There has been so much anger and animosity around here lately that I thought I would post a positive news story for once. And even though my man racism isn't taking time off from harassing me, (h/t Race Traitoress)I figured I would let him play by himself, tonight.
Yep, tonight it's all about the positive from the field; I come to praise A-merry-ca, not put her down.
So anyway, today is Sunday, and it's the day many A-merry-cans choose to go into their various places of worship. Unfortunately, Sunday morning, as Dr. King so famously said, can often be a very segregated time here in A-merry-ca. When it comes to our religion we kind of like it like our sex: we only do it with people we are comfortable with.
But here in Philadelphia a wonderful thing happened today. Two congregations that used to be one but split because of racism 200 years ago, worshiped together in a spirit of unity. From all accounts, (and I know someone who was there) it was a beautiful thing. Black and white folks acknowledging mistakes of the past and vowing to form a bond of Christian brotherhood which is both deep and meaningful.
Credit should go to the two leaders [Rev. Mark Kelly-Tyler & Rev. Alfred Day] of the respective congregations for doing what is right. It's one thing to talk like a Christian but it's quite another to act like one.
I was thinking; wouldn't it be nice if churches kind of did this on a national scale and had this type of interaction all over the country? Kind of like "wife swap" but with church congregations. I think that would work. I don't know about the rest of you, but the church denomination I grew up in always had a black church and a white church; a black conference overseeing things and a white one.
My daddy was a big shot in the church and I remember that it was always something that embarrassed him. I think it's why he chose to work with the church in the islands and not to leave Jamaica. He couldn't stand the idea of being a part of a segregated church family from top to bottom.
"For the congregants at Mother Bethel, “this is really a first step in what we hope will be some ongoing dialogue and continuing fellowship together,”... Showing how to heal two congregations that had been torn apart so violently, he added, “can say something about how we handle this kind of division in today’s world.”
Amen Reverend! And it will insure that we keep certain other Reverends out of the spotlight as well.
55 comments:
Desegregated music events could accomplish the same thing, or more in my opinion. Here in SC, everything outside of schools/colleges and workplaces are segregated. We've even begun to have segregated proms again, and the segregated country clubs NEVER went away. However, the college campuses here are very good at getting reggae artists to perform with "white blues" singers. You wouldn't believe the temporary unity you experience at these events; I went to PLENTY of them during my college rampages.
It is the little steps like this that can lead us down the road to transfomation and healing..... Nice.
Never heard this particular saying before @ When it comes to our religion we kind of like it like our sex: we only do it with people we are comfortable with. ...Yet, in full agreement.
That's a wonderful thing to know how far we've come in terms of racism. By no means are we there yet. But who know, who knows what Tomorrow brings. As long as Today speaks of promise.
Enjoyed and have missed the informative reads these past 11 1/2 months.
Off-topic
Looks like Steve Phillips has been fired by ESPN.So y'all need to put that race card back in the deck.
Maybe the NAACP can have a funeral and lay the race card to rest.
Back on topic---
That was beautiful field.I knew under that cold blackness lay a warm heart.Don't post like this make you fell better? Makes you want to stop all that insulting and name calling?
You always kill with the House Negro of The Day - too funny @ Jermaine Jackson. Everytime I see Jermaine I think about Chris Rock's hilarious joke.
It's about time worshipers got a clue and realized that there'
s no need to divide by race. These people have so much more in common than such a little (nonsensical) thing to divide them.
Now if we could get them to respect the rights of everybody else, those who live differently, then that would be great.
Maybe that will come some day, but I'm at least happy that that some people have joined together in spite of race. More power to them.
Field, "It's one thing to talk like a Christian but it's quite another to act like one."
Amen...Hope so-called Christians on this blog and around the country will be inspired by this story. May they strive to follow the teachings of Christ and try to be a little kinder to each other.
Wow, field--my first reaction was surprise that this was a current story. For a minute I thought you were paying respect to something that happened long ago and perhaps they were celebrating an anniversary or something. When am I going to stop being surprised?
And regarding your observation:
When it comes to our religion we kind of like it like our sex: we only do it with people we are comfortable with. . .
um. . .yeah. Lolz.
