Thursday, April 08, 2010

Who cares? They are just people.


The next time you hear some free market conservative talking about the beauty of free market capitalism, just say the words Massey to him. And, if that doesn't work, try Sago.

Oh ohh, here comes field using another tragedy to once again to score cheap political points.

Yep, you damn right! Because the people who love to promote the laissez-faire economic philosophy so popular among the wingnuts, rarely stop to think about the human cost of their abstract ideology. They put people in charge of overseeing something as dangerous as a mine, and these people keep their eyes on the bottom line and not the human factor.

It's why, time and time again, when we hear of these tragic mine explosions, we realize that the multi million dollar corporations that these poor minors bust it for, are usually in violation of multiple safety codes. (Fifty three in March for this latest company.) It's why these scumbag mining corporations consistently fight against giving their workers the right to organize with a union and fashion a collective bargaining agreement under which they can work.

This latest case is particularly egregious because the owner of this mine is a big time republican donor and global warming denier . This clown lines his own pockets while shelling out money to keep state and party officials in said pockets. And it's not just republicans; democratic poli-trick-sters in that state like Rick Rahall and Robert Byrd should shoulder some of the blame as well.

So twenty five more men (and counting) have lost their lives, and no one will be held accountable. We will hear that it was because of some accident or another: A gas leak, poor ventilation, or poorly trained workers. What we won't hear is that until some of these corporations start putting people before profits, sadly, another day in the not too distant future, the country will be mourning the loss of yet more miners.

142 comments:

Not_RJ said...

Yep, we need regulation. Where there is competition, whether its in the athletic arena or the markets, referees and regulators are needed.

Human beings are incapable of policing or regulating themselves where they have an interest or something at stake; it defies human nature.

La♥audiobooks said...

"So twenty five more men (and counting) have lost their lives, and no one will be held accountable."

Big corporations and the rich are never accountable for tragedies such as this, capitalism has it's privileges and protection.

Such a shame. I feel bad for those who suffered and the families they may have left behind.

(hmmm, I wonder how much of them were hoping for a confederacy month to celebrate with in the future)

Jolly Roger said...

Most of the "MARKETS!!!" morons don't have a clue as to how gamed our version of "capitalism" is, and they're too stupid to educate. They'll continue to swallow whatever comes out of the ass of a dope addict down in Florida, and they'll smile about it.

Anonymous said...

"No one held accountable?"

What - you branching into personal injury law now? I assume these folks will get a lawyer and win some much deserved $$$. Doesn't bring their loved ones back, but that's life, not capitalism. Working for the post office is dangerous too ... and they don't even make a profit.

mellaneous said...

Brother Field this is definitely Field Negro posting. I hope praying folks say one for the families.

Field said:

"What we won't hear is that until some of these corporations start putting people before profits, sadly, another day in the not too distant future, the country will be mourning the loss of yet more miners."

How true Field how true.

Oh and it gets worse, check out this article from MSNBC they closed the particular mine 61 times in the last 15 months.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36283885/ns/us_news-life/

Anon said:

"Doesn't bring their loved ones back, but that's life, not capitalism."

You are wrong anon this is not life. Life involves folks living and dying and living to the end of their lives without it cut short artifically, indirectly and sometimes directly by greed.

This is indeed the handiwork of capitalism not life. Life is granted by the Creator not capitalism.

It wasn't life that required that these miners work in an unsafe mine. That was a decision by the owners not "LIFE"

You do realize that when you try to deny the obvious it makes it hard,if not impossible to believe anything to say, which is why I guess you choose to remain anonymous.

Jody said...

Anon... you insenstive bastard.... why don't you ask them what they would rather have, their family member? or money from a settlement?

It is assholes like you that can so cavalierly dismiss the suffering of others that is what's wrong with this country.

Massey has been repeatedly fined. Massey told it's managers that they were in the business of extracting coal, not worrying about safety. Massey has fought the unionization of it's mine workers.

And, it was Massey's CEO that showed up at the Tea Party Rally in DC, acting like he was with "the people", talking about being taxed too much, and talking about how we can't afford social programs. He represents the Epitome of the hypocracy of those that started the Tea Party (rich, white male fucks) and then duped a a bunch of working class people like these miners, that they were "with them"... Mother fuckers just want to use those poor fools to further line their pockets...

MASSEY'S CEO NEEDS TO BE CHARGED WITH NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE!

As you might be able to tell, this shit pisses me off!!!!

field negro said...

"No one held accountable?"

What - you branching into personal injury law now? I assume these folks will get a lawyer and win some much deserved $$$. Doesn't bring their loved ones back, but that's life, not capitalism.."

Nope, don't do PI. But I am guessing that neither do you, because if you did, you would have mentioned that the worker's compensation laws in WV might slow down that pay day you are talking about. But hey, like you said: "that's life". Unfortunately, it's also capitalism.

field negro said...

PREACH JODY! Hey, have you seen Destructive Wingnut, lately? I think he is chilling with our boy Michael Steele and trying to help him save his job. :)

"You are wrong anon this is not life. Life involves folks living and dying and living to the end of their lives without it cut short artifically, indirectly and sometimes directly by greed."

Co-sign mell.

La~Audio...stay safe this hurricane season. I hear it's going to be a rough one. Don't ask me why I just thought of that, but I know that you are down there in the tropics.

mellaneous said...

Amen Jody! I feel you when I first read about it, it got to me too. I kept thinking man when are these folks going to do right.

But no amount of regulation will change these folks its the system. They would rather pay the fine than treat workers like human beings.

And just think folks give me a hard time because I don't support,nor condone the system of capitalism and keep saying we have to change or eventually die.

I'm out, thanks again Field. Got stuff to do and don't want to blow a gasket on this one. Anon is incredibly insensitive!! I can hardly believe what he said.

LACoincidental said...

I'm going to pretend that Anon@9:41 made such a ridiculous comment.

'That's life, not capitalism'? What kind of callous, heartless nonsense is that? I bet your Ayn Rand reading group is populated by suburban kids who probably never mowed a lawn.

Anyway, this isn't shocking. Going to different management school open houses, I can see the type of heartless money-grubbers would run these mines. Because many of these heartless money grubbers are running IT firms and oil refineries in California. Frankly, this looks like the worse form of "MBA mindset" where things are merely cells on a spreadsheet with no concept of real consequences. Shaving a few dollars on safety standards has just create 25 grieving families. All so some rich redneck


Since B-School don't teach ethics all that well and these greedy bastards are obviously not going to do anything that might take a few dollars of their bottom line, its up to the government to police these scoundrels.

Anonymous said...

Yes, what we need need is China's approach to coal extraction. Thousands die there because they are insignificant in the big picture of the economic growth of China. The WV mine should have been fixed, agree with you there...

szpork

La♥audiobooks said...

"La~Audio...stay safe this hurricane season. I hear it's going to be a rough one. Don't ask me why I just thought of that, but I know that you are down there in the tropics."

Um Field, you wouldn't be trying to hint Karma would ya? (Or maybe that's my conscience pricking me :) I've been a bad girl on this blog, I can't help it Field, this constant hot weather makes me do it.

Yes I have a feeling it's going to be scary. It's hot and miserable. Even december was hot as hell. My electrical bill alone has been over $600 every month (cost of living is much higher in the USVI, most people in the US mainland aren't aware of that), and my beloved AC is almost headed for the po-po. Maybe it's a sign, I think I better play nice from now on, not.

Thanks for the well wishes!

field negro said...

"The WV mine should have been fixed, agree with you there..."

szpork, I guess there is a first time for everything.

field negro said...

" Maybe it's a sign, I think I better play nice from now on, not."

No, then we wouldn't recognize you. What's that old Billy Joel song? "Don't go changing"? LOL!

Anonymous said...

Field,
Thanks for that link called "people in charge"
I've even thought to myself what is the difference between the parties and politicians when I'm thinking pesimistically.
Always on the job writing your blog, how do you have the time?

Much Aloha from Makaii

Farman said...

