids are not disciplining them, just using them for a release valve.

I don't think that kids should ever by screamed at or have really ugly things said to them. There are some down sides to depriving a kid by time outs and taking things/priviledges away. I have an adult step child with really depressive tendencies who had stuff taken away and sent to his room.

Some kind of loving sense needs to be applied to how children are raised. I did the firm talking to, the star charts, the time outs, the reduction of priviledges, no dessert et cetera with our youngest. Just no dice, he would not sit and do his homework. Gave passive agressive a really good run. I finally said you need to finish copying those sentences or I will give you some swats. After the appointed time, no copy, I gave the child the swats. Came back after the second appointed time and they were done. The kid had spent well over an hour not doing 5-6 minutes of copying. This was a kid that was indulged with loads of parental time, reading, playing, and working and the child is only now at a quarter of a century actually learing how to jump in and do a job that musts be done and not what the kid wants to do.

I had always thought that a child learned what you did, not what you said. My spouse and I have worked at jobs and at our business and around our home, visibly providing, making and doing for our family. I did not think that having the kid learn to do what needs to be done would be such a horrendous problem.

I eventually quit with the hands on and the pressure and all of the rest, including the punishment after one taumatic spanking in high school. The kid failed the next 3 semesters. The school wanted to put him into continuation school. His choice, I said. He kept going to regular school and graduated a year later than he should have. He might actually make it out of college with a decent technical degree. I still do not know what or how to have done that differently.

I have known parents, job holding do it your selfers who have taken out additional mortgages to send their kids to rehab and a couple to the special camps to boot camp kids back to civilization. Other parents have scrimpted and saved to send the kid to college only to have them not quite graduate, or garduate and still be a worthless sad sack.

Christopher Chambers, I still hear you and still not one else seems to react. Deproprovera and Norplant all around would really, really help 15-20 years later.

Lady-Cracker said...

Off topic:

"Becoming American" is a useful reference for younger people, and for a quick overview or refresher of dates. The format with black history in the U.S.A. next to the rest of the world's events is a particularly useful format to help visualize the flow of events.

marci said...

great post field.. totally agree with you.. i told a kid off in front of its parent on the bus this week and then had to tell the parent that if she wasn't going to teach her child right from wrong she opened herself and her child up to letting society do it... i told her she is lucky that i am benign and mean no harm to her child.. others out there would teach a lesson that could hurt.. she had nothing to say..

Anonymous said...

a start would be for these little killers to know who the hell their parents are!!!!

Monroe Anderson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Monroe Anderson said...

Granny: The prisons are overcrowded with children who got their asses whipped at home AND on the streets. Rather than beating up your child because you're bigger and stronger, it's better to teach them how to behave by reasoning with them and punishing by non-violent means.

I have two sons who are now grown men. They weren't whipped once as children. When they were misbehaving, I used to threaten to make them have to go to church if they didn't stop. That worked.

Both are responsible, respectable young men who have never been arrested, don't have any babies and are living successful, productive lives.

Whipping a child is a poor parenting technique. Teaching them that violence is not the solution to a problem, and that reasoning and using self-control, is a much better approach.

Anonymous said...

Granny, you're preaching to the choir on the problems in the inner city. I actually agree with you on everything you posted about that. What I have said over and over is that whipping these kids won't do a darn thing if nobody is PARENTING them. Whipping a child in the absence of love and guidance is basically just violence. There is no context.

I NEVER said that whippings cause people to be thugs. I said whippings don't necessarily PREVENT thuggery and violence. Big difference.

What these children need is love, attention, and guidance. They need to know someone gives a damn. They need food and shelter and to be able to walk through their neighborhoods without getting shot at. I just think it's incredibly ignorant to shout "Whip that ass!" and think that's going to cure all the ills in our community. Obviously it's not working if we've been doing it all this time and nothing has helped.