You gonna give props to these young people at Washington U in St Louis?
http://www.studlife.com/news/2009/10/19/students-protest-race-discrimination-at-bar-in-chicago-during-senior-class-trip/
Oh, and btw, that Leibowitz photo of the Obamas is indeed lovely, but I love all the candid photos of Malia with her hair unstraightened. That's a beautiful image for our First Daughter.
Field,
Think I have mentioned before that I grew up in the same denomination as you--right near the world headquarters. My dad worked over thrity years in service at the headquarters, working his way up from graveyard shift security officer to having the second largest budget there. But he had to deal with your man racism.
I was part of a similar union of churches over ten years ago. Our tiny black church was bursting at the seams. Fire department could have shut us down for parking code violations every week. We needed a new place. A white church was "dying on the vine". We explored renting from them to worship with an early service. They approached us about merging and not just renting. Our pastor became the senior pastor, and the service was a traditional black service. It was something that had never occurred before. It made the front page, above the fold of the local section of the Orange County Register, no less. The church has had some issues, but continues to exist as a truly blended congregation.
The man racism continues big time in the one place he should be banned. But stories like this Philadelphia Story suggest hope. It won't be publicized since it takes away platforms from both sides. I might hold my breath as the "baby steps" continue, but will keep traveling with my oxygen mask.
"Chester Lovelle Talton (born September 22, 1941) is the Bishop Suffragan of the Diocese of Los Angeles in the The Episcopal Church." He is the Bishop for our local church and "He is African American, and one of 37 black bishops who have been consecrated by the Episcopal Church." from Wikipedia
It is not so much that the local church is segregated as that the whole town is very "creamy."
The Episcopal church is having a schism over gay and women's rights with the conservative church's not supporting the idea women bishops and gay ministers. Apparently the churchs in Africa are very conservative on these issues.
It is not so much that the local church is segregated as that the whole town is very "creamy."
"It is not so much that the local church is segregated as that the whole town is very "creamy.""
Well, it ain't creamy in Oakland and don't expect Christians to come together in Oakland. They don't have Christians loving Christians in Oakland.
Heck, they got grannys kicking in the teeth of whites for just spitting. Love thy neighbor means to beat thy neighbor in Oakland.
Whatever happened to WCS?
Nice post Field but the reality is that the church incorporates the culture rather than opposing it as Jesus and the early church did. So with that come all the stereotypes and prejudices. Black folks have them too but more often they are born from their experiences with their white brethren or from their experiences with institutions that are inherently racist which too many of their white brethren and siters helped create.
I have worshipped in mixed congregations and enjoyed the intermingling. But Field its tough intermingling and befriending folks who too often support policies that are unjust or spell injustice for people of color. Its a strange thing and hard to explain but too often the evangelical folks want to come and worship with other folks but they don't change their way of looking at people of color.
From my perspective we can all worship together if we really see one another as equals and if we are all dedicated to the elimination of racism. Otherwise its just a feel good moment especially for white folks, but nothing changes in society.
I have been there done that its boring Field. This subject could fill a book. There is much more to worshipping together than just sitting next to one another in a pew. And I almost forgot when I would visit my best friend in a middle sized midwestern town at his wifes "white" church folks could not help staring or being obviously patronizing and I didn't know which was worse. I think some meant well but they just couldn't pull it off.
But when white folks have visited my nearly all black church nobody patronized them or stared at them. In every setting I have experienced they were accepted at face value.
Anyway Field and others there is a good reason Blacks and whites don't (really) worship together and its primarily because whites aren't ready. Here in Minneapolis and old friend pastors a mixed church but he doesn't dare raise the issue of eradicating racism and injustice. He skirts the perimeter of the issue and that church has not taken the lead in anything social justice oriented. My freind travels all over talking about it but his church ain't doing it.
liberation then peace
Let's not forget that it was not the black people in America who insisted on segregation, especially in the pews on Sunday. This is why we have AME and other denominations. The thought they were too good to worship with Christians who did not look like them. I guess at the end of the day, most people need to feel better than someone else in order to feel slightly better about themselves. Some things never change. Even though people segregate by choice in their personal life, the churches where I had the most spiritual growth and felt the most welcome were either churches that were multi-ethnic (such as your mega-churches...another topic) or BLACK majority congregations.