Massey is a major contributor to the Tea "Party" conglomeration, for lack of a better word. He's a cheap labor conservative (http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/16), which is actually what most fiscally lassez-faire conservatives are. Hmmm, I wonder why...

Farman said...

The sad part is that, like the poor southerners during the civil war, these same type of people (teabaggers) are being used by the free market, cheap labor conservatives and they don't even know it. Which is why conservatives are so critical of the liberal media, educational system and meeting of minds as in unions. They thrive on ignorance, well actually they can only survive in that vacuum.

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

I pray that the Lord will send a comforter to these families in their time of grief,that he give them strength to endure, and surround them with people who will lift their spirit with love.

Anonymous 9:41:

That name that AB gave you fits you well because you are definitely one coldhearted, heartless assnon. The time is coming soon when that same shoe will be on your foot, and you'll get a taste of your own medicine.

Maureen Small said...

Field..love your blog. I am new here. Bottom line it will always be cheaper to pay the fines than be in compliance. The fines are chump change to these big boys. Keep up the scorcher posts.

Jody said...

Every time there is regulation, there is the push by owners to fight it..... they complain it is too expensive, or that they don't need it because they know best... they convince their workers that they will shut down the mine (Massey threatened the workers that if they unionized they would shut down the mine) because of high costs...

And then they convince (read pay off) politicians to pass laws that relax or do away with regulations... all so they can line their pockets...

Well, for all those out there that think private industry owners know best, I hope you will remember this moment. I hope you will think of the families of those that have died. Died for a damn paycheck.

Blood is on the hands of the CEO, the politicians that pushed and passed deregulation, the so-called regulators that did not shut down Massey AFTER multiple violations and allowed them to just keep paying the fines rather than fix the safety problems... This is a crime. Blood is on their hands!

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

szpork:

"Yes, what we need need is China's approach to coal extraction. Thousands die there because they are insignificant in the big picture of the economic growth of China."

I don't understand your logic. Why would we need China's approach if thousands are dying there and they are considered insignificant? Isn't human life more valuable than senseless death and families unnecessary grief? If that is China's approach than they are no better than Massey

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Amen Jody, I co-signed with everything you've said.

agape2010 said...

@ Jody:

All of your above statements....

Bravo and Well Said!

Peace.
~agape2010~

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Field, and Company,

I am at a loss for words. Whether people know it or not, THIS is why Martin Luther King, Jr. died. He was against the Vietnam war, but he was actively campaigning and organizing poor people for change in this country. THAT, more than anything, freaked out the "capitalists" and their ilk. Who, among the "capitalists", would want people organizing according to their needs, as opposed to the "real think" that ordered their lives? I think everyone should read "Race" by Studs Terkel. It is an oral narrative of US people's opinions on race in the good ol' USA. It also includes narratives dealing with what's REALLY GOING ON in our United States of America. Very mind-expanding reading.

I realize that many of these miners who have lost their lives probably did not vote for our Prez, even though he would be the one who would champion their cause for safety in the mines. However, in spite of this, I feel really sad for their families and loved ones, because, after all---they just want to live the American dream, love, and be safe. They were, and are, human beings, just as we are.

Sometimes, life is just SAD. But Jesus said, "The poor will be with you always." I don't think he was talking about just poor-economically---I think he was talking about people who think, and reason, poorly (among other poor).

SueCitySue

Anonymous said...

They don't want a 'free market'...they want a 'fixed market'. Free markets bring guilds, regulations and other stuff.

Mold

Philosophy Prof said...

All I can say, Field, is Amen, Amen. Thank you for your words.

Anonymous said...

Farman said...
"The sad part is that, like the poor southerners during the civil war, these same type of people (teabaggers) are being used by the free market, cheap labor conservatives and they don't even know it. "

a few less racist crackers - who cares?

Gregory said...

"PREACH JODY! Hey, have you seen Destructive Wingnut, lately? I think he is chilling with our boy Michael Steele and trying to help him save his job. :)

Field, I think that CF and Frank D are one and the same. Ever see them in the room together? Without "anonymous" sockpuppets? Me neither.

On to the topic, this sort of thing is just what the free marketeers want. No meddling gubbmint regulations on their way to make a profit. They will pay some modest amounts to the families of those killed and keep going in the same direction. The invisible hand and all that.

I send my condolences to the families and friends of those killed in this incident. I cannot imagine how difficult it is for them.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]The next time you hear some free market conservative talking about the beauty of free market capitalism, just say the words Massey to him. And, if that doesn't work, try Sago.[/quote]

Filled Negro:

I just got back from Cuba. (Seriously) Boy do I have a bevy of research on the leftist utopia for you and others to chew upon. I gave Fidel your blog address. He said that he'd holla at you. He said that he was proud of you from what I told him about your blog thus far.


Filled Negro - why don't you start the "Van Jones/Filled Negro Green Energy Cooperative".

You can create NON-COAL sourced energy for all of your true believers.

The catch is that once they sign up for your service they must be TAKEN OFF OF THE GRID. You and Van will then be charged with connecting their house in what ever way you decide.

The customer must also accept power outages as being part of the "cause".

What do you think?

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field negro said...

Ahhh, the Destructive Wingnut. Nice to see you back. Yes, Fidel is a hero of mine from history, so you got that part right.

Still, I haven't heard you defend your capitalist friends. It must be getting harder and harder for you.

Roderick said...

I really can't feel too sorry for these folks because WV has voted for the anti-regulation Republican the last couple of presidential elections.

These people prefer to save the 'life' of a fetus than their own lives.

The problem with these folks is will they ever understand the connection between this tragedy and voting for anti-regulation Republicans. Unfortunately I doubt it. LOL

Sooner or later Byrd and Rockerfeller will be replaced with Republicans in the Senate because even the governor is a conservative Democrat or DINO

Jody said...

UnConn... maybe you need a time out to study a little history. It was the Government's Rural Electrification Program that built the infrastructure of "the grid." It was NOT private enterprise, private companies, and in fact, until deregulation, utilities were public works programs exclusively. Over time, there has been a concerted effort to privatize utilities, under the guise of these same capitalists that private industry "does it better, and cheaper." Utilities is a great example of how capitalists have acted as vultures, USING what was created by the Government for their own profit and greed.

And, coal is an ingredient for the grid... it is not the grid. Sustainable, renewable resources, ie ingredients, are possible and we should be spending our time and resources developing them, instead of limited, polluting resources such as coal and petroleum. That concept is not "liberal" it is just common sense, that is if you want your children to have a future.

maria said...

how would the tea baggers, libertarians and others who hate government ensure that the miners--and other workers--are protected???


wapo says obama to review laws, congress to hold hearings.

Obama to review mine safety rules after West Virginia blast killed 25 miners
By Ed O'Keefe
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 9, 2010; A18

President Obama said Thursday that he will meet next week with officials from the Labor Department and Mine Safety and Health Administration to get their assessment of Monday's blast at the Upper Big Branch coal mine in West Virginia, where at least 25 miners were killed.

Officials are expected to discuss what could be done to prevent future disasters, the White House said.

Labor Secretary Hilda L. Solis, who will attend the White House meeting, said, "Every mine explosion is preventable, and it is the responsibility of the mine operator to ensure the health and safety of the miners at all times -- not just when MSHA inspectors are present."

Lawmakers this week also promised hearings to explore what actions the mine's owner and federal regulators took before the explosion.

"We intend to look into this tragedy and convene hearings at the appropriate time," House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller (D-Calif.) said in a statement Tuesday.

Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.), who co-sponsored a 2006 measure that instituted major mine safety reforms after a Sago, W.Va., mine blast that killed 12, said he hoped to learn more about how the MSHA assigns inspectors.

maria said...

"We have to make sure we have our people positioned for inspections appropriate to the risk," Isakson said.

He noted, however, that after Sago, lawmakers waited until the completion of investigations before introducing legislation. "I think the same should be called for now," he said.

Whatever the next steps, regulatory practices are too crisis-focused, government and regulatory experts said Thursday.