BTW, I didn't vow not to spank my kids out of some bitterness over being spanked myself. I vowed to get to know my kids and what they need and to try different tactics to see if something else would work. If I can get the same result you did without spanking, why wouldn't I do it my way?

People need to stop blaming non-spanking parents for what's wrong with the world. In reality, most parents, of ALL races, still spank. People need to find another excuse because it's getting really old.

HJ said...

Anonymous 2:04pm, I was goign to respond to the more recent posts, but I'll jsut say that I agree with everything you had to say. Excellent.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 2:04:

You right I am preaching to the choir, because somehow, now, folks have exaggerated and twisted what I'm saying and made it into I beat my kids, I'm bitter, a angry parent, don't talk to them, lack of love, lack of guidance, and everything else. So, I have to agree with you, I am preaching to the choir. The only thing is none of them have yet to tell me why my children turned out to be productive, responsible, law abiding citizens, with respect for human life and adults that don't go around killing other human beings, committing crimes, and that have a foundation in the Lord.

Therefore, I'll just leave this topic along and let the majority figure it out. My children are in their forties and I'm glad that I never had to go through what some people are going through with theirs. I truly thank God for that.

I love children of all ages with a passion and have an excellent relationship with them. One way to get on my bad side is if an adult mistreats or abuses one. The young and older kids call me granny too. A teacher once asked me, "How many grandkids do you have?" The older ones don't cuss in front of me, they don't disrespect me, and they listen to me.

As for blaming non-spanking parents for what's wrong with the world, nope, I never did that, because I said "EACH TO HIS OWN". I only tried to share how I raised mine. Forgive me for doing that.

As for those who have never lived in a inner city in their entire life, how can you teach someone how to build a house, if you've never built one yourself.

Anonymous said...

Granny, you obviously are taking my posts personally. I was mostly speaking in general terms.

I honestly believe your kids are productive citizens because you are a good parent. I don't see anything wrong with spanking as a TOOL of discipline. My problem is when people think spanking is what makes people grow up to be good people. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Do you honestly believe your kids would have turned out the way they did if you were a terrible parent who spanked? Of course not! THAT is my point. Spanking in the absence of parenting DOES NOT WORK. That is why I disagreed with Field (this one time :-)).

These young thugs out here need way more than butt whippings. Bottom line.


Thank you, HJ!

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

anonymous 4:05:

No dear, I am not taking your post personally. I'm probably not expressing myself clear enough. Sorry about that. Granny is trying to post in between doing something else.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

BTW, Anonymous 4:05:

I'm glad that you brought up that spanking is not the only tool, because it's not. I totally agree with you on that. Kids need activities, recreation as well something to burn off that excess energy. There is a whole lot more to parenting. And people have to realize when folks become parent they are learning how to be a parent as well. I always say that when your a parent your at the apprenticeship level, but when you become a grandparent your at the journeyman level.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

A main complaint that I hear kids say all the time is there is nothing to do.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

I had wanted share with you good folks. As I've said before I go out and sit on my front sometimes during the day. One of the neighborhood kids that comes over to visit me, when he sees me sitting on my porch. I sometimes let him pick up the paper and debris that people passing by drop out in front of my house. I'd give him a few dollars for doing it. I treated it like a form of a regular job for him. First, I started out with something like a starting pay and watched to see how good a job he would do. Depending on how good a job he did, that's how much I'd give him. In the process, he learned how to do his best. If he did a good job, he got paid more.

While he is picking up the debris, he tells me about how his day went in school or talks to me about different things. At first, he used to run straight to the store and spend his money. One day, he didn't have any money and wanted to go to the store, so, he wanted to know if I had anything he could do. I told him nope not today. That is when I started talking to him about saving for a rainy day and spending money wisely.

Whelp, yesterday he came by to show me some new shoes he had brought with his money, and he told me that he still has some money saved. I almost cried because he was proud of what he had accomplished. He felt good about himself.