At the end of the day, I refuse to eat, drink, socialize or worship with people who don't consider me human or or "as good as them." Life's too short.
Race Traitoress, thanks for that link, and for sending me the link to that web site I posted about.
Oh yes Field Hang G, nothing like a little reggae to bring folks together. :)
Don, you never heard that saying because it's a fieldism.:)
"It's about time worshipers got a clue and realized that there'
s no need to divide by race. These people have so much more in common than such a little (nonsensical) thing to divide them.
Now if we could get them to respect the rights of everybody else, those who live differently, then that would be great."
Amen matw!
"That was beautiful field.I knew under that cold blackness lay a warm heart.Don't post like this make you fell better? Makes you want to stop all that insulting and name calling?"
Oh yes Obama mmmm...makes me just want to hold hands with you, close my eyes, and sing kumbaya....well, maybe not close my eyes. ;)
Doc L, if you grew up in Maryland we are definitely from the same denomination. And like you, I experienced the same vibe. We would go to the black churches on one side of town and they always had the worse buildings with lots of worshipers. The white churches, on the other hand, would be beautiful with hardly anyone in them. Even as a kid I noticed that crap.
I think it's a waste of my time at this point in my life to seek to worship with people of unlike minds.So I choose to worship with people who seek the same goals of spirituality.I don't need to be validated by the main stream church society to know that I'm blessed!
this is a beautiful story fn
thanks!
more religious integration would occur if racism did not rule all arenas, especially those dedicated exclusively to white supremacist religions/white gods/sins "washed white as snow" etc...
"Unfortunately, most of the major denominations still practice segregation in local churches, hospitals, schools, and other church institutions. It is appalling that the most segregated hour of Christian America is eleven o'clock on Sunday morning, the same hour when many are standing to sing: "In Christ There Is No East Nor West." ~Martin Luther King, Jr., Stride Toward Freedom: The Montgomery Story, 1958
i love god
god = universal colorless love
this is why i have no use for any religion or church
and i worship the same god that trees do...
peace
@field -- Great uplifting story.
As far as segregation goes, the colonial powers and later American elite spent centuries training blacks and poor to middle class whites to think they should be separate and have no common cause. The key to their survival as elites who have far more than what they've earned or deserve --the maintenance of their privilege-- is our separation from our brothers and sisters. Racism and segregation is not a natural fact of life but a very artificial teaching indoctrinated into folks at childhood for the purpose of keeping us from making common cause -- keeping us weak and powerless in the face of wealthier and more powerful interests. The moment Americans who inhabit the 90% of classes beneath the controlling elites is the moment we all start to win our freedom both socially and economically.
--j
BigMac
"I think it's a waste of my time at this point in my life to seek to worship with people of unlike minds.So I choose to worship with people who seek the same goals of spirituality."
So I assume you worship at the Church of Project 21.
The Right Reverend Jessie Lee Peterson at yo service.
Grinnin' and buckdancin'!
UTS,you ever notice I don't take anything you say worth a grain of salt.Who didn't hug you as a child,do you need a hug today my friend?Its going to be ok,now just breath slowly.
"you ever notice I don't take anything you say worth a grain of salt."
Then why did you respond Ruckus?
LMAO!!!!!!
Why kind of church do you worship in anyway?
Thought you needed a hug son!
i don't have much use for churches. but sometimes i'll go to a black church, just for fun. for the music, of course. some mornings i'm in the mood and i'll suffer the boredom of a sermon to hear some of the singing. i've been to enough white churches to know not to waste my time in them. those people know how to make anyone an atheist with music. last time i was in one where the white people sang some of their choices in 'holy' music, i wanted to die. it was painful.
If I want a hug I'll go search out a pair of 44DDs.
Thanks anyway!
Ok UTS whatever floats your boat,I think 44DD's will overload the average person's boat,don't you think? More then a mouth full is a waste for me!
rt:
i love malia too!
she is regal, poised, and often beautifully nappy...
as an natural hair lover who is locked for life and happy to be nappy, seeing her twists and braids is always wonderful...
obama's beautiful black family is the only thing i like about him...