"It's typical in that a lot of people, including Congress, tend to only pay attention to it after some disaster has happened," said Matt Madia, a federal regulatory policy analyst with OMB Watch. "We see a lot of parallels with food safety and the Food and Drug Administration only coming under scrutiny after a food-borne illness. Or lead paint in toys. Then the Consumer Product Safety Commission draws attention."

The MSHA is a weak agency that has failed to use its authority with full force, Madia said.

Most federal regulatory agencies have seen their political influence and enforcement powers diminish in recent decades, said Brookings Institution government scholar Paul Light.

"Some are stronger than others, but it's very hard to find one that hasn't had some problem," Light said.

MSHA has the authority to issue citations, levy fines and temporarily withdraw workers or equipment from mines in specific circumstances, according to Labor Department officials. It does not have the authority to permanently close a mine, but can ask a federal judge for an injunction if a company's pattern of violations represents a continuing hazard to the health and safety of miners, the agency said.

In 2007, a year after passage of reforms to bolster the agency, Miller and Reps. Lynne Woolsey (D-Calif.) and Nick Rahall (D-W.Va.) introduced a bill that, for the first time, granted subpoena authority to MSHA and permitted officials to stop production at a mine if a company failed to address violations quickly. The bill also mandated the agency take the lead on rescue efforts and provided the 2,400-staffed agency with money to hire a miner ombudsman to field whistleblower complaints.

The bill also called on the MSHA to more strongly enforce the use of explosion-proof seals to close off abandoned areas of mines.

The House passed the bill and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) introduced legislation in the Senate. Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton agreed to co-sponsor the measure in March 2008. But the bill failed to generate sufficient Republican support. Isakson said he had not heard of the bill.

Mining industry leaders and some academics considered the 2007 bill premature and potentially confusing to mine operators still in the process of implementing reforms from the 2006 law, said National Mining Association spokeswoman Carol Raulston. The Bush administration also opposed the measure; a January 2008 Office of Management and Budget statement said that the bill "would provide no opportunity for stakeholder participation in the regulatory process and would impose burdensome and unrealistic time requirements."

But Celeste Monforton, a George Washington University public health professor and a former MSHA official, suggested that the MSHA already has the necessary powers to go after non-compliant companies.

"They need to be as shrewd and creative and protective of worker health and safety as what they get from the other side," she said.

"If people are gaming the system, fine, change it. That's not the only way they can fix the policy, but that's one easy thing."

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Still, I haven't heard you defend your capitalist friends.[/quote]

Filled Negro:

Here is what YOU fail to understand.

YOU "defend capitalism" each time you pay your electricity bill for SERVICED RENDERED.

The way you can make note of your complicity is to:

1) Find the local power generating plant that provides you with electricity

2) Note the RAILROAD TRACKS that are installed into the facility.

3) Next time the empty coal car departs to get refilled - FOLLOW IT using the old style "two man pump cart" which will allow you to ride the rails

I recall seeing a documentary that noted the network of rails that stream out of West Virginia into the various urban centers that are in he general region.

REST ASSURE, FILLED NEGRO - those miners that you are so fond of have produced coal that provided the steam that turned the turbine which produced the electricity that you consume.

Show your DISCONTENTMENT - by REFUSING to pay your ELECTRICITY BILL until PECO finds new clean energy sources.

maria said...

actually, refusing to pay your bill wouldn't solve anything.

however, if you can switch to 100% wind generated electricity--and in our area you can--THAT is a positive step you can take against coal and coal-mining, and always dispute the assertion that there is a such thing as "clean coal."

it's a lie--which obama bought. (yet FURTHER evidence that we are able to criticize obama, do not worship him and are not obama "nazis" tho i know this comment will be ignored).

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] It was the Government's Rural Electrification Program that built the infrastructure of "the grid." It was NOT private enterprise, private companies, and in fact, until deregulation, utilities were public works programs exclusively. [/quote]

Jody:

Help me out because CLEARLY it is YOU who are confused.

WHERE did the "GOVERNMENT" get the MONEY from? Did they print it from DEBT?

I will switch over to telecom because this is what I am most comfortable with.

When we look at the "Universal Service Fund" which was used to build out telecom infrastructure for large swaths of rural areas - it was not "GOVERNMENT MONEY". Instead it was a FEE added to the payments made by CONSUMERS who had phones that was collected and used to build out these rural areas.

CAN YOU POINT TO a "GOVERNMENT TELECOM COMPANY" with trucks and backhoes that built out this network?

OF COURSE NOT.
The GOVERNMENT merely did RESOURCE REALLOCATION so that all people can have phones.

IT IS TRUE that in a market based system - sparsely populated areas can't be COST JUSTIFIED. They require longer cable runs and fewer people leverage the electronic equipment. Thus their monthly bill paid is not enough to cover the cost of the installation and maintenance.

When you say "Public Works" - aside from dams (which now environmentalist leftist hate) - what are you speaking of?

Constructive Feedback said...

Mellaneous, Jody and LAC:

The last time that I was in Pittsburgh I noted how the river water is cleaner than ever.

Do you think that this was due to better EPA REGULATION?

OR is it the fact that so many FACTORIES that were upstream are now GONE and thus the river has turned back into its more pristine state?

The most frustrating thing about Progressive-Fundamentalists to me is that you PRETEND that you are above making hard economic decisions that involve OPPORTUNITY COSTS.

While INDEED the rivers are CLEAN - it is also true that the Rust Belt Region has among the highest UNEMPLOYMENT RATES in the nation. They are no longer "offending" in pollution. But now they are OFFENDING in the matter of engaging the HUMAN RESOURCES into the work place.

It is a different day. If this accident happened under EVIL BUSH you all would be saying that HIS POLICIES which favored evil corporations KILLED THESE MEN.

Today with a favorable president you merely BLAME THE CORPORATIONS.

Why are you all surprised that per your hostility to CORPORATIONS these "consumers of LABOR" tend to move AWAY from the places where your capital destroying ideology is most entrenched?

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]actually, refusing to pay your bill wouldn't solve anything.
[/quote]

SURE IT WOULD Maria.

Coal generated Electricity, like Petroleum is a direct consequence of CONSUMER DEMAND.

IF people LOWERED THEIR STANDARD OF LIVING (and became more in line with what I saw in the Island Utopia Of Cuba) then as much as the evil capitalists attempted to shove their dirty carbon energy upon us - the system would back up.

* The oil supertanker would be stuck in port- unable to off load its cargo and make a return trip to Venezuela for more. The land based tanks, remaining full because the supply chain is not purchasing OIL would have to tell the wholesale distributors to ease up on their deliveries

* The COAL CARS that need to be emptied in Cleveland so they can make a return trip to the coal mines would stand idle and full, waiting for enough CONSUMER CAPITALIST CO-CONSPIRATORS to charge up their iPads, Tivos and LCD Televisions thus bringing the generator to full power.

IF YOU DON'T PAY YOUR BILL (and if you stop consuming the services which triggered the bill), Maria - you had better believe that you can make the "BEAST who's belly you live in" DIE FROM ANEMIA!!!!

Develop a plan to carry this out Mellaneous.

All the while I need to go see if the nuclear power plant that I read that Fidel Castro was building in 1986 ever came on line.

Jody said...

Ummm UnConn, you are trying to compare apples and oranges....

Utilities... ie, electricity, gas and water, are, by the government definition, Needs... you can die from cold, heat or lack of water. You cannot from access or not to a phone (although I think these days most people would dispute that)... but not literally die.

Telecomms needed for their grid to Access public utilities to grow their grid. And, the airwaves are considered public domain... thus regulation.

Bottom line, where there is deregulation, there is inevitably exploitation, higher costs and abuse that follows, and sadly death.

