Some of you Negroes in A-merry-ca sure "make me wanna holla". Take, for instance, my man Skippy Gates. Wasn't it just a few months ago that we all saw this Negro being hauled off in handcuffs and crying racism? Fortunately for him he was buds with the most powerful man in A-merry-ca, which led to beer on the White House lawn and not a rap sheet.
Now this Negro is telling folks in the majority population that slavery wasn't really their fault because, well, dem black folks did it to themselves.
"For centuries, Europeans in Africa kept close to their military and trading posts on the coast. Exploration of the interior, home to the bulk of Africans sold into bondage at the height of the slave trade, came only during the colonial conquests, which is why Henry Morton Stanley’s pursuit of Dr. David Livingstone in 1871 made for such compelling press: he was going where no (white) man had gone before.
How did slaves make it to these coastal forts? The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred."
Of course, Skippy Gates, like all the other apologist for slavery before him, misses the point. We all know that tribes in Africa were at war and sold other Africans to European slave traders. They were also in the business of slavery. But here is the thing. If we are going to buy into A-merry-can exceptionalism and hold up our founding fathers and those who helped to make A-merry-ca what she is as the standard-bearers of virtue, we are going to have to hold them to a higher standard. Isn't A-merry-ca supposed to be different? Didn't-white- folks come to this country to escape the type of ignorance and persecution that was taking place in Europe? So why excuse slavery -regardless of who was taking part in the slave trade?
" Our new understanding of the scope of African involvement in the slave trade is not historical guesswork. Thanks to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, directed by the historian David Eltis of Emory University, we now know the ports from which more than 450,000 of our African ancestors were shipped out to what is now the United States (the database has records of 12.5 million people shipped to all parts of the New World from 1514 to 1866). About 16 percent of United States slaves came from eastern Nigeria, while 24 percent came from the Congo and Angola."
And what exactly is Skippy's point? That some Africans were bad so that as a race they all deserved to be enslaved and treated like chattel in the New World?
The problem with Skippy Gates and other Negroes like him is that they want so much to be relevant here in A-merry-ca. I guess he misses the shine he was getting during his beer summits with his O ness so he had to come up with this specious thesis to grab some headlines. There is nothing new here. Every first grader in A-merry-ca who studied history knows that Africans were involved with the slave trade, but Skippy felt a need to remind us to make his point.
And what I found particularly repulsive was his use of the reparations straw- man in his diatribe.
"THANKS to an unlikely confluence of history and genetics — the fact that he is African-American and president — Barack Obama has a unique opportunity to reshape the debate over one of the most contentious issues of America’s racial legacy: reparations, the idea that the descendants of American slaves should receive compensation for their ancestors’ unpaid labor and bondage. "
Ahh, excuse me. What debate over reparations? Sorry Skippy, I am not sure what circles you run in, but I don't hear black folks asking for reparations here in A-merry-ca. That is, quite frankly, bullshit. It's just something that certain folks like to throw out there for red meat for others who think like they do. You know why those blacks don't work? They think A-merry-ca owes them reparations. You know why they all support Obama? They think he is going to give them something in the form of reparations. And so it goes. A-merry-ca, let me be very clear: You don't have to give me shit. Just don't f&*k with me while I am on my way to getting mine.
Skippy, you should be ashamed of yourself for taking the time to pen that load of crap. And the next time the po po drags your dumb ass off in cuffs I hope they will have a legitimate reason to bring you in. Maybe spending some time in a jail cell will give you time to rethink your position on slavery. Hey, then you can pretend that your jail cell is the bottom of a slave ship, and that the police officer who booked you was black.
205 comments:
1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»This narrative by FN is why I have landed here and anchored my vessel..FN you are clearly the #1 Black site on the internet when it comes to commentary..Right Here..Right Now ..I send everyone in my tribe here
I tried to get into TNC but that fool likes being HNIC and white folks affirmation.
DV is a rambling tired theme of eccentric Black nationalism
The other Black sites are drive by window dressing.
Gates is a classic happy negro like Obama from his white wife to his OJ plea to be a nigger after the po po busted his chops..Truth is Black folks like him are going to always populated the marketplace for a number of reasons both Black and white...
Yet Gates's value is that he mirrors the mindset of Obama never really a Black man but close enough..
Those motherfuckers oughta sparked a motherfucking fattie at that goddamn beer summit.
ditto fn!!!
this is why i hate him
he is so academically astute yet still a classic uncle tom who degrades web dubois always....shame!!!
see more:
http://webspace.webring.com/people/rm/monicasass/gates.htm
Great post, beyond foul situation!!!
Birds of a feather flock together. So we can assume that this position on reparations, which I believe the decendants of slaves are entitled to in the form of freee education beyond high school, is shared in the White House, leat we forget that he is NOT a decendant of slaves.
Du Bois was full of shit with his elitest talented tenth nonsense..I find him a shallow thinker and not on my top ten list of greats of course he will do in a pinch
I have no idea of what Dr. Gates was trying to convey, and need to hear or read it in it's full context. Yes, historically, the slave trade in Africa probably would not have been so wide-spread if not for the participation of some African tribes giving their prisoners from other tribes to the Europeans for the slave trade, but I do not know how that relates to reparations in the United States. I would not negate the Europeans' role in the slave trade. Do I think reparations will ever be disperse, realistically the answer is no. You have to figure out what ancestors were slaves at the time. There were some ancestors in my family who were freed people, but the vast majority of my ancestors were slaves. The Freedom Bureau had a goal to establish land for the freeman, but that does not necessarily mean that they were going to give them the land for free. The Freedom Bureau managed to open schools for newly freed people where by 1870 21% of African-American population could read, but failed in its goal to establish land for the freedmen. There was a distribution of 850,000 acres of land, but President Johnson revoked the land and gave it to the confederate landowners. Then the bureau focused on employment, but that was a failure because while they encouraged the freedmen to work on plantations, but that become problematic when the freedmen became sharecroppers and tenant farmers.
I think we need to stop believing that the people within the Continent of Africa were collective, and that is not true. There were waring tribes and the losers ended up as slaves either with their conquerors or by Europeans. Slavery still exist in some African countries in the present day like Sudan.
My question is how do you practically implement reparations? How will it work? What would be the compensation structure? There may be 12.5 million African-Americans, but number comprises of people from the West Indies or African countries? I agree with the idea, but how does it get done?
Maybe he got paid for writing that article. While I didn't feel offended when I read it, I did wonder what points he was trying to make.
Thrasher:
The talented tenth was a good idea in theory, but that would mean that the individuals would put their goals aside for the good of the group. However, we are dealing with human nature and theory does not work because human beings have a difficult time working for the group goal than their individual goal. Trickle down economy is the same theory and human beings are not completely altruistic. We all have agendas, and I do not anyone who does not. You are not going to do anyone a favor unless it is convenient for you do it. You can call me cynical, but people for the most part are about their self-interest. I do not believe DuBois was shallow, in fact it is quite the opposite the problem was you cannot ask shallow people to do something that profound. Once people establish a certain status in the society, it is difficult for them to help others less fortunate then them.
On the other side of the spectrum, you had DuBois contemporary, Booker T. Washington who talked about pulling yourself up by the boot strap philosophy, but that does not entirely solve the problem either particularly with people who were in a situation through no fault of their own.
thrasher
web dubous did a 180% turn all the way into radical african voluntary exile before he died
do not abbreviate and slander him as skippy does
7/21/09
A RUDE AWAKENING FOR A RABID ELITIST
I have a dated love-hate relationship with the wisdom and works of Henry Louis “Skip” Gates Jr. As a scholar, I admire his supreme intellect. As an afrocentric rebel, his extreme eurocentrism repulses me.
I admire much of his academic work; even as I loathe most of his perpetually arrested bastardization of the entire political legacy of W. E. B. Dubois…So, please forgive me for channeling my inner "Ren and Stimpy" as I now sing:
HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!!!….
Racist police have given “Skip” a very belated hard lesson in cold racist reality during this mythically "post-racial" Obama era! Contrary to Obama Nazi rumors, racism is no relic in Amerikkka.
Skip has finally learned that nothing protects any black person from racism. Not safe tame eurocentric celebrity, nor Ivy League thrones, nor white spouses, nor home ownership in white enclaves, nor schizophrenic white neighbors…
See more on Skip’s painful lesson and why it is so profoundly necessary:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/massachusetts.harvard.professor.arrested/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/gates.htm
"AFRICAN AMERICAN LIVES (1 & 2)" ARE FLAWLESS!!!
Kudos to Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr.!!! Rarely have I had complimentary things to utter about this scholar who I, most often, find to be far too rabidly eurocentric and brazenly elitist to praise. But, as always, I unconditionally extend praise whenever it is due.
You must see these documentaries today! These are flawless, afrocentric, and classic films that celebrate the science of ancestry and the history of African lives in America. Gates traces the genealogical roots of an impressively diverse array of black celebrities, and shares sacred glimpses into the journeys of their ancestral souls from America to Africa.
As I watched, I learned a greater appreciation for the unique blessings of my afrocentric family. Typically, my family is a rainbow of hues and races. Yet, they never revered silences or delusions about our families’ African-American stories or African genes. The universal blood ties and histories that these videos celebrate have been an integral part of my afrocentric education and Pan-African nurturing since birth.
These same spiritual gifts are vicariously inherent in these videos. They should be required viewing by all students globally. All students need to know that all humans are Africans and that no human blood is pure. I have always longed to trace my precise African roots genetically. Now, that compulsion is even greater after viewing these films.
See more about "African American Lives (1 & 2)" at:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aalives/about.html
See more reality checks about racism in America here:
http://www.life.com/image/first/in-gallery/25151/life-goes-inside-todays-kkk
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/16/rachel-maddow-duels-with_n_237036.html
http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/kill-and-be-killed-police-murders-in-oakland/
You missed the point Field. He merely revealed that there never existed any kind of mythical African Nation. Why did Pan-African ideology go nowhere? Just look at Africa's past.The evil that men do was present in Africa too. Lastly, he pointed out the futility of the reparations argument.
"he is so academically astute yet still a classic uncle tom who degrades web dubois always....shame!!!"
Skippy proves that education does nothing for the "character" of a person. A scholar can remain highly dysfunctional fool, which no amount of higher institutional learning can change. That takes an inner moral compass and an inner awareness to follow the still small voice inside.
Most people don't hear that voice, let alone follow it. But it is a common problem for most humans, especially when it comes to approval seeking, money, status, fame, position and sex...However, the reputational consequences could turn out to be undesirable.
The Poster
'If we are going to buy into A-merry-can exceptionalism and hold up our founding fathers and those who helped to make A-merry-ca what she is as the standard-bearers of virtue, we are going to have to hold them to a higher standard. Isn't A-merry-ca supposed to be different? Didn't-white- folks come to this country to escape the type of ignorance and persecution that was taking place in Europe?"
Exactly.
And I am sick of hearing that excuse about Africans enslaving other Africans. White Europeans also enslaved each other, Asians, Indians you name it, they all enslaved each other from the beginning of time. So what? What's the fucking point?
It wasn't Africans, Asians, Indians etc that crossed their boundaries to enslave other people. History has proven It was, and has always been evil white maniacal Europeans, and their race needs to bear that burden forever!
Skippy can skip his ass to hell.
Kilo Ali lyrics
"Some uh y'all done lost y'all mind
and it made me cry,cry,cry."
"Hey, then you can pretend that your jail cell is the bottom of a slave ship, and that the police officer who booked you was black."
YOU-KNOCKED-IT-OUT-THE-FUCKIN-PARK!!
I read that article yesterday morning and I swear my weekend hasn't been right ever since.
I've had many a debate on the subject of slavery with white folks and this has been their ultimate rebuttal in defense:
"Well, Africans were the ones who captured the slaves... not us?
My guess is, Skippy's white side wrote that piece. You know he traced his genealogy and made it quite public that he's 99% Irish.
OK, so that was an exaggeration. He's about 1/5th Leprechaun.
But here "we" were rallying behind this man a year ago, only to be handed a "teachable moment".
Well said Field but perhaps its best to calm down before you bust a vein inside of that clean shaven, blogging head.
You can't blame "Skippy" for pretending to be naive about the Slave Trade.
After all he was indoctrinated by his "massa" Willie Lynch.
Let us pray.
Dear Mr. Field,
While I (mostly) agree with what you write in your posts, because they make people think, I must take exception to this particular essay.
I am not defending Henry Louis Gates, but I must say that I knew of the Africa-Black American link for as long as I have known about the facts of slavery---about 50 years. You see, I had educated BLACK parents who told me of this when I was just a wee lass---and then, because I am, and always have been, an avid reader, I further verified these facts for myself, at some point.
This is just history and fact. I don't think we should proceed to shoot the messenger, just because he (Dr. Gates) conveys facts that may have not been in the purview of common historical commentary. I don't necessarily buy into any musing that says Nubians in Africa owe us any reparations; after all, they are in pretty dire financial straits themselves. Perhaps they would be more financially solvent if they would GET RID OF some of those despotic, greedy dictators that prey on them. But---that is besides the point. They cannot pay reparations, even thought THEIR ANCESTORS FUCKED OVER OUR ANCESTORS. Fact.
Maybe if they would just STOP ACTING AS IF THEY ARE BETTER than Black Americans, that would suffice. I know that it would make ME feel better. I wouldn't have to gnash my teeth and get PISSED OFF at the negative comments they make about US, who, with OUR BLOOD, made it possible for them to immigrate to these United States and contribute---OUR BLOOD, the blood of BLACK Americans, who are ALL MIXED UP with Nubian, Native American, and European genes; BLACK AMERICANS, that I call Black because we ARE NOT African, even though some of us would like to believe we are. WE, the mixture, are the true Americans, and without our sacrifice and BLOOD, those immigrants would not have been able to come here and live a normal life.
So---in essence, and in closing, I am saying this: Dr. Gates is correct in saying that Black Nubians sold our ancestors into slavery, but I feel they were duped themselves, and have suffered, and ARE suffering, enough. Let their reparations to us be that they STOP acting like they are better, and acknowledge the debt that they owe to US if they are here in OUR COUNTRY (YES, this IS MY country) living lives better than they could in their motherland. This would satisfy me.
SueCitySue
Rippa:
"But here "we" were rallying behind this man a year ago, only to be handed a "teachable moment".
I co-sign with everything you said. BTW, the 1/5 Leprechaun was hilarious, I'm still laughing. Well, hopefully, he'll get locked out the house again.
Please sign a petition urging President Obama to nominate an African American woman to the Supreme Court. It's a shame that we have to resort to this, but that's life in the big city...
http://www.petition2congress.com/2/3146/view_all/
I'm not a big Skip Gates fan, primarily because of the self-importance of the Black intellectual class.
That being said, I don't think Gates is trying to absolve white people of slavery and its horrors. FN et al, take a deep breath.
I don't agree with Skip Gates, but I see where he's coming from. Gates' article asks the reader and the general public to consider the more complex history and its affects on our current reality. He's pointing out that political realities in Africa between 1400 - 1800 make the issue more complex than simply evil white people kidnapping our ancestors. If we ignore these facts and exclude them from our analysis of history and politics, we as Field Negroes become no more intellectually honest than the right wing crazies who pollute the Tea Party.
Black people and folks on the Left (labor, immigrant rights, feminists) can only move the world forward when we hold the truth in the highest regard. We can't move forward when we refuse to speak the truth, even the ugly and murky parts.
Gates' argument trivializes the culpability of Europeans in the Atlantic Slave Trade. He might as well said this exact quote:
"When Europeans arrived in sub-Saharan Africa, the inhabitants had no machinery and no written language. When the Europeans departed, most of them by 1960, they left behind power stations, telephones, telegraphs, railroads, mines, plantations, schools, a civil service, a police force and a treasury." - Pat Buchanan
@Granny: Good to see you. How have you been? Yeah, Gates needs to get locked out of his house again. This time around he needs a white cop to roll up on him and whip him into saying that his name is "Toby".
@Thrasher: I agree with you on this site being number one wholeheartedly. When my site grows up I want it to be just like this one. In the meantime, come check me out.
And another thing. I've always wondered if the Africans who took part in enslaving their enemy tribes to the Europeans truly understood why the white Europeans targeted Africa for slaves in the first place. I doubt they realized they were all targeted based on having "inferior" SKIN COLOR! I have always believed that If those Africans truly understood the magnitude of what is to be known about African Slavery and the generations of pain and suffering it caused for BLACK people, they may not have participated. Ignorance is truly bad for your health.
Furthermore. other non-white "minorities" need to shut up too, because ignorance wasn't reserved for Africans alone. Euros tried it with Asians as well, and they would have succeeded. But we all know why "little" Asians were spared, and Africans were chosen.
Rippa you need to stop, I have a weak bladder :)
If we are going to buy into A-merry-can exceptionalism and hold up our founding fathers and those who helped to make A-merry-ca what she is as the standard-bearers of virtue, we are going to have to hold them to a higher standard.
Oh, never mind. La♥audiobooks said it first and said it better. I cosign 100%.
Race Traitoress, I was quoting field. He said it, and I could never understood this hypocrisy, and especially from the "Christian" ones.
@ FN:
I checked my 'How You Can Be White While Your Skin is Yet Black' book and discovered that Gates,indeed,is now a white man...here's why according to the book:
1. He was on the Oprah show and he is now friends with Gail and Oprah.
2. When he got arrested he met with the President of the United Sates.
3. He then had a beer with same President of the United States...along with the police officer that aressted him.
4. They had the beers in the Rose Garden section of the White House outside the Oval Office (this is a whites only place...the only reason the President is able to go is by way of his white friends)
Therefore, according to the book, Gates is white by de facto...:)
And...
Congrats on your homies winning the relays...^5
Peace.
~agape2010~
Fuck all that. I still say that it all boils down to business. If there wouldn't have been a demand, then there wouldn't have been a supply. As far as American Exceptionalism, yeah this country is exceptional in the fact that no one calls it on it hypocritical bullshit. Also, the MoFo's that founded this country were motherfuckers that didn't want to follow the rules of their home country, so they were willing to take a risk of life and limb, while fucking another people out of their country and making them 4th class citizens in the mean time. I used to like Gates, but knowing that's how he rolls, I wish the Cambridge Police had Rodney Kinged his ass!
AbuAmirah
LA:
I think the reason is self-preservation. If they were slave traders coming and looking to enslave some people, and they are looking at your tribe, you have no problem giving up your the captured people from the waring tribe you conquered. Better them than you. There hasn't been a group of people that have been enslaved at one time or another in human history. The conquerors of one African tribe certainly enslaved the people they captured, so they really did not have problem handing them to someone else. Slavery is slavery, and I had one person who even told me that slavery in Africa was different than in the United States. Slavery is slavery, it means you enslaving another human being against their will. They have no freedom and cannot just leave whenever they wish because they are do the bidding of their master, and they usually died as a slave. Slavery is not a good thing period.