Now the white and black christians can persecute all the evil gays, atheists, scientists, and evolutionists together! Woo hoo!
Yeah Field,
Growing up in MD/DC, I noticed it too. couldn't help it. sad thing is, ain't much changed. Well, at least some of the big white churches from my childhood have been taken over by us.
Generally speaking about your man Racism, I don't have a problem with "separate but equal". Problem is there is lots of separate, but no equal. Desegregation and not integration should have been the goal. That way, I can choose to go wherever I want, knowing all is the same. Banks, schools, etc. needless to say, we got a helluva ways to go.
"obama's beautiful black family is the only thing i like about him..."
yeah right!
ahh, had me almost missing Philly
almost
still enjoying my great escape to go there yet
UpTownSteve..... just ONCE I would love to read the thread of comments without your personal insults directed..... it lowers the discourse and, frankly, reduces the number of thoughtful people who used to post here, but I suspect have given up due to the baser personal insults that get thrown.... I often agree with the content when you are on topic, until you start with the personal insults. Please, stop it.
And once again Jody this ain't your goddamn blog so if you don't like what I have to say then skip over my posts.
us:
amen!!!
why do these blog police never stop????
did you notice that assnon actually pissed on what may be the ONLY positive thing i have had to say about obama herein?
further proof that the whiners and haters are always attacking the posters rather than the posts!!!
"But here in Philadelphia a wonderful thing happened today. Two congregations that used to be one but split because of racism 200 years ago, worshiped together in a spirit of unit"
Yes, it most have been an awesome moment and uplifting feeling to have been in that church. I would have teared with the moment.
(But gee, I can't help wonder, how many folks still came down with the bug that day though :)
I will side with you today AB because nothing irks me more than these self-appointed guardians of OTHER PEOPLE'S FRIGGIN BLOGS!!!!!
Now Ms. Jody has decided she doesn't like me and you and perfectly alright.
I won't lose any sleep.
But then she tries to accuse me of "lowering the discourse" and "scaring away thoughtful posters" when the moment I first got here you had drooling pendants like Constructive Feedback, Mr. R, West Coast Story and several others cluttering up the bandwidth.
Jody as long as I don't insult YOU don't worry about what I post.
'kay?
uptownsteve said...
But then she tries to accuse me of "lowering the discourse" and "scaring away thoughtful posters" when the moment I first got here you had drooling pendants like Constructive Feedback, Mr. R, West Coast Story and several others cluttering up the bandwidth.
Typical Liberal behavior.
Participating in the same behavior your complaining about.
us:
ditto!
i only side with the truth...always!
the truth is its own defense...
herein and everywhere!
as i do, the truth always proudly stands alone... irrespective of its tellers...
Obama mmmm mmmmm
"Maybe the NAACP can have a funeral and lay the race card to rest."
Einstein, the "race card" will be laid to rest when "racism" is dead.
And thanks to folks like you that won't be for a good while.
Not good to divide the "faithful" by race, but I'd rather have them divided in general, so as to limit the influence of any monolithic Christian "church."
OT fn:
seen this?
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/charges.mcclendon.murders.2.1270523.html
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1846652,mcclendons-funeral-charges-hammond-102609.article
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/10/garrard-mcclendon-cltv-milton-ruby-hammond-funeral.html
dear god:
please bless chicago etc...
Jody "UpTownSteve..... just ONCE I would love to read the thread of comments without your personal insults directed....."
Even though Field wrote a wonderful heartwarming post about Christians coming together, there will always be people like UTS who are committed to being mean-spirited, self-righteous and justified in degrading and insulting another human being. Some humans are like the Devil's Advocate...beyond redeemption.
"Rudeness is a weak person's way of trying to appear strong."
Dear Jody, do not bother to talk to a callous fool, and UTS is certainly a hardened fool.
Filled Negro:
The JESUS that I have faith in said:
[quote]Matthew 10:21-22 (New International Version)
21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
[/quote]
(And NO I am not a "bible thumper".)
So I must ask you - WHAT IF two churches that had been divided by the earthly distinction upon RACE now come together in the name of RACIAL HARMONY yet the key point that they have in common is that they both have diluted the CHRISTIAN WORD OF GOD and practice something that is a gross bastardization of such? They now practice something that is beyond what could be reasonably called "Christian Doctrine", all for the sake of UNITY and NOT STEPPING ON ANYONE'S TOES.
