Monday, May 31, 2010

Raid on a flotilla.


As some of you might or might not know, I am a big defender of the Jewish people. Usually my biggest fights with my ideological soul-mates are over issues having to do with the Jewish Palestinian conflict, and Israel's right to exist in the Middle East. No need rehashing that fight tonight. My position on the matter is pretty clear.

Still, tonight we have to revisit that subject, because Israel is once again in the news. Chalk it up to a raid on an alleged humanitarian boat taking supplies to Gaza. Quite a few activist were killed, (I am hearing anywhere from 7-16) and since most of them were Turkish, the Turkish government, along with the rest if the International community, is pissed. The Turkish Ambassador is calling it a very sad day and as is usually the case when Israel is involved with these types of incidents, the usual suspects are all coming to the fore.

They are burning Israeli flags in Istanbul and Athens, the UN has called for an investigation, and the Israeli PM canceled a trip to meet his O ness because of the crisis. They are calling the people who lost their lives pro-Palestinian peace activist and they allege that Israeli commandos stormed their boat and slaughtered them.

"So field, are you going to come out and condemn your beloved Israel now?" Come on field, it's clearly an act of aggression on their part which caused these poor people to lose their lives. The Turkish aid group involved released a video, field, why don't you look at it?"

Yes, I am sorry for the people who lost their lives. But unlike the folks who have been e-mailing me and commenting on this subject, I don't know all of the facts. I do know that the Israeli government has denied that this is how things went down, and they have pointed to the very same video in the link above as proof of their position.

And, for the record, if we are going to keep it real with each other; let's talk about Turkey for a minute: What's with all the outrage when they have a Kurdish population in their own damn country who have been at the shitty end of some serious human rights abuses? "People in glass houses." I mean if we are going to keep it real.

Look, I am no fan of Benjamin Netanyahu. As far as I am concerned he represents within Israel what right wingers represent in this country, and I think that there is a dangerous escalation taking place in the Middle East right now. (Poor Obama) With Netanyahu in charge there is no telling where that region is heading. So I have some concerns.

But I will end this post where I started: I don't know all the facts, so I will take a wait and see attitude before I jump all in. Unlike some folks who I just know can't wait too tell me about the evil Israelis.





137 comments:

maria said...

the basic stuff is not in dispute.

murder is murder.

i don't care who committed it, and i don't support any group blindly.

Sophia said...

Will you explain why you lean toward the Israeli side of the equation please? I am interested. Thanks.

Shady_Grady said...

The Israelis attacked a humanitarian convoy in international waters. There's no excuse for that shit.

The humanitarian convoy was challenging the inhumane and illegal blockade of Gaza. This is the essence of non-violent direct action. No one cares if Palestinians get killed or starved but the flotilla had white people and non-Palestinians on it-precisely to bring media attention to the demented violence of the current Israeli state.

But none of that really matters. What matters is the attack was done in international waters. It's a cowardly criminal act.

Anonymous said...

Israel has never refused humanitarian aid to Gaza. The naval blockade is about stopping importation of weapons from Iran to Gaza and Israel should continue it. Egypt has a controlled border with Gaza too. Hamas' leader declared this mission a success last week by the way... I already know the UN will blame Israel, they always do. Doesn't the name Israel in Hebrew translate to "Land of the Philistines" ? They migrated north if I remember right. If Iran love the Palastinians so much, give them a home. They don't have a right to that land anymore than the Jews...

szpork

field negro said...

Damn, let me go outside and see if there is a blue moon......I actually agree with szpork.

"Will you explain why you lean toward the Israeli side of the equation please? I am interested. Thanks."

Sophia, I once watched (on television) an Israeli beaten to death by a room full of Arabs. When they finished one of them came to the window with the blood of the Jew in his hands. As he put his hands out the window, the crowd cheered wildly.

Read the first link in the post.

Anonymous said...

Some FN. Blind support for a nation that stole its land from people already there is perfect house negro bahavior.

But on topic, this was an act of piracy in international waters. When african fishermen pirate ships, we kill them and/or put them in jail (not saying this is wrong, by the way). But when Israel does another gross overreaction, they are once again the victim.

I hope israel is hammered by the international community. As for who struck the first blow, the humanitarian ships were boarded by a hostile army. Did the military expect to be greeted with open arms? They killed people then justify it because there were slingshots and marbles on board? Are you shitting me? This is like the dog ate my homework. I look forward to jon stewart's take on this stupidity.

This was an illegal act of aggression and whatever opposition the military received, they deserved.

Anonymous said...

If Iran pulled a similar act what would the response be? Even if you support Israel do you not have sense of fairness? Turkey is a NATO country and this ship was attacked in International Waters, under any other circumstance the US would be responding with the call for sanctions against that nation.

How is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians any different than South Africa's Apartheid?

Anonymous said...

Despicable behavior by Arabs does not excuse the theft of land already occupied.

Nobody should have to "take in" Palestinians when they already had their own land. I guess you support the theft of Native American land?

Anonymous said...

The first Isreali's on board the "humanitarian ship" were armed with paint guns and they were stabbed, damn it...

szpork

Shady_Grady said...

The Israeli blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law. It has nothing to do with preventing weapons from entering Gaza. One would have to be credulous to believe that. It has everything to do with collective punishment of Gazans for voting for Hamas.

The Israelis are SHOOTING at Palestinian fishermen who travel further than two nautical miles from shore. Medical supplies have been prevented from arriving and people have died as a result. Does that sound like preventing weapons from coming in? Ridiculous.

Amnesty Report

The big misconception is that Israel=Jews. It doesn't, not any more than South Africa = Whites. There have been and are plenty of Jewish intellectuals, writers and activists who have been caustically critical of Israel-Zinn, Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Tony Judt, etc.. They have a higher regard for their humanity than for an in-group loyalty. To criticize a country for an attack on an humanitarian convoy in international waters is not anti-Semitic, unless of course one thinks that anyone criticizing the state troopers at the Selma marches must by definition be anti-White.

Shady_Grady said...

Israeli Attack

It's not readily clear what exactly transpired on the ships after Israeli forces (initiating the confrontation) stormed them in international waters, but Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon's preposterous assertion that the humanitarian activists were connected to al-Qaeda has indicated from the beginning that Israel has no intention whatsoever to be serious in explaining its actions. But who can blame them for reaching for the absurd? To appreciate how tough it is to explain their actions, all one has to do is imagine the opposite scenario: What if it were Hamas militants that attacked humanitarian ships in international waters on their way to deliver humanitarian aid to Israel? Is there anything Hamas could possibly say to make its actions seem defensible?

Anonymous said...

Shady, it is clear... You're just a dim bulb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE&feature=player_embedded

Greg L said...

"How is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians any different than South Africa's Apartheid?"

It is no different, but is made much worst by the deafening silence from our own government as the response to this will be either muted or non-existent consistent with past practice. It is made far worst that South Africa because that pariah state paid for its excesses with boycotts and prohibitions against investment. In the case of Israel, the US taxpayer is effectively funding this pariah state.

It is high time that we cut them off. US taxpayers should not have to pay for any of this.

Bruno Leicht said...

I've always known Israel has the World wrapped around it's little finger, but...I am really beginning to see their lies, and that it is actually condoned in their religious texts!

They are the ones who are destroying my nation...the Zionist bastards destroy everyone for financial gain, they have ruined the World and now we give them our money!

Bruno Leicht

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Keith said...

Their is no Jewish Palestinian conflict, their is only Israel apartheid. And let's keep it real that's exactly what it is. They killed people who merely tried to give aid to those who needed it. Calling out Zionism for what it is is not the same as antisemitism. I know plenty of Jewish people who have issues with Israel and the oppression of Palestinian people.

coffee and cigarettes said...

Field, usually i agree with you, but I have to disagree with you on quite a few points here.

Firstly, yes turkey has human rights abuses that need to be condemned. However, the "glass house" logic does not work IMO..we all have a responsibility to condemn human rights abuses anywhere and everywhere. CF uses similar logic when he thinks 'street pirates' can negate every debate about racism.

Israel has committed some atrocious human rights abuses, and there has been something like 114 UN resolutions against Israel that have ALL been vetoed by the US. As someone said earlier, if Iran did this, what would the reaction from the US be? Swift and harsh condemnation. Israel/palestine is similar to South African apartheid, yet no politician in American can critize it properly and still have a political career after. I remember Hillary Clinton saying something in support of palestine years ago and then having to aplogize and retract the statement.

Also, the barbaric actions of a few individual arabs in beating up that jew does not say something about all arabs/palestnians/muslims. And you shouldn't have it affect your view of the israel/palestine problem.

Israel, just like every country in this world but especially such a close ally, has the responsibility of upholding human rights. The thing that drives the rest of the world in tolerating such actions is an undercurrent of islamophobia IMO. Its easier to turn your head at such flagrant injustices when the victims are dehumanized and seen as a potentially dangerous/extremist.

I'm all for a two-state solution: I support Isreals right to exist now just as I support the right of an independent, equal palestinian state. However, Israel's current government is clearly not seeking a peaceful two-state solution. Instead they think they can do anything they want without the international community being able to do anything about it.

"If Iran love the Palastinians so much, give them a home. They don't have a right to that land anymore than the Jews..."

This is a straw man argument, szpork. Nobody is talking about a right to the land...that train is now passed, both states have a right to exist. What is issue here is human rights abuses.

Also, your statment about Iran is akin to somebody during apartheid asking why doesn't Zimbambwe take in all the black south africans. Do you see the logical flaw? you can't make the argument that its ok to be kicked out of your home, driven into refugee camps, have the most basic of rights taken away from you because ANOTHER COUNTRY could theoretically take you in.

coffee and cigarettes said...

Also, Israel always claims to have been "attacked" first whenever they commit a human rights fiasco. This is a standard military lie, and has been used in conflicts all around the world. To say that a ship carrying humanitarian aid to an ignored and oprressed people attacked you in international waters is beyond ridiculous.

Black Diaspora said...

Don't create a shadow banking system that's driven by derivatives, without setting aside sufficient capital to cover bets, if you don't want to risk destroying the economies of the world.

Don't ignore safety concerns, if you're a mine owner, and you don't want blood on your hands.

Don't drill in the Gulf, if you don't want an environmental, and ecological disaster.

Don't board ships in international waters, if you don't want to create an international incident, if things turn violent.

Why is it that the "do's" are done more often than the "don't's"?

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the insightful and thoughtful post tonight, Field...I see it brought the blind haters out in force. Thanks also for the truth about "Palestine" and Judea...rarely heard these days.

The problem here is that the situation creates a "lose / lose " mess for Mr. Obama...also, have to agree with Black Diaspora, it was a bonehead move to board the ship, because nothing good could come of it, only bad & worse (which is unfortunately what happened...