Here is the reality slavery was done for economic reasons. They wanted labor, but didn't want to pay anyone to do it. They tried to use Native Americans, but they escape and difficult to find them because they knew land and could hide, so indentured servants was another options. However, that did not work well either because if an indentured servant were lucky enough to live past the seven years for his freedom, they become competition as they would purchase land and become competition for the wealthier farmers. So, you get people from another land to become the labor force and getting them Africa is a good choice because they did not speak the language, them escaping from the plantation is not much of a problem because they did not know the land and easy to spot when recapturing them, and you can easily control them and do anything you want which include mistreatment of them.
@Rippa:
How you been, I missed you. I'm blessed and happy to see you again too.
Pat Buchanan is lie!
Civilization started in Africa. Trade and commerce and power brokerage unfolded at Timbuktu. The University of Sankore at Timbuktu was thriving. Ahmed Baba reigned over a university and wrote 47 books on different subjects, and that was during the 1500s. Timbuktu was the great intellectual nucleus of Songhai empire. People from North Africa and Europe came to converse with African historians and writers.
Africans past rulers extended kingdoms into empires, great armies that subdued nations, generals advanced techniques in the military science, scholars with wisdom and foresight.
In addition, Ghana was rich in gold and had a well-organized empire. Mali was another place in Africa that was wealthy in riches.
The slave trade ended all of that!
@ LA:
I'm going to take a stab at it...if the "founding fathers" "virute" was..."We hold these TRUTHS to be to be SELF EVIDENT, that ALL MEN are CREATED equal, they are ENDOWED with certin INALIENABLE RIGHTS, that AMONG these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS....(Thomas Jefferson)
Then...the standard that we have now in this society does not allow for much of what this coutry was "founded" on (prevailing thought)...not just for blacks (who were not considered human at that time)...but for a majority of people in this country.
IF..and that's a big IF...we are going to uphold this Declaration/Proclaimation of prevailing thought...we cannot continue to have this great divide of economic disparity between groups...or educational disparity...or city services disparity...or (fill in the blanks) disparity.
Why? ALL of the the words in that Declaration/Proclaimation that I highlighted are based on simple Christian values...not morals...values...
And as I stated to MR in the post below...if you cannot agree on the premise...you will not like the consequences...
This creed was written by a white man with a plethora of slaves, money, power, etc....Yet...this is the prevailing thought in this country now...(beacuse the Declaration/Proclaimation has not changed...only society has).
Therefore...the "virtue bearers" (whites in authority with power to make decisions) of this prevailing thought must... step up...or else lose the prevailing thought...write another Declaration/Proclaimation.
Does that make sense?
Peace and out. (will check tomorrow)
~agape2010~
Word verf: scandle (all I needed was the ous behond it...lol)
Europeans chose to makes blacks as permanent slaves because they were easily identifiable-skin color. Indentured servitude was not ideal because whites could run away and blend in with other whites, but blacks skin color prevented them from doing that.
@ SuecitySue:
I have NEVER met an African that has relayd that thought to me EVER...
There my have been a time when that wasa the "prevailing thought"...but it no longer exsists to my knowledge...
In actual fact...I have had just as many Africn men trying to date me as I have African American men...
And...
Back in the day(30yrs ago)...I used to hang out at the African Embassies...and I have NEVER... heard that type of conversation or thought...but then we only spoke about Pan Africanism...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape:
Yeah, but Benjamin Franklin said this, “Why increase the Sons of Africa, by planting them in America, where we have so fair an opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawny’s,…but perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my country, for such kind of partiality is natural to mankind.”
Benjamin Franklin was racist?
@ Granny:
We are saying the same thing in different ways...
I don't think the "founders" were racists...because there was no need for racism...they owned everything...including black people...and since they did not consider them people...the mindset of racism did not exsist then.
What I am saying is this...for the "prevailing thought" of the Declaration/Proclaimation (and only this document) to be fully realized...those in a position to be racists (whites with the authority to make decisions) MUST step up...to the "prevailing thought"...otherwise it is simply a thought...it does not prevail...(it aint worth the paper it's printed on :)
And Franklin...IMHO...he was not a man that had "prevailing thoughts"...he was more of an analyst and a person of science.
Peace and out again. (I gotta go to church in the morning :)
~agape2010~
Agape, the reason I brought Ben's statement up is because I sorta think that is one of the reasons why they never wanted to let a black man in the White House. I think ole Ben poisoned the well. In some ways, I believe some of the founding fathers had good intentions when they wrote all men are equal and meant it, but just like today we have those on the right who think like Ben.
I see what you saying Agape.
@ AB:
I saw those documentaries and they were very good...I'll give him that.
Did you see the one with Tina Turner...?...when he told her she had not a drop of Indian blood in her...she looked like she wanted o smack the shiz outta him!!!...lol
I felt bad for her because she had been living off that lie for years...she said people told her it was because of her high cheekbones....lol,lol,lol (don't get me wrong I love Tina)
Peace. and I'm out for real now.
~agape2010`
~
FN,
you are on point. totally on point.
Gates needs to sit down and STFU.
I'm gonna go to bed too. You good people have peaceful dreams and night.
"It wasn't Africans, Asians, Indians etc that crossed their boundaries to enslave other people."
Um, yes it was. Europeans were kidnapped by Africans and sold into slavery. About 1 million of them. You are grasping at straws. And whoever said that maybe those black slave traders didn't really know what the white man had instore for the people they were selling. haha.
Yeah, the black slave trader thought the black male they were selling would be treated like a king... that's why he had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. Really.
"I don't think the "founders" were racists...because there was no need for racism...they owned everything...including black people...and since they did not consider them people...the mindset of racism did not exsist then.'
Agape, I've always found that as a cop out, it's like an insult to the devil's intelligence. I refuse to believe they didn't consider Africans as "humans". Sure, they were able to compartmentalize humanity, they simply saw Africans and others as inferior, different, and lesser intellectual human beings.
How could white Euros not see Africans as part of the "human race"? How could they not realize they were making tangible communication and slave trading with other "humans"? How could white Euros have not known nor realized it should have been IMPOSSIBLE for them as humans to rape and impregnate "creatures" from the "animal" kingdom? I refuse to believe collectively they were that stupid, maybe a some, but not most. To say they thought we were "animals" is a deliberate cop out. Some people want you to believe white Euros were "ignorant about race/human labeling" only to hide the harsh truth on the VERY conscious evil decision they made towards other human beings.
To be so calculating and cast out such a despicable act on humanity, and while claiming to be so "superior" and "civilized", makes them much more accountable than any other race who enslaved other human beings. Period.
"Europeans were kidnapped by Africans and sold into slavery. About 1 million of them."
When? Provide more information please.
Lying bastards.
Its in y'alls blood to do bad things to each other be it slavery or N-word on N-word Crime...
Who shot Tu-pak, Biggie Smalls, Malcolm the Xth, Martin Lucifer King??
OK, I'll take the blame on MLK, but y'all don't even give that cracker James Earl Ray credit for the one thing in his life he didn't fuck up...
anyway, am I the only one who likes "Mo Better Blues"???
Saw it in the theater...drove about 500 miles lookin for Bleek Gilliam records...that was 1990 and you couldn't just go on Amazon or Ebay...
Frank
"Europeans were kidnapped by Africans and sold into slavery. About 1 million of them."
When? Provide more information please.
I can't swear to the numbers that the other poster provided but North Africans, Moors, Turks and Arab-Africans did indeed engage in slave wars and raids in the Mediterranean and as far north as Ireland. There was a pretty famous raid on the town of Baltimore, Ireland in 1631 in which virtually the entire village was kidnapped and enslaved in galleys or harems throughout Algeria and Libya.
Wars were fought between the European powers and the Barbary Coast pirates and the Ottoman Empire from the 15th-18th century in order to (for among other reasons) put a stop to the North African slave trade in Europeans. This was a HUGE problem for anyone traveling in the Mediterranean.
Remember that the US initially had to pay tribute-like most other nations to the Barbary Coast powers. As president, Thomas Jefferson ended this practice and the US had to fight two wars, "To the shores of Tripoli"..
The Ottomans were also huge traders in slaves-like the Barbary pirates they did not care what color their slaves were. The Battle of Lepanto occurred in part to prevent further Ottoman enslavement and free European galley slaves.
Yeah, but Benjamin Franklin said this, “Why increase the Sons of Africa, by planting them in America, where we have so fair an opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawny’s,…but perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my country, for such kind of partiality is natural to mankind.”
Benjamin Franklin was racist?
I think Franklin was racist. However he also changed during life. As a young man he advertised slave sales and owned slaves himself. By the 1760's he had started to change his opinion on black people. By 1770 he was writing anonymous anti-slavery opinion pieces and in his final years he came out of the closet so to speak and had joined an abolitionist group, became its president, spoke of slavery as a great evil and was promoting what we would understand today as affirmative action for black people. Of course it's easy to get religion so to speak after you've spent most of your life ducking the issue...
Gates creates a straw man to argue against. It's a pretty weak argument. It's like pointing out that there were Jewish guards at death camps or Indian soldiers defending the Raj. All of that is true as far as it goes but it doesn't change the larger fact of who came up with the idea to exterminate Jews or colonize India.
Basically I think that Gates is trying to argue that the enslavement of Blacks was no big deal or not historically unique.
Not true.
And no one seriously is talking about reparations for enslavement of Blacks.
It's like pointing out that there were Jewish guards at death camps or Indian soldiers defending the Raj. All of that is true as far as it goes but it doesn't change the larger fact of who came up with the idea to exterminate Jews or colonize India.
This is true but it doesn't stop the Black bashers from using a similar argument and convincing more people that slavery was a self inflicted evil. How often had I heard that Africans were responsible for slavery, as a way to shut me up or to portray me as having no moral footing to argue with them about racism. This was long before Gates had written this article.
Field Negro:
On this one we are in rare agreement.
I had printed the article out after my best friend in the world RiPPa had posted it last week and read it last night during a banquet last night in downtown Atlanta in a room full of wealthy Negros.
Filled Negro I contrasted the focus upon the power of the White Man's whip from slavery against what I was looking at - the "100 Black Women Of Atlanta's" annual scholarship ball. I have to tell you Filled Negro - they discounted your home land. While one "descendant of slavery" won an auction for an $8000 trip to Paris, bidding $4,800 in this "Bush Recession" and Cayman Islands went for $3,100 it was strange that Jamaica was only $2,200.
Think about it Filled Negro. FRANCE the nation that gave us HAITI is in 2010 a tourist destination for Negroes who are wealthy. Whereas the majority of the Blacks in Cuba will never make it to Philly because their GOVERNMENT will not allow them to go........there is a band of elite Blacks who reside in 'the Belly Of The Beast' - their former Slave Colony who travel and stay at the finest accommodations.
In effect, Filled Negro, they EXIT the "belly of the beast" on a jet plane and then willingly enter the airport of a DIFFERENT historical oppressor.
Still - the best way to get Black folks passionately debating is NOT to talk about how the PUBLIC SCHOOLS OF TODAY house the Negro leaders, doctors, managers, and those who are skilled with sociology to craft the Black Community circa 2050.
I would be remiss if I failed to mention horticulturalists. You see Filled Negro in listening to NPR's "Tell Me More" I learned that there are "FOOD DESERTS" in Urban America and thus there is a growing FOOD JUSTICE movement. Broccoli and Green Beans over Big Mac Value Meals....."YES you can upside it for me Sir. Throw some catchup and salt in with that as well."
Just thing about the vision Filled Negro. The CIVIL RIGHTS FIGHTER of yesterday which got the Klan to stop molesting us will be the URBAN CROP GROWER of tomorrow who harvests foods in the fight against the KILLERS: Obesity, Diabetes and Renal Failure. Instead of "Sit Ins" he will need to master crop rotation". Instead of "Violating White's Only" sitting rooms he will need to figure out how to use organic concoctions to keep pests away. I have no shame in saying Filled Negro - I have dealt with a roach or two while growing up in Philly. If they are ravenous inside of the house I can just image what they'll do to a garden outside of the house if there are not sufficient human brain power pitted against it to refrain it from eating the tomatoes.
Sadly, Filled Negro, though THIS IS THE PRIORITY while will develop our FUTURE - the way one get's "Street Cred" among some Blacks is to prove that he has NOT GOTTEN OVER THE PAST which he can't change.
When HISTORY is used as a "self-chumming" element to draw Negro anger we must evaluate the OPPORTUNITY COSTS as compared with that which we SHOULD BE FOCUSING UPON but are not.
I totally agree with you, but gosh, every time I see that picture of him in handcuffs in front of his own house, I think that must have had an effect on him psychologically. And NOT to say that other black folks haven't had the same humiliations and abuses, but (1) he probably hasn't had so much as others in his life and (2) he's articulate enough to turn any pathology into a scholarly article.
"I can't swear to the numbers that the other poster provided but North Africans, Moors, Turks and Arab-Africans:"
I figured someone was going to come with something like that. Notwithstanding. Northern Africa and the Mediterranean have been feuding and enslaving each other for millennia. It was the ARABIAN diaspora who spear=headed abductions and traded white Euro slaves among the Mediterranean diaspora. Why didn't the white Euros enslave them instead of "Nubians"? Those higher North African groups of people also kidnapped and enslaved various African tribes for centuries, and they are still doing it.
It's interesting how for centuries those same groups of people who just happen to share the upper part of the African continent never felt kinship with the African Nubian Diaspora, as well as outsiders who have always excluded them from the black race, but only when their transgressions are on the table, we must then claim them.
"I'm going to take a stab at it...if the "founding fathers" "virute" was..."We hold these TRUTHS to be to be SELF EVIDENT, that ALL MEN are CREATED equal, they are ENDOWED with certin INALIENABLE RIGHTS, that AMONG these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS....(Thomas Jefferson)
Then...the standard that we have now in this society does not allow for much of what this coutry was "founded" on (prevailing thought)...not just for blacks (who were not considered human at that time)...but for a majority of people in this country.
IF..and that's a big IF...we are going to uphold this Declaration/Proclaimation of prevailing thought...we cannot continue to have this great divide of economic disparity between groups...or educational disparity...or city services disparity...or (fill in the blanks) disparity."
agape, you took a stab and killed it. I co-sign 100%.
"You missed the point Field. He merely revealed that there never existed any kind of mythical African Nation. Why did Pan-African ideology go nowhere? Just look at Africa's past.The evil that men do was present in Africa too. Lastly, he pointed out the futility of the reparations argument."
I don't think I did. You give Skippy way too much credit. He was no trying to give us a historical reason for the failure of Pan Africanism, what he was trying to do, as others above have said, is make excuses for the horrors of slavery here in A-merry-ca.
Sup Rippa? De yawdies did their damn thing at the Penn Relays yesterday. Lots of curry goat and Ting with my fam from Manchester int he stands. :)
"Gates creates a straw man to argue against. It's a pretty weak argument. It's like pointing out that there were Jewish guards at death camps or Indian soldiers defending the Raj. All of that is true as far as it goes but it doesn't change the larger fact of who came up with the idea to exterminate Jews or colonize India."
Great point SG.
LaCoincidental, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. No harm no foul.I usually agree with you 90% of the time.
"Europeans were kidnapped by Africans and sold into slavery. About 1 million of them."
I will have to second La~audio and ask for a link. Take your time, I will wait....
One of the founding father did not believe in the practice or theory of slavery and that was John Adams. He did not own slaves, but did not have the political wherewithal to end the practice, and the Compromise of 1790, 1820, and 1850 were used to prevent a civil war, but later happened in 1860. Adams did not own slaves and through his good business sense and frugality did not die in poverty like Jefferson. Jefferson spoke of pitfalls of slavery, but own them. How does one reconcile that contradiction is the question of the ages. These people were the men of their times. Lincoln mulled the idea of sending slaves to live elsewhere outside of the US. These men were politicians and their decisions reflected it. It was possible to against slavery and hold a negative view toward the people enslaved. Slavery was deemed as the peculiar institution and it is a true phase to say the least. Slavery was complex and certainly not self-inflicted. However, do you have wonder that the Europeans may not have been so successful in getting slaves from Africa, if not have some African were in complicit and participated in the act. The people who were enslaved were not fault for obvious reasons, but the one who sat back and allowed it to happened are because they did want to be slaves themselves.
Should ignore the facts of some African participation in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade? It is a topic that is not discussed within the black community because it is painful to believe that someone who like you would do such a thing. We have to remember that some African people do like African-Americans and believe that are weak. I came across such a person who was African and told me that he refuse to date a black woman from the US, but dating and marrying a white woman, no problem. Even went so far as to call me a nigger bitch. I would like to know where that come from, and it is part that complicated history. You do have some African people who blamed blacks for getting caught and becoming slaves, and it is irrational to believe it. Just like a woman is rape because of what she is wearing. I agree with LA and SG for including the role of Arab-Africans because there is historical evidence to support it. People tend forget that when Islamic armies came to conquer countries in North Africa, there idea was not to convert the enemies to Islam because that would mean they would have to share the booty as one of the tenets of Islam is to share with your fellow Islamic brothers and sisters, and that was not happening. When someone is not of your native or religious collective, it is very easy not to treat them nicely because they are not of the same community.
Hennasplace, what you wrote above was interesting. Although I am not sure I agree with you about some of the motivations of the founding fathers. I agree with you that it -slavery-was a complex issue at the time. But truly great men stick to their moral principles, regardless of the political climate.
It's interesting how for centuries those same groups of people who just happen to share the upper part of the African continent never felt kinship with the African Nubian Diaspora, as well as outsiders who have always excluded them from the black race, but only when their transgressions are on the table, we must then claim them
It's not about "claiming" per se. But if the relatively darker southern Europeans are still Europeans, are the relatively lighter Northern Africans still Africans?
If you read the contemporaneous accounts of the Europeans who were unlucky enough to be enslaved by various Barbary Coast pirates and survived or escaped you will see that some of the enslaved Europeans spoke of some African pirates in rather stark color terms:
"black as soot", "blackamoor", "black face" and etc.
It doesn't mean that the majority of Barbary pirates looked like that but clearly some did. Many of these pirates were the descendants of the Moors who had been expelled from Spain and Portugal.
"Why didn't the white Euros enslave them instead of "Nubians"?
They did when they could. But the reason more massive enslavement of North Africans didn't initially occur was probably because the North Africans and their Turkish overlords had a relatively higher level of military technology and more effective political organization from the 15th-18th century. When this was no longer the case, the Europeans were able to invade and subdue them just like everyone else. And they did just that with a vengeance. The French invaded Algeria in 1830 and by 1872 had depopulated the country by a third.