People need to go back and rethink why something was created as a government program. THERE WAS A REASON! And often it was the recognition that there was an obligation to the "social contract" that creates a civilized, developed society. Capitalists are the vultures that work angles to exploit and abuse that public contract.

maria said...

why did you ignore the rest of what i wrote? it's not fair to do that. and then build your response on one part.

refusing to pay your bill WON'T solve anything.

switching to windpower will help.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Utilities... ie, electricity, gas and water, are, by the government definition, Needs... you can die from cold, heat or lack of water. You cannot from access or not to a phone (although I think these days most people would dispute that)... but not literally die.[/quote]

Actually Jody - THIS IS NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT that you make.

You fail to introduce the notion of PREVAILING LIVING STANDARD and the desire to more equally distribute it.

SURELY ole George Washington and Thomas Jefferson did not beat their "field negroes" with the benefit of a florescent lamp. SINCE WHEN did electricity, running water magically coming out of your wall become some social mandate or RIGHT?

I bet, Jody that if Barack Obama:

* Gave out a chord of firewood to all who needs it for heat and cooking

* All of the batteries that one might need for basic electricity at home

* A water truck for every community in need..............

THE PRESENCE OF these "basic utilities" that one needs to stay alive WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED BY YOU and others BECAUSE they were not GIVEN by the Government via the medium that is in line with the prevailing Standard Of Living.

Who are you kidding Jody?

The bottom line of it all, Jody, this is about using the GOVERNMENT to enforce a more "normalized" living standard, REDISTRIBUTING resources based on some idea of a social contract that we have with each other.

The key difference between you and I, darling, is that YOUR contract is far more encompassing and generous with other people's private property.

I, on the other hand, will never achieve your level of popularity amongst those who don't slap the crap out of the people who label them "The Least Of These". For in my world view - a PEOPLE who are desirous of a certain standard of living and societal order must learn how to EXPRESS this order on the BACKS OF THE PEOPLE who desire it the most.

They must develop the COMPETENCIES necessary to live at this standard. The day they see that they can VOTE their way into this standard - is the day that they become ENSLAVED to the system. They realize that as "Massa is sick" - so goes their standard of living beyond which their own industriousness could bring to them.

You want to SERVICE people.
I want people to manage their human resources toward a directed end.

uptownsteve said...

CF

"The last time that I was in Pittsburgh I noted how the river water is cleaner than ever.

Do you think that this was due to better EPA REGULATION?

OR is it the fact that so many FACTORIES that were upstream are now GONE and thus the river has turned back into its more pristine state?"

And the reasons why the steel mills are gone CF?

How about the fact that the world market changed but the practices of the American Steel industry didn't.

The technological breakthroughs were made elsewhere. Other nations learned to make steel better and more efficiently and they sold it cheaper.

Upper management was grossly overrcompensated while the rank and file worker's job was hot, dirty, ear-shattering and dangerous.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]switching to windpower will help.[/quote]

Maria:

BE MY GUEST!!

Start a "Windmill factory" that puts presently unemployed people in Detroit, Philly, Baltimore, East St Louis back to work.

Then you have to FINANCE it. Not only the construction costs but the AFFORDABILITY of the unit as it is placed upon my house.

Then you need to solve the problem with periods when there is no WIND.

Also - how do you apply windmill technology to automobiles?

What about the environmentalists who hate the fact that birds and bats are impaled by the blades. Not to mention the aesthetic reasons why the late Senator Ted Kennedy opposed the sight of these contraptions in his Nantucket Sound vacation palace.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]How about the fact that the world market changed but the practices of the American Steel industry didn't.

The technological breakthroughs were made elsewhere. Other nations learned to make steel better and more efficiently and they sold it cheaper.

Upper management was grossly overrcompensated while the rank and file worker's job was hot, dirty, ear-shattering and dangerous[/quote]

The rantings of a BIGOT. Of course this is how things transpired Steve.

BUT WAIT - you just indicted yourself. WHY weren't these PROCESS REVOLUTIONS introduced in the steel mills?

Could it be that JOB PROTECTION had a stifling effect? Those who looked at their short term interests, resisted new processes that eliminated jobs yet they now look in the mirror and functionally blame the MANAGEMENT for agreeing with Labor in not introducing these new processes.

I am reading the book "Fidel Castro and Religion". In one part of the book he says: "CAPITALISM cares more about PRODUCTIVITY than it does the WORKER. This is why they automate and fire people"

Later on, WhiteBowieSteve - he tells of how in the past he used to have to snatch up 300,000 workers to tend to the sugar cane harvest - NOW DUE TO MECHANIZED FARMING - he is able to do the same task, with higher yields but only use 7,000 workers. He failed to see the contradiction in his words between chapters.

(You all had better believe that I have NEW AMMO to use against your leftist/Anti-Capitalist rants. I went to YOUR MECCA!!!)

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]How about the fact that the world market changed but the practices of the American Steel industry didn't.

The technological breakthroughs were made elsewhere. Other nations learned to make steel better and more efficiently and they sold it cheaper.

Upper management was grossly overrcompensated while the rank and file worker's job was hot, dirty, ear-shattering and dangerous[/quote]

The rantings of a BIGOT. Of course this is how things transpired Steve.

BUT WAIT - you just indicted yourself. WHY weren't these PROCESS REVOLUTIONS introduced in the steel mills?

Could it be that JOB PROTECTION had a stifling effect? Those who looked at their short term interests, resisted new processes that eliminated jobs yet they now look in the mirror and functionally blame the MANAGEMENT for agreeing with Labor in not introducing these new processes.

I am reading the book "Fidel Castro and Religion". In one part of the book he says: "CAPITALISM cares more about PRODUCTIVITY than it does the WORKER. This is why they automate and fire people"

Later on, WhiteBowieSteve - he tells of how in the past he used to have to snatch up 300,000 workers to tend to the sugar cane harvest - NOW DUE TO MECHANIZED FARMING - he is able to do the same task, with higher yields but only use 7,000 workers. He failed to see the contradiction in his words between chapters.

(You all had better believe that I have NEW AMMO to use against your leftist/Anti-Capitalist rants. I went to YOUR MECCA!!!)

Anonymous said...

At the risk of piling on - unfortunately I have limited, if any, sympathy for the WV coal miners. These are the same people - WILLFULLY and DELIBERATELY IGNORANT HILLBILLIES AND REDNECKS - who regularly vote and advocate against their own interests and personal safety. These are the same in-bred, missing teeth, tobacco-chewing, hate-filled people who weep over the disappearance of their ante-bellum ameri-kkk-a. So, 25 and counting deaths is really too small a number to even make a dent in their collective insufferable ignorance. Good riddance.

maria said...

you know, that's just CRAP and i suggest you give it up!

there is no one who posts on this blog that either envies or evokes cuba as something we aspire to or have any praise for.

i challenge you to find ONE comment that every said anything of the sort!

Rottnkid said...

maria said...

you know, that's just CRAP and i suggest you give it up!

there is no one who posts on this blog that either envies or evokes cuba as something we aspire to or have any praise for.

i challenge you to find ONE comment that every said anything of the sort!

-------------

Viva la Cuba !

-------------

Just kidding.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote] who regularly vote and advocate against their own interests and personal safety.[/quote]

Anon- First Hand Experience Talking here.

About 3 years ago my family and I drove up to the graduation at Marshall University in Hunington WV.

You know how OFFENSIVE those "Bring Back The Past"/(Take Back Our Country) statements are now? Well the "Democratic Party Of Hunnington WV" had them all over town.

West Virginia is a "blue state". They have a strong labor union force. The only place that I saw more political bumper stickers is in California.

Why do you apply VOTING AGAINST THEIR BEST INTERESTS to them but NOT TO the people of Detroit, Philly, Baltimore and elsewhere who VOTE AS YOU WANT THEM TO but so many of their interests have been molested?

Do you think that union workers in Milwaukee ULTIMATELY "voted in their own interests" now that so many of them are unemployed?

Constructive Feedback said...

Maria:

In reading the book "Fidel Castro and Religion" and then closing my eyes and hearing so much LEFTIST thought - how can you or anyone else conclude that you have defended against the correlation merely by distancing yourself from Cuba?