It just might bring down Netanyahu's Government, which would not be a bad thing, and which would certainly save our President even more grief...

Anonymous said...

Field, "Damn, let me go outside and see if there is a blue moon......I actually agree with szpork."

Yeah, I am sure you do agree. You and Israel need all the support you can get for that murderous state. Well, thus far you've got szpork...that should help your case immensely.

It looks like Netanyahu wants to terrorize the entire Middle East. Looks like Israel is pushing for a war, and I bet he gets it. BTW, Netanyahu doesn't give a damn about the USA or the Obama Administration. Sorry, I made a mistake. I meant to say, "ISRAEL doesn't give a damn about America, only what it can get from the USA."

And Netanyahu has shown disrespect toward the Obama Administration once again. I bet a world-class racism chaser like yourself can sniff out the reason, WHY?

You would think that a people like the Israelis who went through the horrors of the Holocaust would restrain themselves from terrorizing and murdering other people who have little more than rocks to throw.

I have had it with Israel and you should be fed up too, Field. But I have never known you to 'ever' admit a mistake even in the face of 'criminal' evidence.... Must be a 'criminal' lawyer thing.

Have you considered moving to Israel? I am sure Netanyahu can find a nice place for you along the Gaza strip. Among the Palestinians, of course. Isralis don't like Blacks-but you already knew that years ago. You need some serious counseling from Clarence Thomas or CF.

I hope the International Community prosecutes the hell out of Israel for its war crimes. And there are plenty.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] Sophia said...
Will you explain why you lean toward the Israeli side of the equation please? I am interested. Thanks.
[/quote]

If you don't mind, please allow me to chime in.

There are two people to consider as "friends".

On the one hand you have an "oppressed" people who some on the left connect with.

Next you have a second group of people who control a state of their own. THEY TOO retain the claim to the "Oppressed People".

From my own standpoint I choose to look beyond the one country in question and instead look at the ENTIRE REGION. Beyond the context of this one country those who are in line with THE OPPRESSED are also the OPPRESSORS. They have no respect for diversity in these other areas.

In this expanded area me (the United States) have individuals who have worked against my interests. They lean upon ME, demanding me to be neutral when this won't assure their friendship to me after I acquiesce to their will.


"How is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians any different than South Africa's Apartheid?"

PLEASE!!!!

INSIDE of Israel the Palestinians have far, far, far more rights than anything that you can point to as compared to the Apartheid era Blacks in South Africa.

Once again I challenge you to judge Israel based upon the REGION and thus the context. I saw a documentary about the "Christians in Egypt". The Islamic government of Egypt confiscated all of their pigs and slaughtered them in the name of "Swine Flu" protection. These Christians are at the lower rung of the economic order there, largely SANITATION WORKERS. The pig was an integral part of their culture and economic system were taken away by the government without any form of compensation.

It is fraudulent and intellectually dishonest to focus on Israel while looking past how non-Muslims are treated in the nations surrounding Israel.

You want to enforce "diversity" upon Israel all the while its neighbors are some of the most intolerant and oppressive governments on the planet.

Constructive Feedback said...

Israel greatly mishandled this situation.

As early as 2 weeks ago "Democracy Now" (which I monitor every day) was reporting about this flotilla. On the one hand a government official warned the group that their entry in violation of the published blockade would see seen as a hostile act.

On the other hand Israel has failed to set up some sort of process by which the goods that are on the boats could be determined to be "humanitarian goods" and allowed entry into the country.

Now Israel will be put on the defensive as 10 people were killed.

This has unified Israel's enemies and will put pressure on the Obama Administration to take a swipe at Israel. I am sure he won't disappoint.

Oh Crap said...

I know how you feel, Field. Personally, I'm sick of the fake leftism that crawls in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood et al....do people really think MB/Hamas cares about us any more than nutball Zionist extremists? Please.

Anonymous said...

coffee, Be honest with yourself. Why didn't they agree to the deal Clinton offered them? I know the answer, Do you?

OISRAEL said...

what happen 2 comment I left?

coffee and cigarettes said...

anon 3:50 am..nope, please enlighten me?

CF two wrongs don't make a right.

Ofcourse the treatment of minorities and non-muslims in the ME should NEVER be ignored. The kurds in iran/iraq/syria/turkey, the christians in egypt, the baha'i in Iran, immigrant workers in saudi arabia and the status of WOMEN in alot of these places are all legitimate causes of grievance. However, this still doesn't justify israels actions. And I would argue that palestinians in the gaza strip currently face the worst living conditions out of any other persecuted population in the ME.

field negro said...

"How is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians any different than South Africa's Apartheid?"

That's not a serious question.
Do you know the history of that region? Why don't you read up on your history and get back to me.

"on the other hand Israel has failed to set up some sort of process by which the goods that are on the boats could be determined to be "humanitarian goods" and allowed entry into the country.

Now Israel will be put on the defensive as 10 people were killed.

This has unified Israel's enemies and will put pressure on the Obama Administration to take a swipe at Israel. I am sure he won't disappoint."

Damn! A blue moon will be out again tonight. I agree with a lot of what Destructive Said.

"Have you considered moving to Israel? I am sure Netanyahu can find a nice place for you along the Gaza strip. Among the Palestinians, of course. Isralis don't like Blacks-but you already knew that years ago."

Nope. Sorry, too hot in Gaza. Although I do love middle eastern food.

BTW, do you think the Arabs love your black ass? If you do, I have an antique bell here in my hometown to sell you. It has a slight crack in the side, but I am sure you will love it.

I only admit I am wrong when I am actually wrong. And I must admit that it's rare.

Anonymous said...

the ship was in international waters ,,,,international waters .....
how is it you feel isreal justt feels its their right to commit agressive acts like this in international waters

its like they felt they could do anything and get away with it
the physcology thats reflected in this ..is deeply disturbing ....regardless who it is ...
in the same way north koreas recent agression against south korea is

Shady_Grady said...


"How is Israel's treatment of the Palestinians any different than South Africa's Apartheid?"

That's not a serious question.
Do you know the history of that region? Why don't you read up on your history and get back to me.


Sorry Field, I think you're way off base on this.

If you read the analysis of the people who actually lived through apartheid they generally state that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is similar to or worse than apartheid South Africa.

Check out what Desmond Tutu had to say or for that matter Mandela and other people who were on the ground during apartheid's worst days. The comparison is wholly apt. Let's not forget that Israel also transferred weapons and technology to apartheid South Africa. But that's neither here nor there.

Again, the point is that Israel attacked a humanitarian ship in international waters. That's illegal and morally degenerate. All else is obfuscation. This is not about loving Arabs or hating Jews any more than anti-apartheid activists hated white people. This is about right and wrong.

Anonymous said...

As I stated before House Negro is a fake the same rights he bitch about daily on his blog are the same rights Palestinians yearn for.
The Israel and South Africa Apartheid for you is not a serious question.
House Negro you want justice for you and but you try to deny Palestinians the same justice.
Get back in da house MASTA need his shoe shine.

Frank Drackman said...

Yay Israel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:):):):):):)

Blackmoses said...

field....darn....I guess you even have a blind spot. It is House Negro behavior to not recognize the excesses of the Israeli government.
When Jimmy Carter wrote the book " Palestine Peace Not Apartheid " it enraged many supporters of the state of Israel because it rang so true.
Field the ship was in International waters. The Israeli military clearly stepped beyond their boundaries. Maintain your position Field...I need you to maintain your consistency for upholding truth and righteousness.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]CF two wrongs don't make a right. [/quote]

coffee and cigarettes said...

I am scratching my head trying to figure out how you derived this as a point or even the main point of what I wrote.

I think that you and others misunderstand my arguments in this and other areas.

I am NOT arguing "don't get upset with A because B has waged a similar attack and now they are equal offenders".

I AM only arguing that the regulation that you seek to apply to A should be applied to A, B, C and D in the entire region.

Israel is surrounded by nations that would like nothing more than to see it GONE. "The Land" and its bind to RELIGION is a fact in the entire region.

Why act surprised when a "Jewish State" introduces policies that insure that IT as the REGIONAL MINORITY does not get disposed of by attrition? (Then again I am talking to Gregory - a person who believes that Arizona's attempt to control uncontrolled immigration is RACIST but La Raza's agenda is NOT about their RACE. I won't even talk about the Black civil rights operatives and how clueless they are on the subject. But I digress)

With my friend Filled Negro showing a rare exception on this one point - it seems that there is some ideological linkage where people aren't willing to make note of the need to STAND FIRM UPON THE LAND least someone TAKE IT FROM YOU!!!

Land that you live on that was "taken" via the gun (see Texas, AZ, NM and Cali) or land that was given to you by the United Nations...what matters more than how you obtained this land is your wherewithal to RETAIN CONTROL over this disputed land.

Add to it that both the evil USA and evil Israel have made the land in question more PRODUCTIVE for more PEOPLE than what the others that lay claim to the land can point to in their main body of land - the debate becomes even more suspect.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]If you read the analysis of the people who actually lived through apartheid they generally state that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is similar to or worse than apartheid South Africa.[/quote]

(Note: I am not sure how long Filled Negro is going to be able to stand with his support of Israel as there are so many LEFTIST agenda items tied to one's support for the Palestinians)

Shady Grady:

I don't give a damn what Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu can document about people's FEELINGS!!!!

I challenge you to put forth an above board comparison as a means of justifying your claims about Israeli Apartheid.

Use these points:
1) Human Rights, Genocide & Murder
2) Economic Repression
3) Denial Of Political Participation (especially of the majority vote)

You get a bonus point if you include either Saudi Arabia or Iran in on the comparison and make note that they are free and clear.

Greg L said...

Israel is a Nazi like pariah state. They exist as they do thanks to the largess of the US taxpayer and I, for one, don't want my money given to them. We could end a lot of this overnight if we cut funding. We can't afford it anyway.

Also, the biggest house negroes in the middle east are Mahmood Abbas and Hosni Mubarak. Mubarak helps enforce this illegal blockaide while Abbas is foolish enough to say that this incident should'nt derail peace talks.


Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion in 2003 dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”

- John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"



http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/114bill.html

JP said...

Field, It won't be an instantaneous conversion but I am suspecting that due to your training, education, life experiences, and basic intelligence that you will be on the lookout for information in the future to test your current position. I don't think it's a misplaced trust. We're certainly on different sides of the argument on this one. If wisdom is the ability to Not jump to conclusions, a trait of a good attorney, I've got my bet on your ability to re-evaluate over time.

Anonymous said...

You ask that people do their homework yet you give anecdotal reasons for supporting Israel.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Israel is a Nazi like pariah state. They exist as they do thanks to the largess of the US taxpayer and I, for one, don't want my money given to them. We could end a lot of this overnight if we cut funding. We can't afford it anyway.[/quote]

Brother Greg L - you are hurting me on this one.