Getting back to Gates though I really do think that the not so hidden subtext of his opinion piece is to tell blacks to get over slavery. That's pathetic.
Geez, after reading some of the comments in this thread, I kinda wish I had spent more time in history class rather than science classes in college, LOL!!!
I definitely appreciate the comments from Granny, Shady, and a few others!!!
Henna's Place - We only need to look today at the complicity of SOME Black people in the destruction of our communities and the assault of people within. In our "Mystical Magical Pre-Colonial Africa" theory HUMAN BEINGS are promoted into a society full of "Kings and Queens". How does one king tell another king living next door to him what to do?
In as much as you all are prone to attack those who you all claim "don't want to talk about the damning HISTORY for fear of being forced to render an indictment upon the White man".......it is equally true that to-damned-day people who abdicate their present responsibility in the governance of the eco-system that we have control over in our communities instead focusing upon the GRAND INDICTMENT OF HISTORY - which is a sure shot way to unify Blacks - are EQUALLY as guilty of DENIAL.
Their denial has a far greater impact upon that little Black boy and that little Black girl who will be born in the hospital today. THEIR conditioning received over the next 20 years will be a product of that which the ADULTS who control the messages that their 5 senses and highly intelligent minds will receive to process.
Those who are fully articulate about how these acts from several hundred years ago still lurk with us TODAY are too often unable to articulate how PRESENT DAY HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT is the only thing that matters in setting a NEW COURSE.
We are today laying the tracks of what will be called HISTORY in the year 2110. Someone will ask "What did THEY DO, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING in the time period between their freedom and the CONSCIOUSNESS of this fact being made aware to them?"
Actually, there was only founding father who did not believe in the practice, and that was John Adams. The historical facts bear that Adams did stick to his principles with the defense of the British soldiers, and Cinque which was argued before the Supreme Court. The founding fathers did what was politically expedient to do, and the facts bear that out as well. Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison crafted the Compromise of 1790 because it was more important to preserve the union and Washington back the compromise. These compromises occurred every 30 years and the other two were 1820 and 1850. Sometimes you have to set your moral principal aside if it means preventing a civil war. Is anyone ever comfortable with the fact that hundreds of people died, but I stood on my moral principals? Suppose I have the moral principal to never lie, but face with in order to save another person's life I have to tell a lie? Or does my moral principal of preserving life more important than lying? you prioritizing your moral principal particularly you when you facing a situation that you have not experienced that challenges your principles. People are moral when it is convenient. It is nice to be moral when nothing happens to test it. There is a difference between of what is principled and what is practiced
"After all he was indoctrinated by his "massa" Willie Lynch."
Catch up on your history.There was no Willie Lynch.
What Skip Gates said is essentially correct about Africa. The reason so many are worked up about it is because ti deconstructs the myth of African/Black unity. The African slave traders couldn't care less what happened to those they sold into bondage? Why? Because they didn't have any African or black conciousness. That's a modern day meme that folks try and project into that era-It didn't exist! Allot of folks here are engaging in what historians call "presentism," which is project current beliefs, values, and social on eras where no such structures existed.
Off Topic:
Hey Field, according to Amy Holmes, you and other bloggers are no better than Rush Limbaugh, because you all call her "House-N."
She said that on CNN Reliable Sources this morning.
Anon 11:01a:
I agree with your premise, we are using our 21st sensibility to do something that occurred more than 300 years ago. These were people of their time and our time. This is also human behavior of better them than me and does and will not change. I have been trying to say in my previous comments. You do need to look at history within the context of that time and not present. The fact is that was some African participation in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. This happened in Latin America as well with the Conquistadors came to the new world, and built alliances with enemy tribes to help conquer the Aztec. This is not a new tactic and has been done through all most parts of the world with a couple of exceptions of Peru and Northern India when Akbar the Great ruled and left the Indian culture and religion in tact so he could easier rule the region without much opposition.
I really hope Gates doesn't successfully project his thinking concerning reparations onto that of the president. Obama has enough problems with birthers types and racists in general as it is. Gates is just giving them more ammunition.
What a friend.
Skip Gates needs a visit from the Drop Squad.
if no one is talking about or interested in reparations, this is a pointless article.
but it's really mistitled, instead of "ending the slavery blame game," it should be called RESTARTING the blame game!
he's clearly not at all interested in ending it.
he's prolonging it and profiting from it. his motives have been suspect to me for a long time. i don't like his for-profit gene typing company he's got going on the side.
maybe he's just trying to stir up interest in genealogy to boost that company of his. he's already a millionaire and its unlikely the NYT would have paid him for that piece. that's not the way newspapers operate.
btw, i wonder why he didn't self-publish this on the the root.com. and why the NYT disabled the comments on his piece.
i agree, field, if he wanted to talk about history, fine, but caging it this way was ridiculous. isn't obama kind of busy already? is this part of the "black agenda?"
methinks not.
but i don't agree that americans are any better humans than anywhere else, that we have some kind of higher moral character. that kind of flag-waving is a bit more than i can stand. and our actions continue to prove otherwise.
here's his site. notice the "place an order" option on the right.
http://www.africandna.com/
There are an awful lot of people here arguing that even though they acquired black slaves from African tribes, whites are still ultimately responsible for slavery because it was their idea or something.
BULLSHIT.
Chattel slavery traces its roots to Africa. Afrocentrics like to tell that the Greeks got their architecture, mathematics, drama from the Egyptians, which is more or less true, but from them they also got the idea that it is permissible to own people as property, hence the explosion of the Mediterranean slave trade in the Archaic period.
While we're on the subject, it's also a good time to point out that the Egyptians weren't black, and in fact hated the black Nubian tribes to the south. Field, if you went to the King Tut exhibit in Philly a couple of years ago, you saw the statue with the Pharaoh standing on black people's heads.
Anyway, my point is this: trying to blame any group that exists now (whether it's specific like the Federal government of the United States, or just "white people") for the evils for slavery is simplistic and misguided, not to mention counterproductive.
As for Skip Gates, the brother's got a good hustle going. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Maria go sit down somewhere.
"What Skip Gates said is essentially correct about Africa. The reason so many are worked up about it is because ti deconstructs the myth of African/Black unity. The African slave traders couldn't care less what happened to those they sold into bondage? Why? Because they didn't have any African or black conciousness"
Yes, what he said was true about African tribes. So what? My point is this: how is that relevant to the dehumanization of an entire race of people when they got to the "New World"? No one is arguing about the historical accuracy of Skippy's thesis.
"Hey Field, according to Amy Holmes, you and other bloggers are no better than Rush Limbaugh, because you all call her "House-N."
She said that on CNN Reliable Sources this morning.
"
Whatever Amy. If the cap fits.
Anon 11:50a
Slavery can be traced back to the Code of Hammurabi which is the earliest written record of the practice. That is ancient Babylon which was a city-state of ancient Mesopotamia now current day Iraq. However, slavery was practiced throughout the ancient world including Africa. It is difficult where slavery began first because of the lack of written record, but currently we have the Code of Hammurabi to support the evidence. It does not mean that slavery began in Babylon just we have the earliest record of the practice.
@Anon (11:01 & 11:44) you make a valid point -- the act on Skip Gates really comes from the fact that the 'Black Unity' Zeitgeist popular since the 70, really an American and not a historically African movement. Yes, there were movement like la Negritude, but those were mostly intellectual movements that found their outgrowth from the early civil rights movement and emancipation movements of the late 1800's to early 1900's.
@agape - You made my point, fam. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that the Founding Fathers were rich white people protecting their political and economic interests from other rich white people -- or more specifically, a rich white person. No serious historian is claiming these were perfect or flawless.
And nothing Skip Gates said is anything different than what most people would learn is a second year African American studies course, if not Af-Am Studies 101. Beat up Skip Gates for being a Patio Negro is perfectly fine. Like many of the Black over class, Henry Louis Gates gave up caring about using his position as a bully pulpit long ago. But taking the man to task for saying something that's factual is just wrong.
@Not_RJ -- Amy Holmes is right wing stooge and a house Negro, so its no shock that she's calling out bloggers. She's mad because there are Black folks who are just as informed and educated as she is calling her out on her bullshit online. Amy Holmes is a second rate analyst only getting a paid because she's a mouthpiece as for the worse form of neo-Conservative thought. She needs to get over herself.
@ LA:
I understand your POV and you make a great argument.
However; I did not say that the “founders” of the prevailing thought believed African humanity were animals…although that was one of the prevailing thoughts as proven when black military members went to Europe and were thought to have tails by the Europeans. Further, when one of the white members of this society occasionally makes the serious faux pas with an ignorant statement such as: “Look at that little monkey run!” or “That monkey sure can get loose.” (Howard Cosell commenting on the prowess of a black running back and a black boxer, respectively) it does seem to have been, and may still be for some…one of the “founders” prevailing thoughts of the “founders”.
With regard to the Declaration/Proclamation the “prevailing thought” was for whites only. Africans were not regarded as human and they were most certainly compartmentalized by color and size. We only have to look at the different sections across the country to see just how compartmentalized.
In the book, “White over Black: American Attitudes Toward the Negro, 1550-1812 by author Winthrop D. Jordan it is explained just how Africans were compartmentalized BEFORE European enslavement. There were described as Africans, blacks, negroes and niggers. All these described names were in existence before enslavement.
I do not give the “devil that much credit for intelligence”. After all, the devil’s mission is to destroy what is good and/or Godly. Sometimes the devil wins, but mostly the devil loses. I liken it to fighting air….:)
In essence, while you may believe whites did know they were dealing with intelligent Africans (which in fact they were because we are not destroyed and are no longer enslaved in that manner) I cannot give them that much credit. If they had been as intelligent as you say they would have known the difference between good and evil. No rational being chooses evil as a way of life.
More importantly, if those same enslavers (the “founders” with the “prevailing thought”) fully understood Christianity, which is alluded to in their prevailing thought they would not have enslaved Africans and had another “prevailing thought”…to serve money rather than God…the sole purpose of enslavement of Africans as you well know.
In the most simplistic words I can manage for my thoughts are this….they really weren’t all that smart and they proved that by their actions…and those that do not step up to the prevailing thought of the Declaration/Proclamation…are lost to their “founders” other prevailing thoughts.
Peace.
~agape2010~
field negro said...
"...Yes, what he said was true about African tribes. So what? My point is this: how is that relevant to the dehumanization of an entire race of people when they got to the "New World"? No one is arguing about the historical accuracy of Skippy's thesis.
That's the point many of those people side-step when the say, "oh well, it was Africans who sold Africans into bondage" in justification of slavery's brutality.
Since when have Europeans followed the African's lead in anything?
Field,
The chain of blame stretches from North America to Europe to Africa. How, knowing that historical complication, can reparations be paid? Should Europeans who come from descendants of countries that had nothing to do with slavery pay? Should Latvians, Greeks, Estonians, Russians (the majority of whom were serfs until the 1860s) pay? How will Latinos and Asians react to having to pay for slavery? Will descendants of Africans who traded slaves have to pay? Should darker skin blacks get more than visibly mixed blacks? Where will the money come from? How much should be paid? How would you determine? How many politicans could you find willing to sacrifice their careers to vote for such a bill?
Reparations is a non starter for all those reasons and more. If we really want to do something to uplift African Americans descended from slaves then we need to push for an economic restructuring of this country. That, more than anything, would work. Of course the poor--and even the middle class--of all persuasions would be uplifted as well.
Blacks fought for the Confederates, so does mean we were all for slavery?
@ LA:
As for the subject of racism...MHO is formed on the basis of the enslavers having all the power and exercising it. In that regard I suppose that it can be called racism.However; enslavement goes beyond racism. Enslavement is more sinister...more insidious (likened to that devil we discussed).
My considerations of racismare in a more modern context dealing with the after affects/effects (issues) of enslavement...most of which is explored on this blog.
I thank you for the discussion. I learned something from you, which is this...
I understand more why some people have a rejection to Christianity... The document of the Declartion/Proclamation and its prevailing thought have no value to people that believe the "founders" of the "prevailing thought" were Christians...had they been...they would see humanity in any color.
Again thank you.
Peace.
~agape2010~
"I'm going to take a stab at it...if the "founding fathers" "virute" was..."We hold these TRUTHS to be to be SELF EVIDENT, that ALL MEN are CREATED equal, they are ENDOWED with certin INALIENABLE RIGHTS, that AMONG these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS....(Thomas Jefferson)
There's an enormous of presentism going on in this discussion. The historically accurate way to read this is "All (Anglo Saxon men of property) are created equal. This is was considered highly radical, and yes, virtuous, at the time. These words in no way were seen as applying to Africans; they simply didn't count as real citizens. Nor did they apply to women of any race.
That entire declarations served as a refutation of the monarchial thinking going in Europe at the time. We shouldn't try and transpose modern values or interpretations to that time.
agape - have to correct you. The Declaration of Independence were outgrowths of the enlightenment, freemasonry and Judeo-Christian, but not necessarily the church or the current thoughts of theology. And the founding fathers had varying views on religion.
And the founding fathers may not have had an Einstein or Oppenheimer, but these were certainly intelligent and well educated men.
Also, you have to look at slavery in a detached, historical context. The concept that all men should be free is a recent historical development. Slavery was accepted practice throughout the world for centuries. It was seen as a political given of conquering states and an economic necessity until the Industrial Revolution.
Also, the very fact that we're having these conversations have more to do with the thoughts of Jefferson and Franklin than our African ancestors. So we can't say these folks were stupid or somehow count ourselves as outside this political meme.
Honestly, we need to move away from what is called 'Orientalism' -- a romanticized view, if not outright fetish, of Eastern culture (but also any indigenous, non-European society) within modern Western Thought. Oversimplified Pan-Africanism is not useful.
Has the greater Western society done wrong by Black folks and continue to do so? Yes, but that's a given. However, we cannot ignore history
@ anon:
"There's an enormous of presentism going on in this discussion. The historically accurate way to read this is "All (Anglo Saxon men of property) are created equal. This is was considered highly radical, and yes, virtuous, at the time. These words in no way were seen as applying to Africans; they simply didn't count as real citizens. Nor did they apply to women of any race."
With the exception of using the words Anglo Saxon and women...I said virtually the same thing....
So...???? :)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Hold Up FN:
Mr. Gates has made it clear over and over again that he is not fully Negro. He is officially over 50% White. So please stop lumping him in with the other regular Black folks. He's special. Just ask his White wife. Notice that she was nowhere to be seen when the whole beerfest went down.
@ LA:
I think you may be reading too much into what I am saying...my point is very focused...my point only translates into the INTENT of the prevailing thought.
The INTENT of the prevailing thought is one that has evolved and must continue to evolve...that to me is a given.
It is a Judeo-Christian prevailing thought...as I stated earlier...when I capitalized the word CREATOR and INALIENABLE when we began the discussion...the fact that they were freemasons only add to the Christian belief system at that time. None of which has to do with theology...but does have alot to do with the church... which is what/who the "founders" were runnig from when they left their countries.
And the reason we give more value and discusson to the thoughts of the "founders" is a direct affect/effect of the European indoctrination blacks have in America.
Blacks...generally...are more informed about the "founders" than our own ancestry...because that is the basis of our European education...it is only when we have the desire to know where we came from and who we are as a people that we seek this information out...it is not something that is freely given in public schools.
The idea that men should be free is not a new or modern idea...people having been living free since the beginning of mankind...they have also been enslaved since the beginning of mankind for all the reasons you stated...and we have enslavement in this country now, for all the reasons you stated...while WE are FREE to discuss it.
I do not adhere to the romantic view of European tradition and cultrure for blacks...I get that some of the "founders" wanted to evolve into better men...hence the "prevailing thought" of the Declaration/Proclamation...has it been realized...?...IMHO it is still evolving...as does history...not from a detached POV...but from an affectual, happening now POV...
And...
It's a lovely day here...I want to enjoy some of it...:)
I enjoyed the journey :)
Peace and out.
~agape2010~
Why is Gate's narrative revelant now? What drives his commentary? He knows his scholarship wll give quarter to white racists, the paternalism of white liberals and the affirmation of Black apologists
Cleary Gates has an agenda of course that does not mean I have order off his menu..
Filled Negro:
Does it bother you that you suggest that SEVERAL DECADES of education and good works invested by Dr Gates have been TRUMPED by his one weekend of VICTIMIZATION by "Da Man"?
Seriously - think more deeply about what you are doing for the sake of "inferiorizing" the argument of this learned man. You are prone to disagree with his findings on this subject in which he indicts the African "African Equal Human Being Catcher"
(Side Note: The notion that someone is a SLAVE CATCHER IS PURELY IGNORANT. Essentially a FREE EQUAL HUMAN BEING who had spent untold centuries on his own damned land, who had implemented a system of SELF DETERMINATION that not even his progeny living today [us] have reached is called a SLAVE prior to him even being 'caught'.
If a "bear trapper" is a human being that ensnares bears in his traps.......those who seek to impugn their racial brothers who's only sin is to disagree with their own fundamentalist views are the ones who really are INSULTING THE AFRICAN. Our people were not 'SLAVES' they were ENSLAVED. The term "Slave Catcher" applies to the subject that is being CAUGHT.
I hope that with this bit of schooling some of you will cease from showing IGNORANCE and not make use of this term which in effect calls all Pre-Colonial Africans "SLAVES" before they were even captured.
Who are you people replying to, LA audio or LA inconcidedntal. My God you can't even get your names correct. No wonder the "white devils" out smarted you.
CF,
Does if feel that good to engaged in trival pursuit..You have by far the lowest self esteem of any blogger regardless of thier dan I have ever encountered on the internet..
What drives your low self esteem and the obession to matter and so desperate for affirmation?
Please help me understand your pathology. Trust me I know the impact and effect white racism can have on Black folks and other minority groups from worship of thier woman, god,money to "Slave Catcher"
Please help a brother out..I will help you inflate your doll..I really would
[quote]He knows his scholarship wll give quarter to white racists, the paternalism of white liberals[/quote]
Thrasher:
More "White Snarling Fox Liberals" will hear various Civil Rights Leaders call Black people "THE LEAST OF THESE" and thus will assume our INFERIORITY per the damage that history had rendered upon those who cover themselves in this cloak than will ever be treated to the article published by Gates. Trust me on this one.
[quote]and the affirmation of Black apologists[/quote]
Please define what a "Black Apologist" is Thrasher?
What if someone believes that the ultimate fate of a little Black boy who is today crawling around on the floor as an infant will be brought to fruition MORE by the actions of the ADULTS that shape the eco-system that he will come to full consciousness about the world around him by THAN that which you our anyone else can teach him about what the Europeans did to the Africans in 1710.