In the book there is:

* Anti-Capitalism as a central thesis
* Liberation Theology
* People Over Profits
* A Minimum wage and a MAX wage
* Centralized Government as the REPLACEMENT for the market system

Maria - it is simply intellectually dishonest to attempt to deny the parallels.

Ask Filled Negro who he respects more between Ronald Reagan and Fidel Castro

uptownsteve said...

Ask CF who he respects more

Jesse Jackson or Jesse Helms.

Anonymous said...

Roderick said...
"I really can't feel too sorry for these folks because WV has voted for the anti-regulation Republican the last couple of presidential elections.

These people prefer to save the 'life' of a fetus than their own lives."

That's right - fuck white people. That's 25 less we have to kill.

maria said...

RK--that's for the LOL> and ck your email.

maria said...

CF said -- how can you or anyone else conclude that you have defended against the correlation merely by distancing yourself from Cuba?

defended against the corrolation...is that a double negative?

we have not MADE the connection or correlation. so i am not defending against a correlation i never made.

second, i'm not distancing OR embracing cuba. it is not nor ever has been a factor in democratic politics. no matter how you try to connect cuba, no one in america cites cuba as a model.

and again, no one here. you are being intellectually dishonest by asking me to explain a parallel that you alone constructed!

uptownsteve said...

"That's right - fuck white people. That's 25 less we have to kill."

Roderick didn't mention anything about "white people" a-hole.

His very cogent point was about people who aggressively and gleefully work against their own interests, even to the point of risking their own lives.

Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

"Roderick didn't mention anything about "white people" a-hole."

"Republicans" and "teabaggers" aren't code words used by racists for white people?

uptownsteve said...

Not code for white people.

Maybe code for knuckle draggin, first cousing screwin, Hee Haw watchin goobers who can't stand it that a black man is leader of the free world.

Glad to clarify that for you.

Anonymous said...

"Maybe code for knuckle draggin, first cousing screwin, Hee Haw watchin goobers who can't stand it that a black man is leader of the free world"

Thanks for proving my point, you ignorant racist.

Rottnkid said...

Anonymous said...

"Republicans" and "teabaggers" aren't code words used by racists for white people?

-------------------------------

That's all I see on TV.

maria said...

actually, republican and teabagger are words that i used for racists. w/o code.

Anonymous said...

maria said...
"actually, republican and teabagger are words that i used for racists. w/o code."

That's what I thought, the consensus among the people who post here is that the coal mine disaster is no big deal because the dead are racist republican teabaggers. We know this because they are white. They had it coming.

M. Rigmaiden said...

Damn y'all this had some of the most interesting and sensitive comments that I've seen. Yes FN I pray for the families too. That is very sad. With mining operations it seems like there are always problems; very dangerous work. And after a couple of hundred years, I guess the technology isn't there yet to make the need for using workers underground go away...or rather those companies are too cheap to implement said technology.

This is such a complex issue and certainly the companies who employ people in dangerous jobs really should have strong legal protections for their workers and worker families AND themselves to limit liability. Since you are an attorney I leave you to figure out how that could be done!

maria said...

Anonymous said...
maria said...
"actually, republican and teabagger are words that i used for racists. w/o code."

That's what I thought, the consensus among the people who post here is that the coal mine disaster is no big deal because the dead are racist republican teabaggers. We know this because they are white. They had it coming.

12:26 PM
BULLSHIT--i never said that at all and no one else did either.

i do not think the coal miners are t-baggers, racists OR republicans.

i think they are hard-working men and women who care about having a job and taking care of their families.

the owner of the mine is another story altogether!

Rottnkid said...

Anonymous said...

maria said...
"actually, republican and teabagger are words that i used for racists. w/o code."

That's what I thought, the consensus among the people who post here is that the coal mine disaster is no big deal because the dead are racist republican teabaggers. We know this because they are white. They had it coming.


-------------------------------

That's what YOU assume, and you know what that breaks down to. With that said, You asked if "Republicans" and "Teabaggers" are code words for white folks. I say yeah because that's ALL i see on TV and I'm sure you do to. Only 1 asshole stated they had it coming but that is NOT the general consensus of the people on this blog and you know it, so stop playing yourself.

Gregory said...

If anonymous actually read the post then s/he wouldn't leave such idiotic comments.

The person who considers the dead miners to be just so many disposable hillbillies is not Field or the commenters on this blog, but the owner of the mine. A rich white guy, who happens to donate loads of money to retrograde political movements like the teabaggers. He wants the gubbmint off his back and he presents himself as the victim of oppression in the guise of safety, environmental and labour regulations.

The rest of us sympathize with the dead miners, not the brain dead owner.

uptownsteve said...

Nobody mentioned anything about "white folks".

Maybe ass-non is the one trying to equate "racists" with "white people".

Unekwu said...

This is tragic...so sad

Trapped in SC said...

Greed + No Regulation + Lax Safety Precautions = 25 Dead Miners.

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve said...
Nobody mentioned anything about "white folks".

Right Stevie, everyone asociates black people with Hee-Haw.

Rottnkid said...

UTS

Tag your "it" today. Good luck..lol

mellaneous said...

CF said:

"Could it be that JOB PROTECTION had a stifling effect? Those who looked at their short term interests, resisted new processes that eliminated jobs yet they now look in the mirror and functionally blame the MANAGEMENT for agreeing with Labor in not introducing these new processes."

And CF said:

"Do you think that union workers in Milwaukee ULTIMATELY "voted in their own interests" now that so many of them are unemployed?"

CF why do you lie to make your points? You know as well as I do, that demands for better wages and fair treatment on the job were reasonable demands and have nothing or little to do with the companies ability to meet the demand.

And you know that the companies did not refuse to adequately compensate the workers because they didn't have it (the money) to give. They refuse because they are in business to make as much money as possible. And they do that by taking workers labor and giving them back as little as possible.

The factories left Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and other locales for the same reasons and that is to find: MARKETS WHERE THEY COULD PAY CONSIDERABLY LESS FOR LABOR!

Job protection is about making sure the company just can't fire a worker who actually is doing their job, but the bosses don't like.(people of color, women, gays,etc) It is really important to keep bosses from putting out the door outspoken union advocates and the like.

CF you are clearly an apologist for capitalism which makes you kind of callous, especially in the face of the evidence that the capitalist really don't care about anything or anyone except making profits.

And Jody was right about the development of the utilities and how they were transfered to private ownership.
I don't get it what do you get out of defending this evil?

And why are you on here with your anti-people rants today? Have you no sense of decency?

Did you not get the vibe of the thread today it was one of sympathy, sensitivity and empathy for our working class brothers who died needlessly.(this is rhetorical)

You know CF, it is amazing that whenever it is appropriate to show human solidarity you fail to do so on this blog at every opportunity.

Its really hard to listen to and take serious another human beings arguments who SEEMS NOT TO CARE ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS!

M. Rigmaiden said...

Yeah, I don't think you show the ability to empathize with anybody CF. At least you've not shown that here. The point of the post isn't to prop up the notion of a free market and say whose requests on the job were reasonable etc. More or less it is an emotional story for all the lives lost. That is sad any way you slice it.

uptownsteve said...

"Right Stevie, everyone asociates black people with Hee-Haw."

No Jethro..

They associate 'necks with Hee Haw.

What part of this are you struggling with?

mellaneous said...

CF said:

"Ask Filled Negro who he respects more between Ronald Reagan and Fidel Castro"

CF ask me tomorrow and we can get into this, but today capitalism is going to get the chastisement it deserves.

And you do realize how simple it makes you look to try to tell everyone that one visit to a Third World country that practices socialism the best it can in one country and the reading of one book will make you an expert on what folks are talking about when they talk about centralized economies and social policies implemented as if people count.

LOL Come on man. Surely you're joking!

Anonymous said...

"What part of this are you struggling with?"

I'm not struggling. You are the one with shit all over shoes trying to say you don't stink. It's clear you are comfortable being a bigot, just not with admitting it.

mellaneous said...