I agree that Israel is acting like a "North Korea" in that it feels that the world is against it and it ends up doing things that are counter to its own image in the process.

You are correct that Israel receives a boatload of US foreign aid. You should also mention that Egypt and several other nations in the region are big time recipients on this list just as well.

The Israeli Lobby in the USA insure that their nation receives due regard for the nation's interests. With the number of wealthy and influential Jews in this nation - regardless of the protests - they are going to insure that these interests are protected.

There are many Jews who wish to reign Israel in (Noam Chomski, Amy Goodman, etc). They are of the mistaken belief that by keeping Israel in check, the "oppressed people" that suffer at the hands of Israel will " stop attacking".

Brother Greg L - THIS IS THE game of "Chicken" that is being played. Few people will ever bother to circle back around to make note whether or not the random missile attacks into Israel will stop if "Israel behaves itself".

This entire issue is nothing more than the power relationship between the "Authority figure" (ie: police, US Military, etc) and the "Oppressed". People tend to EXPECT that the "authority" should "know better" and thus not act in a reactionary manner as they accept from "the Least Of These" who are oppressed.

Cut the funding to Israel and the world will see exactly how the "Peace Loving Religion Of Islam" is indeed "peaceful". :-/

This would be akin to defunding the US DEA in one's hope to end the "War On Drugs". They focus upon the "Authority" but don't have any messages for "the Least Of These" who are on the opposing side.

coffee and cigarettes said...

CF

"Israel is surrounded by nations that would like nothing more than to see it GONE."

Turkey, Egypt, and Jordan have all signed peace-treaties with Israel. The remaining two neighbouring countries, Lebanon and Syria, have not. However they definitely are not about to attack Israel and are not a threat to its existence. So that statement is incorrect.

If anything, it is israels neighbouring countries that might possibly have a reason to be scared. Israel holds 2-300 nuclear weapons and has shown time and time again that it has no respect for the international community.


"it seems that there is some ideological linkage where people aren't willing to make note of the need to STAND FIRM UPON THE LAND least someone TAKE IT FROM YOU!!!"

So you're saying that Israel was defending itself?

Sorry but establishing a blockade illegal by international law is not defending yourself. Attacking a humanitarian ship trying to cross this illegal blockade is not defending yourself. Expanding illegal settlements in Gaza and killing 1,200 palestinians in the Gaza offensive in 09 also do not fall under this category.

"Add to it that both the evil USA and evil Israel have made the land in question more PRODUCTIVE for more PEOPLE than what the others that lay claim to the land can point to in their main body of land - the debate becomes even more suspect."

Are you saying that the ends justify the means? I do not believe that they do. And if by productive you mean rich and prosperous...Saudi Arabia is rich and prosperous. So was apartheid South Africa. Does this fact make them less morally represhensible?

Also, i do not believe that the US or Israel are 'evil.' I love the US..but I will critize every American action that i believe to be wrong.

Ask yourself an honest question CF: If the situation was reversed, and HAMAS(the palestinian equivalent of Netanyahu) had done this instead, what would you say then?

Keith said...

footage from the incident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded

no_slappz said...

It's no surprise that so many poster here are clearly and deeply anti-Semitic. Oh well.

As usual, when it comes to judging Israel and Jews, special standards are set. And, of course, the standards are constructed so Jews always fall short.

Then there is the ever-present ignorance on the topic of the nation of Palestine that has never existed.

Worse, the never-never land of Palestine gave the world a group of refugees after the formation of Israel in 1948. In the real world of refugees, only the people who actually fled from contested land are defined as refugees.

But the never-never people of Palestine who left Israel in 1948 have multiplied. The number of never-never Palestinians has grown from about 500,000 in 1948 to 4 million today. Amazing. Simply amazing.

If, for example, those 500,000 arab muslims had fled Israel and landed in the US, all future generations would have been -- AMERICANS.

If the nations surrounding Israel had granted them the same terms of citizenship, they would be Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Saudis, etc.

But the neighboring muslim countries refused to allow them in on that basis.

This refusal is part of the insane demand known as the Right of Return. Theses screwball muslims -- all 4 million of the never-never Palestinians -- want the right to return to Israel as full citizens with voting rights.

How long would the Israeli democracy last with 4 million muslim voters swamping the ballot boxes?

Anyway, the unfortunate incident off Gaza is entirely the fault of Turkey. Israel offered to allow the arrival of humanitarian cargo after it was inspected for weapons. Israel's offer was refused and the ships sailed.

It's too bad the thugs on board were killed. But, muslims always bungle things this way.

Muslim nations are devoid of creativity and innovation. Muslims invent nothing, they manufacture almost nothing and they have added nothing to the intellectual advancement of the world for more than a 1,000 years. Their record is almost as bad as it gets.

They never win Nobel Prizes for intellectual pursuits. On the other hand, Yassar Arafat received a Nobel Peace Prize, which tells you that corruption has overtaken that award.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] So that statement is incorrect.[/quote]

Good thing that you were not a "Native America" alive about 150 years ago as they held a CONTRACT in hand regarding the retention of their land, such as the "Black Hills".

Your contract might be preserved in some museum - along with the blood stain that came from your body.


[quote]
If anything, it is israels neighbouring countries that might possibly have a reason to be scared. Israel holds 2-300 nuclear weapons and has shown time and time again that it has no respect for the international community.[/quote]

I, a Black male, owns 3 guns. MY NEIGHBORS need not fear my ownership of weapons. I pose no OFFENSIVE THREAT to them per my ownership.

Now a Street Pirate who might choose to do a Home Invasion and thus end up with a "cap in his azz"....THEY need to be worried.

It is stunning that Iran advertises its nuclear production as a "wolf ticket".

Israel - which has likely had Nukes for more than 30 years has kept its' "piece" hidden.

It takes operatives like those on "Democracy Now" to expose Israel's nukes as they ask "If this is a Nuke free zone why does Israel have them? Why not allow Iran to have them then?"

[quote]Ask yourself an honest question CF: If the situation was reversed, and HAMAS(the palestinian equivalent of Netanyahu) had done this instead, what would you say then?[/quote]

TODAY I say about Israel: "What the hell are you all doing? You have stepped in it bad this time. You have united your enemies and critics against you".

(Note: I just read where they had already agreed to accept in the humanitarian aid for shipment to Gaza prior to the military incursion. Even after the military operation they unloaded the wheel chairs and delivered them.

Israeli Military had no need to board the ship)

IF HAMAS HAD DONE THIS:
My message would be the SAME!!
You have executed an event that triggered due condemnation.

Both sides are motivated to damn the other's offenses. This tit for tat is going to continue until "Jesus" comes back.

Anonymous said...

It's no surprise that so many poster here are clearly and deeply anti-Semitic. Oh well.


Show me a single commemt you deem anti-semite

coffee and cigarettes said...

CF

ok, then im struggling to see your point? If you condemn israels actions, why didn't you just say that from the get go? or do you enjoy being vague?

Unfortunately, Jesus isn't coming back any time soon (or in my opinion, ever). Maybe if more televangelists stopped believing that lie they might also stop blindly supporting israel. Evangical support of Israel in America relies heavily on one thing:

the belief that for judgement day to occur, Israel must exist

So they ignore human rights abuses because they think its going to get them into heaven. how ironically (or should i say moronically) funny!

no_slappz said...

coffee and cigarettes, you wrote:

And if by productive you mean rich and prosperous...Saudi Arabia is rich and prosperous.

Your statement shows how little you know of muslim countries in general and Saudi Arabia specifically.

The Saudi royal family is rich. And the family is large. But the vast majority of Saudis are poor.

Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia is NOT productive. All it does is hire westerners to run its oil business that rains money on the royal family.

If the Saudis were "productive", rather than incompetent, there would be a range of growing industries in Saudi Arabia. There are NONE.

Furthermore, when it comes to investing elsewhere around the world, they are money-losing morons. But the never-ending flow of oil money covers up their ridiculousness.

They have NO presence in any technology. There is no muslim computer company, no car companies, no cell phone companies. Nothing.

As always, muslims, Saudis, depend on others to supply everything. It has been this way since the founding of Islam.

For a few centuries muslims were able to conquer others who had goods and services muslims wanted but were incapable of developing themselves.

Most advances attributed to muslims -- 500 to 1,000 years ago -- were actually advances made by Jews who were living in conquered lands. The muslims simply stole the credit.

Anyway, muslims are incompetent at virtually everything except spreading islam. That is one activity at which they are good. But that is bad for the world.

coffee and cigarettes said...

No slappz, you are too funny.
The number you just used..1,000...you recieved from muslim mathematicians. Otherwise you'd still be using roman numerals.

Anonymous said...

They have NO presence in any technology. There is no muslim computer company, no car companies, no cell phone companies. Nothing.
.................................
Le riducule ne tue pas .

no_slappz said...

coffee and cigarettes,

Again, you knowledge is painfully limited and you fail to see the irony of your own comment.

Roughly the last intellectual advancement from muslims was the number ZERO, which occurred about 1,000 years ago. Do you get it? ZERO. And it happened 1,000 years ago.

Meanwhile, you are so dim you think specific tidbits of knowledge can only emerge from one source.

Do you really believe no one else on the planet would have devised a number system to replace the cumbersome Roman Numeral System?

Do you think Newton was the only mathematician thinking about the concept of Calculus? Or motion? He was first. But others -- though none in the muslim world -- were wrestling with the same subjects at the same time.

Islam does not permit thinking that seems to exceed the limits of the Koran's dominance.

no_slappz said...

anonymous,

There are no technical industries in any muslim countries. Every technology in muslim countries is imported. They may BUY computers and BUY cars, but they BUILD nothing.

Well, they stitch clothing together, they weave some rugs and they grow some figs. But that's about it.

Try naming a muslim corporation. Just one.

Anonymous said...

Try naming a muslim corporation. Just one.
------------------------
Try naming a catholic corporation just one.

Kit (Keep It Trill) said...

Field, I will ask you this:

1) have you had face to face or phone conversations with any of your Jewish friends about this, and

2) if so, how many, and

3) what are their opinions?

uptownsteve said...

"Try naming a muslim corporation. Just one.
------------------------
Try naming a catholic corporation just one."

Way to shut him up.

Zoda88 said...

^ You could argue that the entire Catholic church is a corporation. They've made money off their worshipers and the blood and sweat of the people they had killed in the name of their god for years.

BUT SRSLY, I can't think of any.

Yeah Field, you're wrong on this one but this kind of behavior is par for the course when it comes to Israel.

Anonymous said...

"I only admit I am wrong when I am actually wrong. And I must admit that it's rare."