[quote]
Cleary Gates has an agenda of course that does not mean I have order off his menu..[/quote]
Be honest Thrasher - at the high of the "Gates gate" last year DID YOU consider the proposition that what GATES is thinking and experiencing is OPTIONAL for you to consider as YOUR OWN?
It seems like many a Negro tried to "Live Vicariously" through the handcuffs which detained Gates' hands behind his back as administered by the WHITE COP and as validated by the Black Cop who stood by.
Gates must be your role model..A conflicted Black man who married a white woman and when he got in trouble with the "posse" he played the race card...Is that going to be your saga as well??
CF maybe I will bring my pump to help inflate that doll lol,lol
[quote]You have by far the lowest self esteem of any blogger regardless of thier dan I have ever encountered on the internet..[/quote]
Thrasher as a learned man (I assume this is your gender) YOU help me out.
Please make a convincing argument that YOU HAVE OBSERVED MY "LOW SELF ESTEEM". I am sure that in your day you have gone through several MOCK TRIALS. Beyond relying on the members of the jury who already believe that you have made your case prior to them even stepping into the jury box - LET'S HEAR YOU substantiate your claim.
Let me let you in on an observation just prior. You see YOU confuse the POPULAR NARRATIVE that is spoken and accepted amongst Black people with the EXCLUSIVE and AUTHENTIC narrative. I do not.
I make note of all of the highly agendized, propagandized, obfuscatory and diversionary tactics that are used.
YOU hate when I disrupt the party by moving back to the BOTTOM LINE.
I assure you Thrasher - IF YOU some how got every single African American and WHITE FOLK on the North American continent to have an ACCURATE VIEW of what happened between 1492 and 1865 as well as 1866 through 2008 when Obama was elected - IT WOULD NOT move our people ONE STEP CLOSER to formulating a SYSTEM by which we are able to tap into the productive capacity of all of the EQUAL HUMAN RESOURCES that we have access to WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY.
You have the floor bro. Tell me about my LOW SELF ESTEEM which you can't see is actually a low tolerance for B.S.!!!!!
[quote]Gates must be your role model..A conflicted Black man who married a white woman and when he got in trouble with the "posse" he played the race card...Is that going to be your saga as well??[/quote]
Come on Mr "Law School". I presently have HIGH EXPECTATIONS for you. Surely you can put together a more comprehensive argument rather than back alley B.S. and taunting.
With each post you are DEFLATING the image of the blow up Voodoo doll that I have representing you.
CF,
Why does Gates matter to you? What value does he add to your personhood?
Obviously his findings are not a newsflash nor advance anything in any discipline So Please elaborate why does Gates matter to you??
WHy should I care about the musings of white liberals?
You define a Black apologist since you question my application of the term.
CF,
You remind me of a Black person that has never had a Black doctor, real estate agent, banker nothing where you gave another Black man your trust
You had Black parents a Black mother but that was never good enough..Black selfhate probably has an early part of your life..I bet you have nappy hair and big lips and I bet your white is lightskinned..
Thrasher, when are you going to acknowledge CF's request for comprehensive argument to defend your position?
CF is a black apologist, because he questions you is weak.
"I bet you have nappy hair and big lips and I bet your wife is lightskinned...
Sorry about that sometimes my dicatation machine does not pick up my words..I am a quad BTW...
ANON,
You never adressed my request about posting as an intellectual coward using an alias..Please you have no standing with me until such occurs..
CF,
My issue with Black apologists like you is at the BOTTOM LINE what value do you bring to the collective.
I have come to this site for years now and you have continued to attack FN but where is your footprints or body of work in the community. I observe a envious person consumed by your own shortcomings and failure so instead of offering up some value all you do is express inane insights, faulty questions and convoluted nothingness...
CF,
If a Black man was shot 100 times in a KKK Firing Squad you would blame him if the bullet count confirmed only 99 bullets struck him..
Enjoy the afternoon..I have to recharge my batteries...
Thrasher said...
ANON,
You never adressed my request about posting as an intellectual coward using an alias..Please you have no standing with me until such occurs..
I have no comprehensive argument to support my inane position would have sufficed.
Last thing. as mentioned I really do think Gates had a deeper agenda here. There is simply too much historical evidence of the barbarity of the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade to waste too much time talking about African complicity.
For example in 1781, Luke Collingwood of the Zong, a slave ship, noticed that sickness was spreading among the slaves. If the slaves died of "natural causes" the loss would be shared by the owners of the ship and crew, but if the slaves were thrown overboard it would be the loss of the underwriters. So of course over the next two days they threw roughly 100 slaves overboard, hands bound. The insurers refused to pay the claim and the owners sued.
In addition, Reverend John Newton, a former slaver, wrote this:
"When the women and girls are taken on board a ship, naked, trembling, terrified...they are
often exposed to the wanton rudeness of white savages. The poor creatures cannot understand the language they hear but the looks and manners of the speakers are sufficiently intelligible. In imagination the prey is divided...Where resistance or refusal would be utterly in vain, even the solicitation of consent is seldom thought of...[they were] abandoned, without restraint to the lawless will of the first comer.
Gates must be aware of all this as it's in a pretty famous pamphlet "Thoughts upon the African Slave Trade". That Gates chooses to use a NYT podium to talk about the evil African chiefs is indeed odd.
Before I read the thread brother Field I want to say Thank God! I am still on my retreat and just finished checking out my church service on-line and thought it wouldn't hurt to find out what's going on in the world. I came across Gates article as I was looking at the NYTimes on line to catch up and of course one of the most e-mailed was Gates ahistorical, exaggerated, claptrap.
Thank you Field I was hoping someone would call him on this.
"Does it bother you that you suggest that SEVERAL DECADES of education and good works invested by Dr Gates have been TRUMPED by his one weekend of VICTIMIZATION by "Da Man"?"
No!
Gates need to remind Black folks we enslaved each other was his compensation for being a noble Black man.
Gates knows of course his narrative does not advance any new boundaries in this area of research..Selfish Black apologists like Gates have no desire to consider the poltical leverage of this research..They are driven by deep seated emotions of low self esteem and the validation of whites..
I read the article, and do not see the purpose or any new revelations.
However, there is one point that caught my eye:
In David Remnick’s new book “The Bridge: The Life and Rise of Barack Obama,” one of the president’s former students at the University of Chicago comments on Mr. Obama’s mixed feelings about the reparations movement: “He told us what he thought about reparations. He agreed entirely with the theory of reparations. But in practice he didn’t think it was really workable.”
We missed the window of reparations. Forty acres and a mule in the mid 19th century would have made a great positive economic impact to generations of enslaved descendants.
Just imagine the black-owned businesses (cotton, textiles, produce, etc) that could have spawned from 40-acres and mule.
Instead of granting freed slaves economic power, the government granted them the illusion of political power (first black Senators from Louisiana and Mississippi).
If the white man is nothing else, he's shrewd.
Further, today, in my opinion, we are still chasing political power instead of economic empowerement, in general.
Wow this thread is amazing.
Hennasplace- great info sister. Good point on WEB Dubois. I guess we agree sometimes
Thrasher- Dag man you started it off. Let up on CF (lOL)
CF actually you make a good point about slave catchers. And you are right, the question is; what are we to do now?
Rippa- you nailed it
Agape- what up sister, you kind of went there, but good thinking
Granny- always on it
LAC- I really wish I had time to take on some of what you said, but suffice it to say that while I see your point, when you read the article carefully you will notice that he takes a few examples and makes them the norm.
You are right about the short falls of Pan Africanism. But my brothere the idea of oppressed folks and colonialized folks trying to get together to find more breathing room for one another is always a good idea.
And don't be so hard on the Orientalist they are no better and no worse for sure than the Eurocentrist.
Maria you make a good point Gates is actually re-opening the controversy. However and Field had this a bit wrong there are still groups that are organized around the idea of reparations that are still somewhat active. N'COBRA comes to mind. Of course in this economy they ain't gettin no play.
My view;
The real problem with Gate's article is besides his slight exaggerations and his claiming to know what was in the minds of the Africans selling their brothers to the degenerate European slave traders- who is he talking to?
Lets be honest (LAC) this article is not about historical accuracy.Like somebody said earlier in the thread, black folks know that Africans were complicit in the slave trade. And most folks also knew that Africans on the continent were not a monolith. We also know that slavery has been a part of human society for a very long time.
The goal of this article has to be-- or it sure appears to be-- cowtowing to the white majority and the power structure.
And he is not innocent, he is too smart to not know that this just gives aide and comfort to the folks who don't like black folks.
Because it doesn't settle the reparations argument it says for the defenders of all heinous crap originated by white folks, that well, 'yall aint so bad, we was bad too.'
'Yeah we did the same thing, exact same our evil was just as bad as your evil. In fact if it wasn't for ya'll doing evil we wouldn't have done what we did.'
And for that reason it makes it shameful. Most white folks and everyone else knows that Chattel slavery was practiced in the US. A very new kind of inhumanity towards man's fellow man. NO matter what Gates says, the selling of Africans to Europeans is not the same as enslaving them and pretending that they weren't human and in fact treating them that way.
And they did such a good job of that even to this day (CF) there are still folks who doubt our place in the human family. They act out on this every day its called racism.
Field, long time no write.
Let me just say how deplorable Mr. Gates is, and how he's the reason why there's a rift between Black elites and the Black lower class. While people try to blame that separation on people like Mo'nique and Tyler Perry, the real difference is in the exceptionalism and internal bigotry of some Black people who, having already 'made it', see no need to care much about the rest of us.
I guess he needs another reminder of what it's like to be a slave de facto.
"Because it doesn't settle the reparations argument"
It's worth mentioning that no one here is tackling the reparations argument and its unworkability.
"I did not say that the “founders” of the prevailing thought believed African humanity were animals…although that was one of the prevailing thoughts as proven when black military members went to Europe and were thought to have tails by the Europeans."
If I may point out, those were Europeans still in Europe indulging tales about the "savages" in the new world. What about the white Euros who enslaved Africans in America and Caribbean diaspora and were in daily close contact with the Africans? Did they see any tails?
What about the white Euro slave owner in America/Caribbean who was raping African females from the tender age of 8 years old? Surely he didn't see any tails. What about his Euro wife who had African female slaves cook, clean and breast feed her white baby? Then ordered those very black breast to be sliced off in a jealous rage to spite her white husband for dare lusting over them. Surely she didn't see any tails. What about the master and the overseers who whipped and hung African slave men/women and other unspeakable acts? Surely they didn't see any tails.
I understand your premise, but where was their moral compass? They didn't treat horses, cows and pigs (who were clearly "not people") with such disdain and malevolence as they did to African slaves. It was what it was, pure greed and evilness from the same people who claimed "civility/christianity" and had the nerve to hug, tuck and kiss their white children in beds at night. That's what a lot of people don't want to deal with, nor admit. No excuses!
"The Europeans were able to invade and subdue them just like everyone else. And they did just that with a vengeance. The French invaded Algeria in 1830 and by 1872 had depopulated the country by a third."
Shady Grady, I am not disagreeing with you, but again, I want the record to show it was Arabians and other non-Africans etc, who evaded those northern African countries centuries beforehand. It was the ARABIANS and their descendants living in Algeria and Libya who spear-headed those attacks on white Euros - regardless of who tagged along. And of course the black indigenous tribes/people still living in those northern African countries had to suffer and bear the burden of being accused of "enslaving white Euros" (thanks to the anony) all because of ARABIANS. That was my point.
this is a rather intriguing, and terribly fawning, NYT profile of gates, from 1990!
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/01/magazine/black-studies-new-star-henry-louis-gates-jr.html?pagewanted=1
But we all know why "little" Asians were spared, and Africans were chosen.
I guess I don't know, but from one black to another it sounds quite racist to me. I hope I am wrong.
Anonymous said...
Who are you people replying to, LA audio or LA inconcidedntal. My God you can't even get your names correct. No wonder the "white devils" out smarted you.
>>>>>>>>>
This MUST be a rhetorical question, because the answer is obvious, LOL!!!
It's the one least likely to be undereducated, underpaid, and jealous of the success of others, LOL!!! Oh yeah, he READS books too!!
How could white Euros not see Africans as part of the "human race"
Cause of them big ole lips!!
How could white Euros not see Africans as part of the "human race"
Cause of them big ole lips!!
Anony 4:53, I placed "little" in quotations for a reason, just as I did for "savage" and "animals" pertaining to black people. Get a grip.
The reparations arugment exsists on a mumber of layers on the economic level compensation will not be possible for logistics reasons....One the political layer the reparations issues has a number of advantages for Black activists with talking points to defeat white privledge and the myth of white merit..On the cultural layer reparations works to remind whites how the numerical advantage still required our excellance and imput and parity is required despite the inequity of the pairings..
Many times white folks have confronted me with the talking point how come I will not let go of the crimes against dead Black folks...When white jewish people go there I simply remind them I never question their memorials or memories about the holocuast...
When whites confront me I often tell them when black souls were cast away into the pain of insult and depravity thier wounds , tears amd screams were not in hollow chambers..Thier voices and sirens are heard today..
It is honorable to wage a war for the dignity of a person a people who no one thought were human..I am privledged and honored to seek the dignity of Black souls not just to get back at white folks or for petty vengence..No I seek the dignity and honor of the laws of humanity for these laws live forever and tears and fears of a people forsaken by the inhumanity of another will be restored by my efforts....I can do this for them.. In my world of humanity no being dies alone even those who souls left the orbit centuries ago that others deem as nothing..
Yeah, it's a real bitch when a black professor thinks for himself, and makes mistakes along the way. Fuck that, we want a robot.
anon 5:59,
If you are speaking of Gates, that article isn't original thinking.
FN said, "What debate over reparations? Sorry Skippy, I am not sure what circles you run in, but I don't hear black folks asking for reparations here in A-merry-ca."
Rippa pointed me to Gates' article earlier, and I thought exactly what you thought, "What debate? Where?"
I couldn't figure out why HLG wrote it. I also resent this idea that we don't know that some African tribes sold slaves. That's old news just as it's old news that Native Americans owned slaves.
Uh, does Gates think he's the only black person in America who has an education?
Plus, white folks have been using that argument for years to justify slavery and to dismiss white privilege. It's nothing but the old "you did it too," the same argument they use to justify saying the world "n*gg*r."
Ultimately, Gates is comparing apples and oranges anyway. Who's worried about the dead middle men of slavery here? Justice speaks to the long-term beneficiaries of making a people work for nothing and then setting up policies for keeping a boot heel on their necks.
I keep thinking that on some level Gates thinks if he can prove how many black people have white blood, especially in himself, racists will see the light and suddenly seek harmony, and black people will say "Racists are not heavy. They're our brothers." *SMH*
Is it possible he's secretly a white supremacist who thinks it's the white blood in a black body that makes all the difference in intelligence and success?
Come on, dude.
Blacks are enslaving blacks TODAY. In Haiti, for instance (google restavek).
Every race has been enslaved once, yes, even whites. There is a traffic of white women (sex) slaves, as we speak.
So, chill out.
Thrasher is an attorney (or at least attended law school). Please keep this in mind folks as you 'level set'.
My wife is from the Caribbean. Chocolate brown - just as I like em.
Here is how screwed up you are Thrasher. You feel more comfortable attacking ME because my views confront YOURS by magining that I exercised my "snow princess" fantasies by marrying "near white" and you assign this to my consciousness.
YET when we look at other Black men who's line of thinking is more favorable to yours and of those who LEFT THEIR BLACK WOMAN BEHIND - regardless of her hue ......YOU are far more likely to make the case that this male departed BECAUSE "Slavery stole our culture".
How does this make you feel man?
[quote]You remind me of a Black person that has never had a Black doctor[/quote]
I have a Black DENTIST. Does this count?
My doctor is a White male. A few years ago when I got my first prostate exam I sorely wished that the Black female who in on the list of physicians at this clinic did it rather than he.
[quote], real estate agent,[/quote]
We used a real estate agent from Barbados when we purchased this house years ago. Ask Filled Negro. Those Jamaicans and Caribbean folks ALWAYS are seeking to get referrals when it comes to professional services.
We also used a Jamaican mortgage broker for our first loan.
[quote]
banker nothing where you gave another Black man your trust[/quote]
I used to have a business checking account with "Capitol City Bank" in Atlanta when I was doing work with the city. As that contract ended their bank branches were out of my way so I closed the account. Now I have my money in "the White man's BANK".....just like YOU DO.
Another Black man my trust?
Thrasher. I am about to go bike riding with a BLACK MALE - MY SON. I am working to instill character in him as he grows so that he won't feel pressured to compromise himself by "race men" like YOU.
It seems that Gates is suggesting that there should be reparations on both continent Africa and the United States, but the idea is not realistic. I do not think anyone really knows how you disburse reparations. After all, we are talking about the same country that managed to squeeze Native Americans and now they live on Indian reservations with high incidences of diabetes, alcoholism & drugs, high unemployment. The same country where most of the treaties with Native Americans have lapsed, and the country does not technically belong to the US in the first place due to the treaties. A decision was made by the courts to pay Native Americans for Black Hills in the amount of $10 million almost 20 years ago. The government promised to pay Native Americans for the Black Hills back in the 1890s and never did, in fact the government drove them out of the region. Although, Native Americans did win the sue, they do not want the money, they want the land which poses a problem with people currently live there own homes. This country has over extended itself. I do not disagree that the US should pay reparations, but it's not happening no matter how much we have a debate about the topic.
[quote]
My issue with Black apologists like you is at the BOTTOM LINE what value do you bring to the collective.[/quote]
Thrasher:
A few weeks ago as I drove to the site where the Black woman in Atlanta was found with her head cut off I looked around at the people gathered on the corner. I promised that the next time someone attempts to impugn me by asking "WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE COMMUNITY" that I would go and bring TWO OF THESE BLACK MALES along with me for that person to ASK THEM THE SAME DAMNED THING!!! I am willing to allow myself to be judged by the efforts of TWO OF THEM - since people like you traffic in "Black Inferiority" among "the least of these" so much.
[quote]I have come to this site for years now and you have continued to attack FN but where is your footprints or body of work in the community.
[/quote]
Please define the terms of your measurements Thrasher. IF I presently contribute in proportion to my RESPONSIBILITIES is this a dereliction of duties in your view?
What if I told you that I depart my own family on Saturdays to go and mentor the young Black boys of ANOTHER BLACK MAN, most of whom have departed from his life? (or at minimum his home) Would this motivate YOU to reach out and ask this other EQUAL BLACK MAN what he is doing for the collective?
[quote]
I observe a envious person consumed by your own shortcomings and failure so instead of offering up some value all you do is express inane insights, faulty questions and convoluted nothingness...[/quote]
Clearly you have glasses and they are out of tune.