Steve come on brother let the anon alone to wallow in his pathetic attempts to change the focus of the thread today.

It's obvious that there is something wrong with him. Why else would he be trying to misconstrue words that ask reasonable questions and words that very clearly convey sympathy and compassion for these fallen fellow white workers and fellow human beings, by the primarily black respondents on this blog.

His pathology shows itself in his posts. Everyone paying attention can see it.

Lets move on!

mellaneous said...

Amen MRig amen.
M Rig said:

"The point of the post isn't to prop up the notion of a free market and say whose requests on the job were reasonable etc. More or less it is an emotional story for all the lives lost. That is sad any way you slice it."

You can say that again sister!

Anonymous said...

uptownsteve said...
"What part of this are you struggling with?"

I'm not struggling. You are the one with shit on his shoes trying say he don't stink. It's clear you are comfortable with being a bigot, just not admitting it.

alicia banks said...

fn:

nothing to add today

wow...

just stopped by to check on name calling and vitriol...i see a lot
a both ...as always

but i see not one sermon from mr/mother theresa or iab/shadow saint...as always


have a great weekend!

uptownsteve said...

Bye AB

And you keep on spreading love and understanding wherever you go!

Smooches xx

alicia banks said...

uts:

i would never accept a kiss from a plant like you...bet its laced with anthrax and colorist truth serum....u sucka!!!

i spread warrior fire and rebel wisdom wherever i go...

i will torch and teach ya later boy!

alicia banks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
M. Rigmaiden said...

"i spread warrior fire and rebel wisdom wherever i go..."AB

You think so huh? I bet if FN polled the posters here, they might disagree. I am sure many of them might say that you have a large NOISE to SIGNAL ratio and that you seem to be angry and mentally disturbed.

It's like someone who clearly used to be brilliant but they cracked up. Now they spend their time insulting people and refuse whatsoever to talk in a civilized fashion to those with whom they disagree.

Looks like you are but a mere shell of your former self. But you can change that if you alter your behavior. I'm still praying for you;)

M. Rigmaiden said...

And I define the noise as your insults and rudeness. The signal is your reasonable perspective on issues...always clouded by vitriol.

alicia banks said...

hey mr:

your rabid envy and selective blindness and belated sermons are all showing again...

scan up

LACoincidental said...

M. Rigmaiden said...

"i spread warrior fire and rebel wisdom wherever i go..."AB

You think so huh? I bet if FN polled the posters here, they might disagree. I am sure many of them might say that you have a large NOISE to SIGNAL ratio and that you seem to be angry and mentally disturbed.


Noise to Signal ratio? Someone was paying attention in EM Theory Class! LOL

Anyway, I'm going to leave AB alone today. The larger issue is there are folks like CF and the troll anons who believe that somehow the government was too tough on the mining industry and tougher regulations aren't needed.

If anything, the WV tragedy who why we need strong regulation -- without labor, safety and environmental oversight corporations will do the bare minimum (and even less, in the case of the coal industry, it appears) because it might nick (regulations rarely make a significant dent) in the bottom line.

I thought Upton Sinclair's 'The Jungle' proved that point over 100 years.

I guess CF, you don't remember mad cow or California rolling brownouts, either. And that's just in the states. You don't want to even think about the environmental and human rights abuses corporations perform in Latin America, China and India.

When corporations run things in a laisse-faire political economy, they screw over the community in the name of profit. In the 'free-market' paradise so worship, CEO's become multimillionaires while people die and the landscape is destroyed.


And typically, they screw the overall economy in the end. Show me how NO government regulation in industry ever produces better results.


And please believe I'm not talking about a soviet style economic takeover, any student of history knows hard line socialist policies can have their own problems. And I wouldn't be applying for a double masters in business and computer science either.

But the whole concept of 'let government get out of the way of business' is utter BS. Anyone who thinks otherwise ain't paying attention.

uptownsteve said...

feel the love

M. Rigmaiden said...

Envy of what exactly? I envy nobody. You are selective in your reading. If you were being honest, you'd see my sidebar and numerous other posts I've done on physics and mathematics related issues...even a stint researching ammonia channels at the supercomputer center at UIUC in 2006. There is no need to ascribe feelings to me that I've not expressed nor do not have.

I went to your blog yesterday and your writing is very passionate and good. You don't seem to toss out as much vitriol there. Thus it appears that your vitriolic attitude is a way to garner attention for yourself.

Whatever floats your boat. If you care about advancing the minds of American children- really all children, make a comment on my posts on the Mersenne calculators. Make a comment on my loop quantum gravity posts and correct me as I am open to it. C'mon I am waiting.

I don't demonize you because you disagree with my politics; never really have. People with differing ideologies can come together if they have similar goals. What you put forth is that you care about the education and human rights of others.

Engage me on those fronts rather than insult me for my infractions.

BTW, I think you'd get a kick out of this article I wrote a few months back. All other discussions I've had on this blog on that topic were merely thought experiments. Heh!

alicia banks said...

mr:

why no such shade or sermons until i post???

you IGNORED tons of vitriol and name calling ALL DAY LONG...scan up...why????

M. Rigmaiden said...

UTSteve you are funny! But in all honesty, I think actual practical solutions for many human rights issues can be discussed and brought up here. All of the minds with differing orientations can make this a very rich place indeed.

Oh I forgot to give you some links on the educational question you posed to me the other day.Here you go:



Connecticut


Journal of Blacks in Higher Education this report says our rates for college admission inched up but our college completion rates were down


New York

alicia banks said...

lac:

bet!

ignoring those very late imaginary pacifica links you referenced too i see...duly noted!

A Person of Interest said...

"uptownsteve said...
feel the love

3:28 PM"


Squishy.

M. Rigmaiden said...

Alicia I am waiting for you to make a comment on some mathematical pedagogy. Since you went to college at 12, I am sure you can come up with something to improve how I explain padicity and relate that to your fingers and toes. Or you can talk about how mussels are able to hold onto stuff in roaring waters. C'mon I am waiting for you to engage in discussions that are meaningful rather than infantile;)

alicia banks said...

mr:

i am flattered by the chronological completeness of your rabid envy

but i will not answer a single thing until you explain why you have ignored all the vitriol and name calling before i posted today???

promise!

M. Rigmaiden said...

LAC, what you say makes sense. Although I used to be a huge Cato Institute fan, so much of their reasoning is based on an ideal world where people behave honorably.

As you and many others have pointed out, the world does not work that way. Businesses feel no responsibility to the communities in which they are located whatsoever. All types of abuses take place. In particular the dumping of toxic waste into our water streams and so forth.

Greed is such a motivator for evil it is a damned shame. You got people that actually believe that companies do the right thing and will do the right thing without regulation. Those are just misguided souls. A little bit of history should help them out. But interestingly enough people tend to see what they want to see. So despite all the evidence in the world, they'll cling to incorrect positions.

Anonymous said...

MR:

Ignore that cretin -- it feeds of negativity and disharmony and has noting to add to the conversation but conspiracy theories and invective. It is neither worthy nor deserving of thoughtful responses.

alicia banks said...

assnon:

why were so many fellow cretins being fed before i posted here today?

and why was your own cretin assnon a ghost like mr as they did so????

alicia banks said...

fn:

i think assnon may have just accidentally stumbled upon why your hypnotic blog is so magical...

if "negativity" and "disharmony" are manna for "cretins"....then this blog brimming with evil hypocritical cretins is indeed nirvana/the best buffet on the net!!!

thanks bro!!!

M. Rigmaiden said...

"mr:

i am flattered by the chronological completeness of your rabid envy"
AB

Then you clearly have nothing to contribute. Gave you an olive branch, and you refused to take it. Your loss. It is VERY VERY VERY clear where you stand now. You have absolutely no desire to uplift anyone but elevate yourself to get 15 minutes. I am still praying for you;)
--------------------------------
LAC, do you get the THIS WEEK IN SCIENCE emails? They keep me abreast of what's happening currently. Otherwise it'd be easy to lose track! If not you can get them here. If so, hopefully others that are curious will check out the link.