You need some serious therapy. When you and CF are defending a rogue like Israel, you need to check yourself and your heart-because your argument is bullshit and the entire world knows it.

To support Israel, Field must have a deep-seated hatred for the Palestinians. It must be because they are poor and vulnerable...like the Blacks in America.

Field, you are a lover of injustice-a complete phony- who uses heartless twisted arguments like CF to cover up your inhumanity. You and CF were always suspect as blogging buddies.

No amount of "logic and reason" can "justify" Israel's murderous tactics against the Palestinians.
No one wants to hear their bullshit anymore.

Once again, they are preventing the press from gaining knowledge while they spin their 'favorable' story. Israel is another rogue "axis of evil".

Things will be heating up for your murdererous heroes. They have truly isolated themselves in the world. They are marked "murderers", ironically like the Nazis were.

BTW, have you noticed that Netanyahu has a demeanor like Milosevic? He is Israel's attitude toward the International Community, which is, "fuck you."

The world has had its fill of Israel's justified evil tactics, which YOU support.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]If you condemn israels actions, why didn't you just say that from the get go? or do you enjoy being vague?[/quote]

"Condemning" Israel's actions in this regard should not be equated to an outright condemnation of the nation and how being surrounded by individuals who don't want you to exist can some times cause you to act irrationally.

The truth is that BOTH Israel and the Flotilla knew the impending conflict on the sea weeks prior.

IF the goal was to ultimately get humanitarian goods to Gaza why wasn't this set forth as the exclusive mission? (Why 600 individuals on the 6 ships?)

And yes - Why did Israel, which knew about the flotilla feel threatened enough to send helicopters out to interdict the ships outside of their territorial waters?

As far as JESUS is concerned - what is a LIE to you is a deep seeded belief to others.

no_slappz said...

anonymous,

It is the ignorance of people like you who aide and abet the lunacy of islam.

The muslim corporation question comes from the simple fact that there are muslim states, which means there are muslim economies, which means there are businesses that operate in those muslim economies.

To operate in a muslim economy, a business must abide by muslim law. But because islam and muslim law dominate the muslim countries the countries produce almost nothing internally. Transportation? Communications? All imported.

You would think that nations with money to burn would make great places to start business. But oil-rich muslim nations are totally and completely devoid of technical innovation.

Why? In a word: islam.

Creativity is an insult to muhammad.

Inasmuch as there are NO Christian theocracies in the world, or nations that derive their legal systems from the Bible, there are no nations that can be described as having Christian economies. Thus, no Christian corporations.

If you had any sense about government and economics, you would begin to realize the value of separating Church and State.

We do. The muslims do not.

coffee and cigarettes said...

No Slappz

"The Saudi royal family is rich. And the family is large. But the vast majority of Saudis are poor."

Saudi Arabia has above world GDP. In 2009 it was listed 38th by the IMF. The average income in Saudi Arabia is $20,700 while in Israel it is $28,000. Pretty comparable.


"Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia is NOT productive. All it does is hire westerners to run its oil business that rains money on the royal family."

I didn't say it was productive, I said it was rich and prosperous and asked CF if that was what he meant when he called israel productive. The average income of the two countries is similar.

And there is no anti-semitism here. No one has said anything anti semitic. the only hate here has been islamophobic, and by you.

I really can't be bothered giving you a list of muslim scientists or scientifical achievements mainly because

a) i dont think it proves anything and
b) i think you're a racist idiot

try googling "islamic golden age." you would see that while europe was going through the dark ages and women were being burnt at the stake, the islamic empires from the middle east to africa were flourishing in astronomy, chemistry, and mathermatics. or google 'persian poetry' and you would see that iran has some of the finest poetry traditions in the world.

If you had any deep intellect you would realize that:

a) You also can't prove ethnic superiority by citing corporations and patents or whatever else you're obsessed with

and

b) that the human historical timeline is at times progressive and at times regressive. Some empires are at a certain times more technologically advanced than others, and then they fall and new empires take their place.

Anonymous said...

CF- You, Szpork, Frank and Field are now CHUMS in your defense of Israel. Congratulations!-- and so much for Field being a lover of humanity. When it comes to Israel, you two think like twins: destroy the poor, weak and vulnerable because they are street pirates. And Israel brings your philosophy to life! Or is it death?

Israel is a Jewish Nazi bully bent on wiping out the Palestinians for its own selfish gains. It doesn't care what the International Community thinks, including America. Anyone who screws with them, will face nuclear weapons.

No wonder Iran sees the need for having nuclear weapons.

Don said...

Guess I will have to wait and hear both sides of the story to make a clear call on this one. If Israel began the attack, then it's pretty much deserved.

If not, I can honestly say this about Israel: They have ZERO problem ending whatever another has started.

Looks like Obama has another foreign policy issue under his belt.

Anonymous said...

"Why? In a word: islam."

Please show respect, Slap. Next time make sure you capitalize "Islam".

coffee and cigarettes said...

CF

By 'lie' i didnt mean the belief in jesus, i meant the view that he was coming soon and that we are living in the last days-which seems to be propagated by some televangelists.

Tomas said...

The facts are that Israel went into international waters to attack a flotilla that the whole world knew was going to happen weeks if not months ago.

Israel was not in any military attack scare. They continue to oppress the Palestinian and anyone who is waiting for the facts are just waiting for an Israeli explanation that they will justify such actions and that the world will forget.

Thrasher said...

At end of the day it is about my community interests not others..

I never can understand why Black folks like FN feel compelled to tell us he will defend others!!!

When was the last time a White person, jewish, arab, asian, latino, etc alert to the world how they will defend Black FOLKS???

FN's PSA again reveals to me how we as Black folks remain damaged and contaminated by the legacy of slavery...It saddens me but such is life nothing to lose sleep over of course..

no_slappz said...

coffee and cigarettes,

The per-capita GDP of Saudi Arabia is an AVERAGE figure. However, Saudi Arabia is a monarchy which means the royal family has all the money, because the oil is theirs, and everyone else has little or nothing.

Their idea of education is studying the Koran. Despite claims to the contrary, they do not study much science or engineering. The only Saudis who obtain an education that measures up to western standards are those Saudis who go to school in England, the US and a few other places.

But most return to Saudi and make no use of their knowledge.

You wrote:

I really can't be bothered giving you a list of muslim scientists or scientifical achievements mainly because

a) i dont think it proves anything


There is no list of muslim scientists. However, the few muslim scientists that appear on your list were people who lived over 500 years ago, when scientific knowledge was so limited that one person could know all of it.

But the more important part of the problem lies in the fact that islam is anti-intellectual, which is why muslims contribute nothing.

For a few hundred years after muhammad died the knowledge of the world, within islam, was too limited to insult the leadership position of muhammad and the Koran. But as knowledge advanced, it overshadowed islam and islam reacted by enforcing itself -- which means the religion passed judgment on permissible activities.

Science and technology lost out. The actual publication and printing of Korans on presses in the middle east is a relatively new practice. Gutenberg built his printing press around 1450. A few hundred years passed before those presses found their way into the muslim world.

You wrote:

If you had any deep intellect you would realize that:

a) You also can't prove ethnic superiority by citing corporations and patents or whatever else you're obsessed with


Propserity is a product of intellectual achievement. Like it or not, it says good things about a culture. But the muslim culture has none of it. There is no civil society in the muslim world. It devotes itself to islam and nothing more.

You wrote:

b) that the human historical timeline is at times progressive and at times regressive. Some empires are at a certain times more technologically advanced than others, and then they fall and new empires take their place.

I guess this is how you rationalize your expectation for an intellecutal flowering in Africa. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. Not there, and not in the muslim world, which is largely devoted to a return to the 7th century.

George said...

Interesting fact: the Hamas rocket attacks between 2001 and 2008, that horrific crime for which Lebanon was invaded, killed 15 people. Israel have killed at least 16 civilians in one night, by the logic of Israel Turkey now have the right to crush Israel with tanks, guns and bombs.



As a side note, Field, your position on Israel is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. You say that Israelis kicking Palestinians out of their home is okay because there are other places for them to go. Imagine if some white people decided they wanted to live in your house, they said 'hey, mr. Field, we're sorry but black people can't live in philly anymore, its okay though because you can go to Memphis or Atlanta or New Orleans or some other nigger town, now take your shit and get the fuck out of my new house'. You think that would be fair? would you pack up your stuff and leave your home or would you fight for it?

coffee and cigarettes said...

No slappz, you have an uncanny ability to present total falsehoods as facts.

Firstly, I didn't single out Saudi Arabia as a model state..i singled it out as a morally represhensible state. It has a very similar average income to 'productive' israel, so i asked CF if this could justify human rights abuses.


"There is no civil society in the muslim world. it devotes itself to islam and nothing more."

Your claims are absurd.

Do you realize that the muslim world represents over 20% of the human population? Thats 1.3 billion human beings. Out of 47 muslim majority nations, 18 are totally secular. And more are secularizing.

"I guess this is how you rationalize your expectation for an intellecutal flowering in Africa. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. Not there"

Pray tell, why not exactly? Africa has had many intellectual flowerings through out history, and believe me it will have many more. Some of the most influential intellectuals, artists and political figures of the modern era have been and are african...

Franz Fanon, Alexander Dumas, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Nelson Mandela, Patrice Lumumba, Booker T Washington, Rosa Parks, Maya Angelou, Alice Walker, WEB Du Bois..do you want me to go on?

Africas also had its share of empires, from the ancient egyptian empire which was the earliest and longest lasting in the world, to the ethiopian empire and mali empires in the middle ages. At the moment most of the continent in bad shape..but what exactly does this mean? does it say something inherent about africans? what about those eastern european countries in bad shape..does this say something about them? Or the violence perpetuated by whites in africa, america and australia..does this say something about white people?

If we all followed your logic, we could make a lot of stupid assumptions about every ethnicity-europeans included.

mellaneous said...

Brother Field you know we disagree on this one.I strongly suggest that if you get a chance to visit the West Bank you do so. The US press has done a great job of downplaying the reality of the Isreali occupation. I will tell you this my brother however you want to view it, you personally would not stand for what goes on,on a daily basis in the occupied territories.

You are usually open minded to some extent, so I urge you to open your mind to the real live human rights violations that are taking place in Afro-Asia (the middle east). I strongly suggest you read the history of the formation of Israel. Read both a conservative perspective and read a more liberal minded history from a Jewish person themselves.

This is too important of an issue to judge based on what you saw in one incident, by an Arab. Israelis have killed thousands of women and children over the years who were unarmed. The Isreali atrocities simply have not been made available to you to see, but they are many. The Isreali government has killed over ten times more Palestinans than the other way around. They have even killed peace activists who were simply trying to encourage a halt to the killing and oppression.