Thrasher as I listened to NPR yesterday I learned of a blog site that translates Chinese newspapers into English. This guy gets 20,000 hits per day. The reporter said "ONLY 20,000". If my own blog gets about 400 hits per day then my good friend Filled Negro gets about 600-700. Are you sure that I should be "envious"?
It is clear that you don't like the fact that I am observing FILLED NEGRO'S "SELF-CHUMMING" attempts and attempting to refocus him upon REAL issues that are impacting our community.
During the other post I got up out of my seat and went to the television to watch a news report. A BLACK COMMUNITY in south Fulton County had a community rally. They were SICK AND TIRED of the Street Pirates. The elderly residents can't even take an evening walk - the man said.
In your consciousness Thrasher - when I make note of this saga is MORE IMPORTANT than the damned Tea Party focus - it is YOU who get upset as I derail the NATIONALLY COORDINATED TALKING POINTS between:
* The Democratic Party
* White Liberals
* The Black Establishment
In some perverted way it seems that YOU believe that these Black community members who are concerned about where they live are not as important as the faceless White folks who assembled in the Tea Party.
It is YOU who needs to check himself.
CF,
NO it is YOU and I will continue to confront you and demand from your what you claim you seek from others..No unlike others in here I am not going to be exhausted by your trite nothingness..No I am going to crush your shallow talking points...I am going to slamm your empty examples and in congruent parables..No I am here to liberate you from your low self esteem and your need to have Black failure your doormat for existence .
BTW it is not other Black males that will compromise the manhood rites you have prepared for your son no that suspect will be YOU like me he will have the courage to confont a failed and fragile person consumed with the need to validate his worth not in his own eyes but through the the optics of others often whites...
No CF I harbor no ill will or malice towards you as a person I understand the range and depth of white racism the wounds that it has caused over centuries and how it has reached into or very personal lives and dreams we have for each other..No in the end I will have blessed you with your liberation and you will return the favor by blessing me.
This is how we design a nation within a nation...
@ LA:
"If I may point out, those were Europeans still in Europe indulging tales about the "savages" in the new world. What about the white Euros who enslaved Africans in America and Caribbean diaspora and were in daily close contact with the Africans? Did they see any tails?"
This is exactly what I pointed out when I wrote that this was just ONE more of the "founders" prevailing thoughts.(Where do you think they got this thought having never been to Africa? Please get the book, I promise you won't regret it)
The same enslavers of the "New" (only to them) world were the same enslavers of the Carribean. In actual fact, they had more slaves in the Carribean than in this "New" world, which became a problem for them because they were outnumbered...they became frightened and slavery in the Carribean eventually became a slavery that did not involve the use of the whip.
"What about the white Euro slave owner in America/Caribbean who was raping African females from the tender age of 8 years old? Surely he didn't see any tails."
I never said that the enslavers were intelligent enough to KNOW Africans were human...I said they BELIEVED they were not human (and you'll have to let this one go because I will go into one of the bodies of knowledge of which I received a degree-psychology :)
Which brings me to another thought...I read in the responses where someone (Thrasher I believe) said something to the effect of ..."I bet your wife is lightskinned."
As you so duly noted about the enslavers raping young AFrican girls...AND... as a lightskined woman...I resent that.
No matter how light my skin may be...to white people I am still black (Thank you Jesus! :)
I never had a racial identity problem because of my skin color...why is it that some blacks do???
DON'T HATE ME BECAUSE THE SLAVE OWNERS RAPED MY ANCESTORS!!!!
This has been my standard pact line for more than 30 years when I hear a negative comment about having lighter skin...when will I be able to let it go????
And for the whites (ok - just the ones that have good sense :) Pro black does not make me anti anything :)
Again thank you. Great discussion. This is my last word on the subject. I am ready to move on...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@agape,
If the skin fits than wear it... I am not upset about discussing the truth of colorism in our history of course you are not obligated to have that discussion nor am I obligated to be concerned about your choice of issues..
It is not about what the slave masters did it is what you do with what the slave master did to you..
Just becuase people treated you bad about your hue of your skin did you ever imagine why they were treated like shit because of the hue of thier skin no because to be that selfless requires more from you but hell that is to hard it is easy to attack me...
Go ahead unlike you I can handle being a dark negro with a negro dialect..lol,lol,lol
There is no wrong in confronting the politics of racism even when it is delivered by Black folks like Gates.
Gates bargain with the academic world to be a conduit to carry thier dogma of excuse and inferiority driven scholarship only fuels the intellectual beast in me to destroy such noble deeds of good negroes and coloreds like Gates
no thrasher, you are upset because you are a pathetic human vegetable.
"they became frightened and slavery in the Carribean eventually became a slavery that did not involve the use of the whip."
Agape, you mentioned this misconception before on a previous thread, and I then disagreed with you based on fact as well as logic. Too much to get into, but because of the outnumbering, don't you think only then it was more crucial for slave owners/overseers to implement more strategic brutality and fear tactics to keep large numbers of slaves in order? You think the Dutch and Scandinavians were any nicer? Even in the Carib, school children learn the dominated details of Black American slavery, but as a Black American, do you even know anything about the dynamics of Caribbean slavery? Maybe I too should find a book for you to read.
However. based on numbers, terrain and location, African slaves in the Carib did in fact have an advantage to overthrow the devils. But please stop conveying how you seem to think the actual slavery treatment wasn't as heinous for Caribbean slaves compared to American slaves unless you can provide hard proof. And I am not the type of person to "let anything go" unless I choose to. And keep in mind, you are not be the only one on this blog who may possess a Psychology degree or any other degree for that matter.
As for your "light skin" rant, I don't see how that fit in. Maybe you need to be more clear and take that up with Thrasher. But for the record, there are plenty dark skinned black people who have ancestors that were also raped, should they too be offended by me bringing up black females being raped by massa? in fact, some dark skinned black people have "very" white grandparents, but they are still dark skinned and so what. In fact, there have been African tribes that are historically light skinned, did you know that?
I don't understand your point, nor why you were offended. If you just wanted to mention that you are "light skinned" for whatever reason, then that shall be noted. I am neither light nor dark and still secured in my skin and blackness. But I have loved ones who fall under all the hue spectrum of blackness, and they too could care less. So what was your point? With all due respect.
(sorry for any typos I took my contacts out for early bed) Good night!
If the skin fits than wear it... I am not upset about discussing the truth of colorism in our history of course you are not obligated to have that discussion nor am I obligated to be concerned about your choice of issues..
It is not about what the slave masters did it is what you do with what the slave master did to you..
Just becuase people treated you bad about your hue of your skin did you ever imagine why they were treated like shit because of the hue of thier skin no because to be that selfless requires more from you but hell that is to hard it is easy to attack me...
Go ahead unlike you I can handle being a dark negro with a negro dialect..lol,lol,lol
You probably didn't realize it just then, but you fell headlong into the trap of Colorism.
Dark skinned Blacks railing against their lighter counterparts is just one of the many reasons why it is so hard for Blacks to truly come together as ONE. Because we're still side-eyeing the hell out of each other over petty bullshit such as skin hue.
Thrasher:
"The Wounds Of White Racism".
I had a planning call for our family reunion for this summer. Despite the ban in place by the NAACP - my family will go to South Carolina. Home of Confederate flags and my friend "Low & Country".
My brother proposed a "Black History bus tour" around Charleston.
I PROTESTED. I told him and others on the call that I am NOT going to visit "SLAVE QUARTERS". If they have some "Black Historical" sites where BLACK PEOPLE moved the ball forward in our own community - I am game. I am NOT going to embellish my children in the SHACKLES OF THEIR ANCESTORS. Shackles that they hoped that their progeny would jettison. WE PAY NO TRIBUTE TO OUR ANCESTORS BY ATTEMPTING TO RELATE TO THEIR BONDAGE.
I pay tribute to my ancestors in AFRICA by expressing SELF-DETERMINATION.
I am NOT investing in any more "Slave Museums". Not one DIME. If there is ever a "Future Black History Museum" built I will double down. This would be a museum that imagines how Black folks in 2110 will look back upon US and make inferences about our consciousness.
The reason for this, Thrasher is - during that same mentoring program that I told you about I noticed how some of my adult peer use Black history to explain to these housing project kids WHY they are where they are. The session the week prior to Obama being inaugurated I recall one older brother selling them upon this "accomplishment" based on the RACIST PAST in this nation. "White folks would never have voted for a Black man" he said.
As with the banquet that I attended on Saturday: "OBAMA'S ELECTION" was the "Mission Accomplished" banner dangling on "Air Craft Carrier USS Black America".
We choose to live vicariously through the First Family instead of noting that THEY are the titular heads of the MACHINE that controls EVERY SINGLE INSTITUTION IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY!!!! The political ACTIVISM to CORRECT THE BLACK COMMUNITY has morphed into a PARTY ACTIVISM to ELECT more Democrats - the results BE DAMNED.
One lady at my table noted: "I am left handed. Left handed people are intelligent. Barack Obama is left handed".
I am not a "hater" on these points about Obama, Thrasher. Instead I note how too many of us see ourselves IN SERVICE TO OBAMA. Wanting to make sure the first Black president is successful - EVEN IF the key measures of our PERMANENT INTERESTS don't move one bit.
* Safe Streets
* Quality Education
* Thriving Local Economy
* Healthy Lifestyle Outcomes
[quote]Why does Gates matter to you? What value does he add to your personhood? Obviously his findings are not a newsflash nor advance anything in any discipline So Please elaborate why does Gates matter to you??[/quote]
You have it all wrong dude. I don't focus upon Gates. Cornel West is a far greater item of FOCUS of mine. When I saw this Negro doing a conference call with Mumia "Killa Mu" Jamal in which he said "WE KNOW YOU DIDN'T DO IT BROTHER".......I saw the face of LEFTIST INJUSTICE and INDIFFERENCE.
I am merely amazed over the people who several months ago saw Gates as the epitome of "Regardless of if you have a doctorate degree....you are still a Nigger". NOW upon reading an article from him they don't like - he is dismissed as having bumped his head.
[quote]
WHy should I care about the musings of white liberals?[/quote]
Thrasher - the way the Black Progressive-Fundamentalist Establishment has things set up - THE WHITE LIBERAL and his approval is the CRITICAL PATH for the development of the Negro Community.
[quote]
You define a Black apologist since you question my application of the term.[/quote]
IN MY VIEW and placing it relevant to TO-DAMNED-DAY:
A Black Apologist is a person who sees a BLACK MAN that God made an EQUAL HUMAN BEING - doing something that causes injury to our community or society at large and they lump INFERIORITY UPON HIM.
He is in a DAMAGED STATE because of the cards that HISTORY dealt him, this despite the fact that he was born on July 3, 1991.
You see Thrasher THIS is the most damning APOLOGY that is rendered today.
Whereas the Christian can have his sins forgiven IF he believes that "Jesus Christ Is His Savior", for the Black Apologist - the Black man that murders another on May 1, 2010 will be forgiven as long as the LEGACY OF AFRICAN SLAVERY set off the series of events that MADE HIM DO IT.
This is not AFFIRMATIVE, HANDS ON HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT Thrasher.
You achieve DIRECTED OUTCOMES by ACTIVELY MANAGING the EQUAL HUMAN BEINGS who will benefit most from the change.
For some we are not even capable of bearing the BURDEN UPON OUR BACKS that will lead to our own salvation.
'Dark skinned Blacks railing against their lighter counterparts is just one of the many reasons why it is so hard for Blacks to truly come together as ONE."
It goes both ways, however I too agree overall.
Laaudio:
"In fact, some dark skinned black people have "very" white grandparents, but they are still dark skinned."
That is so true. You made me think about the history in my own family. My mother a very dark-skinned woman. One of my grandmothers was 16 when my white grandpappy brought her. She had two daughters by him, but she was not the only slave that had children by him. He fathered 14 or more by different slave women. To give you a glimpse of his character, he sent one of his sons to sleep with my granny and she had children by him too.
He couldn't really deny my grandmother or my uncles because they looked like him and even had his skin-color, but then it wasn't a secret about his dealings with his slave women. He was married more than once too and had children by his wives as well. A couple of his sons and daughters, well, I'll put it this way, you could tell they were all related.
They said that when he got old and after his wife died he would come visit my grandmother during the holidays to eat and bring one of his white sons with him and my grandfather would get up and leave. Was it that he was feeling his paternal instincts in his old age or was it he viewed her as the cook? Shady Grady you made a really good point when you said they get religious in their old age. In fact, that is a solid historical truth that they seem to overlook when telling the history of the antebellum days. But then, we don't really expect them to own up to the dehumanizing and degrading things that went on back then, do we?
Mack Lyons said...
Dark skinned Blacks railing against their lighter counterparts is just one of the many reasons why it is so hard for Blacks to truly come together as ONE. Because we're still side-eyeing the hell out of each other over petty bullshit such as skin hue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Actually, this is a Black woman thing as Field's blog continues to demonstrate. When was the last time an "Al B Sure" brotha from Field's blog had beef with a "Denzel" brotha?
Better yet, I'd love to see a "light skinned" poster railing against a dark skinned sista' here. Just doesn't happen, that "hate" is a one way street from what I've seen around here.
Better yet, I'd love to see a "light skinned" poster railing against a dark skinned sista' here. Just doesn't happen, that "hate" is a one way street from what I've seen around here.
________________________________________________
You stupid bitch, it's not that you're not liked because of your skin color, people don't like you because you're a trouble making imbecile. I'm so glad the average sistah ain't a poser numskull like you.
I'm gonna say this and then I'm gone.
When Pharaoh set the people of Israel free, even the Egyptians had sense enough to give them something and didn't send them away empty handed. When the slaves were set free in America, they weren't given anything, they were set them free with no food, not so much as a crumb of bread, or even a change of clothes.
Another sly way of keeping them to work their lands under the pretense of sharechopping to be cheated out of wages dues them with unscrupulous bills that maintain and kept them in debt and more bondage with the owners.
Weren't the Japanese people were given reparations to repay them for properties and businesses they owned and lost, the degrading, and humiliating experience they suffered?
Why no reparations for "Black Wall Street", Wilmington, and other places that were thriving black owned places? Blacks suffered degradation, humiliation, lost of their family members sold off in slavery, lynchings, burnings, lost of property, etc. Why no reparations for them?
@ LA:
The so called "rant" was not a "rant". It was, in actual fact, a very telling story of a woman that for more than 30 years had had to hear judgemental comments from people of all persuasions, colors, nationalities etc on the color of MY skin.
How did I get this color...from the ancestral rapes you spoke of. I DO know my family genealogy. I also have a rainbow of shades in my family...I only spoke of mine.
It is ludacris of you to think that you are responding to someone that has no knowledge of who she is or where she comes from...that can be based on this one discussion alone.
I mentioned one of my several degrees I have in passing...a passing comment that normally "normal" people pass right by.
I take it very personally when someone who is supposed to be "enlightened" is in fact still in the dark and trying to tellme there is light where they are.
If you cannot understand the offense...it is probably due to the fact that you either did not see it as an offense...and you therefore co-signed on the offense...or you are not a black woman and have never been offended about her color...no matter what that color may be.
In the December 2006 issue of Essence magazine, Kanye West sounds off on video girls and “race mixing”.
“If it wasn’t for race mixing there’d be no video girls. Me and most of our friends like mutts a lot. Yeah, in the hood they call ‘em mutts”.
Not cool to me...how does it sound to you? And though I do not consider myself "mixed"...I do confuse people with respect to my heritage.
YOU brought up the subject of
rape by the enslavers...not me...I merely expounded on the affects/
effects of what it brings to today's society in a very personal way.
I don't have to shout out my skin color on the www as a badge of honor... I wear it proudly...as you, hopefully, do yours.
It's time to die to Willie Lynch
mentalty...maybe THAT is something you may be able to understand since you did not seem to earlier, according to your response to me.
Further, if you have any proof to refute what I stated about enslavement in the Carribean please do so. I gave you a very good reference BOOK. Until you come up with a reference of your own...I will continue to rely on mine.
I view you differently now...I note some bitterness in your tone...which I have not given you.
While I am not the type of woman that needs to let the www know what I look like...I will put it out there just for YOU...and maybe one day soon post a picture if/when I have time...
I am 5'6' and weigh appox. 170 lbs. Yes, I am a curvy girl :) I DO have light skin and long hair (my choice rigt now). I am highly educated and sought after by many suitors...some of whom want that "lightskin-ded wit da long herr" as in the rap songs...however I am not my hair...:)
Now if this causes you any upset...you have internalized me in a way that I have not you...if my addressing one of your comments personally offends you..you have internalized me in a way that I have not done with you...if my mentioning my skin color bothers or offends you...you have internalized way more than just me....you have just been checked.
Be well, Be blessed and try to be a blessing to others.
Peace.
~agape2010~
You stupid bitch, it's not that you're not liked because of your skin color, people don't like you because you're a trouble making imbecile. I'm so glad the average sistah ain't a poser numskull like you.
Wanna know how people can tell you're a coward?
Easy. Just use the cover of ANONYMOUS to call someone a "stupid bitch".
Man (or woman) the fuck up and put a name to the post. Otherwise this comment will remain as a testiment to your bitchassedness.
@ Thrasher:
I do not disagree with anything you wrote...and I am definitly not afraid to discuss colorism within our own society...
I understand the context in which you responded to CF and that is a personal thing between you two...and I really do get why you said it...but I still don't have to like it...;)
But don't get it twisted...while others my have an issue with my color or use it to "get at" somebody...I do not internalize this type of behavior...so it bothers me not.
Those that have a colorism issue...are best left alone by me. I do not stoop to ignorance when it comes to what divides us...and when it comes to color...Willie Lynch is alive and well with some...but he does not reside with me.
I know that I have certain advantages based on my color and looks (I aint braggin' but I anit ugly :)
I use that for the benefit of me and those that I serve...most of whom are poor and much darker than me.
I get that this society is "looks" oriented...and those that have lighter skin tones are looked upon more favorably. I don't let it get in my head...why...?
If I were to ask the white man what color I was...he would tell me the color "nigger".
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape you sound pretty to me;) Nice to see someone be comfortable in their own skin. Screw all these people who try to put their colorist issues onto you.
I cannot comment regarding your conversation with LA, but more or less comment on the fact that I can identify with what you've said in terms of how people perceive you and so forth.
All of this colorist stuff is simply a wedge to divide us anyway and it is so sad that this shit gets rehashed almost every blog post.
Just goes to show some of us are still very sick indeed...
@ Thrasher:
People do not TREAT me badly..that's not something I allow...:)
I may look like a HN...but my beahvior is of the FN sort...:)
And...