-------------------------------

Anonymous, I wish you didn't refer to Ms. Banks as a cretin even though you feel that she is one. Her actions show me that she doesn't care about coming together with people to uplift, but I still hope and pray that she will change her tune in time.
And your vocabulary is expansive. I don't hear people call others cretins very often. Are you a writer or something?

Anyway, I've got to tend to my boy. All of you have a wonderful weekend:)

Anonymous said...

You don't intimidate me, you stupid person. And, it is my right to remain anonymous as long at this blog's creator allows anonymous comments.

This responses to the blog were interesting until you waddled in to ruin everything.

M. Rigmaiden said...

Oh, well Anonymous I hope you have a nice weekend too.

Anonymous said...

I apologize MR -- 3:57 was not directed at you. You have a nice weekend as well!

I apologize for getting negative with AB...her behavior irritates me so.

LACoincidental said...

MR -- thanks, we probably converge more than we disagree. I long ago abandoned purist socialism because there are too many examples of total failure(after meeting a few cats who lived in the former USSR) but I'm still avowedly liberal and believe in a strong safety net. Similar to the social democracy in the Netherlands.


Anyway, I was checking out your post on arsenic and its properties for treating leukemia. Brings back memories of my first job when I was trying to getting computational proteomics. Done any work on protein modeling? Weird stuff, but really useful in drug research. How a protein structure often dictates drug interactions.

alicia banks said...

mr:

late lying cowardly assnon posted after me today

your belated sermon deficit remains herein

"15..." is another blatant lie as all you post...yet more evidence of your shady insincerity

i repeat:

your olives are rancid and your branches are severely dry rotted...

fix both asap!!

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/profile

LACoincidental said...

M. Rigmaiden said...
LAC, do you get the THIS WEEK IN SCIENCE emails? They keep me abreast of what's happening currently. Otherwise it'd be easy to lose track! If not you can get them here. If so, hopefully others that are curious will check out the link.


Not really, mostly my mailbox is flooded with work related stuff -- primarily radiology regulations and networking stuff. But I'll definitely take a look.

uptownsteve said...

Be-cause love grows where my AB goes,

And nobody knows like me!

alicia banks said...

scared assnon:

generic cowards like u fear conspiracies because they are uneducated fools...

those who are educated and brave like me are conspiracy scholars...

truth is far stranger and more brutal than fiction...always

fyi


http://www.amazon.com/American-Conspiracies-Dirty-Government-Tells/dp/160239802X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270843949&sr=1-1


http://www.amazon.com/Proofs-Conspiracy-John-Robison-M/dp/B001NYTJS6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270843971&sr=1-3-spell&wwparam=1270843975


http://www.amazon.com/Behold-Pale-Horse-William-Cooper/dp/0929385225/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270843987&sr=1-1


http://www.amazon.com/Unseen-Hand-Ralph-Epperson/dp/0961413506/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270844005&sr=1-1


http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Illusion-Literacy-Triumph-Spectacle/dp/1568584377/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270844019&sr=1-1

alicia banks said...

uts:

niggers are niggers...
and niggers are scared of revolution

--the last poets

A Person of Interest said...

There's SOMETHING growing where AB goes....but I don't think it's love.

Maybe something related to fungi.

alicia banks said...

aperpetuallycontagiousfatpervoi:

wash your filthy funky toy doll...tmi!!!

Anonymous said...

True Steve. So true. My response has further exacerbated her victim mentality as 4:14 reflects. I will continue to scroll past her posts as soon as I see her picture.

alicia banks said...

assnon:

you have twisted my wisdom with your spinelessness...

you are as confused about proofs of conspiracies as your are about 4:14

you are as blind to reality as you are to your fellow cretins you boldly ignored all day

Cattle Car said...

Hey Alicia. Your ride is here!

alicia banks said...

cc:

i would never ride your mama...

i am happily wed and hopelessly monogamous.

pimp that big bitch elsewhere!
good luck with that!

Pig Slop said...

Hey Alicia. Dinner's ready, come & get it!

alicia banks said...

ps:

ho strolls slow today huh?
so
your mama told u the way to a heart is through the stomach right?

my wife is a gourmet chef...i stay satiated.

but you better not taste that pig slop...it would make fat swine like u a sloppy soupy cannibal!!!

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

Surely, we can stop going back and forth with a conversation that serves no purpose but to cause unnecessary friction and confusion, and go back to having a decent calm discussion like adults are supposed to do. We might not all agree with each other. But everyone on here has something of value to bring to the table and worthy of listening to without going at each other's throat and jugular vein as if we are in a barroom fight.

Some of our fellow Americans have lost their lives in something that could have been avoided. Isn't their lives and getting down to the root of what is causing this to continously happen more important, so that lives can be saved in the future. I don't know about y'all but whenever, a tragedy happens like this, I put myself in their shoes and I can feel their grief, because I know how I would feel if it was one of my own blood relatives or friends. These people need our support,compassion, and some good working solutions to this ongoing problem of unsafe mines and greed over people.

Anonymous said...

$90 Million in fees for safety violations. What does that tell you>

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

That's a lot of money, but it will never ever replace those people's lives and those that have lost theirs before them. However, I say he deserves to pay them. Not only that, he should be made to provide financial support to those who lost their husbands and fathers too.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure there will ever be a really "safe" mine, with all the methane & coal dust that is inherent to the mining process. All it takes is one little spark. I know I certainly wouldn't want the job.

LACoincidental said...

Drop in the bucket for the coal industry Anon. For killing 25 people and leaving countless others with lung cancer just to make a buck.

Anonymous said...

La idiot siad...

"Yes I have a feeling it's going to be scary. It's hot and miserable. Even december was hot as hell."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


UMMM... What does that have to do with hurricanes? LOL!!!

field negro said...

"Ask Filled Negro who he respects more between Ronald Reagan and Fidel Castro"

Is that a trick question? :)

GrannyStandingforTruth said...

"I'm not sure there will ever be a really "safe" mine, with all the methane & coal dust that is inherent to the mining process."

Yeah, that is a problem, but where there is a will there is a way. However, until that brillant mind comes along that is able to solve that part of the problem, we could at least deal with trying to solve the safety issues. Dealing with the safety issues might not solve every single problem, but it will at least make it somewhat safer for miners.

mellaneous said...

Thanks Granny for bringing this back to the point.

LAC- I see we agree more than we disagree. Your post earlier sounded like something I would say:) And like you I don't believe in idylic socialism but I do like the planned economy and the idea that the people and not the profiteers should control the means of production.

Capitalism has had its day its time to try something more "people friendly."

Anonymous said...

"UMMM... What does that have to do with hurricanes? LOL!!!"

You must have missed a lot of days of school.

mellaneous said...

Hey Field this seems to qualify for Field Negro of the day, or at least a good look.

LAC you added the abuse that these companies dish out internationally.
This fits:

UW-Madison ends Nike contract
Todd Finkelmeyer | Posted: Friday, April 9, 2010

"The University of Wisconsin-Madison is ending its apparel contract with Nike Inc., becoming the first school to cut ties with the world's leading supplier of athletic shoes and apparel due to alleged labor rights abuses at two factories overseas...
"Nike has not developed, and does not intend to develop, meaningful ways of addressing the plight of displaced workers and their families in Honduras," UW-Madison Chancellor Biddy Martin said in a statement...

The Worker Rights Consortium reported in October that two factories that produce collegiate apparel for Nike in Honduras -- Vision Tex and Hugger de Honduras -- were shuttered early in 2009 without paying legally mandated severance and back pay to some 1,800 workers. The amount owed is about $2.2 million."

"Two workers from Honduras who lost their jobs when those factories were shuttered took place in a conference call with UW-Madison's LLPC Friday and became very excited and emotional when told the university was ending its contract with Nike."

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/university/article_24269af4-43f2-11df-ad63-001cc4c03286.html

mellaneous said...

Field and others, was anybody aware of this action by Universities against Russell Athletic? Good for these colleges.