They have every sort of "sinner" showing up - with the knowledge that he will be welcomed with open arms, NEVER being "judged" as he is told about God's Commandments........EVERYONE has "bones in their closet" after all.
What good is it for them to have united across racial lines but have not united in line with the callings of that which they proclaim as their SAVIOR? Have they really achieved anything beyond temporary worldly appeasement?
Let Black or White in this same church try to push too hard with fundamentalist biblical believes rather than social edification THEN you will see a real split in the church.
(Has Granny witnessed to you about your soul and where you stand in the eyes of Jesus, Field-Negro?)
ab,
Thanks for the news from Chicago. It is tragic and scary. I swear, the South Side has become nothing but a war zone of hatred.
It is not God who needs to bless Chicago. It is Blacks who must bless and love each other.
CF "What good is it for them to have united across racial lines but have not united in line with the callings of that which they proclaim as their SAVIOR? Have they really achieved anything beyond temporary worldly appeasement?"
Why can't you just leave well-enough alone and let sleeping dogs lie?
Gee [un]constructive one, I think you are giving Christians a bad name. And I have no idea what you are talking about. As an agnostic, I can't relate to what you are saying. I just like to see people coming together and throwing aside their differences. Be it denominationl,racial,geographical, poli....well, not political, we are always going to have a problem with that one.:)
Yes AB, that is truly a sad story.
" But gee, I can't help wonder, how many folks still came down with the bug that day though :)"
Now now La~Incognita.
Indeed Field-Negro.
[quote]Gee [un]constructive one, I think you are giving Christians a bad name.[/quote]
How so?
What about my post is COUNTER to that which a "Christian" is asked to believe - by DEFINITION of his religious faith as a Christian?
As an agnostic - you might have to seek council from a "Christian" to find your answer.
[quote] And I have no idea what you are talking about. As an agnostic, I can't relate to what you are saying. I just like to see people coming together and throwing aside their differences.[/quote]
YOU JUST MADE MY POINT!!
A few years ago someone made an observation that a group of South Korean Buddists (I believe they were Buddists) visited Washington DC for a few weeks. They took up company with a Black Christian church and later performed a Gospel Concert where the BUDDISTS SANG CHRISTIAN SONGS.
Some third party Christian observer noted the irony. People were so happy that two people's from two different nations came together, spanning their RELIGIONS to sing songs praising "Jesus Christ"!!!.......a God that the Buddists don't believe in.
IF your goal is to have two or more people's come together in communion among people - this was achieved - despite the irony noted above.
IF, however, you have the audacity to believe that the CHRISTIAN GOD is the savior and all who enters heaven must believe in him and accept them as their PERSONAL SAVIOR - then this was a tremendous failure.
Believe me there are many churches in this nation that have watered down their message for the sake of being POPULAR among their congregants.
Ironically - you and others are the key people ATTACKING the sin and hypocrisy that streams out of certain churches as their members are seen doing all sorts of devilment from Monday to Saturday.
IF these same churches were to adopt a more FUNDAMENTALIST disposition, seeking to enforce a more "upstanding and respectful" result from their flock - you would be the main one attacking this move as well.
Great post, field. I am loving the positivity.
John Crow
"IF these same churches were to adopt a more FUNDAMENTALIST disposition, seeking to enforce a more "upstanding and respectful" result from their flock - you would be the main one attacking this move as well."
Yes, with that we agree.
And just what the heck does "upstanding and respectful" mean? Methinks your brand of Christianity is a little bit exclusive. But maybe that's how you and the god you worship want it.
Field,
thanks so much for reporting about these churches.
[quote]And just what the heck does "upstanding and respectful" mean? Methinks your brand of Christianity is a little bit exclusive. But maybe that's how you and the god you worship want it.[/quote]
Filled Negro:
I realize that YOUR goal is to keep THE OTHER GUY (the alternative thought to yours) ON TRIAL.
I am going to flip the script and put YOU ON TRIAL and all that YOU BELIEVE. This will prove to be insightful.