"Go ahead unlike you I can handle being a dark negro with a negro dialect..lol,lol,lol"
You don't know what I can handle..but I would bet money I could handle YOU...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ MR:
As the saying goes..."My haters are my motivaters."
Sadly, when we discuss color within our own society that the feedback is not appreciation on all sides.
I am comfortable in my own skin, as you noted. If it bothers others or makes others excitedly happy is not my concern...:)
*This was brought to you by a LIGHT SKIN GIRLS moment*
Now who's mad...? who cares...? lol
Peace.
~agape2010~
@agape2010,
Wow great series of post..I am not angry , mad, upset with any body on this site even CF, grannie and hathor I have no anger towards.
I bring all of me to anything I do of course with the nature and degree of passion I have for all life in particular Black life I know I rub people wrong but it is the wieght I must endured being who I am.
BTW whatever hue you come in I am sure it has the glow of a beautiful soul that is the color your posts emit...
Peace & Love
@ Thrasher:
I can tell when you purposely rub people the wrong way...and sometimes I LMAO when you do...:)
It's wonderful to not only have a passion for our people... and to serve a purpose with the passion is one of the spices of life...
CF is passionate as well...just differently...;)
Peace.
~agape2010~
This is just a general comment and not directed at or about anyone in particular.
My thing is not the color issue even though I experienced some very negative things about that when growing up. Somehow, I was able to let all that go and move beyond that. In the larger scheme of issues that black folks face, this is really a non-issue or at least it should be.
How does anyone know how someone looks here unless they post a picture and even if they do, how do you know that's actually them? It just seems to me that even getting into this starts a battle over nothing and any "victory" from such battle can only be pyrrhic, so why engage in it?
This is one reason why I'm careful about the direction of my conversation generally, not just in the blogosphere, but outside as well. There are some directions that are simply a no win proposition and once you go down that road everyone is going to be pissed about basically nothing.
I guess I'm at the point where I'm not looking to needlessly strive with anyone over something that means little and if someone wants to win "little", I'm more than willing to let them think they won something.
Ironically, this is how black folks get "gamed" all the time. Someone sets up a fight or issue, we go at it and think we've wrung out a victory while not winning a damn thing.
Peace
Greg
@ Greg:
"This is just a general comment and not directed at or about anyone in particular."
Yeah right...nice try...lol
But this:
"I guess I'm at the point where I'm not looking to needlessly strive.."
Me either bro' and for the record...no one "gamed" me. I wrote what was in my heart...and yet...it can all be just a passing comment...
I will say this...there was no name calling as in most of the train wrecks I have read on here...so maybe a new plateau of discussion was reached...until the next train wreck...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape, I'm trying to understand and work with you here, bear with me. It seems to me that you feel I didn't see how I "offended" you because of a previous dialogue we had regarding Africans and tails. And because I challenged how slave owners may have well known Africans were NOT animals, you brought up one of the "prevailing thoughts" and that Euros on the European continent believed that Africans may have had tails (in which I believe many did believe) but then I responded with the statement below...
La♥audiobooks said... If I may point out, those were Europeans still in Europe indulging tales about the "savages" in the new world. What about the white Euros who enslaved Africans in America and Caribbean diaspora and were in daily close contact with the Africans? Did they see any tails?
What about the white Euro slave owner in America/Caribbean who was raping African females from the tender age of 8 years old? Surely he didn't see any tails. What about his Euro wife who had African female slaves cook, clean and breast feed her white baby? Then ordered those very black breast to be sliced off in a jealous rage to spite her white husband for dare lusting over them. Surely she didn't see any tails. "
Agape, then in a proceeding comment, you stated below....
Agape said "Which brings me to another thought...I read in the responses where someone (Thrasher I believe) said something to the effect of ..."I bet your wife is lightskinned."
As you so duly noted about the enslavers raping young AFrican girls...AND... as a lightskined woman...I resent that."
Now Agape, I then replied to your little rant in another comment trying to figure out how you being "light skinned" had to do with you being offended about my comment on poor little black female slaves being raped by massa.. (I mentioned their rape in attempt to highlight how slave owners could not hypocritically consider these females apart of the animal kingdom while sexually abusing them, and thus clearly not seeing any "tails".) Did you not interpret it in that way? Oh well.
Agape, you then said to me...."The so called "rant" was not a "rant". It was, in actual fact, a very telling story of a woman that for more than 30 years had had to hear judgemental comments from people of all persuasions, colors, nationalities etc on the color of MY skin.
How did I get this color...from the ancestral rapes you spoke of. I DO know my family genealogy. I also have a rainbow of shades in my family...I only spoke of mine."
Agape, there is clearly a miscommunication, and you have the audacity to claim I am the one internalizing? Apart from Thrasher's "light skinned" comment to CF, you were the one who brought up skin complexion in our dialogue and took up complaint with me based on my comment on slave rape and tails which had no reference to complexion whatsoever. Lady, either you gone bazodee in the head, or you're trying to back peddle, and now pushing your reverse psychology on the wrong chic.
Then you were the one who told me to "let this one go" because you had a psychology degree, in which I presume was in reference to beholding such knowledge in the pathologies of the Euro/Amer. enslavers. Then because I called you out on your arrogance, you had the audacity again to throw in that reverse projection psycho-babble onto me.
And I know you are waiting on me to comment on the description tidbit you divulged about yourself. Lady who are you playing with? You and I both know why you described yourself in such manner, and why you would assume it would bother other black females inclined. I'm glad you brought it up, it further shows how a black female of your self proclaim description can easily become smug and self-admit having a particular desirability in this global environment which openly discriminates and cause pain to so many black women who do not fit that prototype.. This is why you should not be taken seriously when you whine and complain erroneously about your oh so unfair position in the colorism totem pole.
It's a shame you and I have come to this, because I have always respected you. But of course, I am not affected that by how you may feel about me either. I am not into the popularity contest. I'm always an upfront person and I prefer honesty, I don't appreciate duplicitousness nor mental games.
”I gave you a very good reference BOOK. Until you come up with a reference of your own...I will continue to rely on mine.”
Woman, I've grown up reading books about YOU, it's time you expand your “knowledge” and read about others in the Carib diaspora. I too wish you blessings and hope that you too are trying to be a blessing to others.
[quote]When Pharaoh set the people of Israel free, even the Egyptians had sense enough to give them something and didn't send them away empty handed. When the slaves were set free in America, they weren't given anything, they were set them free with no food, not so much as a crumb of bread, or even a change of clothes.[/quote]
HEY GRANNY!!!!!!
When the Jews spent 40 years in the wilderness post SLAVERY.........DO YOU THINK that on the 41'st year it was a BADGE OF HONOR among their ranks for an individual to be able to articulate how their ENSLAVEMENT damaged them?
INSTEAD the 40 years was enough to have nearly 2 generations of NEWBORNS born into the hands of FREE PEOPLE and later being inculcated into the ways of FREEDOM THINKING and a FREEDOM CULTURE.
Sadly today too many of us derive our "Street Cred" by metaphorically giving our selves LASHES upon our own backs so that we can be made to empathize with our ancestors who were in bondage.
I AM working to empathize with my ancestors prior to them who were FREE and thus had the responsibility for GOVERNANCE of the human resources around them.
[quote]How does anyone know how someone looks here unless they post a picture and even if they do, how do you know that's actually them? It just seems to me that even getting into this starts a battle over nothing and any "victory" from such battle can only be pyrrhic, so why engage in it?[/quote]
Brother Greg L:
In the ABSENCE of a TRANSPARENT FRAMEWORK by which all of us who CLAIM to be working to advance the concerns of our community the blood sport of DEGRADATION of one's adversary is the key weapon. With this arbitrary tool also appears the "Neo-All White Jury" effect. Those who SEE the tactics of their ideological allies are predisposed to remain SILENT. In using the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" theory they allow their own integrity to be compromised yet CLAIM that "they have no blood on their hands" for THEY DID NOT ATTACK.
Skin tone is merely yet another vector for attack within the Black community. We tend to break down those who disagree with us. POWER and felling superior by stepping on others is the root of the problem. This takes the place of absolute increase in altitude.
It is far better to get people to PROVE their correctness by setting up above board means of measuring it.
agape said:
Those that have a colorism issue...are best left alone by me. I do not stoop to ignorance when it comes to what divides us...and when it comes to color...Willie Lynch is alive and well with some...but he does not reside with me.
I know that I have certain advantages based on my color and looks (I aint braggin' but I anit ugly :)
I use that for the benefit of me and those that I serve...most of whom are poor and much darker than me.
I get that this society is "looks" oriented...and those that have lighter skin tones are looked upon more favorably. I don't let it get in my head...why...?
If I were to ask the white man what color I was...he would tell me the color "nigger".
really? because all whites are racists, and use that term?
how progressive of you.
and this other stuff--you are surely bragging about being light skinned and using it to help your poorer, darker brethren--then claim to be disavowing colorism?
are you truly that self-unaware?!!
labooks is 100% correct.
GREAT post Agape @ 10:27PM
Mack Lyons said...
Easy. Just use the cover of ANONYMOUS to call someone a "stupid bitch".
>>>>>>>>>>
I'd really LOVE to see Field "out" one of these punk ass, sorry motherf*ckers by checking and posting the IP addy. That said, Imma put my money on either the Wiki "scientist"/fake journalist or Lacks as the original poster, thus bitchassness IS the order of the day, LOL!!!!
fake journalist? sure.
i don't post as anon, i'm not lying about my creds as do you. tho i see you finally dropped the Dr. smart.
"I am comfortable in my own skin, as you noted. If it bothers others or makes others excitedly happy is not my concern...:)"
It didn't seem that way when you got all thin skinned over that comment Thrasher made.
1. MMM the IP is an old conversation. People block them, change them, skew them etc. If someone does not want to be "found" FN will not find them.
2. Maria, what the fuck are you talking about. Shut up breadstick. YOu are harder to follow than a maggot in dead meat.
3. Carry on ladies, many of us dudes love it when the bitches fight... (sorry, I use the word bitches and hos cause it's in the music I listen to).
Mellaneous said... "...here are still groups that are organized around the idea of reparations that are still somewhat active. N'COBRA comes to mind. Of course in this economy they ain't gettin no play."
This economy seems to me to be an excellent time for reparations. It is a fine example of stimulus to an entirely different section of the citizens. It would also make some citizens prouder of their country if that country met its obligations.
I don't know how anyone else would do reparations, but as a rough cut I would take an average value of forty acres and a mule in the United States at the time of the Emancipation. Turn over to some nice accountant and have them work out the present value of that reparation. Whom to give it to? Some African-American Descendants of Slaves, AADOS people are working on their genealogy now. Make it a federal program to hire history and black studies graduates to trace the AADOS to the present day. DNA testing is proving valuable to people who want to trace their ancestry clear back to the tribes, peoples and empires of Africa. Any line that has since died out makes the pieces for the rest bigger. Each person that is still alive gets an equal portion from their line according to the usual laws of inheritance. Kenyan, Haitian, Jamaicans etc need not apply; this is for Descendants of Slaves.
It could be done. And you can't do it any sooner than now and now could be a really good time for everyone. Stimulus is good!
(No, I don't do drugs, I am quite naturally this goofy.)
I guess there no need to wait for his so called racial profile movie.He touted he wanted to do after po po hauled his so called black behind to jail for a min and half
@ maria:
I did not conclude that ALL whites are racist...and if you had read the ENTIRE conversation you would have read that.
"Because I am Pro-Black does not make me anti anything."
And....
Where did you get the idea that I was progressive. The only statement I made to you is that I am an independent thinker...YOU took that to mean politically...I simply never corrected you.
I don't do group think...as MOST whites adhere to...
And...
Yes. Just look at the news, read the newspapers and go on the internet...there is serious white backlash happening in this country (or do you write about that??)
I fully EXPECT that if I ask a white MAN what color I am he will tell me the color "nigger."
That's what keeps me in the fields...Or the trenches...helping those blacks that I was talking about...while you only write and comment on them.
Maria you will NEVER fully come to know what it means to have black skin...
you are on the outside looking
in...peeering....questioning...
trying to figure it out...and it still eludes you.
And...
When YOU become a black woman then you too can discuss the issue of colorism in the the black community...until then...take notes.
And...
If I wanna shout out MY skin color how does that directly effect you??
As someone told you in another post:
Maria, go sit down somewhere...grown folks talkin'...:)
You too have just been checked...:)
Peace.
~agape2010~
i was agreeing with labooks.
YOU have been checked! and not just by me!
because i'm not black doesn't mean i can't read. there is nothing that i don't get.
i get it--you are blind to your own comments.
I thought it was so weird when years ago, I watched a PBS program where Prof. Gates went on a trip to Africa looking for his roots and the black folks who sold slaves and couldn't find ONE black man or woman!
"because i'm not black doesn't mean i can't read."
Reading is one aspect of learning...comprehending is another...:)
"there is nothing that i don't get."
Clearly there is MUCH you don't get...
Peace.
~agape2010~
you're missing the point--look in the mirror. you have a lot of problems!
i'm NOT the only one who was appalled by your hypocrisy, lack of self-awareness, condescending and patronizing comments.
you can't take back what you said or defend what you said. it was pretty awful.
why pick on me? because i'm white? easy prey? everyone else said the SAME THING. you're a braggart and a colorist and every-time you sign off with "peace" it makes me gag.
In this previous thread, we discussed a lot about colorism Ad nauseam. The light skinned victimhood was debunked a long long long time ago.
http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2010/04/who-decides-who-makes-you-happy.html
"I know that I have certain advantages based on my color and looks (I aint braggin' but I anit ugly :)"
Agreed, in this sexist/colorist global society, it shouldn't take "reading comprehension" for any female to recognize when, or what type attributes she's benefitting from, and why. Fair or not.
I have also reaped the benefits of colorism/sexism in the black Caribbean community I live in, especially when I'm presumed to be "caramel skin laang hair gyal" Dominicana. I surely didn't feel like I was the "victim" of colorism, sexism maybe, but not colorism. And of course I have felt/seen the color driven wrath of darker skinned black women, as well the wrath from lighter skinned black women. But at a young age, I was able to understand the true dynamics that caused this. I also recognized which group still had the upper hand regardless. There might be individual exceptions, but I'm referring to the collective.
Maria, like you once said similarly, there is nothing that you nor I can do to change this on a grand scale, obviously. Yet I think both you and I were "woman" enough to at least admit there are privileges we may have over very darker skinned women. That's a start.
And I sure wish we could take those "checks" to a bank where it really counts. :)
Why o why can't we still burn people at the stake?
This guy would be a perfect candidate.
La-Audiobooks,
Isn't it funny the parallels between racism and colorism. What you just showed to whoever it is you are addressing is how many benefitting Black folk fight against acknowledging the privilage they enjoy over others.
I think at this point in time focus should get away from racism and and shift to colorism. But guess what, the most privilaged Blacks are lighter skinned. Are they willing to give up all those benefits?
Let's see, how long has it taken white people....Hmmm, there is no hope there.
Interesting to read about all these "privileges" my light skin has given me. Just when I was starting to think it was my hard work, numerous college degrees from top schools, and intelligence. All along, it was my light skin!! Jumpin Johosephat!!!
Well shit, I guess my job as a parent to a "lightskinned" girl just got easy, thank guys!!I think I'll just tell her to not worry about maintaing her straight "A" average going into high school(which she was ONLY given because she is lightskinned), to forgo enginering camp this summer, and just chill out on her lightskinned/longhairness for the rest her lightskinned life!!!!
Stupid!!
Not much critical thinking going on in FN's and the predictably hambone responses.
Y'all are so jealous of Gates it's causing you to make up anything to support your backward, preconceived notions.
Hats off to whomever about the brief history of the Ottoman Empire but you are wasting your time with these negroes who don't care much for facts. These negroes think an ottoman empire is a furniture store.
Thrasher is still a horse's ass. How is s/he able to walk around while holding up that big ass moon head? You are so insecure it makes you say retarded shit that has no meaning. You wish you were the talented tenth. Go eat your black food and STFU.
PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT HISTORY THEY JUST TALK SHIT PRESENT THEM WITH FACTS AND THEY STILL WONT ACCEPT THE TRUTH NIGGAS IS FULL OF SHIT
AND AB THRASHER IS AN ASSHOLE
Wait a minute.... light skin black girl gets upset cause she thinks her light skin means that only her great grandmas was raped by whitey and not mine cause I aint light like her? That stupid heifa....she just pretending, she was looking excuses to tell everyone what she looked like, I know her type. lol
Hey Grata, took you long enough :)
"I think at this point in time focus should get away from racism and and shift to colorism. But guess what, the most privilaged Blacks are lighter skinned. Are they willing to give up all those benefits?"
Exactly. Just like the sexism between black men and black women, the colorism hypocrisy is even thicker. And I too know that will never happen.
btw,
Why would Agape get so annoyed and internalize Thrasher's comment in the first place? Her annoyance had nothing to do with ancestral rape, I think that was a misdirected excuse.
I think his comment mockingly highlighted that well known superficialness and fraudulence behind their "light skinned" desirability, as well as it highlighted that "light skinned" advantage they have in the dating pool - the one they hate to admit. I think those were the underlining reasons she may have took offense in the fist place.
@La:
I do not "get" what it is you are disagreeing with me when you just stated to maria this:
ME: "I know that I have certain advantages based on my color and looks (I aint braggin' but I anit ugly :)"
YOU: "Agreed,in this sexist/colorist global society, it shouldn't take "reading comprehension" for any female to recognize when, or what type attributes she's benefitting from, and why. Fair or not."
Whether you like it or not...you AGREED. WE DO live in a sexist/colorist society...it is what it is...FAIR OR NOT.
Many tmes have I listened to dark skinned women complaining about their dark skin and the disadvantages it brings...IT WORKS BOTH WAYS...
And...
YOU: "Why would Agape get so annoyed and internalize Thrasher's comment in the first place? Her annoyance had nothing to do with ancestral rape, I think that was a misdirected excuse."
Excuse for what exactly? Do you honestly believe that my ancestors began with light skin...? Exactly how do you think this LIGHT SKIN came to be? Yes, maybe there was some love on both sides...but that was few and far between...there was more RAPE than love...trust.
And...
While you might want to think that I am shouting when I highlight a word I do it for emphasis...not anger (just a note for you)...I certainly cannot be upset with Thrasher based on what he said to someone else...FED UP is more like it...
Why? Let me break it down...Thrasher was (in his/her own way) belittling CF...in the process of that Trasher used the term "LIGHT SKINNED" woman to do so...as if a light skin woman was the butt of the joke...why didn't he say a dark skinned woman...not as funny maybe?