Anonymous said...

yea, sure he saved his hard earned "change" to by new shoe, more like he stole the damn things.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Anonymous 10:24:

You sho are ignorant! smh!

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

BTW, Anonymous 10:24:

It's buy not by. Hopefully you'll get better after you graduate from reading the Dick and Jane primers.

west coast story said...

I keep telling you that these little brats also come from two-parent working families. They have either perfectly cluless or guilt-ridden parents who will never fix their lips to say "no" to their kids.

Parents are not supposed to be their kids' friends. They're supposed to drill into their heads how to be disciplined and resposible human beings.

I don't believe in beating kids. It's a lot more effective to bust their ass at home for a period of time with no privileges. And I mean no privileges. Beating a kid is a sorry message and it's lazy parenting. You want youth to be less violent by assaulting them? I'm no softy but corpporal punishment for teenagers is just wrong.

We had a brawl last night with more than a dozen young adults. It woke me up which is bad. This AM I told one young man who was hanging out front with some people in a car, with my neck rolling and my finger moving side to side that "what happened last night was totally unacceptable and it will not ever happen again.". I was reasonably respectful but I did not mince words. For me it's about the lack of respect and a complete absence of self control. The young man said it wasn't him and a lot of sputtering. I haven't heard so much as a fart from over there all day. We cleaned up one property last year and frankly, these little thugs know I will make them pay.

There were no weapons displayed during the brawl which was why I was comfortable getting in this kids' face. I don't take shite but I'm not suicidal either. And having gray hair probably doesn't hurt either.

And yes, I called the cops who flew by twice with lights flashing and they never even stopped.

So here it is: as much as these young adults infuriate me, if I was going to beat anyone, it would be their ignorant, useless, pathetic parents. That's who needs the ass kicking, dumbass mom and dad. This starts at home, all of it.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

West Coast:

Forgive me but I had to laugh at this part, "I don't take shite but I'm not suicidal either. And having gray hair probably doesn't hurt either."

But anyways, I feel ya! They will probably respect your space from here on out because sometimes that's all it takes is for someone to speak up.

west coast story said...

Yeah, Granny. Getting old can have its perks.

Here's one for you. A week ago, a young man on his way to the store is stabbed to death. His family is on TV talking about what a great guy he was.

Turns out he was stabbed with his own knife while he and another young man tried to rob someone. The robbee actually took the knife away and killed this kid. I believe the deceased had a criminal record with drug activity. It's not a pleasant story with an unfortunate ending but this young man was no angel.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

West Coast:

Yeah, I read that story and was shaking my head. The word says if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. These kids nowadays are Scarfaced indoctrinated. It's sad and it fills people with so many mixed emotions.

I remember back years ago while studying my bible and praying, I heard just as plain as day, "Oh, Rachel weep for your children."

RisingTide said...

granny,
I wasn't sayin you beat your kids black and blue like my grandpa did. Just that for every "punish them" you gotta be looking out for when it's time to give the PARENTS a talking to.
It does take a village, but that's not just about helping the kids -- it's about helping the parents too, even if they don't realize they need help yet.
God bless you for looking out for that neighbor kid. I wish we could all do that!
(yeah, I'm a white girl in the posh part of town. I go downtown -- to the main drag, with three other people, and people are looking at us like "can we take them?" NO, I am not going to spend a night down there, for love OR money!)

Professor Zero said...

It appears that my 4x great grandfather did a great job of whipping. You can read all about it in the narrative of Frederick Douglass who was partly raised on his plantation. I am not yet virtuous enough to be a complete pacifist but I am against violence and all forms of torture. Hit someone your own size, y'all - not a child.

Professor Zero said...

I should add for clarity - someone your own size, and not someone you have to tie up first, or someone you need a group to help you overpower or run down. Want to crack some heads? Take a martial arts class, maybe. It sounds as though a lot of children have learned to be quite violent from YOU. Great job, said Professor Zero sardonically.

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