I have to take issue with statements like the one the pork guy made, saying casually that the Palestinians have no more right to the land than the Isrealis.

The formation of that statement ignores the fact that it was the Isrealis, not the Palestinians that tried and succeeded in making it a one ethnicity state. And they did it by terrorizing the Arab population.

I have freinds who have visited the West Bank and Gaza, I saw the pictures after the West Bank and Gaza incursions. The damage and destruction are hard to comprehend.

The Palestinians are cut off my brother from making a living in many cases even their water is being rationed.

I strongly suggest that you read the history of Zionism and read the theory of it especially by Theodore Herzyl.

There is an occupation going on. And if you think there was hatred as you witnessed by the Arabs you should see it on the other side. And you must keep in mind that it was Israel that sought to form a state and then claim a land that for the most part both groups lived peacefully in before 1948.

The Palestinians deserve your best effort and understanding about this situation. It is not just a matter of one side hating another.

And the reason Isreal catches more hell than the monarchic and backwards Arab states is that they are not as hypocritical they don't claim to be a democracy while practicing state terrorism.

CF is right many of the Arab states don't have a leg to stand on but Israel claims to be a democracy and a beacon of light in the world but the murderous incursions into Gaza and the West Bank expose the inconsistency with that position.

Field I strongly urge you to take another look at this situation. Read what the forward thinking Israelis have been saying. The Isreali human rights activist have called their govt out on their actions lots of times. And this policy of isolating the Palestinians did not begin with Netanyhu.

And let me say I think the Palestinans took the wrong route when they resorted to terrorism but who am I to judge. I also disagree with the Hamas position its foolish and doesn't help them to move forward, toward a real solution which at this point has to be the creation of two states.

And give this a lot of thought as well you find yourself agreeing almost wholeheartedly with the most backward posters on your blog, unconstructive feedback and szpork. That in itself along with your good "Yawdie" common sense should give you pause.

Anonymous said...

I co-sign with coffee and cigarettes.

And might I add that Turkey was, up until this weekend, an ally of Israel. They are the most progressive Muslim country in that region and the collapse of their support for Israel is huge. Israel has really messed up this time.

CC is right, the Israeli right to exist ship has sailed. But they cannot be allowed to bully and terrorize Palestinians. Palestinian leadership have pulled their share of bone-headed moves as well but remember, Israel has the superior military and firepower and they must learn to use that power judiciously.

M. Rigmaiden said...

"
No amount of "logic and reason" can "justify" Israel's murderous tactics against the Palestinians. "
Anonymous

You are more than right Anonymous. I trip when I see glaring blind spots in supposed liberal ideology. The Israelis treat Black people like shit btw. FN you ever been to Israel? My Grandpa used to go almost every year until the Anti Defamation League put his ass on the 'No Fly List' which was a bear to fight...Anyhow the last time he went to Israel, they visited the Black Hebrews and were shown a lot of marginalization of people of color out there.

Sometimes they roundup African immigrants looking for work, exploit them, then detain them illegally.

I don't believe that Israel has a 'right' to be there as a country any more than Liberia had a 'right' to be started for very similar reasons a century ago.

The chickens are coming home to roost and it ain't pretty. The raid on the flotilla showed that the evil the Jews were running from has infiltrated their ranks of government. But this is what happens when people feel as though their right to land supercedes others rights; you get war.

Anonymous said...

Looks like Obama is siding with Israel on this. So.....

szpork

Anonymous said...

Don't confuse Jews with Israel. A bunch of right wing Christians are some of Israel's biggest supporters and plenty in the Jewish diaspora are not fans of the Israeli government and are outspoken about it. When you veer into that land, you are getting into anti-semitism land. I am opposed to Israeli policies and I loathe Bibi, but I don't feel that way about Jewish people.

This what I hate. You get labeled an anti-semite for opposing Israeli policies then some wing nut comes along and tries to make the case that it really is about Jews. It's not. Get out of here with that crap.

While I appreciate your granddad's experience, he should have gone to black nations where black folks treat other black folks worse than dirt. No one race or ethnicity has a corner on the market for being a pig. You don't have to travel any further than Haiti to see it.

Anonymous said...

Anon, that's why the work Zionist exists. What's even stranger is that you can be an atheist Jew. They're really from Africa, of course. As the desert grew larger, they moved east to the Nile. Locations in Africa were on the short list of places to relocate.

szpork

maria said...

RM said:
"I trip when I see glaring blind spots in supposed liberal ideology."

i'm wondering what you mean by this. conservatives and republicans alike have knocked each other over to prove who loves israel more. they have blindly stood by israel side by side with "liberals." it's what they do to get elected--both parties. i find it disgusting. if i'm wrong, please show me where.

i'm a liberal--i do not support israel's many humanitarian atrocities against the palestinians, this one included.

Shady_Grady said...

Hmm. I'm sure this must have been self-defense too, right. And Emily Henochowicz is probably an anti-Semite anyway...

Thrasher said...

FN's loyalty oath to Israel is nit a newsflash in the Black middle class nor with Black immigrants from the islands...Jewish tourism has been very critical of those nation in the islands...

FN's of course as a lawyer has corporate and political realities to appease given the the political, racial, cultural landscape of his profession in our nation...

Yet Since I don't have to spit out a loyalty pledge or oath and since many of my Black jewish friends have related to me many times the racism they have encountered as Black jews I understand both angles..

I affirm Maria's opening comments more than FN's...

no_slappz said...

coffee and cigarettes, you wrote:

Firstly, I didn't single out Saudi Arabia as a model state..i singled it out as a morally represhensible state.

It has a lot in common with other muslim states, which means the other muslim states are also morally reprehensible. Consider their practice of female genital mutilation, for starters.

You wrote:

It has a very similar average income to 'productive' israel, so i asked CF if this could justify human rights abuses.

If Israel had Saudi Arabia's oil, Israel's productivity and prosperity would set world records. As it is, Israel has set the standard for intellectual advancement, while muslim nations remain in their benighted condition.

You wrote:

Do you realize that the muslim world represents over 20% of the human population? Thats 1.3 billion human beings. Out of 47 muslim majority nations, 18 are totally secular. And more are secularizing.

You are clueless when it comes to muslims and muslim countries. Not one muslim country is "secular" in the way we understand it in the US. On the other hand, every muslim country IS hostile to non-muslims, which is why almost all muslim countries are almost 100% muslim or on their way to becoming 100% muslim.

You wrote:

Africa has had many intellectual flowerings through out history, and believe me it will have many more. Some of the most influential intellectuals, artists and political figures of the modern era have been and are african...

Wrong again.

Franz Fanon, Alexander Dumas, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Nelson Mandela, Patrice Lumumba, Booker T Washington, Rosa Parks, Maya Angelou, Alice Walker, WEB Du Bois..do you want me to go on?

Of those on your list, who was born and lived in Africa? Mandela. Anyone else? Meanwhile, Rosa Parks may have been a nice woman, but refusing to get out of a seat on a bus is not the equivalent of formulating a new mathematical theorem.

Your list is meaningless. Not one of those people is a ground-breaking intellectual.

You wrote:

Africas also had its share of empires, from the ancient egyptian empire which was the earliest and longest lasting in the world, to the ethiopian empire and mali empires in the middle ages.

Yeah, one primitive culture after another. Big deal. The entire continent of Africa is going backwards. The muslim influence is gaining, which means the drive to the 7th century is on. Meanwhile, half the people in oil-rich Nigeria are still waiting for their first connection to indoor plumbing and electricity.

You wrote:

At the moment most of the continent in bad shape..but what exactly does this mean? does it say something inherent about africans?

Yes. It says that something is inherently wrong with the people who live there.

You asked:

what about those eastern european countries in bad shape..does this say something about them?

Yes. And guess what? A lot of those troublesome eastern Europeans are muslims.

You asked:

Or the violence perpetuated by whites in africa, america and australia..does this say something about white people?

Which acts of violence? There was that thing in Rwanda where 800,000 blacks were hacked to death by other blacks. No whites in that fight.

Meanwhile, over 50% of murders in the US are committed by blacks who account for only 12% of the population. Do you understand what that means?

Africa is a mess. It has always been a mess, but Africans are only beginning to understand their own mess. As with the muslim countries, there are no industries in Africa. Why? Lots of reasons -- all the fault and the responsibility of Africans themselves.

Soon, Africans will all be muslims, which guarantees a form of failure that is far worse than anything seen in the last couple of hundred years.

mellaneous said...

No SlappZ said:
"It's no surprise that so many poster here are clearly and deeply anti-Semitic. Oh well.

As usual, when it comes to judging Israel and Jews, special standards are set. And, of course, the standards are constructed so Jews always fall short."

Please show proof of what you accuse people of, it appears from your postings that it is you that is the bigot.

Lets face it what you are really saying is shut up and don't criticize Israel. You are a liar you know good and well that criticizing Israel and its backwardness and brutality is not the same as criticizing the Jewish people. When you apologists for all that Israel does stop using that lame excuse to stop folks from criticizing Israel.

You are a bore. You always cover your racist, bigoted, narrow minded ideas with psuedo facts and half truths and sometimes outright lies.

Coffee and Cigarettes is right about you make things up to support your points.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

Field, (off topic)

Al and Tipper Gore are separating after 40 years of marriage! What a shame!

no_slappz said...

It must be news to some of you clowns that groups including Hamas and Hezbollah state in their charters that their goal is to destroy Israel and drive all Jews from the middle east.

Nevertheless, you weirdos support their stated goal of planned terrorism.

The so-called Palestinians are like white supremacists who want all blacks to leave the US for Africa, except for one difference, the white supremacists mostly huddle together and share their little dreams while doing nothing and getting no support from anyone, while Hamas and Hezbollah are the controlling government forces where they operate AND they are hyper violent. Moreover, they are generously funded my muslims from all over the world.

But you clowns think they are the good guys.

mellaneous said...

NO Slappz said:

"But the never-never people of Palestine who left Israel in 1948 have multiplied. The number of never-never Palestinians has grown from about 500,000 in 1948 to 4 million today. Amazing. Simply amazing.

If, for example, those 500,000 arab muslims had fled Israel and landed in the US, all future generations would have been -- AMERICANS.

If the nations surrounding Israel had granted them the same terms of citizenship, they would be Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Saudis, etc.

But the neighboring muslim countries refused to allow them in on that basis.

This refusal is part of the insane demand known as the Right of Return. Theses screwball muslims -- all 4 million of the never-never Palestinians -- want the right to return to Israel as full citizens with voting rights.

How long would the Israeli democracy last with 4 million muslim voters swamping the ballot boxes?"


This is one of the more dishonest arguments you have tried to advance.