I gave you another example of this with the Kanye West statement. So what don't you "get"? That I am complaining becasue I am a LIGHT SKINNED woman that society offers certain advantages? It is what it is...I don't trip off that because as I stated...
"If I ask the white man what color I am he ill say the color NIGGER."
Now do you "get" it?
I think you took issue with me beacuse of something else...the conversation went fine until I made the statement about MY LIGHT SKIN...
It was a parallel to the issue you brought up of ancestral rape. Yes. I do get upset thinking about ancestral rape.
And...
I am not so clueless as to not know that ancestral rape happened to the great majority of African slave women...they started out a deep pretty black...and came up with a white baby, or a carmel baby, or a LIGHT SKINNED baby...
So you got more color and I got less...that is what makes black people really beautiful...we have ALL shades...how did you not "get" that when you agreed with me???
This conversation could have been on a level of understanding, empathy and compassion for ALL of the sisters of this site...but it turned because of...?...you tell me because I have NEVER had a www dialog this idiotic with anyone...EVER.
Still Peace.
~agape2010~
All you dark skinned negroes need to be on anti-psychotics. For you, the sun rises and falls on your insufferable victimization due to dark skin. The problem isn't your skin, it's the big fat chip on your shoulder supported by crippling insecurity. Reparations aren't going to change your pitiful low esteem. You are always the victim of something. This blog if nothing else highlights just how truly sick a segment of the black population is. Get off your knees and start dealing with issues that actually affect real people's lives. Take your brown paper bag test and shove it, you whiny useless people.
You are an embarrassment to all the black people who fought and died for black civil rights and what you think is your right to whine endlessly about your color and how awful it is to be dark. Grow up.
@ maria:
Let me just put this out there...
When I came to this site YOU were the FIRST one to start contention with me... and I left you alone...except for one time...I tried to make ammends with you when someone said something nasty to you...
And...
When you did not have the courtesy to give even a simple response I left you alone again...
Now let me put this out there...YOU always mention YOUR skin color...I never would have known you were white...until you stated it... again... and again...
You remind me of all the white girls I went to school with...relying on their TANNED white skin and boobs so they could be the one the boys like...
And...
In all hoestly...I think you are a bit dull and ill informed...I think you ride on any wagon that looks like it might go around the block...I think you're writing skills are limited...My first degree was in Journalism...and at the age of 12 I was writing better than you do now...I find it very hard to believe you write for a living...I find it so hard to believe that I see you as a wanna be writer....
And...
I think you are a wanna be in other areas as well...you wanna be smart...you wanna be in the mix...you wanna beleive the lie you tell yourself that you LOVE BLACK PEOPLE...you wannna be the smartest in the room and cannot...you wanna be A LIGHT SKINNED BLACK WOMAN...you wanna be the lone white women on this site...you probably wanna be F'in a black man from this site...
I am working on my own personal biases...one of which is people like YOU...
maria...I love you..I have to because I really am a Christian...
HOWEVER, I do not have to like you...that's not part of the deal...
And...
Since I do not like you...I will reverse the mistake I made with you...and ONCE AGAIN...leave you alone...
And...
For the record...there is NO WAY I WOULD EVER allow a white girl to co-sign on any conversation I would have with a black woman that has to do with color....I am simply not there yet...further, I really am a FIELD NEGRO...and I intend to stay in the field...do yourself a favor...do not try to figure that one out...ask your black friends...
And...
You are trash to me...I have just thrown you out.
Still PEACE.
~agape2010~
@Grata:
The peron you are referring to is me...agape2010.
However, You must have missed something as did your friend LA audio.
FYI:
YOU: "What you just showed to whoever it is you are addressing is how many benefitting Black folk fight against acknowledging the privilage they enjoy over others."
This is not true...I addressed the issue...
FYI:
ME (agape2010):"I know that I have certain advantages based on my color and looks (I aint braggin' but I anit ugly :)"
HER (LAaudiobooks):"Agreed, in this sexist/colorist global society, it shouldn't take "reading comprehension" for any female to recognize when, or what type attributes she's benefitting from, and why. Fair or not."
Hope that clears up any misunderstanding you had in ths obviously heated, contentious and poorly misguided "dialog".
Peace.
~agape2010~
@ LA:
YOU:"I have also reaped the benefits of colorism/sexism in the black Caribbean community I live in, especially when I'm presumed to be "caramel skin laang hair gyal" Dominicana. I surely didn't feel like I was the "victim" of colorism, sexism maybe, but not colorism. And of course I have felt/seen the color driven wrath of darker skinned black women, as well the wrath from lighter skinned black women. But at a young age, I was able to understand the true dynamics that caused this. I also recognized which group still had the upper hand regardless. There might be individual exceptions, but I'm referring to the collective"
This is what you should have stated to ME... and the real dialog would have been fabulous...instead you focused on the fact that I stated what I go through on a personal level about MY skin color...how does what you say and what I say differ...?...with the exception of the actual color???
However, I don't "get" your line of thinking and it's obvious you don't "get" mine...
If you "reap benefits" how can you be the "victim" at the same time No person benefitting will ever feel like a victim...so...????
And if you're saying that you "reap benefits" from your carmel color...how is that NOT COLORISM..????
Maybe you can figure out how the conversation turned so sour now...I know I can...Stevie Wonder can see this mess.
And...
I'm done with it...if you want to continue in negativity...that's your right.
Still Peace.
~agape2010~
If it's not too late to get back to African slavers, there's a well-known fact whose implications are not followed thru. European slave traders were also arms traders. They paid for slaves with guns. So an African King, chief or even bandit who sold slaves would become much better armed than those who didn't and could conquer them to build his own empire. The reason all West African rulers were complicit in the slave trade was that those who wouldn't play had been shot by those who would.
Obvious really. And that's how the West operates in Africa and Asia today - rulers who give them what they want get arms, those who won't get overthrown.
Whether you like it or not...you AGREED. WE DO live in a sexist/colorist society...it is what it is...FAIR OR NOT."
Agape, that was my error, Maria doesn't seem to use quotations and it can get a bit confusing. I couldn't believe my eyes when I thought she said that, I was too hasty. But it doesn't change the fact that you still got defensive over Thrasher's comment for that very reason, then somehow misdirected it towards me for another reason, imo.
instead you focused on the fact that I stated what I go through on a personal level about MY skin color...how does what you say and what I say differ...?...with the exception of the actual color???
"
In said paragraph I was eluding to "light skin" still having the upper hand, but you were expressing the entire "hue" dialogue from your own personal experiences, NOT from the collective, imo. If you were, you would not have taken offense nor be so defensive over your own light skin victimization, which is NOT experienced by your collective.
"Many tmes have I listened to dark skinned women complaining about their dark skin and the disadvantages it brings...IT WORKS BOTH WAYS..."
Please give some examples of your disadvantages, please? This is where Grata and myself parallel your claims of "light skin" victimhood to the ones of white people and their white denial arguments. Still lost? I expressed this also on the link I provided at 11:49 am - if you so care.
"And if you're saying that you "reap benefits" from your carmel color...how is that NOT COLORISM..????"
It sure is, and that's why I am NOT the victim of it - exactly because of that. Therefore it's insulting to negate the grandeur collective pain of darker skinned women/people just to mollify your inner conscience about that unfairness. Do you get it?
"However, I don't "get" your line of thinking and it's obvious you don't "get" mine..."
Well that is something we might be able to fully agree upon.
Thrasher was (in his/her own way) belittling CF...in the process of that Trasher used the term "LIGHT SKINNED" woman to do so...as if a light skin woman was the butt of the joke...why didn't he say a dark skinned woman...not as funny maybe? "
Thrasher was probably trying to assign that black hypocrisy to a black person (in this case to CF, being a black male) who may claim they so care about black people/black race, yet they turn around and worship people with white or light flesh (and to possibly "elevate" themselves through having a light/white mate).. I doubt Thrasher was trying to make a butt on the expense of light skinned black women, LOL, he probably lust after them himself. But of course I am not in Thrasher's head, I'm just speculating.
"I think you took issue with me beacuse of something else...the conversation went fine until I made the statement about MY LIGHT SKIN..."
This sounds like a deflection, or some reverse projection tactic you're tying to pull on me :)
I actually lost patience when you again commented about the Amer. vs. Carib slave treatments. As well as attacking me on my mention of ancestral rape (which I made as a strike against enslavers), but somehow you intertwined Thrasher's comment, took up offense with me, and brought in your complexion as the basis. I still find that peculiar. Am I hot or cold?
"Exactly how do you think this LIGHT SKIN came to be? Yes, maybe there was some love on both sides...but that was few and far between...there was more RAPE than love...trust."
You don't have to tell me that, you are singing to the choir. I've argued with people online who have claimed that many black female slaves were consenting. That would be inaccurate and highly insulting. But you and I well know that's not what this entire thing was about.
Also Agape, it seems you are solely concentrating on our ancestral rape as the main reason why you are so light skinned. If this is primarily your case, clearly it is not just ancestral rape why you are still so light skinned throughout these generations (even considering how color genetics can be unpredictable and vary among blacks). Based on your photo, it would appear that your prevailing family lineage may have purposely kept within the scope of light and lighter skinned partners.
This is another form of generational colorism and anti-black discrimination that a lot of black people don't want to talk about nor admit. Maybe you shouldn't just blame your hue on the ancestral rape of our poor female ancestors, many dark skinned black people fall under that category as well - it's not just you. Instead you need to acknowledge the possible colorism driven preferences in your more recent family history. Something else to also consider.
Furthermore, I am not in the business of throwing "negativity" towards you after this point. I have nothing against you, in a future thread I might throw a "kudo" or try to converse with you in a positive way, and it is up to you to engage or ignore to your desired temperament. That is your right.
"I have NEVER had a www dialog this idiotic with anyone...EVER."
Well I have on this blog unfortunately, but I am going to leave that alone and not call any names....
Speaking of such... Btw MMM/flyin40's, I have seen your mug, and you're not that much "light skinned" as you may think you are - even considered in the US. I know how important "light skin" is to you, and your need to hurl "dark skin" labels to people you dislike and don't even know. But you've barely made it pass the brown paper bag test, just a shade shy of having dome, LOL. I would warn you to never relocate, nor visit any parts near the equator. You might end up turning on yourself.
(Please no BET type vulgarity, academic references, sexual connotations, adult toys, or male genitalia comebacks - Thank you)
Field,
You know that I loooooove your blog, BUT why give Gates any more publicity? He does not deserve our attention or support. Any black man who feels the need to go out of his way to prove that he is not black is really not worth our time or support. I lost respect for Gates a long time ago, when he reported that his dna strand was not black. He is a fool and "what a fool believes he sees no wise man has the power to reason away". I think, we shouldn't bother to acknowledge the existence of people like Gates. He's not black (but he sure looks it) so why do I care. I felt the same way with black opportunists like Tiger Woods. They're not black until they get into trouble with the law, right? Then they depend on the black community for support. Gates is just another lost house negro who depends on his doctoral degree and white wife to be his passport out of blackness - ah, but no such luck because as well all know in America it matters not how much money you have, what kind of car you drive, the white person you marry, or how many degrees you have, if you are not white then you are black (didn't they just pass a nasty little law in AZ regarding our brown brothas and sisters, making it legal for police profiling?)
I notice that, why won't Maria use proper quotation marks when she's trying to quote other people. I always tell her but she never listens, what a fool.
@ LA:
I am not shouting...I bolded all my answers to you so that it would seem more like a conversation than a back and forth thing...
Whether you like it or not...you AGREED. WE DO live in a sexist/colorist society...it is what it is...FAIR OR NOT."
Agape, that was my error, Maria doesn't seem to use quotations and it can get a bit confusing. I couldn't believe my eyes when I thought she said that, I was too hasty. (NO PROBLEM) But it doesn't change the fact that you still got defensive over Thrasher's comment for that very reason, then somehow misdirected it towards me for another reason, imo. DEFENSIVE MAYBE…MISDIRECTED…NO. I ACTUALLY THOGHT I WAS HAVING A SISTAH TO SISTAH MOMENT BY SHARING SOME PERSONAL INFO WITH YOU.
instead you focused on the fact that I stated what I go through on a personal level about MY skin color...how does what you say and what I say differ...?...with the exception of the actual color???"
In said paragraph I was eluding to "light skin" still having the upper hand, but you were expressing the entire "hue" dialogue from your own personal experiences, NOT from the collective, imo. If you were, you would not have taken offense nor be so defensive over your own light skin victimization, which is NOT experienced by your collective. I WILL BE THE FIRST IN LINE TO SHOUT THAT LIGHT SKIN HAS IT’S PRIVELAGES WITH WOMEN…BUT ESPECIALLY MEN BEFORE THE AGE OF FORTY. DARK SKINNED MEN CATCH HELL. I SAW IT CLEARLY WITH MY SON. THE VICTIMIZATION THAT LIGHT SKIN WOMEN GO THROUGH ARE THESE: 1) OBJECTIFICATION BY BLACK AND WHITE MEN 2) DISTAIN FROM WHITE WOMEN (IGUESS WE REMIND THEM OF WHAT THEIR MEN WANT) AND 3) BEING SEEN AS A DECORATION BY SOME MEN…THEY WANT TO BED US…BUT THEY WANT TO MARRY A DARKER SKINNED WOMEN (SHE SEEMS SAFER SOMEHOW) 40 BEING VIEWED AS A DIVA (WHAT IS THAT EXACTLY?)
"Many tmes have I listened to dark skinned women complaining about their dark skin and the disadvantages it brings...IT WORKS BOTH WAYS..."
Please give some examples of your disadvantages, please? (SEE ABOVE) This is where Grata and myself parallel your claims of "light skin" victimhood to the ones of white people and their white denial arguments. Still lost? I expressed this also on the link I provided at 11:49 am - if you so care.(THE PROBLEM WITH THE PARALLEL IS THIS: WE ARE NOT WHITE-WE REALLY ARE BLACK. OUR EXPERIENCES IN OUR LIGHT BLACK SKIN MAY BE DIFFERENT, BUT NO LESS A LOSS OF RESPECT BY SOME IN SOCIETY (REMEMBER THE KANYE WEST QUOTE? AND THERE ARE MANY MORE LIKE IT. MHO IS THAT ALL BLACK WOMEN DO NOT RECEIVE THE RESPECT THEIR DUE.)
"And if you're saying that you "reap benefits" from your carmel color...how is that NOT COLORISM..????"
It sure is, and that's why I am NOT the victim of it - exactly because of that. Therefore it's insulting to negate the grandeur collective pain of darker skinned women/people just to mollify your inner conscience about that unfairness. Do you get it? (SEE ABOVE ABOUT THE EXPEREINCES OF ALL BLACK WOMEN I ABSOLUTLY NEVER NEGATE THE PAIN OF MY PEOPLE. THEIR PAIN IS MY PAIN…SO YOU ASSUMED WRONGLY).
@ LA (cont.)
"However, I don't "get" your line of thinking and it's obvious you don't "get" mine..."
Well that is something we might be able to fully agree upon. (I CONCUR)
Thrasher was (in his/her own way) belittling CF...in the process of that Trasher used the term "LIGHT SKINNED" woman to do so...as if a light skin woman was the butt of the joke...why didn't he say a dark skinned woman...not as funny maybe? "
Thrasher was probably trying to assign that black hypocrisy to a black person (in this case to CF, being a black male) who may claim they so care about black people/black race, yet they turn around and worship people with white or light flesh (and to possibly "elevate" themselves through having a light/white mate).. I doubt Thrasher was trying to make a butt on the expense of light skinned black women, LOL, he probably lust after them himself. But of course I am not in Thrasher's head, I'm just speculating. (I ‘GET’ WHY THRASHER MADE THAT COMMENT…THAT DOES NOT MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE IT…)
"I think you took issue with me beacuse of something else...the conversation went fine until I made the statement about MY LIGHT SKIN..."
This sounds like a deflection, or some reverse projection tactic you're tying to pull on me :)
I actually lost patience when you again commented about the Amer. vs. Carib slave treatments. As well as attacking me on my mention of ancestral rape (which I made as a strike against enslavers), but somehow you intertwined Thrasher's comment, took up offense with me, and brought in your complexion as the basis. I still find that peculiar. Am I hot or cold? ( WHEN I STATED THAT THE LASH WAS NOT USED IN THE CARIBBEAN DUE TO THE OUTNUMBERING OF SLAVES…I NEVER TOOK IT TO MEAN THAT THE SLAVES HAD A BETTER TIME OF IT. ISIMPLY NEVER EXPOUNDED ON THE THOUGHT. IT IS A GIVEN TO ME THAT IF THE LASH WAS NOT USED SOMETHING HAD TO TAKE ITS’ PLACE…OTHERWISE WHY DID SLAVERY CONTINUE FOR SO AMNY YEARS AFTER? SOME THINGS TO ME ARE JUST A NO-BRAINER.)
"Exactly how do you think this LIGHT SKIN came to be? Yes, maybe there was some love on both sides...but that was few and far between...there was more RAPE than love...trust."
You don't have to tell me that, you are singing to the choir. I've argued with people online who have claimed that many black female slaves were consenting. That would be inaccurate and highly insulting. But you and I well know that's not what this entire thing was about. (NO THAT’S WHAT IT WAS EXACTLY ABOUT…I WAS PARALLELING YOUR WORDS ABOUT RAPE…IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY…COULD I HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THE COLLECTIVE…CERTAINLY…BUT…I THOUGHT I WAS HAVING A SISTAH TO SISTAH MOMENT. HAD I WANTED TO TELL SOMETHING ABOUT MY PHYSICAL APPEARANCE I COULD HAVE DONE IT A LONG TIME AGO. I CHOSE NOT TO UNTIL THIS “WHATEVER IT WAS” CAME UP. YOU SEE, I HAD TO LEARN TO BE PROUD OF MY SKIN COLOR GROWING UP…LET ME SHUT UP BEFORE I HAVE ANOTHER SISTAH TO SISTAH MOMENT)
Peace.
~agape2010~
@LA (again):
Same rules apply...not shouting.