From the same article mentioned earlier.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/university/article_24269af4-43f2-11df-ad63-001cc4c03286.html

Previously, the university and student activists on campus played a key role in persuading Russell Athletic -- one of the nation's leading sportswear companies -- on Nov. 17 to rehire 1,200 workers in Honduras who had lost their jobs when Russell shuttered its factory shortly after workers unionized. In that instance, UW-Madison was one of nearly 100 colleges and universities which ended apparel deals with Russell -- forcing the company to change its ways if it wanted to get back into the profitable collegiate apparel-making business.

"The real difference here is that with the Russell contract, there were many, many other universities joining with us," said Collins. "And here, we are kind of out here on our own. But as you could hear, the workers were crying when they heard the news because they were so moved. So even though we are a small proportion of what Nike produces, I do think this will get Nike's attention. Even if no other schools join us, the publicity of Wisconsin doing this will matter."

field negro said...

Mell. I agree, that qualifies for HFNOTD status.

Anonymous said...

I have heard quite a bit about Virginia lately, and God Don't like UGLY! now, it seem's to be a up rise in certain part's of Virginia, and the up rise is against the President and the HEALTH CARE BILL! sometime's innocent people suffer for the WRONG DOING of other's! I wonder how many people in that part of Virginia were and still are against the Health CARE BILL!

I will put it this way, the owner of that mine is RACIST! and I wonder how many people in that State are TEA PARTY MEMBER'S! and I wonder how many people in that STATE, has been giving the President PURE HELL! you see people, this is a REAP what you SOWED thing!

I will put it like this, it is no more for these people, to have a SMALL sample of Suffering, than it is for the People in HAITI, to Suffer a MAJOR AFFLICTION!

Yes, I am a Christian, but, the owner of that mine, has been giving Million's of Dollar's to the REPUBLICAN PARTY! well, he has been EXPOSED for the TYPE of HUMAN BEING he is, and maybe, just maybe, oh, I don't know, maybe God will see fit to repay him by, Allowing ALL of his WORLDLY RESOURCE'S to DRY UP! after all, he is a WICKED MAN!!!!

ISEEISEE/ I use the word HELL, in the Biblical context!

Ms. Ann G. Myma said...

It took a long hard struggle and a lot of deaths- before the coal miner’s life was deemed worthy. I know, because I’m a granddaughter, daughter, and niece of West Virginia coal miners. I was probably four years old, but the image of my grandfather coming home from work- covered in soot- is permanently stuck in my conscientiousness. About two years later, he would be dead.

My father, who deserted his wife and kids, is also dead. We would find out many years later that he died of Black Lung. The Uncles, well, they are dead too.

Though the plight for unions, safety, salary, and benefits was finally achieved, the conflict never ended. Enter the conservative ideology. The undoing of the safety regulations is now at hand. It began with Ronald Raygun. In 1984, a mining accident occurred on his watch. Twenty seven were killed in a Utah Mine. Though MSHA (Mine Safety and Health Administration) recommended a revisiting of the ventilation standards, nothing was accomplished. However, the most damaging occurred under the Clinton and Bush administration. Clinton simply used delaying tactics for 7 years- to not do what Ronald Raygun- had not done. Now, through stolen elections, here comes Dubya. He would waste no time slashing and stumping safety regulations to bits.

Through a concerted effort, make no mistake about it, what Raygun, Clinton, and Bush did- was throw the lives of the working class under the bus - to protect the wealthy. Davitt McAteer, who was Clinton’s appointee of MSHA, orchestrated the delaying tactics. He is now in charge of the investigation of the West Virginia Mine. Dave Lauriski, Bush’s appointee, was the safety director of the Utah Mine that killed 27.

In summation, it's all so sad. You can rest assured that West Virginia is full of Teabaggers. Never mind that most of West Virginia is living off of benefits - produced by mines with unions- along with their Social Security checks. Also, I would wager my pathetic salary that they voted heavily against they're own interest. Now they don't own their own mines. The ugly practice of Mountaintop Removal is not only polluting the water, but it destroying their beautiful mountains and land.
--
There is a wonderful 1976 documentary about what happened to Kentucky coal miners when they attempted to strike. It's called Harlan County, USA. It’s shocking! You can find snippets of it on Youtube. It is also at the library.

Not_RJ said...

Is it a slight possibility that any of the miners who perished were good people who went into those mines to provide a living for their families, given the fact many didn't even know them.

To politicize this with verbiage that they probably were tea-baggers; hence, probably racists, they deserve to perish is plain stupid.

Again, just what if any of those men who perished were good regardless of political affliation? How would you feel after spewing your stupid drivel?

What about the kids who will grow up fatherless? Let me guess, screw them too, right?

People who are making assumptions about these people who have no track record of racism, or prejudice are just stupid.

This type of talk should be reserved for South Africa's white supremacist leader who was killed by two young black farmworkers, not for people you do not even know.

no_slappz said...

field,

Whether you can admit it or not, market-driven capitalism is a great thing. A great thing.

As for the mining industry -- the Fatality Rate has dropped over 90% since 1970.

With respect to the profits at Massey (stock symbol MEE), the company's revenue has hovered around $2.5 billion for the last three years and the net profits have been $100 million or less.

In other words, for every dollar of revenue, profits were four pennies or less. Compare that profit margin with Microsoft, which keeps about 25 cent of every dollar flowing in.

Obviously people working in the mines made some mistakes that proved fatal. The company was cited for a number of violations over the past year.

Inasmuch as the danger of exploding methane is well known, why did REGULATORS -- who issued the citations -- fail to follow-up and ensure the mine operators had corrected the problems for which the citations had been issued?

Here in NY City when a restaurant is issued citations by the Health Department, restaurants have to scrub themselves clean in a hurry or face a shutdown.

Thus, you rarely read about fatalities from eating in US restaurants.

On the other hand, it is known that going to the hospital is a good way to get yourself killed. Not by the problem that led you to seek hospital care. Rather, some errant infection picked up while in the facility. It is estimated that every year in the US the number of people who die from those sneaky infections is 80,000.

So you can attack the Massey Energy company and the government for the errors of Massey employees and errors of the regulators who oversee mine safety. But while ranting about safety in an industry that has shown remarkable gains in safety, you overlook the most dangerous place of all.

no_slappz said...

mellaneous pastes:

"The University of Wisconsin-Madison is ending its apparel contract with Nike Inc., becoming the first school to cut ties with the world's leading supplier of athletic shoes and apparel due to alleged labor rights abuses at two factories overseas...

Here's a case that probably boils down to Nike operating within the boundaries of some unpleasant labor laws in another country. But, irate Americans demand a different standard of behavior from the company.

At its core, this demand is a demand for Nike to rewrite the labor laws of the countries in which it operates factories. Yet over here in America, there is a crazed opposition to corporations collaborating with governments when it comes to writing the rules of the game.

I guess American corporations are Forces of Goodness when they squeeze foreign governments, but Forces of Evil when they perform the same trick here at home. Hmmm.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, everyone that benefits from the energy produced by the coal from that mine should be held responsible.

no_slappz said...

anonymous, you wrote:

everyone that benefits from the energy produced by the coal from that mine should be held responsible.

Okay. The beneficiaries include everyone who received a kilowatt of electricity made from burning this coal and anyone who bought metal smelted at mills fueled by the high-quality coal that comes from this West Virginia mine.

This coal is important to the economy and the jobs at the mine are important to the miners and their families.

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blksista said...

A brother died in the coal mine catastrophe, too. There's a link to his obituary.

La♥audiobooks said...

Anonymous said...
"La idiot siad...

"Yes I have a feeling it's going to be scary. It's hot and miserable. Even december was hot as hell."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

UMMM... What does that have to do with hurricanes? LOL!!!
"



People who pretends to be "scientists" should at least know the answer to that.

I am not Star Jones said...

I'm amazed how the West Virginia mine workers and their families haven't linked that the boot on their neck is wielded so heavily by someone who looks just like them.