In your drive in the name of non-exclusivity and openness you stroke yourself for not being 'judgmental'.....accepting all as they are. You can point to the large population sitting in the pews of the "Filled Negro Church Of God". You point to the happy songs that they are singing. The old ladies who are passed out on the floor after having "Gotten the Spirit". The collection plate that is full of money. Indeed you APPEAR to be prosperous.
This is the case - as long as no one does a deep probe of the full effects of your "church".
You see what YOU CALL "non-judgmentalism" should also be noted for its inability to achieve DIRECTED OUTCOMES on the backs of the very people who will CONSUME THE BENEFIT from the synergy that such order will deliver to them. Instead of individual fingers - they become a fist per their concentration.
You look at the length of your SOUP LINE and look to your God for praise that you are so charitable.
MY God makes note that in that line are EQUAL HUMAN BEINGS who YOU never noted to them about their full capabilities. Just as the nature preserve at any park has abundant signage which says "Do Not Feed The Wild Birds As You Will Disrupt Their Natural Foraging Habits"........YOU in your thoughts that you have perverted as COMPASSION have created a CONSUMER CLASS who looks to you for their daily nourishment.
In truth your SUCCESS should be measured in how FEW PEOPLE now have to show up in your soup line each day because they are no longer DEPENDENT upon what you are doling out. This, however, is an anathema to your agenda.
CENTRAL POWER not STRENGTH AT THE PERIPHERY.
UNITY WHERE FEW QUESTIONS ARE ASKED OF YOUR LEADERSHIP not the creation of COMPETENT PEOPLE, who upon noting the shortfalls in what you have promised if they supported your way and thus MANAGING YOU so that better outcomes can be had (see SouthWest Philly).
Thus it comes as no surprise, Filled Negro that YOU would look at the unified church in which the Blacks and Whites sit in the same pews as evidence of UNITY yet YOU, who are an agnostic, NEVER ASKED ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE WORSHIPING. "What thoughts are being reinforced as they sit togehter?"
WHITES AND BLACKS have been sitting together at HIP HOP CONCERTS and SPORTING EVENTS for decades. What is so special about sitting in the same pews?
ANSWER: The element of SPECIALTY is housed in that which YOU don't even believe in.
Filled Negro -are you surprised that in the face of all of the problems amongst the people that you PURPORT to be working in support of that more than 85% of your posts are focused upon a conservative force that has DEPARTED FROM THEIR MIDST?
Though they live under the concentrated protection of the bill of goods that YOU SOLD THEM....you spend the bulk of your time focused upon the vacated force.
It is clear to me why you and so many other propagandists that take up the "AfroSpear" flag are forced to fight against their enemies - even when they have departed. I am just wondering if YOU KNOW?
In the face of having a favorable Orthodoxy......the CHURCH THAT YOU HAVE BUILT UP - if you will - in POWER over your people.......Why aren't you preaching YOUR OWN GOSPEL of the Good News that this has rendered upon them?
Instead you must throw out CHUM to the masses so that they will be duly distracted in the fight AGAINST those they hate rather than NOTATING THE HOLLOW AND EMPTY SHELL that your "Religious Dogma" Known as POLITICS represents in their lives.
THE PROOF IS IRREFUTABLE.
Was going to be negative and wonder if the reasons the churches are merging is financial, i.e., membership losses in the White church.
But, I'll be positive and say that since God doesn't see color, I'm not sure why we do in the context of Christianity.
There won't be a Black heaven or a White heaven.
who's the most immature person here? steve or alicia? Are they really the same person using different names?
I'd been looking for an intelligent black blog to participate in, but this one seems to be very childish.
Oh yes, let me guess: steve and his fellows will call me names for criticizing their childishness.
assnon:
i call you childless
for not being adult enough to show your name and face
and for being a whiny hypocrite
us and i are posting just as you are
except more honestly and bravely
and
sans the blog policing
"There won't be a Black heaven or a White heaven."
You are mistaken. "As above, so below." There are Blacks and Whites in heaven as they are on earth. The idea that heaven will be without regard to color is fantasy. Whatever the condition here on earth is, so will it be after death.
Nothing changes just because you have died on earth. I am sure most Americans know that.
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