So are you now pretending that the Palestinians were not displaced by the Israelis and driven off of their land? Really! Have you read the history of how Israel came to be or did you just make that up?

So what are the refugees to be called biscuits? They are the children of those who were originally dispossesed it changes nothing.

Why don't you just admit that your cherished state wants nothing to do with the Arabs that just happened to be there when Israel decided it was going to form a Jewish state as if no one else was on the land. Thats what you were getting at with your last paragraph.

Israel wants the whole thing and really doesn't want to share on any level with their Palestinian neighbors. You are right a real just solution would mean sharing the land and working it out democratically.

And you weren't crying about folks beating up on Jews. Those who try to defend what can't be defended deserve no respect.

There is a sizable peace movement in Israel that clearly does not agree with your made up version of events.

You are a joke always making up stuff that's not true to back up your ideological backwardness and amorality.

And to suggest that a whole continent does not have intellectual acuity or that won't have it in the future is just racist projection. How do you know the limits of peoples abilities. Did someone make you God?

no_slappz said...

mellaneous, you wrote:

Please show proof of what you accuse people of, it appears from your postings that it is you that is the bigot.

It is the support for the Palestinians that reveals your anti-Semitism.

Inasmuch as there was NEVER a nation of Palestine, there were NEVER Palestinians. As far as the inhabitants of the region who have fooled people like you into calling them Palestinians, they are nothing more than muslims. Arab muslims.

You support them. You support muslims -- people identified by their religion. You support them in their openly stated quest of destroying Israel and driving all Jews from the region.

By holding your position, you cannot be anything but an anti-Semite.

no_slappz said...

mellaneous,

If you do not know about the Right of Return, then your ignorance on the subject of Israel and the middle east is profound.

As for refugees -- well, once again your lack of knowledge puts you in the camp of ignorance.

With the ONE, Solitary exception of Palestinians -- the offspring of refugees are themselves NOT refugees.

As I said, if the "Palestinians" had landed in the US in 1948, all their children born in America would have been Americans. Thus, the number of refugees would have followed the normal pattern of shrinking as the older refugees died. Even so, it is likely most would have become citizens of the US had they landed here.

Consider the Vietnamese Boat People. Or the 125,000 Cubans Castro released from jail and came here in the 1980 Mariel Boat Lift. Or the Cubans who have gotten themselves into the US in other ways. Their kids are Americans. Cuban Americans, but Americans nonetheless.

And one day, perhaps soon, they will have the chance to reclaim their family property in Cuba. Fidel is close to death and his brother will start to make some changes. If Cuba follows the path set by East Germany, it will eventually return property to those who owned it before the communist takeover.

Anonymous said...

These were the "bomb-making materials and weapons" the flotilla was transporting.


sage, cardamom, cumin, coriander, ginger, jam, halva, vinegar, nutmeg, chocolate, fruit preserves, seeds and nuts, biscuits and sweets, potato chips, gas for soft drinks, dried fruit, fresh meat, plaster, tar, wood for construction, cement, iron, glucose, industrial salt, plastic/glass/metal containers, industrial margarine, tarpaulin, sheets for huts, fabric (for clothing), flavor and smell enhancers, fishing rods, various fishing nets, buoys, ropes for fishing, nylon nets for greenhouses, hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries, spare parts for tractors, dairies for cowsheds, irrigation pipe systems, ropes to tie greenhouses planters for saplings, heaters for chicken farms, musical instruments, size A4 paper, writing implements, notebooks, newspapers, toys, razors, sewing machines and spare parts, heaters, horses, donkeys, goats, cattle, and chicks


It must have been the chocolate? Hmm maybe the Palestinians have figured out a way to make bombs from chocolate

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]When it comes to Israel, you two think like twins: destroy the poor, weak and vulnerable because they are street pirates. And Israel brings your philosophy to life! Or is it death? [/quote]

Anon #125:

The only lust that I have in "destroying the poor" is to promote the means by which they can become UNPOOR and/or the UN-Least of These.

Here is what I don't understand about you lefties.

In Gaza and the West Bank - IF the governing forces over the people forced the masses to FOCUS ON WITHIN - building up their infrastructure and processes so that they would become strong and self-sustainable this would garner the focus of the people.

BUT WAIT, but WAIT - I agree that for a large measure Gaza did indeed build up their infrastructure prior to the Israeli bombing that took place about 2 years ago.

What you fail to make note of in this tale is that while they built up their infrastructure they also failed to REIGN IN THEIR INDEPENDENT OPERATIVES SHOOTING MISSILES INTO ISRAEL. They created for themselves an "International Incident".

With the forces in Gaza failing to regulate their people's actions in this regard they gave Israel cover to claim that their attack was justified. Their logic being "If YOU don't stop them then they are 'doing this in your name'"

[quote]
Israel is a Jewish Nazi bully bent on wiping out the Palestinians for its own selfish gains
[/quote]

What GAINS is Israel seeking Anon #125?

Theft of land in Lebanon, Syria Jordan and Egypt?

Someone said:

If the nations that surround Israel unilaterally disarmed - THERE WOULD BE PEACE in the entire Middle East.

If Israel unilaterally disarmed their would be mass slaughter of all Jewish people in Israel, removing them from the land.

Beyond the question of MY SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL is the knowledge of WHO STANDS WITH AMERICA versus who would cut us loose once they get us to do what they want.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]The Israelis treat Black people like shit btw. [/quote]

MR:

Negroes functioning as STREET PIRATES treat Black people who have the misfortune of being around them like shit.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

Is the treatment by the Jew SUPERIOR or something?

trickster206 said...

How many Americans were wounded by our so-called ally?

mellaneous said...

CF are you suggesting that Isreali mistreatment of black folks is okay because some black folks mistreat one another.

Man you can sure advance some weak arguments.

No Slapz (AKA the liar) said:

"It is the support for the Palestinians that reveals your anti-Semitism."

Are you really that shallow and ignorant. I just pointed out that you can't call someone anti-semitic because they disagree with you.

You can yell it all you want but its still not true and I will continue to assert my right to call out the Isreali's for their mistreatment of the Palestinians.

Call the folks who lived in Palestine before 1948 who were not Jews what you want, but the point is that they were living there before their Zionist neighbors decided to claim the land for themselves.

I don't know why you keep trying to argue against something they have already admitted they stole the land. Those they could not buy off or out they simply terrorized and then eventually ran off the land.

And for this reason they indeed do have the Right of return to their original land. Now because the Israeli's refuse to acknowledge this does not make it any more real.

Dark Frosty said...

It's from a European news source so it should be acceptable to the racists:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html

That is all

mellaneous said...

Field I just really noticed your opening statement. So let me say that I too am a defender of the Jewish people, but it is not the same as defending the actions of Israel.

Condemning Isreal and condemning Jewish people is not the same thing. Condemning being prejudiced or bigoted against Jewish people simply because they are Jewish is anti-semitism.

However criticising the actions of the state of Israel is not in any form anti-semitism. This is a tired old ruse used by those who support Israel to quiet its opposition.

mellaneous said...

NO Slapz said:

"You support them. You support muslims -- people identified by their religion. You support them in their openly stated quest of destroying Israel and driving all Jews from the region.

By holding your position, you cannot be anything but an anti-Semite."

For the record so that it is clear I do not support the position stated above or driving Jews from anywhere. I don't see how two wrongs would make a right. I support what I think is obvious the right for Isreal to exist. It already does. I do however disagree with the way it came into being and its policies towards its neighbors.

Slap you should read what other folks write before you go accusing them, but thats not your aim is it. No your aim is not intellectual debate or discussion but your aim is sending out misinformation to support your bigoted world view.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]CF are you suggesting that Isreali mistreatment of black folks is okay because some black folks mistreat one another.[/quote]

Seriously Mellaneious - how do you LOGICALLY conclude that this was my argument based upon my post?

I suggested that there is EQUALITY in the ASSAULT or IGNORANCE shown upon Black people.

I asked why MR is apparently more hurt by what she proclaims Jews do to Blacks as compared to what other categories of people display.

In my frame of reference I was asking her to be EQUALLY contemptuous over such mistreatment of Blacks REGARDLESS of whom is the offender.

YOU molested my point, arguing that we should be quiet about how others treat us UNTIL we treat ourselves properly. Where did you get this notion from?

Anonymous said...

Slap is trying to stifle debate but throwing around the term anti-semitism he has no legitimate argument to put forth just scare-tactics. He should be ignored.

Anonymous said...

"Defamation League put his ass on the 'No Fly List' which was a bear to fight...Anyhow the last time he went to Israel, they visited the Black Hebrews and were shown a lot of marginalization of people of color out there.

Sometimes they roundup African immigrants looking for work, exploit them, then detain them illegally."

Yes, you are exactly right. They learned a lot of illegal and IMMORAL methods from their first hand experience of shipping and selling slaves(Africans) to the South in A-merry-Ca and Jamaica...Field's home.

Unfortunately, Field has been brainwashed much like Clarence Thomas and CF.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

Poor Slappy confusing conjecture with facts:
con·jec·ture
   [kuhn-jek-cher] Show IPA noun, verb,-tured, -tur·ing.
–noun
1.
the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.
2.
an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation.

It has a lot in common with other muslim states, which means the other muslim states are also morally reprehensible. Consider their practice of female genital mutilation, for starters.
How common is female genital mutilation? How many muslim countries practice female genital mutilation.


If Israel had Saudi Arabia's oil, Israel's productivity and prosperity would set world records. As it is, Israel has set the standard for intellectual advancement, while muslim nations remain in their benighted condition.
CONJECTURE

You are clueless when it comes to muslims and muslim countries. Not one muslim country is "secular" in the way we understand it in the US. On the other hand, every muslim country IS hostile to non-muslims, which is why almost all muslim countries are almost 100% muslim or on their way to becoming 100% muslim.
Have you ever been to Bahrain? I have and I had friends that lived there for over 20 years because they worked for Shell Oil and Aramco. (I too worked at Aramco.) Bahrain is pretty secular.
ad hominem followed by more CONJECTURE.

C & S wrote:
Africa has had many intellectual flowerings through out history, and believe me it will have many more. Some of the most influential intellectuals, artists and political figures of the modern era have been and are african...

Your reply:
Wrong again.
You didn't even try on this one.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

CONT:

Of those on your list, who was born and lived in Africa? Mandela. Anyone else? Meanwhile, Rosa Parks may have been a nice woman, but refusing to get out of a seat on a bus is not the equivalent of formulating a new mathematical theorem.

Your list is meaningless. Not one of those people is a ground-breaking intellectual.

Interesting how Camus, Sartre and Rand are considered philosophical intellects, yet the people C & S named aren't. Plus, you seem to only equate intelligence with math or science which shows just how narrow-minded you are. 1) Because there are 12 types of intelligence and 2) There are black scientists and inventors.