Also Agape, it seems you are solely concentrating on our ancestral rape as the main reason why you are so light skinned. If this is primarily your case, clearly it is not just ancestral rape why you are still so light skinned throughout these generations (even considering how color genetics can be unpredictable and vary among blacks). Based on your photo, it would appear that your prevailing family lineage may have purposely kept within the scope of light and lighter skinned partners.(NOW THIS IS A SINISTER, DEVIOUS, UNDERHANDED WAY TO GET A DIG AT MY FAMILY…THIS IS THE TYPE OF CONVERSATION THAT I THINK IS IDIOTIC AND GOES NOWHERE. BUT I’LL GIVE YOU THIS ONE…BECAUSE IT IS MY JOB TO ENLIGHTEN WHEN I CAN…MY PARENTS HAVE A RAINBOW OF CHILDREN. MY YOUNGEST SISTER HAS VERY ETHIOPEAN LOOKS AND GETS STOPPED AT AIRPORTS TO THIS DAY. MY MOTHER HAS A VERY NATIVE AMERICAN LOOK. MY FATHER, WHO’S MOTHER IS CREOLE IS A VERY DARK SKINNED MAN, MY BROTHER HAS RED UNDERTONES TO HIS SKIN, MY OLDER SISTER HAS THAT CARMEL COLOR YOU SPEAK SO HIGHLY OF, AND I AM THE ONE THAT HAS YELLOW UNDERTONES IN THE FAMILY. WE ALL LOOK ALIKE AND COME FROM THE SAME TWO PARENTS…WE HAVE SKIN VARIATION…AS ALL BLACK FAMILES FROM AFRICAN SLAVES DO. I HPE THIS HELPS CLEAR UP ANY MISCONCEPTIONS YOU HAVE AS TO HOW BLACK FAMILIES CAN VARY FROM CHILD TO CHILD…AND IN THE FUTURE I PROMISE YOU I WILL NOT BE SO NICE IF YOU EVER MAKE ANOTHER STATEMENT ABOUT MY FAMILY AND FOR THE RECORD…WHEN YOU EXTEND AN OLIVE BRANCH…THAT’S NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE. FOR YOU TO SINK THAT LOW AND BRING MY FAMLIY INTO IT, TELLS ME MORE ABOUT YOU…ALL I WANT TO SAY IS THAT I THANK GOD I AM NOT WHO I USED TO BE).
This is another form of generational colorism and anti-black discrimination that a lot of black people don't want to talk about nor admit. Maybe you shouldn't just blame your hue on the ancestral rape of our poor female ancestors, many dark skinned black people fall under that category as well - it's not just you. Instead you need to acknowledge the possible colorism driven preferences in your more recent family history. Something else to also consider. (I KNOW MY FAMILY HISTORYAND GENEALOGY VERY WELL. IT HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED BEFORE IT WAS POPULAR To DO SO (BEFORE GATES). FURTHER, I DO NOT TAKE UNSOLICITED ADVICE FROM PEOPLE I FEEL DO NOT HAVE MY BEST INTEREST AT HEART. ONCE AGAIN…I’M GLAD I’M NOT WHO I USED TO BE…AND NOW I KNOW EVEN MORE ABOUT YOU).
@ LA: (cont.)
Furthermore, I am not in the business of throwing "negativity" towards you after this point.(I THINK YOU THREW PLENTY WHEN YOU COMMENTED ON MY FAMILY…A FAMILY THAT WORKED TIRELESSLY TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHTS YOU HAVE TODAY…I WILL NEVER EXPALIN TO YOU WHERE I COME FROM OR WHO I AM…JUST KNOW THAT YOU HAVE INSULTED SOME PEOPLE THAT FOOUGHT HARD FOR YOUR RIGHT TO BE BLACK AND HAVE RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY. I TAKE WHAT YOU SAID AS A PERSONAL AFFRONT). I have nothing against you,(I CAN’T TELL) in a future thread I might throw a "kudo"(DON’T BOTHER YOUSELF, PLEASE) or try to converse with you in a positive way,(I HOPE YOU DON’t CALL THIS POSITIVE) and it is up to you to engage or ignore to your desired temperament (I KNOW HOW TO “DO ME”, THANKS ANYWAY). That is your right.(DON’T USE MY LINE ON ME…THIK OFYOUR OWN…OR GET ONE FROM YOUR FAMILY…:)
"I have NEVER had a www dialog this idiotic with anyone...EVER."
Well I have on this blog unfortunately, but I am going to leave that alone and not call any names....(THAT MAY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT WHO YOU ARE…IF YOU ARE HAVING THESE TYPES OF IDIOTIC DIALOGS MAYBE YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF…“TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT SELF FIRST”…NOT MY LINE…BELONGS TO MLK JR.)
Speaking of such... Btw MMM/flyin40's, I have seen your mug, and you're not that much "light skinned" as you may think you are - even considered in the US. I know how important "light skin" is to you, and your need to hurl "dark skin" labels to people you dislike and don't even know. But you've barely made it pass the brown paper bag test, just a shade shy of having dome, LOL. I would warn you to never relocate, nor visit any parts near the equator. You might end up turning on yourself.
(Please no BET type vulgarity, academic references, sexual connotations, adult toys, or male genitalia comebacks - Thank you)
(WOW…SO YOU “GOT AT” SOMEBODY IN YOUR RESPONSE TO ME…I GUESS WE CAN CALL IT EVEN NOW, HUH…AT LEAST ON THAT)
Peace.
~agape2010~
Agape said…“I am not shouting...I bolded all my answers to you so that it would seem more like a conversation than a back and forth thing...””
Up to you, but I suspect otherwise. You seem to think you’re a very clever person, but you are very transparent. Anger is normal, if you want to use caps to express your anger, then do it. Don’t hide behind false diplomacy. Still you should always use quotation marks when needed, and avoid doctoring your words, and others into caps after the fact.
Agape, when I asked you to list the disadvantages that light skinned women have, I was hoping for disadvantages that doesn’t also apply to darker skinned women. What you face, they face plus more, including the same various objectification by men, disdain from white women etc… and I don’t know about that claim you made regarding men just wanting to sleep with light skinned women but prefer to marry darker skinned women. With all those statistics about single and manless black women flying around, stats also show most of them are darker skinned for some reason. But you did forget about the trend of lighter skinned black women being unfairly underpaid in corporate America, but then that's after they were picked over the darker skinned black women, of course.
You know, you might admit you have some advantages for having lighter skin, but for some reason you’re still not acknowledging how you may have this over darker skinned women in particular. And you still can’t mamaguy me into thinking because you have melanin it excludes you from being in denial, and not wanting your privileges to end over darker skinned blacks/women. Just like some whites who too can’t see nor admit their privileges over others, and don’t want it to end either. How much of layman’s terminology do you need to help comprehend this parallel?
”DARK SKINNED MEN CATCH HELL. I SAW IT CLEARLY WITH MY SON.”
We all know that. But you’re willing to admit how darker skin men catch hell as compared to lighter skin men, but you can’t bring yourself to admit the same for darker skin black women? You are one self-serving dishonest character.
”WHEN I STATED THAT THE LASH WAS NOT USED IN THE CARIBBEAN DUE TO THE OUTNUMBERING OF SLAVES…I NEVER TOOK IT TO MEAN THAT THE SLAVES HAD A BETTER TIME OF IT.”
So now you’re stating that Carib slaves where never lashed?
”YOU SEE, I HAD TO LEARN TO BE PROUD OF MY SKIN COLOR GROWING UP…LET ME SHUT UP BEFORE I HAVE ANOTHER SISTAH TO SISTAH MOMENT)”
Darker skinned black women have to try even harder. Many of them have to prove they can leap tall buildings in a single bound just to get a corporate job, or that spot on a TV show only to be the mean ol nasty manless character. Oh, and did you know many of those HBCC once upon a time denied and discriminated against darker skin students from attending? Another nasty secret black folks don’t like to talk about.
”NOW THIS IS A SINISTER, DEVIOUS, UNDERHANDED WAY TO GET A DIG AT MY FAMILY…THIS IS THE TYPE OF CONVERSATION THAT I THINK IS IDIOTIC AND GOES NOWHER”
Why is it when the truth start hurting people, this truth somehow makes the entire conversation “idiotic and goes nowhere”.
”MY MOTHER HAS A VERY NATIVE AMERICAN LOOK. MY FATHER, WHO’S MOTHER IS CREOLE IS A VERY DARK SKINNED MAN’
No big surprise (whop there it is). And did your dark skinned father “objectify” your Native American looking mother?
”I HPE THIS HELPS CLEAR UP ANY MISCONCEPTIONS YOU HAVE AS TO HOW BLACK FAMILIES CAN VARY FROM CHILD TO CHILD…”
Didn’t I state something similar beforehand, in prentices, between my original statement? I know you saw it. You give out reading comprehension advice but you don’t follow it. Pulling for straws, as well as arrogance can be blinding.
Agape said... ”I THINK YOU THREW PLENTY WHEN YOU COMMENTED ON MY FAMILY…A FAMILY THAT WORKED TIRELESSLY TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHTS YOU HAVE TODAY…I WILL NEVER EXPALIN TO YOU WHERE I COME FROM OR WHO I AM…JUST KNOW THAT YOU HAVE INSULTED SOME PEOPLE THAT FOOUGHT HARD FOR YOUR RIGHT TO BE BLACK AND HAVE RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY”
Why do you now seem to think that your family is the only family that fought and worked tirelessly for blacks to have rights in America? Again you seem to be a very internalizing and singular thinking person. There are many black/black American people on this very board with families who worked just as hard or harder for you to have rights in America today – be they or they're families dark skinned or light skinned.
Btw, I can also read between condescending lines. Your anger and ignorance is driving you to also make assumptions. There are places in the Carib where descendants of African slaves are born as US citizens, have been for generations now, and before you and your parents were even ideas (just thought I’d let you know). Furthermore, there were also plenty of black Carib immigrants and black Americans with Carib backgrounds who spear-headed and fought along side other black Americans during the civil rights movement in America (And much more than Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, L. Farrakhan, Shirley Chisholm, and many others I can't think of at the moment). Agape, this is why you really need to pick up a book and learn more about African slaves and slave decendants not only in the US, but also throughout the Carib/Euro diaspora - they know all about you already. And I said all of that hoping you weren't trying to take a swipe at black Carib immigrants. Like I said, you are not that clever, or perhaps I'm giving you too much credit.
”IN THE FUTURE I PROMISE YOU I WILL NOT BE SO NICE IF YOU EVER MAKE ANOTHER STATEMENT ABOUT MY FAMILY…. FOR YOU TO SINK THAT LOW AND BRING MY FAMLIY INTO IT
”
Was it something I said that angered you? So now would it be safe to assume that many of the women in your family legacy were light skinned women paired with darker skinned men? Was it by chance or was it by choice? You also insinuated that your own son is dark skinned. There seems to be a pattern, no? Do you still want to stand by that claim you made about men preferring to marry darker skin women after they bed light skin women? Or, were you AGAIN self projecting this concept because that might have been an isolated case that applied to YOUR personal life?
Agape, please do not play games nor threaten me. I am not one to adhere, if you knew me, you would know I enjoy this type ruckus. You seem to be the type of woman who is accustomed to getting her way, and maybe belittling others. Not here with me. You also seem to be very vindictive and emotionally charged, maybe that's why.... never mind.
As for your "olive branch" theory, I could only smile. Perhaps that's why so much of us thinned skinned spoiled blacks can't function among whites in their cut throat corporate environment. Some of us don't know how to efficiently play back that game of "pirate" in the office, while also learning how to go "happy hour" and like they do, leave our differences at the door until tomorrow. Honey, you can throw anything in my face, you can cyber whip me across my back, but remember my back is broad - just like my African and Caribbean Indian ancestors.
(PS, there might be numerous typos, but I felt this dialogue was not important enough for me to proof read).
When I said HBCC I meant to say, HBCU before someone goes apeshit and make it some pointer for their cause.
Actually, they bought the slaves from A-rabs. Muslim traders had been selling Africans for centuries - in fact, they still do it now!
There seems to be a pattern, no? Do you still want to stand by that claim you made about men preferring to marry darker skin women after they bed light skin women? Or, were you AGAIN self projecting this concept because that might have been an isolated case that applied to YOUR personal life?
Ouch!
La♥audiobooks said...
Also Agape, it seems you are solely concentrating on our ancestral rape as the main reason why you are so light skinned. If this is primarily your case, clearly it is not just ancestral rape why you are still so light skinned throughout these generations (even considering how color genetics can be unpredictable and vary among blacks). Based on your photo, it would appear that your prevailing family lineage may have purposely kept within the scope of light and lighter skinned partners.
This is another form of generational colorism and anti-black discrimination that a lot of black people don't want to talk about nor admit. Maybe you shouldn't just blame your hue on the ancestral rape of our poor female ancestors, many dark skinned black people fall under that category as well - it's not just you. Instead you need to acknowledge the possible colorism driven preferences in your more recent family history. Something else to also consider.
Furthermore, I am not in the business of throwing "negativity" towards you after this point. I have nothing against you, in a future thread I might throw a "kudo" or try to converse with you in a positive way, and it is up to you to engage or ignore to your desired temperament. That is your right.
"I have NEVER had a www dialog this idiotic with anyone...EVER."
Well I have on this blog unfortunately, but I am going to leave that alone and not call any names....
Speaking of such... Btw MMM/flyin40's, I have seen your mug, and you're not that much "light skinned" as you may think you are - even considered in the US. I know how important "light skin" is to you, and your need to hurl "dark skin" labels to people you dislike and don't even know. But you've barely made it pass the brown paper bag test, just a shade shy of having dome, LOL. I would warn you to never relocate, nor visit any parts near the equator. You might end up turning on yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Looks like I went after the wrong person intially. Shit, I HATE when I do that!
So now I'm wondering, does the term Doo-Doo-Brown have any meaning for ya'? Tell ya' what, Imma just call you DDB for short, LOL!!!
@ LA:
I see what your issue is now...
And so...I know what box to put you in...
I found a fool of ignorance...so I will....leave her of her same opinion still.
Anytime your in the ATL look me up...I'll be right here on this blog...give me a shout out...:)
From the LIGHT SKINNED woman that has all the advantages YOU NEVER WILL...*hearing violins playing cry me a river*
Peace for your black soul (and not the color).
~Still Agape2010~
Agape, I'm delighted that you have calmed down. I'm in ATL all the time.
From the LIGHT SKINNED woman that has all the advantages YOU NEVER WILL...*hearing violins playing cry me a river*
LOL. When all else fails, this is the only concept you know best to run back to. It's not your fault. That's why it's hard to take you seriously.
I know it's always difficult to understand why someone who may not have darker skin would risk pointing out the collective pain of many darker skin women/people. If I was an insular thinking person, I too would have been trapped in one of those boxes you seem to collect around you.
I'm not mad at you.
But in the future, please do not misguide others with your exaggerated mock outrage (which came out of nowhere) over the mass rape of our poor ancestors in order to deflect, or to over compensate on the conscious colorism choices of your more recent family lineage, and for whatever colorism advantages you may so reap (tauntingly) because of such. Thanks.
"Peace for your black soul (and not the color)"
Like wise, and I wish one day for your heart to be light (and not the hue).
Peace and Blessings,
La
So now I think I'm starting to understand. The ONLY 2 people I've ever seen DDB aka La Audio "go after" on this blog are obviously multicultural Black women.
Well I guess I too understand your plight. Instead of blaming that f*cked up attitude you wear like a wet blanket, you direct your anger and resentment toward Black men and the women YOU think they favor.
Tell ya' what, I have a MD friend in the ATL whose married to a Psychiatrist (Ironically, one of those fine, happy, intelligent, deep chocolate brown skinned sistah's who had NO PROBLEM getting a fine, black man to "put a ring on it") that I could recommend you meet next time you're there. Just an FYI, you'll probably need to meet her in the 'burb she lives in because I doubt she knows the way to the local Greyhound bus station.
DDB, if you put more energy into your REAL LIFE than you do talking shit on the internet, you soon may not have to go to bed alone anymore,
MeandMyMicroscope,
I didn't realize you were the same person as flyinmy40s. This whole thing on the blog started cause of you calling others feces skin and other insulting names on dark skin tones, I remember. its a shame what you cause.
@MMM:
LA is not hard to figure out. She put her pic up so I could see it. She's not all that dark skinned, so she probably is suffering from an inferiority complex since she lives in a place where darker skinned persons reside.
They may have made her to feel like an outcast. Rather than identify herself with the plight of lighter skinned females, she strives hard to be seen with the more privileged class of darker skinned women where she resides. However she is shunned by them. She is neither dark skinned nor light skinned but lost in that forever gray area she noted as "caramel".
Further, she noted that she had a "broad back". No real woman wants to look like a linebacker. For a woman to state in her profile that she thrives on contention simply means she is seeking attention and not the sort of attention given to a linebacker.
Her profile picture has her interacting with a dolphin, as if she and the dolphin had some sort of tryst. Her smile is as broad as her back. The dolphin too seemed to have enjoyed this would be tryst.
One final note on this case study is that LA is young. Young enough probably to be my child. I know how long it takes some young women to grow up and accept themselves. I realize it may be more difficult for some than others as they do have more to face in society.
Having a linebacker body with caramel skin, limited scope of understanding, filled with contention, interested in witches (normally only found to be an interest for young white females), who has more in common with a white girl than black women, the inclination to have trysts with animal species, and finds an inordinate amount of time to write responses that contradict each other with no focus or clarity would make a great study for a young student looking for a thesis topic relating to "identity crises in the young black female and how to cope".
I fully understand now why you and she are constantly at odds, which is what she wants from me. However, she will only get what's coming to her from me, which is nothing.
I'm not giving this one anymore of my valuable time. She's textbook...;)
Peace.
~agape2010~
agape2010 said...
@MMM:
LA is not hard to figure out. She put her pic up so I could see it. She's not all that dark skinned, so she probably is suffering from an inferiority complex since she lives in a place where darker skinned persons reside.
They may have made her to feel like an outcast. Rather than identify herself with the plight of lighter skinned females, she strives hard to be seen with the more privileged class of darker skinned women where she resides. However she is shunned by them. She is neither dark skinned nor light skinned but lost in that forever gray area she noted as "caramel".
Further, she noted that she had a "broad back". No real woman wants to look like a linebacker. For a woman to state in her profile that she thrives on contention simply means she is seeking attention and not the sort of attention given to a linebacker.
Her profile picture has her interacting with a dolphin, as if she and the dolphin had some sort of tryst. Her smile is as broad as her back. The dolphin too seemed to have enjoyed this would be tryst.
One final note on this case study is that LA is young. Young enough probably to be my child. I know how long it takes some young women to grow up and accept themselves. I realize it may be more difficult for some than others as they do have more to face in society.
Having a linebacker body with caramel skin, limited scope of understanding, filled with contention, interested in witches (normally only found to be an interest for young white females), who has more in common with a white girl than black women, the inclination to have trysts with animal species, and finds an inordinate amount of time to write responses that contradict each other with no focus or clarity would make a great study for a young student looking for a thesis topic relating to "identity crises in the young black female and how to cope".
I fully understand now why you and she are constantly at odds, which is what she wants from me. However, she will only get what's coming to her from me, which is nothing.
I'm not giving this one anymore of my valuable time. She's textbook...;)
Peace.
~agape2010~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Agreed!
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