Yeah, one primitive culture after another. Big deal. The entire continent of Africa is going backwards. The muslim influence is gaining, which means the drive to the 7th century is on. Meanwhile, half the people in oil-rich Nigeria are still waiting for their first connection to indoor plumbing and electricity.

Spent a lot of time in Nigeria have you? More CONJECTURE.


Yes. It says that something is inherently wrong with the people who live there.

Racist rhetoric.


Yes. And guess what? A lot of those troublesome eastern Europeans are muslims.

And a lot of them aren't.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

CONT:
Which acts of violence? There was that thing in Rwanda where 800,000 blacks were hacked to death by other blacks. No whites in that fight.

Meanwhile, over 50% of murders in the US are committed by blacks who account for only 12% of the population. Do you understand what that means?

It means that many blacks are socioeconomically disadvantaged i.e. poor. Prison is full of poor people, black, white and latino. The rate of violent crimes drop dramatically for all three groups when in the middle class and the upper middle class. More linear incomplete thought processes.

Africa is a mess. It has always been a mess, but Africans are only beginning to understand their own mess. As with the muslim countries, there are no industries in Africa. Why? Lots of reasons -- all the fault and the responsibility of Africans themselves.

And the fault of the colonialist that broke up existing ways of governing, split up tribal affiliations, set up their own government (on other people's land), ruled for hundreds of years while denying the natives a role in government -- only to discard the country and leave. If people weren't allowed to have a role in government for hundreds of year, how could they rule effectively in only 50 and in some countries 25 years?

Soon, Africans will all be muslims, which guarantees a form of failure that is far worse than anything seen in the last couple of hundred years
CONJECTURE. Lord, you really are a bore. P.S. Saying everyone who doesn't agree with you "knows nothing" doesn't make your argument more true.

Frank Drackman said...

C-C-C-C-an't we all just get along???
I mean, how can you watch "Raid on Entebbe" and pull for the A-rabs??
And the A-rabs put the "Semen" in anti-Sementic, I mean, in little Boys. They suck, literally, and Netanyahoo would be doin the world a favor if he'd just Nuke Turkey,Egypt, Libya, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain, Pakistan, and any other "Stans" I left out. Y'all N-words wanta live under Sharia' law, Egypt Air's ready when you are.

Frank "I Heart Israel" Drackman

field negro said...

"As a side note, Field, your position on Israel is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. You say that Israelis kicking Palestinians out of their home is okay because there are other places for them to go.."

Huh?

For all the people asking me if I have ever been to Israel. How many of you have ever been to Syria? or Lebanon? or Saudi Arabia? or Gabon? or...you get the picture. That is a silly question. I have never been to Green Bay, Wisconsin but I know that the Packers play there. So what?

Anon 4:19 pm, please provide links so that we can check your source.

"FN's loyalty oath to Israel is nit a newsflash in the Black middle class nor with Black immigrants from the islands...Jewish tourism has been very critical of those nation in the islands..."

I don't remember ever seeing an Israeli tourist in the Islands. Please tell me Trasher, what Island are you referring to? The irony is that I have seen many German tourist in the Islands, but no Israelis. So again....

"Field I just really noticed your opening statement. So let me say that I too am a defender of the Jewish people, but it is not the same as defending the actions of Israel."

I think you are ther first one who did. Wow,comments from someone who actually reads my posts. Thanks mel.

no_slappz said...

mellaneous,

If you support the Palestinians, you support a group of people who are defined by their religion as well as their political leadership.

The leaders of the Gaza Strip base their leadership on Destroying Israel and Driving all Jews from the Middle East.

If you support Palestinians, you support the Hamas goal of driving all Jews from the middle east.

That goal is the reason Hamas exists.

Of course, given your goofy approach, if David Duke were a despot leading the US and he wanted to drive all blacks out of the US and back to Africa, you would support him and his administration because you would agree with his claim that blacks had no legitimate claim on life in this country.

Anonymous said...

Seeing how AB and UTS have been silent about Israel's Nazi tactics, they obviously favor putting Field's support for Israel's murderous actions above the lives of innocent Palestinians. Shame!!

Anonymous said...

CF, "Negroes functioning as STREET PIRATES treat Black people who have the misfortune of being around them like shit.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

Is the treatment by the Jew SUPERIOR or something?"

The treatment by Israel is far worse than Street Pirates because they are looking money and not looking to wipe out their own race. The Jews are looking to wipe out the Blacks, including your black ass.

CF, that Atlanta sun has had a big effect on your mind. Stay out of the sun.

Anonymous said...

Now that the facts are in, it will be interesting to see what Field has to say. Will he admit his mistake? Will he criticize Israel's wrongs?

Or will he continue to remain silent in support of another axis of evil?

I am taking bets.

Anonymous said...

Frank "I Heart Israel" Drackman:

Jews did pretty well for centuries under Sharia Law. They will do well again.

no_slappz said...

cocoa goddess,

The fact that you think Bahrain, a muslim monarchy, with a population that is over 80% muslim, is secular says a lot about how little you know.

The legal system is based on sharia law.

Moreover, the population is less than 750,000, which means the country amounts to population rounding error with respect to the muslims world.

Furthermore, the economy of Bahrain is based on oil & gas and muslim banking. Running the oil business requires the efforts of the non-muslim westerners. Muslims cannot handle this business without a lot of help.

Black scientists and engineers? Name one. Okay, Booker T Washington. Name one living black scientist.

The banking business is nothing but a mask for muslim incompetence. Their financial practices do nothing but lose money.

Do you know what ARAMCO stands for?

Anonymous said...

Israel/Palestine problems are not religious. It is a stronger, richer, crueler European taking over from weaker, poorer, gentler N.African/Asian. Better people than Jews have attempted this (French, Brits, Spaniards, Dutch, Belgians, Portugese, Italians) have done the same in the last 300 years and have been kicked out. The European Jews will leave soon too leaving Arab and other made up Jews behind (cuz America aint gonna take them).

Anonymous said...

no_slappz

You are a piece of work. There are many black scientists working away in several universitites. I personally know some of them. Propagating and propagandising Jewish achievement is a full time job of Jew controlled media and Jews in general, right down to the granting of the Nobel prizes. Don't get carried away with this though. Remember that white European's work on a 70 year cycle - they break into psychosis and murder Jews like crazy. 70 years since WW2 are almost up, the economy is tanking - and guess who is gonna pay.

M. Rigmaiden said...

Maria, liberals pride themselves on rooting for social justice. This is a pillar of liberal ideology. It always bothers me when I see avowed liberals support this nasty regime just because it's Israel. My Father in law is like that and always mentions the Holocaust; that since something bad happened to Jews a while ago, we ought to reduce our levels of criticism of anything Israel does. This is cognitive disconnect of the worst order because Jew does not equal Israeli and vise versa. But for some reason people think your an antiSemite if you dare say anything about the governance of Israel.

As to the anonymous commenter above, its obvious that people treat each other badly regardless of their racial background. However my comment above pointed out that there is a serious issue with racism in Israel that needs to be examined in addition to its other blatant human rights abuses.

As to what conservatives say about Israel...well many of them are Zionists just because. There is no rationale behind their position either.

Anonymous said...

"Anon 4:19 pm, please provide links so that we can check your source."

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/05/31/at-least-15-peace-activists-massacred-as-israel-attacks-unarmed/
These were some of the passengers on the Flotilla. So tell me Field were all these people part of a conspiracy to confiscate weapons into the Gaza strip?


"The largest flotilla launched to challenge the Gaza blockade also carried the most passengers, well over 600 people, believed to include 27 from the UK. Internationally renowned names were on board, among them activists, authors, film-makers, politicians and journalists from Europe, the Middle East, the US and Canada.

Among the most famous is Henning Mankell, author of the best-selling Wallander series of crime novels. Mankell had been scheduled to speak to the Hay festival on Saturday night by live link from the boat, but the connection failed.

One of the best-known international activists is Huwaida Arraf, born in the US to an Israeli Arab father and Palestinian mother, co- founder in 2001 of the International Solidarity Movement, which campaigns against Israel's actions in the West Bank and Gaza. He was on the Challenger.

Also on board was the Nobel peace laureate Mairead Corrigan-Maguire, co-founder of Northern Ireland's Peace People and a veteran of the Gaza flotillas, who was briefly jailed last year when Israel intercepted and towed a flotilla."

Anonymous said...

For all the people asking me if I have ever been to Israel. How many of you have ever been to Syria? or Lebanon? or Saudi Arabia? or Gabon? or...you get the picture. That is a silly question. I have never been to Green Bay, Wisconsin but I know that the Packers play there. So what?

..................................
The more you write the dumber you sound .

Get back in da house masta need you to rub his feet

Anonymous said...

I meant to write smuggle weapons

field negro said...

"The more you write the dumber you sound .

Get back in da house masta need you to rub his feet"

If you can actually hear the "sound" of my writing,that "masta" you are so preoccupied with might need you as well.

BTW, Here is hoping you get over that foot fetish. ;) And why does "masta" have to be a he?

M. Rigmaiden, I am curious; do you think that there is racism in Arab countries, European countries, and right here in A-merry-ca?

Mack Lyons said...

"Muslim nations are devoid of creativity and innovation. Muslims invent nothing, they manufacture almost nothing and they have added nothing to the intellectual advancement of the world for more than a 1,000 years. Their record is almost as bad as it gets."

See Slappy, you can replace the word "Muslim" with "African" in your quote and suddenly, your argument becomes even less entertaining. Come to think of it, no Black person worth his or her salt would waste their time pounding out an anti-Muslim rant, as there's some degree of respect for Muslims within the Black community. Which leads me to believe that your ethnic background may be a bit more pink than you let on.

Your other comments confirm it. To wit:
"Africa is a mess. It has always been a mess, but Africans are only beginning to understand their own mess. As with the muslim countries, there are no industries in Africa. Why? Lots of reasons -- all the fault and the responsibility of Africans themselves.

Soon, Africans will all be muslims, which guarantees a form of failure that is far worse than anything seen in the last couple of hundred years."


That's just a sample. I shouldn't have to go into further detail.

By the way, you should cease waiting on that good nigger to shine your shoes. Those days are over and done. Go nurse your bigotry elsewhere.

M. Rigmaiden said...

There's racism everywhere. However if the country is founded by those who were victimized by prejudice like Israel, racism there is spiritually more egregious because past victims become perpetrators. But that isn't really the issue is it?

Bruno Leicht said...

No

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]
The treatment by Israel is far worse than Street Pirates because they are looking money and not looking to wipe out their own race. The Jews are looking to wipe out the Blacks, including your black ass.
[/quote]

Anon #125:

PLEASE!!!

When I go out hanging with my friends, my Keltech 32 cal under my car seat IT AIN'T "Orthodox Jews" that I am lookout out for per their high rate of car jacking in the metro area.

The Street Pirate has a far, far, far greater "Negro Murder Rate" than does the Jew according to the stats from 2009, the year of our Lord Obama.

[quote]
CF, that Atlanta sun has had a big effect on your mind. Stay out of the sun.
[/quote]

No its actually because I don't smoke intoxicating organic matter as you do.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]See Slappy, you can replace the word "Muslim" with "African" in your quote and suddenly, your argument becomes even less entertaining[/quote]

Slapps - you force me to agree with Mack Is Lyning. (You know you must be screwing up).

It is true that various Muslim nations have a long history in innovation and mathematical/scientific advancement.

They created the foundations of Calculus using real world geometric proof instead of the more elaborate formulaic communication that the Europeans later added for the ease of communication.

Many of the elements of knowledge that we take for granted today came from these Muslim nations.

(Don't do that again Slapps. I now have to wash my hands after agreeing with Mack Is Lying)

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]It always bothers me when I see avowed liberals support this nasty regime just because it's Israel. [/quote]

MR:

I just finished watching "Democracy Now". Those "Jews" on that show have hit an orgasmic pitch!!!

They now have the raw goods on Israel.

Even as they showed a video of the Israeli commandos being beaten with sticks and one thrown overboard they were providing "color commentary", trying to convince us that we were NOT seeing what we were seeing.

All Jews DO NOT defend Israel.

IF I were a Jew, however, I would make measure of what the nations that surround Israel have in mind for "My People" and work to have Israel "Pull up" but STILL realize that there are forces that wish to "slit my throat" thus forcing me to remain fall short of calling for the full regulation of Israel and the associated punitive damage.

Hell - Even Black liberals in the USA can't bring themselves to admit the murderous exploits of the Killer Street Pirates for want of avoidance of sounding JUST LIKE "WHITE RACISTS" who say "Lock Em All Up In Prison".

Surely you must see this?

field negro said...

"All Jews DO NOT defend Israel."

Damn it Destructive..., I am going to need exorcizing after these posts. I am agreeing with you way too much.

Anonymous said...

That should tell you something genius

Cocoa_Goddess said...

Slappy you are really reaching. What in the hell does a monarchy have to do with whether a country is secular or not? Come on you have to do better than that especially since I've been there. That was pathetic!


sec·u·lar
   /ˈsɛkyələr/ Show Spelled[sek-yuh-ler] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2.
not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.
3.
(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
4.
(of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular).
5.
occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the secular games of Rome.
6.
going on from age to age; continuing through long ages.


mon·ar·chy
   /ˈmɒnərki/ Show Spelled[mon-er-kee] Show IPA
–noun,plural-chies.
1.
a state or nation in which the supreme power is actually or nominally lodged in a monarch.Compare absolute monarchy, limited monarchy.
2.
supreme power or sovereignty held by a single person.

England is a monarchy you dolt and it is hardly a THEOCRACY.

The banking business is nothing but a mask for muslim incompetence. Their financial practices do nothing but lose money.
MORE STUPID CONJECTURE THAT HARDLY PROVES YOUR FALSE PREMISE! What the hell does that have to do with secularism or a monarchy? My God, your debating skills are terrible.

Black scientists and engineers? Name one. Okay, Booker T Washington. Name one living black scientist.

Here's a list of African-American scientists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_inventors_and_scientists

Also, my dad is an Electrical Engineer who managed the radar sites at Ellington and Hobby.
Damn, were you home schooled?

Do you know what ARAMCO stands for?

Are you fucking kidding? You think someone who worked for a company their senior year in college and two years after they graduated wouldn't know what the name of their company stands for? Gee, I wonder why I kept seeing all of those Saudi princes visiting the company. Oh, that guy on the 10th floor, he was a Saudi prince, too. I wonder why. Your damn racism is clogging your brain. It's so bad that you actually have Mack Lyons and CF agreeing. Maybe you can use your Pee Wee Herman voice and say, "I meant to do that."

Zing said...

CF See 'F' said...."YOU molested my point, arguing that we should be quiet about how others treat us UNTIL we treat ourselves properly. Where did you get this notion from?"

Don't you remember?! We got it from you.

Anonymous said...

Mack Lyons, "See Slappy, you can replace the word "Muslim" with "African" in your quote and suddenly, your argument becomes even less entertaining. Come to think of it, no Black person worth his or her salt would waste their time pounding out an anti-Muslim rant, as there's some degree of respect for Muslims within the Black community. Which leads me to believe that your ethnic background may be a bit more pink than you let on."

A very insightful comment. I have known who Slappy is for a long time. He is Republican and very white-so White ghosts wear sunglasses to look at him. The man is an authentic hater of POCs-a true Stormfronter with two years of community college.

Anonymous said...

"Damn it Destructive..., I am going to need exorcizing after these posts. I am agreeing with you way too much."

Yeah, I know you desperately need CF to back up your love for Israel. But, as you have said time after time, CF always goes against his people in order to love and support Whites.

Yep. You and CF think EXACTLY alike.

Anon#125(my permanent name, courtesy of CF)-it has a nice ring to it, don't you think? Thanks CF.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

Anon 1:17 -

A very insightful comment. I have known who Slappy is for a long time. He is Republican and very white-so White ghosts wear sunglasses to look at him. The man is an authentic hater of POCs-a true Stormfronter with two years of community college.

So THAT explains it. Thanks.

M. Rigmaiden said...

CF you're making up talking points just to see your own text. I never said that all Jews support Israel, in fact I said the exact opposite to that above. Jews are complex people with various ideologies just like other human beings. I met a Socialist lady a few years back who was a Holocaust survivor AND anti Zionist precisely because of all the harm that the Israeli government has inflicted on the Palestinians.

The Zionist situation is likely one that will always be contentious.

maria said...

RM said:
It always bothers me when I see avowed liberals support this nasty regime just because it's Israel. My Father in law is like that and always mentions the Holocaust; that since something bad happened to Jews a while ago, we ought to reduce our levels of criticism of anything Israel does. This is cognitive disconnect of the worst order because Jew does not equal Israeli and vise versa. But for some reason people think your an antiSemite if you dare say anything about the governance of Israel."

but you didn't dispute my point: conservatives and republicans equally support israel.

no_slappz said...

constructive feedback,

You've been partially taken in by the muslim nonsense.

Many of those advances you believe are the product of muslim science -- way back, maybe 500 years ago -- were, in fact, advances made by Jews who were living in territories conquered by muslims who took credit for the work.

In any case, as with many intellectual advances, leading thinkers in each field are simultaneously at work on the same problems.

As history shows, the last time muslims were at work on any intellectual advances was 500 years ago.

But frankly, their last notable contribution was the concept of ZERO, which emerged 1,000 years ago.

They did, however, spread knowledge. One benefit of forcing conquered citizens to learn Arabic was to make much more knowledge far more available.

But, as innovators, the best they can do today is to fiddle with suicide belts.

no_slappz said...

cocoa goddess, you wrote:

England is a monarchy you dolt and it is hardly a THEOCRACY.

Your comment says it all. Your ignorance is industrial-strength.

Since you think England is a monarchy, it is obvious you are incapable of understanding anything about the political and power structure of muslim countries.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

No Slappz - Read a fucking book. Both England and Bahrain are CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHIES with Prime Ministers as the true head of the government. What's obvious to me is that you have to the most ignorant person I've ever encountered. Maybe you should travel more instead of being an ignorant xenophobe.

//www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107313.html
Bahrain.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

Here's another link you profound imbecile:
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/constitutional-monarchies.shtml

Oh look, they list the UK AND Bahrain. Go figure.

M. Rigmaiden said...

No Maria, I wasn't trying to debate your point that libs and cons support Israel. More or less I was saying that libs are more hypocritical in this matter simply because of the disconnect. The cons never promise to care about human rights abuses which is why I didn't mention them;)

no_slappz said...

cocoa goddess,

My question to you about ARAMCO was aimed at the point of who owns the assets and who performs the work? The name answers the question.

As in everything, muslims are incompetent. Thus, they have to hire people they hate to perform all the work they are unable to handle, which is pretty much everything.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

England? Sure. The Queen is the real power. And those Princes, yeah, always off with the Royal Navy on madcap adventures.

Yeah, thanks for ignoring what I wrote earlier about both places being CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHS with Prime Ministers as head of state.


Anyway, the amusing part is how you show no signs of embarrassment over how little you know about terms you throw around. Constitutional monarchy. You really believe the Royal Family does more than entertain the Brits and the world with foolish antics.



Where in the hell did I ever write that? It really helps to ignore what people write in a debate when they make you look like an idiot. Then throwing up strawmen just makes you look even more incompetent. The only way you can win a debate it seems, is if you throw up a strawman and attack it yourself. Attacking a phony premise that you created yourself (a strawman) is a sorry way to debate. Everyone knows that the monarch in a constitutional monarch is just a figure head.

Your entire first reply reflects how terribly you debate. You Slappy don't know much. What you do know you over inflate and what you don't know you try to bullshit your way through because you don't think people will call you on your ignorance. Too bad that little tactic won't work on me. Nice try jackass.

The fact that you think you know more about Bahrain and Aramco than someone who actually has experience being at both places shows that not only are you ignorant, you are narrow-minded and arrogant to boot. This is a sad combination of traits because a narrow mind doesn't allow for much learning and an over-inflated ego gets busted like a balloon.

Cocoa_Goddess said...

Slappy, after reading your comment it dawned on me that YOU don't know the meaning of constitutional monarchy versus absolute monarchy. Here, let me help you out:

Cultural Dictionary

constitutional monarchy definition

A form of national government in which the power of the monarch (the king or queen) is restrained by a parliament, by law, or by custom. Several nations, especially in modern times, have passed from absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy, including Belgium, Britain, Denmark, The Netherlands, Norway, Spain, and Sweden.

no_slappz said...

cocoa-goddess,

The British Parliament has limited the monarchy to riding in ceremonial carriages and presiding over some national events.

In fact, that's how it is in all the constitutional monarchies you cited. The Royals chief purpose is to amuse everyone else.

How much driving did you do in Bahrain?

Did you bring a Bible to Bahrain? Did you read it to any muslim females and ask them if they wanted to convert to Christianity?

Meanwhile, maybe you don't know the assets of Aramco were once the property of others outside of Saudi Arabia. Do you know about the nationalization -- the seizing -- of western oil facilities by Saudi Arabia?

They love the money, but when it comes to running the oil business, they are totally inept.

Anyway, inasmuch as you were there only a short time, it's obvious you hated the place. Totally understandable.

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